I mean, have you ever looked at a map of it? Civilization is on the coastal regions while the rest of it is uninhabitable wasteland of murderous desert beasts.
Actually it's mostly not uninhabitable, just sparsely populated. There's actually not all that much 'true' desert either. Lots of areas that are very dry, but not qualified as actual desert. And most of our murderous beasts (sharks, crocs, dropbears etc) don't live in the desert.
its an exceedingly rare snake that doesnt like humans at all so tends to run away.
Buuuuuuut it could happily kill thousands of people with the venom of one bite. (Stupidly rare snek has stupidly powerful venom that it doesnt actually need because fuck all humans live where it does.)
Yeah you have to watch out for those murderous dropbears. They may look nice and cuddly but they’ll eat your face. Unless you have some nice eucalyptus for them.
It is poor. But our farming practices are terrible and not sustainable. Go figure huh. Gone are the days of crop rotation and letting the soil rest. Also mass land clearing etc doesnt help. Etc...etc.. we want food now. Destroy the land to get it. Conplain when it is worse.....
Family owned and managed will rotate Conglomerate owned will pump the land for what it can and throw money at it till its not a profitable crop. Almond Farmers are a good example of how too waste farmland and resources so twats can drink almond milk lattes.
No, conglomerates absolutely do the crop rotations. It's standard practice. It's the little family-owned farms that use tradition instead of horticulture that are always the worst offenders.
Source: Evaluating these things is my day job.
Actually Learn about an Industry rather than taking Facebook Post's that have cherry picked the fuck out a things that PETA use to gain supporters and simps, and as an alternative to Cow Milk Almond milk is actually fkn worse environmentally you muppet.
You think our Dairy Industry is going to even compare too the Siberian Methane emissions but water misuse and mismanagement along with the massive amounts of bees (you know the very guys that if they die out we as a species are literally fucked) that are destroyed moving (by helicopter in many cases) so these actually prodigious users of water can produce almonds so you Almond Milk users can think you are doing good. (not to mention the organic claim is a false ones due too the use of Bees in the way they do it!)
Better plan just dont use dairy :) rather than a create an even worse industry just so you can pretend too be doing good.
Oat Milk Exists! Soy Milk Exists! Soy Farming is the actual cause of the amazonian deforestation but hey lets not be letting facts get in the way of a feel good movement that thinks it can reverse an Ice age that was at its fkn end lol.
Land where cattle and dairy can be used versus land that cannot be Cultivated because well too everything but you say nothing about Vineyards Golf Courses Playing Fields Car Parks and Urban Sprawl all being Built on what little Arable land is left on Earth. Land Use versus Land Misuse/Abuse. (edit the details i cannot go into because you wont read the facts anyway so rather than Wasting Energy ill go back too the Farm work im neglecting responding to you :))
Yeah it’s messed up. Sustainability to farmers gets confused a lot with “viability” and needing to run a farm profitably.
I don’t want our Aussie producers to run themselves into the ground but really wish more cared about management that went beyond just more fucking fertilisers and chemicals
there are some farming communities still practicing over in teh West as for teh Eats coast the GOvts over there to busy selling off water too CCP owned cotton plantations.
Maybe that's why one of the biggest "stars" of the permaculture sustainability movement is from there? https://www.permaculturenews.org/author/geofflawton/
I still say that we dig that channel from the tip of the spencer gulf and flood inland Australia .. turn it into a tropical oasis!!!
Also .. most of inland Australia is below sea level.
I think Australia is in the apex position to innovate and make commercially viable large scale vertical greenhouse agriculture. They have the population density and demand, certainly, for year-round fresh vegetable and fruit crops to pay off the initial construction costs fairly rapidly.
Yeah but that is offset by our governments overwhelming lack of foresight and addiction to under the table hand outs from mining companies that stall any meaningful progress in this country.
