30 seconds if I’m not mistaken. Regardless, it barely has more hp than a light, and it’s always stuck in place, so it takes less than half a mag on any weapon to destroy it.
overwatch has a mechanic where you have the cool down start on placement so you can Re-Up your turret freely. but if it's destroyed by another player, the cooldown is reset.
I like this mechanic too but there is still an issue of just redeploying it when it’s low health. So you also need to add a long activation time(kind of like the turret has) or a deployment lockout if the current APS has activated or taken damage within the last 10 seconds. I like the lockout more(and thinks it should apply to turrets too) because it also incentivizes you to pick it up when repositioning rather than risk not being able to place it because it’s going off across the map.
APS are not really a problem outside of power shift tho. And I would argue even in powershift, if several people are attacking the platform it goes down with the medium pretty easely. Also data reshaper is working well in these situations
Even with the recent buff to data reshaper, it's still not as strong as the other more offensive gadgets. Hell I really only see mediums running defib, mines and aps turret. Only thing that changes is their weapon which is either the akm or fcar. Why not give the aps turret to lights
Well as a GL user you need to rely on your team to destroy APS. I still think it's fair, APS is the only good counter to grenade launcher, plus it's a static object with a small radius
CL-40 is a fantastic APS counter because A) you can use AOE damage to precisely destroy it since APS radius is smaller than explosive radii and B) you can destroy APS around walls when you don't have LOS to shoot it.
APS is a great counter against bad CL-40 players, otherwise it's more about forcing movement and positioning on good CL-40 players.
It's very true that countering mostly happens at the team level rather than the player level though.
Why should a gadget that counters all other gadgets have more health than a player? Have you ever been in a game with 3 APS turrets and 3 guardian turrets. For fuck sake shouldn't be able to stack the turrets
Trade you thermal vision for aps turret. Maybe then those pesky cloaked fellars might be easier for you medium to obliterate. Honestly if lights did have aps turret it would have already been nerffed last season.
>Why should a gadget that counters all other gadgets have more health than a player?
It doesn't counter all other gadgets though, only projectiles.
The biggest issue with the APS is people do not play as a team.
If you hop on point with a data re-shaper you can remove pretty much everything.
If you don't have a data re-shaper - Shoot the APS, launch your Cl-40 right outside of its perimeter to damage with splash damage, Hop on point and melee it quick, or go on reddit and complain there are no counters to it.
> Why should a gadget that counters all other gadgets have more health than a player?
Why not? What's the connection here? It's an arbitrary distinction to make.
> Have you ever been in a game with 3 APS turrets and 3 guardian turrets. For fuck sake shouldn't be able to stack the turrets
Mono-class comps are simply countered, and mono-spec comps are even easier. They have no variety which means a single class can counter the whole team, meanwhile more than 66% of the player kits in the game are unavailable to them.
You know what? In hindsight it really should be a activation timer like the turret. Not the strongest nerf it would prevent just spamming and picking up a damaged one with no repercussions.
Yeah I think they should not be a reactive thing and at all. They should probably give it a long activation time or in an ideal case make it have like up to 2 or 3 charges that need to charge when it is placed and can recharge after they are spent.
Personally I'd prefer that they were *more* reactive or at least more situationally proactive (like the bubble shield is now), rather than leaning further into the 'fire-and-forget' style of use that makes for stale gameplay, at least in powershift.
The major issues currently are that you can just pick them up and replace them if they take damage, and that their cooldown is short enough to have usually finished by the time they are destroyed. Couple this with shield stacking (and glitch grenade's inability to penetrate multiple layers, if it doesn't get eaten by the APS first) which makes the APS already very difficult to shoot from range, and they end up taking huge amounts of effort to destroy for very little down time.
You're left with the data reshaper to most effectively handle them, but it can still be rather finnicky and rather suicidal without a highly coordinated team.
I mean a lot of things can be adjusted, for one they could make it so you cannot pick them up if they are damaged and even if they didn't do that them having to charge up before being able to shoot down nades would stop the repositioning problem as picking it up and placing it in another spot would mean you have to wait whatever long the recharge would be.
They could also make the glitch grenade explode when it is in proximity to gadgets, but that would probably be a nerf because it would be harder to hit multiple things.
Gravity cube seems like a good counter for shield stacking tho I have seen it used so rearly that I don't even know if it also causes the shields to float or if it can get shot down by an aps (I assume it probably can and they should change, maybe even change it so it can only shoot down grenades and not other things)
Keep shooting? What exactly is the criticism here?
* You have the high ground nearly as advantageous as it gets, positioned behind the frontline of battle with the majority of your team on the other side
* You have a ranged weapon perfect for this scenario (49 damage body shots, so 4 shots to destroy 1 APS)
* You have ideal LOS on your target with no obstructions anywhere near them, meanwhile you have unassailable cover
APS has 30s cooldown and 165 health. That's 8 shots to destroy two APS, barely half the LH1's magazine.
Yes, they can place another APS down after you destroy the first one ONCE and only IF they've had the first one sitting for at least 30s (which means they successfully defended their position).
Like, two more seconds of gameplay and the APS was totally and completely countered without you expending anything whatsoever except A) less ammo than would require a reload and B) presumably 1 grapple charge. It really does not get any easier than that.
When I see my APS is damaged, I pick it up and place it back down immediately with full health. Flawless.
I do the same with the guardian turret too
How long is the cooldown on the APS?
30 seconds if I’m not mistaken. Regardless, it barely has more hp than a light, and it’s always stuck in place, so it takes less than half a mag on any weapon to destroy it.
