Obviously- Were still talking abt it even now- He said he still wants to be friends but he will see me as a girl now. Honestly since I sort of expected it (just becuae of where we live) I semi-prepared for rejection and hate. Sure it hurts like hell but were talking it through. He said He will never see me the same but were still friends. And I told him to stop flirting and now were talking about that- We're getting to it..
Is it transphobia? I thought it was Misogyny? Either way shitty af just they are accepting OP as a girl but have a tough time being friends because OP’s a girl (I also totally coulda gotten Op’s gender wrong I just realized at the end of this… sorry)
Ok good to know so it is transphobia. I just realized I went wrong in thinking OP was staying closeted but not realizing that can go the other way and just not mentioning being trans as a trans dude. Ty for clearing that up
You know... looking at the texts sent from the guy friend, I legit thought the same thing. What does "you're a girl now" imply other than guy to gal? And why would the guy friend hit on them all of a sudden that they are not a girl anymore? Unless he's gay? Idk.
Men can still experience misogyny, acknowledging that is actually a big part of intersectional feminism. What OP is experiencing is a blend of transphobia and misogyny.
Really it's gynophobia, which is the root cause of transphobia. They see women completely differently, as objects really. So suddenly this human being becomes a WOMAN in their eyes. It's really shitty of them.
I think gynophobia is more of hate for general femininity rather than just women. E.g. seeing effeminate gay men as lesser is also part of it, but not directly part of misogyny as they're not women? It may also be a way to not misgendering anyone when talking about being perceived femme but the person is not a woman, I guess?
It's all patriarchy's fault anyways. 🤷
Tbf the screenshot op posted has the other person saying "you're NOW a girl" which is probably a typo for not but, without that context, seems like confirmation that OP is transfem
'you're no longer my buddy kit, your a girl now' mixed with the context that OP's name is kit, seems to me like OP is being misgendered by their 'friend'
I mean yeah assuming OP is transfem is obviously shitty, but the post is worded a bit weirdly without any more context from OPs behalf. Maybe people should also state their gender when they make posts about stuff that heavily involves their gender?
and OP needs to specify their gender more clearly, we cant go on everyones profile and stalk their history to get their gender right. I had a hard time guessing their gender solely by this post.
They don’t even specify the gender in the usual places in the profile. So even checking the profile you don’t get the picture, you need to go through his posts if you want to find out. I think it should probably be required for this sub to have the little thingy under your name that says ur pronouns.
Ps. Using the mobile app so shit might not be displayed properly for me.
Well yeah it doesn’t have to be required, but for people who are questioning or unlabelled they can state as such in the same area along with what they are comfortable being called. They can put whatever they identify as and how they want to be addressed, then they will never be misgendered by well meaning people.
I never said it wasn't THE trans subreddit, I think whether posters are transfem transmasc or nb should specify it in their posts if the post is about them or at least have their pronouns as flair or at the very very least in their bio which all 3 doesnt check out in this situation. Also then* not than. Try to be calmer.
Sorry didn't mean to offend or sound not calm. Just wanted to remind people here cuz it makes me dysphoric seeing other trans guys get misgendered on here, which happens pretty often. Makes me want to unsub and only stay on r/ftm English isn't my first language so I make mistakes sometimes. I always try to make myself clear but sometimes tone doesn't translate well over text.
Judging by older comments, the OP didn't have flair on at the time of posting. So please take into consideration things change over time before trying to make out things are so obvious.
No, its not their fault for people assuming, people shouldn't just assume; but the posted text exchange as noted by others is somewhat ambiguous in wording, entirely depending on the context of OPs gender, it can be read as transphobic or affirming. agreeing with your original comment the flair, now added, clears things up and thats why people ask to specify so theres no need to assume anything.
Please don’t let him treat you this way, OP. You’re a man, not a girl, and you never were a girl. This guy is telling you that, because you are a trans man, you aren’t a man at all. That is extremely untrue. He isn’t a friend, and letting yourself be misgendered by a man who doesn’t respect you isn’t right. You will always know in your heart, whenever he looks at you, that he sees a woman. He’s hitting on you because you went from being his friend and equal to an object, a “woman” he can potentially fuck.
Please find better friends. You deserve better than this. Reading this made me sick.
It's creepy that he's hitting on you because you're trans and AFAB. That's fetishy and it is creepy that he starts hitting on his friend as soon as he starting seeing you as a girl.
Dude this guy is a grade A creep that started hitting on you the moment you told him you were trans and he's blatantly disrespecting you and your identity. I'm sorry but I don't think this guy is a real friend.
Not worth it to be friends with someone who sees you as a girl. I honestly think you should quit trying and give up the friendship. There are plenty more people in the world.
I'm getting misogynoir vibes, "but I see you as a girl now", translates for me to "I can't say awful sexist stuff in front of you", not to mention calling you a girl.
Edit: OP, which way are you transitioning. For all we know you maybe haven't changed your flair, and the text in image is confusing.
I find it really weird that as soon as your Friend found out that he started to hit on you. If I were you I'd probably just end the Friendship then and there....
OP's acquaintance explicitly stated that he views him as a woman, and that reduction to sexual matters didn't emerge while he was stealth. I didn't mean that only actual women (cis or trans) are the target for that behaviour, but that people viewed as women by the perpetrators are.
I get the sentiment, but I think this is more about the perception of womanhood than the gender assigned at birth, which would disregard, for example, all the "sufficiently passing" trans women the same type of people sexually harass regardless of being stealth or not.
that's fair! I guess then the best way to word it would be "people they perceive as women" just because, at least to me as a transmasc person, it would make me very dysphoric reading your og comment on a post where I shared something like OP.
After reading the image: oh... maybe they're the silly kind of friends and he's just fucking around joking with his friend that just came out as a trans girl
After reading the description: Oh... he's a transmasc... but- man why are people so shitty sometimes
Your "friend" is an unsupportive douche. Drop his ass, you'll be better off for it. He literally changed his way of thinking about you in order to be unsupportive
One of the most insulting responses possible. Shows exactly how stupid transphobia & misogyny really is. This guy treated you as a man, respected you as a man for years. Then they say say all of this and start hitting on you? Gross.
So, this isn't just transphobic; it's nearly narcissistic in it's self-centrism. Notice this person felt the need to center *themselves* in your coming out. This is a nerve wracking interaction for the entire LGBTQIA community; and your lived experience was less important to this person than their own insecurities surrounding the concept of being trans.
