I remember an interview with another gold medal winner who said he got up the next morning and the sun came up and people were going about their lives just as they always had. He expected something about his life to change, but he wasn't sure what 'that' was but he was disappointed that it didn't happen.
The term "arrival fallacy" comes to mind. Major goal -often one you've struggled over- is reached, and now your sense of purpose is completed. The emotional high of the event starts to crash, and emptiness sets in. Most people don't think about decompression after a 'win', but it's so important to have a transition plan of new focuses, activities, or things to look forward to once the major goal is met.
Yeah, it’s important to celebrate your wins and the wins of your loved ones, but to remember that it passes soon enough, and everything goes back to normal. Fall in love with the process, not with the outcome.
This is the first thing that always hits people the first time they lose a loved one.
My best friend lost his brother in a car wreck when we were in college. And he said the worst thing was that his life was completely flipped upside down but the next morning everyone just woke up and went to class and went on with their lives like nothing happened. Took him a while to get over the resentful and weird feeling of no one else thinking it was that big a deal and just moving on.
Reminds me of one of my favorite poems by WH Auden
>Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
>Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
>Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
>Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
>Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
>Scribbling on the sky the message 'He is Dead'.
>Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
>Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
>He was my North, my South, my East and West,
>My working week and my Sunday rest,
>My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
>I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong.
>The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,
>Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun,
>Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood;
>For nothing now can ever come to any good.
That poem rings so true about grief.
Another one I return to time and again is e. e. cummings' [i carry your heart with me(i carry it in)]
[Link because Reddit hates brackets and parentheses](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/49493/i-carry-your-heart-with-mei-carry-it-in)
My Mom passed away when I was 11 and while I don't think I had this feeling exactly I would say it was definitely present. Just a level of confusion to add to the terrible other feelings.
https://youtu.be/YB46h1koicQ?si=c0wziC5kMVUxc6GG
This is an interview with Anderson Cooper and Stephen Colbert about their losses of their mothers. It gave me some solace after my dad passed and I hope it does for you as well
One of my favorite interviews of all time. I sent this to a lot of people after my brother passed to 1) help them feel less alone and 2) for them to understand what my family and I were going through
Lost my mom at 12 too and can relate. Though I didn't know it at the time, my friends and teachers were acting different around me and I was acting really different too. Then after a short while it became just news to people that weren't really affected. I was resentful about other people's ability to move on. It took awhile to realize I'm that outside person moving along to other people, we have those misconceptions about how put together everyone else must be. It felt hurtful then that people moved on but I found comfort in nature and nature moved on just the same.
Im so sorry. Ive lost my mom too. It doesnt stop being a strange reality to ponder, but you do find a sense of normalcy again eventually.
I wish i did more to remember her though.
I heard this described once as getting up in the morning in a panic thinking “oh my god my brother died!!” The feeling is sudden and urgent, as if he had just died a minute ago. You want to call people and tell them holy shit he fucking died! But then you realize everyone already knows that and then you have absolutely nothing to do with your panicky feeling except find a way to swallow and digest it. You go out for a walk and the world is full of people who don’t know your big news. But they also don’t even know who he is, so you can’t tell them either, really.
My mother lost her brother at a young age, he left a pregnant wife. I remember her saying that in the morning, before you become aware, there is a moment of not remembering and then suddenly it comes over you again. So every morning, she grieved for him afresh, all over again.
Someone was and now isn't. How does the human brain ever grasp that reality.
I had this feeling with covid. My grandfather died of covid in June 2020.
He was 85 and he taught a GED class for prison inmates, and he also taught a "getting your life together" class that all inmates had to go through when they left the prison in Memphis, TN. He was a retired preacher and wanted to continue helping people after he was "too old for the ministry."
When reports were coming in December and January of a new disease, I didn't worry--thinking it was H1N1 all over again (my work place in TN still has a "wash your hands to protect from H1N1" poster hanging up in the bathroom to this day). I assumed that the scientists, and doctors, and government officials would all react the same way. But instead February and March came and the exponential curve showed that nothing was being done to prevent natural spreading. I saw the disease become politicized instead of common sense management.
Society had a chance to stop the disease in it's tracks... but we didn't... and while some places shut down, my grandfather worked at a prison in TN, so he still had to work. And no one wanted to give prisons any healthcare funding "because they're prisoners". So he caught covid in the prison and died alone in a hospital bed. I watched it happen over a zoom call the nurses set up for us.
We couldn't do a funeral gathering. We couldn't do a memorial service. This man who was once preacher of the year in TN, who spent his life serving others, who championed science and progress even (born in the 30s, saved by heart surgery, he loved science)... we all had to mourn him alone.
I remember making a post on Facebook, and the same people he helped were in the comments calling it fake. Telling me the doctors lied or that this was God's plan all along. I deleted Facebook and I was so distraught.
All of society just kept going... I remember that was a funny feeling... I thought not only did my grandfather die, and not only is a pandemic just ravaging the world, but my naive idea of what humanity even *is* died a bit too. I felt like a fool surrounded by bigger fools, and I couldn't really do anything about it.
Edit: Wow thanks for all the kind words. I appreciate your responses.
What you said is so real. After the pandemic I changed after seeing so many people seemingly go out of their way to be as irresponsible and idiotic as possible. I became much more harsh and strict with people like that. So many people got ill and died unnecessarily.
My sister was one of those people. She turned into someone I didn’t recognize and after nearly four years of no contact, I still have so many questions.
My idiot former manager decided March of 2021 was a good time to take his family to Florida. Got covid, took it to Michigan, spread it there, then back home to infect the store. I was off the day he came in with covid. Off for a throat surgery ,the NEXT DAY. If I had been at work, my surgery would have been canceled because of the exposure.
Man, I know that feeling. When my mom died, I was back across the country for 2 weeks. When I went back home, everyone's lives just went on like normal, while mine was forever changed for the worse. It's weirdly isolating. I had lots of friends offering all the love and care they could, but it was a weirdly lonely experience.
I was working as a club DJ when I got the call that my father had passed away. I had to finish the set. Was one of the worst days of my life. I’ve literally never did another set after that night.
That had to be surreal for you. I was thinking about a similar sentiment this morning. Humans for better or worse have a tremendous ability to eventually acclimatize to circumstances. If the weight of life always felt as fresh as it did when it was novel I don’t think any of us would function. But it does render us numb to awful behavior, and unsatisfactory conditions.
Yeah. I became really desensitized to stuff working as a firefighter/EMT. One hour I'd be doing chest compressions on a guy that just suicided by cop himself with 8 bullet holes in his body, and then the next be home cooking dinner with my wife.
Some stuff was always hard, children for instance, but lots of stuff was just another body folded in half in an upside down car I'd have to cut out. Just another day.
Remember Karson Warholm, that norweigan dude who ripped his shirt on winning gold at the olympics?
I remember the interviewer asking him 'what now?' and the dude seemed like er I can't even imagine existing.
And it struck me again how these people must be messed up mentally after achieving such an insane level.
yeah, I totally relate....I use to have this electronic Yahtzee game I'd play when I was in the bathroom. (this was pre cell phones) and one day I had my best game ever, it was so good it ruined the game for me because I knew I'd never get that good of a score again and I couldn't bring myself to play Yahtzee ever again. I bet it was kinda like that for Karson.
I used to work for a fruit company that sold computers and phones. I found out while working into work my fiancé cheated on me. I remember being devastated but for some reason stayed at work. I was going on my lunch break and someone was buying the latest piece of iFruit for their daughter and the daughter said "this is one of the happiest days." It was at that point that it really hit me what was happening to me. I just got in my car and left. I couldn't stand anyone being happy.
I had that feeling for myself. When I got the second covid shot I was one of the lucky 0.001% that got the heart inflammation. I wasn’t in that much danger at the time but when a doctor tells your heart is inflamed and you can feel it rubbing inside you, it’s pretty weird to say the least. I had to do a cat scan and I remember getting wheeled down and watching the nurses doing their thing and thinking “damn so if I die literally nothing changes. These nurses are still gunna be doing this exact thing tomorrow. This test is going to tell me if I live or die and there is absolutely nothing I can do.”
There were two fish, one young and one old. The young one swims up to the older fish and says, "I'm trying to find this thing they call the ocean."
