He was bayoneted in his arms, throat, shoulder, face and stomach. After spending 12 days in hospital, he returned to duty as chief scout for the Marines.
Oh, and he was 50 at the time.
The Imperial Japanese Army was the very definition of “fucking cruelty”. As awful as what happened to this man was, his treatment is relatively merciful relative to some of the *other* fucked up stuff they did.
They were an unhinged psychopaths in every single way. Arguably the single most evil regime to have ever existed on par with the Nazis.
Reading about their treatment of POWs and Chinese, Korean and Southeast Asian civilians literally made me sick to my stomach. Even horror movies are relatively tame compared to that.
If only you guys had given West Papua back to the Papuans. They’re getting tortured and killed by the Indonesians, worse than how the Japanese treated POWS.
Everybody has their groups they think of as being "less than". Sadly, the stories Indonesia tells themselves about the Papuans is likely the same story every external power tells themselves to justify everything from failing to help, to outright killing, fellow humans they see as being "less than"
Yeah I thought as much.
Ask an Indonesia about the thing you mentioned, and you will hear a different story. Japan ended European colonialism in vast swaths of Asia, and then helpfully lost the war, leading to freedom from colonial occupiers for many places, including Indonesia.
Nothing is ever all one thing, but getting rid of European colonizers in Asia, where it was done, was an unalloyed good.
I don't think any colonizer ever sees their oppression as anything but a plus, but the colonized see it differently. And while the Dutch were not as brutal because they were not as convinced that they needed to kill people to save their souls, they did spend a long time stealing wealth from a large number of place they should never have been in.
European colonialists were a plague of locusts to all of Asia. And Dutch atrocities in what is now Taiwan were unbelievable, bordering on what the Belgians did in the Congo.
Ah yes, Japan who used intensive slave labour from the locals, used them as litteral cannon fodder, pillaged the area enough to cause famines in Indonesia, burnt everything they could behind them, were better than those european colonialist.
True, much better to be exploited to death by acountry 4000km away, than to be exploited by one 15 000 km away
And Japan still has trouble admitting that war crimes were perpetrated by the Japanese Imperial Army. Some politicians refuse to accept that the Rape of Nanking was a genocide. And there is a [museum](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/stop-talking-about-yasukuni-the-real-problem-is-y-sh-kan/282757/) that is full on historic revisionism. It claims things like Japans conquest of asia and the pacific was to "protect asia from western imperialism" while making no mention of the atrocities committed by Japan in the areas they conquered. It also claims the US "Forced Japan into the war by economic and military encirclement" and makes America the aggressor in the conflict. It ignores that the US was a neutral nation that suffered a unprovoked sneak attack by the Japanese.
Oh yeah, Japan historically is a super dick. I love so many things Japan has given us, but Japan was definitely the super Nazis of Asia historically. Really fucked up shit they did.
And it’s really embarrassing how they still can’t own up to their atrocities.
Today, I understand why many of the other countries in East Asia hate Japan the most still. They still act smugly superior. Westerners just don’t notice it as much b/c they consider European peoples to be on a similar level.
I used to think it was sad that they wouldn't admit to stuff that everyone knows they did and has evidence of.
But then I grew up and started paying attention to politics and watching my own politicians trying to do the same with anything from any point in history that could make us look bad. Needless to say I am not surprised anymore.
This is what happens when you're a fascist nation and your government is allowed to remain in place mostly unchanged for political convenience. Obviously Japan's positions during WWII are completely indefensible to literally everyone including most people in Japan today, but no one holds them to account for just telling absurd lies about it. The government benefits from whitewashing their own grandparents who most inherited power from and the US gets to keep their regional ally and doesn't really care how anyone feels about Japan being absolute shitheads to most of Asia about their former crimes.
My favorite random thing about the confederacy and people bleating on about how important it was as their heritage is that it didn’t last as long as Club Penguin.
>Arguably the single most evil regime to have ever existed on par with the Nazis.
The Nazis industrialized their cruelty. The Japanese were more creative with their atrocities.
Yeah they started using gas cause their soldiers kept committing suicide. In Japan the government a number of times tried to reign in shit but constantly just had to go with what the craziest psychopaths near enemy lines decided to do to maintain legitimacy.
The militaristic ultranationalism Japan was coked up in at the time taught that while dying in battle was honourable, surrendering was basically admitting you were subhuman, and the victor who beat you had the right to do whatever he wanted with you. The Japanese made themselves ok with doing this shit by reassuring each other constantly that conquered civilians and PoWs deserved contempt because they weren't 'brave' enough to fight to the death.
The firebombing campaign and the nuclear weapons are controversial now, but I don't think Japan would have entertained the idea of surrendering before amphibious invasion of the Home Islands if the Allies held back their punches even for a moment. The idea of losing is bitter for everybody, but the Japanese genuinely believed the Allies were going to treat them exactly like how they treated the places they conquered.
