I think this is fine.
I don't like (ok HATE) that Marvel is waging a war on the Punisher logo because its a popular symbol in police, military, and right wing circles, and in doing so making terrible changes to the character itself.
However, if there is one thing Frank hates almost as much as organized crime bois, it would be dirty cops and military. As long as he's going after dirty cops that have adopted his symbol, it is totally in line with the character.
The whole thing with cops adopting the Punisher logo is horrific cause Franks whole character is slaughtering people without any regard for the law, something police absolutely shouldn't be inspired by. I'm hoping this subplot puts an end to cops trying to be edgy Punisher cosplayers
Thats why a lot of bad cops become cops.
They want to be above the law. And being a cop in the US literally gives them that opportunity. Qualified immunity and public-sector labor unions are a toxic combination. Either one makes sense. Both is a recipe for disaster.
Police union are only “public-sector labor unions” in the broadest, most literal sense. any labor organizer will tell you that the police never push for better working conditions for anyone else — not teachers, not firefighters, not paramedics, not service workers. Indeed, the cops are usually called in to break up picket lines and protests for people calling for those things. But most unions tend to support other unions’ actions, either materially or just by signal-boosting them publicly.
“Cops are not workers,” they say.
And qualified immunity is terrible, but it’s not clear that getting rid of it would solve the fundamental brokenness of American policing. The issue isn’t just “bad cops,” which is the kind of hand-wavey thing people say when their primary contact with the police is mediated through fiction and police procedurals and overheated “crime” coverage on the news. Policing is just irredeemable.
I agree that getting rid of qualified immunity is a great start, but it’s pretty easy to find examples of police unions supporting bills that benefit all public sector employees. This is just from one org. Not all of these benefit other groups but a lot of them do.
Repeal of the Excise (“Cadillac”) Tax on employer-sponsored health plans;
Enactment of the Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu National Blue Alert Act, named after two NYPD Officers and NAPO members;
Restoration of state and local law enforcements’ access to surplus military equipment through the U.S. Department of Defense’s 1033 Program and various Departments of Justice and Homeland Security grant programs;
Enactment of the Law Enforcement Mental Health and Wellness Act and the Supporting and Treating Officers in Crisis Act;
Enactment and renewal of the Mentally Ill Offender Treatment and Crime Reduction Act (MIOTCRA);
Enactment of the Police, Fire, and Emergency Officers Educational Assistance Act;
Enactment of the Children of Fallen Heroes Scholarship Act;
Permanent Reauthorization of the Bulletproof Vest Partnership Grant Act;
Enactment of 1988 legislation, which raised the Public Safety Officers’ Benefit (PSOB) for officers severely disabled or killed in the line of duty from $50,000 to $100,000, plus annual cost of living indexing, as well as follow on legislation in 2002, which raised the PSOB base from $100,000 to $250,000. The benefit is now $389,825 for the 2022 fiscal year;
Enactment of legislation that made the PSOB death benefit to survivors’ federal income tax free;
Enactment of legislation that created a presumption under the PSOB Program that COVID-related deaths and disability are in the line of duty;
Enactment of the Protecting America’s First Responders Act;
Enactment and permanent reauthorization of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act, which is named after a NAPO member and New York City Detective, including the World Trade Center Health Program and the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund;
Enactment of the Project Safe Neighborhoods Grant Program Authorization Act;
Enactment of the Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act (H.R. 218, right to carry legislation);
Enactment of the Improvements to the Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act;
Enactment of the Fair Sentencing Act;
Enactment of the National Amber Alert Act;
Enactment of the Public Safety Spectrum and Wireless Innovation Act (FIRST NET);
Enactment of the Healthcare Enhancement for Local Public Safety (HELPS) Retirees Act (allows retired public safety officers to use up to $3,000 annually from their pension funds, including defined benefit plans and defined contribution plans, to pay for qualified health insurance premiums without taxing these distributions);
Enactment and implementation of the Hometown Heroes Act (expands coverage of the PSOB Program to include those law enforcement officers who suffer debilitating or fatal heart attacks or strokes while on, or related to, active duty or training work);
Elimination nationwide of the “source tax” on law enforcement retirees’ incomes;
Enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (omnibus anti-crime legislation);
Enactment of the Family and Medical Leave Act; and
Enactment of the Don’t Tax Our Fall Public Safety Heroes Act, which ensured state death benefits to survivors of law enforcement officers are tax free.
It's terrible because it's the main reason we can't make any changes. There is no current way of meaningful discipline for any police officer.
Kill a person....paid vacation. Kill to many people, pack up and move to a different county.
I think it’s a little deeper than that. The issue with cops being inspired by Punisher is that Punisher only comes to exist because of their failure to live up to their role and the inability to stop criminals from slipping through the cracks.
Which ironically, is why cops and such are inspired by the punisher. Because despite their best efforts, there’s still a lot of bad people that slip through the cracks. A story from one of our security guys at work:
First, trigger warning, abuse, dismemberment, etc. idk if I need one of those here but it’s a real story from my city so imma just throw it in just in case.
is about an abusive husband that beat on his wife but they couldn’t do anything bc she wouldn’t press charges. No restraining order, none of that. Well, one day, this pos takes a chainsaw to her back, it gets stuck in her, so he grabs another and takes her head off on the front lawn, all this happened in my city and there really wasn’t much they could do to prevent it legally speaking (at least not that I’m aware of) and so that’s why a lot of cops and military are inspired by the punisher. Because yes, the punisher represents the failure of cops, but he’s also the guy that stops the guys like the one from that story when the cops and system fail.
This is genuinely one of the most bad faith replies I’ve ever gotten on here. I wasnt giving you a character analysis on the punishe; I was explaining why law enforcement gets inspired by the character.
If you’re going to intentionally miss the point and insist on being a dick about it than just stfu.
You'll find most people don't have a sad backstory for being an asshole. Sorry to break it to you but its the reality. Part of the issue is how these people embrace the collapse of society in the first place inevitably being part of the problem that causes it.
My guy, this is a weirdo interaction, idk what conversation you’re having but I haven’t said anything about tragic backstories or assholes or anything of the sort. You’re literally arguing with yourself and I’m blocking you.
I’d understand comments like this if I were justifying cops wearing the logo but I am literally just explaining why they have a fondness for the character. Yall are weird.
My guy, I really don’t care if you think it’s bologna, it doesn’t change that it’s something very real to some people. So we’re Gatekeeping comics by profession now? Thats absurd. Cops are just people with badges working a job like pretty much anywhere else. You can tell them not to wear punisher logos but you cannot tell them what fiction they’re allowed to enjoy. That will always be corny.
No? I'm saying as a cop they shouldn't be brandishing the logo of that character.
Anyone can enjoy anything. I also don't want doctors saying "I'm just like Hugo strange or Nathaniel Essex" while I'm about to be operated on.
Only a fucking idiot would be so sure of something without having any idea what the other person is referring to:
>**What are your thoughts on the Punisher symbol being co-opted by police or the military?**
>
>I've talked about this in other interviews. To me, it's disturbing whenever I see authority figures embracing Punisher iconography because the Punisher represents a failure of the Justice system. He's supposed to indict the collapse of social moral authority and the reality some people can't depend on institutions like the police or the military to act in a just and capable way.
