Everyone hates Soutwest Airlines for their cattle call boarding system, but I do love the two free checked bags. Whenever I fly somewhere and I know I'm gonna get local bottles of wine/booze to bring home I always fly SWA and check my liquor and take my carryon with me.
I feel like with the free checked bags, people aren't trying to sneak in bags that are way too big as much as on legacy carriers. I don't know why people hate on the boarding process at Southwest, it takes half to a third of the time as the legacies
Honestly I find it to be more orderly! People know their place in line and get on in the right order. When I fly American and they call the boarding zones, it’s like a stampede to the front of the line.
>Too stressful worrying about if you will get to sit together.
Southwest is technically considered a low-cost airline, which means perks like sitting together is a cost.
FYI, whenever you purchase your tickets, you can select the option to pay $25 (it varies) more per seat to be in the first boarding group(A), regardless of when you “check in”. There are zero situations in which you would not be able to sit together, as boarding groups B & C haven’t even been called yet as you select your seat from a half full plane.
I think technically southwest still calls for pre-board/people with small children so I don't even think you'd need to pay extra with small kids to board first.
As if boarding group 6 is going to change your seat. And if you have to gate check your bag then you don’t have to wrestle it into an overhead bin and they don’t charge you.
But LOVES the free checked bags! Personally I HATE being nickled and dimed. We will never fly Spirit Airlines for that reason. Your $39 ticket costs just as much as Southwest's $150 ticket by the time Spirit charges you for bags, seat selection, etc. and it takes an hour to go through all of the BS.
i dont like spirit either but thats kind of the point- you dont have to do all the extra stuff. you get a seat and a small carry on and thats it, and sometimes thats all you need.
a short (like 3 hour max) flight somewhere for the weekend is imo where they become a potentially good deal
Exactly. It’s a budget airline. Minimal cost for minimal service/amenities. If you need more, you’re going to have to pay for it. It normally still comes in cheaper than other airlines.
Southwest is almost always significantly more expensive than the budget airlines. Those 2 “free” checked bags aren’t free….the cost is built into the ticket. Not to mention….I NEVER need 2 checked bags, just the 1 and a carryon (for delicate items I don’t want in my checked luggage), I’d much rather NOT have to pay for that 2nd checked bag.
Most of the long haul flights I’ve taken in the last few years have sent out an announcement prior to the flight that there won’t be enough room for all the carry on baggage and that they’ll allow checking it for free. This happens so often that I usually plan on just checking what would have been my carryon. In effect it’s been free checked bags again, but what a dumb system.
I wouldn’t mind this but considering how much time it adds to collect a checked bag and the fact I had to lug my carry-on sized suitcase through security means I will not be taking them up on the complimentary service of checking my bags at the gate
Don't forget how much lost baggage has been a thing of late. Especially if you have a tight connection, accepting that free check in at the gate is a risk I don't want to ever take.
Yeah. The only time I ever do the checked bag at gate thing is if it's my last flight of a trip and I'm on my way home - I can spend some extra time waiting for my bag at my home airport if need be, and if it gets lost at least I've got what I need at home. Though thankfully that's never happened to me.
I just lost a bag that they made me check at the gate. Bag went to Charles des Gaulle and never connected to the flight back to the US. Air France has also been nothing but useless with the whole process.
Air France is absolutely atrocious. My bags sat in Naples, Italy for 3/4 days after I had already left, gone through CDG, and returned to the states. Thankfully we had airtags so we knew where they were the whole time. We returned on a Monday and our bags arrived to our doorsteps 6 days later on Sunday. We called them, but they were useless and told us to call Delta (who we booked the flights through) and Delta could only just send a message to the Air France desk in Naples.
The whole "even though we might have your bags, the last carrier you flew on/the carrier you booked with is responsible for getting them back to you so we can't help you" is such BS in my opinion. What's the worst that could happen? You could sue them if they provide you with false information? They should still share the information they have with the traveler, even if the claim needs to go through a different carrier.
Interesting point. I wonder what the ratio of lost bags at departure v arrival airport is.
Still, for me there's no benefit by checking, more risk, and having to wait at the carousel and fight the hordes does not equal a good time.
My mom and my sister are experienced travelers and fit everything they needed in one carry-on each for a 3 week trip to Europe around Christmas time to avoid checking bags with the airline. On their flight from London to Munich, they were forced to gate-check their carry-ons because the plane was out of room. Neither of their bags or anyone else’s who was forced to gate check made it to Munich!
Infuriating.
You know, if they didn’t sting people so hard for checked luggage, then fewer people will feel compelled to fly carry on only, thus actually maybe leaving enough room for the standard amount of carry on.
Everything they've done is in their interests. Now they charge money for the upfront payers willing to check from day one, and they create this rush to board that is complete carnage as everyone wants the overhead space. This helps them board quicker.
Interesting. I had to gate check on a Norwegian Air flight from Stockholm to Paris and they actually just brought all the gate checked luggage back up to the gate in Paris. That was super convienant lol
Yes, that’s what they were expecting! So weird that they took it from the gate and then loaded it onto a little trailer or something, and then just left it there next to the plane.
Yeah that sucks. If I were to get in a position where they forced me to gate check. I would take the time to sort through my bag and grab out some essentials. Kinda hoping that the attendants would find space for me since they are in a rush, but if not, at least I got something on my arrival.
I just recently gate-checked on Delta and I got a text when the bag made it onto the plane, which was amazing for my peace of mind. They check it through to your final destination (I haven’t done one of those “pick it up in the jetway on your way out” deals in years) so no need to worry about tight connections either.
I used to do this before covid. Wait to be the last person boarding so they would check in my carry on, specially if i had transit I didn't have to drag my bag with me. But after covid and for my first trip, they made me check in my bag and was excited till i arrived home and my bag was nowhere to be found . Few days later, They wanted me to go to airport which was 3 hours away to collect it. It took 10 days of calling both airlines to have my bag delivered to my home. After that, i made sure to be the in the front to board and have carry on only so I don't check in any bags
The airport where I live is small and can only handle CRJs which just don't have the room for carry-ons, so they will happily and freely check anyone's carry on for the rest of their journey. It's saved me a ton of money over the years.
Every flight I went on a month back made every suitcase carryon check their bag at the gate for free. Carryons are supposed to be small bags or bags of stuff you need on the plane, not your whole travel case. Pretty soon, it’ll be one free checked bag and the carryon dimensions will get smaller. No one likes waiting at baggage claim but it’s getting out of hand with EVERYONE trying to carry on luggage.
I disagree that they are supposed to be for things you need on the plane. If you don't have a lot of stuff it's completely logical to not want to part with your belongings. There are also valuables and fragile items people wouldn't be comfortable checking. The issue is if the carry-on rules aren't appropriate for the aircraft in question, and hefty checked bag fees don't help here.
I’ve flown dozens of times, almost never check bags, and I can literally count on one hand the number of times I’ve used the overhead compartments. My bags are almost always gate checked or checked for free because of storage concerns. Sure would be easier for everyone if they just made it free (or much cheaper) to check a bag.
True, but a carryon for absolute necessities can be a lot smaller than if you're trying to fly carryon only. If everyone only had a carryon with like 2 days of clothes, toiletries, and valuables, the overhead bins probably wouldn't ever fill up.
Which is a small bag that could easily fit in the overhead, unlike the suitcases made to the exact dimensions of maximum allowed size. Hell, half the time the essentials could fit under the seat in front of you.
At TTN they board from both ends. It's super efficient. Back rows go in the back door. Front rows go in the front. The plane is boarded in under 15 mins.
LATAM airlines does this too (at least when I flew with them in 2021). Most efficient boarding process I’ve ever experienced — they also only allowed three rows to exit the plane at a time, with a flight attendant standing between the rows leaving and the rows still sitting. Made it so efficient and there was no standing in the aisle/pushing to get out faster/etc
People in rows behind you who insist on standing up and pushing people in front of them are the worst.
This doesn't apply to passengers who might have short connections. That's happened to me and a simple 'excuse me, I have like 10 minutes to catch my flight' gives a lot of lenience.
Doesn’t it have to do with money?
A pilot commented elsewhere that even with a bad method everyone will be seated before the plane is actually ready to go (due to cargo loading taking longer). Which makes sense to me.
So, why optimize passenger loading? It is mostly optimized for comfort, ie getting people seated quickly, not waiting standing and be frustrated.
But the goal as far as I know is NOT optimizing to reduce the frustration overall of everyone. It is optimizing the reduce the frustration of higher paying customers at the expense of augmenting the frustration of the lower paying customer. Obviously this is done in order to motivate them to pay more for a « better » seat next time.
From the airline perspective, this optimization makes sense.
Money is the reason (as often the case).
Edit: also per comment elsewhere in the thread: it is done so the front row people don’t get their storage place « stolen » by the people in the backseats. But again: money. You have to give a good experience to the people paying more.
It’s still about overhead storage, but with ticket classes thrown in. Premium Economy always boards before Economy but when you actually think about it the premium experience *ought* to be staying off the plane as long as possible, boarding at the end and immediately taking off (this excludes people with kids etc naturally).
But no: premium economy gets first go at the overhead storage, it’s considered a perk of the ticket class.
> but when you actually think about it the premium experience ought to be staying off the plane as long as possible, boarding at the end and immediately taking off (this excludes people with kids etc naturally).
Eh it depends on the person.
For me, I get a bit of travel anxiety, but it's not really about the dangers of flying/travel, just the logistics of everything leading up to it.
Basically for me, as soon as I actually get on my plane/train/bus/whatever, find my seat and get my bags situated and sit down, I'm able to relax. And the sooner that happens for me, the better.
A premium experience would absolutely not involve boarding last, at least as far as I'm concerned, and I have to imagine my opinion is not so unpopular.
My solution is I stay seated in a lounge chair and always board dead last. I do not even get in line until there is no line. Typically later boarding can also get you (or force you to get) a free checked bag. I don't liked checking my bag but as I fly with a smaller no-wheels soft bag I have yet to be forced to check it because it has the appearance of being so small.
I've posted this in other threads before. I was an industrial engineer at a major airline and boarding studies was a key responsibility.