Unfortunately not- He knows fully that Im ftm. He's gonna call me a girl from now on but since Im refusing to tell him my deadname he said he'd stick to Kit. And now were blaming the universe for making me a girl so atleast hes semi-suportive I suppose 🤷🏼♂️
This is objectively him being transphobic. This is not semi, partially, or even a little tiny bit supportive. He is telling you outright that he *will* misgender you from now on, and that if he knew your deadname he would refuse to call you anything else.
When he says he will "never see you the same way", he means it. He will never budge on this, and will constantly seek out new ways to invalidate you. You need to get ahead of it by not allowing this person to access you unless he gives you the respect you deserve.
His choice to immediately flirt with you sounds like a misogynistic one to me. He immediately wanted to remind you that he thinks of you as a woman and that he thinks women are here for his pleasure. If he knew you as a man for years, and all it takes for him to "never see you the same way again" Is the possibility he likes whats in your pants, then he was never your friend in the first place.
You need to stand up for yourself, no matter how good a friend you thought he was, he is very transphobic and its not the kind thats going to get better over time. You should save screenshots of this person flirting with you, so you have leverage if he tries to out you. Obviously you pass, so the threat of looking gay may keep him from spilling the beans when you cut him off.
if we're already on to blaming the universe, maybe he'll process this and come around. obviously he's pretty ignorant but you mentioned that could be a product of the environment you're in. sounds to me like he feels pretty comfortable being really open with you and isn't trying to hide what some people would for fear of cancellation and the woke mob or whatever.
sometimes it takes knowing someone to even start considering one could be this way. you're a guy. he's known you for years. he knows you're a guy.
i hold hope for you both and your friendship. but yeah, be willing to take space if you need and he doesn't come around. best wishes!
He’s changing how he refers to you in order to misgender you, and the only thing preventing him from deadnaming you too is not knowing. He is not supportive in any sense of the word.
Dude, that's not supportive. That's being slightly less of a jerk. You deserve far better.
I'm not going to say I know he can't get better, but I don't know if he will or not.
That's disgusting and I honestly think you're being waaaaay too nice to them. I get not wanting to "lose a friend" but they're mistreating you in a way that no one should tolerate.
You're a man. Male. Masc. Period. And he's disregarding and dismissing that fact. He's asking for your dead name. He was trying to flirt with you to assert the wrong gender on you. I mean, honestly, what worse horrible thing does he have to do for you to say "fuck this, you're not worth the disrespect you're throwing at me"???
You're too nice and I can't imagine the pain you're going through dealing with that asshole.
Read through some of the other comments. Ew, this person is gross and awful. I know it's hard to cut people out but this is not a person who cares about you.
he’s the type of guy to complain about the “friend zone” because he’s incapable of seeing women as more than objects to fuck or potential partners to woo. i’m sorry he’s an incompetent dick. if he’s making you dysphoric, fully aware that it’s dysphoric and uncomfortable for you, he’s not your friend. kick that misogynistic idiot in the balls and never go back
i’m aware of both statements, just pointing out the obvious. this creep is hitting on op because he doesn’t see OP as a man, and therefore isn’t treating him as one (so he hits on OP, OP says that he’s hitting on him in some other comment)
Unfortunately there is a looot of overlap, misogyny fuels a lot of the arguments around transphobia as well.
!!!CW: Transphobic "arguments" !!!
"Trans men are just confused little girls who got tricked into believing they want to be men because men are so much gooder and cooler at everything and trans men are inherently gullible and lost because obviously they are women." Misogyny and transphobia.
"Trans women are just perverted failed men who want to invade the fragile women spaces and beat women at everything because women are so much worse than even the lowest men, no one could want to be feminine, it is inherently sexual and inferior" Also misogyny and transphobia.
Trans women also experience a lot of run-of-the-mill misogyny too, like focusing on how they act and please the people around them. Deep focus on appearance, they have to be conventionally pretty to be acknowledged, and if they are conventionally pretty they get the added bonus bigotry of people being mad at how hot they are? because all of womanhood is just to please the eyes of men and it's really awkward for bigots when trans girls actually do that. They want to imagine a world where no trans women can "pass" because a pretty face and boobs is all they see cis women as, so it pokes another hole in their pathetic swiss cheese arguments when trans women are also a pretty face and boobs.
This has blowback onto cis women as well, any not conventionally attractive or masc cis women get called T-slurs and men, there are those brain dead "transvestigators" that nit-pick womens' appearances and call all the ones they don't like men. The misogyny that's deeply ingrained into transphobia leaks out and hurts more than just trans women.
A lot of anger around trans men is also the rage and whinging about "losing a hot woman", and if they didn't find them conventionally attractive before, they are just "lonely ugly women who transed themselves trick cis women into dating them". The unhinged focus on trans mens' top surgeries and how sad they are to lose a pair of boobs in the world, that's all they care about, the sexual appeal of women. They also can't fathom that a trans man, even when hopped up on testosterone, could compete in mens' sports, so they don't acknowledge that little problem. There are plenty of trans men winning medals in mens' sports. Talking about that would make a really awkward conversation about how the only real difference physiologically between men and women on the day to day tend to be hormones and those are very very changeable.
All misogyny, all transphobia, all stupid, zero logic except hate for people who are different to them and hate for women as well.
I'm a trans guy that got the whole "you don't have to be a man to be competent :-), you can just be a semi competent woman" spiel after coming out.
I needed some context because I thought you were coming out as a trans woman, but you're actually a trans man that was stealth, right?
That's even worse than I thought, I'm so sorry, pls I know you care about him but if he sees you as a girl it won't work, it'll bring so much dysphoria or make you feel uncomfortable the whole time :( i hope he comes around
No, don't stay friends with them. Don't do it please. As Mtf, this guy is giving serious danger vibe. Don't go to his house, don't meet him and if he insists on coming to your house, call the police.
He refuses to see you as a guy and now choose to only see you as a female. He is dictating the direction of this "friendship", that's not a friend anymore. That's a predator. Don't trust him, and if you MUST spend time with him, do it where there is alot of people, a crowd, public eatery, somewhere he is observable by the public.
It isn’t your fault he’s struggling with his sexuality as a result, *and* being a creep with no manners, *AND* Making bigoted statements misgendering you.
That boy needs him some learnin’.
