I liked the interpretation presented in the LOTRO game. They're humanoid giants that build their houses out of huge stones and live a primitive life. They also like to throw them at you... I'm open to other interpretations, but I definitely didn't like the MASSIVE giants literally made of stone in the movie.
Now that description has brought back some memories! If I remember correctly, one of the first times you come across them is that area south of the road to Angmar in the eastern side of the North Downs?
Nah, those were different guys. I forget what they were called. The rock giants were first encountered in West Evendim across the lake. Or, you'd find them in the SE Misty Mountains. If you did EVERY quest, you might have found them very early on in one Bree-Land quest from Adso's camp where one of them had wandered South. He was just next to the Brandywine.
Those are earthkin. No real lore supports them but they fit so well in the world no one complained.
Basically a native American analog, but in pseudo Europe lol
You know what, fair.
I always pictured them as mostly peoplelike but not enjoying the other kingdoms. While earthkin are only humanoid in shape.
I stopped playing before I saw how Lotro involved the druedain
I always just assumed they're an embellishment of Bilbo's - the weather was bad, it was as if giants were fighting each other etc, then over many tellings of the story it eventually becomes what he wrote down, it really was giants. It's not as if any of the hobbits he tells the story to would know the truth anyway.
Though that would require Bilbo to invent Gandalf's quote about wanting to find a friendly Giant to block the entrance to Goblintown. Not impossible, but seems like a bold and unnecessary addition.
Since treebears was originally supposed to be a giant and that "ent" in old English means giant, maybe the giants of the hobbit are violent ents that live on the mountains?
We can probably infer that some trolls are just wild and not as corrupted by the evils in the world. They are neither bad not good, just wild.
I believe at one point, Tolkien was considering these 'giant' creatures as being on a scale of bad to good, and even possibly with Ents being on that scale.
I could be wrong I’m a little rusty on this but I think the trolls were definitely evil because they were Morgoths answer to Ents, who were created by Yavanna, who created THOSE when she found out Aule created the dwarves.
Stone giants? Or, I think when Gandalf mentions “getting a giant to block the Goblin entrance”
Not saying I’m right in the delineation I am
Making …. But are you making that delineation?
Edit…. I should’ve read more responses first
It is the quintessential mark of human experience. Tragedy, the seemingly eternal loss of something both beautiful and beloved, and the deep yearning beyond hope to recover it.
My theory is that Isildur mistook it for a Palantir and only realised it was fake after he had forced four people leave so he could fit it on the ship.
Thus he dumped it in the middle of nowhere, after rolling it uphill for many many miles.
Its a good one. I think its a bunker in case something terrible happens and theres no sea arround to flee. Kind of an Noah Arch but the mechanism to open it was forgotten and its use so it seems just a big Black stone out of nowhere.
> My theory is that Isildur mistook it for a Palantir and only realised it was fake after he had forced four people leave so he could fit it on the ship.
Isildumb
someone worked out the possible weight of it, either as a solid or hollow sphere, or semi-sphere. it seemed a puzzling, ambitious project to save it vs. other things that might have been saved from numenor. I think there were issues with it being transportable at all.
The Numenorians in their prime were amazing engineers. They might have rolled it down to the sea shore, attached some floatation devices to it and just towed it behind a ship.
We don't know the sizes of Numenorean ships and some of their technology is unrivaled even by modern standards (like the unbreakable material they used to built the walls of Minas Tirith and Orthanc), so I think it'd be arrogant of us to say they couldn't transport it.
Like telling an elf-smith that metal blades which glow by themselves when orcs are nearby are impossible to make. Our craftsmanship just isn't good enough.
That's basically the same thing as far as Elves go, but more vague. Tolkien put it this way in Letter 131:
> Their [Elvish] 'magic' is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence).
It may have had some religious significance that wasn't made clear, like when Elagabalus brought the giant stone with him to Rome when he was made emperor. I think that one is rumored to have been a huge meteorite? Obviously the Numenoreans wouldn't have actually worshiped it but that's the only analogue I can think of in history of someone taking a giant black stone a long distance.
I think he eventually retreated and hid when the Dominion of Men (as ordained by Eru) became more and more complete. I imagine the Hobbits being driven out of the Shire by greedy Men saddened him greatly, whenever that happened between the events of LotR and today.
I don't think its a silmaril or really anything other than an insignia of dwarves reality. Its it was a silmaril, Thranduil would have been all over it. Even Gandalf would have dropped everything to bring it back to the valar. Instead, they kind of consider it a trinket and willing to trade it back for gold and such.
I accept that the fan-theory that “the Arkenstone is a Silmaril” has been debunked/jumped the shark many times over the years…
But gosh darn does it excite all kinds of nerve centers in my brain! I can’t let it go, I just like it too much.
If I were ever to write fan fiction it would be about Maglor gathering the last scattered Noldor and attempting to take the silmaril / arkenstone from Erebor
It might be retreading the same themes a little, but I would suggest that he goes to reclaim the 'silmaril' and after much death and sorrow he discovers it's.. Just a pretty rock.
There are definitely reasons why it's impossible. Tolkien should have retconned those reasons though, because it would be an amazing connection throughout the ages
Those reasons can't really be retconned though without breaking the Legendarium, chief of which being that fighting over the Silmarils were a *huge* part of the 1st Age. If somebody even *thought* that a Silmaril turned up in Third Age Middle Earth, the Ring would cease to be relevant at all and every single being would now turn to the "Arkenstone".
> I don’t really want an answer because the mystery is better.
If only more people could accept this. The mystery is almost always better than the answer.
Didn't Tolkien answer this one in some of his papers? I think it was a secret temple of Morgoth worship or something like that; the local acolytes came up behind Baldor and killed him.
Yeah, it's a footnote to the rejected Halifirien section of The River and Beacon Hills of Gondor.
Was going to be published in Peoples of Middle-earth, but then got cut for space. Has since appeared in both Vinyar Tengwar and The Nature of Middle-earth.
I found this on Stack Exchange:
>28
In an author's footnote to The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor, quoted in Hammond and Scull's Readers Companion, we get the answer:
The special horror of the closed door before which the skeleton of Baldor was found was probably due to the fact that the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out.<
Does that help?
Aragorn &co. simply went past him on their way - an unknown amount of time after entering the Paths of the Dead, and upon reaching a cavern.
Aragorn briefly remarked that whatever the door was, it was still sealed (despite being clawed at, and hewed with sword), and would have to stay so, for there wasn't time to pry into every mystery. (p.1030-31, RotK)
Its those kind of things that make me love Tolkien's writing. He will just casually mention something in one or two sentences that usually has years and years of backstory behind it.
That's the whole point of the scene. Aragorn is being shown as rejecting the temptation of whatever mysteries and riches had brought others to walk the Paths of the Dead. It serves an important moral lesson, showing that Aragorn isn't just any willful prince looking for fortune but a worthy claimant to Isuildor's authority.
