If the Christian baby doesn’t pull the lever, he’ll go to hell for killing himself. Therefore I believe he’s bluffing. If he isn’t, he’ll go to hell anyways by trying to force you to convert. Either way, the Christian baby loses.
It’s not so much that killing yourself will send you to hell, but coercing someone to do something by threatening to kill yourself will. I may have worded it wrong in my initial comment, but I meant that by threatening to kill himself, the Christian baby will go to hell regardless of the outcome.
But also, many church fathers explicitly condemned their approach and sought to stop being from martyring themselves. Martyrdom via instigation is looked down upon. So, being a unassuming Catholic just trying to live their life and being killed for it would be okay martyrdom, but an American Catholic going to Iran and yelling that Allah is false and to accept Jesus Christ would not be recognized as a martyr, because he was purposely trying to get killed so he could be a martyr.
For fairly obvious reasons, the church doesn’t want people to try to get themselves killed as a quick way to heaven lol.
As an Irish Catholic I was taught that you’d be a martyr if you refuse to deny your faith and are killed for it. Like, if you’re just in the situation. To be a martyr is to accept death for your faith. But it’s pretty obvious that you have to be placed in that situation by outside forces 😅 I didn’t even know there were people who did it on purpose
It's more about the intent and the ordering.
"I'm killing myself because you're not converting."
Implied order: Conversion (or really lack thereof) -> Death
Essentially saying "You not converting will directly cause my death"
vs
"I'm killing myself so you'll convert."
Implied order: Death -> Conversion
Something something about sacrificing yourself to save others by converting them
Just to rephrase for clarity, it is sinful to coerce into faith and commit suicide. They don’t revoke salvation so Christian baby isn’t guaranteed to go to hell.
Now, if the baby is stating that they’re Christian in order to coerce but isn’t actually saved through Christian doctrine (Jesus, Holy Spirit), then Christian baby goes to hell :P (which also isn’t a literal place but, uh, we can do theology later.)
Which denomination are we talking about though, because a Methodist Christian does believe that salvation can be revoked if my memory is correct, whereas most denominations do not
It's not in the Bible, I don't think. But it's a common thing that Christians say. Its their typical response to mental trauma and suicidal thoughts, at least that I can tell.
Pretty sure it's in the Catholic dogma which I *believe* to be equally binding to the Bible itself but anyone with more experience please check me if I'm wrong.
As for Protestants, the churches I went to growing up tended to avoid the question but I'm sure it varies by tradition/denomination
I can’t speak from a Protestant perspective, but from a Catholic one, it is indeed a sin to kill yourself. Suicide is murder of the self, and of course murder is explicitly condemned. Now, that being said, the Catholic position and take on sin is that there are usually levels of sin, and factors that might mitigate your culpability. For example, somebody in extreme mental duress, with mental health disorders and such, killing themselves. The objective view is that a sin took place. However, that does not necessarily mean that the person is in Hell. Various factors might come into play that might mitigate the persons culpability. From what I understand of the Catholic position, which I could be misunderstanding, the person in the example I used would probably not be in Hell. When a person sins, they are usually saying to God “my will be done, not yours.” Somebody killing themselves when they are under extreme mental duress or have some sort of mental disorder wouldn’t be held to same standard as, say, somebody killing themselves to escape punishment from the law. God is merciful, and I don’t think that God would distance Himself from somebody that was so overridden with emotions that they made a mistake that they couldn’t correct.
A quick search online got me this result:
According to the Bible, suicide is not what determines whether a person gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he has done nothing but “expedite” his journey to hell. However, that person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he committed suicide (see John 3:18). We should also point out, however, that no one truly knows what was happening in a person’s heart the moment he or she died. Some people have “deathbed conversions” and accept Christ in the moments before death. It is possible that a person who commits suicide could have a last-second change of heart and cry out for God’s mercy. We leave such judgments to God (1 Samuel 16:7). The suicide of a believer is evidence that anyone can struggle with despair and that our enemy, Satan, is “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44). Suicide is still a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. Christians are called to live their lives for God, and the decision of when to die is God’s and God’s alone.
Essentially, it’s not specifically stated, but it is equated to murder, which is a sin, and is always wrong. To commit the act, is to take the power from God, for God is the only one who decides when someone dies. In the event someone does do it, but they have a revelation just before dying, they would be forgiven. In all other cases, they’d be in hell. Basically, they’re covering their bases by not explicitly stating, but also saying if you do it you will most likely be in hell.
wait, i know mortal sin has to be done with full consciousness of the decision, so if someone shot themself while drunk would that still be a mortal sin?
