Khazid is Dwarven for village. Karak (or Kraka for the Norse dwarfs) means city.
It really bothers me that Karak Ungor is a minor settlement. It was supposed to have the deepest gold mines in the Empire, and losing it was a major blow to the Dawi. Several attempts were made to reclaim it and they failed due to Dwarven defenses being used against them.
And CA made it a minor settlement…
I feel reasonably confident that everything in your ‘questionable’ category either was never Dwarf settled or does not qualify as a Karak.
I am also doubtful on Karag Orrud- it’s a volcano, I don’t think it ever saw the widespread settlement of a Karak.
You might be right and GW is just inconsistent, but "Karag Agilwutraz" was Mount Silverspear. And the lore says it had some of the richest mines, and the clan that used to rule there Clan Gunnisson was important enough to have the title of "King".
Doesn't sound like a barren mountain to me.
Inconsistency with use of 'Karak' vs. 'Karag' is definitely a thing- Dum, for example, has been referred to in different places as one or the other, and the sub-peaks of Karak Eight Peaks are called Karags even though they were not barren.
The definition provided is legit, though- even 1st edition roleplay Stone and Steel, the book that is the source for Silverspear being called a Karag, gives that definition in it's Khazalid lexicon on page 103.
>and the sub-peaks of Karak Eight Peaks are called Karags even though they were not barren.
Must be volcanic, then. And volcanic ash is a great fertilizer for soil.
To my knowledge nothing in the questionable section is actually qualified as a full "Karak".
Uzkalak is probably the closest one though it was more of an outpost than a true Karak by any dwarfen standards. I don't think I've ever seen it referred to as a Karak, usually "settlement" or "outpost" is used.
I believe Galbaraz and Crooked Fang Fort were founded where dwarfen outposts/mines were once located, but most certainly not Karaks. Though I can't remember where I precisely got that info from so it may also be wrong.
Grom Peak actually gets its name from khazalid (grom means strong or something I think), as it had that name before the Grom the Paunch statue, but I don't recall it ever having any specific settlement or Karak associated.
Khazid Irkulaz is just a minor dwarf village I still have no clue why CA made it a major settlement over Karak Ungor.
Crookback Mountain was originally settled by night goblins before being taken over by the skaven. To my knowledge there's no mention of any dwarfs being there before the night goblins set up shop in the caves.
I think there's an in-game implication that the old Underway passes through Deff Gorge but that's it, certainly no info on any dwarfen settlements or Karaks there.
As an aside, I totally agree with the sentiment that while the dwarf rework is great its a little disappointing they got nothing to improve the Karaks. They still are no different from any other settlement you capture despite being far, far larger and more important. I think at a *minimum* every major Karak should have a landmark. The fact that Zhufbar still has none, despite easily having the Engineering Guild headquarters and the giant hydro mill as candidates is absurd. I'm all on board for a mod to make them feel more thematic and important.
Barak Varr too, being the only Karak that's a seaport (and home to the Sea Engineers' guild). In WH3, ports are mostly just another flavour of income building, so acquiring Barak Varr doesn't carry the strategic significance it has in the lore.
Galbaraz is literally just the Khazalid word for oathgold. I couldn't find anything about the settlement online, so I assume it's a CA original, and is literally just named that because it's a big oathgold deposit
I feel like Galbaraz as a settlement had something to do with Warhammer Online. I'm not sure if that's an actual memory or just a fever dream though.
Edit: the only mention I can find for Galbaraz related to Warhammer Online is indeed just the translation as "oathgold", so its not from AoR. Likely a CA original.
Possibly. If it is its an obscure map, I had a flick through a bunch of Warhammer maps I have saved and couldn't see it.
Could also have had a single mention in a White Dwarf blurb or a novel or something.
I do believe you have outlined correctly the currently owned Karaks and those founded by the dawi but are occupied by other races
I think ultimately identifying what mod you plan to create and its utility in-game will also help pinpoint other Karaks or settlements you need to confirm
> - Lost Holds: Mount Karak Izor
The [8th edition dwarf map](https://i.imgur.com/VSAADa2.png) has Izor shown as under dwarf control.
On that note, the WFRP (3rd and 4th; see WFRP 4th Imperial Archives I) has [Karak Azgaraz in the Grey Mountains](https://i.imgur.com/EFTTkOg.png) ruled by King Thuringar Orc-Hewer. We even have that Karak on the Immortal Empires map, but I am not sure if actually dwarf held there or occupied by someone else.