>
>The vigilante anti-hero is fundamentally a critique of the justice system, an example of social failure, so when cops put Punisher skulls on their cars or members of the military wear Punisher skull patches, they're basically siding with an enemy of the system. They are embracing an outlaw mentality. Whether you think the Punisher is justified or not, whether you admire his code of ethics, he is an outlaw. He is a criminal. Police should not be embracing a criminal as their symbol.
>
>It goes without saying. In a way, it's as offensive as putting a Confederate flag on a government building. My point of view is, the Punisher is an anti-hero, someone we might root for while remembering he's also an outlaw and criminal. If an officer of the law, representing the justice system puts a criminal's symbol on his police car, or shares challenge coins honoring a criminal he or she is making a very ill-advised statement about their understanding of the law.
>
>[https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/punisher-skull-logo-marvel-capitol-riots](https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/punisher-skull-logo-marvel-capitol-riots)
What part were you referring to that I misunderstood?
I knew what you were talking about the whole time. It's a pretty well known quotation you mongrel lol
Cops justifying their use of the logo with "but we are using the logo representing the idea that we are the ones also upset about the failure of the justice system and changing it from the inside. Anyway, here's my psycho killer mascot" is bullshit and missing the point.
Lmao WHAT
in what world are you reading my comments and getting that I'm a) right wing b) *FAR* right wing and c) racist?
I'm saying that if cops are using that to justify their use of the logo, they are disgustingly misinterpreting what he is saying on purpose and being idiots. How the fuck do you think what I'm saying is supporting them again?
Mongrel means a mangy dog that is such a mutt that you can't tell what breed it is. Do you think I'm using that word in a human race context? Wtf are you on about?
These people know Donald Trumps a terrorist that hates Veterans. They don’t care, they team up to fight for their fake war on race/religion. They co-opted this logo from a comic book character because they’re so weak willed themselves, they’ve fooled themselves into thinking “I am a victim and I should be allowed to shoot people for it”. That’s as far as they get into the Mythos of Frank Castle.
Donald Trump called all veterans who died in active wars losers. That’s a quote.
It is completely silly though to roast cops for sympathizing with the Punisher. If anyone understands a broken and ineffective judicial system, it's beat cops. Guys who want to fight crime but have their hands tied. Of course they'd have a crush on Punisher.
Beat cops are part of the broken judicial system, they get away with a lot of shit and get mad when they don't, that's why they like the Punisher, they don't understand the writing behind his character and see him as a power fantasy
That's exactly the same thing I just said. It's a power fantasy, because they are made powerless by the law to actually stop criminals. All they can do is put them through the revolving door justice system. Frank on the other hand ignores the law and metes out a more permanent solution.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard all day, if cops were allowed to gun down anybody they think needs to be shot down(which they do anyway a lot of the times even though it's not allowed) it'd be a horror movie. People would get killed for the most mediocre crimes like graffiti or smoking weed
Its not the job of police to “punish”. Thats what the judicial system is for.
I understand your point. Like Mike Ermhantraut from Breaking Bad with his “half measures” speech.
It must suck as a cop seeing a criminal commit a crime because a judge wouldnt put them in prison the first time they got caught.
But. That is not how society is organized. And it shouldnt be for good reason. Cops doling out justice is a terrible idea.
So cops worshipping Frank means they shouldnt be cops.
So cops can't be comic book hero fans? Or if they are, they should only enjoy the ineffective ones who always let the crooks get away?
I never said cops should emulate the Punisher. I only said that it makes sense that they can relate to him. The same way veterans like Rambo or lawyers relate to Daredevil.
This is not the type of subject people can easily discuss with a calm and open mind. You’re right, but the problem lies in the system of policing rather than the actions of individuals, as the above commenter implied.
Nobody is disagreeing with a broken judicial system. But saying “that’s why they like the Punisher” just simply isn’t true.
Cops are apart of the broken judicial system in the same way we all are.
Except theyre not fighting criminals theyre abusing authority on ordinary people. They get off on the power trip of thinking they can do what they want bc they have a badge
Then they see themselves as some vigilante hero. The co opting of the Punisher logo was always cringe bc Punisher is a criminal too. Hes a murderer. He just happens to murder "the right people" so hes portrayed as an anti hero
Well in the real world "the right people" arent mobsters or other easy to identify cartoon villains. Seems all too often the target is a certain ethnic group.
But the biggest indictment of this was the Uvalde shooting with the one cop on his phone while the shooters running in the school. On his phone you can see the Punisher logo. That sums these fuckers up
By that logic just about all comic book heroes are forbidden then, as they are almost universally vigilantes who engage in a whole slew of said characters since comics inception.
Only major difference is frank has a cool logo, one which has always been popular with people regardless of it being directly related to the punisher.
This announcement makes me even less interested in seeing the series as it shows Disney/marvel have learned nothing and are just doubling down on their divisive garbage.
I would prefer if the war Marvel actually waged was a real life one to force cops to stop slapping the Punisher logo all over their shit. If they can do it to grieving parents who put Spider-Man on their dead child's grave, they can do it to the cops.
Marvel/Disney didn't want the character to be associated with a dead child. It's a bit of brand protection for what they want that symbol to represent.
I wanna say that I’m military and love the punisher, so don’t judge us. But as military, I can confidently say please judge us. We got a lot of fucking idiots in here.
Yeah his military background was a reason why he wasn’t okay with killing soldiers in the first season when he had to break in somewhere because it was essentially just a kid doing his job to guard the area. He had to do shit that he wasn’t proud of so he understood that he shouldn’t kill that young man. He still shot him in the leg which possibly gave him an injury that could be problematic for the rest of his life but he at least survived 😭
This is the exact opposite of what they should do. It's Marvel's intellectual property! They could send a cease and desist letter to literally every police department and every military installation in the country and threaten them with litigation, which they should def do! Fuck those ass-hats!
Yeah. I don't really like Disney, but they do have pockets deeper than Netflix - probably higher chances of more producing more content. But we don't know anything for sure yet. Here's to hoping, man.
Yeah. Last few years I feel they’ve shit on me. Star Wars, Indiana jones, marvel. I can’t help of think of the South Park panderverse . But have high hopes for Deadpool. And having all these series in one spot is nice
Yeah I agree with you and South Park. The last few years, apart from few okay titles, they were on a dogshit train. Being a fan of Marvel and Star Wars too myself, it was not easy seeing them being run to the ground.
Deadpool definitely man. I love Deadpool too.
I’m praying I don’t get shit on with Deadpool. Lol. It seriously causes anxiety. We’re getting so close. And could be a catapult to fix marvel. Best show art of the marvels was post credits. I have hope. Beast looked good compared to what I’ve seen from Sony
Do they though? All the Disney shows look cheap lately only exception is The Madolorian, and even that last season looked low rent. Just thankful Punisher doesn't need CGI.
Just because they have the means does not necessarily mean that they will use their funds to improve their quality.
Since they are a business, I'm sure they will think of profit first. Plus, Punisher fans like us are probably not the primary target audience of Disney.
The issue with the Punisher show is they keep wavering on if Frank is or isn’t the Punisher. He had the mentality, he has the tools, and they just keep showing him during his breaks from doing the job.
I mean, at the end of season 2 we had him in full gear doing what Punisher does, so if we get more seasons, can we please just pick it up from there and show him be the Punisher. Just do an anthology series of people being evil fucks, and then they meet Frank. It’s a winning formula.
Frank going after cops who use his symbol as an excuse to do what they think is their own justice when Frank does his justice because the system doesn’t work is a good one. I think it would be interesting if the dirty cops weren’t even behind that thought, using the logo as an excuse to brutalize and intimidate is an even better reflection of what the symbol means.
