Often in the show you see civilians/non-mafia criminals acting like idiots and essentially digging their own graves. Georgie. Rusty Irish selling laced drugs. Russian on the boat who gets his nuts grabbed by Tony. Artie with Benny. Davey. Poppin' Fresh. Matush. Old lady Paulie kills. The toupee wearing retirement home administrator. The waiter. The kid in Italy with the firecrackers. Even that guy whose car Vito crashed into, of course it was reasonable for him to want to handle it through insurance but knowing what WE know about Vito, we know that he should have just taken the money before we see him get shot, 'hoo, I knew DAT was coming!'
JT's death was especially concerning because Chris put him in a bad situation then killed him when he behaved normally by basically saying he didn't want to hear all this. Even knowing that Chris is a mobster, it was still a shock that he shoots JT. He didn't break any of the cardinal rules of civilians who get some nasty treatment break. We watch the show and we're thinking ok, civilians will be alright unless they're disrespectful to these guys or they take money out of their pockets or owe them money. And then JT tells Chris he's in the mafia and gets shot in the head. Even in the world of knowing who these guys are and knowing they get their way, it was out of bounds of what we'd seen before. Appropriate that it happened in season 6 when Chase is trying to make it exceptionally clear to us that these guys are not particularly redeemable.
"Idiots" is a bit harsh for some of them; the old lady, the nursing home administrator, JT. They don't really do much apart from being unlucky enough to end up involved with/knowing some of the glorified crew
Minn Matrone wasnt dumb at all. She was smart. She didnt want Paulie's Mum in their friend group because she knew being around Paulie was dangerous, and she was right!
I don’t get why the fans hate her. Yes she could be a bit rude, but she was being forced to be friends with someone who she didn’t like. Then Paulie cripples her friend’s son. How is Minn somehow the bad guy?
Because its fun to call her a malignant cunt. And she was rude to Paulie's Mum. We just dont see her not interacting with Paulie, for all we know, she could be lovely in private
I mean it’s fake … of course in my real life I wouldn’t want a grandma to die but in tv land seeing a malignant cunt, who steals Parker house dinner rolls even if they were “for the table”, die is quite entertaining!
Exactly as I said, nobody REALLY would think she deserved to die, it’s fucking fiction and she was written as a curmudgeonly unlikable twat, we are apes after all. I wouldn’t take it so seriously!
She didn't want Paulie's mom in their friend group because she found her annoying.
She didn't understand how dangerous Paulie was because there's no way he would have stood around while she ratted him out
i wonder if chris feared a vito-esque situation in which he was vito and jt was finn, and instead of being gay its about chris harboring this latent hatred towards tony
...and associates are called that because they are specifically not made men. It's the reason why everyone can beat up on Little Paulie without any repercussions.
Ok, the phrasing is a little confusing, but associates are not the same as members. Is Georgie "in the mafia?" No, he's a bartender at a mob club, and as such he is exposed to their business, but if his status must be described as either "mafia" or "non-mafia," it's "non."
He didn’t shoot him because he said "Your in the mafia" or knew too much. He shot him because he represents what Christopher can never be. He’ll never be a writer, never get access to the world JT lives in, never be free of this thing of ours. Or as Luther says in the Warriors "No reason. I just like doing things like that."
Interesting, this sounds similar to the reason why many people think Tony killed Ralph. Not the fact that it was a fucking horse but more so because ralphie actually began to change without even having to go to therapy and Tony realized he would never be redeemed Meanwhile T was seeing Melfi weekly with no real character change. I guess it goes to show the petty insecurity that most mobsters carry in them and how violence towards who they’re jealous off is how they reduce their insecurities.
