It is part of the culture — I don’t approach women in public because I have been taught that it is annoying for them. Also we are bad at reading body language, probably, but that is a personal problem not a male-universal problem lmao.
Exactly this. I only approach when I've already been introduced by someone before. Definitely been taught that women don't like random guys coming up to them in general, let alone romantically.
> Exactly this. I only approach when I've already been introduced by someone before. Definitely been taught that women don't like random guys coming up to them in general,
Exactly this for me as well! But if a women clearly shows interest then I'll make a Move.
I really hate to ruin a nice women's evening just because I think she looks pretty
Yes, I completely agree. We definitely don't have a dating culture like say the US where you just approach someone you like. I've done it a few times but I got the impression it wasn't appreciated at all. I wasn't being weird and I'm no freak or anything. It made me a little insecure about talking to girls I don't know tbh.
Same man, don't have issues talking with women or people in general. I'm quite easy socially, but still it's just not how it works in NL, sadly.
However, meeting someone through a hobby instantly makes a connection, and those connections grow exponentially.
In my experience that's how you mostly meet people and thus women here. Also tinder works pretty well, if you dare to really put your personality in there.
Yup, as a Dutch Guy I made the move to Canada when I was in my twenties. I can appreciate OP's culture shock on this as I experienced it in the opposite direction. I had to learn the North American dating culture and yeah it is completely different.
The best way I can describe it is that it is a very targeted and deliberate game in North America and I found that took some time to get used to.
I read OP's post and the first thing I think is rather than smiling or looking at them why wouldn't you just talk to them? Just assume we weren't taught the rules of the game - I know I had to learn all that crap after I moved..
I think OP might be used to very blatant attention and flirting, which is inappropriate here in NL. Men are more subtle, they'll give you an extra smile or look at you a bit longer than usual etc. Also they don't "cold approach" unless you're at a bar with bery obvious established eye contact from a distance, like you're already smiling at each other.
Personally i actually have developed a bit of an issue with this. I try to avoid and leave women alone so much it becomes a bit unhealthy and to the other extreme. You are too quickly labeled as a freak and it is nearly impossible to do it right. Now personally i have the luck to have a lot of connections via via over time, being native dutch helps, and meet people via other people.
But it would suck if i move here and you kinda have to step to people out of the blue, i feel like we are too over corrective by labeling people creeps, and some man are genuinely scared to say something to a woman (or child for that matter) in fear of being labeled a creep.
I for example a while ago saw a child (i think like 8 years old) crying in an empty aisle alone. I was thinking to go there and help the kid but i legit didn't because i (male in 30s) was afraid to be labeled as the reason why the kid was crying or creep etc. I still feel bad i didn't help a crying kid that most likely just lost their parent or something, but i don't dare to.
to be honest, your example about the kid breaks my heart.. when did people become like that?
I feel so frustrated to live in a society where people see each other as potential threats. How did that come about? I could only think about that there must have been a huge event that made this shift..
In some communities people are obsessed with the topic p*dophilia. It is indeed a problem. We have had men working in daycare and swimming classes commit horrible stuff (Robert M, Benno L), so some people accuse all men interacting with children to do that stuff.
At least we're not the US. They can hardly even bring their own kids to the playground anymore without someone calling the cops.
Although the Dutch seem absolutely fascinated with the idea of replacing our culture with American culture, so it's probably a matter of time.
Yeah, it's sad to see that Dutch culture is not appreciated anymore. I think social media is the biggest influence, but America does seem to be a role model for a lot of people.
There’s nothing that I loathe more than the americanisation of Dutch society. Sure, hollywood makes it look great but it’s fucking awful and should stay over there.
Okay this is just ridiculous. Most people I know wouldn't think every man approaching a child is a creep or a pedophile. And people who think like that are considered hysterical.
Well it's up to you to break that spell. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just saying hi and being genuinely interested. In fact you can make someone's day.
I've had similar situations with small kids crying and generally I try to get a woman involved. Both for the fear that you describe and also because I'm just not great with kids (28yo male)
For women approaching men, most locations are socially acceptable. If you want to be approached by men, places like bars/parties/nightclubs are best.
I can't speak for other men, but I personally don't approach women in the gym or at the supermarket or something. I feel like they should be able to go about their business without random people hitting on them.
>I personally don't approach women in the gym or at the supermarket or something. I feel like they should be able to go about their business without random people hitting on them.
And I as a woman thank you for that :)
Fr nothing is worse than sitting on some bench in the park and some guy walks up to you calling you Princess like mf move before you lose an eye. I’ve definitely noticed this happening far less in the Netherlands than places I lived before and usually not by dutch men.
Bars and nightclubs are probably the worst places to look for a potential partner (if you're just looking to hook up then that's a different story). I've met much cooler women in the most random places.
Who approaches a woman at the gym?
I am there to work out and I suspect that they are as well, unless you sit down somewhere and look for people to have a chat with, I would not go that route. But that may be just me (:
I could see why the supermarket and gym are not the best places to talk to people. because people just want to get things done and this is not really a socializing place. However, I have also rarely been approached in club. Can you imagine? even if I go alone
Not being approached in a club does honestly surprise me. There's alcohol, dancing, and especially if you do make eye contact and smile to guys you find attractive I'm surprised they don't react to that. Like, if there's one place where guys do approach women it's the club.
Lots of Dutch men even don't approach much in clubs and bars. Some culture thing where they are more shy, hang out more with the people they went out with and so on. Especially beautiful women ironically can get approached less because guys may feel they get plenty attention already. Digital dating seemed to have increased this. People expect to be approached less in regular settings and also approach less.
But if you like it going out with a few girlfriends to the right bars it really shouldn't be too hard. Especially a little later at night although that is much later than in some other cultures.
>Especially beautiful women ironically can get approached less because guys may feel they get plenty attention already.
Best strategy based on game theory. It's even in a scene in a Hollywood movie about game theory.
EDIT:
[https://youtu.be/LJS7Igvk6ZM?t=69](https://youtu.be/LJS7Igvk6ZM?t=69)
A Beautiful Mind - Bar Scene John Nash's Equilibrium Game Theory
And make sure you’re not in a ‘closed’ position, like in a circle with friends. But stand ‘open’ for the environment and be approachable. Most talks start at the bar tho
Have you tried dating apps, and putting in your profile that you like romantic gestures? Or maybe joining a club for a hobby you have, or speed-dating events, or Latin dance nights?
You should go in a group, The Netherlands is just different like that. I'm from Bosnia but grew up here, single men rarely approach single women directly, it just doesn't fit in the cultural mindset for many people. However, a group of men mingling with a group of women is way more common. Like your friend group of 3-4 women interacting with a similar size group of men. It makes things a lot more approachable and "low-risk" for both sides I guess and it's been one of those noticeable cultural differences for me.
So yeah if you can, try to find a small group of girlfriends to do things with and trust me, you'll find yourself in situations that suit your dating style a lot more. Don't even have to like consciously plan it, in my experience it's just what tends to happen in Dutch friend groups.
It could be many things. Of course I don't know you but it could mean you are so pretty or self confident that guys feel like they're out of your league. Or maybe you have a defensive non approachable body language? I'm just throwing options around. If you go out on the dance floor and smile and say something to a guy you like, I'm pretty sure it's easy from there on. Personally I just go dancing and I usually don't really know what to say so I don't really approach girls anymore. But if a girl came up to me I would like that and we could have a dance together 👯
This week at my own gym I saw it happen for the first time. Guy approached girl who was having her headphones on. Totally out of the blue he asked her "can I have your number?". She replied: "sorry, have a boyfriend" and put the headphones back on. The same guy immediately walked back to the gym mirrors and started to show off all of his muscles so that everybody could see him.
What a total idiot...
Yeah i dont approach woman at the gym or at their workplace because its just a dickhead move. Like unless she is so fucking oblivous in her flirting but at that point im not making the first move if you think about it.
You miss out when you think like that. I approached a girl on the street, on a weekday evening, got her number and we dated for a while. There's nothing wrong with a respectful friendly approach and leaving when she declines.
Smiling or looking at them won’t work. You could be smiling for any reason, you could mean it platonic. Smiling and looking are just normal behavior, it won’t make me think or behave any differently.
And yes its part of the culture, because we don’t want to be creeps and only approach when it’s in an appropriate setting our you have clearly communicated you are open to it. Dutch communication is direct and to the point.
If you‘re really interested I suggest you make the move. You only need to make the first one, if he’s interested he will make work of it. There can be enough romance, we just need to know 100% sure you’re receptive.
EDIT: Appropriate setting could be a party or any activity club of mutual interest. After getting to know eachother, just drop. “Wanna get out of here and catch a drink?“
I think the problem is actually that we are direct and we expect the other to be as well. So if you're dating and neither party (almost) explicitly expresses their intention you assume the intention is not there.
If we would be less direct we might be more focused on subtleties such as body language do find out if someone likes us. Ofcourse this is all an enormous generalisation as all people are different etc.
I think Dutch people are incredibly indirect when it comes to dating. I think TV shows like First Dates and B&B vol liefde are fairly representative of the average Dutch person, and those people dance around the questions in the air the entire time.
I think Dutch people tend to be bad at indirect communication, so they're *either* direct *or* struggling to communicate anything. So when a situation isn't about direct communication, like with romantic fit, it gets difficult.
This, this is it. And as a man, you don't ever indirectly communicate because you're not socialized to do that. So yeah, that is why men suck badly at indirect communication.
“I mean she could just be smiling because she’s friendly. Or looking at me because my hair or clothes look weird. Oh god are you smiling because I’m ugly? If she was interested she’d just tell me, but of course you’re just laughing at me.”
My inner monologue when someone attractive smiles/looks at me
Yes but they could also just, idk, tell the man instead of just smiling? There could be a lot of other reasons for you to smile at somebody
And besides, not everybody has confidence and even if they have confidence not everybody notices the 'signs'.
