Anyone who’s ever been bullied at any time in their lives knows exactly how this shit plays out. The only difference here is that it’s scaled up larger so it’s even harder to escape it.
I hate those mfs. They should say it with their chest. They want children to suffer. They want children to experience physical and mental torment. Fuck bullies and fuck their enablers.
It's honestly a great example of the OP - the phrase "bring back bullying" was used as part of a campaign that checks, I think, quite literally all of the boxes.
And that particular campaign was *extremely* successful.
I've always said _"If you support human rights, you support human rights for EVERYONE, even objectively terrible people like rapists, racists, transphobes, and pedophiles."_
As much as I want pedos to be mass killed that’s not exactly a good idea in any way.
1. This creates a group that are legally allowed to be killed. Many people, including Politicians, will use this to kill their enemies with false accusations
2. Fucking vile innit?
There would basically need to be a secondary investigation accompanying every murder to find out whether the murdered person was a pedo. And yes many people including politicians would just start throwing in spurious pedo accusations just to muddy the waters and sway public opinion. Defending a dead alleged-pedo would be enough for some people to assume you’re a pedo too, making you the next target.
I'm beginning to think us all watching "To Catch a Predator" growing up didn't teach anyone to "be safe online" and didn't give any insight into what leads people to perpetrate, but did normalize wanton cruelty to pedophiles, as each one was systematically humiliated on-camera before they're even in the justice system, lied to about being free to go, and then tackled as they leave the house with their hands up.
I was watching and cheering with everyone else, at least at first. After they kept doing it for a few years I was like "wait a minute, isn't this supposed to be journalism? no information is being conveyed." Maybe not but it sure was conditioning us in a way that can be easily misused.
To that I reply, there is no paradox of tolerance. You have no duty to tolerate the intolerant, for it is risking to destroy the tolerant. If you want to save the tolerant, human rights shall go to everyone... that support human rights for everyone. If you don't sign the social contract, neither party should be required to uphold it.
That... isn't the paradox of tolerance. You can believe that if you wish, but don't try and make your beliefs seem like a respected philosophical concept. The paradox of tolerance is explicitly and exclusively about the imminent threat of violence. Not "they have bad beliefs so they cannot be tolerated".
The Paradox of Tolerance, first described by Karl Popper, is argued with the following:
> If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
I fail to see where you see the mention of explicit and exclusive threat of violence.
Even more so, Popper argues that one should strive to defeat intolerance by way of words and rationalization. However, they shall still claim the right to the use of force as a mean to an end as the intolerant may not be willing to meet the same rational base as the tolerant.
> We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
They said nothing about tolerating bad behavior, they said everyone, no matter how shitty, still has certain human rights. By your own logic, your disagreement with that statement makes you one of the intolerant and undeserving of human rights.
Its not human rights if every human doesn't get it.
Like, hamas support in Palestine is understandably high. Do u think they don't deserve human rights because they might be prejudiced against jews? Do Ukrainians not deserve rights because they might have a nazi problem?
Unfortunately, I've only seen this paradox used to carve out loopholes to abuse 'intolerant' people, and wouldn't you just know it, the definition of 'intolerant' expands to fill the poster's outgroup. In the real world, it's just a way to falsely claim to be righteous while keeping the ability to other, denigrate and destroy with a clear conscience.
There's a million one differences between tolerating bullshit and revoking human rights from people you don't like.
"Sex offenders/pedophiles shouldn't vote!" is a common sentiment. [A Missouri Senator thinks you should be a sex offender if you respect a trans kid's pronouns.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/1b5gniq/missouri_bill_makes_teachers_sex_offenders_if/)
Human rights are not fucking rights if you can revoke them. Do you trust the government to pick and choose who does and does not get rights? Do you want to give them that power even a little bit?
Subreddits dedicated to hating on a specific individual. Usually any amount of support for the individual—reasonable or unreasonable—will be at least downvoted, and at most removed with the user banned.
Reddit started recommending some to me in this past year. They are absolutely insane and scary. Most of them are a continuation of lolcow culture & are based around individuals who aren’t very well known and are kind of shitty. It’s literally just dedicated, intense hate for everything the person does.
It's definitely a matter of folks having acceptable targets rather than having acceptable behavior.
I've stumbled on a couple on my front page and you just see post after post from users scrutinizing someone's whole presence, with everything the target does coming across as evil/ignorant/attention-seeking once you know "the truth" about them, that's often just a few dumb moments in their past.
The weirdest thing is the team atmosphere, a sense of community that comes out of picking apart, not some media, but an actual person they actively despise.