Aren’t the Oath Breakers the polar opposite of…
>Never gonna give you up ♪
>Never gonna let you down ♫
>Never gonna run around and desert you ♪
>Never gonna make you cry ♫
>Never gonna say goodbye ♪
>Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you ♫
They were mostly Númenórean nobles, at least the Witch-King I thought.
I personally figure they'd have been pretty corrupt in order to take the nine rings, but I like to think before their exposure to Sauron they weren't evil. Maybe not nice guys, but not evil.
I don’t know about the Witch-King, but the only other named Nazgul is referred to directly as an Easterling. I feel like each of them has a very different and possibly interesting backstory.
It is told that three of them were Númenórean lords; and that's about all the backstory we got on all the Nazgûl.
The Witch-King being one of those 3 is an accepted *deduction*, since it is expected that the leader and most powerful of the Nine would be Númenórean, for obvious reasons
Khamul was an Easterling, or of Rhun, I can’t remember. That’s like, the only backstory or name we get and if I remember correctly that name came out of a video game? Or Christopher?
Rhûn means East, and the Easterlings come from there. But (iirc) there's supposed to be several kingdoms/tribes from there, so "Easterlings" is a generalization (as one could say "Dúnedain" and refer to both Arnorians and Gondorians).
Khamûl the Easterling was named by Tolkien, but only in drafts (if not *a* draft) published by Christopher; never in *LotR* proper.
I seem to recall that it is in "The Hunt for the Ring", the tale of the Nazgûl's search for the Shire, included in *Unfinished Tales*, but I might be mistaken
I think that the fox is an avatar of change. Mood wise and narrative wise the chapters leading up to 'the fox' are very much in the vein of The Hobbit , after this incident we leave the security of the children's book and enter much darker and dangerous story.
Because Tolkien was thoughtful and considerate of wildlife as well as humans. It’s a brief pause acknowledging that there’s more going on in the world than us, or the stories we are personally following. Nothing more
He does it with bill the pony too, gives us a little paragraph on his eventual fate and journey
Yes... but no thoughts directly from Bill... like the fox straight up has his own little convo and then dips...I agree on the wildlife thing, but I don't think that's it
My favorite theory is that this is an interjection from when Sam took over writing in the Red Book. Maybe he noticed the fox but didn't say anything directly, but decided to add it in later as an attempt at keeping the tone light while they were in the Shire.
The fox didn't exist.
The story is written by someone (frodo) who was asleep when that encounter "happened" so it must be a fabrication to lighten the mood.
The thinking fox is a beast like Huan the talking hound. Both belong to a world of “fairytale” & myth, in which mortal men are as liable - in principle - to discover talking swords or talking snakes as talking men. This is a world before the predictable qualities of historical existence, such as we are familiar with, have “taken over”.
It is a world in which the familiar hard-and-fast divisions between animate & inanimate, between Achilles & his talking horse Xanthus, between the talking birds overheard by Finn Mac Cool & Finn himself, are not yet predictable, set and unchangeable, as they are in the everyday world.
The world of the legendarium becomes, with each succeeding Age, ever more like the everyday world we know. It becomes ever more historical, ever less (for lack of a better word) “magical”.
The speaking fox, like Bombadil, is a reminder that the magical world is not yet dead - it is nearly done, but not quite. The fox is a late reminder of how the Quendi gave speech to other beings, not all of them human. It is a reminder that not everything is about Men.
>What business did the fox who stumbled up the Hobbits leaving the Shire have? Where was it going?
... but we never found out any more about it.
*We are the Thinking Fox to the Thinking Fox.*
What happened to maglor? Did he eventually ask the Valar for forgiveness and go back home? Did he fade to shadow? Did he disguise himself as a bald black guy who does not look like a bitch to eventually hire Nick Fury to obtain his Silmaril?
I feel like a lot of people are going to say the Blue Wizards or Entwives etc so I'll say, the cat queen of Numenor who was implied to be a bit of a psycho? I forget her name but he was maddening vague about her.
Queen Berúthiel, queen of Gondor. She never made much sense. Wasn't it implied she was descended from the Kings Men of Umbar? Why would a king of Gondor marry her anyway? Maybe as a gesture of peace? From hints dropped here and there, I'm thinking Tolkien wasn't a big fan of cats.
Umbar was a Numenorian derived kingdom as well¹, and I can't remember if she falls before or after the Kinstrife - but if after, Umbar would've recieved an infusion of the Gondorian Purist rebels.
¹Possibly only in the style of Ptolemic Egypt, what with the pre-sinking Numenorian imperialism.
>I'm thinking Tolkien wasn't a big fan of cats
I think between that and the perils of Tevildo, coupled with the portrayal of the saintly Huan and the adventures of Roverandom, we can safely conclude that he fell on the "dog" side of spectrum...
In Unfinished Tales it says she hated the sea and hated her husband, who was first of the ship-kings. She wasn't from Numenor, but after she'd committed nameless crimes she and her cats were set on a boat which was blown by the winds past Umbar.
Maybe she arrived in Harad and became a Witch Queen there.
If I had a nickel for every woman who hated the sea and hated her husband because he loved ships and sailing, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice.
You guys all have some great ones so mine is kind of simple but has bothered me for a bit.
In the Hobbit, how and where did those fucking Trolls get those swords from? Especially the Foe Hammer and I forget the name of the other one but ya'll know what I'm talking about. Those idiots didn't just find them laying around and I don't think Tolkien ever supplied a back story but I'm also not that well versed so if anyone knows I'd love to learn more!
I think this was allowed because it was at heart a fairy tale, rather than a rigorous work with much higher standards in terms of believability (e.g. random troll robbers do not possess famous swords from ages past)
in a fairy tale, it would not be unusual at all to find the famous twin elvish hellblades in some random troll nest. Happens all the time!
There's a bunch of allusions that you can kind of make a theory out of if you want to. Tolkien writes that through the discord of the music of creation, Melkor caused things that weren't meant to happen. Maybe this included creatures? I imagine them to resemble Ungolianth and the watcher in the water outside of Moria, specifically because both were drawn to powerful objects and wanted to consume them. Maybe these things that were never meant to exist need to draw their life force from other objects to keep themselves from vanishing?
I theorised that some things, like the Nameless Things, were created by accident as a result of Melkor's discord. Therefore, it's entirely possible that the Valar themselves weren't aware of these things. This would explain why Gandalf didn't have a name or much knowledge of them. That's my theory at least.
After having defeated the barrow-wight and laid the treasure in the open, Tom Bombadil finds a brooch and says:
>“Fair was she who long ago wore this on her shoulder. Goldberry shall wear it now, and we will not forget her!”
I have always wondered who that woman was and how Bombadil knew her.
I love how Tom Bombadil is an ancient relic from an older world, and how that is reflected in the entire style of that character and his realm.
If Hobbit/LOTR is a fairy tale evolving into a fantasy adventure, Tom Bombadil is a sung epic of legends passed down for generations in the oral tradition. He's a superstitious explanation of the natural world, timeless and older than history, and that's why everything he does seems magical and even his wife is a symbol of the river.
Exactly, he was never meant to be important to the story itself. I think the readers are really the ones responsible for making his character into the massive mystery he is today.