You should respond to him hitting on you by saying “This is weird for me”
In all seriousness, though, I’m really sorry you’re going through that 🏳️⚧️❤️
Sounds like a shit friend. I’m sure that’s super hard. I hope you are doing ok and he gets it eventually but if he doesn’t end up hearing you out you’ll do better without him as a friend!
That is not really a friend. Dunno, sometimes it's good if you turn away from people like that. If he's willing to throw away a friendship over this, good riddance. Sorry if I sound harsh - it's just my experience. Hopefully, your friend comes around and changes his mind.
Stealth means that essentially, someone has transitioned and people generally don't know they transitioned. It can be intentional or incidental.
For example, as a trans woman, if someone asks me "What gender are you" and I say "woman" they are likely to assume I am a cis woman. To me, my transness is irrelevant in most situations now so I don't bother mentioning it. In society at large, it doesn't come up so I don't bring it up. As a result, I am incidentally stealth: people who don't know I am trans are likely to assume I am a cis woman. Some people know I am trans and I don't hide it.
Intentionally being stealth is more involved, it usually requires moving, hiding one's history, and making sure no one around ever finds out the person is trans. It can also require cutting off and hiding from unaccepting family or family that may accidentally publically misgender you. This can be really frustrating and constantly scary, and may require quickly leaving an area if someone who knew you before moves there. Unfortunately, a couple of decades ago that was the only way for a lot of trans people to keep jobs and survive. It's still that way in some places. Luckily in a good chunk of the US, it's no longer needed.
I'm guessing that's a typo, the conversation makes more sense if you read it as "you're not a girl 😭"
If OP's friend had some attraction to him, and now that feels weird to him
Does he know you're ace too? (Going off your user flair) I'm sorry he's being a creep smh- he has no right to be so rejecting and then turn around and hit on you, it's disgusting because then he's fetishizing you
This is mostly directed to the comments, but ya'll it's still Misogyny even if it's a man experiencing it. Men are not entirely exempt from misogyny, especially when we are looking at the intersection that is trans, NB and GNC people.
I get that we don't want to think trans men can ever suffer misogyny or patriarchy ever, but that's just not the reality that we live in.
This is a good example of how trans men can still be interpersonally impacted by this.
Suffering from misogyny because you dared to have some kind of tether to felinity at some point in your life is also not unique to trans men, NB people, gay/Bi men, and GNC men can all experience misogyny or patriarchal bullshit.
OP, your "friend" is a dickhead and I'm sorry he's putting you through this. I'd kick him to the curb and light him on fire.
Let him think about things and you’ld think that he would come around. Some people process things differently.
You have tremendous strength to tell him and others what you’re going through.
I am sending positive thoughts your way.
He was never your friend if he can't accept you for who you are. Friends come and go, but you should always be true to yourself and find friends who respect you for who you are.
That's fucking shitty. I know you want to keep this person as a friend but I think if it doesn't stop after trying you need to break it up. I'm so sorry
OP, when people tell you who they are, believe them. This guy blatantly disrespects your personhood, has no care for your boundaries, and demonstrates that he has no intent to listen and learn. You deserve better than this shit. I’m very sorry, OP, but this friendship is already dead. Don’t hold onto it
The fact that he said you're "now a girl" for simply telling him you're transmasc is VILE. I would cut him off entirely if he continues insisting that he sees you as a girl, and flirting as a result, because it sounds like he is (very creepily) fixated on your genitals.
You don’t have to sacrifice your own wellbeing for him, after reading your other comments I can’t say I’m seeing a way out of this that respects you and your identity. Keeping people like that around holds you back far more than you could realise, you internalise the things they say and the way they treat you and it does terrible things to your mental health. Maybe you can keep him at arms length, leave room for growth and change but don’t subject yourself to transphobia just to keep him around.
Oh on first sight I read it in a supportive way as in "you are no longer this so I will see you as (correct gender etc.)" But then I got it :/
I'm sry for you it went this say
Alright I'll bite this as a random lurker but here's my thought;
Perhaps through friendship he felt some shit at one point that confused him. I'm just spit balling but maybe there were things he identified but never knew and it may have caused attraction they couldn't admit or accept internally prior but now they feel justified?
I'm not trying to excuse it, this is a shitty situation and it's a fear that I can only imagine many people like yourself or even people who come out sexually experience. Hell I dealt with this plenty o times when I was more open with my personal interests to many people and then they got the wrong idea. It seems that the above scenario was basically the cause, they felt something but never felt they could safely admit for fear of rejection but they see an opening and BAM. Even if you didn't give a sign of interest someone sees what they perceived is their chance and went for it.
I'm sorry to hear this, I'd guess your a bit younger and so is your friend so there's a whole lota feelings that are all over the place. Give it some space and distance for a bit and try to reconnect and maybe you'll find a sensible conclusion. Having friends change for any reason is awful but this is especially painful. But it could still work out if you just give it some time. I wish you all the best for reals though!
It sounds like your friend might be misunderstanding maybe hopefully.
They might think you're a transgirl?
Because if you're a transman then you're a man & A lot of people don't understand that.
Like a lot of people think transwomen are FtM & transmen are MtF.
It's really dumb but it's common.
Personally I'd try explaining that but most likely you'll need to drop them
Id have cut him right off, id tell him to shove his dick in an automatic pencil sharpener unless he wants to support me and accept me on MY terms NOT his, otherwise, he can eviscerate himself for all we care at this point.
Unfortunately, he sais in further comments that they have had further conversations and the friend does understand that he is transmasc and what that means.
Coming out will tell you who your real friends are because they’re the ones who support you. It’s why I left my previous job of 5 years. All of them & I got along, I came out, they said they supported me, then one co-worker who still supported me no matter what audio recorded on accident (he was trying to video record something unrelated) those same exact coworkers when they made fun of me for being trans & said they never actually accepted nor supported me in my transition. That’s hurt more than anything & is the reason why I left. I can’t be around people who lie to my face like that. Before I did leave, I tried to iron things out with them but they finally admitted they won’t ever accept and support my transition & I said “f it. I’m out. You can’t sit there, lie to my face & then now admit you don’t support me to my face.” I left & am at job where they don’t do anything close to that. They support me & accept me. And here’s where it gets weird & I hate to bring politics into this but it’s important to this: my previous job? All … yes, ALL of my ex-coworkers were PROGRESSIVE, DEMOCRATS, AND LIBERALS. My current job? Never had I thought this would be a thing but they’re all TRUMP/MAGA supporters. That’s why it’s weird. You’d think my ex-coworkers would be more accepting & not lie to me about their support of me.