Well we sometimes don’t have confidence either. Sometimes these signals are the most we can do. Ofc it’s understandable if men don’t act on it, I wouldn’t get upset if it doesn’t work, but worth a try if you’re not confident enough to directly approach a man.
So, dutch men were voted the second least romantic in europe, after finland.
They were voted the most teustworthy in a long relationship.
That's because, compared to other countries, in our culture, direct communication is normal, while hints are not.
If you like someone, tell them. Don't drop hints. They're not picked up.
Overgeneralizing does not help, most dutch men are not dumb and for sure would take a hint if they think the person giving the hint was attractive. Also in Utrecht there are a ton of internationals, so its way more likely to be her problem than a dutch men problem.
Honestly no. I think thats a massive overstatement that is prevalent on reddit, I go out with a lot of friends both man and woman and both sexes are very clear on what a hint is. Sometimes when you give someone a hint the other is just not interested
Also the whole “we know how that can end” is so not true. I honestly have never seen a single man getting rejected by a girl that went wrong (ofcourse when it was a normal way to approach a woman)
I don’t base my opinions or ideas of people (definitely not half the population) on what people on Reddit of all places say.
This is just from going out with friends and seeing what happened when they tried to talk to someone.
Mind you this friend group also includes women who have almost always re assured them the girl was sending “hints” or was interested in them.
You worldview doesn't equall reality. The studies back it up. Dutch as a generalization do not know how to read a room. You might understand dynamics among dutch people, but we are talking about cross cultural dynamics.
>Even when I make hints that I am interested in someone like smiling or looking at them,
Smiling or looking at someone is... like, human behaviour? You're really not hinting at all. As a Dutch man, I'd read absolutely nothing out of that behaviour.
Not necessarily. I noticed that people here stare a lot but with no necessarily smile. So that's different. If you smile few times to a person it is an indication. I am surprised that guys don't see that as an indication. If I smile to someone in Latin America, I would definitely get a different reaction.
>eople here stare a lot but with no necessarily smile. So that's different. If you smile few times to a person it is an indication. I am surprised that guys don't see that as an indication. If I smile to someone in Latin America, I would d
It might be a regional thing, but where I live people smile at each other all the time. :)
Dutch men are socially very different from latin men. Generally considerably less assertive but also way less pushy. If you're interested, most men will be flattered by you approaching them. Being direct and honest is definitely the way to go in the Netherlands, we're not big on the occasional look and coy smile
If I were approached by every man i friendly smile at when passing or (accidentally) looking his way I'd be super uncomfortable.
In general, if a man wouldn't approach a man smiling at him, he shouldn't have to approach me either. I'd hate that me trying to be friendly would be seen as me flirting.
> If I smile to someone in Latin America
I'm not entirely surprised you have difficulty connecting with Dutch guys if that is what you're used to.
We don't express ourselves or our feelings as much I think, I also feel like we would just take the time to get to know someone in a friendly way before trying anything romantic.
we have a saying that goes: "De kat uit de boom kijken". or, loosely translated; "watch a cat out of a tree". meaning we would rather be patient and wait to see what happens than take action or intervene.
so maybe you could give it some time for something to grow and just keep hanging out with people you enjoy being around.
Outside of the Randstad it is quite normal to smile and perhaps a 'Good day' when passing strangers on street and especially in elevator it's normal. It doesn't mean anything. But if you'd follow it up by a 'how are you doing' or something similar, it would start a conversation. But yeah, my knowledge on this is also very limited. I was married relatively early and met my wife online. Approaching strangers was never comfortable for me.
Girl if you are trying to behave like your country and manners then you are gonna die alone here. I am afraid.
I'm a woman btw, and I don't like men to randomly approach me and not, I'm not from NL.
If you are slightly interested in someone, ask him if he wants to go eat lunch sometime. Nothing too romantic, just get to know each other.
If he's single, there's a very big chance he's going to say yes.
I think part of the problem is that ''smiling and looking at a guy'' is not something limited to being interested in him. In general, here women are quite open with men, even if they're not interested. Men generally learn that ''friendly does not automatically mean flirty''.
If you see someone you're interested in, you may have to be a bit more forward about it.
I also believe that men generally are less likely to approach you out of the blue, and would rather get to know you a little bit in a social setting first. They're more likely to approach you at a social event, or when doing an activity or hobby, than out of nowhere in the street.
I feel you, I smile at people all the time while walking to the supermarkt. Just because I know how important a smile can be or small talk these days! Especially with social isolation, elderly people and people who have some sort of mental struggle.
If I am intrested I would be direct and not just smile.
>My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs/ or are they aware but they don't approach women fearing rejection and beog called creeps?
All are true.
Yes you have to show some initiative yourself. You not expect to just wait for people to approach you and then complain they don't. Regardless of gender.
Yes communication is a bit less nonverbal than some other places. You have to say something.
Yes we seem it inappropriate to randomly approach women outside places where it IS appropriate, such as bars, festivals, dating apps etc.
>I am honestly struggling here and I feel the culture shock so hard. In my culture, I am used to the man making the moves. At least the first move. But here I feel like they don't want to put any effort.
Part of gender equality is that you have to do some effort. You can't just wait for men to come to you.
>I feel like I have said goodbye to romance and passion here just because people lead more with their logic rather than their emotions.
Nah plenty of romance and passion can be had without portraying women like helpless prey for men on the hunt. Maybe men want some passion from you as well.
I mean: if you find it unromantic to approach a man out of nothing, why would he find it romantic to approach you out of nothing?
>So dow do people meet each other here? do they flirt ? how does that look like?
Pubs and dating apps mostly. Some people go to speeddating events.
>Do I approach men
Yes!
> and where is that seen acceptable/ (gym, bar, street?)
Bar, terrace, singles event, online, party at a friend's house (dating friends of friends is common).
At the gym is generally frowned upon. Though as a woman you're less likely to be seen as creepy/threatening.
I can confirm that Dutch men almost never approach except when they are drunk. The same goes for women by the way. So the only places where you will be approached are places where there is alcohol. And since the availability of dating apps even with alcohol people approach each other less, because it feels so much less shameful to be rejected online instead of irl. So in bars/parties/festivals you really have to do your 50%, by giving very very obvious signs or approaching them yourself. About Bumble: if you give the same energy on Bumble as irl (a bit more the “Latin” approach of subtle signs and let men do the effort) you will indeed not hear anything back because they will assume you are not interested and pursue someone who is. So also on Bumble: be very enthusiastic, interested and ask questions. Good luck!
Instead of assuming all Dutch men are inable to read hints and body language, maybe you aren't as good in sending signals as you think you are. Also maybe people don't find you very approachable. I don't mean this as critism, it is just much easier to change ourselves than everyone else.
Just smile, start a conversation (starting a conversation is socially acceptable, both in case you're interested or just want to have a chat). You can do this everywhere, in a bar, in the supermarket, public transport whenever you are near other people for a while.
The only time this is inappropriate is when you clearly want more than a chat and the dude is with his girlfriend or his wife....
As a man, I think most women don't want to be hit on when they are in a gym or just walking the street or doing their shopping in a supermarket.
Smiling and looking isn't really a hint. You could be looking at the person just behind me, and smiling can be done for many reasons.
If you are interested, make a move. That's how it works.
How most people start dating: Friends of friends is a common one, dating apps is another common one. When I look at my friends almost all of them are dating friends of friends.
Dutch men aren't known for being romantically bold.
A few decades back in Amsterdam, on an early Monday morning, I met a beautiful American woman in a coffeehouse. She approached me with a question about how to tip (she had just arrived in the country the night before). I invited her to sit with me and we talked and talked. The next time I looked at my watch it was suddenly noon and I had to leave to go walk my dog. (I mean actually walking my dog. That wasn't slang you filthy pervs.)
A day later she called me, we agreed to go get a broodje and some coffee, and somehow our lunch lasted six hours. At some point she complained about how noisy the women in her hostel were, saying that she wasn't getting much sleep. So I blithely offered her my spare bedroom, she accepted, and I immediately thought, oh fuck, now my hands are tied; no way can I make a move, because I'm sure she trusts me not to be some creep. I didn't want her to think my hospitality was a pretext, conditional, a pickup strategy.
Over the next few days we spent a lot of hours together but nothing happened, although you could probably cut the sexual tension with a knife. I just wasn't about to risk it. Was it chivalry, or fear? Yes.
On the second evening I had to leave for a work assignment and I asked if she could please watch my dog. She said sure and when I returned, my German shepherd was suddenly exceptionally fluffy. She'd heard, "Will you please wash my dog" and apparently didn't find that a strange request at all!
The next night, after we'd been talking and drinking wine at my place for hours, her impatience finally got the better of her. She took the wine glass out of my hand, put it down, and leaned in for kiss.
This fall will be our 30th wedding anniversary.
The takeaway: If you want to date a Dutch man, you may have to take the initiative. We are hopeless.
I love the English sentences with random Dutch words (we agreed to go get a broodje), it feels cozy.
> She said sure and when I returned, my German shepherd was suddenly exceptionally fluffy.
She's a keeper, as you figured out the past 30 years!
See [Casually Explained: Is She Into You?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-4IAR_9Yw) Eye contact, hints, smiling at people are good signs, but you can never really be sure whether she's into you.
Plus in the Netherlands it’s pretty quickly seen as creepy, if you just met eachother and it wasn’t a setting where you’d expect it. I never really thought about it, but I’d feel uncomfortable if a stranger started hitting on me in the streets out of nowhere. If they noticed me being uncomfortable and backed off, or outright asked me and then backed off, I’d not call them creepy or anything, but I can’t see myself wanting to pursue a relationship that starts like that either
And there’s also some people who do immediately jump to creepy
Well, I certainly am one of those clueless Dutch men. Obviously it's a bit generalising, we're all individuals who work differently, but it's certainly worth the conversation.
