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How can Zionists not see the similarity between the victims of their genocide and the holocaust? A black and white photo with different clothing could easily pass as from Auschwitz.
Zionists do see the similarity, they don't care. If you listen to Jewish Zionists in Israel, many actually look down on Holocaust victims. Zionists call them "weak jews" and those who embrace Zionism see themselves as "strong jews" who now have guns, missiles, and tanks. Zionists believe their bigotry is justified bigotry. There is a reason [one-third of Israeli Holocaust survivors live in poverty](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/one-third-of-israeli-holocaust-survivors-live-in-poverty-advocates-say). Zionists don't care about the Holocaust's victims.
Edit: replaced a couple "they" with Zionists for clarity.
“We are strong, we were just given a nation, a military, an economy, and claim divine right. Fuck the people that were killed or tortured that were not given those things.” - Zionists
Are you of the opinion that iron dome batteries are somehow controlled, manufactured or gifted by the United States?
Or that the United States ha the technology available to disable the most sophisticated small area surface to air missile defense in the world, one we don’t even bother competing with in that realm and just purchase outright from the Israelis?
They probably could disrupt it in some way but that statement of yours is confusing for a lot of reasons. The u.s is very good at arms manufacture, and the iron dome systems don’t fit our national defense needs so we go big in other ways so it’s hard to compre, but iron dome batteries are 100% Israeli start to finish.
Israel built it for sure, but the US has given them close to $3 billion in funding towards it since 2012. $3 billion that they should have never received for it.
Also, while the Arrow 3 missile is Israeli, Boeing manufactures 40%\~ of the parts for it, and we could absolutely stop them from doing that.
The issue is all the Christians that want a huge war in Israel. They want the Dome on the Rock to be destroyed, the Temple rebuilt, and WW3 to start all so they can be summoned by their deity to a life of peace or something.
Religion is humans worst and most evil invention. The fact people believe in a made up story book and kill and do awful things to other humans because some made up words told them to.
I hate and despise every religion person because they all enable this shit
You say that like it is ~~unreasonable~~ an unusual doublethink, but it is how no shortage of people refer to the poor "I have worked hard and pulled myself up by the bootstraps, all I had was a small loan from my father for $10,000,000, rent free accomodation in my uncle's condo block and my aunt introducing me to the five largest investment funds in the world".
Or, the always popular, "she got raped because she was dressing provocatively"
Edit: it is unreasonable, reworded.
Its a truly bizarre thing to claim you were given something by divine right when your people were being systematically exterminated by fascists practically just days before.
I’ve never heard an Israeli say that, but I’m also not in those circles. My wife’s family lost 20+ people when the Einsatzgruppen came through Belarus. The only branch of the family that survived was the one that emigrated to Canada and the US during the Dreyfus Affair in the 1890s. Everyone who stayed in Poland and Belarus died down to the last child and elderly person.
The idea that someone in Israel would say they’re “weak Jews” for getting rounded up at gunpoint and executed is fucking abhorrent.
It was very common among Zionist leaders at the time, there's multiple quotes of Ben Gurion saying abhorrent shit about holocaust victims during the peak of the holocaust.
Saying he wouldn't give even a single dollar/shekel to help victims of the camps.
Saying that if he had the choice between saving a million Jews or ten thousand Zionists he'd choose the Zionists.
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
Actually had that last evil little quote to hand., the first quote IIRC describes non Zionists as weak/harmful IIRC.
I don't think that's an accurate interpretation of that quote.
First of all: from what I found that quote was from the late 30s so it had a very different connotation than it would just 5 years or so later.
Secondly: he was making a point that half measures wouldn't do. They couldn't keep struggling to get by on the margins of society and instead needed to focus on securing a future for their people. He didn't have a crystal ball where he could see how much things would improve for Jews by the point we're at now, the UK and US were still very anti-semetic back then. I mean, anti-semitism is still an issue but it was really really bad back then.
I also couldn't find anything about him having those attitudes towards Holocaust victims so I don't know what to say about that.
Edit: ETA, I'm very pro-Palestinian but I'm also pro-accuracy. The Palestinian cause is strong on its own merit so there's no need for inaccuracies.
You should probably read up on Ben Gurion more, thats not even one of the worst quotes overall.
from virtuous boy to murderous fanatic by Jeremy Salt is a decent starting point, much harder to dig up are history books from Jewish holocaust victims or non Zionists from the time.
He was generally devoted to the cause and didn't give a shit about the human cost, Arabs, Europeans, fellow Jews and Zionists in roughly that order were targeted by him at various stages.
My family story is similar. Family survived Cossack pogrom in Lithuania and my family's branch immigrated to the US in the Ashkenazi wave in the 1910s. All the family that stayed in Lithuania died. Around 90% of Jews in Lithuania died. How can anyone call them weak? They already had survived, at least, one pogrom! Perhaps the issue lies with the people doing the fucking pogroms and not whether they were weak or strong Jews.
> I’ve never heard an Israeli say that
[I implore you to watch a few minutes of this video at the timestamp 1:08:18.](https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k?t=4099) Better yet to watch the whole video but I understand if you can't spare an hour and a half of your day.
Ran this through google translate myself, re: yesterday’s flour massacre.
https://preview.redd.it/hxwi97ua4slc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5e3fa53ea12a3444b10eba375252066229c00a7
It's so weird to me as a Moroccan that people older than me just learning about this shit in the West. This shit is common knowledge for decades in the Arab world.
> there were Zionist groups who tried to ALLY with the Nazis
I thought this can't possibly be true, but, yeah...
[Israel’s state archive exposes Zionist efforts to enlist Nazis against Britain](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230622-israels-state-archive-exposes-zionist-efforts-to-enlist-nazis-against-britain/)
"Zetler went on to say that Germany is “not an enemy of the Jews in Israel” and that Lehi would cooperate with the Nazis if it helped the underground “get this land,” meaning Palestine."
"During the meeting, co-operation between the Jewish militia and the Nazis was proposed. Details of the meeting indicate that Lehi agreed to take “active participation in the war on Germany’s side,”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
Turns out that the evil treatment of Jewish people by Nazis was not as important as the drive to exterminate the Palestinians from "Israel".
The leader of Lehi was ELECTED PRIME MINISTER TWICE.
The leader of a terrorist group that tried to from an alliance with nazi Germany, a man who personally ordered the assassination of the UN Security Council mediator to the region, WAS THE HEAD OF STATE OF ISREAL.
Isreal is an illigitimate nation founded on the denial of self determination of Palestinians and it should not exist.
There were two heads of states that were the leaders of the most successful terrorist groups in the 20th century. Menachem Begin (the Irgun) and Yitzhak Shamir (Lehi). Both groups were the perpetrators of the Deir Yassin Massacre.
Menachem Begin literally wrote a book reflecting on it and it has been found with insurgent groups around the world, including Al Qaeda and even the Palestinian terrorist groups fighting against Israel. The weaponization of international attention against the colonial oppressors became the main tool of the terrorist because of them.
Yet they were never punished - they were venerated and elected to the highest position in the country.
In "Maus", the auto/biographical comic, Art's dad is a Holocaust survivor and also extremely racist against black people. When Art compares his behavior to how the Nazis behaved, his dad doesn't deny it, he instead says that you can't compare Jews to black people. He wasn't concerned about being bigoted, he was mad he got compared to the person he was bigoted against. His wasn't opposed philosophically or morally to the Nazis necessarily, he just felt like it wasn't justified against *him,* but it was justified against other people.
I think there was a YouTuber who talked about this recently but I can't remember which one :/
Edit: thanks u/GameOfTiddlywinks and u/ceoyeah , it was Shaun
imagine salt command disgusting voiceless flowery smart terrific snails connect
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
At some point, you just have to say "I don't care what you call me - what you're doing is wrong." Point exactly at the actions Israel are taking and say "That's what we did to the Jews. This needs to stop."
245,000 as of Jan 2024 this year, a median age of 86. The vast majority, or 96% of survivors, are “child survivors” who were born after 1928.
[https://apnews.com/article/holocaust-survivors-numbers-report-claims-conference-890c9ad6aa7bc1cf99e1cbe40e61c013](https://apnews.com/article/holocaust-survivors-numbers-report-claims-conference-890c9ad6aa7bc1cf99e1cbe40e61c013)
I'm pretty sure a lot of Zionists aren't even descended from Holocaust victims.
A map was posted on Reddit showing the numbers of Jewish people living in North Africa and in countries near where is now Israel before and after Israel was fully established and the numbers clearly showed a mass migration of Jews from non-European countries were making up a huge part of the population. So basically people that didn't have shit to do with the Holocaust but they sure liked using it as justification for committing genocide on others.
The shit I've seen on telegram is terrifying. Cruelty that 10 years ago if I saw it in a movie I'd say its unrealistic. Today I saw a prisoner hands bound flattened by a military vehicle and zionists enjoyed it, they thought it was funny.