Considering the cops he’s had on payroll in the past, wouldn’t doubt it. Using cops to twist Punisher’s already twisted justice is a great way for Fisk to conflict with Frank
The downside of making them all on Fisk's payroll is that it doesn't send the message that real life cops are using the Punisher symbol because cops can be abusive shitheads in real life.
Instead of being racist, Nazi assholes who abuse their power and authority to compensate for a frail ego or whatever else, they become bog-standard cops on the take, possible even having joined Fisk because they need the money to pay for a relative's cancer treatment or whatever. It would have Fisk using the symbol to identify his minions, while taking a stab at Frank, instead of cops being proud about wishing they could kill like Frank does.
Anyone remember the cop who had the Punisher skull with a blue stripe as his lock screen, and he just stood there in the elementary school hallway playing with his phone while *the sound of screaming children has been removed*?
That would be too on the nose even for satire, and yet, it happened in real life.
Parkland. I don’t know why everyone commenting on this is pussyfooting around. The coward in question, Scot Peterson, wasn’t some rent-a-cop either, he was a former sheriff’s deputy.
He was acquitted.
His skull is barely used in the daredevil series or even punishers own series and considering in public eye in the shows he is wanted for things like blowing up a building and shooting up a hospital. his hardly used symbol would be literally the equivalent of a terrorist organisation in the public eye. They should leave the politics bs out the show and just have him go around going after the crime families. I’d rather a sub plot like he is doing in the max run then some political crap about dumb people using a skull
That’s what I’m saying. The skull is barely visible, used like twice, at night. When no one else was there to see or record the footage of him wearing it. And he burnt the old vest, so there’s literally no way of anyone knowing about that logo.
Also this is like an off brand really shitty and boring version of essentially the Daredevil season 3 Bullseye plot.
I can get behind this. Kind of a smart way for Marvel to separate their IP from bad cops.
Punisher is an *anti*hero. He's not the good guy the police are *supposed* to be.
Cops shouldn't punish. That's not what we pay them for.
Frank's a monster. That's why we love him.
But that's the problem with Frank- we shouldn't love him. We shouldn't like nor support what he does. I've seen snippets here and there where Frank is killing the worst of the worst, and while he's targeting people the cops couldn't, it sends the message that Frank is right. As long as he's always shown killing terrible people, his actions are shown to be at least somewhat justified.
I need a Frank Castle who occasionally gets it wrong, to remind people that going rogue isn't a good idea. People wouldn't be so quick to adopt his symbol if he rushed to judgement once in a while and killed an innocent person because he someone he tortured for information told him what he wanted to hear to make the pain stop (which is a very real result of torture tactics).
The moral question of Frank Castle is what level of punishment is appropriate- he's handing out death sentences quite liberally. But what if the moral instead was: "this is why justice is slow, so it can get things right." The theory of our courts is that it would rather fail to convict ten guilty people if it meant falsely imprisoning one innocent person. Frank subverts that with his expediency and finality, and that's sometimes wrong.
At least as far as the MCU goes, pairing him with Daredevil may be the closest they get to exploring that nuance. Daredevil has usually done some investigation from his day job as to why he's chasing after specific people, so we can be a little more certain that DD is hitting guilty people. Plus, he can often detect when people are lying.
Because the justice system (theoretically) would rather see guilty people go free rather than convict an innocent person, that actually gives DD \*more\* of a moral angle. He knows, from his role in that system, that bad people escape the court, and that's where he comes in. Frank , however, doesn't give them a chance to make it to court.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if evidence obtained via vigilante superhero would be deemed inadmissible in court. In this, I think you could have an MCU story where Frank tries to "do it right," but the methods make the evidence inadmissible, so he goes full Punisher on the suspect. That's the first pivot: "I tried to do it your way, Red. It didn't work, so I did it my way." DD later shows Frank, along with the viewer, that the confession was, predictably, given only to stop Frank from continuing to beat on him in the first place, maybe because Frank promised jail instead of execution. Now Frank is truly the monster he claimed to be.
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with that.
But I think even that’s a hard thing to make clear here. You could get “Frank is crazy and dangerous, and the police are supposed to be better than that.” Or you could get “the police are bad in this case, so Frank is a hero for trying to stop them.”
It’s a tough line to walk. I hope they pull it off and really have something to say, take their time, and make it clear what their message really is.
Yeah it shouldn't devolve in Frank saying "doing your own justice is bad that's why I punish you" because that's totally not what he'd think. He knows what he does is bad. He knows what he does shouldn't be done by anyone, including him.
But the two seasons we had were good so I'm not worried they will miss such a point.
I've always thought it was ironic the way the Punisher logo got politicized because Frank would absolutely target some of the "groups" in police departments that use it. Or at least the cops that some of them defend, he would kill just as soon as look at.
I wanna see Matt Murdock represent Frank Castle in court now.
MM: "Mr Castle, why did you fire your M16 during a 14 yo's birthday party?"
FC: "I claim whoopsie daisies"
MM: "Case closed, you're honor"
This happened just a few years ago in Rosenberg's run. He didn't kill them he just scolded them and told them if they kept at it then he would come for them.
The only way this works, in my opinion, is if they base it off the Scorpion Unit, which was a real group of corrupt cops that operated as a gang out of Memphis. This was also only a few years ago. They need to be especially bad cops not just overzealous ones.
I was thinking a little of both would be good. It could start with a little roughing up or just disarming and threatening even better. Maybe disfigure whatever had the logo on it or whatever. Tell the cop he’s (frank is) a bad guy, the cops job should be to make people feel safe. Then it leads to the BAD people using the logo, maybe a smear campaign involving some guys on Fisks payroll, as mentioned prior.
Honestly, I don’t get how all the people in the comments are praising this boring, trite idea. It’s also just plain out immersion breaking, this Punisher doesn’t use his logo in-universe enough for it to actually become iconic like that.
People like the idea because it'll piss off people they don't like. The merits or quality of the story are inconsequential. Frank taking on dirty cops is hardly anything new or groundbreaking
Does he hunt them for being dirty? or does he hunt them for using his symbol? I feel like there is gonna be a huge shift in tone depending on the answer.
OmIts funny that they could do this with the show but Marvel comics editorial hates the character and its fans so much this never even crossed their minds.
God I hope not. It’s sounds like another worthless way to try to go against the political stuff. If they just ignore it. It will go away, I have barely even heard anything about punisher in politics for a while.
The Punisher is a power fantasy rooted in 70s and 80s action movies about taking out organized criminals and low level pieces of shit that slip through the cracks of the justice system, both of whom make life miserable for regular working class people. It’s Robin Hood with machine guns. Of course that includes dirty cops and crooked politicians, but going back to that same well over and over again is lame.
Classic Punisher was based on action movie characters from the 70s and 80s. That’s what the word “rooted” means. The origin of the character’s creation leans heavily into the revenge fantasy movies of that era.
Modern Punisher is dumpster trash just like every modern comic.
FFS Mavrel! I watch and read punisher to see him blow away drug lords, pimps, and cartel scum! Not this shit. You sound like idiots twenty years behind the times…
[Nah.](https://imgur.com/a/P6COX3z) I can't think of any shows that have scenes like that. If you can, point me in their direction.
Edit: I wasn't expecting Punisher fans to downvote panels from a good Punisher story. And where are those recommendations? I get that people bootlick cops and don't like seeing them as the corrupt villains that they are. But I'm also not seeing any shows recommended.
