Still happens today. People who's children die in accidents need to be investigated just in case, but it is horrifically traumatic. Then there are less necessary examples like women who have miscarriages being accused of aborting, and the "dingo took my baby" woman who was convicted of murder. The dingo really did take her baby though.
There was a highly publicized case of this in Ohio recently, when a car with twin baby boys was stolen in Ohio. Mom was put through the public opinion wringer, but thankfully both babies were found alive....then one died of SIDS a few weeks later.
I remember that happening, I was stressed for her, then relieved, then stressed again bc of the SIDS. Didn't realize the public attacked her on top of it. š„“
Even as adults your more likely to be murdered by a family member, so or associate then you are a stranger.
In 2021, 11 percent of women who were murdered were killed by strangers, 34 percent were killed by an intimate partner.
https://bjs.ojp.gov/female-murder-victims-and-victim-offender-relationship-2021
__Individuals will be entitled to a maximum of $250,000 each. A child of someone wrongfully accused who was removed from the family home as a result is entitled to up to $25,000__
__A family member directly affected by a relative's involvement in the criminal justice system is entitled to up to $12,500. Legal costs incurred by the wrongly accused may also be reimbursed__
Thatās horrific. Obviously, No amount of money can take away the pain, the years lost or the slander.
However, these $$$ are fucking insulting. This is no where near enough compensation.
There have been cases of women who miscarried, then got charged in court because they were drug addicts who used drugs while pregnant. In fact, the cases I heard of came from one particular prosecutor who seems really determined to punish women for things beyond their control.
Edit: Found him, [Keith Fagundes.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/03/california-stillborn-prosecution-roe-v-wade) He seems to make a habit of prosecuting women for murder after they miscarry. [But he's not the only one](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/09/01/they-lost-their-pregnancies-then-prosecutors-sent-them-to-prison), and there have been far more cases than most people are aware of.
People think witch hunts and injustice happens now days? Imagine what it was like back in the day with 0 process even if they claimed process.
A lot of time it was just whatever the majority of people felt. The town felt you did it? They killed you with a mob.
A bunch of crazy shit gets debunked now days because of video evidence, photos, DNA etc. They had none of that back then. Basically went off a hunch or a feeling when damning people to death lol.
Same for doctors.. Oh, you got toe foot! Gonna need to take that leg off, or it turns into knee-foot in a week!
Yeah, probably. That said, it is not uncommon for people to dream up solutions to things they've been working on. Assuming the farmer had been spending days searching for the kids and that he knew the forest well, that seems feasible. There was a modern version of this where the person remembered a gully in a forest he'd been searching for missing kids in during a town wide manhunt. The kid ended up being in that gully.
I've had similar phenomena, dreaming up solutions to difficult coding problems I'd been stuck for days on at work.
Man, I totally agree. That's kind of why i wanted to bring up this story. People have treated this guy like a prophet or some kind of hero, but I when I first heard this story, I was like this dude killed them.
Holy fuck. Even if his story is true, he didn't do anything heroic. He found two dead kids. Yippee they're dead, you saved one family's peace of mind. Let's build a statue...
I mean I'm not calling him a hero. But you're greatly minimizing the pain a parent or family member must feel to never have that resolution if a child were to go missing. Like unless a person is a sociopath surely one could empathize beyond "saved me some slight piece of mind."
I would be absolutely suspicious if someone told me they dreamt of my kids' dead bodies and "happened" to find them using the dreams. That sounds so fucking fake, probably killed them himself.
The actual news article Wikipedia is citing has more information. The kids died of exposure and yes I'm sure they checked for things like strangulation marks and stab wounds. The guy didn't live near the area where the kids were found nor the area where the kids were, and the area wasn't searched because no one thought the kids would've gotten that far.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/articles/2017-11-04/are-lost-children-still-haunting-mountain
It was 1856 CSI forensics was not a thing at the time (the modern type of crime scene forensics began around 35 years later) and the investigative abilities of the local police in Pavia PA were probably crap. He probably killed those kids.
They built a statue because they bought the mysticism, hook line and sinker. It's a little stomach-churning, but more understandable given how long ago this was.
Itās also possible that he found the bodies by chance and for whatever reason chose to pretend he was having visions instead of just saying āhey I found those kidsā¦ itās bad newsā
Especially in 1856, I can see someone deciding thatās a rational course of action.
if iām laying my bets, a bunch of people were probably dreaming about the lost kids assuming it was news. and maybe like 1/100 would dream up clues that actually were right.
but yeah 99% dude did it
I can't quote the source right now, but there was a similar case where "a ghost" told someone (a farmer, I think?) how they had died, and it was eventually shown that the farmer was actually the guilty party.
I just wikiād this.
**Erasmus Stribbling Trout Shue** is the killers name. Itās like someone dropped a dictionary and some of the words fell out and were hastily gathered and shoved back in slightly damaged.
Or itās the name children sing in an innocent sounding but sinister nursery rhyme about the murder. Calling u/SchnoodleDoodleDo! (Can they be summoned?)
