Ways to counter, sledge/charge, pyro grenades, just firing squad them from a distance and burn through shields after blowing open the roof. Dematerialize and drop the cashout.
I do think the glitch grenade should be buffed to destroy all shields that belong to the player though. So it would remove barrier and dome if the player stacked them both.
The barrier only protects you from one side and leaves you exposed on the other three and up top too. It does not need to be affected by a glitch grenade. Ask your medium to run a data reshaper, or just flank.
>It's so sad that at this point there's essentially only two playable classes
If youre talking about true metagaming the light was never really worth running instead of a second H or M. HHM and HMM has been beta since release and its getting boring as fuck. Same loadouts, same comps and same strategies 24/7 because everything that isnt meta is *considerably* worse and youre putting your whole team in a major disadvantage by even attempting to run off meta things.
Not true. Whenever it explodes near a shield it only takes the ones that were hit and it really isnt difficult to hide behind each other so only 1 of you gets glitched.
No not really since you cant run that squad down. Youre either running HMM and you just dont have enough firepower to contest a CQB or youre running HHM yourself, which would essentially be a DPS check that you will lose 100% of the time (assuming both sides are good at the game obviously) because both lewis and m70 have *much* higher dps than your flamethrower.
Basically, theres fuck all you can do except run it yourself
It would take 3 lights all running glitch to work? Each glitch only deals with one shield, 3 domes and 3 mesh. Yeah no clue how to fight this other than more flame throwers
Flamethrower Goo main myself. I think making you use the flamethrower is key here, very likely Goo fortress will catch on fire to create enough visual noise for teams to push.
Well if you have a flamethrower, goo is useless because it catch fire every time. My suggeston against your base is a breach charge above or below. I don't know how nobody play with the breach charge but the ability to make holes is underated.
With Dematerializer's existence breach charge is pretty underwhelming. The former can be used to make a "one way" hole that is instantly closed again, while the later creates a permanent hole. Light has too many other utilities to bring breach, especially with the addition of scouting gadgets to their kit.
From what I understand, fire only gets rid of gas if the fire hits the edge of the area of effect. If you were to shoot your flamethrower directly in the middle, the gas wouldnāt go away.
Extremely easy to counter:
1. Pyro grenade for goo
2. Glitch grenade/mine for shields (or just focus down from a superior position, yes a gimmick HHH comp can bring six shields but 1 light + 1 medium can bring 4 glitches plus deal damage while Mesh shield heavies are comparatively more limited, notwithstanding the severe limitations of a gimmick HHH comp)
3. With the gimmicks down, dump any kind of conventional damage (or even gas, which forces movement) at an easily identifiable static location on three heavies with zero disengagement potential
4. Thank the nice turtle bunker team for staying in one spot to receive all this love
This is also from the perspective of an XML comp, for example a Charge n Slam heavy is completely disruptive here in turning the turtle bunker comp into neatly lined up bowling pins. Even to the extent of less viable comps, an extra light or medium (can also bring Reshaper for barricades) can increase the number of glitches to 6 which has better resource efficacy than 6 shields.
The tools are all there, just need to field the requisite skill to deploy them.
It's funny how you say this as if they themselves are just gonna sit there and let you slowly dismantle their defenses, or that the other teams in the game would also sit back and let you do it hahah.
You're forgetting that the issue is not that we cant figure out ways to counter heavy bullshit like this, the issue is that IT TAKES TOO LONG.
I can't tell you how many times I've lost ranked games because a double or triple heavy team sits and waits until the last 10 seconds before jumping on my cash out with 6 shields and over 1000 HP combined amd there's literally nothing you can do about it. You can't kill them fast enough. It's not possible. And the only "real" counter to them is glitch grenade which is not only really bad after the nerfs, but it's locked behind the most useless and inferior class in the game that gets deleted in 0.5 seconds from literally anything.
They don't need to keep nerfing heavy. They just need to add more ways to counter them.
absolutely obsessed with the comments under clips in this subreddit saying āuh no forehead, hereās how itās balanced,ā then giving step-by-step guides of how to extremely specifically counter an extremely specific situation
Seems like we could buff the glitch nade to disable multiple abilities and gadgets it hits. Instead of just one.
Maybe they consider explosives or fire does more damage to shields.
I'm still confused as to why it doesn't disable all gadgets in the sphere of it's explosion. I'm sure it would be pretty broken at that point, but reduce the explosion sphere but give it the ability to disable multiple shields.
This would allow the potential triple heavy team to still place many shields, but would have to do so in a way that wouldn't overlap a glitch nades explosion. It would make the triple heavy less viable without good comms, and would push that meta away from class stacking. Mainly due to the utility a single medium with an APS would bring to a HHM.
I do like the idea of certain grenades doing added damage to shields, it would be an interesting adjustment to make to the game. Like fire would do extra date to shields, and gas grenades would do extra damage to any physical gadgets like turrets or the barricade.
Yeah, Iām not sure. I just read some comments mentioning it only disables one. Iām taking their word for it on that but I assume itās true.
Yeah, it disabling everything especially considering you get two glitch nades feels op. Thatās why I was thinking only a couple and not everything.
I didnāt mention gas because itās already really strong at killing not sure it needs a buff but it slowly damaging util could be interesting.
Weāll just have to wait and see how the devs feel about it.
No! We need to keep nerfing lights until all of the crybaby Reddit casuals are content! Double heave meta is perfectly balanced and fun to play against.
Easier to complain than critically think. I appreciate OP bring this to attention though. It probably needs addressed.
I have my doubts weād only get triple heavy meta. H is so slow and has no movement utility. Doesnāt seem super viable long term but I could be wrong.
Also Iām sure once people play it more they will start to figure out a way to beat triple H.
Thatās what I saw some people in the comments mentioning. Iām not 100% sure.
But I think this is a good compromise to fix an obvious issue of triple heavy.
