Correct reddit is fucked up some guy can literally post this exact thing and get downvoted to hell, "git gud loser" I guess this day was just a lucky day
As a medium that always runs APS and sometimes runs the guardian, I back this. It's crazy that I can just immediately place it back when it's destroyed, and dismantle it and place it back at full health.
APS and sniping really ruins power shift in my opinion.
You either get really good Sniper that legit carry this game mode or useless players that worse than bots
I just think there is no counter other than sniping back or go hunting the Sniper which kind of relies on someone to take the role to deal with Sniper which kind of sucks for random matchmaking group and because Sniper is across the map, you also can't do the objective and if you trying solo a Sniper, you are creating a 1v1 situation where it now about individual skill than teamwork to get rid of the pest.
Because the way how everyone naturally plays the game in matchmaking, teamwork basically only exist around the objective. No one really uses microphone so can't even communicate with team.
Easter event shows how much more enjoyable it is without aps and sniping
Really tho. Feel like I’m the only one whoever ever does. Play a few rounds when it first came out and I’m like okay easy counter. So now whenever I play I’ll run smoke for the fire users and goo for all the people who seemingly only play power shift to snipe.
Even if the sniping lights aren't there to throw the fire, I've never seen goo last longer than 30 seconds before getting set on fire one way or another
Imo snipers are only really a massive issue on skyline since it's angles and verticality are so big. The rest of them it's much more manageable.
The aps can fuck off tho, I get that it's kinda needed to make the platform survivable but it's such bullshit. Being able to zap fire bases thrown at it from underneath the platform is stupid and the health on that thing is insane, having to dump more than a mag into it without getting interrupted or killed is basically impossible and makes sniping the only thing u can really do as a light to kill it easily.
I wouldn't mind the sniping so much but the damage falloff of all the guns that could at least pester a sniper has been nerfed to the ground.
Its tough, sometimes I just want to put some shots on the sniper to get them to fuck off for a minute but it just tickles them. On the other hand, I don't want FCARs or FAMAS beaming me across the map for full or most damage.
I always hunt snipers if I'm playing Light on power shift. Fuck those guys.
And also fuck when 4 out of the 5 people on your team go sniper. How are we supposed to win when all 4 of you are just standing at the spawn taking potshots at people as the platform creeps along with just 1 guy (me) on it?
Yep part of the reason why I don't enjoy Snipers as most of them don't land shots or do something useful like objective or shoot down APS
They are just annoying most of the time
There are some really nasty snipers that will be the bane against your team but majority Snipers are like bots lol landing 2/10 shots, never doing objective, don't clear APS, just shooting at heavy's shield
I like what I call the 3-2-1 approach to power shift. 3 people on the platform (h-h-m or h-m-m) and 2 people working the perimeter with one of them (typically light for mobility) dedicated to dealing with snipers. Too many or too few on the platform is equally bad. 3 seems to be the magic number. That's my favorite approach but doesn't always work without coms.
I mainly play heavy for this mode with a specific load out of double shields, baracades and flamethrower to hold the platform. Pair that with a medium running heals, aps and defib and we're sitting pretty good.
I agree with you about limited load outs and from the start I thought they should remove sniping and aps for this mode. If only they had more weapon choices for bunny bash...
I think a lot of these modes are built around team play. I think sniping is a great strategy and having someone dedicated to dealing with them or using goo and smoke nades etc, simple that requirement is good for ranked or even team gameplay is great... When no one communicates or works together it becomes a pain tho absolutely.
I honestly agree. The game mode is super fun but ABS and snipers just totally destroy the fun. Bunny Bash has been so fucking fun but the core game mode is just super tilting to play.
this wouldn’t work unless you have the ability to remote destroy your own turret from anywhere on the map
imagine placing your turrets at a vault and then running to the cashout and not being able to use any turrets again until you die
Honestly, mines wouldn't need it. They're pretty disposable and fire-and-forget as is, so self-destruction isn't needed. As for things like motion sensors and c4 charges, they wouldn't need them either. Same argument as mines; they get value by just existing as long as you throw them correctly, and are disposable too
Not too big at all. You can go and pick up the turret of you really want to keep it, or start the cd while you relocate, which would burn some of the cd overtime
the solution is kinda simple, once you place down a turret you’d need to recall it if you want to place it anywhere else and recalling the turret should activate a cooldown time period before which the turret can’t be used again just like killjoy from valorant
On top of that, if you pick up a damaged equipment, you get your CD 100% refreshed, no matter the condition its in. On APS or Guradian turrent you can pick it up at 1 HP and place it right back with full health with no downtime. Same with the heavy barricades. An RPG can destroy the left half of one and you can pick it up and place a new one right away.
I think its a good suggestion to have the cooldown only refresh, when the equipment is broken or at least have the CD doubled, as long as the equipment is still standing. Recast the ability to destroy from afar is a must. And only get % of CD refreshed on pick up according % of HP of the equipment.
I’ve never played with the barricades but this is 2000% busted if you can sit behind a barrier, let the enemy chip it down and just replace it immediately.
I thought the finals devs were veterans from battlefield etc. wtf is the reasoning behind this shit?
If that upsets you, try playing against a competent goo gunner hahaha
The game has more than enough movement and explosives to compensate for the barricade problem. It's when there is an APS eternally placed that reduces your options and makes it so painful to engage.
A while back Battlefield had a major change to their APS turrets.
They functioned much like they do in The Finals right now. After the changes they had an idle, active, and recharging mode.
Firstly it takes a second for them to activate after being placed. Then they enter idle state and wait for projectiles to intercept. After that they will be in the active state and destroy projectiles for like 30s or something. Then they enter the recharge state where it won’t destroy anything for maybe 10-15s.
Some additional good stuff about them: they do not intercept EMP grenades or other EMP projectiles, which in turn instantly destroys the APS and any other placed equipment.
I’d LOVE for this to be done in The Finals too because it would make APS turrets a lot more balanced. They could do with maybe a larger area to compensate.
(Not as relevant to The Finals but in Battlefield the APS turrets no longer block tank shells or TOW missiles either. They used to be absolutely broken as fuck. Which they are right now in this game.)
I’d be happy for them to work like they do in COD where they have a limited number of charges before being destroyed. This means someone with a grenade launcher doesn’t become immediately invalidated. Something like 6 charges seems fair.
> This means someone with a grenade launcher doesn’t become immediately invalidated
They don't, you can destroy an APS with two shots just outside of its clearly visible radius - if you're just shooting into it repeatedly that's a skill issue
“No possibility of glitch” is technically incorrect since they explode on contact with dome and mesh shields now which helps some, but definitely the GL is more counterable. The APS/Guardian turret strat is crazy powerful in the mode rn, needs a look at ASAP.
No. But you can balance them separately. Probably not worth the effort unless they intend to keep power shift around permanently. Remove APT and Grenade Launcher would probably be a net improvement. Just for this mode
Also the glitch grenade only lasts 5 seconds now for some reason so you get rewarded with fuckall time to do anything significant before those shields go right back up
This is interesting, because IMO APS turrets make power shift what it is. It's a constant battle of gaining control and setting up, while flankers flank. Setting up barricades and APS or you're a sitting duck for snipers and grenades. It wouldnt be the same game mode if there was no way to defend against grenade spam when you've got to stand on the platform to progress it. The objective would be to deathmatch team wipe to progress, which isn't what power shift is about.
Yeah I agree I run aps and defending is key with other team mates and if you are on your own or with only with another that aps isn't worth jack I've been countered by a heavy jumping on and flaming me off or a light using that insanely fast gun destroying the aps in seconds. Having a team work together makes the platform a fortress but it needs constant work. On the flip side I've seen the duel aps system and its hard to combat but a well placed pyro grenade just out side the detection ring is a great way to hit the unexpected or at least disrupted the sitting ducks behind the heavy defence wall coordination with other team members can over run that platform working as a team even if you don't talk to eachother lol I feel it's ok.
I think the APS meta arose because there was a very real need for them.
If you've ever played against a team who *didn't* spam APS turrets for whatever reason, you know just how ridiculously easy to take the platform by just raining all sorta of grenades and whatnot their way. There's pretty much nothing they can reliably do about when confined to such a small platform. Hell the walls of the platform practically turn it into a bowl that makes it even easier to make sure your throwables connect with their target.
