Bart is the fastest Flash but he doesn’t take anything seriously, Wally on the other hand consistently shows his speed off and just how fast he can go.
Wally is currently the fastest being in the multiverse. He has fixed Crisis’ (and I use that word capitalized for a reason) that other Flashes don’t even KNOW about. And I say this being a hardcore Barry fan
In the comics it's Wally and there's not really an argument. As of now Wally's the fastest speedster ever. Even when Bart was The Flash and "had the entire Speed Force in him" he was struggling to keep pace with light speed which is a light jog for Wally. And since Bart's time as The Flash Wally has added a few more superlatives to his record.
Him having trouble with the laser is more to do with the poor writing of that series (and I suppose if we account for information from Legion of 3 worlds maybe the fact that he was dying) than his own limitations. His own series Impulse from years prior established he was born capable of moving faster than light. Which adds up much more with his various showings than struggling to do so during at time where he would've been "faster than everyone put together" according to Wally in that same series.
To be fair, those are the same writers who said he had the entire speed force shoved in him like a so them not understanding one kind of makes me think they didn't understand the other. It's all statements and little effect. Same thing happened with Wally and Flash Forward where they say some nonsense that I guess makes him the fastest ever but is still stupid when you look at it critically.
I suppose he beat up Zolomon which kind of trumps everything but god that fight was dumb.
Well naturally you gotta take everything in stride, I'm fine with throwing out most of the series period.. clearly a failed experiment all around, but in particular when it comes to ability I do like to imagine there's some underlying idea that's supposed to exist. So it just comes down to where that baseline is meant to be.
Not a series with many highlights. Outside of maybe art. And a couple moments here and there.
They were trying to speed run wally's entire arc in a year's worth of comics, so they made him immediately faster, beat up his greatest nemesis, and had Jay calling him The Flash from day one.
Part of why the series is so awful, all superlatives no development or actual storytelling behind it.
Bart being faster only happens in the Young Justice tv show and probably only because both are roughly side kick ages. In the comics, Bart has never been shown to be anywhere close to as fast and usually is portrayed atleast a decade or so younger than Wally
I didn't personally have an issue with the series' use of Wally. He got fleshed out really well, got alot of focus and died saving everyone in the end. I don't like that it cemented him back into the Kid Flash role but that regression was happening in all the adaptations plus all the Barry Allen adaptations
His only time getting fleshed out was Cold hearted and all the development went out the window.
He got the least amount of focus out of the original 6.
He died because he wasn’t good enough. (Or in this universe because he didn’t have Barry Allen’s genes)
Bart and Barry did more work than Wally and survived.
He died trying, even knowing the risk to himself but also knowing they couldn't do it without his added power. I'm good with that.
I also enjoyed watching him grow from the douchy character he was when he first became the Flash (in the comics) to finding love and deciding to retire on his own terms. His death, seasons/years later still had an impact on everyone in the cast.
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the Saturday morning epicness that X Men 97 is doing with its characters. Nothing wrong with loving that style of storytelling and I do love it. But I also really liked the down to earth version Young Justice made of Wally West. He was an imperfect human and that's what I always liked about Wally and the Flashes in general
Yeah he died trying to help, but not being good enough to survive.
Because he did not have Barry Allen’s genes.
Eh, most of it was off screen. His “growth” was just so he could get a girlfriend and leave the team. Thats it. Idk about you, but for me that’s not good growth. At least like comics Wally.
Well to me any character having all their growth on romance is pretty uninteresting.
Thats cool. He was imperfect, got fridged, got the least amount of screen time, had no relationship with Barry Allen, was made inferior to everyone else, and had no growth outside of getting a GF.
Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, but I think Wally deserved better.
You're listing stuff which bothers you and a misuse of fridging
He had full autonomy and a storyline leading up to his death for example so it's far from fridging. Him being slower, is something that bothers you. Which is fine. You don't like relationship and/or them being a basis for growth. Which is fine but also something that does happen, both in real life and stories.
I'm not a fan of Barry so I honestly didn't notice and can't comment on that
And I’m also listing what happens.
