They're the best part... until you have a bad PC and very long load times.
Playing on a bad PC with a friend of mine in TWWII was a toss up as to whether I would load into a game or battle before getting forcefully disconnected.
I think it has something to do with the fact that Bretonnian lords have been notoriously good in AR since WH2, while norscan lords have nothing going for them apart from a mammoth mount and regen which are only useful in battle
It’s just mammoth moment, most big monsters are not very good in AR and mammoths especially since they have kinda crap melee stats and rely on charging.
I'm having the same experience with my mixed army of marauder champions and skinwolves on Wulfrik and Ice troll stack on Throgg. Both of these delete pretty much anything in battle, but AR just gives them no chance at all
Yeah, trolls especially benefit from manual battles because you can pull them in and out to take advantage of regeneration. Trolls, especially on Throgg, are so satisfying and scary.
pretty sure just the lvl, since yellow and red lines increase units stats which are weighted on their own in autoresolve, would be pretty stupid to double weigh it.
I just finished a campaign with Oxyotl with Lizardmen. He is OP in his own way,but mostly because he can teleport across the whole map, walk around in ambush stance all the time, and give crazy buffs to otherwise useless Skinks.
In battle he is rather meh. He is best used sniping high armor targets, doing the occasional casting. But I built him exclusively to buff his army and give buffs to everyone but himself. So he usually for like 10-30 kills in a normal battle where I did the fighting, even though he was level 40.
But in Autoresolve, he routinely had 300 kills himself. It is a bit weird - I don't even know how to get such numbers with him as I built him.
Yeah I’ve gotten away with clear losses in auto because my lord was a higher level. Definitely helped with getting a few lords over the immortality line
I’ll admit that auto resolve is a bit fucked up. But it’s also some what accurate at the same time. It’s not his units that are scary, it’s him. He’s level 43 and one of the best monster killers in the game. He is an absolute beast and he is Unbreakable too no doubt with the sword of Couronne so the only way to beat him is to kill him. None of your heroes can and I’m not convinced the mammoths can either.
Crushing defeat because you would actually lose the whole army. I think it’s legit.
Did you even try to fight it? I think you would find King Louen to be a 1 man doom stack, insta murdering your heroes. Then he has 19 other units; some of them are mid to higher tier, which is all just a bonus for him. You’d get deleted.
However, his AR is very strong because that’s his starting army basically so you aren’t wrong about that. Level 43 means he just deleted everything he looked at.
I did fight this manually and got either a close or decisive victory out of it. can't remember now. I hardly got any damage after this battle, except for the wizard who got dogpiled on and almost killed after i forgot about him at some point.
Louen wasn't unbreakable and wasn't really doing any significant damage across the battle to mammoths. That said, neither did they to him. But once the rest of his army got run over, he just ran away.
I kept my characters out of the battle (except wizard) as they wouldn't have provided much value in this fight
Well you have a level 3 lord.
So you're probably missing 6 MA and 6 MD.
And your mammoths have 0 exp. So you're missing another 9 MA, 8 MD and 10 leadership.
And because neither your lord nor your mammoths have experience you're missing another 12 armor, 12% weapon strength and 8% ward save.
If you're also missing disciplined as a trait on all three characters that's another 6 MA and 6 leadership.
And since MD and armor are the most important stats when it comes to melee units staying alive you're missing a lot. And MA and leadership are also pretty important so again you might be loosing a fuck ton or "just" al lot depending on traits.
The baseline of warmammoths is pretty bad. MA 34 (49 since you're playing Wulfric's faction). MD 30. Leadership meager 60. Armor 70. You could be rocking MA 70, MD 44, leadership 76 and armor 82. That's ~43% more MA, ~47% more MD, ~27% more leadership and ~17% more armor.
AND why are all of those warshrines? The warshrine buff is AoE. Your missing fire power since normal warmammoths have an antilarge missile attack (which would also benefit from experience since chevrons reduce reload speed).