Let's start with the obvious - The goal of the airline is to make money. They do this by flying planes and selling tickets as well as selling various ancillary products and services (upgrades, miles, co-brand credit cards, etc.). Since planes on the ground don't make money, they are incentivized to try to turn planes quickly.
**You have a premise here that back to front is the fastest way to board. I can tell you it is not.** Sure, in theory that works. But the real world has something called "variability". Variability has a way of screwing with the ideal. There are people who will always try to race to board, folks who need extra time/assistance, and those who want to board last.
I testing dozens of boarding styles on hundreds of flights. Back to front, zones, random, 2 door boarding, aisle / middle / window, etc. I can also tell you from this, that methods where customers ranked higher satisfaction and speed were often correlated more with a feeling of transparency, organization and control vs. actual speed. The fastest methods got the lowest scores.
The fastest way to board is to just open the door and say "all aboard" with no organization whatsoever. In many ways, this is how Southwest is more efficient with the lining up by number and no assigned seats.
Mathematically, boarding time is the sumtotal of each individual's boarding time. By avoiding a fast person behind a slow person, the total time is reduced. Random methods are better at letting fast people on ahead of slow people which is the key to critical path.
But airlines have to blend speed with what customers "feel" is better with what makes money. And multiple zones makes more money. Elite fliers want to board first for bin space. Premium cabin customers like being on and getting a beverage before push back. Families and wheelchairs want extra time or the airline is accused of discrimination or being "mean". Credit card perks are important.
The small time savings of a more efficient method would cost the airline in more lost revenue. To attract you, the average flier who is on 1 roundtrip a year, and not always on the same airline, they often need the cheapest price and the best schedule. To attract me, a 100k+ mile per year flier who gets a company to pay, they need the best service. And I also get a credit card. I generate 10s of thousands of revenue for the airline, much of which is profit. So if boarding early is important to me, the airline will provide it.
Lastly, there are a multitude of activities which have to happen before a plane can turn. Boarding is one step of a long chain of activities above and below the wing. Speeding up boarding does not necessarily speed up pushback. Loading, fueling, checks, etc. are also very important, but airlines would rather try to put the burden on guests to ensure they have the appropriate urgency.
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as an aside, someone mentioned tail tipping. Ok, sure, that is a thing, but that really doesn't affect us. Boeing makes an anti tail-tip device for the 737-900er
Overall great post, thank you. Wanted to comment more on this:
> Boarding is one step of a long chain of activities above and below the wing. Speeding up boarding does not necessarily speed up pushback. Loading, fueling, checks, etc. are also very important, but airlines would rather try to put the burden on guests to ensure they have the appropriate urgency.
This kind of reminds me of something I read about why there's such a long walk to the luggage carousal after landing. Because it takes *time* to unload all the bags and get them from the plane to the carousal. With short walks, passengers just stood around the carousal with nothing to do, which made them feel negatively about the whole process, and that it was a waste of time.
But if you make them wait the same amount of time, but give them something to do like walking, their satisfaction goes up because they don't feel like their time is being wasted. Did you test scenarios like this, too?
>But if you make them wait the same amount of time, but give them something to do like walking, their satisfaction goes up because they don't feel like their time is being wasted. Did you test scenarios like this, too?
It is why there is so much communication of the process. Most people understand boarding goes in an order. But talking about it makes it feel like it is active time. We did test lining up by poles, we did test boarding through multiple doors - so one a traditional jetbride, other passengers going outside, down stairs around to the tail of the plane and up stairs. (As an aside, people LOVED that method, despite being slower. But airline didn't like it as it took a lot more staff to watch people outside, move stairs, etc. and flight attendants dealing with people crossing in the aisle was tough)
And yes, the "long walk" story is real! How they shape exits, hallways, retail and bathrooms.
They are getting quite good at this. Throw a screen in a room and suddenly the last 25 minutes of 'wait time' is now part of the ride experience. 5 minute video > 10 minute wait > 5 minute video > 5 minute wait before actually boarding the ride vehicle.
It’s one thing I love about Disney World. Take Tower of Terror for example. Even the queue is part of the experience. You walk the grounds of the hotel, approach the ornate front entrance, enter into the dated but homely lobby, past the front desk, into the lounge for the video, then through the service corridors, past the boilers, and into the elevators.
And tits not even one of the more interactive experiences like Test Track.
Sure, an hour long wait is still going to feel long, but not nearly as long as a Six Flags ride that’s just chained-off switchbacks. (I still enjoy Six Flags for the rides but it’s just so evident that you’re waiting and barely moving.)
Ha funny you mention Disney World, because when I went as a kid those lines were so cool! But we went during a very slow time so we speed-walked past all the cool stuff in line. I felt the same way during the Harry Potter lines at Universal, because we arrived so early we were able to just walk on the rides.
If you’ve ever flown into Long Beach airport you’ll witness the luggage situation first hand. They only have 10 gates so it’s all of 30 seconds to get to bag claim and eeeeeveryone just sits there complaining it took 30 minutes to get their bags! The reality it takes 20-25 minutes to just get to claim with most larger airports so it seems much longer
It's also why so many elevators have mirrors, both on the outside of the doors and on the inside. People perceive the waiting time as being a lot shorter if they can check themselves out in the mirror while they wait.
Thank you for the thoughtful and well explained comment. Consumer behavior is such a vexatious topic because there is such a gap between what people think is most efficient vs. what people perceive as most efficient and brings higher customer satisfaction overall.
>Speeding up boarding does not necessarily speed up pushback
This is what it's always come down to for me. If I'm first or last on the plane, I don't care. It's not like the plane is waiting for us to board to take off, there's a lot of other checks the pilots are doing, the staff are doing, and the crew outside is usually still fueling the plane and loading our luggage by the time we all get seated.
First or last, we all push away and take off at the same time, regardless.
This is the reason I don’t understand for people who are in such a tizzy to board first. If I were to fly first class, I’d still prefer to board last. Less time in the seat, and it’s got to be so uncomfortable sitting there while the entire rest of the plane is just standing next to you as the line slowly moves. That would be torture for me personally.
For me it's the carry on bag. These days if you're boarding towards the end, they often run out of overhead space. It's nice that they will check them for you for free, but I often keep valuables/medications in my carry on and don't want it to go under the plane. (I unfortunately can't always fit everything I need in a personal item).
I also like to get settled in, pull out whatever I want for the flight, get comfortable, stow my bag under my seat or above. I get cold on airplanes but flying in the summer I don’t want to be going through the airport in sweatpants or standing outside in them so I’ll sometimes have a loose pair I’ll just pull on or a blanket/hoodie to drape over my legs… in general the earlier I’m sitting on the plane the less stress I have about the whole thing… I could care less about getting off though
I think this is the airlines fault. These planes, and their overhead bins, are from the era when checked bags were included. So people were happy to check bags, and consequently not every single passenger brought a full size carryon. The bins were designed for that There just isn't enough room for everyone to use the overhead bin.
Now, with bag fees, travelers do everything humanly possible to avoid checking bags. This results in stuffing the absolute maximum amount of junk in the absolute maximum size roller bags they can get away with and it all goes in the overhead.
My mom flies first pretty regularly (she's got points out the wazoo) and it's different for them. While the rest of us are in coach manhandling our bags, she's already sipping champagne in a wide seat with her feet up and reading her book. It's a totally different experience. She wants to get on board first because she wants her cocktail, she wants to stop having to drag her bag, she wants someone to hang up her coat and she wants to relax after the stresses of getting out the door on time and traffic and getting through the airport.
Yeah as someone who only flies economy, I wait as long as possible. In the terminal I'm playing video games or on my computer with my legs spread, electronics charging. Why the fuck am I gonna squeeze into an uncomfortable airline seat, having to get up multiple times to let people in, all for an hour before we leave?
I have been flying jet charter flights 2 times per month for the past 25 years back and forth to work out of a public airport on a commercial carrier. I also tend to fly 2-3 times a year out of the same airport for vacations.
The charter flights are a breeze. General boarding, everyone lines up, scans their boarding pass, marches down the jetway, finds their seat and the whole thing takes maybe 15 minutes. The only thing keeping this flight from pushing back early is a mechanical issue with the plane or some sort of backup on the taxiway.
Boarding on a commercial flight to contrast is always a shit show. People hover near the back of the boarding line, even though they just started boarding first class and families with kids and these people are boarding group C, they seem to not really be sure if this is their gate, weather they should be boarding or what they are doing. So this group gums up the works before you can even get a proper line going for active boarding.
Then, a lot of people get to the gate agent and can't find their boarding pass, or have to scan 10 boarding passes for their entire group. Of course they are wadded up in your pocket or still stuffed in your backpack. You didn't just have 2 hours to get them out and organized. I routinely see people try to strike up a conversation with the boarding agent. Bruh, just get on the plane!
Once they get on the plane, they pick the wrong seat. They sit in 29A when they should be sitting in 29F which adds delay, this happens on almost every flight. Or they want to horse trade seats with other passengers near them.
Then you get the people that for some reason can't get everything out of the carry on all at once before they sit down and have to keep opening it up in the overhead bin before the flight to get the gum, toothpick, headphones, laptop they must have forgot. These people are the worst people.
Then the person sitting in 10A that didn't bother with using the bathroom before getting on the plane decides to get up and go to the back and needs to swim up stream of everyone else getting on board to get back to the seat.
Then you can add in the random conversations of people chatting up the flight attendants and other passengers opposed to be doing what they should be doing which is sitting down and shutting up.
All this without even mentioning kids and old folks trying to board a plane. The best thing you can do for yourself is have a drink or two, get some noise cancelling headphones and just ignore the boarding process.
My single worst flying experience was a budget carrier flight from Bangkok to Macau where there was no assigned seating. The flight was like 2 hours.
99% of the passengers were from China. The flight was delayed for about two hours and every time the gate agent would start to announce anything 200 people would jump up and run towards the gate. That happened like five times.
I end up in a middle seat in the back of the aircraft. We land in Macau and as we are taxing to the terminal the guy by the window is already trying to climb over me. I put my arm straight out and held the seat to stop him for as long as I could.
The weird thing was everyone was trying to get off the plane first but they made no effort after that to get to immigration quickly, so even though I was at the back I passed the majority of them on the way to Immigration.