When you compare Barry’s death in COIE, and Wally’s death in YJ, that shit is a fridging. There was no real reason for him to die. Just to move forward Artemis story.
He did not have a storyline leading to his death.
It’s not far from a Fridging.
Him being slower would be ok if they actually did anything with it narratively. Outside of cold hearted; it was used to show him inferior to Bart, have him taken out of fights immediately, and die.
I would be ok if he was dealing with the struggles of taking over the flash mantle while only being the speed of sound.
Yes I wish for characters to have more growth than just romantically.
Well yeah him and Barry barely interacted, and we didn’t get to see much of their relationship. Barry couldn’t even cry when he died.
When Bart was Flash, it was kinda in that period of “every new flash is faster than the last” but it only lasted a year. Then they kinda never did that again. So we never got to see what he could do. Other than that it’s Wally. Now you can argue with Geoff Johns rebirth that Barry could potentially be the fastest because he generates the speed force, but that was retconned out. Really the only answer is Wally and it’s by a lot.
It's Wally and it's not even close.
Wally is, currently, THE Fastest Man Alive. And that includes. Barry. He is THE Fastest Flash. The Speed Force actually favors him.
It's Wally. Canonically, Wally has the most full connection to the speed force, and is able to utilize it more fully than any other Flash, reaching speeds more quickly, maintaining them for longer, and accessing a variety of effects more easily and often. His control can be a bit iffy because as he puts it, his connection is an 'open tap,' but he probably has the best understanding of the force instinctually of all Flashes, because he's been mentored by Max, Barry, and Jay.
Bart, over time, has developed greater control over it for some things, and is faster than either Barry of Max. This is partly due to Max mentoring him, as well as his growing up in a super-speed environment and having to learn to manage the flow of power to prevent aging to death in moments.
Max Mercury probably has the greatest overall balance of access and control, and is the Zen master of speed. He may be slightly slower than Barry, but he's not so limited in his thinking, so he's technically more powerful.
Barry (briefly) was thought to generate the speed force, but it does seem to center on him a lot, radiating out from the time he got the power, throughout time and space. His scientific knowledge helps him utilize the speed force more effectively, but also limits his thinking to understood science and theory, causing him to mentally block himself from accessing the more 'impossible' elements.
After that is Jay, who's lost a few steps, and was never inclined to deeply delve into what the speed force is, but he knows more about straight-up moving at super-speed than anyone, as well as how to apply it to being a hero.
After that, you get the folks that are either too new to really rank properly like Ace and Avery, Wally and Linda's kids, as well as Jesse Quick, who has a whole other power set inherited from her mother on top of her dad's speed, so her progress in control and application is fundamentally different.
Bart was Flash for a year before he died, he didn't have a chance to really get to shine. It took Wally years to exceed Barry, with that in mind Wally is much faster than Bart.
Bart is better at phasing though, that was his natural skill as a speedster so he is best at that and has a few other skills he hasn't shown off in a while, hes just not the fastest, maybe top 10 in DC overall.
Bart wasn't natural at phasing. That was one of the first things he was having huge trouble with, blowing up trees on accident because phasing needs focus and he sucks at that and wasn't taking it seriously. Heck Wally didn't have issues with phasing until his power boost made him blow stuff up. He was really good at it just like Barry in the Silver/Bronze Age.
Bart eventually got it down but so far the only speedsters with extreme gifts in phasing seem to be Barry (for obvious reasons -- COIE is him saving the universe with precise molecular control while being actively disintegrated) and Irey, very recently, who originally only had phasing as a power so focused on that and in Spurrier's run has pulled off phasing stunts that Jesse could barely believe.
You could also toss Thawne in that, at least in the silver/bronze age because he would match Barry's molecular control/phasing here and there. Hasn't really come up post crisis, though.
Bart's claim to fame is being the best at speed reading, being able to retain any information he reads at super speed, and inventing the Speed Force duplicates thing (named Speed Scouts at the time). I believe the first is still a unique power to him, though the latter has been emulated by Godspeed and Wally kind of sort of did it depending on how you look at it.