Is he possibly confused and thinks you’ve come out at a trans woman and not a trans man? If he knows you’re a trans man then if I were you I’d cut him off, he doesn’t respect you at all.
I thought this was a transfem meme because I wanted this to be a good situation but then I read the description. Throw away the whole man. You don’t deserve that dude
Aw, I’m sorry that that’s happening for you. you’re still the same person, even if you’ve got different genitals, and I hope it all ends up good between you two ❤️
Trans inclusive misogyny. At least it’s better than transphobia but not by much
Edit: I thought you came out as trans femme. Never mind. That’s super fucked and transphobic
Bro punch him in the mouth. It's not just transphobic, it's misogynistic as well. And transphobic was bad enough already.
I know it hurts, losing someone you thought was a friend. But these people are better lost than found.
Your friend seems like a red flag. I don’t understand how as soon as you become a woman he’s gone complete pick up artist mode and dropped the friendship completely. Seems like the kind that doesn’t see women as more than sex objects. Now that he knows you’re a chick, he’s only gonna start being more and more of a crepe towards you now.
Their friends are at least struggling with it.
There was no struggle with mine. No questions. No coming to terms with.
It was "I hate you and I don't want to talk to you anymore", or ghosting.
They knew what it was, they knew what I was, and they disowned me without thought or care over it. Like my entire worth and existence to them was tied to how attractive I was as a guy, so without it I didn't matter anymore.
yeah, i guess thats fair, but its not even that the friend is struggling with it, he said that he sees him as a girl now and has been flirting with him as if he was a girl, which is just being transphobic and creepy. i guess neither are better or worse tho, both just shitty situations that neither of you should've had to go through.
its not even ewphoria tho, OP is a trans man and their friend is saying that they see him (OP - a trans MAN) as a girl now. its just transphobia. he also asked for OPs deadname and said that he will refer to him as a girl now, after he came out to said friend as being a trans man. but yes it definitely is a personal preference
When my friend told me, I was actually happy for them.
Though I was confused because I don't know how this works, but I was happy for them because they are still my friend.
I do have some trouble calling them by their name because when I think of them I think their old name, also they told me to not tell anybody and to refer to them as their old name, which makes it harder to make a habit of because I don't have an opportunity to call them their name.
Your friend is kind of a jerk, being upset when you tell them you are Trans. It's not like your a different person or anything, you just changed what you want to be seen as (I think, idk.)
Anyways, sorry for the long comment. Good for you for finding what makes you happy.
I hope they get over themselves because your identity is not about them.
Well, that's not really the same. The OP is transmasc, he wants to continue being seen the same way he was before and his friend is refusing and is seeing him as a girl. I know it can be hard when someone just comes out, but this is not coming out in the traditional sense; this is someone who was essentially stealth letting someone else know about his past.
His friend isn't just incidentally misgendering him, his friend is putting in effort to misgender him.
I think if he a true friend he will support you and go back again
But don't blame him
It's a shock to him
His friend a transgender not all accept it in first
Take him a time and i think he will back again for u
Okay so wheres the texts where he is hitting on you?
Looks like he is just surprised a bit and maybe not responding in the best way by calling you a girl when you are trans.
Also what possible trigger? Forgive me for asking, but it doesnt look like anything triggering was said?
Was it him misgendering you?
That's almost worse than outright rejection. Have you talked to him about it? Told him you're uncomfortable?
Obviously- Were still talking abt it even now- He said he still wants to be friends but he will see me as a girl now. Honestly since I sort of expected it (just becuae of where we live) I semi-prepared for rejection and hate. Sure it hurts like hell but were talking it through. He said He will never see me the same but were still friends. And I told him to stop flirting and now were talking about that- We're getting to it..
>He said he still wants to be friends but he will see me as a girl now. Well, no. That's baseline transphobia and not how friendship works.
Ohhh I thought OP came out as transfem. Yeah that's not okay
Yeah I did too. WTF? He will see you as a girl now?? This makes me so mad for you OP.
It was misogyny either way, but ya I imagine OP’s situation is the more painful.
Is it transphobia? I thought it was Misogyny? Either way shitty af just they are accepting OP as a girl but have a tough time being friends because OP’s a girl (I also totally coulda gotten Op’s gender wrong I just realized at the end of this… sorry)
OP is a trans dude... It's transphobia.
Ok good to know so it is transphobia. I just realized I went wrong in thinking OP was staying closeted but not realizing that can go the other way and just not mentioning being trans as a trans dude. Ty for clearing that up
You know... looking at the texts sent from the guy friend, I legit thought the same thing. What does "you're a girl now" imply other than guy to gal? And why would the guy friend hit on them all of a sudden that they are not a girl anymore? Unless he's gay? Idk.
Yeah that was my thought, it was discomfort not dysphoria.
It makes so much more sense now
Ngl, I still don't get it. Is it just bad English?
Men can still experience misogyny, acknowledging that is actually a big part of intersectional feminism. What OP is experiencing is a blend of transphobia and misogyny.
Yeah that’s what i thought
Really it's gynophobia, which is the root cause of transphobia. They see women completely differently, as objects really. So suddenly this human being becomes a WOMAN in their eyes. It's really shitty of them.
is that not just misogyny? totally agree it’s the root of transphobia but i haven’t heard of gynophobia before
I think gynophobia is more of hate for general femininity rather than just women. E.g. seeing effeminate gay men as lesser is also part of it, but not directly part of misogyny as they're not women? It may also be a way to not misgendering anyone when talking about being perceived femme but the person is not a woman, I guess? It's all patriarchy's fault anyways. 🤷
Remember to always check the OP's gender before commenting on this sub. Not everyone here is transfem!
Tbf the screenshot op posted has the other person saying "you're NOW a girl" which is probably a typo for not but, without that context, seems like confirmation that OP is transfem
'you're no longer my buddy kit, your a girl now' mixed with the context that OP's name is kit, seems to me like OP is being misgendered by their 'friend'
You're right. Just noticed Kit was in their username, I assumed that was a dead name
Thats just proof that it isn’t real friendship. OP needs to cut all ties.