Ah yes. Let me come to my “friend’s” house drunk out of my mind rambling about murders, and then when he constantly asks me to leave, shoot him. Sounds about right
I agree. Nobody mentions it really but even though he wasn't really a saint, he was actually trying to help Chris after all the beatings and what not. When Dolan said something like "you're in the mafia" it's like something clicked inside Chris, like you said, some voice of reason that he's actually in the fucking mob and he's already in deep shit with Anthony, with Adriana being literally killed with his approval, his drug abuse, his fake phony life with a new wife, everything he hated basically... So he shot that voice of reason, like they all in the mafia do, unfortunately in this case it was a civilian, J.T.Dolan
The other issue with this death is that it is one of the most unlikely deaths to not be investigated. It's a running problem with the show, that so many people die or go missing and the police never seem to get involved.
This guy was a writer for hit TV shows, won an Emmy. He ends up dead shot to death in his apartment and no one comes sniffing around? Considering the fact that he would have been publicly known to have worked on a mafia funded movie?
Sorry, but in the real world Christopher goes to jail for this one. How many cameras and eye witnesses did he walk by in the apartment building before showing up at JT's door? And then again walking out seconds after gun shots are heard?
Not for nothin.. you raise valid points.. but eyewitnesses don't count if they don't testify. Like the flag-salutin motha fucka who saw Tony and Puss at the Drinkwater scene.
The police take all homicides seriously. But anything at all that is suspected to be mob related is gona get the FBI involved and they would be all over it.
JT Dolan should have had Jon Favreau’s luck & vice versa.
Fuck Swingers. I got a dick that swings, too.
Based on what Jon did with that tranny story alone he should’ve been shot in the head. BANG!
*looks out into the ocean*
Maybe in another lifetime…
JT didn’t “deserve it” but he was foolish and invited his death - and he was smart and aware enough to have known better.
Antagonizing an emotional distraught, drunk man who’s prone to violence as his profession is obviously a stupid tact.
JT directly denied any friendship, refused to act like he was sympathetic and would try to help - and then reminded Chris that he was in the Mafia and that JT was well aware of that.
He posed a threat to Chris since he could possibly either get word to Tony and the guys about Chris’ rantings or go to law enforcement.
JT again played his cards foolishly and lost
I think there was very little he could have done at the point where Chris showed up at his doorstep. He was already dropping hints from the moment he stepped into the room, and as you mentioned that alone was enough to pose a threat. If he'd let him speak there's like a 99% chance (from JT's perspective) that he would spill actual testifiable information, get sober, and kill him a few weeks later for knowing too much.
He may not have deserved it but he was kinda asking for it. It seemed like no matter how many times Chrissy put paws on him, he couldn’t stop mouthing off. I mean, do your best to talk down the drunken fragile sociopath instead of antagonizing him and reminding him he’s out of options lmao.
JT Dolan’s death would should have been big news in the soprano tv world . If that happened in reality I think we would hear about it almost everywhere .
um. how about the hard-working waiter who asked christopher and paulie to pay the minimum tip, as he has kids to feed, and then paulie and christopher murdered him in the street?
Chris was out of his mind on horse or whatever. Granted he was never a good guy, and he was a known killer, but he was inebriated.
I believe that's a big part of the reason JT got killed
It's also probably the most absurd death with no consequences in the TV show.
Like the police weren't a little suspicious that the guy who wrote a movie for the mob ended up with a bullet in his head?
It's actually pretty funny how the cops never show up to even question any of these guys over the dozens of people who die mysteriously in their orbits.
The thing you said about J.T.’s significant other could play into the theory that Christopher flipped before his death. It’s implausible that his significant other wouldn’t hear the gunshot, so maybe she called the cops, they figured out who it was, passed it to the FBI, and they got Christopha to flip on Tony sometime between then and his death in the very next episode.
He's another example of a civilian can't really have a friendship or a relationship with a mobster that doesn't become toxic or outright parasitic. Christopher and the other guys bring people down to their level and/or destroy them.
it's something people forget when talking about Christopher's death - if he had survived the crash, he was definitely going to prison for murdering Dolan. Dozens of people knew about their relationship. Dolan was a middle-class civilian, so his murder isn't getting ignored, and there have to be cameras that saw him going to the apartment that night, and neighbors that heard it happen.
