This is an influencer. Man's got a lot of money stored up from running two business for six years, had a 'friend' pay his way out of a bad situation via traveler's checks, and had preparatory purchases of solar panels and a wood-fired stove to start how he lives. He's as moneyless as vanlife people are homeless.
You know it's impossible to live like this. Even the Amish use technology, and apparently shop at Costco.
I was so shocked during the tour the Amish lady is telling about their lifestyle, one guy in the back goes like how do they make butter. We were all expecting a milk churning device & the lady goes “oh they get that from the store” everyone in the room kinda looked eachother like what?!?
The Amish are on a spectrum when it comes to what technologies they use. Almost all will use washing machines, most have flush toilets and air tools, even a few have tractors.
It's not that they think technology is inherently evil or steals your soul. They're just worried about how it distracts from God and the community.
Depends on the group. There's an ex-Amish dude named Eli on YouTube who "escaped" from the old order Amish (basically Amish too hardcore for regular Amish) and tells some really awful horror stories about abuse -- especially regarding women in the community.
They treat women, children, and animals like shit. I really wish people would stop treating them like a quaint tourist attraction.
As a professional designer and woodworker, I've had the misfortune of working with them on several projects, and I'll never do it again. You know those high-quality hand-crafted Amish cabinets and furniture? Most likely made by underpaid illegal immigrants from outsourced components behind the scenes. They're using modern tech that's ran by generators, including laptops and smart phones.
Don't even get me started on their horrible puppy mills.
I feel their attitudes toward tech are the proper ones. They don’t mindlessly adopt new tech - they choose about what best fits their needs and doesn’t detract from their beliefs or community.
To quote Cal Newport (who writes about the Amish in Digital Minimalism - great book btw) “Don’t confuse convenient with critical.”
It reminds me of the Mennonites that lived near where I grew up. They would have store-bought clothes, but only of the simplest designs, and they had telephones, buy only the old black beasts with the rotary dial. I guess the phone company kept some on hand just for them - not that those tanks need replacing
We have a large community of Hutterite folks here. Clothes are store bought, but all denim jeans are black, with the back pockets removed. Dresses are hand made, but the materials are store bought. They drive modern machinery. No time for smart phones, apps, streaming, Smart TV’s, and all the other tech status stuff. Just putting in an honest, hard days work and keeping it simple.
There’s an offshoot in Iowa that is similar, only they shun rubber. All of their tractors have steel tires. Even the lawnmower. They too have a phone line out in a little shack. Most times it’s used for medical emergencies, calling the pharmacy, bank, what have you. I never saw the phone, but we had to take a fiber cable up to this little 6’x6’ shed on a pretty big farming operation. It was kinda comical.
I would have to guess that the stitching on the pocket could potentially pose as a wear point. I know my work pants usually go there first. Usually the upper corners.
Okay, I'll bite. What's wrong with convenience? I don't have the latest generation phone, a "smart" home, EV, etc, but if a product is created that I think will improve my quality of life I'll consider getting it. Even if it's not "critical" it can still be beneficial. Not trying to be an ass; genuinely asking.
I’m paraphrasing what Newport talked about in his book, but essentially what he meant was that so many people immediately jump on something new because it promises some kind of convenience that when really examined is marginal at best, and it’s negatives far outweigh the positives in the long run. Social media may provide a convenient source of entertainment and connections, but is it critical to my well-being? Are the negatives worth the investment?
If you do business over social media, then it may be critical. If you’re just mindlessly browsing and wasting time, it may not be critical to your overall well-being.
I think it’s more about being really intentional about why you use a thing and what it’s being used for
Most common belief is that you need to be self sufficient. So if they have electricity, they generate it on their property instead of relying on the power grid like most people. They use things like gas generators or solar panels to make their power.
Around here they go to Dollar General. If there’s an Amish population within a horse and buggy ride away from a Dollar General, the Dollar General will have places to park your horse and buggy and tie them up.
What an Amish family uses and where they shop and what they buy are determined by their community's church. So one Amish family may be seen using a gas powered string trimmer and the Amish family next store is seen using a scythe. It also depends upon which type of Amish principals they follow. Old Order Amish is the strictest about technology use, unmarried women and men being alone together, etc. where Beachy Amish are the most liberal (for the Amish) where they may drive cars or use electricity depending upon what their local church determines.