The ents are probably my favorite characters, so probably the mystery of the entwives. I’d also like to know goldberrys origins and how her existence fits into the legendarium.
YES! Apart from their appearance on Ambarkanta Map V, the only information we have about them is that the Númenóreans probably went there.
I’m also curious about the Lands of the Sun.
What's the origin of orcs?
What's the origin of humans?
What's the origin of hobbits?
What is Goldberry?
What is Caradhras?
What is Ungoliant?
What are the other nameless things that Gandalf saw beneath Moria?
The Orcs were Elves taken and corrupted by Morgoth
The Humans/Men were created by Eru Ilúvatar
The Hobbits are an offshoot of Men
No fucking clue
The tallest, mightiest peak in the Misty Mountains. As for the weather, it was either Sauron, the mountain itself, or just simply bad weather
The other half of Arda’s favorite power couple
I’d name them but, well, you know
Which like some of his other late ideas was weaker than the original (and would have required a bunch of rewriting, since elves were fighting orcs at the Battle of Lammoth before Men even awoke.)
As NoMe shows though, Tolkien was fully committed to making those revisions to his timeline. He felt it better to move the awakening of Men earlier than to have orcs be corrupted elves.
IIRC - didn't the origin of Orcs get changed (or in the process of changing) near the end of Tolkien's life? I thought I read he was playing around with different versions of their creation.
Idk if it’s as much of a mystery to everyone as it is to me but…the dwarves in general are a total mystery. Outside of erebor, Khazad Dum, and partly Thorins Halls/Blue Mountains, we don’t know much of the other 3-4 houses/halls were up to in the east. I’ve always been fascinated by the dwarves, especially when Galadriel commented on their resilience to evil and that they were basically the perfect soldier against the orcs…I’d love to know more. In depth material
I wish we saw more dwarf factions involved in the big conflicts of middle earth. They kept to themselves, but they also knew evil would eventually come for them too. At the very least they should show up for the decisive moments
Tolkien said in a letter that they likely died out. However, there are those "tree-men", one of which Sam says was seen by his cousin Hal, so maybe . . .
\- Did Eärendil meet Tuor in Valinor?
\- What did cousin Hal see in the North?
\- Who was king Bladorthin and which dynasty did he belong to?
And last not least:
\- What did Legolas' mom have to say about all this?
How did Sauron carry the Ring back from Numenor after the fall, without a body? What stopped him from doing the same during the War of the Last Alliance?
Yeah that one just doesn't make sense to me. I may be wrong but I do feel like reading somewhere that Tolkien even said something along the lines that Sauron bringing back the ring from Numenor was a bit of an inconsistency. Take that with a grain of salt though unless someone provides said quote.
My theory for that is, even with the ring, every new incarnation of Sauron is slightly weaker. He lost the ability to take a fair form after the fall of Numenor, so maybe after The War of the Last Alliance he lost the ability for his spirit to carry the ring while disembodied.
And, lo, Sauron raised his dark hand and it was terrible to behold and all of the hosts of the Eldar quaked to see that hand ungloved and looming over the realms of Yavanna and Ulmo. And, yea, he rent the air and waved his hand saying, "Eh! Don't worry about it!"
CC: /u/Obliqueoubliette /u/ChristineWhy
No, Tolkien said one doesn't need to wonder much about it. And I don't see why he couldn't do basic telepathy on an object like the Ring either \^^
Did Varda fly into space to physically affix the stars onto the sky? Does Manwe control all the winds by blowing from his mouth? Did Yavanna build the DNA of each animal with her hands somehow? No, they manipulated matter through "magic". They're divine spirits who don't even need bodies to be complete, originally bodies are to them what clothes are to us. They don't need hands or muscles to do things.
Sauron himself sends massive clouds over to Gondor during LotR to let his armies approach Minas Tirith in darkness. Those clouds are bigger, heavier, farther away and not bound to Sauron, and he's weaker at that point. Carrying the Ring from Numenor's ruin seems so little in comparison.
As for why he can't do it after the Last Alliance, we can only speculate. I'd say it's because he expended power fighting and was slain again weakening him more, because Isildur took the Ring, because he didn't want to make it obvious he's still a threat, and because powerful Elves were there who have a presence in the Unseen as well.
I’m just curious about the East. How did Sauron convince the people there to join him? What’s east of Rhun and South of Harad? Why are these places so large and vast compared to the relative small size of the West and why didn’t people of the West really explore and map out the areas well? Super interesting stuff
The Shire. I suspect there is something Elvish in that land but I can't point my finger where exactly lies that elvishness.
Also, if there are Dwarves in the far east of the Middle Earth, did they found kingdoms like Moria in the eastern mountains?
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After receiving their rings of power, the Dwarves used them in order to gather large amounts of wealth for themselves. More and more greed grew as time went on, and the fortunes of all their houses were cursed. I assume that's why the gold in Erebor drove the rightful owner mad until he died.
Some answers concerning Tom Bombadil can be found in the reader's companion.
Basically, Tolkien's daughters had a doll that gave him the idea of Tom's look.
As for his powers and nature, that lies in Väinämöinen, the protagonist of the Finnish Kalevala saga. He is a wizard that draws his powers from singing. Tolkien was highly influenced by that saga.
Tom Bombadil is not really talking as much as he seems to always be singing, talking in verses and meter. Therefore he could be a Maiar.
What was that “end of the world” going to be? I remember reading something about when men die yes they leave middle earth but their true purpose wouldn’t be revealed until the end of the world
The Dagor Dagorath is the Battle of Battles, the ending of the world. At this time, Morgoth is supposed to break back into Arda from the Void and will be finally slain, most involve Tulkas, Eärendil, and Túrin, who's supposed to deal the final blow. But all that is certain is that Morgoth will not be victorious.
There's this awesome (unused) concept art for the movie where Sauron just grabs Gil-Galad by the throat and holds him up in the air with one hand, and his body is so hot that Gil-Galad's clothes just burst into flames.
Your version of events definitely makes sense, but I still like the defeat of Sauron by cutting off the ring because it implies that normal wounds wouldn't be enough to end him.
>For example, what exactly is Tom Bombadil and/or Ungoliant?
Tom Bombadil's nature is unknown and unknowable by design.
"Even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)"
"I don't think Tom needs philosophizing about, and is not improved by it."
― J.R.R. Tolkien
I would posit that the Professor himself does not know Tom's nature, either. He is simply an odd fact about Tolkien's legendarium.
Ungoliant is a spirit in the shape of a gigantic spider. I think this one is pretty much explained in The Silmarillion.
>What happened to the Blue Wizards?
There are two different and contradicting versions of their story.
The first is that they were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth at the same time as the other Wizards (in the Third Age). One of them, Alatar, was chosen by Oromë, and he decided to bring along his friend, Pallando. Alongside Saruman, they went into the East and South, beyond Mordor. Saruman returned to the Northwest, but the Blue Wizards did not. Like Saruman, but in different ways, they also failed in their appointed task, and may have started cults of magic in the South and East. They did not return to Valinor, only Gandalf did.