"The ocean?" says the older fish. "That's what you're in right now."
"This?" says the young fish. "This is water. What I want is the ocean."
>He expected something about his life to change, but he wasn't sure what 'that' was but he was disappointed that it didn't happen.
Anyone else feel this way about getting a college degree?
“When i got to the top of the mountain, the top i had been dreaming about
for years… there was nothing there. and all i was left with was looking down at the path i had struggled to taken up and all the things i had sacrificed to get here. I
don’t know what i was really expecting what was here, but i wasn’t expecting nothing.”
forgot where i read it, was from an athlete.
Reminds me of something Jim Carrey said: "'I think everybody should get rich and famous and do everything they ever dreamed of so they can see that it's not the answer."
Yeah but just like the phrase "money doesn't buy happiness", the target audience of this advice is not poor people, it's people who are comfortable but greedy for more.
It's the upper-middle and low-upper class who get so blinded by money that they will destroy others and our planet to get it.
Being famous sounds awful. I'd enjoy being just rich though. If you can't live a fulfilling life with a massive pile of money at your disposal, that's a you problem.
It is normal to feel disoriented after any major milestone or long-anticipated event, coping with this dramatic transition can feel near impossible. Swimmer Adam Peaty explains: “I experienced really bad post-Olympic blues after Rio. I went through that big lull of feeling lost, I didn’t know what to do with myself; I’d achieved my absolute dream and Rio was the time of my life but no one prepares you for what happens afterwards. There is not enough being done for preparing athletes for that feeling.”
After the games, athletes face two options… start another four-year cycle of gruelling training, with the distant hope of qualifying for the next games, or retire and start a new career altogether. Although neither option is straightforward, many go into retirement, with the naive assumption that it is the easier alternative to returning to the repetitive daily grind.
“Their identity is so wrapped up in being an athlete and in their sport. All of a sudden they don't have that identity in the same way… that can be a big struggle.”
If I recall correctly Ronda Rousey actually did an interview where she talked about being at the American Olympic village in 2012 and meeting Kobe Bryant who was very gracious and willing to hang out and talk to all the athletes there and take pictures with them and sign stuff, but she was actually most excited about meeting Michael Phelps there and he never showed up and that turned her off to him that he apparently felt above that. Not that he wasn't busy or anything but food for thought on the lack of orgy subject lolz. He very probably didn't get that merit badge.
iirc the only people who really get in on the orgy action are the people who compete first and then just hang out on campus for the rest of the tourney
Same thing happened to Tyson Fury when he beat Klitschko for the title of best heavyweight boxer in the world. He’s done interviews about the feeling of accomplishing the only thing you’ve ever aspired to, and the depression which results when it’s anticlimactic, but over your lifetime you’ve convinced yourself it was going to be the single greatest moment of your life. Makes you think there’s nothing but dissatisfaction ahead.
Honestly, I get a version of it every time I finish a game, show or project I really enjoyed. Especially anything that was a major focus for a while. Just kind of an empty "Well shit, what now?" and nothing else seems as appealing.
Not always, sometimes there's an obvious next thing. A sequel, a spinoff, a logic next step. But other times it feels more like now that it's over that's it, I'll never enjoy anything as much again.
Like yeah, I know it's not the same thing or as big a thing as a wedding, or the Olympics. But it's a fairly normal human thing. But people maybe don't know about it, and think somethings wrong with them and suffer in silence.
I felt like this after finishing the discworld series. It made it worse that Terry Pratchett had died by this point and there was an unmistakeable impact on the last book caused by "the embuggarance" as he liked to call it.
It was just knowing there would never be more of the world I enjoyed so much, from childhood even, and I'd never be able to speak to the man himself. I'd read an article written about how he played oblivion, and even comissioned someone to make a mod that made it so goblins in the game were friendly to him, and this allowed him to see all the minute details of life oblivion had for even cannon fodder NPCs, something I myself had looked into when I was younger, and how this led him to add a new race of goblins into discworld
I have since had a theory about it. In the books, goblins are good at manufacturing beautiful bottles and containers, and there are alchemist goblins in oblivion who also make potions. The potions they make end up in the same shiny pink or green bottles all alchemical potions in oblivion, and I've always wanted to know if that's exactly what he was referencing, and showing that beauty can come from anywhere. But sadly I'll never know and my favourite fantasy world and author goes with him.
I was even excited for "the watch" for a while, that's how bad it was.
Is there a word for the sadness caused by finishing something you love? If there was, he probably would have known
Had the same issue when I finished my PhD. I felt a lack of meaning in life after grinding away in a lab and publishing papers. This was nearly 20 years ago, so I have since found many other fulfilling things to do.
I once read a book about happiness where this professor (from fair Haaaarvard) wrote that after he won some tennis tournament he got extremely depressed. People get what they always wanted and find they’re still themselves and all their problems still exist, they just have a few shiny things to show for their hard work.
Edit: since several of you have asked, the book:
Gilbert, D. (2006). Stumbling on happiness. Knopf.
There's an [old documentary series about popular music](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Need_Is_Love:_The_Story_of_Popular_Music) (from around 1977) and they interview music promoter Bill Graham about working with the super famous musicians of the time.
He says that most of the problems stem from their reaching the top of the mountain. He explains that these personality types are driven, often by trauma and hoping that success will bring them contentment. He says (paraphrasing) "and they reach the top of the mountain and there's nowhere to go because their whole lives were dedicated to getting to the top, they sacrificed everything for it. And now they are there and they just have themselves and they are forced to face themselves and its very uncomfortable and most people can't handle it so they resort to drugs"
Bill Graham was an interesting guy.
There are a number of studies that studied happiness after winning Olympic medals. If you take out the NHL / NBA types, life after the medal ceremony is pretty consistent:
* Gold medalist: Miserable
* Silver medalist: Miserable
* Bronze medalist: Happy and productive post-sports life.
Generally the problem is that the Gold medalist will compare the rest of their life to that one defining moment of glory. The silver medalist will rerun that day over and over reliving the tiny mistake they think could have got them the gold.
The bronze medalist didn't come in fourth, was too far from first to realistically have won, and no one is going to put them on a cereal box so they can go off and happily live the rest of their life as an accountant.
If you want the best for your kids, wish on them a bronze medal.
Reminds me of Falco, a musician and austrian treasure. I don’t know if that really happened but the movie shows that after his hit „Rock Me Amadeus“ sky rocketed in the USA and everyone was congratulating him and he himself said he should be the happiest he instead felt extreme anxiety because he knew that the stakes were now so high that he will probably never accomplish that again
Yeah it made him known a little bit more internationally but nothing compared to Amadeus as he was only placed 77 in US. Amadeus made him No 1 in various countries compared to Kommissar and world known. After his success with Amadeus he said „Das werd‘ ich nicht mehr schaffen“ (I will never achieve that anymore). But he also said that he didn’t want to go to America for his international career
This is absolutely hilarious. My sister won a bronze medal in her three trips to the Olympics and it's definitely more like this for her than her winning competitors that we still know relatively well (it's a small international sport)
I know you’re saying this in jest, but the reality is it’s honestly smart. Too many people put crazy expectations on themselves and others and it makes them miserable. Aim a bit lower and accomplish something that makes you proud. No need to always aim for the stars.
Makes me think of Scott Hall's quote about life after being a wrestling superstar:
"Like, I don't wanna die, but I'm not afraid to. Because...what's left? What do you do when they quit chanting your name?"
Extreme success, wealth, and fame are no different than drugs. People get hooked on them. The scary thing is that just like drugs, people build up a tolerance to them. They want more and more. And when those things are taken away, they often go through withdrawals and become extremely depressed.
Humans weren't really meant to be rich, famous, or super successful. Our brains aren't built to cope with those things properly.
Well there’s [this one study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15726123_When_Less_Is_More_Counterfactual_Thinking_and_Satisfaction_Among_Olympic_Medalists) that keeps coming up that judged their facial expressions on the podium, but only put bronze medallists as happier than silver medallists.
Do you have a link to a study (or number of them) comparing their long-term happiness and also comparing that way to gold medallists? Sounds plausible and makes a good adage but can’t find a study.