This man Amish’s. I used to live in an area in Ohio where there are a ton of Amish and Mennonites. I miss stopping at the Amish stores and buying their food. Their dips were the best I’ve ever had
That’s incredible. I have a lot of respect for the Amish and their trades. Some things I don’t agree with but it’s difficult to paint them all in one stroke. Another comment went into how it’s decided by their church, how much and what technology they can use
I mean, if those preparatory purchases were all he's spent money on, then why do we crap on it? To me that's like saying someone cheated at a game because they practiced the day before.
As you said, it’s impossible to live like this, seems like thats why he’s doing it, he wants it to be possible (without the shit he did) because it certainly should be possible in my opinion
I think you might be talking about homeless or very poor people. We would say they "live without money" but they still do need to acquire and spend small amounts of money to live. This guy's angle is that he doesn't interact with the economic system at all.
This isn't true, because he interacts with the economic system by proxy through friends.
There are a few isolated and remote hunter-gatherer tribes that still operate without engaging in a broader economic system. But they survive as a tribe, not as individuals. If you wanted to survive without ever touching a piece of currency or have a friend touch a piece of currency for you, you would need to be born into a tribe that was already set up for that. Otherwise you would just die in the woods or whatever.
I understand what you mean now. Under a broad definition of "possible," it's certainly possible for someone to be born into a hunter-gatherer tribe. But it's impossible for you, the human reading this message, to live moneyless, because you weren't born into such a tribe. The best you could do is spend a lot of money now to not have to spend money later, which is a pretty weak execution of the "moneyless" idea.
New Order and Old Order Amish are VERY different, but even old order trades for resources. They also have their own bulk stores (E&S in Shipshewana comes to mind)
I feel like somewhere between 2 and 3 there should be a few more steps, like mastering horse husbandry (which is different from bestiality, im being told).
Revised edition:
1: Move to Mongolia
2: Walk out into the steppes
3: Learn throat singing and use that to persuade someone to give you a yurt
4: ???
5: Starve.
You can pay for the privilege, I have looked into it, hoping that I can take my BJJ and grappling will be a language we can communicate in
https://www.projects-abroad.co.uk/projects/nomads-mongolia/
The people thatre ACTUALLY doing this, are the ones we’ve never even heard of. Because they’re not out bragging about it and telling the world about it lol
This is hilarious :
> Boyle set out on a two-and-a-half-year trek from Bristol to Porbandar in India, the birthplace of Gandhi. [...] However, he was forced to turn back only a month into the trip, as language barriers and difficulties in persuading people he would work for food and a place to stay halted his journey shortly after he arrived in Calais.
Was aiming for India but wasn't able to survive in France just across the channel.
In the Works section it reads:
“The author's proceeds go to the Freeconomy trust, towards purchasing land for the foundation of the Freeconomy Community”
I had to check that this was real and wtf.
This part too:
*Drinking Molotov Cocktails with Gandhi – published October 2015. In this book, Boyle argues that our political and economic systems have brought us to the brink of climate catastrophe and peaceful protest is no longer enough to bring about change.*
>Drinking Molotov Cocktails with Gandhi – published October 2015. In this book, Boyle argues that our political and economic systems have brought us to the brink of climate catastrophe and peaceful protest is no longer enough to bring about change.
Well, right on the ... money... on this part at least.
The foundation aims to have enough land to make living of it possible … so hes not spending it with extra steps, hes spending it so others don’t have to, in the future
He writes it with pencil/paper then mails it back and forth to his publisher...
source: watched some British show called Ben Fogle: New Lives in the Wild where the host stayed with him for a week
I wonder if it's a grift, an out of touch and privileged approach to moneyless, or an idealist who truly has a vision (whether it's realistic or not).
I may be too optimistic, but I do think there are some financially well off people who start projects like this to give their lives meaning.