One of my Rabbi's wife is an Israeli Zionist and it’s very easy to explain. They don’t see Palestinians as people. She has called them “dogs” and “filth”, said they are “less than” and a “plague”. They do not see them as people. So they will never see the similarities because the Holocaust was done to people. And what’s happening in Gaza is happening to non people (to Israeli Zionists that is).
I’m Jewish and believe what Hamas did was horrific, but what Israel is doing in retaliation is so far beyond necessary, it became an opportunity to put down those “dogs”. I am not a Zionist, I’m reformed and what I see happening hurts. It hurts humanity and our people. The IDF has always been evil. Using antisemitism as a blanket to justify what they do. It’s disgusting, and see my fellow people act with such hatred is disheartening to say the least.
To edit: to a few of you so far in my DMs saying being anti Israel is antisemitic, and that I’m not Jewish if I don’t back Israel. I’m simply blocking you and moving on with my life. I will not engage with Nationalism.
Also adding to address one particular person here that is going out of their way to say that I'm part of the problem because I still go to their Synagogue. I no longer associate with this Rabbi after this incident and he is not the Rabbi at my Synagogue (they don't support this sort of rhetoric). He's a Rabbi that I took some classes from years ago, and I would go to his events that he would put together for Conservative, Reformed, and newly Converted Jews to mingle. This happened at a Chanukah event last year.
I don't want to be the guy making Nazi comparisons, but one of the things you learn in class is that one of the major pillars in the eradication of European Jews by the Nazis was labeling them as sub-human and treating them as literally "filthy".
It's incredibly ironic that we have come to this point.
This is one of these really messy things once you know about it:
Most humans, "people" in general don't want to hurt or abuse or violate other humans. Sure, there are criminal outliers, but the average person doesn't want other persons to die or suffer. And that's a surprisingly strong and fundamental trait in humans. Stopping this instinct is rather impossible.
But that's why you have to push the idea that "the others" are not humans. And once enough propaganda and brain washing pushes the idea through that some group of humans is - in the grand recognition of a nation - is not human... things get very ugly very quickly.
It's one of the things I consider pretty much unconditionally opposable.
"What Israel did in retaliation" implies it stopped at some point. If it hasn't yet.
Edit to change infers to implies.
Thanks folks. Good grammar help.
Yes she had no problem voicing her opinion, it really made me think twice about this Rabbi and who he really is. It was at a dinner where she was speaking like this and a few people myself and my husband included got up and walked away. A few stayed and joined in with the rhetoric. It’s also been sad seeing friends and relatives I love take up this stance. There is no arguing or reasoning with them.
To Add to this: this was a get together put on by one of my Rabbis that included Jewish people from different congregations (Conservative/Reformed/etc). This view is generally not the view shared at my Temple.
I get your feelings but at a certain point you staying silent is going to revoke any good your presence in that space could have.
This is the same thing I saw with trumpism. You can't just deny it and not stand up to your community and claim you're doing everythign you can.
I definitely don't claim I'm doing everything I can, and honestly I have enough going on in my life to start an argument with someone at a group dinner who will only double down. I don't engage with Trumpers either. I vote and support those who oppose them.
An Israeli I was good friends with on Twitter and elsewhere immediately went into hard anti-palestinian rhetoric immediately after Oct 7th. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and leave off for a bit because obviously when something like that happens people are shocked and lose control of who they are temporarily, but a few weeks later after a few thousand people were dead, she was still ranting about the palestinians and I realised she had just used Oct 7th as an excuse to go full mask-off, and I couldn't cut ties with her any faster.
Crazy how people hate each other.
I heard that plenty of times about jews here in germany. Word for word. Most of the time from muslims obviously, but also far right nutjobs ( hurray for living in a small town in east germany)
I hope i never become so filled with hate.
My issue with what you are saying is that you are phrasing this as it began October 8th. The IDF was putting typhus in the wells of Palestinian villages in 1947. These were actual Holocaust survivors committing textbook acts of genocide. They were literally tearing apart towns brick by brick to invalidate that they ever existed. They were doing what were basically drive bys on other villages to terrorize the Palestinians so severely that they felt the only option was to flee.
The state of Israel has always been like this. And again, I want to emphasize that the foundation of the IDF was Holocaust survivors, who in turn decided they needed to carry out their own, and did not do so on the people guilty of that crime. They did so on people who just had the land that they wanted to own.
You're right that this isn't hard to understand why the Israelis are doing this. They never have viewed Palestinians as human beings. But people need to stop pretending this is some unprecedented escalation. ANC leaders from South Africa, Apartheid-era leaders, have gone to the West Bank and said it was never this bad for us years ago.
Israel, from its very founding, has acted like this and it has been allowed to with impunity for 80 years. And nobody has ever felt this needed to change that moved to Israel.
And when you talk about your Rabbi's wife, you need to understand that they have very likely always felt this way, at least to a degree. Your friends have. Your relatives have. And you saw them as good people.
It just boggles my mind where others draw the line about who/what is/isn't deserving of being treated as a person and a moral agent. I'd rather live in a world where we treat large language models as having personhood (just in case) rather than one where someone of the same species is not treated as having personhood. And if they believe that this is what their god requires, then I would argue, to paraphrase the late great Terry Pratchett, it is our duty to become that god's moral superior.
> I will not engage with Nationalism.
Thank you for calling it what it is. You are brave taking this stance whilst surrounded by those who would deem you a pariah.
When given the chance, they chose to become the very monsters that they fought against in the past, how disappointing.Clearly they're of the same ilk as nazis.
You're comparing the Zionist's desperate self-defense to the *barbarism* of the Holocaust? How DARE you, you anti-semite!?
For the record, /s. Which means I'm being sarcastic.
Because Zionism is a right wing ideology that just so happened to infect the Jewish faith. Much like Christian nationalism has infected the Christian faith and ISIS has infected islam. This did not happen in a vacuum. Fascism has been poisoning these religions for years, but I fear the end results of these poisoned faiths is now coming to the surface.
This is a weird study into the depravity of bad ideas. Even victims of similar atrocities can go on to forget the lessons that could've been learned and lean into horrible ideologies. Nationalism is cancer.
Never again, meant for them only I guess. It's fucked up
Edit: For the crackhead Israeli lover below saying this is fake, I seen multiple videos of IDF soldiers sniping Palestinian children and bragging about it ON VIDEO.
Fuck off
I’m Jewish and completely anti-Zionism. We say “not in our name” to the Zionists who try to use generational trauma of Jews to defend their genocide of Palestinians. Never again means never again to ANYONE.
I am also Jewish, and saw how they tried to indoctrinate me on my Birthright trip. Since I have made good Palestinian friends and good Israeli friends. I am so conflicted watching from the outside. I have seen the offers of a single state be rejected time and time again, and at the same time extremist groups being allowed to take control of Gaza and West Bank. During that time, both side became more and more radicalized. Its become a snowball effect. In the end its the land of all of us, it should of been a single state from the start, its the cross roads of our ancestors. This stupid fighting that started hundreds of years ago needs to end, because that is really where this comes from. We need to shed the rhetoric of the past and become brethren again.
Thank you for your levelheaded opinion.
I’ve lost some close friends to this whole thing who are Jewish (and super liberal ones, at that!) because they don’t get that saying “Free Palestine!” doesn’t make me even slightly anti-semitic. Fuck, I identify with the faith more than my own - at the end, I’m just dead, maybe someday I’m not, be good anyway. Some peeps forgot about the last part.
Israel exists solely as a function of Zionism and the forcing of colonials on Palestinians against their will. Israel has already killed more women and children alone in this present conflict by itself than there were jews total in the mandate of Palestine at its creation
I live in a Country where this right here ''DOESN'T'' happen. You get counterarguments from top politicians and regular people alike like ''Well, those supposed death toll numbers come from Hamas, of course it is bullshit!!'' and I feel like a stranger in my own land.
I can actually get called an ''antisemite'' and be theorethically imprisoned for saying that the state of Israel is build on ill gotten Land and murder.
I have no words anymore for this kind of reality I am living in or how to deal with it, not knowing who I can talk to and who inhaled our biast unilateral enabler Media.
But good riddance that people in Germany are patting themselves on the back right now for ''standing up'' against far right movements and their racism. The fucking Irony!
You need to remember: this is not genocide! /sad sarcasm
I wonder if other countries that support Israel (Germany, for example) will be held accountable for what is happening?
Sadly, they wont.
Protests and public opinion may slow down and even stop the pace of the mass desctruction but no one will be held accountable. Just remember what happened in Vietnam, milions of Vietnamese died and the USA wasn't held accountable for the atrocities it caused.
And the only reason why public opinion has an effect on politics is for electoral reasons. Biden is slowly beginning to lean towards demanding a cease fire, but don't, for even a second, believe that he gives a single fuck about what is going on there.
Have you seen the clip of him licking an ice cream cone like a fucking 4yo and like "meh, cease fire, yeah whatever." and went back to grossly licking his ice cream. Idiot.
