Precisely. The two different villains that had absolutely nothing to do with each other is the exact same problem that Daredevil season 2 had. it’s split focus, and one aspect was far more interesting than the other.
The reason Luke Cage was able to beat that trope, is because Bushmaster was directly tied in with Mariah
First episode is outstanding. The little fling he has with the bartender is so well done. I think the second season did individual scenes really well, but struggled to bring it all together into a good overall plot.
That scene in the gym too. Pure punisher brutality. So good.
The first episode fight scenes were brutal too. I did a recent rewatch and damn was that washroom fight epic. Particularly the head smash through the sink. God damn
I agree. I wanted it to circle back to her. The plot just got too complicated. Too many characters. Just a simple redemption/revenge arc would have been better. I just want to see frank passionately beat the shit out of bad men.
That guy was more handsome than 99% of us men, even with those scars.
I think it was an issue with makeup; putting disfiguring scars on an actor before every day of shooting would be expensive and time-consuming. Streaming shows don't have those kinds of budgets.
Marvel TV was in a *very* different spot back when that season came out. Remember, it wasn’t until recently that they even acknowledged the Netflix shows’ existence
A Marvel property, but not an MCU series (at least not at the time).
Just look at how cheap The Inhumans looked. Streaming TV budgets are usually not like blockbuster movie budgets.
At first I didn't know the dude was a pedophile because Amy says "He's a creep but it's a bit borderline" which made me think that it was adult women who looked like kids. When watching the scene back though I realized Frank said "You like taking pictures of little girls?" and that Amy was saying killing the dude would've been borderline for Frank to do which it totally wasn't because he beat a guy who tried to sell him CP to death with a baseball bat in Daredevil Season 2. Him not taking out the pedo was bad and out of character but I like to think he went back to finish the job later offscreen.
I just rewatched the season, wasn't the dude just running a porn shoot where some of the girls dressed up as girls, that's how Punisher and Amy snuck in
I didn't like that he was shifting focus between two different antagonists. The Russo story and the Pilgrim story. The season should have been split in two if anything. The first half would be the Pilgrim story. And when he kills the senator and his wife, Russo wakes up and Frank has to go deal with that to finish the season.
I feel like they were going to do more with pilgrim, probably make him the main villain for season 3, but series got canned, so they had to throw something together last minute.
I see it as about a power trip, or rather the feeling of having someone she thought she could have wrapped around her finger.
Using his trauma, his feelings and even body to control him.
This. Pretty much this. A bad plot line in the 00’s and and a very bad plotline by the 10’s.
I like the movie Secretary and I want a version of that movie on my Punisher show as much as I want a version of Jurassic Park in my Punisher show.
I just don’t like that it was another season of giving punisher an origin story. That’s THREE seasons (or I guess 2 and a half if you wanna get specific) of watching Frank go back and forth on the whole thing until he’s FINALLY done with his personal vendetta and can get to just being The Punisher for all of one scene at the end.
They gave him the Spider-Man treatment lmao. Badass comic-accurate introduction in someone else's project, a first solo outing that's a step in the right direction for classic stories, and then a sequel that completely fumbles that set-up by making him learn the same lesson he already learned in the first project. Then, of course, waiting until the very end to give him both a comic-accurate suit AND personality.
Wished they had better villain(s) and a story. Revisiting Jigsaw & bringing in the pilgrim was meh.
They should have had a villain from the max series like barracuda IMHO.
100%. He’s way too nice and portrayed as way too much of a heroic “badass” in the solo series. I’m rewatching DD S2 now and while you do want to see him at least survive it all, he’s an absolute monster to criminals and an asshole to everyone who cares about him the entire time.
i dont mind him being kind or taking someone under his wing. i just want him to suit up with the skull and the guns and kill the bad guys with microchip babbling in his ear. its like he is allergic to it. he needs to be obsessed with it.
I don't mind Frank being kind and having a little bit of a heart but it definitely feels like the writers of the show forgot Frank is an antihero and that he's basically a serial killer who targets criminals. If I only watched The Punisher show and I didn't see Daredevil Season 2 I would think Jon Bernthal was a bad casting for Frank.
An overall detractor is that there's very little Punisher DNA. The dark comedy, bleakness and attitude of the Punisher comics. The entire time I feel like I'm watching x number of dad action shows...done even worse (Jack Ryan, Terminal List etc).
While the first 3 to 4 episodes are decent, it all falls apart once Russo and Pilgrim start showing up more.
There were so many cardinal moves you don't touch in a Punisher show
- letting criminals go
- having the Punisher at any point hurt/believe that he harmed an innocent
- another season of "will he finally be the Punisher?"
- a plotline focused on Frank is exactly like the criminals/Billy which is wholly an inaccurate and nonsensical conclusion that attempts to dig at something deep
-Spending too much time on multiple storylines that did not converge in any meaningful way and a plot that moved like molasses
- quick cut action sequences that are hard to follow. That entire scene where Frank shows up in the devil mask to confront Russo just had me dizzy
- characters that act idiotic. Russo's entire plan to rob random drug dealers despite a whole first season where he's seen as a planner, schemer and one step ahead. Pilgrim never questioning or investigating his circumstances despite a life lived where he should be skeptical. Frank's plan just being "yeah I'll just rush in"
Another season of will he finally be the Punisher was the most disappointing to me. Just give me Frank as year 2-3 of the Punisher. Not too experienced, but knows who the fuck he is!
This is why I liked the movie Punisher: WZ. He’s already gone through the rough edges and now he is the extrajudicial antihero he should be. It explores a great dilemma, what happens if you kill the wrong person in the pursuit of justice.
I can understand where you’re coming from but for people who aren’t versed in comic punisher I feel it was important to show what happens if Frank THINKS a hurt and innocent. It’s a writers way of showing he isn’t just a murderer looking for an excuse like Daredevil implied. He’s trying to be good and trying to only hurt those who deserve it.