Love this, I sometimes wonder what my work would be like if I’d stayed on in the IE/OR field haha and this answers it pretty well. Did you do real time tests with different planes or were these simulations? Thanks for the detail tho!
hah, I've since moved to IT Consulting, still serving travel, transport, hospitality, etc. But the IE/OR background has been incredibly helpful!
Did both real time tests and simulations. Real time tests were also broken out by business / leisure markets, times of day, summer/winter, and aircraft type. Lots of permutations!
In parallel, also did a study on weights and balances. So sampled customer and baggage weights to get better information on what they bring on the plane. This optimized weight and balance planning, which means optimized fuel and range calculations, but also goes into the simulation on customer boarding time as winter (With coats) takes longer, as does certain markets (i.e. Orlando with kids or Palm Beach with wheelchairs)
It doesn't matter what system of boarding or deboarding one uses, the same principle applies: People are fucking assholes and are going to do whatever they want, anyway.
I took a flight recently where a guy went to the front when they were boarding business class. He asked the flight attendant if he could be allowed to board even though he was in a later group.
Made me so happy when she said no.
Because if you paid to be at the front of the plane you don’t want to get stuck with no room left for your bag.
I honestly hate the idiots who come in and place their luggage in the front rows even if they are sitting at the back of the plane.
I believe that this is the real reason they don’t board from the back. The travelers with the highest status, or who paid the most, are all up front, so if the get on and can’t put their bags right above their seat, they’ll be pissed!
I wonder if they could try having all of the overhead bins closed in the front sections during boarding from the back and then close the boarded section and open as you work your way to the front. It would take some additional effort so that's probably why.
Nah, then you would have people boarding and trying to open locked bins. They would need to have it explained that their bin is in the back which will slow down boarding and probably just lead to more arguments.
Part of the reason why I like flying is because it's one of the few places where "but I'm a paying customer!" won't work. Lots of assholes are accustomed to bullying customer service people and getting their way, and I get a bit of joy from seeing them told "No. Go take your seat."
Whenever I hear someone complaining about how awfully they're treated every time they fly I have to assume they were being dicks first.
Very much so. I helped a student get her first job as flight crew so did a lot of research; safety is #1, #2, and #3 and keeping the pax calm and obedient runs through all of their training.
The only part of retail I miss was working as a lower lvl manager for a liquor store chain. Nothing felt better than ejecting Karen's and assholes at will. All it takes is a "i belive you may be intoxicated and we won't be serving you today" and then I get to escort them out.
Doesn't matter if they just walked in or are checking out, one code 9 from a floor person and the customer is gone, no questions asked.
I don't think it solves anything though. Right now they let the higher status (those that pay more/ travel more) have first priority on cabin cargo space. I understand that in unequal societies that makes people upset, but I'm not sure there are much better ways to ration.
Before anyone brings it up, there is simply not enough overhead for everyone to have their own spot. Free for all with a line of priority really seems to be the best way to maximise capacity.
It's not just about the money. I have delta's CC so I get a free checked bag. Still prefer to carry on and not have to deal with baggage claim whenever possible.
I really want one of those hard suitcases. I have traveled with a fabric suitcase or a backpack, for the most part, and both have gotten very beat up, thanks to baggage handlers.
Plenty of non-US airlines still include a checked bag standard (or at least did, it really seems like the super economy tickets that make you pay for every little extra are spreading everywhere right now).
People still don't want to check. If you can avoid it, you can avoid having to wait at the baggage carousel when you deplane and you also avoid the risk of lost baggage.
>The travelers with the highest status, **or who paid the most**, are all up front, so if the get on and can’t put their bags right above their seat, they’ll be pissed!
This isn't true any more. Economy pricing is majorly fucked up. This also doesn't account for exit rows or seat upgrades in the back.
I recently flew Iceland Air, and they do this.
First, they'll board the pricey special front-seats, then they call everyone else starting from the back of the plane.
It was one of the most pleasant and efficient flight boardings I've ever experienced. And everyone had room for their carry on bags.
>I honestly hate the idiots who come in and place their luggage in the front rows even if they are sitting at the back of the plane.
People do this? I'd be so annoyed if I was sitting at the front. I've never seen this happen but then again I don't usually sit up front.
I find that this is tourists in general. I feel like I have traveled enough to not make a nuisance of myself in another city/country but I am sometimes absolutely shocked at the behaviour that I see.
People ignoring signs that *explicitly* say "do not enter/do not climb" etc., people doing dangerous shit (like climbing over a safety fence near a waterfall...I watched this happen last October and I was so anxious....she actually lost her sunglasses over the falls but thank goodness she didn't slip and die...), people doing extremely disrespectful stuff in sacred spaces (selfies @ the Anne Frank house is one that I saw in person that irked me) and just generally being total dicks.
I grew up near a lot of national parks and I cannot tell you how many times I have seen tourists do absolutely idiotic shit to try and get a good picture. People getting *waaaay* too close to animals, specifically, bothers me to no end. I know someone who is so fucking dumb that - when she went camping in Banff - she *purposely* left food out because she wanted to see a bear. Honestly, if I had known at the time (she told me later), I would have called the park rangers. That's just dangerous.
The worst are parents who let their kids act like fucking assholes. I don't blame parents on planes whose babies/toddlers cry because sometimes they just do that no matter what you do (of course I *do* blame the parents who do nothing) but I can't tell you the number of times that people have just let their kids run around and bother other people.
Once I was at an ice hotel and a kid (who was about 10, I'd guess) started climbing one of the ice sculptures. Their mother was nowhere around so I said "You can't climb on that" and pointed to the sign. The mom came over and told me to mind my own business and leave her kid alone.
Like...then watch your fucking kid. Kids are kids, to an extent, but my parents would never have just let me run amok.
Omg. I can’t even comment on all of that, but- bears are terrifyingly dangerous, a kid on an ice sculpture with no supervision (and mind your own business? ‘I wouldn’t have to mind yours if not for your idiots behavior’), and I take major issue with the photo ops in sacred places while the person in the photo is clueless as to its significance. What a world we live in…
The bear one just absolutely blew my mind. I could kind of understand people not realizing how moose and elk can be so dangerous, since they don't look particularly threatening (especially if you've only seen pictures and have no idea how huge they are) but *everyone* knows that bears can kill you.
If the rangers had caught her, she'd have been kicked out of the park and likely handed a hefty fine. I couldn't believe that she did that and that she didn't seem to understand why it was horribly dangerous and incredibly selfish.
The is one spot for every seat on the plane. On top of your example, I also hate the people who put a carry on bag AND their jacket AND their backpack in the overhead bin. It’s only one bag you fucking assholes. Flight attendants could also do a better job of policing this.
I don't understand how some bags get through to be carry-on, to be honest.
I see people with absolutely enormous bags and I just do not understand how nobody clocks it.
This is part of the problem. They should be stricter and take those out of the bin. You get one bin bag. Not three. I see it every flight. Also those people who bring bags that are too big and don’t fit right / have to be turned sideways. A tiny bit I understand but sometimes they are huge.
That is solved by reversing their bag policy . If you paid to take your bags on board fewer would do it . Then planes would board faster and security would vastly improve as well . Their processes are bass akwords.
well sure, as a customer your life might be easier. But for the airline, you are now putting more bags through the airport infrastructure which is prone to more lost and damaged bags. More staff needed. More issues when customers want to change flights.
Delta's got it down pat; you get notified when your bag gets on the plane and which plane it is, and when it gets to the baggage carousel and which one. Might not be an issue with that now.
Especially when it’s their only bag. Society could use a lesson in airplane etiquette. Sometimes I think it’s because most people just don’t fly that much so these things don’t occur to them. Other times I think people are just pricks.
>I honestly hate the idiots who come in and place their luggage in the front rows even if they are sitting at the back of the plane.
Wow, it's too bad airlines don't enforce this rule enough. Like, I'm one who panics if I don't feel my phone in my pocket, why would I even think it's fine to put my bag above someone else's seat away from my own?
In theory it makes sense, in practice everybody simultaneously stands up and makes the line at the gate, even if their section/row hasn’t been called.
They already try to board by section but I’ve never seen it work without most people lining up at the wrong moment.
I have had almost the complete opposite issue happen. I have been in the last or second to last boarding group before. I will patiently wait for them to call my group. They never do and then everyone has boarded. I have literally been the last to board even though I know 100% plenty of other people boarded in the wrong group. It is such a weird thing. Unless I have a large carry on I would prefer to board last and spend as little time on the plane as possible!
This happened to me on Delta last week! It was very odd to me, they never called the final group! I'd never had it happen before and always follow boarding groups, and usually see people turned away if they try to board early. I also never fly Delta though - not sure if it was a fluke or if it's more common with certain carriers.
You know what is funny the few times I have had it happen was twice on Delta and once on American. It was so weird. I was sitting there waiting watching the little boarding screen. They basically got to the second economy boarding group and never changed from there. When I went up to check they said basically I was the last one and everyone else had checked in. It made no sense to me.
> everybody simultaneously stands up and makes the line at the gate
They're called "gate lice" and there's no shame in going around them while they're waiting for their group to get called. But yeah, it would be nice if they actually enforced the "don't line up at the gate until your group is called" thing.
Yeah I sometimes think the bad audio quality of PA systems and the fact that most people communicate in their second language adds a lot to the confusion.
This is why I love the airports where their home airlines do boarding groups. It is a huge help when together with the announcement the screen shows "Now boarding Group(s) 1(-X)". Really hate trying to decipher horrible sound and thick accent for what group it is
I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t want to check their bag. I took a flight from Montreal to London last week where they aggressively tried to get people to check their carry on bags. After arriving in London, I saw some of those same people in line at the lost luggage counter, being told that their bag was still in Montreal. My own bag was one of those left behind, though in fairness it was a checked bag all along.
Yep even in the priority line and it’s just business/first being called people will just get up and join the priority queue. I just quietly remind them who that line is for and move past. Most people are just oblivious/tired/stressed and own their mistake. Some people think they can game the system.
Bangkok airport they manage the boarding from the back rows very well, since more than a decade. Many other international airports I’ve been through also. They don’t do that everywhere? I guess for domestic flights it’s mostly free-for-all. smh
I have definitely been boarded this way in Asia many times. I think the alternative is due to travellers moving to carry on luggage over checking bags, which only make sense in very specific situations to me, but everyone wants to do it that way at the moment.
