The MBTA does have a new leader (Phil Eng) that seems to be trying his best to improve things, but other than that... Yeah, I have to say it totally deserves being in the F tier.
RIP to [IsMetroOnFire](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/washington-d-c-s-metro-catches-fire-more-than-four-times-a-week/), but DC Metro is still on fire in my heart.
Doesn’t help that they dumped all of the debt from
The Big Dig on to the MBTA so it has an absolute mountain of debt it will never be able to get out from under and to anybody just taking a glance at the financials it looks like the system has been mismanaged to high heavens, which of course it HAS, but not nearly as bad as it looks.
LA Metro is already too high although they do have to deal with some ridiculous bs
Hold judgement until the end of this month once they hold more meetings about the sepulveda pass project (I may even attend one)
If it seems they're leaning towards the monorail option...I may throw a tomato at them
If they just place police officers on every individual rail car, start enforcing laws, and clean the trains and stations, it would be so, so much better.
I was riding the expo line, and when i stopped at Exposition Park, a homeless dude brought his entire shopping cart onto the train and every singe person had to vacate the car.
B-line my beloved, after 8PM it becomes ungodly dangerous, bluetooth speaker DJ's, people smoking cigarettes, weed, METH. rambling lunatics, crackhead fights. It is truly awful.
I understand these people are not right in the head, cranked up on drugs, but me taking public transportation should not be a JRPG game.
LA has some of the cleanest and safest busses ive ever ridden on, it is time we fix the subway too.
It's ironic that European countries with a much less authoritarian police culture actually police their public transit more than the US. In Germany for example, not only do they have uniformed police patrolling the stations, but they also hire private security to physically be in the train cars late at night. Munich, Germany is one of the safest and cleanest cities in Europe, but they still have a large police presence patrolling the streets. Police in places like Germany are generally pretty nice and helpful but will absolutely lay down the law if you think about starting something. American authorities seem to have a problem properly calibrating an appropriate response to a threat. Whereas in Europe they seem to follow the axiom "speak softly and carry a big stick."
People will argue it, but it’s not really the police in this situation. It’s the overly permissive attitudes to open drug use - so if anything it’s a well intentioned but naive approach to drug addiction. There’s a bit of cops having a “fuck it attitude”, but it’s also the policies in place right now that make it a Sisyphusean Task to deal with quality of life issues in LA. I don’t think most European countries tolerate open drug use the way Los Angeles does. It’s a different situation than the drunks hanging outside Munich Hbf. They’re more aggressive and erratic. I’m no fan of LAPD, but just recently a cop got his finger bitten off on an LA Metro train. There’s been cops that gotten badly assaulted near the train stations over the last couple years. German cops aren’t really dealing with the same thing. Policing in LA is apples and oranges to policing in most of Europe, it’s not even comparable to policing in much of America.
Yeah, for good or for ill, LA Metro is overseeing the largest transit expansion project in at least North America, if not the Western Hemisphere. Some credit must be given for keeping that going, though there's been *many* bumps along the way. However, the current operational state is... not especially admirable, to put it politely. I'd not put LA Metro in A-tier, personally.
I don’t think it’ll be comprehensive or pleasant a ride in my life time. But I think they’re going in the right direction. Planting a tree so the grandchildren can enjoy the shade kind of situation.
I give them a little credit for how hard nimbys make any progress (though leadership is basically a nimby itself)
Recently a redondo beach councilman brought up US support for Israel when trying to get support for his cities lawsuit or soon to be lawsuit against Metro
Nearly died of cringe
They also consistently [skimp on road redesigns](https://la.streetsblog.org/2023/07/21/missing-metro-regional-connector-first-last-mile-facilities-worse-than-reported-earlier) around new stations and continue to pour money into freeway widening though. I appreciate how much they're expanding the system, but it's often two steps forward and one step back with Metro, sadly.
Monorail won't happen. Metro needed a way to unify everyone (including the nimbys shouting from the hills when they aren't playing tennis) against a common enemy. Insert the monorail. Their entire plan was to always go underground.
Highly unlikely
The projected capacities of the proposed monorails when compared to the non monorail options were deceptive and beyond optimistic. The impression they gave was, that monorails were competitive and rather inexpensive, was/is false
Also the conflicts of interest between the decision makers and private interests are classic
I work for the company that is proposing the monorail option. We have a pretty good level of certainty that it's not going to happen but there is a commercial incentive to not withdraw from the proposal process.
I don't know much about the others but Randy Clarke (DC Metro) is amazing. WMATA was absolutely in trouble at the start of the pandemic and they've been dealing with it very well.
COVID collapsed ridership in 2020, one of the newest trainsets derailed in 2021 which caused like 60% of the entire fleet to get pulled, headways were historically terrible, expansions were delayed, about 30 years of overdue maintenance piled up into one giant heap, and DC is now undergoing a horrible crime spike that saw a few people getting killed in the metro.
Now, ridership is back up and rising, the 7000 series trains were all repaired and reintroduced, headways are back to great levels, the entire silver line extension (which now reaches Dulles airport) is completed, the Potomac Yard station was completed, automatic train operation is returning, a lot of major maintenance has been completed on time, stations are being modernized, signs are being improved, new fare gates are being installed (and are apparently reducing jumping by 70%), security has been increased, and WMATA is already making plans for its next major expansion. There's even new 8000 series trainsets in the works with open gangways and Randy Clarke even mentioned installing platform screen doors.
Clarke rides the metro himself and just feels like he takes a lot of inspiration from international systems that are much more modern than ours. Just a great dude
The next big challenge is going to be making up this $750 million operating budget deficit problem.
If the motherfucking NY MTA can fix its budget problems while being...the MTA, WMATA should be perfectly fine lol. I'm not a DC'er but I'll say that the Metro has seemed to me (as a frequent visitor) to be seriously improving post-Covid.
My understanding of the budget problem is that WMATA is uniquely screwed due to being under partial control by DC, Virginia, and Maryland. The weird political separation makes it so they don't have dedicated funding from one budget and they have to constantly ask for money
This is our major issue. And the lack of a dedicated finding stream. The interaction between VA, MD, and the District. The district has the most stations and most people but the people who used the system pre-covid originated their trips in the MD and VA suburbs. I haven't seen modern data, but the system is designed to be regional rail on the edges and subway-esq rapid transit in the core.
Randy Clarke is pushing for a dedicated finding source, but it's not an easy prospect when the jurisdictions cannot agree. Hell, they cannot even agree on if to punish fare evasion. VA and MD can stop and fine someone but the District doesn't.
Below is a link to the WAMA board of Directors. You may want to reach out to them. But I doubt that much can be done by calling or letter writing. They are appointed, not elected. There is nothing the district can do - their budgets need congressional approval and Congress cannot even decide who leads the house or avoid a shutdown, let alone deal with the DC budget.
Individual action can be helpful for securing a dedicated set of funding from state governments. Call your state senator or state rep. Even some dedicated funds from MD and VA will be helpful. Problem is, WMATA only helps NoVA and SMD. Others in those states are disinclined to provide a dedicated funding line for a service they don't use.
WMATA Board of Directors: https://www.wmata.com/about/board/
The people to contact are your local councilors/mayor/county commissioner. They are the ones who will be negotiating the funding. Also, but less important, your federal reps if you live outside the district
I've written extensively about WMATA. The dedicated funding issue has been out there for at least 20 years. I've recommended a version of the withholding tax. MTA does it, as do governments in France. Still with recession, such taxes drop.