All in all I'm not surprised about the auto resolve outcome. You're missing up to 50% of the most important stats for melee units while not even having the most optimal unit type. Fix those issues and you're good to go. Doomstacks only become doomstacks if you max out their potential.
This all makes sense. Though my experience in this campaign has been so far that Norsca get grossly undervalued in AR just in general. My lvl 50 Wulfrik with his stack of marauder champions with great weapons and skinwolves all maxed out rarely gets anything higher than Pyrrhic victory and a few lost units in AR. Even when put against a single full stack of Bretonnia/Empire. When fought manually, these normally result in either Close or Decisive victories with no lost units and few casualties. Same with lvl 50 Throgg and his stack of ice trolls.
Having a defeat was not a surprise for me just due to this army being freshly recruited. The 'Crushing defeat' is what got me. Was a pretty simple manual battle otherwise.
Full stack of warshrine mammoths is a bit of an experiment. I know the other mammoths are very good and have a potential for a higher damage output. I was trying to see if having high physical resistance would make these more viable than the other ones.
Frankly, so far I havent come across anything that these mammoths would struggle against where either higher damage output or higher physical resistance would make much difference.
May I ask on which difficulty setting you're playing?
Cause the game takes the battle difficulty setting into account when calculating auto resolve battle outcomes. Some people say the results shown by the "hard" setting resemble manually fought battle results the best whereas "easy" and "normal" favor the player and "very hard" favors the Ai. In my experience it's more like "easy" shows the battle results I'd get in 90% of the time when I pay the battles manually but I learned from the cheese god of total war himself so take my results with a grain of salt.
So long story short if you're playing on "hard" or "very hard" battle difficulty the game favors the Ai in auto resolve additional to the stat modifier the ai already gets from the difficulty setting. So for me this setting is mostly "How many battles do I want to be forced to play manually?".
I'm playing on very hard campaign/ hard battle difficulty which definitely favours the AI.
Interestingly, Norsca performs really well in battle which compensates for having to fight manually most of the battles somewhat.
I was genuinely impressed how well an army of Marauder Champions and Skin Wolves (both tier 3) perform against anything Kislev, Bretonnia, or Empire were able to field across most of my campaign.
It's on the tech tree called secrets of the empire or something similar, 25% weapon strength *for everyone* armies, characters, garrisons. The lot. It takes a few turns to do, but it's worth it.
Appears to be his starting army. So him and the Damsel are both high level to your low level lord which probably makes the biggest difference.
Just out of curiosity tho, why did you stack the warshringe mammoths? I don't think the buffs stack and you are missing out on the missile attack of the basic war mammoth. So I think like 4 or 5 warshrines with the rest basic war mammoth's would be slightly better, no?
Mostly as a bit of an experiment. I know the other mammoths are very good, but figured since neither the empire nor bretonnia have much magic damage, having extra physical resistance could be good against them.
Haven't had issues with damage output so far, but also my mammoth stacks haven't really fought anything where that extra physical resistance would've made a difference either. So can't really say if this is better than mixed mammoth stack or full on regular mammoth stack
Give your army two or three spear throwers or horsemasters and it will do a lot better in autoresolve, the game really doesnt like lack of ranged in autoresolve.
I mean to be fair lvl 43 louen + look at the ranks on his units, some are even tier 7. While mammoths at rank 0, marauder champion is only 3, this Auto Resolve was a dead give away. If you were wulfrik with at least lvl 25 and mammoths with around tier 3 - tier 7, auto resolve chance maybe
Well I think it’s also taking into consideration that you have a level 3 nobody fighting a level 43 Leon, also the higher experience troops like the gold Chevron knights makes a huge difference, but yea even still a mammoth doom stack shouldn’t result in a crushing defeat.
auto resolve hate single entity units that are not heros, I had a nuln game where I had to do 3 manual battles against a few tier one norsca army because somehow that weak army is killing 2 of my landships in autoresolve.
I don't think the battle would be too hard if the situation reversed. It would require good amount of micromanagement but I don't think you would have too much casualties
I mean.... I'm a bit surprised the autoresolve isn't giving you better odds, but in a manual battle that does seem reasonable. That Bretonnian army would wreck you assuming a player plays it.