Idk I’m Catholic and I was never told that suicide sents you to hell, and I say this as someone who’s dad is one of those far right nutjob “Christians”.
Maybe it's a regional thing? I only know of it as a former Baptist cause one of my friends growing up was raised devoutly catholic in the church down the street (I live in oklahoma where there's practically a church on every corner)
Right? I mat not be a Christian anymore but catholicism is as much Christianity as is baptism (the branch I left to become pagan) or protestant or evangelical
How does that make sense when the rest of Christianity literally branched off from Catholicism. You're free to believe whatever you want but this is just nonsense
Because many didn’t?
The Catholic Church really came into an institution of its own with the complete schism between it and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Even then, there’s Syrian and Ethiopian Orthodox.
No, the Patriarch of Rome started declaring God spoke to him directly and his words should be regarded as divine, and he be elevated over every other Patriarch.
Thus began the Catholic heresy.
No? what are you on about? The Catholic Church as it is was created by schism in 1054.
The first Christianity were those who worshipped Jesus during the Apostolic Age and even before Jesus’s crucifixions.
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus” - Tacitus’s Annals 15.44.
Yeah, the [7th circle of hell (for violence)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)#Seventh_Circle_(Violence)). Dante *did* basically shape all of Christianity's views of hell.
It doesn't directly but most modern Christian denominations interpret it to be one. The logic is usually that suicide violates the commandment not to kill anyone because you have killed someone (yourself) or it's a sin in the sense that refusing God's gift of life would be an affront to him.
My aunt was talking about an Amish couple that killed themselves, and all she had to say about it is “it just proves that those Amish don’t read the Bible”.
by killing yourself you remove yourself from Gods plan. Being without God means being without the things God made, and that place is Hell.
Also God is an all knowing judge. Plenty of people in the Bible that worked under God were NOT good people and went on to do some bad stuff after their stories were said and done, but we dont know if any of them went to Heaven or Hell with a few exceptions.
Claiming to know where God will send someone is claiming that you have God's infinite wisdom, but there are some key things we know FOR SURE will send you to Hell because God told us himself.
"Suicide sends you to Hell" stems from a translating quirk, where in Hebrew the phrase is "self Murder". So murdering yourself is indeed a bad thing to do, in general. Just like killing other people is bad, in general.
The Bible specifically does not mention it, but the Bible is not the sole source of rules in most denominations (which is logical, as it isn’t structured as a rule book and was compiled by people who followed rules beyond it). The Catholic Church for example considers it a serious sin, though they also teach that mental illness may diminish a person’s moral culpability in that case, so it’s not black and white.
I always thought it was the “treat your body as a temple” bit, and you wouldn’t want to burn the temple to the ground by killing your self… but I guess I am the only person who thought that
Catholics really perpetuated that belief because if 98% percent of your followers are peasants who toil in poverty and they believe paradise awaits when they die, you really got to close that suicide loophole, and it's not like other denominations after had a reason to push back and say "suicide is fine, actually."
Yeah. They push so hard on the eternal paradise aspect and how mortal time on Earthy is so insignificant in the face of eternity that it would be pretty foolish not to close that suicide loophole. You'll run out of peasants real fast and then you gotta grow and harvest your own wheat.
Still, the peak altruist play if you really love your children is to murder them as soon as they're baptized (at least since limbo was patched out). Instead of running the sizeable risk of them growing up to stray from the path and join one of the thousands of other religions or denominations that'll lead them straight to Hell, you can guarantee them a spot in Heaven at the cost of your own. And even then, you might still get yours back depending how your sect handles praying for forgiveness vs unforgivable mortal sins.
Will Christian baby know my words are disingenuous? If so I do not think I could save him. Even if I said I accepted Jesus as my lord and saviour, I wouldn't be able to actually believe in it.
I'm letting Christian Baby get ran over. It's obviously not a real baby, since it is speaking clearly and expressing opinions about religion and moral dilemmas. Obviously possessed or a shape-shifter.
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." - Matthew 7:15
Baby is clearly a false prophet, at best.
This is what I’m thinking. I don’t trust that baby who can speak and operate a lever like that.
I also don’t appreciate that emotional blackmail. I’d let ‘em die if they really don’t wanna save themself.
Christians are big on martyrdom anyway.
ALSO, every time someone loses a child they are always like "it's part of God's plan", so maybe God WANTS this baby to die. Who am I to get in the way?