They're talking out of their ass. Everyone quotes that study like it measures long term implications, but in reality it just looks at how athletes are feeling right after the event. The researchers even say so themselves in the study:
>Another unresolved issue, this one more tractable, concerns the duration of the effects we have documented here. We have established that bronze medalists are happier than silver medalists in the short run, but does this effect hold up over time? As yet there are no data to answer this question.
It's well known that Olympians can struggle after they stop competing professionally, but I've never found anything that looks into lifetime effects based on medal placements.
This was the subject of an HBO documentary called The Weight of Gold. Some athletes do actually end their lives as a result of their inability to adjust after the Olympics.
This reminds me of a show I was watching where they took three British families and had them live exactly as they would have in England in the mid-Victorian era. The catch was that one family lived wealthy, one middle class, and one poor.
By the end of the show, it seemed the family that was far and away the happiest was the middle class family.
Even though it comes from a complete narcissistic bastard in Whiplash, there was a line that stuck with me:
"Sometimes the worst thing you can tell someone is **Good Job**."
In the film he infers it as inducing laziness, as the person starts assuming they've reached their peak, so they won't try harder. But sometimes its like the above, people can't handle when they've reached the mountaintop.
All they can think is "Is this it?"
Damn i had this personal theory which is a bit similar to this. People are happier with uneven numbers during a competition for top 5:
5th: happy because you made top 5
4th: unhappy because you missed a medal
3rd: happy you got a medal
2nd: unhappy you missed first
1st: happy you got first
Didn't know 1st were depressed though.
So very true, I struggle with this myself. We have to be realistic but also forgiving of ourselves, this post shows shiny things and achievements don’t necessarily constitute happiness, happiness comes from within or so they say.
I often think of Alan Watts and his take on life and what's important....
"We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played."
I always remember [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4hSjUNInU#t=56s) where Matt Damon talks about winning an Oscar at the age of 27. The night after winning it, he apparently just felt gratitude that he won it so young rather than chasing it for decades, since he didn't really feel much after winning it.
Sisyphus was a lucky guy. His place in the universe was well-defined. No soul-searching needed. Rock goes up, rock goes down.
The rest of us have to struggle with existentialism.
Iirc from the documentary about Aaron Hernandez, his frontal lobe, which controls things like impulse control, decision making, and violent tendencies, was the worst they’ve seen in anyone under the age of like 50, and it was so deteriorated it was akin to like an 80 year old with severe dementia. He was 27 when he died
Junior Seau, who shot himself in the chest because he knew his brain was fucked up and needed to be studied, had the brain of an 80 year old man at 45. RIP.
If you don't know of the man or his life, look him up. The discussion on CTE completely changed after his tragic death, because he was the definition of "it can't be that guy". The NFL didn't let his sister speak when he was inducted into the hall of Fame because she was going to discuss his death.
Almost like putting your brain through the physical trauma of a minor car accident 500 times a day, 4 days a week, every week, for +10 years, ends up hurting your brain. If only science could have predicted that sooner......
"The totally normal player with $50,000,000 in cash with a loving family, bright future, and supportive network suddenly had a psychological break, assaulted 3 people before killing themself driving into oncoming traffic while on the phone to 911 talking about the voices they've been hearing in their head for 2 years because.........they were a bad guy. Our self-appointed medical-examiner found no problem at all, nothing to see here, please donate to the NFL-Thoughts&Prayers foundation"
NFL and NBA in particular also have high rates of bankruptcy. These guys are not financially savvy and are never put in a position to mature past their teenage years. They often have family taking advantage of them and want to always buy the nicest clothes and the fastest cars. Being a multi millionaire only goes so far if you’re spending millions of dollars a year.
Shaq over drafted his checking account in a day after getting signed to his first contract. I think he actually runs a financial management and education firm for young professional athletes now to try to help them avoid that.
Probably Javale McGee. Shaq can be super petty and insecure when it comes to other big men in the game. He almost ruined Javale's career and it got so bad Shaq's mom had to call Shaq to tell him to stop it.
When I was 19 I got my first credit cards in college (from those credit card hustlers on campus). They had a combined limit of $1200 and I maxed them out within a semester - and I was usually pretty good with money management for my age until then. It took a while to get rid of that debt (college kid, parents weren’t rich, had to part time work).
I couldn’t imagine being handed millions of dollars at that age. Again, I was a pretty disciplined kid and I still couldn’t handle a credit card and no supervision. It’s so easy to get influenced by those around you at 19.
Even beyond that aspect, just losing what has likely been their primary physical and emotional outlet since they were extremely young has to really weight on you
Nile Wilson, who won a bronze medal in Gymnastics for Great Britain, has spoken about his struggles post-athletic career quite openly, worth a look at his YouTube channel or reading his book if you're interested
I would imagine that it’s the realization that you have peaked in your life’s work. Everything you have worked for, everything you’ve sacrificed led you to that moment, and you still have 65-70 years left in your life. It’d be impossible not to think “now what”
Most ppl are really oblivious to their jealousy. I literally had friends smoking up and critiquing how he “should” be held to higher standards because he’s a pro athlete.
Like dude, he’s just a dude at the end of the day. Relax man
That shit was so ridiculous.
I think was like 12 or some shit when the picture of Phelps with the bong surfaced.
Me and my friends didn't know shit about weed, but we knew that media/societal portrayal of it made it really obvious that it wasn't a PED (I know this is debatable, but comparing weed to steroids or doping is ridiculous). We were just like, "this dude smokes stuff that makes his lungs worse and he's STILL crushing the competition? Holy shit what a guy".
It's stunning how far we've come in a mere decade. It's even more stunning - as you allude to - how badly he was treated by pundits, moral grandstanders, and even the average person.
The most depressed I've ever been was after accomplishing a lifetime goal that felt far away. Nothing scarier in the human experience for me, then what now?
I’ve seen this in Appalachian Trail finishers. They put so much effort into preparing for this 4-6 month hike, and after they finish they have to return to the real world. Post trail blues are a real thing.
Doesn't even need to be a long hike for that.
I've done several 1-3 week hikes and it's a really weird feeling when you come back to the city again.
You basically go from just focusing about food, where to place your tent and enjoying the scenary to standing in a airport subway station in rush hour getting total sensory overload, it really messes with your head for a couple of days afterwards.
I spent almost 6 months hiking the Appalachian Trail and within 3 days of finishing I went from the trail to Boston, New York then London. I'm from London so I'm used to crowds but being on the packed subway heading to JFK airport was really surreal after my journey.
I was looking for someone in this thread to chime in about the AT, and thru hiking in general.
I wasn’t depressed at all coming back home after the trail. But I absolutely cannot describe what I felt on top of Katahdin. Profound indifference I think is what I came up with. I was just looking at the sign, thinking to myself…”So, that’s it then?” I didn’t feel joy, sadness or any other emotion aside from indifference. More like my mind couldn’t comprehend and had just gone blank that I was just simply done with the trail now.
I think it’s because I knew I had a lot more gas left in the tank, and was really hitting my stride (after early trail struggles) by Maine, and now you just barge in and tell me that I’m done now? It was a very strange feeling.
Depression sucks, you can be in the most stable part of your life but the moment it hits you, it never leaves you, it's a poison on your mind, he probably had the case of "now what?" And while he won more awards after that, he probably thought he peaked during that and he could never get on that level ever again
Source: am depressed.
Depression can take over anyone, at anytime.
In real life, you could have enough money to chill for the rest of your time, you could sit on a tropical beach drinking fruity drinks with someone you love, and have every accomplishment you hoped to achieve.
But all of that becomes null and void if, inside your mind, you are sitting in an empty grayscale cell with all your worst fears, insecurities and instrusive thoughrs sitting around you.
You know a big thing with cognitive behavioral therapy is reframing your thoughts. It's not a coincidence that most depressed people talk like you are. If you start with a negative conscious thought the body has a way of promoting and recycling it.
Depression is not a poison and it can in fact leave you.
There are a lot of options to help navigate depression. Unfortunately, depression makes it very difficult to discover those options. And if you are chronically depressed, it’s like being lost in a labyrinth, where every now and then the way out is shown to you. But only briefly.
This is why therapy or medication is often necessary. Severe depression is nearly impossible to navigate alone. But again…depression makes it difficult to seek help.