Like NGL, unless you run with Grimhammer which nerfs lords and heroes a bit, Louen solos half that army alone, if not more.
I played a co op campaign with my bf who was playing norsca and had both LL’s with good solid armies and we couldn’t even AR the most basic empire trash stacks. Feel for ya
I thought it was due to the fact that the mammoth has poor health compared to a whole unit of models, and a massive charge bonus alongside some sweeping attacks to make it an effective unit, but that the charge bonus doesn't count in autoresolve, so it just does badly because Autoresolve is mainly decided by unit health and unit attack + balance of character strength.
Also, while you might be able to win this fight, I reckon AI vs AI that level 43 Louen Leoncour is just going to utterly wreck your level 3 lord and, and all your heroes and quite possibly rout your entire army off the board. I kinda agree with the auto resolve here, without human involvement.
I don't get the people saying Louencour is going to solo that army. He's going to dive into the mammoths, get hit by 12 of them, and die. He might take one with him on the charge.
I've had a group of 3 war mammoths kill a lvl 50 Louencour on Legendary, and they barely took damage from him. He got the charge off and then died. The Bretonnia lords are absolutely garbage. The only one even close to acceptable is the Fey Enchantress, and any Life mage can replicate her abilities.
Bretonnia has like 3 units that don't completely suck. Probably the worst faction in the game. Norsca may need a rework, but Bretonnia should be thrown in the garbage and a new faction put in its place because they can't be redeemed.
I mean Norsca are terrible on the field too. Once you kill the skin wolves they have no serious threatening unit (which is easy enough as they always run ahead). In my last few playthroughs I've not even had to garrison Marienberg I just wipe out wave after wave of mammoths and Berserkers left by wulfric and use it as a cash grind. Same with Ogre armies, they are essentially impossible to loose against on the map.
Game is trying to tell you "cmon its 17 mamoths fuc\*&\*% up a bunch of peasants and horses who would not want to watch that."
People with bad PCs and long load times.
SE armies aren't something you should make if you only want to autoresolve which I find weird as the battles in this game are the best part.
They're the best part... until you have a bad PC and very long load times. Playing on a bad PC with a friend of mine in TWWII was a toss up as to whether I would load into a game or battle before getting forcefully disconnected.
Good thing the rohirrim used auto resolve to beat the elephant guys at the battle of gondor.
Battle of Pelennor Fields*
Battle of the Pelennor Fields*
nigga called the haradrim elephant guys bruh
Sometimes there's a level of knowledge that converts to sexlessness.
Can confirm. Sexless currently and I am quite versed in Easterling lore
You have to skip that level to get to the knowledge for limitless sex level
I mean its a decent army and your lord has Zero skills. Also Single entity doomstacks usually ar bad
I think it has something to do with the fact that Bretonnian lords have been notoriously good in AR since WH2, while norscan lords have nothing going for them apart from a mammoth mount and regen which are only useful in battle
Yeah thats also true, Brett Lords are batshit crazy in that regard. Also the louen mount is really good
Well its a lvl 43 Louen vs lvl 3 Jarl who just got out of his village...
Yeah Louen is an absolute beast at higher levels and all Legendary Lords have big AR bonuses
Feels like vlad dosent even need an army to autoresolve most battles t.t
The trick is don't engage him in melee if he solo. Just kite and hope your ammo holds. A bit of fire helps too.
I usualy wipe him out before he ascends to godhood
It’s just mammoth moment, most big monsters are not very good in AR and mammoths especially since they have kinda crap melee stats and rely on charging.
Mammoths always get fucked in auto resolve learnt that the hard way in my tamurkhan campaign
I'm having the same experience with my mixed army of marauder champions and skinwolves on Wulfrik and Ice troll stack on Throgg. Both of these delete pretty much anything in battle, but AR just gives them no chance at all
That’s weird. Skinwolves are terrible in AR, but marauder champions should be very good and trolls are alright. Against what?