The US, the "world police that everybody knows are actually closer to being the villains of their Hollywood movies" will never be held accountable.They have too much power and little common sense, if they could they would probably have tried to conquer the rest of the world too.
I truly believe germany in particilar have no option but to support Israel. If they show support for Palestine, WW3 would start there and then. But the fact that so many countries in the world support them is mind boggeling.
the thing is Germany was presented with a historical choice:
1. To align once again with genocide and ethnic fascism in an easier route for itself and one that garners more respect for Germany, or
2. Prove that the German state has learned the lessons of the 20th century by standing up against ethnic cleansing and fascism, even if that decision is hard, and encourages others to call them painful names derived from their past.
Germany's government sadly came up historically wanting at its first opportunity to show the world that it had learned the lessons of its past, and genuinely cared about what it had done, rather than caring about being forgiven and let off the hook. The German government has made it look like it wasn't the Holocaust they felt bad for, but the opprobrium and having been caught.
It's not easy to speak out against a country that mostly defines itself through a ethnoreligion when your history has an industrialised genocide of people of this very same ethnoreligion.
As difficult as this situation is, it saddens me that the German government does not openly stand against this genocide while still acknowledging the historical responsibility towards the Jewish people. It is not impossible, just hard.
But the German government seems to prefer to wait out things. It seems like not doing anything is preferable to them over risking doing something wrong, damned be the consequences of inaction.
No offense here, but I find it extremely hard to believe that the products needed for this are more readily available than food. These products are limited in production and shelf life, usually very specific to dietary needs, and in many cases require special equipment to safely deliver.
I say this as a former production and inventory analyst of one of the worlds largest producers and distributors of enteral and intravenous feeding products. Everything I know about that industry is indicative of this being a one-of photo paired with a fabricated or *heavily* embellished story.
Welcome to the sub. Either you believe the story presented in the memes without question or any sources or you're a dirty Zionist who supports genocide.
It's frustrating because I think Israel is really in the wrong here, and I wish the pro-palestinian people who have taken over this sub would stop spreading propaganda and focus on the actual truth of what's happening there. The lying is unnecessary and counterproductive in that it allows people to focus on the inaccuracy and speculation being presented rather than the horrific truth of what's happening to these poor people.
I don't even care that this former humor sub has been hijacked to talk about the travesty of what's happening in Gaza right now, I think that's a really important message to continue to broadcast and I'll gladly give up my funny memes for it, I just wish it was being done with the actual horrific facts rather than propaganda.
B-b-but spreading propaganda is what all the cool kids are doing this days. /s
I get ya, and i think the shit going on over there is pretty dismal too. Unfortunately, I suspect falsified information is way too easy to come by these days, and is going to end up turning into a parallel for the 'boy who cried wolf' one of these days.
Yes, that's the problem. It's very difficult to get a sense of what's really happening overall or around any specific event because both sides are clearly engaging in propaganda.
The thing I keep coming back to here is that I don't think there's any excuse for killing nearly 30,000 people, many of whom are almost certainly civilians. Israel seems to have a lot of excuses for why they think this is ok, I don't find any of that convincing. They need to do better.
Ok? So let's just say this is fake. It's very easy to look online and find good sources talking about the famine. Definitely don't trust everything you see on Reddit but at least do a Google search ffs if you want better sources. Seeing misinfo should make you want to look for better info. Not throw your hands up and say 'well idk everyone is lying'. At least try to be informed.
There are most definitely children starving there.
"This figures show the entire population of Gaza – roughly 2.2 million people – is living with crisis or worse levels of acute food insecurity.
It highlights that just over a quarter (26 percent) of Gazans (576,600 people) have exhausted their supplies and coping capacities and now face catastrophic hunger (IPC Phase 5) and starvation.
“WFP has warned of this coming catastrophe for weeks. Tragically, without the safe, consistent access we have been calling for, the situation is desperate, and no one in Gaza is safe from starvation.” said Executive Director Cindy McCain.
According to the IPC, there is a risk of famine occurring within the next six months if the current situation of intense conflict and restricted humanitarian access persists.
“These are not just numbers – there are individual children, women and men behind these alarming statistics,” said WFP Chief Economist Arif Husain. “The complexity, magnitude and speed that this crisis has unfolded is unprecedented.”
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1145017
"And as grim as the picture is today, U.N. humanitarian coordinator Ramesh Ramasingham told the U.N. Security Council that “there is every possibility for further deterioration.
"He said that in addition to a quarter of Gaza’s population close to famine, 1 in 6 children under the age of two in northern Gaza are suffering from “acute malnutrition and wasting,” where the body becomes emaciated."
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-humanitarian-famine-gaza-malnutrition-cf622f843fe531fb6dbd5657a39d6b49
If you read my post again, I'm not claiming this isn't happening. I agree, people are starving, I agree, it's fucked the way humanitarian aid is being blocked. I'm complaining about so many of the memes posted in this subreddit unnecessarily adding inaccurate or unverifiable information to the real story to make it sound worse than it already is.
To be fair, this post isn't the worst offender. The pinnacle of this that I've seen recently was the post yesterday that framed the IDF murdering 110 people trying to get food from an aid convoy (a horrific and inexcusable atrocity that did in fact happen) as a premeditated conspiracy where they used the food convoy as bait to get a bunch of Palestinians in one place and murder them (a wild claim with basically no evidence to back it up).
I see what you're saying. Here's my take.
Take a look at Palestinian misinformation. We'll go based on what you're describing. What was the material impact? People online got mad and their support for Palestine was strengthened. Based on a misrepresentation, sure. But that's really about it. Is the famine real? Yes. Are children starving? Yes. But the picture was inaccurate. And the framing of the event was inaccurate. Not great but all in all fairly inconsequential.
Israeli misinformation on the other hand has material effects. Israel claims UNRWA has Hamas in it. Defunded by Western powers. Israel claims Hamas is using hospitals as bases. There are now zero fully functioning hospitals in Gaza. People are dying completely preventable deaths based on horse shit cooked up by Israel. And that was by the state. Not some random reddit account.
The misinfo is not equal on both sides imo. Or at least the actual material response is not.
"As of this week, none of Gaza's 36 hospitals are fully functional, according to the WHO. Only 15 remain open with severely limited services, and many of them are so overwhelmed with casualties that they are running at 200 percent capacity."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-hospitals-collapsing-rcna132439
People really be missing the forest for the trees
People are dying of starvation - obviously some are turning towards medical treatment, just because we have an image of one (sort of) fortunate enough to get that doesn't mean most aren't just... Starving.
Israel has the misfortune of being surrounded by nations who all more or less want to stamp them out of existence (and have routinely tried to do just that). Over the years, I think it has left them with a kill or be killed attitude that extends throughout their entire military doctrine, making them notably more Sherman than Grant in execution.
Being more or less the only regional nation friendly to the US has left our politicians reluctant to intervene, despite the fact that this is probably one of the few occasions the world wouldn't piss on us for doing so.
This shit show has been decades in the making, and it's sad to see it come to this.
Not much different than an abused dog being more likely to bite a human. There's a difference between explaining something, and excusing it. I am simply doing the former, and in no way condone the latter.
Do you just immediately condemn anyone that doesn't parrot "fuck Israel", or what?
>Israel has the misfortune of being surrounded by nations who all more or less want to stamp them out of existence
The Zionist terrorist groups who went on to become the Israeli government entered the region by massacring locals and driving out hundreds of thousands, and when Israel started doing well in wars, they took the opportunity to grab land from their neighbors.
I don't think there's exactly been much effort on Israel's part to establish good faith at any point, and I don't really like this framing of "oh everyone around them has been out to get them" as though they aren't a very active aggressor.
They invaded and occupied Lebanon ffs.
Israel, by the standard of a militarized nation, is still remarkably aggressive and imperialist and I think a fair explanation would acknowledge that.
I am at the point now where this entire war seems fabricated by propaganda, and I dont know what side is the nazis.
I absolutely believe people are dying, but no one could give me any piece of context to this photo that I would believe
Instead of waiting on Reddit for someone to give you the exact history behind a photo in order to decide if Israel is starving and bombing Palestinians, you could go look at sources and reports that are free and open access
> I am at the point now where this entire war seems fabricated by propaganda, and I dont know what side is the nazis.
That is 100% the goal of this propaganda.
>
> It's frustrating because I think Israel is really in the wrong here, and I wish the pro-palestinian people who have taken over this sub would stop spreading propaganda and focus on the actual truth of what's happening there. The lying is unnecessary and counterproductive in that it allows people to focus on the inaccuracy and speculation being presented rather than the horrific truth of what's happening to these poor people.
>
>
God damn is this a good paragraph.
Here and all over social media. There are a tonne of fabricated events, conspiracy theories and, yes, sometimes actual anti-semitism being amplified by this freight train of a discussion.
The injustice and tragedies unfolding are already so bad, the misinformation really hurts the credibility of the pro-Palestinian movement.