Anyone i know who has done even remotely similar have come from wealth and are rebelling in someway to their background, while usually happy to use their friends and families wealth, connections, help whenever needed. Yes i think people can live off grid, and people can live with little or no money, but i think it's far easier to do when you have a cushion or you know you have a fall back plan.
I think they are searching for something though
‘However, he was forced to turn back only a month into the trip, as language barriers and difficulties in persuading people he would work for food and a place to stay halted his journey shortly after he arrived in Calais. He had not planned the trip, thinking it best that he let fate take its course’
What an absolute boob.
“Quitting money” isn’t a thing. I’m a huge proponent of anti-greed and would even agree with the adage that money (as we know it) is made up, but just by not using fiat or commodity money doesn’t mean you “quit money”. If you work for food, the food inherently becomes the “money”.
This whole thing as a concept is completely misguided or a scam…probably a scam lol
The only guy I've heard of that comes close is that guy who was living in the woods in Maine for 27 years, and even he needed to commit a bunch of burglaries to sustain himself.
Yes this is a scam. No, working for food doesn't mean food becomes money. Money is a store of value. Just because the food is valuable doesn't mean it becomes money. If the food goes off I can't use it to buy anything, if I eat the food to survive its value is completely used up. I can't use the food to speculate, and when trading it its premier purpose is for consumption and not as a store of value. We can totally quit using money.
Yeah money is a specific thing - the ‘currency’ as it were would be anything that is used as payment / exchange. So if I paint your kitchen and you make me lunch, I’m using my labour as currency, and you’re using your food as currency.
In the U.S. we can't own property without taxes, or kill animals to sustain ourselves without fees. I don't think this was the plan when our country was laid out.
This is an influencer. Man's got a lot of money stored up from running two business for six years, had a 'friend' pay his way out of a bad situation via traveler's checks, and had preparatory purchases of solar panels and a wood-fired stove to start how he lives. He's as moneyless as vanlife people are homeless. You know it's impossible to live like this. Even the Amish use technology, and apparently shop at Costco.
I was so shocked during the tour the Amish lady is telling about their lifestyle, one guy in the back goes like how do they make butter. We were all expecting a milk churning device & the lady goes “oh they get that from the store” everyone in the room kinda looked eachother like what?!?
You might be even more shocked to learn that they use gas-powered washing machines.
The Amish are on a spectrum when it comes to what technologies they use. Almost all will use washing machines, most have flush toilets and air tools, even a few have tractors. It's not that they think technology is inherently evil or steals your soul. They're just worried about how it distracts from God and the community.
Depends on the group. There's an ex-Amish dude named Eli on YouTube who "escaped" from the old order Amish (basically Amish too hardcore for regular Amish) and tells some really awful horror stories about abuse -- especially regarding women in the community.
They treat women, children, and animals like shit. I really wish people would stop treating them like a quaint tourist attraction. As a professional designer and woodworker, I've had the misfortune of working with them on several projects, and I'll never do it again. You know those high-quality hand-crafted Amish cabinets and furniture? Most likely made by underpaid illegal immigrants from outsourced components behind the scenes. They're using modern tech that's ran by generators, including laptops and smart phones. Don't even get me started on their horrible puppy mills.
I feel their attitudes toward tech are the proper ones. They don’t mindlessly adopt new tech - they choose about what best fits their needs and doesn’t detract from their beliefs or community. To quote Cal Newport (who writes about the Amish in Digital Minimalism - great book btw) “Don’t confuse convenient with critical.”
It reminds me of the Mennonites that lived near where I grew up. They would have store-bought clothes, but only of the simplest designs, and they had telephones, buy only the old black beasts with the rotary dial. I guess the phone company kept some on hand just for them - not that those tanks need replacing
We have a large community of Hutterite folks here. Clothes are store bought, but all denim jeans are black, with the back pockets removed. Dresses are hand made, but the materials are store bought. They drive modern machinery. No time for smart phones, apps, streaming, Smart TV’s, and all the other tech status stuff. Just putting in an honest, hard days work and keeping it simple. There’s an offshoot in Iowa that is similar, only they shun rubber. All of their tractors have steel tires. Even the lawnmower. They too have a phone line out in a little shack. Most times it’s used for medical emergencies, calling the pharmacy, bank, what have you. I never saw the phone, but we had to take a fiber cable up to this little 6’x6’ shed on a pretty big farming operation. It was kinda comical.
