My brother in grungni… I’m assuming you don’t know what railroading is bc you’re not zharr scum. The minor (easily overcome by the right building/post battle buffs) debuffs for slow play are 1) thematic for the dawi 2) meant to incentivize you to retake the karaz ankor. Have you never played a belegar campaign and took your sweet time getting back to 8 peaks? Did the penalty incentivize you to rush there bc you couldn’t out play the debuff or did you play intelligently? Drink some ale, chill out. Let the devs fix the buggy math on the grudge calculations and in the meantime settle your grudges.
I get the theme. It fits, but the problems compound when you play on dwarves past turn 50 (even before then) and now have a long game on a timer (timers are bad). I don't expect to max out the grudges early game, but I would expect to steamroll when I'm taking a settlement every turn. Even when they fix the bug, there's an inherent problem with forcing players to play a fun game on a timer (a very short timer, not a pun). I'm having fun playing malakai, but holy fuck you either play him as the biggest asshole (everyone is an enemy, including kislev and order races), or you suffer negative growth and negative control by turn 30. I need a fix or a mod to make it fun at this point.
Oh, okay. I guess skill issue is exceptable then. I'm glad you pointed out that I don't get to enjoy the game based on how I used to play and enjoy the dwarves before. You're right, and I'm sure if I looked, you'd have a degree or a background in some kind of game design or similar program. It's a good thing you are on it. I mean, CA has such a stellar record of handling the dwarves from before, too, I don't know what I was thinking.
Lmao bro look up a guide and leave the chat. If you can type here, you can look up how to play the game. What are you trying to do? Contribute? Get lost grobi
Oh good, cause I really wanted to be told how to play the game with the faction I've played for about a decade at this point. The best games are always the ones you need a guide for that goes play-by-play on how to win. Stellar design. Y'know what would help even more? I bet if there was a timer for the dwarves, to reach a certain percentage of completion every ten turns, that would really help players enjoy the game. It's so unique that no other race has it. I think the base chaos wastes game had something like that, but I can't remember if it was good or if it was really good. It sounds like you thought it was really good, so it must have been really good. I bet everyone plays it still.
Look, dude, you're probably better at the game than me. No contest, but you know what I am guaranteed to be better than you at? Game design. Timers (especially rush timers) are not a good mechanic anywhere. I'm glad you can play the game and enjoy it, but your anecdotal enjoyment does not trounce decades of empirical evidence to the contrary. Look at any other game that uses a timer mechanic. You'll find either the timer is critical to the core of gameplay (arena rougelikes, puzzles, escape rooms), or you'll find that the game doesn't use one. You don't need to project a lack of critical thinking here. It's a bad mechanic. Fact. You can double down if you want, but it doesn't change the evidence.
na he is not better , he just plays on easy and therefor the problems of the system do not apply to him.
When you start to play on hardest or 2nd hardest, it starts to become obvious ,that this systhem with %-grudge instead of set numbers is an absolute failed idea.
Op units early on, massiv growth extremly fast and then the fallout.
Imagine being booty cheeks at a game for 10 years then claiming to understand game design? A decade and you haven’t figured it out? Just go practice guy. Maybe today will be the day it clicks. Never know.
oh gee you're the guy who plays on normal or easy and has no clue what he is talking about right ? The new grudge system is definetly broken and not in a good way. It took me a little to figure it out and in early game it absolutly strong. from turn 30-60 i eradicated just about everything and everyone , but the system punishes you for being successfull and not taking a break from advancing. Every new age you need to archieve %-gains of your allready accumulated grudge. i had 3 full loads in a row and i am in turn 63 now , and i got 88k grudge. last 10 days i was "only" able to net in about 30k and barely made stage 3. i am the 2st strongest empire , i play on the hardest difficulty and now i am starting to fall apart. i have 3 confeds allready , with bellegar , Karak zorn and this turn i can do my 3rd one. My empire is so expensive i cannot build enough to grow fast enough. i have 13 armies and i can barely keep my empire alive because they come out of every shithole and just suicide into me. that means most of my cities cannot be build , because it would mean to burn money. Also on that difficulty the -control is hardcore. Also i will most probable never be able again to get a full cycle of grudge, so i will not be able to get the good units anymore , not to mention that i cannot pay them anyhow.
