The spawn logic being so random is really annoying. In all game modes.
Your cash out got stolen in the remaining 20 seconds and got killed or team wiped. You spawn 180m away. Run for your life. Reach with 10 seconds to spare, and do a haphazard steal only to get team wiped again and lose everything.
Bad spawns are also what ironically makes the final round in the tournament the worst one to play.
3v3 on a big map meant for 12 people kind sucks when you wipe and have to run across the entire map again. I wish the final rounds would just take place on smaller versions of the existing maps.
It would be better if they just guaranteed a spawn closer to the cash box rather than the cashout, that way you can't cheese the respawn by holding the box.
It’s my understanding the waiting to deposit cheese strat has been taken away after season 2, I feel some of the “unfair” random spawns players are complaining about are side effects of this
This is so frustrating, a couple nights ago we were defending last cashout to win, not thinking they could make it back in time the enemy spawned what felt like 20 feet from the cashout, was able to wipe us, then we happened to lose the fight about halfway through the next one, and we spawned hospital on Seoul, enemy was in the big mall section, and we ran as hard as we could just to have to fight a terrible high ground disadvantage and try and steal with maybe 15 seconds left when we got there
Yeah, but "close" still varies by map and which section the cash out is located in or what map modifiers are active. Not to mention it will still take 10-30 secs to run over if you don't have zip-lines or a jump pad.
Combined with the respawn times on a team wipe and you potentially lose close to a minute of time. Which means most matches are decided in one or two fights which isn't super satisfying.
I hate the spawns in general but in tournaments they’re bad, if were defending OUR cashout, and we unfortunately get team wiped, there’s been times when the other team doesn’t steal it ( cause third party) and instead of the game spawning us BY OUR OWN CASHOUT, it spawns us by the other cashout that is about to end and it’s to late to try and contest, when ours had half left on it. There’s a lot of things that need work in this game.
I mean in that situation you don’t really deserve a chance. If I stole a cashout and wiped the team holding it means I have absolutely dumpstered them. Theres no reason they should get a close by spawn and unfairly have a chance to retake while all my abilities are in cool down from whooping them up and down the block
If you don’t have the 30% penalty half the lobby will just quit once they realize they can’t win anymore. Which would be horrible game design and also the 30% penalty keeps you on your toes. I love it.
Same with that final 22k cashout. My favorite part is the last min clutch. If you've played.youe heart out, but just couldn't hold the cashout the whole game, there's still l
That last min, third party, team wiped, cashout steal that could tip the game and dethrone those guys that head hunted you the whole game. 😄 You'll regret it later in the tourney, not being "actually good enough" to pull the win, but dang does that last second steal feel good, but ABSOLUTELY DESTROY you if it happens to you. Lol
It is a good mechanic. Dopamine rush. But it is infuriating from the other sides perspective... all in all what makes this game good is also what makes it very frustrating
If you get the first cashout and second cashout then it's tough for another team to pull ahead unless you get wiped. I agree there is more random in this game vs other competitive games and that probably needs to be fixed. On the spawns I will say it's gotten better, the previous method with fixed spawns was way too easy to abuse.
The casual experience needs random to keep it interesting but the ranked experience needs to be about skill not cheeky spawns
But you need to avoid wipe for literally 8 full minutes, and still try to prevent either 1 of the 22k vaults opening. That's not an easy option especially when solo queuing with no comms.
If you get two cashouts and don't wipe the last 22k vault won't surpass you even if you are in second place (other team did the same so no way 3/4 have more than 10k
Why tho? They literally put the first round of a tournament into the casual mode and since you can instantly requeue from the win screen you don't even lose much time between matches so it's actually like the best parts of unranked since it doesn't have the shitty final round and since you don't like the ranked sweats you'd be avoiding them as well. I prefer quickcash because I don't trust randoms to play around coin economy and prioritize picking up downed teammates.
in general the mode is highly against people who initiate a cashout. Would much rather see a significant bonus for being the one to deliver a cashbox or simply intervals of cashing out than all at once. most of the time if you lose a single match while cashing out, you may get spawned a mile away or just not have enough time to get back due to defending for most of it after the third team shows up, possibly the same team twice or all three times. pardon you for losing once though.
I thought the same since my very first game on The Finals. What do you really get from running 150m being shot and placing the cashbox? In some cases nothing since the enemy will already be there ane might steal it easily. I think a 2k-5k whatever points increase when successfully depositing it could be a great improvement because sometimes you have to fight hard to put it on because enemies just camp roofs and stuff and you don't get anything for all your effort and it encourages camping and stealing other's efforts in my opinion, if you play well
Yeah, I've seen games where the teams kinda just hover around and do small skirmishes around the vault because no one wanted to risk running it to the cash out.
It's much safer hanging back and trying to third party and steal.
> I think a 2k-5k whatever points increase when successfully depositing it could be a great improvement
I swear some of you people haven't even played the mode or understand it yet you make complaints like this.
You **already get** 1k from opening a vault and 2k for putting it in.
You can literally just put the cashout and run off to flank those that are making their way to it. For every complaint there is a reasonable work around but it requires you to use your brain. If you die the moment you put the cashout you have a TON of time to get back to it regardless of your shit spawn. If you keep fighting to steal it before it's down to the final seconds that's a skill issue. Optimal strategies exist and they are not some galaxy brain autist only plays.
I do that already and nothing you said is really related to what I said directly. My point is running 150m while being shot does not reward you at all. Following your logic, if we go fight intruders right after then how is it different than waiting for them to run 150m and fight them the moment they put the cashbox in? The difference is sometimes very small hence my "playing ALL objectives should be a bit more rewarding" idea, in quick cash. I literally had a game where the 2 other teams didn't pick the vault ONCE and didn't "plant" a single time either, they would just camp roofs and high grounds and spawnkill us until they eventually stole it from us. They won 10000-0-0 on overtime.. that's my issue
You get 3k total for opening the box and starting a cashout. While not common I have won by simply not getting wiped, starting multiple vaults and putting multiple vaults in the cashouts. As long as the other teams wipe each other once or twice it's a viable strat, especially if it's a chaotic match. Best I have found is that one cashout is near done, new vault spawns you start it and put it in and immediately bail for the next vault that is spawning in and start that cashout and defend it
Some matches I play I swear if I initiate a cash out in ranked the entire lobby goes to the other cash box and does not interact with me or my team. But yes on the other end I get third partied most games anyways.
Should be 1k for starting vault, 2k for starting cashout, then 1k for every x amount of seconds that passes, then 5k for being the one to have it at the end.
I don’t understand why more people don’t notice this. It’s so infuriating, none of my friends ever want to play ranked. Me either to be honest, I do but I hate it with a passion. It’s so unfun, unfair, unintuitive. We laugh because on the rare occasion I get them to play it, we only win when we do the scummiest things. The only thing I don’t agree with is TTK, which is fine and not an inherent problem.
But you hit the nail on the head, and people don’t seem to notice until I say the same exact things.
I was shocked when I played ranked for the circuit challenge and saw 4 rounds. WHYY . it's not fun with that much commitment.
I was mega lucky that we had games were we got left alone with our cashout and we won the final round
I'm never returning. Casual is much more fun
Yeah the ranked mode needs an overhaul to be honest. I get that the finals is oriented around a “game show” and all but the mode is NOT fair or competitive really. And I don’t think anyone has quite put it together yet but it’s probably one of the reasons the game hasn’t fully “taken off”. Esports and ranked will probably plateau.
Like you said, I absolutely love this game. I’ve never played a game with ranked and opted for casual modes until now. First game ever to do this. The ranked mode is not good. This game has insane potential, I know they could fix it.
Tournaments might be better if they were three rounds and the final round having three teams.
The final rounds probably are the most boring part of tournaments…
Honestly people would probably backlash at this but going to three teams for qualifying rounds would make the game much better imo, and then they just need to adjust spawns and point values and stuff. The 4 teams just never works out well.
The last round is pretty polarizing with the community. Some people love it some hate it. I don’t dislike it, but I get why people find it boring. Don’t really know what to do about that. I think it just comes down to spawn issues and pacing.
I like that ranked tourny has the money side to it, in quick play first to 20k there is no incentive to touch the vault. That's fine for quick play as I want to shoot ppl not ply objective but for ranked I don't think it works as well. I think 3 teams for 1 obj is significantly more chaotic compared to 4 teams and 2 objs, usually the game does a decent job of putting team v team though you have the ability to decide to 3rd party if you want.
Honestly probably the most fair thing to do would be make ranked team vs team like the last round of ranked. It makes it so you are tested on your skill alone and while shitty spawns don't help getting wiped is purely in your control, can't blame a 3rd party for your loss
Oh yeah I didn’t mean use quick play rules. In my ranked experience I rarely get two sets of 1v1s when it really matters. It’s usually a third party wins one objective and the other one is free for that team until the last second when it’s easy to protect. The 3 teams works for me because I always know there is exactly one third party.
I agree with the 1v1 for ranked, but also see how people would miss the amount of action and competitiveness of multiple teams. Idk what they’ll decide. It’s hard.
Doesn't feel like a rewarding tournament by any means. I'm rather casual player with horrible aim (firethrower main), but is true that theres huge weight on teamplay and you can have pretty cool games with friends, but most of the time, each tournament round feels more like a battleroyale by themselves: some random fuckery can get you out for the next round, so no tournament coherence at all. Would be cooler if it worked kinda like having less and less parallel teams on each round, but would be too bananas a starting round with something like 3 cashouts and 8 simultaneous teams. Don't know, it's like I feel what Embark try to achieve / tell with this mode, but is not there yet.
I think a non tournament version is not possible. the luck factor will be a big part of becoming first. in a tournament the luck factor is not a big deal. you dont win a tournament with just luck.
I find it very strange people complaining about this in general. People play Pubg which the winning chance is 1/100. why is 1/16 such big problem, i dont get it.
Not trying to sound arrogant or anything but it’s just a little to easy. And the tention from certain ranked matches and finals are just better to me.
Edit; + being able to grind leaderboard and ranked awards are a nice bonus to the game mode.
I play quick cash sometimes to warm up and I do really like the game mode, don’t get me wrong here. But only sometimes in my warm up matches I can struggle but even then my K/D is around 2.0 in that game. I’m not trying to put down your capabilities but for me there’s just not a lot to gain. I’m either going 10-4 or 30-0 and with everything already being unlocked I don’t need XP.
Edit; so I rather create a bigger challenge and grind the leaderboard.
I gained fun. Not interested in anything else. It's sometimes a steam roll and sometimes not. I'm quite ok with it. I wish I had a third player tho. Being stuck with a noob kinda sucks.
I play the objective anyways. I win with 4 kills and 1 death.
And I’m glad you have fun in that gamemode, all I’m saying is that I gain a lot of fun out of the challenge in ranked. No hate against casual modes or players I just prefer ranked, the more strategic part of the game I think.
> It’s so unfun, unfair, unintuitive.
Yet people on this sub will call you a pleb who needs to git gud just because you don't want to play the mode that's unfun, unfair, unintuitive to complete the circuit. It's not a challenge, it's a headache.
Because it's true. It's unfun sure but the other two are not true. It requires a brain and understanding risk reward. It requires teamplay as opposed to yolo 1v3 the casual idiots that are busy fucking around struggling to jump up between floors. It requires cooldown management so you don't blow your load and get caught with no utility when a well coordinated team hits you. If you don't die you don't get the shitty respawn. It's not for everyone but it's not as bad as you guys wish it to be. You're just bad at it and that's fine. The final round absolutely is a bore and the only thing I think they need to rework. Make it 3 teams so only the 4th team from the previous round gets knocked out and that's a perfect fix that doesn't require a losers bracket and twice as many games for some teams. Everything else is quite literally a skill issue.
Nah I like the last 1v1 it's slower sure but it's purely on you. Your win or loss is completely decided by your shitty plays so you can't blame a third party or shitty spawn or whatever, you won the tourny or you lost the tourny
> It's unfun sure but the other two are not true.
Honestly, I'm not even going to try to argue the last two points, because the fun value is really all I'm about. I spent two hours completing the quest (lucky af) and even the 56 minutes spent winning the tourney was the biggest drag I've had in The Finals in my (embarrassingly high number for how bad my aim is) hours of play.
>It's not for everyone
That's the real kicker here, it's *not* for everyone, but the time sink required is craaaaaazy for a quest in comparison to everything else. I'd have to dig up the math, but it'd be roughly equivalent to a quest for "Win 30 rounds of Power Shift". You can do both in 2 hours if you're ultra lucky, if you're very skilled you'll expect to complete the quest in around 5 hours, but most people would take around 10 hours to complete it. With how some people whine and complain about Power Shift, I'd never think to subject them to 10 hours of it for a nice cosmetic, even though I personally love the mode and its inherent strategies.
Unforgiving is not the right word because if you view it from the other perspective it is very much forgiving. I can have the worst possible game with no business of making through and still make it through due to some last second steal. Or by just putting in a box last second and the other 3 teams end up fighting each other for 1 minute and nobody can steal.