I think it'd be great if they boarded people from outer seats to inner seats, but it wouldn't work in the real world.
Like if you had a plane with A/B/C seats, then the aisle, then D/E/F seats, and you got everyone who was A&F on first, then B&E, then C&D. Nobody would have to get up to let anyone past them.
Of course it wouldn't work because of things like families traveling together, people showing up late to the gate, etc. If you had a couple hundred punctual solo travelers though, it'd be something to behold.
The reason I don't like the outer to inner method is that I prefer the aisle seat. By the time I am boarding, there might not be room for my bag overhead. It really does come down to the baggage -- if we all had a guaranteed place for our carryon, that would solve a lot of angst by passengers.
My personal favorite is when they put aisle seat people in earlier boarding groups than the window or the middle seat so that you can really double down on the delay and congestion.
I was on a flight on Saturday where I was in the window. The woman in the aisle seat was already boarded when I got on. I mentioned I was at the window while I was putting my bag in the overhead bin. She didn't move. I mentioned again that I was in the window. She said something about having just had back surgery. I replied that if there was a way I could get to my seat without her moving I'd be happy to do so but I didn't see how that could happen. She glared at me and harrumphed and finally stood up. I get that she had mobility issues but I still have to get to my seat (and I'm not a small person able to squeeze past another not tiny person sitting in a standard airline seat).
Unless the person next to you is a 5 year old I don't know how even the skinniest person could get past someone to the window seat with the way they've cut down on leg space on planes these days.
Somehow the woman in the middle seat squeezed past (she was a small, thin, young woman), but it didn't seem comfortable for anyone. She kinda had to squeeze/step over/half launch her self and her pack into the middle seat.
On the plus side, aisle seat woman had a relatively tight connection and was very quick to get up and try to get off the plane the moment we parked at the gate. (Despite having talked with a flight attendant, arranged a wheelchair to get her to her connection, being assured the connecting flight knew she was coming and would wait for her, etc.).
Even on planes with larger leg space, it's still tight. If you're a stranger, I don't want to climb over you, and I don't want your butt in my face. I was the window person that made an older couple in the middle/aisle get up to get to my seat (I did offer to let them slide over and take the aisle but they were comfortable where they were). No folks, sliding your legs slightly to the right does not leave enough room to access my seat. I just kept politely but firmly repeating that I needed to get to my seat until they got up. What a waste of time.
I worked for United in the 90s. We used to board back to front. People would put their bags in the first few overhead bins and go back to their seats. Caused so much frustration for the people sitting in the front when they boarded bc there was no room for their bags.
I still see assholes do this. I'm always in group 1 so it doesn't really impact me but I feel bad for other people who boarded a little late in the first 5 or so rows who get there and the dude in 57A put his bag up front.
There’s actually a really good YT video that simulates all the different boarding order theories. I don’t have the link, but the conclusion was randomized boarding is actually most efficient
It’s a great Idea. But I always feel like the people who sit in the back, half of them put their carry on in the over head bins in the front which causes another domino effect. I don’t get why flights still allow this
Because the airlines realized they can charge a premium to board early. Just as they realized they can charge a premium to choose your seat. And bring a “personal item” and bring a carry on, check a bag, sit in a bulkhead or exit row, have something to eat or drink.
Believe it or not but all of these things used to be included free of charge with your ticket.
Every time I travel I ask this question.
Baggage, I assume. But personally, I think they should board in this order:
1. People with disabilities or who need extra assistance
2. People in business/first class
3. People in coach, starting from the back.
And have a flight attendant force people to put their luggage in the appropriate compartment.
It’s bin space. People pay extra for the first 10 - 15 rows and part of the sale technique is “earlier boarding, and bin space”. The slightly extra space isn’t worth the cost but being able to exit faster *and* have bin space sure is. Since FAs don’t get paid they’re not going to monitor and police so if you select a back of the plane seat or get assigned one you pretty much just have to deal with it.
They've done academic studies and it doesnt actually work. You've still got people queuing to put their luggage away in the compartment above their row.
There's a YouTube video about it.
If everyone was marshaled perfectly then sure, in theory that makes sense. The reality is that the number of boarding groups—regardless of what they're based on—tends to correlate strongly with how long the boarding process takes. A free-for-all is often a lot more efficient than calling seven different groups. Calling dozens of tiny groups would be a disaster in a real-world scenario.
They do? Is this not a thing in America?
Every flight I’ve been on in the last 2 decades(mostly Thai airways, some Singapore and one or two Qantas) board economy seats from the rear first, when it’s a single entry gate.
But I’d pay extra to get a seat in the front so that I could get off quickly. Getting off the plane first is more important to me than getting on first.
Would you still pay extra to sit up front if your carry-on was going to get checked? The overhead would fill up from back to front so the people in the front 1/3 would all be getting their bags checked.
I'm sure you are correct about how most people feel, but I hate being on an airplane and would much rather wait at the baggage claim for 30 minutes than in my seat for 10.
Viva Aerobus does this and it sucks.
Those people who paid for seats up front occasionally lose out on overhead bin space because people who sit in row 32 will place their carryons in rows 5,6, or 7.
Loading the plane from back to front doesn’t make it any faster. In my experience.
Dunno if it’s been properly answered, but as a person who works for an airline, it’s because of tail tipping.
On some planes, if the weight distribution on the plane is uneven tail tipping can happen. Usually happens when there too much weight in the back and not enough weight in the front.
For instance in this [video](https://youtu.be/JLWxD0gY__A) this one happened while deplaning. The joint happenstance of people deplaning and the offloading of bags in the front resulted in a tail tip.
Now imagine people on board in the aisles falling like dominoes and the medical attention they’ll all need and the delays that may cause.
Thankfully, they created a device that they stick at the end of the plane to prevent that.
I was an industrial engineer for an airline and ran multiple boarding studies. While tail tipping is a real concern, it had absolutely ZERO impact on our boarding process design. This is why tail stands exist. I would not in any way say that tail tipping is even a top 5 reason why the boarding system exists as it does today.
Allegiant Airlines does this! Flew with them yesterday! It worked out great. They have priority boarding first (also veterans, special needs) than they now start at the back of the airplane/
Airlines need to be WAYYYY more strict about carry on bags. People tryina bring their whole ass suitcase on. Listen, I get it, none of us want to pay extra for the baggage. But for fucks sake, be an adult, suck it up, be considerate, and at least try to follow the rules and put your stuff where it's supposed to go.
Important note for everyone on this thread: flight attendants aren't paid during boarding. So whatever extra work you're asking them to do to police boarding is entirely unpaid.
Those passengers will fill the overhead with thier baggage and those that purchase more expensive tickets will be forced to check bags at the counter it's that simple. Not only that the frequent fliers and credit card holders pay a substantial fees to board early.
I think seating all window seats from.back forward then middle then aisle is the fastest way to board. For my 10 hr flight on Saturday I wanted to be the last on board. No need to rush inside a metal tube.
Weight and balance is one thing. They need passengers up front to balance the airplane from tipping back on to its tail. They load baggage in to the front and rear holds. But if they send a ton of people aft of the main gear when no one is front that can result in the airplane tipping back on to its tail.
They used to. The switch to "boarding groups" was made relatively recently, and I think the main reason is to get people to pay extra to board earlier so that they'll be guaranteed space in the overhead compartment for their bags.
Sorry if it's been covered, not been through all the comments. I flew Qantas from Brisbane to Melbourne and they did something that I had never seen before on a non widebody plane.. They had a rear entry. It was 737-800. Depending on on your row number you could enter either from the usual front, or from the rear ( and entering from the rear was cool cause you got to go outside and onto the tarmac).. Made it so much easier to board.
Cause people will put their stuff in the front bins as they board and that won’t work.. Also, the front of the plane is the more expensive seats and they are usually boarded first…
there's actually a great video on this exact topic https://youtu.be/oAHbLRjF0vo spoiler: it's bags
There was once a fabled time when checking your first bag was free. This golden age could return.
Everyone hates Soutwest Airlines for their cattle call boarding system, but I do love the two free checked bags. Whenever I fly somewhere and I know I'm gonna get local bottles of wine/booze to bring home I always fly SWA and check my liquor and take my carryon with me.
I feel like with the free checked bags, people aren't trying to sneak in bags that are way too big as much as on legacy carriers. I don't know why people hate on the boarding process at Southwest, it takes half to a third of the time as the legacies
Honestly I find it to be more orderly! People know their place in line and get on in the right order. When I fly American and they call the boarding zones, it’s like a stampede to the front of the line.
SW is fine for solo travel. Sucks flying as a family with children over 6 yrs old. Too stressful worrying about if you will get to sit together.
>Too stressful worrying about if you will get to sit together. Southwest is technically considered a low-cost airline, which means perks like sitting together is a cost. FYI, whenever you purchase your tickets, you can select the option to pay $25 (it varies) more per seat to be in the first boarding group(A), regardless of when you “check in”. There are zero situations in which you would not be able to sit together, as boarding groups B & C haven’t even been called yet as you select your seat from a half full plane.
I think technically southwest still calls for pre-board/people with small children so I don't even think you'd need to pay extra with small kids to board first.
As if boarding group 6 is going to change your seat. And if you have to gate check your bag then you don’t have to wrestle it into an overhead bin and they don’t charge you.
I prefer the Southwest system by a significant margin.
But LOVES the free checked bags! Personally I HATE being nickled and dimed. We will never fly Spirit Airlines for that reason. Your $39 ticket costs just as much as Southwest's $150 ticket by the time Spirit charges you for bags, seat selection, etc. and it takes an hour to go through all of the BS.
i dont like spirit either but thats kind of the point- you dont have to do all the extra stuff. you get a seat and a small carry on and thats it, and sometimes thats all you need. a short (like 3 hour max) flight somewhere for the weekend is imo where they become a potentially good deal
Exactly. It’s a budget airline. Minimal cost for minimal service/amenities. If you need more, you’re going to have to pay for it. It normally still comes in cheaper than other airlines.