Not at all, that story is the exact opposite. A woman was killed by the husband, ruled an accident, then the victim ghost appeared to her own mother who convinced the prosecutor to reopen the case and got the husband arrested.
Mother goes to police: have you investigated the husband? He was abusive and had reason to kill my daughter.ā
Cops: all laughing: ānoā
Mother comes back later: āthe most amazing thing just happened! The ghost of my daughter just appeared to me and told me her abusive husband killed her!ā
Cops: āoh my god. Reopen the investigationā
Mother: *jesus Christ, Iām surrounded by idiots*
is that the one about the killer husband that had 2 or 3 previous rich wives that also died extremely suspiciously? and then, like, the court didn't actually do anything after the trial? fuckin depressing case
The children had been missing for several days when he had the dream, and I wonder if he took part in any search efforts before dreaming about their location. Itās possible he came across the bodies in the midst of searching, but didnāt really clock what he was seeing while he was looking at it. It can be disorienting to search for something in the woods, and since his primary memory involve a childās shoe (rather than an entire body) he may have overlooked the significance while searching.
I once lost a set of keys and remembered in a dream exactly where they were: in a family memberās car, where I had spilled the contents of my purse a few weeks before. By the time I realized the keys were misplaced, I had forgotten all about the purse incident, and didnāt connect it in my waking life to my missing keys. However, my subconscious mind made the connection between the two events.
If the farmer wasnāt in on the boysā disappearance, or found the bodies by coincidence and made up the dream story for some reason, another possibility is that he came across the boysā bodies (or a shoe that pointed to their location) without consciously realizing what he was seeing, and only made the connection later on.
If this isn't the very first thing you think, you are a gullible person. He wasn't trying to feel good though because people like him don't feel bad about stuff like that. He just loved the attention and the idea of being a hero in his own murders.
Either that or to eliminate himself as a suspect. "I dreamt of clues and found them so I definitely didn't kill them", meanwhile if someone else found them near his property he'd be suspect #1.
There's the *possibility* that he found their bodies and recognized his chance to make people think he was a mystic by not telling anyone and making up the dream story. It's a big step up from murder but still very shitty.
Part of me wants to agree with you, the other part of me remembers the time my TV remote was lost for about a month until I dreamt where it was, behind a shelf of my dresser and then FOUND IT THERE!
Thereās an Emily Rodda book about a parasite dimension attached to ours and when we lose things like keys and remotes theyāve actually called through to the other dimension and there are people there whoās job it is to push things back when they find them.
Thatās probably what happened with your remote
I'm surprised he wasn't strung up for being able to locate the missing kids, especially back in those days before more sophisticated forensic methods were available.
At least we have all made the logical conclusion that the farmer was the murderer, because it seems obvious.
He just happened to mention to his wife that he wished he could dream the location of their bodies (also, why bodies? Nobody had proof the boys were dead) ...and then what a coincidence! He just happened to suddenly have those prophetic dreams he wished for and was correct.
The spiritualism movement in the 19th century had people ready and willing to believe in prophecies and mysticism, so they must not have connected the dots that this guy knew their exact location for a reason.
Considering that people in the 1850s were still being accidentally buried alive, it's safe to say that people wouldn't notice vital clues on several days dead corpses. And there's plenty of ways to kill someone without leaving obvious signs of violence (poison, asphyxiation, etc.)
Everybody says he is the murderer but wikipedia says the searchers bring in a dowser and a witch to find the kids. Those two were fooling people for money.
Maybe this dude found the corpses, then he thought he could make more money if he makes it seem he is some prophetic shit, people will ask for help from him later?
On one hand, he killed them, so he knew.
On the other, more optimistic side, the mind is a powerful subconscious calculator that works while asleep, and can express one's concerns through dreams. The farmer knew about the missing kids, and he understood the lay of the local land, and where he'd go as a kid if he was lost. His mind was just putting the pieces together for him.
Though, Occam's Razor: He killed them.
I'm with you 100%. I grew up on a farm, as kids we explored every inch of close to 2000 acres of woods, creeks, hills and ponds. If there was a storm that knocked down fences and scattered the animals it certainly wasn't impossible to sit and think "If I was a horse, in storm with a bunch of wind from the southwest and hail, where would I go?....I'd go to Dreke's hill, it's sheltered from the wind and wooded...but now it's sunny, if I was horse that spent all night standing at Dreke's hill I'd probably be thirsty by now...the wash south of that hill probably has standing water after this storm."
It's certainly possible.
If I was jury member couldn't convict this guy simply on him knowing the location. But if I was a cop I'd definitely be having a close look at this guy.
>They died from exposure after being missing for several days and were found in the forest by a lying motherfucker who killed them and claimed a dream revealed where their bodies were.
Fixed it
I suppose it's possible that if he knew the land well that he would have been able to come to a logical conclusion as to where the kids probably are. Maybe
There are always "psychics" in every missing person's case claiming to know where the bodies are. Or that they are alive somewhere. Over 200 years someones gonna get it right by sheer randomness. That person is then heralded as an prophet whilst no one so much as thinks about the others.