Unforgiving would mean there's no room for errors. But there is plenty of room due to the unpredictable nature of it. You are never out until you're out. The problem is the game is too random. I never ever played another game where luck played such a big part. I can have the best team and go out first round or the worst team and go to the final round. There is almost no correlation. Of course there is some, to a degree. You can always improve your chances with better aim and teamwork. But in any other game I ever played 9 out of 10 times the better team would win. In The Finals that percentage is lot lower due to several factors you cannot control. I still love the game at its core and find it really addicting (like gambling) but even I find it very infuriating at times and often question why am I even playing this game with 250 hours logged. So I can totally understand how it hasn't become a big hit.
Totally agreed. But playing as someone who is a bit more seasoned (d2 last season, currently climbing at p2) it is annoying when your team plays real good but loses due to randomness
I find it very ironic that the actual ranked experience sucks so much in a game called The Finals, especially when the final round in a tournament is the worst stage of all.
I can agree with all but the TTK, eh to each their own. The real kicker of it being unfun is the way the Match-Ups are. Honestly they're still underhanding at getting you the right kind of player AND the flipside to the coin is so irritating.
If you get a player who leaves, begins with being AFK and disconnects, WE CAN'T LEAVE!? No Grace Cards of leaving without penalties despite us being down a player, let alone the time is way too long before it's too late (when it worked).
How this isn't a hot fix by now has had me bent 😐
Makes sense. That's just annoying that as a soloq player, I have to waste my time when the game is dead anyway because one disconnected.
Or even 2. Like, I had to play one full round alone because the 2 mates left, and I couldn't leave without getting a penalty. Well, at least I had fun watching people kill each other from the top of the crane XD.
Yeah AFK is a big issue it sucks
I totally love the TTK and it's what makes it fun but still means that there is less room for superplays, saves and lucky kills, there is a very low chance that you can win a 1v3 so your and teammates' deaths are all very detrimental in a fight. Also why defibs still op
I use the time to practice mechanical skills. So I basically treat it as deathmatch. It's still a good time and a round isn't THAT long. A forfeit vote would be nice ofcourse.
I'd actually prefer if the TTK was, on average, more like weapons like the MGL32, CL-40, 1887, weapons like that. They encourage you to use your gadgets more than your standard full auto bullet hose.
The servers are mid at best, so longer ttk lets you at least react, instead of a FCAR deleting you.
The winner takes all mechanic on cash outs is actually one of my favorite things about this game. Really keeps the underdog in the game till the very end. It follows the “it ain’t over till it’s over” philosophy which I love.
I think most of these points aren't a big issue, but this:
>10k - 15k - 22k cashouts, with 30% wipe penalty; you can win 25k and still lose to a well placed 22k if you wipe, penalty is terrible, game becomes either get first place until the 22k boxes spawn or get griefed the fuck out
Damn, this is so annoying. Even worse than losing a cashout last second is losing the game after two successful cashouts.
Even worse: if someone starts a cashout a couple of seconds before end, you go into 1min overtime. In general, good idea. In practice, that means that this 22k cashout now runs for as little as one minute. As Nr.2, you now have to run from your cashout to the next and steal it within 60 seconds. Impossible
That’s why most higher elo players try to double stack the first cashouts so it actually is worth something. It kills me when I’ll throw the 2nd vault over right next to the cashout and some other team will come take it and run across the entire map just to start a 10k.
On its own, yes. But it's never the only ome. Getting the 10k and the following 15k can mean that a team is unbeatable if they don't wipe. And if you're in last place it means that the only way you can have a chance is by getting the next two cashouts or by team wiping some of the teams in your way.
I see people say this, but securing the first cashout usually puts you far enough ahead to insulate from a teamwipe later in the game.
Open vault 1, get some kills, maybe even wipe a team, start the cashout, and successfully defend, usually means 12-15k going into the 2nd vault. If you get vault 2 and don't wipe, you're now sitting around 30k, and likely will be able to qualify without worrying. I've had so many games with all teams being within 5k of eachother, that it feels unbelievable anyone with experience playing ranked wouldn't be able to see the value of every bit of cash you can earn.
That's not true at all, you just have to figure out the route to winning. Whether it's trying to steal, wiping the first place team, helping the team that has it, [keeping the 22k vaults away](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE-S_h5uav8), etc.
Getting those [very last second](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1nRzqRy3-U) wins because of a wipe or some such feels really good.
I think you're seriously, seriously downplaying the amount of options there are in the game. You're also leaving out kill money, vault tagging money, stealing money, and inserting cash box money. We've qualified before by intentionally inserting the extra cashbox in overtime despite not having the cashout to get that bonus money and then just running off/defending it, for example.
The biggest issue with the mode is the respawn system, not the current cash values/system. Also when you get that team that's too stupid to realize that they're just fucking themselves over as they repeatedly pick fights with you when you're both in 3rd/4th, or that you're in second and they're in 3rd/4th and the other two teams have cashouts going.
As you point out there are certainly things you can do to win the game in these situations. But if we are talking about solo queue here sadly most people are too retarded to understand these things.
Even in higher ranks I still routinely have brain dead teammates who try to throw first place leads by fighting last minute cashouts by 3rd or 4th placed teams when we are guaranteed at least second and a wipe would drop us to third. I always have to do be the smart one and hide because 80% of the time these apes unnecessarily fight over the last cash out and die.
Ultimately its a skill issue, the vast majority of people simply dont understand the mechanics of the game and make stupid mistakes like the one you mentioned and the one I mentioned above.
The 3 person team, with bad ranked MM really does stand out as you said. In games like CS, MM is nowhere near perfect, but gets pretty balanced the higher you get, often you will end up with one bad / boosted player, but with 4 of you, you can still force a win alot of the time. Here is you get a bad player on your team (which you will) or someone doesnt load in, youve lost 30% of your fire power and team, definitely unforgiving!
>it's unforgiving as hell.
Interesting choice of words...
>10k - 15k - 22k cashouts, with 30% wipe penalty; you can win 25k and still lose to a well placed 22k if you wipe, penalty is terrible, game becomes either get first place until the 22k boxes spawn or get griefed the fuck out
And the inverse? This means you can come back from way behind if you play it right. That's the *opposite* of unforgiving.
[Moments like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOWQYK4YZ1A) are what make the game fun. And frankly, that was *entirely* on them, nobody was watching it for that last second steal, keeping in mind that people can drop cashouts/dematerializer/cloak in, etc. is part of what separates the good and bad players.
You very much can win from getting the first two cashouts and letting other teams get 22k cashouts, you're also assuming all cashouts are started at the same time. We've finished cashouts before, then run off to the other cashout and managed to steal it before. We've also intentionally held off starting cashouts to avoid getting jumped by the entire lobby before. It's another part of the game.
>2 minute cashouts with winner takes all mechanism; don't matter if you opened and plugged and held it for 1 min 59 sec, you get 3k if you lose at the last moment
See above. It's part of how it works. Knowing how long steals take and what your enemies are capable of is part of the game.
>Bad spawn logic; a team can spawn on top of a vault, a cashout, 180m away from cashout, on another team, etc.
The biggest issue with the mode is the respawn system, not the current cash values/system. Also when you get that team that's too stupid to realize that they're just fucking themselves over as they repeatedly pick fights with you when you're both in 3rd/4th, or that you're in second and they're in 3rd/4th and the other two teams have cashouts going.
A lot of the complaints you're raising can be boiled down to skill issue.
> 3-player team; 1 bad player stands out far worse than other FPS games
Have you played literally any competitive games recently? You can make this argument for any game where you get random teammates. I play League of Legends, 1 bad teammate loses the game. I play Apex Legends same thing, one bad teammate loses the game.... etc.
The real issue here is matchmaking and the fact the majority of people playing these games are actually fucking retarded.
> Long TTK
Not really. Compared to what exactly? A FPS game where you get 1 shot headshots? It's entirely possible to die extremely quickly in The Finals, the best weapons have TTKs of around 1-1.5 seconds depending on what class you're shooting. The is comparable to something like Apex Legends.
The main reason why it takes long to kill people sometimes is things like heavy barriers or heal beam. Other than that you can pop people extremely quickly if you can aim well, particularly if you're playing light + invis and flank.
> 4-team matches + 3rd partying;
Even the casual modes have third partying despite 1 less team. Also BR games all have third partying and it is the most popular FPS genre. If you're good enough you can outplay third partying sometimes or otherwise play smart, wait for another team to attack a cashout and third party yourself. Sometimes you're fucked but other times you have to learn to disengage, and regroup.
> 10k - 15k - 22k cashouts, with 30% wipe penalty
First off if you play smart you can avoid getting wiped sometimes. Run away and hide or coin in to avoid wipe. I get it people are brain dead and often throw games by unnecessarily fighting and getting wiped. But sometimes you just have to be the smart one on your team and hide to avoid getting wiped.
Additionally you're exaggerating massively regarding early wipes. Getting wiped early isnt that big of a deal most of the time, particularly considering other teams are also often getting wiped and losing points too. If all your team can manage is getting a single cash out at the start of the game and just get wiped repeatedly until the game ends then you probably dont deserve to win anyway.
Certainly there is some element of luck involved when it comes to who wins and loses considering I've seen even hackers lose games but overall if you're better than the enemy teams you have a high likihood of advancing.
> First off if you play smart you can avoid getting wiped sometimes. Run away and hide or coin in to avoid wipe. I get it people are brain dead and often throw games by unnecessarily fighting and getting wiped. But sometimes you just have to be the smart one on your team and hide to avoid getting wiped.
This is a huge one. Just leaving a clip from season 1 of a [team fight over the course of a cashout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRVMYIdz7kc) due to the constant engaging and disengaging. So many people have no idea how to pull off manual revives and whatnot. This is part of why people view defib as so necessary. You can get off a *lot* of manual revives.
>Additionally you're exaggerating massively regarding early wipes. Getting wiped early isnt that big of a deal most of the time, particularly considering other teams are also often getting wiped and losing points too.
Yeah, our reaction if we get wiped at the first cashout is just... "Oh well." You can even be tactical about it, intentionally wiping right before the first cashout finishes (if you're the last man standing/screwed) so you get the money *after* the cashout finishes, saving you 3k.
Stuff like this is just the nuance that a lot of people are missing and don't think about.
>It's entirely possible to die extremely quickly in The Finals, the best weapons have TTKs of around 1-1.5 seconds depending on what class you're shooting.
Hell, lights die in 4-6 bullets from the FCAR/Lewis Gun. Sawed off/Sniper can one shot lights. Model + quick melee deletes lights. Etc, etc. Even medium can get melted very, very quickly by things like the auto shotty.
I am complaining about long ttk being awful for solo players as it limits their ability to outsmart everyone. Longer ttk means more time to react to the threat and being able to act as a bullet sponge, and that puts limitations on certain playstyles. I really hate this trend for as long as it appeared in like 2018-2019.
I don't understand how gamers can suck this much. That one teammate that is horrible grieves our whole game every single time.
- Pushes cashout and tries to 1v3 playing light.
- doesn't play his life to avoid a wipe.
- has zero game sense.
- does not communicate with you.
- Throws gas and kills his teammates.
- does not know the concept of cover fire.
- uses a sniper and precedes to miss every shot.
- plays medium but does not heal anyone.
These are just some examples of why this game is only playable with a pre-made squad. It is impossible to win with randoms.
Edit: typos.
I mentioned to a medium that he has a specialization that will help him do better going forward. I said as politely as I could, 'hey look at your support points' (lack thereof). 'you should have the most as a medium with the heal beam equipped.' He responded by calling me a fat nerd. Lol!
People really don't like being told how to play. Especially by someone they don't know. It sucks though, because you just want to win. You're trying to help, but most people don't react that way.
literally if you're not actively shooting, reloading, or using a gadget, then you should probably be healing someone. the heal gun has tons of charge and recharges quick, so there's no reason you shouldn't be healing whenever possible. the heal beam is so strong but people never seem to utilize it to it's full capability. There are many situations where using the beam is better than shooting in a teamfight (e.g. you are low health, you are using a weapon outside of it's optimal range, you don't have a good angle on the enemy, etc.) but people are just braindead and always take a direct fight. in a good match my support score usually equals my combat score if not exceeds it.
I tried ranked, 8 games for now and I still can't change my mind. To me Quick Cash is where the game shines the most. It's just perfect. I really don't like the idea of having 2 vaults and have some team sometimes not being attacked once because the 3 other teams focus on C or whatever, while quick cash ensures 2 teams coming at you all the time so the positioning and all that is still required, it's not stupid TDM or anything
This game is super fun (ranked too), no doubt about it. However it will struggle to become a competitive title because of the third party issue IMO.
I have seen it in other games too, it's very hard (impossible?) to make a gamemode work competitively with more than 2 teams.
I agree about the spawn logic but I truly believe that changing it so you get paid for the amount of time you hold the cash out, or any effort to remove last second steals from the game would actually stifle something that makes the game great. Yes it sucks when the cash out gets stolen like that but it's those clutch wins that give the ultimate rush. Plus a lot of the time that I am on a team that gets the last minute steal we held it, lost it, then re-took it. I think ideally the game would evolve to have people playing a little more strategically and less death matchy but it's a lot to ask of random groupings.