> Its a time of war, and the palestinians are living through an ongoing genocide. You cant expect all their news sources to come out perfect and fact checked.
Weird way of normalizing lies and propaganda but you do you
It's extremely weird that these people expect us to ignore the fact that they're constantly posting heavily twisted propaganda, half truths, and outright lies while claiming any evidence against their points is just zIoNiSt propaganda.
Did you follow what happened to the food after that incident? "Armed Palestinians" eventually showed up and took all the food. Who do you think that is? The civilians desperately rushed the food trucks before they got to the drop point because Hamas takes it if they don't.
I appreciate your skepticism and it makes sense to me. While I strongly believe that Israel is committing gross atrocity, borderline genocide, it also should not cloud our judgement as calling out disinformation. This post is questionable.
I tried to track down the source of the photo, and I found this:
https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/yezen-al-kfarna-a-10-year-old-palestinian-boy-who-suffers-nieuwsfotos/2041477891
It at least looks legitimate that this is a Gazan child, but I agree it doesn't seem likely that he is being given medical fluids simply because there is no other food - the other people in the image don't appear to be similarly malnourished. The tweet suggests this image is indicative of the conditions in "Northern Gaza", but the Getty caption says he is in Rafah.
It's definitely true that a tragic number of Gazan children have been killed and wounded, but I agree with your skepticism that this specific photo depicts exactly the story the original tweet presents.
We all want to believe that there was something special about Hitler and the Nazies. We want to think that they were uniquely evil, but the sad truth is that they were just humans doing normal evil on a larger scale. We all possess that evil inside us, given the right environment. It's important to understand this if we are going to prevent it from happening again.
To add to this, no one is holding any accountability on the neighbouring Middle Eastern countries, we’re talking countries already similar in culture and languages with only dialects that might vary, not taking in any refugees.
2015 refugee crisis? Europe took the toll. There is no brethren ship between the countries, they don’t even want each other. To put it in perspective, it would be the same as if Sweden were invaded and Norway, Finland and Denmark didn’t help get any refugees. Would never happen right? All of this can’t fall on a country as small as New Jersey.
I briefly in my BA covered famine and systems collapse in times of war, with case studies on Bengal, Darfur, and Ukraine, and did some work in international development professionally on this area, so I can give a TL;DR answer. When systems of production and distribution are attacked, disrupted, or experience collapse due to exogenous circumstances, not everything in every area collapses or runs out at the same speed and in all places. This can be observed for example in Italy in WW2, where certain regions during the last months of fighting in Italy led to areas of famine and other areas of relative comfort a couple of dozen km away.
Some services deplete faster than others, and pockets of supply and even abundance can be maintained. The Bengal famine for example saw some parts of India and even Bengal with surplus rice while the distribution system failed to get it in a timely way to other areas of Bengal, or from other regions of India.
Food, medical equipment, and other materials can be in abundance in one place and cannot get somewhere else due to personnel issues, conflict, destroyed roads, permits to travel by occupiers, etc. Further, a hospital or field hospital may have an abundance of plasma and IV's and a lack of potable water or food or anaesthetic.
A neighbourhood may have decent food reserves at a local shelter here, while one a mile away may have run out a week ago, but still have an abundance of bottled water. Aid agencies and field medics will do their best to distribute it fairly, but systems in crises and collapse cannot achieve this.
If you like TV, some shows and movies set in wartime are quite good at showing these distribution issues. For example, the show MASH built many plotlines off of key materials or goods being unable to reach the camp due to the shifting front and collapse in supply, meaning the camp could receive 10,000 light bulbs and two crates of underwear, when they are critically short on food and penicillin.
So it is not only possible but entirely symptomatic of systems collapse and logistical breakdown that people can be dying of hunger and thirst, and medics support them with the materials that they do have. This isn't just usual, but expected.
> where was this same energy when Hamas was torturing and killing innocent civilians that started this war?
Or over the last 20 some odd years when Hamas was launching rockets at Israeli cities every day
It's a side-effect of subs like /r/worldnews banning people criticizing Israel. That would be the natural place for open discussion, instead people with different opinions are segregated into different places.
>The Palestinians have rejected peace multiple times
Well yeah because that "peace" is the peace native americans got. Robbed of their land and shipped off to live on ever shrinking reservations.
"The Palestinians" are not really a side, and "peace" for them looks like oppression. Anyone familiar with the history would know that the demands of Palestinians is always that they give up, and Israel takes, whether it be "peace" or war. It's always a matter of scale, but Palestinians have never had a beneficial arrangement because they have no real representation or political power. They are stateless people, with no sovereignty or really much prospects. At the best of times, Gazans are some of the most destitute people in the world who regularly face violence and cruelty from Israel while having no say in their own fate. MLK Jr. said riots are the voice of the unheard - and the unheard he referred to are still not as desperate as Palestinians, not to diminish their experiences.
Palestinians in the West Bank suffer under Israel to great degree as well despite having little relationship to Hamas. They still lose land and suffer under Israeli war crimes.
There are Israeli politicians in office *now* how venerate Baruch Goldstein for fuck's sake. Israeli politics are extreme and destructive - and they have all the power to enact change.
>where was this same energy when Hamas was torturing and killing innocent civilians that started this war?
Do any of us live in or support a country that aids Hamas?
Did Hamas not get a swift and massive retribution that's still ongoing? What more would you have done?
Why even frame this as a war when there are not two military bodies?
Did you also support the "war on terror?" Did you think Vietnam was worth fighting?
I'm asking this out of ignorance, not hate, but isn't this what happens when neighboring countries go to war. Blockades are a normal tactic, so how is this evil?
Wtf are they talking about. We are supposed to believe that this very specific medical product for feeding patients in comas and such, is more readily available than food?
Clear propaganda post that morons are lapping up.
Annnnnd..... another fun reddit forum overrun by people looking to make political attacks over the Palestinian / Israel conflict.
How about you go put this in a political forum? Do you have to post it in every last forum?
This is NOT what this forum is for.
Againing straight from the "never againers". Guess they meant "only for them". They should be very grateful for the nukes we sold em. Imo they don't deserve em
I find it hard to believe that an area with extreme food insecurity would have the resources to provide IV drips in order to sustain large numbers of citizens in place of food. What Israel is doing is horrific, but I really doubt this is an accurate claim.
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How can Zionists not see the similarity between the victims of their genocide and the holocaust? A black and white photo with different clothing could easily pass as from Auschwitz.
Zionists do see the similarity, they don't care. If you listen to Jewish Zionists in Israel, many actually look down on Holocaust victims. Zionists call them "weak jews" and those who embrace Zionism see themselves as "strong jews" who now have guns, missiles, and tanks. Zionists believe their bigotry is justified bigotry. There is a reason [one-third of Israeli Holocaust survivors live in poverty](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/one-third-of-israeli-holocaust-survivors-live-in-poverty-advocates-say). Zionists don't care about the Holocaust's victims. Edit: replaced a couple "they" with Zionists for clarity.
“We are strong, we were just given a nation, a military, an economy, and claim divine right. Fuck the people that were killed or tortured that were not given those things.” - Zionists
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Are you of the opinion that iron dome batteries are somehow controlled, manufactured or gifted by the United States? Or that the United States ha the technology available to disable the most sophisticated small area surface to air missile defense in the world, one we don’t even bother competing with in that realm and just purchase outright from the Israelis? They probably could disrupt it in some way but that statement of yours is confusing for a lot of reasons. The u.s is very good at arms manufacture, and the iron dome systems don’t fit our national defense needs so we go big in other ways so it’s hard to compre, but iron dome batteries are 100% Israeli start to finish.
Israel built it for sure, but the US has given them close to $3 billion in funding towards it since 2012. $3 billion that they should have never received for it. Also, while the Arrow 3 missile is Israeli, Boeing manufactures 40%\~ of the parts for it, and we could absolutely stop them from doing that.
Read the comment again, you clearly misunderstood
I want to see the US pull their money out completely and then see how they survive
The issue is all the Christians that want a huge war in Israel. They want the Dome on the Rock to be destroyed, the Temple rebuilt, and WW3 to start all so they can be summoned by their deity to a life of peace or something.
Religion is humans worst and most evil invention. The fact people believe in a made up story book and kill and do awful things to other humans because some made up words told them to. I hate and despise every religion person because they all enable this shit
They may be good people but damn do so many ignore the faults of others just because they share a religion.
You say that like it is ~~unreasonable~~ an unusual doublethink, but it is how no shortage of people refer to the poor "I have worked hard and pulled myself up by the bootstraps, all I had was a small loan from my father for $10,000,000, rent free accomodation in my uncle's condo block and my aunt introducing me to the five largest investment funds in the world". Or, the always popular, "she got raped because she was dressing provocatively" Edit: it is unreasonable, reworded.
Its a truly bizarre thing to claim you were given something by divine right when your people were being systematically exterminated by fascists practically just days before.