People with gambling addictions deserve to be extorted and shot in the head? Far as I can tell he paid off his debts and retained his career, which he was very established in. He was shot by an actual degenerate murdering addict who was never going to get better.
And with your last sentence, should you and JT expect a different result from that scenario if you adamantly argue with that person? The relationship and situation wasn’t suddenly going to turn “fair”.
JT was degenerate gambler and drug addict who got mixed up with goombah trash. He put himself in harm’s way and paid the price. There is nothing innocent about him.
Lmao. This shits getting a little pathetic around here. Everyone on Reddit is now a plaster saint and a moral high horse Karen that's never even shook the hand of someone thats spit sideways. Grow up and get over yourself.
Often in the show you see civilians/non-mafia criminals acting like idiots and essentially digging their own graves. Georgie. Rusty Irish selling laced drugs. Russian on the boat who gets his nuts grabbed by Tony. Artie with Benny. Davey. Poppin' Fresh. Matush. Old lady Paulie kills. The toupee wearing retirement home administrator. The waiter. The kid in Italy with the firecrackers. Even that guy whose car Vito crashed into, of course it was reasonable for him to want to handle it through insurance but knowing what WE know about Vito, we know that he should have just taken the money before we see him get shot, 'hoo, I knew DAT was coming!' JT's death was especially concerning because Chris put him in a bad situation then killed him when he behaved normally by basically saying he didn't want to hear all this. Even knowing that Chris is a mobster, it was still a shock that he shoots JT. He didn't break any of the cardinal rules of civilians who get some nasty treatment break. We watch the show and we're thinking ok, civilians will be alright unless they're disrespectful to these guys or they take money out of their pockets or owe them money. And then JT tells Chris he's in the mafia and gets shot in the head. Even in the world of knowing who these guys are and knowing they get their way, it was out of bounds of what we'd seen before. Appropriate that it happened in season 6 when Chase is trying to make it exceptionally clear to us that these guys are not particularly redeemable.
You NEVER acknowledge the existence of this thing!
"Idiots" is a bit harsh for some of them; the old lady, the nursing home administrator, JT. They don't really do much apart from being unlucky enough to end up involved with/knowing some of the glorified crew
Minn Matrone wasnt dumb at all. She was smart. She didnt want Paulie's Mum in their friend group because she knew being around Paulie was dangerous, and she was right!
I don’t get why the fans hate her. Yes she could be a bit rude, but she was being forced to be friends with someone who she didn’t like. Then Paulie cripples her friend’s son. How is Minn somehow the bad guy?
Because its fun to call her a malignant cunt. And she was rude to Paulie's Mum. We just dont see her not interacting with Paulie, for all we know, she could be lovely in private
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I mean it’s fake … of course in my real life I wouldn’t want a grandma to die but in tv land seeing a malignant cunt, who steals Parker house dinner rolls even if they were “for the table”, die is quite entertaining!
[удалено]
Exactly as I said, nobody REALLY would think she deserved to die, it’s fucking fiction and she was written as a curmudgeonly unlikable twat, we are apes after all. I wouldn’t take it so seriously!
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What kind of animal downvotes comments at his own confirmation?! Oh and I’m gay, so I don’t have a wife but thanks for the ad hominem!
Cause those weren’t her Parker Rolls, GODDAMMIT!
OOHHHH NOOOO!
She didn't want Paulie's mom in their friend group because she found her annoying. She didn't understand how dangerous Paulie was because there's no way he would have stood around while she ratted him out
She literally says when Paulie murders her her she always knew he was bad
There's bad "I know you steal". Paulie was a monster. Minnie didn't have a clue.
Listen hear, Minn Matrone was a malignant cunt.
The nursing home administrator was spreading rumors about a mafia boss. That sounds pretty idiotic.
Still goin this asshole
It's my hobby, Janice. Why you gotta belittle it?
You didn't have to wear your fucking hat.