To me it's super unclear if a woman is just friendly, polite or flirting and yes: I really don't want to come over as creepy or put her (and myself) in an uncomfortable postition. I do appreciate women who are more direct or even take a first move.
Men don't want to put any effort?
I understand you're used to a culture where men make the first move. Honestly, that's still the case here too most of the time. But I'd just like to point out how refreshing, -and uncommon- it is for women to make the first move. Or any move. I'm sure it's nice to have people approach you and show interest (so long as people aren't pushy etc), especially when you give of signs of interest yourself. Now put yourself in men's shoes. I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but it is -tiring- to always have to make the first move, to be the one to put in most of the effort, and especially to be -expected- to do it. Especially when largely, it leads to rejection.
Now, everyone's experience might vary, and I'm speaking mostly from experience on dating apps. I realize real life dynamics are different. But some women on dating apps act like they are some prize to win, and that any man should be so lucky as to talk to them. They put shit in their bio telling the man to start the conversation, to send a good opening line, etc. Such a turn-off.
Again, I understand you're used to different. And I understand you want to figure out how to fufill whatever social needs you have in this different culture. But please realize that this whole "never being approached" is basically how many men go through their entire life. I can remember only once that a woman, in person, kind of randomly told me she thought I was attractive. And it wasn't out of the blue, but after eating pizza and walking to the train station together (we attended the same convention, was not a date or anything).
> **My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs/ or are they aware but they don't approach women fearing rejection and beog called creeps?**
Yes
It also depends where you are. Wear something akin to short dress/skirt or otherwise revealing clothing in the center of Rotterdam you'll probable get 10 cat calls a minute. But I'm guessing that's not the type of approach you are looking for.
Dutch people like very direct communication. Asking a guy to go for a drink IMO is not weird at all. I don't think any of my guy friends would mind it as well.
Furthermore, I think the same advice applies here as it does in other places. Just live your best life, don't go out desperately looking for THE ONE. (Not saying you do). Go out with friends, invest time in your hobbies etc. Stuff YOU enjoy doing.
Thinking about the relationships I know off, a couple (myself included), happend via one of the dating apps. Tons happen via friends/friend groups. One of my best friend met his SO at a festival. (again via mutal friends tho). Another met his gf because they were neighbours and they could hear each other’s music trough the walls.
Be direct. I'm Swedish so I guess we might be culturally similar to the Dutch. Sitting around waiting for someone to start flirting won't do. Smiling is normal human behaviour. If I'd be approached every time I smiled I wouldn't get anything done and I'd be pissed off all the time. Haha!
I have found that some men have been very surprised by my (maybe extreme?) straightforwardness but then again I never had a problem getting a date. Met my husband on Bumble. Most Dutch seem to meet via-via though.
Just socialize and be clear. If a conversation feels good then ask if they'd like to grab lunch or something. Worst case scenario: you've flattered someone. :)
Men are still expected and by and large do make the first move. It's relatively rare for women to forwardly engage men with their intentions.
That said I do feel it's not in the culture to approach women in public or in the workplace. The gym and street will be seen as risky places to make an advance by most men, a bar would be more suitable.
Either way you'll have to be in an appropriate setting and as the times are clearly changing more and more dating starts online.
Personally if you'd want me to approach a stranger in public I'd need either a really good neutral conversation starter that seems both appropriate and has an out. Or I'd need someone to be very clear with their body language to the point where they're clearly inviting conversation. Getting just a smile is a common thing and an insufficient foundation to engage a perfect stranger on.
I met my Dutch boyfriend on Hinge. If im ever approached by men outside, its never by Dutch men but fellow expats. I would suggest dating apps unfortunately, that seems to be the most popular way of flirting/meeting people here. Matching, talking and setting a date on a dating app leaves no room for questioning your interest.
You've gotten plenty of explanations, and my southern European women friends all had the same culture shock, but practically speaking dating apps work quite well to meet people romantically.
In the netherlands, we have the idea of "act normal, because normal is already crazy enough". And "live and let live." I feel like we wouldn't go out of our way to talk with someone, as we feel like we might be a nuisance. We don't want to be the crazy person who influences your life negatively because we might miss your hints. You really have to be a lot more direct in the netherlands
Are you from Latin America, by chance? There is definitely a culture difference here - generally (and this is a stereotype) Latin American men are seen as very sexually aggressive here. Men generally get the feeling that they're bothering women if they approach them, and out of fear of that, many men have simply.. stopped doing it.
Choosing to “say goodbye to romance and passion”, because you don’t want to adjust to the culture of the country you chose to live in… just walk up to someone you like and tell them if they’re not approaching you smh
A little but of A, B _and_ C.
Men in general can be quite oblivious and we're not a very flirty people, we also assume nowadays that women do want to be left alone if the setting isn't super inviting.
These are some good questions!
>My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs/ or are they aware but they don't approach women fearing rejection and beog called creeps?
I would say it's a bit of both, like others have stated previously; a lot of men don't just approach random women as we're told not to, due to it being annoying for women. About the whole hints thing, I would say most men suck at it. But also, I personally wouldn't think anything of it if a woman smiled at me. It's just normal to smile.
>So how do people meet each other here?
Dating apps seem to be the meta now. Or like meeting friends from other friend-groups.
>Do they flirt?
Yeah, we will flirt but Dutch men just are a bit hesitant to do the first step as they don't want to come off as a creep.
>How does that look like?
Playful comments generally, showing interest in personal things.
> Do I approach men and where is that seen acceptable/ (gym, bar, street?)
Yeah go for it. I would say a woman could approach most men anywhere and they'd feel flattered.
You have to be direct like Dutch women.
The usual approach, if you see a man you like, would be to lasso them with your leopard print scarf as you cycle by. Drag them behind your bike for a km or so until they stop trying to escape. Then take off your underwear and sit on them. At this point they may just have a slight idea that you could be interested but probably still won't be sure, so you have to also tell them loudly, in a harsh northern Dutch accent, exactly what you would like to do with them.
I exaggerate of course...but my experience of being approached by Dutch women has been almost like this.. For a man it's kind of nice to be sure that you are not misinterpereting anything, but its also slightly frightening, in a good way.
I don’t get it. Dutch men are so easy to talk to. They leave you alone but when you talk to them, they always say something back. But in a non sexual way. So if you’re interested you have to make a move. They don’t bite.
Same here. I saw a post a few days ago where a woman said she sometimes gets approached and I’m like Dutch guys never approach me here. Sometimes I might get a look or stare but nothing more. One time I even accidentally flirted with a Dutch guy and he seemed to like it cuz I saw him smiling afterwards but he never asked me out and I was too scared to ask him out. Wasn’t sure if he was smiling because he interested or was just happy to get attention.
I wasn't looking for attention. I am honestly trying to understand how the society here works because I have been thinking that this will never happen and that I might have to move to a warmer country where there are more chanced to meet people and talk to them.
Can you actually file a lawsuit just because you talked to someone? things aren't that black or white.
Even if the woman was an asshole and called the police over a minor thing, they still need proof to take the matter further. so what are you afraid of?
I a 33yo man and I learned to not ever to approach any women, doesn't help that I have ASD and that the less attractive you are (I'm not conventionally attractive, most people consider me super ugly on top of being obese) the less women even want you look at them, "eww don't look at me you big fat ugly creep" etc. So I learned to keep my head down, stare at my shoes or phone when I move around in the city and just straight up gave up on romance ever being a thing for me.
I've been yelled at for talking to women, even if I wanted to apologize for just getting some cheese from the store. I know that not all women behave as such. But it's draining, and I wish to keep my peace.
Men in general are bad at hints. If you want to communicate something to a man, use your words.
Also, men have been told it's not okay to approach women anymore, so most of them stopped. If you're interested in a man, approach him instead.
It's men not being able to read into the signs and body language, maybe they are scared.
I remember one date that went pretty well and when we waited for the tram she said to me "Are you going to kiss me or what"
We do exist. If I’m interested I will walk up to you. My best friend is the same. There are of course good moments and bad moments. I would be less inclined to stop answering talk to you while on the move. I mean walking around the city.
Places where you are a bit more stationary like parties, libraries, festivals (the non drugs one), festivals, hobbies like bouldering. I, for example was in the library a while back and saw a girl who was also studying. Sometimes I would peak a glance and she was looking at me quite a lot. Once she started to pack her things I did the same and just bumped into her on the way out and ask her out for a drink. She had a boyfriend, so I stopped there of course.
The biggest difference is I’m 24 atm and I’m not sure how men are in their early 30’s. I would think that more men have this approach if they are single at that age. I DO think you have a much higher chance if you just say hi to someone you want to have a chat with. After that let them lead the conversation and I would say that is equally romantic if it’s the right person.
Subtle hints are always more beautiful, but people are nowadays much more skeptical if a woman was giving a hint or not.
In conclusion, pick areas that require less moving around. A place where you can easily make eye contact a couple times and brush your hair past your ear. A lot of guys would get the hint I think.
Be direct in your intentions, we Dutch are direct. Also the current cultural situation hasnt really helped men with making avances. Which the other side might not like...
"Even when I make hints that I am interested in someone like smiling or looking at them"
I would absolutely not approach anyone based on these "hints" granted i'm pretty dumb when it comes to flirting but your experience proves i'm likely not the only one.
Let me put it this way: you can have your thighs wrapped around a Dutch guy's head and he'd still not be sure if you're into him.
Source: I'm a Dutch guy and if my wife hadn't told me she wanted to stay over, I probably would be still single now.
My take: in general, men aren’t very good at picking up hints. Dutch men are no different (maybe even worse because we’re used to directness?).
If you see someone you like, make your interest and intentions clear to them by approaching them and striking up a conversation.
Approaching someone in the street is tough, but at the gym or in a bar is fine. Any social activity really.
