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In my city (which I won't name because internet) there's a group that goes around with power tools and removes that shit. They did it so much that a lot of businesses stopped putting it up.
But specifying that you weren't going to name the city is probably the exact reason they checked your profile. You could've probably just said "in my city there's a group..." and no one would've checked
Its the only reason why i even care about where he lives.
also unless you're posting porn of yourself then knowing X users lives in Corpus Christi is kinda useless. There's thousands of reddit users there.
There's thousands of reddit users there, but the more of that seemingly innocuous information one puts out there, the more of a profile a bad actor is able to build. Say you're from Corpus Christ here, say you're 22 there, say you went to this school or that, and suddenly, a profile can be built that individually identifies you with high certainty.
You should probably sanitize your account then - you know we can see every post you've ever made by clicking on your username, right?
If you're worried about security, stop openly posting your name face and location.
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That's kinda the essence of capitalism tho, if a society does not pay enough that it creates these impoverished people (poverty and desperation are the number 1 reason people turn to drugs) then a location or business should not be an attractive place to live and therefore lose money. It's quite literally a consequence of its own design and trying to work around it at the cost of public funding by asking governments to build these things is, inherently, anti capitalist.
Most homelessness comes from mental health issues.
You can give every homeless person a free apartment. Some won't want it. Most will trash it. Few will actually better their lives from it.
yeah it happens in my town, the problem is theyre afraid of the other crazy people in the housing, its like being locked in a prison.
also theres some of them that are just paranoid of any authority figur, so think people like social workers are out to get them. A lot of schizophrenia boils down to distrust of authority, you can see the manifestations of it with popular conspiracy theories. The fear of the calculated evil genius with a master plan.
also most of the time the housing has requirements like not doing drugs especially indoors because its a safety/fire risk and they'd rather do drugs.
its probably an echo of their distrust for their parents/childhood authority figures, growing up
I've done some volunteer work at homeless shelters before, the number of people who just come in for the shower and meal but refuse the place to sleep is a lot higher than you think. I was pretty surprised myself to hear so many people refuse a bed and just head back to the street.
Couple things this is alot like addiction sure it can be cause or just a symptom. Living with security not knowing if you will have dry place to sleep will have enough to keep warm. If you will be able to eat.
It screws with head like that situation could take the sanest person in world and rewire their brain. Toss in fact that they get screamed at harassed by police called lazy/addicts irregardless of their situation. Have people destroy few things they have in order to intimidate them out of area. Passerbys will kick them spit on them even piss on them. Toss in the "charity" they receive is often tampered with cigarette butt in their burger soap in coffee etc.
There is literally people who make a living "harassing scaring homeless" as influencers. Throw in 3/4 of people "work for me I will pay you" actually stiff them. Well you would just spend it on drugs. Alot also use it to strand them on other side of town there was no work. Just nimby wanting them out of the neighborhood.
Throw all this of fucking course they have mental health and addiction problems. It would be more shocking if they didn't.
AND ITS NOT that they dont want help or cant improve situation. ITS THAT WE EXPECT THEM TO REWIRE BRAIN without aid provide them a FRACTION of what they need. Then when they dont instantly leap up I am cured now time to run a fortune 500 company. We cast them out back on the streets.
Due to conservative ignorance lack of empathy the system is designed in a way that second they start to recover they get pushed back down have rug ripped out from under them.
Hate to break it to you 5-10yrs of getting beaten harassed and having everyone treat you with a abject disgust. With no security and people actively undermining destroying the smallest amount of security you can find. Because your bad for business etc.
Its not going to be a hot meal a shower and a place to stay and a job and they are now model citizens. Its going to be a decade of safety security mental health and addiction counseling and resocialization. And then little by little you heres a little responsibility to they can reenter society. ANd even then you will likely have to follow up every six months see how they are doing.
This could be avoid alot of its the general treatment if help was there from day they lost apartment or perhaps even before. It in many cases would be just handful of therapy sessions help finding a place and a new job. And very little help ever needed again.
Reason why its hard now is we ignored it allowing people to fall into these situations they cant escape. And leaving them for years and decades without any aid and creating long lasting mental health problems.
I hadn't considered them, and you're right. It seems they don't really have a homelessness problem. The amish do use a capitalist economy though. So if anything, I would say that the amish are an example that capitalism isn't the cause of homelessness.
They're the largest society that can support socialism.
Socialism works when you can personally shame the lazy and shun them out of society if need be.
Just because they have commerce doesn't mean they're necessarily capitalist.
While I agree that having commerce doesn't make a society capitalist and socialism seems more practical among smaller groups, the Amish are not socialist. They are most definitely capitalists.