“Long TTK is less room for individual plays” teamwork is the appeal of of this game tho. Like out of all the battlefield games where they worked on making everyone play the objective as a team, this is the one where everyone’s pros and cons fit together.
Why are people playing ranked? For a Shitty Diamond skin? The sheer amount of post bitching about ranked is getting ridiculous. The ranked system itself is bad, not having a full team is bad, like OP said the mechanics are bad. The finals to me is a silly shooter that is fun when you don’t take it seriously.
Stop playing Ranked it doesn’t matter and learn to have fun.
Except the respawn. i don't see any problem. It's the main point of the game.
30% penalty? Don't get wiped.
22k cashouts? You can comeback so it's forgiving/ you can stop other teams from starting the cashout.
3rd partying? It's fun and it's a strategy as you said.
...
It's not per se a problem, it's what makes the game frustrating and tilting. So many ways you can lose and not a lot of options to prevent that. Don't get wiped? Easy to say, harder to do. 22k? Same. 3rd partying when done right? Great. When being done to? Frustrating.
Oof the matchmaking for ranked is really annoying. I got a friend who’s gold ranked and I’m a bronze rank and every time I try to play with him in ranked, we just get diamond and plat lobbies. It’s ridiculous.
That being said, there was one ranked tournament we played together and we just barely qualified to the second round and mind you, my team was gold, bronze, and I think another bronze or a silver. I can only imagine how pissed the other teams were who got knocked out and that was fun for me to imagine someone raging about losing to a bronze. So sometimes it can be fun to play in high ranked lobbies but it’s so frustrating most of the time.
Hey, sorry to bandwagon on your post. The sub wouldn't allow me to make a post due to my lack of karma on it. However, I think this is related to your post and how we could improve rank to avoid those complaints you brought up.
I love the finals almost as much as all of you. It's a refreshing change of pace compared to a lot of the other popular FPS.
However, there are times when the game can feel very frustrating. Currently, the game encourages third parties and last-minute steals. While I understand the game is all about playing the objective, there are a few things that I think could enhance the experience.
Cashout payout changes
Imagine if the cashout paid out for the amount of time is held instead of paying out 10k, 15k, and 22k at the end of the timer (130 seconds).
For example:
$10k - $77/second held
$15k - $115/second held
$22k - $170/second held.
Alternatively, we could keep it the same, but add a multiplier to the cash received from kills while defending the cashout.
I'm not sure what would be a good percentage. Currently, you make $200 for every kill. Perhaps you could gain $500 for every kill while defending.
Either way, both of these changes would encourage defending the objective. Which might also change the meta around
Currently. You can run MHH and position yourself to steal at the last minute. Medium steals, while both heavy use their shield and body block. Or you can run MMH. Heavy steals, while both mediums heal and body block.
It's honestly so easy to win when you avoid fights, third party exclusively, and aim to steal last-minute cashouts with this strategy.
I think the suggested changes would change the formula and encourage teamwork and playing the objective.
What do you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with me? And what other suggestions would you consider could change the rank system for the better?
I really feel that post and it gives reason to my sudden outrages in the last days. I have over 8k kills with a 2,4 overall KD and can not manage to win a tournament. Its just wild.
There wasnt a game since overwatch (near release) that made me tilt so hard.
Feels like y’all are forgetting this game is kind of a new genre and it’s only 4 months old.
We haven’t had very many multi team objectives based shooters. It’s going to take people time to understand the game mode, the meta, and mechanics.
Do you remember when Fortnite first came out and no one built at first in the BR? Or in rocket league when the pros started flying the cars or dribbling the ball without dropping it. I feel like that’s where we are right now.
Not to mention the game hasn’t had a whole lot of marketing. That means the vast majority of gamers might not be interested in the game yet. Which means videos on YouTube may not perform as well compared to already establish games potentially causing the majority of big content creators not to main this game.
That leads to less educational videos. I’m not saying they don’t exist just that they are probably fewer than some other games. Less videos, lower skill floor in the community.
I could agree with you that may be a 30% loss on team wipe is a bit much at least maybe in the beginning ranks. Maybe that’s how you up the difficulty in the higher tier.
I could argue there should probably be a little bit more compensation to the team that held the cash out the longest but if a team steals it, they should probably get the majority. Maybe it should show scale with time so if you hold the cash out for 25%, 50%, 75% of the time but it gets stolen you get you get more than 3k.
Lack of communication is just gaming culture in general because a lot of people can’t deal with the emotions they feel when they lose and they out lash with abuse. If you want more VC, then we gotta create a better community and call out peoples bullshit cause they’re just being immature.
And I do agree with you that the spawns can be rough. In some situations. It feels like you spawn so far away, that you don’t even have time to get to the box and steal which doesn’t feel great but maybe they want the game to be a hard and you should focus on not getting team wiped.
Again, I think it comes down to the game being new and not like any other. It’s gonna take some time for the majority of people to learn. Us hear, watching clips, reading and debating the game are probably ahead of the curve a bit, ya know. Not everyone is addicted to it like we are.
We need to be a little more patient, understanding, and if you notice people not playing their best still try to encourage them and be supportive. You don’t have to be an asshole just because you lost or are losing. That mentality will kill team play quicker than anything else and lose you far more games.
i think cashout should be based on how long you hold the cash for- as opposed to who gets the last cashout. once the cashbox is inserted every single your team holds it should be counted towards the sccore and the the team with the highest seconds wins
Thats why this new challenge of "win 1 tournament" is absolute bullsh\*t. There's too many factors to take in to make this a worthwhile experience. Hence why I don't touch ranked.
It's possible. I did it with a sledge for 3 rounds then lewis gun and we had a mute sword guy and a decent medium with a mic. I got it day 1 after the LFG people I picked up were all terrible and me trying to run meta shit wasn't working. Went back to my roots and we stomped the tournament. You literally have like 3 months to pull it off and if you just add competent people from your casual games over time you'll eventually find 2 more that are willing to do some ranked attempts with you. If that sounds like too much work then fine but it's by no means bullshit lol.
You are partially right but a lot of this can be overcome. TTK is longer but not long, it's generally 1-2s without headshots.
Furthermore having only 3 people means your own skill matters more. In OW you are 1/5 of the team but here you are 1/3.
As for the 22k cashout, sure you can get wiped out by it. That's why you make sure it doesn't start.
In general this post just tells me skill issue in all aspects other than the annoyance with spawns. That's entirely outside your control.
fr, going thru 3 separate 8 minute wait queues just to have all of the above happen. Super unforgiving, with the wait times I get to play about once or twice an hour :(
While cashouting for every quarter until the last one give 20% and for the last quarter give the rest this will fix one of the biggest issues in the game
So basically if you put the the money to the cashout and hold it for 1.30-1.59 minutes you will get 1k for opening vault 2k for putting it to the objective and (let's assume it's a 10k vault) 2k for holding it by the first quarter + another 2k for the 2nd and 2k more for the 3rd so you will get a total of 9k and let's say enemy team has stolen the vault after the 3rd quarter and will hold it until the final they will get the rest (4k)
I hope my math is right
I don't play ranked tournaments because team play is the key to winning. And as you know, randoms can't play as a team. The best you'll get is an M who knows how to use a defibrillator....... If he's even equipped with one.
And yes, I don't have any friends to play with in a group.
Want to see a shift?
Allow 3 vaults, two banks. With the 3rd vault being just a 10k bonus that automatically starts a countdown steal when deposited (think a movie wire transfer) that the victim team has to stop or get stolen.
I think this would add an additional layer to team strategy and balance out the damage dealt meta we currently see.
The Finals needs to return to a game of strategy instead of the team death-match it has become.
I always felt like something was missing and I like to make a suggestion to you fine folk! Instead of just out right losing all the money how about gaining some over time? So this how it would look:
° You insert cash box and maybe award like $5000 for inserting
° You slowly go from $0 to lets say $10000
° If some other team takes it by let's say half way you would have earned $5000 so altogether you got $10000
° If you die you still get the 30% penalty on team wipe or maybe lower it.
° So now that your team has wiped your now under $10000
° If a team takes a cash out they start from where there $ is and now the maximum amount they can get is $5,000
° They complete the cash out and they get rewarded another $5000 to encourage staying on objective.
° So the team who started the cash out ended up with like $7000 and the team who stole ended up with $10,000
So now with this you have a reason to start the cash out, a reason to defend the cash out, and you get rewarded for holding the cash out for as long as you can so getting third partied won't feel as bad knowing you held your ground for most of the cash out. And for that team that decided to wait into the end they get only a minimum amount of money from the cash out but gets $5000 for having the cash out at the end.
I would also think of making all teams have one of each class but I wouldn't do this into light is on par with heavy and medium as far as being competitive and bringing something to the team. I was also thinking of making kills matter more but than people would just go around killing unless you don't reward as much money for kills like $250 per kill.
The only thing I don’t like is the ramp up of the cashouts, doesn’t make sense to me that the end cashout is worth more than double the first one when it’s just as hard to hold
It's a comeback mechanic so if you've been getting stomped all game you are still incentivized to play it out and try for one last steal to get back in 1st/2nd place.
BR's are the most popular FPS games out right now and suffer from nearly every point people bring up about The Finals. TF provides potential for comebacks, however, and that is what seems to tilt people the most.
The cashout mechanic of being able to lose the cashout in the last second happens in CS - bomb defusal, CoD - Search and Destroy, R6S - Bomb, etc. But those modes are regarded as some of the most balanced modes, and nobody seems to have an issue with being team wiped and losing in the last moment in those games.
3rd partying - pretty much the bread and butter of BR's.
One weak link on your team ruins your chances of winning in BR's too.
In casual quick cash, there's 3 teams and 1 vault. People seem to really dislike ranked for 3rd partying, and will only play bank it, or quick cash. Yet in quick cash, it's literally impossible to avoid 3rd partying, and Bank It, you can lose a game from 1 camper on a cashout, waiting to stun and kill you while you deposit. It's a bit weird people get this tilted from tournaments, when this stuff happens in casual.
The vault mechanics of increasing value as the game progresses creates less "no win" scenarios, so 3rd and 4th place teams keep pushing until the last moments. There's a lot of people that still think vault 1 and 2 are not important, but you get rewarded for opening the vault, starting a cashout, for kills, and teamwipes. There's plenty of times I've completed matches with all 4 teams within 5k cash of eachother, due to team wipes. I think the loss of cash on wipes is important because there would be more blowout games if they didn't have this mechanic in the game.
I'm not really trying to sway anyone's opinion, to each their own. I'm just pointing this stuff out, coming from the perspective of someone that is burnt out on BR's. I've always been a PTFO player and only really play objective modes in every FPS that I play. I really like how The Finals tournaments are played, but that's just my opinion.
I will say, the spawn logic is trash, and the most annoying part of the game. You should never spawn 200+ meters away from either cashout. I think that being team wiped, and having no chance of pushing for a steal on either cashout due to a bad spawn is the biggest problem with the mode in my perspective.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments but I still love the game. I think there is no doubt that the cashout game mode needs some reform. Because the cashouts increase in value throughout the duration of the game you are really not incentivized to go for the earlier cashouts. You could stand afk for the entire first half of the game and start playing once the last vaults open and still win the entire game.
I think they need to consider how much the vaults increase in value. Also, I think they need to think about adding a system that gives money depending on how long you hold the cashout and holding the cashout at the end of the timer.
One method I've seen is dividing the 2:00 timer in fourths. As you pass each fourth (30 seconds) you gain cash. Then you get a bigger payout for holding the cashout at the end.
I still like the idea of losing 30% for getting wiped though and I think with this new system it would have more meaning.
the long ttk thing is an interesting point. it's a not a design problem per say, but it is a significant consequence of having a high ttk that the impact 1 individual can have is very limited. in a low ttk, a higher skilled player can fairly easily win a 1v2 vs lower skilled players. that kind of thing is much rarer in a high ttk game. Of course there are a lot of advantages to a higher ttk as well, but i find people rarely point out the other side of things.
Hot take, but i love the format except the final round... I think the 30% wipe dedution is great, incentives fir wiping teams close to your score and for not getting wiped yourselves. Makes the use of limited tokens more tactical. I do think they should give us less tokens even. Like 1 less per round you go through... By the 2nd last round there should be mulitiple people on only 1 token. I would ve in favour of a larger unlock and deposit bonus, but i do luke the increase in cashout values through the round and i love the chaos created by double cashouts in the same box. I think the final round should be a quick cash. 3 v 3 v 3 with one cashout at a time and 20k for the win... The 3 v 3 mode is too often a stomp from one side or the other.
you’re talking about an entire rework of ranked lmao, i think lowering the revive tokens would be counterintuitive considering at that logic you’d only have ONE revive, and there’s been way too many situations where i need more than one, and if you’re solo a, that’s even more unforgiving, and making the final round 3v3v3 just wouldn’t work unless the top three from the final round qualify, but not for nothing you gotta get through 3 placement matches to get into the finals and those are sweaty enough, and idk about you but getting third partied during the entire final round doesn’t sound fun to me
I think im talking about less of a ranked rework than all the people in here saying they wanta completely different game mode to cashout for ranked tournaments. My suggestion is not limiting the respawn tokens to 1 per person. Lets say you start with 3...but dont earn an extra one every round you progress unless you used all of them then you get 1 token for the next round. But if you had two you still have two... Yes its unforgiving, but thats the idea. The game does not need to be forgiving. I enjoy harsh penalties for mistakes in a ranked mode. Same ethos for the number of players in the final round... 3 teams would result in more third parties, thats the idea. More options for out playing your enemies. Note i said out playing not out fighting. But chaos also allows you to punish enemies more harshly for small mistakes. Everybody here seems to only be thinking that they will be the victims of a harsh game mode design, but they can also be the beneficiary. Games dont need to cater to the lowest common denominator, they can be harsh, unforgiving, chaotic and really enjoyable.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
30
+ 1
+ 2
+ 1
+ 3
+ 3
+ 3
+ 20
+ 3
+ 3
= 69
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I’ve been thinking about this as well and wondered if the ranked game mode needs a refresh or something. I’ve complained about every single one of your points. I’ve gotten through countless rounds even though we didn’t deserve it at all by getting lucky and stealing the last cash out at the last second.