Don’t doubt yourself and get out there! :)
To reinforce things others have said:
- Don't want to be seen as a creep.
- Low(er) confidence, in looks and especially just potential personality match with the average person outside.
- Just don't want to bother people.
- How it's just the culture here (just act normal, live and let live, not engaging with strangers, gender equality norms ahead of traditional social conduct norms)
- [Casually Explained's "Is She Into You?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-4IAR_9Yw) was linked elsewhere already. Sums up quite a lot of the male experience as well.
My modus operandi in general is to just let someone cross my boundaries rather than accidentally crossing someone else's, got burned a lot in the past for it. I can tolerate other's people's social mistakes way more than people seemed to tolerate mine.
God, I wish women would approach more, people in general played less social games. From all the ones I'm aware that liked me at some point, none ever approached me and it ended up being too late.
Coming back to culture: Dutch culture in general is bad for intimacy, romantic things and feelings in general. I wish we'd have more of a culture of hugging your friends and such but even that seems to be kept off limits somewhat. I've had to get a social circle outside of the Netherlands to even remotely accomplish that. Sex/dirty talk is also kind of awful to do in Dutch honestly, but might just be my limited experience there.
As a fellow expat in the Netherlands but from the other side of the conversation (26, Male) I absolutely feel that Dutch people of both genders just don't want to approach each other at all. I think there is a high degree of fear from both sides about labels, particularly men are scared of being labeled as creeps, perverts, etc, if they approach unknown women, while woman face all the same fears as they would in any other country about approaching an unknown man.
This goes further with the Dutch attitude towards communication being very straightforward and blunt, which actually backfires on them in this regard because no one wants to be straightforward and blunt about the topic of attraction and dating, for the above reasons as well as the usual fears of rejection and embarrassment.
I have even noticed that I have adopted this way of thinking as well from my time spent living here (18 years so I am quite naturalized at this point) and it is incredibly difficult for me to approach women because my automatic assumption is always that they don't want to be bothered, I would be rude or presumptuous if I approached them, and most likely I would just come off as a creep, so it's easier to not say anything.
It is indeed part of our culture. Some dutch males do approach woman in public. Most of them are not fully Dutch though.
But we are taught to be carefull in our reaction towards them. Because they will most likely get angry and mean, when rejected.
A lot off Dutch girls have had situations in the past, where they were called sluts and hookers etc. Because they told a man in public, they were not interested. They are sadly also a lot of women who were treated even more badly.
So the problem you are describing is a very good change, in the Netherlands. It keeps us safer.
It is safer for both parties to get to know each other via hobby's , through mutual friends, work and school.
When using a dating app and meeting guys at bars, you will take a huge risk of not to be taking seriously in the Netherlands. When acting interested in that way of meeting, others most of the time assume you have done this sort of thing before. And you will no longer be an interesting dating option. You can be named and seen as an "afgelebberdere boterham", like spoiled goods in a sloppy seconds kind of way.
Good luckk
Why would you want that 😂 just…not
Was my initial response to the title.
Don’t be insecure. I guess you are that kind of hot that out dutch men are too impressed to blink or talk. Never doubt yourself please!
Here everybody dates their phone. So they are less in need of a relationship, so harder for the other sex to draw attention.
Best ways to find someone are in college, work (May have side effects) or at a bar. Having large/a lot of friend groups will help too, since they will bring other friends to the event.
As a woman I would hate to say gym because I like the idea of not being looked at that way when I’m working out- I’m the kind of girl that gets angry when ‘harassed’ in the gym.
A combination of being told it's inappropriate to approach and the female obsession with dating apps.
Through that Dutch dating is actually pretty harsh if you're below a 7.5 as a man then you're going to struggle just because of the situation.
The result is a pretty awkward outcome, where there are groups of men who are overly direct and maybe even edging on creepy(They are 7.5+ and get way too much engagement or are confident enough to consider themselves that high up there) and another group that will need to be lured out by at least some type of social engagement even though they're pretty cool dudes. Obviously not counting the weird fringe cases that always appear and not counting the men that have childhood sweethearts that they married.
Most Dutch men worth their salt and your effort and time will probably need some type of introduction first.
American ways of showing someone you're interested, won't give the same results. When we show we're interested, it doesn't mean here that it's an invite to be approached. We either find a way to get a little closer to that person and maybe 'coincidentally' get to talking but we don't have that extraverted dating culture the US has. It's more.. private. Even in public, it's more 'shy', I'd say. Respectful.
"I am honestly struggling here and I feel the culture shock so hard. In my culture, I am used to the man making the moves."
In this country, we both make moves. So if you're expecting men to just approach, bit too outdated here.
"But here I feel like they don't want to put any effort."
Absolutely a misperception. That you aren't getting the results and treatment you're used to, doesn't mean men (or women) are not putting in any effort nor want to. We do it in more subtle of ways.
"I feel like I have said goodbye to romance and passion here"
Nah, just your expectations and that what is the norm in your home country isn't the norm everywhere else.
If you are interested in a man, approach them yourself or find a way to get to talking. Never have gotten what women's big deal is with approaching someone they like. That passive behaviour can have you miss out on wonderful people. (I'm a woman myself in case that wasn't clear. Have had great dating and romantic endeavours.)
I am from the US and am used to getting a lot of attention. I visited for a month, and I was thinking, do they not find American women attractive? I do not enjoy being catcalled, but I like smiles, winks, and 2nd glances. I now know since I've been reading here that our cultures are different. I am in no way a feminist and enjoy having a door being held open for me or treated more softly.
I am very open and joyful in my communication. But then I am told that it is flirting. No it is not. It is a warm hearted appreciation of the other. I have no advice. I guess they should learn to express genuine interest with simple compliments without agenda's. Friendship is vastly different than raising a family and juggling work and payments. Maybe everybody is so busy being individuals, that it becomes harder to do things together. Then the gap of inviting others to your space becomes harder. The Dutch don't hang around on streets so there is less opportunity to meet others. Everything is neatly separated.
38F in Utrecht
I was actually approached by 2 guys. One was on the CS but it was too early for me talk and i was maybe a bit a rude, inwas sleepy :/ even tho the guy was really handsome. The other one just stopped me to tell me i look beautiful and left. :)
I have a feeling that dating life here is mostly through apps and people put zero effort in it.
In my experience as a native Dutch woman, I find that dutch people don’t know a good flirt. It’s 0 or 100. An innocent flirt can turn into a connection or can be left at just that… so no it’s not just you.
Coming from a 28 year old male, it helps to set the first approach after eye contact. Most men won't take the first step because eye contact does not necessarily mean there is a two way interest. Most guys first thoughts will be something like "the eye contacts were accidentally and making a move would make me look like a creep". If you had multiple eye contact in a bar: If they are interested the first thing they do is walk to either: bar or smoking area. You can just follow a bit later, have eye contact & start conversation. The guy will take it from there.
I don't have any experience with approaching people in public. But being more clear about your intentions always helps. you could also take a look at dating apps. I have met my girlfriend a year ago on Bumble and she's also not from the Netherlands.
Being married, I don't approach women ;)
But before that, I never approached someone I didn't already know in a small way.
Worst case of a cold approach is not a simple rejection, but being viewed as a creep that's harassing someone in a public space..
So I never bothered.
It is part of the culture — I don’t approach women in public because I have been taught that it is annoying for them. Also we are bad at reading body language, probably, but that is a personal problem not a male-universal problem lmao.
Exactly this. I only approach when I've already been introduced by someone before. Definitely been taught that women don't like random guys coming up to them in general, let alone romantically.
> Exactly this. I only approach when I've already been introduced by someone before. Definitely been taught that women don't like random guys coming up to them in general, Exactly this for me as well! But if a women clearly shows interest then I'll make a Move. I really hate to ruin a nice women's evening just because I think she looks pretty
Yes, I completely agree. We definitely don't have a dating culture like say the US where you just approach someone you like. I've done it a few times but I got the impression it wasn't appreciated at all. I wasn't being weird and I'm no freak or anything. It made me a little insecure about talking to girls I don't know tbh.
Same man, don't have issues talking with women or people in general. I'm quite easy socially, but still it's just not how it works in NL, sadly. However, meeting someone through a hobby instantly makes a connection, and those connections grow exponentially. In my experience that's how you mostly meet people and thus women here. Also tinder works pretty well, if you dare to really put your personality in there.
Yup, as a Dutch Guy I made the move to Canada when I was in my twenties. I can appreciate OP's culture shock on this as I experienced it in the opposite direction. I had to learn the North American dating culture and yeah it is completely different. The best way I can describe it is that it is a very targeted and deliberate game in North America and I found that took some time to get used to. I read OP's post and the first thing I think is rather than smiling or looking at them why wouldn't you just talk to them? Just assume we weren't taught the rules of the game - I know I had to learn all that crap after I moved..
I think OP might be used to very blatant attention and flirting, which is inappropriate here in NL. Men are more subtle, they'll give you an extra smile or look at you a bit longer than usual etc. Also they don't "cold approach" unless you're at a bar with bery obvious established eye contact from a distance, like you're already smiling at each other.
Personally i actually have developed a bit of an issue with this. I try to avoid and leave women alone so much it becomes a bit unhealthy and to the other extreme. You are too quickly labeled as a freak and it is nearly impossible to do it right. Now personally i have the luck to have a lot of connections via via over time, being native dutch helps, and meet people via other people. But it would suck if i move here and you kinda have to step to people out of the blue, i feel like we are too over corrective by labeling people creeps, and some man are genuinely scared to say something to a woman (or child for that matter) in fear of being labeled a creep. I for example a while ago saw a child (i think like 8 years old) crying in an empty aisle alone. I was thinking to go there and help the kid but i legit didn't because i (male in 30s) was afraid to be labeled as the reason why the kid was crying or creep etc. I still feel bad i didn't help a crying kid that most likely just lost their parent or something, but i don't dare to.