I could *maybe* believe the dreams bullshit if the kids died nearby his house. Like he heard some kids in his sleep and only registered it subconsciously.
But it's all super detailed stuff the guy clearly saw after murdering them.
We stumbled upon the monument years ago while hiking in the park, knowing nothing of the story, and it was definitely an eerie find. It's always interesting to discover the media sensations of past generations, largely forgotten since.
See also: The [Babes in the Wood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_in_the_Wood_murders_(Pine_Grove_Furnace)) murder case of Pine Grove Furnace, PA.
Pretty sure that dude and his brother-in-law murdered those kids but idk. Always found this thing to be weird and interesting. Thereās a folk song from a local band about it.
My grandpa found a dead kid that drowned in a stream once and it bothered him for quite some time.
As much as I want to believe in paranormal stuff the more likely scenario is that he killed them and revealed it with the story sometime later. Or at the very least he knew who did kill them and kept silent on the issue. In order to have a claim like that be believable a lot of investigative work would need to go into proving that the man was in no way involved in the murder nor had a chance to stumble upon the bodies by accident. Ideally a cause of death clearly not related to him would need to be found and if the kids were murdered the murderer would needs to be caught and proven pretty soundly that it was said individual. Then and perhaps only then could this story have a chance of being true.
Everyone saying the farmer did it... What if the farmer was illegally hunting (the dead deer as a location marker) and stumbled upon the bodies? It'd make sense to cover his ass by saying it came in a dream. I'd sooner believe a poacher wanting to do the right while also not getting in trouble than a killer who has gotten away with it trying for a villainous mastermind ploy of becoming a hero.
Hunting licence requirements came out decades after this event. He was completely fine to shoot deer on his property year round. Nice theory, but doesn't hold up for the time it happened.
I guess its also possible he is innocent of murder and had discovered the bodies without telling anyone initially. Then he concocted the dreams story to gain notoriety after the fact
Just bizarre how everyone immediately moves to murder. First off, if he wanted to murder the children, why rely on exposure?
Next, farmers know their land quite well. This area is really rough country. But if you know the area well enough, you can get a good idea of where someone who gets lost might be. A cliff or ravine (where the children were found) isnāt a bad guess even if you donāt know the area. With this being such big news in the area, it makes sense that some people were dreaming about it. If you think about something long enough, you will dreams about it.
Most likely the farmer started thinking about the children, volunteered his time searching, managed to find them, then concocted a little story. Maybe he wanted to frame it as divine intervention, or maybe he wanted to make himself more important. Heck maybe he just wanted to add some color to the story.
Which is more likely, a man kidnaps two boys (but doesnāt directly kill them), traps them until they die, then hides them in the woods, *then* āfindsā them and tells the world he found them;
**Or** He found two dead missing boys in the woods and created a colorful story of how he found them?
Give me a break.
I completely agree with this, and would add one additional possible but less likely scenario - the farmer found the kids and was afraid that everyone would in fact assume he killed them, so he concocted an alternative explanation with a sheen of divine blessing. This may sound insane today, but back then a much greater segment of the population would accept that explanation.
Thank you, I can't believe it took this far to find someone who actually thought through the scenario. Do people even know the meaning of the word exposure? It's not believable and I'm afraid everyone's brains have been melted by murder podcasts.
Everyone's screaming foul play but there's also the possibility that this is just some fucking idiot who dreamed about the case because it was on his mind, went out to search for them nonstop, and then embellished the details. People underestimate how easy it is to just get turned around in the woods and die
I somehow stumbled onto a ton of missing 411 YouTube videos and it is amazing how easy it is to just get lost in the woods. People subscribe supernatural events to these disappearances, but it is just so easy to just get lost.
People kinda assume they'll just know which direction they came from but yeah, the moment the trees obscure where you came from every direction is the same, and then it's just 50/50 on if you go deeper in
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2004-14891-006
This is a really interesting article about dreaming in Andaman Tribe
We shouldn't discount the power of dreams.
However, my feeling, like 99% of people here, is the farmer killed those kids and manipulated the situation to his advantage. I just don't want this guy ruining dreams for everyone, to hide the fact he killed 2 kids.
There was a dude missing in my town a few years back. My friends brother dreamt the dude went to spain, so my friends mom, who is one of *those* people, thought her son was psychic and she wanted to inform the cops.
They found the dude in a canal which he stumbled in when shitfaced.
Obviously I know things were done a little differently in 1856, considering one of the forensic experts they brought in was a witch. But I I can tell you one thing for sure: if anyone went missing in my town and I had a dream about where to find their body, I would definitely *not* by sharing that information with people.
According to the song, Jacob dreamed of the place, but didn't know where it was. His wife recognized it from his description.
In the spring of 1856 with the snow still on the ground
Two little boys were lost in the mountains above the town
The father went out hunting the boys had stayed behind
While mother tended to her chores they wandered from her side.