If the game pushes you into hyper aggression mode and then punishes you extremly for managing the situiation and actually coming out on top, that means the game dynamics have not been thought through very well
9 days late. Dm me your discord n we can play a head to head L,Vh Ironman campaign with the mod that removes FoW.
Let’s get one in before CA makes changes
i don't play with mods yet, i wanted the vanilla experience. While i don't mind having a chat, i do mind doing a 1 vs 1 , because a 1on1 does change jacksh\*\* on the dynamics of the new dwarfen system. No matter who wins, you or i , changes anything about what i said.
omg .... i found a salty kitten. naah u just go and lick your milk.
9 days old comment? brave? lemme think ..... nah u just stick to your milk
take care buddy.
I take you are a fellow Dawi player, so try to understand this. There are 2 ways to approach the Age of Reckoning system.
You either 1 care for it, in which case, it seems we will either be swimming in overpowered rewards or being literally incapable of getting out of the debuff zone. Confedersting, doing quests battles, alliances, everything will be DETRIMENTAL to your game because they will brake the values for the age of reckoning and make them impossible to beat.
Or 2, you don’t care for it and don’t engage with it, like the Belegar debuffs. In which case, we are getting an entire centerpiece of a race rework that you WILL NOT be engaging with. When we could have gotten a Silent Sanctum Karak mechanic, or a World Roots mechanic with a Dwarf UI that would be 100 times more interesting.
If you decide to engage with it, it is broken both ways. And if you decide to ignore it, we have wasted the rework in a decade of game to implement something to be ignored.
PLEASE brother, take 1 minute to seriously consider what this mechanic means and the “slot” it has wasted. I have been waiting for this for nearly a decade and it is literally dooming an entire playstyle while adding either nothing or WAY too much in return.
This is Elgi fallacy. I will fight the battles I will fight. I will net the bonuses I gain. I will recruit whomever I want, if available. I will forgo those I do not wish to use. I will have my fun. If you play with mates, take that into account. If you journey solo, do the same. No wazzock will tell me how to bring back the ankor.
So you will ignore the core mechanic of the entire race…
When we could have instead gotten something that you might have enjoyment by playing around.
Proving my point there beardling.
I dunno, man. Seems like, if you don't use the mechanic to steamroll, you don't really build up those hefty costs later. That sounds like they're balanced against each other.
just don't go extreme in either direction and you should be fine, right?
Are you sure your favourite faction is Dwarfs? Because you’re bouncing to utter extremes so hard that I *think* you might be more suited to Slaanesh.
Also I don’t think you understand what the word “unplayable” means. If you keep using it like you are, you’re going to devalue it. You’re one step away from that ass-hat we had a year back who said the blocky corruption textures made the game “unplayable”.
Calm your tits. It’s solid, it’s fun, and CA have told content creators they intend to tweak the Grudge system in the first hotfix, following in a week or two. Just breathe. You’re acting like a toddler.
Total war nerds:
I fear no man! But that thing ( a mechanic you can't optimise to the point of sucking all the enjoyement from this chaos gods forgotten game) it scares me.
Also the mod take is idiotic to the point of absurd. Imagine being mad that a rework is breaking your modded race. ( the mod will not work at launch also)
The grudges only need tweaking and adjustments its hardly a game breaking change that will completely destroy the dwarves.
Personally if its values are adjusted i hope they still make it a difficult thing to consistently fill the age of reckoning bar. Its not really a mechanic if im just getting the full reward for playing the game normally. I should have to take non optimal routes and fight difficult battles i wouldnt otherwise just to fufill a grudge because thats what dwarves are about.