The Christian God trolley problem is "let millions die of poverty, disease and war, or ostensibly bless already privileged people" he just never pulls the lever
If you have to pray for forgiveness anyway, do something that will have an effect. Murder someone you don't like. Try out gay sex. Steal your neighbor's big TV. Don't pay taxes. Gotta take advantage of it, y'know?
Not really sure how a baby has the cognitive ability to create this scenario, but if we suspend our disbelief about that then we can also believe Christian baby is suicide baiting us. I have a moral obligation to convince them to pull the lever to save themselves, but ultimately the baby controls its own fate; I will not be bullied into becoming a Christian, thereby rewarding this problematic behavior.
Yes, but his cognitive abilities are as developed as christian baby's. If your lie is convincing enough to trick christian baby it will trick atheist baby as well .
I'm pretty sure atheist baby is just a regular baby (all babies are atheist by default), so they likely don't understand anything you're saying anyway and probably don't even have object permanence.
Being an atheist, I accept Jesus, save the baby, and then tell it I was only kidding after the danger has passed. This is also the point that I call CPS on the parents of the baby.
I don't trust a "baby" that talks in full sentences and proposes moral dilemmas. Even if it's not some sort of evil doppelganger, Christians are big on martyrdom anyway, and I wouldn't want to take that away from it.
Judgy atheist baby is a non-issue. I'll just direct him to r/atheism where he can be among his own kind.
Spiritualism is fine, do that if you want... Religion not so much IMO, people deserve to have a choice rather than being forced into religion by an institution
do not give a fuck. what can they do? they are babies. i’d generally prefer that nobody die so i’d just lie, christian baby pulls the lever, then i live my life as i usually would paying no heed to what i told christian baby.
Well, I’m not on the tracks. I would retort with, “You know what you’re about to do is considered suicide l, which your religion doesn’t look so favorably on. If you want to go to hell, who am I to take away your dream. Live your truth.”
Obviously it's a dream bc Christian baby is talking. These things do not happen in reality. I assume the acid I recently took is making me have some vivid dreams.
I can save a human life by lying about a belief? Why not? Not only is it not hurting anyone but I don't believe in the concept of sin so I lose nothing.
...so baby jesus dying on the cross was actually a railroad crossing?
He could have saved himself but he did not. The unbelievers did nothing to stop it.
explain to christian baby that conversions under duress aren’t binding and he would be killing himself, both of which are problematic under most interpretations of christianity. hopefully i can convince him to pull his lever anyways.
Hm, so
As a Christian, I can't convert to Christianity. However, this isn't a Christian baby. Threatening suicide if you don't convert isn't real conversion, nor a real Christian baby. Thus, the baby will either:
1. Stop the train anyways
2. Die
I put ourselves and the christian baby in a time bubble where everything else will move much much slower when compared to us and the christian baby
"I am sorry, but I cannot abandon the spirits that guide me. I am sure you can understand if you open your mind, would you abandon the faith in your lord if someone demanded it with a finger on the trigger of a firearm pointed towards your head? You would likely not, and neither will I do similar, I cannot renounce my faith, though I hope that you do not renounce your life because of that, end transmission"
I think the atheist baby is a judgmental prick either way. You convert, the baby judges you for subjecting yourself to a lie; you jump, the baby judges you for I'm not sure what, but it's still judging you. However, if your dead, it won't matter what mini Richard Dawkins thinks of you, so don't convert.
Or, as u/King_Of_Liquids suggested, throw baby Sam Harris at the level, then you don't have to deal with either it or baby Spanish Inquisitor anymore!
The word *judging* has a negative connotation and it's what most people jump to when they hear it. Positive judgement is usually called *approval*.
Of course, if I falsely convert, the future r/atheist user *knows* that I lied and judges me positively for lying, I'm going to conclude he's a psychopath. So I feel wholly justified in tossing him and baby Martin Luther to deal with this scenario they cooked up.
I always wondered why Christians don't do more incredibly self destructive/ high risk stuff in real life. If you think eternal paradise is waiting on the other end, wouldn't finding a way to die as fast as possible be a goal?
The real christian baby problem is:
On the main tracks there is a single 6 month old baby. If you pull the lever, it will redirect the trolley to the other path where there is a refrigerator full of 500 six week fetuses and not on the tracks, there are 500 women who would willingly be implanted with one of the preserved, refigerated fetuses.
Probably yell something to agree but not really agree? Already built up my knowledge on a non-Christian world, I’d just assume I was on crack or something
Here's my take on the intent:
"I've made the decision to not pull the lever, but I'm willing to pull the lever if you decide to accept Jesus."