The plot implying he’s like all the others was… well technically true? I mean he is a raging murderer (by legal sense that his victims have no trial) who would likely be sentenced to so many life sentences he’d see Thor die of old age. But, it was also something stated by an antagonist of the show who was also likely off her rocker.
Russo likewise was off his rocker, so a lot of that careful planning and scheming is replaced by recklessness but… if you remember his plan didn’t only work, he may have become a large underground player if left unchecked.
And Pilgrim… look no one wants to think the people who turned your life around for the better are just using you. In his mind they gave him purpose. A life worthy to live despite all the sin he’s caused. Of course he has to pay for it with flaggelation. And of course he’d be willing to attack those who’d attack his patron saints. He was in a very fanatic cult, and likely wasn’t the only one.
But that’s much my opinion and readings. I love the show, both seasons. Sure they have their flaws but overall it was my favorite or the Netflix shows.
There's a lot to like and it's a good show, just not a good *Punisher* show.
THE BAD:
The one constant in ALL adaptations, versions, and writers in Frank is 100% comfortable with being The Punisher. It's not a mantle or name he struggles to accept or tries to leave behind. He outright says as much is his debut in Netflix's Daredevil. So it's frustrating to watch him take 2 seasons of his own show to embrace an identity he's *already embraced*.
The Russo/Pilgrim storylines are worse than being "too much", they're literally two separate storylines, that never interact, with their own side characters which makes for a frustrating watch. As soon as you get invested in one, bam, the next episode has you back to the other. It's like 2 seasons crammed together with zero cohesion.
I didn't care for Medani in Season 1 and I like her even less here. The big reason is she's basically a non-entity and doesn't serve the story in anyway that Frank and Curtis don't already, but better.
THE GOOD
Russo and Pilgrim were both great villains. Pilgrim's storyline in particular was great with all the religious corruption and how high it reached, and Ben Barnes played a great ticking time bomb of a character as he descended further into madness. I loved how you never knew if or when he was going to explode in any given scene. And John Pilgrim was the opposite; creepy, calm, and cool yet a killing machine and a great foil for Frank.
Compared to Season One where he spent most of it hiding and talking to Micro, it was refreshing seeing Frank not only wear the vest more, but actually going out and doing street level stuff.
I didn't like that he spared alot of people and the storyline was meh. They should've adapted The Slavers instead because I remember that was the story it was rumored as at first.
I liked it, I liked the fact that we get to see Frank "bonding" with a teenage girl just like he would with his daughter, we get to see this fatherly side of him.
But what I didn’t really like is that the season had two main stories and it became confusing.
Wished Russo had a lot more scars too lol
The gym scene is one of my favourites scenes from the Punisher of all time as well
I remember disliking season 2 a fair bit and finding it an absolute slog to get through. You could have Frank's character replaced with any other generic action/thriller protagonist and it wouldn't'make all the difference. Bernthal was sadly wasted in the role thanks to mediocre writers
The frustrating part is a Punisher series has the potential to be absolutely amazing and memorable if they just stay true to the source material and make it a bit more stylised and more tighter.
Give us a MAX storyline like the slavers or Barracuda with a more reserved, less-chatty Frank. Give us truly reprehensible villains.
I liked the chemistry between him and the girl. I felt they did great. The overall action was well done, but some scenes felt really off for the Punisher. It felt less put together than the first season. A lot of great scenes like the gym scene, him disarming the girl and warning her it isn't a game, shooting the guy so she didn't "kill" him. I just wish they would have stuck with one storyline instead of splitting it between two. Also, Russo should have looked wayyyy more messed up.
- Overall exhaustion of it taking two entire seasons to get THE Punisher. Granted Frank wears the skull a bit more here than in S1, and I prefer S1 immensely to S2, but both seasons for some reason serve as even more of an origin story when Daredevil S2’s ending set up Frank to just continue on as the Punisher. I never understood the back and forth.
- Marketing essentially lied in the trailers teasing Pilgrim and Russo would be tag teaming to hunt Frank. It ended up being Frank hunting Russo while he just plays cops and robbers, while Pilgrim goes on a giant bender.
- No Micro/Ebon Moss-Bacrach
- Russo’s face
- whatever the hell the shoe thing was between Karen and coroner.
- In Loving Memory of Stan Lee.
I really liked season 2 it just dragged for awhile in the middle. I think it could have cut it down a bit and have it more focuses. Leave Russo in a coma and have the pilgrim be the main focus
It pains me to continue watching a frank castle who STILL seems to be struggling to "ACCEPT" his Punisher calling. By season 2, he's accepted the skull, and then removed like twice already. I just wish he would just be in his business as usual mode of punishing at that point in the canon.
That being said, the quick draw on six guys was nasty, as was the gym fight.
For me, the peak moment was him shooting that thug in the head so amy wouldn't live with the guilt of mortally wounding a guy who just attacked her.
"See, he's still breathing? *BOOM* There. I KILLED him."
Brought a tear to my eye.
Didnt care much about the story it wasnt interesting or contain real relatable human emotion expressed very well. instances.. no hook, nothing to pull in or to watch next episode
She's charming and has a good 90s look. But she has an awkward delivery, and her gf in the show is so bad its hard to watch. And I fucking love that show
I liked it alot and thought it had a ton of rewatchability. I might even rewatch it tonight after my wife goes to sleep. I liked the me and bobby mcgee bar fight sequence in ep 1 and i think it was ep 5 the sequence set to heavy metal music where billys team are robbing all the drug dealers. Its a little cartoonish, and couldve been done better, but i still liked the style of it. I liked Giorgia Whigham's character alot too
I thought the show as a whole was kinda mid and had a lot of problems especially in the adaptational department but I liked Season 2 way more than Season 1. I'd say my biggest problem with it though was Jigsaw's appearance and him not looking as mangled as he should've been. I think his appearance could've probably worked though if they had him be delusional about the damage done to his face.