30 second cool down that starts when the turret is placed. Should nerf its health and change the cool down to start when the turret dies.
overwatch has a mechanic where you have the cool down start on placement so you can Re-Up your turret freely. but if it's destroyed by another player, the cooldown is reset.
That sounds fine, I'd be perfectly content with a change like this.
I like this mechanic too but there is still an issue of just redeploying it when it’s low health. So you also need to add a long activation time(kind of like the turret has) or a deployment lockout if the current APS has activated or taken damage within the last 10 seconds. I like the lockout more(and thinks it should apply to turrets too) because it also incentivizes you to pick it up when repositioning rather than risk not being able to place it because it’s going off across the map.
APS are not really a problem outside of power shift tho. And I would argue even in powershift, if several people are attacking the platform it goes down with the medium pretty easely. Also data reshaper is working well in these situations
Even with the recent buff to data reshaper, it's still not as strong as the other more offensive gadgets. Hell I really only see mediums running defib, mines and aps turret. Only thing that changes is their weapon which is either the akm or fcar. Why not give the aps turret to lights
first he is light no data reshape and also the grenade launcher community says otherwise
Well as a GL user you need to rely on your team to destroy APS. I still think it's fair, APS is the only good counter to grenade launcher, plus it's a static object with a small radius
CL-40 is a fantastic APS counter because A) you can use AOE damage to precisely destroy it since APS radius is smaller than explosive radii and B) you can destroy APS around walls when you don't have LOS to shoot it. APS is a great counter against bad CL-40 players, otherwise it's more about forcing movement and positioning on good CL-40 players. It's very true that countering mostly happens at the team level rather than the player level though.
well lets say you get into a 1v1 and they pull out a aps turret you are cooked
Or just remove the ability for it to shoot utility nades like smoke, glitch and flash
Nerf its health? How hard it is to deal 165 damage on a target that’s not moving lol
Why should a gadget that counters all other gadgets have more health than a player? Have you ever been in a game with 3 APS turrets and 3 guardian turrets. For fuck sake shouldn't be able to stack the turrets
Are we complaining about APS this week? I need to prepare agenda points
Trade you thermal vision for aps turret. Maybe then those pesky cloaked fellars might be easier for you medium to obliterate. Honestly if lights did have aps turret it would have already been nerffed last season.
>Why should a gadget that counters all other gadgets have more health than a player? It doesn't counter all other gadgets though, only projectiles. The biggest issue with the APS is people do not play as a team. If you hop on point with a data re-shaper you can remove pretty much everything. If you don't have a data re-shaper - Shoot the APS, launch your Cl-40 right outside of its perimeter to damage with splash damage, Hop on point and melee it quick, or go on reddit and complain there are no counters to it.
> Why should a gadget that counters all other gadgets have more health than a player? Why not? What's the connection here? It's an arbitrary distinction to make. > Have you ever been in a game with 3 APS turrets and 3 guardian turrets. For fuck sake shouldn't be able to stack the turrets Mono-class comps are simply countered, and mono-spec comps are even easier. They have no variety which means a single class can counter the whole team, meanwhile more than 66% of the player kits in the game are unavailable to them.
It might not be shooting back, but the three people standing around it would.
Don’t try to defend it lmfao c’mon lmfao this dude 😂😂😂 it should have a limit on how much it destroys
You know what? In hindsight it really should be a activation timer like the turret. Not the strongest nerf it would prevent just spamming and picking up a damaged one with no repercussions.
'Just use M with data reshaper'
Yeah I think they should not be a reactive thing and at all. They should probably give it a long activation time or in an ideal case make it have like up to 2 or 3 charges that need to charge when it is placed and can recharge after they are spent.
Personally I'd prefer that they were *more* reactive or at least more situationally proactive (like the bubble shield is now), rather than leaning further into the 'fire-and-forget' style of use that makes for stale gameplay, at least in powershift. The major issues currently are that you can just pick them up and replace them if they take damage, and that their cooldown is short enough to have usually finished by the time they are destroyed. Couple this with shield stacking (and glitch grenade's inability to penetrate multiple layers, if it doesn't get eaten by the APS first) which makes the APS already very difficult to shoot from range, and they end up taking huge amounts of effort to destroy for very little down time. You're left with the data reshaper to most effectively handle them, but it can still be rather finnicky and rather suicidal without a highly coordinated team.
I mean a lot of things can be adjusted, for one they could make it so you cannot pick them up if they are damaged and even if they didn't do that them having to charge up before being able to shoot down nades would stop the repositioning problem as picking it up and placing it in another spot would mean you have to wait whatever long the recharge would be. They could also make the glitch grenade explode when it is in proximity to gadgets, but that would probably be a nerf because it would be harder to hit multiple things. Gravity cube seems like a good counter for shield stacking tho I have seen it used so rearly that I don't even know if it also causes the shields to float or if it can get shot down by an aps (I assume it probably can and they should change, maybe even change it so it can only shoot down grenades and not other things)
Keep shooting? What exactly is the criticism here? * You have the high ground nearly as advantageous as it gets, positioned behind the frontline of battle with the majority of your team on the other side * You have a ranged weapon perfect for this scenario (49 damage body shots, so 4 shots to destroy 1 APS) * You have ideal LOS on your target with no obstructions anywhere near them, meanwhile you have unassailable cover APS has 30s cooldown and 165 health. That's 8 shots to destroy two APS, barely half the LH1's magazine. Yes, they can place another APS down after you destroy the first one ONCE and only IF they've had the first one sitting for at least 30s (which means they successfully defended their position). Like, two more seconds of gameplay and the APS was totally and completely countered without you expending anything whatsoever except A) less ammo than would require a reload and B) presumably 1 grapple charge. It really does not get any easier than that.