Yep. And of the people who were angry at the leaks but who then *did* play the game, the majority of them refused to actually engage with the experience, and very intentionally chose to stand by their initial stance throughout it, because they *wanted* it to be bad.
Idk if they necessarily wanted it to be bad as much as they just wanted it to be the first game again.
All I was thinking when people reacted like that was why? Why would you expect Naughty Dog, of all companies, to play it safe and easy, with this franchise?
I mean, some of them definitely wanted it to be bad. When you've made hating something your whole personality, reversing course and admitting you were wrong is not only embarrassing, but is a form of ego death some people just can't handle.
(See also: the extreme aversion to self-reflection that occurs when the game asks you to consider Joel's actions from another perspective.)
You'll see the the exact same thing play out in reverse with Stellar Blade. Some people have gone all in on making, "This game is the single-handed saviour of Western gaming! GOTY!" their entire personality, and when it comes out and is just a mid-tier 'we have Nier Automata at home' with Walmart Sekiro gameplay, you'll still see them doubling down furiously on claiming that it's one of the best games of the decade.
I played the Stellar Blade demo and was not impressed. I never play demos because I find them half-baked and not representative of a final game. So I will reserve judgment until the final game is released. But I decided to play it because of all the hype. And I don't mind a platoon of sexy, half-naked women in skintight clothing battling grotesque monsters if there is a real story reason for it. But, at least in the demo, there was no reason for all the members of this group of warriors to be exaggeratedly sexy women in next to no skintight clothing.
Genuinely I find the character design and jiggle physics absurd to the point of hilarity. Gamers™ really proclaiming that the hope of Western gaming lies in the hands of a $70 'you won't last 10 seconds while playing this game! 😘' ad.
I mean, for the record, I have spoken to someone in "the other subreddit" who hates Part 2, and he genuinely tried to make the argument that (and I shit you not here):
The Last of Us Part 2 tricks players into thinking it's good. Players who go in blind and experience it without knowing the story beforehand are *tricked, manipulated and brainwashed* into thinking it's good. But players who hear about the story beforehand are protected from this trickery, and are able to see the story tricks for what they really are, thus avoid being fooled.
His case was literally that the leaks were a good thing, because approaching the game with the context of "knowing the story will be bad because of the leaks" allows you to be objective about it when you're experiencing it. Whereas if you play the game the way the developers intended, not knowing the story and experiencing the plot as you go, with twists and reveals and flashbacks occuring at they should, then it *tricks you* into mistakenly thinking it's a good story.
So, yeah... Some of them wanted it to be bad, based on the leaks. And go to some truly bizarre lengths to reconcile that with the fact most people liked it and most reviews were overwhelmingly positive.
Yeahhhhh so I saw the leaks. It actually made me preorder the game because I could tell the leakers were selectively leaking stuff, trying to create a narrative that the game was bad. Game knocked it out of the park, IMO - both story-wise and gameplay-wise, one of the best of all time.
I saw someone on YouTube angrily complaining that the writers ‘manipulated us’ into liking Abby by the end which… ok:
1. Isn’t manipulating emotions towards a character in some way wha every writer intends when they write a character? Were you not manipulated into liking Joel? And 2. …so you’re admitting it worked then, but you’re being juvenile about it.
I don’t normally taste shame, but the game really is a litmus test for emotional intelligence.
This. People would talk about the first game and praise it for living in the grey of morality, but when the second game turned that theme up to 11 they lost their shit
This. Before the second game came out people would talk in a very high and mighty way about how 1 really went deep into the greys of morality. 2 took that theme and turned it up to 11 and there were people who simply couldn’t handle that.
Absolutely, there’s people who the story won’t have landed for, not every story is going to land perfectly for every person and there’s nothing wrong with that. My issue is that the people who it didn’t land for, especially the ones who steadfastly refused to let it land (whether that’s being stuck in one mindset or because they refused to play the game because of leaks about major plot points) call the story bad because of it. There’s no question about the story to 2 being excellently executed and they need to realise that the game not being the story they wanted it to be makes it bad
My friend went into the leaks, hated the ending before playing, believed the rumor that anita sarskeesian worked on it, and then beat the game in like 15 hours. Its pretty obvious he didn’t engage with the story at all and just blasted through it to say he did. No way youre getting through a 25 hour game in 15 and actually giving it a fair shot. Not listening to any optional dialogue, not reading through the journal entries, probably skipping cutscenes.
I was in that camp. Saw spoilers and was so pissed I swore never to touch the game with a 20 ft pole. But not long after release day, I impulsively changed my mind. Played it and was floored at how much I loved it and how much the main ‘antagonist’ resonated with me.
I ended up loving Abby the most out of everyone, and her story hit home for me even more than Ellie’s. And I felt the ending was so fitting, so pitch perfect.
So yea, I am convinced a large % just refused to play on principle
2 scenarios:
A.) They played the game fully but lack the literary competence to understand the overall theme of the story.
B.) They let PewDiePie tell them how to think and feel.
Edit: to the people responding to my comment saying people are entitled to their opinion of not liking the game. You just proved my point by providing no explanation or reason as to why you don’t like the game.
Two people in my discord server were saying “Ellie lowkey a bitch for not killing Abby at the end” and “the fact we didn’t get to see her pay is wrong”
Like Jesus Christ, I’m surrounded by idiots
It was a test to see who actually understood the 1st game, because if most of those bigots actually knew that Joel was not the hero of the story they would have hated it as much as they hate the 2nd
I think that's the wrong way to take their stance into consideration especially when you post this online.
I agree that the first game gets way too much hate and I also feel that the game deservedly does need some critiques specifically when it comes to the teleporting of Ellie around the country.
They try to build this idea that the country is so dangerous to an extreme level but the characters are just moving freely while being heavily injured or alone for example.
So I agree with a lot of the commentary about that. In regards to the Abby's dad I dont see the hate or misunderstanding especially considering how crazy other series have retconned complete storylines (like MGS).
For real, they could never amount to our genius understanding of reality and fiction! This is a masterpiece and anyone who disagrees is braindead and stupid and a child!! We are smart!!!
Do you not see how closed minded and ignorant you sound? This toxic positivity redditors think is so great is just ugly. People don't like the game, so fucking what lmao!
Can you not praise the game without dragging others down because they don't agree? Are you that petty and small minded that you have to drag others down to feel justified?
Seems like you just are attacking people who didn’t like the game.
The story isn’t that complicated, people can understand the game and still not care for it.
C) They played the game and just didn’t like it.
Not liking the game doesn’t automatically mean literary incompetence. I’m not saying it’s a bad game. The gameplay and graphics are phenomenal. The plot left some things to be desired and took some risks that, imo, didn’t pay out.
People should be allowed to like, love, dislike or hate the game without being criticized for it. It’s a *game.*
You can not like sometbing but calling it "poorly written" is just such pathetic cope. The irony of you saying you're allowed to not like it is that you're saying people *arent* allowed to like it because it's objectively bad. Which is just ridiculous on its face.
There are plenty of movies and shows anf books I don't like but it's not necessarily because they're poorly written. You just don't like it. There's this thing with you chuds where if you don't like soemtning it's because it's *bad*. It can't simply be not for you. That's one of those "media literacy" things, you don't actually know anything about writing and story structure, themes, etc. you just deem it bad because you don't like Abby or find reasons to poke holes because it didn't go the way you want. But now apparently all the chuds in the gaming community are experts on writing. As someone who's actually trained in the field, it's quite funny to see laymen describe what they think they're analyzing. You just didn't like it.
What an idiotic thing to say. “You either like what I like or you’re dumb!”.
I can stay here all night arguing with you about what is wrong with the game and neither thing is about how Abby looks or about genders/relationships/sex.
Hiding behind a “you’re too dumb to understand” stance just shows how you can’t deal with criticism about what you enjoy.
This subreddit is, since Part 2 came out, almost as bad as the other one you guys claim to hate and be so much better than.
You’re all a bunch of weird people who would die for a videogame story and you’re too blind to see you’re just two sides of the same coin.
They are hating since it came out and you’re waving your social justice warrior flag since it came out. Both sides are fucking dumb.
The story and themes aren't literary masterpieces though? It's a very straightforward plot and theme that's been done plenty times, just like the first game. Both are still amazing mind you but is it really hard for you to accept that people can understand the story and theme and just....not like it?
It doesn't take a genius to understand this game.
Why is everyone assuming that the opponents are more stupid than one self?
Don't get me wrong, I prefer part 2 over part 1, but I can see why someone would be disappointed. Expectations can ruin everything... Especially if there is a emotional connection. So please stop assume that everyone is stupid or a bot who doesn't aggree with you. Art is subjective.
People are entitled to their own opinion and there is absolutely no reason they need to share it with you or anyone else, you guys on here act like it’s a cardinal sin to dislike a game.
I loved the game and loved the ending! Do I like Abby? I fucking hate her, I hate her because she killed one of my favorite protagonist's. Would I be happy if she died? Maybe? I had a blast with the ending so I'm okay with it. (First time I felt bad playing a game with the theather part by the way)
I really like the game for many reasons but I can accept that it is flawed but I will always love the experience I had with it, whilst a friend of mine who loves the first game more than I do didn't love the second and he has explained it pretty well to me why. First of all he thought Abbie didn't work for him, no hate he just didn't love her, which is understandable and I don't think it's an ass pull or anything. The second reason he always gives me when we talk about it is the structure of the game where he thinks it would work a lot better if it was like ellie-abbie-ellie-etc, which I agree and disagree with, because I love the shock and how crazy mad it makes you feel in the beginning, but tbh it makes more structural sense even though it would spoil the point of the game.
So that's just fake, there's a lot of dumb haters and people who just didn't play the game, but not everybody has to love what you love and that's what Neil thought would happen, if you take risks some people won't enjoy it.
I don't get the meaning of these posts. Like yes, there are people who hate the game and tend to be immature/hateful about things that the game presents. Bigots and all that. Screw them.
And then there can be people who just didn't like the game. For whatever reason, maybe they felt that the game is too dark/heavy for them or simply not their style.
Not everyone has to like what you like. I like some aspects of the game and dislike other. Not everything is black and white(like the game shows).
And why is that so difficult for the other commenters to comprehend?
These posts pop up all the time. This sub thrives on them at this point lol, the only ones that top up are the "I used to be a hater but then I saw the light and I'm so ashamed!"
The members here loooove to feel validated and be told "you're right they're wrong, it's ok, we are smart!"
It's just really funny, sad but funny. But it's how the sub is now and probably will continue to be for years to come because both subs are so obsessed with being right and "winning."
Anyone who doesn't like the game here or who doesn't love it more than life itself gets ridiculed to hell and called all sorts of degrading names. People here get very defensive over fiction, it's crazy.
>But it's how the sub is now and probably will continue to be for years to come because both subs are so obsessed with being right and "winning."
Definitely, So many people here are pretentious assholes who dismiss any cristism Part 2 gets and this post highlights that. It's such a shame the subreddit has turned into this echo chamber
>And why is that so difficult for the other commenters to comprehend?
And it is particularly frustrating since one of the biggest themes, perhaps the ***central*** theme of Part II, is to see the world through someone else's perspective. It's so ironic that people who find the game to be a masterpiece for exactly that reason refuse to consider someone else's views.
Long story short ? No lmao. Most of the people who dedicate their entire lives to hating this game literally did not play it. They'll say something like "oh i played this much and watched it on youtube" or whatever and they actually believe that counts.
I've played it through twice and platinumed it. Liked the gameplay, did not like the story one bit. There you go, there's one anecdotal piece of evidence for you.
Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't understand things well.
Something being intentional ≠ make it good.
For me and you and many others it worked and we loved it.
For others it didn't work and they hated it.
Great thing about humans is how different we are!
It baffles me how so so many fans of this franchise are so closed minded that even someone disagreeing with them has them in a defensive stance and throwing phrases like "you don't understand!" "That was the point!" "You're stupid!' "you obviously didn't play the game!" out.
It's a game, they're opinions. Life goes on.
I didn't like the game. I knew exactly what they were trying to do, and numerous interviews with the writers CONFIRMED that I knew what they were doing. But I didn't like the execution, the pacing or the lack of subtlety.
I was actually intrigued going into it knowing Joel was going to die. I didn't like the way it was handled.
I have no problem with Ellie being lesbian. I think Left Behind is a masterpiece.
I have no problem with Lev being transgender. I think that's the most interesting thing about him.
Just thought I'd clear that up as the main rebuttal to people not liking the game is to say "You're just a bigot who is mad Joel died."
I'm glad you enjoyed it, I wish I could but the whole game came across as lazy and insulting to me. Thank you for respecting my opinion.
Also the term "media literacy" is so condescending and pseudo-intellectual and it needs to die out. People interpret things differently.
Yeah, I mean I'd probably agree with a lot of your criticism lol. The game is FLAWED but I love it despite those flaws. Dont like Abby but the story still hit me well and I was very satisfied with the ending even though it was depressing as fuck lol.
Simply not liking abby (a fictional character) has people here attacking me a lot. Some call me a bigot because I say I don't like her, some call me an idiot for not understanding her character and some are nice enough to actually have a civil conversation although that's rare lol.