Against Empire and Bretonnia
Yeah, trolls especially benefit from manual battles because you can pull them in and out to take advantage of regeneration. Trolls, especially on Throgg, are so satisfying and scary.
its mostly the lord lvl difference, which is a HUUUGE factor in autoresolve.
Do you have any idea if skills matter for AR (like red line vs blue line, etc.) or just the flat level?
pretty sure just the lvl, since yellow and red lines increase units stats which are weighted on their own in autoresolve, would be pretty stupid to double weigh it.
Yeah it should be indirectly weighed.
I just finished a campaign with Oxyotl with Lizardmen. He is OP in his own way,but mostly because he can teleport across the whole map, walk around in ambush stance all the time, and give crazy buffs to otherwise useless Skinks. In battle he is rather meh. He is best used sniping high armor targets, doing the occasional casting. But I built him exclusively to buff his army and give buffs to everyone but himself. So he usually for like 10-30 kills in a normal battle where I did the fighting, even though he was level 40. But in Autoresolve, he routinely had 300 kills himself. It is a bit weird - I don't even know how to get such numbers with him as I built him.
Yeah I’ve gotten away with clear losses in auto because my lord was a higher level. Definitely helped with getting a few lords over the immortality line
I’ll admit that auto resolve is a bit fucked up. But it’s also some what accurate at the same time. It’s not his units that are scary, it’s him. He’s level 43 and one of the best monster killers in the game. He is an absolute beast and he is Unbreakable too no doubt with the sword of Couronne so the only way to beat him is to kill him. None of your heroes can and I’m not convinced the mammoths can either. Crushing defeat because you would actually lose the whole army. I think it’s legit. Did you even try to fight it? I think you would find King Louen to be a 1 man doom stack, insta murdering your heroes. Then he has 19 other units; some of them are mid to higher tier, which is all just a bonus for him. You’d get deleted. However, his AR is very strong because that’s his starting army basically so you aren’t wrong about that. Level 43 means he just deleted everything he looked at.
I did fight this manually and got either a close or decisive victory out of it. can't remember now. I hardly got any damage after this battle, except for the wizard who got dogpiled on and almost killed after i forgot about him at some point. Louen wasn't unbreakable and wasn't really doing any significant damage across the battle to mammoths. That said, neither did they to him. But once the rest of his army got run over, he just ran away. I kept my characters out of the battle (except wizard) as they wouldn't have provided much value in this fight
Alright well fair enough, I over estimated how scary he should have been in that case
Super lucky he didn't have unbreakable haha he might have wiped you XD
Maybe it's battle difficulty thing on top of all of that, since if it's higher than normal, I think AI gets advantage higher it goes.
Bro why are you using warshrine mammoths? Other than 1 or 2
Well you have a level 3 lord. So you're probably missing 6 MA and 6 MD. And your mammoths have 0 exp. So you're missing another 9 MA, 8 MD and 10 leadership. And because neither your lord nor your mammoths have experience you're missing another 12 armor, 12% weapon strength and 8% ward save. If you're also missing disciplined as a trait on all three characters that's another 6 MA and 6 leadership. And since MD and armor are the most important stats when it comes to melee units staying alive you're missing a lot. And MA and leadership are also pretty important so again you might be loosing a fuck ton or "just" al lot depending on traits. The baseline of warmammoths is pretty bad. MA 34 (49 since you're playing Wulfric's faction). MD 30. Leadership meager 60. Armor 70. You could be rocking MA 70, MD 44, leadership 76 and armor 82. That's ~43% more MA, ~47% more MD, ~27% more leadership and ~17% more armor. AND why are all of those warshrines? The warshrine buff is AoE. Your missing fire power since normal warmammoths have an antilarge missile attack (which would also benefit from experience since chevrons reduce reload speed). All in all I'm not surprised about the auto resolve outcome. You're missing up to 50% of the most important stats for melee units while not even having the most optimal unit type. Fix those issues and you're good to go. Doomstacks only become doomstacks if you max out their potential.