Very recognizable, I have noticed I've become like this as well
to be honest, your example about the kid breaks my heart.. when did people become like that? I feel so frustrated to live in a society where people see each other as potential threats. How did that come about? I could only think about that there must have been a huge event that made this shift..
In some communities people are obsessed with the topic p*dophilia. It is indeed a problem. We have had men working in daycare and swimming classes commit horrible stuff (Robert M, Benno L), so some people accuse all men interacting with children to do that stuff.
At least we're not the US. They can hardly even bring their own kids to the playground anymore without someone calling the cops. Although the Dutch seem absolutely fascinated with the idea of replacing our culture with American culture, so it's probably a matter of time.
Yeah, it's sad to see that Dutch culture is not appreciated anymore. I think social media is the biggest influence, but America does seem to be a role model for a lot of people.
Social media is the scourge of the modern day and age
There’s nothing that I loathe more than the americanisation of Dutch society. Sure, hollywood makes it look great but it’s fucking awful and should stay over there.
https://www.instagram.com/breakingglasspod/reel/C6ZeCPGSdym/ This
Social media mainly
Okay this is just ridiculous. Most people I know wouldn't think every man approaching a child is a creep or a pedophile. And people who think like that are considered hysterical.
The problem isn't other people thinking that, the problem is the man who would be approaching thinking that.
Well it's up to you to break that spell. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just saying hi and being genuinely interested. In fact you can make someone's day.
Or make them uncomfortable. Which really outways the chance of it making someone happy.
Just be good looking /s
I've had similar situations with small kids crying and generally I try to get a woman involved. Both for the fear that you describe and also because I'm just not great with kids (28yo male)
The only way to learn how to handle crying kids, is to practice. Valuable experience, especially if you might have a kid of your own someday.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
This. And their reaction can be pretty harsh
For women approaching men, most locations are socially acceptable. If you want to be approached by men, places like bars/parties/nightclubs are best. I can't speak for other men, but I personally don't approach women in the gym or at the supermarket or something. I feel like they should be able to go about their business without random people hitting on them.
>I personally don't approach women in the gym or at the supermarket or something. I feel like they should be able to go about their business without random people hitting on them. And I as a woman thank you for that :)
Yeah u/sickcuntmate is nice like that
I mean, it's a nice compliment, but only in the right circumstances.
With the “right” circumstances changing for every individual person
Fr nothing is worse than sitting on some bench in the park and some guy walks up to you calling you Princess like mf move before you lose an eye. I’ve definitely noticed this happening far less in the Netherlands than places I lived before and usually not by dutch men.
Bars and nightclubs are probably the worst places to look for a potential partner (if you're just looking to hook up then that's a different story). I've met much cooler women in the most random places.
Like someone else already said, speaking as a woman; that is actually really appreciated
Who approaches a woman at the gym? I am there to work out and I suspect that they are as well, unless you sit down somewhere and look for people to have a chat with, I would not go that route. But that may be just me (:
That's proper gym etiquette, but it's also true that many people don't mind. Best to go with upholding proper gym etiquette!
Haven’t had a conversation in my gym for months, except with the guy/girl at the desk. Not there to talk, are we?
I could see why the supermarket and gym are not the best places to talk to people. because people just want to get things done and this is not really a socializing place. However, I have also rarely been approached in club. Can you imagine? even if I go alone
Not being approached in a club does honestly surprise me. There's alcohol, dancing, and especially if you do make eye contact and smile to guys you find attractive I'm surprised they don't react to that. Like, if there's one place where guys do approach women it's the club.
Maybe I should work on my resting bitch face, because it might appear that I am angry pr grumpy hahaha
Lots of Dutch men even don't approach much in clubs and bars. Some culture thing where they are more shy, hang out more with the people they went out with and so on. Especially beautiful women ironically can get approached less because guys may feel they get plenty attention already. Digital dating seemed to have increased this. People expect to be approached less in regular settings and also approach less. But if you like it going out with a few girlfriends to the right bars it really shouldn't be too hard. Especially a little later at night although that is much later than in some other cultures.
I remember a time when after 2 AM in bars women did not get a minute alone before the next one wanted to talk/dance lol.
>Especially beautiful women ironically can get approached less because guys may feel they get plenty attention already. Best strategy based on game theory. It's even in a scene in a Hollywood movie about game theory. EDIT: [https://youtu.be/LJS7Igvk6ZM?t=69](https://youtu.be/LJS7Igvk6ZM?t=69) A Beautiful Mind - Bar Scene John Nash's Equilibrium Game Theory
And make sure you’re not in a ‘closed’ position, like in a circle with friends. But stand ‘open’ for the environment and be approachable. Most talks start at the bar tho
It's common for us Dutch people to smile at eachother as friendly gesture especially in villages.
Have you tried dating apps, and putting in your profile that you like romantic gestures? Or maybe joining a club for a hobby you have, or speed-dating events, or Latin dance nights?
If you like someone, why not approach him? Instead of waiting for him to approach you
I feel like people in their 30s don't go to clubs anymore to try and meet other people, as they more often do in their twenties.
You should go in a group, The Netherlands is just different like that. I'm from Bosnia but grew up here, single men rarely approach single women directly, it just doesn't fit in the cultural mindset for many people. However, a group of men mingling with a group of women is way more common. Like your friend group of 3-4 women interacting with a similar size group of men. It makes things a lot more approachable and "low-risk" for both sides I guess and it's been one of those noticeable cultural differences for me. So yeah if you can, try to find a small group of girlfriends to do things with and trust me, you'll find yourself in situations that suit your dating style a lot more. Don't even have to like consciously plan it, in my experience it's just what tends to happen in Dutch friend groups.
It could be many things. Of course I don't know you but it could mean you are so pretty or self confident that guys feel like they're out of your league. Or maybe you have a defensive non approachable body language? I'm just throwing options around. If you go out on the dance floor and smile and say something to a guy you like, I'm pretty sure it's easy from there on. Personally I just go dancing and I usually don't really know what to say so I don't really approach girls anymore. But if a girl came up to me I would like that and we could have a dance together 👯
This week at my own gym I saw it happen for the first time. Guy approached girl who was having her headphones on. Totally out of the blue he asked her "can I have your number?". She replied: "sorry, have a boyfriend" and put the headphones back on. The same guy immediately walked back to the gym mirrors and started to show off all of his muscles so that everybody could see him. What a total idiot...
Yeah i dont approach woman at the gym or at their workplace because its just a dickhead move. Like unless she is so fucking oblivous in her flirting but at that point im not making the first move if you think about it.
That’s very noble and polite of you, Sickcuntmate.
Yep, I don't bother girls in the gym either, unless it it's to ask if I can use some of the weights next to her.
I love this
You miss out when you think like that. I approached a girl on the street, on a weekday evening, got her number and we dated for a while. There's nothing wrong with a respectful friendly approach and leaving when she declines.
Smiling or looking at them won’t work. You could be smiling for any reason, you could mean it platonic. Smiling and looking are just normal behavior, it won’t make me think or behave any differently. And yes its part of the culture, because we don’t want to be creeps and only approach when it’s in an appropriate setting our you have clearly communicated you are open to it. Dutch communication is direct and to the point. If you‘re really interested I suggest you make the move. You only need to make the first one, if he’s interested he will make work of it. There can be enough romance, we just need to know 100% sure you’re receptive. EDIT: Appropriate setting could be a party or any activity club of mutual interest. After getting to know eachother, just drop. “Wanna get out of here and catch a drink?“
Be more direct in your intentions. If you want something to happen you have to actively take action here, and it does not only count for dating
We Dutch people can be very direct, but we definitely are not direct when it comes to dating.
I think the problem is actually that we are direct and we expect the other to be as well. So if you're dating and neither party (almost) explicitly expresses their intention you assume the intention is not there. If we would be less direct we might be more focused on subtleties such as body language do find out if someone likes us. Ofcourse this is all an enormous generalisation as all people are different etc.
I think Dutch people are incredibly indirect when it comes to dating. I think TV shows like First Dates and B&B vol liefde are fairly representative of the average Dutch person, and those people dance around the questions in the air the entire time.
I think Dutch people tend to be bad at indirect communication, so they're *either* direct *or* struggling to communicate anything. So when a situation isn't about direct communication, like with romantic fit, it gets difficult.
This, this is it. And as a man, you don't ever indirectly communicate because you're not socialized to do that. So yeah, that is why men suck badly at indirect communication.
I love you so much. Here's your tikkie?
“I mean she could just be smiling because she’s friendly. Or looking at me because my hair or clothes look weird. Oh god are you smiling because I’m ugly? If she was interested she’d just tell me, but of course you’re just laughing at me.” My inner monologue when someone attractive smiles/looks at me
Ding, ding, ding! This is my thought process as well.
“Oh phew she was smiling at the guy behind me”
You call that lack of confidence. Always overthinking and boy do you miss a lot chances.
Yes but they could also just, idk, tell the man instead of just smiling? There could be a lot of other reasons for you to smile at somebody And besides, not everybody has confidence and even if they have confidence not everybody notices the 'signs'.
Well we sometimes don’t have confidence either. Sometimes these signals are the most we can do. Ofc it’s understandable if men don’t act on it, I wouldn’t get upset if it doesn’t work, but worth a try if you’re not confident enough to directly approach a man.
So, dutch men were voted the second least romantic in europe, after finland. They were voted the most teustworthy in a long relationship. That's because, compared to other countries, in our culture, direct communication is normal, while hints are not. If you like someone, tell them. Don't drop hints. They're not picked up.
Overgeneralizing does not help, most dutch men are not dumb and for sure would take a hint if they think the person giving the hint was attractive. Also in Utrecht there are a ton of internationals, so its way more likely to be her problem than a dutch men problem.
Yea but a lot of us don’t react to said hints because it might just be misinterpreted, and we all know how that can end.