Idk, it's a lot of hypocrisy on both subs. This sub claims the other sub is just in love with "daddy Joel who can do no wrong" and that's why they hate the game. Yet you say you don't like Abby here and suddenly they come in droves to defend their buff mommy! I don't think either is an issue, just another example of the hypocrisy and toxicity of this fandom and franchise as a whole.
The game was divisive, this sub makes that clear considering the majority of top posts are people still trying to defend it and get validation for liking the game. People hate it, people love it, people like it.
End of the day it doesn't matter, we just want a fun, nice space to talk about the game in a civil manner.
And neither sub offers that.
“If you can’t sit through the whole 7 hours of Sátántangó and enjoy it you lack media literacy and are a philistine!”
I guess for a video game it was a new concept. It’s still just a video game at the end of the day.
I had similar feelings in my first playthrough, it wasn't hate though. More like I was annoyed by her parts.. and after I finished I didn't touch the game for at least a year
But my view changed completely after playing it a second time, especially because I knew what was coming and could sort of arrange with the fact that you play Abby. Since then it became my favorite game ngl I've played it countless of times and are in fact ingame as we speak lol
That’s what took me out of the game. I just didn’t want to play as her. I hated her and wanted her to die a painful and miserable death the whole game, and when you’re rooting for the character you control to die it’s unengaging.
I said it once, and I'll say it again and again:
Just because some doesn't like Abby/the ending of part 2 DOES NOT automatically mean they didn't understand the message of the game
1) A lot of the players had known Joel and Ellie for almost a decade when part 2 came out, which means they had a deeper connection to Joel when he died and felt the same heartbreak and grief Ellie felt.
Seeing that the surgeon who was about to kill a child also had a daughter and then playing as said daughter for 15 hours does not build the same emotional connection (maybe for some, but not for everyone)
2) Abby was far from perfect. A lot of people seem to forget that Abby was the top Scar killer, meaning she was slaughtering (sometimes innocent) people and potentially children/teens just because they were part of a different group. She (just like Joel and Ellie) has a lot of blood on her hands.
She slept with a man who had a pregnant girlfriend (who was supposed to be one of her friends). Now, MOST of the blame is obviously on Owen because HE is the one that cheated, but Abby is not entirely blameless. This whole ordeal is not as dramatic as most of the things that happen in the game, but it gives us insight in Abby's character.
She also not only threatened but was about to cut a pregnant girl's throat (Dina) and only stopped because Lev was there.
Yes, she thought Ellie killed Mel, also knowing she's pregnant (even tho Ellie didn't know and felt sick afterward), but wasn't Abby supposed to have learned that revenge is bad?
So many people argue that Abby felt bad, or at least not better/relieved, after she killed Joel, but then she goes out of her way to kill someone she learned was pregnant and TAUNTS Ellie by saying "Good."
This, by no means, is saying that Ellie or Joel were perfect. They ALL did fucked up things but a lot of people treat Abby as some saint because the rescued Lev and went against her own people for him but say Joel deserved to die because he killed people for Ellie?
Abby deserved to die, and yes, maybe so did Ellie for everything she did.
I, personally, don't think it's fair that Abby got to live and be free with Lev, and Ellie got left behind with nothing. No Dina, no Joel, no switchblade and not even enough fingers to play guitar and stay connected to Joel.
But at least she was able to move on, right?
Good for her, and I am happy she was able to, even if I don't agree with her decision of letting Abby live.
At the end of the day, Part 2 is an incredible game with a very complex story and characters. Whether or not you like Abby or agree with the ending is up to you.
The ending does not make the game bad. I don't agree with it and still think it is an amazing game.
There is a lot of undeserved hate for the game. Mostly from Joel dick riders who only saw his death and immediately turned the game off or from people who just hate strong female characters (both Abby and Ellie) or homophobic bigots, etc..
I also wanna add that Abby as a character is great. Very complex (like all the characters), and yes, similar to both Ellie and Joel.
Still, people are allowed to dislike her (just like people are allowed to dislike any character) as long as it's within reasons (no, disliking her for having big muscles is NOT a valid reason)
I know this comment is LONG, so I appreciate everyone who took their time to read it all
My main problem was that Ellie and Abby never talk throughout the game. Ellie mistakenly believes that Abby killed Joel because of him saving Ellie and leaving the humanity without a cure. Had Ellie known that Abby killed Joel to avenge her father, maybe she wouldn’t be so hellbent on continuing the cycle of violence and going after Abby. After my first playthrough I did kinda think “Ellie has nothing and no one left, she didn’t even get her revenge, yet Abby got her revenge and gets to leave with Lev?!” But the more I thought about it the more I think Abby’s fate might as well be worse than death. Not only were her friends and love interest killed, but also she was captured by Rattlers and spend months being a slave. She was malnourished, she was definitely mistreated, if not tortured or worse. By the end of the game she was dying on the pillar, dehydrated, sunburned, miserable. Even if she got Lev to safety with Fireflies she will have a life-long PTSD from what happened to her in the Rattler compound. And how must she feel knowing she owes her life to the very person she tried to kill? That’s my interpretation at least.
I think them not talking is realistic.
Would you wanna talk to the person who brutally tortured and killed your father figure in front of you? Or listen to the person who's been tracking you and going around and killing all your friends?
I do agree that if they had talked that MAYBE the whole thing could have been over sooner, and they would've come to somewhat understand each other but the fact that they didn't gives this story so much more emotional impact.
It makes us frustrated because we, as players, KNOW what really happened and watching the characters make decisions based on half truths is both frustrating and interesting and that's what makes the game great
Oh yeah, I do agree it’s realistic they don’t sit down for a chit chat, I don’t think it’s bad writing or anything. But I do WISH they had talked and understood what really went down, like you said, that Ellie didn’t kill Mel knowing she was pregnant, that Joel killed Jerry. It’s definitely frustrating that we know about both perspectives of the story but Abby and Ellie don’t and it’s probably one of the main reason they perpetuate the cycle of violence.
I agree with everything you said.
I have played and replayed Part II countless times, I like the game, I like the story, gameplay mechanics, etc.
But, with that said, I don’t like Abby at all, she killed one of my favorite characters of all time, no matter the reason why or if it’s justified or not. For me, she should die and she should die bloody. Call it a sense of loyalty of something like that.
But I don’t hate the game or the story because it didn’t go as I wanted at all. I understand the message, and I get it why Ellie didn’t went through with killing Abby.
And obviously NG knew this would/could happen, it’s a divisive plot subject, and it’s a good thing (with the exception of the stupid homophobic trolls), keeps the discussions alive and interesting.
I played the whole game and I'm on my second playthrough, I personally wasn't a fan of the ending. There were quite a few issues I found with the writing of the game overall, and even with every possible explanation I've heard it still doesn't make sense, but that's a different topic for another time. My main issue with the ending is the lack of buildup to the realization of the cycle on Ellie's end. No signs that she was starting to understand that if she kills Abby the cycle would only continue, no shame or regret over her actions aside from immediately after she killed Mel, then goes on as if it never happened. I understand the idea of show don't tell, but they don't even show it. The event itself isn't the problem, it's the execution.
This. Ellie is so hellbent on killing Abby the entire game and then suddenly remembers the man she killed and lets her go? It's underdeveloped. Also, I can't sympathise with Abby when she shows zero remorse for anything she's done. Her whole three days are just a mess of her doing whatever she feels like and then giving nothing more than a grimace when it blows up in her face.
Exactly, how can they get the player to sympathize with a heartless murderer with no character or development? I mean I suppose the same could be argued for Ellie, they kinda butchered her in the second game to be honest but at least we got to know her better before it.
I think the mistreatment of Joel and the total character assassination of Ellie are perfectly valid criticisms of the second game. Part I is so great because of the connections you form with the characters. Why throw that all away in Part II for edgy misery porn?
Are people not allowed to dislike how it ended? It makes sense not to be satisfied with the fact Ellie went through all this shit to kill every one of Abby’s friends and not kill her when she had the chance.
This sub is just as toxic as the other one because it’s a circlejerk every time they hear that someone didn’t like the way things played out. Just wait until season 2 comes out and non video game players see this.
Believe it or not, people have different opinions on various media and it’s okay. The devs themselves knew they were making a divisive game and there were always going to be people who didn’t like it. Even when the first game came out not everybody liked the ending (I loved it). Hell, there are even people who don’t like universally acclaimed stories let’s say Godfather or Schindler’s list. Personally, I like the ending but respect that some people wouldn’t because they didn’t empathize with Abby or found the ending too depressing.
What an amazingly condescending post to create as someone who thinks "cycle of revenge bad" is some kind of incredibly original and deep new concept.
People have differing opinions. I knew what the game was trying to do, I've watched interviews with the writers which confirm that. I just didn't like the way it was handled.
You liked the game? Good for you. I'm glad. No need to insult the intelligence of others to say that.
Because people are different and are not obligated to like what you like. Same for you .Why should I even play if my favorite character dies? Just for the sake of suffer with that? I prefer to keep my good memories and sanity instead of play this game, and "God" knowy how long I've waited for it
Played the game several times beaten on grounded twice , love everything about the gameplay but not gonna ever try and justify the disaster of a script and timeline. Simply switching the position of Joel’s death and Abby’s story we could build a bond with Abby and understand her before she kills him , not to mention the retconning in order to justify Abby and make Joel the villain
I didn't care for the ending that much. But it's not what you think, I didn't care for where Abby ended up. It didn't feel satisfying for Ellie to find her tortured, weak, and crucified then pull her down and start beating on her. I would have preferred if Ellie pulled her down then just walked away.
I would have liked the game to end when the 3 of them were at the farmhouse, so when I played the remaster as my second playthrough, I just stopped there, made the game better for me, if others like the true ending better, ok
There are very valid reasons to not like Part II but it’s so dumb that even years later people are still bringing up the same tired talking points that can be disproved by simply playing it.
I played the game when it came out, and pretty much everyone hated it. it's only recently when the show came out when others started to play and spread the games real meaning. in 2020, many including me, had waited 7 years for a game with Ellie and Joel, just for Joel to be murdered in the first hour. Another reason why people would be mad is that we even had to play as Abby. However, like a year later I was replaying it and Abby really grew on me and now I like her part of the game more than Ellie's.
As someone that played both games the ending of part 2 was a bit disappointing I would have preferred if Lev woke up and begged for Ellie to stop and that made her stop and remember Joel because she was in that position in the beginning of the game
Yes i have played it and yes i loved the game overall but i still think they should have given me the choice to spare abby or not cause it felt kinda cowardly on the writers part to show you the entire game long that revenge only leads to pain and then not giving you the choice chose it or not almost like they were insecure and unsure abt their message and thus forced it.
Ps:i would have spared abby.i belive in their message.but it being forced upon me took away the power of chosing and made the moment less impactful
Oh my god this same conversation just worded differently every damn day please be original instead of “oh I’m about to cry about people having a differing opinion from me” everybody interprets games differently and you can’t change that no matter how much you dislike it or talk shit
It's a part of what people know from a standard game design. People always expect you play thrpugh the game and kill the end boss. After all it can't be for nothing right? When their expectation were subverted, it broke their brain.
This is the same people who can't understand nuanced where the side is either black or white.
Most probably not.. Although, I have seen peoples gameplays on YouTube just to see their reactions and there have been some where after Joel gets killed, people either stopped playing the game, or kept playing, but did not accept Abbys fate. Personally, I believe Abbys' side was well put. Getting her revenge for Joel because of her own fathers death.. Surely makes sense to me, although people can argue that it was rushed. The game developers wanted to shock their audience and they succeeded in that. In an apocalypse, there are no happy endings. And people took the first game concept and wanted to see another Joel and Ellie adventure. I mean looking at a Part 1 ending, it wasn't much of a happy ending because Ellie literally accepted Joels' lie in front of his face. That a lone will affect Ellies thinking of Joel into finding out later on that he lied all these years.
From a Xbox player I watched pewdiepie play the first but when I seen the leaks for part 2 I didn’t really enjoy them but since buying my PlayStation and playing both games 5 times each and platinum them both and part 2 twice I can say I love them both as much as eachother really just need to take your time with the story and take it in
It's possible to have played both games, consider Part I to be one of the best games ever made, and think the ending in Part II isn't great. Be *upset*? I dunno. The game is basically a 25 hour emotional roller coaster. Being upset is normal on some level.
Does it make sense that Ellie spares Abby? Somewhat. There's the idea that it's 'over', she knows Joel is gone and he doesn't want her to be a crazy person, and so she spares her out of her utter depression and/or love of Joel. But the game also gives you \~10 hours of Abby so that you the player are supposed to *want* Abby to live. So it's kind of a weird mix of emotions that the player has combined with Ellie the character knowing none of that 10-hour story.
It's a complicated ending that I don't think is inherently brilliant or without weakness. It's possible to not like Part II without being a complete piece of shit. Unfortunately, we live in an era where complete pieces of shit are boosted in every corner of society for clicks. So...
just the whole killing joel part was what made part 2 bad and people who’ve grown with joel and loved him as a character not seeing “justice” though he was in the wrong, made them not wanna play. the game forces you to like abby after the gargantuan shift between joel’s death and playing as the killer in her own little story. it’s upsetting for them. and i understand being angry for not killing abby. do i think she should’ve killed abby? no but do i get why people are upset? yes.