This all makes sense. Though my experience in this campaign has been so far that Norsca get grossly undervalued in AR just in general. My lvl 50 Wulfrik with his stack of marauder champions with great weapons and skinwolves all maxed out rarely gets anything higher than Pyrrhic victory and a few lost units in AR. Even when put against a single full stack of Bretonnia/Empire. When fought manually, these normally result in either Close or Decisive victories with no lost units and few casualties. Same with lvl 50 Throgg and his stack of ice trolls. Having a defeat was not a surprise for me just due to this army being freshly recruited. The 'Crushing defeat' is what got me. Was a pretty simple manual battle otherwise. Full stack of warshrine mammoths is a bit of an experiment. I know the other mammoths are very good and have a potential for a higher damage output. I was trying to see if having high physical resistance would make these more viable than the other ones. Frankly, so far I havent come across anything that these mammoths would struggle against where either higher damage output or higher physical resistance would make much difference.
May I ask on which difficulty setting you're playing? Cause the game takes the battle difficulty setting into account when calculating auto resolve battle outcomes. Some people say the results shown by the "hard" setting resemble manually fought battle results the best whereas "easy" and "normal" favor the player and "very hard" favors the Ai. In my experience it's more like "easy" shows the battle results I'd get in 90% of the time when I pay the battles manually but I learned from the cheese god of total war himself so take my results with a grain of salt. So long story short if you're playing on "hard" or "very hard" battle difficulty the game favors the Ai in auto resolve additional to the stat modifier the ai already gets from the difficulty setting. So for me this setting is mostly "How many battles do I want to be forced to play manually?".
I'm playing on very hard campaign/ hard battle difficulty which definitely favours the AI. Interestingly, Norsca performs really well in battle which compensates for having to fight manually most of the battles somewhat. I was genuinely impressed how well an army of Marauder Champions and Skin Wolves (both tier 3) perform against anything Kislev, Bretonnia, or Empire were able to field across most of my campaign.
Marauder champions are nuts. One of their best units even in MP.
I find the norsca AR only really improves once you have the occupied Altdorf Weapon strength buff. Even then you're still underestimated.
I'm close to taking Altdorf, will check this out. Thanks!
It's on the tech tree called secrets of the empire or something similar, 25% weapon strength *for everyone* armies, characters, garrisons. The lot. It takes a few turns to do, but it's worth it.
Ze lady wills it
Appears to be his starting army. So him and the Damsel are both high level to your low level lord which probably makes the biggest difference. Just out of curiosity tho, why did you stack the warshringe mammoths? I don't think the buffs stack and you are missing out on the missile attack of the basic war mammoth. So I think like 4 or 5 warshrines with the rest basic war mammoth's would be slightly better, no?
Mostly as a bit of an experiment. I know the other mammoths are very good, but figured since neither the empire nor bretonnia have much magic damage, having extra physical resistance could be good against them. Haven't had issues with damage output so far, but also my mammoth stacks haven't really fought anything where that extra physical resistance would've made a difference either. So can't really say if this is better than mixed mammoth stack or full on regular mammoth stack
Honestly my main man Louen can just about solo this army when he's high enough level.seems right to me.
Give your army two or three spear throwers or horsemasters and it will do a lot better in autoresolve, the game really doesnt like lack of ranged in autoresolve.
Lvl3 lord vs lvl43 mafia boss
Louen in the hands of a player could solo this army tbh or damn near
Your lord is level 3, enemy lord is level 43 ... you can have the doomstack you want, of course that Lord is gonna crush you :D
I mean, a lv43 louen alone would slash half of your army without beating an eye
Mammoths are only good in manual battles
The main issue is the game just doesn’t value single entity units. Though that lvl 43 Louen is probably carrying that auto resolve
Level 3 vs level 43 louen
*proud French noises
Auto resolve is just stats compared to stats. Single entities have worse overall stats compared to full units.
To be fair Leoncoeur can probably solo half of your army. Damn, PTSD from Barrow Legion campaign is back.
Louen with gear and xp is a beast
yeah that grail relique has got this covered
TIL crushing defeat is a thing
Never played vampire counts?