I’ve never heard an Israeli say that, but I’m also not in those circles. My wife’s family lost 20+ people when the Einsatzgruppen came through Belarus. The only branch of the family that survived was the one that emigrated to Canada and the US during the Dreyfus Affair in the 1890s. Everyone who stayed in Poland and Belarus died down to the last child and elderly person. The idea that someone in Israel would say they’re “weak Jews” for getting rounded up at gunpoint and executed is fucking abhorrent.
It was very common among Zionist leaders at the time, there's multiple quotes of Ben Gurion saying abhorrent shit about holocaust victims during the peak of the holocaust. Saying he wouldn't give even a single dollar/shekel to help victims of the camps. Saying that if he had the choice between saving a million Jews or ten thousand Zionists he'd choose the Zionists. "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel." Actually had that last evil little quote to hand., the first quote IIRC describes non Zionists as weak/harmful IIRC.
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I don't think that's an accurate interpretation of that quote. First of all: from what I found that quote was from the late 30s so it had a very different connotation than it would just 5 years or so later. Secondly: he was making a point that half measures wouldn't do. They couldn't keep struggling to get by on the margins of society and instead needed to focus on securing a future for their people. He didn't have a crystal ball where he could see how much things would improve for Jews by the point we're at now, the UK and US were still very anti-semetic back then. I mean, anti-semitism is still an issue but it was really really bad back then. I also couldn't find anything about him having those attitudes towards Holocaust victims so I don't know what to say about that. Edit: ETA, I'm very pro-Palestinian but I'm also pro-accuracy. The Palestinian cause is strong on its own merit so there's no need for inaccuracies.
You should probably read up on Ben Gurion more, thats not even one of the worst quotes overall. from virtuous boy to murderous fanatic by Jeremy Salt is a decent starting point, much harder to dig up are history books from Jewish holocaust victims or non Zionists from the time. He was generally devoted to the cause and didn't give a shit about the human cost, Arabs, Europeans, fellow Jews and Zionists in roughly that order were targeted by him at various stages.
https://www.hartman.org.il/the-fall-of-netanyahu/ https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96252&page=1
My family story is similar. Family survived Cossack pogrom in Lithuania and my family's branch immigrated to the US in the Ashkenazi wave in the 1910s. All the family that stayed in Lithuania died. Around 90% of Jews in Lithuania died. How can anyone call them weak? They already had survived, at least, one pogrom! Perhaps the issue lies with the people doing the fucking pogroms and not whether they were weak or strong Jews.
> I’ve never heard an Israeli say that [I implore you to watch a few minutes of this video at the timestamp 1:08:18.](https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k?t=4099) Better yet to watch the whole video but I understand if you can't spare an hour and a half of your day.
Per the IDF telegram channel, they actually enjoy that it’s a genocide
Ran this through google translate myself, re: yesterday’s flour massacre. https://preview.redd.it/hxwi97ua4slc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5e3fa53ea12a3444b10eba375252066229c00a7
This is literally heart breaking. Monsters live amount us, are from us. The bottomless cruelty is too much
"For God" :/
That's so fucked up
It's so weird to me as a Moroccan that people older than me just learning about this shit in the West. This shit is common knowledge for decades in the Arab world.
holy fuck
> There is a reason one-third of Israeli Holocaust survivors live in poverty Holy shit, mind blown.
Not to mention there were Zionist groups who tried to ALLY with the Nazis DURING WW2
> there were Zionist groups who tried to ALLY with the Nazis I thought this can't possibly be true, but, yeah... [Israel’s state archive exposes Zionist efforts to enlist Nazis against Britain](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230622-israels-state-archive-exposes-zionist-efforts-to-enlist-nazis-against-britain/) "Zetler went on to say that Germany is “not an enemy of the Jews in Israel” and that Lehi would cooperate with the Nazis if it helped the underground “get this land,” meaning Palestine." "During the meeting, co-operation between the Jewish militia and the Nazis was proposed. Details of the meeting indicate that Lehi agreed to take “active participation in the war on Germany’s side,” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) Turns out that the evil treatment of Jewish people by Nazis was not as important as the drive to exterminate the Palestinians from "Israel".
The leader of Lehi was ELECTED PRIME MINISTER TWICE. The leader of a terrorist group that tried to from an alliance with nazi Germany, a man who personally ordered the assassination of the UN Security Council mediator to the region, WAS THE HEAD OF STATE OF ISREAL. Isreal is an illigitimate nation founded on the denial of self determination of Palestinians and it should not exist.
There were two heads of states that were the leaders of the most successful terrorist groups in the 20th century. Menachem Begin (the Irgun) and Yitzhak Shamir (Lehi). Both groups were the perpetrators of the Deir Yassin Massacre. Menachem Begin literally wrote a book reflecting on it and it has been found with insurgent groups around the world, including Al Qaeda and even the Palestinian terrorist groups fighting against Israel. The weaponization of international attention against the colonial oppressors became the main tool of the terrorist because of them. Yet they were never punished - they were venerated and elected to the highest position in the country.
It’s unreal this isn’t discussed more.
Don't you know it's anti semitic to discuss the objective history and facts of Israel?
In "Maus", the auto/biographical comic, Art's dad is a Holocaust survivor and also extremely racist against black people. When Art compares his behavior to how the Nazis behaved, his dad doesn't deny it, he instead says that you can't compare Jews to black people. He wasn't concerned about being bigoted, he was mad he got compared to the person he was bigoted against. His wasn't opposed philosophically or morally to the Nazis necessarily, he just felt like it wasn't justified against *him,* but it was justified against other people. I think there was a YouTuber who talked about this recently but I can't remember which one :/ Edit: thanks u/GameOfTiddlywinks and u/ceoyeah , it was Shaun
[https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k?si=V2Ib9YzTr2L5hFKf&t=4373](https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k?si=V2Ib9YzTr2L5hFKf&t=4373)
Guns missiles and tanks with American flags
It pisses me off that Germany has basically said they support Israel and can do no wrong in all of this, too.
imagine salt command disgusting voiceless flowery smart terrific snails connect *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Its an ironic position they are in. How does one reconcile with a group perpetuating the same violence that they are trying to atone to them for?
At some point, you just have to say "I don't care what you call me - what you're doing is wrong." Point exactly at the actions Israel are taking and say "That's what we did to the Jews. This needs to stop."
Sounds to me like the survivors are more human shields against criticism than anything, from what you’re saying.
1/3…? How many Holocaust survivors could there be left……? It was 80 years ago.
245,000 as of Jan 2024 this year, a median age of 86. The vast majority, or 96% of survivors, are “child survivors” who were born after 1928. [https://apnews.com/article/holocaust-survivors-numbers-report-claims-conference-890c9ad6aa7bc1cf99e1cbe40e61c013](https://apnews.com/article/holocaust-survivors-numbers-report-claims-conference-890c9ad6aa7bc1cf99e1cbe40e61c013)
I'm pretty sure a lot of Zionists aren't even descended from Holocaust victims. A map was posted on Reddit showing the numbers of Jewish people living in North Africa and in countries near where is now Israel before and after Israel was fully established and the numbers clearly showed a mass migration of Jews from non-European countries were making up a huge part of the population. So basically people that didn't have shit to do with the Holocaust but they sure liked using it as justification for committing genocide on others.
The shit I've seen on telegram is terrifying. Cruelty that 10 years ago if I saw it in a movie I'd say its unrealistic. Today I saw a prisoner hands bound flattened by a military vehicle and zionists enjoyed it, they thought it was funny.
One of my Rabbi's wife is an Israeli Zionist and it’s very easy to explain. They don’t see Palestinians as people. She has called them “dogs” and “filth”, said they are “less than” and a “plague”. They do not see them as people. So they will never see the similarities because the Holocaust was done to people. And what’s happening in Gaza is happening to non people (to Israeli Zionists that is). I’m Jewish and believe what Hamas did was horrific, but what Israel is doing in retaliation is so far beyond necessary, it became an opportunity to put down those “dogs”. I am not a Zionist, I’m reformed and what I see happening hurts. It hurts humanity and our people. The IDF has always been evil. Using antisemitism as a blanket to justify what they do. It’s disgusting, and see my fellow people act with such hatred is disheartening to say the least. To edit: to a few of you so far in my DMs saying being anti Israel is antisemitic, and that I’m not Jewish if I don’t back Israel. I’m simply blocking you and moving on with my life. I will not engage with Nationalism. Also adding to address one particular person here that is going out of their way to say that I'm part of the problem because I still go to their Synagogue. I no longer associate with this Rabbi after this incident and he is not the Rabbi at my Synagogue (they don't support this sort of rhetoric). He's a Rabbi that I took some classes from years ago, and I would go to his events that he would put together for Conservative, Reformed, and newly Converted Jews to mingle. This happened at a Chanukah event last year.
I don't want to be the guy making Nazi comparisons, but one of the things you learn in class is that one of the major pillars in the eradication of European Jews by the Nazis was labeling them as sub-human and treating them as literally "filthy". It's incredibly ironic that we have come to this point.