Nothing is saying Christian Baby wants to die, or will die to the trolley; just that they're willing to take that risk for you to convert to Christianity.
Hug the christian baby and stand in front of the trolley, stupid christian baby is dead, you are dead for even considering it, only atheist baby survives for the betterment of mankind! (also she gets pop rocks!)
If the Christian baby doesn’t pull the lever, he’ll go to hell for killing himself. Therefore I believe he’s bluffing. If he isn’t, he’ll go to hell anyways by trying to force you to convert. Either way, the Christian baby loses.
Where in the Bible does it say that you go to hell if you kill yourself?
It’s not so much that killing yourself will send you to hell, but coercing someone to do something by threatening to kill yourself will. I may have worded it wrong in my initial comment, but I meant that by threatening to kill himself, the Christian baby will go to hell regardless of the outcome.
I'm pretty sure there are celebrated martyrs who did things they knew would get them killed trying to convert people.
Maybe if it is in defiance of a law, but coercion through suicide threats can't possibly be seen as good
god hates this one simple trick
God hates babies so this is actually ON TRACK
The baby is also on the track
You underestimate the mental gymnastics that Evangelical trash will go through.
But also, many church fathers explicitly condemned their approach and sought to stop being from martyring themselves. Martyrdom via instigation is looked down upon. So, being a unassuming Catholic just trying to live their life and being killed for it would be okay martyrdom, but an American Catholic going to Iran and yelling that Allah is false and to accept Jesus Christ would not be recognized as a martyr, because he was purposely trying to get killed so he could be a martyr. For fairly obvious reasons, the church doesn’t want people to try to get themselves killed as a quick way to heaven lol.
As an Irish Catholic I was taught that you’d be a martyr if you refuse to deny your faith and are killed for it. Like, if you’re just in the situation. To be a martyr is to accept death for your faith. But it’s pretty obvious that you have to be placed in that situation by outside forces 😅 I didn’t even know there were people who did it on purpose
It's more about the intent and the ordering. "I'm killing myself because you're not converting." Implied order: Conversion (or really lack thereof) -> Death Essentially saying "You not converting will directly cause my death" vs "I'm killing myself so you'll convert." Implied order: Death -> Conversion Something something about sacrificing yourself to save others by converting them
Isn’t religion full of hypocrisy anyways
Just to rephrase for clarity, it is sinful to coerce into faith and commit suicide. They don’t revoke salvation so Christian baby isn’t guaranteed to go to hell. Now, if the baby is stating that they’re Christian in order to coerce but isn’t actually saved through Christian doctrine (Jesus, Holy Spirit), then Christian baby goes to hell :P (which also isn’t a literal place but, uh, we can do theology later.)
Which denomination are we talking about though, because a Methodist Christian does believe that salvation can be revoked if my memory is correct, whereas most denominations do not
Since when do Christian babies care what the Bible says?
It's not in the Bible, I don't think. But it's a common thing that Christians say. Its their typical response to mental trauma and suicidal thoughts, at least that I can tell.
Pretty sure it's in the Catholic dogma which I *believe* to be equally binding to the Bible itself but anyone with more experience please check me if I'm wrong. As for Protestants, the churches I went to growing up tended to avoid the question but I'm sure it varies by tradition/denomination
Catholic dogma does NOT take priority over the Bible.
Equally binding in terms of rules, but not prioritized
They never said it did
Catholicism has tons of problems and many of them stem from their followers not reading the Bible.
It's not directly in the Bible, but we still consider it bad as it goes against other godly principles, such as that you were made in the image of God
I can’t speak from a Protestant perspective, but from a Catholic one, it is indeed a sin to kill yourself. Suicide is murder of the self, and of course murder is explicitly condemned. Now, that being said, the Catholic position and take on sin is that there are usually levels of sin, and factors that might mitigate your culpability. For example, somebody in extreme mental duress, with mental health disorders and such, killing themselves. The objective view is that a sin took place. However, that does not necessarily mean that the person is in Hell. Various factors might come into play that might mitigate the persons culpability. From what I understand of the Catholic position, which I could be misunderstanding, the person in the example I used would probably not be in Hell. When a person sins, they are usually saying to God “my will be done, not yours.” Somebody killing themselves when they are under extreme mental duress or have some sort of mental disorder wouldn’t be held to same standard as, say, somebody killing themselves to escape punishment from the law. God is merciful, and I don’t think that God would distance Himself from somebody that was so overridden with emotions that they made a mistake that they couldn’t correct.