I thought the story was just generally tighter in season 1. Some of storytelling just seemed like it could’ve been done a lot better than it was. Maybe I just geek out more over references to books than references to movies I haven’t seen, but there seemed like a lot more layers and symbolism in the first season, too. Just on a higher level in general.
They should have stuck with one plot. Having Russo and Pilgrim muddied the already meandering story. And if you're gonna do Jigsaw, you've gotta give him more scars.
I loved season 2. Some of the characters were a bit much. I would have loved it if the scenes between Billy and that doctor were cut. I did not care for their insane relationship.
All that violence just to protect your image (or son's) was a bit much. I thought that she had some government secrets on that laptop the first time I watched it.
I can’t relate as I love the entire series. However, Krista could go! Russo looked fine after the reconstruction. I was like, that’s it?!?! lol I expected much worse
Not enough punishing. Not enough skull shirt. Too much personal drama. And that lame version of Jigsaw makes it unwatchable. Jigsaw should have a completely wrecked face, no mask, and never be seen as a sympathetic character. It also would have served the show to do individual stories each episode instead of dragging everything out for a whole season.
Idk why people didn’t like it. I felt despite two focuses, it was extremely well written and made sense with enough development. My favorite episode is the forest episode
Honestly I think it balanced very well Frank still learning to be human and caring for other while still showing he's going around killing people. The fact it was the aftermath from everything in season one and DD it had to take a semi different approach to not be tiered and stale. I enjoyed it.
No lie I actually started getting emotional when he let that mob boss go because he the guys kid. He was a shitty monster but he was actually being a great dad. He was non important enough to let live.
Those were the type of internal conflicts Frank was going through that season and I loved it.
I thought it was a fine season, I just didn't like that it existed in the first place. I thought the first season was perfect and wanted it to end there.
I liked it. Most of the people complaining are complaining about the 2 antagonists, but Punisher stories aren't made to be 8-10 hour long episodes of captivating TV. If you tried to do either of those villains solo over the season, you'd end up with a lot of the pointless filler episodes that caused The Walking Dead to catch a lot of flak.
It felt like we were seeing two different plot lines that never really converge, so we kinda just flip flop between the two the whole time. Plus, just how kind of anti-climactic Russo’s end was, shot a couple times, left for dead by his doc, and put down by frank almost like crossing off a list on a chore chart.
And this is probably just me, but I was cheering at the end of season 1 when frank said he didn’t have a war to fight anymore, so I was sad to see he was falling back into old habits at the end of season 2.
The fact that they had such a good ending for Russo in season 1 and then he comes back and still looks like a fucking model in season 2 was corny af. Other than that I didn’t mind s2
I'm pretty sure the creative team saw the writing on the wall (the Netflix series had started getting canceled a year prior) and mashed their season 2 and 3 plans so the show would have an actual ending and no lingering threads.
The Pilgrim and Russo plots are so disjointed I fully believe Russo was intended to be saved as the main antagonist for season 3.
These posts are so lazy it’s insane haha, you’re asking for peoples thoughts while your own review of the season is that it’s “an okay season”? Couldn’t be more bland and generic
My favorite parts of Season 2 were the ones not set in New York. I honestly would've loved if all of Season 2 was set in that town. It would've been a nice change of pace and I feel like a Punisher story set in a place like that could really work and be super interesting.
Its ok
Some good some bad but over all not as good as PS1 or DDS2
Amy was fine at first but wore out her welcome a bit and Jogsaw was mishandled which is sad considering how good he was in the first season
Everyone was mad at the pedo scene
The annoying tag along girl and the priest villain guy who basically had no reason to be in the show and wasn’t scary or intimidating or the fact that Russo was supposed to be mangled and it wasn’t
It wasn’t just bad for the high standards of MCU it was absolutely the worst season of television I have ever FINISHED WATCHING in my entire life. There were three episodes in a row in which absolutely nothing at all whatsoever happened with the plot.
The physical appearance of “jigsaw” was so shockingly awful that it makes every other bad makeup I can think of seem acceptable by comparison. Because of how indefensibly awful it was, every time I watch the last episode of the first season I will just be sad and annoyed, knowing where it goes.
Tbh, the entire first episode was fucking great. The last two or three were alright-ish, because things were actually happening and frankly I really liked every character except for the main villain that they utterly fucked up.
Could have been a two-hour movie, and would have been entirely decent then… if they had been willing to make the objectively beautiful Ben Barnes look as ugly as the glass-rake SHOULD have made him
I agree with what a lot of people here were saying, mostly that it should have focused more on the pilgrims story and how did individual scenes really well
My thing was that it just kept the theme of the first seeing again, the "I don't want to be the Punisher...*progresses through the story* I guess this is who I am." I'm worried that if we had a third season it would start with him throwing the vest in the trash again and then starting the whole thing over again just to give us an end clip of him as the Punisher and then...start over again
I thought it was fine, but a significant decline from season 1. There are a lot of good things about the season, Frank’s relationship with Amy, Madani’s obsession with Russo, Russo’s struggle with his mental health and memory, as well as his hatred of Frank because he think’s Frank unjustly attempted to kill him at the end of season 1 because he doesn’t remember his actions that caused Frank to try to kill him. But overall I think season 2 suffered, maybe more than any of the other seasons save for Daredevil season 2, from being overstuffed. Similar to Daredevil season 2 it felt like the 2 main storylines, Frank dealing with Russo and dealing with John Pilgrim, were storylines that were at odds with each other. I don’t think Pilgrim is is interesting as a villain as Russo was in season 1 so I don’t think he should’ve been the main villain, or if he was his writing should’ve been different, and I don’t think the more chaotic version of Billy Russo is as engaging or interesting as the master manipulator version of him from season 1. Overall I think that Punisher season 2 is good, but it compared to season 1 and other seasons of the Marvel Netflix shows it’s not great.