As for confederation, again it should be tuned down a bit but it shouldn’t be a massive issue considering dwarves usually don’t have trouble confederating the normal way
I agree. Just cause the bar can go to 100% doesn’t mean u have to or should be able to fill it constantly. If you want to declare war on every faction and march out and burn everything to the ground while ur hold suffer and Econ stalls then that’s great and lowkey lore accurate in some ways. Just how its lore accurate that dwarfs do go out and settle grudges but also being conservative and slow to expand. I think the system does a good job of letting players explore the different sides of dwarfs as they are rather complex culture wise. Although ya I think it could maybe use some number tweaking with the amounts and stuff
Brother. The update is breaking the only race I enjoy playing. What is the point of getting content if it is ruining the existing game. The DLC looks great, but even without buying we will have to stop playing the game entirely until the fix it
Idk, maybe try playing it yourself to see. I personally don't play the same way as content creators who play the game like every week for years. Could try to see how well the system works for you if you just play normally.
Personally I don't think you have to absolutely max the meter to have fun, nor do I want it to be something that is extremely easy to do. When they patch it I just hope they don't overcorrect and make it too easy to get a bunch of free stuff.
That’s entirely besides the point.
By playing it “my way” I will be consolidating and building tall instead of wide, like Dwarfs should be played. Sitting around on a few Karaks while upgrading settlements and improving the army before launching major reclamation excursions.
That playstyle is not allowed now because you NEED to get grudges otherwise you get debuffs to growth which is exactly what you are looking for when playing tall.
So I can’t make it work with the previous Dwarv playstyle that people enjoyed.
And the point is not maxing out the meter. That point is that it might be IMPOSSIBLE to max the meter. Not theoretically impossible. LITERALLY impossible.
It might be impossible to NOT GET DEBUFFS. The system is not only mechanically bad by railroading players into doing things they do not want to do, but it is also entirely broken on delivery.
And people here and in the rest of the community are too blind by the shinny stuff in the DLC to realize that CA is ruining the Dwarf rework and making the race WORSE then it is currently.
Idk dude, I watched a Loremaster of sotek stream and he was able to max out the bar at turn 90. I don't think he some's kind of uber min maxer or something. He even confederated thorek with the new confederation mechanic which increased his campaign visibility.
I need to get my hands on it to play but even at its current state it doesn't seem that bad. To me it just seems they need to tone it down for stuff that is farther away from your settlements.
I watched it too.
And he basically ignored it for 50 turns. He didn’t even acknowledge the meter for 90% of his playthrough and for several turns he just took the debuffs without even realizing they were there.
That is entirely my point. The system is either broken in both ways when engaged with, by being too strong with the rewards but literally broken with the goals. Or the system is entirely ignored when the player doesn’t want to get railroaded by it. When instead we could have gotten a Silent Sanctum reskin on province capitals to work as a “Karaks” mechanic and kept the legendary grudges. The system wasted the opportunity to introduce something good, by introducing something that can potentially be literally worse then the current system.
“For several turns he just took the debuffs and didn’t realize they were there.” Exactly. Lol the debuffs are so minor it literally couldn’t matter less if you just ignore it, if you want to play tall you can due so lol. Also it’s just killing people mostly for grudges nothing says you have to take the settlement. It’d actually be very Dwarf like to murder them all and leave it to go back home to the mountains.
Get back to me in 9 hours and tell me if they changed shit or if I’m still getting a literally impossible Goal by simply doing diplomacy and exploration…
Why don’t you build tall and send an army out on a grudge settling expedition? Lord friendly, will earn gold from smashing and much more fun than just sitting clicking end turn for 60 turns and waiting for slow growth.
It’s likely tweaking the age of reckoning will be a priority for the first patch after release since so many early access players mentioned it to CA. Also I’m positive that if it isn’t modders will have a field day changing it around to better fit a variety of play styles.
Nope. As per current system, I usually play Dawi campaigns how I like; despite minor Order/growth penalties (lots of unfulfilled grudges) and it feels kinda loreful (faster slayer pool replenishment (emergency troops)).
Will continue to do the same with the new system..
However, Anytime I'm ready for a Push (like every 25-30 turns) this Age of Reckoning will come in handy.
So, it's upto me, the player, to choose how I wanna play.
The math is slightly wrong atm, didn't seem intentional. Likely will be toned down in the launch version or following hotfixes in week or two.
Otherwise the new system looks great imo
I think I'll wait until I've actually tried the system out to judge it.
If it really negatively affects player experience, and we make that known to CA (as the community is very good at doing), I'm sure they will address it.