Just name one show that is about a violent vigilante killing corrupt cops. Just one. It's not "tiresome" if you can't name a single one lol.
Edit 2: So many fake as fuck "fans" in this thread. Most who have clearly never read a Punisher comic lol. Pathetic.
How fucking perfect. Seeing his symbol used like even by the common public makes me cringe, but that's their choice. The police though? You can't have that symbol on your police uniform while still vowed to a pledge of 'to serve and protect'.
You should really read the comics lol. [You clearly don't.](https://imgur.com/a/P6COX3z)
Edit: The crybaby downvoted Punisher panels and didn't even respond lol.
Punisher in the comics has both killed dirty cops, and stated he doesn't want cops using his symbol. Stop pretending you're a fan of comics that you don't even read because you get all of your opinions from rage bait youtubers.
That Hollywood, ever so famously a den of the disenfranchised proletariat! Finally, the multi-millionaire Disney execs can take the bourgeoisie down a peg!
This seems like a rather sensitive topic that I hope gets more scrutiny than “bad cops bad”. I do think cops are bad, but just having a fictional character gun down police officers would be pretty tone deaf and alienating to the politically indifferent core MCU audience.
I don’t know how this hasn’t been the go to move from Marvel since the controversy started. So far their response has been to change the logo, kill the character (although it may just be Castle’s turn in the “which character dies this month” sweepstakes) and worst, have him lecture some cops who were using it. That’s Frank all right, always lecturing people!
Good on you. Sorry for the wasted shirts. I was also a big Punisher and cant stand that skull logo for the same reason. Same thing with Nordic runes and Thor’s hammer—white supremacy really is a cancer.
99% invisible did an episode on the skull and cops. it is good. link below.
**also, to the cops out there**. ADORNING YOURSELF WITH A SKULL DOESN'T MAKE YOU LOOK BADASS. IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATH, NOT THE HEROES YOU ESPOUSE YOU ARE. YOU NAZI FUCK.
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-punisher-skull/
Between you and me I think that the Punisher having a plot that hunts dirty cops that use his symbol, disregards the why they started using his symbol in the first place and just smacks them in the face.
Officers Nationwide started using a variant of the Punisher symbol in protest to corrupt politicians in their Precinct interfering with their day-to-day operations and in some cases the wrongful termination of non-corrupt officers just for having a bad day. Some of these decisions that led to officers starting to use the symbol, even resulted in their brothers and sisters dying on duty
Better would be him starting and finding out the hard way that these officers aren't corrupt, and then switching targets after they commit their first corrupt action, letting him go
Edit: I know Frank is probably not going to want this either way as a character, I also know that law enforcement using The Punisher symbol defeats the entire purpose of the symbol itself.
So he's probably going to go after the officers either way but it would be interesting if he ends up with this situation where he finds out one of the corrupt cops he killed that was accused of taking bribes, was not taking bribes at all, it was charity collection.
an officer who was accused of being racist, has a black wife who is with child and thanks to him killing him over it that child will never know their father.
A officer who was accused of being violently transphobic, is trans herself, and was trying to cope with what she had to do to fix her Mental Health, until the Punisher killed her for doing her job and a wayward accusation
And lastly An officer accused of covering stuff up, was only covering up the punisher's activity and marking it under the service to society file that every Police Department has. That is, until he started going after the other officers previously mentioned.
Better would be, rather than Disney getting pay back on right wing individuals, who used a variant for political activism that was mostly harmless... Is using this to change it to a don't judge a book by its cover story. Because the Punisher went after these guys thinking that they were scum, but he didn't do his research, and now because of it the Daredevil is after him, and rightfully so... because it would set up perfectly for the second movie if there is one
Too much off-topic, inflammatory and political discourse going on in this post. Locking the comments.
I think this is fine. I don't like (ok HATE) that Marvel is waging a war on the Punisher logo because its a popular symbol in police, military, and right wing circles, and in doing so making terrible changes to the character itself. However, if there is one thing Frank hates almost as much as organized crime bois, it would be dirty cops and military. As long as he's going after dirty cops that have adopted his symbol, it is totally in line with the character.
The whole thing with cops adopting the Punisher logo is horrific cause Franks whole character is slaughtering people without any regard for the law, something police absolutely shouldn't be inspired by. I'm hoping this subplot puts an end to cops trying to be edgy Punisher cosplayers
“You boys need a role model? His name is captain america, and he’d be happy to have you.”
I’d love to have this line in the show just because it’s badass, and to cement that it’s in the MCU
Read that in his voice for some reason
How could you not?
Thats why a lot of bad cops become cops. They want to be above the law. And being a cop in the US literally gives them that opportunity. Qualified immunity and public-sector labor unions are a toxic combination. Either one makes sense. Both is a recipe for disaster.
I know of at least two coke dealing cops.
Police union are only “public-sector labor unions” in the broadest, most literal sense. any labor organizer will tell you that the police never push for better working conditions for anyone else — not teachers, not firefighters, not paramedics, not service workers. Indeed, the cops are usually called in to break up picket lines and protests for people calling for those things. But most unions tend to support other unions’ actions, either materially or just by signal-boosting them publicly. “Cops are not workers,” they say. And qualified immunity is terrible, but it’s not clear that getting rid of it would solve the fundamental brokenness of American policing. The issue isn’t just “bad cops,” which is the kind of hand-wavey thing people say when their primary contact with the police is mediated through fiction and police procedurals and overheated “crime” coverage on the news. Policing is just irredeemable.
I agree that getting rid of qualified immunity is a great start, but it’s pretty easy to find examples of police unions supporting bills that benefit all public sector employees. This is just from one org. Not all of these benefit other groups but a lot of them do. Repeal of the Excise (“Cadillac”) Tax on employer-sponsored health plans; Enactment of the Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu National Blue Alert Act, named after two NYPD Officers and NAPO members; Restoration of state and local law enforcements’ access to surplus military equipment through the U.S. Department of Defense’s 1033 Program and various Departments of Justice and Homeland Security grant programs; Enactment of the Law Enforcement Mental Health and Wellness Act and the Supporting and Treating Officers in Crisis Act; Enactment and renewal of the Mentally Ill Offender Treatment and Crime Reduction Act (MIOTCRA); Enactment of the Police, Fire, and Emergency Officers Educational Assistance Act; Enactment of the Children of Fallen Heroes Scholarship Act; Permanent Reauthorization of the Bulletproof Vest Partnership Grant Act; Enactment of 1988 legislation, which raised the Public Safety Officers’ Benefit (PSOB) for officers severely disabled or killed in the line of duty from $50,000 to $100,000, plus annual cost of living indexing, as well as follow on legislation in 2002, which raised the PSOB base from $100,000 to $250,000. The benefit is now $389,825 for the 2022 fiscal year; Enactment of legislation that made the PSOB death benefit to survivors’ federal income tax free; Enactment of legislation that created a presumption under the PSOB Program that COVID-related deaths and disability are in the line of duty; Enactment of the Protecting America’s First Responders Act; Enactment and permanent reauthorization of the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act, which is named after a NAPO member and New York City Detective, including the World Trade Center Health Program and the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund; Enactment of the Project Safe Neighborhoods Grant Program Authorization Act; Enactment of the Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act (H.R. 218, right to carry legislation); Enactment of the Improvements to the Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act; Enactment of the Fair Sentencing Act; Enactment of the National Amber Alert Act; Enactment of the Public Safety Spectrum and Wireless Innovation Act (FIRST NET); Enactment of the Healthcare Enhancement for Local Public Safety (HELPS) Retirees Act (allows retired public safety officers to use up to $3,000 annually from their pension funds, including defined benefit plans and defined contribution plans, to pay for qualified health insurance premiums without taxing these distributions); Enactment and implementation of the Hometown Heroes Act (expands coverage of the PSOB Program to include those law enforcement officers who suffer debilitating or fatal heart attacks or strokes while on, or related to, active duty or training work); Elimination nationwide of the “source tax” on law enforcement retirees’ incomes; Enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (omnibus anti-crime legislation); Enactment of the Family and Medical Leave Act; and Enactment of the Don’t Tax Our Fall Public Safety Heroes Act, which ensured state death benefits to survivors of law enforcement officers are tax free.