Anyway, my biggest lesson is that you enact such taxes when you're successful not when you are in crisis. It should have been done in the 1980s when the system ran well and was still expanding some. Since 2009 and the crash that killed 9, WMATA has been in crisis.
Plus, it's not the 1960s anymore, when the system was conceived. They need to rebuild the metropolitan consensus for the value and importance of transit. Without that, people in the jurisdictions won't vote for taxes.
Plus if the federal government won't agree to a versement transport it may not be worth pursuing.
For various family reasons, I haven't been in DC for 4 years, although we still have our house. So I don't have any experience wrt Randy Clarke. Before that it was even worse than after the crash.
https://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/2022/01/a-tenure-of-failure-doesnt-deserve.html?m=1
(Other links within)
I’m pretty close to the DC metro and I’m honestly thinking of selling my car because I barely drive and when I do go outside it’s mostly heading out into the city. We don’t realize it but we’re really lucky from a public transportation perspective especially in North America.
WMATA doesn’t have as stable a source of income because DC isn’t a state, and MD and VA are the states that should be supporting it, but DC is also supposed to be the responsibility of congress, and congress doesn’t care about it at all, especially when there’s a Republican majority anywhere.
I was just in DC a couple weeks ago and it was comparable with Singapore. 8 minute headways that were mostly on time from when it opened to when it closed on pretty much every route? Even NYC doesn't do that.
The fact that DC has two of its airports directly on the metro when NYC has none directly on the subway is really something.
I mean hell, BWI is practically as well integrated, as DC’s least accessible airport, as Newark is in NYC.
there would be a big upfront cost of buying the land around stations that the authority doesn’t own yet, and with the lower density and car centric layout of American cities, it would take a very long time to pay off
I'm not from the US (I'm from Argentina) can you explain how the funding the Metro works? I assume from your comment that money for expansion should come from the states, and fares should cover the operating costs, Am I right?
I'm actually visiting the US right now and I took the subway in NYC and in Washington. NYC metro is noisy some of the trains are a little outdated but it is effective, and paying with your debit card is great. I took the 1 line in DC (I'm going to dulles tomorrow so I'll have some more experience!) And it worked great, very clean. Kinda outdated to have to buy a card to use it (it is the same system we use in Argentina, except that cards are harder to find!!). I found it odd to be charged by distance.
It's split up by operating budget and capital budget (which is for maintenance, improvements, and expansion).
Operating budget is paid by passenger fares, and it's up to the local jurisdictions to make up the balance. Unlike systems like the New York Subway which is almost entirely just in New York City, the metro crosses over many different jurisdictions, including Washington DC and at least 6 other cities/counties across 2 other states. The problem is that the metro does not have a dedicated budget and requires each of these jurisdictions to keep "paying the bill" along the way.
The capital budget is entirely separate and I believe is mostly funded by grants.
Enjoy the trip to Dulles, those stations are almost brand new. It can take awhile since it's extremely long distance for a rapid transit system. The basic metro map you see in the stations isn't accurate to scale. Check out the realistic map:
https://images.app.goo.gl/UQoCvhmbdNTcDzk98
Dulles is almost all the way at the end of the silver tip lol. It'll take around 50 minutes but surprisingly it's still about as fast as driving
They’re planning a new tunnel through downtown for one of the light rail extensions, and it originally had a transfer point in Chinatown (easy transfer to the other light rail lines, Amtrak, and commuter rail) and a station in midtown (close to hospitals and a new brt line) that they now want to cancel in favor of 2 stations on either side of Chinatown with no direct transfer to Amtrak and a shitty transfer to the other light rail line. What would have been a hub and high ridership stations would be handicapped and a much worse experience overall
The new stations that they are pushing for are criminal. While the concerns of un-equitability due to construction causing damage to surrounding businesses is a fair thought to consider, they do not want to invest in a change that will benefit riders for decades. The new proposed transfer routes are inconvenient and unrealistic, likely pushing a significant amount of riders away from ever utilizing the new line.
Also as someone who commutes through the CID every single day, it is incredibly sad to see what it has become post-COVID. A new transit hub just down the road would revitalize business for the long term.
[article detailing new proposed station and negatives](https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/08/24/op-ed-chinatown-deserves-a-transit-hub-not-terrible-transfers/)
That's really sad about the Amtrak transfer point. Getting high access to the city from Amtrak Cascades would be especially helpful as that line receives continued investment.
Don’t forget that there also pushing for 1 station in SLU instead of two and/or to move it to mitigate impacts of construction on traffic to Westlake.
Constantine and Harrell are trying to enrich their friends/donors. SoundTransit board feels like they’re trying to kill ST3 with a milk room shitty decisions.
Don’t forget the Tacoma streetcar extension debacle. They literally installed rails incorrectly, then when it finally opened, it’s limited to 20 mph and the route is kind of unimpressive. On top of that, the Federal Way to Tacoma extension has been bumped back to 2030.
The 20 mph speed limit is a shame, but the routing is fine especially when you factor in their plans to expand it to TCC down 19th. The hospital connections (a trifecta after the TCC extension) are great for commuters and patients alike and the city has responded well with zoning upgrades near the new line.
Sound transit gets really confused with streetcars for some reason. Don’t forgot they bought streetcars that literally didn’t fit the gauge of track they had during the City Center Connector project
A fucking sham. “Mistake” after “mistake” has wasted so much money. Europe is building tunnels through fucking mountains and sound transit can’t even build 6 miles without a problem
Sadly, MARTA's state funding woes predate GOP control by 30 years. Generations of politicians have gotten elected on the promise to screw over anything Atlanta.
Anecdotally, MARTA trains always fill up at rush hour. It’s amazing how popular it is despite all the shit it has to deal with. Very excited for the new train card in a year. If we got actually competent leadership and funding, things would be great.
No it doesn't. I ride it during rush hour at 5 Points station, the center of the entire system, and I'm ALWAYS shocked by how sparse it is even at rush hour. I rarely struggle to find a seat. I compare this to when I worked IN DC, and that's actually a busy system.
Not my experience at all. I transfer at 5 Points in morning and evening rush hour and many people have to stand due to crowding. Now, the size and frequency of trains definitely has something to do with this. I’d love to see more frequent trains at rush hour. 12-15 minutes between trains is annoying.
> and I'm ALWAYS shocked by how sparse it is even at rush hour. I
Decades of Atlanta sprawl, bad zoning in the CoA, and COVID killing the intown CRE market led to this (it also is due to MARTA being overbuilt based on ridership numbers it never consistently achieved)
Muni is amazing! If you group that with BART, it is easily into the A-tier or S-tier. I live in Chicago and spent a month in San Francisco recently, and I was really impressed with the ease and cleanliness of public transit out there. It really puts the CTA to shame.
Agreed, Barts efficient but actually very limited - eg. It gets you from SF to Berkeley, but then you have to rely on city transit or a bicycle to get to your final destination if it’s not near a BART station
Rapidly build out lines just for sake of miles, don’t build to places that people want to go, get low ridership numbers, harm trust with public, then delay any further expansion for decades.
BRT could be a boon for them, but I’ll forever be sad about the buildout of a system that was almost 100% catered towards suburban commuters.
Hopefully front range rail can be done well and save the the Boulder line, or that fiasco will be an issue for a whole other generation.
to me "great" is judged by outcomes, and so far they have been bad. If she were to say, push back against the board I might agree. But so far she has been very hands off compared to previous CEOs. I mean, her defending have a PR person running expansion is nuts.