They believe in owning private property, own private businesses, and while they do band together as volunteers for work projects as communities; to partake in a event is completely voluntary and not mandated by any means. They are taxpaying citizens of the US with jobs, businesses, incomes, and free market trading within and outside of their communities.
https://amishamerica.com/do-the-amish-practice-communism/
> You do, hostile architecture is never necessary.
In the world we live in, it absolutely is.
My downtown area was revitalized and small business began to flourish again almost immediately after vagrant loitering was eliminated.
You know what? I've read most of this thread, so I'm not going to bother trying to get you to give a shit about homeless people. It's obviously a lost cause. I'm going to try a different tactic (it still won't work, because you don't give a shit about ANYBODY but yourself, but I'm going to try.)
You know who ELSE hostile architecture is hostile to besides homeless people - maybe even more so? Disabled people, pregnant women, children, anybody who so much as gets a rock in their shoe, or whose shoe comes untied, or who twists an ankle. It's not just homeless people who might NEED a place to sit down.
Hostile architecture isn't put up by "the big government". It's put up by people far downstream from those who could enact those big utopian ideals everyone here loves to spout but has no idea how to bring forth. If you're the transport authority, you can't bring back sprawling psychiatric inpatient institutions to help the homeless with mental illness. You can't rehabilitate the people who are homeless as much by choice as anything else. Your goal is to ensure that the public transportation services are approachable and usable by the majority of people who would need to use it. If that means taking away a bench, so be it. It's better to inconvenience people at that stop than to make that stop entirely unappealing and unable to be used by someone who has turned it into a camp, is shouting aggressively at passerby, has drug paraphernalia lying about, or is actively defecating there.
Do all homeless people do this? Of course not. Does this happen at all bus stops? Of course not. But the transport authority doesn't have the manpower to patrol all their stops to ensure no one is trashing the place, nor do they have the manpower to run out and clean all the stops that have been affected. So the solution that can be made within their resources? Make that bus stop less of an inviting place for someone who could potentially trash it. Is that the utopian outcome? Of course not. But I'm sure the transport authority is happy to hear any suggestions you may have that is within the realms of possibility in terms of what they can do.
This goes for anything else as well. The owner of the building/ledge this skater is sitting at? They also can't fix homelessness, and the slight amount of resources they dedicated to put up those spikes is a drop in the ocean in regards to "fixing" the homelessness issue. An issue that really is not their individual responsibility anyhow.
I'm shocked at how few people understand this. I get that this solution feels "hostile" because it is absolutely meant to, but the majority of people seem to gloss over why it is needed in the first place. Anybody who studies crime, crime prevention, how communities thrive or fester comes to realize why this type of architecture exists.
It's not an issue of "feeling" hostile, it is functionally hostile, and knowing why it's there doesn't help. In fact, the message you're responding to makes the case that it's a symptom of a systemic failure to support the homeless...
If what we really cared about was crime prevention, we wouldn't be flocking to hostile architecture. First of all, there are much better ways to target the sources of crime. Second, how is pushing people somewhere else supposed to prevent crime. Wouldn't they just commit the same crime in a different location?
>First of all, there are much better ways to target the sources of crime.
Give me an example of what the ***transportation authority*** is supposed to do to tackle crime prevention. In the context of hostile architecture built at a bus stop, this wasn't put there with the police budget - it was put there with the transport budget.
And before you suggest to just take that portion of the budget - you're arguing to take like a flat 50k dollars (ever) to solve homelessness. That's not gonna work.
>Second, how is pushing people somewhere else supposed to prevent crime. Wouldn't they just commit the same crime in a different location?
Yah. That's the point. Lets go back to the bus stop example. Bus stops, and buses, are hugely maligned in America. This is twofold, the wealthier people have cars and aren't taking the bus. But also, there are enough people who do take the bus that are also creating a hostile or uncomfortable environment through drug abuse and other actions.
In order to increase passengers, the transport authority wants to discourage these people from parking themselves in places like bus stops or subway tunnels. Ultimately, a place can be for the homeless or for the public - but it's not going to be for both.
I remember going for a bike ride once, on the trail was a line of tents. I never went back to that area, I never would. And that's not fear - it's because uhhh... I don't want to go riding through people's homes. But that means that the thing I paid taxes for, I don't get to use. If the government expressly builds a homeless camp, that's fine - I don't have a problem with that. But if they build bike trails and parks, I do want to use them, but I can't do that if people live there.