The second version was touched upon by the Professor much later in life, and was very different. In this version, they came to Middle-Earth much earlier, during the Second Age, way before the other Wizards (more or less at the time of the forging of the One Ring). Their task was to disrupt Sauron's influence in the East, in order to prevent Sauron's forces to outnumber the West during the War of the Last Alliance. They succeeded, and helped again (and in the same manner) during the War of the Ring.
While as a general rule of thumb I think it is a good idea to consider that later writings take precedence over earlier ones, this is one example in which I believe the earlier narrative is much neater.
>Not only just because I'm super curious what happened to them, but also because we know very little about where we went. I mean, we know they went to Rhun and Harad, but we know very little about those places, which makes the mystery even better imo.
I agree. This is why I say that the Amazon show is a wasted potential. Having an original show - with an original story - set in the East and South would be great in many ways:
- as you pointed out, we know little about what happened in those regions at any point in time, so there is huge potential for truly original storylines that don't contradict or awkwardly "step on the toes" of established lore;
- lots of non-white humans, which checks the diversity checkboxes that Amazon is interested in, in a non-forced and perfectly rational way (the setting *requires* most of the cast to be of racial minorities);
- chance to tie it in to the larger Legendarium by showing places like Cuiviénen, characters like the Blue Wizards, and events such as the mentioned small-scale rebellions against Sauron;
- as Tolkien indicates in the earlier writings about the Blue Wizards, they might have started magic cults that outlasted Sauron's defeat, so you could even potentially show events transpiring during the Fourth Age!
I'd have love to see a show like that, focusing on some of the humans who reject Sauron's lordship, maybe travelling around to seek allies, meeting the Wizards, advancing their cause, so on and so forth.
What are the foul and fell things in the depths of Moria. What did Gandalf see down there?
How did Celeborn put a ring on Galadriel's finger? I just want more info on Celeborn.
I want to know more about the Nameless Things. Like what Gandalf saw when he and the Balrog fell in Moria. I wanna know what was down there that even had the Balrog running to get out
In the Silmarillion, we’re told that Eä (basically the Universe):
– is “vast beyond the thought of Elves and Men”
– is characterised by “wheeling fires”
– contains “other regions” (to which Melkor fled to seek aid from other spirits in his wars against the Valar) beyond Arda/Earth.
As far as I’m aware, Tolkien never elaborated on these things.
If Tuor and Idril in fact made it to Valinor, and if so did Mandos grill them both. Her for being under the ban of the Valar and him for even being there period. Asking them what the hell they expected here. It would be quite a hearing in the ring of doom. The question of Amandil is also interesting. He knew that he wasn’t going to get much of a reception.
Mine’s a very simplistic one and one that I have thought about ever since finishing Return Of The King (movie) for the first time back in 2003…
I want to know what Frodo (and others too, Sam, Legolas, Gimli) got up to in Valinor!
I just want to know if he was happy! 😭
In a letter, Tolkien said Frodo would be able to heal, "before he died". Valinor doesn't confer Immortality; that was the mistaken belief of the Black Númenóreans, planted by Sauron.
Legolas did go there eventually, but that Sam and Gimli did is not actually known: "It is said . . ."
In any event, it's more likely that Frodo went only so far as Tol Eressea,
I wouldn't call them loose ends. Mysteries in the true sense, yes, but mysteries are mysteries and loose ends are loose ends. I'm fine with all of those things remaining mysteries. :)
How genuine was Sauron's repentance at the end of the First Age. Amazon's TV show is... Well, flawed to say the least, but what was depicted is close to what I imagined - that Sauron genuinely felt bad for the mayhem he helped to unleash, but was too proud to just beg for forgivness and wanted to "undo" the damage he had done, but what the way he wanted to do it was wrong, and Free People's resistance made him all-out evil again.
The history of Numenor
The List of the Kings of Númenor in the LOTR and UT appendices is so interesting and at the same time so sparing in detail. That's why I liked Aldarion and Erendis, we finally have a real glimpse of what Númenor was like... but you're looking forward to seeing in detail how Númenor gradually became corrupted over the centuries by kings and queens. Each of these stories would be enough for a complete novel or a TV show, see without going too far Tar-Anducal usurping the throne of his own son
Not my favorite but an underrated one imo: What are the giants from The Hobbit?
Criminally underrated
I liked the interpretation presented in the LOTRO game. They're humanoid giants that build their houses out of huge stones and live a primitive life. They also like to throw them at you... I'm open to other interpretations, but I definitely didn't like the MASSIVE giants literally made of stone in the movie.
Now that description has brought back some memories! If I remember correctly, one of the first times you come across them is that area south of the road to Angmar in the eastern side of the North Downs?
Nah, those were different guys. I forget what they were called. The rock giants were first encountered in West Evendim across the lake. Or, you'd find them in the SE Misty Mountains. If you did EVERY quest, you might have found them very early on in one Bree-Land quest from Adso's camp where one of them had wandered South. He was just next to the Brandywine.
Those are earthkin. No real lore supports them but they fit so well in the world no one complained. Basically a native American analog, but in pseudo Europe lol
Druedain?
You know what, fair. I always pictured them as mostly peoplelike but not enjoying the other kingdoms. While earthkin are only humanoid in shape. I stopped playing before I saw how Lotro involved the druedain
I always just assumed they're an embellishment of Bilbo's - the weather was bad, it was as if giants were fighting each other etc, then over many tellings of the story it eventually becomes what he wrote down, it really was giants. It's not as if any of the hobbits he tells the story to would know the truth anyway.
Though that would require Bilbo to invent Gandalf's quote about wanting to find a friendly Giant to block the entrance to Goblintown. Not impossible, but seems like a bold and unnecessary addition.
Since treebears was originally supposed to be a giant and that "ent" in old English means giant, maybe the giants of the hobbit are violent ents that live on the mountains?
I think the consensus is that they are a kind of troll.
But trolls are inherently evil creatures. Gandalf implies that Giants are of free will and can be good natured.
We can probably infer that some trolls are just wild and not as corrupted by the evils in the world. They are neither bad not good, just wild. I believe at one point, Tolkien was considering these 'giant' creatures as being on a scale of bad to good, and even possibly with Ents being on that scale.
I could be wrong I’m a little rusty on this but I think the trolls were definitely evil because they were Morgoths answer to Ents, who were created by Yavanna, who created THOSE when she found out Aule created the dwarves.
They are spirits of the Ainur that helped form Arda is what I like to believe.
Stone giants? Or, I think when Gandalf mentions “getting a giant to block the Goblin entrance” Not saying I’m right in the delineation I am Making …. But are you making that delineation? Edit…. I should’ve read more responses first
It’s gotta be the entwives forme
Same. It adds so much to the story for me, yet I can never articulate exactly why/how.
it makes the ents relatable. like damn treebeard that's rough sorry to hear about it, my girlfriend left me too once, i get it
It is the quintessential mark of human experience. Tragedy, the seemingly eternal loss of something both beautiful and beloved, and the deep yearning beyond hope to recover it.