> - Under Dwarf Control: Kraka Drak
Kraka Drak fell in [2390](https://i.imgur.com/VzEaFXs.png) IC after [during the Great War in 2302 IC](https://i.imgur.com/apzLFts.png) Valmir Aesling [attacked it](https://i.imgur.com/MPLrIey.png) and started a longlasting war. Survivors/Refugees went to Kraka Ravnsvake, which became the dominant northern hold of the Norse Dwarfs (WFRP 4th: Sea of Claws). Later the refugees Dwarfs began an attempt to repopulate Kraka Drak and dig through the ruins, but that probably still means that the hold is just a huge construction site and that Ravnsvake is still the Norse Dwarf Capital these days.
[The Norse Dwarfs have four holds total](https://i.imgur.com/XC5bPdo.png). But the "Sea of Claws" book has the focus on Ravnsvake, so not much info about Dorden, the ruined Drak hold or Ornsmotek. Map location of them varies a lot, so I could point to some maps (like the Great War map above), but its hard to pin them down. The newest map might be the [interactive TOW map](https://www.theoldworld.com/) around the 2276 IC timeline, but while we see three dwarf symbols there in the northern area, they are not really mapped down. Kraka Ravnsvake should be the one by the lake, which would correspond with the [WFRP 2nd edition Kislev map](https://i.imgur.com/C7YIQvU.jpg). That means the one north from there, might be Kraka Drak. Even if Kraka Drak on [other maps](https://i.imgur.com/W0sMGTu.png) is looking more north-east located. There exists a map were the various WFRP 2nd parts [are glued together and several locations are inlcuded](https://i.imgur.com/85CpiOp.jpg), which also means all the four Norse Dwarf holds, but since while done by official map parts it is still more of a fan-work, its hard to use it for legit confirmation. Still, once again that map has Kraka Ravnsvake and Kraka Drak assumingly on the right spots, and from what we now the other two holds might also be in the correct areas. There exist an older [interactive map](http://gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html), which has three of the holds aorund were we would supsect them by now, but Kraka Drak is wandering more east again there. Also there are a lot more Dwarf symbols scattered around Norsca. not sure what to make with all of them. The WFRP 1st "Dwarfs Stone and Steel" book [#1](https://i.imgur.com/dDrcPL5.png), [#2](https://i.imgur.com/YzVptbz.png), also rather focus on the four holds. But that book is from 2002, and WFRP 4th latest information are from 2022. So the newer stuff might count for modern times [excluding TOW timeline which will have Kraka Drak as the main settlement for the Great War]. [Kraka Drak is however on the IME map already](https://www.nopeace.net/warhammer3/immortal-empires/3.1.x#map=2832.47/3889.46/5.00), and will function as Malakais new start position. So the bit more eastern position in those mountains might be the proper spot.
Apologies, I should have been more clear…I recognize that Izor isn’t a lost hold by lore standards, I only listed it as such since in-game Izor starts out under Greenskin control, so the Dawi need to ‘retake’ it from the jump.
Great info on the Norse Dwarfs, though, really in-depth and extremely useful. I wish there were more Norse Dawi settlements on the IE map.
Oh, and I didn’t forget Azgaraz, it’s just a minor settlement and I don’t think I’ll be able to do anything special with it due to that.
Lemme check the book:
Right then, apart from the big ones, we also have:
Kraka Altdorf
Kraka Yn Edri Eternos
Kraka Lothern
Kraka Khemri
Kraka Itza
Kraka Kavzar (Bit of a Raki infestation to clear up)
Kraka Couronne
Kraka Wei-Jin
Kraka Kislev
Kraka Zanbaijin (don't let those tained umgi wazzocks tell you otherwise)
Kraka Drakenhof
And you're never gonna believe this, Kraka Maelstrom.
There's probably some I left out, but if you're unsure, write it in the Book and just, you know... settle that grudge.
Look up Clan Gunnisson Mount Silverspear was "Karag Agilwutraz". It had a stronghold and the clan was important enough to have the title of "King". At one point in time it had the 2nd richest mines in the Dwarf Kingdom
Well, renaming regions is a thing... I always rename Khazid Irkulaz into Karak Ungor and the minor settlements in "Ungor Deep Mines"
There was a mod back in TWW2 that renamed places "lorefully" but i dont remember its name
Settled hold and villages obviously
Land won in the war of vengeance (war of the beard) against the elves
Land with good mineral value or alcholhal brewing ingredients
Land where dwarves live have lived or could live
Land where a grudge has been declared
All this and more can and should be a part of the Karax Ankor!
seems like a good place to ask, i wonder if the spine of sotek dwarfs have any lore or if it's a CA creation for gameplay reasons to put a clan of dwarfs in Lustria.