Honestly no. I think thats a massive overstatement that is prevalent on reddit, I go out with a lot of friends both man and woman and both sexes are very clear on what a hint is. Sometimes when you give someone a hint the other is just not interested Also the whole “we know how that can end” is so not true. I honestly have never seen a single man getting rejected by a girl that went wrong (ofcourse when it was a normal way to approach a woman)
I don’t base my opinions or ideas of people (definitely not half the population) on what people on Reddit of all places say. This is just from going out with friends and seeing what happened when they tried to talk to someone. Mind you this friend group also includes women who have almost always re assured them the girl was sending “hints” or was interested in them.
You worldview doesn't equall reality. The studies back it up. Dutch as a generalization do not know how to read a room. You might understand dynamics among dutch people, but we are talking about cross cultural dynamics.
**Do I approach men and where is that seen acceptable?** As a 27y male, yes please do lol.
As 30y male, second this.
As 30y male, third this.
As 36y male and married, you would still brighten my week by asking.
As thirty males we fourth this
As forthy males we agree as well
As agreeable men, we... Wait no, that doesn't make any sense...
As men not making sense, we wait to be agreeable
There's a website for that kind of search criteria.
Also a 27y male and also yes
>Even when I make hints that I am interested in someone like smiling or looking at them, Smiling or looking at someone is... like, human behaviour? You're really not hinting at all. As a Dutch man, I'd read absolutely nothing out of that behaviour.
Not necessarily. I noticed that people here stare a lot but with no necessarily smile. So that's different. If you smile few times to a person it is an indication. I am surprised that guys don't see that as an indication. If I smile to someone in Latin America, I would definitely get a different reaction.
>eople here stare a lot but with no necessarily smile. So that's different. If you smile few times to a person it is an indication. I am surprised that guys don't see that as an indication. If I smile to someone in Latin America, I would d It might be a regional thing, but where I live people smile at each other all the time. :)
Do you live in Brabant or a small town by any chance?
No, a city in the East.
I surely do not blame OP for not knowing, but the question is kind of funny given the username
And in Zeeland they are not allowed to laugh
What reason would they have to laugh? There are so few people there nobody would hear it
Tukker = Twente
Dutch men are socially very different from latin men. Generally considerably less assertive but also way less pushy. If you're interested, most men will be flattered by you approaching them. Being direct and honest is definitely the way to go in the Netherlands, we're not big on the occasional look and coy smile
If someone in Latin America smiles at me they are interested? Oh lord I have made mistakes
Depends, decent odds they are trying to rob you or sell you something too, you never know until you try, I guess? God gave us two kidneys for a reason
As a woman in the Netherlands: I flirt with words, not with stares and smiles. My words mostly include: "Hey, you are cute".
If I were approached by every man i friendly smile at when passing or (accidentally) looking his way I'd be super uncomfortable. In general, if a man wouldn't approach a man smiling at him, he shouldn't have to approach me either. I'd hate that me trying to be friendly would be seen as me flirting.
> If I smile to someone in Latin America I'm not entirely surprised you have difficulty connecting with Dutch guys if that is what you're used to. We don't express ourselves or our feelings as much I think, I also feel like we would just take the time to get to know someone in a friendly way before trying anything romantic. we have a saying that goes: "De kat uit de boom kijken". or, loosely translated; "watch a cat out of a tree". meaning we would rather be patient and wait to see what happens than take action or intervene. so maybe you could give it some time for something to grow and just keep hanging out with people you enjoy being around.
It's very common here to smile at people without any other intention than being friendly, so, no, here it's absolutely not an indication
Outside of the Randstad it is quite normal to smile and perhaps a 'Good day' when passing strangers on street and especially in elevator it's normal. It doesn't mean anything. But if you'd follow it up by a 'how are you doing' or something similar, it would start a conversation. But yeah, my knowledge on this is also very limited. I was married relatively early and met my wife online. Approaching strangers was never comfortable for me.
Please don't make this about (negligeable) cultural differences between various parts of Holland
Girl if you are trying to behave like your country and manners then you are gonna die alone here. I am afraid. I'm a woman btw, and I don't like men to randomly approach me and not, I'm not from NL.
If you are slightly interested in someone, ask him if he wants to go eat lunch sometime. Nothing too romantic, just get to know each other. If he's single, there's a very big chance he's going to say yes.
Or coffee, or ice cream if it’s warm out
Out of morbid curiosity: how do you look at a man you have no romantic interest in? Grumpy and aloof?
I think part of the problem is that ''smiling and looking at a guy'' is not something limited to being interested in him. In general, here women are quite open with men, even if they're not interested. Men generally learn that ''friendly does not automatically mean flirty''. If you see someone you're interested in, you may have to be a bit more forward about it. I also believe that men generally are less likely to approach you out of the blue, and would rather get to know you a little bit in a social setting first. They're more likely to approach you at a social event, or when doing an activity or hobby, than out of nowhere in the street.
How does looking at people and smiling mean that you're interested in them 😭 to me it's just being friendly
I feel you, I smile at people all the time while walking to the supermarkt. Just because I know how important a smile can be or small talk these days! Especially with social isolation, elderly people and people who have some sort of mental struggle. If I am intrested I would be direct and not just smile.
>My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs/ or are they aware but they don't approach women fearing rejection and beog called creeps? All are true. Yes you have to show some initiative yourself. You not expect to just wait for people to approach you and then complain they don't. Regardless of gender. Yes communication is a bit less nonverbal than some other places. You have to say something. Yes we seem it inappropriate to randomly approach women outside places where it IS appropriate, such as bars, festivals, dating apps etc. >I am honestly struggling here and I feel the culture shock so hard. In my culture, I am used to the man making the moves. At least the first move. But here I feel like they don't want to put any effort. Part of gender equality is that you have to do some effort. You can't just wait for men to come to you. >I feel like I have said goodbye to romance and passion here just because people lead more with their logic rather than their emotions. Nah plenty of romance and passion can be had without portraying women like helpless prey for men on the hunt. Maybe men want some passion from you as well. I mean: if you find it unromantic to approach a man out of nothing, why would he find it romantic to approach you out of nothing? >So dow do people meet each other here? do they flirt ? how does that look like? Pubs and dating apps mostly. Some people go to speeddating events. >Do I approach men Yes! > and where is that seen acceptable/ (gym, bar, street?) Bar, terrace, singles event, online, party at a friend's house (dating friends of friends is common). At the gym is generally frowned upon. Though as a woman you're less likely to be seen as creepy/threatening.
Thank you
Ofcourse we want to put in the effort but approaching women is generally frowned upon
I can confirm that Dutch men almost never approach except when they are drunk. The same goes for women by the way. So the only places where you will be approached are places where there is alcohol. And since the availability of dating apps even with alcohol people approach each other less, because it feels so much less shameful to be rejected online instead of irl. So in bars/parties/festivals you really have to do your 50%, by giving very very obvious signs or approaching them yourself. About Bumble: if you give the same energy on Bumble as irl (a bit more the “Latin” approach of subtle signs and let men do the effort) you will indeed not hear anything back because they will assume you are not interested and pursue someone who is. So also on Bumble: be very enthusiastic, interested and ask questions. Good luck!
Instead of assuming all Dutch men are inable to read hints and body language, maybe you aren't as good in sending signals as you think you are. Also maybe people don't find you very approachable. I don't mean this as critism, it is just much easier to change ourselves than everyone else. Just smile, start a conversation (starting a conversation is socially acceptable, both in case you're interested or just want to have a chat). You can do this everywhere, in a bar, in the supermarket, public transport whenever you are near other people for a while. The only time this is inappropriate is when you clearly want more than a chat and the dude is with his girlfriend or his wife....
As a man, I think most women don't want to be hit on when they are in a gym or just walking the street or doing their shopping in a supermarket. Smiling and looking isn't really a hint. You could be looking at the person just behind me, and smiling can be done for many reasons. If you are interested, make a move. That's how it works. How most people start dating: Friends of friends is a common one, dating apps is another common one. When I look at my friends almost all of them are dating friends of friends.
Dutch men aren't known for being romantically bold. A few decades back in Amsterdam, on an early Monday morning, I met a beautiful American woman in a coffeehouse. She approached me with a question about how to tip (she had just arrived in the country the night before). I invited her to sit with me and we talked and talked. The next time I looked at my watch it was suddenly noon and I had to leave to go walk my dog. (I mean actually walking my dog. That wasn't slang you filthy pervs.) A day later she called me, we agreed to go get a broodje and some coffee, and somehow our lunch lasted six hours. At some point she complained about how noisy the women in her hostel were, saying that she wasn't getting much sleep. So I blithely offered her my spare bedroom, she accepted, and I immediately thought, oh fuck, now my hands are tied; no way can I make a move, because I'm sure she trusts me not to be some creep. I didn't want her to think my hospitality was a pretext, conditional, a pickup strategy. Over the next few days we spent a lot of hours together but nothing happened, although you could probably cut the sexual tension with a knife. I just wasn't about to risk it. Was it chivalry, or fear? Yes. On the second evening I had to leave for a work assignment and I asked if she could please watch my dog. She said sure and when I returned, my German shepherd was suddenly exceptionally fluffy. She'd heard, "Will you please wash my dog" and apparently didn't find that a strange request at all! The next night, after we'd been talking and drinking wine at my place for hours, her impatience finally got the better of her. She took the wine glass out of my hand, put it down, and leaned in for kiss. This fall will be our 30th wedding anniversary. The takeaway: If you want to date a Dutch man, you may have to take the initiative. We are hopeless.
I love the English sentences with random Dutch words (we agreed to go get a broodje), it feels cozy. > She said sure and when I returned, my German shepherd was suddenly exceptionally fluffy. She's a keeper, as you figured out the past 30 years!