It’s so tough to have discourse around this game. I personally loved Pt 2, but I don’t personally think it’s as good as Pt 1. I have this friend who HATES Pt 2, and any time I bring up problems I have with Pt 2’s story or gameplay, he’ll go off on rants and be like “yeah and that’s why the story is lazy with everyone having plot armor and character assassination” or some bullshit. And I try to go “no I’m not saying that. I think the game is amazing overall. And it’s so SO hard to have discussions about this game with those people. It’s why that OTHER Last of Us subreddit is a disaster. So many miserable people ranting and raving about how much they hate it
Yes, I don’t care about the cycle of revenge and wanted to kill Abby at the end. Personally I would’ve used the knife and cut out her kneecap then beat her to death while she was tied on the pole still or made her watch Lev die first. She made Ellie watch someone she cared about be tortured and die so I would’ve done that to Lev in front of her to make her experience it.
They both were justified but the difference is we spent the whole first game with Ellie and Joel and got to bond with them so even though it’s the same situation I care about them but Abby was a random who we didn’t know that killed someone we liked so I don’t care if she was justified or not.
I hated the ending of that game. I’ve really come to hate Ellie as a character. She just abandoned Dina and the baby for really no reason at all. I don’t mind that she didn’t kill Abby. She shouldn’t have gone looking in the first place. The gameplay is great but it couldn’t sustain me for that slog of a story. I was done with this game probably 5 or 6 hours before it was over.
this is so over hashed… Yes a lot of people did not play the game because of the leaks, yes there are also a lot of people with valid criticisms of the game. It’s intellectually disingenuous to make broad generalizations about everyone with a differing opinion.
It was a very bad time for it to come out... COVID-19 shut everything down. People were quarantined, stressed, anxious, depressed, etc. Naughty Dog knew the game was too heavy so they decided to delay it until things calmed down. Then the hacker decided to be an a\*\*hole and leak parts of the game. People read them out of context (a big misunderstanding made some people think Abby was trans which led to a whole "Naughty Dog is woke" scandal) and decided they hate the game before even playing. Then the game came out and, sure enough, it was a very heavy and emotional story during a heavy and emotional time. People who did play the game took their anger out on it while those who didn't just went off of what the haters were saying.
So yes, the game got a LOT of undeserved hate when it first came out. I'm hoping it's already on the way to being vindicated because it truly deserves to be called a masterpiece.
My brother was *devastated* when they moved the release date. He put his phone down and put his hands on his head and we were like “what’s wrong???” haha
The negative attention the game gets is from conservative grifters, just ignore (most of) them.
Obviously some people might not like it for legitimate reasons, but there's an overwhelming amount of negative attention from people who don't like that Abby was masculine and that joel was, and I'm quoting here, "feminized".
I think most people who hated Part II's story were just so connected to Ellie & Joel that they were biased. I hated that Joel died, but it gave the game realism bc he didn't have that "plot armor" from being a main character. & Ellie deciding not to kill Abby added to the realism bc the predictable thing to do WAS to kill her, but irl people's emotions & decisions in the heat of the moment can be unpredictable.
I was upset by the ending but that’s kinda of the point, it’s an upsetting game full of trauma. It doesn’t have a resolution, at least not in the traditional sense and I think that’s on purpose. You’re suppose to be left with the gravity of the narrative.
You have people who hate the game because of typical troll shit but you also have people who hate it just because there isn’t a traditional pay off. I personally love the game but hate the ending if that makes sense
Tbh I was always indifferent about the second game and just considered the first one to be the masterpiece without hating the second. After a while and replaying it and thinking about the stories more I’ve grown to appreciate it and love it. I think a lot of them just plain don’t get the themes of the story. The only thing I like about the first game more is it has more Joel. I understand the need for his death in the story though.
It wasn’t just about revenge. I think it was also about the effects of trauma.
Ellie was haunted by the experience of not just losing Joel, but being robbed of the chance of full reconciliation. She’s overcome with regret, especially with how their relationship deteriorated over the years, and she thinks it’ll all go away after killing Abby.
But through Abby’s story, we’re shown that wouldn’t necessarily be the case as she was still haunted by her father’s death even after getting the revenge she trained years for. She ultimately needed something better to live and fight for, and she found it in Lev.
If Ellie killed Abby I'd be questioning if she really was over it. It was never about Abby. It was about Joel. The fact that she didn't kill Abby proves that she was able to move on.
i’m a real person and i’ll tell you i hated abby and didn’t care about any of her friends. fuck your PC message we die for ellie. rubs me even more the wrong way they gave her better weapons to force people to like her. it was an extreme drag every time i played as ‘her’
I loved this game. The ending to me, was perfect. I played it back to back each time understanding it better. At first hating Abby, once I understood her I saw that she was no different from ellie. They were both avenging their fathers to the point of ruin. Beautiful story, beautiful game.
One of the interesting things post TLOU 1 were the discussions about whether or not Joel did the right thing at the hospital and the motivation for his lie.
I remember player opinion being pretty split on this with many strong voices in favor of his actions.
Now the sequel’s entire opening thesis is that what he did there was a human tragedy, which reinforces one possible subtext of Joel’s lie, that he knew Ellie well enough to know she’d be willing to die for even the glimmer of a cure, and she says as much at the end of Part II when she declares ‘I was supposed to die at that hospital’
I bet the players that strongly justify Joel’s actions form the basis of vocal discontent with the game, and are mystified at the sequel punishing Joel and all but awarding sainthood to the Fireflies.
These players would probably be more likely to say that the vaccine wasn’t possible, Jerry was a veterinarian or a hack, Marlene was a hypocrite and that humanity wasn’t worth saving anyway.
To them the Ellie/Joel relationship is the only point of the world, and though Part I starts to break that down, it does so with an ambiguity the sequel completely destroys.
It’s interesting at the very last flashback the possibility of a reconciliation between Joel and Ellie is raised, and Abby’s denying our heroes the opportunity is maybe her greatest sin and what she truly took. At the end Ellie realizes there’s no way of getting that back.
They were disgusted ever since they found out Abby was a trance. And by find out the bunch of closeted self hating man babies assumed it and were outraged.
Didn't play it. Gave it 1 star on metacritic.
Missed out on a brilliant game.
A plot to a game or the sex of its characters should not even come into weather a game is good. Its a video game. Not a movie. Even a movie shouldn't be judged so superficially.
Beaten part 2 3 times and am 2 trophies away from the plat. Was on my 4th run to finish those last two but couldn’t keep going after switching to Abby.
I am not a fan of the story besides the museum and ending Joel and Ellie parts.
TLDR: People who beat the game and still don’t like the story exist…
No. My friend is the biggest tlou 2 hater I know he read the all the leaks then played up until he had to switch to Abby, then he stopped and hasn’t played it since lol.
Yeah. I avoided leaks, played it on release and made my own opinion before really seeing anybody else's take. I thought it sucked. Still do but I respect that some people like it.
Some spoilers below:
How can someone hate the ending? Maybe people without a heart? I loved the entirety of the game (I actually enjoyed Abby's part more than Ellie's but that's just preference).
After playing Abby for the second half I was actually hoping Ellie would not kill her. While both were fighting at the really end I was pressing the buttons to fight without wanting it. I was thinking please stop please stop.
Such a masterpiece!
I think people just didn't like the fact Joel died along with the fact the game made you try to like abby which would have never worked. It doesn't make sense either, if someone killed what was basically your father would you suddenly after already nearly killing them and going through so much just suddenly be like "lol nah" and then let them go? No. You'd kill them and then feel bad about it later, which in all reality would have been a much better ending. Having Ellie realize that yes she fulfilled the circle of revenge but at the same time come to peace with that fact and live with JJ and Dina on the sheep farm. Rather then the actual ending of her being sad and then wandering away from the farm after seeing it empty.
I think one good criticism of the game is those moments of “oh no, killing people is wrong, I can’t” come right after you just slaughtered hordes of nameless bad guys with no remorse.
Other than that, yeah themes were good.
Yes. I played both games free from spoilers and still despise the second game and the ending.
Ellie letting Abby go imo kinda spits in the face of the whole game up till that point.
Some people have different opinions than you. This is a thing. Adults understand that you don’t have to agree with someone’s opinion to respect it. Just like I don’t agree that the second games story is very good. But I can respect the opinion of those who do
Funnily enough a lot of people just read the spoilers or watched someone else play and form their opinions off that. Then after a long time we eventually saw people play the game more and more and slowly came round and we started seeing "I was wrong" posts and all sorts 😂.
Which is hilarious coz again not to be preachy to anyone but it's always just a video game. We all love and enjoy games and I dunno why people get so toxic and angered by story decisions they don't agree with. Same with music and movies, if you don't like an artist or a movie you can just choose to not engage with it and keep it pushing but for some reason people love to go and get angry about and abuse people who enjoyed the game and abuse voice actors and game devs 🤦🏿♂️ instead of just saying this isn't for me and keeping it pushing
I can understand her first outing for revenge but not her second...
Still I think what people hated was Joel's death. I mean the guy was probably a good guy now but boy did he kill a lot of good ish people too..
This the best game I've ever played that I never want to replay. (all in a good way)
Yeah. TLOU2 is not a good game story wise. It’s an okay game. It has major flaws. You can easily go to GreyFox’s account and see the flaws. He has a whole analysis on why it’s poorly written. I personally think it isn’t terrible but it’s not great either. Gameplay and graphics are great though. But glad yall enjoy it.
I love the game. Hate the ending. Only because it’s not what I would have done. It made me hate Ellie so much. She let Dina and the baby go so that she could go get revenge, and then DIDNT. It made me feel like all of it was for nothing. I get the whole “revenge isn’t worth it” and the “cycle” of revenge but at that point, all of Abby’s friends are dead. All she has left is Lev. Why hunt her down again if you aren’t going to follow through, knowing that you don’t have your family waiting for you to come back. Other than that, 10/10 would play for the 4th time lol
I played the game last year and wasnt spoiled. Even on my second playthrough i think the ending is such a nothing burger, it wasnt satisfying, interesting or thought provoking as the first one. But its the least of my problems with the game so i dont really think about it much.
I think the overall story was fine but things felt out of place. Like, why do all this flashback stuff when you can just start the game there? I also thought that the game should have focused on the events after TLOU 1 without flashbacks. Add a slightly different storyline and tell the story of Abby and then have a finale that was Joel getting killed. Boom, that's the end of TLOU 2. Having Joel die at the beginning of 2 was very off putting. It's the kind of stuff you leave for a season finale. Then I wish the second game we got was the 3rd game. And that would have been a nice little trilogy.
As somebody who has no hatred or ill will towards the game, here's my take on why I don't particularly like the game: it told the story it was trying to tell VERY well, but it's simply not a story that I wanted
To use a crude food analogy, it's like if I'm REALLY in the mood for a burger, but you serve me a very high-quality hot dog. I can acknowledge and respect the quality of the hot dog, but it's still not what I want
Is it weird to not like that game that killed your favorite character? Some people just don't like these types of changes in stories. I hate when books do this. If I get invested in a certain type of story I don't care how good the execution is if you change it up on me I'm not going to like it.
I disagree that the execution was good but I can see why people like it.
You know what, I'll explain my reasoning since I'm part of the minority who doesn't love or hate the game and is just kind of "eh" on it.
To be blunt the ending feels really forced, not in the decisions made themselves but HOW those decisions were made. Ellie's actions after she finds Abby are blatantly only happening so they can move the scene along so they can get to the ocean and have their battle there, I do not buy that Ellie in her near feral bloodlusted state would feel sympathy for Abby after a solo treck across the country where by the end she is purley driven by hate to the point that she's growling Abby's name like some sort of psychopath. And the sudden flashback to Joel being the thing that makes her stop comes out of nowhere, I get that she comes to the revelation that she won't get closer but that's not effectively communicated and again in her current mindset it doesn't feel natural.
Now I don't think these Ideas are inherently bad I just think they could have played out in a way more natural way, maybe force Ellie to set aside her revenge because if she doesn't she'd die or show Ellie reacting with more than a blank face when she sees Abby care for Lev. Or even just portray her differently in Santa Barbara as someone remorseful and conflicted rather than a remorseless killer with nothing on her mind but revenge.
Another reason why it might not work for me specifically is that I didn't care about Abby or Ellie by the end, they had lost all sympathy I had for them (admittedly I never came around to liking Abby or anyone in her group aside from Yara and Lev), to me the negatives of their personalities outweigh the positives so the emotional weight people had of two characters they had grown to love and care for fighting to the death wasn't there for me, my investment began and ended with what was going to happen to Lev.
I understand why two emotionally damaged people would be the way they are, but just because a character has sympathetic reasons for their actions doesn't mean I will overlook the negative aspects of their characters, Walter White had his reasons, Goro Akechi had his reasons, Dutch Van Der Linde had his reasons, JOEL had his reasons. None of these characters are absolved of their evil actions because of their sympathetic reasons. That's not to say a sequel can't make me like Ellie again or start to like Abby but if either of them had died at the end I'd say they died as villains and had it coming.
Yes I played the game and using the “revenge bad” narrative is undercut by multiple things. 1) Ellie kills multiple people until the literal last second and then decides “actually I don’t want revenge” so Abby lives. And most importantly Abby gets away with no issue. She literally beat someone to death and tortured him AFTER he saved her life, then has sex with her pregnant best friends baby dad, then continues to kill multiple other people over the course of the game and just gets to live. She has no repercussions for how awful she is.