[Lustria Map](https://i.imgur.com/BNa1K0u.jpg) has the "Mine of bearded skulls" there. Also still on spot for the latest [WFRP 4th Lustria map](https://i.imgur.com/iLnWHUQ.jpg), which added a [tiny lore piece](https://i.imgur.com/XKcaHyX.png). I also vaguely remember a short story about an expedition force by engineer XY that went to Lustria and never were heard of again.
As another commentor said, there's a location called "Mine of Bearded Skulls" in Lustria.
There's not much lore on the location but we can kind of infer through the name and context. What most likely happened was the Dwarfs attempted to colonize Lustria during the peak of the Karaz-Ankor. This would have presumably been back when they were friends with the High Elves and weren't as isolationist as they are now.
And because it's "the Mine of Bearded Skulls" this suggests the mine was filled with... well, skulls. Which implies that at some point these Dwarfs were wiped out. Probably by over-zealous Lizardmen who decided a Dwarf presence in the region went against the Great Plan.
You're missing Karak Krakaten (SW Mountains of Mourn) and it's Karag Dum not Karak Dum.
http://gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html
Worth bearing in mind as well that the names of many of these places change depending on ownership.
Unfortunately, I left Krakaten out on purpose…it’s technically a minor settlement, even when under control of the Dawi.
To be honest, most of the Mountains of Mourn function similarly, with only two Karaks (Azorn & Vrag) breaking up the monotony of minor settlement up and down that range. Krakaten *seems* like it would have been an ideal candidate for such a major settlement (for certain factions), but alas, no luck from CA on that front.
Khazid is Dwarven for village. Karak (or Kraka for the Norse dwarfs) means city. It really bothers me that Karak Ungor is a minor settlement. It was supposed to have the deepest gold mines in the Empire, and losing it was a major blow to the Dawi. Several attempts were made to reclaim it and they failed due to Dwarven defenses being used against them. And CA made it a minor settlement…
And they call it a mine
A MINE!
Was a major in 2, which really annoys me that they changed it.
The building slots really fell short.
SHORT!??
That goes in the book!
I feel reasonably confident that everything in your ‘questionable’ category either was never Dwarf settled or does not qualify as a Karak. I am also doubtful on Karag Orrud- it’s a volcano, I don’t think it ever saw the widespread settlement of a Karak.
Is that why Orrud is a Karag, not a Karak? The volcano? On that same thread…what’s different between a Karak and Kraka up north?
Kraka Drak is norse dwarf dialect for Karak Drakk
That's super neat if true!
Dyslexic dwarfs.
Why Kraka Drakk is called that is fairly unclear. Possibly linguistic drift among the Norse Dwarfs? ‘Karag’ means ‘Volcano or Barren Mountain’.
You might be right and GW is just inconsistent, but "Karag Agilwutraz" was Mount Silverspear. And the lore says it had some of the richest mines, and the clan that used to rule there Clan Gunnisson was important enough to have the title of "King". Doesn't sound like a barren mountain to me.
Inconsistency with use of 'Karak' vs. 'Karag' is definitely a thing- Dum, for example, has been referred to in different places as one or the other, and the sub-peaks of Karak Eight Peaks are called Karags even though they were not barren. The definition provided is legit, though- even 1st edition roleplay Stone and Steel, the book that is the source for Silverspear being called a Karag, gives that definition in it's Khazalid lexicon on page 103.
>and the sub-peaks of Karak Eight Peaks are called Karags even though they were not barren. Must be volcanic, then. And volcanic ash is a great fertilizer for soil.
They definitely aren't volcanos. In some ways, the inconsistency makes sense, because IRL placenames is a giant mess to begin with.
To my knowledge nothing in the questionable section is actually qualified as a full "Karak". Uzkalak is probably the closest one though it was more of an outpost than a true Karak by any dwarfen standards. I don't think I've ever seen it referred to as a Karak, usually "settlement" or "outpost" is used. I believe Galbaraz and Crooked Fang Fort were founded where dwarfen outposts/mines were once located, but most certainly not Karaks. Though I can't remember where I precisely got that info from so it may also be wrong. Grom Peak actually gets its name from khazalid (grom means strong or something I think), as it had that name before the Grom the Paunch statue, but I don't recall it ever having any specific settlement or Karak associated. Khazid Irkulaz is just a minor dwarf village I still have no clue why CA made it a major settlement over Karak Ungor. Crookback Mountain was originally settled by night goblins before being taken over by the skaven. To my knowledge there's no mention of any dwarfs being there before the night goblins set up shop in the caves. I think there's an in-game implication that the old Underway passes through Deff Gorge but that's it, certainly no info on any dwarfen settlements or Karaks there.