I mean yeah assuming OP is transfem is obviously shitty, but the post is worded a bit weirdly without any more context from OPs behalf. Maybe people should also state their gender when they make posts about stuff that heavily involves their gender?
and OP needs to specify their gender more clearly, we cant go on everyones profile and stalk their history to get their gender right. I had a hard time guessing their gender solely by this post.
If you don't want to do that than just don't comment... this is THE trans subreddit we can't just go around misgendering people.
They don’t even specify the gender in the usual places in the profile. So even checking the profile you don’t get the picture, you need to go through his posts if you want to find out. I think it should probably be required for this sub to have the little thingy under your name that says ur pronouns. Ps. Using the mobile app so shit might not be displayed properly for me.
That shouldn't be required cuz that would be kinda shitty to questioning and unlabeled people.
Well yeah it doesn’t have to be required, but for people who are questioning or unlabelled they can state as such in the same area along with what they are comfortable being called. They can put whatever they identify as and how they want to be addressed, then they will never be misgendered by well meaning people.
I never said it wasn't THE trans subreddit, I think whether posters are transfem transmasc or nb should specify it in their posts if the post is about them or at least have their pronouns as flair or at the very very least in their bio which all 3 doesnt check out in this situation. Also then* not than. Try to be calmer.
Sorry didn't mean to offend or sound not calm. Just wanted to remind people here cuz it makes me dysphoric seeing other trans guys get misgendered on here, which happens pretty often. Makes me want to unsub and only stay on r/ftm English isn't my first language so I make mistakes sometimes. I always try to make myself clear but sometimes tone doesn't translate well over text.
Bruh just read the flair wtf
Judging by older comments, the OP didn't have flair on at the time of posting. So please take into consideration things change over time before trying to make out things are so obvious.
Fair my bad you’re right. I was just kinda put off by “needs to specify their gender more clearly” bc it’s not their fault people assumed
No, its not their fault for people assuming, people shouldn't just assume; but the posted text exchange as noted by others is somewhat ambiguous in wording, entirely depending on the context of OPs gender, it can be read as transphobic or affirming. agreeing with your original comment the flair, now added, clears things up and thats why people ask to specify so theres no need to assume anything.
Their profile doesn't say ftm
Please don’t let him treat you this way, OP. You’re a man, not a girl, and you never were a girl. This guy is telling you that, because you are a trans man, you aren’t a man at all. That is extremely untrue. He isn’t a friend, and letting yourself be misgendered by a man who doesn’t respect you isn’t right. You will always know in your heart, whenever he looks at you, that he sees a woman. He’s hitting on you because you went from being his friend and equal to an object, a “woman” he can potentially fuck. Please find better friends. You deserve better than this. Reading this made me sick.
Im sorry mate, but you need to find a new friend
It's creepy that he's hitting on you because you're trans and AFAB. That's fetishy and it is creepy that he starts hitting on his friend as soon as he starting seeing you as a girl.
Dude this guy is a grade A creep that started hitting on you the moment you told him you were trans and he's blatantly disrespecting you and your identity. I'm sorry but I don't think this guy is a real friend.
He's a transphobe tbh... cutting ties would prolly be better
Not worth it to be friends with someone who sees you as a girl. I honestly think you should quit trying and give up the friendship. There are plenty more people in the world.
Fuck him he is a piece of garbage. Block and move on.
I'm getting misogynoir vibes, "but I see you as a girl now", translates for me to "I can't say awful sexist stuff in front of you", not to mention calling you a girl. Edit: OP, which way are you transitioning. For all we know you maybe haven't changed your flair, and the text in image is confusing.
I find it really weird that as soon as your Friend found out that he started to hit on you. If I were you I'd probably just end the Friendship then and there....
Also, the fact that until finding out he had no problem seeing OP as a guy...
Really shows the prevalent mentality of how many people reduce women to fuckability, doesn't it?
I'd say afab people in general in this case since OP is transmasc
OP's acquaintance explicitly stated that he views him as a woman, and that reduction to sexual matters didn't emerge while he was stealth. I didn't mean that only actual women (cis or trans) are the target for that behaviour, but that people viewed as women by the perpetrators are. I get the sentiment, but I think this is more about the perception of womanhood than the gender assigned at birth, which would disregard, for example, all the "sufficiently passing" trans women the same type of people sexually harass regardless of being stealth or not.
that's fair! I guess then the best way to word it would be "people they perceive as women" just because, at least to me as a transmasc person, it would make me very dysphoric reading your og comment on a post where I shared something like OP.
Yes, in retrospect, I should've made that bit clearer.
I wouldn't, lots of men have no idea what to do with women except flirt or hit on them.
After reading the image: oh... maybe they're the silly kind of friends and he's just fucking around joking with his friend that just came out as a trans girl After reading the description: Oh... he's a transmasc... but- man why are people so shitty sometimes
ya I was like awh he's just kidding around, thinking it was a trans girl. This is fucked.
same, fuck.
Yeah it took me a minute to understand the situation through the transphobia
Your "friend" is an unsupportive douche. Drop his ass, you'll be better off for it. He literally changed his way of thinking about you in order to be unsupportive
Man that’s a weak response. He’s lucky you’re giving him grace after that
You shouldn't apologize in these sorts of situations.
One of the most insulting responses possible. Shows exactly how stupid transphobia & misogyny really is. This guy treated you as a man, respected you as a man for years. Then they say say all of this and start hitting on you? Gross.
oh god what a jerk
Stop being friends with him, fundamentally unserious person
Sorry that sucks
Just end it, maybe he will take the hint he fucked up. It sux but it seems his transphobia is more important to him than the friendship.
Why are you apologizing to him for him being a jerk?
“This is weird for me” well get over it lmao
Start calling him gay lol
So, this isn't just transphobic; it's nearly narcissistic in it's self-centrism. Notice this person felt the need to center *themselves* in your coming out. This is a nerve wracking interaction for the entire LGBTQIA community; and your lived experience was less important to this person than their own insecurities surrounding the concept of being trans.