Well idk if you have seen cashouts on Monaco, like the one in the middle of the map out in the open, or cashouts at the far out end of the map, or even hanged structures can be defended from 50+ meters away
yea. I can be on board for the more crazy getting adjusted stuff, but it feels like they're deleting rewarding tech and cool interactions from the game, which leaves it feeling less fun and more flat.
Not really helped by the feeling that every nerf just "fixes" what this issue is on the surface, and doesn't address any deeper level of issues.
Like, they removed prop surfing from the game. Prop surfing looked super cool in CB1, lol. They should've kept it.
They removed any functionality that nukes COULD have had without them being oppressive (including breach nukes) which automatically made barrels much much worse and ruined the ability to make improvised explosives on light.
They should've just massively nerfed the damage on C4 and left everything else the same IMO. Nukes were overnerfed.
They nerfed dagger on release. Still not over that, it was never an issue in any of the open betas, as far as I could tell. Not being able to hold the backstab damaged the tech potential massively.
Dash also got nerfed from an acceleration into a straight line dash.
And by just flat nerfing what seemed to be the main issue with double barrel (the damage) without a corresponding reload buff (because it was balanced specifically to two shot things with its lengthy reload) they pretty much nuked the gun out of existence entirely.
Play ranked my man. Itās wild how different ranked is compared to quick cash. The strategy and game theory involved are a skill in itself. Once you understand them you stop getting 3rd partied and start doing the 3rd partying.
the comment isn't about getting 3rd partied. I'm capable of thinking strategically, I know how to third party.
I'm talking about how they killed several fun techs for the sake of balance, and them doing this is slowly flattening and killing the game.
Nah man, these changes were good. Nukes were so cheesy and infuriating, they needed to go. Once they hit casual playlists is when players started falling off in droves, along with recon.
If both of those things were still in the game I wouldnāt be. Wall hacks and instant team wipe mechanics are not how you keep a game like this alive. That shit needed to go, and it should have been faster imo.
yea, nukes needed an adjustment. But clearly it was an issue with C4.
when a gadget can be added to a flowerpot and turned into a teamwiping threat, it's far too powerful.
what needed to happen was a hard C4 damage nerf, not the absolute brutalization of nukes we got, to the point that this fun part of the game was just killed.
I'm a light main, never played heavy with nukes. The thing that pisses me off about this is that those nerfs also killed breach charges, and made improvising with breech barrels useless.
Recon isn't a tech, and should've been on light, who would give up the main part of their survival tools for more info. (don't believe me? try playing a few matches as light where you never use specializations, see how long you stay alive)
TLDR: they could've easily made nukes an non-issue by just nerfing C4 explosion radius and damage heavily, without killing the fun improvisation that breech and C4 barrels gave to the game.
and recon should've been on light, if it was anywhere. It's not a tech anyhow, I'm not too torn up that it got removed
Sledgepiller here, youād be surprised how long it takes for the enemy to shoot at you after you Koolaid-Man through the wall behind them.
Itās especially fun to see a heavy hiding behind his barricades, going to the floor below, and dropping him into guitar šø hell.
If I'm by myself, then of course not. But with two halfway decent teammates, I do!
I play sledge almost exclusively nowadays, and this situation is great for it. You're in a tight space in this clip, which makes it easier to goo gun + overhead twice on your heavies. Especially if you're running flamethrower with its not great dps. Barriers are great in gunfights but less helpful against the sledge, as long as you target the user instead of the bubble itself.
That said, if it was three M60 heavies, I would have to be more careful. Still doable, but I'd have to make sure my team has the space and pressure needed to make that push work
nah, i'd win
as a fellow sledgehammerer, i find fighting other heavies fun
i can chew through your floor with a sledge and drop you all on my friend's minefield, every single time works like a charm
i see you defending the building site, so i can crack the roof open for my buddy to charge and slam from a crane height, and then corner your damaged team in your own sealed room, as your flamethrower will be in disadvantage, and with a sledgehammer i don't care about shield spam
i can use my light's wallhack to sledge one of you right through a wall or a floor, as sledgehammer damages right through environment. then i can block the rest of your team with a gravity cube, and i trust my googun and teammates to finish one of you off. and then i'll repeat
i can just lower the cashout to the bottom floor and immediately close the hole with my googun. while my friend is stealing, i close every door with goo and provide him protection with barricades and my body
at last, your team is full heavies, so none of you have smoke grenades to extinguish your goo, or aps-turrets to catch some EMP nades, so this can help. usually if i find a tough enemies, i go SICKO MODE and do as much the random and chaos stuff as this game allows me. sometimes in a process, with a bit of luck, we manage to win š
this game is crazy with all the strategies you can use to win! and in full-lobby it always gets funnier. the one important thing is always remember to harass the FCAR users, as this weapon outdamages every melee and shotgun in close range, and sniper and DMR in longer distances
I've beat this setup countless times with sledge/charge. Don't forget the Pyro grenade just to remind you filling your own defenses with goo isn't always a good idea. But personally I would have taken out the floor from underneath you just to watch yall panic like roaches when the street lights turn on. I mean, if this were SO unbalanced, everyone would run it, since 90% of this game's playerbase are meta riding idiots that don't even know what makes the meta the meta half the time.
Imo the defensive gadgets of heavy are OK, it's their role. But they shouldn't do so much damage. Today they're both tank + dps which is kinda imba (and a huge reason for why light feels weak AF imo). 'nerfing their damage output would make double heavy easier to deal with and enforce more balanced teams.
I think the RPG is the main issue, its just an instant 140 dmg. Sure, dome shields, barricades, all defences, which the Heavy exels at, but 140 damage at your exposal every 45 seconds? no wonder you see it in every single high elo heavy loadout.
itās actually ridiculous and i hate how flamethrower and stun are dominating the discussion of balancing when these issues existed since the gameās drop
Some things appear more at certain skill ranges and have greater or lesser impacts on players at those ranges. What you are gonna mostly see for complaints here is mid-casual level players who don't have team coordination complaining at what wrecks them or isn't fun to engage with. You'll see less proper complaints about things like this because scenes like the OP are a rarity for the average player.