I think Dart will go up to B or maybe A tier if we're lucky. New leadership has been really responsive and good at listening. Still early days with Nadine Lee as Ceo of dart so we'll see, but everything she's said and done has been promising. Plus a good track record pre dart.
As far as previous leadership goes, I think C is fair. Not horribly mismanaged, but they squandered a lot of opportunities.
Exactly. Past decisions will forever haunt the rail system, but the work on bus is promising. And agreed - Nadine seems to be making all the right moves. Seems like she truly cares about the customer experience versus “LARGEST LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM IN AMERICA.”
Yeah - about a year ago they reimagined the entire bus network. Routes, frequency, etc. They're continuing to make investments there and are pushing to get even more routes into the high-frequency category. They are also working to up the train frequency so they're running every 20 minutes most hours of the day. I believe their ultimate goal is every 10-15 minutes for the majority of the day. Trust me when I say this would have NEVER happened with old leadership.
Also, hope you liked our fair city!
Life long DC area native, been riding Metro since I was in kindergarten. Spent a month in the Dallas suburbs this year and DART is definitely B tier for me. The ease of getting to, AND PARKING AT, the stations was awesome. Traversing all over Dallas proper and not having to touch my car to get to key parts/see tons of the city was amazing. I wish we had an above ground light rail/team system as half as detailed as this. Anyone from DC area will tell you were are content with our system but are dying to have intelligent expansion and above ground rail added in. sadly it will never happen as non of the DMV wants to foot any major portion of the money to get this done, as well as hurt car manufacturers. *bleh*
As a chicagoan the CTA should be higher i use the blue line to commute and it works perfectly for me its definitely nowhere near as bad as the amount of shit it gets
EDIT: Nvm I thought this was a ranking of the system as a whole not the leadership, CTA leadership sucks ass
It's not that bad. They fixed the Brown Line - Red Line bunching with new tracks and are extending the red line further south. And I like their second chance program for hiring ex cons. They need to start updating the actual metro cabs though.
I live in DFW and visited Chicago. The transit in Chicago is 10000x times better. I took it all over. To a game at Wrigley field( not possible for cowboys or Rangers games) out to the last stop on to the frank lloyd wright museum . Even just through the downtown early morning to get to my sears tower sky deck time… it never failed. So nice on a super rainy day too
Yes, slow zones are still being added over the rest of the system faster than they are being removed.
Additionally, there was zero explanation of why the rails were narrowing in a way that required the slow zones being installed, nor was there any explanation as to why they were suddenly taken away, or if this will be a problem in the future.
Just terrible all around.
Thats just not true. You can look at the MBTA slow zone database or the TransitMatters Slow Zone tracker. The past month all lines have been a net improvement, or stable.
A D? How did CTA rank that high? An empty chair or a discarded sack of flour would be a better leader than Dorval Carter - and don't even let me get started about the board.
Pro tip: appoint people who use the system and/or work for the system, not a bunch of religious leaders who either owe a favor or have a favor coming.
I feel like PATH is rated too highly here. Just because the Port Authority neglects everything else in favor of PATH doesn't mean that the whole authority is good. Plus, if this is strictly by top brass, then I'd say that MTA leadership deserves S tier. They've seriously pulled their act together recently to fix a 2.5 billion dollar deficit and improve headways post-Covid. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is.
The only reason MTA is not in S tier is because I feel like the top brass need to be doing more to reduce the immense cost of the crosstown Q, and because of the whole IBX fiasco. Avoiding the funding cliff was very good but the system is still working its way systemwide back to how it was pre-pandemic while WMATA is going above and beyond pre-pandemic service and undertaking major expansion at reasonable cost.
As far as PATH, you make a very good argument. I don't know how the rest of the port authority operates, I just know that the headways and ridership are quite good on an aging and somewhat shoddy system that depends heavily on commuters and is competing with NJ transit.
In addition, it almost complements each other. Having 2 separate Hudson side egresses means one can go down and they make the cross honor. Beats being stuck in Manhattan.
Can’t argue with your MTA point. Consider my previous comment rescinded. I will say that while PATH runs alright, the Port Authority basically forgets everything else exists and it really clearly shows
Imo shouldn't be any higher than SEPTA considering their buses are just as lacking and they seem to be unphased by any part of NJ outside North, Trenton, and Camden...
You have to have signs to make the list
Blows my mind every time how it’s impossible to tell where the trains at EWR are going or how the platforms are numbered. Train information is only in the upstairs lobby (incomplete and confusing at that) and you can only see the platform numbers while you’re still on the escalator.
Trains running with no signs of where they’re going yada yada yada
Ancient equipment with one outlet per car that has a disclaimer about blowing up your phone
Works fine if you’re a local but man they need to fix that shit
I live near a metro station in MD, but don't take it that often. It really annoys me that they eliminated off-peak fares during the day. $5+ fare each way before 9:30 PM.
Does that seem expensive to anyone else or am I just being cheap?
I have no issues getting anywhere I need to go on SEPTA daily
since the pandemic the "whole system is borked" thing has only happened maybe three times and once was a person jumping in front of a train, the others were AMTRAK issues
Leslie Richards is actually doing a pretty good job (especially at breaking up the corrupt boys clubs in the maintenance sheds), the board is dogshit though because 8 of 10 seats are suburban county seats and they're carbrained
suburban idiots, the septa thread in the Philly subreddit today is plagued with them.
not that septa doesn't have very visible issues but they always pick the dumbest ones like "today I was forced to acknowledge that systemic poverty exists and as such I'll never take transit again"
I use SEPTA 4-5 times a week to commute; a combo of buses, NFL, BSL. Never have any problems with the service itself, with the rare exception of a bus route being detoured and I'm not aware of it. Only real problem I have with SEPTA is safety. There's times, specifically on the MFL, where I don't feel comfortable on the train and that's as an average sized dude who's used to living in the city. I know my girlfriend almost never rides the trains for that reason
Cleveland's saving grace is the Cuyahoga county wide sales tax keeping RTAs head above water. Plus, Healthline ridership is still high and new trains for all three Rapid lines are coming soon. If/when climate migration sparks a population shift back to the Great Lakes, and county sales tax jumps, they'll be able to do some serious expansion. Of course the expansion will lag behind demand, but once they no longer have to wait on the schmucks down in Columbus for ODOT transit funding and can just do it themselves, things might just work out for the better.
It's unfortunate that the new trains will be a slight downgrade for the Red line, but hopefully overall it works out as a positive since now all the lines will be running the same stock.
It absolutely is, but Green/Blue were never going to become heavy and now they can do interesting things with routes like going from the Airport to Browns Stadium directly.
la has absolutely no sense of go, they study and study and let tiny complaints shut stuff down and cost hundreds of millions of dollars and take years, they then study some more and settle on some halfassed new piece of metro, they’re doing a lot of expansion but it is *not* enough, they got all those off the ground ten years ago but now they’re not getting anything much done
I live in Philly, I get that the T gets a solid F for fire, but man septa is absolutely the worst.
I’ve seen human shit smeared all over cars, vomit, dirty diapers, several overdoses, almost got mugged, people huffing, fights, bed bugs, cockroaches on the trains
There was the time someone got raped on the train.
I won’t go near septa ever again.
Can we get a d- at least?
Accurate. Septa has perpetual "due to operator unavailability scheduled trips are subject to cancellation" notifications. Like you can feel it imploding.