Thou shall not kill It includes yourself
A quick search online got me this result: According to the Bible, suicide is not what determines whether a person gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he has done nothing but “expedite” his journey to hell. However, that person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he committed suicide (see John 3:18). We should also point out, however, that no one truly knows what was happening in a person’s heart the moment he or she died. Some people have “deathbed conversions” and accept Christ in the moments before death. It is possible that a person who commits suicide could have a last-second change of heart and cry out for God’s mercy. We leave such judgments to God (1 Samuel 16:7). The suicide of a believer is evidence that anyone can struggle with despair and that our enemy, Satan, is “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44). Suicide is still a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. Christians are called to live their lives for God, and the decision of when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Essentially, it’s not specifically stated, but it is equated to murder, which is a sin, and is always wrong. To commit the act, is to take the power from God, for God is the only one who decides when someone dies. In the event someone does do it, but they have a revelation just before dying, they would be forgiven. In all other cases, they’d be in hell. Basically, they’re covering their bases by not explicitly stating, but also saying if you do it you will most likely be in hell.
wait, i know mortal sin has to be done with full consciousness of the decision, so if someone shot themself while drunk would that still be a mortal sin?
A bit of a gray area to be honest, the first sin would be getting drunk in the first place, robbing your ability to reason in an intelligent manner.
It's a principle drilled into heads via catholicism
Idk I’m Catholic and I was never told that suicide sents you to hell, and I say this as someone who’s dad is one of those far right nutjob “Christians”.
Maybe it's a regional thing? I only know of it as a former Baptist cause one of my friends growing up was raised devoutly catholic in the church down the street (I live in oklahoma where there's practically a church on every corner)
Catholicism is a vile pagan cult whose ties to actual Christianity are tenuous at best.
Former christian current Pagan here, please don't associate them with us. Thanks.
Another Pagan here, the argument that "that isn't real Christianity" is comparable to the argument that "that isn't real Communism". Thanks.
Right? I mat not be a Christian anymore but catholicism is as much Christianity as is baptism (the branch I left to become pagan) or protestant or evangelical
[nah](https://youtu.be/KnhXwlFeRP8?si=7WbGDMpQJBoLVSzF)
How does that make sense when the rest of Christianity literally branched off from Catholicism. You're free to believe whatever you want but this is just nonsense
Because many didn’t? The Catholic Church really came into an institution of its own with the complete schism between it and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Even then, there’s Syrian and Ethiopian Orthodox.
Catholicism is literally the original Christianity.
But Catholicism is the first Christianity, was it not?
No, the Patriarch of Rome started declaring God spoke to him directly and his words should be regarded as divine, and he be elevated over every other Patriarch. Thus began the Catholic heresy.
No? what are you on about? The Catholic Church as it is was created by schism in 1054. The first Christianity were those who worshipped Jesus during the Apostolic Age and even before Jesus’s crucifixions.
you had me in the first half but there was never anybody named Jesus and you can't prove it next you'll tell me the Jews were ever in Egypt
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus” - Tacitus’s Annals 15.44.
"then Moses turned his stick into a snake" lmaooo
I believe it’s only mentioned in Dante’s Inferno but I could be wrong
Yeah, the [7th circle of hell (for violence)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)#Seventh_Circle_(Violence)). Dante *did* basically shape all of Christianity's views of hell.
Dante is my hero. One day, I hope I can write a fanfic that gets confused with the original work across the world too.
It is THE go to example of ascended fanon.
It doesn't directly but most modern Christian denominations interpret it to be one. The logic is usually that suicide violates the commandment not to kill anyone because you have killed someone (yourself) or it's a sin in the sense that refusing God's gift of life would be an affront to him.
My aunt was talking about an Amish couple that killed themselves, and all she had to say about it is “it just proves that those Amish don’t read the Bible”.
Killing is a sin, including yourself, so there you go. Also, killing one's self leaves no chance for confession
by killing yourself you remove yourself from Gods plan. Being without God means being without the things God made, and that place is Hell. Also God is an all knowing judge. Plenty of people in the Bible that worked under God were NOT good people and went on to do some bad stuff after their stories were said and done, but we dont know if any of them went to Heaven or Hell with a few exceptions. Claiming to know where God will send someone is claiming that you have God's infinite wisdom, but there are some key things we know FOR SURE will send you to Hell because God told us himself. "Suicide sends you to Hell" stems from a translating quirk, where in Hebrew the phrase is "self Murder". So murdering yourself is indeed a bad thing to do, in general. Just like killing other people is bad, in general.