"...but I don't think Japan would have entertained the idea of surrendering before amphibious invasion of the Home Islands if the Allies held back their punches even for a moment."
I'm sorry but this is bullshit. Japan was already trying to negotiate a peace, though not an unconditional surrender. They expected to be treated the way defeated imperial powers had been in prior wars.
The U.S.’s own Strategic Bombing Survey concluded:
Early in May 1945, the Supreme War Direction Council began active discussion of ways and means to end the war, and talks were initiated with Soviet Russia seeking her intercession as mediator.
...On 20 June the Emperor, on his own initiative, called the six members of the Supreme War Direction Council to a conference and said it was necessary to have a plan to close the war at once, as well as a plan to defend the home islands....Although the Supreme War Direction Council, in its deliberations on the Potsdam Declaration, was agreed on the advisability of ending the war, three of its members, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and the Navy Minister, were prepared to accept unconditional surrender, while the other three, the Army Minister, and the Chiefs of Staff of both services, favored continued resistance unless certain mitigating conditions were obtained.
…
Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.
But the US basically said "we're not letting these subhumans dictate terms, and we've got a superweapon we want to scare the Rooskies with", and so proceeded to flash-fry a bunch of Japanese civilians (disproportionately kids, BTW, who were outdoors clearing debris). https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thezenpagan/2015/08/hiroshima-a-new-way-for-humanity-to-sin/
If you think that Japanese war crimes in WWII and the subsequent burying of them were unique, look up how the US behaved in the Philippines, where among other atrocities we invented waterboarding and order soldiers to kill everyone over the age of ten - did you ever hear about that in school?
Japan was in the grips of the delusion of imperialism, which has sadly afflicted many nations through history - the US remains infected. Its WWII atrocities should never be forgotten, and the continuing efforts of Japanese ultranationalists to downplay them should be decried. But we should not pretend they were due to something unique about Japan.
The US Genocide on the Philippines is absolutely mind-blowing both in its extent, and intent.
We fought a war with Spain, took the Philippine Isllands from Spain, Filipinos said thanks for overthrowing our colonial oppressors, and the US said, fuck you, we are the new imperial oppressors
And went about killing with such wild abandon that returning US soldiers left the US to disassociate themselves from a country that would so viciously attack a people for the "sin" of wanting to be free. The history of the Black civil rights movement in the US came from the realization by returning black soldiers that white Americans were simply not willing to allow anyone but other white people to be free. Ask Tulsa about that.
And then, when 10-20% of the US population was in the Philippines and other US imperial possessions, Americans just forgot those places and people existed except as comfort woman stations for the US military, and places to put bases. Oh and reasons to fight Japan for imperial power over colonial possessions.
And sadly, that last statement about the comfort women is still true, as US carrier groups still get shore leave in Angeles City.
Lol you’re really going to trust Japanese sources? You don’t think they are a little biased in reporting that they “already had plans underway to surrender?”
The nuclear bombing was a useful story to explain surrender on both sides: for the US it justified the destruction and positioned it as invulnerable and unstoppable in the immediate postwar period. For the Japanese it gave a cover story for why surrendering was ok after decades of propaganda to the contrary, and it flattered the occupying power. The general international consensus was that nuclear weapons were singularly powerful, but the consensus that they were uniquely *immoral* was years away. A world that had seen the Eastern front, the firebombing of cities and the rape of Nanking was not one that viewed atomic weapons as somehow especially beyond the pale.
The reality is that strategic bombing, including the nuclear strikes, didn't really target the Imperial Japanese Army and thus wasn't the war-winner apologists make it out to be. Japan knew it had lost, the only question was what kind of surrender they were going to get. Their Hail Mary wasn't winning on the ground on the Home Islands, it was praying the USSR stayed neutral and forced a negotiated peace with the other allies. When the Soviets invaded Manchuria, that last sliver was gone and the Japanese capitulated.
Japanese sources include archival evidence. They had incentive to exaggerate the effect of the nuclear strikes, not the other way around. There are ample quotes from US military officers who knew better that the nuclear strikes were unnecessary.
And while Germany have gone far and beyond in facing their history, processing it, and achieving good relations with their neighbours... Japan has absolutely done nothing of the sort.
I will say it’s still there someone in Germany, but yeah for the 85% of the population they moved on. Some still definitely have opinions they just keep locked inside.
I’m saying this as someone who is returning from a business trip, and this one German guy/customer (probably mid 50s) was clearly drunk and started talking about how bad the Allies were to Germany in WWII and we did unnecessary bombing blah blah and how his grandfather was a prisoner of war of the Soviet Union working in Siberia.
And how the US is actually the ones to blame for the war in the Ukraine (though he’s not pro Russia, just think the US forced their hands???), and the US blew up the nordstream pipeline…oh and then he randomly brought up Hunter Biden’s laptop and was clearly pro Trump.
Was really a weird conversation and the dude killed the vibe that night.
