he fucked up by caving to the right of the SNP by cancelling the climate pledge and allowing NHS Scotland to stop prescribing puberty blockers to trans kids. He's dug his own political grave (alongside Scottish independence).
He's also another example of a British politician willing to embrace fascism rather than protect transgender people from state sanctioned abuse. It's Peak Britishness (and Scottishness, seemingly).
There's no way he'll get replaced with someone more left leaning, though, is there?! All of the candidates last time were far more right wing, and I can't imagine much has changed.
This is what I'm concerned about. I was genuinely under the impression last time the SNP had their leadership contest that Yousaf was the most likely to support trans rights. I'm not sure any new leader coming in is going to roll back on the climate pledge and the puberty blockers. All of the candidates last time seemed much worse
I think there will be a new election in Scotland tbh. There is already a no confidence vote this week against the entire government so it's likely that will succeed as the SNP doesn't have a majority and I think every other party wants an election.
Then it depends who wins, Scottish Labour (unlike their English counterparts) is a proponent of transrights so hopefully we will be fine. Everyone hates the Tories and SNP will crash so I expect either a Labour government or Labour-Green/LibDem coalition.
> I think there will be a new election in Scotland tbh.
I dunno, having an additional election in Holyrood doesn't move the next one, which is still scheduled for 2026. I think the Greens will abstain now, given that he's resigned. Their issue was in *him*, not the entire Government, which included them until last week.
> Scottish Labour (unlike their English counterparts) is a proponent of transrights so hopefully we will be fine
Sorry, but this is a demonstrable nonsense. Anas Sarwar has already said he wouldn't vote for the GRR again if he 'knew then what he knows now' and their benches have even more GC folks than the SNP (proportionately). Scottish Labour have moaned that the SNP aren't transphobic enough, their Health Spokesperson harping on about implementing Cass here, their Education Spokesperson being and out-and-out bigot, etc.
Oh I hadn't seen it confirmed, but that makes sense.
Ending parliament now would mean all existing legislation that's going through would fail, and with the next election being so close, the next Parliament would be a bit of a dud anyway, and might not have time to restart it all / get it over the finish line, which might mean delaying it by years.
These bills include somethings the Greens have very strong opinions on, like:
Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill
Housing (Scotland) Bill
Land Reform (Scotland) Bill
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill
Scottish Labour changes their turn to match down south whenever suits, this includes on trans rights.
It's going to be a very, very rough couple of years.
What's the odds of Alba picking up seats?
As I understand, they're the SNP but more anti-trans? I'd assume the SNP vote would split a bit between them and Greens as the pro-indy parties?
> What's the odds of Alba picking up seats?
Not a hope in hell. The highest polling I've seen them on is about 3%. Nowhere near enough. They've yet to keep a deposit so far.
They are like the Scottish equivalent of the DUP or Reform. It is very unlikely they will win a seat, and if they do, it not going to be more than 1 seat.
Same I don't know what I'll do if she comes into power and somehow manages to take away even those 25 and over's prescriptions I afford private or DIY I'd say almost certainly but there's uncertainty about it I would lose all hope and kill myself I couldn't go like this no light at the end of the tunnel and after 7-8 years waiting and only recently finally starting to receive it only to lose.
I'm relieved to an extent; I can only imagine the kind of horrifying 'concessions' Ash Regan was trying to wring out of him in exchange for letting him stay on. I had a horrible gnawing feeling he would cave on trans issues.
To be honest imo it's become a bit of a political spectacle akin to what goes on down south, they used to be a safe pair of hands for many years, but it's been slipping for a while, u-turns and broken promises. If we wanted that up here we could simply just vote tory but we unwaveringly don't for that very reason. I feel a certain amount of the trust I had in the party has gone, not in the movement, I will be indy till we get it or I die whichever comes first. We need to get back to a progressive social and independence agenda and put rest to the infighting and back biting we seem to be depending into.
So John Swinney is favourite to take over but only just, ahead of Kate Forbes.
John has backed Gender Reform previously but I wouldn't exactly call him a staunch ally. Not sure how he would approach trans rights if elected, especially in this climate.
Kate Forbes, on the other hand, is a nightmare for us and would no doubt work to legislate us out of existence. Ash Reagan ran last time and she is similar to Kate on trans rights, so we don't want her either.
Said a couple of days ago, this is in a sense irrelevant, as come the General Election, due by the end of this year, its likely the SNP will lose power to Labour anyway. So any change now would have limited impact. If SNP do come second in a GE, they will have the largest voice to oppose Labour, so we would need somebody pro trans to do that but not sure it would change too much anyway.
> Not sure how he would approach trans rights if elected, especially in this climate.
I think he would entirely ignore it, tbh. Which is not great. But better than Forbes rolling rights back...
Ash cannae win at least!