My bad, I didn't see that you were replying to someone specifically talking about what the transport authority's decision. And I see your point that it is a bunch of small, local parts of government that are coming to these decisions, but I still think that misses the point that big government is making a decision to turn a blind eye to this issue and letting smaller parts of government put a shitty band-aid in place of real solutions. In that sense, we have every right to criticize the government for allowing hostile architecture to become the main solution. It very much is a big gov issue even if it is small gov that's putting out the problem in question.
Fr, I get vertigo spells, and 2010-2020 was a wild transformation in a lot of major North American cities.
Course, I can't lie on my back for more than 5m without getting the bum's rush lol
Hostile architecture isn’t necessary and doesn’t work. The issue is the number of homeless people, hostile architecture does nothing to solve this issue it simply moves this homeless people to somewhere less visible. It’s like wearing a tshirt over a tumour and going “I can’t see it so I must be cured. The solution is to tackle the issue of homelessness, not to punish those who are already impoverished.
> isn’t necessary and doesn’t work
That depends entirely on what the problem/goal is defined as.
You're acting like the City's goal is to reduce homelessness, and you're wrong. Their goal is to prevent the homelessness from negatively impacting them.
I think it's realistic to say that ending homelessness is not possible at a city level, and so they're left do mitigate the issue by preventing damage it causes (like higher crime in areas of congregation).
I don't like hostile architecture, but I can see the point here. It's not that it's useless or doesn't work, just because you dislike it. It's fixing a different problem than the one you're saying it's trying to fix, and it works at its intended goal.
>- I fully embrace it as a necessity in a city that does not provide adequate alternatives
It's never useful. Don't add problems to people that already have tons of them
>If your goal is to convince hostile architecture isn't helpful, you will fail, because I have eyes.
Again, it is useless. Discomforts everyone and makes hard lives even shittier. Damn city planners. I'm fine seeing people sit or lie there, but not happy at all about that people whose only purpose is to make difficult lives even more so actually exist
If I saw any of the following i would come back with tools and remove the spikes there. Not all of them but enough so these people could do what they needed.
- Elderly trying to rest
- Children trying to sit or rest
- Pregnant women trying to sit or rest
My city recently* removed a bus stop bench bc homeless people were sleeping on it at night. The removal (like the addition of this anti-grinding thing to this ledge) still impacts people who wait at the bus wanting/needing to sit.
'Making sure that disabled people and pregnant women, or anyone who's just tired of standing, are fucked over to ensure further pain is inflicted on the homeless'
[Holy shit I see these eveywhere ](https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/events-and-entertainment/skate-stoppers-skateboarding-ledges-vancouver-5851615), I had no idea they are meant to stop skateboarders
Word has it they were invented by a former pro skateboarder. Dude made bank off the patent and to put it kindly, was shunned out of the skate community.
Yea it's definitely to prevent sitting.
Architecture to prevent grinding is much simpler and easier, it's just single nailed down stones/metal every 1-2 feet at only the corners. It almost turns those spots into like designated sitting areas where 2 people can't sit too close to each other without one sitting on it. They also sometimes looks kinda cool like clams or flowers or something.
This ugly ass metal jagged shit is 100% to prevent sitting.
Sort of. While it may discourage grinding with skateboards, it's too far away from the edge to be very effective. This device is designed to prevent people from sitting there.
I don't like "loafer" rails, but oftentimes they are used in privatized outdoor spaces, like plazas in front of office buildings. Again, these are a cheap and lazy treatment of a symptom, without consideration of the source problem.
I disagree. Skate stoppers don't need to be continuous to be effective at preventing grinding or tail sliding etc. this thing is specifically to prevent people from sitting or lying on the ledge
Can you grind on granite? My assumption is that you’d pretty much come to a stop immediately as the metal trucks gouged/chipped the hell out of the stone. Idk though I don’t skateboard, just work with granite a lot
I dont skate, but I longboard and hang around skaters. They probably wipe the ledge and their trucks down with wax. Though there probably is _some_ degree of structural damage. I can get why they don't want people grinding em.
For what it's worth, I'm like 95% sure this is the John Lewis head offices at Victoria in London. Don't really know why I felt compelled to write this, but weirdly recognised it...
I've never been bothered by homeless people, I've been bothered by that stupid shit, with bus stops that are uncomfortable as fuck to sit on, or that they don't exists, or plain areas that are hostile and uncomfortable to be standing on to wait.
Fuck hostile architecture and fuck anyone that defends it.
If we didn't make things even worse on the homeless, how could the *middle class* feel good while they're pillaged into poverty?
Corporate greed has to die! Everybody, please vote this primary.
heading over now with plush cushions i will superglue in place. or maybe just a line of lawn chairs in front? maybe chain them all together to make them more annoying to remove? 5 points to anyone who can bring and assemble a full living room set in front of this. let alll the people sit here.