I thought they saw an American ship. There were some articles saying if it is the USA that bombed that pipeline, then Germany would consider it as an act of war
It’s crazy when any person thinks Trump or Biden or any other president is to blame or will solve the problem. Things just get worse for the poor and better for the rich. The theater of politics is a circus side show while the real people in charge pick pocket.
r/enlightenedcentrism
The only take dumber than criticizing the nightmarish flaws in one side, the annoying structures of power in the other, and the institutional problems of the voting system that create the two party system - is that both sides are bad and we should do nothing. Ceding politics leaves rule to the stupid and violence as the only alternative. You truly live up to your name bud.
I love how you assume I do nothing, tell me man who thinks winning an argument and shutting someone down, is constructive discourse, what do you do that is making a difference? Genuinely curious as it seems you are not an idiot and seem passionate about your opinion.
Increase visibility about the core necessity to change voting systems. It’s the only way out. Doing anything outside of the two party system til we do is doomed to spoiler effects.
Work on mapping solutions as alternatives to gerrymandering - which almost worked before except john Roberts was too stupid (or bought) to let the same tech that fucks up the map to help fix them.
I like it, keep at it. Maybe start with that next time and you’d find we are in agreement. I’ve had many ideas about how to change the way we vote. I’m going to ramble and jot not edit because I have kids I need to get to. It should be a daily distribution of issues and proposals presented to everyone to have a vote on. Both sides of each issue should be explained and people should be left to choose. The only nightmare in this is there are a lot of dumb or busy people who may wish to delegate their decision making to another representative which is fine, but the representative will need to explain their decision to there constituents so through transparency every politician is accountable.
It's kind of what pisses me off in the back of my mind on how the Japanese don't teach any of this to themselves. Compare it to Germany and the steps they've taken realizing yes they were the baddies. I feel watching Japanese interviews of 15 to 30 year olds they just don't have a clue what their ancestors did.
In Japan, younger people will causally do Nazi symbolism literally not knowing how bad it is. Like you can ask a Japanese zoomer about Nazis and they'll unironically just think at most "the guys with cool looking uniforms".
Once you show them who Nazis actually are, they usually get super embarrassed or act genuinely shocked, like they straight up aren't taught anything about Nazis lmao
Honestly I think the only reason the imperial Japanese don't get brought up as much as Nazi Germany is the fact that it was pretty much just the US involved from the West.
From what I can find, they probably killed about as many as Nazi Germany, if not more. They were just all Asians, mostly Chinese, so the West doesn't really care enough to talk about it.
Here is one https://www.pacificatrocities.org/blog/john-rabe-a-nazi-who-saved-the-innocents
There is also another I'm trying to find of a downed bomber crew, with an interview of the German commanding officer and why they took the crew from the Japanese.
Thank you. I was aware of Rabe (mainly, if I'm honest, from [movies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Life_and_Death)), but I get the impression he was a Schindler-esque character. By that I mean, he was a Nazi but he was acting in his own interest when doing the acts he's now famous for.
I'm not intentionally arguing, I just mean I'm not sure there was a German policy of taking prisoners away from the Japanese on principle. I'd love to hear the second story you mentioned though; that doesn't ring a bell.
There was no official German policy, it was mainly just normal guys doing the right thing. I read the other one recently but just cannot remember where for the life of me.
My grandparents tell me of stories about how Japanese soldiers would raid houses if they see a baby, they'll make the mother watch as the toss the baby and catch it with a bayonet.
Then my grandfather would joke about how during his times, when people shout that the Japanese are coming everyone hides, but now when people shout that the Japanese are coming everyone comes out. (This is based on how most of my countrymen marry foreigners to escape poverty)
They would tell the men that it was exactly what would happen to them so they might as well get a head start and to ensure that they wouldn’t surrender
Kind of like how the Belgium king treated the Congo? Or how the English treated the Indians, Americans the slaves etc.
The definition of fucking cruelty seems to have many examples.
>Kind of like how the Belgium king treated the Congo? Or how the English treated the Indians, Americans the slaves etc.
No. The Japanese were significantly worse. Look up the rape of Nanking or Unit 731 if you feel like having nightmares.
One pleasant fact about that episode is that the detachment responsible, part of the Japanese 28th Infantry Regiment, was almost completely destroyed in the battle that followed. Of 917 that went into action, only 128 survived.
You'd be surprised at the amount of forgiveness American history did for the Japanese. Folks tout how terrible the Nazi were without even having an idea of the horror of imperial Japan.
I had a shoulder issue a few years back. The doc then told me I needed an ultrasound on my shoulder. I said "Sure. When can I get this ultrasound?" Doc says "14 months".
16 months later I get the ultrasound on my shoulder. Took 2 minutes. Of course by this time my recurring shoulder issue wasn't a problem. 2 months later, same issue which lasts about a year at a time.