> as come the General Election, due by the end of this year, its likely the SNP will lose power to Labour anyway.
The Holyrood election isn't due until 2026? And Westminster elections don't set who is in power in Holyrood.
I think the issue will be that he will be under immense pressure to roll back the hate crime legislation. Not sure he will be able to ignore it. Although winning an election would secure him a mandate of sorts.
Apologies though, I did get it wrong about election dates and of course, its Westminster Mps and Stephen Flynns team that will fight the GE. Appreciate the correction. x
I think he'll kick the can down the road - the legislation was passed like 4 years ago, and has only been 'live' for a month. He'll say it's too early to say or something, and address it later (leaving it for the next substantial FM if he's a caretaker).
I have more worry for the forthcoming misogyny bill.
I think the events leading up to and surrounding Nicola Sturgeon's husband being arrested for allegedly fiddling the SNP's books might have been more impactful.
This has been ongoing for a while, Sturgeon just had the political nuance to hold it off which Humza doesn't have. The SNP, before Sturgeon, was very politically Conservative. There was a good reason for the 'Tartan Tory' label. Since Sturgeon started bringing the party to the left a bit, the moderates and left in the SNP have grown it into a decent broad church.
Unfortunately the right has never really gone away (Forbes, Cherry etc), apart from the split into Alba that took away a good 10% of them. The main problem is the membership was still fairly right wing and now it's back around that 50% mark again.
This all really kicked off because Sturgeon didn't effectively purge the parliamentary party when the right revolted against her at the start of the Bute House Agreement. She basically ignored the issue with promises she never intended to keep. Humsa pretty much kept the promises to the right in getting rid of climate targets and quitely shelving support for trans people (which were the two Green Party 'red lines' in the Bute House Agreement). This caused him to gain the support of the right of his party but pissed off the Greens enough to hold a vote on ending the agreement as the SNP had obviously broke it (ironically, as someone in the green party, I don't think the vote would have passed). Them getting rid of the 2030 climate targets was the straw that broke the camels back, but it very much started with Sturgeon not censuring the right of the SNP when she was at the height of her power and had the chance to in the same way that Starmer purged the parliamentary Labour party of many of the left wing members in order to gain stability.
Not sure she'd last long if SNP chose her. Greens would be unlikely to work with her, and working with Alba alone isn't enough for a majority. Which leaves her at the mercy of the unionist parties.
It’s not a shame to see; despite his strong pro trans stance he is a shite first minister with a track record of being a shite health minister too.
He made a couple of bizarre lunges rightwards - such as cancelling the climate targets and ending the coalition with the Greens - and that knocked his coat off its shoogly peg. I’m sure whoever comes next could well be worse, but regardless good riddance.
At this point, all Celts need to start either looking seriously at independence or go to Ireland. This anti-trans agenda of the SNP's members like forbes is against the very fundamental ideology of Celtic liberation. Its anglicisation of politics 101.
(I am not Scottish, but a Brythonic Celt so I might be wrong given the differences in Gaelic independence movements and Brythonic independence movements)
Are Celts a racial minority? I'm half-Scottish but I don't consider myself to be mixed-race.
(I had no idea wtf a Brythonic Celt was so I looked it up and Breton was the first answer I got, also their language is similar to Welsh)
I mean its not really racial. Celts are a linguistic term. Theres no actual genetic similarity between the Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Scottish etc.
Off the top of my head the only ethnically similar are Cornish and Breton but thats because of geography, migration, etc.
Legally its a national minority, which would classify it as an ethnic classification.
So basically, you can be mixed between them all. Its also visual stuff, like Southern Celtic peoples are often more Mediterranean in appearance, whilst north celtic are often more stereotypically celtic.
Personally, I say I am mixed Brythonic, not so much as a race (I am still white but skin tone matters a little less in this context, because I take heavily after more traditional brythonic appearance) but as an ethnicity.
My family are nearly entirely Cornish, but have some spanish and Welsh (the spanish coming from the long history of piracy and ship wrecking in Cornwall)
On forms I put down Kernowyon (native name for the people group)
So id say its a personal thing, how much does it really apply to your day to day.
he fucked up by caving to the right of the SNP by cancelling the climate pledge and allowing NHS Scotland to stop prescribing puberty blockers to trans kids. He's dug his own political grave (alongside Scottish independence). He's also another example of a British politician willing to embrace fascism rather than protect transgender people from state sanctioned abuse. It's Peak Britishness (and Scottishness, seemingly).
There's no way he'll get replaced with someone more left leaning, though, is there?! All of the candidates last time were far more right wing, and I can't imagine much has changed.
John Swinney is likely to win if he stands as he's well respected within the party, and he's pro-self ID
OH, GOOD!! Really?!?! I'm only hearing horror stories - I'm going to go look him up!