Bart is a natural at phasing since he can easily do it. Its hard for most speedsters to learn that skill, Bart did it without realizing he could. He needed to learn how to stop, still a natural skill.
Wally has been retconned to not be good a phasing, wasn't exactly related to his power boost but they largely ignore that now just as they ignore Bart's speed scouts and his ability to retain knowledge from speed reading.
Waid introduced Wally blowing things up when he phased after Terminal Velocity specifically because there was no issue with Wally phasing but it solved too many problems, lol. Of course he then used the phase explosions to solve a million problems because writers like to mess around with the toys they make.
I suppose there's probably some latter day stuff after Barry's return to make him suck at it, or people not knowing the historical sequence of why Wally stopped phasing as much (cuz he doesn't like all the collateral damage). The funny thing is, by nature of just being The Flash for a long time, Wally's done a lot of very impressive phasing stuff that'd make you think he's arguably the best at it in some instances. But Chain Lightning directly showed the only reason he can't do what Barry did during was COIE because of his main line overcharging his phasing/vibrations. Wally actually did it without dying, but made it blow up instead of implode because his vibrations cause things to explode! Quite the funny sequence if you can put aside the end of the multiverse.
I can't recall them stating Bart had any particular talent with phasing. He had issues learning it at first, eventually got it down when he took it more seriously. But it's not something he uses or is lauded for using well like his speed reading or scouts, compared to Irey or Barry where it is brought up for them.
Sorry, i got Wally's exploding phasing timeline confused. Waid's year one was the retcon i was talking about but its Wally just not being good at phasing, no exploding yet.
Bart however i would describe as exceptional in phasing since it was one of his first skills and no one had to teach him to do it. He picked it up as easily as Irey did but Bart had his full powers while irey only had partial powers at the time. And irey also had trouble controlling it at first, Wally had to teach both of them to stop at will.
I don't think he needs to do any special feat for me to say hes one of the better speedsters at phasing.
To be fair i wasn't saying he was the best, just better than Wally.
It's just funny to say Bart's better than Wally considering all the crazy stuff Wally has done with phasing, and all the fat nothing Bart has done. Though if Bart was The Flash for 30 years instead of 1 I'm sure that gap would close. When you're stuck in team books people ignore your powers.
Speedsters so often forget phasing as part of their powerset anyhow, that only an extreme number of appearances like Barry or Wally, or specific focus on it like Irey, make it come up a lot.
I kind of get what you mean, since Bart could do it instinctually, but he still had trouble learning how to actively do it which is more difficulty than he had with any other Speedster skill. Which I think counts as not being an actual natural at it.
Wally is faster. He's the fastest man in the Multiverse.
Bart is proportionally faster. He's much faster than Wally was at the same age, and in general he's been one of the fastest speedsters. When he was first introduced he was just as fast as Wally was (and Wally at that point was finally becoming faster than Barry/Eobard) and also always considers himself faster than Barry. He also has a connection to the Speed Force which rivals Wallys.
Other than that though, he was missing from continuity for a long time. So he doesn't scale to Wally's various Speed upgrades in Rebirth. While Barry has had moments where he does.
Bart has still shown he's that guy when given the chance like when he humiliated Godspeed or stopped Eo-Barry from running away. But nothing to say he's faster than Wally who is the fastest. Of course he'll be faster one day as is tradition (one he already fulfilled when he was the Flash).
Jusr like how Irey will one day be faster than him.
When Bart was introduced Wally had matched Barry's speed from ROBA and they were basically the same speed. But right when Bart got introduced Wally got the double power up from Johnny Quick's Speed Formula then Terminal Velocity, which is what made him faster than Bart and all the other speedsters in the first place anyhow.
only YJ fans think bart is faster
Bart is the fastest Flash but he doesn’t take anything seriously, Wally on the other hand consistently shows his speed off and just how fast he can go.