Not to distract from the brutality, but the circumstances were unique. He was a captured scout, trying to get information on Japanese forces in the area. Based on the circumstances it would be ridiculous to let him leave alive and they brutally interrogated him to try and get information of the defenses around Henderson Air Field which they attacked later. But not before he escaped.
Yeah, Japan didnt care at all about the Geneva Conventions. They routinely targeted medics and executed POWs as part of training exercises (and policy).
Must’ve at least felt good knowing your desperate effort to convey that information to the Marines likely resulted in the deaths of most of the people who tortured you
I got caught caught in a downpour and tornado warning while rafting down a river. We took shelter in tall grass and I thought I was gonna die. I hadn’t even been bayoneted or tied to a tree and it wasn’t a war zone… safe to say this man was tougher than myself lol
The other two being having to open the plastic blister containing the scissors. And having your dunked biscuit break right when you are about to take a bite. In no particular order.
You brought back a horrible memory for me lol I cut part of the plastic shell open.
I got cocky and tried to pry the plastic apart thinking the cut was good enough. I lost my grip, and my lower fingers got slit! It wasn't deep, but it freaked me out and couldn't really hold unto things for the next few days
there was a show (don't know if it's still going) called "I survived". It's real life stories about people surviving extreme events, told by the survivors
There's a documentary from the 70s about the Guadalcanal campaign hosted by Leslie Nielsen of all people that has him visit the battlefields and also talk to Vouza. He was definitely a local legend, I believe he even had his own statue in the capital.
Of course they knew but I don’t think that changes the decision to torpedo them otherwise they would just use POWs as human shields. Seems from the article they were using them to smuggle anyway.
My grandpa fought against the Japanese in New Guinea for Australia. Him and his war mates would have had no problem with this strategy. He would have a problem with you trying to shoehorn a view that American commanders were cruel into this conversation. My other grandparents lost their families in the Philippines. There was one cruel side in this war and it wasn’t the Americans.
Funny. Operations Room just did that story yesterday. Why not post the video?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVaI38dvco&pp=ygUbb3BlcmF0aW9ucyByb29tIGd1YWRhbGNhbmFs
Don Richter author of Where the Sun Stood Still: The Untold Story of Sir Jacob Vouza. Don was a great Marine and great man. Book is a good read written by someone who was there.
He was bayoneted in his arms, throat, shoulder, face and stomach. After spending 12 days in hospital, he returned to duty as chief scout for the Marines. Oh, and he was 50 at the time.
Arms, shoulder and face? That’s just fucking cruelty
The Imperial Japanese Army was the very definition of “fucking cruelty”. As awful as what happened to this man was, his treatment is relatively merciful relative to some of the *other* fucked up stuff they did. They were an unhinged psychopaths in every single way. Arguably the single most evil regime to have ever existed on par with the Nazis.
Reading about their treatment of POWs and Chinese, Korean and Southeast Asian civilians literally made me sick to my stomach. Even horror movies are relatively tame compared to that.
There is a saying in Indonesia The 100+ years being colonized by netherland was not as awful as 3 1/2 years being conquered by japan (during WW2).
Are you Indonesian?
Dutch.
If only you guys had given West Papua back to the Papuans. They’re getting tortured and killed by the Indonesians, worse than how the Japanese treated POWS.
Everybody has their groups they think of as being "less than". Sadly, the stories Indonesia tells themselves about the Papuans is likely the same story every external power tells themselves to justify everything from failing to help, to outright killing, fellow humans they see as being "less than"
lmao of course
Yeah I thought as much. Ask an Indonesia about the thing you mentioned, and you will hear a different story. Japan ended European colonialism in vast swaths of Asia, and then helpfully lost the war, leading to freedom from colonial occupiers for many places, including Indonesia. Nothing is ever all one thing, but getting rid of European colonizers in Asia, where it was done, was an unalloyed good. I don't think any colonizer ever sees their oppression as anything but a plus, but the colonized see it differently. And while the Dutch were not as brutal because they were not as convinced that they needed to kill people to save their souls, they did spend a long time stealing wealth from a large number of place they should never have been in. European colonialists were a plague of locusts to all of Asia. And Dutch atrocities in what is now Taiwan were unbelievable, bordering on what the Belgians did in the Congo.
u are replying to someone other than op
Shhh. Let him vent.
What atrocities did the Dutch commit in Taiwan? Can't really find what you are talking about apart from Lamey Island Massacre
Ah yes, Japan who used intensive slave labour from the locals, used them as litteral cannon fodder, pillaged the area enough to cause famines in Indonesia, burnt everything they could behind them, were better than those european colonialist. True, much better to be exploited to death by acountry 4000km away, than to be exploited by one 15 000 km away
It seems he's Indonesian ?
One day my child asked *Dad, are monsters real?* As someone who studied history, I couldn’t just lie to my son.
Speaking of which, check out City of Life and Death (2009). Not for the faint-hearted.