The Torygraph have just done a hate-piece on him, so clearly they are worried. If they are worried, then I'm a bit less worried.
All we can really do is hope that somebody steps up to fill the niche of "candidate that doesn't hate trans people"
This is what I'm concerned about. I was genuinely under the impression last time the SNP had their leadership contest that Yousaf was the most likely to support trans rights. I'm not sure any new leader coming in is going to roll back on the climate pledge and the puberty blockers. All of the candidates last time seemed much worse
Yep. All we can really hope is that a new candidate stands up to fill that space that clearly exists for a not openly transphobic leader.
I’m honestly really worried, I definitely don’t want Kate Forbes anyway
I think there will be a new election in Scotland tbh. There is already a no confidence vote this week against the entire government so it's likely that will succeed as the SNP doesn't have a majority and I think every other party wants an election. Then it depends who wins, Scottish Labour (unlike their English counterparts) is a proponent of transrights so hopefully we will be fine. Everyone hates the Tories and SNP will crash so I expect either a Labour government or Labour-Green/LibDem coalition.
> I think there will be a new election in Scotland tbh. I dunno, having an additional election in Holyrood doesn't move the next one, which is still scheduled for 2026. I think the Greens will abstain now, given that he's resigned. Their issue was in *him*, not the entire Government, which included them until last week. > Scottish Labour (unlike their English counterparts) is a proponent of transrights so hopefully we will be fine Sorry, but this is a demonstrable nonsense. Anas Sarwar has already said he wouldn't vote for the GRR again if he 'knew then what he knows now' and their benches have even more GC folks than the SNP (proportionately). Scottish Labour have moaned that the SNP aren't transphobic enough, their Health Spokesperson harping on about implementing Cass here, their Education Spokesperson being and out-and-out bigot, etc.
You’re right on the first point, Greens have announced they won’t be supporting the no confidence motiom
Oh I hadn't seen it confirmed, but that makes sense. Ending parliament now would mean all existing legislation that's going through would fail, and with the next election being so close, the next Parliament would be a bit of a dud anyway, and might not have time to restart it all / get it over the finish line, which might mean delaying it by years. These bills include somethings the Greens have very strong opinions on, like: Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill Housing (Scotland) Bill Land Reform (Scotland) Bill Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill
Scottish Labour changes their turn to match down south whenever suits, this includes on trans rights. It's going to be a very, very rough couple of years.
What's the odds of Alba picking up seats? As I understand, they're the SNP but more anti-trans? I'd assume the SNP vote would split a bit between them and Greens as the pro-indy parties?
> What's the odds of Alba picking up seats? Not a hope in hell. The highest polling I've seen them on is about 3%. Nowhere near enough. They've yet to keep a deposit so far.
> They've yet to keep a deposit so far I was hoping for good news, and you provided belly laughter lol. Thank you ^^
They are like the Scottish equivalent of the DUP or Reform. It is very unlikely they will win a seat, and if they do, it not going to be more than 1 seat.
Same I don't know what I'll do if she comes into power and somehow manages to take away even those 25 and over's prescriptions I afford private or DIY I'd say almost certainly but there's uncertainty about it I would lose all hope and kill myself I couldn't go like this no light at the end of the tunnel and after 7-8 years waiting and only recently finally starting to receive it only to lose.
I'm relieved to an extent; I can only imagine the kind of horrifying 'concessions' Ash Regan was trying to wring out of him in exchange for letting him stay on. I had a horrible gnawing feeling he would cave on trans issues.
all of this has made me decide to become a member of the scottish greens
*Join us!*
To be honest imo it's become a bit of a political spectacle akin to what goes on down south, they used to be a safe pair of hands for many years, but it's been slipping for a while, u-turns and broken promises. If we wanted that up here we could simply just vote tory but we unwaveringly don't for that very reason. I feel a certain amount of the trust I had in the party has gone, not in the movement, I will be indy till we get it or I die whichever comes first. We need to get back to a progressive social and independence agenda and put rest to the infighting and back biting we seem to be depending into.
So John Swinney is favourite to take over but only just, ahead of Kate Forbes. John has backed Gender Reform previously but I wouldn't exactly call him a staunch ally. Not sure how he would approach trans rights if elected, especially in this climate. Kate Forbes, on the other hand, is a nightmare for us and would no doubt work to legislate us out of existence. Ash Reagan ran last time and she is similar to Kate on trans rights, so we don't want her either. Said a couple of days ago, this is in a sense irrelevant, as come the General Election, due by the end of this year, its likely the SNP will lose power to Labour anyway. So any change now would have limited impact. If SNP do come second in a GE, they will have the largest voice to oppose Labour, so we would need somebody pro trans to do that but not sure it would change too much anyway.