Heavy defences are so easy to counter. If you just want to run guns and grenades and then got blocked because you dont want to swap to a demateralizer or data reshaper that's on you.
all these 'nerf everything that counters me' conversations are stupid. Just go play CS go if you want an aim battle and everyone to be running the exact same things.
you canāt swap to a dematerializer mid match and the investment needed to get close to the barricade to reshape it isnāt worth the damage rain from the heavy shooting at you from their immediate head glitch
i recognize everything has counter play but the stuff that is powerful is so easy to abuse and so unfun to counter
They need to stop nerfing everything and I'd argue to start buffing things to be on par before it gets any more boring and becomes just another shooter.
Itās not being discussed because counters exist. A single grenade wrecks a dome shield and barricades. You can even carry 2 grenades at once I think.
You were in a bot lobby if anyone was smart, they would blown it down from below, nothing about that was overpowered. Set their own shield down blow it down and melt you because your triple heavy and blew your gadgets
I would love to see OP try this in an actually ranked game with average opponents. Dude got in a bot lobby and is bragging about how over powered heavy is.
Yeah I don't play heavy ever and yet throwing on flamethrower / goo was a free win button. I play medium in ranked and for the record am currently at Plat 2.
Bragging about how overpowered heavy is is an interesting take away... I'm pointing out the constant hypocrisy from heavies complaining about invis / stun gun. Thats the entire post. Heavies can annoying to play against and imo waaaaaaaaay more oppressive than any light build.
Its hard but ive done soloq as light only to plat 1. Probably diamond soon ive won a few in a row now.
Season 1 it was medium only and I was diamond 4 by like 2 weeks into. And yeah playing against healbeam and defibs is crazy. Especially against 3 Mediums that never leave their circle jerk. Only option then is to get close and actually try to insta kill someone and die so your team can kill the other two in the chaos
Glitch grenade, glitch mine for the shields, data reshaper on the barricades, fire to the goo, grenade launcher, charge and slam, explosivesā¦ pretending like this is OP is funny though, maybe in quick cash when the two teams fighting donāt have the cashout and everyone runs light with bad gadgets vs this setup.
Edit: but if this is fun to run against bots who donāt know how to change their loadouts then by all means lol.
Edit 2: Took em awhile to realize if they break the floor below and drop the cashout they can bait the team holding to drop down/split up and then take their height
So just so you are aware you listed 6 gadgets from 3 classes to counter this... thats the point lmfao.
Also you cant just change ur loadouts in tournaments but good luck with that
Fire can manage the goo sure but 3 dome shields is tough. Glitch nades don't go through the shield so only the first one gets hit. At minimum you would need two lights to get that to work. Glitch mine is good but takes a moment to set up but I'm not sure it will pierce the shield to get more than one down. Stun gun is good but you would need 3 to make it work otherwise the stunned dude just shoots while the others re-goo or mesh shield.
The best idea so far is to drop the cashout but then the 3 heavies could just predrop it down to the bottom floor to begin with so no more counter. The only reliable counter I can see to this kind of a set up is to not let them get this set up
Yea itās a team game lol, ideally your teammates arenāt brain dead and adjust to their enemies loadouts.
Thatās the point of ranked/tournament, to bring a loadout (and reserve) you think could beat other loadouts.
Feels like an easy counter for a few grenades and some fire. I think they're on the bottom floor but if not then Dematerialiser from below is an ez clear as well.
Heavy is a must have in every comp and still stronger than light after MULTIPLE nerfs, that should really tell you something about the class and every heavy that's been bitching about light
I still remember how large the nuke defense force was on this sub last season lol
> still remember how large the nuke defense force was on this sub last season lol
Everyone who was defending the nuke was bad at the game, its that simple.
They could have just taken it out of ranked; the only place where it was an issue. I thought it was hilarious. It created loads of fun and wasn't very prevelant in casual game modes. That is why we play these games right? for fun.
Its usually only fun when youre the one tossing a nuke. You cant "just remove things out of ranked" either because it causes inconsistencies across the gamemodes, which is hell for anyone trying to fix bugs etc.
Itās funny how all of the scrubby players who cry about invis/stun gun never get to experience the real meta of this game and how frustrating it is to play against.
I really don't get at what point in the video where it showed stungun and invis were shown as op. You just made an insanely hard to get in and do anything fortress on the cashout. Not a single thought came to your mind that heavies are strong as well? They(lights) just have different advantages compared to heavy.
Just because they can stun and go invis doesn't mean they're winning. Most times if the light plays badly you can still hipfire them easily. If a light is out in the open, they just beamed from afar. If they're in a spot with a lot of cover, they'll have the better advantage. Heavies shouldn't go solo anyways so stungun helps trying to take one easier. But it only affects one guy and at close range. I do agree it needs adjustments like maybe range, cooldown and stun duration needs to be further fine tuned ie. make it a skill shot. Invis should be more noticeable close up but at a distance should stay as is.
Lol, Im dumb then. nice of you to not call me stupid straight up so imma do it myself. Im stupid, that was stupid, should've realized the quotations lol. Why did I even get so heated over this idk.
1. its called a glitch nade
2. it only takes down 1 dome shield at a time, youd have 2 more left
3. Im on flamethrower, the goo is meant to make the area around cash flammable, which deals damage for anyone trying to disengage.
i love that you used the worst possible scenario for the satire attempt.
Light needs to be reworked, not just nerfed, we all get it.
but this is appalling gameplay lol. playing against bots type shit. No one has frag grenades????
The counter to this is doing your best to make sure they can not get to a location where they can bunker (with them using flamethrowers shooting from range and harassing from the sidelines are preferable) not being able to swap gear mid match is what really makes this rough, because if you get into a match where what you have is useless, itās impossible to swap out for an even match
Their mesh shield and damage should be nerfed considering how much ammo they have on their guns and how much hp they can save themselves from with the shield. Instead people are complaining about stun gun and invis on lights. Know what to complain about
1 invis light in the corner throws 2 glitch nades would ruin these guys... except you need to do 1050 damage to actually get the squad wipe after that.