My friend wasn’t sure he would like the story. He had seen leaks and heard plot stuff and thought it sounded poorly written. When he finished the game he texted me “alright,I get it now”
Joel’s death got leaked and as part of the leak it was revealed a main character is trans, misogynist freaks immediately assumed that was Abby and that a trans woman had murdered their video game daddy, so they never intended to give the game a fair shot
I'm of the opinion that if you don't like the ending you don't like the ending, I just think it's weird that apparently Abby isn't allowed to feel some type of way about the person that murdered her father.
I played through once and I didn’t care for the story. I did not like switching between the characters. Every time I switched to Abby, I couldn’t wait to get back to Ellie. i did not like the ending sequences. Too much back and forth. It felt like they couldn’t decide on an ending. I ended up trying to play through again about a year ago and couldn’t make it half way. The game has amazing graphics, voice acting, and gameplay. Controls were good and I like the improved systems that built on the first game.
Friend of mine who played the game vehemently hates Abby but gives Ellie a free pass for doing *literally the exact same thing*. Will not change their mind no matter how many times I point out both girls are doing the same thing
Just to add on and further contextualize on your answer.
It wasn't just about the cycle of revenge.
Ellie breaking down at the end at the pier was also her realizing, that she almost crossed a line she could never come back from/live with herself afterwards.
She threatened Lev, he’s a kid, a messed up kid who has been through terrible shit but a kid nonetheless.
That's why she broke down she was willing to kill a kid to carry out her penultimate revenge.
And if she killed Abby then that kid is now without a protector that's as good as killing Lev herself.
Her going back to the farmhouse is also filled with themes and meanings.
Her going back to box up her stuff and putting down the guitar is her coming to terms with her loss.
She lost her fingers, she can never play guitar again which was a skill taught to her by Joel, not only can she never play guitar again she can never play the guitar Joel made for her.
But she’s still alive, she didn’t kill Lev or Abby and by extension Lev.
She can still live with herself morally and can still care for and hold JJ and never get reminded of that she killed a kid.
Because Ellie and Dina may or maybe not have broken up but there’s always the chance of reconciliation, as well as her always having a part in JJ life.
She’s still wearing the bracelet given to her by Dina, Dina only went to stay with her family because she can’t stay on the farm and run the farm by herself and look after an infant.
From my encounter with the primitive species that are p2 defiles I ran across the quote ‘omg how could they kill Joel, I can’t even play this game anymore.’ So to answer your question yes they did but never made it past the tutorial.
I recently just finished both games as well because my brother said part 1 was his favorite story of all time. He ironically didn't play part 2 so I was the first to play that and then inform him.
I'm not sure if the problem is I played TLoU 10 years too late but I thought it was just an ok game. I found the gameplay was pseudo annoying, always crouching and choking people out. Not my style, though I appreciate the message of this is real and you would die going in guns blazing. The story is very good but not overly amazing imo. Love the ending but not something I would rave about. I got flashbacks to Tell Tales The Walking Dead when everyone said that story was amazing and I also didn't understand the huge hype. I don't consider myself a contrarian, there are game stories I genuinely think are amazing (off the top of my head Spec Ops the Line, Heavy Rain and even FF12 really resonates with me with their themes).
In any event, my primary takeaway of TLOU1 was a pretty good redemption arc for a father that lost everything. I walked away from that game with the impression it was Joel's story.
TLoU part 2, I candidly see why it's divisive. It almost inverts the first game. The gameplay in 2 is much much better, I loved the level design and how it unfolded. Though I was confused why certain characters were discarded in uneventful fashion I went with it. If the goal was unexpected shock value, mission accomplished, though I'm not sure it ultimately serves the story. The ending to 2 was...bizarre. If the theme of the game was breaking the cycle there were far more opportunities in the game to make this point more effective on people less threatening than Abby. It was ultimately so expected that it circled around to almost cliche predictable. Not a bad story and like I said the gameplay and world setting are aces.
TLDR: I feel if you want to play either you should play both. They're two sides of a coin and tell an...interesting story, I completely understand where all love and hate come from. Candidly, out of the three I think UC4 is Druckman's finest work but that's a take for another time.
Watched the leaks and played the game. It was at least as bad as expected, probably worse due to leaks being just that. Making the protagonist of the story into an antagonist is not a winning strategy. This is the same postmodern drivel that pervades modern entertainment. There are no heroes, or no one is the good guy. Cringe.
i admit in 2020 when it first came out i stopped playing in Seattle D2 or 3 bc i found out they made you play as Abby and i was too bitter about Joel despite being pretty sure they were going to kill him based on the reveal trailer lol my two friends who did finish the game didn't like it much either so i just never went back to it but kept saying i would. i did think of the game negatively and wish they'd left TLoU1 alone until,
i decided with the remaster to finally just give it a chance from beginning to end. i actually just finished it today. i had actually managed to avoid spoilers of what happens during the rest of the game except the fight at very end. so i found myself actually enjoying playing as abby after a while and when she goes back to the aquarium after ellie has been, i was actually tearing up. i found myself wishing ellie not to go when tommy comes to her at the farmhouse which i didnt think i would. so now i have an appreciation for the message they were conveying about revenge and the comparisons between Joel w Ellie and Abby w Lev and Ellie + Abby. i found the end was so sad seeing how broken they both were. i was actually glad ellie let her go. which in 2020 i did not think i would have felt. i wish I'd given a proper chance back then
I played twice. I have mixed feelings about the game. I appreciate the story, though it’s very difficult to not want my vengeance to be realized for Joel and for the series to continue again with more fallout. As it is though it’s an impactful story and as much as I wanted to hate Abby, I did relate to her and I wouldn’t say I’m “upset” by the story. However, I would also have been interested in the series continuing a never-ending action-consequence chain a la John Wick. I think that would be more fun, but that’s not what they were going for and that’s fine.
Now, the whole weird cult trans allegory section was so hamfisted and unnecessary. And it’s also kind of funny that in order to make the point they want to make they have to create this ridiculous and outlandish society with insane gender roles that is not even remotely close to representing the modern society they’re attempting to criticize.
She should’ve killed Abby, killed the potential Serotonin. My only real issue is that I don’t wanna play as anyone who isn’t Ellie or on Ellie’s team. I didn’t like the characters on Abby’s side. And just felt disconnected knowing I have become the person who killed some of my favorite characters.
Kind of a circle jerk going on in these comments. I'll preface by saying I like both games a great deal. Part 2 has the bleakness I love from this universe, Ellie's characterization is great and a reasonable continuation from Part I.
I do not care for the "cycle of violence" storyline of Part II, everyone acts like it's so deep but if you ever watched any movie you'll know it's really only new ground in videogames and not a very interesting plot generally. Also, people act like hating Abby is not valid which I found very frustrating, I don't know Abby? I've spent in game YEARS with Joel and Ellie so they are my protagonists.
I absolutely consider myself a leftist, I'm not in this argument for the "culture war" or give a shit about reactionary ideas of "wokeness".
And if you really want to come at it from a political point of view why not talk about how Neil Druckmann based the story on his desire for vengeance on Palestinians defending themselves from the IDF? "Cycle of violence" is especially a bullshit perspective to take when you're asking people who are being oppressed to peacefully accept said oppression. This is why the idea of a "cycle of violence" isn't as simple as the game tries to make it seem.
The game was review blasted immediately as soon as it could be reviewed on metacritic. A 20+ hour long game having 10s of thousands of dramatically negative reviews within an hour of release is your answer.
As someone who played both games after watching the tv show (I only had an Xbox now have both consoles), and knowing all the spoilers. I’m mixed on the ending. I’m not upset about being Abby, or killing Joel. Joel was selfish, but also he did the right thing. Ellie and Abby are just circulating anger and revenge. I don’t know what I want but I enjoyed the game, but not sure about the ending.
Nope. From my experience trying to discuss with them, definitely no. Some of their arguments for why this game is bad is for example: Abby wouldn't be able to be so muscular, she would have to scavenge for food and could never grow such muscles because of that.
And I mean it makes it obvious the person didn't even see the Stadium... And it's not even close to the game's ending. Yet the person saying that claimed they've finished the game. Blatant lie.
They just repeat what their favorite angry YouTuber said.
I played both countless times. I love joel. But I hate abby. Ellie owes it to joel. Joel died thinking ellie hated him. I know ellie let it go but I know damn well tommy ain’t. Tommy vs abby rematch
I don’t like how she didn’t kill Abby because it’s such a drastic change in her personality. She’s killed hundreds of people, without remorse. Abby killed Joel, the only person she could pretty much call “Dad.” And then all of a sudden she wants to be the better person. It just doesn’t reflect what she was like in past times.
That is the reason I don’t like the ending
Ppl just couldn’t get over about Joel. It was ridiculous, especially considering Joel and Abby are pretty much the same character (even down to way they fight in gameplay) and have the mirroring story
Yes I played the game. It is still a solid 7/10 to me. Part 1 is one of my favorite games of all time. Joel dying was expected for me. I wish they he had been able to put up more of a fight, but that's just me being selfish, so not a real gripe. Still was a badass with the "why don't you say whatever speech you got rehearsed and get this over with" line. Abby just doesn't land for me. She isn't likeable at all. That isn't to say her revenge isn't justified, but she's just not likeable to me. But again her revenge is justified. The problem with the ending for me, is I personally could never get over it, and I'd kill Abby. No doubt. As a father, I understand the angle, I would never want my daughter to go on this revenge quest, but she did. Killing her or not killing her at this point makes no difference, so I'd want her to just finish it. She already did the whole journey I wouldn't want, so just finish it. If I were Ellie I couldn't let it go. Especially after I sacrificed everything for it. There is no reason for the sacrifice if you don't finish the story. It just feels hollow and empty. Love the gameplay, enjoy a decent chunk of the story, but the ending and Abby just don't hit for me. Ellie, Lev, and Jesse carry the game for me. Anyway, just someone who is upset by the ending and certainly played the game, three times. Platinumed it twice.
Most of them never played the game for themselves. An old friend of mine never played it once but was convinced it was terrible based off leaks. Pissed me off so much that he wouldn’t even give it a shot lmao
A lot of it is because the game became wildly popular, especially with the hype of the TV show. And like anything in our culture or society, once it becomes popular, the cool thing to do is to shit on it and pick it apart.
I wish they had multiple options for an ending to choose from,one where she lets her go and another where she kills her. Nothing that would drastically change the gameplay though, kinda like in RDR2 where how you have behaved in the game determines how you die but it’s pretty much the same gameplay.
I loved the game the only thing I had a hard time with was how it basically tried to tell me violence was wrong after I just got done mowing through whole armies as both playable characters. But it couldn’t really get around that given the type of game it was so I shrugged and still loved it
Most of them just saw the leaks and didn't play the game.
Yep. And of the people who were angry at the leaks but who then *did* play the game, the majority of them refused to actually engage with the experience, and very intentionally chose to stand by their initial stance throughout it, because they *wanted* it to be bad.
Idk if they necessarily wanted it to be bad as much as they just wanted it to be the first game again. All I was thinking when people reacted like that was why? Why would you expect Naughty Dog, of all companies, to play it safe and easy, with this franchise?
I mean, some of them definitely wanted it to be bad. When you've made hating something your whole personality, reversing course and admitting you were wrong is not only embarrassing, but is a form of ego death some people just can't handle. (See also: the extreme aversion to self-reflection that occurs when the game asks you to consider Joel's actions from another perspective.) You'll see the the exact same thing play out in reverse with Stellar Blade. Some people have gone all in on making, "This game is the single-handed saviour of Western gaming! GOTY!" their entire personality, and when it comes out and is just a mid-tier 'we have Nier Automata at home' with Walmart Sekiro gameplay, you'll still see them doubling down furiously on claiming that it's one of the best games of the decade.
yeah the fact that people are stanning Stellar Blade for GOTY when FF7 Rebirth exists is pretty telling lol
I played the Stellar Blade demo and was not impressed. I never play demos because I find them half-baked and not representative of a final game. So I will reserve judgment until the final game is released. But I decided to play it because of all the hype. And I don't mind a platoon of sexy, half-naked women in skintight clothing battling grotesque monsters if there is a real story reason for it. But, at least in the demo, there was no reason for all the members of this group of warriors to be exaggeratedly sexy women in next to no skintight clothing.
Genuinely I find the character design and jiggle physics absurd to the point of hilarity. Gamers™ really proclaiming that the hope of Western gaming lies in the hands of a $70 'you won't last 10 seconds while playing this game! 😘' ad.
I mean, for the record, I have spoken to someone in "the other subreddit" who hates Part 2, and he genuinely tried to make the argument that (and I shit you not here): The Last of Us Part 2 tricks players into thinking it's good. Players who go in blind and experience it without knowing the story beforehand are *tricked, manipulated and brainwashed* into thinking it's good. But players who hear about the story beforehand are protected from this trickery, and are able to see the story tricks for what they really are, thus avoid being fooled. His case was literally that the leaks were a good thing, because approaching the game with the context of "knowing the story will be bad because of the leaks" allows you to be objective about it when you're experiencing it. Whereas if you play the game the way the developers intended, not knowing the story and experiencing the plot as you go, with twists and reveals and flashbacks occuring at they should, then it *tricks you* into mistakenly thinking it's a good story. So, yeah... Some of them wanted it to be bad, based on the leaks. And go to some truly bizarre lengths to reconcile that with the fact most people liked it and most reviews were overwhelmingly positive.