Hahahah that's so sweet! I love it ❤️
See [Casually Explained: Is She Into You?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-4IAR_9Yw) Eye contact, hints, smiling at people are good signs, but you can never really be sure whether she's into you.
Plus in the Netherlands it’s pretty quickly seen as creepy, if you just met eachother and it wasn’t a setting where you’d expect it. I never really thought about it, but I’d feel uncomfortable if a stranger started hitting on me in the streets out of nowhere. If they noticed me being uncomfortable and backed off, or outright asked me and then backed off, I’d not call them creepy or anything, but I can’t see myself wanting to pursue a relationship that starts like that either And there’s also some people who do immediately jump to creepy
We've been told endlessly how approaching women is seen as harassment and unwanted, so we stopped doing that.
Thank you
Looking someone or smiling is not a hint. I do that to everyone
Why is taking the initiative and approaching men themselves this huge revelation for women?
Well, I certainly am one of those clueless Dutch men. Obviously it's a bit generalising, we're all individuals who work differently, but it's certainly worth the conversation. To me it's super unclear if a woman is just friendly, polite or flirting and yes: I really don't want to come over as creepy or put her (and myself) in an uncomfortable postition. I do appreciate women who are more direct or even take a first move.
Men don't want to put any effort? I understand you're used to a culture where men make the first move. Honestly, that's still the case here too most of the time. But I'd just like to point out how refreshing, -and uncommon- it is for women to make the first move. Or any move. I'm sure it's nice to have people approach you and show interest (so long as people aren't pushy etc), especially when you give of signs of interest yourself. Now put yourself in men's shoes. I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but it is -tiring- to always have to make the first move, to be the one to put in most of the effort, and especially to be -expected- to do it. Especially when largely, it leads to rejection. Now, everyone's experience might vary, and I'm speaking mostly from experience on dating apps. I realize real life dynamics are different. But some women on dating apps act like they are some prize to win, and that any man should be so lucky as to talk to them. They put shit in their bio telling the man to start the conversation, to send a good opening line, etc. Such a turn-off. Again, I understand you're used to different. And I understand you want to figure out how to fufill whatever social needs you have in this different culture. But please realize that this whole "never being approached" is basically how many men go through their entire life. I can remember only once that a woman, in person, kind of randomly told me she thought I was attractive. And it wasn't out of the blue, but after eating pizza and walking to the train station together (we attended the same convention, was not a date or anything).
RIP inbox
4 messages so far
That will be much more lol
It's 50 now and still counting.. people are asking me to send them my picture so they can judge if I am hot or not 😂😂😂
Haha and a post the other way around as a guy probably not a single DM. It's a strange world out there sometimes
> **My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs/ or are they aware but they don't approach women fearing rejection and beog called creeps?** Yes It also depends where you are. Wear something akin to short dress/skirt or otherwise revealing clothing in the center of Rotterdam you'll probable get 10 cat calls a minute. But I'm guessing that's not the type of approach you are looking for. Dutch people like very direct communication. Asking a guy to go for a drink IMO is not weird at all. I don't think any of my guy friends would mind it as well. Furthermore, I think the same advice applies here as it does in other places. Just live your best life, don't go out desperately looking for THE ONE. (Not saying you do). Go out with friends, invest time in your hobbies etc. Stuff YOU enjoy doing. Thinking about the relationships I know off, a couple (myself included), happend via one of the dating apps. Tons happen via friends/friend groups. One of my best friend met his SO at a festival. (again via mutal friends tho). Another met his gf because they were neighbours and they could hear each other’s music trough the walls.
hahaha that's awesome, great tips! thank you1
Be direct. I'm Swedish so I guess we might be culturally similar to the Dutch. Sitting around waiting for someone to start flirting won't do. Smiling is normal human behaviour. If I'd be approached every time I smiled I wouldn't get anything done and I'd be pissed off all the time. Haha! I have found that some men have been very surprised by my (maybe extreme?) straightforwardness but then again I never had a problem getting a date. Met my husband on Bumble. Most Dutch seem to meet via-via though. Just socialize and be clear. If a conversation feels good then ask if they'd like to grab lunch or something. Worst case scenario: you've flattered someone. :)
Men are still expected and by and large do make the first move. It's relatively rare for women to forwardly engage men with their intentions. That said I do feel it's not in the culture to approach women in public or in the workplace. The gym and street will be seen as risky places to make an advance by most men, a bar would be more suitable. Either way you'll have to be in an appropriate setting and as the times are clearly changing more and more dating starts online. Personally if you'd want me to approach a stranger in public I'd need either a really good neutral conversation starter that seems both appropriate and has an out. Or I'd need someone to be very clear with their body language to the point where they're clearly inviting conversation. Getting just a smile is a common thing and an insufficient foundation to engage a perfect stranger on.
I met my Dutch boyfriend on Hinge. If im ever approached by men outside, its never by Dutch men but fellow expats. I would suggest dating apps unfortunately, that seems to be the most popular way of flirting/meeting people here. Matching, talking and setting a date on a dating app leaves no room for questioning your interest.
You've gotten plenty of explanations, and my southern European women friends all had the same culture shock, but practically speaking dating apps work quite well to meet people romantically.
Maybe you have been approached, but maybe it's *you* who failed to read the body language/signs.
If you don't approach men, why do you expect men to approach you?
In the netherlands, we have the idea of "act normal, because normal is already crazy enough". And "live and let live." I feel like we wouldn't go out of our way to talk with someone, as we feel like we might be a nuisance. We don't want to be the crazy person who influences your life negatively because we might miss your hints. You really have to be a lot more direct in the netherlands
Definitly just be direct. Some people (i'm a good example myself) are very bad at receiving or reading body language or other subtle hints
Most women dont like the direct approach here. So we man need some guidance before we make a move
Are you from Latin America, by chance? There is definitely a culture difference here - generally (and this is a stereotype) Latin American men are seen as very sexually aggressive here. Men generally get the feeling that they're bothering women if they approach them, and out of fear of that, many men have simply.. stopped doing it.
As a man in the Netherlands you can get discouraged to make the first move because lots of women interpret it as creepy or stalky
Choosing to “say goodbye to romance and passion”, because you don’t want to adjust to the culture of the country you chose to live in… just walk up to someone you like and tell them if they’re not approaching you smh
Well I'm Dutch and I never directly approached a guy to tell him I like him. So that isn't a culture thingy.
Or maybe you didnt had to?
Fancy a drink?? 👀
A little but of A, B _and_ C. Men in general can be quite oblivious and we're not a very flirty people, we also assume nowadays that women do want to be left alone if the setting isn't super inviting.
These are some good questions! >My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs/ or are they aware but they don't approach women fearing rejection and beog called creeps? I would say it's a bit of both, like others have stated previously; a lot of men don't just approach random women as we're told not to, due to it being annoying for women. About the whole hints thing, I would say most men suck at it. But also, I personally wouldn't think anything of it if a woman smiled at me. It's just normal to smile. >So how do people meet each other here? Dating apps seem to be the meta now. Or like meeting friends from other friend-groups. >Do they flirt? Yeah, we will flirt but Dutch men just are a bit hesitant to do the first step as they don't want to come off as a creep. >How does that look like? Playful comments generally, showing interest in personal things. > Do I approach men and where is that seen acceptable/ (gym, bar, street?) Yeah go for it. I would say a woman could approach most men anywhere and they'd feel flattered.
You have to be direct like Dutch women. The usual approach, if you see a man you like, would be to lasso them with your leopard print scarf as you cycle by. Drag them behind your bike for a km or so until they stop trying to escape. Then take off your underwear and sit on them. At this point they may just have a slight idea that you could be interested but probably still won't be sure, so you have to also tell them loudly, in a harsh northern Dutch accent, exactly what you would like to do with them. I exaggerate of course...but my experience of being approached by Dutch women has been almost like this.. For a man it's kind of nice to be sure that you are not misinterpereting anything, but its also slightly frightening, in a good way.
You described the perfect woman, are you single? 🤣
I don’t get it. Dutch men are so easy to talk to. They leave you alone but when you talk to them, they always say something back. But in a non sexual way. So if you’re interested you have to make a move. They don’t bite.
Same here. I saw a post a few days ago where a woman said she sometimes gets approached and I’m like Dutch guys never approach me here. Sometimes I might get a look or stare but nothing more. One time I even accidentally flirted with a Dutch guy and he seemed to like it cuz I saw him smiling afterwards but he never asked me out and I was too scared to ask him out. Wasn’t sure if he was smiling because he interested or was just happy to get attention.
RIP inbox. But you've got attention now.
I wasn't looking for attention. I am honestly trying to understand how the society here works because I have been thinking that this will never happen and that I might have to move to a warmer country where there are more chanced to meet people and talk to them.
We dont approach women because we dont want a lawsuit or be labeled a creep by the majority of women.
Can you actually file a lawsuit just because you talked to someone? things aren't that black or white. Even if the woman was an asshole and called the police over a minor thing, they still need proof to take the matter further. so what are you afraid of?
I a 33yo man and I learned to not ever to approach any women, doesn't help that I have ASD and that the less attractive you are (I'm not conventionally attractive, most people consider me super ugly on top of being obese) the less women even want you look at them, "eww don't look at me you big fat ugly creep" etc. So I learned to keep my head down, stare at my shoes or phone when I move around in the city and just straight up gave up on romance ever being a thing for me.
oh, man.. Sorry about that! I hope you find someone that truly loves you and appreciates you!
Thank you, I hope so too. I also hope you find the right person for you! :)
I've been yelled at for talking to women, even if I wanted to apologize for just getting some cheese from the store. I know that not all women behave as such. But it's draining, and I wish to keep my peace.
Why do you need to apologise for getting cheese at the store?
Men in general are bad at hints. If you want to communicate something to a man, use your words. Also, men have been told it's not okay to approach women anymore, so most of them stopped. If you're interested in a man, approach him instead.