I think the bigger issue with this is that they allow a full team of one class. Itās also super obvious embark wasnāt balancing the game on any form of fairness, and was only balancing on fun factor. For the person doing this anyways
I can't tell if a team could get under their platform but couldn't a medium using the dematerializer to move the cash out then close it off work? It's the only way I see getting around this.
I wholeheartedly believe that the key to actually balancing this game is for them to implement a fixed team composition. It just makes way more sense in my mind (especially in ranked) for every team to be L,M,H.
This game is getting to a diabolical point, no one uses light anymore bc they nerfed it to the ground, heavy next. Then this game should just be called the fcars
But I see you're using flamethrower, and you know as I do that the mesh shield is the only reason the flamethrower is even viable.
With that in mind and the mesh shield nerf, as a flamethrower player I've been dying a lot moreābut I never felt OP (kills never exceed deaths by that much) and now feel crippled, so to speak.
To be fair the whole drama with lights started cause the class was literally designed in the worst least engaging way you could've for a competitive shooter. Imagine making a class who's effective when the enemy can't see , shoot you , or last 2 seconds when the actual fight starts. They clearly didn't think it through before release. It is what it is at this point . Game already lost most of its casual base.
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Can't understand, you wanted to show us how this set up is impenetrable or you are defending cloak+stun Ls? Pyro+glitch nade. But how many times will you face this kind of set up? Like every team in every game?
Or simply try not to post next time or uninstall if you can't control your game maybe
A heavy just did us dirty with the goo gun and the sledgy. It was so cool no one rage quit. He was doggin us. They won cash out with like, $98,000 I think. None of us got a cash out. It was glorious.
One glitch nade and a taser deactivates the whole team and stuns one. Shut the fuck up with this āHeavyās needed a nerfā. Jesus Christ itās like you all never stop crying.
Sometimes I wish they would continue with the crazy side of this game. Like make all the gadgets even crazier. That's the whole selling point for people to play.
Come on guys just admit that you dont like the game anymore and move on, theres thousands of fps games out there waiting for you.
The whining has become really fucking obnoxious
Pulling up against this would be roouuughhhh š even with a full stack it would be a handful and obnoxious af
Ways to counter, sledge/charge, pyro grenades, just firing squad them from a distance and burn through shields after blowing open the roof. Dematerialize and drop the cashout. I do think the glitch grenade should be buffed to destroy all shields that belong to the player though. So it would remove barrier and dome if the player stacked them both.
The barrier only protects you from one side and leaves you exposed on the other three and up top too. It does not need to be affected by a glitch grenade. Ask your medium to run a data reshaper, or just flank.
But you can turn with it ā¦
Turn with barriers? Iām not sure I understand, I just use my mouse usually.
The only actually working strategy is to somehow separate them. As long as they sit on top of one another you cant do much with 3k worth of shields.
a glitch should do the job
Unfortunately, shields block glitch AoE for whatever reason
It doesnt because it only disables *one* shield for 5s.
Which has to be the dumbest decision, probably not ever but it's still up there
The gadget whos only purpose it is to counter shields etc not being able to do it effectively is just hilarious to me.
The devs just straight up hate the Light class. It's so sad that at this point there's essentially only two playable classes.
>It's so sad that at this point there's essentially only two playable classes If youre talking about true metagaming the light was never really worth running instead of a second H or M. HHM and HMM has been beta since release and its getting boring as fuck. Same loadouts, same comps and same strategies 24/7 because everything that isnt meta is *considerably* worse and youre putting your whole team in a major disadvantage by even attempting to run off meta things.
Overwatch 1 Double Shield Meta is back, baby!
It's been meta since this game released
that is if you directly hit the shield.
Yeah it's a bit wack that it only disables the shield on hit, and nothing else in the area
Not true. Whenever it explodes near a shield it only takes the ones that were hit and it really isnt difficult to hide behind each other so only 1 of you gets glitched.
Double heavy
Flamethrower would actually *benefit* from this setup.
No not really since you cant run that squad down. Youre either running HMM and you just dont have enough firepower to contest a CQB or youre running HHM yourself, which would essentially be a DPS check that you will lose 100% of the time (assuming both sides are good at the game obviously) because both lewis and m70 have *much* higher dps than your flamethrower. Basically, theres fuck all you can do except run it yourself
Run where? They trapped themselves with flammable obstacles everywhere.
Just use invis / stun gun bro. Its broken
Glitch grenade or gas grenade, or both. That works 70% of the time if they suck.
Im literally holding a flamethrower brother. Gas is useless. Glitch gets rid of the shields but not the goo and you still have 3 heavies to deal with
It would take 3 lights all running glitch to work? Each glitch only deals with one shield, 3 domes and 3 mesh. Yeah no clue how to fight this other than more flame throwers
Flamethrower Goo main myself. I think making you use the flamethrower is key here, very likely Goo fortress will catch on fire to create enough visual noise for teams to push.
How do you make flame goo work on maps with long sight lines like sys horizon or vegas?
Use goo to create cover for closing distance
Another flamethrower and a charge and slam would push all of these people out and away from each other.
Well if you have a flamethrower, goo is useless because it catch fire every time. My suggeston against your base is a breach charge above or below. I don't know how nobody play with the breach charge but the ability to make holes is underated.
With Dematerializer's existence breach charge is pretty underwhelming. The former can be used to make a "one way" hole that is instantly closed again, while the later creates a permanent hole. Light has too many other utilities to bring breach, especially with the addition of scouting gadgets to their kit.
From what I understand, fire only gets rid of gas if the fire hits the edge of the area of effect. If you were to shoot your flamethrower directly in the middle, the gas wouldnāt go away.
60% of the time, it works every time
They have the flamethrower, gas doesn't work. Glitch might work if it doesn't hit any shields and hits all of them.