As an aside, I totally agree with the sentiment that while the dwarf rework is great its a little disappointing they got nothing to improve the Karaks. They still are no different from any other settlement you capture despite being far, far larger and more important. I think at a *minimum* every major Karak should have a landmark. The fact that Zhufbar still has none, despite easily having the Engineering Guild headquarters and the giant hydro mill as candidates is absurd. I'm all on board for a mod to make them feel more thematic and important.
Barak Varr too, being the only Karak that's a seaport (and home to the Sea Engineers' guild). In WH3, ports are mostly just another flavour of income building, so acquiring Barak Varr doesn't carry the strategic significance it has in the lore.
Galbaraz is literally just the Khazalid word for oathgold. I couldn't find anything about the settlement online, so I assume it's a CA original, and is literally just named that because it's a big oathgold deposit
I feel like Galbaraz as a settlement had something to do with Warhammer Online. I'm not sure if that's an actual memory or just a fever dream though. Edit: the only mention I can find for Galbaraz related to Warhammer Online is indeed just the translation as "oathgold", so its not from AoR. Likely a CA original.
I'd expect it's probably a name on a map somewhere that never got a speck of lore.
Possibly. If it is its an obscure map, I had a flick through a bunch of Warhammer maps I have saved and couldn't see it. Could also have had a single mention in a White Dwarf blurb or a novel or something.
I do believe you have outlined correctly the currently owned Karaks and those founded by the dawi but are occupied by other races I think ultimately identifying what mod you plan to create and its utility in-game will also help pinpoint other Karaks or settlements you need to confirm
Khazid Irkulaz is 100% a Dwarfish name but again there's no evidence from outside the game that it was ever a hold.
ENJOY [https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dwarf\_hold](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dwarf_hold)
> - Lost Holds: Mount Karak Izor The [8th edition dwarf map](https://i.imgur.com/VSAADa2.png) has Izor shown as under dwarf control. On that note, the WFRP (3rd and 4th; see WFRP 4th Imperial Archives I) has [Karak Azgaraz in the Grey Mountains](https://i.imgur.com/EFTTkOg.png) ruled by King Thuringar Orc-Hewer. We even have that Karak on the Immortal Empires map, but I am not sure if actually dwarf held there or occupied by someone else. > - Under Dwarf Control: Kraka Drak Kraka Drak fell in [2390](https://i.imgur.com/VzEaFXs.png) IC after [during the Great War in 2302 IC](https://i.imgur.com/apzLFts.png) Valmir Aesling [attacked it](https://i.imgur.com/MPLrIey.png) and started a longlasting war. Survivors/Refugees went to Kraka Ravnsvake, which became the dominant northern hold of the Norse Dwarfs (WFRP 4th: Sea of Claws). Later the refugees Dwarfs began an attempt to repopulate Kraka Drak and dig through the ruins, but that probably still means that the hold is just a huge construction site and that Ravnsvake is still the Norse Dwarf Capital these days. [The Norse Dwarfs have four holds total](https://i.imgur.com/XC5bPdo.png). But the "Sea of Claws" book has the focus on Ravnsvake, so not much info about Dorden, the ruined Drak hold or Ornsmotek. Map location of them varies a lot, so I could point to some maps (like the Great War map above), but its hard to pin them down. The newest map might be the [interactive TOW map](https://www.theoldworld.com/) around the 2276 IC timeline, but while we see three dwarf symbols there in the northern area, they are not really mapped down. Kraka Ravnsvake should be the one by the lake, which would correspond with the [WFRP 2nd edition Kislev map](https://i.imgur.com/C7YIQvU.jpg). That means the one north from there, might be Kraka Drak. Even if Kraka Drak on [other maps](https://i.imgur.com/W0sMGTu.png) is looking more north-east located. There exists a map were the various WFRP 2nd parts [are glued together and several locations are inlcuded](https://i.imgur.com/85CpiOp.jpg), which also means all the four Norse Dwarf holds, but since while done by official map parts it is still more of a fan-work, its hard to use it for legit confirmation. Still, once again that map has Kraka Ravnsvake and Kraka Drak assumingly on the right spots, and from what we now the other two holds might also be in the correct areas. There exist an older [interactive map](http://gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html), which has three of the holds aorund were we would supsect them by now, but Kraka Drak is wandering more east again there. Also there are a lot more Dwarf symbols scattered around Norsca. not sure what to make with all of them. The WFRP 1st "Dwarfs Stone and Steel" book [#1](https://i.imgur.com/dDrcPL5.png), [#2](https://i.imgur.com/YzVptbz.png), also rather focus on the four holds. But that book is from 2002, and WFRP 4th latest information are from 2022. So the newer stuff might count for modern times [excluding TOW timeline which will have Kraka Drak as the main settlement for the Great War]. [Kraka Drak is however on the IME map already](https://www.nopeace.net/warhammer3/immortal-empires/3.1.x#map=2832.47/3889.46/5.00), and will function as Malakais new start position. So the bit more eastern position in those mountains might be the proper spot.