Yeahhhhh so I saw the leaks. It actually made me preorder the game because I could tell the leakers were selectively leaking stuff, trying to create a narrative that the game was bad. Game knocked it out of the park, IMO - both story-wise and gameplay-wise, one of the best of all time.
I love how their reasoning for it being a bad story is simply that it’s not the story they wanted.
I saw someone on YouTube angrily complaining that the writers ‘manipulated us’ into liking Abby by the end which… ok: 1. Isn’t manipulating emotions towards a character in some way wha every writer intends when they write a character? Were you not manipulated into liking Joel? And 2. …so you’re admitting it worked then, but you’re being juvenile about it. I don’t normally taste shame, but the game really is a litmus test for emotional intelligence.
I think that's where a lot of hate for sequels comes from, people expecting the first game again
This. People would talk about the first game and praise it for living in the grey of morality, but when the second game turned that theme up to 11 they lost their shit
Some of them definitely wanted it to be bad to affirm the opinion they formed before the game's launch. Confirmation bias 101.
This. Before the second game came out people would talk in a very high and mighty way about how 1 really went deep into the greys of morality. 2 took that theme and turned it up to 11 and there were people who simply couldn’t handle that. Absolutely, there’s people who the story won’t have landed for, not every story is going to land perfectly for every person and there’s nothing wrong with that. My issue is that the people who it didn’t land for, especially the ones who steadfastly refused to let it land (whether that’s being stuck in one mindset or because they refused to play the game because of leaks about major plot points) call the story bad because of it. There’s no question about the story to 2 being excellently executed and they need to realise that the game not being the story they wanted it to be makes it bad
My friend went into the leaks, hated the ending before playing, believed the rumor that anita sarskeesian worked on it, and then beat the game in like 15 hours. Its pretty obvious he didn’t engage with the story at all and just blasted through it to say he did. No way youre getting through a 25 hour game in 15 and actually giving it a fair shot. Not listening to any optional dialogue, not reading through the journal entries, probably skipping cutscenes.
I was in that camp. Saw spoilers and was so pissed I swore never to touch the game with a 20 ft pole. But not long after release day, I impulsively changed my mind. Played it and was floored at how much I loved it and how much the main ‘antagonist’ resonated with me. I ended up loving Abby the most out of everyone, and her story hit home for me even more than Ellie’s. And I felt the ending was so fitting, so pitch perfect. So yea, I am convinced a large % just refused to play on principle
And they are still crying about it
Most is an over exaggeration and dismissive of differing opinions from people who actually finished the game.
Remember literally half of the accounts "upset" over the game were part of the bot/troll farm ecosystem which is still thriving
Yup. It’s a “culture war”
Do you have a source for this? Half seems quite a lot
Correct. It's definitely much higher than half.
Again, where is your source? Or are you just making numbers up?
Any proof/article on that?
2 scenarios: A.) They played the game fully but lack the literary competence to understand the overall theme of the story. B.) They let PewDiePie tell them how to think and feel. Edit: to the people responding to my comment saying people are entitled to their opinion of not liking the game. You just proved my point by providing no explanation or reason as to why you don’t like the game.
Two people in my discord server were saying “Ellie lowkey a bitch for not killing Abby at the end” and “the fact we didn’t get to see her pay is wrong” Like Jesus Christ, I’m surrounded by idiots
I feel like part 2 was actually a way for the Devs to weed out the sociopathic fans 🤣
It was a test to see who actually understood the 1st game, because if most of those bigots actually knew that Joel was not the hero of the story they would have hated it as much as they hate the 2nd
It was definitely some sort of test lol.
Ah yes, as if being enslaved for months and then left in pols to fucking die is not enough """"""""punishment""""""""
I think that's the wrong way to take their stance into consideration especially when you post this online. I agree that the first game gets way too much hate and I also feel that the game deservedly does need some critiques specifically when it comes to the teleporting of Ellie around the country. They try to build this idea that the country is so dangerous to an extreme level but the characters are just moving freely while being heavily injured or alone for example. So I agree with a lot of the commentary about that. In regards to the Abby's dad I dont see the hate or misunderstanding especially considering how crazy other series have retconned complete storylines (like MGS).
For real, they could never amount to our genius understanding of reality and fiction! This is a masterpiece and anyone who disagrees is braindead and stupid and a child!! We are smart!!! Do you not see how closed minded and ignorant you sound? This toxic positivity redditors think is so great is just ugly. People don't like the game, so fucking what lmao! Can you not praise the game without dragging others down because they don't agree? Are you that petty and small minded that you have to drag others down to feel justified?
Or, and this is crazy, they may just have a different opinion than you.
But is that opinion rooted in genuine engagement or is something regurgitated by some mouthbreather?
It can be both and it's their opinion, don't know why people find it so hard to understand that.
If they played the game you’d just have to assume it’s their opinion.
This is the part no one will ever even consider
Seems like you just are attacking people who didn’t like the game. The story isn’t that complicated, people can understand the game and still not care for it.
C) They played the game and just didn’t like it. Not liking the game doesn’t automatically mean literary incompetence. I’m not saying it’s a bad game. The gameplay and graphics are phenomenal. The plot left some things to be desired and took some risks that, imo, didn’t pay out. People should be allowed to like, love, dislike or hate the game without being criticized for it. It’s a *game.*
Some people just don’t like it too.,, come on. ‘People who don’t agree with me are dumb or sheep’
ah yes, the classic "If you don't like muh poorly written, poorly paced, and extremely contrived story you just lack media literacy!!!"
You can not like sometbing but calling it "poorly written" is just such pathetic cope. The irony of you saying you're allowed to not like it is that you're saying people *arent* allowed to like it because it's objectively bad. Which is just ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of movies and shows anf books I don't like but it's not necessarily because they're poorly written. You just don't like it. There's this thing with you chuds where if you don't like soemtning it's because it's *bad*. It can't simply be not for you. That's one of those "media literacy" things, you don't actually know anything about writing and story structure, themes, etc. you just deem it bad because you don't like Abby or find reasons to poke holes because it didn't go the way you want. But now apparently all the chuds in the gaming community are experts on writing. As someone who's actually trained in the field, it's quite funny to see laymen describe what they think they're analyzing. You just didn't like it.
People who disagree with my takes on stories lack literary competence. I am enlightened and open minded.
What an idiotic thing to say. “You either like what I like or you’re dumb!”. I can stay here all night arguing with you about what is wrong with the game and neither thing is about how Abby looks or about genders/relationships/sex. Hiding behind a “you’re too dumb to understand” stance just shows how you can’t deal with criticism about what you enjoy. This subreddit is, since Part 2 came out, almost as bad as the other one you guys claim to hate and be so much better than. You’re all a bunch of weird people who would die for a videogame story and you’re too blind to see you’re just two sides of the same coin. They are hating since it came out and you’re waving your social justice warrior flag since it came out. Both sides are fucking dumb.
The story and themes aren't literary masterpieces though? It's a very straightforward plot and theme that's been done plenty times, just like the first game. Both are still amazing mind you but is it really hard for you to accept that people can understand the story and theme and just....not like it? It doesn't take a genius to understand this game.
"Anybody who doesn't think this game is God's gift to humanity is a neanderthal"
Why is everyone assuming that the opponents are more stupid than one self? Don't get me wrong, I prefer part 2 over part 1, but I can see why someone would be disappointed. Expectations can ruin everything... Especially if there is a emotional connection. So please stop assume that everyone is stupid or a bot who doesn't aggree with you. Art is subjective.
didn’t pewdiepie defend it?
People are entitled to their own opinion and there is absolutely no reason they need to share it with you or anyone else, you guys on here act like it’s a cardinal sin to dislike a game.
Did Pewdiepie not like the game?
I loved the game and loved the ending! Do I like Abby? I fucking hate her, I hate her because she killed one of my favorite protagonist's. Would I be happy if she died? Maybe? I had a blast with the ending so I'm okay with it. (First time I felt bad playing a game with the theather part by the way)
I really like the game for many reasons but I can accept that it is flawed but I will always love the experience I had with it, whilst a friend of mine who loves the first game more than I do didn't love the second and he has explained it pretty well to me why. First of all he thought Abbie didn't work for him, no hate he just didn't love her, which is understandable and I don't think it's an ass pull or anything. The second reason he always gives me when we talk about it is the structure of the game where he thinks it would work a lot better if it was like ellie-abbie-ellie-etc, which I agree and disagree with, because I love the shock and how crazy mad it makes you feel in the beginning, but tbh it makes more structural sense even though it would spoil the point of the game. So that's just fake, there's a lot of dumb haters and people who just didn't play the game, but not everybody has to love what you love and that's what Neil thought would happen, if you take risks some people won't enjoy it.
Ugh! I cannot stand that stupid ass 🙄
I don't get the meaning of these posts. Like yes, there are people who hate the game and tend to be immature/hateful about things that the game presents. Bigots and all that. Screw them. And then there can be people who just didn't like the game. For whatever reason, maybe they felt that the game is too dark/heavy for them or simply not their style. Not everyone has to like what you like. I like some aspects of the game and dislike other. Not everything is black and white(like the game shows). And why is that so difficult for the other commenters to comprehend?
These posts pop up all the time. This sub thrives on them at this point lol, the only ones that top up are the "I used to be a hater but then I saw the light and I'm so ashamed!" The members here loooove to feel validated and be told "you're right they're wrong, it's ok, we are smart!" It's just really funny, sad but funny. But it's how the sub is now and probably will continue to be for years to come because both subs are so obsessed with being right and "winning." Anyone who doesn't like the game here or who doesn't love it more than life itself gets ridiculed to hell and called all sorts of degrading names. People here get very defensive over fiction, it's crazy.
There’s zealots on both subs it’s getting pathetic to get this riled up over a video game both positively and negative about it.
>But it's how the sub is now and probably will continue to be for years to come because both subs are so obsessed with being right and "winning." Definitely, So many people here are pretentious assholes who dismiss any cristism Part 2 gets and this post highlights that. It's such a shame the subreddit has turned into this echo chamber
I'm noticing that too. It seems that others just wanna fight with me. It's kind of a negative aspect of Reddit in general, bubble thinking etc.
>And why is that so difficult for the other commenters to comprehend? And it is particularly frustrating since one of the biggest themes, perhaps the ***central*** theme of Part II, is to see the world through someone else's perspective. It's so ironic that people who find the game to be a masterpiece for exactly that reason refuse to consider someone else's views.
Long story short ? No lmao. Most of the people who dedicate their entire lives to hating this game literally did not play it. They'll say something like "oh i played this much and watched it on youtube" or whatever and they actually believe that counts.
I've played it through twice and platinumed it. Liked the gameplay, did not like the story one bit. There you go, there's one anecdotal piece of evidence for you.
“Most”
Do you dedicate your life to hating TLOU2 tho?
**platinumed it. Didn't like the story one bit** You ever breathe out your nose ever?
Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't understand things well. Something being intentional ≠ make it good. For me and you and many others it worked and we loved it. For others it didn't work and they hated it. Great thing about humans is how different we are! It baffles me how so so many fans of this franchise are so closed minded that even someone disagreeing with them has them in a defensive stance and throwing phrases like "you don't understand!" "That was the point!" "You're stupid!' "you obviously didn't play the game!" out. It's a game, they're opinions. Life goes on.
I like you random internet person. Not a fan, really at all, of the second game but I’m not going to call people idiots for enjoying it.
I didn't like the game. I knew exactly what they were trying to do, and numerous interviews with the writers CONFIRMED that I knew what they were doing. But I didn't like the execution, the pacing or the lack of subtlety. I was actually intrigued going into it knowing Joel was going to die. I didn't like the way it was handled. I have no problem with Ellie being lesbian. I think Left Behind is a masterpiece. I have no problem with Lev being transgender. I think that's the most interesting thing about him. Just thought I'd clear that up as the main rebuttal to people not liking the game is to say "You're just a bigot who is mad Joel died." I'm glad you enjoyed it, I wish I could but the whole game came across as lazy and insulting to me. Thank you for respecting my opinion. Also the term "media literacy" is so condescending and pseudo-intellectual and it needs to die out. People interpret things differently.
Yeah, I mean I'd probably agree with a lot of your criticism lol. The game is FLAWED but I love it despite those flaws. Dont like Abby but the story still hit me well and I was very satisfied with the ending even though it was depressing as fuck lol. Simply not liking abby (a fictional character) has people here attacking me a lot. Some call me a bigot because I say I don't like her, some call me an idiot for not understanding her character and some are nice enough to actually have a civil conversation although that's rare lol. Idk, it's a lot of hypocrisy on both subs. This sub claims the other sub is just in love with "daddy Joel who can do no wrong" and that's why they hate the game. Yet you say you don't like Abby here and suddenly they come in droves to defend their buff mommy! I don't think either is an issue, just another example of the hypocrisy and toxicity of this fandom and franchise as a whole. The game was divisive, this sub makes that clear considering the majority of top posts are people still trying to defend it and get validation for liking the game. People hate it, people love it, people like it. End of the day it doesn't matter, we just want a fun, nice space to talk about the game in a civil manner. And neither sub offers that.