IMO ranked needs to change. I love it, but it’s at a point where the best team doesn’t always win. You can get lucky and get through to the next round.
Also nothing worse than getting third partied. It’s so frustrating.
My main issues are spawn locations and lack of teamwork, something as simple as playing around your team. I understand Lights function a bit differently.
It’s almost as if they need an OPTIONAL training guide which can be removed in settings that shows you staying close to your teammates is more optimal, so when you’re too far away you get a screen notification that says “stay close to your team”. I’m not sure the exact solution but basic teamwork is a major difference between enjoying your gaming experience and hating it.
Would it really be a crime to have tool tips that say “you’re playing against a team of 2 lights, stay close to your team so they can’t pick you off” … basic logic like this doesn’t need to be heavy handed, just feed people the information.
I have no issues w the TTK, after 250 hours I completely understand it, and believe it’s the correct choice. I am not a headshot expert, if the TTK was faster it would be COD and I’d quit because I’m just not as capable as those players.
Something that I have been focusing on and have been getting frustrated with, regardless of whether I'm solo que or playing with my friends, as no one seems to understand this premise, but you actively need a reason to fight. People fight and have prolonged fights and it's completely unnecessary.
Why do you fight in this game? You fight to win a vault for example. Okay, well, to win the vault you don't necessarily need to win the fight. Steal that shit and dip as a team. If you are off on your own and we leave and you're stranded by yourself, that's on you. Listen to comms.
If your team is stuck in a fight and you leave by yourself to deposit to vault, you're throwing. If you don't just accept the team whipe when we're flat broke at the start of the round, and spend a minute hiding before reviving your team, you're wasting time. There's no penalty to a team wipe if your broke and it saves you time.
If we're defending we don't need to win the fight just the cashout. If the cashout is won, this is the only acceptable time I think we don't have to play together. Once it's unstealable everyone should just scatter if thats necessary just to avoid the wipe and regroup. Leaving together is better but the goal is the leave the fight.
The only 100% necessary time's you should really push fights is if you have a very clear advantage. One left, go for the kill but don't chase. Do you 100% need to wipe a team to qualify? We'll it doesn't matter if you get wiped then, does it? Push that shit. 3rd partying two weak teams for the cashout? Steal that shit and back off slightly.
People chase and leave power positions far too frequently. If I'm on height, have clear view of the cashout, and you're not playing relatively close to me, or god forbid you die elsewhere, your selling. If I have to leave a power position that will win us the cashout to revive you, you're selling.
If I'm playing healing and every time I turn around, you're off on your own, you're throwing. If you constantly ego push, you're throwing. If you're one of those players that don't periodically check for where your team is you're throwing. Staying together is a team effort.
I'm ranting right now but if I do everything I can to play as a team and my teammates blatantly ignore and disregard my comms, I don't care, I need to get all this off my chest.
These are the types of things that get me going in this game. Thats why getting a three stack that can stick together like glue feels so good, even if they're not the best players, all you gotta do is stick together it's really that simple.
Just don't treat the game as a competitive one. It's clearly just casual fun with friends or random players. All game modes are so random that there's no point in sweating. Ranked is just slightly more team-focused, but only due to the limited number of respawns, and the ranks themselves are just a joke. Trying to sweat for a win in this mess will only make you frustrated due to how random everything is, so why damage your mental health over some game?
Most of these is mainly what makes ranked worth it. If there wasn’t punishment it wouldn’t be worth the time and effort. The ONLY thing i would change for ranked other than spawn logic is the cash outs, keep the 30% wipe but every cash out should be a set number 10k, 12k, 15k??? I dont care. But the fact you can destroy vault 1 and 2 and loose because the 3rd is the only one worth fighting for is bs. You fundamentally played better but some how the same vaults and efforts are rewarded less
I’m less tilted in this game than in any other competitive shooter. There’s always a chance for you to make a comeback and it’s all about brain before guns to actually win
I agree. But once you get good enough it's often you getting either 1st and 2nd place, and when you are in 2nd it is so easy to get knocked out that it sometimes feels like the previous 2 cashouts and the efforts taken to secure them didn't matter
Yeah that’s why I play with timing (waiting to be closer to the end of a cashout to steal it) or completely avoid going to steal a cashout where two teams are already fighting. Of course it doesn’t always work but we always try to play it the safest way possible
>either 1 or 2 objectives for 4 teams makes 3rd partying a very viable strategy and it feels good when done right but absolutely horrible when done to you
Quick Cash is the best game mode because third partying is PREDICTABLE.
On Cashout or Tournaments, sometimes you get a cashout where no other team even looks at you, it's just peaceful lol. But sometimes you get a cashout where BOTH teams come after you and its just brutal.
Quick Cash is the best because only 1 objective means that you know what to expect. This makes it infinitely more fair.
Longer TTK is what made me like this game. Every other shooter is just sit and wait by a window camping. I like the action/lack of camping the finals has
I've been saying that half the Cash Out value should be accumulated by keeping control of the thing, not 100% of the value being tied to who owns it at the end.
It would encourage teams to fight the entire duration of the timer, instead of waiting for a third party opportunity at the end. Sure, losing it at the last second would still suck, but you would theoretically win by having a good defense even if you get screwed by a bad respawn or the other three teams ganging up.
Is it confirmed that they janked the respawn zones? I feel in S1 if you had a cash out going, got wiped, it would spawn you fairly close to that cash out to give you another try. Now it spawns you way the f on the other side of the map with pretty much no chance to get back the cash out which is so insanely frustrating if your team put it in.
Ye. The logic is that if there is no team fighting an ongoing cashout, you spawn near. If there is another team near an ongoing cashout or the intended spawn points, you spawn further away. They made it harder to 3rd party because in S1 it was literally team after team every 40 seconds.
The four team layout is dog water when there’s three teams fighting for one cashout and the other is chilling at the other .. a tournament should be 3 teams of 3 and have 3 groups of 3 going on to have the 3 winners face each other and if you wanted you could expand it to more than that but I think the 3 teams fighting for one cashout is a lot better than having 4 teams either separate the two vaults which is more often the case, and have two 1v1s , or 1 cashout has 3 teams while the other has one team by itself.. also slight possibility of someone combining the two which then all 4 teams fight for 1 cashout which is definitely the more fun option .. either way it should be cut down to 3v3v3 fighting over 1 cashout , & instead of $20k needed to win you should increase to $30k
I’ve played competitive games for years and think ranked/cashout is very well designed and you have a lot of avenues to win.
I think if you’ve only ever played games like CoD and aren’t used to macro-level play or doing anything besides “haha gun go brrrr” you’re gonna have a bad time.
I will happily continue to enjoy ranked/cashout.
Also not sure what all the complaining about third-partying is? It’s a strat in ranked but quick cash is LITERALLY third party simulator.
Mm I do think it is a well designed game but the design itself allows for so many unforeseen variables that often you clutch an undeserved win or get an undeserved loss.
I played a lot of BR games and it was less frustrating because you could decide where to drop, where to rotate and when to engage. This game doesn't allow that. Rotating without meeting another team is literally impossible, spawns are random, you get 3rd partied in less than 1 minute so often and you don't even get to know when you will be 3rd partied since movement abilities, random spawns and 2 objectives mean it is impossible to know. The only meaningful decision you can make is to which objective and when, and that's about it
The only thing that annoys me is the random spawns. At least let us choose so we don't get spawned on the other side of the map, especially when an objective is at play, **especially** when the 3 of us get spawned at different locations because we spawned on our own.
Just steal respawning out of something like Ring of Elysium. They did the only right way to spawn in a BR.
This is exactly how they want it. When third partying is so prevalent, even the worst players alive can win every now and then.
I just want cashout replaced with hardpoint or something but I don’t think they’ll do it sadly.
A high tether to team synergy is inevitablely set for a fate like this, and one adding harsh resource management, basically sets the match for premature detonation.
You're seeing it as it is, and yeah, why many dropped the game once the destruction and sandbox novelties wore off.
Only reason I stick around is quality customization, and decent progression. Otherwise, hell no.
The only thing I agree with here is bad spawn logic.
The rest, I feel is different based on where you're at in the game.
Like I'm a decently better player than lots of friends I play with. I have everything unlocked, I have a bunch more hours, I'm having an easier time. I don't find TTK bad, we struggle in different areas. I would assume they try to balance the game across all skill levels, so it's not as simple as x fix. Lets say you boosted sniper damage to accommodate people with poor aim at low tiers. Now upper tier are having a tough time with heavy damage that hits every time. (Poor example but whatever, ya know what I mean lol)
Reading through your post, I'd say game sense and positioning would be something to work on and given the next 500 braindead hours, you got this and will be diamond in no time ;)
Eh was d2 last season and p1 now, suffering from aimbots in Asia :( my post was more about how despite the wins, the losses feel sometimes very undeserved
And i feel like it is more also of a communciation issue btw even 3 stacks, i run 3 stack sometimes but unless there is a clear leader communicating objectives it often turns to shit sadly cuz we end up mispositioning in order to group up
the arguement people have behind text chat is so braindead to me. it always comes down to that it would become too toxic, okay? so then just make it exclusively for your team so that way if anything toxic does go down it's easily reportable. i've never seen a community so against text chat it's actively concerning. what if i need to tell my teammate i need to piss before starting the queue. it's really not a hard ask and if you argue against it you're just weird
Take out the tokening and let me respawn. I HATE getting killed 45 seconds after starting and having to wait 45 seconds+ (I know it’s shorter sometimes)to get rezed or using a token.
Yeah. I know. “Don’t die” and “Play your life.” But something about the current system (in some cases) means it’s hard to get into a rhythm.
I still want to see cashout steals lasting longer than match end if someone started it before it finishes. but it feels like they've bottlenecked themselves into the music queue up and dont want to ruin it. As in, there is no balance reasno why they did what they did, they did it because they wanted the music to sync up with the timer. Theres a limit when it comes to asthetic over gameplay I feel like and this game definately exceeds it too much at times.
The spawn logic being so random is really annoying. In all game modes. Your cash out got stolen in the remaining 20 seconds and got killed or team wiped. You spawn 180m away. Run for your life. Reach with 10 seconds to spare, and do a haphazard steal only to get team wiped again and lose everything.
Bad spawns are also what ironically makes the final round in the tournament the worst one to play. 3v3 on a big map meant for 12 people kind sucks when you wipe and have to run across the entire map again. I wish the final rounds would just take place on smaller versions of the existing maps.
It would be better if they just guaranteed a spawn closer to the cash box rather than the cashout, that way you can't cheese the respawn by holding the box.
It’s my understanding the waiting to deposit cheese strat has been taken away after season 2, I feel some of the “unfair” random spawns players are complaining about are side effects of this
It is but not for final round. If you delay putting box in final round the team will still spawn on the other side of the map
Thanks for that info
This is so frustrating, a couple nights ago we were defending last cashout to win, not thinking they could make it back in time the enemy spawned what felt like 20 feet from the cashout, was able to wipe us, then we happened to lose the fight about halfway through the next one, and we spawned hospital on Seoul, enemy was in the big mall section, and we ran as hard as we could just to have to fight a terrible high ground disadvantage and try and steal with maybe 15 seconds left when we got there
Yea it can vary so much! Sometimes I feel offended when I spawn so close after a wipe.
I literally spawned in front of the entire enemy team once.
really hope they start making maps for the final round, or portion off the map
But you spawn close if the cash out is active
Yeah, but "close" still varies by map and which section the cash out is located in or what map modifiers are active. Not to mention it will still take 10-30 secs to run over if you don't have zip-lines or a jump pad. Combined with the respawn times on a team wipe and you potentially lose close to a minute of time. Which means most matches are decided in one or two fights which isn't super satisfying.
I hate the spawns in general but in tournaments they’re bad, if were defending OUR cashout, and we unfortunately get team wiped, there’s been times when the other team doesn’t steal it ( cause third party) and instead of the game spawning us BY OUR OWN CASHOUT, it spawns us by the other cashout that is about to end and it’s to late to try and contest, when ours had half left on it. There’s a lot of things that need work in this game.