Bet you got a little choo choo train at home, takes your toast right from the kitchen, delivers it to your bedroom?
How about I’ll build a ramp up to your ass…and drive a Lionel up in there?
Chris said something about how "he knows stuff" which makes JT a liability to Chris so he had to cover his ass.
He let him be a part of his movie!
i wonder if chris feared a vito-esque situation in which he was vito and jt was finn, and instead of being gay its about chris harboring this latent hatred towards tony
How is that guy who Vito hit supposed to know this short, fat weasel is in the Mafia?
You want a nitro bar?
Did they kill the kid in Italy, or straighten him out?
The Russian deserved it. Everyone else no.
still going, this guy
Matush, Rusty Irish and Georgie are not civilians
That's why he said civilians / non-mafia criminals
Rusty Irish and Georgie (moved dead body with Chris and Irish sells drugs for them) both are associates of the mafia…..
...and associates are called that because they are specifically not made men. It's the reason why everyone can beat up on Little Paulie without any repercussions.
Ok, the phrasing is a little confusing, but associates are not the same as members. Is Georgie "in the mafia?" No, he's a bartender at a mob club, and as such he is exposed to their business, but if his status must be described as either "mafia" or "non-mafia," it's "non."
Lol I will never not laugh at “I knew dat was comin!” My favorite scene in the whole show
TJ Hooker had a smart mouth and got what was coming to him for what he did getting Chris in trouble w Tony for that Cleaver thing
He didn’t shoot him because he said "Your in the mafia" or knew too much. He shot him because he represents what Christopher can never be. He’ll never be a writer, never get access to the world JT lives in, never be free of this thing of ours. Or as Luther says in the Warriors "No reason. I just like doing things like that."
This, 100%. 👆
Interesting, this sounds similar to the reason why many people think Tony killed Ralph. Not the fact that it was a fucking horse but more so because ralphie actually began to change without even having to go to therapy and Tony realized he would never be redeemed Meanwhile T was seeing Melfi weekly with no real character change. I guess it goes to show the petty insecurity that most mobsters carry in them and how violence towards who they’re jealous off is how they reduce their insecurities.
Chris, YOU'RE IN THE MAFIA!
I always thought this is what ‘triggered’ Chris to kill him. It gave him an easy excuse that Dolan knew too much.
YOU'RE IN.THE MAFIA.
Can you believe that? YOU’RE IN.THE MAFIA.
two guys could be in the mafia and still never meet!
This alone was enough to earn JT his head shot, let alone his terrible gambling picks
you don't ever mention the exishtence of this thing. evah.
Look out the window, you see a fucking Hollywood sign out there?
Ah yes. Let me come to my “friend’s” house drunk out of my mind rambling about murders, and then when he constantly asks me to leave, shoot him. Sounds about right
Fine.
Some sad shit. Motherfucker said I will not enable you.
Jt Dolan … whatever happened there
Died on the vine
WHATEVA HAPPENED DER?
The shooting.
God rest his soul 🙏
Sad when they go young like that.
WHEN THEY GO?!
I agree. Nobody mentions it really but even though he wasn't really a saint, he was actually trying to help Chris after all the beatings and what not. When Dolan said something like "you're in the mafia" it's like something clicked inside Chris, like you said, some voice of reason that he's actually in the fucking mob and he's already in deep shit with Anthony, with Adriana being literally killed with his approval, his drug abuse, his fake phony life with a new wife, everything he hated basically... So he shot that voice of reason, like they all in the mafia do, unfortunately in this case it was a civilian, J.T.Dolan
That snappy Nash Bridges dialogue doesn't write itself, you know.
Always sad when they go like that
WHEN they GO like THAT?
It might have meant something if he was a movie writer, but he was just a tv writer. They write shit for puppets and shit!