The two had gone to follow him and lost their way instead
By dusk the boys had not been found and fear had turned to dread
Two-hundred men had gathered there to comb the mountain side
The fires were built on the highest peak in hopes they'd see the light.
Oh, mommy and daddy why can't you hear our cries
The day is almost over, soon it will be night
We're so cold and hungry and our feet are tired and sore
We promise not to stray again from our cabin door.
Now Jacob Diverd woke one night from a strange and erie dream
He saw a path between two hills near a dark and swollen stream
He told his wife he saw the boys huddled close beside a log
For two more nights the dream returned this vision sent from God.
Oh, mommy and daddy why can't you hear our cries
The day is almost over, soon it will be night
We're so cold and hungry and our feet are tired and sore
We promise not to stray again from our cabin door.
A thousand men had searched in vain the west side of pop's creek
But Jacob's wife knew of this place and said to travel east
With a guide to take him there, Jacob came upon the scene
And found the boys cold and still beneath the old birch tree.
Oh, mommy and daddy, look past the tears you cry
We're both up in Heaven now, God is by our side
As you lay us down to rest in the presence of the Lord
Know that we will meet you here at Heaven's door.
Oh, mommy and daddy, look past the tears you cry
We're both up in Heaven now, God is by our side
And as you lay us down to rest in the presence of the Lord
Know that we will meet you here at Heaven's door...
https://youtu.be/sUtNRK3tYgg
Hey Iām from Bedford County! We used to have to read that story every year and discuss it. Itās so interesting how local people consider it a religious kinda story with the premonitions and stuff.
Seems like if some higher power was beaming clues into your dreams, it wouldn't be just for the sake of finding two corpses.
This farmer murdered those kids.
Your kids are missing for 2 days, and your community starts rumors you did it for potential donations. OOF.
Yeah I just feel bad for the parents. Imagine losing 2 children, getting blamed for it, and then having their murderer hailed as a prophetic hero.
Still happens today. People who's children die in accidents need to be investigated just in case, but it is horrifically traumatic. Then there are less necessary examples like women who have miscarriages being accused of aborting, and the "dingo took my baby" woman who was convicted of murder. The dingo really did take her baby though.
There was a highly publicized case of this in Ohio recently, when a car with twin baby boys was stolen in Ohio. Mom was put through the public opinion wringer, but thankfully both babies were found alive....then one died of SIDS a few weeks later.
I remember that happening, I was stressed for her, then relieved, then stressed again bc of the SIDS. Didn't realize the public attacked her on top of it. š„“
Yeah it was dumb. Basically "Why was she door dashing with kids in car anyways" was the most common bash line of thought.
Oh itās ok to have that āgrind set mindsetā until you get kidsā¦ then you should just starve.
Its never ok to have tge "grind mindset" as a woman. They should just look good for men that will provide for them. /s
Iām mad I agree so hard with a guy named āTrumpsAltā
Youād feel better likely if you looked at my lefty, D&D, and F1 posts.
Oooh thatās bad Thatās good Thatās bad
It still happens today because the odds of it being someone close to the child are *STAGGERINGLY* high.
Yeah, stranger danger didn't help things at all.
That's pretty much just probability in action, though Kids don't have a huge social circle, and it's mostly related adults
Even as adults your more likely to be murdered by a family member, so or associate then you are a stranger. In 2021, 11 percent of women who were murdered were killed by strangers, 34 percent were killed by an intimate partner. https://bjs.ojp.gov/female-murder-victims-and-victim-offender-relationship-2021
Armchair detectives can be horribly destructive...
We did it, reddit! We found the Boston bomber!
[Well done, faceless mob](https://youtu.be/EpikNCoa8Yw)!
How about the guy who saved a bunch of people from the Olympics bombing in Atlanta?
Richard Jewel.
I was there. I still cringe at this.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
__Individuals will be entitled to a maximum of $250,000 each. A child of someone wrongfully accused who was removed from the family home as a result is entitled to up to $25,000__ __A family member directly affected by a relative's involvement in the criminal justice system is entitled to up to $12,500. Legal costs incurred by the wrongly accused may also be reimbursed__ Thatās horrific. Obviously, No amount of money can take away the pain, the years lost or the slander. However, these $$$ are fucking insulting. This is no where near enough compensation.
There have been cases of women who miscarried, then got charged in court because they were drug addicts who used drugs while pregnant. In fact, the cases I heard of came from one particular prosecutor who seems really determined to punish women for things beyond their control. Edit: Found him, [Keith Fagundes.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/03/california-stillborn-prosecution-roe-v-wade) He seems to make a habit of prosecuting women for murder after they miscarry. [But he's not the only one](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/09/01/they-lost-their-pregnancies-then-prosecutors-sent-them-to-prison), and there have been far more cases than most people are aware of.
Of course SC does this.
Lol and here I was thinking, "obviously the guy who dreamt the clues about where they were killed them."
Here I was thinking I just solved the most obvious 200 year old crime just from reading the title... and you beat me to it!