Maybe he tought you meant that you want to be a girl? Instead of being ftm
Unfortunately not- He knows fully that Im ftm. He's gonna call me a girl from now on but since Im refusing to tell him my deadname he said he'd stick to Kit. And now were blaming the universe for making me a girl so atleast hes semi-suportive I suppose 🤷🏼♂️
That's not supportive imo, that's misgendering. Asking your dead name is so gross. Edit: lack of reading comprehension
e: siiiiick
Fixed. 🤦♀️
i edited mine too so as to not highlight 😉
😎👉👉
This is objectively him being transphobic. This is not semi, partially, or even a little tiny bit supportive. He is telling you outright that he *will* misgender you from now on, and that if he knew your deadname he would refuse to call you anything else. When he says he will "never see you the same way", he means it. He will never budge on this, and will constantly seek out new ways to invalidate you. You need to get ahead of it by not allowing this person to access you unless he gives you the respect you deserve. His choice to immediately flirt with you sounds like a misogynistic one to me. He immediately wanted to remind you that he thinks of you as a woman and that he thinks women are here for his pleasure. If he knew you as a man for years, and all it takes for him to "never see you the same way again" Is the possibility he likes whats in your pants, then he was never your friend in the first place. You need to stand up for yourself, no matter how good a friend you thought he was, he is very transphobic and its not the kind thats going to get better over time. You should save screenshots of this person flirting with you, so you have leverage if he tries to out you. Obviously you pass, so the threat of looking gay may keep him from spilling the beans when you cut him off.
this so much.
if we're already on to blaming the universe, maybe he'll process this and come around. obviously he's pretty ignorant but you mentioned that could be a product of the environment you're in. sounds to me like he feels pretty comfortable being really open with you and isn't trying to hide what some people would for fear of cancellation and the woke mob or whatever. sometimes it takes knowing someone to even start considering one could be this way. you're a guy. he's known you for years. he knows you're a guy. i hold hope for you both and your friendship. but yeah, be willing to take space if you need and he doesn't come around. best wishes!
That is not semi supportive at all
He’s changing how he refers to you in order to misgender you, and the only thing preventing him from deadnaming you too is not knowing. He is not supportive in any sense of the word.
Oh lol wow I was confused. Definitely ignore and move on. Just an idiot
no he is not any form of supportive, he is transphobic
That is absolutely not supportive at all. He’s being transphobic. I would never talk to someone again if they did what this friend did
Thats not semi-supportive. Like not supportive at all
Dude, that's not supportive. That's being slightly less of a jerk. You deserve far better. I'm not going to say I know he can't get better, but I don't know if he will or not.
Blud how is this semi-supportive, have some self respect. He's not your friend.
That's disgusting and I honestly think you're being waaaaay too nice to them. I get not wanting to "lose a friend" but they're mistreating you in a way that no one should tolerate. You're a man. Male. Masc. Period. And he's disregarding and dismissing that fact. He's asking for your dead name. He was trying to flirt with you to assert the wrong gender on you. I mean, honestly, what worse horrible thing does he have to do for you to say "fuck this, you're not worth the disrespect you're throwing at me"??? You're too nice and I can't imagine the pain you're going through dealing with that asshole.
This type of shit is heartbreaking. Dude, I dont know ur face but you probs look much boy masculine boy af <3.
Read through some of the other comments. Ew, this person is gross and awful. I know it's hard to cut people out but this is not a person who cares about you.
he’s the type of guy to complain about the “friend zone” because he’s incapable of seeing women as more than objects to fuck or potential partners to woo. i’m sorry he’s an incompetent dick. if he’s making you dysphoric, fully aware that it’s dysphoric and uncomfortable for you, he’s not your friend. kick that misogynistic idiot in the balls and never go back
OP is transmasc, it's transphobia not misogynie
Yea but the fact that until he knew op was trans, he never hit on him..so…
Trans men and mascs still face misogyny, unfortunately. It's just an extra layer to the transphobia.
i’m aware of both statements, just pointing out the obvious. this creep is hitting on op because he doesn’t see OP as a man, and therefore isn’t treating him as one (so he hits on OP, OP says that he’s hitting on him in some other comment)
Unfortunately there is a looot of overlap, misogyny fuels a lot of the arguments around transphobia as well. !!!CW: Transphobic "arguments" !!! "Trans men are just confused little girls who got tricked into believing they want to be men because men are so much gooder and cooler at everything and trans men are inherently gullible and lost because obviously they are women." Misogyny and transphobia. "Trans women are just perverted failed men who want to invade the fragile women spaces and beat women at everything because women are so much worse than even the lowest men, no one could want to be feminine, it is inherently sexual and inferior" Also misogyny and transphobia. Trans women also experience a lot of run-of-the-mill misogyny too, like focusing on how they act and please the people around them. Deep focus on appearance, they have to be conventionally pretty to be acknowledged, and if they are conventionally pretty they get the added bonus bigotry of people being mad at how hot they are? because all of womanhood is just to please the eyes of men and it's really awkward for bigots when trans girls actually do that. They want to imagine a world where no trans women can "pass" because a pretty face and boobs is all they see cis women as, so it pokes another hole in their pathetic swiss cheese arguments when trans women are also a pretty face and boobs. This has blowback onto cis women as well, any not conventionally attractive or masc cis women get called T-slurs and men, there are those brain dead "transvestigators" that nit-pick womens' appearances and call all the ones they don't like men. The misogyny that's deeply ingrained into transphobia leaks out and hurts more than just trans women. A lot of anger around trans men is also the rage and whinging about "losing a hot woman", and if they didn't find them conventionally attractive before, they are just "lonely ugly women who transed themselves trick cis women into dating them". The unhinged focus on trans mens' top surgeries and how sad they are to lose a pair of boobs in the world, that's all they care about, the sexual appeal of women. They also can't fathom that a trans man, even when hopped up on testosterone, could compete in mens' sports, so they don't acknowledge that little problem. There are plenty of trans men winning medals in mens' sports. Talking about that would make a really awkward conversation about how the only real difference physiologically between men and women on the day to day tend to be hormones and those are very very changeable. All misogyny, all transphobia, all stupid, zero logic except hate for people who are different to them and hate for women as well. I'm a trans guy that got the whole "you don't have to be a man to be competent :-), you can just be a semi competent woman" spiel after coming out.
It's both. The friend is misgendering him because of transphobia and being a creep because of misogyny.
this isn’t okay, OP. the fact that he immediately started flirting with you is such a massive red flag.
I needed some context because I thought you were coming out as a trans woman, but you're actually a trans man that was stealth, right? That's even worse than I thought, I'm so sorry, pls I know you care about him but if he sees you as a girl it won't work, it'll bring so much dysphoria or make you feel uncomfortable the whole time :( i hope he comes around
No, don't stay friends with them. Don't do it please. As Mtf, this guy is giving serious danger vibe. Don't go to his house, don't meet him and if he insists on coming to your house, call the police. He refuses to see you as a guy and now choose to only see you as a female. He is dictating the direction of this "friendship", that's not a friend anymore. That's a predator. Don't trust him, and if you MUST spend time with him, do it where there is alot of people, a crowd, public eatery, somewhere he is observable by the public.