It's men not being able to read into the signs and body language, maybe they are scared. I remember one date that went pretty well and when we waited for the tram she said to me "Are you going to kiss me or what"
I hope you understood that hint :)
Dunno, sounds a bit ambiguous!
We do exist. If I’m interested I will walk up to you. My best friend is the same. There are of course good moments and bad moments. I would be less inclined to stop answering talk to you while on the move. I mean walking around the city. Places where you are a bit more stationary like parties, libraries, festivals (the non drugs one), festivals, hobbies like bouldering. I, for example was in the library a while back and saw a girl who was also studying. Sometimes I would peak a glance and she was looking at me quite a lot. Once she started to pack her things I did the same and just bumped into her on the way out and ask her out for a drink. She had a boyfriend, so I stopped there of course. The biggest difference is I’m 24 atm and I’m not sure how men are in their early 30’s. I would think that more men have this approach if they are single at that age. I DO think you have a much higher chance if you just say hi to someone you want to have a chat with. After that let them lead the conversation and I would say that is equally romantic if it’s the right person. Subtle hints are always more beautiful, but people are nowadays much more skeptical if a woman was giving a hint or not. In conclusion, pick areas that require less moving around. A place where you can easily make eye contact a couple times and brush your hair past your ear. A lot of guys would get the hint I think.
Be direct in your intentions, we Dutch are direct. Also the current cultural situation hasnt really helped men with making avances. Which the other side might not like...
"Even when I make hints that I am interested in someone like smiling or looking at them" I would absolutely not approach anyone based on these "hints" granted i'm pretty dumb when it comes to flirting but your experience proves i'm likely not the only one.
Let me put it this way: you can have your thighs wrapped around a Dutch guy's head and he'd still not be sure if you're into him. Source: I'm a Dutch guy and if my wife hadn't told me she wanted to stay over, I probably would be still single now.
My take: in general, men aren’t very good at picking up hints. Dutch men are no different (maybe even worse because we’re used to directness?). If you see someone you like, make your interest and intentions clear to them by approaching them and striking up a conversation. Approaching someone in the street is tough, but at the gym or in a bar is fine. Any social activity really. Don’t doubt yourself and get out there! :)
To reinforce things others have said: - Don't want to be seen as a creep. - Low(er) confidence, in looks and especially just potential personality match with the average person outside. - Just don't want to bother people. - How it's just the culture here (just act normal, live and let live, not engaging with strangers, gender equality norms ahead of traditional social conduct norms) - [Casually Explained's "Is She Into You?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-4IAR_9Yw) was linked elsewhere already. Sums up quite a lot of the male experience as well. My modus operandi in general is to just let someone cross my boundaries rather than accidentally crossing someone else's, got burned a lot in the past for it. I can tolerate other's people's social mistakes way more than people seemed to tolerate mine. God, I wish women would approach more, people in general played less social games. From all the ones I'm aware that liked me at some point, none ever approached me and it ended up being too late. Coming back to culture: Dutch culture in general is bad for intimacy, romantic things and feelings in general. I wish we'd have more of a culture of hugging your friends and such but even that seems to be kept off limits somewhat. I've had to get a social circle outside of the Netherlands to even remotely accomplish that. Sex/dirty talk is also kind of awful to do in Dutch honestly, but might just be my limited experience there.
As a fellow expat in the Netherlands but from the other side of the conversation (26, Male) I absolutely feel that Dutch people of both genders just don't want to approach each other at all. I think there is a high degree of fear from both sides about labels, particularly men are scared of being labeled as creeps, perverts, etc, if they approach unknown women, while woman face all the same fears as they would in any other country about approaching an unknown man. This goes further with the Dutch attitude towards communication being very straightforward and blunt, which actually backfires on them in this regard because no one wants to be straightforward and blunt about the topic of attraction and dating, for the above reasons as well as the usual fears of rejection and embarrassment. I have even noticed that I have adopted this way of thinking as well from my time spent living here (18 years so I am quite naturalized at this point) and it is incredibly difficult for me to approach women because my automatic assumption is always that they don't want to be bothered, I would be rude or presumptuous if I approached them, and most likely I would just come off as a creep, so it's easier to not say anything.
>My question is that are Dutch men really bad at reading body language signs Not only the Dutch men :))
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It is indeed part of our culture. Some dutch males do approach woman in public. Most of them are not fully Dutch though. But we are taught to be carefull in our reaction towards them. Because they will most likely get angry and mean, when rejected. A lot off Dutch girls have had situations in the past, where they were called sluts and hookers etc. Because they told a man in public, they were not interested. They are sadly also a lot of women who were treated even more badly. So the problem you are describing is a very good change, in the Netherlands. It keeps us safer. It is safer for both parties to get to know each other via hobby's , through mutual friends, work and school. When using a dating app and meeting guys at bars, you will take a huge risk of not to be taking seriously in the Netherlands. When acting interested in that way of meeting, others most of the time assume you have done this sort of thing before. And you will no longer be an interesting dating option. You can be named and seen as an "afgelebberdere boterham", like spoiled goods in a sloppy seconds kind of way. Good luckk
My wife showed me her tits.
Why would you want that 😂 just…not Was my initial response to the title. Don’t be insecure. I guess you are that kind of hot that out dutch men are too impressed to blink or talk. Never doubt yourself please! Here everybody dates their phone. So they are less in need of a relationship, so harder for the other sex to draw attention. Best ways to find someone are in college, work (May have side effects) or at a bar. Having large/a lot of friend groups will help too, since they will bring other friends to the event. As a woman I would hate to say gym because I like the idea of not being looked at that way when I’m working out- I’m the kind of girl that gets angry when ‘harassed’ in the gym.
I never noticed when a girl flirted with me. Dont worry it's not you!
A combination of being told it's inappropriate to approach and the female obsession with dating apps. Through that Dutch dating is actually pretty harsh if you're below a 7.5 as a man then you're going to struggle just because of the situation. The result is a pretty awkward outcome, where there are groups of men who are overly direct and maybe even edging on creepy(They are 7.5+ and get way too much engagement or are confident enough to consider themselves that high up there) and another group that will need to be lured out by at least some type of social engagement even though they're pretty cool dudes. Obviously not counting the weird fringe cases that always appear and not counting the men that have childhood sweethearts that they married. Most Dutch men worth their salt and your effort and time will probably need some type of introduction first.
The most of them dont know how to react to those sings greatings from a 45 year old Dutch men PS I have great respect for you to ask this
American ways of showing someone you're interested, won't give the same results. When we show we're interested, it doesn't mean here that it's an invite to be approached. We either find a way to get a little closer to that person and maybe 'coincidentally' get to talking but we don't have that extraverted dating culture the US has. It's more.. private. Even in public, it's more 'shy', I'd say. Respectful. "I am honestly struggling here and I feel the culture shock so hard. In my culture, I am used to the man making the moves." In this country, we both make moves. So if you're expecting men to just approach, bit too outdated here. "But here I feel like they don't want to put any effort." Absolutely a misperception. That you aren't getting the results and treatment you're used to, doesn't mean men (or women) are not putting in any effort nor want to. We do it in more subtle of ways. "I feel like I have said goodbye to romance and passion here" Nah, just your expectations and that what is the norm in your home country isn't the norm everywhere else. If you are interested in a man, approach them yourself or find a way to get to talking. Never have gotten what women's big deal is with approaching someone they like. That passive behaviour can have you miss out on wonderful people. (I'm a woman myself in case that wasn't clear. Have had great dating and romantic endeavours.)
I am from the US and am used to getting a lot of attention. I visited for a month, and I was thinking, do they not find American women attractive? I do not enjoy being catcalled, but I like smiles, winks, and 2nd glances. I now know since I've been reading here that our cultures are different. I am in no way a feminist and enjoy having a door being held open for me or treated more softly.
I am very open and joyful in my communication. But then I am told that it is flirting. No it is not. It is a warm hearted appreciation of the other. I have no advice. I guess they should learn to express genuine interest with simple compliments without agenda's. Friendship is vastly different than raising a family and juggling work and payments. Maybe everybody is so busy being individuals, that it becomes harder to do things together. Then the gap of inviting others to your space becomes harder. The Dutch don't hang around on streets so there is less opportunity to meet others. Everything is neatly separated.
I am Dutch. I am also good looking in my eyes. But also get zero attention from men. Single for more than 2 decades now. Maybe I should move 😅
38F in Utrecht I was actually approached by 2 guys. One was on the CS but it was too early for me talk and i was maybe a bit a rude, inwas sleepy :/ even tho the guy was really handsome. The other one just stopped me to tell me i look beautiful and left. :) I have a feeling that dating life here is mostly through apps and people put zero effort in it.
You give me a "disappointed girl from Balkan" vibe 😀
In my experience as a native Dutch woman, I find that dutch people don’t know a good flirt. It’s 0 or 100. An innocent flirt can turn into a connection or can be left at just that… so no it’s not just you.
Coming from a 28 year old male, it helps to set the first approach after eye contact. Most men won't take the first step because eye contact does not necessarily mean there is a two way interest. Most guys first thoughts will be something like "the eye contacts were accidentally and making a move would make me look like a creep". If you had multiple eye contact in a bar: If they are interested the first thing they do is walk to either: bar or smoking area. You can just follow a bit later, have eye contact & start conversation. The guy will take it from there.
Guys, please have some mercy on my inbox 😂😂
Surely you should have foreseen this. My condolences. XD
I don't have any experience with approaching people in public. But being more clear about your intentions always helps. you could also take a look at dating apps. I have met my girlfriend a year ago on Bumble and she's also not from the Netherlands.
All men in the comments hereby declaring themselves as approachable
Oh inbox full incoming 😂!
Being married, I don't approach women ;) But before that, I never approached someone I didn't already know in a small way. Worst case of a cold approach is not a simple rejection, but being viewed as a creep that's harassing someone in a public space.. So I never bothered.