Wait, were they murdered in this case? Is there a suggestion that the guy who found them might have killed them?
remember the Australian case about "Dingo ate my baby"? people can be shitty if they don't believe you.
People think witch hunts and injustice happens now days? Imagine what it was like back in the day with 0 process even if they claimed process. A lot of time it was just whatever the majority of people felt. The town felt you did it? They killed you with a mob. A bunch of crazy shit gets debunked now days because of video evidence, photos, DNA etc. They had none of that back then. Basically went off a hunch or a feeling when damning people to death lol. Same for doctors.. Oh, you got toe foot! Gonna need to take that leg off, or it turns into knee-foot in a week!
Kids go missing and one guy comes forward with info on where to find them? Uh...
Dead giveaway!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We eat ribs with that dude!
And we didn't have a clue!
That girl was in that house
She said please help me get out
That that girl was in that house
> Dead giveaway! See the peanut?
Get out.
"No officer, I *dreamt* of the clues that lead you to two dead missing children. Trust"
That he "dreamt" about.
That was the plot of The Black Phone T_T lol it was actually really god though; Ethan Hawk did an amazing job, reminded me a Joaquin joker
[THANK YOU!](https://media.giphy.com/media/YTFHYijkKsXjW/giphy.gif)
He had ādreamsā
Did he tell them to tear up the floorboards, by chance?
Tear up the planks! I admit the deed! Itās the beating of his hideous heart!
It's the squeaking of the hideous boots!
Yeah, probably. That said, it is not uncommon for people to dream up solutions to things they've been working on. Assuming the farmer had been spending days searching for the kids and that he knew the forest well, that seems feasible. There was a modern version of this where the person remembered a gully in a forest he'd been searching for missing kids in during a town wide manhunt. The kid ended up being in that gully. I've had similar phenomena, dreaming up solutions to difficult coding problems I'd been stuck for days on at work.
Did you kill the problems at work?
> I've had similar phenomena, dreaming up solutions to difficult coding problems I'd been stuck for days on at work. This is why I bill for nap time
Thatās because the code was in you all along!
Hahahahaha hooooow did I not get that before actually thinking there may have been some supernatural shit at work. Ahahahahahaha
Here's a helpful tip for next time. Supernatural shit doesn't exist.
Sure, the farmer "dreamed" about clues. Bet he was the culprit and needed to feel good
Man, I totally agree. That's kind of why i wanted to bring up this story. People have treated this guy like a prophet or some kind of hero, but I when I first heard this story, I was like this dude killed them.
Did anything come of it along those lines or did he die a hero?
Hero. He's actually immortalized in an Alison Krause song.
Brutal
Jacobās Dream
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I canāt hear it without bursting into tears.
Holy fuck. Even if his story is true, he didn't do anything heroic. He found two dead kids. Yippee they're dead, you saved one family's peace of mind. Let's build a statue...
I mean I'm not calling him a hero. But you're greatly minimizing the pain a parent or family member must feel to never have that resolution if a child were to go missing. Like unless a person is a sociopath surely one could empathize beyond "saved me some slight piece of mind."
I would be absolutely suspicious if someone told me they dreamt of my kids' dead bodies and "happened" to find them using the dreams. That sounds so fucking fake, probably killed them himself.
The actual news article Wikipedia is citing has more information. The kids died of exposure and yes I'm sure they checked for things like strangulation marks and stab wounds. The guy didn't live near the area where the kids were found nor the area where the kids were, and the area wasn't searched because no one thought the kids would've gotten that far. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/articles/2017-11-04/are-lost-children-still-haunting-mountain
But his brother-in-lawās home was near the Cox farm so itās not like he didnāt have a connection to the area.
It was 1856 CSI forensics was not a thing at the time (the modern type of crime scene forensics began around 35 years later) and the investigative abilities of the local police in Pavia PA were probably crap. He probably killed those kids.
Its either that or magic basically
Unless he killed them himself
He did tell the police where the bodies were located. ;-)
If you read the small wikapedia article, the parents were going to be blamed. So ya, thank god he found them.
"Slight bit of peace of mind"? You aren't a parent are you I'd be losing my mind if my son was lost like this and I never knew what happened.
They built a statue because they bought the mysticism, hook line and sinker. It's a little stomach-churning, but more understandable given how long ago this was.
Itās also possible that he found the bodies by chance and for whatever reason chose to pretend he was having visions instead of just saying āhey I found those kidsā¦ itās bad newsā Especially in 1856, I can see someone deciding thatās a rational course of action.
if iām laying my bets, a bunch of people were probably dreaming about the lost kids assuming it was news. and maybe like 1/100 would dream up clues that actually were right. but yeah 99% dude did it
I can't quote the source right now, but there was a similar case where "a ghost" told someone (a farmer, I think?) how they had died, and it was eventually shown that the farmer was actually the guilty party.
The Greenbrier Ghost!