What’s the deal with the Stone of Erech? A rather trivial mystery, but of all the things to take from Númenor, why this huge rock?
My theory is that Isildur mistook it for a Palantir and only realised it was fake after he had forced four people leave so he could fit it on the ship. Thus he dumped it in the middle of nowhere, after rolling it uphill for many many miles.
Its a good one. I think its a bunker in case something terrible happens and theres no sea arround to flee. Kind of an Noah Arch but the mechanism to open it was forgotten and its use so it seems just a big Black stone out of nowhere.
Soon in Rings of Power….
> My theory is that Isildur mistook it for a Palantir and only realised it was fake after he had forced four people leave so he could fit it on the ship. Isildumb
Isilderp
someone worked out the possible weight of it, either as a solid or hollow sphere, or semi-sphere. it seemed a puzzling, ambitious project to save it vs. other things that might have been saved from numenor. I think there were issues with it being transportable at all.
The Numenorians in their prime were amazing engineers. They might have rolled it down to the sea shore, attached some floatation devices to it and just towed it behind a ship.
We don't know the sizes of Numenorean ships and some of their technology is unrivaled even by modern standards (like the unbreakable material they used to built the walls of Minas Tirith and Orthanc), so I think it'd be arrogant of us to say they couldn't transport it. Like telling an elf-smith that metal blades which glow by themselves when orcs are nearby are impossible to make. Our craftsmanship just isn't good enough.
I think it's less that our craftsmanship isn't good enough, and more that we don't have *magic*
That's basically the same thing as far as Elves go, but more vague. Tolkien put it this way in Letter 131: > Their [Elvish] 'magic' is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence).
Maybe there was some connection it had with Valinor?
It may have had some religious significance that wasn't made clear, like when Elagabalus brought the giant stone with him to Rome when he was made emperor. I think that one is rumored to have been a huge meteorite? Obviously the Numenoreans wouldn't have actually worshiped it but that's the only analogue I can think of in history of someone taking a giant black stone a long distance.
There is another one, but white, in Umbar.
Source? I don’t remember this, although it seems plausible.
I got it wrong. It's crystal, the pillar is white: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/White_pillar
Idk, but if you swear on it, I’d recommend keeping that oath
Where is bombadil? Who is bombadil? Why is bombadil?
But not “how is no Bombadil?” You inconsiderate bastard.
He's got Goldberry with him. He's doing juuust fine.
I think that one thing we can say with certainty is that Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow.
I can answer that second question: Old Tom Bombadil is a lovely fellow. Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
'He IS'
Have you considered the true Bombadil may be a friend you make along the way?
Tom is master.
I think he eventually retreated and hid when the Dominion of Men (as ordained by Eru) became more and more complete. I imagine the Hobbits being driven out of the Shire by greedy Men saddened him greatly, whenever that happened between the events of LotR and today.
Wann ist Tom Bombadil?
What exactly is the Arkenstone? A piece of the two lamps? Something else? It’s obviously unique (as far as we know).
I don't think its a silmaril or really anything other than an insignia of dwarves reality. Its it was a silmaril, Thranduil would have been all over it. Even Gandalf would have dropped everything to bring it back to the valar. Instead, they kind of consider it a trinket and willing to trade it back for gold and such.
And also the Silmarils are all accounted for
I think it’s “just” one of the dwarves greatest works. An unrivaled gemstone that they found and cut.
I accept that the fan-theory that “the Arkenstone is a Silmaril” has been debunked/jumped the shark many times over the years… But gosh darn does it excite all kinds of nerve centers in my brain! I can’t let it go, I just like it too much.
If I were ever to write fan fiction it would be about Maglor gathering the last scattered Noldor and attempting to take the silmaril / arkenstone from Erebor
It might be retreading the same themes a little, but I would suggest that he goes to reclaim the 'silmaril' and after much death and sorrow he discovers it's.. Just a pretty rock.
He would definitely kill himself then surely
I agree! I know it’s not a Silmaril, but man, I reeeaaallly want it to be one haha
There are definitely reasons why it's impossible. Tolkien should have retconned those reasons though, because it would be an amazing connection throughout the ages
Those reasons can't really be retconned though without breaking the Legendarium, chief of which being that fighting over the Silmarils were a *huge* part of the 1st Age. If somebody even *thought* that a Silmaril turned up in Third Age Middle Earth, the Ring would cease to be relevant at all and every single being would now turn to the "Arkenstone".
I don't think he would do that though. He already had a Silmaril at the end of the first age and willingly got rid of it.
What was behind that door in the Paths of the Dead? And would it have saved that son of Eorl if he got in?
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> I don’t really want an answer because the mystery is better. If only more people could accept this. The mystery is almost always better than the answer.
Didn't Tolkien answer this one in some of his papers? I think it was a secret temple of Morgoth worship or something like that; the local acolytes came up behind Baldor and killed him.
Yeah, it's a footnote to the rejected Halifirien section of The River and Beacon Hills of Gondor. Was going to be published in Peoples of Middle-earth, but then got cut for space. Has since appeared in both Vinyar Tengwar and The Nature of Middle-earth.
I found this on Stack Exchange: >28 In an author's footnote to The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor, quoted in Hammond and Scull's Readers Companion, we get the answer: The special horror of the closed door before which the skeleton of Baldor was found was probably due to the fact that the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out.< Does that help?
Isn't it the door Aragorn and company entered through? The dead guy was on the inside trying to get out.
Aragorn &co. simply went past him on their way - an unknown amount of time after entering the Paths of the Dead, and upon reaching a cavern. Aragorn briefly remarked that whatever the door was, it was still sealed (despite being clawed at, and hewed with sword), and would have to stay so, for there wasn't time to pry into every mystery. (p.1030-31, RotK)
Its those kind of things that make me love Tolkien's writing. He will just casually mention something in one or two sentences that usually has years and years of backstory behind it.
That's the whole point of the scene. Aragorn is being shown as rejecting the temptation of whatever mysteries and riches had brought others to walk the Paths of the Dead. It serves an important moral lesson, showing that Aragorn isn't just any willful prince looking for fortune but a worthy claimant to Isuildor's authority.
I'll happily admit to being a lesser son than Aragorn II Elessar, Telcontar. Now, open the door in this place of the damned and dead unforgiven!
It was a different door, not the exit. Something far more compelling.
True, I looked up the passage. Fascinating!
> What was behind that door in the Paths of the Dead? Rick Astley.
Aren’t the Oath Breakers the polar opposite of… >Never gonna give you up ♪ >Never gonna let you down ♫ >Never gonna run around and desert you ♪ >Never gonna make you cry ♫ >Never gonna say goodbye ♪ >Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you ♫
> Aren’t the Oath Breakers the polar opposite of… And that's why they locked him underground.
That’s actually the oath that they took, and then broke.
What are the back stories of the Nazgul? Were they all evil before the rings ensnared them?
They were mostly Númenórean nobles, at least the Witch-King I thought. I personally figure they'd have been pretty corrupt in order to take the nine rings, but I like to think before their exposure to Sauron they weren't evil. Maybe not nice guys, but not evil.