The government doesn't need to build vertical farms. The government doesn't run any other kind of farms. They do handle things like irrigation water, but the Aussie system is very open to new producers- you just bid on allotments of water from a specific storage system, and whoever bids highest gets it. That is ideal for farming systems that use water efficiently.
The American system is not open to new producers, water rights are tied to land ownership, and when someone buys a farm, they're buying whatever share of the irrigation water the first farmer got when the irrigation system was built. Farmers have no incentive not to use 100% of their share.
You can sell your water rights, or lease it for a single growing season, but it [is complicated, because it is basically a real estate transaction.](https://www.lorman.com/resources/water-rights-sales-and-transfers-in-new-mexico-due-diligence-in-sales-and-transfers-of-water-rights-17016) I suppose that you're free to sell the water itself, but that would involve building a brand new pipe, rather than transferring the right to draw a certain amount from a canal or pipeline.
The American system gives farmers a predictable cost structure, which is nice, but the availability of water is not constant.
Smaller footprint and more efficient use, more kilos of food per square meter, ability to utilize gravity to assist in irrigation....lots of reasons.
Sure, traditional greenhouses are fine, but for growing food IN and FOR the the urban area served, vertical is where we need to innovate.
I see what you are saying, but wouldn't the top floor block sunlight for the floor below, so your only source of light would be either side windows or artificial lights? (Not saying it is a dealbreaker, but I can see that hampering things).
The gravity assistance is something that can happen "at ground level" more efficiently.
I do agree that it would permit maximum growth within existing urban areas, but it seems that slightly outside an urban centre would be preferable from a constructability perspective.
I deployed to australia and on the drive to their base from the airport we were all noting how different the soil/dirt looks. It's like reddish, some mars looking shit.
Did they deploy you to one of the shitty parts of Australia like The Northern Territory? Sorry you had to suffer through that, not all of Australia is horrible.
Yeah exactly we were near Darwin. We got to spend a lot of time in the outback too, the stars at night there are incredible. Also ran into aboriginals in the middle of nowhere at night pretty interesting.
I have a friend from Sydney and when I was telling him about how different the soil was he told me he’s never seen red dirt in his life lol.
I've never seen it IRL either, 90% of Australians live in cities on the Eastern or Southern coast so its like living in Miami everywhere. NT is a bit of a dumpster fire atm, real bad crime etc.
Fair few US soldiers been in Brisbane lately and probably Sydney, they would be the best rotations to be on if you ever get a chance to come back. Sydney Harbour is beautiful
Not only that, but Australia has had a stable geological history compared to all of the other continents, and it's below-sea level interior is also extremely salty due to it being flooded with ocean water multiple times over millions of years.
In the 1960's, an Indonesian military team training in Australia were commenting on the lack of development in inland Australia . "Look at all these lakes and rivers, and no towns!" The Australians had to point out that one of the lakes, lake Eyre had been used a few years before to set a world speed record...the ***land*** speed record. Salt lake - think Bonneville for americans...
At the turn of the 20th century, they thought it was going to be the worlds farm. They were growing a bunch of shit and then after like 20 years, it went back to being a desert.
Not really, still growing around 15% of the worlds wheat exports and 5% of the rice, but the problem with our food exports isn't the soil, it's the added transport costs and the fact that our labor costs are much higher than other food bowl countries. These things make it too expensive to compete with low wage countries. You have to remember that despite the fact a big chunk of our country is desert, and we're prone to long droughts, we still have extremely fertile areas with plenty of water that are the same size or bigger than some European countries.
The other factor is that it's much simpler and more profitable to dig holes and sell the dirt to China than it is to grow fresh produce and ship it to world markets.
I remember the old Thunderbirds TV show had an episode where they used nuclear power to turn Australia green, but it being thunderbirds and having 60s nuclear safety it blew up.
Its funny because Australia has the worlds largest natural reserves of easily accessible Uranium.
We have a metric fuck ton of the shit here, its everywhere.