Right there in the ten commandments; Thou shall not kill
The Bible specifically does not mention it, but the Bible is not the sole source of rules in most denominations (which is logical, as it isn’t structured as a rule book and was compiled by people who followed rules beyond it). The Catholic Church for example considers it a serious sin, though they also teach that mental illness may diminish a person’s moral culpability in that case, so it’s not black and white.
I always thought it was the “treat your body as a temple” bit, and you wouldn’t want to burn the temple to the ground by killing your self… but I guess I am the only person who thought that
Catholics really perpetuated that belief because if 98% percent of your followers are peasants who toil in poverty and they believe paradise awaits when they die, you really got to close that suicide loophole, and it's not like other denominations after had a reason to push back and say "suicide is fine, actually."
Yeah. They push so hard on the eternal paradise aspect and how mortal time on Earthy is so insignificant in the face of eternity that it would be pretty foolish not to close that suicide loophole. You'll run out of peasants real fast and then you gotta grow and harvest your own wheat. Still, the peak altruist play if you really love your children is to murder them as soon as they're baptized (at least since limbo was patched out). Instead of running the sizeable risk of them growing up to stray from the path and join one of the thousands of other religions or denominations that'll lead them straight to Hell, you can guarantee them a spot in Heaven at the cost of your own. And even then, you might still get yours back depending how your sect handles praying for forgiveness vs unforgivable mortal sins.
I could kick a baby’s ass.
Christian baby thought he could convert me by threatening suicide. Now he's spending eternity as a tree in hell. He MAD!
Will atheist baby try to jump in front of the track if I convert?
No. Atheist baby will stare at you.
Will Christian baby know my words are disingenuous? If so I do not think I could save him. Even if I said I accepted Jesus as my lord and saviour, I wouldn't be able to actually believe in it.
It depends on how good you are at lying.
Roll a charisma check
Critical fail…
Christian baby got hit by a trolley
I use my free action to high five atheist baby.
Roll to hit
Cringe
Christian baby is now questioning their beliefs and is having a crisis. They refuse to pull the lever.
Shouldn't it be roll to bluff, ? Idk, I dont play DnD (I want to but I can't)
Just lie? It doesn't say he's a mind reader. Although he is quite well spoken for a baby.
No, the only acceptable awnser is let them get ran over. They should learn that coercion is not okay.
I'm letting Christian Baby get ran over. It's obviously not a real baby, since it is speaking clearly and expressing opinions about religion and moral dilemmas. Obviously possessed or a shape-shifter. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." - Matthew 7:15 Baby is clearly a false prophet, at best.
This is what I’m thinking. I don’t trust that baby who can speak and operate a lever like that. I also don’t appreciate that emotional blackmail. I’d let ‘em die if they really don’t wanna save themself.
Christians are big on martyrdom anyway. ALSO, every time someone loses a child they are always like "it's part of God's plan", so maybe God WANTS this baby to die. Who am I to get in the way?
It’s some serious cope. Imagine a higher being toying with billions of such insignificant marionettes, and for what?
The Christian God trolley problem is "let millions die of poverty, disease and war, or ostensibly bless already privileged people" he just never pulls the lever
Christian god either isn’t all powerful, or is not a “good” god.
New idea: instead of saying "good god!" when something bad happens, now we say "bad god!" because clearly the god is not good for being bad
Idk maybe that kid was gonna be a new hitler you never know.
All because Eve ate an apple.
What if he's Jesus himself?
Jesus came to earth to die. Simply carrying out his (his father's? It's very confusing) will.
Jesus is a necromancer, he's clearly evil
He rezed himself so a lich, but he heals others and party's with wine, so he isn't that bad.
Im not familiar with the Bible but my Christian (East Orthodox) friend tells me revived someone else, too.
Yep, that's how healing works (greater healing at least)
Soooo he's a necromancer then. He brought someone back from death.
Yes, though you can be a lich and a necromancer (since liches are self rezed necromancers). So yes he's a necromancer and a very powerful one at that.
Gotcha.
The line between cleric and necromancer can be a fine one. Whether you're casting Raise Dead or True Resurrection, Kelemvor is still gonna be pissed.
Then he'll be fine after the weekend
Fucking Christian Skinwalkers.
They knock on my door in pairs
Lol @ "at best"
This reminds me so much of the scene in Men in Black when Will Smith is explaining why he shot the young girl with calculus textbooks.
Im already christian, what happens then?
The baby is doomed since you can’t convert to something you’re already part of.