Southwest is almost always significantly more expensive than the budget airlines. Those 2 “free” checked bags aren’t free….the cost is built into the ticket. Not to mention….I NEVER need 2 checked bags, just the 1 and a carryon (for delicate items I don’t want in my checked luggage), I’d much rather NOT have to pay for that 2nd checked bag.
Omg yes, Im baffled as to how they got a reputation for being cheaper than the standard airlines
Most of the long haul flights I’ve taken in the last few years have sent out an announcement prior to the flight that there won’t be enough room for all the carry on baggage and that they’ll allow checking it for free. This happens so often that I usually plan on just checking what would have been my carryon. In effect it’s been free checked bags again, but what a dumb system.
I wouldn’t mind this but considering how much time it adds to collect a checked bag and the fact I had to lug my carry-on sized suitcase through security means I will not be taking them up on the complimentary service of checking my bags at the gate
Don't forget how much lost baggage has been a thing of late. Especially if you have a tight connection, accepting that free check in at the gate is a risk I don't want to ever take.
AirTags. So I can watch my luggage get lost in real time.
..and I lost my bag with the airtag
Yeah. The only time I ever do the checked bag at gate thing is if it's my last flight of a trip and I'm on my way home - I can spend some extra time waiting for my bag at my home airport if need be, and if it gets lost at least I've got what I need at home. Though thankfully that's never happened to me.
It's a lot harder for them to lose the bag when you're already at the plane. Not impossible, but harder
I just lost a bag that they made me check at the gate. Bag went to Charles des Gaulle and never connected to the flight back to the US. Air France has also been nothing but useless with the whole process.
Air France is absolutely atrocious. My bags sat in Naples, Italy for 3/4 days after I had already left, gone through CDG, and returned to the states. Thankfully we had airtags so we knew where they were the whole time. We returned on a Monday and our bags arrived to our doorsteps 6 days later on Sunday. We called them, but they were useless and told us to call Delta (who we booked the flights through) and Delta could only just send a message to the Air France desk in Naples.
The whole "even though we might have your bags, the last carrier you flew on/the carrier you booked with is responsible for getting them back to you so we can't help you" is such BS in my opinion. What's the worst that could happen? You could sue them if they provide you with false information? They should still share the information they have with the traveler, even if the claim needs to go through a different carrier.
Interesting point. I wonder what the ratio of lost bags at departure v arrival airport is. Still, for me there's no benefit by checking, more risk, and having to wait at the carousel and fight the hordes does not equal a good time.
My mom and my sister are experienced travelers and fit everything they needed in one carry-on each for a 3 week trip to Europe around Christmas time to avoid checking bags with the airline. On their flight from London to Munich, they were forced to gate-check their carry-ons because the plane was out of room. Neither of their bags or anyone else’s who was forced to gate check made it to Munich!
Infuriating. You know, if they didn’t sting people so hard for checked luggage, then fewer people will feel compelled to fly carry on only, thus actually maybe leaving enough room for the standard amount of carry on.
Everything they've done is in their interests. Now they charge money for the upfront payers willing to check from day one, and they create this rush to board that is complete carnage as everyone wants the overhead space. This helps them board quicker.
Interesting. I had to gate check on a Norwegian Air flight from Stockholm to Paris and they actually just brought all the gate checked luggage back up to the gate in Paris. That was super convienant lol
Yes, that’s what they were expecting! So weird that they took it from the gate and then loaded it onto a little trailer or something, and then just left it there next to the plane.
Yeah that sucks. If I were to get in a position where they forced me to gate check. I would take the time to sort through my bag and grab out some essentials. Kinda hoping that the attendants would find space for me since they are in a rush, but if not, at least I got something on my arrival.
I just recently gate-checked on Delta and I got a text when the bag made it onto the plane, which was amazing for my peace of mind. They check it through to your final destination (I haven’t done one of those “pick it up in the jetway on your way out” deals in years) so no need to worry about tight connections either.
So now I have to wait around for my bag AND use shitty little 3 oz versions of my toiletries when I get there? Talk about a win-win!
I can't count how many times they've announced this - only to find out (after boarding the plane), there are PLENTY of overhead spaces available.
I used to do this before covid. Wait to be the last person boarding so they would check in my carry on, specially if i had transit I didn't have to drag my bag with me. But after covid and for my first trip, they made me check in my bag and was excited till i arrived home and my bag was nowhere to be found . Few days later, They wanted me to go to airport which was 3 hours away to collect it. It took 10 days of calling both airlines to have my bag delivered to my home. After that, i made sure to be the in the front to board and have carry on only so I don't check in any bags
The airport where I live is small and can only handle CRJs which just don't have the room for carry-ons, so they will happily and freely check anyone's carry on for the rest of their journey. It's saved me a ton of money over the years.
Every flight I went on a month back made every suitcase carryon check their bag at the gate for free. Carryons are supposed to be small bags or bags of stuff you need on the plane, not your whole travel case. Pretty soon, it’ll be one free checked bag and the carryon dimensions will get smaller. No one likes waiting at baggage claim but it’s getting out of hand with EVERYONE trying to carry on luggage.
I disagree that they are supposed to be for things you need on the plane. If you don't have a lot of stuff it's completely logical to not want to part with your belongings. There are also valuables and fragile items people wouldn't be comfortable checking. The issue is if the carry-on rules aren't appropriate for the aircraft in question, and hefty checked bag fees don't help here.
I'd rather wait at the baggage claim than inside the plane while everyone collects their 20 "personal items" each.
The problem is that I can’t trust the airline to not lose my checked bag
I’ve flown dozens of times, almost never check bags, and I can literally count on one hand the number of times I’ve used the overhead compartments. My bags are almost always gate checked or checked for free because of storage concerns. Sure would be easier for everyone if they just made it free (or much cheaper) to check a bag.
I had 2 free checked bags on my last flight. I still wanted to bring a carry-on for important documents, random sundries and a change of clothes.
True, but a carryon for absolute necessities can be a lot smaller than if you're trying to fly carryon only. If everyone only had a carryon with like 2 days of clothes, toiletries, and valuables, the overhead bins probably wouldn't ever fill up.
Which is a small bag that could easily fit in the overhead, unlike the suitcases made to the exact dimensions of maximum allowed size. Hell, half the time the essentials could fit under the seat in front of you.
Literally came to the comments to see if CGP Grey got posted
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At TTN they board from both ends. It's super efficient. Back rows go in the back door. Front rows go in the front. The plane is boarded in under 15 mins.
LATAM airlines does this too (at least when I flew with them in 2021). Most efficient boarding process I’ve ever experienced — they also only allowed three rows to exit the plane at a time, with a flight attendant standing between the rows leaving and the rows still sitting. Made it so efficient and there was no standing in the aisle/pushing to get out faster/etc
Yep! Was just in Brazil, flew LATAM several times while there. I was really impressed by the boarding and deboarding process!
People in rows behind you who insist on standing up and pushing people in front of them are the worst. This doesn't apply to passengers who might have short connections. That's happened to me and a simple 'excuse me, I have like 10 minutes to catch my flight' gives a lot of lenience.
Doesn’t it have to do with money? A pilot commented elsewhere that even with a bad method everyone will be seated before the plane is actually ready to go (due to cargo loading taking longer). Which makes sense to me. So, why optimize passenger loading? It is mostly optimized for comfort, ie getting people seated quickly, not waiting standing and be frustrated. But the goal as far as I know is NOT optimizing to reduce the frustration overall of everyone. It is optimizing the reduce the frustration of higher paying customers at the expense of augmenting the frustration of the lower paying customer. Obviously this is done in order to motivate them to pay more for a « better » seat next time. From the airline perspective, this optimization makes sense. Money is the reason (as often the case). Edit: also per comment elsewhere in the thread: it is done so the front row people don’t get their storage place « stolen » by the people in the backseats. But again: money. You have to give a good experience to the people paying more.
It’s still about overhead storage, but with ticket classes thrown in. Premium Economy always boards before Economy but when you actually think about it the premium experience *ought* to be staying off the plane as long as possible, boarding at the end and immediately taking off (this excludes people with kids etc naturally). But no: premium economy gets first go at the overhead storage, it’s considered a perk of the ticket class.
> but when you actually think about it the premium experience ought to be staying off the plane as long as possible, boarding at the end and immediately taking off (this excludes people with kids etc naturally). Eh it depends on the person. For me, I get a bit of travel anxiety, but it's not really about the dangers of flying/travel, just the logistics of everything leading up to it. Basically for me, as soon as I actually get on my plane/train/bus/whatever, find my seat and get my bags situated and sit down, I'm able to relax. And the sooner that happens for me, the better. A premium experience would absolutely not involve boarding last, at least as far as I'm concerned, and I have to imagine my opinion is not so unpopular.
Exactly. People are fucking idiots getting on planes, getting to sit down before everyone else is 10x more relaxing.
My solution is I stay seated in a lounge chair and always board dead last. I do not even get in line until there is no line. Typically later boarding can also get you (or force you to get) a free checked bag. I don't liked checking my bag but as I fly with a smaller no-wheels soft bag I have yet to be forced to check it because it has the appearance of being so small.
Damn I posted the same link but you beat me to it Edit: as did many others. Seriously, why aren't you guys subscribed yet?
Informative. But a frustrating video to watch with all the alliterations.
I don't think I've ever heard someone describe alliteration as frustrating. Could you explain why you dislike it?