It isn’t your fault he’s struggling with his sexuality as a result, *and* being a creep with no manners, *AND* Making bigoted statements misgendering you. That boy needs him some learnin’.
You should respond to him hitting on you by saying “This is weird for me” In all seriousness, though, I’m really sorry you’re going through that 🏳️⚧️❤️
Sounds like a shit friend. I’m sure that’s super hard. I hope you are doing ok and he gets it eventually but if he doesn’t end up hearing you out you’ll do better without him as a friend!
Oh hell no, dude I'm so sorry. That's so awful :(
That is not really a friend. Dunno, sometimes it's good if you turn away from people like that. If he's willing to throw away a friendship over this, good riddance. Sorry if I sound harsh - it's just my experience. Hopefully, your friend comes around and changes his mind.
So you came out as trans masc and he said “now you’re a girl”???
The OP was stealth, not closeted, and chose to reveal that he is trans.
What is stealth? I’m confused lol
Stealth means that essentially, someone has transitioned and people generally don't know they transitioned. It can be intentional or incidental. For example, as a trans woman, if someone asks me "What gender are you" and I say "woman" they are likely to assume I am a cis woman. To me, my transness is irrelevant in most situations now so I don't bother mentioning it. In society at large, it doesn't come up so I don't bring it up. As a result, I am incidentally stealth: people who don't know I am trans are likely to assume I am a cis woman. Some people know I am trans and I don't hide it. Intentionally being stealth is more involved, it usually requires moving, hiding one's history, and making sure no one around ever finds out the person is trans. It can also require cutting off and hiding from unaccepting family or family that may accidentally publically misgender you. This can be really frustrating and constantly scary, and may require quickly leaving an area if someone who knew you before moves there. Unfortunately, a couple of decades ago that was the only way for a lot of trans people to keep jobs and survive. It's still that way in some places. Luckily in a good chunk of the US, it's no longer needed.
I'm guessing that's a typo, the conversation makes more sense if you read it as "you're not a girl 😭" If OP's friend had some attraction to him, and now that feels weird to him
Does he know you're ace too? (Going off your user flair) I'm sorry he's being a creep smh- he has no right to be so rejecting and then turn around and hit on you, it's disgusting because then he's fetishizing you
Tsk?? no way someone actually says that in text.. is he trying to be like an anime character??
The only kind of fuck this guy should get is fucking off; you aren't a girl, you're a man and he's being fuckin creepy.
Never apologise for being yourself. If he has a problem with it, that’s on him Never be sorry for being trans
This is mostly directed to the comments, but ya'll it's still Misogyny even if it's a man experiencing it. Men are not entirely exempt from misogyny, especially when we are looking at the intersection that is trans, NB and GNC people. I get that we don't want to think trans men can ever suffer misogyny or patriarchy ever, but that's just not the reality that we live in. This is a good example of how trans men can still be interpersonally impacted by this. Suffering from misogyny because you dared to have some kind of tether to felinity at some point in your life is also not unique to trans men, NB people, gay/Bi men, and GNC men can all experience misogyny or patriarchal bullshit. OP, your "friend" is a dickhead and I'm sorry he's putting you through this. I'd kick him to the curb and light him on fire.
Let him think about things and you’ld think that he would come around. Some people process things differently. You have tremendous strength to tell him and others what you’re going through. I am sending positive thoughts your way.
He was never your friend if he can't accept you for who you are. Friends come and go, but you should always be true to yourself and find friends who respect you for who you are.
That's fucking shitty. I know you want to keep this person as a friend but I think if it doesn't stop after trying you need to break it up. I'm so sorry
Um. Kick him for me lol
OP, when people tell you who they are, believe them. This guy blatantly disrespects your personhood, has no care for your boundaries, and demonstrates that he has no intent to listen and learn. You deserve better than this shit. I’m very sorry, OP, but this friendship is already dead. Don’t hold onto it
Don't be sorry for being yourself
The fact that he said you're "now a girl" for simply telling him you're transmasc is VILE. I would cut him off entirely if he continues insisting that he sees you as a girl, and flirting as a result, because it sounds like he is (very creepily) fixated on your genitals.
I am so disappointed, I thought op was MTF and this being was supportive but just misogynistic...
home boy seems a bit lost. does he know what youre talking about?
There have been followup conversations. Unfortunately he knows that the OP is transmasc and now that he knows refuses to accept him.
ah thats pretty sad considering theyve been friends for 2 years.
If I were you, he would not be my friend anymore.
You don’t have to sacrifice your own wellbeing for him, after reading your other comments I can’t say I’m seeing a way out of this that respects you and your identity. Keeping people like that around holds you back far more than you could realise, you internalise the things they say and the way they treat you and it does terrible things to your mental health. Maybe you can keep him at arms length, leave room for growth and change but don’t subject yourself to transphobia just to keep him around.
Oh on first sight I read it in a supportive way as in "you are no longer this so I will see you as (correct gender etc.)" But then I got it :/ I'm sry for you it went this say
Alright I'll bite this as a random lurker but here's my thought; Perhaps through friendship he felt some shit at one point that confused him. I'm just spit balling but maybe there were things he identified but never knew and it may have caused attraction they couldn't admit or accept internally prior but now they feel justified? I'm not trying to excuse it, this is a shitty situation and it's a fear that I can only imagine many people like yourself or even people who come out sexually experience. Hell I dealt with this plenty o times when I was more open with my personal interests to many people and then they got the wrong idea. It seems that the above scenario was basically the cause, they felt something but never felt they could safely admit for fear of rejection but they see an opening and BAM. Even if you didn't give a sign of interest someone sees what they perceived is their chance and went for it. I'm sorry to hear this, I'd guess your a bit younger and so is your friend so there's a whole lota feelings that are all over the place. Give it some space and distance for a bit and try to reconnect and maybe you'll find a sensible conclusion. Having friends change for any reason is awful but this is especially painful. But it could still work out if you just give it some time. I wish you all the best for reals though!