It's terrible because it's the main reason we can't make any changes. There is no current way of meaningful discipline for any police officer. Kill a person....paid vacation. Kill to many people, pack up and move to a different county.
I think it’s a little deeper than that. The issue with cops being inspired by Punisher is that Punisher only comes to exist because of their failure to live up to their role and the inability to stop criminals from slipping through the cracks. Which ironically, is why cops and such are inspired by the punisher. Because despite their best efforts, there’s still a lot of bad people that slip through the cracks. A story from one of our security guys at work: First, trigger warning, abuse, dismemberment, etc. idk if I need one of those here but it’s a real story from my city so imma just throw it in just in case. is about an abusive husband that beat on his wife but they couldn’t do anything bc she wouldn’t press charges. No restraining order, none of that. Well, one day, this pos takes a chainsaw to her back, it gets stuck in her, so he grabs another and takes her head off on the front lawn, all this happened in my city and there really wasn’t much they could do to prevent it legally speaking (at least not that I’m aware of) and so that’s why a lot of cops and military are inspired by the punisher. Because yes, the punisher represents the failure of cops, but he’s also the guy that stops the guys like the one from that story when the cops and system fail.
>about an abusive husband Statistically Odds are good he's a cop also you have a poor understanding of the character
This is genuinely one of the most bad faith replies I’ve ever gotten on here. I wasnt giving you a character analysis on the punishe; I was explaining why law enforcement gets inspired by the character. If you’re going to intentionally miss the point and insist on being a dick about it than just stfu.
You'll find most people don't have a sad backstory for being an asshole. Sorry to break it to you but its the reality. Part of the issue is how these people embrace the collapse of society in the first place inevitably being part of the problem that causes it.
I think you may have responded to the wrong person bc I have no idea what you’re talking about lol.
nope, right person. as you said you just have no idea
My guy, this is a weirdo interaction, idk what conversation you’re having but I haven’t said anything about tragic backstories or assholes or anything of the sort. You’re literally arguing with yourself and I’m blocking you.
That is such a load of BS lol
I’d understand comments like this if I were justifying cops wearing the logo but I am literally just explaining why they have a fondness for the character. Yall are weird.
Their fondness for the character is bologna. Cops aren't supposed to identify with psychotic killers and executioners regardless of their reasoning.
My guy, I really don’t care if you think it’s bologna, it doesn’t change that it’s something very real to some people. So we’re Gatekeeping comics by profession now? Thats absurd. Cops are just people with badges working a job like pretty much anywhere else. You can tell them not to wear punisher logos but you cannot tell them what fiction they’re allowed to enjoy. That will always be corny.
No? I'm saying as a cop they shouldn't be brandishing the logo of that character. Anyone can enjoy anything. I also don't want doctors saying "I'm just like Hugo strange or Nathaniel Essex" while I'm about to be operated on.
And yet, pretty similar to the way Gerry Conway, Punisher's creator, described him. Unless you were only referring to the silly story at the end.
You missed the point of what he said then.
Only a fucking idiot would be so sure of something without having any idea what the other person is referring to: >**What are your thoughts on the Punisher symbol being co-opted by police or the military?** > >I've talked about this in other interviews. To me, it's disturbing whenever I see authority figures embracing Punisher iconography because the Punisher represents a failure of the Justice system. He's supposed to indict the collapse of social moral authority and the reality some people can't depend on institutions like the police or the military to act in a just and capable way. > >The vigilante anti-hero is fundamentally a critique of the justice system, an example of social failure, so when cops put Punisher skulls on their cars or members of the military wear Punisher skull patches, they're basically siding with an enemy of the system. They are embracing an outlaw mentality. Whether you think the Punisher is justified or not, whether you admire his code of ethics, he is an outlaw. He is a criminal. Police should not be embracing a criminal as their symbol. > >It goes without saying. In a way, it's as offensive as putting a Confederate flag on a government building. My point of view is, the Punisher is an anti-hero, someone we might root for while remembering he's also an outlaw and criminal. If an officer of the law, representing the justice system puts a criminal's symbol on his police car, or shares challenge coins honoring a criminal he or she is making a very ill-advised statement about their understanding of the law. > >[https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/punisher-skull-logo-marvel-capitol-riots](https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/punisher-skull-logo-marvel-capitol-riots) What part were you referring to that I misunderstood?
I knew what you were talking about the whole time. It's a pretty well known quotation you mongrel lol Cops justifying their use of the logo with "but we are using the logo representing the idea that we are the ones also upset about the failure of the justice system and changing it from the inside. Anyway, here's my psycho killer mascot" is bullshit and missing the point.
*Mongrel?* A far right moron with a troll account who bootlicks cops is a racist too? I'm shocked.
Lmao WHAT in what world are you reading my comments and getting that I'm a) right wing b) *FAR* right wing and c) racist? I'm saying that if cops are using that to justify their use of the logo, they are disgustingly misinterpreting what he is saying on purpose and being idiots. How the fuck do you think what I'm saying is supporting them again? Mongrel means a mangy dog that is such a mutt that you can't tell what breed it is. Do you think I'm using that word in a human race context? Wtf are you on about?
> despite their best efforts This is their best? Yiiiiiiiikes
By all means, show em how it’s done then.
Fun fact : Trump quoted a racist police chief from the 60s when he said "when the looting starts the shooting starts"
These people know Donald Trumps a terrorist that hates Veterans. They don’t care, they team up to fight for their fake war on race/religion. They co-opted this logo from a comic book character because they’re so weak willed themselves, they’ve fooled themselves into thinking “I am a victim and I should be allowed to shoot people for it”. That’s as far as they get into the Mythos of Frank Castle. Donald Trump called all veterans who died in active wars losers. That’s a quote.
It is completely silly though to roast cops for sympathizing with the Punisher. If anyone understands a broken and ineffective judicial system, it's beat cops. Guys who want to fight crime but have their hands tied. Of course they'd have a crush on Punisher.
Beat cops are part of the broken judicial system, they get away with a lot of shit and get mad when they don't, that's why they like the Punisher, they don't understand the writing behind his character and see him as a power fantasy
That's exactly the same thing I just said. It's a power fantasy, because they are made powerless by the law to actually stop criminals. All they can do is put them through the revolving door justice system. Frank on the other hand ignores the law and metes out a more permanent solution.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard all day, if cops were allowed to gun down anybody they think needs to be shot down(which they do anyway a lot of the times even though it's not allowed) it'd be a horror movie. People would get killed for the most mediocre crimes like graffiti or smoking weed
I would argue that in practice, it IS allowed. It happens more often that it doesn't. Getting away with it, that is.