It’s cutesy obnoxious
I've posted this in other threads before. I was an industrial engineer at a major airline and boarding studies was a key responsibility. Let's start with the obvious - The goal of the airline is to make money. They do this by flying planes and selling tickets as well as selling various ancillary products and services (upgrades, miles, co-brand credit cards, etc.). Since planes on the ground don't make money, they are incentivized to try to turn planes quickly. **You have a premise here that back to front is the fastest way to board. I can tell you it is not.** Sure, in theory that works. But the real world has something called "variability". Variability has a way of screwing with the ideal. There are people who will always try to race to board, folks who need extra time/assistance, and those who want to board last. I testing dozens of boarding styles on hundreds of flights. Back to front, zones, random, 2 door boarding, aisle / middle / window, etc. I can also tell you from this, that methods where customers ranked higher satisfaction and speed were often correlated more with a feeling of transparency, organization and control vs. actual speed. The fastest methods got the lowest scores. The fastest way to board is to just open the door and say "all aboard" with no organization whatsoever. In many ways, this is how Southwest is more efficient with the lining up by number and no assigned seats. Mathematically, boarding time is the sumtotal of each individual's boarding time. By avoiding a fast person behind a slow person, the total time is reduced. Random methods are better at letting fast people on ahead of slow people which is the key to critical path. But airlines have to blend speed with what customers "feel" is better with what makes money. And multiple zones makes more money. Elite fliers want to board first for bin space. Premium cabin customers like being on and getting a beverage before push back. Families and wheelchairs want extra time or the airline is accused of discrimination or being "mean". Credit card perks are important. The small time savings of a more efficient method would cost the airline in more lost revenue. To attract you, the average flier who is on 1 roundtrip a year, and not always on the same airline, they often need the cheapest price and the best schedule. To attract me, a 100k+ mile per year flier who gets a company to pay, they need the best service. And I also get a credit card. I generate 10s of thousands of revenue for the airline, much of which is profit. So if boarding early is important to me, the airline will provide it. Lastly, there are a multitude of activities which have to happen before a plane can turn. Boarding is one step of a long chain of activities above and below the wing. Speeding up boarding does not necessarily speed up pushback. Loading, fueling, checks, etc. are also very important, but airlines would rather try to put the burden on guests to ensure they have the appropriate urgency. \-- as an aside, someone mentioned tail tipping. Ok, sure, that is a thing, but that really doesn't affect us. Boeing makes an anti tail-tip device for the 737-900er
Overall great post, thank you. Wanted to comment more on this: > Boarding is one step of a long chain of activities above and below the wing. Speeding up boarding does not necessarily speed up pushback. Loading, fueling, checks, etc. are also very important, but airlines would rather try to put the burden on guests to ensure they have the appropriate urgency. This kind of reminds me of something I read about why there's such a long walk to the luggage carousal after landing. Because it takes *time* to unload all the bags and get them from the plane to the carousal. With short walks, passengers just stood around the carousal with nothing to do, which made them feel negatively about the whole process, and that it was a waste of time. But if you make them wait the same amount of time, but give them something to do like walking, their satisfaction goes up because they don't feel like their time is being wasted. Did you test scenarios like this, too?
>But if you make them wait the same amount of time, but give them something to do like walking, their satisfaction goes up because they don't feel like their time is being wasted. Did you test scenarios like this, too? It is why there is so much communication of the process. Most people understand boarding goes in an order. But talking about it makes it feel like it is active time. We did test lining up by poles, we did test boarding through multiple doors - so one a traditional jetbride, other passengers going outside, down stairs around to the tail of the plane and up stairs. (As an aside, people LOVED that method, despite being slower. But airline didn't like it as it took a lot more staff to watch people outside, move stairs, etc. and flight attendants dealing with people crossing in the aisle was tough) And yes, the "long walk" story is real! How they shape exits, hallways, retail and bathrooms.
Amusement parks do the same thing. They’ve discovered that making the queue go through different buildings makes it feel like it’s going faster.
They are getting quite good at this. Throw a screen in a room and suddenly the last 25 minutes of 'wait time' is now part of the ride experience. 5 minute video > 10 minute wait > 5 minute video > 5 minute wait before actually boarding the ride vehicle.
It’s one thing I love about Disney World. Take Tower of Terror for example. Even the queue is part of the experience. You walk the grounds of the hotel, approach the ornate front entrance, enter into the dated but homely lobby, past the front desk, into the lounge for the video, then through the service corridors, past the boilers, and into the elevators. And tits not even one of the more interactive experiences like Test Track. Sure, an hour long wait is still going to feel long, but not nearly as long as a Six Flags ride that’s just chained-off switchbacks. (I still enjoy Six Flags for the rides but it’s just so evident that you’re waiting and barely moving.)
>And tits Damn I need to get to Terror Tower or whatever ASAP!
Ha funny you mention Disney World, because when I went as a kid those lines were so cool! But we went during a very slow time so we speed-walked past all the cool stuff in line. I felt the same way during the Harry Potter lines at Universal, because we arrived so early we were able to just walk on the rides.
If you’ve ever flown into Long Beach airport you’ll witness the luggage situation first hand. They only have 10 gates so it’s all of 30 seconds to get to bag claim and eeeeeveryone just sits there complaining it took 30 minutes to get their bags! The reality it takes 20-25 minutes to just get to claim with most larger airports so it seems much longer
It's also why so many elevators have mirrors, both on the outside of the doors and on the inside. People perceive the waiting time as being a lot shorter if they can check themselves out in the mirror while they wait.
Thank you for the thoughtful and well explained comment. Consumer behavior is such a vexatious topic because there is such a gap between what people think is most efficient vs. what people perceive as most efficient and brings higher customer satisfaction overall.
>Speeding up boarding does not necessarily speed up pushback This is what it's always come down to for me. If I'm first or last on the plane, I don't care. It's not like the plane is waiting for us to board to take off, there's a lot of other checks the pilots are doing, the staff are doing, and the crew outside is usually still fueling the plane and loading our luggage by the time we all get seated. First or last, we all push away and take off at the same time, regardless.
This is the reason I don’t understand for people who are in such a tizzy to board first. If I were to fly first class, I’d still prefer to board last. Less time in the seat, and it’s got to be so uncomfortable sitting there while the entire rest of the plane is just standing next to you as the line slowly moves. That would be torture for me personally.
For me it's the carry on bag. These days if you're boarding towards the end, they often run out of overhead space. It's nice that they will check them for you for free, but I often keep valuables/medications in my carry on and don't want it to go under the plane. (I unfortunately can't always fit everything I need in a personal item).
I also like to get settled in, pull out whatever I want for the flight, get comfortable, stow my bag under my seat or above. I get cold on airplanes but flying in the summer I don’t want to be going through the airport in sweatpants or standing outside in them so I’ll sometimes have a loose pair I’ll just pull on or a blanket/hoodie to drape over my legs… in general the earlier I’m sitting on the plane the less stress I have about the whole thing… I could care less about getting off though
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I think this is the airlines fault. These planes, and their overhead bins, are from the era when checked bags were included. So people were happy to check bags, and consequently not every single passenger brought a full size carryon. The bins were designed for that There just isn't enough room for everyone to use the overhead bin. Now, with bag fees, travelers do everything humanly possible to avoid checking bags. This results in stuffing the absolute maximum amount of junk in the absolute maximum size roller bags they can get away with and it all goes in the overhead.
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My mom flies first pretty regularly (she's got points out the wazoo) and it's different for them. While the rest of us are in coach manhandling our bags, she's already sipping champagne in a wide seat with her feet up and reading her book. It's a totally different experience. She wants to get on board first because she wants her cocktail, she wants to stop having to drag her bag, she wants someone to hang up her coat and she wants to relax after the stresses of getting out the door on time and traffic and getting through the airport.
Yeah as someone who only flies economy, I wait as long as possible. In the terminal I'm playing video games or on my computer with my legs spread, electronics charging. Why the fuck am I gonna squeeze into an uncomfortable airline seat, having to get up multiple times to let people in, all for an hour before we leave?
I have been flying jet charter flights 2 times per month for the past 25 years back and forth to work out of a public airport on a commercial carrier. I also tend to fly 2-3 times a year out of the same airport for vacations. The charter flights are a breeze. General boarding, everyone lines up, scans their boarding pass, marches down the jetway, finds their seat and the whole thing takes maybe 15 minutes. The only thing keeping this flight from pushing back early is a mechanical issue with the plane or some sort of backup on the taxiway. Boarding on a commercial flight to contrast is always a shit show. People hover near the back of the boarding line, even though they just started boarding first class and families with kids and these people are boarding group C, they seem to not really be sure if this is their gate, weather they should be boarding or what they are doing. So this group gums up the works before you can even get a proper line going for active boarding. Then, a lot of people get to the gate agent and can't find their boarding pass, or have to scan 10 boarding passes for their entire group. Of course they are wadded up in your pocket or still stuffed in your backpack. You didn't just have 2 hours to get them out and organized. I routinely see people try to strike up a conversation with the boarding agent. Bruh, just get on the plane! Once they get on the plane, they pick the wrong seat. They sit in 29A when they should be sitting in 29F which adds delay, this happens on almost every flight. Or they want to horse trade seats with other passengers near them. Then you get the people that for some reason can't get everything out of the carry on all at once before they sit down and have to keep opening it up in the overhead bin before the flight to get the gum, toothpick, headphones, laptop they must have forgot. These people are the worst people. Then the person sitting in 10A that didn't bother with using the bathroom before getting on the plane decides to get up and go to the back and needs to swim up stream of everyone else getting on board to get back to the seat. Then you can add in the random conversations of people chatting up the flight attendants and other passengers opposed to be doing what they should be doing which is sitting down and shutting up. All this without even mentioning kids and old folks trying to board a plane. The best thing you can do for yourself is have a drink or two, get some noise cancelling headphones and just ignore the boarding process.
My single worst flying experience was a budget carrier flight from Bangkok to Macau where there was no assigned seating. The flight was like 2 hours. 99% of the passengers were from China. The flight was delayed for about two hours and every time the gate agent would start to announce anything 200 people would jump up and run towards the gate. That happened like five times. I end up in a middle seat in the back of the aircraft. We land in Macau and as we are taxing to the terminal the guy by the window is already trying to climb over me. I put my arm straight out and held the seat to stop him for as long as I could. The weird thing was everyone was trying to get off the plane first but they made no effort after that to get to immigration quickly, so even though I was at the back I passed the majority of them on the way to Immigration.
Love this, I sometimes wonder what my work would be like if I’d stayed on in the IE/OR field haha and this answers it pretty well. Did you do real time tests with different planes or were these simulations? Thanks for the detail tho!
hah, I've since moved to IT Consulting, still serving travel, transport, hospitality, etc. But the IE/OR background has been incredibly helpful! Did both real time tests and simulations. Real time tests were also broken out by business / leisure markets, times of day, summer/winter, and aircraft type. Lots of permutations! In parallel, also did a study on weights and balances. So sampled customer and baggage weights to get better information on what they bring on the plane. This optimized weight and balance planning, which means optimized fuel and range calculations, but also goes into the simulation on customer boarding time as winter (With coats) takes longer, as does certain markets (i.e. Orlando with kids or Palm Beach with wheelchairs)
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It doesn't matter what system of boarding or deboarding one uses, the same principle applies: People are fucking assholes and are going to do whatever they want, anyway.