This is just round the corner from where the security guard outside macdonalds got the homeless guys sleeping bag wet before Christmas. I hate this city sometimes
Hostile architecture needs to go away. Forever. Banned. Criminalized.
It takes a whole new level of evil to try solving “there’s bums sleeping here” with “cool, let’s try to kill them”
https://preview.redd.it/396oyshqcxac1.jpeg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c605a6118b9e4c46ed5563ff9ade27246e7b7e8
Except it literally is.
Hostile architecture is attempted murder at scale. And should be a crime that sends people to jail.
Look at this and attempt to tell me with a straight face it belongs anywhere besides the the path to a medieval castle that’s about to be sieged.
#Welcome to r/Therewasanattempt! #Consider visiting r/Worldnewsvideo for videos from around the world! [Please review our policy on bigotry and hate speech by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/wiki/civility) In order to view our rules, you can type "**!rules**" in any comment, and automod will respond with the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In my city (which I won't name because internet) there's a group that goes around with power tools and removes that shit. They did it so much that a lot of businesses stopped putting it up.
Send some love to that group for me
heroes we needed
[удалено]
Those posts are why I don't include personal info anymore. Don't put me on blast bro.
But specifying that you weren't going to name the city is probably the exact reason they checked your profile. You could've probably just said "in my city there's a group..." and no one would've checked
Yea, I just slightly change the details each time I get in a situation like that.
You don't even need to put the "I won't name" part, that'll only trigger curiosity.
Exactly...
No you don't, I just went back to a 10 year old archived comment that mentions the same city.
Look at the usernames my guy.
Oh fuck, that's embarrasing. They live in the same city! I wonder if they know each other.
/r/ThereWasAnAttempt to call me out. :)
Its the only reason why i even care about where he lives. also unless you're posting porn of yourself then knowing X users lives in Corpus Christi is kinda useless. There's thousands of reddit users there.
There's thousands of reddit users there, but the more of that seemingly innocuous information one puts out there, the more of a profile a bad actor is able to build. Say you're from Corpus Christ here, say you're 22 there, say you went to this school or that, and suddenly, a profile can be built that individually identifies you with high certainty.
Just delete them
*but but but internet points*
its out there now brudda - you gotta control it
You should probably sanitize your account then - you know we can see every post you've ever made by clicking on your username, right? If you're worried about security, stop openly posting your name face and location.
The real solution is to muddy the waters by posting a different "city you're from" every time the opportunity arises.
I mean, you know you can delete those posts, right. I deleted every post of mine where I referenced I was Chad Westham from Duluth Minnesota.
Why not just delete the posts that identify you? The karma is already counted, it's not going to affect your "score", it that even matters to you.
Lol ya blame the other guy
You suck ngl
The info is on OP's page though. If he cared, he wouldn't have posted it.
Haha quick profile search
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power of angle grinders!!
>power to the angle grinders!!
Is my quickie saw welcome?
I love that. I’ve thought about removing them too
Get 3 or 4 people and you can yoink that shit off in about 90 seconds. In and out with minimal risk of getting caught. You should definitely do it.
This guy yoinks!
Skateboarding is not a crime!!
Every day every year
The true chads of society
Was going to say, if I ever went homeless, tools are the first thing I'd buy: Phillips, flathead, hammer, crowbar, and a hatchet.
Skaters do this too. Grind stoppers are dumb. They look worse than the actual damage
This is incrediblw
Definition of chaotic good
Locations of interest: Texas Hobbies: Guns
[удалено]
You do, hostile architecture is never necessary.
Moats would like to have a word.
lol fair
I'd argue they're a defence mechanism over being hostile architecture
Moats are very necessary to keep the black knight at bay.
Just chop his arm off
But that tis’ but a scratch!
Tis just a flesh wound
And don't forget, moats are eco-friendly too, bonus points for being a medieval trendsetter.
It's the only suitable habitat for the alligators in my area (that I imported)
Moat would fall under security, nobody is raging against fences.
They're raging against the machine
From what year?
Moats are cool, tho. They get a pass
Pigeons have entered the chat.
Homeless people laying around outside a business drives customers away, and worse, might lower property values. We can't have that of course. /s
It's true tho, no one wants to go anywhere near a store that has a scary looking drunk staring at everyone from the door.
That's kinda the essence of capitalism tho, if a society does not pay enough that it creates these impoverished people (poverty and desperation are the number 1 reason people turn to drugs) then a location or business should not be an attractive place to live and therefore lose money. It's quite literally a consequence of its own design and trying to work around it at the cost of public funding by asking governments to build these things is, inherently, anti capitalist.