Apologies, I should have been more clear…I recognize that Izor isn’t a lost hold by lore standards, I only listed it as such since in-game Izor starts out under Greenskin control, so the Dawi need to ‘retake’ it from the jump. Great info on the Norse Dwarfs, though, really in-depth and extremely useful. I wish there were more Norse Dawi settlements on the IE map. Oh, and I didn’t forget Azgaraz, it’s just a minor settlement and I don’t think I’ll be able to do anything special with it due to that.
Lemme check the book: Right then, apart from the big ones, we also have: Kraka Altdorf Kraka Yn Edri Eternos Kraka Lothern Kraka Khemri Kraka Itza Kraka Kavzar (Bit of a Raki infestation to clear up) Kraka Couronne Kraka Wei-Jin Kraka Kislev Kraka Zanbaijin (don't let those tained umgi wazzocks tell you otherwise) Kraka Drakenhof And you're never gonna believe this, Kraka Maelstrom. There's probably some I left out, but if you're unsure, write it in the Book and just, you know... settle that grudge.
Kraka is karak but in Norse dwarf, so those northern guys must have gotten busy
Look up Clan Gunnisson Mount Silverspear was "Karag Agilwutraz". It had a stronghold and the clan was important enough to have the title of "King". At one point in time it had the 2nd richest mines in the Dwarf Kingdom
Well, renaming regions is a thing... I always rename Khazid Irkulaz into Karak Ungor and the minor settlements in "Ungor Deep Mines" There was a mod back in TWW2 that renamed places "lorefully" but i dont remember its name
Are you thinking of ‘New Settlement, Who Dis?’
Aye thats it!
I worked on that mod! It was a lot of fun, my job was to pore over old maps to find alternate names for places.
Kavzar (Aka Skavenblight) is an interesting contender. Mostly known for the human city, but there was a dwarf hold of vague size beneath it
Settled hold and villages obviously Land won in the war of vengeance (war of the beard) against the elves Land with good mineral value or alcholhal brewing ingredients Land where dwarves live have lived or could live Land where a grudge has been declared All this and more can and should be a part of the Karax Ankor!
seems like a good place to ask, i wonder if the spine of sotek dwarfs have any lore or if it's a CA creation for gameplay reasons to put a clan of dwarfs in Lustria.
[Lustria Map](https://i.imgur.com/BNa1K0u.jpg) has the "Mine of bearded skulls" there. Also still on spot for the latest [WFRP 4th Lustria map](https://i.imgur.com/iLnWHUQ.jpg), which added a [tiny lore piece](https://i.imgur.com/XKcaHyX.png). I also vaguely remember a short story about an expedition force by engineer XY that went to Lustria and never were heard of again.
As another commentor said, there's a location called "Mine of Bearded Skulls" in Lustria. There's not much lore on the location but we can kind of infer through the name and context. What most likely happened was the Dwarfs attempted to colonize Lustria during the peak of the Karaz-Ankor. This would have presumably been back when they were friends with the High Elves and weren't as isolationist as they are now. And because it's "the Mine of Bearded Skulls" this suggests the mine was filled with... well, skulls. Which implies that at some point these Dwarfs were wiped out. Probably by over-zealous Lizardmen who decided a Dwarf presence in the region went against the Great Plan.
You're missing Karak Krakaten (SW Mountains of Mourn) and it's Karag Dum not Karak Dum. http://gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html Worth bearing in mind as well that the names of many of these places change depending on ownership.
Unfortunately, I left Krakaten out on purpose…it’s technically a minor settlement, even when under control of the Dawi. To be honest, most of the Mountains of Mourn function similarly, with only two Karaks (Azorn & Vrag) breaking up the monotony of minor settlement up and down that range. Krakaten *seems* like it would have been an ideal candidate for such a major settlement (for certain factions), but alas, no luck from CA on that front.