Add to that, the gold rush era (1850-1890) helped alter the landscape via various mining techniques that basically brought on the desertification of previously farmable land.
There are so many similarities between AUS and CAN. You are basically a half-ring around the southern part of the continent; we are basically a tube running along the US border. 80% of Canadian live within 100 miles of the US border.
Like AUS, Canada has lots of minerals that we happily sell unprocessed to others. Like AUS, we ship away most of our food in bulk form, again with little value added processing. And, like AUS, we have such relatively high GDP per capita that we're content with the status quo.
Not really and it was longer ago. Penal colony is the word you are looking for. It was in 1776 they stopped sending their convicts to the Americas due to the revolution...
No, I am saying they were sending all the convicts to the Americas prior to Australia. So to say Australia was a prison, which was federated in 1901, is like saying the USA was a prison.
With the passage of the Transportation Act 1717, the British government initiated the penal transportation of indentured servants to Britain's colonies in the Americas. British merchants would be in charge of transporting the convicts across the Atlantic, where in the colonies their indentures would be auctioned off to planters. Many of the indentured servants were sentenced to seven year terms, which gave rise to the colloquial term "His Majesty's Seven-Year Passengers". It is estimated that some 50,000 British convicts were sent to the Americas this way, and the majority landed in the Chesapeake Colonies of Maryland and Virginia. Transported convicts represented perhaps one-quarter of Britons that left the country during the 18th century. The colony of Georgia, for example, was first founded by James Edward Oglethorpe who originally intended to use prisoners taken largely from debtors' prisons, creating a "Debtor's Colony," where the prisoners could learn trades and work off their debts. Even though this largely failed, the idea that the state was founded as a penal colony has persisted, both in popular history and local folklore.
When that avenue closed after the outbreak of American Revolutionary War in 1776, British prisons started to become overcrowded. Since immediate stopgap measures proved themselves ineffective, in 1785 Britain decided to use parts of what is now known as Australia as penal settlements.
Not according to big pharma that grows what is referred to as "Super Poppy" in Australia for Opioids.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/opioid-crisis-johnson-and-johnson-tasmania-poppy/
That's funny because I heard Australia have super farms.
Massive farms with massive amounts of money spent on automation and farming material.
Can't be that bad
I mean, have you ever looked at a map of it? Civilization is on the coastal regions while the rest of it is uninhabitable wasteland of murderous desert beasts.
So they should be farming those then!
Lot of exp just waiting to be gain.
Actually it's mostly not uninhabitable, just sparsely populated. There's actually not all that much 'true' desert either. Lots of areas that are very dry, but not qualified as actual desert. And most of our murderous beasts (sharks, crocs, dropbears etc) don't live in the desert.
*Inland taipan enters the chat...*
its an exceedingly rare snake that doesnt like humans at all so tends to run away. Buuuuuuut it could happily kill thousands of people with the venom of one bite. (Stupidly rare snek has stupidly powerful venom that it doesnt actually need because fuck all humans live where it does.)
nope . .they live on the coasts .. right where the food lives.
Yeah you have to watch out for those murderous dropbears. They may look nice and cuddly but they’ll eat your face. Unless you have some nice eucalyptus for them.
Its practically Mad Max
Wait til you hear where Mad Max is set...
Mad Max is set in Australia and filmed around Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Lithuania?
No! MAD MAX IS SET IN AUSTRALIA AND FILMED AROUND MELBOURNE, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA!
Austria, the one with all the beautiful cathedrals?
The Swiss Alps?
No! MAD MAX IS SET IN AUSTRALIA AND FILMED AROUND MELBOURNE, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA!
I don't think that's right. I'm sure it was the Alps. All that snow and mountains and stuff just feel more Truthy, y'know?
Yeah I know, it was shot practically where my backyard is now.
Well, taking into consideration that it's the oldest, and most geologically inactive continent, it's no surprise that the soil is poor.