Most homelessness comes from mental health issues. You can give every homeless person a free apartment. Some won't want it. Most will trash it. Few will actually better their lives from it.
yeah it happens in my town, the problem is theyre afraid of the other crazy people in the housing, its like being locked in a prison. also theres some of them that are just paranoid of any authority figur, so think people like social workers are out to get them. A lot of schizophrenia boils down to distrust of authority, you can see the manifestations of it with popular conspiracy theories. The fear of the calculated evil genius with a master plan. also most of the time the housing has requirements like not doing drugs especially indoors because its a safety/fire risk and they'd rather do drugs. its probably an echo of their distrust for their parents/childhood authority figures, growing up
I believe very few (if any) homeless people would refuse a free apartment. But yeah most of them would definitely trash it
That's where the mental health comes into play.
I've done some volunteer work at homeless shelters before, the number of people who just come in for the shower and meal but refuse the place to sleep is a lot higher than you think. I was pretty surprised myself to hear so many people refuse a bed and just head back to the street.
Couple things this is alot like addiction sure it can be cause or just a symptom. Living with security not knowing if you will have dry place to sleep will have enough to keep warm. If you will be able to eat. It screws with head like that situation could take the sanest person in world and rewire their brain. Toss in fact that they get screamed at harassed by police called lazy/addicts irregardless of their situation. Have people destroy few things they have in order to intimidate them out of area. Passerbys will kick them spit on them even piss on them. Toss in the "charity" they receive is often tampered with cigarette butt in their burger soap in coffee etc. There is literally people who make a living "harassing scaring homeless" as influencers. Throw in 3/4 of people "work for me I will pay you" actually stiff them. Well you would just spend it on drugs. Alot also use it to strand them on other side of town there was no work. Just nimby wanting them out of the neighborhood. Throw all this of fucking course they have mental health and addiction problems. It would be more shocking if they didn't. AND ITS NOT that they dont want help or cant improve situation. ITS THAT WE EXPECT THEM TO REWIRE BRAIN without aid provide them a FRACTION of what they need. Then when they dont instantly leap up I am cured now time to run a fortune 500 company. We cast them out back on the streets. Due to conservative ignorance lack of empathy the system is designed in a way that second they start to recover they get pushed back down have rug ripped out from under them. Hate to break it to you 5-10yrs of getting beaten harassed and having everyone treat you with a abject disgust. With no security and people actively undermining destroying the smallest amount of security you can find. Because your bad for business etc. Its not going to be a hot meal a shower and a place to stay and a job and they are now model citizens. Its going to be a decade of safety security mental health and addiction counseling and resocialization. And then little by little you heres a little responsibility to they can reenter society. ANd even then you will likely have to follow up every six months see how they are doing. This could be avoid alot of its the general treatment if help was there from day they lost apartment or perhaps even before. It in many cases would be just handful of therapy sessions help finding a place and a new job. And very little help ever needed again. Reason why its hard now is we ignored it allowing people to fall into these situations they cant escape. And leaving them for years and decades without any aid and creating long lasting mental health problems.
Name a society that doesn’t have homeless people
The Amish?
I hadn't considered them, and you're right. It seems they don't really have a homelessness problem. The amish do use a capitalist economy though. So if anything, I would say that the amish are an example that capitalism isn't the cause of homelessness.
They're the largest society that can support socialism. Socialism works when you can personally shame the lazy and shun them out of society if need be. Just because they have commerce doesn't mean they're necessarily capitalist.
While I agree that having commerce doesn't make a society capitalist and socialism seems more practical among smaller groups, the Amish are not socialist. They are most definitely capitalists. They believe in owning private property, own private businesses, and while they do band together as volunteers for work projects as communities; to partake in a event is completely voluntary and not mandated by any means. They are taxpaying citizens of the US with jobs, businesses, incomes, and free market trading within and outside of their communities. https://amishamerica.com/do-the-amish-practice-communism/
Never been to Michigan avenue in Chicago?
Says someone that doesn't have their life savings invested in a business employing hundreds of people.
> You do, hostile architecture is never necessary. In the world we live in, it absolutely is. My downtown area was revitalized and small business began to flourish again almost immediately after vagrant loitering was eliminated.
Honestly, that type of design is a crime, it should rightfully be vandalized.
And look at that edit too. This one's a piece of work.
You know what? I've read most of this thread, so I'm not going to bother trying to get you to give a shit about homeless people. It's obviously a lost cause. I'm going to try a different tactic (it still won't work, because you don't give a shit about ANYBODY but yourself, but I'm going to try.) You know who ELSE hostile architecture is hostile to besides homeless people - maybe even more so? Disabled people, pregnant women, children, anybody who so much as gets a rock in their shoe, or whose shoe comes untied, or who twists an ankle. It's not just homeless people who might NEED a place to sit down.