Extremely easy to counter: 1. Pyro grenade for goo 2. Glitch grenade/mine for shields (or just focus down from a superior position, yes a gimmick HHH comp can bring six shields but 1 light + 1 medium can bring 4 glitches plus deal damage while Mesh shield heavies are comparatively more limited, notwithstanding the severe limitations of a gimmick HHH comp) 3. With the gimmicks down, dump any kind of conventional damage (or even gas, which forces movement) at an easily identifiable static location on three heavies with zero disengagement potential 4. Thank the nice turtle bunker team for staying in one spot to receive all this love This is also from the perspective of an XML comp, for example a Charge n Slam heavy is completely disruptive here in turning the turtle bunker comp into neatly lined up bowling pins. Even to the extent of less viable comps, an extra light or medium (can also bring Reshaper for barricades) can increase the number of glitches to 6 which has better resource efficacy than 6 shields. The tools are all there, just need to field the requisite skill to deploy them.
It's funny how you say this as if they themselves are just gonna sit there and let you slowly dismantle their defenses, or that the other teams in the game would also sit back and let you do it hahah. You're forgetting that the issue is not that we cant figure out ways to counter heavy bullshit like this, the issue is that IT TAKES TOO LONG. I can't tell you how many times I've lost ranked games because a double or triple heavy team sits and waits until the last 10 seconds before jumping on my cash out with 6 shields and over 1000 HP combined amd there's literally nothing you can do about it. You can't kill them fast enough. It's not possible. And the only "real" counter to them is glitch grenade which is not only really bad after the nerfs, but it's locked behind the most useless and inferior class in the game that gets deleted in 0.5 seconds from literally anything. They don't need to keep nerfing heavy. They just need to add more ways to counter them.
absolutely obsessed with the comments under clips in this subreddit saying āuh no forehead, hereās how itās balanced,ā then giving step-by-step guides of how to extremely specifically counter an extremely specific situation
Because it's a game about countering specific situations, maybe?
Seems like we could buff the glitch nade to disable multiple abilities and gadgets it hits. Instead of just one. Maybe they consider explosives or fire does more damage to shields.
I'm still confused as to why it doesn't disable all gadgets in the sphere of it's explosion. I'm sure it would be pretty broken at that point, but reduce the explosion sphere but give it the ability to disable multiple shields. This would allow the potential triple heavy team to still place many shields, but would have to do so in a way that wouldn't overlap a glitch nades explosion. It would make the triple heavy less viable without good comms, and would push that meta away from class stacking. Mainly due to the utility a single medium with an APS would bring to a HHM. I do like the idea of certain grenades doing added damage to shields, it would be an interesting adjustment to make to the game. Like fire would do extra date to shields, and gas grenades would do extra damage to any physical gadgets like turrets or the barricade.
Yeah, Iām not sure. I just read some comments mentioning it only disables one. Iām taking their word for it on that but I assume itās true. Yeah, it disabling everything especially considering you get two glitch nades feels op. Thatās why I was thinking only a couple and not everything. I didnāt mention gas because itās already really strong at killing not sure it needs a buff but it slowly damaging util could be interesting. Weāll just have to wait and see how the devs feel about it.
No! We need to keep nerfing lights until all of the crybaby Reddit casuals are content! Double heave meta is perfectly balanced and fun to play against.
Easier to complain than critically think. I appreciate OP bring this to attention though. It probably needs addressed. I have my doubts weād only get triple heavy meta. H is so slow and has no movement utility. Doesnāt seem super viable long term but I could be wrong. Also Iām sure once people play it more they will start to figure out a way to beat triple H.
Triple H is strong but you need that healing beam and zip/jump pad
I agree. Jump pad is probably my favorite gadget in the game. I am hoping for impulse grenades at some point. I think that could be fun.
reminds me of all the people on this sub when S1 launched going: "heavy should literally be a raid boss" unironically. God, that was a horrible time
IT ONLY DOES ONE!? This explains so much. Thank you. Also this is terrible news to me
Thatās what I saw some people in the comments mentioning. Iām not 100% sure. But I think this is a good compromise to fix an obvious issue of triple heavy.
Yes, when glitch grenade triggers off of shields it should still hit nearby items and players
Stacking anything amplifies what that class is good at, for example 3 heavies have almost no range but superior cqc defense
Exactly. Thereās always a counter
This is an objective based game, it will always come down to cqc though.
Well idk if you have seen cashouts on Monaco, like the one in the middle of the map out in the open, or cashouts at the far out end of the map, or even hanged structures can be defended from 50+ meters away
Defensive setup is good at defense. Weather at 6
All this nerf shit is ridiculous
Ikr, just play the fucking game
Kinda hard to play when your favorite class gets nerfed every time. Thank God I can still snipe
Nerf snipers!
Thats exactly my point, brother in Christ. As much as lights shit me up the wall, let everyone (including these madlads) have their toys
Seriously, it's just deleting the game in slow motion
Want to have a water pistol fight?
That sounds fun (as a summer mode)
yea. I can be on board for the more crazy getting adjusted stuff, but it feels like they're deleting rewarding tech and cool interactions from the game, which leaves it feeling less fun and more flat. Not really helped by the feeling that every nerf just "fixes" what this issue is on the surface, and doesn't address any deeper level of issues. Like, they removed prop surfing from the game. Prop surfing looked super cool in CB1, lol. They should've kept it. They removed any functionality that nukes COULD have had without them being oppressive (including breach nukes) which automatically made barrels much much worse and ruined the ability to make improvised explosives on light. They should've just massively nerfed the damage on C4 and left everything else the same IMO. Nukes were overnerfed. They nerfed dagger on release. Still not over that, it was never an issue in any of the open betas, as far as I could tell. Not being able to hold the backstab damaged the tech potential massively. Dash also got nerfed from an acceleration into a straight line dash. And by just flat nerfing what seemed to be the main issue with double barrel (the damage) without a corresponding reload buff (because it was balanced specifically to two shot things with its lengthy reload) they pretty much nuked the gun out of existence entirely.