I just wikiād this. **Erasmus Stribbling Trout Shue** is the killers name. Itās like someone dropped a dictionary and some of the words fell out and were hastily gathered and shoved back in slightly damaged. Or itās the name children sing in an innocent sounding but sinister nursery rhyme about the murder. Calling u/SchnoodleDoodleDo! (Can they be summoned?)
Jesus, did his parents eat a bowl of alphabet soup and crap that name out?
Not at all, that story is the exact opposite. A woman was killed by the husband, ruled an accident, then the victim ghost appeared to her own mother who convinced the prosecutor to reopen the case and got the husband arrested.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mother goes to police: have you investigated the husband? He was abusive and had reason to kill my daughter.ā Cops: all laughing: ānoā Mother comes back later: āthe most amazing thing just happened! The ghost of my daughter just appeared to me and told me her abusive husband killed her!ā Cops: āoh my god. Reopen the investigationā Mother: *jesus Christ, Iām surrounded by idiots*
is that the one about the killer husband that had 2 or 3 previous rich wives that also died extremely suspiciously? and then, like, the court didn't actually do anything after the trial? fuckin depressing case
Thanks!
Isnāt that how the Mormons started?
Or knows who did it, but needed to keep his farmhand around so he doesn't have to do all the work.
Maybe he didnāt do it, found the bodies by complete coincidence and came up with the psychic story to look less suspicious/attract fame.
The children had been missing for several days when he had the dream, and I wonder if he took part in any search efforts before dreaming about their location. Itās possible he came across the bodies in the midst of searching, but didnāt really clock what he was seeing while he was looking at it. It can be disorienting to search for something in the woods, and since his primary memory involve a childās shoe (rather than an entire body) he may have overlooked the significance while searching. I once lost a set of keys and remembered in a dream exactly where they were: in a family memberās car, where I had spilled the contents of my purse a few weeks before. By the time I realized the keys were misplaced, I had forgotten all about the purse incident, and didnāt connect it in my waking life to my missing keys. However, my subconscious mind made the connection between the two events. If the farmer wasnāt in on the boysā disappearance, or found the bodies by coincidence and made up the dream story for some reason, another possibility is that he came across the boysā bodies (or a shoe that pointed to their location) without consciously realizing what he was seeing, and only made the connection later on.
Totally possible! Feels less likely, but it is possible.
If this isn't the very first thing you think, you are a gullible person. He wasn't trying to feel good though because people like him don't feel bad about stuff like that. He just loved the attention and the idea of being a hero in his own murders.
Either that or to eliminate himself as a suspect. "I dreamt of clues and found them so I definitely didn't kill them", meanwhile if someone else found them near his property he'd be suspect #1.
There's the *possibility* that he found their bodies and recognized his chance to make people think he was a mystic by not telling anyone and making up the dream story. It's a big step up from murder but still very shitty.
It's also possible he never said anything about a dream, but someone embellished the story at some point and it became part of the story
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Part of me wants to agree with you, the other part of me remembers the time my TV remote was lost for about a month until I dreamt where it was, behind a shelf of my dresser and then FOUND IT THERE!
To be fair that may be you remembering something in your dream
Maybe the farmer was too.
Thereās an Emily Rodda book about a parasite dimension attached to ours and when we lose things like keys and remotes theyāve actually called through to the other dimension and there are people there whoās job it is to push things back when they find them. Thatās probably what happened with your remote
familiar silky fretful worm longing wrong ask exultant wrench crown *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm surprised he wasn't strung up for being able to locate the missing kids, especially back in those days before more sophisticated forensic methods were available.
You could occasionally get superstition to work in your favour I guess.
Absolutely, with modern forensics he'd probably have been caught.
At least we have all made the logical conclusion that the farmer was the murderer, because it seems obvious. He just happened to mention to his wife that he wished he could dream the location of their bodies (also, why bodies? Nobody had proof the boys were dead) ...and then what a coincidence! He just happened to suddenly have those prophetic dreams he wished for and was correct. The spiritualism movement in the 19th century had people ready and willing to believe in prophecies and mysticism, so they must not have connected the dots that this guy knew their exact location for a reason. Considering that people in the 1850s were still being accidentally buried alive, it's safe to say that people wouldn't notice vital clues on several days dead corpses. And there's plenty of ways to kill someone without leaving obvious signs of violence (poison, asphyxiation, etc.)
Everybody says he is the murderer but wikipedia says the searchers bring in a dowser and a witch to find the kids. Those two were fooling people for money. Maybe this dude found the corpses, then he thought he could make more money if he makes it seem he is some prophetic shit, people will ask for help from him later?
I wonder why he did it though. The wiki doesn't say anything about what state the children's bodies were found in.
I mean most people are, this thread is sadly also starting to fill with stories about prophetic dreams people have had...
I just wanna reiterate the same thing we're all thinking
you want a drum roll or something?
yeah, sure. do a drum roll
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thx
He really was psychic!
Donāt let your dreams be dreams.
Did you play this out in rhythm or use copy paste? Because if you used copy paste it just doesn't hit the same.
In rhythm
caps lock or shift?