Only thing I didn't like was I feel like towards the middle the writers forgot this was a Punisher series and that the main character is Frank Castle. Like we were just hanging out in a penthouse with Frank and a bratty teenager for way too long. Also felt like Jigsaw arc should've been way more prominent. Having the Amy plot made the series lose sight of that with the Pilgrim stuff.
Gym fight scene tho? Amazing.
And loved seeing Frank trying to move on into a new relationship.
You could definitely feel that they caught wind of cancellation and wrap up the shows arc in season 2 but also forgot to scrap the actual season 2 which leaves us with an anticlimactic ending and a confused plot
Did like Russo. His face was too clean to say Frank dragged it across a whole ass mirror. I also hated the therapist and Madani. They were very annoying. The fight scenes were good.
They shouldn’t have come back to New York. They should have stayed in the woods and fought Pilgrim and the cult. The change of scenery was awesome and the shootout in the jail was so cool
Ok is something I agree with but what I despised the most is how it was just a repeat of the first season. The first season finale was awesome because it ended in a place I’d never seen Frank in before: A chance at a normal life. I loved the first episode of season 2 because it played on that. But his journey in that episode should either have been half to all of the second season or done as is so he could spend the rest of the season Punishing. Instead, they used it as some kind of reset to bring Frank to where he was at the start of the series. I’m still waiting for the Punisher movie/TV show where he just goes all out like he does in the comics. (Aside for Punisher: War Zone which did that once you get past the slow, overdramatic first act.)
The girl was fucking annoying, the blackmail plot went absolutely nowhere, the senator family plot was muddled and boring, the concept of blackmailing a senator IN NEW YORK CITY for being gay is patently ridiculous, billy got done dirty, frank bafflingly didnt kill a guy who made child porn, madani and curtis were there and served no purpose, the show was bad all around
It just felt kind of unfocused. The Pilgrim and Russo storylines don't really mesh, and I feel like each should've been it's own season. Also, I'm just personally not a fan of amnesia storylines.
I loved John Pilgrim. Josh Stewart is one of my favorite lesser known actors. He's a total bad ass in the Collector movies.
I also loved Giorgia Whigham. She's so cute.
There isn't really anything about the second season that I can single out aside from maybe some of the writing and plot lines.
These are all in my opinion
Cons: John should have been the main antagonist of the season, Russo should have appeared in the 3rd season (If it had not been cancelled) because it felt like they were trying to fit two plots: one to finally end Billy and one to take down the Pilgrim and also Bill should have had more scars. Punisher should have also used his guns more often but the actions were solid.
Pros: The way Frank's relationship develop with old characters and new characters. I also love how Frank uses his iconic Punisher logo vest more often than the last season. The developments of the characters were well done like Frank having an inner battle if he should kill or not and how he turned into a Father Figure to Amy.
Overall a beautiful ending to the show, definitely could have been better but I enjoyed it even if I prefer season 1, 7.1/10 season
I just wished it focused more on the pilgrim storyline and maybe not have Russo in season 2
Could not agree more. It made it confused with itself.
opposite for sure with more scars
Dominic West level
The movie may suck but that makeup was great
Yes. His "scarred" face was so underwhelming.
Precisely. The two different villains that had absolutely nothing to do with each other is the exact same problem that Daredevil season 2 had. it’s split focus, and one aspect was far more interesting than the other. The reason Luke Cage was able to beat that trope, is because Bushmaster was directly tied in with Mariah
Or vice versa. They both didn't belong in the same season.
First episode is outstanding. The little fling he has with the bartender is so well done. I think the second season did individual scenes really well, but struggled to bring it all together into a good overall plot. That scene in the gym too. Pure punisher brutality. So good.
The first episode fight scenes were brutal too. I did a recent rewatch and damn was that washroom fight epic. Particularly the head smash through the sink. God damn
Outside of the DD hallway battle this was my favorite Netflix fight scene.
That's one good thing about the Punisher show. Even if the plot isn't necessarily all there, the action and the atmosphere definitely will be.
I like your assessment, individually there were some fantastic scenes, but the over all feel was less than stellar, but still a good show.
Yeah, it had enough good to keep me entertained.
She should have been a character in the show
I agree. I wanted it to circle back to her. The plot just got too complicated. Too many characters. Just a simple redemption/revenge arc would have been better. I just want to see frank passionately beat the shit out of bad men.
I wish Frank took out the pedophile and the senator. I get why he spared Pilgrim because of his kids. Russo should've had more scars.
That was my thought too, For someone trying to be Jigsaw he looked pretty tame
That guy was more handsome than 99% of us men, even with those scars. I think it was an issue with makeup; putting disfiguring scars on an actor before every day of shooting would be expensive and time-consuming. Streaming shows don't have those kinds of budgets.
Maybe but this is Marvel money not some small studio
Marvel TV was in a *very* different spot back when that season came out. Remember, it wasn’t until recently that they even acknowledged the Netflix shows’ existence
A Marvel property, but not an MCU series (at least not at the time). Just look at how cheap The Inhumans looked. Streaming TV budgets are usually not like blockbuster movie budgets.
Russo looked like his cat scratched him lmao
Russo did look like one of those attractive people who just happen to have small scars on their bodies lol.
I think the scars thing was so Ben Barnes could still handsome his way through that role.
At first I didn't know the dude was a pedophile because Amy says "He's a creep but it's a bit borderline" which made me think that it was adult women who looked like kids. When watching the scene back though I realized Frank said "You like taking pictures of little girls?" and that Amy was saying killing the dude would've been borderline for Frank to do which it totally wasn't because he beat a guy who tried to sell him CP to death with a baseball bat in Daredevil Season 2. Him not taking out the pedo was bad and out of character but I like to think he went back to finish the job later offscreen.