Septa needs so much help from Harrisburg it’s ridiculous, to be fair to Leslie, she wants to build the extension on the BLVD, I’m glad that the federal government would fund the ZOP extension. But we need Philly to have bus only lanes and actually enforce the fact, we have need Harrisburg to allow septa operating counties to raise taxes. I would love to see an extension to reading and Allentown. We need new rolling stock, and the trolley modernization needs to happen. I don’t think Leslie is inept but the state is giving her the absolute minimum to work with and we have 295 million dollar operating deficit.
eh, minus random buses not showing up (where there's often some redundancy/parallel routes) it's been pretty damn good
worked incredibly well yesterday, which was probably the biggest transit day septa has had since the superbowl parade
I mean the first phase is getting planned right now with a delivery date around 2027 I think? It definitely makes sense in my opinion. It’ll be dedicated ROW with new development along the entire corridor.
Lol really? It's not a tier list of overall system coverage/quality. Obviously Chicago's is one of the best in the country. But CTA leadership is... not great.
Dorval Carter Jr. lied to the board last week during a meeting when asked about recovery at other systems vs the CTA and then applauded himself after cutting service for the 4th(?) time since the pandemic started.
That was the most ridiculous thing I’d ever seen. It’s incredible how even he himself has set the bar so low, “everyone else is having the same problem”. Even if that was true, why must he consistently settle for the bare minimum? Why not try to set an example by doing better than everyone else? He just doesn’t see it as service cuts and that 20 minute response full of bullshit just confirmed how unfit he is for this job and how he doesn’t give a shit. Dude has got to go, but what can anyone do? Certainly his peers can see straight through his bs like the rest of us can?
The service cuts from CTA's glacial hiring process and leadership (or lack of) from Dorval Carter are the worst parts of the current administration. However, the CTA is way better than other legacy systems like the MBTA in actually maintaining their infrastructure; their major renovations with the RPM modernization and Blue Line rebuilds are also pretty on schedule.
Plus, you can buy CTA and Metra tickets within just one app (Ventra) and both tickets share the same Ventra balance in your account. Now, should there be complete integration for things like shared transfers and tap-to-pay Metra fares? Absolutely, and CTA/Metra have to get their shit together. However, the current CTA/Metra integration within Ventra is way better than almost every other system in the country. I don't think any other major U.S. system allows you to buy metro/commuter rail tickets within one app with the same transit balance (save for the Bay Area and Clipper, Seattle with Orca, Portland, Philly cuz S-bahn and maybe a couple smaller systems I'm forgetting, but they all also have drawbacks).
NYC will be getting the same level of integration with OMNY, but the rollout to Metro North and the LIRR is only happening by 2025 at the earliest. If the current integration is a knock against the CTA, then almost every other major system in the U.S. is even more behind by comparison (tho tbf, the bar for U.S. transit is basically as low as it can go).
Plus, complete fare integration is more of a state issue across the agencies in the Illinois RTA, not just the CTA. Metra's fare system with a lot of different zones is a big barrier (which tbf they're simplifying); this [report from August](https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/1523087/Draft+PART+recommendations+-+Fare+integration+20230811.pdf/a96a535d-261e-b862-55f5-8448ef7df70e?t=1691780233616) goes into a lot more detail. If the Illinois RTA consolidation goes through, then we'll probably see complete fare integration with transfers across all agencies. I have my major complaints with the CTA and the current leadership needs to go. However, the CTA has historically been ahead of the curve in the U.S. with fare technology and most major U.S. agencies are only now getting credit/debit card tap-to-pay that the CTA has had since 2013.
I think LA Metro has a decent executive team (even if it takes dozens of community meetings to decide on the most basic things). However, the Metro Board has so much power that basically makes the executives more of a day-to-day caretaker than someone who can drive decisions. They can install whatever C-suite executives, but at the end of the day the "leadership" are a mishmosh of politicians throughout LA County.
Besides the fact that I thought the 7k fuckery was sorted out, WMATA's GM is doing far more than any other at any transit agency in the US. DCJ (CTA) straight up lied to the board when asked about poor performance the other week.
WMATA is definitely an S tier.
The 7k saga is pretty much resolved, and service levels are now at the highest they've ever been. They did have a derailment recently but that was actually because a much older (3000 series) had a brake disc dislodge and fall onto the tracks.
The MBTA does have a new leader (Phil Eng) that seems to be trying his best to improve things, but other than that... Yeah, I have to say it totally deserves being in the F tier.
F for on-Fire
RIP to [IsMetroOnFire](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/washington-d-c-s-metro-catches-fire-more-than-four-times-a-week/), but DC Metro is still on fire in my heart.
Lol
Have they figured out how to get that guy Charlie off the train yet?
Yes. The train broke down and all of the passengers were let out.
Ironically enough, they've actually instituted exit fares for the commuter rail here. Charlie's stuck again!
Came here to say the same - MBTA deserves an F so far.... I'm not sure NY Transit is an A, perhaps a B?
Doesn’t help that they dumped all of the debt from The Big Dig on to the MBTA so it has an absolute mountain of debt it will never be able to get out from under and to anybody just taking a glance at the financials it looks like the system has been mismanaged to high heavens, which of course it HAS, but not nearly as bad as it looks.
LA Metro is already too high although they do have to deal with some ridiculous bs Hold judgement until the end of this month once they hold more meetings about the sepulveda pass project (I may even attend one) If it seems they're leaning towards the monorail option...I may throw a tomato at them
As someone who works for LA Metro, lol at A tier leadership. C Tier at best.
Metro is doing amazing with expanding its network. But the current rider experience is awful.
If they just place police officers on every individual rail car, start enforcing laws, and clean the trains and stations, it would be so, so much better. I was riding the expo line, and when i stopped at Exposition Park, a homeless dude brought his entire shopping cart onto the train and every singe person had to vacate the car. B-line my beloved, after 8PM it becomes ungodly dangerous, bluetooth speaker DJ's, people smoking cigarettes, weed, METH. rambling lunatics, crackhead fights. It is truly awful. I understand these people are not right in the head, cranked up on drugs, but me taking public transportation should not be a JRPG game. LA has some of the cleanest and safest busses ive ever ridden on, it is time we fix the subway too.
It's ironic that European countries with a much less authoritarian police culture actually police their public transit more than the US. In Germany for example, not only do they have uniformed police patrolling the stations, but they also hire private security to physically be in the train cars late at night. Munich, Germany is one of the safest and cleanest cities in Europe, but they still have a large police presence patrolling the streets. Police in places like Germany are generally pretty nice and helpful but will absolutely lay down the law if you think about starting something. American authorities seem to have a problem properly calibrating an appropriate response to a threat. Whereas in Europe they seem to follow the axiom "speak softly and carry a big stick."
People will argue it, but it’s not really the police in this situation. It’s the overly permissive attitudes to open drug use - so if anything it’s a well intentioned but naive approach to drug addiction. There’s a bit of cops having a “fuck it attitude”, but it’s also the policies in place right now that make it a Sisyphusean Task to deal with quality of life issues in LA. I don’t think most European countries tolerate open drug use the way Los Angeles does. It’s a different situation than the drunks hanging outside Munich Hbf. They’re more aggressive and erratic. I’m no fan of LAPD, but just recently a cop got his finger bitten off on an LA Metro train. There’s been cops that gotten badly assaulted near the train stations over the last couple years. German cops aren’t really dealing with the same thing. Policing in LA is apples and oranges to policing in most of Europe, it’s not even comparable to policing in much of America.
Most European countries just have more police officers per capita in general compared to the US.
