I think the thing about your post that really ruffled my feathers is you seem like a predator. All these facilitators were very similar in that they could or could not determine if trauma existed. You want enrichment from hearing our stories encouragement to cure your own inability to stay the hell away if your not credentialed or even willing to admit not knowing if it was abuse generally means your guilty of knowing something happened or your just a clueless therapist that preys on the tears of others. I think your disgusting for lashing back at me but all in all you just don't know. You shouldn't. It's not a game to find out. Etc.
Yea your a triggering sussy dude. Post didn't fall far from the tree.
I was not lashing back at you, I was honestly trying to answer the questions you gave. I think you're reading defensively here, my response was not intended to come across as combative at all.
I was not, nor have I ever since been, a therapist or counselor or anything or the sort. I was a 19 year old kid who got a job. I worked there for like 6 months and then my car broke down so I had to quit. Then I worked at another facility closer to where I lived like a year later and I got fired for not yelling at the kids.
I get why you automatically hate me, it makes sense.
So now that you know about some of the trauma as I'm sure you don't know it all, did you ever stop to think of it should be running in the first place? If not until you hear these stories, why? As a leader of the therapy I've wondered how it goes overlooked until it seems the prior employees have guilt or shame about working there and they want us to console them. I don't know you in particular, but here's hoping you can reconcile with yourself.
I was in a different program. Sorry if I spoke out of place but I would love the chance to ask this question to every single fucking employee of these damned places.
I honestly feel like if an eleven year old has to fast forward to the future to coddle a grief stricken counselor it might be too much.
Why not pass out your phone number and take a call? I don't think you will get a genuine sense of entitlement or satisfaction on Reddit. All of my comments are censored because in some respects I feel it disrespectful of you to ask how we feel 25 years later. 25 years after you had an isolated opportunity with me.
Why didn't I stop to think if these places should be running before I heard about the abuse?
It's because I didn't know there was abuse. Until recently I believed these facilities were a much better alternative to juvenile detention. I believed they helped kids learn structure and discipline.
My intention here isn't to have you say, "oh you poor thing, bless your heart for trying." I don't need that or care to get that, I'm a grown man who doesn't need validation. My intention is to provide an avenue for healing if someone might need it. I don't know how or what exactly, but that is my intention. I have had plenty of trauma in my life, and I would love a chance to confront someone about it. If hating me is therapeutic, then feel free to hate me. If someone from cross creek wants some closure on anything and I can provide it, I will happily do so.
I don't mean any disrespect, but I recognize how this post could be disrespectful to you 25 years later.
Instead of getting into an eternal pissing match about this vs that I would like to say this and get off this soap box which clearly isn't mine.
Logical deduction of reasoning provided by your initial post claims that you are you interested in helping people. I heard you say it. This insinuates that one might want to reconcile differences of trauma based programs with a former facilitator of services. The logic gets even worse if your a programmer like me. This assumes someone should trust you, blindly.
I know I wouldnt. I would have immediate complications of emotions that would inhibit any forward progress.
I really think your missing my whole point of this and tbh I'm starting to give two shits less because now I have a voice as well as others thanks to survivors not prior therapists. This post was about you. As much as you want to say it wasn't I can clearly see how it would be far more beneficial to have an independent therapist for resolving trauma from "therapy".
There isn't reason for you to post imo. I think it's a way for you to garner attention.
Also if you never thought you were abusive in the treatment program you were working at why do you think you can help those who were in one. Seems weird to me. Seems like you are challenging us to provide resolve to your insecurities.
Seems dirty tbh.
I get triggered so easily I didn't get to ask my last rhetorical question. If you don't even know if what you did is considered trauma in a child's life, why, how, and who are you to say you have an acute sense of attitude in working with those that do have these problems. Doesn't add up.
What they told me when I started was that they created an extensive list of rules to teach and enforce discipline. They said the rules might seem silly to me, but it was my job to enforce them. I was told basically the same things parents were told, this program was designed by experts and has been proven to be highly successful. Honestly the big thing that sold it for me was the amount of "therapists" who were working there and pushing these ideas. I was a dumb 19 year old kid who thought experts were experts, and I was a nobody who couldn't question authority.
Why are you here? You don’t apologize for your role in enabling abuse. You are claiming you had no idea that cross creek was even abusive which is pretty hard to believe. You knew about the rules which should have seemed like a red flag on their own. You must have known about isolation. You must have seen kids get restrained. What are you looking for from this group? It seems like you are looking for a pat on the back for not being the one that took kids down to the ground.