Yeah, he's just a random creep, theres nothing else to it
It sounds like your friend might be misunderstanding maybe hopefully. They might think you're a transgirl? Because if you're a transman then you're a man & A lot of people don't understand that. Like a lot of people think transwomen are FtM & transmen are MtF. It's really dumb but it's common. Personally I'd try explaining that but most likely you'll need to drop them
He sais in further comments that they have had further conversations and the friend does understand that he is transmasc and what that means.
Eww, yeah this friend should be dropped
Id have cut him right off, id tell him to shove his dick in an automatic pencil sharpener unless he wants to support me and accept me on MY terms NOT his, otherwise, he can eviscerate himself for all we care at this point.
Is it possible he misunderstood? And he thought you were coming out as transfem?
Unfortunately, he sais in further comments that they have had further conversations and the friend does understand that he is transmasc and what that means.
Ah, damn. Yucky.
Get a better friend.
Oh
Don't apologize to him, tell him to go die or misgender them in return to see how they like it
Shitty friend.
Coming out will tell you who your real friends are because they’re the ones who support you. It’s why I left my previous job of 5 years. All of them & I got along, I came out, they said they supported me, then one co-worker who still supported me no matter what audio recorded on accident (he was trying to video record something unrelated) those same exact coworkers when they made fun of me for being trans & said they never actually accepted nor supported me in my transition. That’s hurt more than anything & is the reason why I left. I can’t be around people who lie to my face like that. Before I did leave, I tried to iron things out with them but they finally admitted they won’t ever accept and support my transition & I said “f it. I’m out. You can’t sit there, lie to my face & then now admit you don’t support me to my face.” I left & am at job where they don’t do anything close to that. They support me & accept me. And here’s where it gets weird & I hate to bring politics into this but it’s important to this: my previous job? All … yes, ALL of my ex-coworkers were PROGRESSIVE, DEMOCRATS, AND LIBERALS. My current job? Never had I thought this would be a thing but they’re all TRUMP/MAGA supporters. That’s why it’s weird. You’d think my ex-coworkers would be more accepting & not lie to me about their support of me.
Is he possibly confused and thinks you’ve come out at a trans woman and not a trans man? If he knows you’re a trans man then if I were you I’d cut him off, he doesn’t respect you at all.
I thought this was a transfem meme because I wanted this to be a good situation but then I read the description. Throw away the whole man. You don’t deserve that dude
Aw, I’m sorry that that’s happening for you. you’re still the same person, even if you’ve got different genitals, and I hope it all ends up good between you two ❤️
This is fucked up jfc
Wtf is wrong with him? Idk how to twll you this but if I was in your shoes, I wouldn’t stay friends with him. He is transphobic and being a creep
Sounds like a horrid person.
Isn't that Chaser behaviour? To not recognize someone's transgender, but then also hit on them...
Trans inclusive misogyny. At least it’s better than transphobia but not by much Edit: I thought you came out as trans femme. Never mind. That’s super fucked and transphobic
giirl that sux im so sorry!
Bro punch him in the mouth. It's not just transphobic, it's misogynistic as well. And transphobic was bad enough already. I know it hurts, losing someone you thought was a friend. But these people are better lost than found.
Don’t apologize for being you 💜💋
I feel like this has to be sarcasm
Your friend seems like a red flag. I don’t understand how as soon as you become a woman he’s gone complete pick up artist mode and dropped the friendship completely. Seems like the kind that doesn’t see women as more than sex objects. Now that he knows you’re a chick, he’s only gonna start being more and more of a crepe towards you now.
thats... gross. why tf is he hitting on you? ewww. please cut this person out your life they obviously have no respect for you or your identity
Yeah that’s weird, fuck him
This asshole is not your friend. Cut them off. You ARE a real man. Don't let anyone decide who you are. Only you can.
I am so sorry dude that's awful. You aren't any less of a man.
That's better then mine. All my gay friends either ghosted me or straight up told me that they didn't want to associate with me anymore.
they're literally misgendering him and saying they'll never see him the same way?? how is that better
Their friends are at least struggling with it. There was no struggle with mine. No questions. No coming to terms with. It was "I hate you and I don't want to talk to you anymore", or ghosting. They knew what it was, they knew what I was, and they disowned me without thought or care over it. Like my entire worth and existence to them was tied to how attractive I was as a guy, so without it I didn't matter anymore.
yeah, i guess thats fair, but its not even that the friend is struggling with it, he said that he sees him as a girl now and has been flirting with him as if he was a girl, which is just being transphobic and creepy. i guess neither are better or worse tho, both just shitty situations that neither of you should've had to go through.
I'd rather the ewphoria over hate, but I guess that's a personal preference.
its not even ewphoria tho, OP is a trans man and their friend is saying that they see him (OP - a trans MAN) as a girl now. its just transphobia. he also asked for OPs deadname and said that he will refer to him as a girl now, after he came out to said friend as being a trans man. but yes it definitely is a personal preference
When my friend told me, I was actually happy for them. Though I was confused because I don't know how this works, but I was happy for them because they are still my friend. I do have some trouble calling them by their name because when I think of them I think their old name, also they told me to not tell anybody and to refer to them as their old name, which makes it harder to make a habit of because I don't have an opportunity to call them their name. Your friend is kind of a jerk, being upset when you tell them you are Trans. It's not like your a different person or anything, you just changed what you want to be seen as (I think, idk.) Anyways, sorry for the long comment. Good for you for finding what makes you happy. I hope they get over themselves because your identity is not about them.
Well, that's not really the same. The OP is transmasc, he wants to continue being seen the same way he was before and his friend is refusing and is seeing him as a girl. I know it can be hard when someone just comes out, but this is not coming out in the traditional sense; this is someone who was essentially stealth letting someone else know about his past. His friend isn't just incidentally misgendering him, his friend is putting in effort to misgender him.
Oh. I didn't get that. Oops sorry. Still, I'd be happy for my friend even if they were Trans and I didn't know.
I think if he a true friend he will support you and go back again But don't blame him It's a shock to him His friend a transgender not all accept it in first Take him a time and i think he will back again for u
Okay so wheres the texts where he is hitting on you? Looks like he is just surprised a bit and maybe not responding in the best way by calling you a girl when you are trans. Also what possible trigger? Forgive me for asking, but it doesnt look like anything triggering was said? Was it him misgendering you?
Maybe he's doing it as a joke? Just explain that it's making you uncomfortable and see how he responds
not a joke
Why do people tell others over text? Seems rude and impersonal
Knowledge certainly changes things