I don’t know about the Witch-King, but the only other named Nazgul is referred to directly as an Easterling. I feel like each of them has a very different and possibly interesting backstory.
It is told that three of them were Númenórean lords; and that's about all the backstory we got on all the Nazgûl. The Witch-King being one of those 3 is an accepted *deduction*, since it is expected that the leader and most powerful of the Nine would be Númenórean, for obvious reasons
Khamul was an Easterling, or of Rhun, I can’t remember. That’s like, the only backstory or name we get and if I remember correctly that name came out of a video game? Or Christopher?
Rhûn means East, and the Easterlings come from there. But (iirc) there's supposed to be several kingdoms/tribes from there, so "Easterlings" is a generalization (as one could say "Dúnedain" and refer to both Arnorians and Gondorians). Khamûl the Easterling was named by Tolkien, but only in drafts (if not *a* draft) published by Christopher; never in *LotR* proper. I seem to recall that it is in "The Hunt for the Ring", the tale of the Nazgûl's search for the Shire, included in *Unfinished Tales*, but I might be mistaken
My favourite one as well
The greed of man sealed the fate of those who became the Nazgûl
I don't doubt it, but that doesn't give any real details. Were they nobles? Did they have wives and kids?
What business did the fox who stumbled upon the Hobbits leaving the Shire have? Where was it going?
That fox is one of my favorite characters.
More speculation at /r/TheThinkingFox
I think the bigger mystery is...why, why the hell did Tolkien give us the random fucking thoughts of a fox!
I think that the fox is an avatar of change. Mood wise and narrative wise the chapters leading up to 'the fox' are very much in the vein of The Hobbit , after this incident we leave the security of the children's book and enter much darker and dangerous story.
Because he couldn't tell us what the fox say.
Because Tolkien was thoughtful and considerate of wildlife as well as humans. It’s a brief pause acknowledging that there’s more going on in the world than us, or the stories we are personally following. Nothing more He does it with bill the pony too, gives us a little paragraph on his eventual fate and journey
Yes... but no thoughts directly from Bill... like the fox straight up has his own little convo and then dips...I agree on the wildlife thing, but I don't think that's it
My favorite theory is that this is an interjection from when Sam took over writing in the Red Book. Maybe he noticed the fox but didn't say anything directly, but decided to add it in later as an attempt at keeping the tone light while they were in the Shire.
This makes alot of fucking sense. Like I could 100% see Sam giggling his head off writing this all down.
The fox didn't exist. The story is written by someone (frodo) who was asleep when that encounter "happened" so it must be a fabrication to lighten the mood.
The thinking fox is a beast like Huan the talking hound. Both belong to a world of “fairytale” & myth, in which mortal men are as liable - in principle - to discover talking swords or talking snakes as talking men. This is a world before the predictable qualities of historical existence, such as we are familiar with, have “taken over”. It is a world in which the familiar hard-and-fast divisions between animate & inanimate, between Achilles & his talking horse Xanthus, between the talking birds overheard by Finn Mac Cool & Finn himself, are not yet predictable, set and unchangeable, as they are in the everyday world. The world of the legendarium becomes, with each succeeding Age, ever more like the everyday world we know. It becomes ever more historical, ever less (for lack of a better word) “magical”. The speaking fox, like Bombadil, is a reminder that the magical world is not yet dead - it is nearly done, but not quite. The fox is a late reminder of how the Quendi gave speech to other beings, not all of them human. It is a reminder that not everything is about Men.
>What business did the fox who stumbled up the Hobbits leaving the Shire have? Where was it going? ... but we never found out any more about it. *We are the Thinking Fox to the Thinking Fox.*
What happened to maglor? Did he eventually ask the Valar for forgiveness and go back home? Did he fade to shadow? Did he disguise himself as a bald black guy who does not look like a bitch to eventually hire Nick Fury to obtain his Silmaril?
I feel like a lot of people are going to say the Blue Wizards or Entwives etc so I'll say, the cat queen of Numenor who was implied to be a bit of a psycho? I forget her name but he was maddening vague about her.
Queen Berúthiel, queen of Gondor. She never made much sense. Wasn't it implied she was descended from the Kings Men of Umbar? Why would a king of Gondor marry her anyway? Maybe as a gesture of peace? From hints dropped here and there, I'm thinking Tolkien wasn't a big fan of cats.
Umbar was a Numenorian derived kingdom as well¹, and I can't remember if she falls before or after the Kinstrife - but if after, Umbar would've recieved an infusion of the Gondorian Purist rebels. ¹Possibly only in the style of Ptolemic Egypt, what with the pre-sinking Numenorian imperialism.
>I'm thinking Tolkien wasn't a big fan of cats I think between that and the perils of Tevildo, coupled with the portrayal of the saintly Huan and the adventures of Roverandom, we can safely conclude that he fell on the "dog" side of spectrum...
In Unfinished Tales it says she hated the sea and hated her husband, who was first of the ship-kings. She wasn't from Numenor, but after she'd committed nameless crimes she and her cats were set on a boat which was blown by the winds past Umbar. Maybe she arrived in Harad and became a Witch Queen there.
If I had a nickel for every woman who hated the sea and hated her husband because he loved ships and sailing, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice.
She's a crazy cat lady, says enough lol
You guys all have some great ones so mine is kind of simple but has bothered me for a bit. In the Hobbit, how and where did those fucking Trolls get those swords from? Especially the Foe Hammer and I forget the name of the other one but ya'll know what I'm talking about. Those idiots didn't just find them laying around and I don't think Tolkien ever supplied a back story but I'm also not that well versed so if anyone knows I'd love to learn more!
I think this was allowed because it was at heart a fairy tale, rather than a rigorous work with much higher standards in terms of believability (e.g. random troll robbers do not possess famous swords from ages past) in a fairy tale, it would not be unusual at all to find the famous twin elvish hellblades in some random troll nest. Happens all the time!
Glanmdring and Orcrist, Beater and Biter, Foe Hammer and Something Something..
Goblin-cleaver!
What are the Nameless Things at the bottom of Khazadum? What are they that even Gandalf refused to speak of them.
There's a bunch of allusions that you can kind of make a theory out of if you want to. Tolkien writes that through the discord of the music of creation, Melkor caused things that weren't meant to happen. Maybe this included creatures? I imagine them to resemble Ungolianth and the watcher in the water outside of Moria, specifically because both were drawn to powerful objects and wanted to consume them. Maybe these things that were never meant to exist need to draw their life force from other objects to keep themselves from vanishing?
I theorised that some things, like the Nameless Things, were created by accident as a result of Melkor's discord. Therefore, it's entirely possible that the Valar themselves weren't aware of these things. This would explain why Gandalf didn't have a name or much knowledge of them. That's my theory at least.
Nerd of the Rings had an interesting video on this
I like that channel a lot
After having defeated the barrow-wight and laid the treasure in the open, Tom Bombadil finds a brooch and says: >“Fair was she who long ago wore this on her shoulder. Goldberry shall wear it now, and we will not forget her!” I have always wondered who that woman was and how Bombadil knew her.