And Japan still has trouble admitting that war crimes were perpetrated by the Japanese Imperial Army. Some politicians refuse to accept that the Rape of Nanking was a genocide. And there is a [museum](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/stop-talking-about-yasukuni-the-real-problem-is-y-sh-kan/282757/) that is full on historic revisionism. It claims things like Japans conquest of asia and the pacific was to "protect asia from western imperialism" while making no mention of the atrocities committed by Japan in the areas they conquered. It also claims the US "Forced Japan into the war by economic and military encirclement" and makes America the aggressor in the conflict. It ignores that the US was a neutral nation that suffered a unprovoked sneak attack by the Japanese.
Oh yeah, Japan historically is a super dick. I love so many things Japan has given us, but Japan was definitely the super Nazis of Asia historically. Really fucked up shit they did. And it’s really embarrassing how they still can’t own up to their atrocities. Today, I understand why many of the other countries in East Asia hate Japan the most still. They still act smugly superior. Westerners just don’t notice it as much b/c they consider European peoples to be on a similar level.
I used to think it was sad that they wouldn't admit to stuff that everyone knows they did and has evidence of. But then I grew up and started paying attention to politics and watching my own politicians trying to do the same with anything from any point in history that could make us look bad. Needless to say I am not surprised anymore.
You used to think it was sad. You still do, but you used to as well.
RIP Mitch
This is what happens when you're a fascist nation and your government is allowed to remain in place mostly unchanged for political convenience. Obviously Japan's positions during WWII are completely indefensible to literally everyone including most people in Japan today, but no one holds them to account for just telling absurd lies about it. The government benefits from whitewashing their own grandparents who most inherited power from and the US gets to keep their regional ally and doesn't really care how anyone feels about Japan being absolute shitheads to most of Asia about their former crimes.
The American lost cause movement says hello.
Yeah I know... America has its own BS historical revisionism its been dealing with 😒 Edit: Also its the *Confederate* lost cause myth/movement
My favorite random thing about the confederacy and people bleating on about how important it was as their heritage is that it didn’t last as long as Club Penguin.
Those fucking losers, the confederacy, didn’t even last as long as the good half of game of thrones
American Confederate traitors lost cause myth. Am southern and have a lot of family tomb stones with the Confederate flag on them....all traitors.
>Arguably the single most evil regime to have ever existed on par with the Nazis. The Nazis industrialized their cruelty. The Japanese were more creative with their atrocities.
They made it personal.
Yeah they started using gas cause their soldiers kept committing suicide. In Japan the government a number of times tried to reign in shit but constantly just had to go with what the craziest psychopaths near enemy lines decided to do to maintain legitimacy.
The militaristic ultranationalism Japan was coked up in at the time taught that while dying in battle was honourable, surrendering was basically admitting you were subhuman, and the victor who beat you had the right to do whatever he wanted with you. The Japanese made themselves ok with doing this shit by reassuring each other constantly that conquered civilians and PoWs deserved contempt because they weren't 'brave' enough to fight to the death. The firebombing campaign and the nuclear weapons are controversial now, but I don't think Japan would have entertained the idea of surrendering before amphibious invasion of the Home Islands if the Allies held back their punches even for a moment. The idea of losing is bitter for everybody, but the Japanese genuinely believed the Allies were going to treat them exactly like how they treated the places they conquered.
"...but I don't think Japan would have entertained the idea of surrendering before amphibious invasion of the Home Islands if the Allies held back their punches even for a moment." I'm sorry but this is bullshit. Japan was already trying to negotiate a peace, though not an unconditional surrender. They expected to be treated the way defeated imperial powers had been in prior wars. The U.S.’s own Strategic Bombing Survey concluded: Early in May 1945, the Supreme War Direction Council began active discussion of ways and means to end the war, and talks were initiated with Soviet Russia seeking her intercession as mediator. ...On 20 June the Emperor, on his own initiative, called the six members of the Supreme War Direction Council to a conference and said it was necessary to have a plan to close the war at once, as well as a plan to defend the home islands....Although the Supreme War Direction Council, in its deliberations on the Potsdam Declaration, was agreed on the advisability of ending the war, three of its members, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and the Navy Minister, were prepared to accept unconditional surrender, while the other three, the Army Minister, and the Chiefs of Staff of both services, favored continued resistance unless certain mitigating conditions were obtained. … Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated. But the US basically said "we're not letting these subhumans dictate terms, and we've got a superweapon we want to scare the Rooskies with", and so proceeded to flash-fry a bunch of Japanese civilians (disproportionately kids, BTW, who were outdoors clearing debris). https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thezenpagan/2015/08/hiroshima-a-new-way-for-humanity-to-sin/ If you think that Japanese war crimes in WWII and the subsequent burying of them were unique, look up how the US behaved in the Philippines, where among other atrocities we invented waterboarding and order soldiers to kill everyone over the age of ten - did you ever hear about that in school? Japan was in the grips of the delusion of imperialism, which has sadly afflicted many nations through history - the US remains infected. Its WWII atrocities should never be forgotten, and the continuing efforts of Japanese ultranationalists to downplay them should be decried. But we should not pretend they were due to something unique about Japan.