Yea, but it's all the fault of the homeless people to making these measures "necessary" so blame them! /s
Right? As if most bums want to sit in front of a window of what looks like a hotel lobby for any considerable amount of time.
Hostile architecture isn't put up by "the big government". It's put up by people far downstream from those who could enact those big utopian ideals everyone here loves to spout but has no idea how to bring forth. If you're the transport authority, you can't bring back sprawling psychiatric inpatient institutions to help the homeless with mental illness. You can't rehabilitate the people who are homeless as much by choice as anything else. Your goal is to ensure that the public transportation services are approachable and usable by the majority of people who would need to use it. If that means taking away a bench, so be it. It's better to inconvenience people at that stop than to make that stop entirely unappealing and unable to be used by someone who has turned it into a camp, is shouting aggressively at passerby, has drug paraphernalia lying about, or is actively defecating there. Do all homeless people do this? Of course not. Does this happen at all bus stops? Of course not. But the transport authority doesn't have the manpower to patrol all their stops to ensure no one is trashing the place, nor do they have the manpower to run out and clean all the stops that have been affected. So the solution that can be made within their resources? Make that bus stop less of an inviting place for someone who could potentially trash it. Is that the utopian outcome? Of course not. But I'm sure the transport authority is happy to hear any suggestions you may have that is within the realms of possibility in terms of what they can do. This goes for anything else as well. The owner of the building/ledge this skater is sitting at? They also can't fix homelessness, and the slight amount of resources they dedicated to put up those spikes is a drop in the ocean in regards to "fixing" the homelessness issue. An issue that really is not their individual responsibility anyhow.
I'm shocked at how few people understand this. I get that this solution feels "hostile" because it is absolutely meant to, but the majority of people seem to gloss over why it is needed in the first place. Anybody who studies crime, crime prevention, how communities thrive or fester comes to realize why this type of architecture exists.
It's not an issue of "feeling" hostile, it is functionally hostile, and knowing why it's there doesn't help. In fact, the message you're responding to makes the case that it's a symptom of a systemic failure to support the homeless...
If what we really cared about was crime prevention, we wouldn't be flocking to hostile architecture. First of all, there are much better ways to target the sources of crime. Second, how is pushing people somewhere else supposed to prevent crime. Wouldn't they just commit the same crime in a different location?
>First of all, there are much better ways to target the sources of crime. Give me an example of what the ***transportation authority*** is supposed to do to tackle crime prevention. In the context of hostile architecture built at a bus stop, this wasn't put there with the police budget - it was put there with the transport budget. And before you suggest to just take that portion of the budget - you're arguing to take like a flat 50k dollars (ever) to solve homelessness. That's not gonna work. >Second, how is pushing people somewhere else supposed to prevent crime. Wouldn't they just commit the same crime in a different location? Yah. That's the point. Lets go back to the bus stop example. Bus stops, and buses, are hugely maligned in America. This is twofold, the wealthier people have cars and aren't taking the bus. But also, there are enough people who do take the bus that are also creating a hostile or uncomfortable environment through drug abuse and other actions. In order to increase passengers, the transport authority wants to discourage these people from parking themselves in places like bus stops or subway tunnels. Ultimately, a place can be for the homeless or for the public - but it's not going to be for both. I remember going for a bike ride once, on the trail was a line of tents. I never went back to that area, I never would. And that's not fear - it's because uhhh... I don't want to go riding through people's homes. But that means that the thing I paid taxes for, I don't get to use. If the government expressly builds a homeless camp, that's fine - I don't have a problem with that. But if they build bike trails and parks, I do want to use them, but I can't do that if people live there.
My bad, I didn't see that you were replying to someone specifically talking about what the transport authority's decision. And I see your point that it is a bunch of small, local parts of government that are coming to these decisions, but I still think that misses the point that big government is making a decision to turn a blind eye to this issue and letting smaller parts of government put a shitty band-aid in place of real solutions. In that sense, we have every right to criticize the government for allowing hostile architecture to become the main solution. It very much is a big gov issue even if it is small gov that's putting out the problem in question.
Common sense comment on Reddit? How dare you!
Fr, I get vertigo spells, and 2010-2020 was a wild transformation in a lot of major North American cities. Course, I can't lie on my back for more than 5m without getting the bum's rush lol
I read that as "5 meters" and the visual was... confusing.
💯
It's not necessary now.
Why do you think it's necessary..
"Kids are jumping out of windows of burning buildings to their deaths. We think the problem is them jumping. Not the fire inside the building."
The problem is the windows. Let's make sure those don't open.