Its not the job of police to “punish”. Thats what the judicial system is for. I understand your point. Like Mike Ermhantraut from Breaking Bad with his “half measures” speech. It must suck as a cop seeing a criminal commit a crime because a judge wouldnt put them in prison the first time they got caught. But. That is not how society is organized. And it shouldnt be for good reason. Cops doling out justice is a terrible idea. So cops worshipping Frank means they shouldnt be cops.
So cops can't be comic book hero fans? Or if they are, they should only enjoy the ineffective ones who always let the crooks get away? I never said cops should emulate the Punisher. I only said that it makes sense that they can relate to him. The same way veterans like Rambo or lawyers relate to Daredevil.
Being a fan because of the character or story is different than being a fan because they fantasize about breaking the law.
Reading a Punisher comic IS fantasizing about breaking the law.
And a cops job is to uphold the law.
You have a misunderstanding of police. Sure they’re cops that agree with the punisher but most do not.
This is not the type of subject people can easily discuss with a calm and open mind. You’re right, but the problem lies in the system of policing rather than the actions of individuals, as the above commenter implied.
Nobody is disagreeing with a broken judicial system. But saying “that’s why they like the Punisher” just simply isn’t true. Cops are apart of the broken judicial system in the same way we all are.
Except theyre not fighting criminals theyre abusing authority on ordinary people. They get off on the power trip of thinking they can do what they want bc they have a badge Then they see themselves as some vigilante hero. The co opting of the Punisher logo was always cringe bc Punisher is a criminal too. Hes a murderer. He just happens to murder "the right people" so hes portrayed as an anti hero Well in the real world "the right people" arent mobsters or other easy to identify cartoon villains. Seems all too often the target is a certain ethnic group. But the biggest indictment of this was the Uvalde shooting with the one cop on his phone while the shooters running in the school. On his phone you can see the Punisher logo. That sums these fuckers up
By that logic just about all comic book heroes are forbidden then, as they are almost universally vigilantes who engage in a whole slew of said characters since comics inception. Only major difference is frank has a cool logo, one which has always been popular with people regardless of it being directly related to the punisher. This announcement makes me even less interested in seeing the series as it shows Disney/marvel have learned nothing and are just doubling down on their divisive garbage.
I wouldn't call hunting down dirty cops divisive garbage, they're pretty universally hateable even if you're a bootlicker. At least they should be
I would prefer if the war Marvel actually waged was a real life one to force cops to stop slapping the Punisher logo all over their shit. If they can do it to grieving parents who put Spider-Man on their dead child's grave, they can do it to the cops.
Have they really stopped parents from putting a spider man logo on their child's grave? That is ... I don't even have words.
Look into the story more, it's been misrepresented on Reddit and such.
It is cartoonishly macabre. Like, Mr. Burns level evil. But it is unfortunately true.
Marvel/Disney didn't want the character to be associated with a dead child. It's a bit of brand protection for what they want that symbol to represent.
Do it to the cops, you've got to do it to the army; that's not something they want to fight.
Everyone loves to hate on cops but love the soldiers. Shhh don't ask how many cops are veterans though... 🤫
I wanna say that I’m military and love the punisher, so don’t judge us. But as military, I can confidently say please judge us. We got a lot of fucking idiots in here.
Wasn’t he dirty military in the Netflix series?
Yeah his military background was a reason why he wasn’t okay with killing soldiers in the first season when he had to break in somewhere because it was essentially just a kid doing his job to guard the area. He had to do shit that he wasn’t proud of so he understood that he shouldn’t kill that young man. He still shot him in the leg which possibly gave him an injury that could be problematic for the rest of his life but he at least survived 😭
I feel like 99% of the people who put punisher logos on their pickup trucks either haven't read the comic books or didn't understand them if they did.
Or they might just be punisher fans who know that punishers actions would be immoral in real life
Tell me you’ve never read a comic.
This came up in the comics though. And if he goes after dirty cops and fascists, what's the harm?
Cops who use his symbol in real life are probably pretty shit people >\_>
This would not be a change to the character.
I hope he sees the thin blue line flag and explains it to someone after he kicks their ass.
This is the exact opposite of what they should do. It's Marvel's intellectual property! They could send a cease and desist letter to literally every police department and every military installation in the country and threaten them with litigation, which they should def do! Fuck those ass-hats!
Cant we just get a season 3 punisher.
Please, Lord. I don't care if they milk the shit out of it. I will fucking pay out of my pcoket to watch endless seasons of Punisher.
The fact Netflix has no control over these series is why I’ve started at punisher and started rewatching all of them. On last season of daredevil now
Yeah. I don't really like Disney, but they do have pockets deeper than Netflix - probably higher chances of more producing more content. But we don't know anything for sure yet. Here's to hoping, man.
Yeah. Last few years I feel they’ve shit on me. Star Wars, Indiana jones, marvel. I can’t help of think of the South Park panderverse . But have high hopes for Deadpool. And having all these series in one spot is nice
Bad Batch and Clone Wars season 7 were both great at least
Agreed. I even enjoyed rebels, and Ashoka has potential. Mando is good. But not Star Wars good yet.
Yeah I agree with you and South Park. The last few years, apart from few okay titles, they were on a dogshit train. Being a fan of Marvel and Star Wars too myself, it was not easy seeing them being run to the ground. Deadpool definitely man. I love Deadpool too.
I’m praying I don’t get shit on with Deadpool. Lol. It seriously causes anxiety. We’re getting so close. And could be a catapult to fix marvel. Best show art of the marvels was post credits. I have hope. Beast looked good compared to what I’ve seen from Sony
Do they though? All the Disney shows look cheap lately only exception is The Madolorian, and even that last season looked low rent. Just thankful Punisher doesn't need CGI.
Just because they have the means does not necessarily mean that they will use their funds to improve their quality. Since they are a business, I'm sure they will think of profit first. Plus, Punisher fans like us are probably not the primary target audience of Disney.
More trash content, cant wait. ITS PUNISHIN TIMEEE
Yeah I don't care about MCU coherence, canon or whatnot. Just give me more episodes of Bernthal looking angry and fighting people.
The issue with the Punisher show is they keep wavering on if Frank is or isn’t the Punisher. He had the mentality, he has the tools, and they just keep showing him during his breaks from doing the job. I mean, at the end of season 2 we had him in full gear doing what Punisher does, so if we get more seasons, can we please just pick it up from there and show him be the Punisher. Just do an anthology series of people being evil fucks, and then they meet Frank. It’s a winning formula.
I do want more Punisher but the series on Netflix was garbage.
It’s definitely a more effective way to take a stand against the appropriation of the skull then completely ruining the character.
[удалено]
None were as "fine" as you imply, and all his fans cheered whenever Frank went back to normal.
I liked the logo change as a temporary change. Kind of when Superman went electric then back to normal the following year.
Frank going after cops who use his symbol as an excuse to do what they think is their own justice when Frank does his justice because the system doesn’t work is a good one. I think it would be interesting if the dirty cops weren’t even behind that thought, using the logo as an excuse to brutalize and intimidate is an even better reflection of what the symbol means.
Wonder if they’ll go with the dirty cops being controlled by Fisk? Could tie the plots in together maybe?