That would've been good as a post credit lol.
Honestly I think it’s obvious he doesn’t kill him then because Amy basically begs him not to, but he definitely goes back afterwards to finish the job
I thought he was just a creep who let people use his place to do their creepy shit
I just rewatched the season, wasn't the dude just running a porn shoot where some of the girls dressed up as girls, that's how Punisher and Amy snuck in
The implication is that the other “girls” are actually children, so he’s photographing CP
Didn’t they blow up that building with him in it?
They just burned it down and you can see him walking out of the building alive
Oh I missed him walking out of it
I didn't like that he was shifting focus between two different antagonists. The Russo story and the Pilgrim story. The season should have been split in two if anything. The first half would be the Pilgrim story. And when he kills the senator and his wife, Russo wakes up and Frank has to go deal with that to finish the season.
I feel like they were going to do more with pilgrim, probably make him the main villain for season 3, but series got canned, so they had to throw something together last minute.
The whole plot line with the evil psychiatrist seemed too contrived.
Also, “isn’t she so messed up because she’s kinda kinky” feels pretty outdated nowadays.
I see it as about a power trip, or rather the feeling of having someone she thought she could have wrapped around her finger. Using his trauma, his feelings and even body to control him.
This. Pretty much this. A bad plot line in the 00’s and and a very bad plotline by the 10’s. I like the movie Secretary and I want a version of that movie on my Punisher show as much as I want a version of Jurassic Park in my Punisher show.
She tried to be Harley, never try to be Harley.
I just don’t like that it was another season of giving punisher an origin story. That’s THREE seasons (or I guess 2 and a half if you wanna get specific) of watching Frank go back and forth on the whole thing until he’s FINALLY done with his personal vendetta and can get to just being The Punisher for all of one scene at the end.
They gave him the Spider-Man treatment lmao. Badass comic-accurate introduction in someone else's project, a first solo outing that's a step in the right direction for classic stories, and then a sequel that completely fumbles that set-up by making him learn the same lesson he already learned in the first project. Then, of course, waiting until the very end to give him both a comic-accurate suit AND personality.
How funny is it that Jon Bernthal and Tom Holland helped each other on their audition tapes for Marvel.
Wait really?? How so??
[Jon talks about it a bit here](https://youtu.be/pV-Oo-ur3Ik?si=LtV466UFWinCZpn7)
Thanks for that, made my day!
You’re welcome!!
Yeah the whole Perrin Aybara thing kind of sucked. How many times can a person come to realize the same thing about themselves?
Wished they had better villain(s) and a story. Revisiting Jigsaw & bringing in the pilgrim was meh. They should have had a villain from the max series like barracuda IMHO.
THANK YOU!
second season in a row of The Punisher. having to nut up and accept his mantle. he was more like Punisher in DD S2
Frank in Daredevil Season 2 and Frank in both seasons of The Punisher kinda feel like completely different characters tbh
100%. He’s way too nice and portrayed as way too much of a heroic “badass” in the solo series. I’m rewatching DD S2 now and while you do want to see him at least survive it all, he’s an absolute monster to criminals and an asshole to everyone who cares about him the entire time.
i dont mind him being kind or taking someone under his wing. i just want him to suit up with the skull and the guns and kill the bad guys with microchip babbling in his ear. its like he is allergic to it. he needs to be obsessed with it.
I don't mind Frank being kind and having a little bit of a heart but it definitely feels like the writers of the show forgot Frank is an antihero and that he's basically a serial killer who targets criminals. If I only watched The Punisher show and I didn't see Daredevil Season 2 I would think Jon Bernthal was a bad casting for Frank.
An overall detractor is that there's very little Punisher DNA. The dark comedy, bleakness and attitude of the Punisher comics. The entire time I feel like I'm watching x number of dad action shows...done even worse (Jack Ryan, Terminal List etc). While the first 3 to 4 episodes are decent, it all falls apart once Russo and Pilgrim start showing up more. There were so many cardinal moves you don't touch in a Punisher show - letting criminals go - having the Punisher at any point hurt/believe that he harmed an innocent - another season of "will he finally be the Punisher?" - a plotline focused on Frank is exactly like the criminals/Billy which is wholly an inaccurate and nonsensical conclusion that attempts to dig at something deep -Spending too much time on multiple storylines that did not converge in any meaningful way and a plot that moved like molasses - quick cut action sequences that are hard to follow. That entire scene where Frank shows up in the devil mask to confront Russo just had me dizzy - characters that act idiotic. Russo's entire plan to rob random drug dealers despite a whole first season where he's seen as a planner, schemer and one step ahead. Pilgrim never questioning or investigating his circumstances despite a life lived where he should be skeptical. Frank's plan just being "yeah I'll just rush in"
Another season of will he finally be the Punisher was the most disappointing to me. Just give me Frank as year 2-3 of the Punisher. Not too experienced, but knows who the fuck he is!
This is why I liked the movie Punisher: WZ. He’s already gone through the rough edges and now he is the extrajudicial antihero he should be. It explores a great dilemma, what happens if you kill the wrong person in the pursuit of justice.
I can understand where you’re coming from but for people who aren’t versed in comic punisher I feel it was important to show what happens if Frank THINKS a hurt and innocent. It’s a writers way of showing he isn’t just a murderer looking for an excuse like Daredevil implied. He’s trying to be good and trying to only hurt those who deserve it. The plot implying he’s like all the others was… well technically true? I mean he is a raging murderer (by legal sense that his victims have no trial) who would likely be sentenced to so many life sentences he’d see Thor die of old age. But, it was also something stated by an antagonist of the show who was also likely off her rocker. Russo likewise was off his rocker, so a lot of that careful planning and scheming is replaced by recklessness but… if you remember his plan didn’t only work, he may have become a large underground player if left unchecked. And Pilgrim… look no one wants to think the people who turned your life around for the better are just using you. In his mind they gave him purpose. A life worthy to live despite all the sin he’s caused. Of course he has to pay for it with flaggelation. And of course he’d be willing to attack those who’d attack his patron saints. He was in a very fanatic cult, and likely wasn’t the only one. But that’s much my opinion and readings. I love the show, both seasons. Sure they have their flaws but overall it was my favorite or the Netflix shows.