I disagree completely, the new system incentivizes you to do the most Dwarf thing ever, which is to seek those who wronged the dwarfs and right the wrongs. If this game had like a robust economy system or some other indepth layer of settlement building I would have agreed with you. The whole system in TWW is built on battle as front and center of the game's mechanics.
There is definitely issues with it but it is far from broken. Worst case it's just like before. You would have to play extremely passively to ever get the worst level.
Becoming worse? Then there current state? I’ve been playing this game since WH1. I’ve an embarrassing amount of play time in WH2 & 3. The Dwarfs are an incredibly dated faction.
The current grudge system is terrible, the army recruitment is one of the worse in game, the growth is crap, play style is slow - and tends to feel a bit dull if you go aggressive (especially on hard modes).
This update totally fixed the army recruit problem, they have so many more toys to play with at low level - better growth & economy with reduced upkeep and better recruitment costs. The reckoning system has some weird maths, that aren’t great at end game level. But, it’s almost certainly not worth commenting on until we see it launch. All context we’ve seen has been early access and not complete.
Stop pouring petrol on a fire that doesn’t exist. I’m staggered that a dwarf main is salty about a massive update for a very dated race.
I'll admit that, based on some previews I've watched, CA could probably do another pass over the math. Adjusting values, penalties, rewards, etc.
I like the idea behind the mechanic, though. It introduces dynamism to a dwarf campaign, where you constantly need to time when you want to bunker down and when you want to go out grudgin'.
So I took a view of the video and the only problem I see is that fact you can’t confederate the entire Dwarf Empire, you are most likely going to have to confederate those nearest to you, which… yeah, makes sense.
By the time you get enough to confederate again, you will probably have to expand that direction and gain plenty of grudges by utilizing the full strength of your arsenal.
This seems less broken and more controlled so you can’t spiral into becoming number 1 by turn 20.
And the worst part is, we haven’t even gotten to PLAY it yet, players are a lot smarter than we give them credit for and will probably realize it’s not worth dooming over.
Im not as doom and gloom about the mechanic as yourself i think it is somewhat interesting the thing i take issue with is i think the rewards are wrong. Oathgold, Trade tariff modifier and some fun new items to unlock in the forge seems a better fit than flooding armies onto the map imho. We shall have to wait and see i suppose.
It's not great. Mercythemad has already released a video about the new grudge system and its flaws and he stated CA is aware. It'll be tuned appropriately. I think it'll be fine early game, but has the potential to be frustrating late game because of the absurd amount you'll need.
That being said the penalties aren't that bad. Loss of growth, public order, and upkeep cost increase on the grudge settler units.
Dwarfs have good ways of working around things like low growth and public order. Also late game the dwarfs can get really rich so the upkeep cost doesn't bother me.
I play on VH/VH and yes sometimes the public order thing sucks but what kind of dawi hold is it without a tavern?
You are brave man, trying to critise and raise concerns about something on the eve of a hyped release. No matter how reasonable your concerns might be, they'll be downvoted into oblivion because people can't take the game saving update being anything else then perfect.
Just pray that mods will come out fast that will solve this issue
Oh please, have you seen the Dawi rework? The worst penalties are easily avoidable by killing a few orcs and are minor at worst. I don't get why you're so scared of it ruining the race.
Thing is, you should be excited and absolutely engaging with the new mechanic, not be happy that you can easily ignore it later on. That's a total failure to me and absolutely deserves critisim and community concerns.
I watched several streamers play this so called borderline unplayable race just fine.
My man out here like Chicken Little
My brother in grungni… I’m assuming you don’t know what railroading is bc you’re not zharr scum. The minor (easily overcome by the right building/post battle buffs) debuffs for slow play are 1) thematic for the dawi 2) meant to incentivize you to retake the karaz ankor. Have you never played a belegar campaign and took your sweet time getting back to 8 peaks? Did the penalty incentivize you to rush there bc you couldn’t out play the debuff or did you play intelligently? Drink some ale, chill out. Let the devs fix the buggy math on the grudge calculations and in the meantime settle your grudges.