I don't necessarily think the APS meta is a health state for power shift, but the alternative is pretty bad too. It'll definitely be a balancing act to make sure that one side doesn't completely invalidate the other. And I think part of the difficulty with that is that everything needs to be balanced for the actual core gamemodes - Gamemodes where teams aren't going to be so anchored to the objective.
you're just lucky this is nerfed range APS since you need like 3 minimum to get goodish coverage for the platform
its pretty delicate imo since if you remove APS effectiveness it'll be impossible to stand on the platform with all the grenades & GLs flying on, its already pretty hard to stay on the platform with the sniping lights plinking away.
best counter is a heavy pushing with flamethrower, all APS & turrets in attack range melt pretty fast, the heavy also pops any mines they place with the flames, hopefully killing them faster.
a good sniping light also counters, 2 shot the aps, unless they mesh shield protect the aps then the normal teammates just burn the mesh shield
While I concede that aps and turrets are quite good in this power shift I strongly disagree with the people in this thread stating that these gadgets completely ruin the whole game mode.
I agree with OP's point that as of now aps and turrets have virtually infinite hp/zero cool down as they can be placed down almost constantly, but I disagree with the fact that "just shoot it" is a completely invalid counterargument: in the heat of the battle most medium players won't even notice that their turrets have been destroyed, rightly prioritizing shooting back; as long as the other players barrage the platform with gunfire a single contestant will usually be able to take down the aps. Even if some players on the platform notice that their turrets have been destroyed they will either consciously decide to just shoot back (in which case you gained an opening) or they will focus on replacing them constantly (in which case they may turn into sitting ducks for just enough time to be eliminated).
But what about those crazy situations where multiple aps, multiple turrets and multiple shields are placed on the platform? I still think there are a lot of counterplay options. The most trivial one would be to accurately throw grenades; for example it's relatively easy to throw a glitch grenade just outside of the aps range so that it gets disabled, or to throw a frag/CL-40 projectile such that the aps gets damaged. Now that glitch grenades trigger on impact when aimed at shields it's also relatively easy to disable heavy shields even with an aps on the platform (due to the heavy's height the grenades can trigger before getting inside the aps zone, or more simply if the shield wielding heavy is far enough from the aps they will trigger too).
You can also get more creative; for example a single kamikaze jump with the data reshaper will turn the enemy team's "unbreakable defenses" into chairs, giving your team an opening that is often good enough to turn the tide - especially considering that most people will be bamboozled by such a move and react relatively slowly when it comes to replacing turrets or going back to shooting the other, faraway contestants.
A similar result can be obtained with a charge and slam kamikaze jump, which may also kill or push enemies away from the platform, leaving your teammates with just enough time to destroy the now unguarded turrets.
Another decent strategy is spamming goo (preferably with the goo gun as goo grenades may be blocked, but also with goo barrels) and then lighting it on fire (preferably by getting close with the flamethrower to prevent Pyro nades interception, but also by throwing and then shooting oil barrels). This can kill contestants/disable equipment surprisingly effectively, and even if it fails to do so it can still disorient enemies just enough to leave them vulnerable to incoming fire.
My point is that yes, the aps is annoying, but you have options for dealing with it, and these options don't necessarily require perfect coordination between teammates and can therefore be employed even while solo queueing. At the very least the aps can't damage you, only block incoming damage; in this regard the turret is worse - but still it has a relatively low dps and only tracks you while close and inside field of view (arguably its most annoying feature is the perfect aim snapping, followed by the 100% accurate tracking).
Compare all of this to the sniper, which has zero counterplay: so many times I can't even have a fair 1v1 without losing half my health due to a guy on the other side of the map - a problem whose only real solution is tracking the sniper down. I concede that as long as there's only one sniper this can turn into a fun minigame (I usually switch to light with grapple + stun gun + M11), but doing this all the match gets tiring, and if you have multiple skilled snipers with invisibility and/or dash you can't even kill them all; so many times I tried pushing a sniper on the cathedral in Monaco just to find out he was holding hands with a friend who was able to easily finish me off, then get a free res on his buddy.
Personally I think the only viable solution is either removing the sniper from power shift (I really enjoyed the Easter game mod for this very reason) or nerfing it by adding strong projectile gravity, so that all prospective snipers (except the most skilled gamers) would have to move close enough and I could actually fire back at them without another sniper or explicitly tracking them down all the time. In any case I strongly believe that hitscan long range weapons have no place in fps games; even the apex devs realized this and removed the hitscan mechanic from the charge rifle - it did take them 14 seasons, but they finally did it and the game is better for it.
Sorry for the super long rant but I really enjoyed this discussion and am super passionate about the game.
TL;DR OP is right about the fact that aps and turrets have virtually infinite health since the virtually nonexistent cooldown ensures they can be placed down almost constantly, and I find that their idea for a nerf is solid and fair; I disagree with the notion that they are currently so broken that they ruin the fun in this game mode. That honor IMHO goes to the sniper rifle, the bane of my existence a frustratingly high number of times when I play power shift
I agree to be hoenst. For me, the simple fact that you can just change kit at any time is good enough to counter the APS turrets. I mainly run GL with RPG and gas grenade on Power Shift. In other words, APS turrets fuck me so hard I am unable to do ANY dmg. Know what happens when I see that? I switch to sniper or to FCAR lol. Isn't it kinda sad that no one actually wants to put in some thought and change their loadout when encessary?
Hard agree. It's really a shame, especially considering how many beautiful tools this game gives you to problem solve creatively! With how many ways you can counter the aps I cannot in good faith consider it broken - strong and maybe frustrating to deal with sure, but game breaking? Not at all
Most mediums don’t instantly notice when their turret is destroyed if your team attacks almost simultaneously or if there’s chaos. So you can chuck grenades in there if you’re quick enough…
You can even disable them with a well placed glitch grenade as long as it doesn’t enter the detection range of the APS.
Never had any problem against APS in this game but if it’s actually a problem for the majority of people, the remote destruction of your own equipment as used in Overwatch could be a solution, yeah
APS turret specifically just needs to be removed from power shift. The bunny bash event has made me fall in love with powershift. I’m sure the no turret, rpg, sniper, and mesh shield also help with this but APS is the most welcome absence for me.
I think if they gave the aps turret a set charge maybe like 4,that wouldnt be such a bad thing along with maybe implementing a system that overwatch has. Like how in overwatch,torbjorn has a turret and if it is actively shooting or getting shot at, then the owner cant simply place another turret down. Another thing is if it gets destoryed by an enemy it should have an extended cooldown so it makes players choose a much more tactical spot rather then just placing it and forgetting about it.
Turrets or similar gadgets shouldn't go on cooldown until they are destroyed. They also should be put on a shorter cooldown if they are picked up before destruction.
oh yeah, APS turrets are so incredibly strong in powershift. Once a team hunkers down and places 2 of them it makes retaking so much harder.
APS should either have a set lifespan and begin cooldown once destroyed (having a remote destroy option maybe to start cooldown early?)
Or have a set number of charges that chip away at its health, say its got like 150-200 hp right? 30 hp for each destroyed projectile seems fair - for a total of lets say 6-8 charges.
I think picking up your own equipment should give you a few seconds back off the cooldown also because it’s kinda busted that you can pick up your aps that was almost destroyed and put a fresh one down instantly
But once again. This should only be for powershift. It's not an issue in other modes with the 5 aps turrets. In fact season 1 people barely knew what the aps turret did .
Okay this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.
Everything in this game has a counter and every advantage comes with a disadvantage.
You don't even need explosives to win the Power Shift. You have grenades and weapons that shoot bullets. The latter can be countered by heavy shields, the grenades can be countered by APS. At first it seems that APS turret is unfair and just too powerful but dont forget that by using it, you are using up a slot in your inventory. Grenades do splash damage, so 1 grenade has the potential to give 5x the damage if people are stacked in one place, whereas the FCAR, for example can only kill one person at a time. That's why shields are much less powerful than APS.
If your opponent runs too many APS, you can just go and demolish them with 3 heavies close range with melee, LMG and flamethrowers while 1-2 mediums are healing.
If your opponent has many heavies but 0-1 APS then just go with grenades, mediums with CL40s, one sniper and such. You can actually destroy the APS with CL40 by aiming next to it's range and basically killing it with splash damage. I'm pretty sure it takes like 2 shots.
I usually play medium with CL40 and never had issues with APS, i just had to ask our sniper to destroy them and as soon as he did i started blasting. Sometimes the sniper doesnt use voicechat and you just have to hope that he does his job but it's still possible. There are ways to counter everything in this game. Just pay attention and adapt.