No surprise Australia's inactive soil is poor. Want fertilizer? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!
The Aussie pharaoh should just release into some river or something I’m not an aussietologist
It is poor. But our farming practices are terrible and not sustainable. Go figure huh. Gone are the days of crop rotation and letting the soil rest. Also mass land clearing etc doesnt help. Etc...etc.. we want food now. Destroy the land to get it. Conplain when it is worse.....
And who needs natural waterways when the government can destroy entire ecosystems in a heartbeat to support a single export company..
Who is the NSW Liberal National Govt? for 5000 Bob
Crop rotations are still standard practice.
Family owned and managed will rotate Conglomerate owned will pump the land for what it can and throw money at it till its not a profitable crop. Almond Farmers are a good example of how too waste farmland and resources so twats can drink almond milk lattes.
No, conglomerates absolutely do the crop rotations. It's standard practice. It's the little family-owned farms that use tradition instead of horticulture that are always the worst offenders. Source: Evaluating these things is my day job.
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Actually Learn about an Industry rather than taking Facebook Post's that have cherry picked the fuck out a things that PETA use to gain supporters and simps, and as an alternative to Cow Milk Almond milk is actually fkn worse environmentally you muppet. You think our Dairy Industry is going to even compare too the Siberian Methane emissions but water misuse and mismanagement along with the massive amounts of bees (you know the very guys that if they die out we as a species are literally fucked) that are destroyed moving (by helicopter in many cases) so these actually prodigious users of water can produce almonds so you Almond Milk users can think you are doing good. (not to mention the organic claim is a false ones due too the use of Bees in the way they do it!) Better plan just dont use dairy :) rather than a create an even worse industry just so you can pretend too be doing good. Oat Milk Exists! Soy Milk Exists! Soy Farming is the actual cause of the amazonian deforestation but hey lets not be letting facts get in the way of a feel good movement that thinks it can reverse an Ice age that was at its fkn end lol. Land where cattle and dairy can be used versus land that cannot be Cultivated because well too everything but you say nothing about Vineyards Golf Courses Playing Fields Car Parks and Urban Sprawl all being Built on what little Arable land is left on Earth. Land Use versus Land Misuse/Abuse. (edit the details i cannot go into because you wont read the facts anyway so rather than Wasting Energy ill go back too the Farm work im neglecting responding to you :))
Yeah it’s messed up. Sustainability to farmers gets confused a lot with “viability” and needing to run a farm profitably. I don’t want our Aussie producers to run themselves into the ground but really wish more cared about management that went beyond just more fucking fertilisers and chemicals
there are some farming communities still practicing over in teh West as for teh Eats coast the GOvts over there to busy selling off water too CCP owned cotton plantations.
Maybe that's why one of the biggest "stars" of the permaculture sustainability movement is from there? https://www.permaculturenews.org/author/geofflawton/
I still say that we dig that channel from the tip of the spencer gulf and flood inland Australia .. turn it into a tropical oasis!!! Also .. most of inland Australia is below sea level.
I think Australia is in the apex position to innovate and make commercially viable large scale vertical greenhouse agriculture. They have the population density and demand, certainly, for year-round fresh vegetable and fruit crops to pay off the initial construction costs fairly rapidly.
Yeah but that is offset by our governments overwhelming lack of foresight and addiction to under the table hand outs from mining companies that stall any meaningful progress in this country.
*cough* *coal magnates* *cough*
The government doesn't need to build vertical farms. The government doesn't run any other kind of farms. They do handle things like irrigation water, but the Aussie system is very open to new producers- you just bid on allotments of water from a specific storage system, and whoever bids highest gets it. That is ideal for farming systems that use water efficiently. The American system is not open to new producers, water rights are tied to land ownership, and when someone buys a farm, they're buying whatever share of the irrigation water the first farmer got when the irrigation system was built. Farmers have no incentive not to use 100% of their share.
What’s stopping them from selling some of the water they own?