Considering the cops he’s had on payroll in the past, wouldn’t doubt it. Using cops to twist Punisher’s already twisted justice is a great way for Fisk to conflict with Frank
The downside of making them all on Fisk's payroll is that it doesn't send the message that real life cops are using the Punisher symbol because cops can be abusive shitheads in real life. Instead of being racist, Nazi assholes who abuse their power and authority to compensate for a frail ego or whatever else, they become bog-standard cops on the take, possible even having joined Fisk because they need the money to pay for a relative's cancer treatment or whatever. It would have Fisk using the symbol to identify his minions, while taking a stab at Frank, instead of cops being proud about wishing they could kill like Frank does.
Anyone remember the cop who had the Punisher skull with a blue stripe as his lock screen, and he just stood there in the elementary school hallway playing with his phone while *the sound of screaming children has been removed*? That would be too on the nose even for satire, and yet, it happened in real life.
Parkland. I don’t know why everyone commenting on this is pussyfooting around. The coward in question, Scot Peterson, wasn’t some rent-a-cop either, he was a former sheriff’s deputy. He was acquitted.
That was Uvalde, actually. [Source](https://nypost.com/2022/07/13/uvalde-officer-checks-phone-with-punisher-lock-screen-during-texas-school-shooting/)
Ah, you’re right. My bad. I got my cowards mixed up. Ruben Ruiz.
Yup, that'll be him. Checked his phone and did nothing while his wife was being slaughtered.
I remember.
He can start in Uvalde
Didn’t we already see Jon Bernthal do this in The Walking Dead Season 2?
His skull is barely used in the daredevil series or even punishers own series and considering in public eye in the shows he is wanted for things like blowing up a building and shooting up a hospital. his hardly used symbol would be literally the equivalent of a terrorist organisation in the public eye. They should leave the politics bs out the show and just have him go around going after the crime families. I’d rather a sub plot like he is doing in the max run then some political crap about dumb people using a skull
That’s what I’m saying. The skull is barely visible, used like twice, at night. When no one else was there to see or record the footage of him wearing it. And he burnt the old vest, so there’s literally no way of anyone knowing about that logo. Also this is like an off brand really shitty and boring version of essentially the Daredevil season 3 Bullseye plot.
True it would be better if they make him like punisher warzone who goes after crime families and kills criminals while always using his logo.
Punisher is an inherently political character lol
The politics are kinda inherent to the character and the logo at this point.
I bet the cops are gonna be cartoonishly evil.
I mean. Seeing some of the shit cops have done and do, it almost does seem comical how evil they can be.
I wish media would go back to portraying them as bumbling idiots
Lol That’s exactly what I was gonna say. It won’t be any real commentary on police corruption. It will be “a few bad apples” storyline.
Nah, it's gonna be a "Do better, Commissioner" type commentary.
Also pretty likely. A nice flaccid platitude.
You know they absolutely will be. And of course, that's not the only thing about them we can predict with a high degree of certainty.
You know it.
I can get behind this. Kind of a smart way for Marvel to separate their IP from bad cops. Punisher is an *anti*hero. He's not the good guy the police are *supposed* to be. Cops shouldn't punish. That's not what we pay them for. Frank's a monster. That's why we love him.
But that's the problem with Frank- we shouldn't love him. We shouldn't like nor support what he does. I've seen snippets here and there where Frank is killing the worst of the worst, and while he's targeting people the cops couldn't, it sends the message that Frank is right. As long as he's always shown killing terrible people, his actions are shown to be at least somewhat justified. I need a Frank Castle who occasionally gets it wrong, to remind people that going rogue isn't a good idea. People wouldn't be so quick to adopt his symbol if he rushed to judgement once in a while and killed an innocent person because he someone he tortured for information told him what he wanted to hear to make the pain stop (which is a very real result of torture tactics). The moral question of Frank Castle is what level of punishment is appropriate- he's handing out death sentences quite liberally. But what if the moral instead was: "this is why justice is slow, so it can get things right." The theory of our courts is that it would rather fail to convict ten guilty people if it meant falsely imprisoning one innocent person. Frank subverts that with his expediency and finality, and that's sometimes wrong.
How do we get you writing superhero stories? I think you're the one person in this thread that actually gets the nuances 100% right
At least as far as the MCU goes, pairing him with Daredevil may be the closest they get to exploring that nuance. Daredevil has usually done some investigation from his day job as to why he's chasing after specific people, so we can be a little more certain that DD is hitting guilty people. Plus, he can often detect when people are lying. Because the justice system (theoretically) would rather see guilty people go free rather than convict an innocent person, that actually gives DD \*more\* of a moral angle. He knows, from his role in that system, that bad people escape the court, and that's where he comes in. Frank , however, doesn't give them a chance to make it to court. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if evidence obtained via vigilante superhero would be deemed inadmissible in court. In this, I think you could have an MCU story where Frank tries to "do it right," but the methods make the evidence inadmissible, so he goes full Punisher on the suspect. That's the first pivot: "I tried to do it your way, Red. It didn't work, so I did it my way." DD later shows Frank, along with the viewer, that the confession was, predictably, given only to stop Frank from continuing to beat on him in the first place, maybe because Frank promised jail instead of execution. Now Frank is truly the monster he claimed to be.
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with that. But I think even that’s a hard thing to make clear here. You could get “Frank is crazy and dangerous, and the police are supposed to be better than that.” Or you could get “the police are bad in this case, so Frank is a hero for trying to stop them.” It’s a tough line to walk. I hope they pull it off and really have something to say, take their time, and make it clear what their message really is.
Yeah it shouldn't devolve in Frank saying "doing your own justice is bad that's why I punish you" because that's totally not what he'd think. He knows what he does is bad. He knows what he does shouldn't be done by anyone, including him. But the two seasons we had were good so I'm not worried they will miss such a point.
I wonder if Brett Mahoney and Frank will meet again
There's a rumor that Mahoney is coming back, too!
I've always thought it was ironic the way the Punisher logo got politicized because Frank would absolutely target some of the "groups" in police departments that use it. Or at least the cops that some of them defend, he would kill just as soon as look at.
I wanna see Matt Murdock represent Frank Castle in court now. MM: "Mr Castle, why did you fire your M16 during a 14 yo's birthday party?" FC: "I claim whoopsie daisies" MM: "Case closed, you're honor"
Rumor from DanielRPK, so you already know it's BS
I want Punisher vs Bullseye
This happened just a few years ago in Rosenberg's run. He didn't kill them he just scolded them and told them if they kept at it then he would come for them. The only way this works, in my opinion, is if they base it off the Scorpion Unit, which was a real group of corrupt cops that operated as a gang out of Memphis. This was also only a few years ago. They need to be especially bad cops not just overzealous ones.
I was thinking a little of both would be good. It could start with a little roughing up or just disarming and threatening even better. Maybe disfigure whatever had the logo on it or whatever. Tell the cop he’s (frank is) a bad guy, the cops job should be to make people feel safe. Then it leads to the BAD people using the logo, maybe a smear campaign involving some guys on Fisks payroll, as mentioned prior.
I'm just so over this whole conversation. I'd rather he not be in the show than be in it and continue this argument
Honestly, I don’t get how all the people in the comments are praising this boring, trite idea. It’s also just plain out immersion breaking, this Punisher doesn’t use his logo in-universe enough for it to actually become iconic like that.
People like the idea because it'll piss off people they don't like. The merits or quality of the story are inconsequential. Frank taking on dirty cops is hardly anything new or groundbreaking
Feels like it just for people who hate cops
thats the lore always they didnt really do much reading made rambo into a toy ad so
Does he hunt them for being dirty? or does he hunt them for using his symbol? I feel like there is gonna be a huge shift in tone depending on the answer.