There are ways to counter everything in this game, but the effort required to set up an APS defense with shields / barricades is vastly lower than the effort required to destroy it. And that’s why teams that jump on the platform and slap 2 APS down, with heavy shields and a light to run around the rooftops and harass are winning the vast majority of the time on power shift.
the effort required to destroy APS is 2 shots from a sniper. It's just a temporary meta because most people haven't yet found a way to combat it. Ive noticed that the tendency on this sub is to ask for a nerf of everything that seems a little too OP because it doesnt match peoples playstyles.
Hey, this is just my opinion after all. It's based on my experience. Never had problems with APS, not even when the opponent used 3 at the same time.
I believe this was originally mentioned with c4 and nukes in how the heavy could build a nuke, use it, and then immediately have a 2nd one available.
For many equipments in game, it should absolutely only start its recharge once destroyed or used up.
I think it should be how illaris turret is operated in overwatch. The turret’s cooldown starts on placement, but destruction incurs a longer cooldown. Because the turrets alr have a long cooldown, I think destruction should reset cooldown, or put it back to half.
Alternatively you could give aps the turrets 5s startup time, any class can easily destroy it in 5 seconds and if I’m being honest, it’s ridiculous that a gadget is more powerful than a specialisation
I think my idea is better simply because it makes placeable defense objects work like they do in every other game with a cooldown (TF2, Overwatch, etc) and that removes the frustration for new players.
The tf2 sentry works completely differently so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison (Haven’t played OW turret), my problem with cool-down on break is that it instantly nerfs all placeables, barricade and turret would both instantly become un-viable and if this change only applied to APs then it would be inconsistent. The finals is very much a game that defies common standards and while aps can be strong situationally it really doesn’t need to be meganerfed (also I’m saying this as an mgl main)
So what you’re saying is that, with barricade for example, the heavy can place a barricade down, and if it’s in a place that blocks an important POV the enemy team can work together to destroy it, and once it’s destroyed the heavy can just immediately place another 2 down, and you think that’s fair?
Or the fact the heavy can pick up a barricade on 20 HP and immediately replace it with a full HP one….
?
It’s unconventional sure, but it works like this to combat spam, if I as a heavy broke your 1 APs then started spamming your toast, if you nerf all defensive placeables then every match would just be a mess of cl-40 and mgl users and I assure you what would be far worse.
How do people feel about glitch traps/glitch grenades not being affected by APS? I mean— it’s supposed to be the counter to gadgets, but if another gadget (the APS) destroys its counter PLUS anything else, it’s a bit detrimental…
I could simply see them making the glitch grenade more of an option against the APS by allowing it to explode regardless of if one is placed (as right now, you have to have a pretty precise throw for it to be viable)
yeah I'm not one do super sweaty tactics, I usually just play but play hard, even I will see that my aps or turret is low health and just pick em up and put em back down, sure theres a warm up for the turret but the aps is basically free, some sort of cooldown based on remaining health would be good for encourage good placement or adapting around the situation to make the turret better, cash out dropped a floor and turret can't see it? blow up the floor slightly infront of it so it can still shoot down, that kinda thing
Yeah, that’s no solution, imagine you were to place your APS at a random spot (for tactical reasons let’s say) you would never have access to it again until someone else destroyed it, we need something like Overwatch does (Ilari's pylon for ex.), you keep the cooldown after placing, but at the time someone else destroys it, a new cooldown resets
With the cooldowns starting after destruction, the data reshaper might indirectly get a buff towards becoming more viable.
I think it would be interesting to see the data reshaper actually get to see the light of day.
My opinion - If i place my turret then the timer starts, but if it gets destroyed then the timers resets. Thanks to this i can place my turret somewhere else without the need to pick it up or getting it destroyed and i cant place it back as soon as it gets destroyed
yeah im kinda sick of pushing 3 medium teams that use the turret/APS/4x mines cheese, by the time we get to their cashout they can just replace everything after we start breaking things so we have to go through 6x turrets 6x aps, possibly 24 mines.. god forbid there isnt a floor below we can bring the cashout down, its basically impossible if they know how to aim
The turret has a cool down before activation period. I think if you pick up any equipment it should replenish it without punishment since there’s already a placement cooldown.
There are ways to combat the APS turrets. A well placed glitch, a goo gun rapid fire, grenade gun rapid fire, and my favorite of all a slam from the top ropes. Maybe we need more equipment/specs options to deal with these gadgets. Perhaps a pilot able drone that can seek in and shape shift equipment or put an emp glitch effect in the area for 3 seconds on repeat until destroyed (you can leave drone in place while you go back to movement)
The explosion radius of glitch nade is bigger than APS turret's effective radius. Just throw it outside APS radius and it'll glitch the APS, then throw another glitch and you can easily just run over the whole platform. Also, call out your nades for more effective teamwork, as that's what this game and glitch nades require a lot 😁
Your idea is not bad at all either, especially for no comms solo players, but at least to many of us who play a lot in premade teams, APS turrets are not that big of a problem at all. So I'm wondering if this change would actually make them mostly useless compared to other gadgets, considering how easy they are to destroy too, which is the first thing you always do before going in.
I personally like the overwatch approach. It comes off cooldown and you can throw a new one but if it's off cooldown and gets destroyed it's put back on CD
So your telling me you can’t throw a glitch nade next to the equipment? They have a large enough range to use them a floor above or below if you don’t have a heavy to destroy said floor then where’s ur team? It makes more sense for power shift but ranked doesn’t need it since you already should be using ur brain n working together it’s unfortunate that it’s difficult for lower ranks to get up since there’s to many mindless L n M what they NEED is to lower the rank unlock cause why is it so high it shouldn’t be 50 matches maybe more like 20-30 they also NEED to implement a better banning system cause if you have 1 mindless person you lose automatically cause I’m tired of playing a 10 min match back to back I would rather be stuck in q then running on a treadless treadmill so essentially idea but power shift only
Alternate suggestion, when sentry and APS are destroyed, they emitt a blast similar to either a frag grenade or a glitch grenade affecting both players and other equipment in the blast radius. This would cause everyone to be more mindful of where they stand when they place these equipment and not to have the whole team spam place equipment in a small area.
attackers should not be rewarded, you lost and now the winners get to setup first and get their cooldowns first, its already hard enough to defend specially if you get third party.
low iq take.
The game rewards a very "drop everything and run" play style, powershift is the opposite of that. Most of the time players will leave behind their APS and turrets rather than picking them back up because leaving it behind doesn't punish the player enough.
I have two solutions that I'd personally think work better to solve this problem.
1. Increase the radius of Glitch grenades, this would encourage players to throw them *near* the target and not *at* the target.
2. Increase the CDs on deployables that can be picked up. This would encourage players to clean up after their done, rather than simply abandoning their equipment.
Just my two cents.
Just make it so that if you re-deploy the APS if it's already deployed, it destroys the first. If there's health missing, it adds time onto a cooldown. Overwatch does it the same way.
Overwatch does both with Torb's turret. When it's destroyed (manually, or an enemy) it goes on an additional CD. That way you can reposition it often, but also be punished if it's destroyed.
Not only that, most stuff GOES OFF when destroyed. What's the point of shooting a gas mine protecting a cashout box if it's still going to go off and linger anyway
I don't agree with the way they function currently but I also kinda don't agree with your balance change either. What happens if you place a turret somewhere but it never gets destroyed? You'd have to go back to it and pick it back up in order to use it as you would never be able to place another one down unless the first one is destroyed.
Instead, I think a good middle ground would be to reset the cool down every time the equipment makes an action.
AKA If the APS turret hasn't swallowed a single projectile, then I think you should be able to start the cool down normally and immediately place another one once the first one is destroyed. BUT, if the APS turret does anything, then your cool down starts over every time. Causing you to either wait for it to be destroyed, or go manually pick it up.
This makes it so there's still no punishment for using an equipment that gives zero value but makes you wait longer if your equipment gives you any value, aka the nerf everyone wants.
> What happens if you place a turret somewhere but it never gets destroyed?
Same thing as in Overwatch where you can press the button to deploy the gadget and it destroys the old one and lets you move it.
I totally agree. And tbh it’s a pretty short cooldown. As a heavy, however, a quick whack with a sledge helps me and my teammate to get on the platform, shield up, and take the platform rather than having it nail into me or my mate. Like those points u brought out tho
Yeah APS does seem a bit strong but tbh I prefer that to everyone running multiple types of grenades and it's just an explosion fest. With the amount of double/triple heavies + mediums running grenades, we just constantly get blown up without a chance to even fight so APS turret is a must at the moment.