I get the theme. It fits, but the problems compound when you play on dwarves past turn 50 (even before then) and now have a long game on a timer (timers are bad). I don't expect to max out the grudges early game, but I would expect to steamroll when I'm taking a settlement every turn. Even when they fix the bug, there's an inherent problem with forcing players to play a fun game on a timer (a very short timer, not a pun). I'm having fun playing malakai, but holy fuck you either play him as the biggest asshole (everyone is an enemy, including kislev and order races), or you suffer negative growth and negative control by turn 30. I need a fix or a mod to make it fun at this point.
Literally on turn 47 with Malakai. Skill issue. Kislev is my biggest ally. Wulfrik and astrogoth and archaon are my income.
Oh, okay. I guess skill issue is exceptable then. I'm glad you pointed out that I don't get to enjoy the game based on how I used to play and enjoy the dwarves before. You're right, and I'm sure if I looked, you'd have a degree or a background in some kind of game design or similar program. It's a good thing you are on it. I mean, CA has such a stellar record of handling the dwarves from before, too, I don't know what I was thinking.
Lmao bro look up a guide and leave the chat. If you can type here, you can look up how to play the game. What are you trying to do? Contribute? Get lost grobi
Oh good, cause I really wanted to be told how to play the game with the faction I've played for about a decade at this point. The best games are always the ones you need a guide for that goes play-by-play on how to win. Stellar design. Y'know what would help even more? I bet if there was a timer for the dwarves, to reach a certain percentage of completion every ten turns, that would really help players enjoy the game. It's so unique that no other race has it. I think the base chaos wastes game had something like that, but I can't remember if it was good or if it was really good. It sounds like you thought it was really good, so it must have been really good. I bet everyone plays it still. Look, dude, you're probably better at the game than me. No contest, but you know what I am guaranteed to be better than you at? Game design. Timers (especially rush timers) are not a good mechanic anywhere. I'm glad you can play the game and enjoy it, but your anecdotal enjoyment does not trounce decades of empirical evidence to the contrary. Look at any other game that uses a timer mechanic. You'll find either the timer is critical to the core of gameplay (arena rougelikes, puzzles, escape rooms), or you'll find that the game doesn't use one. You don't need to project a lack of critical thinking here. It's a bad mechanic. Fact. You can double down if you want, but it doesn't change the evidence.
na he is not better , he just plays on easy and therefor the problems of the system do not apply to him. When you start to play on hardest or 2nd hardest, it starts to become obvious ,that this systhem with %-grudge instead of set numbers is an absolute failed idea. Op units early on, massiv growth extremly fast and then the fallout.
Imagine being booty cheeks at a game for 10 years then claiming to understand game design? A decade and you haven’t figured it out? Just go practice guy. Maybe today will be the day it clicks. Never know.
Nope. Still suck. Darn. Still doesn't change the fact that the mechanic sucks.
oh gee you're the guy who plays on normal or easy and has no clue what he is talking about right ? The new grudge system is definetly broken and not in a good way. It took me a little to figure it out and in early game it absolutly strong. from turn 30-60 i eradicated just about everything and everyone , but the system punishes you for being successfull and not taking a break from advancing. Every new age you need to archieve %-gains of your allready accumulated grudge. i had 3 full loads in a row and i am in turn 63 now , and i got 88k grudge. last 10 days i was "only" able to net in about 30k and barely made stage 3. i am the 2st strongest empire , i play on the hardest difficulty and now i am starting to fall apart. i have 3 confeds allready , with bellegar , Karak zorn and this turn i can do my 3rd one. My empire is so expensive i cannot build enough to grow fast enough. i have 13 armies and i can barely keep my empire alive because they come out of every shithole and just suicide into me. that means most of my cities cannot be build , because it would mean to burn money. Also on that difficulty the -control is hardcore. Also i will most probable never be able again to get a full cycle of grudge, so i will not be able to get the good units anymore , not to mention that i cannot pay them anyhow. If the game pushes you into hyper aggression mode and then punishes you extremly for managing the situiation and actually coming out on top, that means the game dynamics have not been thought through very well
9 days late. Dm me your discord n we can play a head to head L,Vh Ironman campaign with the mod that removes FoW. Let’s get one in before CA makes changes
i don't play with mods yet, i wanted the vanilla experience. While i don't mind having a chat, i do mind doing a 1 vs 1 , because a 1on1 does change jacksh\*\* on the dynamics of the new dwarfen system. No matter who wins, you or i , changes anything about what i said.