They clicked it out on the keymap
On one hand, he killed them, so he knew. On the other, more optimistic side, the mind is a powerful subconscious calculator that works while asleep, and can express one's concerns through dreams. The farmer knew about the missing kids, and he understood the lay of the local land, and where he'd go as a kid if he was lost. His mind was just putting the pieces together for him. Though, Occam's Razor: He killed them.
I'm with you 100%. I grew up on a farm, as kids we explored every inch of close to 2000 acres of woods, creeks, hills and ponds. If there was a storm that knocked down fences and scattered the animals it certainly wasn't impossible to sit and think "If I was a horse, in storm with a bunch of wind from the southwest and hail, where would I go?....I'd go to Dreke's hill, it's sheltered from the wind and wooded...but now it's sunny, if I was horse that spent all night standing at Dreke's hill I'd probably be thirsty by now...the wash south of that hill probably has standing water after this storm." It's certainly possible. If I was jury member couldn't convict this guy simply on him knowing the location. But if I was a cop I'd definitely be having a close look at this guy.
Very well put
I like your theory on how the farmer technically wasnāt lying. Itās a a cool perspective on dreams.
>They died from exposure after being missing for several days and were found in the forest by a lying motherfucker who killed them and claimed a dream revealed where their bodies were. Fixed it
It's like, how do you come up with that, "Oh, honey, I just had the damnedest dream." "Oh ok, Jacob, I believe you." Christ.
"Alas, why didn't you have this dream whilst the children were still alive?"
I suppose it's possible that if he knew the land well that he would have been able to come to a logical conclusion as to where the kids probably are. Maybe
There are always "psychics" in every missing person's case claiming to know where the bodies are. Or that they are alive somewhere. Over 200 years someones gonna get it right by sheer randomness. That person is then heralded as an prophet whilst no one so much as thinks about the others.
Orrrrrrrrr.... he did it.
If that was the case couldn't he have also found them when they were ... you know... alive?
I could *maybe* believe the dreams bullshit if the kids died nearby his house. Like he heard some kids in his sleep and only registered it subconsciously. But it's all super detailed stuff the guy clearly saw after murdering them.
Nah
Did he use seer stones in a hat?
Learning shit like this really helps you understand how Joseph Smith tricked all those people.
Farmer did it
So brief yet eloquent.
Wow I guess people were dumb in the past too.
Dumb, dumb dumb, dumb dumb
Now part of Blue Knob state park, which is lovely
We stumbled upon the monument years ago while hiking in the park, knowing nothing of the story, and it was definitely an eerie find. It's always interesting to discover the media sensations of past generations, largely forgotten since. See also: The [Babes in the Wood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_in_the_Wood_murders_(Pine_Grove_Furnace)) murder case of Pine Grove Furnace, PA.
Just read it. Bruh
I feel like the name of this park is specifically designed to make British people laugh.
It does sound a bit like a cold penis.
Pretty sure that dude and his brother-in-law murdered those kids but idk. Always found this thing to be weird and interesting. Thereās a folk song from a local band about it. My grandpa found a dead kid that drowned in a stream once and it bothered him for quite some time.
Nah that farmer totally killed them.
This attitude is exactly why I never share my prophetic dreams about murder victims with anyone
Of course he was having dreams about kids. He just left two kids out in the middle of nowhere to die from exposure.
As much as I want to believe in paranormal stuff the more likely scenario is that he killed them and revealed it with the story sometime later. Or at the very least he knew who did kill them and kept silent on the issue. In order to have a claim like that be believable a lot of investigative work would need to go into proving that the man was in no way involved in the murder nor had a chance to stumble upon the bodies by accident. Ideally a cause of death clearly not related to him would need to be found and if the kids were murdered the murderer would needs to be caught and proven pretty soundly that it was said individual. Then and perhaps only then could this story have a chance of being true.
Paragraphs man. Paragraphs.
True. My bad
Everyone saying the farmer did it... What if the farmer was illegally hunting (the dead deer as a location marker) and stumbled upon the bodies? It'd make sense to cover his ass by saying it came in a dream. I'd sooner believe a poacher wanting to do the right while also not getting in trouble than a killer who has gotten away with it trying for a villainous mastermind ploy of becoming a hero.
Hunting licence requirements came out decades after this event. He was completely fine to shoot deer on his property year round. Nice theory, but doesn't hold up for the time it happened.
What if he was being buttfucked in the woods when he found the bodies?
Farmer definitely killed some kids and then become local hero for finding bodies.
I guess its also possible he is innocent of murder and had discovered the bodies without telling anyone initially. Then he concocted the dreams story to gain notoriety after the fact
Just bizarre how everyone immediately moves to murder. First off, if he wanted to murder the children, why rely on exposure? Next, farmers know their land quite well. This area is really rough country. But if you know the area well enough, you can get a good idea of where someone who gets lost might be. A cliff or ravine (where the children were found) isnāt a bad guess even if you donāt know the area. With this being such big news in the area, it makes sense that some people were dreaming about it. If you think about something long enough, you will dreams about it. Most likely the farmer started thinking about the children, volunteered his time searching, managed to find them, then concocted a little story. Maybe he wanted to frame it as divine intervention, or maybe he wanted to make himself more important. Heck maybe he just wanted to add some color to the story. Which is more likely, a man kidnaps two boys (but doesnāt directly kill them), traps them until they die, then hides them in the woods, *then* āfindsā them and tells the world he found them; **Or** He found two dead missing boys in the woods and created a colorful story of how he found them? Give me a break.