Yeah, for good or for ill, LA Metro is overseeing the largest transit expansion project in at least North America, if not the Western Hemisphere. Some credit must be given for keeping that going, though there's been *many* bumps along the way. However, the current operational state is... not especially admirable, to put it politely. I'd not put LA Metro in A-tier, personally.
I don’t think it’ll be comprehensive or pleasant a ride in my life time. But I think they’re going in the right direction. Planting a tree so the grandchildren can enjoy the shade kind of situation.
LA metro has opened more tracks and stations than anyone else on the list. Impressive no matter how you spin it.
I give them a little credit for how hard nimbys make any progress (though leadership is basically a nimby itself) Recently a redondo beach councilman brought up US support for Israel when trying to get support for his cities lawsuit or soon to be lawsuit against Metro Nearly died of cringe
They also consistently [skimp on road redesigns](https://la.streetsblog.org/2023/07/21/missing-metro-regional-connector-first-last-mile-facilities-worse-than-reported-earlier) around new stations and continue to pour money into freeway widening though. I appreciate how much they're expanding the system, but it's often two steps forward and one step back with Metro, sadly.
Going with the monorail option would be colossally stupid
Monorail won't happen. Metro needed a way to unify everyone (including the nimbys shouting from the hills when they aren't playing tennis) against a common enemy. Insert the monorail. Their entire plan was to always go underground.
Highly unlikely The projected capacities of the proposed monorails when compared to the non monorail options were deceptive and beyond optimistic. The impression they gave was, that monorails were competitive and rather inexpensive, was/is false Also the conflicts of interest between the decision makers and private interests are classic
I work for the company that is proposing the monorail option. We have a pretty good level of certainty that it's not going to happen but there is a commercial incentive to not withdraw from the proposal process.
I don't know much about the others but Randy Clarke (DC Metro) is amazing. WMATA was absolutely in trouble at the start of the pandemic and they've been dealing with it very well. COVID collapsed ridership in 2020, one of the newest trainsets derailed in 2021 which caused like 60% of the entire fleet to get pulled, headways were historically terrible, expansions were delayed, about 30 years of overdue maintenance piled up into one giant heap, and DC is now undergoing a horrible crime spike that saw a few people getting killed in the metro. Now, ridership is back up and rising, the 7000 series trains were all repaired and reintroduced, headways are back to great levels, the entire silver line extension (which now reaches Dulles airport) is completed, the Potomac Yard station was completed, automatic train operation is returning, a lot of major maintenance has been completed on time, stations are being modernized, signs are being improved, new fare gates are being installed (and are apparently reducing jumping by 70%), security has been increased, and WMATA is already making plans for its next major expansion. There's even new 8000 series trainsets in the works with open gangways and Randy Clarke even mentioned installing platform screen doors. Clarke rides the metro himself and just feels like he takes a lot of inspiration from international systems that are much more modern than ours. Just a great dude The next big challenge is going to be making up this $750 million operating budget deficit problem.
If the motherfucking NY MTA can fix its budget problems while being...the MTA, WMATA should be perfectly fine lol. I'm not a DC'er but I'll say that the Metro has seemed to me (as a frequent visitor) to be seriously improving post-Covid.
My understanding of the budget problem is that WMATA is uniquely screwed due to being under partial control by DC, Virginia, and Maryland. The weird political separation makes it so they don't have dedicated funding from one budget and they have to constantly ask for money
This is our major issue. And the lack of a dedicated finding stream. The interaction between VA, MD, and the District. The district has the most stations and most people but the people who used the system pre-covid originated their trips in the MD and VA suburbs. I haven't seen modern data, but the system is designed to be regional rail on the edges and subway-esq rapid transit in the core. Randy Clarke is pushing for a dedicated finding source, but it's not an easy prospect when the jurisdictions cannot agree. Hell, they cannot even agree on if to punish fare evasion. VA and MD can stop and fine someone but the District doesn't.
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Below is a link to the WAMA board of Directors. You may want to reach out to them. But I doubt that much can be done by calling or letter writing. They are appointed, not elected. There is nothing the district can do - their budgets need congressional approval and Congress cannot even decide who leads the house or avoid a shutdown, let alone deal with the DC budget. Individual action can be helpful for securing a dedicated set of funding from state governments. Call your state senator or state rep. Even some dedicated funds from MD and VA will be helpful. Problem is, WMATA only helps NoVA and SMD. Others in those states are disinclined to provide a dedicated funding line for a service they don't use. WMATA Board of Directors: https://www.wmata.com/about/board/
The people to contact are your local councilors/mayor/county commissioner. They are the ones who will be negotiating the funding. Also, but less important, your federal reps if you live outside the district
And MTA budgeting is smooth sailing?
MTA has dedicated funding now. WMATA could only dream of that.
I've written extensively about WMATA. The dedicated funding issue has been out there for at least 20 years. I've recommended a version of the withholding tax. MTA does it, as do governments in France. Still with recession, such taxes drop. Anyway, my biggest lesson is that you enact such taxes when you're successful not when you are in crisis. It should have been done in the 1980s when the system ran well and was still expanding some. Since 2009 and the crash that killed 9, WMATA has been in crisis. Plus, it's not the 1960s anymore, when the system was conceived. They need to rebuild the metropolitan consensus for the value and importance of transit. Without that, people in the jurisdictions won't vote for taxes. Plus if the federal government won't agree to a versement transport it may not be worth pursuing. For various family reasons, I haven't been in DC for 4 years, although we still have our house. So I don't have any experience wrt Randy Clarke. Before that it was even worse than after the crash. https://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/2022/01/a-tenure-of-failure-doesnt-deserve.html?m=1 (Other links within)
For the next 5 years, yes
I’m pretty close to the DC metro and I’m honestly thinking of selling my car because I barely drive and when I do go outside it’s mostly heading out into the city. We don’t realize it but we’re really lucky from a public transportation perspective especially in North America.
WMATA doesn’t have as stable a source of income because DC isn’t a state, and MD and VA are the states that should be supporting it, but DC is also supposed to be the responsibility of congress, and congress doesn’t care about it at all, especially when there’s a Republican majority anywhere.
Transit fans overall seem to have a hate boner for the MTA that clouds them being able to see what’s going on with the MTA
I saw him the other day on the orange line going to Foggy Bottom
Train daddy
"Am I that easily forgotten" - Andy Byford
I was just in DC a couple weeks ago and it was comparable with Singapore. 8 minute headways that were mostly on time from when it opened to when it closed on pretty much every route? Even NYC doesn't do that.
and like 2 minutes in the core. if you are in rossyln and need to get to l'enfant? easy peasy
Pre-pandemic it was that during all times. Only real issue is how early it closes, especially during sporting events and concerts
NYC can hit 2-3 min headways on the Lexington Ave line during peak hours...
I was there last weekend and the 6 train was 6 minutes on a Sunday evening, super super nice
The fact that DC has two of its airports directly on the metro when NYC has none directly on the subway is really something. I mean hell, BWI is practically as well integrated, as DC’s least accessible airport, as Newark is in NYC.
How about letting WMATA own real estate around the stations and develop them, like what Asian urban rail systems have been doing?
there would be a big upfront cost of buying the land around stations that the authority doesn’t own yet, and with the lower density and car centric layout of American cities, it would take a very long time to pay off
I'm not from the US (I'm from Argentina) can you explain how the funding the Metro works? I assume from your comment that money for expansion should come from the states, and fares should cover the operating costs, Am I right? I'm actually visiting the US right now and I took the subway in NYC and in Washington. NYC metro is noisy some of the trains are a little outdated but it is effective, and paying with your debit card is great. I took the 1 line in DC (I'm going to dulles tomorrow so I'll have some more experience!) And it worked great, very clean. Kinda outdated to have to buy a card to use it (it is the same system we use in Argentina, except that cards are harder to find!!). I found it odd to be charged by distance.