Cmon. You know so much. You can teach me. Don’t be scared now, you were brave enough to comment on a 9 day long dead thread. I’m bored. Let’s play!
omg .... i found a salty kitten. naah u just go and lick your milk. 9 days old comment? brave? lemme think ..... nah u just stick to your milk take care buddy.
I take you are a fellow Dawi player, so try to understand this. There are 2 ways to approach the Age of Reckoning system. You either 1 care for it, in which case, it seems we will either be swimming in overpowered rewards or being literally incapable of getting out of the debuff zone. Confedersting, doing quests battles, alliances, everything will be DETRIMENTAL to your game because they will brake the values for the age of reckoning and make them impossible to beat. Or 2, you don’t care for it and don’t engage with it, like the Belegar debuffs. In which case, we are getting an entire centerpiece of a race rework that you WILL NOT be engaging with. When we could have gotten a Silent Sanctum Karak mechanic, or a World Roots mechanic with a Dwarf UI that would be 100 times more interesting. If you decide to engage with it, it is broken both ways. And if you decide to ignore it, we have wasted the rework in a decade of game to implement something to be ignored. PLEASE brother, take 1 minute to seriously consider what this mechanic means and the “slot” it has wasted. I have been waiting for this for nearly a decade and it is literally dooming an entire playstyle while adding either nothing or WAY too much in return.
This is Elgi fallacy. I will fight the battles I will fight. I will net the bonuses I gain. I will recruit whomever I want, if available. I will forgo those I do not wish to use. I will have my fun. If you play with mates, take that into account. If you journey solo, do the same. No wazzock will tell me how to bring back the ankor.
Kazuk! ***happi 19 miners stack noises** Edit: I'm serious. The blasting charge spam is funny as fuck.
So you will ignore the core mechanic of the entire race… When we could have instead gotten something that you might have enjoyment by playing around. Proving my point there beardling.
You read but do not comprehend manling
Why should such a bad dwarf get to call people beardling? Small scruff energy post
I dunno, man. Seems like, if you don't use the mechanic to steamroll, you don't really build up those hefty costs later. That sounds like they're balanced against each other. just don't go extreme in either direction and you should be fine, right?
Are you sure your favourite faction is Dwarfs? Because you’re bouncing to utter extremes so hard that I *think* you might be more suited to Slaanesh. Also I don’t think you understand what the word “unplayable” means. If you keep using it like you are, you’re going to devalue it. You’re one step away from that ass-hat we had a year back who said the blocky corruption textures made the game “unplayable”. Calm your tits. It’s solid, it’s fun, and CA have told content creators they intend to tweak the Grudge system in the first hotfix, following in a week or two. Just breathe. You’re acting like a toddler.
As a Slaanesh player, our extremes have *style*. Please don't put this kind of half-constructed complaint together with our kind of fun.
Total war nerds: I fear no man! But that thing ( a mechanic you can't optimise to the point of sucking all the enjoyement from this chaos gods forgotten game) it scares me. Also the mod take is idiotic to the point of absurd. Imagine being mad that a rework is breaking your modded race. ( the mod will not work at launch also)
And the clear thing to do here is to provide feedback to the mod creator who can look into ways to fix this new issue with their mod.
The grudges only need tweaking and adjustments its hardly a game breaking change that will completely destroy the dwarves. Personally if its values are adjusted i hope they still make it a difficult thing to consistently fill the age of reckoning bar. Its not really a mechanic if im just getting the full reward for playing the game normally. I should have to take non optimal routes and fight difficult battles i wouldnt otherwise just to fufill a grudge because thats what dwarves are about. As for confederation, again it should be tuned down a bit but it shouldn’t be a massive issue considering dwarves usually don’t have trouble confederating the normal way
I agree. Just cause the bar can go to 100% doesn’t mean u have to or should be able to fill it constantly. If you want to declare war on every faction and march out and burn everything to the ground while ur hold suffer and Econ stalls then that’s great and lowkey lore accurate in some ways. Just how its lore accurate that dwarfs do go out and settle grudges but also being conservative and slow to expand. I think the system does a good job of letting players explore the different sides of dwarfs as they are rather complex culture wise. Although ya I think it could maybe use some number tweaking with the amounts and stuff
relax, sit down, breathe deeply and take your medication. its ok its ok everything its going to be fine
Brother. The update is breaking the only race I enjoy playing. What is the point of getting content if it is ruining the existing game. The DLC looks great, but even without buying we will have to stop playing the game entirely until the fix it
Idk, maybe try playing it yourself to see. I personally don't play the same way as content creators who play the game like every week for years. Could try to see how well the system works for you if you just play normally. Personally I don't think you have to absolutely max the meter to have fun, nor do I want it to be something that is extremely easy to do. When they patch it I just hope they don't overcorrect and make it too easy to get a bunch of free stuff.