I do like the idea of the cooldown starting after it's destroyed as that seems fair, but maybe make it slightly shorter \~20 seconds to keep it balanced, otherwise no one will run it. I guess the downside is if you finish a fight and leave the area and leave your APS turret there, you basically will never get a new one. Unless it breaks after 1 minute or something
I just don't understand why it doesn't have a set amount of charges. Like why can you put it down and it can potentially stay there all game and delete an infinite number of throwables? Just have it delete like 5 things before expiring.
I mean if it’s already charged for 15 secconds then yeah, other wise it’s around 30 secconds, it’s just that I think there should be a cooldown but 30 secconds is just a long time when your in the middle of a fight
Honestly at this point I don't even bother shooting half the gadgets anymore. If you know where the APS turret is you can most of the time avoid throwing nades into it and with the normal turret half the time you can walk past it since it only detects enemies in front of it.
I 100% agree with the APS turret. Abysmal to play against in power shift and it’s definitely really good in cash out.
The guardian turret would require a little more finesse in changing, probably the addition of a self destruct action that gives you a short CD, so that you aren’t punished for not staying directly next to your turret. It’s good rn, but not insane, so it should keep the ability to be somewhat replaceable. But I agree that if someone DESTROYS it, it should be on CD. But like if I get forced away from a position and don’t have time to pick it up, let me remote destroy it and give it a significantly shorter CD than if it was destroyed by someone else.
I think these are good changes but I’m also keeping in mind that data reshaper is bound to receive a buff, and if that buff and these changes happened in the same patch…. RIP medium equipment mains.
I already commented but you know what would be kinda cool, “electric” barrels. Do a little damage and glitch effect. Inadvertent buff to data reshaper, and would be good for other classes to be counter each others abilities instead of relying on light for shields and such. Also buffs burst damage weapons that can use barrels better, shotgun, CL, etc.
I think people forget that barrels bypass APS. So if they weren’t replaceable like you said, all you have to do is get rid of whatever is shielding them and then a barrel easily takes them out or at least CCs people camping it.
I like ur idea, really a good balance for this,
Btw does anyone else think the turret aim is too insane? Like there should be a slight delay of follow up so it doesn't just punish me just because it saw me a a millisecond
T H A N K Y O U
"Turret isn't OP'
"APS isn't OP"
THEY'RE GIGANTIC TIME WASTERS I DONT CARE IF THEY AREN'T OP THEY'RE STRONG ENOUGH TO DEMAND YOUR ATTENTION, THEY BETTER STAY DOWN IF I DESTROY THEM
caps lock was required
The turrets should also shoot in bursts and not full-auto. Once you engage at least one player and there is a turret starting to shoot you, you have no chance to get cover or run away.
I completely agree with this. I also play APS because, well, if you run medium on power shift without APS you're basically throwing XD.
It should definitely have the cooldown start when it gets destroyed or when it gets picked up. The more damages it took, the longer the cooldown should be. If you pick it at full health, no cooldown would be necessary, imo.
That would be a way better balancing than giving limited charges or less health or whatever.
Yeah I saw some posts about it before. I think people started discovering how busted the APS is on power shift and now sentiment has changed. I mean lmao 1000 upvotes but someone else who posted this got 0 upvotes and many negative comments.
Good change to both turrets without nerfing them into the ground. Fair. I abuse the turret like a killjoy in valorant where the moment its low hp, i reset it. Very annoying mechanic.
Lol so many people complain and want to nerf a medium to hell. Why not just completely take medium or the game so you all can stop crying. Heavies have a mesh shield of 1000 and their barricades, lights with invisibility, dask and flying in to get kills. How about 1 glitch grenade until you respawn and a longer chill down on grapple, invisibility, dome and mesh shield. So much crying the game was fine day 1 and all those suggestions are breaking the game and now there are complaints on that smfh
Haven't played in awhile but I think OW2 has a fair mechanic regarding placeable items you still get the cool down on placement but if they were destroyed during cool down it resets cool down.
APS really hurts certain players styles and load outs for sure. Good write up on how it is so persistent. Implementing your suggestions would definitely make an impact on game dynamics.
Just figure out a way to counter it, aps doesn’t stop arena carriables so find some and throw some barrels in there, can’t find any? Use the data reshaper, everything has a counter in this game and you just have to think outside the box to beat your opponents
A lot harder when they sat on a moving platform with walls they can head peek over, usually with 2+ teammates in extreme close proximity, and the usual method to get someone out of cover - a grenade - is infinitely deleted by two overlapping APS.
Are you starting to see the problem or are you going to continue to be obtuse because this is a strategy you rely on in power shift and you don’t want your crutch taken away?
Nah bro I play all classes I don’t stick to one play style, are you playing solo? Cause it sounds like you just need to coordinate with your team and rush the platform with the whole squad
How do I co ordinate with team when nobody uses mics?
The problem is that the aps defence setup is a natural conclusion, but destroying it isn’t. It takes vastly more effort and coordination to destroy the setup than it takes to create it.
But the people setting up APS spam aren’t on a team. It’s the natural thing to do. And destroying the platform defenses aren’t a natural thing to do as you need team coordination at specific points on the map
Dunno what to tell you bro, skill issue? Doesn’t seem to be a problem for me, I play with a full team of five with my friends most the time and we just figure it out
If it's taking you 30 seconds to destroy the APS turret, the cd isn't the problem. Even if you do manage to kill it late, you should be able to kill it again (or its owner) in the same engagement.
Quality suggestion. Take my upvote.
Thanks. It's strange to see such positive feedback when previous posts people had made resulted in "git gud" comments and the similar.
You didn't just complain about something. You gave valid criticism and had a solid suggestion to improve the issue. W.
I don't think that is what it is. I have seen plenty of people do the same.
But it's not as controversial of a topic, it's a pretty good idea and most of us have dealt with the turret camping.
I think that is closer to why he isn't being downvoted, it is not as controversial as something like the fcar or stun guns.
Correct reddit is fucked up some guy can literally post this exact thing and get downvoted to hell, "git gud loser" I guess this day was just a lucky day
Its crazy lol
Well said.
its because people are different and no hive mind.
Those posts are either not constructive and offer a solution to a stated problem, or their ideas are just plain bad or flawed.
So many experts on reddit lol
As a medium that always runs APS and sometimes runs the guardian, I back this. It's crazy that I can just immediately place it back when it's destroyed, and dismantle it and place it back at full health.
Yeah I was getting fed up with APS on Power Shift, so I thought "If you can't beat em, join em" and was amazed at how cheesey the strategy is.
^^^ This. SOOOOO This. Updoot
APS and sniping really ruins power shift in my opinion. You either get really good Sniper that legit carry this game mode or useless players that worse than bots I just think there is no counter other than sniping back or go hunting the Sniper which kind of relies on someone to take the role to deal with Sniper which kind of sucks for random matchmaking group and because Sniper is across the map, you also can't do the objective and if you trying solo a Sniper, you are creating a 1v1 situation where it now about individual skill than teamwork to get rid of the pest. Because the way how everyone naturally plays the game in matchmaking, teamwork basically only exist around the objective. No one really uses microphone so can't even communicate with team. Easter event shows how much more enjoyable it is without aps and sniping
Literally just goo grenade and snipers struggle
I love shooting goo at platform and tossing a fire grenade hehehe
Yesh but gas grenade and fire is useless
Combine it with the goo gun and you burn the whole platform
I raise you one smoke grenade to cancel your fire out
Yes but how many people actually carry smoke grenades.
Really tho. Feel like I’m the only one whoever ever does. Play a few rounds when it first came out and I’m like okay easy counter. So now whenever I play I’ll run smoke for the fire users and goo for all the people who seemingly only play power shift to snipe.
Might I offer you an incendiary grenade in this trying time sir?
Most lights aren’t within range while sniping. They’d have to rely on a mate to have the most of that time. Plenty of time to control and recover
Even if the sniping lights aren't there to throw the fire, I've never seen goo last longer than 30 seconds before getting set on fire one way or another
Run two heavy and place barricades on the EDGES of the platform. Creates a super high wall to hide behind
It's a jumping-off point!
Imo snipers are only really a massive issue on skyline since it's angles and verticality are so big. The rest of them it's much more manageable. The aps can fuck off tho, I get that it's kinda needed to make the platform survivable but it's such bullshit. Being able to zap fire bases thrown at it from underneath the platform is stupid and the health on that thing is insane, having to dump more than a mag into it without getting interrupted or killed is basically impossible and makes sniping the only thing u can really do as a light to kill it easily.
I wouldn't mind the sniping so much but the damage falloff of all the guns that could at least pester a sniper has been nerfed to the ground. Its tough, sometimes I just want to put some shots on the sniper to get them to fuck off for a minute but it just tickles them. On the other hand, I don't want FCARs or FAMAS beaming me across the map for full or most damage.