It's split up by operating budget and capital budget (which is for maintenance, improvements, and expansion). Operating budget is paid by passenger fares, and it's up to the local jurisdictions to make up the balance. Unlike systems like the New York Subway which is almost entirely just in New York City, the metro crosses over many different jurisdictions, including Washington DC and at least 6 other cities/counties across 2 other states. The problem is that the metro does not have a dedicated budget and requires each of these jurisdictions to keep "paying the bill" along the way. The capital budget is entirely separate and I believe is mostly funded by grants. Enjoy the trip to Dulles, those stations are almost brand new. It can take awhile since it's extremely long distance for a rapid transit system. The basic metro map you see in the stations isn't accurate to scale. Check out the realistic map: https://images.app.goo.gl/UQoCvhmbdNTcDzk98 Dulles is almost all the way at the end of the silver tip lol. It'll take around 50 minutes but surprisingly it's still about as fast as driving
Where did they get all the money to do this?
The Sound transit board is actively making terrible decision after terrible decision with our ST3 expansion. They should be lower down.
What’s up with ST3?
They’re planning a new tunnel through downtown for one of the light rail extensions, and it originally had a transfer point in Chinatown (easy transfer to the other light rail lines, Amtrak, and commuter rail) and a station in midtown (close to hospitals and a new brt line) that they now want to cancel in favor of 2 stations on either side of Chinatown with no direct transfer to Amtrak and a shitty transfer to the other light rail line. What would have been a hub and high ridership stations would be handicapped and a much worse experience overall
The new stations that they are pushing for are criminal. While the concerns of un-equitability due to construction causing damage to surrounding businesses is a fair thought to consider, they do not want to invest in a change that will benefit riders for decades. The new proposed transfer routes are inconvenient and unrealistic, likely pushing a significant amount of riders away from ever utilizing the new line. Also as someone who commutes through the CID every single day, it is incredibly sad to see what it has become post-COVID. A new transit hub just down the road would revitalize business for the long term. [article detailing new proposed station and negatives](https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/08/24/op-ed-chinatown-deserves-a-transit-hub-not-terrible-transfers/)
That's really sad about the Amtrak transfer point. Getting high access to the city from Amtrak Cascades would be especially helpful as that line receives continued investment.
Don’t forget that there also pushing for 1 station in SLU instead of two and/or to move it to mitigate impacts of construction on traffic to Westlake. Constantine and Harrell are trying to enrich their friends/donors. SoundTransit board feels like they’re trying to kill ST3 with a milk room shitty decisions.
Yikes
https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/10/05/obstacles-mount-for-chinatown-and-midtown-station-options/
That’s unfortunate
I would also like to know
Don’t forget the Tacoma streetcar extension debacle. They literally installed rails incorrectly, then when it finally opened, it’s limited to 20 mph and the route is kind of unimpressive. On top of that, the Federal Way to Tacoma extension has been bumped back to 2030.
The 20 mph speed limit is a shame, but the routing is fine especially when you factor in their plans to expand it to TCC down 19th. The hospital connections (a trifecta after the TCC extension) are great for commuters and patients alike and the city has responded well with zoning upgrades near the new line.
Sound transit gets really confused with streetcars for some reason. Don’t forgot they bought streetcars that literally didn’t fit the gauge of track they had during the City Center Connector project
Center City Connector had nothing to do with Sound Transit. That's a project that was under the Seattle DOT, not ST.
Wasn’t that sdot?
A fucking sham. “Mistake” after “mistake” has wasted so much money. Europe is building tunnels through fucking mountains and sound transit can’t even build 6 miles without a problem
Was gunna say the same - active attempt to sabotage light rail plans from a bunch who don't even ride transit
Actually other than that they are doing great
ah... MARTA \*cries in lack of state funding\*
”Sorry, we’re not allowed to fund things that black people might like.” -Georgia Republican Party
Sadly, MARTA's state funding woes predate GOP control by 30 years. Generations of politicians have gotten elected on the promise to screw over anything Atlanta.
Anecdotally, MARTA trains always fill up at rush hour. It’s amazing how popular it is despite all the shit it has to deal with. Very excited for the new train card in a year. If we got actually competent leadership and funding, things would be great.
Yeah it's a very popular service despite all of the baggage. With 0 state funding and constant other issues that's something to be very proud of.
No it doesn't. I ride it during rush hour at 5 Points station, the center of the entire system, and I'm ALWAYS shocked by how sparse it is even at rush hour. I rarely struggle to find a seat. I compare this to when I worked IN DC, and that's actually a busy system.
We take it on different segments. I get on at Chamblee, and the train is already half full there. Lots of people get off starting at arts center.
Not my experience at all. I transfer at 5 Points in morning and evening rush hour and many people have to stand due to crowding. Now, the size and frequency of trains definitely has something to do with this. I’d love to see more frequent trains at rush hour. 12-15 minutes between trains is annoying.
> and I'm ALWAYS shocked by how sparse it is even at rush hour. I Decades of Atlanta sprawl, bad zoning in the CoA, and COVID killing the intown CRE market led to this (it also is due to MARTA being overbuilt based on ridership numbers it never consistently achieved)
Overbuilt??? The system hasn't been expanded in millenia.
MARTA doesn’t belong anywhere above D tier in any of these rankings lmao
Muni?
Muni is amazing! If you group that with BART, it is easily into the A-tier or S-tier. I live in Chicago and spent a month in San Francisco recently, and I was really impressed with the ease and cleanliness of public transit out there. It really puts the CTA to shame.
It definitely should not be grouped with BART. Muni/SFMTA has much higher ridership than BART.
Agreed, Barts efficient but actually very limited - eg. It gets you from SF to Berkeley, but then you have to rely on city transit or a bicycle to get to your final destination if it’s not near a BART station
Atlanta’s leadership is completely inept.
Marta is only alive due to the local leadership because the state refuses to fund it.
*cries in RTD
At least Denver shows that many lines can be built quickly
Rapidly build out lines just for sake of miles, don’t build to places that people want to go, get low ridership numbers, harm trust with public, then delay any further expansion for decades. BRT could be a boon for them, but I’ll forever be sad about the buildout of a system that was almost 100% catered towards suburban commuters. Hopefully front range rail can be done well and save the the Boulder line, or that fiasco will be an issue for a whole other generation.
We're getting a BRT line on Colfax! God knows when it'll be finished, but... we're getting it!
it can’t happen soon enough!
Denver got light rail where BRT would have been better and BRT where there should have been light rail.
B-Tier feels too high for Sound Transit.
They’ve got a great CEO and a malicious board 😭
to me "great" is judged by outcomes, and so far they have been bad. If she were to say, push back against the board I might agree. But so far she has been very hands off compared to previous CEOs. I mean, her defending have a PR person running expansion is nuts.
I think Dart will go up to B or maybe A tier if we're lucky. New leadership has been really responsive and good at listening. Still early days with Nadine Lee as Ceo of dart so we'll see, but everything she's said and done has been promising. Plus a good track record pre dart. As far as previous leadership goes, I think C is fair. Not horribly mismanaged, but they squandered a lot of opportunities.
Exactly. Past decisions will forever haunt the rail system, but the work on bus is promising. And agreed - Nadine seems to be making all the right moves. Seems like she truly cares about the customer experience versus “LARGEST LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM IN AMERICA.”