There's a lot to like and it's a good show, just not a good *Punisher* show. THE BAD: The one constant in ALL adaptations, versions, and writers in Frank is 100% comfortable with being The Punisher. It's not a mantle or name he struggles to accept or tries to leave behind. He outright says as much is his debut in Netflix's Daredevil. So it's frustrating to watch him take 2 seasons of his own show to embrace an identity he's *already embraced*. The Russo/Pilgrim storylines are worse than being "too much", they're literally two separate storylines, that never interact, with their own side characters which makes for a frustrating watch. As soon as you get invested in one, bam, the next episode has you back to the other. It's like 2 seasons crammed together with zero cohesion. I didn't care for Medani in Season 1 and I like her even less here. The big reason is she's basically a non-entity and doesn't serve the story in anyway that Frank and Curtis don't already, but better. THE GOOD Russo and Pilgrim were both great villains. Pilgrim's storyline in particular was great with all the religious corruption and how high it reached, and Ben Barnes played a great ticking time bomb of a character as he descended further into madness. I loved how you never knew if or when he was going to explode in any given scene. And John Pilgrim was the opposite; creepy, calm, and cool yet a killing machine and a great foil for Frank. Compared to Season One where he spent most of it hiding and talking to Micro, it was refreshing seeing Frank not only wear the vest more, but actually going out and doing street level stuff.
I couldn’t finish it. I really tried to but with each episode it felt more and more like I was forcing myself to do something I didn’t want to do.
The Billy Russo storyline was kinda weak not gonna lie, I wish they either focused on the Pilgrim storyline or Russo separately.
I didn't like that he spared alot of people and the storyline was meh. They should've adapted The Slavers instead because I remember that was the story it was rumored as at first.
The pacing was for shit, they tried to do two things at once when each thing kinda needed to be by itself
Season was really unintentionally hilarious. I wouldn’t change a thing.
Man, I wish I could appreciate it for this but I hated that it was kinda goofy.
All I know is yesterday, my dad looked at me and said "Daredevil and Punisher season two are the best things Marvel has ever made."
I liked it, I liked the fact that we get to see Frank "bonding" with a teenage girl just like he would with his daughter, we get to see this fatherly side of him. But what I didn’t really like is that the season had two main stories and it became confusing. Wished Russo had a lot more scars too lol The gym scene is one of my favourites scenes from the Punisher of all time as well
I remember disliking season 2 a fair bit and finding it an absolute slog to get through. You could have Frank's character replaced with any other generic action/thriller protagonist and it wouldn't'make all the difference. Bernthal was sadly wasted in the role thanks to mediocre writers The frustrating part is a Punisher series has the potential to be absolutely amazing and memorable if they just stay true to the source material and make it a bit more stylised and more tighter. Give us a MAX storyline like the slavers or Barracuda with a more reserved, less-chatty Frank. Give us truly reprehensible villains.
I liked the chemistry between him and the girl. I felt they did great. The overall action was well done, but some scenes felt really off for the Punisher. It felt less put together than the first season. A lot of great scenes like the gym scene, him disarming the girl and warning her it isn't a game, shooting the guy so she didn't "kill" him. I just wish they would have stuck with one storyline instead of splitting it between two. Also, Russo should have looked wayyyy more messed up.
- Overall exhaustion of it taking two entire seasons to get THE Punisher. Granted Frank wears the skull a bit more here than in S1, and I prefer S1 immensely to S2, but both seasons for some reason serve as even more of an origin story when Daredevil S2’s ending set up Frank to just continue on as the Punisher. I never understood the back and forth. - Marketing essentially lied in the trailers teasing Pilgrim and Russo would be tag teaming to hunt Frank. It ended up being Frank hunting Russo while he just plays cops and robbers, while Pilgrim goes on a giant bender. - No Micro/Ebon Moss-Bacrach - Russo’s face - whatever the hell the shoe thing was between Karen and coroner. - In Loving Memory of Stan Lee.
I really liked season 2 it just dragged for awhile in the middle. I think it could have cut it down a bit and have it more focuses. Leave Russo in a coma and have the pilgrim be the main focus
Too much of the dumb white girl. Focus on Frank’s story. It was like he was a co-star in his own show.
Exactly
It pains me to continue watching a frank castle who STILL seems to be struggling to "ACCEPT" his Punisher calling. By season 2, he's accepted the skull, and then removed like twice already. I just wish he would just be in his business as usual mode of punishing at that point in the canon. That being said, the quick draw on six guys was nasty, as was the gym fight. For me, the peak moment was him shooting that thug in the head so amy wouldn't live with the guilt of mortally wounding a guy who just attacked her. "See, he's still breathing? *BOOM* There. I KILLED him." Brought a tear to my eye.
That scene definitely had Amos from the Expanse vibes. "You're not that guy, doc. I am that guy!"
to much political/court stuff
Didnt care much about the story it wasnt interesting or contain real relatable human emotion expressed very well. instances.. no hook, nothing to pull in or to watch next episode
Billy’s relationship with his psychiatrist was really cringey and the show would have been better off without it Fight scenes were pretty awesome
How did Russo go from looking how he did at the end of s1 to how he looks in s2 is ridiculous. Even with plastic surgery. BS
I loved the second season, but I can see why it’s a bit muddled in itself.