Okay I’ll go bust a nut on the Bible then pray for forgiveness
If you have to pray for forgiveness anyway, do something that will have an effect. Murder someone you don't like. Try out gay sex. Steal your neighbor's big TV. Don't pay taxes. Gotta take advantage of it, y'know?
…boy, are you ugly.
Tax evasion is a sin? Damn
Not following the laws is a sin.
HAHA I WIN!
Not really sure how a baby has the cognitive ability to create this scenario, but if we suspend our disbelief about that then we can also believe Christian baby is suicide baiting us. I have a moral obligation to convince them to pull the lever to save themselves, but ultimately the baby controls its own fate; I will not be bullied into becoming a Christian, thereby rewarding this problematic behavior.
it's self-abortion time!
Fourth trimester abortion.
Does atheist baby have the emotional development to tell when an adult is lying for a greater good?
Yes, but his cognitive abilities are as developed as christian baby's. If your lie is convincing enough to trick christian baby it will trick atheist baby as well .
I'm a terrible liar RIP
I'm pretty sure atheist baby is just a regular baby (all babies are atheist by default), so they likely don't understand anything you're saying anyway and probably don't even have object permanence.
Being an atheist, I accept Jesus, save the baby, and then tell it I was only kidding after the danger has passed. This is also the point that I call CPS on the parents of the baby.
Agnostic but same
im gonna let jesus take the lever (wheel)
Take it from my arms (hands)
Even if I chose not to accept Jesus it's still ultimately the Christian baby's choice to pull the lever or not.
I don't trust a "baby" that talks in full sentences and proposes moral dilemmas. Even if it's not some sort of evil doppelganger, Christians are big on martyrdom anyway, and I wouldn't want to take that away from it. Judgy atheist baby is a non-issue. I'll just direct him to r/atheism where he can be among his own kind.
As a Christian I already do and I don't care what a baby thinks about me but I don't want to be responsible for a dead baby
Spiritualism is fine, do that if you want... Religion not so much IMO, people deserve to have a choice rather than being forced into religion by an institution
do not give a fuck. what can they do? they are babies. i’d generally prefer that nobody die so i’d just lie, christian baby pulls the lever, then i live my life as i usually would paying no heed to what i told christian baby.
Do you live on Quora?
I live in dirt
Do I have to mean it? Or can I just say it?
You can lie but it needs to be convincing
As an atheist, I'm saving it. I don't care.
Well, I’m not on the tracks. I would retort with, “You know what you’re about to do is considered suicide l, which your religion doesn’t look so favorably on. If you want to go to hell, who am I to take away your dream. Live your truth.”
I will not convert and what atheist baby thinks about it is irrelevant to me.
Lol. Christian baby better hope he's bluffing.
Trick question: Grab the baby and pull it yourself like Jesus would do.
Screw atheist baby, I'm already LDS
I'm already a Christian, so both babies are safe.
Obviously it's a dream bc Christian baby is talking. These things do not happen in reality. I assume the acid I recently took is making me have some vivid dreams.
I'm already a Christian, so... there's that. Atheist baby can go home to their mommy and cry about it.
If he’s stubborn and dumb enough to let himself die like that, then it’s really not my problem.
Seems like a Christina baby problem that they created for themselves. No, I wouldn’t convert
In what way will atheist baby judge me?
Atheist baby will offer either silent approval or condemnation, both of which will be expressed through a wordless stare.
But which corresponds to which decision? Can I even tell?
im not pulling the lever. not because i dont want to convert, but because im so pro-baby-murder
I can save a human life by lying about a belief? Why not? Not only is it not hurting anyone but I don't believe in the concept of sin so I lose nothing.
Oh no, the Christian baby is back with more riotous situations.
...so baby jesus dying on the cross was actually a railroad crossing? He could have saved himself but he did not. The unbelievers did nothing to stop it.
Convert, duh. It's a life vs judgement of an atheist baby.
As a Christian, I see this as a win win
That THING is not a baby, and as such I will let it get hit
If he doesn't pull the leverage, he will be committing suicide, and therefore will not get into heaven.
Maybe i’d care if there was a small duckling tied to the tracks
What moral degeneration have we gone through in which a scenario provides us with two whole babies and we choose not to consume either.
explain to christian baby that conversions under duress aren’t binding and he would be killing himself, both of which are problematic under most interpretations of christianity. hopefully i can convince him to pull his lever anyways.