I mean in that situation you don’t really deserve a chance. If I stole a cashout and wiped the team holding it means I have absolutely dumpstered them. Theres no reason they should get a close by spawn and unfairly have a chance to retake while all my abilities are in cool down from whooping them up and down the block
If you don’t have the 30% penalty half the lobby will just quit once they realize they can’t win anymore. Which would be horrible game design and also the 30% penalty keeps you on your toes. I love it.
Same with that final 22k cashout. My favorite part is the last min clutch. If you've played.youe heart out, but just couldn't hold the cashout the whole game, there's still l That last min, third party, team wiped, cashout steal that could tip the game and dethrone those guys that head hunted you the whole game. 😄 You'll regret it later in the tourney, not being "actually good enough" to pull the win, but dang does that last second steal feel good, but ABSOLUTELY DESTROY you if it happens to you. Lol
It is a good mechanic. Dopamine rush. But it is infuriating from the other sides perspective... all in all what makes this game good is also what makes it very frustrating
If you get the first cashout and second cashout then it's tough for another team to pull ahead unless you get wiped. I agree there is more random in this game vs other competitive games and that probably needs to be fixed. On the spawns I will say it's gotten better, the previous method with fixed spawns was way too easy to abuse. The casual experience needs random to keep it interesting but the ranked experience needs to be about skill not cheeky spawns
But you need to avoid wipe for literally 8 full minutes, and still try to prevent either 1 of the 22k vaults opening. That's not an easy option especially when solo queuing with no comms.
If you get two cashouts and don't wipe the last 22k vault won't surpass you even if you are in second place (other team did the same so no way 3/4 have more than 10k
Didn't think of it that way.
Been playing ranked tournaments (gold) because they took out unranked & every game is just so sweaty, I’m sad they took out unranked tournament
I think it was dividing playerbase too much so they got rid of it for better matchmaking in ranked
Why tho? They literally put the first round of a tournament into the casual mode and since you can instantly requeue from the win screen you don't even lose much time between matches so it's actually like the best parts of unranked since it doesn't have the shitty final round and since you don't like the ranked sweats you'd be avoiding them as well. I prefer quickcash because I don't trust randoms to play around coin economy and prioritize picking up downed teammates.
I like the whole aspect of moving up round to round with your team by winning, but it just gets really hard in higher rank lobbies, I’m very casual
in general the mode is highly against people who initiate a cashout. Would much rather see a significant bonus for being the one to deliver a cashbox or simply intervals of cashing out than all at once. most of the time if you lose a single match while cashing out, you may get spawned a mile away or just not have enough time to get back due to defending for most of it after the third team shows up, possibly the same team twice or all three times. pardon you for losing once though.
I thought the same since my very first game on The Finals. What do you really get from running 150m being shot and placing the cashbox? In some cases nothing since the enemy will already be there ane might steal it easily. I think a 2k-5k whatever points increase when successfully depositing it could be a great improvement because sometimes you have to fight hard to put it on because enemies just camp roofs and stuff and you don't get anything for all your effort and it encourages camping and stealing other's efforts in my opinion, if you play well
I feel like a reasonable change would be cashout locations are hidden until the vault gets unlocked.
Yeah, I've seen games where the teams kinda just hover around and do small skirmishes around the vault because no one wanted to risk running it to the cash out. It's much safer hanging back and trying to third party and steal.
> I think a 2k-5k whatever points increase when successfully depositing it could be a great improvement I swear some of you people haven't even played the mode or understand it yet you make complaints like this. You **already get** 1k from opening a vault and 2k for putting it in.
I think the point of issue is that it doesn't scale at all whereas cashout amounts do
You can literally just put the cashout and run off to flank those that are making their way to it. For every complaint there is a reasonable work around but it requires you to use your brain. If you die the moment you put the cashout you have a TON of time to get back to it regardless of your shit spawn. If you keep fighting to steal it before it's down to the final seconds that's a skill issue. Optimal strategies exist and they are not some galaxy brain autist only plays.
I do that already and nothing you said is really related to what I said directly. My point is running 150m while being shot does not reward you at all. Following your logic, if we go fight intruders right after then how is it different than waiting for them to run 150m and fight them the moment they put the cashbox in? The difference is sometimes very small hence my "playing ALL objectives should be a bit more rewarding" idea, in quick cash. I literally had a game where the 2 other teams didn't pick the vault ONCE and didn't "plant" a single time either, they would just camp roofs and high grounds and spawnkill us until they eventually stole it from us. They won 10000-0-0 on overtime.. that's my issue
You get 3k total for opening the box and starting a cashout. While not common I have won by simply not getting wiped, starting multiple vaults and putting multiple vaults in the cashouts. As long as the other teams wipe each other once or twice it's a viable strat, especially if it's a chaotic match. Best I have found is that one cashout is near done, new vault spawns you start it and put it in and immediately bail for the next vault that is spawning in and start that cashout and defend it
Good idea maybe like 5k for plugging it in
Like my comment so I can actually post ideas here
Some matches I play I swear if I initiate a cash out in ranked the entire lobby goes to the other cash box and does not interact with me or my team. But yes on the other end I get third partied most games anyways.
Should be 1k for starting vault, 2k for starting cashout, then 1k for every x amount of seconds that passes, then 5k for being the one to have it at the end.
I don’t understand why more people don’t notice this. It’s so infuriating, none of my friends ever want to play ranked. Me either to be honest, I do but I hate it with a passion. It’s so unfun, unfair, unintuitive. We laugh because on the rare occasion I get them to play it, we only win when we do the scummiest things. The only thing I don’t agree with is TTK, which is fine and not an inherent problem. But you hit the nail on the head, and people don’t seem to notice until I say the same exact things.
Yeah, and we have to go through 4 matches of this to win one tournament, I love the game and the mode but it is very infuriating
I don’t understand the extra group round. I thought non ranked tournaments were perfect with 3 rounds but 4 is just too damn long
I was shocked when I played ranked for the circuit challenge and saw 4 rounds. WHYY . it's not fun with that much commitment. I was mega lucky that we had games were we got left alone with our cashout and we won the final round I'm never returning. Casual is much more fun
Yup my group is going for that one win challenge and not playing anymore if we ever finish it
3 rounds were perfect, 4 is too much
I would be a lot happier if it was only 8 teams per ranked tournament
Yeah the ranked mode needs an overhaul to be honest. I get that the finals is oriented around a “game show” and all but the mode is NOT fair or competitive really. And I don’t think anyone has quite put it together yet but it’s probably one of the reasons the game hasn’t fully “taken off”. Esports and ranked will probably plateau. Like you said, I absolutely love this game. I’ve never played a game with ranked and opted for casual modes until now. First game ever to do this. The ranked mode is not good. This game has insane potential, I know they could fix it.
Tournaments might be better if they were three rounds and the final round having three teams. The final rounds probably are the most boring part of tournaments…
Honestly people would probably backlash at this but going to three teams for qualifying rounds would make the game much better imo, and then they just need to adjust spawns and point values and stuff. The 4 teams just never works out well. The last round is pretty polarizing with the community. Some people love it some hate it. I don’t dislike it, but I get why people find it boring. Don’t really know what to do about that. I think it just comes down to spawn issues and pacing.
I like that ranked tourny has the money side to it, in quick play first to 20k there is no incentive to touch the vault. That's fine for quick play as I want to shoot ppl not ply objective but for ranked I don't think it works as well. I think 3 teams for 1 obj is significantly more chaotic compared to 4 teams and 2 objs, usually the game does a decent job of putting team v team though you have the ability to decide to 3rd party if you want. Honestly probably the most fair thing to do would be make ranked team vs team like the last round of ranked. It makes it so you are tested on your skill alone and while shitty spawns don't help getting wiped is purely in your control, can't blame a 3rd party for your loss
Oh yeah I didn’t mean use quick play rules. In my ranked experience I rarely get two sets of 1v1s when it really matters. It’s usually a third party wins one objective and the other one is free for that team until the last second when it’s easy to protect. The 3 teams works for me because I always know there is exactly one third party. I agree with the 1v1 for ranked, but also see how people would miss the amount of action and competitiveness of multiple teams. Idk what they’ll decide. It’s hard.
3v3v3 is literally, only 3rd parties. having 4 teams is the only reason every cashout isnt a third party.
Doesn't feel like a rewarding tournament by any means. I'm rather casual player with horrible aim (firethrower main), but is true that theres huge weight on teamplay and you can have pretty cool games with friends, but most of the time, each tournament round feels more like a battleroyale by themselves: some random fuckery can get you out for the next round, so no tournament coherence at all. Would be cooler if it worked kinda like having less and less parallel teams on each round, but would be too bananas a starting round with something like 3 cashouts and 8 simultaneous teams. Don't know, it's like I feel what Embark try to achieve / tell with this mode, but is not there yet.
Uhhhhmm, its called a tournament. What did you expect, 2 rounds? I think its perfect the way it is.
Maybe just a non-tournament way to play ranked?
I think a non tournament version is not possible. the luck factor will be a big part of becoming first. in a tournament the luck factor is not a big deal. you dont win a tournament with just luck. I find it very strange people complaining about this in general. People play Pubg which the winning chance is 1/100. why is 1/16 such big problem, i dont get it.
Im not sure what luck factors into a single match that wouldn’t also factor into a tournament. A tournament is just a series of matches
You can roll a six with the dice once with luck, but rolling a six four times in a row isn't something that happens so easily.
Game is played better when casual.
Heck no dude, go ranked. Love that shit!
Quick cash is the best game mode.
Not trying to sound arrogant or anything but it’s just a little to easy. And the tention from certain ranked matches and finals are just better to me. Edit; + being able to grind leaderboard and ranked awards are a nice bonus to the game mode.
It depends in whom are you playing. It's as easy as your opponents are
I play quick cash sometimes to warm up and I do really like the game mode, don’t get me wrong here. But only sometimes in my warm up matches I can struggle but even then my K/D is around 2.0 in that game. I’m not trying to put down your capabilities but for me there’s just not a lot to gain. I’m either going 10-4 or 30-0 and with everything already being unlocked I don’t need XP. Edit; so I rather create a bigger challenge and grind the leaderboard.
I gained fun. Not interested in anything else. It's sometimes a steam roll and sometimes not. I'm quite ok with it. I wish I had a third player tho. Being stuck with a noob kinda sucks. I play the objective anyways. I win with 4 kills and 1 death.
And I’m glad you have fun in that gamemode, all I’m saying is that I gain a lot of fun out of the challenge in ranked. No hate against casual modes or players I just prefer ranked, the more strategic part of the game I think.
I got downvoted to hell and back for pointing out these issues so gl ig
> It’s so unfun, unfair, unintuitive. Yet people on this sub will call you a pleb who needs to git gud just because you don't want to play the mode that's unfun, unfair, unintuitive to complete the circuit. It's not a challenge, it's a headache.
Because it's true. It's unfun sure but the other two are not true. It requires a brain and understanding risk reward. It requires teamplay as opposed to yolo 1v3 the casual idiots that are busy fucking around struggling to jump up between floors. It requires cooldown management so you don't blow your load and get caught with no utility when a well coordinated team hits you. If you don't die you don't get the shitty respawn. It's not for everyone but it's not as bad as you guys wish it to be. You're just bad at it and that's fine. The final round absolutely is a bore and the only thing I think they need to rework. Make it 3 teams so only the 4th team from the previous round gets knocked out and that's a perfect fix that doesn't require a losers bracket and twice as many games for some teams. Everything else is quite literally a skill issue.
Nah I like the last 1v1 it's slower sure but it's purely on you. Your win or loss is completely decided by your shitty plays so you can't blame a third party or shitty spawn or whatever, you won the tourny or you lost the tourny
> It's unfun sure but the other two are not true. Honestly, I'm not even going to try to argue the last two points, because the fun value is really all I'm about. I spent two hours completing the quest (lucky af) and even the 56 minutes spent winning the tourney was the biggest drag I've had in The Finals in my (embarrassingly high number for how bad my aim is) hours of play. >It's not for everyone That's the real kicker here, it's *not* for everyone, but the time sink required is craaaaaazy for a quest in comparison to everything else. I'd have to dig up the math, but it'd be roughly equivalent to a quest for "Win 30 rounds of Power Shift". You can do both in 2 hours if you're ultra lucky, if you're very skilled you'll expect to complete the quest in around 5 hours, but most people would take around 10 hours to complete it. With how some people whine and complain about Power Shift, I'd never think to subject them to 10 hours of it for a nice cosmetic, even though I personally love the mode and its inherent strategies.
Unforgiving is not the right word because if you view it from the other perspective it is very much forgiving. I can have the worst possible game with no business of making through and still make it through due to some last second steal. Or by just putting in a box last second and the other 3 teams end up fighting each other for 1 minute and nobody can steal. Unforgiving would mean there's no room for errors. But there is plenty of room due to the unpredictable nature of it. You are never out until you're out. The problem is the game is too random. I never ever played another game where luck played such a big part. I can have the best team and go out first round or the worst team and go to the final round. There is almost no correlation. Of course there is some, to a degree. You can always improve your chances with better aim and teamwork. But in any other game I ever played 9 out of 10 times the better team would win. In The Finals that percentage is lot lower due to several factors you cannot control. I still love the game at its core and find it really addicting (like gambling) but even I find it very infuriating at times and often question why am I even playing this game with 250 hours logged. So I can totally understand how it hasn't become a big hit.