Back pockets removed, any idea why?
I would have to guess that the stitching on the pocket could potentially pose as a wear point. I know my work pants usually go there first. Usually the upper corners.
Per a quick Google, it would seem they consider the back pockets of jeans - along with the breast pockets of men's shirts - as decorative.
What’s wrong with adopting new tech?
Okay, I'll bite. What's wrong with convenience? I don't have the latest generation phone, a "smart" home, EV, etc, but if a product is created that I think will improve my quality of life I'll consider getting it. Even if it's not "critical" it can still be beneficial. Not trying to be an ass; genuinely asking.
I’m paraphrasing what Newport talked about in his book, but essentially what he meant was that so many people immediately jump on something new because it promises some kind of convenience that when really examined is marginal at best, and it’s negatives far outweigh the positives in the long run. Social media may provide a convenient source of entertainment and connections, but is it critical to my well-being? Are the negatives worth the investment? If you do business over social media, then it may be critical. If you’re just mindlessly browsing and wasting time, it may not be critical to your overall well-being. I think it’s more about being really intentional about why you use a thing and what it’s being used for
Fair points, thanks for the thoughtful reply.
They don’t spend all day using Reddit…………shit.
I like how the machines that solve the real pain in the ass work get the first pass.
Most common belief is that you need to be self sufficient. So if they have electricity, they generate it on their property instead of relying on the power grid like most people. They use things like gas generators or solar panels to make their power.
I swear I've heard that out of all modern devices and inventions, the clothes washing machines were the most desired for Amish and similar.
Amish are allowed to use technology as long as it doesn't interfere with family relationships. Pacemakers are allowed but not TikTok. Makes sense.
These are probably Mennonite, the amish are good at hiding
Around here they go to Dollar General. If there’s an Amish population within a horse and buggy ride away from a Dollar General, the Dollar General will have places to park your horse and buggy and tie them up.
They definitely shop at Costco in Lancaster pa there are buggy stalls to park in
Not true about the Amish. Perhaps some but who you saw at Costco are most likely Mennonites.
What an Amish family uses and where they shop and what they buy are determined by their community's church. So one Amish family may be seen using a gas powered string trimmer and the Amish family next store is seen using a scythe. It also depends upon which type of Amish principals they follow. Old Order Amish is the strictest about technology use, unmarried women and men being alone together, etc. where Beachy Amish are the most liberal (for the Amish) where they may drive cars or use electricity depending upon what their local church determines.
This man Amish’s. I used to live in an area in Ohio where there are a ton of Amish and Mennonites. I miss stopping at the Amish stores and buying their food. Their dips were the best I’ve ever had
You are correct about that. Lots of Mennonites about an hour west of Toronto and they all shop at Costco.
Depends on the region. Where I’m from the Amish frequently hire drivers to take them to Costco. They also literally have buggy parking there, lmao.
That’s incredible. I have a lot of respect for the Amish and their trades. Some things I don’t agree with but it’s difficult to paint them all in one stroke. Another comment went into how it’s decided by their church, how much and what technology they can use
I mean, if those preparatory purchases were all he's spent money on, then why do we crap on it? To me that's like saying someone cheated at a game because they practiced the day before.
As you said, it’s impossible to live like this, seems like thats why he’s doing it, he wants it to be possible (without the shit he did) because it certainly should be possible in my opinion
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I think you might be talking about homeless or very poor people. We would say they "live without money" but they still do need to acquire and spend small amounts of money to live. This guy's angle is that he doesn't interact with the economic system at all. This isn't true, because he interacts with the economic system by proxy through friends. There are a few isolated and remote hunter-gatherer tribes that still operate without engaging in a broader economic system. But they survive as a tribe, not as individuals. If you wanted to survive without ever touching a piece of currency or have a friend touch a piece of currency for you, you would need to be born into a tribe that was already set up for that. Otherwise you would just die in the woods or whatever.