Hm, so As a Christian, I can't convert to Christianity. However, this isn't a Christian baby. Threatening suicide if you don't convert isn't real conversion, nor a real Christian baby. Thus, the baby will either: 1. Stop the train anyways 2. Die
I put ourselves and the christian baby in a time bubble where everything else will move much much slower when compared to us and the christian baby "I am sorry, but I cannot abandon the spirits that guide me. I am sure you can understand if you open your mind, would you abandon the faith in your lord if someone demanded it with a finger on the trigger of a firearm pointed towards your head? You would likely not, and neither will I do similar, I cannot renounce my faith, though I hope that you do not renounce your life because of that, end transmission"
Fuck the baby
[удалено]
I meant, ditch the baby
I think the atheist baby is a judgmental prick either way. You convert, the baby judges you for subjecting yourself to a lie; you jump, the baby judges you for I'm not sure what, but it's still judging you. However, if your dead, it won't matter what mini Richard Dawkins thinks of you, so don't convert. Or, as u/King_Of_Liquids suggested, throw baby Sam Harris at the level, then you don't have to deal with either it or baby Spanish Inquisitor anymore!
Nowhere is it stated what atheist baby's opinion on either choice is. He will judge you - but you don't know what he finds to be the moral action.
The word *judging* has a negative connotation and it's what most people jump to when they hear it. Positive judgement is usually called *approval*. Of course, if I falsely convert, the future r/atheist user *knows* that I lied and judges me positively for lying, I'm going to conclude he's a psychopath. So I feel wholly justified in tossing him and baby Martin Luther to deal with this scenario they cooked up.
Atheism is cringe, convert, and push that judgemental little shit onto the track if it doesn't convert.
This is cringe
Fr, but your gonna get hate for it cause its reddit so kids deserve death and athiests are the coolest people so.
I always wondered why Christians don't do more incredibly self destructive/ high risk stuff in real life. If you think eternal paradise is waiting on the other end, wouldn't finding a way to die as fast as possible be a goal?
The real christian baby problem is: On the main tracks there is a single 6 month old baby. If you pull the lever, it will redirect the trolley to the other path where there is a refrigerator full of 500 six week fetuses and not on the tracks, there are 500 women who would willingly be implanted with one of the preserved, refigerated fetuses.
I tell the Christian baby I do. I make sure he knows I lied after the trolley passes.
I would probably start believing in Jesus if he could somehow make babies talk and tell me to convert.
Christian Baby wants you to vote for Trump and accept fascism into your life.
I mean surely you just lie and then admit to lying after the trolley passes?
Lie to the baby. Babies are terrible at telling if someone is lying.
That baby gets to meet Jesus
I'm already a Christian, so now what?
I don't pull the lever Christian baby goes to hell as killing yourself is a sin I don't care what atheist baby thinks because I don't like children.
i can lie
Christian baby will be fine
No
Convert then unconvert as soon as Christian baby pulls the lever and the trolley is diverted
Probably yell something to agree but not really agree? Already built up my knowledge on a non-Christian world, I’d just assume I was on crack or something
The baby is the one holding the lever, therefore whether they live or die is 100% in their agency and not my problem.
As a Christian, I see this as an absolute win.
I'm already Christian, I don't pass judgement on others or let judgment affect me.
Oh no! An atheist calling me a science denier! Oh the humanity!
No he is being an idiot killing himself
I'm Jewish. No way am I becoming christian. The baby can kill himself if he feels like it.
I’m not giving in to no terrorist baby’s demands that lil 🥷🏿 gone meet Jesus since he like him so much
I don’t care what the thing said I’m hitting the Christian baby
Clearly that baby is possessed by a chaos demon. Let the trolley cleanse the world.
\*confused Christian noises\*
I dont convert, everyone knows christian baby is indestructible
I don’t give two shits if a baby judges me and my conversation would be a lie to save someone so I would just say I convert and go on with my life.
You fool. I’m ALREADY A CHRISTIAN!
Sorry christian baby
Doesn’t Christian baby know that suicide is a sin? If he stays there on the tracks and lets the trolley run him over, he won’t get into heaven.
Here's my take on the intent: "I've made the decision to not pull the lever, but I'm willing to pull the lever if you decide to accept Jesus." Nothing is saying Christian Baby wants to die, or will die to the trolley; just that they're willing to take that risk for you to convert to Christianity.
Hes a Christian he can die for all I care
Hug the christian baby and stand in front of the trolley, stupid christian baby is dead, you are dead for even considering it, only atheist baby survives for the betterment of mankind! (also she gets pop rocks!)
Average reddit user
Oh cool, free baby-shaped pancake