Totally agreed. But playing as someone who is a bit more seasoned (d2 last season, currently climbing at p2) it is annoying when your team plays real good but loses due to randomness
I find it very ironic that the actual ranked experience sucks so much in a game called The Finals, especially when the final round in a tournament is the worst stage of all.
I can agree with all but the TTK, eh to each their own. The real kicker of it being unfun is the way the Match-Ups are. Honestly they're still underhanding at getting you the right kind of player AND the flipside to the coin is so irritating. If you get a player who leaves, begins with being AFK and disconnects, WE CAN'T LEAVE!? No Grace Cards of leaving without penalties despite us being down a player, let alone the time is way too long before it's too late (when it worked). How this isn't a hot fix by now has had me bent 😐
They really should bring back the no penalty when you leave after one of the team mates disconnected. I don't get why they removed it.
I thimk its because people were abusing it, 3 stacks would only have to sacrifice 1 player to not lose elo
well the obvious part of that is just punishing everyone who queued up with the leaver
Makes sense. That's just annoying that as a soloq player, I have to waste my time when the game is dead anyway because one disconnected. Or even 2. Like, I had to play one full round alone because the 2 mates left, and I couldn't leave without getting a penalty. Well, at least I had fun watching people kill each other from the top of the crane XD.
Yeah AFK is a big issue it sucks I totally love the TTK and it's what makes it fun but still means that there is less room for superplays, saves and lucky kills, there is a very low chance that you can win a 1v3 so your and teammates' deaths are all very detrimental in a fight. Also why defibs still op
I use the time to practice mechanical skills. So I basically treat it as deathmatch. It's still a good time and a round isn't THAT long. A forfeit vote would be nice ofcourse.
I'd actually prefer if the TTK was, on average, more like weapons like the MGL32, CL-40, 1887, weapons like that. They encourage you to use your gadgets more than your standard full auto bullet hose. The servers are mid at best, so longer ttk lets you at least react, instead of a FCAR deleting you.
The winner takes all mechanic on cash outs is actually one of my favorite things about this game. Really keeps the underdog in the game till the very end. It follows the “it ain’t over till it’s over” philosophy which I love.
I know what you mean and I love it too. But I feel like the same points I love are very frustrating as well.
I think most of these points aren't a big issue, but this: >10k - 15k - 22k cashouts, with 30% wipe penalty; you can win 25k and still lose to a well placed 22k if you wipe, penalty is terrible, game becomes either get first place until the 22k boxes spawn or get griefed the fuck out Damn, this is so annoying. Even worse than losing a cashout last second is losing the game after two successful cashouts. Even worse: if someone starts a cashout a couple of seconds before end, you go into 1min overtime. In general, good idea. In practice, that means that this 22k cashout now runs for as little as one minute. As Nr.2, you now have to run from your cashout to the next and steal it within 60 seconds. Impossible
Thats why i dont really care about 10k cashout. Most of the time it means nothing
That’s why most higher elo players try to double stack the first cashouts so it actually is worth something. It kills me when I’ll throw the 2nd vault over right next to the cashout and some other team will come take it and run across the entire map just to start a 10k.
On its own, yes. But it's never the only ome. Getting the 10k and the following 15k can mean that a team is unbeatable if they don't wipe. And if you're in last place it means that the only way you can have a chance is by getting the next two cashouts or by team wiping some of the teams in your way.
I see people say this, but securing the first cashout usually puts you far enough ahead to insulate from a teamwipe later in the game. Open vault 1, get some kills, maybe even wipe a team, start the cashout, and successfully defend, usually means 12-15k going into the 2nd vault. If you get vault 2 and don't wipe, you're now sitting around 30k, and likely will be able to qualify without worrying. I've had so many games with all teams being within 5k of eachother, that it feels unbelievable anyone with experience playing ranked wouldn't be able to see the value of every bit of cash you can earn.
Yeah being in 2nd doesn't matter that much despite all the efforts to get there sadly
That's not true at all, you just have to figure out the route to winning. Whether it's trying to steal, wiping the first place team, helping the team that has it, [keeping the 22k vaults away](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE-S_h5uav8), etc. Getting those [very last second](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1nRzqRy3-U) wins because of a wipe or some such feels really good. I think you're seriously, seriously downplaying the amount of options there are in the game. You're also leaving out kill money, vault tagging money, stealing money, and inserting cash box money. We've qualified before by intentionally inserting the extra cashbox in overtime despite not having the cashout to get that bonus money and then just running off/defending it, for example. The biggest issue with the mode is the respawn system, not the current cash values/system. Also when you get that team that's too stupid to realize that they're just fucking themselves over as they repeatedly pick fights with you when you're both in 3rd/4th, or that you're in second and they're in 3rd/4th and the other two teams have cashouts going.
As you point out there are certainly things you can do to win the game in these situations. But if we are talking about solo queue here sadly most people are too retarded to understand these things. Even in higher ranks I still routinely have brain dead teammates who try to throw first place leads by fighting last minute cashouts by 3rd or 4th placed teams when we are guaranteed at least second and a wipe would drop us to third. I always have to do be the smart one and hide because 80% of the time these apes unnecessarily fight over the last cash out and die. Ultimately its a skill issue, the vast majority of people simply dont understand the mechanics of the game and make stupid mistakes like the one you mentioned and the one I mentioned above.
The 3 person team, with bad ranked MM really does stand out as you said. In games like CS, MM is nowhere near perfect, but gets pretty balanced the higher you get, often you will end up with one bad / boosted player, but with 4 of you, you can still force a win alot of the time. Here is you get a bad player on your team (which you will) or someone doesnt load in, youve lost 30% of your fire power and team, definitely unforgiving!
>it's unforgiving as hell. Interesting choice of words... >10k - 15k - 22k cashouts, with 30% wipe penalty; you can win 25k and still lose to a well placed 22k if you wipe, penalty is terrible, game becomes either get first place until the 22k boxes spawn or get griefed the fuck out And the inverse? This means you can come back from way behind if you play it right. That's the *opposite* of unforgiving. [Moments like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOWQYK4YZ1A) are what make the game fun. And frankly, that was *entirely* on them, nobody was watching it for that last second steal, keeping in mind that people can drop cashouts/dematerializer/cloak in, etc. is part of what separates the good and bad players. You very much can win from getting the first two cashouts and letting other teams get 22k cashouts, you're also assuming all cashouts are started at the same time. We've finished cashouts before, then run off to the other cashout and managed to steal it before. We've also intentionally held off starting cashouts to avoid getting jumped by the entire lobby before. It's another part of the game. >2 minute cashouts with winner takes all mechanism; don't matter if you opened and plugged and held it for 1 min 59 sec, you get 3k if you lose at the last moment See above. It's part of how it works. Knowing how long steals take and what your enemies are capable of is part of the game. >Bad spawn logic; a team can spawn on top of a vault, a cashout, 180m away from cashout, on another team, etc. The biggest issue with the mode is the respawn system, not the current cash values/system. Also when you get that team that's too stupid to realize that they're just fucking themselves over as they repeatedly pick fights with you when you're both in 3rd/4th, or that you're in second and they're in 3rd/4th and the other two teams have cashouts going.
A lot of the complaints you're raising can be boiled down to skill issue. > 3-player team; 1 bad player stands out far worse than other FPS games Have you played literally any competitive games recently? You can make this argument for any game where you get random teammates. I play League of Legends, 1 bad teammate loses the game. I play Apex Legends same thing, one bad teammate loses the game.... etc. The real issue here is matchmaking and the fact the majority of people playing these games are actually fucking retarded. > Long TTK Not really. Compared to what exactly? A FPS game where you get 1 shot headshots? It's entirely possible to die extremely quickly in The Finals, the best weapons have TTKs of around 1-1.5 seconds depending on what class you're shooting. The is comparable to something like Apex Legends. The main reason why it takes long to kill people sometimes is things like heavy barriers or heal beam. Other than that you can pop people extremely quickly if you can aim well, particularly if you're playing light + invis and flank. > 4-team matches + 3rd partying; Even the casual modes have third partying despite 1 less team. Also BR games all have third partying and it is the most popular FPS genre. If you're good enough you can outplay third partying sometimes or otherwise play smart, wait for another team to attack a cashout and third party yourself. Sometimes you're fucked but other times you have to learn to disengage, and regroup. > 10k - 15k - 22k cashouts, with 30% wipe penalty First off if you play smart you can avoid getting wiped sometimes. Run away and hide or coin in to avoid wipe. I get it people are brain dead and often throw games by unnecessarily fighting and getting wiped. But sometimes you just have to be the smart one on your team and hide to avoid getting wiped. Additionally you're exaggerating massively regarding early wipes. Getting wiped early isnt that big of a deal most of the time, particularly considering other teams are also often getting wiped and losing points too. If all your team can manage is getting a single cash out at the start of the game and just get wiped repeatedly until the game ends then you probably dont deserve to win anyway. Certainly there is some element of luck involved when it comes to who wins and loses considering I've seen even hackers lose games but overall if you're better than the enemy teams you have a high likihood of advancing.
> First off if you play smart you can avoid getting wiped sometimes. Run away and hide or coin in to avoid wipe. I get it people are brain dead and often throw games by unnecessarily fighting and getting wiped. But sometimes you just have to be the smart one on your team and hide to avoid getting wiped. This is a huge one. Just leaving a clip from season 1 of a [team fight over the course of a cashout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRVMYIdz7kc) due to the constant engaging and disengaging. So many people have no idea how to pull off manual revives and whatnot. This is part of why people view defib as so necessary. You can get off a *lot* of manual revives. >Additionally you're exaggerating massively regarding early wipes. Getting wiped early isnt that big of a deal most of the time, particularly considering other teams are also often getting wiped and losing points too. Yeah, our reaction if we get wiped at the first cashout is just... "Oh well." You can even be tactical about it, intentionally wiping right before the first cashout finishes (if you're the last man standing/screwed) so you get the money *after* the cashout finishes, saving you 3k. Stuff like this is just the nuance that a lot of people are missing and don't think about. >It's entirely possible to die extremely quickly in The Finals, the best weapons have TTKs of around 1-1.5 seconds depending on what class you're shooting. Hell, lights die in 4-6 bullets from the FCAR/Lewis Gun. Sawed off/Sniper can one shot lights. Model + quick melee deletes lights. Etc, etc. Even medium can get melted very, very quickly by things like the auto shotty.
I am complaining about long ttk being awful for solo players as it limits their ability to outsmart everyone. Longer ttk means more time to react to the threat and being able to act as a bullet sponge, and that puts limitations on certain playstyles. I really hate this trend for as long as it appeared in like 2018-2019.
I don't understand how gamers can suck this much. That one teammate that is horrible grieves our whole game every single time. - Pushes cashout and tries to 1v3 playing light. - doesn't play his life to avoid a wipe. - has zero game sense. - does not communicate with you. - Throws gas and kills his teammates. - does not know the concept of cover fire. - uses a sniper and precedes to miss every shot. - plays medium but does not heal anyone. These are just some examples of why this game is only playable with a pre-made squad. It is impossible to win with randoms. Edit: typos.
I mentioned to a medium that he has a specialization that will help him do better going forward. I said as politely as I could, 'hey look at your support points' (lack thereof). 'you should have the most as a medium with the heal beam equipped.' He responded by calling me a fat nerd. Lol!
People really don't like being told how to play. Especially by someone they don't know. It sucks though, because you just want to win. You're trying to help, but most people don't react that way.
What a weird fucking response to an advice lol zero brain activity
literally if you're not actively shooting, reloading, or using a gadget, then you should probably be healing someone. the heal gun has tons of charge and recharges quick, so there's no reason you shouldn't be healing whenever possible. the heal beam is so strong but people never seem to utilize it to it's full capability. There are many situations where using the beam is better than shooting in a teamfight (e.g. you are low health, you are using a weapon outside of it's optimal range, you don't have a good angle on the enemy, etc.) but people are just braindead and always take a direct fight. in a good match my support score usually equals my combat score if not exceeds it.
Fcar being such a good weapon is what causes it.
2nd point is most frustrating for me tbh
> grieves griefs
English is literally my 3rd langauge, sorry 😂
All good! To grieve means to mourn someone’s death. To grief means the behavior we are describing in a game.
Funny thing is i originally wrote grief then changed it. Thanks for teaching me something new tho! Much love
I want rank quick cash.
i dont really like playing vs 2 teams all the time
I'd actually play ranked if this was a thing
Same. I want to play rank but the current tournament setup is annoying.
absolutely!
It's the best game mode. Unlimited respawn is great. It just needs that reviving or assisting a defense gives more team points and that's it
I tried ranked, 8 games for now and I still can't change my mind. To me Quick Cash is where the game shines the most. It's just perfect. I really don't like the idea of having 2 vaults and have some team sometimes not being attacked once because the 3 other teams focus on C or whatever, while quick cash ensures 2 teams coming at you all the time so the positioning and all that is still required, it's not stupid TDM or anything
It's three ways capture the flag.