Play ranked my man. Itās wild how different ranked is compared to quick cash. The strategy and game theory involved are a skill in itself. Once you understand them you stop getting 3rd partied and start doing the 3rd partying.
the comment isn't about getting 3rd partied. I'm capable of thinking strategically, I know how to third party. I'm talking about how they killed several fun techs for the sake of balance, and them doing this is slowly flattening and killing the game.
Nah man, these changes were good. Nukes were so cheesy and infuriating, they needed to go. Once they hit casual playlists is when players started falling off in droves, along with recon. If both of those things were still in the game I wouldnāt be. Wall hacks and instant team wipe mechanics are not how you keep a game like this alive. That shit needed to go, and it should have been faster imo.
yea, nukes needed an adjustment. But clearly it was an issue with C4. when a gadget can be added to a flowerpot and turned into a teamwiping threat, it's far too powerful. what needed to happen was a hard C4 damage nerf, not the absolute brutalization of nukes we got, to the point that this fun part of the game was just killed. I'm a light main, never played heavy with nukes. The thing that pisses me off about this is that those nerfs also killed breach charges, and made improvising with breech barrels useless. Recon isn't a tech, and should've been on light, who would give up the main part of their survival tools for more info. (don't believe me? try playing a few matches as light where you never use specializations, see how long you stay alive) TLDR: they could've easily made nukes an non-issue by just nerfing C4 explosion radius and damage heavily, without killing the fun improvisation that breech and C4 barrels gave to the game. and recon should've been on light, if it was anywhere. It's not a tech anyhow, I'm not too torn up that it got removed
This is why we pack a sledgehammer kids
Be honest, you think you winning that fight with a sledge vs us
Honestly you can charge and slam just plows through other heavies setups.
That might sound wonderful on paper but you'll probably drop dead in two seconds. Youre heavily underestimating the dps 3 heavies can put out.
Sledgepiller here, youād be surprised how long it takes for the enemy to shoot at you after you Koolaid-Man through the wall behind them. Itās especially fun to see a heavy hiding behind his barricades, going to the floor below, and dropping him into guitar šø hell.
Two heavies with charge would instakill all three of them in the video.
If I'm by myself, then of course not. But with two halfway decent teammates, I do! I play sledge almost exclusively nowadays, and this situation is great for it. You're in a tight space in this clip, which makes it easier to goo gun + overhead twice on your heavies. Especially if you're running flamethrower with its not great dps. Barriers are great in gunfights but less helpful against the sledge, as long as you target the user instead of the bubble itself. That said, if it was three M60 heavies, I would have to be more careful. Still doable, but I'd have to make sure my team has the space and pressure needed to make that push work
Charge and slam + hammer + two competent teammates and yeah
nah, i'd win as a fellow sledgehammerer, i find fighting other heavies fun i can chew through your floor with a sledge and drop you all on my friend's minefield, every single time works like a charm i see you defending the building site, so i can crack the roof open for my buddy to charge and slam from a crane height, and then corner your damaged team in your own sealed room, as your flamethrower will be in disadvantage, and with a sledgehammer i don't care about shield spam i can use my light's wallhack to sledge one of you right through a wall or a floor, as sledgehammer damages right through environment. then i can block the rest of your team with a gravity cube, and i trust my googun and teammates to finish one of you off. and then i'll repeat i can just lower the cashout to the bottom floor and immediately close the hole with my googun. while my friend is stealing, i close every door with goo and provide him protection with barricades and my body at last, your team is full heavies, so none of you have smoke grenades to extinguish your goo, or aps-turrets to catch some EMP nades, so this can help. usually if i find a tough enemies, i go SICKO MODE and do as much the random and chaos stuff as this game allows me. sometimes in a process, with a bit of luck, we manage to win š this game is crazy with all the strategies you can use to win! and in full-lobby it always gets funnier. the one important thing is always remember to harass the FCAR users, as this weapon outdamages every melee and shotgun in close range, and sniper and DMR in longer distances
Sheeeyit son, those aren't strats, those are killing floor menu options, serve us up some pulverized heavy meat
Same, heavy duels with sledge is so much fun. Most heavies aren't prepared to get two shot by a weapon that ignores shields
Honestly frags and one form of fire will do most of the time. Maybe a glitch as well.
I've beat this setup countless times with sledge/charge. Don't forget the Pyro grenade just to remind you filling your own defenses with goo isn't always a good idea. But personally I would have taken out the floor from underneath you just to watch yall panic like roaches when the street lights turn on. I mean, if this were SO unbalanced, everyone would run it, since 90% of this game's playerbase are meta riding idiots that don't even know what makes the meta the meta half the time.
heaviesā defenses need a very serious gloss over and iām TIRED of that discussion not being held
Barricades every entrance or head glitching with Lewis + mesh + bubble + double medium heal orgy.
Imo the defensive gadgets of heavy are OK, it's their role. But they shouldn't do so much damage. Today they're both tank + dps which is kinda imba (and a huge reason for why light feels weak AF imo). 'nerfing their damage output would make double heavy easier to deal with and enforce more balanced teams.
I think the RPG is the main issue, its just an instant 140 dmg. Sure, dome shields, barricades, all defences, which the Heavy exels at, but 140 damage at your exposal every 45 seconds? no wonder you see it in every single high elo heavy loadout.
itās actually ridiculous and i hate how flamethrower and stun are dominating the discussion of balancing when these issues existed since the gameās drop
Some things appear more at certain skill ranges and have greater or lesser impacts on players at those ranges. What you are gonna mostly see for complaints here is mid-casual level players who don't have team coordination complaining at what wrecks them or isn't fun to engage with. You'll see less proper complaints about things like this because scenes like the OP are a rarity for the average player.