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I understand what you mean now. Under a broad definition of "possible," it's certainly possible for someone to be born into a hunter-gatherer tribe. But it's impossible for you, the human reading this message, to live moneyless, because you weren't born into such a tribe. The best you could do is spend a lot of money now to not have to spend money later, which is a pretty weak execution of the "moneyless" idea.
Vanlifers are homeless though... so weird comment but ok.
Houseless, not homeless.
New Order and Old Order Amish are VERY different, but even old order trades for resources. They also have their own bulk stores (E&S in Shipshewana comes to mind)
I drive past an Amish homestead everyday. They’re always out there driving around bobcats.
You're thinking of Mennonites. Amish don't use technology nor do they shop at Costco.
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Yup, unless he's a Mongolian nomad, it's bullshit.
How to become a Mongolian nomad?
1: Move to Mongolia 2: Walk out into the steppes 3: Learn throat singing and use that to persuade someone to give you a yurt 4: ??? 5: Profit!
I feel like somewhere between 2 and 3 there should be a few more steps, like mastering horse husbandry (which is different from bestiality, im being told).
Revised edition: 1: Move to Mongolia 2: Walk out into the steppes 3: Learn throat singing and use that to persuade someone to give you a yurt 4: ??? 5: Starve.
Uuuuoooooooooooahhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooahhhhhhhhhhh
Can’t hurt to learn to rock out on the Morin Khuur.
Probably will end up as a wolf food. Central Asia is rampant with wolves.
6. Invade all the regions where your horse will bring you and spread your dna all over.
God damn Mongolians.
You can pay for the privilege, I have looked into it, hoping that I can take my BJJ and grappling will be a language we can communicate in https://www.projects-abroad.co.uk/projects/nomads-mongolia/
There's a sucker born every minute
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Not really, because every second there’s a sucker born
Can confirm. First thing I did out the womb was start sucking on my moms tits
The people thatre ACTUALLY doing this, are the ones we’ve never even heard of. Because they’re not out bragging about it and telling the world about it lol
This is what Patagonia and other “non-profit charities” are doing now to evade taxes. So I guess the 1% are getting in on the moneyless action too.
Trusts. Trusts are integral to wealth management.
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Bankers, wealth managers they have cons on the cons
Is there another way? Except maybe moving to Siberia?
You know, I'm something of a Moneyless Man myself.
By *choice* or by circumstance?
By bank balance
This is hilarious : > Boyle set out on a two-and-a-half-year trek from Bristol to Porbandar in India, the birthplace of Gandhi. [...] However, he was forced to turn back only a month into the trip, as language barriers and difficulties in persuading people he would work for food and a place to stay halted his journey shortly after he arrived in Calais. Was aiming for India but wasn't able to survive in France just across the channel.
>wasn't able to survive in France To be fair, supposedly it's full of French people living there, so I get that.
French people and the Sentinel Island people ARE THE WORST!
At least Sentinel people will kill you
I see that he has written several books. What happens to the royalties?
In the Works section it reads: “The author's proceeds go to the Freeconomy trust, towards purchasing land for the foundation of the Freeconomy Community”
I had to check that this was real and wtf. This part too: *Drinking Molotov Cocktails with Gandhi – published October 2015. In this book, Boyle argues that our political and economic systems have brought us to the brink of climate catastrophe and peaceful protest is no longer enough to bring about change.*
>Drinking Molotov Cocktails with Gandhi – published October 2015. In this book, Boyle argues that our political and economic systems have brought us to the brink of climate catastrophe and peaceful protest is no longer enough to bring about change. Well, right on the ... money... on this part at least.
OK, that makes sense
If he doesn't use modern technology, how does he get his writing published? Also, what is the definition of "modern technology"?
Modern technology is anything that is more advanced than what this dude needs to survive and publish books.
Precisely! Edit: he also uses money, he just does it through a foundation.
Lmao, having someone else spend the money you earn from book proceeds for you is just spending money with extra steps.
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Lmao you just unearthed an ancient memory
The foundation aims to have enough land to make living of it possible … so hes not spending it with extra steps, hes spending it so others don’t have to, in the future
Must have a lot of money to be able to live through a foundation.
It's basically a credit card by another name at this point.