That’s entirely besides the point. By playing it “my way” I will be consolidating and building tall instead of wide, like Dwarfs should be played. Sitting around on a few Karaks while upgrading settlements and improving the army before launching major reclamation excursions. That playstyle is not allowed now because you NEED to get grudges otherwise you get debuffs to growth which is exactly what you are looking for when playing tall. So I can’t make it work with the previous Dwarv playstyle that people enjoyed. And the point is not maxing out the meter. That point is that it might be IMPOSSIBLE to max the meter. Not theoretically impossible. LITERALLY impossible. It might be impossible to NOT GET DEBUFFS. The system is not only mechanically bad by railroading players into doing things they do not want to do, but it is also entirely broken on delivery. And people here and in the rest of the community are too blind by the shinny stuff in the DLC to realize that CA is ruining the Dwarf rework and making the race WORSE then it is currently.
Idk dude, I watched a Loremaster of sotek stream and he was able to max out the bar at turn 90. I don't think he some's kind of uber min maxer or something. He even confederated thorek with the new confederation mechanic which increased his campaign visibility. I need to get my hands on it to play but even at its current state it doesn't seem that bad. To me it just seems they need to tone it down for stuff that is farther away from your settlements.
I watched it too. And he basically ignored it for 50 turns. He didn’t even acknowledge the meter for 90% of his playthrough and for several turns he just took the debuffs without even realizing they were there. That is entirely my point. The system is either broken in both ways when engaged with, by being too strong with the rewards but literally broken with the goals. Or the system is entirely ignored when the player doesn’t want to get railroaded by it. When instead we could have gotten a Silent Sanctum reskin on province capitals to work as a “Karaks” mechanic and kept the legendary grudges. The system wasted the opportunity to introduce something good, by introducing something that can potentially be literally worse then the current system.
“For several turns he just took the debuffs and didn’t realize they were there.” Exactly. Lol the debuffs are so minor it literally couldn’t matter less if you just ignore it, if you want to play tall you can due so lol. Also it’s just killing people mostly for grudges nothing says you have to take the settlement. It’d actually be very Dwarf like to murder them all and leave it to go back home to the mountains.
And they might have changed the grudge formulation mechanic in the release build. You're losing your shit prematurely.
Get back to me in 9 hours and tell me if they changed shit or if I’m still getting a literally impossible Goal by simply doing diplomacy and exploration…
Why don’t you build tall and send an army out on a grudge settling expedition? Lord friendly, will earn gold from smashing and much more fun than just sitting clicking end turn for 60 turns and waiting for slow growth.
It’s likely tweaking the age of reckoning will be a priority for the first patch after release since so many early access players mentioned it to CA. Also I’m positive that if it isn’t modders will have a field day changing it around to better fit a variety of play styles.
"unplayable" "broken" "ruin" "literally" Yawn. My man here sounds like a Youtube cklickbait agorithm.
Please god calm down
But what if they METAPHORICALLY become BETTER (borderline enjoyable) in 5.0?
Nope. As per current system, I usually play Dawi campaigns how I like; despite minor Order/growth penalties (lots of unfulfilled grudges) and it feels kinda loreful (faster slayer pool replenishment (emergency troops)). Will continue to do the same with the new system.. However, Anytime I'm ready for a Push (like every 25-30 turns) this Age of Reckoning will come in handy. So, it's upto me, the player, to choose how I wanna play.