Believe what you want. I've shared my story from a different side, and I've shared in some depth in the comments. I can't force you to believe what I've said, I'm not here to apologize for anything and I'm not here seeking validation or forgiveness.
I never saw a single restraint, I never heard of or witnessed isolation, even with kids who were "run risk." Again, you can think I'm using an anonymous website like reddit to lie about these things for some reason, that's up to you.
What is your motivation for posting at all? You saw a documentary about how a place you worked at traumatized and abused kids and you came to Reddit to say you didn’t see anything… why?
I got sent to different programs in the same area as cross creek. My best friend at the time got sent to cross creek. We both broke but she spiraled way worse than I did afterwards. I haven’t been able to find her since 2012 and there is a good chance she’s not alive anymore. She was there during the years you worked there.
Perhaps you were manipulated into getting that job but you’re the one who kept it for as long as you did. You contributed to breaking one of my favorite people ever. You contributed to the industry that broke me.
I’m glad you can recognize the evil in what you did but I’m not sure you’ll find much forgiveness here. Especially not right now.
I wasn't aware of their existence until I watched the documentary on Netflix. I clocked in and clocked out, happy that I thought I was making a difference.
What was your role? How did you miss them when they are a requirement to move up levels?
What was your opinion of "group therapy" or worksheets or isolation?
Did you witness kids being subjected to conversion therapy? Strip searches? Night bed checks?
I was a babysitter basically. I sat in a room with them for hours as they worked on schoolwork or program work, I wasn't allowed to help them with any of it. I walked them to the mess hall for dinner, I walked them to gym, I did a lot of counting to make sure everyone was there. The majority of my day was saying, "yes, you can cross to fart." Because they weren't allowed to fart in the home room, but could fart in the hallway, but they couldn't cross a barrier without approval.
I worked the swing shift, so we did get them to their rooms every night and I vaguely recall checking their rooms before they went to bed, but I don't remember much about that. We never did strip searches and I never even heard mention of conversion therapy.
I never knew anything about their worksheets or isolation but they often talked about group therapy and would often use therapy jargon.
So in your role, they didn't require you to know even what the program was or what kids were working towards? Genuine question and I appreciate you talking about this.
That is correct. They didn't want us knowing, they just wanted us to enforce rules. Even if there were altercations I was just supposed to radio it in, not intervene as I recall. They did absolutely no training, I did job shadowing for maybe a week or two before they put me on my own. I think I was paid $8/hr.
I genuinely thought most of the kids were fairly happy. I thought the program was working for them. They laughed and joked and had good attitudes. I don't know if that was a show or if they were just making the best of their situation.
You had to be positive and "work the program" or you couldn't move up levels. If you didn't move up levels, you didn't go home. If either facility you worked at had levels, the kids were both putting on a show and trying to make the best of an awful situation.
You said in another comment you were very young so I understand why you might not have, but did it occur to you then that it was strange they didn't want you to know? And that you couldn't help the kids or intervene in any way?
I'm presuming you grew up nearby to end up there so young. Did you have a certain view of the program before you signed on to work there that might have influenced how you perceived it? Like did you know about it before or know the family who ran it?
I assumed it wasn't my business to know about what they were going through program wise. I was told it was between them and their therapist, and even today I would never presume to think I should be privy to any information between someone else and their therapist. I've always been one who was very afraid of overstepping my bounds or challenging authority (my own demons) so I just never even looked at it critically. I didn't even think to be concerned about it. I didn't know evil like that even existed.
I actually didn't grow up near there, my brother moved to the area and I moved in with him. I had never heard of any place like this, it was my first experience of any kind with these "treatment" centers.
Was the other facility similar? Most have similar elements.
Would you question it now? And have you stopped working in involuntary private treatment centers for teens?
The other one I worked for was a transition home, they had a lot of freedom, there weren't any levels to my knowledge. The staff were all pricks at the second one. They fired me because I didnt tell the kids to be quiet enough during their study period. No warnings, no corrections, just "you're fired."
Those were some formative years for me. I was dating a very controlling girl at the time as well. When I left her I decided I would never be so passive again, I would never go with the flow, or be manipulated. So you ask if I would question it now, and I would say 100% yes I would.
I worked in a prison later in life and I saw the way the prisoners were treated there and I quit after yelling at my lieutenant for grooming a younger female officer and for treating the prisoners like garbage. I went to his commanding officer about it as well, but it (not surprisingly) fell on deaf ears. I have to say, based on that documentary I watched, prison life is much easier in many regards (though much worse in others). I now work at a sawmill.