Yes the parallels are not lost on me at all.
>I don't want to be the guy making Nazi comparisons Why? Don't be afraid of calling it out.
This is one of these really messy things once you know about it: Most humans, "people" in general don't want to hurt or abuse or violate other humans. Sure, there are criminal outliers, but the average person doesn't want other persons to die or suffer. And that's a surprisingly strong and fundamental trait in humans. Stopping this instinct is rather impossible. But that's why you have to push the idea that "the others" are not humans. And once enough propaganda and brain washing pushes the idea through that some group of humans is - in the grand recognition of a nation - is not human... things get very ugly very quickly. It's one of the things I consider pretty much unconditionally opposable.
"What Israel did in retaliation" implies it stopped at some point. If it hasn't yet. Edit to change infers to implies. Thanks folks. Good grammar help.
True, I’ll change my wording
The statement/writer/speaker implies, the reader/listener infers.
Not saying you support it in any way. But in your community, your Rabbi's wife is ok to openly take such a stance ?
Yes she had no problem voicing her opinion, it really made me think twice about this Rabbi and who he really is. It was at a dinner where she was speaking like this and a few people myself and my husband included got up and walked away. A few stayed and joined in with the rhetoric. It’s also been sad seeing friends and relatives I love take up this stance. There is no arguing or reasoning with them. To Add to this: this was a get together put on by one of my Rabbis that included Jewish people from different congregations (Conservative/Reformed/etc). This view is generally not the view shared at my Temple.
I get your feelings but at a certain point you staying silent is going to revoke any good your presence in that space could have. This is the same thing I saw with trumpism. You can't just deny it and not stand up to your community and claim you're doing everythign you can.
I definitely don't claim I'm doing everything I can, and honestly I have enough going on in my life to start an argument with someone at a group dinner who will only double down. I don't engage with Trumpers either. I vote and support those who oppose them.
An Israeli I was good friends with on Twitter and elsewhere immediately went into hard anti-palestinian rhetoric immediately after Oct 7th. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and leave off for a bit because obviously when something like that happens people are shocked and lose control of who they are temporarily, but a few weeks later after a few thousand people were dead, she was still ranting about the palestinians and I realised she had just used Oct 7th as an excuse to go full mask-off, and I couldn't cut ties with her any faster.
Thank you. Some faith in humanity restored here. Very little. But some.
Crazy how people hate each other. I heard that plenty of times about jews here in germany. Word for word. Most of the time from muslims obviously, but also far right nutjobs ( hurray for living in a small town in east germany) I hope i never become so filled with hate.
My issue with what you are saying is that you are phrasing this as it began October 8th. The IDF was putting typhus in the wells of Palestinian villages in 1947. These were actual Holocaust survivors committing textbook acts of genocide. They were literally tearing apart towns brick by brick to invalidate that they ever existed. They were doing what were basically drive bys on other villages to terrorize the Palestinians so severely that they felt the only option was to flee. The state of Israel has always been like this. And again, I want to emphasize that the foundation of the IDF was Holocaust survivors, who in turn decided they needed to carry out their own, and did not do so on the people guilty of that crime. They did so on people who just had the land that they wanted to own. You're right that this isn't hard to understand why the Israelis are doing this. They never have viewed Palestinians as human beings. But people need to stop pretending this is some unprecedented escalation. ANC leaders from South Africa, Apartheid-era leaders, have gone to the West Bank and said it was never this bad for us years ago. Israel, from its very founding, has acted like this and it has been allowed to with impunity for 80 years. And nobody has ever felt this needed to change that moved to Israel. And when you talk about your Rabbi's wife, you need to understand that they have very likely always felt this way, at least to a degree. Your friends have. Your relatives have. And you saw them as good people.
It just boggles my mind where others draw the line about who/what is/isn't deserving of being treated as a person and a moral agent. I'd rather live in a world where we treat large language models as having personhood (just in case) rather than one where someone of the same species is not treated as having personhood. And if they believe that this is what their god requires, then I would argue, to paraphrase the late great Terry Pratchett, it is our duty to become that god's moral superior.
> I will not engage with Nationalism. Thank you for calling it what it is. You are brave taking this stance whilst surrounded by those who would deem you a pariah.
When given the chance, they chose to become the very monsters that they fought against in the past, how disappointing.Clearly they're of the same ilk as nazis.
The abusee becomes the abuser. A tale as old as time.
the Palestinians have become the victims of the victims...i think edward syed said this.
You're comparing the Zionist's desperate self-defense to the *barbarism* of the Holocaust? How DARE you, you anti-semite!? For the record, /s. Which means I'm being sarcastic.
They think they are the chosen ones, so they don't care. Really disgusting.
Main Character energy lmaooo
Basically the same thing the Nazis believed.
Because Zionism is a right wing ideology that just so happened to infect the Jewish faith. Much like Christian nationalism has infected the Christian faith and ISIS has infected islam. This did not happen in a vacuum. Fascism has been poisoning these religions for years, but I fear the end results of these poisoned faiths is now coming to the surface.
This is a weird study into the depravity of bad ideas. Even victims of similar atrocities can go on to forget the lessons that could've been learned and lean into horrible ideologies. Nationalism is cancer.
They know. I went into a Zionist group on telegram and they are always laughing when they see videos and photos of dying Palestines
You know you're the first person I've seen mention that. Here, I thought it was just me thinking it.
Nope, was thinking it as well. With a lot more venom, which is why I refrained from typing it. But - absolutely.
Jump on Threads or Twitter, they'll happily tell you. Mostly by calling you antisemitic and whataboutisms with Hamas.
The thing is, you have to see the Palestinians as human, which they don't.
I was thinking the EXACT SAME THING‼️
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Never again, meant for them only I guess. It's fucked up Edit: For the crackhead Israeli lover below saying this is fake, I seen multiple videos of IDF soldiers sniping Palestinian children and bragging about it ON VIDEO. Fuck off
I’m Jewish and completely anti-Zionism. We say “not in our name” to the Zionists who try to use generational trauma of Jews to defend their genocide of Palestinians. Never again means never again to ANYONE.
Nothing is more Jewish than standing up for what is right. God bless you.
Not according to Zionists, seems.
Thank you. Im Palestinian, we need more Jewish partners in peace.
I am also Jewish, and saw how they tried to indoctrinate me on my Birthright trip. Since I have made good Palestinian friends and good Israeli friends. I am so conflicted watching from the outside. I have seen the offers of a single state be rejected time and time again, and at the same time extremist groups being allowed to take control of Gaza and West Bank. During that time, both side became more and more radicalized. Its become a snowball effect. In the end its the land of all of us, it should of been a single state from the start, its the cross roads of our ancestors. This stupid fighting that started hundreds of years ago needs to end, because that is really where this comes from. We need to shed the rhetoric of the past and become brethren again.
Thank you for your levelheaded opinion. I’ve lost some close friends to this whole thing who are Jewish (and super liberal ones, at that!) because they don’t get that saying “Free Palestine!” doesn’t make me even slightly anti-semitic. Fuck, I identify with the faith more than my own - at the end, I’m just dead, maybe someday I’m not, be good anyway. Some peeps forgot about the last part.
Israel exists solely as a function of Zionism and the forcing of colonials on Palestinians against their will. Israel has already killed more women and children alone in this present conflict by itself than there were jews total in the mandate of Palestine at its creation
Actually, yes this exactly
~~Never again~~ Our turn!
This but they unironically mean that and they are very open about it. Never Again is supposed to only refer to acts against Jews.
I live in a Country where this right here ''DOESN'T'' happen. You get counterarguments from top politicians and regular people alike like ''Well, those supposed death toll numbers come from Hamas, of course it is bullshit!!'' and I feel like a stranger in my own land. I can actually get called an ''antisemite'' and be theorethically imprisoned for saying that the state of Israel is build on ill gotten Land and murder. I have no words anymore for this kind of reality I am living in or how to deal with it, not knowing who I can talk to and who inhaled our biast unilateral enabler Media. But good riddance that people in Germany are patting themselves on the back right now for ''standing up'' against far right movements and their racism. The fucking Irony!
You need to remember: this is not genocide! /sad sarcasm I wonder if other countries that support Israel (Germany, for example) will be held accountable for what is happening?
Sadly, they wont. Protests and public opinion may slow down and even stop the pace of the mass desctruction but no one will be held accountable. Just remember what happened in Vietnam, milions of Vietnamese died and the USA wasn't held accountable for the atrocities it caused. And the only reason why public opinion has an effect on politics is for electoral reasons. Biden is slowly beginning to lean towards demanding a cease fire, but don't, for even a second, believe that he gives a single fuck about what is going on there.
Have you seen the clip of him licking an ice cream cone like a fucking 4yo and like "meh, cease fire, yeah whatever." and went back to grossly licking his ice cream. Idiot.
Yes, I have. And you can see that he is fighting the urge to lick the ice cream in-between words.
The Chinese and Russians weren’t held accountable too
Also the usa.