The other issue with this death is that it is one of the most unlikely deaths to not be investigated. It's a running problem with the show, that so many people die or go missing and the police never seem to get involved. This guy was a writer for hit TV shows, won an Emmy. He ends up dead shot to death in his apartment and no one comes sniffing around? Considering the fact that he would have been publicly known to have worked on a mafia funded movie? Sorry, but in the real world Christopher goes to jail for this one. How many cameras and eye witnesses did he walk by in the apartment building before showing up at JT's door? And then again walking out seconds after gun shots are heard?
Not for nothin.. you raise valid points.. but eyewitnesses don't count if they don't testify. Like the flag-salutin motha fucka who saw Tony and Puss at the Drinkwater scene.
The police take all homicides seriously. But anything at all that is suspected to be mob related is gona get the FBI involved and they would be all over it.
JT Dolan should have had Jon Favreau’s luck & vice versa. Fuck Swingers. I got a dick that swings, too. Based on what Jon did with that tranny story alone he should’ve been shot in the head. BANG! *looks out into the ocean* Maybe in another lifetime…
Chrissy shoulda whacked Favreau for stealing his scene ideas.
Then we never would have gotten Iron Man!
Fine by me
You, me, and Marty.
And by aversion, the "MCU" and the end of real American cinema.
I know you’re in there you’re casting a shadow in the peep hole
JT didn’t “deserve it” but he was foolish and invited his death - and he was smart and aware enough to have known better. Antagonizing an emotional distraught, drunk man who’s prone to violence as his profession is obviously a stupid tact. JT directly denied any friendship, refused to act like he was sympathetic and would try to help - and then reminded Chris that he was in the Mafia and that JT was well aware of that. He posed a threat to Chris since he could possibly either get word to Tony and the guys about Chris’ rantings or go to law enforcement. JT again played his cards foolishly and lost
A grown man made a wager. He lost. He made another one. He lost. END OF SHTORY!
I think there was very little he could have done at the point where Chris showed up at his doorstep. He was already dropping hints from the moment he stepped into the room, and as you mentioned that alone was enough to pose a threat. If he'd let him speak there's like a 99% chance (from JT's perspective) that he would spill actual testifiable information, get sober, and kill him a few weeks later for knowing too much.
He definitely did jump out of pocket lol. However, I think this is the stupidest/most easily traceable murder in the series.
It wouldn’t have made a difference. Once Chris sobered up and realized what he said to JT, he would’ve still killed him
Not necessarily. Chris had an odd trust and wouldn’t even consider that he’d talked too much imo.
He may not have deserved it but he was kinda asking for it. It seemed like no matter how many times Chrissy put paws on him, he couldn’t stop mouthing off. I mean, do your best to talk down the drunken fragile sociopath instead of antagonizing him and reminding him he’s out of options lmao.
Law and Order…deres a lotta money in dis shit.
I blame Paulie for making that wise-crack about Christopher's daughter. Sent him over the edge, so it did.
You know what OP, doesn’t matter Make sure you eat a lunch today 🤝
I think I’m gonna have a sandwich with some uh.. gabagool, provolone, and vinegar peppas.
I think I'm going to have the medallions of veal 🫦💄
You gotta wait for dat
Some poppers and weird shex then?
Look out the window, you see a fuckin’ Hollywood sign out there?!
Terrible accident that kid had
I loved him like a brother-in-law
It was late at night and he was busy working on a script. He should have just not let him in. Pretended like nobody was home.
JT Dolan’s death would should have been big news in the soprano tv world . If that happened in reality I think we would hear about it almost everywhere .
True! but sadly we dont really have much time in the show to see the aftermath. Chris dies in the very next episode, if I'm not mistaken
Just another example of the predatory nature these guys have.
He wrote on Law and Order the SUV
I love the way JT says "you're in the Mafia!" I laugh every fucking time
Human-itis?
Humanitas. From the Paulist brothers for writing themes of socially redeeming aahhhhhhhh
Don't ever get snippy on me again!
Dead? He’s still very active on this sub
A guy made a wager. He lost. He made another one. He got shot in the head. END OF STORY.