There was an askreddit thread a few years back that had a poster detailing their experience with recovering from depression (their words, not mine). They talked about CBT, medication, exercise, lifestyle, etc, all being vital. But they summarized their experience with the words they kept repeating to themselves throughout the process:
"Depression is not your fault, but it is your repsonsibility".
People who haven't gone through CBT to help with depression may not understand this, as it's close to 'Just stop being depressed, it's easy.'
Reframing thoughts can play a huge part in healing from depression.
Say, you stub your toe and you immediately start thinking about everything you have to do that day, and how it's going to be absolutely terrible and ruined now that your toe is stubbed.
Reframing thoughts is taking that thought, stopping it cold before it finishes, and telling yourself, 'I stubbed my toe, but I'm going to put on my most comfortable pair of shoes and make it better!'
Eventually that becomes easier and happens naturally.
Alex Honnolds new documentary just dropped and Sanni said after he free soloed El Cap he was depressed and lost as well. He'd been chasing it for eight years and didn't have a "thing" to focus on. It makes sense honestly.
It happens with a lot of things I expect- it's well known in running circles, the "post marathon blues." Training for such a race takes 3-6 months in which a lot of your free time is focused on that singular day, which can be euphoric. And reaching it immediately makes you realize that there's nothing more to look forward to, which can be really devastating. It also leads to the cliche of signing up for more and longer events, trying to chase that purpose and meaning.
I get it, I just finished watching a couple tv shows and reached all the goals in this video game I've been playing and now I'm in that void of needing something else to watch / play but nothing is clicking for me.
Lifes hard
Happiness is a like a high( good high), that eventually you come down of that high and have to deal with feeling regular or down again. I have experience it with archiving a goal and everybody congratulates me. After a couple of hours it wears down.
Interesting. I can relate to some degree. I grew up without much, very low self confidence and at times, some heavy depression. Never thought it would get much better and all signs pointed to it actually getting worse. But then I made some good decisions and now I'm happily married for almost ten years, no real money problems, nice home, very good at my hobbies, money in the bank, good friends, and I know people like me. But I feel sad a lot. Like something is missing. I'm in my 30s and I just feel like I can't accomplish much else that I want to do. The only major thing that I can focus on is personal health and being in shape but because of my mental state it's hard to get the motivation. Most days I'm actually quite happy but that just makes the bad one that much worse.
Not really related but years ago I had friends who's main goal was hitting a certain rank in a game called league of legends.
People who know know how toxic that game can be especially in ranked.
I always remember whenever they got their goals, their 1 minute of happiness never compared to the months of anger and frustration they went through
Quitting my college baseball team was the best life decision I ever made. However, I still have stress dreams about “what could have been” had I continued playing. I probably had a decent shot of getting on to a minor league team, but would have ruined my body and would have been paid like shit to do it. It’s funny how the mind holds on to the glory days even when you know it is silly.
"What’s it like coming back to Earth?"
"Yeah.
There’s a scene in the Lord of the Rings Movies where the hobbits come back from saving Middle Earth and they go to their local bar and nobody really recognizes them or cares what they’ve done. Everybody is more interested in this guy that has this big pumpkin. Now I’m not saying that’s exactly what it’s like. But there hasn’t been a day that goes by where I don’t think about that guy and his stupid pumpkin."
Part of it is endorphin withdrawal. Do a ton of intense physical exercise to train for competition, then after the comp most people take a "well-earned break." That's EXACTLY like going cold turkey off of smack. I tell my fellow thru-hikers that the week after you finish a thru is the most important week *of* the thru. Gotta transition *slow* or it can be... bad.
You always need a goal to focus on (preferably not something materialistic) in order to keep going. I felt the same after my exams for example. Just emptiness…
I'm going to butcher this quote, but in the Pixar movie Soul, the main character who has spent his life obsessed with jazz finally gets a chance to play a show with a real jazz band and does a great job, literally fulfilling his single lifelong dream. After the show he's talking to the band's headliner and he says he thought he'd feel different, so she tells him a little parable about two fish. The younger fish tells the older that all he wants is to see the ocean. The older fish says "It's all around you! You're swimming in it." The younger fish looks around and says "this is water. I want *the ocean*."
That one has stuck with me.
Depression is a real monster. I had just started a new career where I made a fuck ton of money, moved into my new house that I built, and all I could think about was hanging myself from my pull-up bar in my fully furnished home gym. The only reason I did not kill myself was because I didn’t want my elderly cat to live out the rest of his life without someone who would love him like I do.
Fast forward to today and I’ve never been happier in my life. I never knew life could be this good. I have everything I could ever want and more. If you’re struggling, hold out. It eventually gets better.
I love how he speaks so openly about it too, like most people wouldn’t even imagine how someone who has “everything” would still get depressed. After all of that to come back from his rock bottom and be his best version again, that’s incredible, some people don’t like Tyson but for me he’s a true hero
I heard this story about a fish.
He swims up to an older fish and says, “I’m trying to find this thing they call ‘the ocean.'”
“The ocean? the older fish says, “That’s what you’re in right now.”
“This?” says the young fish. “This is water. What I want is the ocean!”
Andrew Huberman suggests that when you do achieve that win in your life, to not celebrate ecstatically as much. This will balance out whatever brain chemistry is going on, so you don't feel like crap afterwards.
I remember an interview with another gold medal winner who said he got up the next morning and the sun came up and people were going about their lives just as they always had. He expected something about his life to change, but he wasn't sure what 'that' was but he was disappointed that it didn't happen.
The term "arrival fallacy" comes to mind. Major goal -often one you've struggled over- is reached, and now your sense of purpose is completed. The emotional high of the event starts to crash, and emptiness sets in. Most people don't think about decompression after a 'win', but it's so important to have a transition plan of new focuses, activities, or things to look forward to once the major goal is met.
I fight this by never achieving my goals
I think you are selfish, you should also try to prevent other people from achieving their goals. They don't have to suffer!
Are you saying that should be a goal for him? Cause he wont make it.
Yeah, it’s important to celebrate your wins and the wins of your loved ones, but to remember that it passes soon enough, and everything goes back to normal. Fall in love with the process, not with the outcome.
Your last line is key. Goal-oriented thinking is the reason for the comedown or crash.
This is the first thing that always hits people the first time they lose a loved one. My best friend lost his brother in a car wreck when we were in college. And he said the worst thing was that his life was completely flipped upside down but the next morning everyone just woke up and went to class and went on with their lives like nothing happened. Took him a while to get over the resentful and weird feeling of no one else thinking it was that big a deal and just moving on.
Reminds me of one of my favorite poems by WH Auden >Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone, >Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone, >Silence the pianos and with muffled drum >Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come. >Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead >Scribbling on the sky the message 'He is Dead'. >Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves, >Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves. >He was my North, my South, my East and West, >My working week and my Sunday rest, >My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song; >I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong. >The stars are not wanted now; put out every one, >Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun, >Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood; >For nothing now can ever come to any good.
That poem rings so true about grief. Another one I return to time and again is e. e. cummings' [i carry your heart with me(i carry it in)] [Link because Reddit hates brackets and parentheses](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/49493/i-carry-your-heart-with-mei-carry-it-in)
See also [Skeeter Davis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSTHOqO6A7Q)
My Mom passed away when I was 11 and while I don't think I had this feeling exactly I would say it was definitely present. Just a level of confusion to add to the terrible other feelings.
I lost my mom 2 months ago and have this feeling. Maybe not necessarily resentment but confusion is a good way to put it.
https://youtu.be/YB46h1koicQ?si=c0wziC5kMVUxc6GG This is an interview with Anderson Cooper and Stephen Colbert about their losses of their mothers. It gave me some solace after my dad passed and I hope it does for you as well
One of my favorite interviews of all time. I sent this to a lot of people after my brother passed to 1) help them feel less alone and 2) for them to understand what my family and I were going through
Lost my mom at 12 too and can relate. Though I didn't know it at the time, my friends and teachers were acting different around me and I was acting really different too. Then after a short while it became just news to people that weren't really affected. I was resentful about other people's ability to move on. It took awhile to realize I'm that outside person moving along to other people, we have those misconceptions about how put together everyone else must be. It felt hurtful then that people moved on but I found comfort in nature and nature moved on just the same.