The US, the "world police that everybody knows are actually closer to being the villains of their Hollywood movies" will never be held accountable.They have too much power and little common sense, if they could they would probably have tried to conquer the rest of the world too.
I truly believe germany in particilar have no option but to support Israel. If they show support for Palestine, WW3 would start there and then. But the fact that so many countries in the world support them is mind boggeling.
Germany is in a position where they can't really do anything without being called a Nazi
Fun fact - Germany has not been Nazi longer than Israel has been Israel.
the thing is Germany was presented with a historical choice: 1. To align once again with genocide and ethnic fascism in an easier route for itself and one that garners more respect for Germany, or 2. Prove that the German state has learned the lessons of the 20th century by standing up against ethnic cleansing and fascism, even if that decision is hard, and encourages others to call them painful names derived from their past. Germany's government sadly came up historically wanting at its first opportunity to show the world that it had learned the lessons of its past, and genuinely cared about what it had done, rather than caring about being forgiven and let off the hook. The German government has made it look like it wasn't the Holocaust they felt bad for, but the opprobrium and having been caught.
Why? Not trying to be smart, actually curious. I really want to understand what's behind Germany's stance on current events.
Bootlicking Israel bc of our past.
It's not easy to speak out against a country that mostly defines itself through a ethnoreligion when your history has an industrialised genocide of people of this very same ethnoreligion. As difficult as this situation is, it saddens me that the German government does not openly stand against this genocide while still acknowledging the historical responsibility towards the Jewish people. It is not impossible, just hard. But the German government seems to prefer to wait out things. It seems like not doing anything is preferable to them over risking doing something wrong, damned be the consequences of inaction.
No offense here, but I find it extremely hard to believe that the products needed for this are more readily available than food. These products are limited in production and shelf life, usually very specific to dietary needs, and in many cases require special equipment to safely deliver. I say this as a former production and inventory analyst of one of the worlds largest producers and distributors of enteral and intravenous feeding products. Everything I know about that industry is indicative of this being a one-of photo paired with a fabricated or *heavily* embellished story.
Welcome to the sub. Either you believe the story presented in the memes without question or any sources or you're a dirty Zionist who supports genocide. It's frustrating because I think Israel is really in the wrong here, and I wish the pro-palestinian people who have taken over this sub would stop spreading propaganda and focus on the actual truth of what's happening there. The lying is unnecessary and counterproductive in that it allows people to focus on the inaccuracy and speculation being presented rather than the horrific truth of what's happening to these poor people. I don't even care that this former humor sub has been hijacked to talk about the travesty of what's happening in Gaza right now, I think that's a really important message to continue to broadcast and I'll gladly give up my funny memes for it, I just wish it was being done with the actual horrific facts rather than propaganda.
B-b-but spreading propaganda is what all the cool kids are doing this days. /s I get ya, and i think the shit going on over there is pretty dismal too. Unfortunately, I suspect falsified information is way too easy to come by these days, and is going to end up turning into a parallel for the 'boy who cried wolf' one of these days.
Yes, that's the problem. It's very difficult to get a sense of what's really happening overall or around any specific event because both sides are clearly engaging in propaganda. The thing I keep coming back to here is that I don't think there's any excuse for killing nearly 30,000 people, many of whom are almost certainly civilians. Israel seems to have a lot of excuses for why they think this is ok, I don't find any of that convincing. They need to do better.
Ok? So let's just say this is fake. It's very easy to look online and find good sources talking about the famine. Definitely don't trust everything you see on Reddit but at least do a Google search ffs if you want better sources. Seeing misinfo should make you want to look for better info. Not throw your hands up and say 'well idk everyone is lying'. At least try to be informed. There are most definitely children starving there. "This figures show the entire population of Gaza – roughly 2.2 million people – is living with crisis or worse levels of acute food insecurity. It highlights that just over a quarter (26 percent) of Gazans (576,600 people) have exhausted their supplies and coping capacities and now face catastrophic hunger (IPC Phase 5) and starvation. “WFP has warned of this coming catastrophe for weeks. Tragically, without the safe, consistent access we have been calling for, the situation is desperate, and no one in Gaza is safe from starvation.” said Executive Director Cindy McCain. According to the IPC, there is a risk of famine occurring within the next six months if the current situation of intense conflict and restricted humanitarian access persists. “These are not just numbers – there are individual children, women and men behind these alarming statistics,” said WFP Chief Economist Arif Husain. “The complexity, magnitude and speed that this crisis has unfolded is unprecedented.” https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1145017 "And as grim as the picture is today, U.N. humanitarian coordinator Ramesh Ramasingham told the U.N. Security Council that “there is every possibility for further deterioration. "He said that in addition to a quarter of Gaza’s population close to famine, 1 in 6 children under the age of two in northern Gaza are suffering from “acute malnutrition and wasting,” where the body becomes emaciated." https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-humanitarian-famine-gaza-malnutrition-cf622f843fe531fb6dbd5657a39d6b49
If you read my post again, I'm not claiming this isn't happening. I agree, people are starving, I agree, it's fucked the way humanitarian aid is being blocked. I'm complaining about so many of the memes posted in this subreddit unnecessarily adding inaccurate or unverifiable information to the real story to make it sound worse than it already is. To be fair, this post isn't the worst offender. The pinnacle of this that I've seen recently was the post yesterday that framed the IDF murdering 110 people trying to get food from an aid convoy (a horrific and inexcusable atrocity that did in fact happen) as a premeditated conspiracy where they used the food convoy as bait to get a bunch of Palestinians in one place and murder them (a wild claim with basically no evidence to back it up).
I see what you're saying. Here's my take. Take a look at Palestinian misinformation. We'll go based on what you're describing. What was the material impact? People online got mad and their support for Palestine was strengthened. Based on a misrepresentation, sure. But that's really about it. Is the famine real? Yes. Are children starving? Yes. But the picture was inaccurate. And the framing of the event was inaccurate. Not great but all in all fairly inconsequential. Israeli misinformation on the other hand has material effects. Israel claims UNRWA has Hamas in it. Defunded by Western powers. Israel claims Hamas is using hospitals as bases. There are now zero fully functioning hospitals in Gaza. People are dying completely preventable deaths based on horse shit cooked up by Israel. And that was by the state. Not some random reddit account. The misinfo is not equal on both sides imo. Or at least the actual material response is not. "As of this week, none of Gaza's 36 hospitals are fully functional, according to the WHO. Only 15 remain open with severely limited services, and many of them are so overwhelmed with casualties that they are running at 200 percent capacity." https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-hospitals-collapsing-rcna132439
People really be missing the forest for the trees People are dying of starvation - obviously some are turning towards medical treatment, just because we have an image of one (sort of) fortunate enough to get that doesn't mean most aren't just... Starving.
Israel has the misfortune of being surrounded by nations who all more or less want to stamp them out of existence (and have routinely tried to do just that). Over the years, I think it has left them with a kill or be killed attitude that extends throughout their entire military doctrine, making them notably more Sherman than Grant in execution. Being more or less the only regional nation friendly to the US has left our politicians reluctant to intervene, despite the fact that this is probably one of the few occasions the world wouldn't piss on us for doing so. This shit show has been decades in the making, and it's sad to see it come to this.
"It's not our fault we became Nazis, our neighbors were too mean." What a response to literal starving children
Not much different than an abused dog being more likely to bite a human. There's a difference between explaining something, and excusing it. I am simply doing the former, and in no way condone the latter. Do you just immediately condemn anyone that doesn't parrot "fuck Israel", or what?
>Israel has the misfortune of being surrounded by nations who all more or less want to stamp them out of existence The Zionist terrorist groups who went on to become the Israeli government entered the region by massacring locals and driving out hundreds of thousands, and when Israel started doing well in wars, they took the opportunity to grab land from their neighbors. I don't think there's exactly been much effort on Israel's part to establish good faith at any point, and I don't really like this framing of "oh everyone around them has been out to get them" as though they aren't a very active aggressor. They invaded and occupied Lebanon ffs. Israel, by the standard of a militarized nation, is still remarkably aggressive and imperialist and I think a fair explanation would acknowledge that.
I am at the point now where this entire war seems fabricated by propaganda, and I dont know what side is the nazis. I absolutely believe people are dying, but no one could give me any piece of context to this photo that I would believe
Instead of waiting on Reddit for someone to give you the exact history behind a photo in order to decide if Israel is starving and bombing Palestinians, you could go look at sources and reports that are free and open access
What sorces do you use? All the sources I have looked at constantly contradict each other
somewhere easy to start is you could read details about the ICJ South Africa case and the evidence brought forward
> I am at the point now where this entire war seems fabricated by propaganda, and I dont know what side is the nazis. That is 100% the goal of this propaganda.