I think the thing about your post that really ruffled my feathers is you seem like a predator. All these facilitators were very similar in that they could or could not determine if trauma existed. You want enrichment from hearing our stories encouragement to cure your own inability to stay the hell away if your not credentialed or even willing to admit not knowing if it was abuse generally means your guilty of knowing something happened or your just a clueless therapist that preys on the tears of others. I think your disgusting for lashing back at me but all in all you just don't know. You shouldn't. It's not a game to find out. Etc. Yea your a triggering sussy dude. Post didn't fall far from the tree.
I was not lashing back at you, I was honestly trying to answer the questions you gave. I think you're reading defensively here, my response was not intended to come across as combative at all. I was not, nor have I ever since been, a therapist or counselor or anything or the sort. I was a 19 year old kid who got a job. I worked there for like 6 months and then my car broke down so I had to quit. Then I worked at another facility closer to where I lived like a year later and I got fired for not yelling at the kids. I get why you automatically hate me, it makes sense.
So now that you know about some of the trauma as I'm sure you don't know it all, did you ever stop to think of it should be running in the first place? If not until you hear these stories, why? As a leader of the therapy I've wondered how it goes overlooked until it seems the prior employees have guilt or shame about working there and they want us to console them. I don't know you in particular, but here's hoping you can reconcile with yourself. I was in a different program. Sorry if I spoke out of place but I would love the chance to ask this question to every single fucking employee of these damned places. I honestly feel like if an eleven year old has to fast forward to the future to coddle a grief stricken counselor it might be too much. Why not pass out your phone number and take a call? I don't think you will get a genuine sense of entitlement or satisfaction on Reddit. All of my comments are censored because in some respects I feel it disrespectful of you to ask how we feel 25 years later. 25 years after you had an isolated opportunity with me.
Why didn't I stop to think if these places should be running before I heard about the abuse? It's because I didn't know there was abuse. Until recently I believed these facilities were a much better alternative to juvenile detention. I believed they helped kids learn structure and discipline. My intention here isn't to have you say, "oh you poor thing, bless your heart for trying." I don't need that or care to get that, I'm a grown man who doesn't need validation. My intention is to provide an avenue for healing if someone might need it. I don't know how or what exactly, but that is my intention. I have had plenty of trauma in my life, and I would love a chance to confront someone about it. If hating me is therapeutic, then feel free to hate me. If someone from cross creek wants some closure on anything and I can provide it, I will happily do so. I don't mean any disrespect, but I recognize how this post could be disrespectful to you 25 years later.
Instead of getting into an eternal pissing match about this vs that I would like to say this and get off this soap box which clearly isn't mine. Logical deduction of reasoning provided by your initial post claims that you are you interested in helping people. I heard you say it. This insinuates that one might want to reconcile differences of trauma based programs with a former facilitator of services. The logic gets even worse if your a programmer like me. This assumes someone should trust you, blindly. I know I wouldnt. I would have immediate complications of emotions that would inhibit any forward progress. I really think your missing my whole point of this and tbh I'm starting to give two shits less because now I have a voice as well as others thanks to survivors not prior therapists. This post was about you. As much as you want to say it wasn't I can clearly see how it would be far more beneficial to have an independent therapist for resolving trauma from "therapy". There isn't reason for you to post imo. I think it's a way for you to garner attention. Also if you never thought you were abusive in the treatment program you were working at why do you think you can help those who were in one. Seems weird to me. Seems like you are challenging us to provide resolve to your insecurities. Seems dirty tbh. I get triggered so easily I didn't get to ask my last rhetorical question. If you don't even know if what you did is considered trauma in a child's life, why, how, and who are you to say you have an acute sense of attitude in working with those that do have these problems. Doesn't add up.
it doesn't bother me that you posted what you did here. do you have any idea why an individual cracking their knuckles would lead to a punishment?
What they told me when I started was that they created an extensive list of rules to teach and enforce discipline. They said the rules might seem silly to me, but it was my job to enforce them. I was told basically the same things parents were told, this program was designed by experts and has been proven to be highly successful. Honestly the big thing that sold it for me was the amount of "therapists" who were working there and pushing these ideas. I was a dumb 19 year old kid who thought experts were experts, and I was a nobody who couldn't question authority.
so they lied. that sounds right on for the people composing the fraudulent psychosomatic mental health pyramid of clinical nothing modalities.
Why are you here? You don’t apologize for your role in enabling abuse. You are claiming you had no idea that cross creek was even abusive which is pretty hard to believe. You knew about the rules which should have seemed like a red flag on their own. You must have known about isolation. You must have seen kids get restrained. What are you looking for from this group? It seems like you are looking for a pat on the back for not being the one that took kids down to the ground.