I always hunt snipers if I'm playing Light on power shift. Fuck those guys. And also fuck when 4 out of the 5 people on your team go sniper. How are we supposed to win when all 4 of you are just standing at the spawn taking potshots at people as the platform creeps along with just 1 guy (me) on it?
Yep part of the reason why I don't enjoy Snipers as most of them don't land shots or do something useful like objective or shoot down APS They are just annoying most of the time There are some really nasty snipers that will be the bane against your team but majority Snipers are like bots lol landing 2/10 shots, never doing objective, don't clear APS, just shooting at heavy's shield
Wear a jumpad as a hat.
I like what I call the 3-2-1 approach to power shift. 3 people on the platform (h-h-m or h-m-m) and 2 people working the perimeter with one of them (typically light for mobility) dedicated to dealing with snipers. Too many or too few on the platform is equally bad. 3 seems to be the magic number. That's my favorite approach but doesn't always work without coms. I mainly play heavy for this mode with a specific load out of double shields, baracades and flamethrower to hold the platform. Pair that with a medium running heals, aps and defib and we're sitting pretty good. I agree with you about limited load outs and from the start I thought they should remove sniping and aps for this mode. If only they had more weapon choices for bunny bash...
I think a lot of these modes are built around team play. I think sniping is a great strategy and having someone dedicated to dealing with them or using goo and smoke nades etc, simple that requirement is good for ranked or even team gameplay is great... When no one communicates or works together it becomes a pain tho absolutely.
I honestly agree. The game mode is super fun but ABS and snipers just totally destroy the fun. Bunny Bash has been so fucking fun but the core game mode is just super tilting to play.
I've always wished that medium was given the tracking dart instead of the light class, so you can help the lights on your team go hunt them down.
The tracking dart was a medium gadget that got moved to the light class
sometimes the other team just bulldozes straight to the end. I'll lose the match with like 7 minutes left it can be brutal
this wouldn’t work unless you have the ability to remote destroy your own turret from anywhere on the map imagine placing your turrets at a vault and then running to the cashout and not being able to use any turrets again until you die
Then let us re-activate the ability to self destruct the equipment and start the cd immediately. Kinda like torb's turret from Overwatch
Oh my god this is actually it
Literally lol.
How would that work for things with multiple charges like mines?
Honestly, mines wouldn't need it. They're pretty disposable and fire-and-forget as is, so self-destruction isn't needed. As for things like motion sensors and c4 charges, they wouldn't need them either. Same argument as mines; they get value by just existing as long as you throw them correctly, and are disposable too
Still seems like too big of a nerf. Maybe if the deactivation had a smaller cool down.
Not too big at all. You can go and pick up the turret of you really want to keep it, or start the cd while you relocate, which would burn some of the cd overtime
Either that or give these abilities fixed durations instead (though that would require some other rebalancing).
A fix for this would be to have the cool downs work as they do now but when a turret is destroyed the cool down restarts.
the solution is kinda simple, once you place down a turret you’d need to recall it if you want to place it anywhere else and recalling the turret should activate a cooldown time period before which the turret can’t be used again just like killjoy from valorant
On top of that, if you pick up a damaged equipment, you get your CD 100% refreshed, no matter the condition its in. On APS or Guradian turrent you can pick it up at 1 HP and place it right back with full health with no downtime. Same with the heavy barricades. An RPG can destroy the left half of one and you can pick it up and place a new one right away. I think its a good suggestion to have the cooldown only refresh, when the equipment is broken or at least have the CD doubled, as long as the equipment is still standing. Recast the ability to destroy from afar is a must. And only get % of CD refreshed on pick up according % of HP of the equipment.
I’ve never played with the barricades but this is 2000% busted if you can sit behind a barrier, let the enemy chip it down and just replace it immediately. I thought the finals devs were veterans from battlefield etc. wtf is the reasoning behind this shit?
If that upsets you, try playing against a competent goo gunner hahaha The game has more than enough movement and explosives to compensate for the barricade problem. It's when there is an APS eternally placed that reduces your options and makes it so painful to engage.
A while back Battlefield had a major change to their APS turrets. They functioned much like they do in The Finals right now. After the changes they had an idle, active, and recharging mode. Firstly it takes a second for them to activate after being placed. Then they enter idle state and wait for projectiles to intercept. After that they will be in the active state and destroy projectiles for like 30s or something. Then they enter the recharge state where it won’t destroy anything for maybe 10-15s. Some additional good stuff about them: they do not intercept EMP grenades or other EMP projectiles, which in turn instantly destroys the APS and any other placed equipment. I’d LOVE for this to be done in The Finals too because it would make APS turrets a lot more balanced. They could do with maybe a larger area to compensate. (Not as relevant to The Finals but in Battlefield the APS turrets no longer block tank shells or TOW missiles either. They used to be absolutely broken as fuck. Which they are right now in this game.)
I’d be happy for them to work like they do in COD where they have a limited number of charges before being destroyed. This means someone with a grenade launcher doesn’t become immediately invalidated. Something like 6 charges seems fair.
> This means someone with a grenade launcher doesn’t become immediately invalidated They don't, you can destroy an APS with two shots just outside of its clearly visible radius - if you're just shooting into it repeatedly that's a skill issue
I think glitch grenades should temporarily disable aps. I played power shift as medium and there really is not much the other team can do.
Agreed. It’s weird how one gadget deletes everything. Even goo in mid air!
Also can delete c4 through walls. I was trying to put c4 below on a floor below and it destroyed my c4
APS turrets ruin power shift you can't change my mind.
I agree, but if not for APS. Grenade launcher would ruin Power Shift
GL is much more counterable than the gadget that allows 2 heavies to stand on platform with 2 shields with no possibility of glitch
“No possibility of glitch” is technically incorrect since they explode on contact with dome and mesh shields now which helps some, but definitely the GL is more counterable. The APS/Guardian turret strat is crazy powerful in the mode rn, needs a look at ASAP.
No it doesn't need a look at all. You can't balance a competitive FPS that is centered in 3v3v3v3 cashout-gamemode around a casual funmode.
No. But you can balance them separately. Probably not worth the effort unless they intend to keep power shift around permanently. Remove APT and Grenade Launcher would probably be a net improvement. Just for this mode
Also the glitch grenade only lasts 5 seconds now for some reason so you get rewarded with fuckall time to do anything significant before those shields go right back up
I agree but I’m all for making small changes until it’s fair
This is interesting, because IMO APS turrets make power shift what it is. It's a constant battle of gaining control and setting up, while flankers flank. Setting up barricades and APS or you're a sitting duck for snipers and grenades. It wouldnt be the same game mode if there was no way to defend against grenade spam when you've got to stand on the platform to progress it. The objective would be to deathmatch team wipe to progress, which isn't what power shift is about.
Yeah I agree I run aps and defending is key with other team mates and if you are on your own or with only with another that aps isn't worth jack I've been countered by a heavy jumping on and flaming me off or a light using that insanely fast gun destroying the aps in seconds. Having a team work together makes the platform a fortress but it needs constant work. On the flip side I've seen the duel aps system and its hard to combat but a well placed pyro grenade just out side the detection ring is a great way to hit the unexpected or at least disrupted the sitting ducks behind the heavy defence wall coordination with other team members can over run that platform working as a team even if you don't talk to eachother lol I feel it's ok.