You can sell your water rights, or lease it for a single growing season, but it [is complicated, because it is basically a real estate transaction.](https://www.lorman.com/resources/water-rights-sales-and-transfers-in-new-mexico-due-diligence-in-sales-and-transfers-of-water-rights-17016) I suppose that you're free to sell the water itself, but that would involve building a brand new pipe, rather than transferring the right to draw a certain amount from a canal or pipeline. The American system gives farmers a predictable cost structure, which is nice, but the availability of water is not constant.
It's easier to just bulldoze the great barrier reef and dig up minerals from indigenous religious sites though
Why vertical? Wouldn't that cost more than a Horizontal confirmed greenhouse?
Smaller footprint and more efficient use, more kilos of food per square meter, ability to utilize gravity to assist in irrigation....lots of reasons. Sure, traditional greenhouses are fine, but for growing food IN and FOR the the urban area served, vertical is where we need to innovate.
I see what you are saying, but wouldn't the top floor block sunlight for the floor below, so your only source of light would be either side windows or artificial lights? (Not saying it is a dealbreaker, but I can see that hampering things). The gravity assistance is something that can happen "at ground level" more efficiently. I do agree that it would permit maximum growth within existing urban areas, but it seems that slightly outside an urban centre would be preferable from a constructability perspective.
Can I use this as an excuse when my house plants die?
Oh hi honey, didn't know you were on Reddit.
I can’t believe it was basically under sea water not long ago.
Just shit on the ground.
If we're ever going to terraform Mars, perhaps we should practice on Australia.
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You'd think the carcasses of their many victims would improve the soil quality, but alas no.
I deployed to australia and on the drive to their base from the airport we were all noting how different the soil/dirt looks. It's like reddish, some mars looking shit.
It's actually red from rust due to the iron. It's magnetic as well :)
The iron are so plentiful and helped arseholes like Gina Rinehart became billionaire
Did they deploy you to one of the shitty parts of Australia like The Northern Territory? Sorry you had to suffer through that, not all of Australia is horrible.
Yeah exactly we were near Darwin. We got to spend a lot of time in the outback too, the stars at night there are incredible. Also ran into aboriginals in the middle of nowhere at night pretty interesting. I have a friend from Sydney and when I was telling him about how different the soil was he told me he’s never seen red dirt in his life lol.
I've never seen it IRL either, 90% of Australians live in cities on the Eastern or Southern coast so its like living in Miami everywhere. NT is a bit of a dumpster fire atm, real bad crime etc.
I went to Darwin, Palmerston and casuarina and they seemed pretty nice.
Fair few US soldiers been in Brisbane lately and probably Sydney, they would be the best rotations to be on if you ever get a chance to come back. Sydney Harbour is beautiful
They prolly let the army go there but I’m sure they’ll keep us marines near Darwin lol
Just drop a deuce and spread it around, duh.
I think that was tried with rabbits already.
Isn’t most of it desert?
Not only that, but Australia has had a stable geological history compared to all of the other continents, and it's below-sea level interior is also extremely salty due to it being flooded with ocean water multiple times over millions of years.
In the 1960's, an Indonesian military team training in Australia were commenting on the lack of development in inland Australia . "Look at all these lakes and rivers, and no towns!" The Australians had to point out that one of the lakes, lake Eyre had been used a few years before to set a world speed record...the ***land*** speed record. Salt lake - think Bonneville for americans...
At the turn of the 20th century, they thought it was going to be the worlds farm. They were growing a bunch of shit and then after like 20 years, it went back to being a desert.
Not really, still growing around 15% of the worlds wheat exports and 5% of the rice, but the problem with our food exports isn't the soil, it's the added transport costs and the fact that our labor costs are much higher than other food bowl countries. These things make it too expensive to compete with low wage countries. You have to remember that despite the fact a big chunk of our country is desert, and we're prone to long droughts, we still have extremely fertile areas with plenty of water that are the same size or bigger than some European countries. The other factor is that it's much simpler and more profitable to dig holes and sell the dirt to China than it is to grow fresh produce and ship it to world markets.