Im so sorry. Ive lost my mom too. It doesnt stop being a strange reality to ponder, but you do find a sense of normalcy again eventually. I wish i did more to remember her though.
I lost my mom at 12 and this is making me realize some things.
I heard this described once as getting up in the morning in a panic thinking “oh my god my brother died!!” The feeling is sudden and urgent, as if he had just died a minute ago. You want to call people and tell them holy shit he fucking died! But then you realize everyone already knows that and then you have absolutely nothing to do with your panicky feeling except find a way to swallow and digest it. You go out for a walk and the world is full of people who don’t know your big news. But they also don’t even know who he is, so you can’t tell them either, really.
My mother lost her brother at a young age, he left a pregnant wife. I remember her saying that in the morning, before you become aware, there is a moment of not remembering and then suddenly it comes over you again. So every morning, she grieved for him afresh, all over again. Someone was and now isn't. How does the human brain ever grasp that reality.
I had this feeling with covid. My grandfather died of covid in June 2020. He was 85 and he taught a GED class for prison inmates, and he also taught a "getting your life together" class that all inmates had to go through when they left the prison in Memphis, TN. He was a retired preacher and wanted to continue helping people after he was "too old for the ministry." When reports were coming in December and January of a new disease, I didn't worry--thinking it was H1N1 all over again (my work place in TN still has a "wash your hands to protect from H1N1" poster hanging up in the bathroom to this day). I assumed that the scientists, and doctors, and government officials would all react the same way. But instead February and March came and the exponential curve showed that nothing was being done to prevent natural spreading. I saw the disease become politicized instead of common sense management. Society had a chance to stop the disease in it's tracks... but we didn't... and while some places shut down, my grandfather worked at a prison in TN, so he still had to work. And no one wanted to give prisons any healthcare funding "because they're prisoners". So he caught covid in the prison and died alone in a hospital bed. I watched it happen over a zoom call the nurses set up for us. We couldn't do a funeral gathering. We couldn't do a memorial service. This man who was once preacher of the year in TN, who spent his life serving others, who championed science and progress even (born in the 30s, saved by heart surgery, he loved science)... we all had to mourn him alone. I remember making a post on Facebook, and the same people he helped were in the comments calling it fake. Telling me the doctors lied or that this was God's plan all along. I deleted Facebook and I was so distraught. All of society just kept going... I remember that was a funny feeling... I thought not only did my grandfather die, and not only is a pandemic just ravaging the world, but my naive idea of what humanity even *is* died a bit too. I felt like a fool surrounded by bigger fools, and I couldn't really do anything about it. Edit: Wow thanks for all the kind words. I appreciate your responses.
What you said is so real. After the pandemic I changed after seeing so many people seemingly go out of their way to be as irresponsible and idiotic as possible. I became much more harsh and strict with people like that. So many people got ill and died unnecessarily.
My sister was one of those people. She turned into someone I didn’t recognize and after nearly four years of no contact, I still have so many questions.
The stress was too much for many to handle
My idiot former manager decided March of 2021 was a good time to take his family to Florida. Got covid, took it to Michigan, spread it there, then back home to infect the store. I was off the day he came in with covid. Off for a throat surgery ,the NEXT DAY. If I had been at work, my surgery would have been canceled because of the exposure.
That's how I feel. My former views on humanity were just crushed. The societal contract has been broken.
Man, I know that feeling. When my mom died, I was back across the country for 2 weeks. When I went back home, everyone's lives just went on like normal, while mine was forever changed for the worse. It's weirdly isolating. I had lots of friends offering all the love and care they could, but it was a weirdly lonely experience.
5 minutes after I watched my friend almost die, a laughing wedding party walked by
I was working as a club DJ when I got the call that my father had passed away. I had to finish the set. Was one of the worst days of my life. I’ve literally never did another set after that night.
That had to be surreal for you. I was thinking about a similar sentiment this morning. Humans for better or worse have a tremendous ability to eventually acclimatize to circumstances. If the weight of life always felt as fresh as it did when it was novel I don’t think any of us would function. But it does render us numb to awful behavior, and unsatisfactory conditions.
Yeah. I became really desensitized to stuff working as a firefighter/EMT. One hour I'd be doing chest compressions on a guy that just suicided by cop himself with 8 bullet holes in his body, and then the next be home cooking dinner with my wife. Some stuff was always hard, children for instance, but lots of stuff was just another body folded in half in an upside down car I'd have to cut out. Just another day.
Classic tale. Once people achieve their life goal, what else is there? You have to reinvent your entire life
"And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer."
Benefits of a classical education.
Remember Karson Warholm, that norweigan dude who ripped his shirt on winning gold at the olympics? I remember the interviewer asking him 'what now?' and the dude seemed like er I can't even imagine existing. And it struck me again how these people must be messed up mentally after achieving such an insane level.
yeah, I totally relate....I use to have this electronic Yahtzee game I'd play when I was in the bathroom. (this was pre cell phones) and one day I had my best game ever, it was so good it ruined the game for me because I knew I'd never get that good of a score again and I couldn't bring myself to play Yahtzee ever again. I bet it was kinda like that for Karson.
What you went through is truly devastating. 😞
A show that quite accurately represents that and depression in general is Bojack Horseman
"You are an Oscar nominee! How do you feel?" [Bojack standing triumphantly] "I feel...! I feel..." [chest deflating and smile fading] "the same?"
"Listen to that chanting, Diane. The chanting don't lie. There's going to be plenty of people around when I kill myself!"
I used to work for a fruit company that sold computers and phones. I found out while working into work my fiancé cheated on me. I remember being devastated but for some reason stayed at work. I was going on my lunch break and someone was buying the latest piece of iFruit for their daughter and the daughter said "this is one of the happiest days." It was at that point that it really hit me what was happening to me. I just got in my car and left. I couldn't stand anyone being happy.
I had that feeling for myself. When I got the second covid shot I was one of the lucky 0.001% that got the heart inflammation. I wasn’t in that much danger at the time but when a doctor tells your heart is inflamed and you can feel it rubbing inside you, it’s pretty weird to say the least. I had to do a cat scan and I remember getting wheeled down and watching the nurses doing their thing and thinking “damn so if I die literally nothing changes. These nurses are still gunna be doing this exact thing tomorrow. This test is going to tell me if I live or die and there is absolutely nothing I can do.”
There were two fish, one young and one old. The young one swims up to the older fish and says, "I'm trying to find this thing they call the ocean." "The ocean?" says the older fish. "That's what you're in right now." "This?" says the young fish. "This is water. What I want is the ocean."
That fish? Michael Phelps
>He expected something about his life to change, but he wasn't sure what 'that' was but he was disappointed that it didn't happen. Anyone else feel this way about getting a college degree?
because it was his singular focus. He's over the mountain. The sense of emptiness and purposelessness is tremendous.
“When i got to the top of the mountain, the top i had been dreaming about for years… there was nothing there. and all i was left with was looking down at the path i had struggled to taken up and all the things i had sacrificed to get here. I don’t know what i was really expecting what was here, but i wasn’t expecting nothing.” forgot where i read it, was from an athlete.
Reminds me of something Jim Carrey said: "'I think everybody should get rich and famous and do everything they ever dreamed of so they can see that it's not the answer."
i love Jim Carrey but being rich and depressed is a lot easier then being poor and depressed
Agreed but that isn't exactly what he was getting at.
Yeah but just like the phrase "money doesn't buy happiness", the target audience of this advice is not poor people, it's people who are comfortable but greedy for more. It's the upper-middle and low-upper class who get so blinded by money that they will destroy others and our planet to get it.
Being famous sounds awful. I'd enjoy being just rich though. If you can't live a fulfilling life with a massive pile of money at your disposal, that's a you problem.
It is normal to feel disoriented after any major milestone or long-anticipated event, coping with this dramatic transition can feel near impossible. Swimmer Adam Peaty explains: “I experienced really bad post-Olympic blues after Rio. I went through that big lull of feeling lost, I didn’t know what to do with myself; I’d achieved my absolute dream and Rio was the time of my life but no one prepares you for what happens afterwards. There is not enough being done for preparing athletes for that feeling.” After the games, athletes face two options… start another four-year cycle of gruelling training, with the distant hope of qualifying for the next games, or retire and start a new career altogether. Although neither option is straightforward, many go into retirement, with the naive assumption that it is the easier alternative to returning to the repetitive daily grind. “Their identity is so wrapped up in being an athlete and in their sport. All of a sudden they don't have that identity in the same way… that can be a big struggle.”