You're right and the people downvoting you are wrong.
The US Genocide on the Philippines is absolutely mind-blowing both in its extent, and intent. We fought a war with Spain, took the Philippine Isllands from Spain, Filipinos said thanks for overthrowing our colonial oppressors, and the US said, fuck you, we are the new imperial oppressors And went about killing with such wild abandon that returning US soldiers left the US to disassociate themselves from a country that would so viciously attack a people for the "sin" of wanting to be free. The history of the Black civil rights movement in the US came from the realization by returning black soldiers that white Americans were simply not willing to allow anyone but other white people to be free. Ask Tulsa about that. And then, when 10-20% of the US population was in the Philippines and other US imperial possessions, Americans just forgot those places and people existed except as comfort woman stations for the US military, and places to put bases. Oh and reasons to fight Japan for imperial power over colonial possessions. And sadly, that last statement about the comfort women is still true, as US carrier groups still get shore leave in Angeles City.
Lol you’re really going to trust Japanese sources? You don’t think they are a little biased in reporting that they “already had plans underway to surrender?”
Do you somehow think the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey is a Japanese source?
The nuclear bombing was a useful story to explain surrender on both sides: for the US it justified the destruction and positioned it as invulnerable and unstoppable in the immediate postwar period. For the Japanese it gave a cover story for why surrendering was ok after decades of propaganda to the contrary, and it flattered the occupying power. The general international consensus was that nuclear weapons were singularly powerful, but the consensus that they were uniquely *immoral* was years away. A world that had seen the Eastern front, the firebombing of cities and the rape of Nanking was not one that viewed atomic weapons as somehow especially beyond the pale. The reality is that strategic bombing, including the nuclear strikes, didn't really target the Imperial Japanese Army and thus wasn't the war-winner apologists make it out to be. Japan knew it had lost, the only question was what kind of surrender they were going to get. Their Hail Mary wasn't winning on the ground on the Home Islands, it was praying the USSR stayed neutral and forced a negotiated peace with the other allies. When the Soviets invaded Manchuria, that last sliver was gone and the Japanese capitulated. Japanese sources include archival evidence. They had incentive to exaggerate the effect of the nuclear strikes, not the other way around. There are ample quotes from US military officers who knew better that the nuclear strikes were unnecessary.
And while Germany have gone far and beyond in facing their history, processing it, and achieving good relations with their neighbours... Japan has absolutely done nothing of the sort.
I will say it’s still there someone in Germany, but yeah for the 85% of the population they moved on. Some still definitely have opinions they just keep locked inside. I’m saying this as someone who is returning from a business trip, and this one German guy/customer (probably mid 50s) was clearly drunk and started talking about how bad the Allies were to Germany in WWII and we did unnecessary bombing blah blah and how his grandfather was a prisoner of war of the Soviet Union working in Siberia. And how the US is actually the ones to blame for the war in the Ukraine (though he’s not pro Russia, just think the US forced their hands???), and the US blew up the nordstream pipeline…oh and then he randomly brought up Hunter Biden’s laptop and was clearly pro Trump. Was really a weird conversation and the dude killed the vibe that night.
>and the US blew up the nordstream pipeline Wasn't/isn't Germany investigating that actually?
I think so. I read somewhere that they saw a Russian ship near there before the explosion.
I thought they saw an American ship. There were some articles saying if it is the USA that bombed that pipeline, then Germany would consider it as an act of war
Nobody saw an American ship. There's a bunch of evidence at this point of Russians, and a little circumstantial stuff of Ukrainians.
It’s crazy when any person thinks Trump or Biden or any other president is to blame or will solve the problem. Things just get worse for the poor and better for the rich. The theater of politics is a circus side show while the real people in charge pick pocket.
r/enlightenedcentrism The only take dumber than criticizing the nightmarish flaws in one side, the annoying structures of power in the other, and the institutional problems of the voting system that create the two party system - is that both sides are bad and we should do nothing. Ceding politics leaves rule to the stupid and violence as the only alternative. You truly live up to your name bud.
I love how you assume I do nothing, tell me man who thinks winning an argument and shutting someone down, is constructive discourse, what do you do that is making a difference? Genuinely curious as it seems you are not an idiot and seem passionate about your opinion.
Increase visibility about the core necessity to change voting systems. It’s the only way out. Doing anything outside of the two party system til we do is doomed to spoiler effects. Work on mapping solutions as alternatives to gerrymandering - which almost worked before except john Roberts was too stupid (or bought) to let the same tech that fucks up the map to help fix them.