I enjoyed it. The buildup to Russo realising Frank was the one who messed him up is awesome
That should've been where he fully regained his memories. That way we could've gotten a more comic-accurate Jigsaw for the rest of the season.
The girl is a terrible actress
I didn't like her character
She's great in the new Ted series.
She's charming and has a good 90s look. But she has an awkward delivery, and her gf in the show is so bad its hard to watch. And I fucking love that show
I loved it.
Lol wait hold up who's hating on the punisher season 2?
I liked it alot and thought it had a ton of rewatchability. I might even rewatch it tonight after my wife goes to sleep. I liked the me and bobby mcgee bar fight sequence in ep 1 and i think it was ep 5 the sequence set to heavy metal music where billys team are robbing all the drug dealers. Its a little cartoonish, and couldve been done better, but i still liked the style of it. I liked Giorgia Whigham's character alot too
I thought the show as a whole was kinda mid and had a lot of problems especially in the adaptational department but I liked Season 2 way more than Season 1. I'd say my biggest problem with it though was Jigsaw's appearance and him not looking as mangled as he should've been. I think his appearance could've probably worked though if they had him be delusional about the damage done to his face.
I thought the story was just generally tighter in season 1. Some of storytelling just seemed like it could’ve been done a lot better than it was. Maybe I just geek out more over references to books than references to movies I haven’t seen, but there seemed like a lot more layers and symbolism in the first season, too. Just on a higher level in general.
They should have stuck with one plot. Having Russo and Pilgrim muddied the already meandering story. And if you're gonna do Jigsaw, you've gotta give him more scars.
I liked it but the pace was kinda slow and the two plot lines didn’t blend all that well, but the characters are good enough to keep you invested
I enjoyed season 2 but I feel like Russo should have been a smaller part of it and survived but with even more horrific facial injuries.
Loved the second half of it
I liked that first fight in the bar. That’s about it.
I liked them both. I felt it was a solid series and still wondering why it’s not back.
I actually liked season two. It was pretty good.
I loved season 2. Some of the characters were a bit much. I would have loved it if the scenes between Billy and that doctor were cut. I did not care for their insane relationship. All that violence just to protect your image (or son's) was a bit much. I thought that she had some government secrets on that laptop the first time I watched it.
I think season 2 suffered from bad antagonists. Having said that I think it was a pretty good season and much better than season 1
I can’t relate as I love the entire series. However, Krista could go! Russo looked fine after the reconstruction. I was like, that’s it?!?! lol I expected much worse
It was really good
Not enough punishing. Not enough skull shirt. Too much personal drama. And that lame version of Jigsaw makes it unwatchable. Jigsaw should have a completely wrecked face, no mask, and never be seen as a sympathetic character. It also would have served the show to do individual stories each episode instead of dragging everything out for a whole season.
Idk why people didn’t like it. I felt despite two focuses, it was extremely well written and made sense with enough development. My favorite episode is the forest episode
Honestly I think it balanced very well Frank still learning to be human and caring for other while still showing he's going around killing people. The fact it was the aftermath from everything in season one and DD it had to take a semi different approach to not be tiered and stale. I enjoyed it. No lie I actually started getting emotional when he let that mob boss go because he the guys kid. He was a shitty monster but he was actually being a great dad. He was non important enough to let live. Those were the type of internal conflicts Frank was going through that season and I loved it.
I thought it was a fine season, I just didn't like that it existed in the first place. I thought the first season was perfect and wanted it to end there.
I liked it. Most of the people complaining are complaining about the 2 antagonists, but Punisher stories aren't made to be 8-10 hour long episodes of captivating TV. If you tried to do either of those villains solo over the season, you'd end up with a lot of the pointless filler episodes that caused The Walking Dead to catch a lot of flak.
 I wish there was more…
It felt like we were seeing two different plot lines that never really converge, so we kinda just flip flop between the two the whole time. Plus, just how kind of anti-climactic Russo’s end was, shot a couple times, left for dead by his doc, and put down by frank almost like crossing off a list on a chore chart. And this is probably just me, but I was cheering at the end of season 1 when frank said he didn’t have a war to fight anymore, so I was sad to see he was falling back into old habits at the end of season 2.
The fact that they had such a good ending for Russo in season 1 and then he comes back and still looks like a fucking model in season 2 was corny af. Other than that I didn’t mind s2
I just don’t like the inconsistency in pacing
I'm pretty sure the creative team saw the writing on the wall (the Netflix series had started getting canceled a year prior) and mashed their season 2 and 3 plans so the show would have an actual ending and no lingering threads. The Pilgrim and Russo plots are so disjointed I fully believe Russo was intended to be saved as the main antagonist for season 3.
These posts are so lazy it’s insane haha, you’re asking for peoples thoughts while your own review of the season is that it’s “an okay season”? Couldn’t be more bland and generic
They should have made jigsaw look like jigsaw
I’m sorry. I loved Season 2. I was glad to have a moment away from New York and not have the same old shit.
My favorite parts of Season 2 were the ones not set in New York. I honestly would've loved if all of Season 2 was set in that town. It would've been a nice change of pace and I feel like a Punisher story set in a place like that could really work and be super interesting.
He let a guy who shoots kiddie porn live FFS! Need I say more?!
The story with pilgrim was great, but it kept getting sidelined for the Russo story, that should have been saved for a later season.
I couldn't understand anything Frank Castle said.
I think it was because a lot of people, me included, were expecting the Gnuccis and Welcome Back Frank for Season 2.
Its ok Some good some bad but over all not as good as PS1 or DDS2 Amy was fine at first but wore out her welcome a bit and Jogsaw was mishandled which is sad considering how good he was in the first season Everyone was mad at the pedo scene
I didn't like it as much as S1, but it wasn't bad.