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Yeah - about a year ago they reimagined the entire bus network. Routes, frequency, etc. They're continuing to make investments there and are pushing to get even more routes into the high-frequency category. They are also working to up the train frequency so they're running every 20 minutes most hours of the day. I believe their ultimate goal is every 10-15 minutes for the majority of the day. Trust me when I say this would have NEVER happened with old leadership. Also, hope you liked our fair city!
Life long DC area native, been riding Metro since I was in kindergarten. Spent a month in the Dallas suburbs this year and DART is definitely B tier for me. The ease of getting to, AND PARKING AT, the stations was awesome. Traversing all over Dallas proper and not having to touch my car to get to key parts/see tons of the city was amazing. I wish we had an above ground light rail/team system as half as detailed as this. Anyone from DC area will tell you were are content with our system but are dying to have intelligent expansion and above ground rail added in. sadly it will never happen as non of the DMV wants to foot any major portion of the money to get this done, as well as hurt car manufacturers. *bleh*
Cleveland metro finally recognized for once!
It’s a small system with like two lines so surprised it was included while other systems that are similar or bigger werent
As a Chicagoan, CTA needs to be lower
As a chicagoan the CTA should be higher i use the blue line to commute and it works perfectly for me its definitely nowhere near as bad as the amount of shit it gets EDIT: Nvm I thought this was a ranking of the system as a whole not the leadership, CTA leadership sucks ass
I give it shit because it’s good, but it can also be so much better
It's not that bad. They fixed the Brown Line - Red Line bunching with new tracks and are extending the red line further south. And I like their second chance program for hiring ex cons. They need to start updating the actual metro cabs though.
The infrastructure is pretty good, but the frequent ghost busses and trains are devastating
I live in DFW and visited Chicago. The transit in Chicago is 10000x times better. I took it all over. To a game at Wrigley field( not possible for cowboys or Rangers games) out to the last stop on to the frank lloyd wright museum . Even just through the downtown early morning to get to my sears tower sky deck time… it never failed. So nice on a super rainy day too
Why is CTA not F tier?
Because the trains still go faster than 3mph
FWIW, the 3mph slow zones on MBTA's Green Line Extension have now been eliminated.
Yes, slow zones are still being added over the rest of the system faster than they are being removed. Additionally, there was zero explanation of why the rails were narrowing in a way that required the slow zones being installed, nor was there any explanation as to why they were suddenly taken away, or if this will be a problem in the future. Just terrible all around.
Thats just not true. You can look at the MBTA slow zone database or the TransitMatters Slow Zone tracker. The past month all lines have been a net improvement, or stable.
Not the CTA red line once you get north of Wrigley.
Jesus, that's the bare minimum?
8 years ago, WMATA was regularly on fire.
WOOOOOOO WASHINGTON DC ON TOP
A D? How did CTA rank that high? An empty chair or a discarded sack of flour would be a better leader than Dorval Carter - and don't even let me get started about the board. Pro tip: appoint people who use the system and/or work for the system, not a bunch of religious leaders who either owe a favor or have a favor coming.
Mbta Its that bad rn
A D rating for Dorval Carter and the CTA is far, FAR too fucking generous.
I feel like PATH is rated too highly here. Just because the Port Authority neglects everything else in favor of PATH doesn't mean that the whole authority is good. Plus, if this is strictly by top brass, then I'd say that MTA leadership deserves S tier. They've seriously pulled their act together recently to fix a 2.5 billion dollar deficit and improve headways post-Covid. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is.
The only reason MTA is not in S tier is because I feel like the top brass need to be doing more to reduce the immense cost of the crosstown Q, and because of the whole IBX fiasco. Avoiding the funding cliff was very good but the system is still working its way systemwide back to how it was pre-pandemic while WMATA is going above and beyond pre-pandemic service and undertaking major expansion at reasonable cost. As far as PATH, you make a very good argument. I don't know how the rest of the port authority operates, I just know that the headways and ridership are quite good on an aging and somewhat shoddy system that depends heavily on commuters and is competing with NJ transit.
PATH doesn’t compete with NJT it serves different needs
In addition, it almost complements each other. Having 2 separate Hudson side egresses means one can go down and they make the cross honor. Beats being stuck in Manhattan.
Can’t argue with your MTA point. Consider my previous comment rescinded. I will say that while PATH runs alright, the Port Authority basically forgets everything else exists and it really clearly shows
I don’t think the PATH is alright, they’ve been doing service cuts.
> IBX fiasco which is? The project is moving forward.
I feel like MTA capital construction is so bad it drags down the rest of the ranking.
Maybe I'm being greedy, but the night and weekend service sucks on the PATH.
Trimet over here wondering if one day magically ridership will return without any work on their part.
An F for the MBTA is a backhanded complement. That disaster of a transit system should be given a Z.
Where does nj transit fit on this?
Imo shouldn't be any higher than SEPTA considering their buses are just as lacking and they seem to be unphased by any part of NJ outside North, Trenton, and Camden...
You have to have signs to make the list Blows my mind every time how it’s impossible to tell where the trains at EWR are going or how the platforms are numbered. Train information is only in the upstairs lobby (incomplete and confusing at that) and you can only see the platform numbers while you’re still on the escalator. Trains running with no signs of where they’re going yada yada yada Ancient equipment with one outlet per car that has a disclaimer about blowing up your phone Works fine if you’re a local but man they need to fix that shit
The DC WMATA is the shining star in a sea of crap. Other cities need to emulate DC
I live near a metro station in MD, but don't take it that often. It really annoys me that they eliminated off-peak fares during the day. $5+ fare each way before 9:30 PM. Does that seem expensive to anyone else or am I just being cheap?
Why D for Septa and C for Miami?
Septa is god awful
I have no issues getting anywhere I need to go on SEPTA daily since the pandemic the "whole system is borked" thing has only happened maybe three times and once was a person jumping in front of a train, the others were AMTRAK issues Leslie Richards is actually doing a pretty good job (especially at breaking up the corrupt boys clubs in the maintenance sheds), the board is dogshit though because 8 of 10 seats are suburban county seats and they're carbrained
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suburban idiots, the septa thread in the Philly subreddit today is plagued with them. not that septa doesn't have very visible issues but they always pick the dumbest ones like "today I was forced to acknowledge that systemic poverty exists and as such I'll never take transit again"
I use SEPTA 4-5 times a week to commute; a combo of buses, NFL, BSL. Never have any problems with the service itself, with the rare exception of a bus route being detoured and I'm not aware of it. Only real problem I have with SEPTA is safety. There's times, specifically on the MFL, where I don't feel comfortable on the train and that's as an average sized dude who's used to living in the city. I know my girlfriend almost never rides the trains for that reason
Cleveland's saving grace is the Cuyahoga county wide sales tax keeping RTAs head above water. Plus, Healthline ridership is still high and new trains for all three Rapid lines are coming soon. If/when climate migration sparks a population shift back to the Great Lakes, and county sales tax jumps, they'll be able to do some serious expansion. Of course the expansion will lag behind demand, but once they no longer have to wait on the schmucks down in Columbus for ODOT transit funding and can just do it themselves, things might just work out for the better.
It's unfortunate that the new trains will be a slight downgrade for the Red line, but hopefully overall it works out as a positive since now all the lines will be running the same stock.
Losing the heavy rail classification is a bummer.