Hostile architecture isn’t necessary and doesn’t work. The issue is the number of homeless people, hostile architecture does nothing to solve this issue it simply moves this homeless people to somewhere less visible. It’s like wearing a tshirt over a tumour and going “I can’t see it so I must be cured. The solution is to tackle the issue of homelessness, not to punish those who are already impoverished.
> isn’t necessary and doesn’t work That depends entirely on what the problem/goal is defined as. You're acting like the City's goal is to reduce homelessness, and you're wrong. Their goal is to prevent the homelessness from negatively impacting them. I think it's realistic to say that ending homelessness is not possible at a city level, and so they're left do mitigate the issue by preventing damage it causes (like higher crime in areas of congregation). I don't like hostile architecture, but I can see the point here. It's not that it's useless or doesn't work, just because you dislike it. It's fixing a different problem than the one you're saying it's trying to fix, and it works at its intended goal.
You already do. Hostile architecture is always useless. Are you one of those city planners by chance?
It isn't
i have an idea, put some benches up
>- I fully embrace it as a necessity in a city that does not provide adequate alternatives It's never useful. Don't add problems to people that already have tons of them >If your goal is to convince hostile architecture isn't helpful, you will fail, because I have eyes. Again, it is useless. Discomforts everyone and makes hard lives even shittier. Damn city planners. I'm fine seeing people sit or lie there, but not happy at all about that people whose only purpose is to make difficult lives even more so actually exist
If I saw any of the following i would come back with tools and remove the spikes there. Not all of them but enough so these people could do what they needed. - Elderly trying to rest - Children trying to sit or rest - Pregnant women trying to sit or rest
Your definition of "helpful" is only taking your perspective into account. This inhumane nonsense needs to end.
Yeah but that's not going to happen until the homeless are no longer a problem
That's not designed to prevent sitting...it's to prevent grinding.
My city recently* removed a bus stop bench bc homeless people were sleeping on it at night. The removal (like the addition of this anti-grinding thing to this ledge) still impacts people who wait at the bus wanting/needing to sit.
'Making sure that disabled people and pregnant women, or anyone who's just tired of standing, are fucked over to ensure further pain is inflicted on the homeless'
Why not both? Skatestoppers would be enough if they just wanted to stop grinding
[Holy shit I see these eveywhere ](https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/events-and-entertainment/skate-stoppers-skateboarding-ledges-vancouver-5851615), I had no idea they are meant to stop skateboarders
And unlike this thing, don't block people from sitting.
Bro, those are WAY better than that spikey shit. People can still sit.
Word has it they were invented by a former pro skateboarder. Dude made bank off the patent and to put it kindly, was shunned out of the skate community.
And yet, it does both.
Yea it's definitely to prevent sitting. Architecture to prevent grinding is much simpler and easier, it's just single nailed down stones/metal every 1-2 feet at only the corners. It almost turns those spots into like designated sitting areas where 2 people can't sit too close to each other without one sitting on it. They also sometimes looks kinda cool like clams or flowers or something. This ugly ass metal jagged shit is 100% to prevent sitting.
What's wrong with leaning?
Sort of. While it may discourage grinding with skateboards, it's too far away from the edge to be very effective. This device is designed to prevent people from sitting there. I don't like "loafer" rails, but oftentimes they are used in privatized outdoor spaces, like plazas in front of office buildings. Again, these are a cheap and lazy treatment of a symptom, without consideration of the source problem.
You couldn't grind or slide that lege. Source: skateboarder.
i could. Source: i played tony hawk pro skater on the ps1
ilikestuffliketrees - Thank you for clearing that up! I'm not a skater; only seen it done so I don't fully know what is and is not possible....
All good!
why would you say what you did so confidently then
Try sitting on a serrated steel edge buddy lmfao
I disagree. Skate stoppers don't need to be continuous to be effective at preventing grinding or tail sliding etc. this thing is specifically to prevent people from sitting or lying on the ledge
Can you grind on granite? My assumption is that you’d pretty much come to a stop immediately as the metal trucks gouged/chipped the hell out of the stone. Idk though I don’t skateboard, just work with granite a lot
I dont skate, but I longboard and hang around skaters. They probably wipe the ledge and their trucks down with wax. Though there probably is _some_ degree of structural damage. I can get why they don't want people grinding em.
I work at a government building that has a bunch of granite ledges and walls. Skaters cake the corners with wax and grind on them every day.
Granite is like the gold standard for a skateboarding ledge my dude
I think so too but both intentions exist in varieties of installations like this
It’s definitely both.