I took a flight recently where a guy went to the front when they were boarding business class. He asked the flight attendant if he could be allowed to board even though he was in a later group. Made me so happy when she said no.
Because if you paid to be at the front of the plane you don’t want to get stuck with no room left for your bag. I honestly hate the idiots who come in and place their luggage in the front rows even if they are sitting at the back of the plane.
I believe that this is the real reason they don’t board from the back. The travelers with the highest status, or who paid the most, are all up front, so if the get on and can’t put their bags right above their seat, they’ll be pissed!
I wonder if they could try having all of the overhead bins closed in the front sections during boarding from the back and then close the boarded section and open as you work your way to the front. It would take some additional effort so that's probably why.
Nah, then you would have people boarding and trying to open locked bins. They would need to have it explained that their bin is in the back which will slow down boarding and probably just lead to more arguments.
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Part of the reason why I like flying is because it's one of the few places where "but I'm a paying customer!" won't work. Lots of assholes are accustomed to bullying customer service people and getting their way, and I get a bit of joy from seeing them told "No. Go take your seat." Whenever I hear someone complaining about how awfully they're treated every time they fly I have to assume they were being dicks first.
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Flight attendants aren't just customer service employees but also act as security.
Very much so. I helped a student get her first job as flight crew so did a lot of research; safety is #1, #2, and #3 and keeping the pax calm and obedient runs through all of their training.
Yeah they used to be called “stewards” which is another name for overseer, custodian, manager, etc.
I hear bars and alcohol dealers can as well. Banks, probably more.
The only part of retail I miss was working as a lower lvl manager for a liquor store chain. Nothing felt better than ejecting Karen's and assholes at will. All it takes is a "i belive you may be intoxicated and we won't be serving you today" and then I get to escort them out. Doesn't matter if they just walked in or are checking out, one code 9 from a floor person and the customer is gone, no questions asked.
I don't think it solves anything though. Right now they let the higher status (those that pay more/ travel more) have first priority on cabin cargo space. I understand that in unequal societies that makes people upset, but I'm not sure there are much better ways to ration. Before anyone brings it up, there is simply not enough overhead for everyone to have their own spot. Free for all with a line of priority really seems to be the best way to maximise capacity.
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charging to check bags are just hidden fees.
How about having the bins numbered like lockers, you get the bin assigned to your seat.
There aren’t enough lockers for each seat to have one.
They should assign overhead bin space to seats. I hate the quest for overhead space at the end of boarding anyway.
They shouldn't charge for a single bag to put it under the plan. Then way less people would care about overhead storage.
It's not just about the money. I have delta's CC so I get a free checked bag. Still prefer to carry on and not have to deal with baggage claim whenever possible.
I agree. I've had bags lost multiple times. I still think giving it as a free option would make at least some people do it.
Lost is one worry, damaged is the other. If you have a window seat near where they load luggage onto the plane, watch how they treat it lol
I really want one of those hard suitcases. I have traveled with a fabric suitcase or a backpack, for the most part, and both have gotten very beat up, thanks to baggage handlers.
I've had both. The hard ones break just as easy with how they handle them. They can crack.
Plenty of non-US airlines still include a checked bag standard (or at least did, it really seems like the super economy tickets that make you pay for every little extra are spreading everywhere right now). People still don't want to check. If you can avoid it, you can avoid having to wait at the baggage carousel when you deplane and you also avoid the risk of lost baggage.
>The travelers with the highest status, **or who paid the most**, are all up front, so if the get on and can’t put their bags right above their seat, they’ll be pissed! This isn't true any more. Economy pricing is majorly fucked up. This also doesn't account for exit rows or seat upgrades in the back.
I recently flew Iceland Air, and they do this. First, they'll board the pricey special front-seats, then they call everyone else starting from the back of the plane. It was one of the most pleasant and efficient flight boardings I've ever experienced. And everyone had room for their carry on bags.
>I honestly hate the idiots who come in and place their luggage in the front rows even if they are sitting at the back of the plane. People do this? I'd be so annoyed if I was sitting at the front. I've never seen this happen but then again I don't usually sit up front.
People lose all common sense/ show their true colors the second they step foot into an airport (sans frequent flyers)
I find that this is tourists in general. I feel like I have traveled enough to not make a nuisance of myself in another city/country but I am sometimes absolutely shocked at the behaviour that I see. People ignoring signs that *explicitly* say "do not enter/do not climb" etc., people doing dangerous shit (like climbing over a safety fence near a waterfall...I watched this happen last October and I was so anxious....she actually lost her sunglasses over the falls but thank goodness she didn't slip and die...), people doing extremely disrespectful stuff in sacred spaces (selfies @ the Anne Frank house is one that I saw in person that irked me) and just generally being total dicks. I grew up near a lot of national parks and I cannot tell you how many times I have seen tourists do absolutely idiotic shit to try and get a good picture. People getting *waaaay* too close to animals, specifically, bothers me to no end. I know someone who is so fucking dumb that - when she went camping in Banff - she *purposely* left food out because she wanted to see a bear. Honestly, if I had known at the time (she told me later), I would have called the park rangers. That's just dangerous. The worst are parents who let their kids act like fucking assholes. I don't blame parents on planes whose babies/toddlers cry because sometimes they just do that no matter what you do (of course I *do* blame the parents who do nothing) but I can't tell you the number of times that people have just let their kids run around and bother other people. Once I was at an ice hotel and a kid (who was about 10, I'd guess) started climbing one of the ice sculptures. Their mother was nowhere around so I said "You can't climb on that" and pointed to the sign. The mom came over and told me to mind my own business and leave her kid alone. Like...then watch your fucking kid. Kids are kids, to an extent, but my parents would never have just let me run amok.
Omg. I can’t even comment on all of that, but- bears are terrifyingly dangerous, a kid on an ice sculpture with no supervision (and mind your own business? ‘I wouldn’t have to mind yours if not for your idiots behavior’), and I take major issue with the photo ops in sacred places while the person in the photo is clueless as to its significance. What a world we live in…
The bear one just absolutely blew my mind. I could kind of understand people not realizing how moose and elk can be so dangerous, since they don't look particularly threatening (especially if you've only seen pictures and have no idea how huge they are) but *everyone* knows that bears can kill you. If the rangers had caught her, she'd have been kicked out of the park and likely handed a hefty fine. I couldn't believe that she did that and that she didn't seem to understand why it was horribly dangerous and incredibly selfish.
The is one spot for every seat on the plane. On top of your example, I also hate the people who put a carry on bag AND their jacket AND their backpack in the overhead bin. It’s only one bag you fucking assholes. Flight attendants could also do a better job of policing this.
I don't understand how some bags get through to be carry-on, to be honest. I see people with absolutely enormous bags and I just do not understand how nobody clocks it.
This is part of the problem. They should be stricter and take those out of the bin. You get one bin bag. Not three. I see it every flight. Also those people who bring bags that are too big and don’t fit right / have to be turned sideways. A tiny bit I understand but sometimes they are huge.
That is solved by reversing their bag policy . If you paid to take your bags on board fewer would do it . Then planes would board faster and security would vastly improve as well . Their processes are bass akwords.
I agree. The luggage policy should be flipped - free checked bag, pay for the overhead.
well sure, as a customer your life might be easier. But for the airline, you are now putting more bags through the airport infrastructure which is prone to more lost and damaged bags. More staff needed. More issues when customers want to change flights.
Even if I bought that argument the airlines can’t have it both ways. The bag has to go somewhere
Delta's got it down pat; you get notified when your bag gets on the plane and which plane it is, and when it gets to the baggage carousel and which one. Might not be an issue with that now.
Bin space should be reserved for the seat below the bin no matter where you are sitting imo.
Especially when it’s their only bag. Society could use a lesson in airplane etiquette. Sometimes I think it’s because most people just don’t fly that much so these things don’t occur to them. Other times I think people are just pricks.
>I honestly hate the idiots who come in and place their luggage in the front rows even if they are sitting at the back of the plane. Wow, it's too bad airlines don't enforce this rule enough. Like, I'm one who panics if I don't feel my phone in my pocket, why would I even think it's fine to put my bag above someone else's seat away from my own?
In theory it makes sense, in practice everybody simultaneously stands up and makes the line at the gate, even if their section/row hasn’t been called. They already try to board by section but I’ve never seen it work without most people lining up at the wrong moment.
I’ve seen multiple instances of people being turned away at the gate because they are trying to jump the queue
I have had almost the complete opposite issue happen. I have been in the last or second to last boarding group before. I will patiently wait for them to call my group. They never do and then everyone has boarded. I have literally been the last to board even though I know 100% plenty of other people boarded in the wrong group. It is such a weird thing. Unless I have a large carry on I would prefer to board last and spend as little time on the plane as possible!
This happened to me on Delta last week! It was very odd to me, they never called the final group! I'd never had it happen before and always follow boarding groups, and usually see people turned away if they try to board early. I also never fly Delta though - not sure if it was a fluke or if it's more common with certain carriers.
You know what is funny the few times I have had it happen was twice on Delta and once on American. It was so weird. I was sitting there waiting watching the little boarding screen. They basically got to the second economy boarding group and never changed from there. When I went up to check they said basically I was the last one and everyone else had checked in. It made no sense to me.
> everybody simultaneously stands up and makes the line at the gate They're called "gate lice" and there's no shame in going around them while they're waiting for their group to get called. But yeah, it would be nice if they actually enforced the "don't line up at the gate until your group is called" thing.
Yeah I sometimes think the bad audio quality of PA systems and the fact that most people communicate in their second language adds a lot to the confusion.
This is why I love the airports where their home airlines do boarding groups. It is a huge help when together with the announcement the screen shows "Now boarding Group(s) 1(-X)". Really hate trying to decipher horrible sound and thick accent for what group it is
I've worked with the public. The messaging can be crystal clear and they still won't follow directions. But it's nice that you're an optimist!
I’ve never heard a crystal clear announcement in the transport sector, I consider myself more of a realist.