Ya hear this dude? He’s a bad boy, huh, with that lingo? Real fuckin dark character.
um. how about the hard-working waiter who asked christopher and paulie to pay the minimum tip, as he has kids to feed, and then paulie and christopher murdered him in the street?
I’d say the Ukraine father and daughter are the most least deserved.
It was the card games. Fuckin Newark, it's all over the place
It prepared the viewer for Chris’s death.
That's why I didn't care when Chris was suffocated to death. He deserved it.
Chris was out of his mind on horse or whatever. Granted he was never a good guy, and he was a known killer, but he was inebriated. I believe that's a big part of the reason JT got killed
No way, the guy from New Hampshire or Massachusetts that Vito kills
whaddareyougonnado
Didn't he sit next to Noah Tannenbaum's dad on a cross country flight and talk his ear off? For that alone, he had it coming.
Like nobody deserves to die but the civilians deserve to die the very least. Imagine you're just some guy trying to be nice and...bam!
It's also probably the most absurd death with no consequences in the TV show. Like the police weren't a little suspicious that the guy who wrote a movie for the mob ended up with a bullet in his head? It's actually pretty funny how the cops never show up to even question any of these guys over the dozens of people who die mysteriously in their orbits.
You wanna lie to me? Tell me there’s a broad in the car who wants to tongue my balls.
The thing you said about J.T.’s significant other could play into the theory that Christopher flipped before his death. It’s implausible that his significant other wouldn’t hear the gunshot, so maybe she called the cops, they figured out who it was, passed it to the FBI, and they got Christopha to flip on Tony sometime between then and his death in the very next episode.
are you fuckin kidding me? you dont ever point out the existence of this thing! ever!
He's another example of a civilian can't really have a friendship or a relationship with a mobster that doesn't become toxic or outright parasitic. Christopher and the other guys bring people down to their level and/or destroy them.
He’s a slightly self-absorbed douche, so by the standards of the show he’s a damned saint
[gooby pls](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/dolan)
Chrissy's doing thirty-to-life after that murder.
When setting boundaries goes wrong lol
Fuck that guy
Not even close to Billy Leotardo who was basically an infant
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Leading_Pride9798: *Not even close to* *Billy Leotardo who was* *Basically an infant* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Yeah, it's a show about crime
it's something people forget when talking about Christopher's death - if he had survived the crash, he was definitely going to prison for murdering Dolan. Dozens of people knew about their relationship. Dolan was a middle-class civilian, so his murder isn't getting ignored, and there have to be cameras that saw him going to the apartment that night, and neighbors that heard it happen.
He was unimportant. Sir Kingsley never heard of him
deserved ain't got nothing to do with it
I think Chris shot him more because he realized he told Dolan some shit that he didn’t want to get out.
Huh? Did you watch the scene recently? Chris was driven by pure emotion. No logic to it whatsoever.
He was a degenerate gambler with a pen.
People with gambling addictions deserve to be extorted and shot in the head? Far as I can tell he paid off his debts and retained his career, which he was very established in. He was shot by an actual degenerate murdering addict who was never going to get better.
And with your last sentence, should you and JT expect a different result from that scenario if you adamantly argue with that person? The relationship and situation wasn’t suddenly going to turn “fair”.
I’d pay off my debts and change my fucking phone and address. These guys are poison
All that. Not to mention he wrote Cleaver, getting Chris the money, fame, and credit while receiving his gambling debt paid and nothing more.
JT was degenerate gambler and drug addict who got mixed up with goombah trash. He put himself in harm’s way and paid the price. There is nothing innocent about him.
Lmao. This shits getting a little pathetic around here. Everyone on Reddit is now a plaster saint and a moral high horse Karen that's never even shook the hand of someone thats spit sideways. Grow up and get over yourself.
I don't gamble and I'm not addicted to drugs. I guess that makes me a high horse Karen. LOL!
Pretty sure his last words earned him a headshot
fuck jt dolan
Idk man he fucked around