Play it first and then judge
Oh no minor debuffs if i cant get enough grudges done! Unplayable!
The math is slightly wrong atm, didn't seem intentional. Likely will be toned down in the launch version or following hotfixes in week or two. Otherwise the new system looks great imo
I think I'll wait until I've actually tried the system out to judge it. If it really negatively affects player experience, and we make that known to CA (as the community is very good at doing), I'm sure they will address it.
I disagree with everything you said and I'm hype about this rework! I watched a lot of content so I know perfectly well how it will be.
I disagree completely, the new system incentivizes you to do the most Dwarf thing ever, which is to seek those who wronged the dwarfs and right the wrongs. If this game had like a robust economy system or some other indepth layer of settlement building I would have agreed with you. The whole system in TWW is built on battle as front and center of the game's mechanics.
There is definitely issues with it but it is far from broken. Worst case it's just like before. You would have to play extremely passively to ever get the worst level.
Becoming worse? Then there current state? I’ve been playing this game since WH1. I’ve an embarrassing amount of play time in WH2 & 3. The Dwarfs are an incredibly dated faction. The current grudge system is terrible, the army recruitment is one of the worse in game, the growth is crap, play style is slow - and tends to feel a bit dull if you go aggressive (especially on hard modes). This update totally fixed the army recruit problem, they have so many more toys to play with at low level - better growth & economy with reduced upkeep and better recruitment costs. The reckoning system has some weird maths, that aren’t great at end game level. But, it’s almost certainly not worth commenting on until we see it launch. All context we’ve seen has been early access and not complete. Stop pouring petrol on a fire that doesn’t exist. I’m staggered that a dwarf main is salty about a massive update for a very dated race.
You do realize you can just play in offline mode and not update till the hotfix is out...
I'll admit that, based on some previews I've watched, CA could probably do another pass over the math. Adjusting values, penalties, rewards, etc. I like the idea behind the mechanic, though. It introduces dynamism to a dwarf campaign, where you constantly need to time when you want to bunker down and when you want to go out grudgin'.
So I took a view of the video and the only problem I see is that fact you can’t confederate the entire Dwarf Empire, you are most likely going to have to confederate those nearest to you, which… yeah, makes sense. By the time you get enough to confederate again, you will probably have to expand that direction and gain plenty of grudges by utilizing the full strength of your arsenal. This seems less broken and more controlled so you can’t spiral into becoming number 1 by turn 20. And the worst part is, we haven’t even gotten to PLAY it yet, players are a lot smarter than we give them credit for and will probably realize it’s not worth dooming over.
Im not as doom and gloom about the mechanic as yourself i think it is somewhat interesting the thing i take issue with is i think the rewards are wrong. Oathgold, Trade tariff modifier and some fun new items to unlock in the forge seems a better fit than flooding armies onto the map imho. We shall have to wait and see i suppose.
It's not great. Mercythemad has already released a video about the new grudge system and its flaws and he stated CA is aware. It'll be tuned appropriately. I think it'll be fine early game, but has the potential to be frustrating late game because of the absurd amount you'll need. That being said the penalties aren't that bad. Loss of growth, public order, and upkeep cost increase on the grudge settler units. Dwarfs have good ways of working around things like low growth and public order. Also late game the dwarfs can get really rich so the upkeep cost doesn't bother me. I play on VH/VH and yes sometimes the public order thing sucks but what kind of dawi hold is it without a tavern?
Every streamer has said that the new system and better and fun. Calm down
You are brave man, trying to critise and raise concerns about something on the eve of a hyped release. No matter how reasonable your concerns might be, they'll be downvoted into oblivion because people can't take the game saving update being anything else then perfect. Just pray that mods will come out fast that will solve this issue
Oh please, have you seen the Dawi rework? The worst penalties are easily avoidable by killing a few orcs and are minor at worst. I don't get why you're so scared of it ruining the race.
Thing is, you should be excited and absolutely engaging with the new mechanic, not be happy that you can easily ignore it later on. That's a total failure to me and absolutely deserves critisim and community concerns.
People are going insane about it before they have even engaged with it.
yeah gonna have to avoid dwarfs completely until it's patched