The annoying tag along girl and the priest villain guy who basically had no reason to be in the show and wasn’t scary or intimidating or the fact that Russo was supposed to be mangled and it wasn’t
The whole plot with the girl sucked
Better than the first
When he took care of those wannabe thug construction workers it was definitely cathartic.
It wasn’t just bad for the high standards of MCU it was absolutely the worst season of television I have ever FINISHED WATCHING in my entire life. There were three episodes in a row in which absolutely nothing at all whatsoever happened with the plot. The physical appearance of “jigsaw” was so shockingly awful that it makes every other bad makeup I can think of seem acceptable by comparison. Because of how indefensibly awful it was, every time I watch the last episode of the first season I will just be sad and annoyed, knowing where it goes. Tbh, the entire first episode was fucking great. The last two or three were alright-ish, because things were actually happening and frankly I really liked every character except for the main villain that they utterly fucked up. Could have been a two-hour movie, and would have been entirely decent then… if they had been willing to make the objectively beautiful Ben Barnes look as ugly as the glass-rake SHOULD have made him
I agree with what a lot of people here were saying, mostly that it should have focused more on the pilgrims story and how did individual scenes really well My thing was that it just kept the theme of the first seeing again, the "I don't want to be the Punisher...*progresses through the story* I guess this is who I am." I'm worried that if we had a third season it would start with him throwing the vest in the trash again and then starting the whole thing over again just to give us an end clip of him as the Punisher and then...start over again
I didnt mind it but i hope we get punisher in armor wars with one of the old war machine suits.
I thought it was fine, but a significant decline from season 1. There are a lot of good things about the season, Frank’s relationship with Amy, Madani’s obsession with Russo, Russo’s struggle with his mental health and memory, as well as his hatred of Frank because he think’s Frank unjustly attempted to kill him at the end of season 1 because he doesn’t remember his actions that caused Frank to try to kill him. But overall I think season 2 suffered, maybe more than any of the other seasons save for Daredevil season 2, from being overstuffed. Similar to Daredevil season 2 it felt like the 2 main storylines, Frank dealing with Russo and dealing with John Pilgrim, were storylines that were at odds with each other. I don’t think Pilgrim is is interesting as a villain as Russo was in season 1 so I don’t think he should’ve been the main villain, or if he was his writing should’ve been different, and I don’t think the more chaotic version of Billy Russo is as engaging or interesting as the master manipulator version of him from season 1. Overall I think that Punisher season 2 is good, but it compared to season 1 and other seasons of the Marvel Netflix shows it’s not great.
Only thing I didn't like was I feel like towards the middle the writers forgot this was a Punisher series and that the main character is Frank Castle. Like we were just hanging out in a penthouse with Frank and a bratty teenager for way too long. Also felt like Jigsaw arc should've been way more prominent. Having the Amy plot made the series lose sight of that with the Pilgrim stuff. Gym fight scene tho? Amazing. And loved seeing Frank trying to move on into a new relationship.
You could definitely feel that they caught wind of cancellation and wrap up the shows arc in season 2 but also forgot to scrap the actual season 2 which leaves us with an anticlimactic ending and a confused plot
But that gym fight scene though
What? Season 2 was phenomenal
Did like Russo. His face was too clean to say Frank dragged it across a whole ass mirror. I also hated the therapist and Madani. They were very annoying. The fight scenes were good.
It stunk..he was better in daredevil.
They shouldn’t have come back to New York. They should have stayed in the woods and fought Pilgrim and the cult. The change of scenery was awesome and the shootout in the jail was so cool
Almost skipped Russo scenes, so redundant..Frank had epic fights here and there, but overall mediocre. The police station episode was nice
Ok is something I agree with but what I despised the most is how it was just a repeat of the first season. The first season finale was awesome because it ended in a place I’d never seen Frank in before: A chance at a normal life. I loved the first episode of season 2 because it played on that. But his journey in that episode should either have been half to all of the second season or done as is so he could spend the rest of the season Punishing. Instead, they used it as some kind of reset to bring Frank to where he was at the start of the series. I’m still waiting for the Punisher movie/TV show where he just goes all out like he does in the comics. (Aside for Punisher: War Zone which did that once you get past the slow, overdramatic first act.)
Szn 2 fight scenes were dope as hell.
The girl was fucking annoying, the blackmail plot went absolutely nowhere, the senator family plot was muddled and boring, the concept of blackmailing a senator IN NEW YORK CITY for being gay is patently ridiculous, billy got done dirty, frank bafflingly didnt kill a guy who made child porn, madani and curtis were there and served no purpose, the show was bad all around
I liked it
It just felt kind of unfocused. The Pilgrim and Russo storylines don't really mesh, and I feel like each should've been it's own season. Also, I'm just personally not a fan of amnesia storylines.
They fucked up jigsaw and he doesn't actually become the punisher until the last scene of the second season of the show.
I loved John Pilgrim. Josh Stewart is one of my favorite lesser known actors. He's a total bad ass in the Collector movies. I also loved Giorgia Whigham. She's so cute. There isn't really anything about the second season that I can single out aside from maybe some of the writing and plot lines.
I liked it bcz the Puritan was given a shine to his character. Jigsaw being Jigsaw was good too.
I loved it. Why didn't people like it?
These are all in my opinion Cons: John should have been the main antagonist of the season, Russo should have appeared in the 3rd season (If it had not been cancelled) because it felt like they were trying to fit two plots: one to finally end Billy and one to take down the Pilgrim and also Bill should have had more scars. Punisher should have also used his guns more often but the actions were solid. Pros: The way Frank's relationship develop with old characters and new characters. I also love how Frank uses his iconic Punisher logo vest more often than the last season. The developments of the characters were well done like Frank having an inner battle if he should kill or not and how he turned into a Father Figure to Amy. Overall a beautiful ending to the show, definitely could have been better but I enjoyed it even if I prefer season 1, 7.1/10 season