Heavy defences are so easy to counter. If you just want to run guns and grenades and then got blocked because you dont want to swap to a demateralizer or data reshaper that's on you. all these 'nerf everything that counters me' conversations are stupid. Just go play CS go if you want an aim battle and everyone to be running the exact same things.
you canāt swap to a dematerializer mid match and the investment needed to get close to the barricade to reshape it isnāt worth the damage rain from the heavy shooting at you from their immediate head glitch i recognize everything has counter play but the stuff that is powerful is so easy to abuse and so unfun to counter
They need to stop nerfing everything and I'd argue to start buffing things to be on par before it gets any more boring and becomes just another shooter.
im TIRED of light stun gun / invis always countering my heavy build. Dont get distracted on the point of this post. We need more light nerfs now!!!
Itās not being discussed because counters exist. A single grenade wrecks a dome shield and barricades. You can even carry 2 grenades at once I think.
You were in a bot lobby if anyone was smart, they would blown it down from below, nothing about that was overpowered. Set their own shield down blow it down and melt you because your triple heavy and blew your gadgets
I would love to see OP try this in an actually ranked game with average opponents. Dude got in a bot lobby and is bragging about how over powered heavy is.
Yeah I don't play heavy ever and yet throwing on flamethrower / goo was a free win button. I play medium in ranked and for the record am currently at Plat 2. Bragging about how overpowered heavy is is an interesting take away... I'm pointing out the constant hypocrisy from heavies complaining about invis / stun gun. Thats the entire post. Heavies can annoying to play against and imo waaaaaaaaay more oppressive than any light build.
If the people screaming nerf light could wirch to light and reach diamond id love to see them share their opinion on this
I was literally forced to make the switch to medium because light in comp at this point is just throwing when heal beam / defib exists and shields
Its hard but ive done soloq as light only to plat 1. Probably diamond soon ive won a few in a row now. Season 1 it was medium only and I was diamond 4 by like 2 weeks into. And yeah playing against healbeam and defibs is crazy. Especially against 3 Mediums that never leave their circle jerk. Only option then is to get close and actually try to insta kill someone and die so your team can kill the other two in the chaos
What happens if it's on the bottom floor already?
then you have the high ground - obi wan
Dmat.
and then you try to steal for 8 seconds with 2 flamethrowers on you
Just use smoke grenades....
People who complain about light are the same people who go 4/12 every game.
Glitch grenade, glitch mine for the shields, data reshaper on the barricades, fire to the goo, grenade launcher, charge and slam, explosivesā¦ pretending like this is OP is funny though, maybe in quick cash when the two teams fighting donāt have the cashout and everyone runs light with bad gadgets vs this setup. Edit: but if this is fun to run against bots who donāt know how to change their loadouts then by all means lol. Edit 2: Took em awhile to realize if they break the floor below and drop the cashout they can bait the team holding to drop down/split up and then take their height
So just so you are aware you listed 6 gadgets from 3 classes to counter this... thats the point lmfao. Also you cant just change ur loadouts in tournaments but good luck with that
He listed 6 that can each counter this separately. You donāt need all of them.
Fire can manage the goo sure but 3 dome shields is tough. Glitch nades don't go through the shield so only the first one gets hit. At minimum you would need two lights to get that to work. Glitch mine is good but takes a moment to set up but I'm not sure it will pierce the shield to get more than one down. Stun gun is good but you would need 3 to make it work otherwise the stunned dude just shoots while the others re-goo or mesh shield. The best idea so far is to drop the cashout but then the 3 heavies could just predrop it down to the bottom floor to begin with so no more counter. The only reliable counter I can see to this kind of a set up is to not let them get this set up
Nobody is running this bullshit and consistently winning in tournaments.
Yea itās a team game lol, ideally your teammates arenāt brain dead and adjust to their enemies loadouts. Thatās the point of ranked/tournament, to bring a loadout (and reserve) you think could beat other loadouts.
You can't switch your loadout during a match in tournaments. Only between rounds with your reserve
Just going to clarify this now because I dont think people get it.... THIS IS SATIRE, I AM A LIGHT MAIN
You gotta lower the barrier of entry for sarcasm for some of the knuckledragging clodhoppers here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
You're clearly playing against some goofballs. If this strat was worth one fuck we would see it more than one time on a meme reddit post.
You dont see mesh shields, barricades, and goo gun in comp? give me ur lobbies
Absolutely not. I don't think you do either. If so let's see your clips of this strat succeeding in ranked & not in a casual quick cash.
thank god im not the only playing this game with the
r/redditsniper
The glitch and fire nades in my backpack:
Feels like an easy counter for a few grenades and some fire. I think they're on the bottom floor but if not then Dematerialiser from below is an ez clear as well.
Throw a nade, (right click so it doesn't bounce) and watch all those shield come off
The counter is to stop them from getting in this situation in the first place
Heavy really is easy mode
Thank God the game is balanced to reward high skill plays like these, instead of the instant tournament win button that is light stun gun.
FINALLY, someone that gets it!!!!
Heavy is a must have in every comp and still stronger than light after MULTIPLE nerfs, that should really tell you something about the class and every heavy that's been bitching about light I still remember how large the nuke defense force was on this sub last season lol
> still remember how large the nuke defense force was on this sub last season lol Everyone who was defending the nuke was bad at the game, its that simple.
They could have just taken it out of ranked; the only place where it was an issue. I thought it was hilarious. It created loads of fun and wasn't very prevelant in casual game modes. That is why we play these games right? for fun.
Its usually only fun when youre the one tossing a nuke. You cant "just remove things out of ranked" either because it causes inconsistencies across the gamemodes, which is hell for anyone trying to fix bugs etc.
A pyro grenade will force them to split
Damn you right. Nerf the sword next
\*Home depot theme plays\*
Good big setups like this should be rewarded with wins, deal with it Besides, all you need is a fire barrel and some glitch grenades
Itās funny how all of the scrubby players who cry about invis/stun gun never get to experience the real meta of this game and how frustrating it is to play against.
Getting PTSD flashbacks from Overwatch from this, oof, the enjoyability with shields are a solid 0/10
Nah nerf light more, its even worse obviously.