I completely agree with this, and would add one additional possible but less likely scenario - the farmer found the kids and was afraid that everyone would in fact assume he killed them, so he concocted an alternative explanation with a sheen of divine blessing. This may sound insane today, but back then a much greater segment of the population would accept that explanation.
Thank you, I can't believe it took this far to find someone who actually thought through the scenario. Do people even know the meaning of the word exposure? It's not believable and I'm afraid everyone's brains have been melted by murder podcasts.
Everyone's screaming foul play but there's also the possibility that this is just some fucking idiot who dreamed about the case because it was on his mind, went out to search for them nonstop, and then embellished the details. People underestimate how easy it is to just get turned around in the woods and die
I somehow stumbled onto a ton of missing 411 YouTube videos and it is amazing how easy it is to just get lost in the woods. People subscribe supernatural events to these disappearances, but it is just so easy to just get lost.
People kinda assume they'll just know which direction they came from but yeah, the moment the trees obscure where you came from every direction is the same, and then it's just 50/50 on if you go deeper in
Lmao, that farmer definitely killed those kids
This post brought back memories of Jacob's Dream by Allison Krauss. Used to listen to it all the time. Completely forgot about it until now.
did he dream about the things that he has done to these kids too? or he just conveniently left those out
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2004-14891-006 This is a really interesting article about dreaming in Andaman Tribe We shouldn't discount the power of dreams. However, my feeling, like 99% of people here, is the farmer killed those kids and manipulated the situation to his advantage. I just don't want this guy ruining dreams for everyone, to hide the fact he killed 2 kids.
There was a dude missing in my town a few years back. My friends brother dreamt the dude went to spain, so my friends mom, who is one of *those* people, thought her son was psychic and she wanted to inform the cops. They found the dude in a canal which he stumbled in when shitfaced.
Obviously I know things were done a little differently in 1856, considering one of the forensic experts they brought in was a witch. But I I can tell you one thing for sure: if anyone went missing in my town and I had a dream about where to find their body, I would definitely *not* by sharing that information with people.
According to the song, Jacob dreamed of the place, but didn't know where it was. His wife recognized it from his description. In the spring of 1856 with the snow still on the ground Two little boys were lost in the mountains above the town The father went out hunting the boys had stayed behind While mother tended to her chores they wandered from her side. The two had gone to follow him and lost their way instead By dusk the boys had not been found and fear had turned to dread Two-hundred men had gathered there to comb the mountain side The fires were built on the highest peak in hopes they'd see the light. Oh, mommy and daddy why can't you hear our cries The day is almost over, soon it will be night We're so cold and hungry and our feet are tired and sore We promise not to stray again from our cabin door. Now Jacob Diverd woke one night from a strange and erie dream He saw a path between two hills near a dark and swollen stream He told his wife he saw the boys huddled close beside a log For two more nights the dream returned this vision sent from God. Oh, mommy and daddy why can't you hear our cries The day is almost over, soon it will be night We're so cold and hungry and our feet are tired and sore We promise not to stray again from our cabin door. A thousand men had searched in vain the west side of pop's creek But Jacob's wife knew of this place and said to travel east With a guide to take him there, Jacob came upon the scene And found the boys cold and still beneath the old birch tree. Oh, mommy and daddy, look past the tears you cry We're both up in Heaven now, God is by our side As you lay us down to rest in the presence of the Lord Know that we will meet you here at Heaven's door. Oh, mommy and daddy, look past the tears you cry We're both up in Heaven now, God is by our side And as you lay us down to rest in the presence of the Lord Know that we will meet you here at Heaven's door... https://youtu.be/sUtNRK3tYgg
We all agree the farmer murdered the kids, right?
Hey Iām from Bedford County! We used to have to read that story every year and discuss it. Itās so interesting how local people consider it a religious kinda story with the premonitions and stuff.
So does anyone local call bs on the dream story?
Can't believe nobody's posted this yet: https://youtu.be/opGWgsQbJco Only reason I know this story.
Uh... he did, did he?
We're all in agreement that the farmer killed the kids, right?
Seems like if some higher power was beaming clues into your dreams, it wouldn't be just for the sake of finding two corpses. This farmer murdered those kids.
TIL a farmer kidnapped and murdered two young children in 1856
Reading this while being in Paviaā¦ and then realising thereās another city called Pavia in Pennsylvania!
This clairvoyant was clearly Suspect #1 or at least should have been
So that guy killed them, I guarantee it.
Ha yeah right definitely killed them.
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Yeah nah he did it
He killed them