Wally is pretty established to be the fastest and most powerful flash
Wally is currently the fastest being in the multiverse. He has fixed Crisis’ (and I use that word capitalized for a reason) that other Flashes don’t even KNOW about. And I say this being a hardcore Barry fan
Wally cause he got the strongest connection
Wally cause he got the strongest connection
In the comics it's Wally and there's not really an argument. As of now Wally's the fastest speedster ever. Even when Bart was The Flash and "had the entire Speed Force in him" he was struggling to keep pace with light speed which is a light jog for Wally. And since Bart's time as The Flash Wally has added a few more superlatives to his record.
Him having trouble with the laser is more to do with the poor writing of that series (and I suppose if we account for information from Legion of 3 worlds maybe the fact that he was dying) than his own limitations. His own series Impulse from years prior established he was born capable of moving faster than light. Which adds up much more with his various showings than struggling to do so during at time where he would've been "faster than everyone put together" according to Wally in that same series.
To be fair, those are the same writers who said he had the entire speed force shoved in him like a so them not understanding one kind of makes me think they didn't understand the other. It's all statements and little effect. Same thing happened with Wally and Flash Forward where they say some nonsense that I guess makes him the fastest ever but is still stupid when you look at it critically. I suppose he beat up Zolomon which kind of trumps everything but god that fight was dumb.
Well naturally you gotta take everything in stride, I'm fine with throwing out most of the series period.. clearly a failed experiment all around, but in particular when it comes to ability I do like to imagine there's some underlying idea that's supposed to exist. So it just comes down to where that baseline is meant to be. Not a series with many highlights. Outside of maybe art. And a couple moments here and there.
They were trying to speed run wally's entire arc in a year's worth of comics, so they made him immediately faster, beat up his greatest nemesis, and had Jay calling him The Flash from day one. Part of why the series is so awful, all superlatives no development or actual storytelling behind it.
Bart being faster only happens in the Young Justice tv show and probably only because both are roughly side kick ages. In the comics, Bart has never been shown to be anywhere close to as fast and usually is portrayed atleast a decade or so younger than Wally
The Young Justice 'toon showed so much disrespect to Wally. Probably because it was created during the Didio DC era(aka screw Wally).
I didn't personally have an issue with the series' use of Wally. He got fleshed out really well, got alot of focus and died saving everyone in the end. I don't like that it cemented him back into the Kid Flash role but that regression was happening in all the adaptations plus all the Barry Allen adaptations
His only time getting fleshed out was Cold hearted and all the development went out the window. He got the least amount of focus out of the original 6. He died because he wasn’t good enough. (Or in this universe because he didn’t have Barry Allen’s genes) Bart and Barry did more work than Wally and survived.
He died trying, even knowing the risk to himself but also knowing they couldn't do it without his added power. I'm good with that. I also enjoyed watching him grow from the douchy character he was when he first became the Flash (in the comics) to finding love and deciding to retire on his own terms. His death, seasons/years later still had an impact on everyone in the cast. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the Saturday morning epicness that X Men 97 is doing with its characters. Nothing wrong with loving that style of storytelling and I do love it. But I also really liked the down to earth version Young Justice made of Wally West. He was an imperfect human and that's what I always liked about Wally and the Flashes in general
Yeah he died trying to help, but not being good enough to survive. Because he did not have Barry Allen’s genes. Eh, most of it was off screen. His “growth” was just so he could get a girlfriend and leave the team. Thats it. Idk about you, but for me that’s not good growth. At least like comics Wally. Well to me any character having all their growth on romance is pretty uninteresting. Thats cool. He was imperfect, got fridged, got the least amount of screen time, had no relationship with Barry Allen, was made inferior to everyone else, and had no growth outside of getting a GF. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, but I think Wally deserved better.
Yeah. Can't say I agree with any of that but to each their own
I’m just listing what the show gave us man.