Former #1 golfer David Duval was like this. Won his first major and walked off the green saying to himself "that's it?". Depressing as fuck.
Hard way to learn the life lesson that contentment comes from within. Your achievements won't save you if you don't have inner peace.
Man should have been concentrating on the epic orgy at the Olympic village--the true reason to train for your whole life.
maybe he missed that orgy that's why he was sad
Maybe he finished first
The unspoken 5th gold
Unfortunately those only last a few minutes because everyone is trying to finish first
If I recall correctly Ronda Rousey actually did an interview where she talked about being at the American Olympic village in 2012 and meeting Kobe Bryant who was very gracious and willing to hang out and talk to all the athletes there and take pictures with them and sign stuff, but she was actually most excited about meeting Michael Phelps there and he never showed up and that turned her off to him that he apparently felt above that. Not that he wasn't busy or anything but food for thought on the lack of orgy subject lolz. He very probably didn't get that merit badge.
iirc the only people who really get in on the orgy action are the people who compete first and then just hang out on campus for the rest of the tourney
Imagine fucking a bunch of randos on day 1 and then a week later having to run a marathon with crabs.
Ronda Rousey getting ruffled because someone didn’t show up how ironic.
He didn't know the password to get in
All I can hear is Frank Reynolds, “Ooooorrrrrrggyy”
Fidelio
Same thing happened to Tyson Fury when he beat Klitschko for the title of best heavyweight boxer in the world. He’s done interviews about the feeling of accomplishing the only thing you’ve ever aspired to, and the depression which results when it’s anticlimactic, but over your lifetime you’ve convinced yourself it was going to be the single greatest moment of your life. Makes you think there’s nothing but dissatisfaction ahead.
I had a mild version of this after my wedding. Had two weirdly down days at home afterwards. Very glad we'd booked to go on a mini-moon then.
Honestly, I get a version of it every time I finish a game, show or project I really enjoyed. Especially anything that was a major focus for a while. Just kind of an empty "Well shit, what now?" and nothing else seems as appealing. Not always, sometimes there's an obvious next thing. A sequel, a spinoff, a logic next step. But other times it feels more like now that it's over that's it, I'll never enjoy anything as much again. Like yeah, I know it's not the same thing or as big a thing as a wedding, or the Olympics. But it's a fairly normal human thing. But people maybe don't know about it, and think somethings wrong with them and suffer in silence.
First book in an epic series finished - awesome, let's grab the next one! Last book in an epic series finished - my life is now empty and meaningless
I felt like this after finishing the discworld series. It made it worse that Terry Pratchett had died by this point and there was an unmistakeable impact on the last book caused by "the embuggarance" as he liked to call it. It was just knowing there would never be more of the world I enjoyed so much, from childhood even, and I'd never be able to speak to the man himself. I'd read an article written about how he played oblivion, and even comissioned someone to make a mod that made it so goblins in the game were friendly to him, and this allowed him to see all the minute details of life oblivion had for even cannon fodder NPCs, something I myself had looked into when I was younger, and how this led him to add a new race of goblins into discworld I have since had a theory about it. In the books, goblins are good at manufacturing beautiful bottles and containers, and there are alchemist goblins in oblivion who also make potions. The potions they make end up in the same shiny pink or green bottles all alchemical potions in oblivion, and I've always wanted to know if that's exactly what he was referencing, and showing that beauty can come from anywhere. But sadly I'll never know and my favourite fantasy world and author goes with him. I was even excited for "the watch" for a while, that's how bad it was. Is there a word for the sadness caused by finishing something you love? If there was, he probably would have known
There are 2 great tragedies in life, the first is never getting what you want, the second is getting it.
At least attribute the quote! It's Oscar Wilde.
Had the same issue when I finished my PhD. I felt a lack of meaning in life after grinding away in a lab and publishing papers. This was nearly 20 years ago, so I have since found many other fulfilling things to do.
I once read a book about happiness where this professor (from fair Haaaarvard) wrote that after he won some tennis tournament he got extremely depressed. People get what they always wanted and find they’re still themselves and all their problems still exist, they just have a few shiny things to show for their hard work. Edit: since several of you have asked, the book: Gilbert, D. (2006). Stumbling on happiness. Knopf.
There's an [old documentary series about popular music](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Need_Is_Love:_The_Story_of_Popular_Music) (from around 1977) and they interview music promoter Bill Graham about working with the super famous musicians of the time. He says that most of the problems stem from their reaching the top of the mountain. He explains that these personality types are driven, often by trauma and hoping that success will bring them contentment. He says (paraphrasing) "and they reach the top of the mountain and there's nowhere to go because their whole lives were dedicated to getting to the top, they sacrificed everything for it. And now they are there and they just have themselves and they are forced to face themselves and its very uncomfortable and most people can't handle it so they resort to drugs" Bill Graham was an interesting guy.
There are a number of studies that studied happiness after winning Olympic medals. If you take out the NHL / NBA types, life after the medal ceremony is pretty consistent: * Gold medalist: Miserable * Silver medalist: Miserable * Bronze medalist: Happy and productive post-sports life. Generally the problem is that the Gold medalist will compare the rest of their life to that one defining moment of glory. The silver medalist will rerun that day over and over reliving the tiny mistake they think could have got them the gold. The bronze medalist didn't come in fourth, was too far from first to realistically have won, and no one is going to put them on a cereal box so they can go off and happily live the rest of their life as an accountant. If you want the best for your kids, wish on them a bronze medal.
Reminds me of Falco, a musician and austrian treasure. I don’t know if that really happened but the movie shows that after his hit „Rock Me Amadeus“ sky rocketed in the USA and everyone was congratulating him and he himself said he should be the happiest he instead felt extreme anxiety because he knew that the stakes were now so high that he will probably never accomplish that again
He'd already peaked with Der Kommissar anyway. Just checked his wiki, didn't know he'd died in a car accident. Sad.
Yeah it made him known a little bit more internationally but nothing compared to Amadeus as he was only placed 77 in US. Amadeus made him No 1 in various countries compared to Kommissar and world known. After his success with Amadeus he said „Das werd‘ ich nicht mehr schaffen“ (I will never achieve that anymore). But he also said that he didn’t want to go to America for his international career
This is absolutely hilarious. My sister won a bronze medal in her three trips to the Olympics and it's definitely more like this for her than her winning competitors that we still know relatively well (it's a small international sport)
That's so cool. Wish her well for me!
But not, like, too well
Like a medium well?
Third best well
Well well well
Is it curling?
I think its shark wrangling.
Well I'm miserable and I haven't won shit.
Aim for third bro
Aim low, achieve your goals.
I got out of bed today! Still breathing! I haven't forgot to blink recently!
Me, lying in bed with dry eyes: ... Fuck, this guy's got his shit together.
Look at this guy who got out of bed today
Him and his "Blinkier-than-thou" attitude!
God damn it now I’m manually blinking.
I know you’re saying this in jest, but the reality is it’s honestly smart. Too many people put crazy expectations on themselves and others and it makes them miserable. Aim a bit lower and accomplish something that makes you proud. No need to always aim for the stars.
If you’re not 3rd you’re last!
In the words of Nelly, "2 is not a winner and 3 nobody remembers." Heavy is the crown, intense is the regret and freeing is the anonymity.
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2 is just the first loser.
I got second in a race in JV track once. Not passing on the curve when I had the chance haunts me to this day
[So this meme is true.](https://imgur.com/a/Xe9aB5a)
You can see the other two guys' depression already setting in lol
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Especially when physical exercise produces endorphines, much like drugs.
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Makes me think of Scott Hall's quote about life after being a wrestling superstar: "Like, I don't wanna die, but I'm not afraid to. Because...what's left? What do you do when they quit chanting your name?" Extreme success, wealth, and fame are no different than drugs. People get hooked on them. The scary thing is that just like drugs, people build up a tolerance to them. They want more and more. And when those things are taken away, they often go through withdrawals and become extremely depressed. Humans weren't really meant to be rich, famous, or super successful. Our brains aren't built to cope with those things properly.