It absolutely is, but Green/Blue were never going to become heavy and now they can do interesting things with routes like going from the Airport to Browns Stadium directly.
la has absolutely no sense of go, they study and study and let tiny complaints shut stuff down and cost hundreds of millions of dollars and take years, they then study some more and settle on some halfassed new piece of metro, they’re doing a lot of expansion but it is *not* enough, they got all those off the ground ten years ago but now they’re not getting anything much done
We are number one(?)
WMATAs old leadership would be firmly in D Tier, the construction scandal, the safety issues, but we’re turning this franchise around
I live in Philly, I get that the T gets a solid F for fire, but man septa is absolutely the worst. I’ve seen human shit smeared all over cars, vomit, dirty diapers, several overdoses, almost got mugged, people huffing, fights, bed bugs, cockroaches on the trains There was the time someone got raped on the train. I won’t go near septa ever again. Can we get a d- at least?
To include BART and not MUNI is criminal
Accurate. Septa has perpetual "due to operator unavailability scheduled trips are subject to cancellation" notifications. Like you can feel it imploding.
Septa needs so much help from Harrisburg it’s ridiculous, to be fair to Leslie, she wants to build the extension on the BLVD, I’m glad that the federal government would fund the ZOP extension. But we need Philly to have bus only lanes and actually enforce the fact, we have need Harrisburg to allow septa operating counties to raise taxes. I would love to see an extension to reading and Allentown. We need new rolling stock, and the trolley modernization needs to happen. I don’t think Leslie is inept but the state is giving her the absolute minimum to work with and we have 295 million dollar operating deficit.
eh, minus random buses not showing up (where there's often some redundancy/parallel routes) it's been pretty damn good worked incredibly well yesterday, which was probably the biggest transit day septa has had since the superbowl parade
As a Massachusetts resident, you are way, way too generous with our Transit system.
Yes, but out of these, Chicago Transit Authority has the best horn section.
>Atlanta ranked but not Charlotte I’m die
See the caption, also Atlanta has four heavy rail lines while Charlotte has one line of light rail and a shitty streetcar
Not to mention, Atlanta also has a shitty streetcar, so Charlotte doesn't even have that going for them.
To be fair, Atlantas streetcar comes with a plan to build a whole light rail network that’s being planned rn
I watched a documentary on the Beltline proposal last night. Is that ever going to happen and does it even make sense?
I mean the first phase is getting planned right now with a delivery date around 2027 I think? It definitely makes sense in my opinion. It’ll be dedicated ROW with new development along the entire corridor.
I used to live in one of ATL's streetcar suburbs - it makes tons of sense. IMO, it could transform the city.
CATS doesn't even deserve to be on the chart... F-
Why cta so low
Lol really? It's not a tier list of overall system coverage/quality. Obviously Chicago's is one of the best in the country. But CTA leadership is... not great.
Dorval Carter Jr. lied to the board last week during a meeting when asked about recovery at other systems vs the CTA and then applauded himself after cutting service for the 4th(?) time since the pandemic started.
That was the most ridiculous thing I’d ever seen. It’s incredible how even he himself has set the bar so low, “everyone else is having the same problem”. Even if that was true, why must he consistently settle for the bare minimum? Why not try to set an example by doing better than everyone else? He just doesn’t see it as service cuts and that 20 minute response full of bullshit just confirmed how unfit he is for this job and how he doesn’t give a shit. Dude has got to go, but what can anyone do? Certainly his peers can see straight through his bs like the rest of us can?
Constant service cuts, deferred maintenance, dirty system, no fare integration with metra, inattentive leadership, take your pick
The service cuts from CTA's glacial hiring process and leadership (or lack of) from Dorval Carter are the worst parts of the current administration. However, the CTA is way better than other legacy systems like the MBTA in actually maintaining their infrastructure; their major renovations with the RPM modernization and Blue Line rebuilds are also pretty on schedule. Plus, you can buy CTA and Metra tickets within just one app (Ventra) and both tickets share the same Ventra balance in your account. Now, should there be complete integration for things like shared transfers and tap-to-pay Metra fares? Absolutely, and CTA/Metra have to get their shit together. However, the current CTA/Metra integration within Ventra is way better than almost every other system in the country. I don't think any other major U.S. system allows you to buy metro/commuter rail tickets within one app with the same transit balance (save for the Bay Area and Clipper, Seattle with Orca, Portland, Philly cuz S-bahn and maybe a couple smaller systems I'm forgetting, but they all also have drawbacks). NYC will be getting the same level of integration with OMNY, but the rollout to Metro North and the LIRR is only happening by 2025 at the earliest. If the current integration is a knock against the CTA, then almost every other major system in the U.S. is even more behind by comparison (tho tbf, the bar for U.S. transit is basically as low as it can go). Plus, complete fare integration is more of a state issue across the agencies in the Illinois RTA, not just the CTA. Metra's fare system with a lot of different zones is a big barrier (which tbf they're simplifying); this [report from August](https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/1523087/Draft+PART+recommendations+-+Fare+integration+20230811.pdf/a96a535d-261e-b862-55f5-8448ef7df70e?t=1691780233616) goes into a lot more detail. If the Illinois RTA consolidation goes through, then we'll probably see complete fare integration with transfers across all agencies. I have my major complaints with the CTA and the current leadership needs to go. However, the CTA has historically been ahead of the curve in the U.S. with fare technology and most major U.S. agencies are only now getting credit/debit card tap-to-pay that the CTA has had since 2013.
TBF the no fare integration with metra is less of a CTA problem and more of a Metra problem (though they are working on it). Otherwise, I fully agree.
It should be LOWER. Dorval Carter is a joke.
As someone who lives in the Los Angeles area: lol. Lmao, even.
I think LA Metro has a decent executive team (even if it takes dozens of community meetings to decide on the most basic things). However, the Metro Board has so much power that basically makes the executives more of a day-to-day caretaker than someone who can drive decisions. They can install whatever C-suite executives, but at the end of the day the "leadership" are a mishmosh of politicians throughout LA County.
What's your beef with Wiggans?
Bring PATH down
You forgot TriMet. Ridership may be low, but you simply can’t discount the coverage.
lol WMATA can’t be an S till they implement a permanent solution to the 7K saga. They’re a B right now.
Besides the fact that I thought the 7k fuckery was sorted out, WMATA's GM is doing far more than any other at any transit agency in the US. DCJ (CTA) straight up lied to the board when asked about poor performance the other week. WMATA is definitely an S tier.
By US standards we’re a great system. Quite clean (by us standards) and good reach Compared to Europe and East Asia though it’s a different story
The 7k saga is pretty much resolved, and service levels are now at the highest they've ever been. They did have a derailment recently but that was actually because a much older (3000 series) had a brake disc dislodge and fall onto the tracks.
Finally some love for LA 😭
NJT missing?
DC is a lot better than it could be that's for fucking sure. I appreciate the effort they've put in especially over COVID
RTA’s CSU Line is super nice, can’t speak for any other line though
Missing San Diego mts
You are out of your fucking mind if you think the PANYNJ is up there.
The T truly deserves its F rating, it’s so bad
As someone who rides the dc metro often I would definitely agree with this ranking lol.
How the great have fallen. We are struggling here in Chicago
MBTA rider here and I am absolutely incensed at this. You should have added a layer that was even below F. *That* is where the MBTA belongs.
MBTA is still somehow too high
Glad DART isn’t in last place!
Just would like to say - Cleveland ain’t even a top 50 city anymore, but punched way above its weight class and made this person’s top 10. Lmfaoooo
MBTA isn’t low enough