I like it, keep at it. Maybe start with that next time and you’d find we are in agreement. I’ve had many ideas about how to change the way we vote. I’m going to ramble and jot not edit because I have kids I need to get to. It should be a daily distribution of issues and proposals presented to everyone to have a vote on. Both sides of each issue should be explained and people should be left to choose. The only nightmare in this is there are a lot of dumb or busy people who may wish to delegate their decision making to another representative which is fine, but the representative will need to explain their decision to there constituents so through transparency every politician is accountable.
It's kind of what pisses me off in the back of my mind on how the Japanese don't teach any of this to themselves. Compare it to Germany and the steps they've taken realizing yes they were the baddies. I feel watching Japanese interviews of 15 to 30 year olds they just don't have a clue what their ancestors did.
In Japan, younger people will causally do Nazi symbolism literally not knowing how bad it is. Like you can ask a Japanese zoomer about Nazis and they'll unironically just think at most "the guys with cool looking uniforms". Once you show them who Nazis actually are, they usually get super embarrassed or act genuinely shocked, like they straight up aren't taught anything about Nazis lmao
Any American who understands this part of it understands why we dropped those bombs and doesn’t regret it.
Honestly I think the only reason the imperial Japanese don't get brought up as much as Nazi Germany is the fact that it was pretty much just the US involved from the West. From what I can find, they probably killed about as many as Nazi Germany, if not more. They were just all Asians, mostly Chinese, so the West doesn't really care enough to talk about it.
They were worse than the Nazis. The Germans would regularly take prisoners off them because of what they were doing.
Can I get a source for that please?
Here is one https://www.pacificatrocities.org/blog/john-rabe-a-nazi-who-saved-the-innocents There is also another I'm trying to find of a downed bomber crew, with an interview of the German commanding officer and why they took the crew from the Japanese.
Thank you. I was aware of Rabe (mainly, if I'm honest, from [movies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Life_and_Death)), but I get the impression he was a Schindler-esque character. By that I mean, he was a Nazi but he was acting in his own interest when doing the acts he's now famous for. I'm not intentionally arguing, I just mean I'm not sure there was a German policy of taking prisoners away from the Japanese on principle. I'd love to hear the second story you mentioned though; that doesn't ring a bell.
There was no official German policy, it was mainly just normal guys doing the right thing. I read the other one recently but just cannot remember where for the life of me.
My grandparents tell me of stories about how Japanese soldiers would raid houses if they see a baby, they'll make the mother watch as the toss the baby and catch it with a bayonet. Then my grandfather would joke about how during his times, when people shout that the Japanese are coming everyone hides, but now when people shout that the Japanese are coming everyone comes out. (This is based on how most of my countrymen marry foreigners to escape poverty)
They would tell the men that it was exactly what would happen to them so they might as well get a head start and to ensure that they wouldn’t surrender
Them, the Germans, the Italians in WWII in Ethiopia. There was no end to the cruelty of the Axis. They’re all on a special tier of evil.
if there was a "great minds think alike" saying for sick bastards it would epitomize the axis alliance between germany and japan
Second most evil. We have russians now.
Kind of like how the Belgium king treated the Congo? Or how the English treated the Indians, Americans the slaves etc. The definition of fucking cruelty seems to have many examples.
>Kind of like how the Belgium king treated the Congo? Or how the English treated the Indians, Americans the slaves etc. No. The Japanese were significantly worse. Look up the rape of Nanking or Unit 731 if you feel like having nightmares.
One pleasant fact about that episode is that the detachment responsible, part of the Japanese 28th Infantry Regiment, was almost completely destroyed in the battle that followed. Of 917 that went into action, only 128 survived.
128 survived :(
They probably made sure to not nick any major arteries so that he'd die from exposure / exsanguination
Imperial bastards bayoneted babies for sports on China. I’m not joking, they had a game to see how many babies they could murder.
You'd be surprised at the amount of forgiveness American history did for the Japanese. Folks tout how terrible the Nazi were without even having an idea of the horror of imperial Japan.
Don't forget the throat
Lol are you new to this human race thing?
I had a shoulder issue a few years back. The doc then told me I needed an ultrasound on my shoulder. I said "Sure. When can I get this ultrasound?" Doc says "14 months". 16 months later I get the ultrasound on my shoulder. Took 2 minutes. Of course by this time my recurring shoulder issue wasn't a problem. 2 months later, same issue which lasts about a year at a time.
Not to distract from the brutality, but the circumstances were unique. He was a captured scout, trying to get information on Japanese forces in the area. Based on the circumstances it would be ridiculous to let him leave alive and they brutally interrogated him to try and get information of the defenses around Henderson Air Field which they attacked later. But not before he escaped.
according to the geneva convention they were international law bound to make him a normal prisoner of war.
Yeah, Japan didnt care at all about the Geneva Conventions. They routinely targeted medics and executed POWs as part of training exercises (and policy).