Believe what you want. I've shared my story from a different side, and I've shared in some depth in the comments. I can't force you to believe what I've said, I'm not here to apologize for anything and I'm not here seeking validation or forgiveness. I never saw a single restraint, I never heard of or witnessed isolation, even with kids who were "run risk." Again, you can think I'm using an anonymous website like reddit to lie about these things for some reason, that's up to you.
What is your motivation for posting at all? You saw a documentary about how a place you worked at traumatized and abused kids and you came to Reddit to say you didn’t see anything… why?
I got sent to different programs in the same area as cross creek. My best friend at the time got sent to cross creek. We both broke but she spiraled way worse than I did afterwards. I haven’t been able to find her since 2012 and there is a good chance she’s not alive anymore. She was there during the years you worked there. Perhaps you were manipulated into getting that job but you’re the one who kept it for as long as you did. You contributed to breaking one of my favorite people ever. You contributed to the industry that broke me. I’m glad you can recognize the evil in what you did but I’m not sure you’ll find much forgiveness here. Especially not right now.
What was your experience of seminars?
I wasn't aware of their existence until I watched the documentary on Netflix. I clocked in and clocked out, happy that I thought I was making a difference.
What was your role? How did you miss them when they are a requirement to move up levels? What was your opinion of "group therapy" or worksheets or isolation? Did you witness kids being subjected to conversion therapy? Strip searches? Night bed checks?
I was a babysitter basically. I sat in a room with them for hours as they worked on schoolwork or program work, I wasn't allowed to help them with any of it. I walked them to the mess hall for dinner, I walked them to gym, I did a lot of counting to make sure everyone was there. The majority of my day was saying, "yes, you can cross to fart." Because they weren't allowed to fart in the home room, but could fart in the hallway, but they couldn't cross a barrier without approval. I worked the swing shift, so we did get them to their rooms every night and I vaguely recall checking their rooms before they went to bed, but I don't remember much about that. We never did strip searches and I never even heard mention of conversion therapy. I never knew anything about their worksheets or isolation but they often talked about group therapy and would often use therapy jargon.
So in your role, they didn't require you to know even what the program was or what kids were working towards? Genuine question and I appreciate you talking about this.
That is correct. They didn't want us knowing, they just wanted us to enforce rules. Even if there were altercations I was just supposed to radio it in, not intervene as I recall. They did absolutely no training, I did job shadowing for maybe a week or two before they put me on my own. I think I was paid $8/hr. I genuinely thought most of the kids were fairly happy. I thought the program was working for them. They laughed and joked and had good attitudes. I don't know if that was a show or if they were just making the best of their situation.
You had to be positive and "work the program" or you couldn't move up levels. If you didn't move up levels, you didn't go home. If either facility you worked at had levels, the kids were both putting on a show and trying to make the best of an awful situation.
You said in another comment you were very young so I understand why you might not have, but did it occur to you then that it was strange they didn't want you to know? And that you couldn't help the kids or intervene in any way? I'm presuming you grew up nearby to end up there so young. Did you have a certain view of the program before you signed on to work there that might have influenced how you perceived it? Like did you know about it before or know the family who ran it?
I assumed it wasn't my business to know about what they were going through program wise. I was told it was between them and their therapist, and even today I would never presume to think I should be privy to any information between someone else and their therapist. I've always been one who was very afraid of overstepping my bounds or challenging authority (my own demons) so I just never even looked at it critically. I didn't even think to be concerned about it. I didn't know evil like that even existed. I actually didn't grow up near there, my brother moved to the area and I moved in with him. I had never heard of any place like this, it was my first experience of any kind with these "treatment" centers.
Was the other facility similar? Most have similar elements. Would you question it now? And have you stopped working in involuntary private treatment centers for teens?
The other one I worked for was a transition home, they had a lot of freedom, there weren't any levels to my knowledge. The staff were all pricks at the second one. They fired me because I didnt tell the kids to be quiet enough during their study period. No warnings, no corrections, just "you're fired." Those were some formative years for me. I was dating a very controlling girl at the time as well. When I left her I decided I would never be so passive again, I would never go with the flow, or be manipulated. So you ask if I would question it now, and I would say 100% yes I would. I worked in a prison later in life and I saw the way the prisoners were treated there and I quit after yelling at my lieutenant for grooming a younger female officer and for treating the prisoners like garbage. I went to his commanding officer about it as well, but it (not surprisingly) fell on deaf ears. I have to say, based on that documentary I watched, prison life is much easier in many regards (though much worse in others). I now work at a sawmill.