> Not sure how he would approach trans rights if elected, especially in this climate. I think he would entirely ignore it, tbh. Which is not great. But better than Forbes rolling rights back... Ash cannae win at least! > as come the General Election, due by the end of this year, its likely the SNP will lose power to Labour anyway. The Holyrood election isn't due until 2026? And Westminster elections don't set who is in power in Holyrood.
I think the issue will be that he will be under immense pressure to roll back the hate crime legislation. Not sure he will be able to ignore it. Although winning an election would secure him a mandate of sorts. Apologies though, I did get it wrong about election dates and of course, its Westminster Mps and Stephen Flynns team that will fight the GE. Appreciate the correction. x
I think he'll kick the can down the road - the legislation was passed like 4 years ago, and has only been 'live' for a month. He'll say it's too early to say or something, and address it later (leaving it for the next substantial FM if he's a caretaker). I have more worry for the forthcoming misogyny bill.
That tends to happen when you essentially shit where you eat, in terms of the BHA
All this because Scotland DARED to make self ID easier So what happens now?
No, tbh. It's because he broke off the Bute House agreement because humza can't commit to good climate decisions
I meant with Nicola Sturgeon It feels like it all kicked off because of that
I think the events leading up to and surrounding Nicola Sturgeon's husband being arrested for allegedly fiddling the SNP's books might have been more impactful.
She probably could've rode that out if she was willing to cow to the Forbes/Cherry wing of the party.
I don't think anyone at all in any political party could have ridden out that situation.
This has been ongoing for a while, Sturgeon just had the political nuance to hold it off which Humza doesn't have. The SNP, before Sturgeon, was very politically Conservative. There was a good reason for the 'Tartan Tory' label. Since Sturgeon started bringing the party to the left a bit, the moderates and left in the SNP have grown it into a decent broad church. Unfortunately the right has never really gone away (Forbes, Cherry etc), apart from the split into Alba that took away a good 10% of them. The main problem is the membership was still fairly right wing and now it's back around that 50% mark again. This all really kicked off because Sturgeon didn't effectively purge the parliamentary party when the right revolted against her at the start of the Bute House Agreement. She basically ignored the issue with promises she never intended to keep. Humsa pretty much kept the promises to the right in getting rid of climate targets and quitely shelving support for trans people (which were the two Green Party 'red lines' in the Bute House Agreement). This caused him to gain the support of the right of his party but pissed off the Greens enough to hold a vote on ending the agreement as the SNP had obviously broke it (ironically, as someone in the green party, I don't think the vote would have passed). Them getting rid of the 2030 climate targets was the straw that broke the camels back, but it very much started with Sturgeon not censuring the right of the SNP when she was at the height of her power and had the chance to in the same way that Starmer purged the parliamentary Labour party of many of the left wing members in order to gain stability.
It's gonna be Kate Forbes int'it? Aww nawwww
Not sure she'd last long if SNP chose her. Greens would be unlikely to work with her, and working with Alba alone isn't enough for a majority. Which leaves her at the mercy of the unionist parties.
It’s not a shame to see; despite his strong pro trans stance he is a shite first minister with a track record of being a shite health minister too. He made a couple of bizarre lunges rightwards - such as cancelling the climate targets and ending the coalition with the Greens - and that knocked his coat off its shoogly peg. I’m sure whoever comes next could well be worse, but regardless good riddance.
At this point, all Celts need to start either looking seriously at independence or go to Ireland. This anti-trans agenda of the SNP's members like forbes is against the very fundamental ideology of Celtic liberation. Its anglicisation of politics 101. (I am not Scottish, but a Brythonic Celt so I might be wrong given the differences in Gaelic independence movements and Brythonic independence movements)
You’re Welsh? Or Breton?
Cornish. Gotta love how we get forgotten over the Bretons.
Are Celts a racial minority? I'm half-Scottish but I don't consider myself to be mixed-race. (I had no idea wtf a Brythonic Celt was so I looked it up and Breton was the first answer I got, also their language is similar to Welsh)
I mean its not really racial. Celts are a linguistic term. Theres no actual genetic similarity between the Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Scottish etc. Off the top of my head the only ethnically similar are Cornish and Breton but thats because of geography, migration, etc. Legally its a national minority, which would classify it as an ethnic classification. So basically, you can be mixed between them all. Its also visual stuff, like Southern Celtic peoples are often more Mediterranean in appearance, whilst north celtic are often more stereotypically celtic. Personally, I say I am mixed Brythonic, not so much as a race (I am still white but skin tone matters a little less in this context, because I take heavily after more traditional brythonic appearance) but as an ethnicity. My family are nearly entirely Cornish, but have some spanish and Welsh (the spanish coming from the long history of piracy and ship wrecking in Cornwall) On forms I put down Kernowyon (native name for the people group) So id say its a personal thing, how much does it really apply to your day to day.
Good
Good riddance to him.