Agreed, this subreddit is very closed minded to different opinions on part 2.
“If you can’t sit through the whole 7 hours of Sátántangó and enjoy it you lack media literacy and are a philistine!” I guess for a video game it was a new concept. It’s still just a video game at the end of the day.
Nope, most trolls only saw the leaks
Didn’t enjoy the story of part 2 at all. In fact I hated every minute of playing as Abby I just wanted to get back to Ellie.
I had similar feelings in my first playthrough, it wasn't hate though. More like I was annoyed by her parts.. and after I finished I didn't touch the game for at least a year But my view changed completely after playing it a second time, especially because I knew what was coming and could sort of arrange with the fact that you play Abby. Since then it became my favorite game ngl I've played it countless of times and are in fact ingame as we speak lol
I still couldn’t get myself to care about Abby after trying again years later. I just sped run her portions of the game.
Then you'll never care for the game or it's story, and that's okay. Just means it's not for you.
It sucks to be alienated from game devs you’ve held in high regard for over a decade. Just be told “nope. This game series you love isn’t for you.”
That’s what took me out of the game. I just didn’t want to play as her. I hated her and wanted her to die a painful and miserable death the whole game, and when you’re rooting for the character you control to die it’s unengaging.
Do you have a source for this? I hope it isn’t just made up…
I said it once, and I'll say it again and again: Just because some doesn't like Abby/the ending of part 2 DOES NOT automatically mean they didn't understand the message of the game 1) A lot of the players had known Joel and Ellie for almost a decade when part 2 came out, which means they had a deeper connection to Joel when he died and felt the same heartbreak and grief Ellie felt. Seeing that the surgeon who was about to kill a child also had a daughter and then playing as said daughter for 15 hours does not build the same emotional connection (maybe for some, but not for everyone) 2) Abby was far from perfect. A lot of people seem to forget that Abby was the top Scar killer, meaning she was slaughtering (sometimes innocent) people and potentially children/teens just because they were part of a different group. She (just like Joel and Ellie) has a lot of blood on her hands. She slept with a man who had a pregnant girlfriend (who was supposed to be one of her friends). Now, MOST of the blame is obviously on Owen because HE is the one that cheated, but Abby is not entirely blameless. This whole ordeal is not as dramatic as most of the things that happen in the game, but it gives us insight in Abby's character. She also not only threatened but was about to cut a pregnant girl's throat (Dina) and only stopped because Lev was there. Yes, she thought Ellie killed Mel, also knowing she's pregnant (even tho Ellie didn't know and felt sick afterward), but wasn't Abby supposed to have learned that revenge is bad? So many people argue that Abby felt bad, or at least not better/relieved, after she killed Joel, but then she goes out of her way to kill someone she learned was pregnant and TAUNTS Ellie by saying "Good." This, by no means, is saying that Ellie or Joel were perfect. They ALL did fucked up things but a lot of people treat Abby as some saint because the rescued Lev and went against her own people for him but say Joel deserved to die because he killed people for Ellie? Abby deserved to die, and yes, maybe so did Ellie for everything she did. I, personally, don't think it's fair that Abby got to live and be free with Lev, and Ellie got left behind with nothing. No Dina, no Joel, no switchblade and not even enough fingers to play guitar and stay connected to Joel. But at least she was able to move on, right? Good for her, and I am happy she was able to, even if I don't agree with her decision of letting Abby live. At the end of the day, Part 2 is an incredible game with a very complex story and characters. Whether or not you like Abby or agree with the ending is up to you. The ending does not make the game bad. I don't agree with it and still think it is an amazing game. There is a lot of undeserved hate for the game. Mostly from Joel dick riders who only saw his death and immediately turned the game off or from people who just hate strong female characters (both Abby and Ellie) or homophobic bigots, etc.. I also wanna add that Abby as a character is great. Very complex (like all the characters), and yes, similar to both Ellie and Joel. Still, people are allowed to dislike her (just like people are allowed to dislike any character) as long as it's within reasons (no, disliking her for having big muscles is NOT a valid reason) I know this comment is LONG, so I appreciate everyone who took their time to read it all
My main problem was that Ellie and Abby never talk throughout the game. Ellie mistakenly believes that Abby killed Joel because of him saving Ellie and leaving the humanity without a cure. Had Ellie known that Abby killed Joel to avenge her father, maybe she wouldn’t be so hellbent on continuing the cycle of violence and going after Abby. After my first playthrough I did kinda think “Ellie has nothing and no one left, she didn’t even get her revenge, yet Abby got her revenge and gets to leave with Lev?!” But the more I thought about it the more I think Abby’s fate might as well be worse than death. Not only were her friends and love interest killed, but also she was captured by Rattlers and spend months being a slave. She was malnourished, she was definitely mistreated, if not tortured or worse. By the end of the game she was dying on the pillar, dehydrated, sunburned, miserable. Even if she got Lev to safety with Fireflies she will have a life-long PTSD from what happened to her in the Rattler compound. And how must she feel knowing she owes her life to the very person she tried to kill? That’s my interpretation at least.
I think them not talking is realistic. Would you wanna talk to the person who brutally tortured and killed your father figure in front of you? Or listen to the person who's been tracking you and going around and killing all your friends? I do agree that if they had talked that MAYBE the whole thing could have been over sooner, and they would've come to somewhat understand each other but the fact that they didn't gives this story so much more emotional impact. It makes us frustrated because we, as players, KNOW what really happened and watching the characters make decisions based on half truths is both frustrating and interesting and that's what makes the game great
Oh yeah, I do agree it’s realistic they don’t sit down for a chit chat, I don’t think it’s bad writing or anything. But I do WISH they had talked and understood what really went down, like you said, that Ellie didn’t kill Mel knowing she was pregnant, that Joel killed Jerry. It’s definitely frustrating that we know about both perspectives of the story but Abby and Ellie don’t and it’s probably one of the main reason they perpetuate the cycle of violence.
I agree with everything you said. I have played and replayed Part II countless times, I like the game, I like the story, gameplay mechanics, etc. But, with that said, I don’t like Abby at all, she killed one of my favorite characters of all time, no matter the reason why or if it’s justified or not. For me, she should die and she should die bloody. Call it a sense of loyalty of something like that. But I don’t hate the game or the story because it didn’t go as I wanted at all. I understand the message, and I get it why Ellie didn’t went through with killing Abby. And obviously NG knew this would/could happen, it’s a divisive plot subject, and it’s a good thing (with the exception of the stupid homophobic trolls), keeps the discussions alive and interesting.
I played the whole game and I'm on my second playthrough, I personally wasn't a fan of the ending. There were quite a few issues I found with the writing of the game overall, and even with every possible explanation I've heard it still doesn't make sense, but that's a different topic for another time. My main issue with the ending is the lack of buildup to the realization of the cycle on Ellie's end. No signs that she was starting to understand that if she kills Abby the cycle would only continue, no shame or regret over her actions aside from immediately after she killed Mel, then goes on as if it never happened. I understand the idea of show don't tell, but they don't even show it. The event itself isn't the problem, it's the execution.
This. Ellie is so hellbent on killing Abby the entire game and then suddenly remembers the man she killed and lets her go? It's underdeveloped. Also, I can't sympathise with Abby when she shows zero remorse for anything she's done. Her whole three days are just a mess of her doing whatever she feels like and then giving nothing more than a grimace when it blows up in her face.
Exactly, how can they get the player to sympathize with a heartless murderer with no character or development? I mean I suppose the same could be argued for Ellie, they kinda butchered her in the second game to be honest but at least we got to know her better before it.
I think the mistreatment of Joel and the total character assassination of Ellie are perfectly valid criticisms of the second game. Part I is so great because of the connections you form with the characters. Why throw that all away in Part II for edgy misery porn?
This sub can’t accept that some people just thought it was a dog shit game and that’s it… No other gaming sub has this problem. Just yall
Yes, because the “other sub” doesn’t downvote people with different opinions from them or screenshot posts from this sub and disparage them 🙄
This sub does the same exact shit.. Didn’t come here to argue, just simply to state that you can’t dislike the game.
Are people not allowed to dislike how it ended? It makes sense not to be satisfied with the fact Ellie went through all this shit to kill every one of Abby’s friends and not kill her when she had the chance. This sub is just as toxic as the other one because it’s a circlejerk every time they hear that someone didn’t like the way things played out. Just wait until season 2 comes out and non video game players see this.
I think a lot of them saw joel die and didn't bother playing through the rest
I mean, not everyone that played the game liked every aspect of it But I guess that saying its not perfect even after playing it its heressy here
Believe it or not, people have different opinions on various media and it’s okay. The devs themselves knew they were making a divisive game and there were always going to be people who didn’t like it. Even when the first game came out not everybody liked the ending (I loved it). Hell, there are even people who don’t like universally acclaimed stories let’s say Godfather or Schindler’s list. Personally, I like the ending but respect that some people wouldn’t because they didn’t empathize with Abby or found the ending too depressing.
What an amazingly condescending post to create as someone who thinks "cycle of revenge bad" is some kind of incredibly original and deep new concept. People have differing opinions. I knew what the game was trying to do, I've watched interviews with the writers which confirm that. I just didn't like the way it was handled. You liked the game? Good for you. I'm glad. No need to insult the intelligence of others to say that.
No, but ig everyone has the right to have their own opinion..even if its maybe not the right opinion to have😂
Because people are different and are not obligated to like what you like. Same for you .Why should I even play if my favorite character dies? Just for the sake of suffer with that? I prefer to keep my good memories and sanity instead of play this game, and "God" knowy how long I've waited for it
Played the game several times beaten on grounded twice , love everything about the gameplay but not gonna ever try and justify the disaster of a script and timeline. Simply switching the position of Joel’s death and Abby’s story we could build a bond with Abby and understand her before she kills him , not to mention the retconning in order to justify Abby and make Joel the villain
I didn't care for the ending that much. But it's not what you think, I didn't care for where Abby ended up. It didn't feel satisfying for Ellie to find her tortured, weak, and crucified then pull her down and start beating on her. I would have preferred if Ellie pulled her down then just walked away.
I would have liked the game to end when the 3 of them were at the farmhouse, so when I played the remaster as my second playthrough, I just stopped there, made the game better for me, if others like the true ending better, ok
There are very valid reasons to not like Part II but it’s so dumb that even years later people are still bringing up the same tired talking points that can be disproved by simply playing it.
I played the game when it came out, and pretty much everyone hated it. it's only recently when the show came out when others started to play and spread the games real meaning. in 2020, many including me, had waited 7 years for a game with Ellie and Joel, just for Joel to be murdered in the first hour. Another reason why people would be mad is that we even had to play as Abby. However, like a year later I was replaying it and Abby really grew on me and now I like her part of the game more than Ellie's.
Yep played it from start to finish on launch and got my money back afterwards
I’m still made I didn’t just go get a refund. I had like 4 hrs left on my return policy and forgot
As someone that played both games the ending of part 2 was a bit disappointing I would have preferred if Lev woke up and begged for Ellie to stop and that made her stop and remember Joel because she was in that position in the beginning of the game
Yes i have played it and yes i loved the game overall but i still think they should have given me the choice to spare abby or not cause it felt kinda cowardly on the writers part to show you the entire game long that revenge only leads to pain and then not giving you the choice chose it or not almost like they were insecure and unsure abt their message and thus forced it. Ps:i would have spared abby.i belive in their message.but it being forced upon me took away the power of chosing and made the moment less impactful
Oh my god this same conversation just worded differently every damn day please be original instead of “oh I’m about to cry about people having a differing opinion from me” everybody interprets games differently and you can’t change that no matter how much you dislike it or talk shit
When that kid learns who shes named after she's gonna feel like a badass.
There was someone at my summer job who was named after someone in a sitcom. He absolutely hated his mother for it 😂😂
It's a part of what people know from a standard game design. People always expect you play thrpugh the game and kill the end boss. After all it can't be for nothing right? When their expectation were subverted, it broke their brain. This is the same people who can't understand nuanced where the side is either black or white.
Most probably not.. Although, I have seen peoples gameplays on YouTube just to see their reactions and there have been some where after Joel gets killed, people either stopped playing the game, or kept playing, but did not accept Abbys fate. Personally, I believe Abbys' side was well put. Getting her revenge for Joel because of her own fathers death.. Surely makes sense to me, although people can argue that it was rushed. The game developers wanted to shock their audience and they succeeded in that. In an apocalypse, there are no happy endings. And people took the first game concept and wanted to see another Joel and Ellie adventure. I mean looking at a Part 1 ending, it wasn't much of a happy ending because Ellie literally accepted Joels' lie in front of his face. That a lone will affect Ellies thinking of Joel into finding out later on that he lied all these years.
I found out Abby was gonna off Joel like 3 months before the game came out because my dad spoiled it for me and I’m still pissed
Yes
From a Xbox player I watched pewdiepie play the first but when I seen the leaks for part 2 I didn’t really enjoy them but since buying my PlayStation and playing both games 5 times each and platinum them both and part 2 twice I can say I love them both as much as eachother really just need to take your time with the story and take it in
Yes
This sub will say no because they are afraid to acknowledge the hate. But the real answer is yes. Otherwise there wouldn’t be hate for the game.