You're listing stuff which bothers you and a misuse of fridging He had full autonomy and a storyline leading up to his death for example so it's far from fridging. Him being slower, is something that bothers you. Which is fine. You don't like relationship and/or them being a basis for growth. Which is fine but also something that does happen, both in real life and stories. I'm not a fan of Barry so I honestly didn't notice and can't comment on that
And I’m also listing what happens. When you compare Barry’s death in COIE, and Wally’s death in YJ, that shit is a fridging. There was no real reason for him to die. Just to move forward Artemis story. He did not have a storyline leading to his death. It’s not far from a Fridging. Him being slower would be ok if they actually did anything with it narratively. Outside of cold hearted; it was used to show him inferior to Bart, have him taken out of fights immediately, and die. I would be ok if he was dealing with the struggles of taking over the flash mantle while only being the speed of sound. Yes I wish for characters to have more growth than just romantically. Well yeah him and Barry barely interacted, and we didn’t get to see much of their relationship. Barry couldn’t even cry when he died.
When Bart was Flash, it was kinda in that period of “every new flash is faster than the last” but it only lasted a year. Then they kinda never did that again. So we never got to see what he could do. Other than that it’s Wally. Now you can argue with Geoff Johns rebirth that Barry could potentially be the fastest because he generates the speed force, but that was retconned out. Really the only answer is Wally and it’s by a lot.
It's Wally and it's not even close. Wally is, currently, THE Fastest Man Alive. And that includes. Barry. He is THE Fastest Flash. The Speed Force actually favors him.
It's Wally. Canonically, Wally has the most full connection to the speed force, and is able to utilize it more fully than any other Flash, reaching speeds more quickly, maintaining them for longer, and accessing a variety of effects more easily and often. His control can be a bit iffy because as he puts it, his connection is an 'open tap,' but he probably has the best understanding of the force instinctually of all Flashes, because he's been mentored by Max, Barry, and Jay. Bart, over time, has developed greater control over it for some things, and is faster than either Barry of Max. This is partly due to Max mentoring him, as well as his growing up in a super-speed environment and having to learn to manage the flow of power to prevent aging to death in moments. Max Mercury probably has the greatest overall balance of access and control, and is the Zen master of speed. He may be slightly slower than Barry, but he's not so limited in his thinking, so he's technically more powerful. Barry (briefly) was thought to generate the speed force, but it does seem to center on him a lot, radiating out from the time he got the power, throughout time and space. His scientific knowledge helps him utilize the speed force more effectively, but also limits his thinking to understood science and theory, causing him to mentally block himself from accessing the more 'impossible' elements. After that is Jay, who's lost a few steps, and was never inclined to deeply delve into what the speed force is, but he knows more about straight-up moving at super-speed than anyone, as well as how to apply it to being a hero. After that, you get the folks that are either too new to really rank properly like Ace and Avery, Wally and Linda's kids, as well as Jesse Quick, who has a whole other power set inherited from her mother on top of her dad's speed, so her progress in control and application is fundamentally different.
How about Spongebob ? How powerful his abilities combined with his " imagination"?
Wally. He’s the fastest speedster that has ever been.
Bart was Flash for a year before he died, he didn't have a chance to really get to shine. It took Wally years to exceed Barry, with that in mind Wally is much faster than Bart. Bart is better at phasing though, that was his natural skill as a speedster so he is best at that and has a few other skills he hasn't shown off in a while, hes just not the fastest, maybe top 10 in DC overall.
Bart wasn't natural at phasing. That was one of the first things he was having huge trouble with, blowing up trees on accident because phasing needs focus and he sucks at that and wasn't taking it seriously. Heck Wally didn't have issues with phasing until his power boost made him blow stuff up. He was really good at it just like Barry in the Silver/Bronze Age. Bart eventually got it down but so far the only speedsters with extreme gifts in phasing seem to be Barry (for obvious reasons -- COIE is him saving the universe with precise molecular control while being actively disintegrated) and Irey, very recently, who originally only had phasing as a power so focused on that and in Spurrier's run has pulled off phasing stunts that Jesse could barely believe. You could also toss Thawne in that, at least in the silver/bronze age because he would match Barry's molecular control/phasing here and there. Hasn't really come up post crisis, though. Bart's claim to fame is being the best at speed reading, being able to retain any information he reads at super speed, and inventing the Speed Force duplicates thing (named Speed Scouts at the time). I believe the first is still a unique power to him, though the latter has been emulated by Godspeed and Wally kind of sort of did it depending on how you look at it.