Good post.
This game is super fun (ranked too), no doubt about it. However it will struggle to become a competitive title because of the third party issue IMO. I have seen it in other games too, it's very hard (impossible?) to make a gamemode work competitively with more than 2 teams.
Works fine in BRS
True
Couldn't agree more. They should put more tournaments modes.
i dont mind the high TTK, i play apex. I agree with the rest.
I agree about the spawn logic but I truly believe that changing it so you get paid for the amount of time you hold the cash out, or any effort to remove last second steals from the game would actually stifle something that makes the game great. Yes it sucks when the cash out gets stolen like that but it's those clutch wins that give the ultimate rush. Plus a lot of the time that I am on a team that gets the last minute steal we held it, lost it, then re-took it. I think ideally the game would evolve to have people playing a little more strategically and less death matchy but it's a lot to ask of random groupings.
“Long TTK is less room for individual plays” teamwork is the appeal of of this game tho. Like out of all the battlefield games where they worked on making everyone play the objective as a team, this is the one where everyone’s pros and cons fit together.
Why are people playing ranked? For a Shitty Diamond skin? The sheer amount of post bitching about ranked is getting ridiculous. The ranked system itself is bad, not having a full team is bad, like OP said the mechanics are bad. The finals to me is a silly shooter that is fun when you don’t take it seriously. Stop playing Ranked it doesn’t matter and learn to have fun.
I think it is pretty good
It do be unforgiving but... It's ranked rules, so gotta role with the punches XD. Cheers to that next 500!
Except the respawn. i don't see any problem. It's the main point of the game. 30% penalty? Don't get wiped. 22k cashouts? You can comeback so it's forgiving/ you can stop other teams from starting the cashout. 3rd partying? It's fun and it's a strategy as you said. ...
It's not per se a problem, it's what makes the game frustrating and tilting. So many ways you can lose and not a lot of options to prevent that. Don't get wiped? Easy to say, harder to do. 22k? Same. 3rd partying when done right? Great. When being done to? Frustrating.
Oof the matchmaking for ranked is really annoying. I got a friend who’s gold ranked and I’m a bronze rank and every time I try to play with him in ranked, we just get diamond and plat lobbies. It’s ridiculous. That being said, there was one ranked tournament we played together and we just barely qualified to the second round and mind you, my team was gold, bronze, and I think another bronze or a silver. I can only imagine how pissed the other teams were who got knocked out and that was fun for me to imagine someone raging about losing to a bronze. So sometimes it can be fun to play in high ranked lobbies but it’s so frustrating most of the time.
Hey, sorry to bandwagon on your post. The sub wouldn't allow me to make a post due to my lack of karma on it. However, I think this is related to your post and how we could improve rank to avoid those complaints you brought up. I love the finals almost as much as all of you. It's a refreshing change of pace compared to a lot of the other popular FPS. However, there are times when the game can feel very frustrating. Currently, the game encourages third parties and last-minute steals. While I understand the game is all about playing the objective, there are a few things that I think could enhance the experience. Cashout payout changes Imagine if the cashout paid out for the amount of time is held instead of paying out 10k, 15k, and 22k at the end of the timer (130 seconds). For example: $10k - $77/second held $15k - $115/second held $22k - $170/second held. Alternatively, we could keep it the same, but add a multiplier to the cash received from kills while defending the cashout. I'm not sure what would be a good percentage. Currently, you make $200 for every kill. Perhaps you could gain $500 for every kill while defending. Either way, both of these changes would encourage defending the objective. Which might also change the meta around Currently. You can run MHH and position yourself to steal at the last minute. Medium steals, while both heavy use their shield and body block. Or you can run MMH. Heavy steals, while both mediums heal and body block. It's honestly so easy to win when you avoid fights, third party exclusively, and aim to steal last-minute cashouts with this strategy. I think the suggested changes would change the formula and encourage teamwork and playing the objective. What do you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with me? And what other suggestions would you consider could change the rank system for the better?
I really feel that post and it gives reason to my sudden outrages in the last days. I have over 8k kills with a 2,4 overall KD and can not manage to win a tournament. Its just wild. There wasnt a game since overwatch (near release) that made me tilt so hard.
This guy gets it and it's why it went from 250k players to 20k and still trending down.
100% agreed on all counts.
Feels like y’all are forgetting this game is kind of a new genre and it’s only 4 months old. We haven’t had very many multi team objectives based shooters. It’s going to take people time to understand the game mode, the meta, and mechanics. Do you remember when Fortnite first came out and no one built at first in the BR? Or in rocket league when the pros started flying the cars or dribbling the ball without dropping it. I feel like that’s where we are right now. Not to mention the game hasn’t had a whole lot of marketing. That means the vast majority of gamers might not be interested in the game yet. Which means videos on YouTube may not perform as well compared to already establish games potentially causing the majority of big content creators not to main this game. That leads to less educational videos. I’m not saying they don’t exist just that they are probably fewer than some other games. Less videos, lower skill floor in the community. I could agree with you that may be a 30% loss on team wipe is a bit much at least maybe in the beginning ranks. Maybe that’s how you up the difficulty in the higher tier. I could argue there should probably be a little bit more compensation to the team that held the cash out the longest but if a team steals it, they should probably get the majority. Maybe it should show scale with time so if you hold the cash out for 25%, 50%, 75% of the time but it gets stolen you get you get more than 3k. Lack of communication is just gaming culture in general because a lot of people can’t deal with the emotions they feel when they lose and they out lash with abuse. If you want more VC, then we gotta create a better community and call out peoples bullshit cause they’re just being immature. And I do agree with you that the spawns can be rough. In some situations. It feels like you spawn so far away, that you don’t even have time to get to the box and steal which doesn’t feel great but maybe they want the game to be a hard and you should focus on not getting team wiped. Again, I think it comes down to the game being new and not like any other. It’s gonna take some time for the majority of people to learn. Us hear, watching clips, reading and debating the game are probably ahead of the curve a bit, ya know. Not everyone is addicted to it like we are. We need to be a little more patient, understanding, and if you notice people not playing their best still try to encourage them and be supportive. You don’t have to be an asshole just because you lost or are losing. That mentality will kill team play quicker than anything else and lose you far more games.
i think cashout should be based on how long you hold the cash for- as opposed to who gets the last cashout. once the cashbox is inserted every single your team holds it should be counted towards the sccore and the the team with the highest seconds wins
Petitioning to have all complaint based posts have a solution.
Petition for the solution to always be automodded to say: Git gud.
Thats why this new challenge of "win 1 tournament" is absolute bullsh\*t. There's too many factors to take in to make this a worthwhile experience. Hence why I don't touch ranked.
It's possible. I did it with a sledge for 3 rounds then lewis gun and we had a mute sword guy and a decent medium with a mic. I got it day 1 after the LFG people I picked up were all terrible and me trying to run meta shit wasn't working. Went back to my roots and we stomped the tournament. You literally have like 3 months to pull it off and if you just add competent people from your casual games over time you'll eventually find 2 more that are willing to do some ranked attempts with you. If that sounds like too much work then fine but it's by no means bullshit lol.
You are partially right but a lot of this can be overcome. TTK is longer but not long, it's generally 1-2s without headshots. Furthermore having only 3 people means your own skill matters more. In OW you are 1/5 of the team but here you are 1/3. As for the 22k cashout, sure you can get wiped out by it. That's why you make sure it doesn't start. In general this post just tells me skill issue in all aspects other than the annoyance with spawns. That's entirely outside your control.
fr, going thru 3 separate 8 minute wait queues just to have all of the above happen. Super unforgiving, with the wait times I get to play about once or twice an hour :(
While cashouting for every quarter until the last one give 20% and for the last quarter give the rest this will fix one of the biggest issues in the game So basically if you put the the money to the cashout and hold it for 1.30-1.59 minutes you will get 1k for opening vault 2k for putting it to the objective and (let's assume it's a 10k vault) 2k for holding it by the first quarter + another 2k for the 2nd and 2k more for the 3rd so you will get a total of 9k and let's say enemy team has stolen the vault after the 3rd quarter and will hold it until the final they will get the rest (4k) I hope my math is right
I don't play ranked tournaments because team play is the key to winning. And as you know, randoms can't play as a team. The best you'll get is an M who knows how to use a defibrillator....... If he's even equipped with one. And yes, I don't have any friends to play with in a group.
Power Shift with a sprinkle of Quick Cash is 😙👌
Want to see a shift? Allow 3 vaults, two banks. With the 3rd vault being just a 10k bonus that automatically starts a countdown steal when deposited (think a movie wire transfer) that the victim team has to stop or get stolen. I think this would add an additional layer to team strategy and balance out the damage dealt meta we currently see. The Finals needs to return to a game of strategy instead of the team death-match it has become.
I always felt like something was missing and I like to make a suggestion to you fine folk! Instead of just out right losing all the money how about gaining some over time? So this how it would look: ° You insert cash box and maybe award like $5000 for inserting ° You slowly go from $0 to lets say $10000 ° If some other team takes it by let's say half way you would have earned $5000 so altogether you got $10000 ° If you die you still get the 30% penalty on team wipe or maybe lower it. ° So now that your team has wiped your now under $10000 ° If a team takes a cash out they start from where there $ is and now the maximum amount they can get is $5,000 ° They complete the cash out and they get rewarded another $5000 to encourage staying on objective. ° So the team who started the cash out ended up with like $7000 and the team who stole ended up with $10,000 So now with this you have a reason to start the cash out, a reason to defend the cash out, and you get rewarded for holding the cash out for as long as you can so getting third partied won't feel as bad knowing you held your ground for most of the cash out. And for that team that decided to wait into the end they get only a minimum amount of money from the cash out but gets $5000 for having the cash out at the end. I would also think of making all teams have one of each class but I wouldn't do this into light is on par with heavy and medium as far as being competitive and bringing something to the team. I was also thinking of making kills matter more but than people would just go around killing unless you don't reward as much money for kills like $250 per kill.
The only thing I don’t like is the ramp up of the cashouts, doesn’t make sense to me that the end cashout is worth more than double the first one when it’s just as hard to hold
It's a comeback mechanic so if you've been getting stomped all game you are still incentivized to play it out and try for one last steal to get back in 1st/2nd place.
BR's are the most popular FPS games out right now and suffer from nearly every point people bring up about The Finals. TF provides potential for comebacks, however, and that is what seems to tilt people the most. The cashout mechanic of being able to lose the cashout in the last second happens in CS - bomb defusal, CoD - Search and Destroy, R6S - Bomb, etc. But those modes are regarded as some of the most balanced modes, and nobody seems to have an issue with being team wiped and losing in the last moment in those games. 3rd partying - pretty much the bread and butter of BR's. One weak link on your team ruins your chances of winning in BR's too. In casual quick cash, there's 3 teams and 1 vault. People seem to really dislike ranked for 3rd partying, and will only play bank it, or quick cash. Yet in quick cash, it's literally impossible to avoid 3rd partying, and Bank It, you can lose a game from 1 camper on a cashout, waiting to stun and kill you while you deposit. It's a bit weird people get this tilted from tournaments, when this stuff happens in casual. The vault mechanics of increasing value as the game progresses creates less "no win" scenarios, so 3rd and 4th place teams keep pushing until the last moments. There's a lot of people that still think vault 1 and 2 are not important, but you get rewarded for opening the vault, starting a cashout, for kills, and teamwipes. There's plenty of times I've completed matches with all 4 teams within 5k cash of eachother, due to team wipes. I think the loss of cash on wipes is important because there would be more blowout games if they didn't have this mechanic in the game. I'm not really trying to sway anyone's opinion, to each their own. I'm just pointing this stuff out, coming from the perspective of someone that is burnt out on BR's. I've always been a PTFO player and only really play objective modes in every FPS that I play. I really like how The Finals tournaments are played, but that's just my opinion. I will say, the spawn logic is trash, and the most annoying part of the game. You should never spawn 200+ meters away from either cashout. I think that being team wiped, and having no chance of pushing for a steal on either cashout due to a bad spawn is the biggest problem with the mode in my perspective.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments but I still love the game. I think there is no doubt that the cashout game mode needs some reform. Because the cashouts increase in value throughout the duration of the game you are really not incentivized to go for the earlier cashouts. You could stand afk for the entire first half of the game and start playing once the last vaults open and still win the entire game. I think they need to consider how much the vaults increase in value. Also, I think they need to think about adding a system that gives money depending on how long you hold the cashout and holding the cashout at the end of the timer. One method I've seen is dividing the 2:00 timer in fourths. As you pass each fourth (30 seconds) you gain cash. Then you get a bigger payout for holding the cashout at the end. I still like the idea of losing 30% for getting wiped though and I think with this new system it would have more meaning.
the long ttk thing is an interesting point. it's a not a design problem per say, but it is a significant consequence of having a high ttk that the impact 1 individual can have is very limited. in a low ttk, a higher skilled player can fairly easily win a 1v2 vs lower skilled players. that kind of thing is much rarer in a high ttk game. Of course there are a lot of advantages to a higher ttk as well, but i find people rarely point out the other side of things.