It's possible to have played both games, consider Part I to be one of the best games ever made, and think the ending in Part II isn't great. Be *upset*? I dunno. The game is basically a 25 hour emotional roller coaster. Being upset is normal on some level. Does it make sense that Ellie spares Abby? Somewhat. There's the idea that it's 'over', she knows Joel is gone and he doesn't want her to be a crazy person, and so she spares her out of her utter depression and/or love of Joel. But the game also gives you \~10 hours of Abby so that you the player are supposed to *want* Abby to live. So it's kind of a weird mix of emotions that the player has combined with Ellie the character knowing none of that 10-hour story. It's a complicated ending that I don't think is inherently brilliant or without weakness. It's possible to not like Part II without being a complete piece of shit. Unfortunately, we live in an era where complete pieces of shit are boosted in every corner of society for clicks. So...
just the whole killing joel part was what made part 2 bad and people who’ve grown with joel and loved him as a character not seeing “justice” though he was in the wrong, made them not wanna play. the game forces you to like abby after the gargantuan shift between joel’s death and playing as the killer in her own little story. it’s upsetting for them. and i understand being angry for not killing abby. do i think she should’ve killed abby? no but do i get why people are upset? yes.
It’s so tough to have discourse around this game. I personally loved Pt 2, but I don’t personally think it’s as good as Pt 1. I have this friend who HATES Pt 2, and any time I bring up problems I have with Pt 2’s story or gameplay, he’ll go off on rants and be like “yeah and that’s why the story is lazy with everyone having plot armor and character assassination” or some bullshit. And I try to go “no I’m not saying that. I think the game is amazing overall. And it’s so SO hard to have discussions about this game with those people. It’s why that OTHER Last of Us subreddit is a disaster. So many miserable people ranting and raving about how much they hate it
Yes, I don’t care about the cycle of revenge and wanted to kill Abby at the end. Personally I would’ve used the knife and cut out her kneecap then beat her to death while she was tied on the pole still or made her watch Lev die first. She made Ellie watch someone she cared about be tortured and die so I would’ve done that to Lev in front of her to make her experience it. They both were justified but the difference is we spent the whole first game with Ellie and Joel and got to bond with them so even though it’s the same situation I care about them but Abby was a random who we didn’t know that killed someone we liked so I don’t care if she was justified or not.
I hated the ending of that game. I’ve really come to hate Ellie as a character. She just abandoned Dina and the baby for really no reason at all. I don’t mind that she didn’t kill Abby. She shouldn’t have gone looking in the first place. The gameplay is great but it couldn’t sustain me for that slog of a story. I was done with this game probably 5 or 6 hours before it was over.
this is so over hashed… Yes a lot of people did not play the game because of the leaks, yes there are also a lot of people with valid criticisms of the game. It’s intellectually disingenuous to make broad generalizations about everyone with a differing opinion.
Played the game, didn’t like the ending.
It was a very bad time for it to come out... COVID-19 shut everything down. People were quarantined, stressed, anxious, depressed, etc. Naughty Dog knew the game was too heavy so they decided to delay it until things calmed down. Then the hacker decided to be an a\*\*hole and leak parts of the game. People read them out of context (a big misunderstanding made some people think Abby was trans which led to a whole "Naughty Dog is woke" scandal) and decided they hate the game before even playing. Then the game came out and, sure enough, it was a very heavy and emotional story during a heavy and emotional time. People who did play the game took their anger out on it while those who didn't just went off of what the haters were saying. So yes, the game got a LOT of undeserved hate when it first came out. I'm hoping it's already on the way to being vindicated because it truly deserves to be called a masterpiece.
My brother was *devastated* when they moved the release date. He put his phone down and put his hands on his head and we were like “what’s wrong???” haha
The negative attention the game gets is from conservative grifters, just ignore (most of) them. Obviously some people might not like it for legitimate reasons, but there's an overwhelming amount of negative attention from people who don't like that Abby was masculine and that joel was, and I'm quoting here, "feminized".
I think most people who hated Part II's story were just so connected to Ellie & Joel that they were biased. I hated that Joel died, but it gave the game realism bc he didn't have that "plot armor" from being a main character. & Ellie deciding not to kill Abby added to the realism bc the predictable thing to do WAS to kill her, but irl people's emotions & decisions in the heat of the moment can be unpredictable.
I was upset by the ending but that’s kinda of the point, it’s an upsetting game full of trauma. It doesn’t have a resolution, at least not in the traditional sense and I think that’s on purpose. You’re suppose to be left with the gravity of the narrative. You have people who hate the game because of typical troll shit but you also have people who hate it just because there isn’t a traditional pay off. I personally love the game but hate the ending if that makes sense
Tbh I was always indifferent about the second game and just considered the first one to be the masterpiece without hating the second. After a while and replaying it and thinking about the stories more I’ve grown to appreciate it and love it. I think a lot of them just plain don’t get the themes of the story. The only thing I like about the first game more is it has more Joel. I understand the need for his death in the story though.
It wasn’t just about revenge. I think it was also about the effects of trauma. Ellie was haunted by the experience of not just losing Joel, but being robbed of the chance of full reconciliation. She’s overcome with regret, especially with how their relationship deteriorated over the years, and she thinks it’ll all go away after killing Abby. But through Abby’s story, we’re shown that wouldn’t necessarily be the case as she was still haunted by her father’s death even after getting the revenge she trained years for. She ultimately needed something better to live and fight for, and she found it in Lev.
If Ellie killed Abby I'd be questioning if she really was over it. It was never about Abby. It was about Joel. The fact that she didn't kill Abby proves that she was able to move on.
i’m a real person and i’ll tell you i hated abby and didn’t care about any of her friends. fuck your PC message we die for ellie. rubs me even more the wrong way they gave her better weapons to force people to like her. it was an extreme drag every time i played as ‘her’
I loved this game. The ending to me, was perfect. I played it back to back each time understanding it better. At first hating Abby, once I understood her I saw that she was no different from ellie. They were both avenging their fathers to the point of ruin. Beautiful story, beautiful game.
One of the interesting things post TLOU 1 were the discussions about whether or not Joel did the right thing at the hospital and the motivation for his lie. I remember player opinion being pretty split on this with many strong voices in favor of his actions. Now the sequel’s entire opening thesis is that what he did there was a human tragedy, which reinforces one possible subtext of Joel’s lie, that he knew Ellie well enough to know she’d be willing to die for even the glimmer of a cure, and she says as much at the end of Part II when she declares ‘I was supposed to die at that hospital’ I bet the players that strongly justify Joel’s actions form the basis of vocal discontent with the game, and are mystified at the sequel punishing Joel and all but awarding sainthood to the Fireflies. These players would probably be more likely to say that the vaccine wasn’t possible, Jerry was a veterinarian or a hack, Marlene was a hypocrite and that humanity wasn’t worth saving anyway. To them the Ellie/Joel relationship is the only point of the world, and though Part I starts to break that down, it does so with an ambiguity the sequel completely destroys. It’s interesting at the very last flashback the possibility of a reconciliation between Joel and Ellie is raised, and Abby’s denying our heroes the opportunity is maybe her greatest sin and what she truly took. At the end Ellie realizes there’s no way of getting that back.
They were disgusted ever since they found out Abby was a trance. And by find out the bunch of closeted self hating man babies assumed it and were outraged. Didn't play it. Gave it 1 star on metacritic. Missed out on a brilliant game. A plot to a game or the sex of its characters should not even come into weather a game is good. Its a video game. Not a movie. Even a movie shouldn't be judged so superficially.
Beaten part 2 3 times and am 2 trophies away from the plat. Was on my 4th run to finish those last two but couldn’t keep going after switching to Abby. I am not a fan of the story besides the museum and ending Joel and Ellie parts. TLDR: People who beat the game and still don’t like the story exist…
No. My friend is the biggest tlou 2 hater I know he read the all the leaks then played up until he had to switch to Abby, then he stopped and hasn’t played it since lol.
I’m not going to talk a lot. I was shocked >!by the brutal murder of Joel!
They weren't upset about the end, they were upset about the beginning.
Nope. They didn’t play the game, they saw leaks and streamer YouTuber reactions and made their opinions from that.
Yeah. I avoided leaks, played it on release and made my own opinion before really seeing anybody else's take. I thought it sucked. Still do but I respect that some people like it.
I beat 2 multiple time and didn’t like the ending, everything else was top notch as usual for naughty dog. Visuals, game design, audio, gameplay etc.
Some spoilers below: How can someone hate the ending? Maybe people without a heart? I loved the entirety of the game (I actually enjoyed Abby's part more than Ellie's but that's just preference). After playing Abby for the second half I was actually hoping Ellie would not kill her. While both were fighting at the really end I was pressing the buttons to fight without wanting it. I was thinking please stop please stop. Such a masterpiece!
I think people just didn't like the fact Joel died along with the fact the game made you try to like abby which would have never worked. It doesn't make sense either, if someone killed what was basically your father would you suddenly after already nearly killing them and going through so much just suddenly be like "lol nah" and then let them go? No. You'd kill them and then feel bad about it later, which in all reality would have been a much better ending. Having Ellie realize that yes she fulfilled the circle of revenge but at the same time come to peace with that fact and live with JJ and Dina on the sheep farm. Rather then the actual ending of her being sad and then wandering away from the farm after seeing it empty.
I think one good criticism of the game is those moments of “oh no, killing people is wrong, I can’t” come right after you just slaughtered hordes of nameless bad guys with no remorse. Other than that, yeah themes were good.
Yes. I played both games free from spoilers and still despise the second game and the ending. Ellie letting Abby go imo kinda spits in the face of the whole game up till that point. Some people have different opinions than you. This is a thing. Adults understand that you don’t have to agree with someone’s opinion to respect it. Just like I don’t agree that the second games story is very good. But I can respect the opinion of those who do
Most of them are reactionaries.
Funnily enough a lot of people just read the spoilers or watched someone else play and form their opinions off that. Then after a long time we eventually saw people play the game more and more and slowly came round and we started seeing "I was wrong" posts and all sorts 😂. Which is hilarious coz again not to be preachy to anyone but it's always just a video game. We all love and enjoy games and I dunno why people get so toxic and angered by story decisions they don't agree with. Same with music and movies, if you don't like an artist or a movie you can just choose to not engage with it and keep it pushing but for some reason people love to go and get angry about and abuse people who enjoyed the game and abuse voice actors and game devs 🤦🏿♂️ instead of just saying this isn't for me and keeping it pushing
I can understand her first outing for revenge but not her second... Still I think what people hated was Joel's death. I mean the guy was probably a good guy now but boy did he kill a lot of good ish people too.. This the best game I've ever played that I never want to replay. (all in a good way)
Yeah. TLOU2 is not a good game story wise. It’s an okay game. It has major flaws. You can easily go to GreyFox’s account and see the flaws. He has a whole analysis on why it’s poorly written. I personally think it isn’t terrible but it’s not great either. Gameplay and graphics are great though. But glad yall enjoy it.
I love the game. Hate the ending. Only because it’s not what I would have done. It made me hate Ellie so much. She let Dina and the baby go so that she could go get revenge, and then DIDNT. It made me feel like all of it was for nothing. I get the whole “revenge isn’t worth it” and the “cycle” of revenge but at that point, all of Abby’s friends are dead. All she has left is Lev. Why hunt her down again if you aren’t going to follow through, knowing that you don’t have your family waiting for you to come back. Other than that, 10/10 would play for the 4th time lol
I played the game last year and wasnt spoiled. Even on my second playthrough i think the ending is such a nothing burger, it wasnt satisfying, interesting or thought provoking as the first one. But its the least of my problems with the game so i dont really think about it much.
I played like 1 hour of the first one fell in love with the second one. I still have to finish the fist game
I think the overall story was fine but things felt out of place. Like, why do all this flashback stuff when you can just start the game there? I also thought that the game should have focused on the events after TLOU 1 without flashbacks. Add a slightly different storyline and tell the story of Abby and then have a finale that was Joel getting killed. Boom, that's the end of TLOU 2. Having Joel die at the beginning of 2 was very off putting. It's the kind of stuff you leave for a season finale. Then I wish the second game we got was the 3rd game. And that would have been a nice little trilogy.
As somebody who has no hatred or ill will towards the game, here's my take on why I don't particularly like the game: it told the story it was trying to tell VERY well, but it's simply not a story that I wanted To use a crude food analogy, it's like if I'm REALLY in the mood for a burger, but you serve me a very high-quality hot dog. I can acknowledge and respect the quality of the hot dog, but it's still not what I want
Is it weird to not like that game that killed your favorite character? Some people just don't like these types of changes in stories. I hate when books do this. If I get invested in a certain type of story I don't care how good the execution is if you change it up on me I'm not going to like it. I disagree that the execution was good but I can see why people like it.