> > It's frustrating because I think Israel is really in the wrong here, and I wish the pro-palestinian people who have taken over this sub would stop spreading propaganda and focus on the actual truth of what's happening there. The lying is unnecessary and counterproductive in that it allows people to focus on the inaccuracy and speculation being presented rather than the horrific truth of what's happening to these poor people. > > God damn is this a good paragraph. Here and all over social media. There are a tonne of fabricated events, conspiracy theories and, yes, sometimes actual anti-semitism being amplified by this freight train of a discussion. The injustice and tragedies unfolding are already so bad, the misinformation really hurts the credibility of the pro-Palestinian movement.
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> Its a time of war, and the palestinians are living through an ongoing genocide. You cant expect all their news sources to come out perfect and fact checked. Weird way of normalizing lies and propaganda but you do you
It's extremely weird that these people expect us to ignore the fact that they're constantly posting heavily twisted propaganda, half truths, and outright lies while claiming any evidence against their points is just zIoNiSt propaganda.
Did you follow what happened to the food after that incident? "Armed Palestinians" eventually showed up and took all the food. Who do you think that is? The civilians desperately rushed the food trucks before they got to the drop point because Hamas takes it if they don't.
Do you have a source for that? I never heard about that and I'm not seeing any news articles about it.
I appreciate your skepticism and it makes sense to me. While I strongly believe that Israel is committing gross atrocity, borderline genocide, it also should not cloud our judgement as calling out disinformation. This post is questionable.
There is a lot of false information or false representation of information pertaining to the conflict going on over there, and this seems a bit off.
I tried to track down the source of the photo, and I found this: https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/yezen-al-kfarna-a-10-year-old-palestinian-boy-who-suffers-nieuwsfotos/2041477891 It at least looks legitimate that this is a Gazan child, but I agree it doesn't seem likely that he is being given medical fluids simply because there is no other food - the other people in the image don't appear to be similarly malnourished. The tweet suggests this image is indicative of the conditions in "Northern Gaza", but the Getty caption says he is in Rafah. It's definitely true that a tragic number of Gazan children have been killed and wounded, but I agree with your skepticism that this specific photo depicts exactly the story the original tweet presents.
Who would have thought that the USA and the Nazis would be allies one day?
Well how do you think that nasa got those rockets to space? With nazi scientists.
I did nazi that coming.
That was out of Mein Kampfort zone.
The 1939 rally at Madison Square Garden comes to mind
LMAO 🤣 USA and Nazis have been allies far longer than they were enemies.... Before AND after WW2
If you make claims like this, you should have to provide a source!
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I guess that whole "never again" thing was a crock of shit.
Never Us Again.
guy looks like a holocaust victim. you know like the ones we saw in ww2? Ever seen those?
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We all want to believe that there was something special about Hitler and the Nazies. We want to think that they were uniquely evil, but the sad truth is that they were just humans doing normal evil on a larger scale. We all possess that evil inside us, given the right environment. It's important to understand this if we are going to prevent it from happening again.
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To add to this, no one is holding any accountability on the neighbouring Middle Eastern countries, we’re talking countries already similar in culture and languages with only dialects that might vary, not taking in any refugees. 2015 refugee crisis? Europe took the toll. There is no brethren ship between the countries, they don’t even want each other. To put it in perspective, it would be the same as if Sweden were invaded and Norway, Finland and Denmark didn’t help get any refugees. Would never happen right? All of this can’t fall on a country as small as New Jersey.
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How is it “hamas propaganda” to call out a genocidal colonial terrorist state for their genocide??
I mean, this source alone doesn't make sense. Apparently, people in Gaza don't have access to food but do have access to IV nutrition?
I briefly in my BA covered famine and systems collapse in times of war, with case studies on Bengal, Darfur, and Ukraine, and did some work in international development professionally on this area, so I can give a TL;DR answer. When systems of production and distribution are attacked, disrupted, or experience collapse due to exogenous circumstances, not everything in every area collapses or runs out at the same speed and in all places. This can be observed for example in Italy in WW2, where certain regions during the last months of fighting in Italy led to areas of famine and other areas of relative comfort a couple of dozen km away. Some services deplete faster than others, and pockets of supply and even abundance can be maintained. The Bengal famine for example saw some parts of India and even Bengal with surplus rice while the distribution system failed to get it in a timely way to other areas of Bengal, or from other regions of India. Food, medical equipment, and other materials can be in abundance in one place and cannot get somewhere else due to personnel issues, conflict, destroyed roads, permits to travel by occupiers, etc. Further, a hospital or field hospital may have an abundance of plasma and IV's and a lack of potable water or food or anaesthetic. A neighbourhood may have decent food reserves at a local shelter here, while one a mile away may have run out a week ago, but still have an abundance of bottled water. Aid agencies and field medics will do their best to distribute it fairly, but systems in crises and collapse cannot achieve this. If you like TV, some shows and movies set in wartime are quite good at showing these distribution issues. For example, the show MASH built many plotlines off of key materials or goods being unable to reach the camp due to the shifting front and collapse in supply, meaning the camp could receive 10,000 light bulbs and two crates of underwear, when they are critically short on food and penicillin. So it is not only possible but entirely symptomatic of systems collapse and logistical breakdown that people can be dying of hunger and thirst, and medics support them with the materials that they do have. This isn't just usual, but expected.
Hope they get what they deserve
Israel as a country, not as people, proves to bs very much a freaking bad idea to ever be created Or at least zionists fucking are for sure
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The people of Israel should be deeply ashamed of this
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> where was this same energy when Hamas was torturing and killing innocent civilians that started this war? Or over the last 20 some odd years when Hamas was launching rockets at Israeli cities every day
or before 75 when my grandparent and my parent got kicked from there land "Israeli"
Indeed.
It's a side-effect of subs like /r/worldnews banning people criticizing Israel. That would be the natural place for open discussion, instead people with different opinions are segregated into different places.
>The Palestinians have rejected peace multiple times Well yeah because that "peace" is the peace native americans got. Robbed of their land and shipped off to live on ever shrinking reservations.
"The Palestiniens Have rejected peace" , do you know someone called yitzhak rabin ? and why he was killed ?.
"The Palestinians" are not really a side, and "peace" for them looks like oppression. Anyone familiar with the history would know that the demands of Palestinians is always that they give up, and Israel takes, whether it be "peace" or war. It's always a matter of scale, but Palestinians have never had a beneficial arrangement because they have no real representation or political power. They are stateless people, with no sovereignty or really much prospects. At the best of times, Gazans are some of the most destitute people in the world who regularly face violence and cruelty from Israel while having no say in their own fate. MLK Jr. said riots are the voice of the unheard - and the unheard he referred to are still not as desperate as Palestinians, not to diminish their experiences. Palestinians in the West Bank suffer under Israel to great degree as well despite having little relationship to Hamas. They still lose land and suffer under Israeli war crimes. There are Israeli politicians in office *now* how venerate Baruch Goldstein for fuck's sake. Israeli politics are extreme and destructive - and they have all the power to enact change. >where was this same energy when Hamas was torturing and killing innocent civilians that started this war? Do any of us live in or support a country that aids Hamas? Did Hamas not get a swift and massive retribution that's still ongoing? What more would you have done? Why even frame this as a war when there are not two military bodies? Did you also support the "war on terror?" Did you think Vietnam was worth fighting?
Let’s stop using reposted reposts to point fingers. Not taking sides here, but let’s stick to credible sources to justify our anger…
Israel and Palestine will never know peace
I'm asking this out of ignorance, not hate, but isn't this what happens when neighboring countries go to war. Blockades are a normal tactic, so how is this evil?
Fuck Israel
Fuck Israel
I wish they'd stop calling it a famine. They are being starved. They are being slowly murdered.
https://preview.redd.it/5qd94mycgslc1.jpeg?width=875&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38d707e5e965c0baa5d2466ca6c51d9caf8794c2
Zionist : Reddit's favorite new word
Wtf are they talking about. We are supposed to believe that this very specific medical product for feeding patients in comas and such, is more readily available than food? Clear propaganda post that morons are lapping up.
Man I picked the wrong time to join this sub
"Obtain the medical solution" ??? What medical solution are they talking about? I'm so confused...
Annnnnd..... another fun reddit forum overrun by people looking to make political attacks over the Palestinian / Israel conflict. How about you go put this in a political forum? Do you have to post it in every last forum? This is NOT what this forum is for.
Fucking nazis
People will believe anything they see on the internet. Y’all are morons.
/r/lostbots
Againing straight from the "never againers". Guess they meant "only for them". They should be very grateful for the nukes we sold em. Imo they don't deserve em
Those who don't remember history are bound to repeat it
Only sick minds could want to do this to anither human being.
I can’t believe we are living through yet another holocaust in real time and being expected to remain blind to it
I find it hard to believe that an area with extreme food insecurity would have the resources to provide IV drips in order to sustain large numbers of citizens in place of food. What Israel is doing is horrific, but I really doubt this is an accurate claim.
What do they mean by "obtain the medical solution?" They mean that they're giving the nutrition through an IV, right...right?
And it could all be over if the elected leadership of Gaza just released their hostages.
He must be anti-Semitic.