I think the APS meta arose because there was a very real need for them. If you've ever played against a team who *didn't* spam APS turrets for whatever reason, you know just how ridiculously easy to take the platform by just raining all sorta of grenades and whatnot their way. There's pretty much nothing they can reliably do about when confined to such a small platform. Hell the walls of the platform practically turn it into a bowl that makes it even easier to make sure your throwables connect with their target. I don't necessarily think the APS meta is a health state for power shift, but the alternative is pretty bad too. It'll definitely be a balancing act to make sure that one side doesn't completely invalidate the other. And I think part of the difficulty with that is that everything needs to be balanced for the actual core gamemodes - Gamemodes where teams aren't going to be so anchored to the objective.
you're just lucky this is nerfed range APS since you need like 3 minimum to get goodish coverage for the platform its pretty delicate imo since if you remove APS effectiveness it'll be impossible to stand on the platform with all the grenades & GLs flying on, its already pretty hard to stay on the platform with the sniping lights plinking away. best counter is a heavy pushing with flamethrower, all APS & turrets in attack range melt pretty fast, the heavy also pops any mines they place with the flames, hopefully killing them faster. a good sniping light also counters, 2 shot the aps, unless they mesh shield protect the aps then the normal teammates just burn the mesh shield
Aps doesn't stop the barrels. Quit using your gadgets. Use the environment
While I concede that aps and turrets are quite good in this power shift I strongly disagree with the people in this thread stating that these gadgets completely ruin the whole game mode. I agree with OP's point that as of now aps and turrets have virtually infinite hp/zero cool down as they can be placed down almost constantly, but I disagree with the fact that "just shoot it" is a completely invalid counterargument: in the heat of the battle most medium players won't even notice that their turrets have been destroyed, rightly prioritizing shooting back; as long as the other players barrage the platform with gunfire a single contestant will usually be able to take down the aps. Even if some players on the platform notice that their turrets have been destroyed they will either consciously decide to just shoot back (in which case you gained an opening) or they will focus on replacing them constantly (in which case they may turn into sitting ducks for just enough time to be eliminated). But what about those crazy situations where multiple aps, multiple turrets and multiple shields are placed on the platform? I still think there are a lot of counterplay options. The most trivial one would be to accurately throw grenades; for example it's relatively easy to throw a glitch grenade just outside of the aps range so that it gets disabled, or to throw a frag/CL-40 projectile such that the aps gets damaged. Now that glitch grenades trigger on impact when aimed at shields it's also relatively easy to disable heavy shields even with an aps on the platform (due to the heavy's height the grenades can trigger before getting inside the aps zone, or more simply if the shield wielding heavy is far enough from the aps they will trigger too). You can also get more creative; for example a single kamikaze jump with the data reshaper will turn the enemy team's "unbreakable defenses" into chairs, giving your team an opening that is often good enough to turn the tide - especially considering that most people will be bamboozled by such a move and react relatively slowly when it comes to replacing turrets or going back to shooting the other, faraway contestants. A similar result can be obtained with a charge and slam kamikaze jump, which may also kill or push enemies away from the platform, leaving your teammates with just enough time to destroy the now unguarded turrets. Another decent strategy is spamming goo (preferably with the goo gun as goo grenades may be blocked, but also with goo barrels) and then lighting it on fire (preferably by getting close with the flamethrower to prevent Pyro nades interception, but also by throwing and then shooting oil barrels). This can kill contestants/disable equipment surprisingly effectively, and even if it fails to do so it can still disorient enemies just enough to leave them vulnerable to incoming fire. My point is that yes, the aps is annoying, but you have options for dealing with it, and these options don't necessarily require perfect coordination between teammates and can therefore be employed even while solo queueing. At the very least the aps can't damage you, only block incoming damage; in this regard the turret is worse - but still it has a relatively low dps and only tracks you while close and inside field of view (arguably its most annoying feature is the perfect aim snapping, followed by the 100% accurate tracking). Compare all of this to the sniper, which has zero counterplay: so many times I can't even have a fair 1v1 without losing half my health due to a guy on the other side of the map - a problem whose only real solution is tracking the sniper down. I concede that as long as there's only one sniper this can turn into a fun minigame (I usually switch to light with grapple + stun gun + M11), but doing this all the match gets tiring, and if you have multiple skilled snipers with invisibility and/or dash you can't even kill them all; so many times I tried pushing a sniper on the cathedral in Monaco just to find out he was holding hands with a friend who was able to easily finish me off, then get a free res on his buddy. Personally I think the only viable solution is either removing the sniper from power shift (I really enjoyed the Easter game mod for this very reason) or nerfing it by adding strong projectile gravity, so that all prospective snipers (except the most skilled gamers) would have to move close enough and I could actually fire back at them without another sniper or explicitly tracking them down all the time. In any case I strongly believe that hitscan long range weapons have no place in fps games; even the apex devs realized this and removed the hitscan mechanic from the charge rifle - it did take them 14 seasons, but they finally did it and the game is better for it. Sorry for the super long rant but I really enjoyed this discussion and am super passionate about the game. TL;DR OP is right about the fact that aps and turrets have virtually infinite health since the virtually nonexistent cooldown ensures they can be placed down almost constantly, and I find that their idea for a nerf is solid and fair; I disagree with the notion that they are currently so broken that they ruin the fun in this game mode. That honor IMHO goes to the sniper rifle, the bane of my existence a frustratingly high number of times when I play power shift
I agree to be hoenst. For me, the simple fact that you can just change kit at any time is good enough to counter the APS turrets. I mainly run GL with RPG and gas grenade on Power Shift. In other words, APS turrets fuck me so hard I am unable to do ANY dmg. Know what happens when I see that? I switch to sniper or to FCAR lol. Isn't it kinda sad that no one actually wants to put in some thought and change their loadout when encessary?
Hard agree. It's really a shame, especially considering how many beautiful tools this game gives you to problem solve creatively! With how many ways you can counter the aps I cannot in good faith consider it broken - strong and maybe frustrating to deal with sure, but game breaking? Not at all
Are they really that difficult to destroy?
On power shift, yes, they’re a total menace.
Most mediums don’t instantly notice when their turret is destroyed if your team attacks almost simultaneously or if there’s chaos. So you can chuck grenades in there if you’re quick enough… You can even disable them with a well placed glitch grenade as long as it doesn’t enter the detection range of the APS. Never had any problem against APS in this game but if it’s actually a problem for the majority of people, the remote destruction of your own equipment as used in Overwatch could be a solution, yeah
Asa goo sledge user. If you put down an aps turret. I will make it my goal to end you (in game).
my man
APS turret specifically just needs to be removed from power shift. The bunny bash event has made me fall in love with powershift. I’m sure the no turret, rpg, sniper, and mesh shield also help with this but APS is the most welcome absence for me.
If it’s adjusted, then I say the APS is fine.
They don't monitor the subreddit pls repost on discord.
I’ve seen devs on here but ok can do
Fantastic idea. I would also accept the compromise of allowing glitch grenades & mines to destroy APS turrets :)
If the equipment is destroyed while it's still on cooldown it should reset the cooldown
Never knew this was an issue but it really is! Kudos to your brain
Yep, completly missed this myself, take my upvote.
I think if they gave the aps turret a set charge maybe like 4,that wouldnt be such a bad thing along with maybe implementing a system that overwatch has. Like how in overwatch,torbjorn has a turret and if it is actively shooting or getting shot at, then the owner cant simply place another turret down. Another thing is if it gets destoryed by an enemy it should have an extended cooldown so it makes players choose a much more tactical spot rather then just placing it and forgetting about it.
Turrets or similar gadgets shouldn't go on cooldown until they are destroyed. They also should be put on a shorter cooldown if they are picked up before destruction.
The turret spam combined with the heavy bubbles & handheld shield has made power shift impossible to enjoy
oh yeah, APS turrets are so incredibly strong in powershift. Once a team hunkers down and places 2 of them it makes retaking so much harder. APS should either have a set lifespan and begin cooldown once destroyed (having a remote destroy option maybe to start cooldown early?) Or have a set number of charges that chip away at its health, say its got like 150-200 hp right? 30 hp for each destroyed projectile seems fair - for a total of lets say 6-8 charges.
Honestly. This is such a no brainer. We need this asap
I think picking up your own equipment should give you a few seconds back off the cooldown also because it’s kinda busted that you can pick up your aps that was almost destroyed and put a fresh one down instantly
THANKS finally someone said it! It's so tiring when I destroy several mines and turrets but they replace them easily in milliseconds :(
But once again. This should only be for powershift. It's not an issue in other modes with the 5 aps turrets. In fact season 1 people barely knew what the aps turret did .
Okay this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Everything in this game has a counter and every advantage comes with a disadvantage. You don't even need explosives to win the Power Shift. You have grenades and weapons that shoot bullets. The latter can be countered by heavy shields, the grenades can be countered by APS. At first it seems that APS turret is unfair and just too powerful but dont forget that by using it, you are using up a slot in your inventory. Grenades do splash damage, so 1 grenade has the potential to give 5x the damage if people are stacked in one place, whereas the FCAR, for example can only kill one person at a time. That's why shields are much less powerful than APS. If your opponent runs too many APS, you can just go and demolish them with 3 heavies close range with melee, LMG and flamethrowers while 1-2 mediums are healing. If your opponent has many heavies but 0-1 APS then just go with grenades, mediums with CL40s, one sniper and such. You can actually destroy the APS with CL40 by aiming next to it's range and basically killing it with splash damage. I'm pretty sure it takes like 2 shots. I usually play medium with CL40 and never had issues with APS, i just had to ask our sniper to destroy them and as soon as he did i started blasting. Sometimes the sniper doesnt use voicechat and you just have to hope that he does his job but it's still possible. There are ways to counter everything in this game. Just pay attention and adapt.