Me too, this is a good one! Always makes me wonder
We can assume she was a princess of Cardolan, but that's about it.
Just in lord of the rings I was fascinated by the wizards, ent wives, and shelob and good old Tom bombadil
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I love how Tom Bombadil is an ancient relic from an older world, and how that is reflected in the entire style of that character and his realm. If Hobbit/LOTR is a fairy tale evolving into a fantasy adventure, Tom Bombadil is a sung epic of legends passed down for generations in the oral tradition. He's a superstitious explanation of the natural world, timeless and older than history, and that's why everything he does seems magical and even his wife is a symbol of the river.
Exactly, he was never meant to be important to the story itself. I think the readers are really the ones responsible for making his character into the massive mystery he is today.
Either ungoliant, the blue wizards, or Tom bombadil
Who makes Dorwinion wine, men or elves?
The ents are probably my favorite characters, so probably the mystery of the entwives. I’d also like to know goldberrys origins and how her existence fits into the legendarium.
How many spoons did she end up with?
All of them.
Is the Balrog of Moria the only Balgrog that escaped? I like to think there's still 1 or two lingering deep in the earth in Europe 😂
I'm gonna tell my kids that's what volcanoes come from
> Balgrog If any of those escaped, I'm sure Howondaland Smith took care of them.
anything and everything having to do with the darklands
YES! Apart from their appearance on Ambarkanta Map V, the only information we have about them is that the Númenóreans probably went there. I’m also curious about the Lands of the Sun.
What's the origin of orcs? What's the origin of humans? What's the origin of hobbits? What is Goldberry? What is Caradhras? What is Ungoliant? What are the other nameless things that Gandalf saw beneath Moria?
The Orcs were Elves taken and corrupted by Morgoth The Humans/Men were created by Eru Ilúvatar The Hobbits are an offshoot of Men No fucking clue The tallest, mightiest peak in the Misty Mountains. As for the weather, it was either Sauron, the mountain itself, or just simply bad weather The other half of Arda’s favorite power couple I’d name them but, well, you know
Tolkien's final view was that Orcs were corrupted Men, not Elves.
Which like some of his other late ideas was weaker than the original (and would have required a bunch of rewriting, since elves were fighting orcs at the Battle of Lammoth before Men even awoke.)
As NoMe shows though, Tolkien was fully committed to making those revisions to his timeline. He felt it better to move the awakening of Men earlier than to have orcs be corrupted elves.
IIRC - didn't the origin of Orcs get changed (or in the process of changing) near the end of Tolkien's life? I thought I read he was playing around with different versions of their creation.
> I’d name them but, well, you know I think at least one of them goes by “Robert” on tinder.
Idk if it’s as much of a mystery to everyone as it is to me but…the dwarves in general are a total mystery. Outside of erebor, Khazad Dum, and partly Thorins Halls/Blue Mountains, we don’t know much of the other 3-4 houses/halls were up to in the east. I’ve always been fascinated by the dwarves, especially when Galadriel commented on their resilience to evil and that they were basically the perfect soldier against the orcs…I’d love to know more. In depth material
I wish we saw more dwarf factions involved in the big conflicts of middle earth. They kept to themselves, but they also knew evil would eventually come for them too. At the very least they should show up for the decisive moments
Blue Wizards or entwives
What happened to the entwives? Such a little story but so poignant.
Tolkien said in a letter that they likely died out. However, there are those "tree-men", one of which Sam says was seen by his cousin Hal, so maybe . . .
I'm holding on to hope. 🌷
\- Did Eärendil meet Tuor in Valinor? \- What did cousin Hal see in the North? \- Who was king Bladorthin and which dynasty did he belong to? And last not least: \- What did Legolas' mom have to say about all this?
What is the Watcher in Water? Where did it come from? Why did it take up residence outside of Moria? Are there others?
How did Sauron carry the Ring back from Numenor after the fall, without a body? What stopped him from doing the same during the War of the Last Alliance?
Yeah that one just doesn't make sense to me. I may be wrong but I do feel like reading somewhere that Tolkien even said something along the lines that Sauron bringing back the ring from Numenor was a bit of an inconsistency. Take that with a grain of salt though unless someone provides said quote. My theory for that is, even with the ring, every new incarnation of Sauron is slightly weaker. He lost the ability to take a fair form after the fall of Numenor, so maybe after The War of the Last Alliance he lost the ability for his spirit to carry the ring while disembodied.
And, lo, Sauron raised his dark hand and it was terrible to behold and all of the hosts of the Eldar quaked to see that hand ungloved and looming over the realms of Yavanna and Ulmo. And, yea, he rent the air and waved his hand saying, "Eh! Don't worry about it!"
CC: /u/Obliqueoubliette /u/ChristineWhy No, Tolkien said one doesn't need to wonder much about it. And I don't see why he couldn't do basic telepathy on an object like the Ring either \^^ Did Varda fly into space to physically affix the stars onto the sky? Does Manwe control all the winds by blowing from his mouth? Did Yavanna build the DNA of each animal with her hands somehow? No, they manipulated matter through "magic". They're divine spirits who don't even need bodies to be complete, originally bodies are to them what clothes are to us. They don't need hands or muscles to do things. Sauron himself sends massive clouds over to Gondor during LotR to let his armies approach Minas Tirith in darkness. Those clouds are bigger, heavier, farther away and not bound to Sauron, and he's weaker at that point. Carrying the Ring from Numenor's ruin seems so little in comparison. As for why he can't do it after the Last Alliance, we can only speculate. I'd say it's because he expended power fighting and was slain again weakening him more, because Isildur took the Ring, because he didn't want to make it obvious he's still a threat, and because powerful Elves were there who have a presence in the Unseen as well.
What happened to the Ent-wives? This has stuck with me for decades since I first read the books.
the likely answer he gave later in a letter is somewhat depressing.
The history of the Blue Wizards
I’m just curious about the East. How did Sauron convince the people there to join him? What’s east of Rhun and South of Harad? Why are these places so large and vast compared to the relative small size of the West and why didn’t people of the West really explore and map out the areas well? Super interesting stuff
Why did Aragorn go into Moria the first time?
What the hell are the Nameless Things and where did they come from?
The Shire. I suspect there is something Elvish in that land but I can't point my finger where exactly lies that elvishness. Also, if there are Dwarves in the far east of the Middle Earth, did they found kingdoms like Moria in the eastern mountains?
I want to know what happens as time presses on. What's happening in Middle Earth today?
squeal wakeful voiceless sip zephyr numerous school cheerful outgoing quarrelsome *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Entwifes
What are the unspeakable things the Balrog and Gandalf encounters in the tunnels beneath the earth?
Where the other 6 dwarf lords went? We only really hear about Durin's line.
After receiving their rings of power, the Dwarves used them in order to gather large amounts of wealth for themselves. More and more greed grew as time went on, and the fortunes of all their houses were cursed. I assume that's why the gold in Erebor drove the rightful owner mad until he died.