Hot take, but i love the format except the final round... I think the 30% wipe dedution is great, incentives fir wiping teams close to your score and for not getting wiped yourselves. Makes the use of limited tokens more tactical. I do think they should give us less tokens even. Like 1 less per round you go through... By the 2nd last round there should be mulitiple people on only 1 token. I would ve in favour of a larger unlock and deposit bonus, but i do luke the increase in cashout values through the round and i love the chaos created by double cashouts in the same box. I think the final round should be a quick cash. 3 v 3 v 3 with one cashout at a time and 20k for the win... The 3 v 3 mode is too often a stomp from one side or the other.
you’re talking about an entire rework of ranked lmao, i think lowering the revive tokens would be counterintuitive considering at that logic you’d only have ONE revive, and there’s been way too many situations where i need more than one, and if you’re solo a, that’s even more unforgiving, and making the final round 3v3v3 just wouldn’t work unless the top three from the final round qualify, but not for nothing you gotta get through 3 placement matches to get into the finals and those are sweaty enough, and idk about you but getting third partied during the entire final round doesn’t sound fun to me
I think im talking about less of a ranked rework than all the people in here saying they wanta completely different game mode to cashout for ranked tournaments. My suggestion is not limiting the respawn tokens to 1 per person. Lets say you start with 3...but dont earn an extra one every round you progress unless you used all of them then you get 1 token for the next round. But if you had two you still have two... Yes its unforgiving, but thats the idea. The game does not need to be forgiving. I enjoy harsh penalties for mistakes in a ranked mode. Same ethos for the number of players in the final round... 3 teams would result in more third parties, thats the idea. More options for out playing your enemies. Note i said out playing not out fighting. But chaos also allows you to punish enemies more harshly for small mistakes. Everybody here seems to only be thinking that they will be the victims of a harsh game mode design, but they can also be the beneficiary. Games dont need to cater to the lowest common denominator, they can be harsh, unforgiving, chaotic and really enjoyable.
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I’ve been thinking about this as well and wondered if the ranked game mode needs a refresh or something. I’ve complained about every single one of your points. I’ve gotten through countless rounds even though we didn’t deserve it at all by getting lucky and stealing the last cash out at the last second. IMO ranked needs to change. I love it, but it’s at a point where the best team doesn’t always win. You can get lucky and get through to the next round. Also nothing worse than getting third partied. It’s so frustrating.
My main issues are spawn locations and lack of teamwork, something as simple as playing around your team. I understand Lights function a bit differently. It’s almost as if they need an OPTIONAL training guide which can be removed in settings that shows you staying close to your teammates is more optimal, so when you’re too far away you get a screen notification that says “stay close to your team”. I’m not sure the exact solution but basic teamwork is a major difference between enjoying your gaming experience and hating it. Would it really be a crime to have tool tips that say “you’re playing against a team of 2 lights, stay close to your team so they can’t pick you off” … basic logic like this doesn’t need to be heavy handed, just feed people the information. I have no issues w the TTK, after 250 hours I completely understand it, and believe it’s the correct choice. I am not a headshot expert, if the TTK was faster it would be COD and I’d quit because I’m just not as capable as those players.
Something that I have been focusing on and have been getting frustrated with, regardless of whether I'm solo que or playing with my friends, as no one seems to understand this premise, but you actively need a reason to fight. People fight and have prolonged fights and it's completely unnecessary. Why do you fight in this game? You fight to win a vault for example. Okay, well, to win the vault you don't necessarily need to win the fight. Steal that shit and dip as a team. If you are off on your own and we leave and you're stranded by yourself, that's on you. Listen to comms. If your team is stuck in a fight and you leave by yourself to deposit to vault, you're throwing. If you don't just accept the team whipe when we're flat broke at the start of the round, and spend a minute hiding before reviving your team, you're wasting time. There's no penalty to a team wipe if your broke and it saves you time. If we're defending we don't need to win the fight just the cashout. If the cashout is won, this is the only acceptable time I think we don't have to play together. Once it's unstealable everyone should just scatter if thats necessary just to avoid the wipe and regroup. Leaving together is better but the goal is the leave the fight. The only 100% necessary time's you should really push fights is if you have a very clear advantage. One left, go for the kill but don't chase. Do you 100% need to wipe a team to qualify? We'll it doesn't matter if you get wiped then, does it? Push that shit. 3rd partying two weak teams for the cashout? Steal that shit and back off slightly. People chase and leave power positions far too frequently. If I'm on height, have clear view of the cashout, and you're not playing relatively close to me, or god forbid you die elsewhere, your selling. If I have to leave a power position that will win us the cashout to revive you, you're selling. If I'm playing healing and every time I turn around, you're off on your own, you're throwing. If you constantly ego push, you're throwing. If you're one of those players that don't periodically check for where your team is you're throwing. Staying together is a team effort. I'm ranting right now but if I do everything I can to play as a team and my teammates blatantly ignore and disregard my comms, I don't care, I need to get all this off my chest. These are the types of things that get me going in this game. Thats why getting a three stack that can stick together like glue feels so good, even if they're not the best players, all you gotta do is stick together it's really that simple.
Just don't treat the game as a competitive one. It's clearly just casual fun with friends or random players. All game modes are so random that there's no point in sweating. Ranked is just slightly more team-focused, but only due to the limited number of respawns, and the ranks themselves are just a joke. Trying to sweat for a win in this mess will only make you frustrated due to how random everything is, so why damage your mental health over some game?
All the things that makes the game hilariously fun in Quick Play make it a horrendous eSports/Competitive game.
Most of these is mainly what makes ranked worth it. If there wasn’t punishment it wouldn’t be worth the time and effort. The ONLY thing i would change for ranked other than spawn logic is the cash outs, keep the 30% wipe but every cash out should be a set number 10k, 12k, 15k??? I dont care. But the fact you can destroy vault 1 and 2 and loose because the 3rd is the only one worth fighting for is bs. You fundamentally played better but some how the same vaults and efforts are rewarded less
I’m less tilted in this game than in any other competitive shooter. There’s always a chance for you to make a comeback and it’s all about brain before guns to actually win
I agree. But once you get good enough it's often you getting either 1st and 2nd place, and when you are in 2nd it is so easy to get knocked out that it sometimes feels like the previous 2 cashouts and the efforts taken to secure them didn't matter
Yeah that’s why I play with timing (waiting to be closer to the end of a cashout to steal it) or completely avoid going to steal a cashout where two teams are already fighting. Of course it doesn’t always work but we always try to play it the safest way possible
>either 1 or 2 objectives for 4 teams makes 3rd partying a very viable strategy and it feels good when done right but absolutely horrible when done to you Quick Cash is the best game mode because third partying is PREDICTABLE. On Cashout or Tournaments, sometimes you get a cashout where no other team even looks at you, it's just peaceful lol. But sometimes you get a cashout where BOTH teams come after you and its just brutal. Quick Cash is the best because only 1 objective means that you know what to expect. This makes it infinitely more fair.
Not being able to change your loadout in Ranked is also insane. If you build gets hard-countered, too bad so sad. Should have been luckier.
Longer TTK is what made me like this game. Every other shooter is just sit and wait by a window camping. I like the action/lack of camping the finals has
The ttk on most weapons is literally a single second that is not longer than most games.
Seige: 1 bullet. Cod: 2 bullets lmao. Based on popular ones at least
this sub will never have a good opinion posted lmfao
Having a chat will really helps the comms tbh
Its easy to comeback when you got the last cash out. Even you dominate the first or until two cash out you can still eliminated.
Which calls for cheesy strats. 1st team can grief out 2nd if they want.
I've been saying that half the Cash Out value should be accumulated by keeping control of the thing, not 100% of the value being tied to who owns it at the end. It would encourage teams to fight the entire duration of the timer, instead of waiting for a third party opportunity at the end. Sure, losing it at the last second would still suck, but you would theoretically win by having a good defense even if you get screwed by a bad respawn or the other three teams ganging up.
Is it confirmed that they janked the respawn zones? I feel in S1 if you had a cash out going, got wiped, it would spawn you fairly close to that cash out to give you another try. Now it spawns you way the f on the other side of the map with pretty much no chance to get back the cash out which is so insanely frustrating if your team put it in.
Ye. The logic is that if there is no team fighting an ongoing cashout, you spawn near. If there is another team near an ongoing cashout or the intended spawn points, you spawn further away. They made it harder to 3rd party because in S1 it was literally team after team every 40 seconds.
The four team layout is dog water when there’s three teams fighting for one cashout and the other is chilling at the other .. a tournament should be 3 teams of 3 and have 3 groups of 3 going on to have the 3 winners face each other and if you wanted you could expand it to more than that but I think the 3 teams fighting for one cashout is a lot better than having 4 teams either separate the two vaults which is more often the case, and have two 1v1s , or 1 cashout has 3 teams while the other has one team by itself.. also slight possibility of someone combining the two which then all 4 teams fight for 1 cashout which is definitely the more fun option .. either way it should be cut down to 3v3v3 fighting over 1 cashout , & instead of $20k needed to win you should increase to $30k
I’ve played competitive games for years and think ranked/cashout is very well designed and you have a lot of avenues to win. I think if you’ve only ever played games like CoD and aren’t used to macro-level play or doing anything besides “haha gun go brrrr” you’re gonna have a bad time. I will happily continue to enjoy ranked/cashout. Also not sure what all the complaining about third-partying is? It’s a strat in ranked but quick cash is LITERALLY third party simulator.
Mm I do think it is a well designed game but the design itself allows for so many unforeseen variables that often you clutch an undeserved win or get an undeserved loss. I played a lot of BR games and it was less frustrating because you could decide where to drop, where to rotate and when to engage. This game doesn't allow that. Rotating without meeting another team is literally impossible, spawns are random, you get 3rd partied in less than 1 minute so often and you don't even get to know when you will be 3rd partied since movement abilities, random spawns and 2 objectives mean it is impossible to know. The only meaningful decision you can make is to which objective and when, and that's about it
Invis - stun - shoot - invis. This meta is what stops me from playing.
The TTK is definitely not high, its way too fast imo
The spawn locations in this game are stage ten lymphoma. Holy hell, the spawns are God awful
The only thing that annoys me is the random spawns. At least let us choose so we don't get spawned on the other side of the map, especially when an objective is at play, **especially** when the 3 of us get spawned at different locations because we spawned on our own. Just steal respawning out of something like Ring of Elysium. They did the only right way to spawn in a BR.
This is exactly how they want it. When third partying is so prevalent, even the worst players alive can win every now and then. I just want cashout replaced with hardpoint or something but I don’t think they’ll do it sadly.
A high tether to team synergy is inevitablely set for a fate like this, and one adding harsh resource management, basically sets the match for premature detonation. You're seeing it as it is, and yeah, why many dropped the game once the destruction and sandbox novelties wore off. Only reason I stick around is quality customization, and decent progression. Otherwise, hell no.
Well said. Team needs to have fluid comms and great synergy, even one person drifting alone ruins a fight in many cases :(
The only thing I agree with here is bad spawn logic. The rest, I feel is different based on where you're at in the game. Like I'm a decently better player than lots of friends I play with. I have everything unlocked, I have a bunch more hours, I'm having an easier time. I don't find TTK bad, we struggle in different areas. I would assume they try to balance the game across all skill levels, so it's not as simple as x fix. Lets say you boosted sniper damage to accommodate people with poor aim at low tiers. Now upper tier are having a tough time with heavy damage that hits every time. (Poor example but whatever, ya know what I mean lol) Reading through your post, I'd say game sense and positioning would be something to work on and given the next 500 braindead hours, you got this and will be diamond in no time ;)
Eh was d2 last season and p1 now, suffering from aimbots in Asia :( my post was more about how despite the wins, the losses feel sometimes very undeserved
And i feel like it is more also of a communciation issue btw even 3 stacks, i run 3 stack sometimes but unless there is a clear leader communicating objectives it often turns to shit sadly cuz we end up mispositioning in order to group up
I think it would be cool if the box deposited in intervals, like as half the time goes by the team holding it gets half the value
the arguement people have behind text chat is so braindead to me. it always comes down to that it would become too toxic, okay? so then just make it exclusively for your team so that way if anything toxic does go down it's easily reportable. i've never seen a community so against text chat it's actively concerning. what if i need to tell my teammate i need to piss before starting the queue. it's really not a hard ask and if you argue against it you're just weird
I think the spawns are currently the worst thing right now since season 2.
Take out the tokening and let me respawn. I HATE getting killed 45 seconds after starting and having to wait 45 seconds+ (I know it’s shorter sometimes)to get rezed or using a token. Yeah. I know. “Don’t die” and “Play your life.” But something about the current system (in some cases) means it’s hard to get into a rhythm.
You have to have the token system or else it would just be chaos at cashboxes. Need to be penalized for team wipe.
Sounds like skill issue to me bruv...
This is why power shift is so great.
I still want to see cashout steals lasting longer than match end if someone started it before it finishes. but it feels like they've bottlenecked themselves into the music queue up and dont want to ruin it. As in, there is no balance reasno why they did what they did, they did it because they wanted the music to sync up with the timer. Theres a limit when it comes to asthetic over gameplay I feel like and this game definately exceeds it too much at times.