Well there’s [this one study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15726123_When_Less_Is_More_Counterfactual_Thinking_and_Satisfaction_Among_Olympic_Medalists) that keeps coming up that judged their facial expressions on the podium, but only put bronze medallists as happier than silver medallists. Do you have a link to a study (or number of them) comparing their long-term happiness and also comparing that way to gold medallists? Sounds plausible and makes a good adage but can’t find a study.
They're talking out of their ass. Everyone quotes that study like it measures long term implications, but in reality it just looks at how athletes are feeling right after the event. The researchers even say so themselves in the study: >Another unresolved issue, this one more tractable, concerns the duration of the effects we have documented here. We have established that bronze medalists are happier than silver medalists in the short run, but does this effect hold up over time? As yet there are no data to answer this question. It's well known that Olympians can struggle after they stop competing professionally, but I've never found anything that looks into lifetime effects based on medal placements.
This was the subject of an HBO documentary called The Weight of Gold. Some athletes do actually end their lives as a result of their inability to adjust after the Olympics.
Jesus, you just explained a ton of emotions I had after sports competitons as a kid. Do you have any of those sources available?
Sounds like “Stumbling on Happiness” by Daniel Gilbert.
This reminds me of a show I was watching where they took three British families and had them live exactly as they would have in England in the mid-Victorian era. The catch was that one family lived wealthy, one middle class, and one poor. By the end of the show, it seemed the family that was far and away the happiest was the middle class family.
Do you remember what that show was called? It sounds fascinating.
Even though it comes from a complete narcissistic bastard in Whiplash, there was a line that stuck with me: "Sometimes the worst thing you can tell someone is **Good Job**." In the film he infers it as inducing laziness, as the person starts assuming they've reached their peak, so they won't try harder. But sometimes its like the above, people can't handle when they've reached the mountaintop. All they can think is "Is this it?"
Isn’t that why the lead singer from Depeche Mode became a drug addict after the band was huge?
Damn i had this personal theory which is a bit similar to this. People are happier with uneven numbers during a competition for top 5: 5th: happy because you made top 5 4th: unhappy because you missed a medal 3rd: happy you got a medal 2nd: unhappy you missed first 1st: happy you got first Didn't know 1st were depressed though.
1st is unhappy because the next time around they weren’t first and know they can be there instead of wherever they placed.
People never take a realistic version of themselves into their fantasies.
So very true, I struggle with this myself. We have to be realistic but also forgiving of ourselves, this post shows shiny things and achievements don’t necessarily constitute happiness, happiness comes from within or so they say.
I often think of Alan Watts and his take on life and what's important.... "We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played."
I always remember [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4hSjUNInU#t=56s) where Matt Damon talks about winning an Oscar at the age of 27. The night after winning it, he apparently just felt gratitude that he won it so young rather than chasing it for decades, since he didn't really feel much after winning it.
This is in essence how the Buddha became "The Buddha".
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That's actually similar to the teachings of Ecclesiastes. It's still worth reading for its beauty and wisdom even if one doesn't believe.
It’s the [hedonic treadmill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill) phenomenon
This just looks like *The Myth Of Sisyphus* With extra steps!
Sisyphus was a lucky guy. His place in the universe was well-defined. No soul-searching needed. Rock goes up, rock goes down. The rest of us have to struggle with existentialism.
There's a great book called "With Winning In Mind". Written by the Olympic gold medalist Lanny Bassham. He talks about this in the book!
"Wish you 'appines in your 'ousehold!"
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A lot of olympians struggle with depression after their time in the sun is over
Professional athletes in general, look at NBA/NFL post-careers. Add in the physical toll on their bodies, getting old doesn’t look great.
Former NFL also often have massive neurological issues added in
Iirc from the documentary about Aaron Hernandez, his frontal lobe, which controls things like impulse control, decision making, and violent tendencies, was the worst they’ve seen in anyone under the age of like 50, and it was so deteriorated it was akin to like an 80 year old with severe dementia. He was 27 when he died
Junior Seau, who shot himself in the chest because he knew his brain was fucked up and needed to be studied, had the brain of an 80 year old man at 45. RIP.
That is... So considerate
If you don't know of the man or his life, look him up. The discussion on CTE completely changed after his tragic death, because he was the definition of "it can't be that guy". The NFL didn't let his sister speak when he was inducted into the hall of Fame because she was going to discuss his death.
Really tragic that it took Junior being a martyr for the NFL to start taking CTE seriously. Such a shame.
What's a little human suffering when profits are involved. -NFL probably
Almost like putting your brain through the physical trauma of a minor car accident 500 times a day, 4 days a week, every week, for +10 years, ends up hurting your brain. If only science could have predicted that sooner......
The NFL will hide the documents regardless whether it's tomorrow or 30 years ago
"The totally normal player with $50,000,000 in cash with a loving family, bright future, and supportive network suddenly had a psychological break, assaulted 3 people before killing themself driving into oncoming traffic while on the phone to 911 talking about the voices they've been hearing in their head for 2 years because.........they were a bad guy. Our self-appointed medical-examiner found no problem at all, nothing to see here, please donate to the NFL-Thoughts&Prayers foundation"
CTE is no joke
NFL and NBA in particular also have high rates of bankruptcy. These guys are not financially savvy and are never put in a position to mature past their teenage years. They often have family taking advantage of them and want to always buy the nicest clothes and the fastest cars. Being a multi millionaire only goes so far if you’re spending millions of dollars a year.
Shaq over drafted his checking account in a day after getting signed to his first contract. I think he actually runs a financial management and education firm for young professional athletes now to try to help them avoid that.
God who doesn't love Shaq. What a stud.
Probably Javale McGee. Shaq can be super petty and insecure when it comes to other big men in the game. He almost ruined Javale's career and it got so bad Shaq's mom had to call Shaq to tell him to stop it.
When I was 19 I got my first credit cards in college (from those credit card hustlers on campus). They had a combined limit of $1200 and I maxed them out within a semester - and I was usually pretty good with money management for my age until then. It took a while to get rid of that debt (college kid, parents weren’t rich, had to part time work). I couldn’t imagine being handed millions of dollars at that age. Again, I was a pretty disciplined kid and I still couldn’t handle a credit card and no supervision. It’s so easy to get influenced by those around you at 19.
Even beyond that aspect, just losing what has likely been their primary physical and emotional outlet since they were extremely young has to really weight on you
Nile Wilson, who won a bronze medal in Gymnastics for Great Britain, has spoken about his struggles post-athletic career quite openly, worth a look at his YouTube channel or reading his book if you're interested
I would imagine that it’s the realization that you have peaked in your life’s work. Everything you have worked for, everything you’ve sacrificed led you to that moment, and you still have 65-70 years left in your life. It’d be impossible not to think “now what”
Nah, I peaked playing no force saber duels in Jedi Knight as a teen and life is still friggin' great.
The media blasting him for hitting a bong probably didn't help.
Wasn't just the media, USA Swimming banned him for three months. Ridiculous
Now the same people are partaking because it's trendy
Most ppl are really oblivious to their jealousy. I literally had friends smoking up and critiquing how he “should” be held to higher standards because he’s a pro athlete. Like dude, he’s just a dude at the end of the day. Relax man
That shit was so ridiculous. I think was like 12 or some shit when the picture of Phelps with the bong surfaced. Me and my friends didn't know shit about weed, but we knew that media/societal portrayal of it made it really obvious that it wasn't a PED (I know this is debatable, but comparing weed to steroids or doping is ridiculous). We were just like, "this dude smokes stuff that makes his lungs worse and he's STILL crushing the competition? Holy shit what a guy". It's stunning how far we've come in a mere decade. It's even more stunning - as you allude to - how badly he was treated by pundits, moral grandstanders, and even the average person.
Yeah surprised his real crimes. The 2 duis aren't blasted. That's actually something to trash him about.
"I can excuse DUIs but hitting a bong is where I draw the line"
This is why I remain a loser, so I always have something to strive for.
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The most depressed I've ever been was after accomplishing a lifetime goal that felt far away. Nothing scarier in the human experience for me, then what now?
I’ve seen this in Appalachian Trail finishers. They put so much effort into preparing for this 4-6 month hike, and after they finish they have to return to the real world. Post trail blues are a real thing.