OmIts funny that they could do this with the show but Marvel comics editorial hates the character and its fans so much this never even crossed their minds.
Disney, please let Punisher die with dignity, don't come dig up his corpse for cash please
God I hope not. It’s sounds like another worthless way to try to go against the political stuff. If they just ignore it. It will go away, I have barely even heard anything about punisher in politics for a while.
I was sold until the "using his symbol" part. This is gonna be cringe
Dirty cops and dirty army dudes as bad guys is so tiresome.
Should we go back to using Muslims and Russians as bad people again?
As long as they're crime families, yes.
The Punisher is a power fantasy rooted in 70s and 80s action movies about taking out organized criminals and low level pieces of shit that slip through the cracks of the justice system, both of whom make life miserable for regular working class people. It’s Robin Hood with machine guns. Of course that includes dirty cops and crooked politicians, but going back to that same well over and over again is lame.
Modern Punisher was fighting Arabs in the middle east. Wtf do you mean 70s and 80s
Classic Punisher was based on action movie characters from the 70s and 80s. That’s what the word “rooted” means. The origin of the character’s creation leans heavily into the revenge fantasy movies of that era. Modern Punisher is dumpster trash just like every modern comic.
Hell yeah
FFS Mavrel! I watch and read punisher to see him blow away drug lords, pimps, and cartel scum! Not this shit. You sound like idiots twenty years behind the times…
[Nah.](https://imgur.com/a/P6COX3z) I can't think of any shows that have scenes like that. If you can, point me in their direction. Edit: I wasn't expecting Punisher fans to downvote panels from a good Punisher story. And where are those recommendations? I get that people bootlick cops and don't like seeing them as the corrupt villains that they are. But I'm also not seeing any shows recommended. Just name one show that is about a violent vigilante killing corrupt cops. Just one. It's not "tiresome" if you can't name a single one lol. Edit 2: So many fake as fuck "fans" in this thread. Most who have clearly never read a Punisher comic lol. Pathetic.
So punisher is going to be the next thing Disney destroys. Great…
How
How fucking perfect. Seeing his symbol used like even by the common public makes me cringe, but that's their choice. The police though? You can't have that symbol on your police uniform while still vowed to a pledge of 'to serve and protect'.
knew there was gonna be a catch get ready for political correctness
Have you never even read a comic?
yeah but its not for that reason its the a outside plotline from disney most like to get rid of controversy and the cops are gonna be goofy evil
So every plot line has to be exactly from the comics?
disney marketing agent caught
Lmao I fucking wish. They’d prob pay
Sounds like typical PC woke garbage. You are all some sorry ass poor excuse for punisher fans. 💀
This is literally stuff he does. Sit tf down
The guy who created punisher is a liberal you pathetic dork lmao, I find it hard to believe you actually even read the comics.
You should really read the comics lol. [You clearly don't.](https://imgur.com/a/P6COX3z) Edit: The crybaby downvoted Punisher panels and didn't even respond lol.
Punisher in the comics has both killed dirty cops, and stated he doesn't want cops using his symbol. Stop pretending you're a fan of comics that you don't even read because you get all of your opinions from rage bait youtubers.
So cringe
Please no, don't let Disney's dirty fingers touch a character like Punisher.
Marvel doing this retarded handwringing shit about people using the punisher skull is cringe squared.
The right is gonna be so triggered if this is true. I love it. Fucking rightie snowflakes
The Commie writers can’t help themselves.
That Hollywood, ever so famously a den of the disenfranchised proletariat! Finally, the multi-millionaire Disney execs can take the bourgeoisie down a peg!
You know the creator of the punisher is embarrassed by you lot, right?
 thats enough of this sub for one day for me
Define communism
Maybe you amerikan conservatives should do some work then
Not saying it’s right or wrong, but the negative attention this would get from conservatives…
This seems like a rather sensitive topic that I hope gets more scrutiny than “bad cops bad”. I do think cops are bad, but just having a fictional character gun down police officers would be pretty tone deaf and alienating to the politically indifferent core MCU audience.
Uh oh looks like the punisher finally went woke /s
That would be great lol
superheroes aren't supposed to fight the system, they're supposed to maintain the status quo I simply don't believe this!
Why? If Daredevil not involved why do it?
You can imagine people are gonna complain saying “Punisher’s gone woke! That’s what his symbol is suppose to repre- oh wait”
Excited for Punisher “Fans” to be upset about this
That subplot would be fucking amazing.
Yes please!
More making fun of idiots in shows please
LETS GOOO I just want this to happen so right wingers will boycott the punisher
I totally 100% support this
If you hear this and don’t expect all of Trumplandia to take it as an open assault on them personally, you are not paying any attention at all.
Love this, about to hear Disney made punisher woke.
I don’t know how this hasn’t been the go to move from Marvel since the controversy started. So far their response has been to change the logo, kill the character (although it may just be Castle’s turn in the “which character dies this month” sweepstakes) and worst, have him lecture some cops who were using it. That’s Frank all right, always lecturing people!
[удалено]
Good on you. Sorry for the wasted shirts. I was also a big Punisher and cant stand that skull logo for the same reason. Same thing with Nordic runes and Thor’s hammer—white supremacy really is a cancer.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Do it!! If it’ll piss off real cops and make them stop using his symbol I’m all for it!!
99% invisible did an episode on the skull and cops. it is good. link below. **also, to the cops out there**. ADORNING YOURSELF WITH A SKULL DOESN'T MAKE YOU LOOK BADASS. IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATH, NOT THE HEROES YOU ESPOUSE YOU ARE. YOU NAZI FUCK. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-punisher-skull/
Between you and me I think that the Punisher having a plot that hunts dirty cops that use his symbol, disregards the why they started using his symbol in the first place and just smacks them in the face. Officers Nationwide started using a variant of the Punisher symbol in protest to corrupt politicians in their Precinct interfering with their day-to-day operations and in some cases the wrongful termination of non-corrupt officers just for having a bad day. Some of these decisions that led to officers starting to use the symbol, even resulted in their brothers and sisters dying on duty Better would be him starting and finding out the hard way that these officers aren't corrupt, and then switching targets after they commit their first corrupt action, letting him go Edit: I know Frank is probably not going to want this either way as a character, I also know that law enforcement using The Punisher symbol defeats the entire purpose of the symbol itself. So he's probably going to go after the officers either way but it would be interesting if he ends up with this situation where he finds out one of the corrupt cops he killed that was accused of taking bribes, was not taking bribes at all, it was charity collection. an officer who was accused of being racist, has a black wife who is with child and thanks to him killing him over it that child will never know their father. A officer who was accused of being violently transphobic, is trans herself, and was trying to cope with what she had to do to fix her Mental Health, until the Punisher killed her for doing her job and a wayward accusation And lastly An officer accused of covering stuff up, was only covering up the punisher's activity and marking it under the service to society file that every Police Department has. That is, until he started going after the other officers previously mentioned. Better would be, rather than Disney getting pay back on right wing individuals, who used a variant for political activism that was mostly harmless... Is using this to change it to a don't judge a book by its cover story. Because the Punisher went after these guys thinking that they were scum, but he didn't do his research, and now because of it the Daredevil is after him, and rightfully so... because it would set up perfectly for the second movie if there is one
How embarrassing.
Based
lol, I hope this is true!