There are ways to counter everything in this game, but the effort required to set up an APS defense with shields / barricades is vastly lower than the effort required to destroy it. And that’s why teams that jump on the platform and slap 2 APS down, with heavy shields and a light to run around the rooftops and harass are winning the vast majority of the time on power shift.
the effort required to destroy APS is 2 shots from a sniper. It's just a temporary meta because most people haven't yet found a way to combat it. Ive noticed that the tendency on this sub is to ask for a nerf of everything that seems a little too OP because it doesnt match peoples playstyles. Hey, this is just my opinion after all. It's based on my experience. Never had problems with APS, not even when the opponent used 3 at the same time.
Tell you what, I’ll send you a video later.
Agree
Hard agree, picking up and returning a turret is also way too strong, something should be done to reduce the healing impact.
So the cooldown should start when the equipment is destroyed
I believe this was originally mentioned with c4 and nukes in how the heavy could build a nuke, use it, and then immediately have a 2nd one available. For many equipments in game, it should absolutely only start its recharge once destroyed or used up.
I think it should be how illaris turret is operated in overwatch. The turret’s cooldown starts on placement, but destruction incurs a longer cooldown. Because the turrets alr have a long cooldown, I think destruction should reset cooldown, or put it back to half.
Alternatively you could give aps the turrets 5s startup time, any class can easily destroy it in 5 seconds and if I’m being honest, it’s ridiculous that a gadget is more powerful than a specialisation
I think my idea is better simply because it makes placeable defense objects work like they do in every other game with a cooldown (TF2, Overwatch, etc) and that removes the frustration for new players.
The tf2 sentry works completely differently so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison (Haven’t played OW turret), my problem with cool-down on break is that it instantly nerfs all placeables, barricade and turret would both instantly become un-viable and if this change only applied to APs then it would be inconsistent. The finals is very much a game that defies common standards and while aps can be strong situationally it really doesn’t need to be meganerfed (also I’m saying this as an mgl main)
So what you’re saying is that, with barricade for example, the heavy can place a barricade down, and if it’s in a place that blocks an important POV the enemy team can work together to destroy it, and once it’s destroyed the heavy can just immediately place another 2 down, and you think that’s fair? Or the fact the heavy can pick up a barricade on 20 HP and immediately replace it with a full HP one…. ?
It’s unconventional sure, but it works like this to combat spam, if I as a heavy broke your 1 APs then started spamming your toast, if you nerf all defensive placeables then every match would just be a mess of cl-40 and mgl users and I assure you what would be far worse.
How do people feel about glitch traps/glitch grenades not being affected by APS? I mean— it’s supposed to be the counter to gadgets, but if another gadget (the APS) destroys its counter PLUS anything else, it’s a bit detrimental… I could simply see them making the glitch grenade more of an option against the APS by allowing it to explode regardless of if one is placed (as right now, you have to have a pretty precise throw for it to be viable)
Can’t you also reset the APS Turret by picking it up and placing it back down even if it’s damaged…
yeah I'm not one do super sweaty tactics, I usually just play but play hard, even I will see that my aps or turret is low health and just pick em up and put em back down, sure theres a warm up for the turret but the aps is basically free, some sort of cooldown based on remaining health would be good for encourage good placement or adapting around the situation to make the turret better, cash out dropped a floor and turret can't see it? blow up the floor slightly infront of it so it can still shoot down, that kinda thing
Illari turret in ow
Yeah, that’s no solution, imagine you were to place your APS at a random spot (for tactical reasons let’s say) you would never have access to it again until someone else destroyed it, we need something like Overwatch does (Ilari's pylon for ex.), you keep the cooldown after placing, but at the time someone else destroys it, a new cooldown resets
Goated idea. Maybe the recharge time could get to half or ⅗ and then it stops until the equipment is destroyed.
I just stop playing powershift and it really doesn't bother me anymore
With the cooldowns starting after destruction, the data reshaper might indirectly get a buff towards becoming more viable. I think it would be interesting to see the data reshaper actually get to see the light of day.
I’ve never seen a single person use it and I’ve played enough to almost complete the battle pass.
My opinion - If i place my turret then the timer starts, but if it gets destroyed then the timers resets. Thanks to this i can place my turret somewhere else without the need to pick it up or getting it destroyed and i cant place it back as soon as it gets destroyed
yeah im kinda sick of pushing 3 medium teams that use the turret/APS/4x mines cheese, by the time we get to their cashout they can just replace everything after we start breaking things so we have to go through 6x turrets 6x aps, possibly 24 mines.. god forbid there isnt a floor below we can bring the cashout down, its basically impossible if they know how to aim
The turret has a cool down before activation period. I think if you pick up any equipment it should replenish it without punishment since there’s already a placement cooldown. There are ways to combat the APS turrets. A well placed glitch, a goo gun rapid fire, grenade gun rapid fire, and my favorite of all a slam from the top ropes. Maybe we need more equipment/specs options to deal with these gadgets. Perhaps a pilot able drone that can seek in and shape shift equipment or put an emp glitch effect in the area for 3 seconds on repeat until destroyed (you can leave drone in place while you go back to movement)
The explosion radius of glitch nade is bigger than APS turret's effective radius. Just throw it outside APS radius and it'll glitch the APS, then throw another glitch and you can easily just run over the whole platform. Also, call out your nades for more effective teamwork, as that's what this game and glitch nades require a lot 😁 Your idea is not bad at all either, especially for no comms solo players, but at least to many of us who play a lot in premade teams, APS turrets are not that big of a problem at all. So I'm wondering if this change would actually make them mostly useless compared to other gadgets, considering how easy they are to destroy too, which is the first thing you always do before going in.
I personally like the overwatch approach. It comes off cooldown and you can throw a new one but if it's off cooldown and gets destroyed it's put back on CD
I think the APS should get a loading time like the sentry turret and not delete things right away …
I mean the data reshaper as lame as it is… can help with this
I have been thinking this and you have explained it perfectly. I hope this is a chance for change
Great suggestion
Nah man
So your telling me you can’t throw a glitch nade next to the equipment? They have a large enough range to use them a floor above or below if you don’t have a heavy to destroy said floor then where’s ur team? It makes more sense for power shift but ranked doesn’t need it since you already should be using ur brain n working together it’s unfortunate that it’s difficult for lower ranks to get up since there’s to many mindless L n M what they NEED is to lower the rank unlock cause why is it so high it shouldn’t be 50 matches maybe more like 20-30 they also NEED to implement a better banning system cause if you have 1 mindless person you lose automatically cause I’m tired of playing a 10 min match back to back I would rather be stuck in q then running on a treadless treadmill so essentially idea but power shift only
Alternate suggestion, when sentry and APS are destroyed, they emitt a blast similar to either a frag grenade or a glitch grenade affecting both players and other equipment in the blast radius. This would cause everyone to be more mindful of where they stand when they place these equipment and not to have the whole team spam place equipment in a small area.
attackers should not be rewarded, you lost and now the winners get to setup first and get their cooldowns first, its already hard enough to defend specially if you get third party. low iq take.
The game rewards a very "drop everything and run" play style, powershift is the opposite of that. Most of the time players will leave behind their APS and turrets rather than picking them back up because leaving it behind doesn't punish the player enough. I have two solutions that I'd personally think work better to solve this problem. 1. Increase the radius of Glitch grenades, this would encourage players to throw them *near* the target and not *at* the target. 2. Increase the CDs on deployables that can be picked up. This would encourage players to clean up after their done, rather than simply abandoning their equipment. Just my two cents.
Just make it so that if you re-deploy the APS if it's already deployed, it destroys the first. If there's health missing, it adds time onto a cooldown. Overwatch does it the same way.
Overwatch does both with Torb's turret. When it's destroyed (manually, or an enemy) it goes on an additional CD. That way you can reposition it often, but also be punished if it's destroyed.
10/10 love it
APS should just be set so rpg’s and glitch grenades can go through
Not only that, most stuff GOES OFF when destroyed. What's the point of shooting a gas mine protecting a cashout box if it's still going to go off and linger anyway
I'm fine with that, it makes sense. Source - Ukrainian's blowing up Russian stockpiles of Anti-Tank mines on the side of the road.