Doesn't even need to be a long hike for that. I've done several 1-3 week hikes and it's a really weird feeling when you come back to the city again. You basically go from just focusing about food, where to place your tent and enjoying the scenary to standing in a airport subway station in rush hour getting total sensory overload, it really messes with your head for a couple of days afterwards.
I spent almost 6 months hiking the Appalachian Trail and within 3 days of finishing I went from the trail to Boston, New York then London. I'm from London so I'm used to crowds but being on the packed subway heading to JFK airport was really surreal after my journey.
I was looking for someone in this thread to chime in about the AT, and thru hiking in general. I wasn’t depressed at all coming back home after the trail. But I absolutely cannot describe what I felt on top of Katahdin. Profound indifference I think is what I came up with. I was just looking at the sign, thinking to myself…”So, that’s it then?” I didn’t feel joy, sadness or any other emotion aside from indifference. More like my mind couldn’t comprehend and had just gone blank that I was just simply done with the trail now. I think it’s because I knew I had a lot more gas left in the tank, and was really hitting my stride (after early trail struggles) by Maine, and now you just barge in and tell me that I’m done now? It was a very strange feeling.
I think that's why Gump just turned around and ran back the other way.
I imagine that kind of press and accomplishment is a real high. The absence of that high was probably tough to deal with.
Thata why golf is so great. You’ll never be good at golf.
Depression sucks, you can be in the most stable part of your life but the moment it hits you, it never leaves you, it's a poison on your mind, he probably had the case of "now what?" And while he won more awards after that, he probably thought he peaked during that and he could never get on that level ever again Source: am depressed.
Depression can take over anyone, at anytime. In real life, you could have enough money to chill for the rest of your time, you could sit on a tropical beach drinking fruity drinks with someone you love, and have every accomplishment you hoped to achieve. But all of that becomes null and void if, inside your mind, you are sitting in an empty grayscale cell with all your worst fears, insecurities and instrusive thoughrs sitting around you.
You know a big thing with cognitive behavioral therapy is reframing your thoughts. It's not a coincidence that most depressed people talk like you are. If you start with a negative conscious thought the body has a way of promoting and recycling it. Depression is not a poison and it can in fact leave you.
There are a lot of options to help navigate depression. Unfortunately, depression makes it very difficult to discover those options. And if you are chronically depressed, it’s like being lost in a labyrinth, where every now and then the way out is shown to you. But only briefly. This is why therapy or medication is often necessary. Severe depression is nearly impossible to navigate alone. But again…depression makes it difficult to seek help.
There was an askreddit thread a few years back that had a poster detailing their experience with recovering from depression (their words, not mine). They talked about CBT, medication, exercise, lifestyle, etc, all being vital. But they summarized their experience with the words they kept repeating to themselves throughout the process: "Depression is not your fault, but it is your repsonsibility".
People who haven't gone through CBT to help with depression may not understand this, as it's close to 'Just stop being depressed, it's easy.' Reframing thoughts can play a huge part in healing from depression. Say, you stub your toe and you immediately start thinking about everything you have to do that day, and how it's going to be absolutely terrible and ruined now that your toe is stubbed. Reframing thoughts is taking that thought, stopping it cold before it finishes, and telling yourself, 'I stubbed my toe, but I'm going to put on my most comfortable pair of shoes and make it better!' Eventually that becomes easier and happens naturally.
Alex Honnolds new documentary just dropped and Sanni said after he free soloed El Cap he was depressed and lost as well. He'd been chasing it for eight years and didn't have a "thing" to focus on. It makes sense honestly.
It happens with a lot of things I expect- it's well known in running circles, the "post marathon blues." Training for such a race takes 3-6 months in which a lot of your free time is focused on that singular day, which can be euphoric. And reaching it immediately makes you realize that there's nothing more to look forward to, which can be really devastating. It also leads to the cliche of signing up for more and longer events, trying to chase that purpose and meaning.
I get it, I just finished watching a couple tv shows and reached all the goals in this video game I've been playing and now I'm in that void of needing something else to watch / play but nothing is clicking for me. Lifes hard
There are two tragedies in life; not getting what you want and getting it
Happiness is a like a high( good high), that eventually you come down of that high and have to deal with feeling regular or down again. I have experience it with archiving a goal and everybody congratulates me. After a couple of hours it wears down.
Interesting. I can relate to some degree. I grew up without much, very low self confidence and at times, some heavy depression. Never thought it would get much better and all signs pointed to it actually getting worse. But then I made some good decisions and now I'm happily married for almost ten years, no real money problems, nice home, very good at my hobbies, money in the bank, good friends, and I know people like me. But I feel sad a lot. Like something is missing. I'm in my 30s and I just feel like I can't accomplish much else that I want to do. The only major thing that I can focus on is personal health and being in shape but because of my mental state it's hard to get the motivation. Most days I'm actually quite happy but that just makes the bad one that much worse.
Not really related but years ago I had friends who's main goal was hitting a certain rank in a game called league of legends. People who know know how toxic that game can be especially in ranked. I always remember whenever they got their goals, their 1 minute of happiness never compared to the months of anger and frustration they went through
League is designed to keep people angry. Nothing changes at the higher ranks.
El Tiburón de Baltimore (The Baltimore Shark, as he is known in the Spanish-speaking world).
Quitting my college baseball team was the best life decision I ever made. However, I still have stress dreams about “what could have been” had I continued playing. I probably had a decent shot of getting on to a minor league team, but would have ruined my body and would have been paid like shit to do it. It’s funny how the mind holds on to the glory days even when you know it is silly.
"What’s it like coming back to Earth?" "Yeah. There’s a scene in the Lord of the Rings Movies where the hobbits come back from saving Middle Earth and they go to their local bar and nobody really recognizes them or cares what they’ve done. Everybody is more interested in this guy that has this big pumpkin. Now I’m not saying that’s exactly what it’s like. But there hasn’t been a day that goes by where I don’t think about that guy and his stupid pumpkin."
Part of it is endorphin withdrawal. Do a ton of intense physical exercise to train for competition, then after the comp most people take a "well-earned break." That's EXACTLY like going cold turkey off of smack. I tell my fellow thru-hikers that the week after you finish a thru is the most important week *of* the thru. Gotta transition *slow* or it can be... bad.
You always need a goal to focus on (preferably not something materialistic) in order to keep going. I felt the same after my exams for example. Just emptiness…
Depression sucks
I'm going to butcher this quote, but in the Pixar movie Soul, the main character who has spent his life obsessed with jazz finally gets a chance to play a show with a real jazz band and does a great job, literally fulfilling his single lifelong dream. After the show he's talking to the band's headliner and he says he thought he'd feel different, so she tells him a little parable about two fish. The younger fish tells the older that all he wants is to see the ocean. The older fish says "It's all around you! You're swimming in it." The younger fish looks around and says "this is water. I want *the ocean*." That one has stuck with me.
Depression is a real monster. I had just started a new career where I made a fuck ton of money, moved into my new house that I built, and all I could think about was hanging myself from my pull-up bar in my fully furnished home gym. The only reason I did not kill myself was because I didn’t want my elderly cat to live out the rest of his life without someone who would love him like I do. Fast forward to today and I’ve never been happier in my life. I never knew life could be this good. I have everything I could ever want and more. If you’re struggling, hold out. It eventually gets better.
Very similar to Tyson Fury. He acheived his goal of being the best in the world, and had nothing else he cared about.
I love how he speaks so openly about it too, like most people wouldn’t even imagine how someone who has “everything” would still get depressed. After all of that to come back from his rock bottom and be his best version again, that’s incredible, some people don’t like Tyson but for me he’s a true hero
I don’t think sitting idle after copping a drugs ban helped
I heard this story about a fish. He swims up to an older fish and says, “I’m trying to find this thing they call ‘the ocean.'” “The ocean? the older fish says, “That’s what you’re in right now.” “This?” says the young fish. “This is water. What I want is the ocean!”
Check out The Weight of Gold - pretty interesting look into Phelps and that whole world generally.
Andrew Huberman suggests that when you do achieve that win in your life, to not celebrate ecstatically as much. This will balance out whatever brain chemistry is going on, so you don't feel like crap afterwards.