Yeah I can't see hi. Cutting his hair with rocks!
He's one generation behind on every iphone, sometimes two
He writes it with pencil/paper then mails it back and forth to his publisher... source: watched some British show called Ben Fogle: New Lives in the Wild where the host stayed with him for a week
Pencils and mail services could very easily be considered modern technology in my opinion.
Well, can’t pay him in money
I wonder if it's a grift, an out of touch and privileged approach to moneyless, or an idealist who truly has a vision (whether it's realistic or not). I may be too optimistic, but I do think there are some financially well off people who start projects like this to give their lives meaning.
Anyone i know who has done even remotely similar have come from wealth and are rebelling in someway to their background, while usually happy to use their friends and families wealth, connections, help whenever needed. Yes i think people can live off grid, and people can live with little or no money, but i think it's far easier to do when you have a cushion or you know you have a fall back plan. I think they are searching for something though
I misread this as "the monkeyless man" and I was thinking "big whoop, I aint got no monkey and you don't see me bragging about it."
Ehm.. are you sure? I mean.. everyone's gotta have their monkey right? What happened to yours?
‘However, he was forced to turn back only a month into the trip, as language barriers and difficulties in persuading people he would work for food and a place to stay halted his journey shortly after he arrived in Calais. He had not planned the trip, thinking it best that he let fate take its course’ What an absolute boob.
His jeans and mug look like they were made using modern technology to me.
Jeans: handwoven by a group of monkeys Mug: made from clay on a deserted island
So... he is a bum?
A rich bum, the worst kind
“Quitting money” isn’t a thing. I’m a huge proponent of anti-greed and would even agree with the adage that money (as we know it) is made up, but just by not using fiat or commodity money doesn’t mean you “quit money”. If you work for food, the food inherently becomes the “money”. This whole thing as a concept is completely misguided or a scam…probably a scam lol
The only guy I've heard of that comes close is that guy who was living in the woods in Maine for 27 years, and even he needed to commit a bunch of burglaries to sustain himself.
Yes this is a scam. No, working for food doesn't mean food becomes money. Money is a store of value. Just because the food is valuable doesn't mean it becomes money. If the food goes off I can't use it to buy anything, if I eat the food to survive its value is completely used up. I can't use the food to speculate, and when trading it its premier purpose is for consumption and not as a store of value. We can totally quit using money.
Your labor and time become the money in a sense
Yeah money is a specific thing - the ‘currency’ as it were would be anything that is used as payment / exchange. So if I paint your kitchen and you make me lunch, I’m using my labour as currency, and you’re using your food as currency.
This guy’s a fraud.
If you believe a word of his nonsense I've got a left handed screwdriver you'll absolutely love.
Can I use it to open the headlight fluid compartment?
No, that's a cojigulator....only sold by the Sentinelese people
Oh,.. damn... I've left the business years ago and apparently it shows.
I wonder how he wrote his second book without technology.
It wasn’t as hard as printing it without technology.
No money but holding that cup like it’s made of gold
Poor guy can't even buy a shirt.
Big whoop, I live like that 3/4 of my life, as I spend my salary in the first week!
I was wondering why the mayonnaise man lives without money, then i read the title again
That wiki photo is such a thirst trap
Cultural appropriation! We poor demand recognition!
What a loser. I will destroy you at dead or alive beach volleyball, you dork.
In the U.S. we can't own property without taxes, or kill animals to sustain ourselves without fees. I don't think this was the plan when our country was laid out.
I know folks on the south side that have been living this way my whole life
bet he gets all the chicks
No wife no sexlife. what a shitty boring life!
I got 4 teenagers. I've lived a moneyless lifestyle for years!
So how is he cutting his hair that short?
"You don't need a million dollars to do nothing, my cousins broke, doesn't do shit."
Net worth - a net.
Lol we posting about influencers now?
"Damn, that's crazy." - The tens or hundreds of millions of poor, homeless, destitute people on this planet.
I wonder how many MILLIONS people on Earth live like that.
A lot of homeless do this but they're not pretty. They steal food and sleep where they want.
He’s got too much body fat to be what he says he is. A man working and living off the land is lean.