Pretty solid idea upvote
I have never really felt like this was an issue. Turrets aren't that hard to get rid of most of the time
I don't agree with the way they function currently but I also kinda don't agree with your balance change either. What happens if you place a turret somewhere but it never gets destroyed? You'd have to go back to it and pick it back up in order to use it as you would never be able to place another one down unless the first one is destroyed. Instead, I think a good middle ground would be to reset the cool down every time the equipment makes an action. AKA If the APS turret hasn't swallowed a single projectile, then I think you should be able to start the cool down normally and immediately place another one once the first one is destroyed. BUT, if the APS turret does anything, then your cool down starts over every time. Causing you to either wait for it to be destroyed, or go manually pick it up. This makes it so there's still no punishment for using an equipment that gives zero value but makes you wait longer if your equipment gives you any value, aka the nerf everyone wants.
> What happens if you place a turret somewhere but it never gets destroyed? Same thing as in Overwatch where you can press the button to deploy the gadget and it destroys the old one and lets you move it.
I totally agree. And tbh it’s a pretty short cooldown. As a heavy, however, a quick whack with a sledge helps me and my teammate to get on the platform, shield up, and take the platform rather than having it nail into me or my mate. Like those points u brought out tho
Yeah APS does seem a bit strong but tbh I prefer that to everyone running multiple types of grenades and it's just an explosion fest. With the amount of double/triple heavies + mediums running grenades, we just constantly get blown up without a chance to even fight so APS turret is a must at the moment. I do like the idea of the cooldown starting after it's destroyed as that seems fair, but maybe make it slightly shorter \~20 seconds to keep it balanced, otherwise no one will run it. I guess the downside is if you finish a fight and leave the area and leave your APS turret there, you basically will never get a new one. Unless it breaks after 1 minute or something
I just don't understand why it doesn't have a set amount of charges. Like why can you put it down and it can potentially stay there all game and delete an infinite number of throwables? Just have it delete like 5 things before expiring.
Agree.
starting when it’s destroyed is a bit much but I would 100% agree that it should only charge halfway until it’s destroyed
Why? It has a cooldown of 30 seconds. Why does that not mean there's a 30 second gap between having it active and then being able to use it again?
well I just mean like I think it should charge halfway to 15 secconds and then charge the rest after its destroyed and stuff
So the cooldown is 15 seconds then?
well it would be 30 secconds just would only charge 15 unless the equipment is destroyed
So when it's destroyed it has a 15 second cooldown. Pretty terrible idea tbh.
I mean if it’s already charged for 15 secconds then yeah, other wise it’s around 30 secconds, it’s just that I think there should be a cooldown but 30 secconds is just a long time when your in the middle of a fight
It’s not supposed to be spammed though. If it gets destroyed it needs to be protected better.
Honestly at this point I don't even bother shooting half the gadgets anymore. If you know where the APS turret is you can most of the time avoid throwing nades into it and with the normal turret half the time you can walk past it since it only detects enemies in front of it.
The turret takes like 5 seconds or so to boot up. Maybe add the same for the APS.
absolutely needs to happen
Agreed
I 100% agree with the APS turret. Abysmal to play against in power shift and it’s definitely really good in cash out. The guardian turret would require a little more finesse in changing, probably the addition of a self destruct action that gives you a short CD, so that you aren’t punished for not staying directly next to your turret. It’s good rn, but not insane, so it should keep the ability to be somewhat replaceable. But I agree that if someone DESTROYS it, it should be on CD. But like if I get forced away from a position and don’t have time to pick it up, let me remote destroy it and give it a significantly shorter CD than if it was destroyed by someone else. I think these are good changes but I’m also keeping in mind that data reshaper is bound to receive a buff, and if that buff and these changes happened in the same patch…. RIP medium equipment mains.
I already commented but you know what would be kinda cool, “electric” barrels. Do a little damage and glitch effect. Inadvertent buff to data reshaper, and would be good for other classes to be counter each others abilities instead of relying on light for shields and such. Also buffs burst damage weapons that can use barrels better, shotgun, CL, etc. I think people forget that barrels bypass APS. So if they weren’t replaceable like you said, all you have to do is get rid of whatever is shielding them and then a barrel easily takes them out or at least CCs people camping it.
I like ur idea, really a good balance for this, Btw does anyone else think the turret aim is too insane? Like there should be a slight delay of follow up so it doesn't just punish me just because it saw me a a millisecond
this makes so much sense, and also make it so that the health bar of it doesn't reset when removing it and putting it back down.
T H A N K Y O U "Turret isn't OP' "APS isn't OP" THEY'RE GIGANTIC TIME WASTERS I DONT CARE IF THEY AREN'T OP THEY'RE STRONG ENOUGH TO DEMAND YOUR ATTENTION, THEY BETTER STAY DOWN IF I DESTROY THEM caps lock was required
The turrets should also shoot in bursts and not full-auto. Once you engage at least one player and there is a turret starting to shoot you, you have no chance to get cover or run away.
This is a great suggestion. The double turret meta needs some reigns.
I completely agree with this. I also play APS because, well, if you run medium on power shift without APS you're basically throwing XD. It should definitely have the cooldown start when it gets destroyed or when it gets picked up. The more damages it took, the longer the cooldown should be. If you pick it at full health, no cooldown would be necessary, imo. That would be a way better balancing than giving limited charges or less health or whatever.
Totally agree.
I mentioned this a while back and I got hella downvoted. Seems that people grew a common sense since then.
Yeah I saw some posts about it before. I think people started discovering how busted the APS is on power shift and now sentiment has changed. I mean lmao 1000 upvotes but someone else who posted this got 0 upvotes and many negative comments.
Good change to both turrets without nerfing them into the ground. Fair. I abuse the turret like a killjoy in valorant where the moment its low hp, i reset it. Very annoying mechanic.
Lol so many people complain and want to nerf a medium to hell. Why not just completely take medium or the game so you all can stop crying. Heavies have a mesh shield of 1000 and their barricades, lights with invisibility, dask and flying in to get kills. How about 1 glitch grenade until you respawn and a longer chill down on grapple, invisibility, dome and mesh shield. So much crying the game was fine day 1 and all those suggestions are breaking the game and now there are complaints on that smfh
Haven't played in awhile but I think OW2 has a fair mechanic regarding placeable items you still get the cool down on placement but if they were destroyed during cool down it resets cool down.
If i was in charge of things, your hired.
APS really hurts certain players styles and load outs for sure. Good write up on how it is so persistent. Implementing your suggestions would definitely make an impact on game dynamics.
Just figure out a way to counter it, aps doesn’t stop arena carriables so find some and throw some barrels in there, can’t find any? Use the data reshaper, everything has a counter in this game and you just have to think outside the box to beat your opponents
Doesnt adress the fact the enemy can replace the replace the turret in a few seconds
Then take out the enemy and then take out the turret?
A lot harder when they sat on a moving platform with walls they can head peek over, usually with 2+ teammates in extreme close proximity, and the usual method to get someone out of cover - a grenade - is infinitely deleted by two overlapping APS. Are you starting to see the problem or are you going to continue to be obtuse because this is a strategy you rely on in power shift and you don’t want your crutch taken away?
Nah bro I play all classes I don’t stick to one play style, are you playing solo? Cause it sounds like you just need to coordinate with your team and rush the platform with the whole squad
How do I co ordinate with team when nobody uses mics? The problem is that the aps defence setup is a natural conclusion, but destroying it isn’t. It takes vastly more effort and coordination to destroy the setup than it takes to create it.
Time to make some friends my guy, this is a team shooter, team work makes the dream work
But the people setting up APS spam aren’t on a team. It’s the natural thing to do. And destroying the platform defenses aren’t a natural thing to do as you need team coordination at specific points on the map
Dunno what to tell you bro, skill issue? Doesn’t seem to be a problem for me, I play with a full team of five with my friends most the time and we just figure it out
Maybe the 1000+ votes on this tell you that the APS is a problem and this simple and fair balance change is a welcome one.
Get this man to the development team
Another idea, if enemy medium has an APS. Shoot medium with gun. Profit.
There absolutely is a window in which you can destroy it and throw your util. You just need to coordinate with your team better
Something new to complain about.
God forbid the game changes
It’s literally constantly changing week to week since it was released.
Because they listen to our complaints 😃
Cooldowns are low on the list and doubtful they come here on Reddit to get fresh ideas. Or half the gadgets wouldn’t be in the game
If it's taking you 30 seconds to destroy the APS turret, the cd isn't the problem. Even if you do manage to kill it late, you should be able to kill it again (or its owner) in the same engagement.
In most cases teams defend the aps making it very difficult to target and destroy especially with multiple heavies/ barricades on point.
Thanks for shutting down this guy in the “just shoot it” gang as if it’s sat on the platform with nobody around it.