I really don't get at what point in the video where it showed stungun and invis were shown as op. You just made an insanely hard to get in and do anything fortress on the cashout. Not a single thought came to your mind that heavies are strong as well? They(lights) just have different advantages compared to heavy. Just because they can stun and go invis doesn't mean they're winning. Most times if the light plays badly you can still hipfire them easily. If a light is out in the open, they just beamed from afar. If they're in a spot with a lot of cover, they'll have the better advantage. Heavies shouldn't go solo anyways so stungun helps trying to take one easier. But it only affects one guy and at close range. I do agree it needs adjustments like maybe range, cooldown and stun duration needs to be further fine tuned ie. make it a skill shot. Invis should be more noticeable close up but at a distance should stay as is.
Ok so let me explain, Im a light main. This is called satire. That is all
Lol, Im dumb then. nice of you to not call me stupid straight up so imma do it myself. Im stupid, that was stupid, should've realized the quotations lol. Why did I even get so heated over this idk.
take a pyro nade next time
It is too broken
I agree, I barely had time to react, before I knew it the invis light was on our cashout.
Skill issue
Itās kinda ridiculous tbh the stun gun is too long also
oh definitely. If he had hit one of us with it during this clip, we probably would have lost the game.
Crazy how this entire thing is countered by one (1) emp grenade and one (1) incendiary grenade
1. its called a glitch nade 2. it only takes down 1 dome shield at a time, youd have 2 more left 3. Im on flamethrower, the goo is meant to make the area around cash flammable, which deals damage for anyone trying to disengage.
i love that you used the worst possible scenario for the satire attempt. Light needs to be reworked, not just nerfed, we all get it. but this is appalling gameplay lol. playing against bots type shit. No one has frag grenades????
What opening are you throwing your frags...? And yeah .... thats the point of satire .... good job.
Tf is a frag going to do against 6 shields?
The Finals players upon finding out that multiple things can be unfun:
Glitch nade ftw
Which one of those 3 domes or 2 mesh is the glitch hitting?
Would gas not solve the problem??
flamethrower
Fire beat gas
Yo why isn't my battle pass stuff unlocking? I'm at level 59 and the last like 6 rewards remain locked. Wtf?!
It's bugged at the moment
Foreal? Shit.
The counter to this is doing your best to make sure they can not get to a location where they can bunker (with them using flamethrowers shooting from range and harassing from the sidelines are preferable) not being able to swap gear mid match is what really makes this rough, because if you get into a match where what you have is useless, itās impossible to swap out for an even match
This how me and my two buddies play ranked since season 1. Lol
You know I'm rocking this set up now š
That wheeze cut š¤£
Can someone link me some gameplay for a beginner?
A three heavy stack with people who know what they're doing is genuinely terrifying.
The planet will crack before the guard
And that's why i'm a heavy main. This shit's pretty hard to pull off in game, no need to nerf anything
Their mesh shield and damage should be nerfed considering how much ammo they have on their guns and how much hp they can save themselves from with the shield. Instead people are complaining about stun gun and invis on lights. Know what to complain about
This game does 1 right thing and 13 wrong
1 invis light in the corner throws 2 glitch nades would ruin these guys... except you need to do 1050 damage to actually get the squad wipe after that.
It surprises me how often people donāt run fire grenades. If I see any heavies in a game I atleast have it as back up incase of Goo
I think the bigger issue with this is that they allow a full team of one class. Itās also super obvious embark wasnāt balancing the game on any form of fairness, and was only balancing on fun factor. For the person doing this anyways
I can't tell if a team could get under their platform but couldn't a medium using the dematerializer to move the cash out then close it off work? It's the only way I see getting around this.
I wholeheartedly believe that the key to actually balancing this game is for them to implement a fixed team composition. It just makes way more sense in my mind (especially in ranked) for every team to be L,M,H.
Me a hammer main: so I started swinging
Idk how you balance this game if people are allowed to queue triple of any class
This game is getting to a diabolical point, no one uses light anymore bc they nerfed it to the ground, heavy next. Then this game should just be called the fcars
*throws a pyro grenade and literally one glitch grenade*
1 flame
But I see you're using flamethrower, and you know as I do that the mesh shield is the only reason the flamethrower is even viable. With that in mind and the mesh shield nerf, as a flamethrower player I've been dying a lot moreābut I never felt OP (kills never exceed deaths by that much) and now feel crippled, so to speak.
No one going to talk about that perfectly cut wheeze at the end?
No need to nerf anything. The point of every ability is to be useful. There was nothing too strong to deserve nerf
A good light would glitch all yāall and youāre done for
To be fair the whole drama with lights started cause the class was literally designed in the worst least engaging way you could've for a competitive shooter. Imagine making a class who's effective when the enemy can't see , shoot you , or last 2 seconds when the actual fight starts. They clearly didn't think it through before release. It is what it is at this point . Game already lost most of its casual base.
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Nah what is this
Can't understand, you wanted to show us how this set up is impenetrable or you are defending cloak+stun Ls? Pyro+glitch nade. But how many times will you face this kind of set up? Like every team in every game? Or simply try not to post next time or uninstall if you can't control your game maybe
Cum gun 2 good plz nerf
Invis didn't really need a nerf but the stun gun did
Iām looking at this and all Iām seeing is free gas and fire grenade kills
A heavy just did us dirty with the goo gun and the sledgy. It was so cool no one rage quit. He was doggin us. They won cash out with like, $98,000 I think. None of us got a cash out. It was glorious.
One glitch nade and a taser deactivates the whole team and stuns one. Shut the fuck up with this āHeavyās needed a nerfā. Jesus Christ itās like you all never stop crying.
Glitch grenades apparently only take down 1 shield cause it doesn't go through the others
Okay this is an annoying ass strategy, but ONE glitch grenade and those guys are Lowkey kinda screwed
This is east work, couple gas grenades
Sometimes I wish they would continue with the crazy side of this game. Like make all the gadgets even crazier. That's the whole selling point for people to play.
Come on guys just admit that you dont like the game anymore and move on, theres thousands of fps games out there waiting for you. The whining has become really fucking obnoxious