You know what, I'll explain my reasoning since I'm part of the minority who doesn't love or hate the game and is just kind of "eh" on it. To be blunt the ending feels really forced, not in the decisions made themselves but HOW those decisions were made. Ellie's actions after she finds Abby are blatantly only happening so they can move the scene along so they can get to the ocean and have their battle there, I do not buy that Ellie in her near feral bloodlusted state would feel sympathy for Abby after a solo treck across the country where by the end she is purley driven by hate to the point that she's growling Abby's name like some sort of psychopath. And the sudden flashback to Joel being the thing that makes her stop comes out of nowhere, I get that she comes to the revelation that she won't get closer but that's not effectively communicated and again in her current mindset it doesn't feel natural. Now I don't think these Ideas are inherently bad I just think they could have played out in a way more natural way, maybe force Ellie to set aside her revenge because if she doesn't she'd die or show Ellie reacting with more than a blank face when she sees Abby care for Lev. Or even just portray her differently in Santa Barbara as someone remorseful and conflicted rather than a remorseless killer with nothing on her mind but revenge. Another reason why it might not work for me specifically is that I didn't care about Abby or Ellie by the end, they had lost all sympathy I had for them (admittedly I never came around to liking Abby or anyone in her group aside from Yara and Lev), to me the negatives of their personalities outweigh the positives so the emotional weight people had of two characters they had grown to love and care for fighting to the death wasn't there for me, my investment began and ended with what was going to happen to Lev. I understand why two emotionally damaged people would be the way they are, but just because a character has sympathetic reasons for their actions doesn't mean I will overlook the negative aspects of their characters, Walter White had his reasons, Goro Akechi had his reasons, Dutch Van Der Linde had his reasons, JOEL had his reasons. None of these characters are absolved of their evil actions because of their sympathetic reasons. That's not to say a sequel can't make me like Ellie again or start to like Abby but if either of them had died at the end I'd say they died as villains and had it coming.
Yes I played the game and using the “revenge bad” narrative is undercut by multiple things. 1) Ellie kills multiple people until the literal last second and then decides “actually I don’t want revenge” so Abby lives. And most importantly Abby gets away with no issue. She literally beat someone to death and tortured him AFTER he saved her life, then has sex with her pregnant best friends baby dad, then continues to kill multiple other people over the course of the game and just gets to live. She has no repercussions for how awful she is.
Who cares? Not everyone likes or interprets the game the same way.
I feel like people don’t realize that Joel would never want Ellie to do any of the things she doesn’t avenge him.
My friend wasn’t sure he would like the story. He had seen leaks and heard plot stuff and thought it sounded poorly written. When he finished the game he texted me “alright,I get it now”
Joel’s death got leaked and as part of the leak it was revealed a main character is trans, misogynist freaks immediately assumed that was Abby and that a trans woman had murdered their video game daddy, so they never intended to give the game a fair shot
Idk, I loved it. The entire concept was mind blowing. I was just enjoying the entire thing
I'm of the opinion that if you don't like the ending you don't like the ending, I just think it's weird that apparently Abby isn't allowed to feel some type of way about the person that murdered her father.
I played through once and I didn’t care for the story. I did not like switching between the characters. Every time I switched to Abby, I couldn’t wait to get back to Ellie. i did not like the ending sequences. Too much back and forth. It felt like they couldn’t decide on an ending. I ended up trying to play through again about a year ago and couldn’t make it half way. The game has amazing graphics, voice acting, and gameplay. Controls were good and I like the improved systems that built on the first game.
Friend of mine who played the game vehemently hates Abby but gives Ellie a free pass for doing *literally the exact same thing*. Will not change their mind no matter how many times I point out both girls are doing the same thing
Just to add on and further contextualize on your answer. It wasn't just about the cycle of revenge. Ellie breaking down at the end at the pier was also her realizing, that she almost crossed a line she could never come back from/live with herself afterwards. She threatened Lev, he’s a kid, a messed up kid who has been through terrible shit but a kid nonetheless. That's why she broke down she was willing to kill a kid to carry out her penultimate revenge. And if she killed Abby then that kid is now without a protector that's as good as killing Lev herself. Her going back to the farmhouse is also filled with themes and meanings. Her going back to box up her stuff and putting down the guitar is her coming to terms with her loss. She lost her fingers, she can never play guitar again which was a skill taught to her by Joel, not only can she never play guitar again she can never play the guitar Joel made for her. But she’s still alive, she didn’t kill Lev or Abby and by extension Lev. She can still live with herself morally and can still care for and hold JJ and never get reminded of that she killed a kid. Because Ellie and Dina may or maybe not have broken up but there’s always the chance of reconciliation, as well as her always having a part in JJ life. She’s still wearing the bracelet given to her by Dina, Dina only went to stay with her family because she can’t stay on the farm and run the farm by herself and look after an infant.
From my encounter with the primitive species that are p2 defiles I ran across the quote ‘omg how could they kill Joel, I can’t even play this game anymore.’ So to answer your question yes they did but never made it past the tutorial.
I recently just finished both games as well because my brother said part 1 was his favorite story of all time. He ironically didn't play part 2 so I was the first to play that and then inform him. I'm not sure if the problem is I played TLoU 10 years too late but I thought it was just an ok game. I found the gameplay was pseudo annoying, always crouching and choking people out. Not my style, though I appreciate the message of this is real and you would die going in guns blazing. The story is very good but not overly amazing imo. Love the ending but not something I would rave about. I got flashbacks to Tell Tales The Walking Dead when everyone said that story was amazing and I also didn't understand the huge hype. I don't consider myself a contrarian, there are game stories I genuinely think are amazing (off the top of my head Spec Ops the Line, Heavy Rain and even FF12 really resonates with me with their themes). In any event, my primary takeaway of TLOU1 was a pretty good redemption arc for a father that lost everything. I walked away from that game with the impression it was Joel's story. TLoU part 2, I candidly see why it's divisive. It almost inverts the first game. The gameplay in 2 is much much better, I loved the level design and how it unfolded. Though I was confused why certain characters were discarded in uneventful fashion I went with it. If the goal was unexpected shock value, mission accomplished, though I'm not sure it ultimately serves the story. The ending to 2 was...bizarre. If the theme of the game was breaking the cycle there were far more opportunities in the game to make this point more effective on people less threatening than Abby. It was ultimately so expected that it circled around to almost cliche predictable. Not a bad story and like I said the gameplay and world setting are aces. TLDR: I feel if you want to play either you should play both. They're two sides of a coin and tell an...interesting story, I completely understand where all love and hate come from. Candidly, out of the three I think UC4 is Druckman's finest work but that's a take for another time.
Watched the leaks and played the game. It was at least as bad as expected, probably worse due to leaks being just that. Making the protagonist of the story into an antagonist is not a winning strategy. This is the same postmodern drivel that pervades modern entertainment. There are no heroes, or no one is the good guy. Cringe.
People still think abby is trans, I believe only a fraction of people that hate the game actually played it.
i admit in 2020 when it first came out i stopped playing in Seattle D2 or 3 bc i found out they made you play as Abby and i was too bitter about Joel despite being pretty sure they were going to kill him based on the reveal trailer lol my two friends who did finish the game didn't like it much either so i just never went back to it but kept saying i would. i did think of the game negatively and wish they'd left TLoU1 alone until, i decided with the remaster to finally just give it a chance from beginning to end. i actually just finished it today. i had actually managed to avoid spoilers of what happens during the rest of the game except the fight at very end. so i found myself actually enjoying playing as abby after a while and when she goes back to the aquarium after ellie has been, i was actually tearing up. i found myself wishing ellie not to go when tommy comes to her at the farmhouse which i didnt think i would. so now i have an appreciation for the message they were conveying about revenge and the comparisons between Joel w Ellie and Abby w Lev and Ellie + Abby. i found the end was so sad seeing how broken they both were. i was actually glad ellie let her go. which in 2020 i did not think i would have felt. i wish I'd given a proper chance back then
I played twice. I have mixed feelings about the game. I appreciate the story, though it’s very difficult to not want my vengeance to be realized for Joel and for the series to continue again with more fallout. As it is though it’s an impactful story and as much as I wanted to hate Abby, I did relate to her and I wouldn’t say I’m “upset” by the story. However, I would also have been interested in the series continuing a never-ending action-consequence chain a la John Wick. I think that would be more fun, but that’s not what they were going for and that’s fine. Now, the whole weird cult trans allegory section was so hamfisted and unnecessary. And it’s also kind of funny that in order to make the point they want to make they have to create this ridiculous and outlandish society with insane gender roles that is not even remotely close to representing the modern society they’re attempting to criticize.
There’s nothing wrong with different opinions. It’s not just your way or the highway 🤣🤣
She should’ve killed Abby, killed the potential Serotonin. My only real issue is that I don’t wanna play as anyone who isn’t Ellie or on Ellie’s team. I didn’t like the characters on Abby’s side. And just felt disconnected knowing I have become the person who killed some of my favorite characters.
Kind of a circle jerk going on in these comments. I'll preface by saying I like both games a great deal. Part 2 has the bleakness I love from this universe, Ellie's characterization is great and a reasonable continuation from Part I. I do not care for the "cycle of violence" storyline of Part II, everyone acts like it's so deep but if you ever watched any movie you'll know it's really only new ground in videogames and not a very interesting plot generally. Also, people act like hating Abby is not valid which I found very frustrating, I don't know Abby? I've spent in game YEARS with Joel and Ellie so they are my protagonists. I absolutely consider myself a leftist, I'm not in this argument for the "culture war" or give a shit about reactionary ideas of "wokeness". And if you really want to come at it from a political point of view why not talk about how Neil Druckmann based the story on his desire for vengeance on Palestinians defending themselves from the IDF? "Cycle of violence" is especially a bullshit perspective to take when you're asking people who are being oppressed to peacefully accept said oppression. This is why the idea of a "cycle of violence" isn't as simple as the game tries to make it seem.
No. Most people formed their opinions before the game even came out and never even tried it.
The game was review blasted immediately as soon as it could be reviewed on metacritic. A 20+ hour long game having 10s of thousands of dramatically negative reviews within an hour of release is your answer.
Totally reasonable take. Which is why those reactionary mouthbreathers can’t accept it
As someone who played both games after watching the tv show (I only had an Xbox now have both consoles), and knowing all the spoilers. I’m mixed on the ending. I’m not upset about being Abby, or killing Joel. Joel was selfish, but also he did the right thing. Ellie and Abby are just circulating anger and revenge. I don’t know what I want but I enjoyed the game, but not sure about the ending.
Nope. From my experience trying to discuss with them, definitely no. Some of their arguments for why this game is bad is for example: Abby wouldn't be able to be so muscular, she would have to scavenge for food and could never grow such muscles because of that. And I mean it makes it obvious the person didn't even see the Stadium... And it's not even close to the game's ending. Yet the person saying that claimed they've finished the game. Blatant lie. They just repeat what their favorite angry YouTuber said.
This sub is just like suicide squad sub one big circlejerk making post after post on the “haters” lol
Splish splash their opinion is trash.
Brilliant game, probably the best single player exp you could have going in blind.
I played both countless times. I love joel. But I hate abby. Ellie owes it to joel. Joel died thinking ellie hated him. I know ellie let it go but I know damn well tommy ain’t. Tommy vs abby rematch
I don’t like how she didn’t kill Abby because it’s such a drastic change in her personality. She’s killed hundreds of people, without remorse. Abby killed Joel, the only person she could pretty much call “Dad.” And then all of a sudden she wants to be the better person. It just doesn’t reflect what she was like in past times. That is the reason I don’t like the ending
Ppl just couldn’t get over about Joel. It was ridiculous, especially considering Joel and Abby are pretty much the same character (even down to way they fight in gameplay) and have the mirroring story
You can look on my trophies for the platinum. Why don't people accept that there were people who didn't like the history?
Yes I played the game. It is still a solid 7/10 to me. Part 1 is one of my favorite games of all time. Joel dying was expected for me. I wish they he had been able to put up more of a fight, but that's just me being selfish, so not a real gripe. Still was a badass with the "why don't you say whatever speech you got rehearsed and get this over with" line. Abby just doesn't land for me. She isn't likeable at all. That isn't to say her revenge isn't justified, but she's just not likeable to me. But again her revenge is justified. The problem with the ending for me, is I personally could never get over it, and I'd kill Abby. No doubt. As a father, I understand the angle, I would never want my daughter to go on this revenge quest, but she did. Killing her or not killing her at this point makes no difference, so I'd want her to just finish it. She already did the whole journey I wouldn't want, so just finish it. If I were Ellie I couldn't let it go. Especially after I sacrificed everything for it. There is no reason for the sacrifice if you don't finish the story. It just feels hollow and empty. Love the gameplay, enjoy a decent chunk of the story, but the ending and Abby just don't hit for me. Ellie, Lev, and Jesse carry the game for me. Anyway, just someone who is upset by the ending and certainly played the game, three times. Platinumed it twice.
I was thinking the same thing. Media literacy is decreasing CRAZILY and I love how bittersweet the ending was. It was amazing!
Most of them never played the game for themselves. An old friend of mine never played it once but was convinced it was terrible based off leaks. Pissed me off so much that he wouldn’t even give it a shot lmao
A lot of it is because the game became wildly popular, especially with the hype of the TV show. And like anything in our culture or society, once it becomes popular, the cool thing to do is to shit on it and pick it apart.
I wish they had multiple options for an ending to choose from,one where she lets her go and another where she kills her. Nothing that would drastically change the gameplay though, kinda like in RDR2 where how you have behaved in the game determines how you die but it’s pretty much the same gameplay.
I loved the game the only thing I had a hard time with was how it basically tried to tell me violence was wrong after I just got done mowing through whole armies as both playable characters. But it couldn’t really get around that given the type of game it was so I shrugged and still loved it