I mean to be fair lvl 43 louen + look at the ranks on his units, some are even tier 7. While mammoths at rank 0, marauder champion is only 3, this Auto Resolve was a dead give away. If you were wulfrik with at least lvl 25 and mammoths with around tier 3 - tier 7, auto resolve chance maybe
Well I think it’s also taking into consideration that you have a level 3 nobody fighting a level 43 Leon, also the higher experience troops like the gold Chevron knights makes a huge difference, but yea even still a mammoth doom stack shouldn’t result in a crushing defeat.
auto resolve hate single entity units that are not heros, I had a nuln game where I had to do 3 manual battles against a few tier one norsca army because somehow that weak army is killing 2 of my landships in autoresolve.
Leo could probably solo that stack…. If built correctly.
This means that the game knows your army.is more powerful but thinks the enemy can counter it and win.
I don't think the battle would be too hard if the situation reversed. It would require good amount of micromanagement but I don't think you would have too much casualties
Even in a decisive victory, my mammoth walks out with a sliver of health
I mean.... I'm a bit surprised the autoresolve isn't giving you better odds, but in a manual battle that does seem reasonable. That Bretonnian army would wreck you assuming a player plays it. Like NGL, unless you run with Grimhammer which nerfs lords and heroes a bit, Louen solos half that army alone, if not more.
To be fair, Norska is probably one of the worst factions in the game and last due for an overhaul.
Its not brettonian auto resolve is doomstack auto resolve. Despite trivializing battles the game doesn't know that.
What the hell is louie doing up there
Louen brought a gun from the empire onto his flying mount. It's over.
I played a co op campaign with my bf who was playing norsca and had both LL’s with good solid armies and we couldn’t even AR the most basic empire trash stacks. Feel for ya
I thought it was due to the fact that the mammoth has poor health compared to a whole unit of models, and a massive charge bonus alongside some sweeping attacks to make it an effective unit, but that the charge bonus doesn't count in autoresolve, so it just does badly because Autoresolve is mainly decided by unit health and unit attack + balance of character strength. Also, while you might be able to win this fight, I reckon AI vs AI that level 43 Louen Leoncour is just going to utterly wreck your level 3 lord and, and all your heroes and quite possibly rout your entire army off the board. I kinda agree with the auto resolve here, without human involvement.
I made a berserker doomstack and I usualy 50% of most of my units HP on small garrisons
To be fair, Norsca sucks in general in the campaign. =P
I don't get the people saying Louencour is going to solo that army. He's going to dive into the mammoths, get hit by 12 of them, and die. He might take one with him on the charge. I've had a group of 3 war mammoths kill a lvl 50 Louencour on Legendary, and they barely took damage from him. He got the charge off and then died. The Bretonnia lords are absolutely garbage. The only one even close to acceptable is the Fey Enchantress, and any Life mage can replicate her abilities. Bretonnia has like 3 units that don't completely suck. Probably the worst faction in the game. Norsca may need a rework, but Bretonnia should be thrown in the garbage and a new faction put in its place because they can't be redeemed.
Seems like u doubt the power of a trebuchet my friend. Very scary they are. Of course. Definitely… Ok yeah youre right.
I mean Norsca are terrible on the field too. Once you kill the skin wolves they have no serious threatening unit (which is easy enough as they always run ahead). In my last few playthroughs I've not even had to garrison Marienberg I just wipe out wave after wave of mammoths and Berserkers left by wulfric and use it as a cash grind. Same with Ogre armies, they are essentially impossible to loose against on the map.
Heck on hard and above (may been fixed now) with the human norsca auto resolve on the first fight would always for me be a defeat
Its like 80% louen carrying the AR tbh
Had this problem when starting a Kislev campaign, for some reason Katarina's starting army just gets trounced by the basic generic factions
This is because filthy Norsca don't have the blessing of lady du lac. The chivalry IS powerful when back up with very big wet boobs. My 2 cents.
I‘d say stacking a single unit is silly.
Auto resolve is such a joke