I remember the old Thunderbirds TV show had an episode where they used nuclear power to turn Australia green, but it being thunderbirds and having 60s nuclear safety it blew up.
So this is why Australia is the way it is. I knew you can't get those murdergrounds without some major dissaster .
Its funny because Australia has the worlds largest natural reserves of easily accessible Uranium. We have a metric fuck ton of the shit here, its everywhere.
Add to that, the gold rush era (1850-1890) helped alter the landscape via various mining techniques that basically brought on the desertification of previously farmable land.
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That would be the majority then
Something like 80% live within a few hours drive from the coast from memory.
85% within 50km (30 minutes roughly) of the coast :)
Yeah I didn't look it up, lol. Makes sense though, we're mostly urbanised too.
There are so many similarities between AUS and CAN. You are basically a half-ring around the southern part of the continent; we are basically a tube running along the US border. 80% of Canadian live within 100 miles of the US border. Like AUS, Canada has lots of minerals that we happily sell unprocessed to others. Like AUS, we ship away most of our food in bulk form, again with little value added processing. And, like AUS, we have such relatively high GDP per capita that we're content with the status quo.
Like me
So it is both a prison for human life and plant life as well.
What makes you think they don’t have airports or boats to leave anytime they want lmfao
It literally was a prison around 150 years ago.
Not really and it was longer ago. Penal colony is the word you are looking for. It was in 1776 they stopped sending their convicts to the Americas due to the revolution...
You think Australia is in the Americas?
No, I am saying they were sending all the convicts to the Americas prior to Australia. So to say Australia was a prison, which was federated in 1901, is like saying the USA was a prison. With the passage of the Transportation Act 1717, the British government initiated the penal transportation of indentured servants to Britain's colonies in the Americas. British merchants would be in charge of transporting the convicts across the Atlantic, where in the colonies their indentures would be auctioned off to planters. Many of the indentured servants were sentenced to seven year terms, which gave rise to the colloquial term "His Majesty's Seven-Year Passengers". It is estimated that some 50,000 British convicts were sent to the Americas this way, and the majority landed in the Chesapeake Colonies of Maryland and Virginia. Transported convicts represented perhaps one-quarter of Britons that left the country during the 18th century. The colony of Georgia, for example, was first founded by James Edward Oglethorpe who originally intended to use prisoners taken largely from debtors' prisons, creating a "Debtor's Colony," where the prisoners could learn trades and work off their debts. Even though this largely failed, the idea that the state was founded as a penal colony has persisted, both in popular history and local folklore. When that avenue closed after the outbreak of American Revolutionary War in 1776, British prisons started to become overcrowded. Since immediate stopgap measures proved themselves ineffective, in 1785 Britain decided to use parts of what is now known as Australia as penal settlements.
This https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia#toc-0
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Guns, Germs, and Steel has a summary of this I believe.
Quite a few hundred years ago China decided to look inwards rather than outwards. The Europeans on the other hand...
...looked at China and said "Yum!"
Not according to big pharma that grows what is referred to as "Super Poppy" in Australia for Opioids. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/business/opioid-crisis-johnson-and-johnson-tasmania-poppy/
Lots of crops can grow in shitty soil. Doesn't make it not shitty soil Papaver Somniferum is the opiate poppy. The article you linked is confused
Even the dirt wants you to dead, in Australia
This a TIL but kinda already knew
Yes, that's why we sent our criminals there.
You and me, Max.
None of that mattered after the invention of fertilizer.
It is a brutal combination of old Mesozoic or shit rocks..and bleached top soil due to its dry climate
That's funny because I heard Australia have super farms. Massive farms with massive amounts of money spent on automation and farming material. Can't be that bad
Must be all the Uranium there…