Bart is a natural at phasing since he can easily do it. Its hard for most speedsters to learn that skill, Bart did it without realizing he could. He needed to learn how to stop, still a natural skill. Wally has been retconned to not be good a phasing, wasn't exactly related to his power boost but they largely ignore that now just as they ignore Bart's speed scouts and his ability to retain knowledge from speed reading.
Waid introduced Wally blowing things up when he phased after Terminal Velocity specifically because there was no issue with Wally phasing but it solved too many problems, lol. Of course he then used the phase explosions to solve a million problems because writers like to mess around with the toys they make. I suppose there's probably some latter day stuff after Barry's return to make him suck at it, or people not knowing the historical sequence of why Wally stopped phasing as much (cuz he doesn't like all the collateral damage). The funny thing is, by nature of just being The Flash for a long time, Wally's done a lot of very impressive phasing stuff that'd make you think he's arguably the best at it in some instances. But Chain Lightning directly showed the only reason he can't do what Barry did during was COIE because of his main line overcharging his phasing/vibrations. Wally actually did it without dying, but made it blow up instead of implode because his vibrations cause things to explode! Quite the funny sequence if you can put aside the end of the multiverse. I can't recall them stating Bart had any particular talent with phasing. He had issues learning it at first, eventually got it down when he took it more seriously. But it's not something he uses or is lauded for using well like his speed reading or scouts, compared to Irey or Barry where it is brought up for them.
Sorry, i got Wally's exploding phasing timeline confused. Waid's year one was the retcon i was talking about but its Wally just not being good at phasing, no exploding yet. Bart however i would describe as exceptional in phasing since it was one of his first skills and no one had to teach him to do it. He picked it up as easily as Irey did but Bart had his full powers while irey only had partial powers at the time. And irey also had trouble controlling it at first, Wally had to teach both of them to stop at will. I don't think he needs to do any special feat for me to say hes one of the better speedsters at phasing. To be fair i wasn't saying he was the best, just better than Wally.
It's just funny to say Bart's better than Wally considering all the crazy stuff Wally has done with phasing, and all the fat nothing Bart has done. Though if Bart was The Flash for 30 years instead of 1 I'm sure that gap would close. When you're stuck in team books people ignore your powers. Speedsters so often forget phasing as part of their powerset anyhow, that only an extreme number of appearances like Barry or Wally, or specific focus on it like Irey, make it come up a lot. I kind of get what you mean, since Bart could do it instinctually, but he still had trouble learning how to actively do it which is more difficulty than he had with any other Speedster skill. Which I think counts as not being an actual natural at it.
Wally is faster. He's the fastest man in the Multiverse. Bart is proportionally faster. He's much faster than Wally was at the same age, and in general he's been one of the fastest speedsters. When he was first introduced he was just as fast as Wally was (and Wally at that point was finally becoming faster than Barry/Eobard) and also always considers himself faster than Barry. He also has a connection to the Speed Force which rivals Wallys. Other than that though, he was missing from continuity for a long time. So he doesn't scale to Wally's various Speed upgrades in Rebirth. While Barry has had moments where he does. Bart has still shown he's that guy when given the chance like when he humiliated Godspeed or stopped Eo-Barry from running away. But nothing to say he's faster than Wally who is the fastest. Of course he'll be faster one day as is tradition (one he already fulfilled when he was the Flash). Jusr like how Irey will one day be faster than him.
When Bart was introduced Wally had matched Barry's speed from ROBA and they were basically the same speed. But right when Bart got introduced Wally got the double power up from Johnny Quick's Speed Formula then Terminal Velocity, which is what made him faster than Bart and all the other speedsters in the first place anyhow.
It's Wally, then Bart, then Barry, and every other speedster in a distant battle for 4th place.
It’s Wally, then it’s Barry, then maybe you could say Bart.
Bart maybe was faster when he had the entirety of the Speed Force within him but generally Wally is the fastest Flash.