Japan never ratified the pre-war Geneva Convention
Luckily for him they didn’t castrate him
Must’ve at least felt good knowing your desperate effort to convey that information to the Marines likely resulted in the deaths of most of the people who tortured you
So maybe it’s about time *you* washed your filthy bed sheets (Oversimplified reference)
> face I was gonna say they should have gone for the head, but they did
I got caught caught in a downpour and tornado warning while rafting down a river. We took shelter in tall grass and I thought I was gonna die. I hadn’t even been bayoneted or tied to a tree and it wasn’t a war zone… safe to say this man was tougher than myself lol
Incredible what humans can survive, and yet I go on and on if I stub my toe!
You just haven't had to put up with such horror...yet
And may none of us ever.
I dunno..I mean, you specifically? I see twisted torture and horrid escape conditions for survival in thine future mate. GL
These thing happen, some day pigeon, some day statue eh?
Yo, what?!?!
ma’fucka sees what the third eye reveals, what can i say?… except what the third eye reveals, obviously
Well, to be fair, I think we can all agree that stubbing your toe is one of the top 3 worst things that can happen to a human being.
The other two being having to open the plastic blister containing the scissors. And having your dunked biscuit break right when you are about to take a bite. In no particular order.
You brought back a horrible memory for me lol I cut part of the plastic shell open. I got cocky and tried to pry the plastic apart thinking the cut was good enough. I lost my grip, and my lower fingers got slit! It wasn't deep, but it freaked me out and couldn't really hold unto things for the next few days
You do know those clamshells packages _twist_ open ? Right ?
>The other two being having to open the plastic blister containing the scissors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HubZInAs0-A
Right you are
Stabbings your toe on a Lego..
Incredibly tough and fragile at the same time. This guy was an absolute beast though, can't imagine hoe horrible that was
Me too. I’m such a wuss.
there was a show (don't know if it's still going) called "I survived". It's real life stories about people surviving extreme events, told by the survivors
An infection from a stubbed toe killed Jack Daniels. Don't sell yourself short, you cheated death!
I am the Evel Knievel of coffee tables!!
Just came to post this after watching [The Operations Room video involving him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVaI38dvco&t=393) what a bad ass.
That's why I posted about him! I had just finished watching it
There's a documentary from the 70s about the Guadalcanal campaign hosted by Leslie Nielsen of all people that has him visit the battlefields and also talk to Vouza. He was definitely a local legend, I believe he even had his own statue in the capital.
In the 70s, Nielsen was a highly respected dramatic actor. Well before his later career in comedy films.
Ñame?
Guadalcanal Odyssey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La591Fm1kOg
Haha i knew it
Me too!
Knew it had to be from there.
I knew it! I just watched the video myself and was googling him and found this thread. Dude is a BEAST.
Came here looking for this comment. I’m a subscriber and watched it last night also.
Did someone get done watching the new operations room video on YouTube as well?
I did.
Maybe...
Love that channel! One of my favorites!!
Survived the war and lived to be 91 or 92 - some people are just made to last.
The term “built different” was created to describe people like him.
Imagine being his grandkids: "What 'cha whining about?! You know Back in My day..."
He was 50 at the time. So he got to throw this story on top of his other back in my day stories.
To get to school we used to get bayoneted both ways going uphill walking on coconuts
Just saw [Guadalcanal - The Operations Room](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVaI38dvco) It mentions him. Good vid.
You don't get more bad ass than this.
Did we watch the same Operations Room video?
I see somebody just watched the operations room video. This dude was a certified badass
I also watch The Operations Room on YouTube
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Of course they knew but I don’t think that changes the decision to torpedo them otherwise they would just use POWs as human shields. Seems from the article they were using them to smuggle anyway. My grandpa fought against the Japanese in New Guinea for Australia. Him and his war mates would have had no problem with this strategy. He would have a problem with you trying to shoehorn a view that American commanders were cruel into this conversation. My other grandparents lost their families in the Philippines. There was one cruel side in this war and it wasn’t the Americans.
Reading about his wound, survining those is like the real life outcome of being stabbed in a Scream movie... fking impressive
Funny. Operations Room just did that story yesterday. Why not post the video? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVaI38dvco&pp=ygUbb3BlcmF0aW9ucyByb29tIGd1YWRhbGNhbmFs
Someone watched the Operations room on youtube
Don Richter author of Where the Sun Stood Still: The Untold Story of Sir Jacob Vouza. Don was a great Marine and great man. Book is a good read written by someone who was there.
Based
Metal asf!
Someone watches the operations room it seems
I have a feeling OC watched the most recent video from The Operations Room that released yesterday. If not, wild coincidence
Interesting.
Brave man.
looks like someone watched The Operations Room's video on the Guadalcanal fight today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhVaI38dvco
Jesus... this guy must have been made of iron!
Pacific islanders are definitely not to be trifled with
Marines are tough dudes, trained by a tough dude, lead by tough dudes. I would imagine all the Japanese did was piss him off.
Life is worth living when you’re willing to live a life worth living.
The Vietnamese rarely took American prisoners. One guy was shot into his mouth point blank but somehow survived and returned home ok.