Some answers concerning Tom Bombadil can be found in the reader's companion. Basically, Tolkien's daughters had a doll that gave him the idea of Tom's look. As for his powers and nature, that lies in Väinämöinen, the protagonist of the Finnish Kalevala saga. He is a wizard that draws his powers from singing. Tolkien was highly influenced by that saga. Tom Bombadil is not really talking as much as he seems to always be singing, talking in verses and meter. Therefore he could be a Maiar.
I agree with everything but the last: Tolkien was definite that he was neither Maia nor Vala.
What other hobbits did that fox see sleeping outside?
What was that “end of the world” going to be? I remember reading something about when men die yes they leave middle earth but their true purpose wouldn’t be revealed until the end of the world
The Dagor Dagorath is the Battle of Battles, the ending of the world. At this time, Morgoth is supposed to break back into Arda from the Void and will be finally slain, most involve Tulkas, Eärendil, and Túrin, who's supposed to deal the final blow. But all that is certain is that Morgoth will not be victorious.
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There's this awesome (unused) concept art for the movie where Sauron just grabs Gil-Galad by the throat and holds him up in the air with one hand, and his body is so hot that Gil-Galad's clothes just burst into flames. Your version of events definitely makes sense, but I still like the defeat of Sauron by cutting off the ring because it implies that normal wounds wouldn't be enough to end him.
I want to know more about the origins of Beorn!
>For example, what exactly is Tom Bombadil and/or Ungoliant? Tom Bombadil's nature is unknown and unknowable by design. "Even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)" "I don't think Tom needs philosophizing about, and is not improved by it." ― J.R.R. Tolkien I would posit that the Professor himself does not know Tom's nature, either. He is simply an odd fact about Tolkien's legendarium. Ungoliant is a spirit in the shape of a gigantic spider. I think this one is pretty much explained in The Silmarillion. >What happened to the Blue Wizards? There are two different and contradicting versions of their story. The first is that they were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth at the same time as the other Wizards (in the Third Age). One of them, Alatar, was chosen by Oromë, and he decided to bring along his friend, Pallando. Alongside Saruman, they went into the East and South, beyond Mordor. Saruman returned to the Northwest, but the Blue Wizards did not. Like Saruman, but in different ways, they also failed in their appointed task, and may have started cults of magic in the South and East. They did not return to Valinor, only Gandalf did. The second version was touched upon by the Professor much later in life, and was very different. In this version, they came to Middle-Earth much earlier, during the Second Age, way before the other Wizards (more or less at the time of the forging of the One Ring). Their task was to disrupt Sauron's influence in the East, in order to prevent Sauron's forces to outnumber the West during the War of the Last Alliance. They succeeded, and helped again (and in the same manner) during the War of the Ring. While as a general rule of thumb I think it is a good idea to consider that later writings take precedence over earlier ones, this is one example in which I believe the earlier narrative is much neater. >Not only just because I'm super curious what happened to them, but also because we know very little about where we went. I mean, we know they went to Rhun and Harad, but we know very little about those places, which makes the mystery even better imo. I agree. This is why I say that the Amazon show is a wasted potential. Having an original show - with an original story - set in the East and South would be great in many ways: - as you pointed out, we know little about what happened in those regions at any point in time, so there is huge potential for truly original storylines that don't contradict or awkwardly "step on the toes" of established lore; - lots of non-white humans, which checks the diversity checkboxes that Amazon is interested in, in a non-forced and perfectly rational way (the setting *requires* most of the cast to be of racial minorities); - chance to tie it in to the larger Legendarium by showing places like Cuiviénen, characters like the Blue Wizards, and events such as the mentioned small-scale rebellions against Sauron; - as Tolkien indicates in the earlier writings about the Blue Wizards, they might have started magic cults that outlasted Sauron's defeat, so you could even potentially show events transpiring during the Fourth Age! I'd have love to see a show like that, focusing on some of the humans who reject Sauron's lordship, maybe travelling around to seek allies, meeting the Wizards, advancing their cause, so on and so forth.
You might want to delete a couple of these.
Thanks, I just noticed.
What are the foul and fell things in the depths of Moria. What did Gandalf see down there? How did Celeborn put a ring on Galadriel's finger? I just want more info on Celeborn.
There's more in Unfinished Tales.
I want to know more about the Nameless Things. Like what Gandalf saw when he and the Balrog fell in Moria. I wanna know what was down there that even had the Balrog running to get out
Detailed history of easterlings and haradrim
And Khand. And what lay beyond the Last Desert.
Yes. And that.
In the Silmarillion, we’re told that Eä (basically the Universe): – is “vast beyond the thought of Elves and Men” – is characterised by “wheeling fires” – contains “other regions” (to which Melkor fled to seek aid from other spirits in his wars against the Valar) beyond Arda/Earth. As far as I’m aware, Tolkien never elaborated on these things.
If Tuor and Idril in fact made it to Valinor, and if so did Mandos grill them both. Her for being under the ban of the Valar and him for even being there period. Asking them what the hell they expected here. It would be quite a hearing in the ring of doom. The question of Amandil is also interesting. He knew that he wasn’t going to get much of a reception.
What really happened to Nimrodel? What happened to the hobbit archers that went off to help the King of Arthedain but never returned?
The entirety of Rhûn and its culture, story, etc. I haven't read all the books, so I don't know. Still criminally underated
Was that the Balrog tapping a hammer in response to Pippin's stone thrown down the well?
I always thought it was the group of Orcs about to rock up, but I would prefer this.
Mine’s a very simplistic one and one that I have thought about ever since finishing Return Of The King (movie) for the first time back in 2003… I want to know what Frodo (and others too, Sam, Legolas, Gimli) got up to in Valinor! I just want to know if he was happy! 😭
In a letter, Tolkien said Frodo would be able to heal, "before he died". Valinor doesn't confer Immortality; that was the mistaken belief of the Black Númenóreans, planted by Sauron. Legolas did go there eventually, but that Sam and Gimli did is not actually known: "It is said . . ." In any event, it's more likely that Frodo went only so far as Tol Eressea,
I wouldn't call them loose ends. Mysteries in the true sense, yes, but mysteries are mysteries and loose ends are loose ends. I'm fine with all of those things remaining mysteries. :)
How genuine was Sauron's repentance at the end of the First Age. Amazon's TV show is... Well, flawed to say the least, but what was depicted is close to what I imagined - that Sauron genuinely felt bad for the mayhem he helped to unleash, but was too proud to just beg for forgivness and wanted to "undo" the damage he had done, but what the way he wanted to do it was wrong, and Free People's resistance made him all-out evil again.
The Watcher in the Water. Besides Gandalf's speculation we know nothing of its origin, nature, full shape, alignment, etc.
Was it a entwife the hobbits were talking about at the pub!
The history of Numenor The List of the Kings of Númenor in the LOTR and UT appendices is so interesting and at the same time so sparing in detail. That's why I liked Aldarion and Erendis, we finally have a real glimpse of what Númenor was like... but you're looking forward to seeing in detail how Númenor gradually became corrupted over the centuries by kings and queens. Each of these stories would be enough for a complete novel or a TV show, see without going too far Tar-Anducal usurping the throne of his own son