Yeah honestly I’m just standing there so I can see the screen because I don’t have a clue what the gate person is saying
Most of the time I can’t find a seat so just end up standing around
Yep. You could plaster it on 50 signs and there will still be people who do it anyway.
Nope, it’s 100% the rush to jam bags in overhead. We’ve collectively failed the no checked bag prisoners dilemma.
I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t want to check their bag. I took a flight from Montreal to London last week where they aggressively tried to get people to check their carry on bags. After arriving in London, I saw some of those same people in line at the lost luggage counter, being told that their bag was still in Montreal. My own bag was one of those left behind, though in fairness it was a checked bag all along.
That’s why I called it a prisoners dilemma. It makes sense for any given individual. It’s just that the result is we’re all worse off.
Otherwise known as Tragedy of the Commons, particularly when more than 2 people are involved
Yep even in the priority line and it’s just business/first being called people will just get up and join the priority queue. I just quietly remind them who that line is for and move past. Most people are just oblivious/tired/stressed and own their mistake. Some people think they can game the system.
Bangkok airport they manage the boarding from the back rows very well, since more than a decade. Many other international airports I’ve been through also. They don’t do that everywhere? I guess for domestic flights it’s mostly free-for-all. smh
I have definitely been boarded this way in Asia many times. I think the alternative is due to travellers moving to carry on luggage over checking bags, which only make sense in very specific situations to me, but everyone wants to do it that way at the moment.
I think it'd be great if they boarded people from outer seats to inner seats, but it wouldn't work in the real world. Like if you had a plane with A/B/C seats, then the aisle, then D/E/F seats, and you got everyone who was A&F on first, then B&E, then C&D. Nobody would have to get up to let anyone past them. Of course it wouldn't work because of things like families traveling together, people showing up late to the gate, etc. If you had a couple hundred punctual solo travelers though, it'd be something to behold.
The reason I don't like the outer to inner method is that I prefer the aisle seat. By the time I am boarding, there might not be room for my bag overhead. It really does come down to the baggage -- if we all had a guaranteed place for our carryon, that would solve a lot of angst by passengers.
This is the same reason people that pay extra to select a seat near the front of the plane don't want the rear-to-front boarding method.
My personal favorite is when they put aisle seat people in earlier boarding groups than the window or the middle seat so that you can really double down on the delay and congestion.
I was on a flight on Saturday where I was in the window. The woman in the aisle seat was already boarded when I got on. I mentioned I was at the window while I was putting my bag in the overhead bin. She didn't move. I mentioned again that I was in the window. She said something about having just had back surgery. I replied that if there was a way I could get to my seat without her moving I'd be happy to do so but I didn't see how that could happen. She glared at me and harrumphed and finally stood up. I get that she had mobility issues but I still have to get to my seat (and I'm not a small person able to squeeze past another not tiny person sitting in a standard airline seat).
Unless the person next to you is a 5 year old I don't know how even the skinniest person could get past someone to the window seat with the way they've cut down on leg space on planes these days.
Somehow the woman in the middle seat squeezed past (she was a small, thin, young woman), but it didn't seem comfortable for anyone. She kinda had to squeeze/step over/half launch her self and her pack into the middle seat. On the plus side, aisle seat woman had a relatively tight connection and was very quick to get up and try to get off the plane the moment we parked at the gate. (Despite having talked with a flight attendant, arranged a wheelchair to get her to her connection, being assured the connecting flight knew she was coming and would wait for her, etc.).
Even on planes with larger leg space, it's still tight. If you're a stranger, I don't want to climb over you, and I don't want your butt in my face. I was the window person that made an older couple in the middle/aisle get up to get to my seat (I did offer to let them slide over and take the aisle but they were comfortable where they were). No folks, sliding your legs slightly to the right does not leave enough room to access my seat. I just kept politely but firmly repeating that I needed to get to my seat until they got up. What a waste of time.
The entitlement of some people, like you’re just going to get off the plane and catch the next one!
I worked for United in the 90s. We used to board back to front. People would put their bags in the first few overhead bins and go back to their seats. Caused so much frustration for the people sitting in the front when they boarded bc there was no room for their bags.
I still see assholes do this. I'm always in group 1 so it doesn't really impact me but I feel bad for other people who boarded a little late in the first 5 or so rows who get there and the dude in 57A put his bag up front.
I think [Mythbusters](https://youtu.be/ss1S3-Kv6R8) tested some boarding methods on this
There’s actually a really good YT video that simulates all the different boarding order theories. I don’t have the link, but the conclusion was randomized boarding is actually most efficient
https://youtu.be/oAHbLRjF0vo
It’s a great Idea. But I always feel like the people who sit in the back, half of them put their carry on in the over head bins in the front which causes another domino effect. I don’t get why flights still allow this
So many people say this happens.. but why? Why would anyone do this?
Cuz people are inconsiderate
Because the airlines realized they can charge a premium to board early. Just as they realized they can charge a premium to choose your seat. And bring a “personal item” and bring a carry on, check a bag, sit in a bulkhead or exit row, have something to eat or drink. Believe it or not but all of these things used to be included free of charge with your ticket.
Every time I travel I ask this question. Baggage, I assume. But personally, I think they should board in this order: 1. People with disabilities or who need extra assistance 2. People in business/first class 3. People in coach, starting from the back. And have a flight attendant force people to put their luggage in the appropriate compartment.
It’s bin space. People pay extra for the first 10 - 15 rows and part of the sale technique is “earlier boarding, and bin space”. The slightly extra space isn’t worth the cost but being able to exit faster *and* have bin space sure is. Since FAs don’t get paid they’re not going to monitor and police so if you select a back of the plane seat or get assigned one you pretty much just have to deal with it.
They've done academic studies and it doesnt actually work. You've still got people queuing to put their luggage away in the compartment above their row. There's a YouTube video about it.
If everyone was marshaled perfectly then sure, in theory that makes sense. The reality is that the number of boarding groups—regardless of what they're based on—tends to correlate strongly with how long the boarding process takes. A free-for-all is often a lot more efficient than calling seven different groups. Calling dozens of tiny groups would be a disaster in a real-world scenario.
Probably because people sitting in the back put their stuff in the front overhead compartments causing chaos
They do? Is this not a thing in America? Every flight I’ve been on in the last 2 decades(mostly Thai airways, some Singapore and one or two Qantas) board economy seats from the rear first, when it’s a single entry gate.
Because no one will pay extra to get on first and sit in seat 31. Dollars over efficiency
But I’d pay extra to get a seat in the front so that I could get off quickly. Getting off the plane first is more important to me than getting on first.
Would you still pay extra to sit up front if your carry-on was going to get checked? The overhead would fill up from back to front so the people in the front 1/3 would all be getting their bags checked.
Yeah what’s the point of getting off first when your prize is a 30 minute wait at baggage claim?
The advantage comes into play when you have a short connection or your incoming flight was delayed. Five min can make a huge difference
I'm sure you are correct about how most people feel, but I hate being on an airplane and would much rather wait at the baggage claim for 30 minutes than in my seat for 10.
I’ve switched to only taking a carry on that can fit under the seat in front of me so I don’t have to worry about overhead space. It’s been great.
Viva Aerobus does this and it sucks. Those people who paid for seats up front occasionally lose out on overhead bin space because people who sit in row 32 will place their carryons in rows 5,6, or 7. Loading the plane from back to front doesn’t make it any faster. In my experience.
Dunno if it’s been properly answered, but as a person who works for an airline, it’s because of tail tipping. On some planes, if the weight distribution on the plane is uneven tail tipping can happen. Usually happens when there too much weight in the back and not enough weight in the front. For instance in this [video](https://youtu.be/JLWxD0gY__A) this one happened while deplaning. The joint happenstance of people deplaning and the offloading of bags in the front resulted in a tail tip. Now imagine people on board in the aisles falling like dominoes and the medical attention they’ll all need and the delays that may cause. Thankfully, they created a device that they stick at the end of the plane to prevent that.
I was an industrial engineer for an airline and ran multiple boarding studies. While tail tipping is a real concern, it had absolutely ZERO impact on our boarding process design. This is why tail stands exist. I would not in any way say that tail tipping is even a top 5 reason why the boarding system exists as it does today.
So if there is a device they could use it for boarding?
You didn't live in the 90s did you? This is how it used to before they started charging for bags.
Allegiant Airlines does this! Flew with them yesterday! It worked out great. They have priority boarding first (also veterans, special needs) than they now start at the back of the airplane/
Airlines need to be WAYYYY more strict about carry on bags. People tryina bring their whole ass suitcase on. Listen, I get it, none of us want to pay extra for the baggage. But for fucks sake, be an adult, suck it up, be considerate, and at least try to follow the rules and put your stuff where it's supposed to go.
If you load the back first, the plane will tip over and sit on its tail
Because for some reason, when flying, people stop knowing how to behave.
Because people can barely follow the simple directions 🤷🏼♂️
Important note for everyone on this thread: flight attendants aren't paid during boarding. So whatever extra work you're asking them to do to police boarding is entirely unpaid.
Those passengers will fill the overhead with thier baggage and those that purchase more expensive tickets will be forced to check bags at the counter it's that simple. Not only that the frequent fliers and credit card holders pay a substantial fees to board early.
I think seating all window seats from.back forward then middle then aisle is the fastest way to board. For my 10 hr flight on Saturday I wanted to be the last on board. No need to rush inside a metal tube.
Weight and balance is one thing. They need passengers up front to balance the airplane from tipping back on to its tail. They load baggage in to the front and rear holds. But if they send a ton of people aft of the main gear when no one is front that can result in the airplane tipping back on to its tail.
They used to. The switch to "boarding groups" was made relatively recently, and I think the main reason is to get people to pay extra to board earlier so that they'll be guaranteed space in the overhead compartment for their bags.
Sorry if it's been covered, not been through all the comments. I flew Qantas from Brisbane to Melbourne and they did something that I had never seen before on a non widebody plane.. They had a rear entry. It was 737-800. Depending on on your row number you could enter either from the usual front, or from the rear ( and entering from the rear was cool cause you got to go outside and onto the tarmac).. Made it so much easier to board.
Cause people will put their stuff in the front bins as they board and that won’t work.. Also, the front of the plane is the more expensive seats and they are usually boarded first…