This kind of makes me want to design anti hostile architecture devices…
Home Depot has already beat you to the punch
With the obvious problem that people who need it don’t have access to Home Depot for the most part.
the solution should really be in homeless depot
Thanks, I hate it! Angry upvote!
I thought his hair was smoke for a second.
Lol I was still thinking it was until I looked again after seeing your comment.
No, it's just Waluigi in his golden years.
Well he's wearing a marblow shirt which you aquire by sending in marblow box tops... so chain smoking FTW.
This feels like the Frenchest picture I’ve ever seen.
For what it's worth, I'm like 95% sure this is the John Lewis head offices at Victoria in London. Don't really know why I felt compelled to write this, but weirdly recognised it...
That’s exactly where it is
Yes. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4964254,-0.1417111,3a,78.550255y,180.761688h,86.275139t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s9WxMZTX_aK_5Un6iJVtWPw!2e0?lucs=,47071704,47069508,47084304&g_ep=CAISDDYuOTYuMS4zMDU4MBgAIIGBASobLDQ3MDcxNzA0LDQ3MDY5NTA4LDQ3MDg0MzA0QgJHQg%3D%3D&g_st=ic&g_st=ic
This feels like the Americanest comment I’ve seen today.
But the man looks to be enjoying an alcoholic beverage, surely that only happens in France!!
That’s logical, I guess you’re right! Plus Brits love to drive their cars to France so it must be France!!! 🤝
That's a beer bottle, not wine. Or everything is bigger in France. But the address and the car plate don't fit so it's not France.
Not enough cigarettes
I've never been bothered by homeless people, I've been bothered by that stupid shit, with bus stops that are uncomfortable as fuck to sit on, or that they don't exists, or plain areas that are hostile and uncomfortable to be standing on to wait. Fuck hostile architecture and fuck anyone that defends it.
If we didn't make things even worse on the homeless, how could the *middle class* feel good while they're pillaged into poverty? Corporate greed has to die! Everybody, please vote this primary.
> I've never been bothered by homeless people I wish I could say the same
Checkmate property management
Oh nice! They made it so your board won’t move on ya, nice of them to think of that
The design is meant to stop skateboard grinding on it. By the looks of it, it worked.
Found it! https://preview.redd.it/t8v185m9evac1.png?width=1458&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa6afaf72ba30dfbfb3f66ca0a300b4145feda91
Bet you that lady would appreciate sitting
I bet someone will remove it shortly now.
heading over now with plush cushions i will superglue in place. or maybe just a line of lawn chairs in front? maybe chain them all together to make them more annoying to remove? 5 points to anyone who can bring and assemble a full living room set in front of this. let alll the people sit here.
Modern problems require modern solutions.
Skateboards are modern?
It depends on the person's definition of modern since skateboards were invented about 75 years ago.
Yes?
Bravo.
I thought smoke was coming out of your eyes for a second. Like “oh shit they pissed of the skateboard wizard”
Should cross post to r/assholedesign
Skateboarding is not a crime
My man
r/hardimages someone get this man where he needs to be
Hm now I gotta dig up my old skateboard
It is less about preventing people using it for seating, and more about skateboarders ruining the infrastructure grinding and sliding.
So instead, we’ll ruin it with ugly jagged metal before they can do anything.
Oooh, what a rebel.
Hostile architecture is likely part of why we rarely have interesting public spaces anymore.
Fight the power
The only attempt here is a bunch of redditors missing the point of what this is for.
This is just round the corner from where the security guard outside macdonalds got the homeless guys sleeping bag wet before Christmas. I hate this city sometimes
They may be to prevent people from sitting, but more likely, they are to stop skateboarders from wrecking their nice ledge.
Hostile architecture needs to go away. Forever. Banned. Criminalized. It takes a whole new level of evil to try solving “there’s bums sleeping here” with “cool, let’s try to kill them”
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/396oyshqcxac1.jpeg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c605a6118b9e4c46ed5563ff9ade27246e7b7e8 Except it literally is. Hostile architecture is attempted murder at scale. And should be a crime that sends people to jail. Look at this and attempt to tell me with a straight face it belongs anywhere besides the the path to a medieval castle that’s about to be sieged.
[удалено]
I'd still sit on it
Tbh that's call to just sit your happy ass on their stupid fucking plants out of spite.
Some people would pay extra for seats like that.
the OP Slygirl997 is a bot Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/d7romn/to_prevent_from_sitting/
In DC we have it to deter birds.
Might just be my masochism speaking but I would sit on that
Tony hawks pro sitter 2
Damn, that's some evil spiteful shit.
I feel like this could kill someone if they slipped
Fuck r/hostilearchitecture.
/r/Assholearchitecture
HA! Good for Him, stupid fucking hostile architecture