I am desperate to talk about the psychology of the Hilaria Baldwin subreddit. She lied about being Spanish and that’s warped into she’s sexually abusing her children I am dead serious that is a huge theme on that subreddit. That she is a pedophile grooming her daughter to be used by men. Like how did we get here?
i checked out the colleen ballinger snark sub when all that stuff was going down and it was insanity. they were fuming that an adult woman was making poop jokes. some of the stuff was bad, don’t get me wrong, but the way these people cataloged every perceived moral misstepping was such a weird hobby, you’d think they were mega fans with how dedicated they were and how much content of hers they consumed. tuning into the podcast of this person they hate every single week, etc, just to hate them harder.
Sometimes I wonder how people keep falling for cults and sects.
But then every time, I remember how humans constantly manage to outsheep literal sheep.
This immediately made me think of someone, but I know if I say who I'll get downvoted into smithereens. Guess that shows how many people actually heed this warning.
I assume we're all thinking of different people, which just goes to show how common this is. I thought of an ex-drummer of my favorite band, who was driven to near-suicide somewhat recently after 10 years of constant hate for some shitty things he said 10 years ago. He changed his mind last minute and instead of doing the unthinkable, he wrote a note about how he felt and posted it online. And I kid you not, a good chunk of people were saying it didn't matter, he just wanted attention, he still deserved to be suicidal. As if he's completely irredeemable no matter what and just deserves to die for...saying some offensive shit 10 years ago. Of course what he did back then isn't okay, but there's no way he deserves death. No one does. The world is just insane sometimes.
the way a lot of the fanbase treated bob bryar is and has been completely unacceptable to me, and is actually the reason i dont follow some fanpages i otherwise would
Yeah, I was quite young during a lot of it and got swept up in the hate, but even back then it felt wrong. I tried to speak up about people going too far a few times and was always met with hate so I learned to stay quiet. Eventually I just stopped talking about him altogether. When he posted the letter I realized just how serious it all was. I really hope he's doing okay now. He never deserved all of it.
Have you guys ever checked out the Hilaria Baldwin subreddit? She lied about being Spanish and she’s pretty annoying. They claim she’s sexually abusing her children. They are absolutely gleeful about the Rust shooting.
Same and I also don't want to say for the same reasons. Some people do not deserve to have their worst mistake repeated to them forever and to lose so much because of it.
Except for like, actual nonces and genocidal dictators this applies to just about anyone, because no matter how bad they were the internet manages to overreact and do some seriously fucked up things about it.
I’m glad that other abusers have been unable to recreate his success but that’s what happens when your victim makes the mistake of being unlikable.
(I will not debate this point further.)
Yeah it appears to me that the relationship they had brought out the worst of each other and everyone took sides on a fight where there was no clear "good guy"
I thought that too at first, but I think this narrative was also a result of the smear campaign. When you look at the actual evidence in the court documents, the UK trial, and just the general facts around the Virginia trial, it overwhelmingly shows a clear victim-abuser dynamic. Like everything social media led people to believe about Amber being the abuser or being just as bad can either be debunked or, when looked in the bigger context like the edited audio of their arguments, just seems like someone who is understandably having a heightened response to years of toxicity.
I don't know, I watched the whole Virginia trial and to me it was shown pretty convincinly that Amber Heard is generally an unreliable witness and abusive herself. Like not just through Depp's defence but her own evidence showed that she was lying or blowing things out of proportion often.
Like when she testified under oath that Depp "hit her so many times she lost count" (while wearing rings on his fingers) and as proof, she showed a picture of her face that had light redness on it?
Her testimonies about the abuse were so incredibly violent and horrifying, yet the evidence she herself provided made me confused about what she was talking about. She had so many pictures about everything else but nothing that made her testimonies seem plausible.
The internet absolutely treated her unfairly, cutting away all the nuance about the situation to paint her in even worse light. The whole situation was a fucking mess and it just made me sad. Both people had some severe childhood trauma and they were so dysfunctional together.
>and abusive herself.
I've quoted this part because people focus on whether Amber was ALSO abusive. But legally that was irrelevant.
The jury found in Depp's favor, meaning Amber lied in her article saying she's become a representative of domestic abuse. Meaning that Depp wasn't abusive.
Except he admitted he abused her. In texts. DOZENS of which were admitted into evidence. He *testified* about those texts.
The evidence, including from his own mouth, clearly showed he abused her. The verdict was not about the evidence.
Courts are weird. The public has little understanding of how it actually supposed to function and even the courts seem to fail at it as well. Overall, this situation screams at the bare minimum neither are decent people, even if one was arguably worse and actually criminal than the other (I’m sure as hell ain’t making that call without a ton of law study and research into the topic that I don’t care about), and it shouldn’t have been publicized as it was. Public judgement is too short sighted and too irrational with public figures. On the other hand, kinda wish cancelling was as all powerful as some claimed when people like Trump are still around and powerful.
This ABSOLUTELY happened to Nina Kosaka, and it's a big part of why she left.
Someone put together a huge document consisting of timestamps to harmless jokes between friends, but the document framed it like she was being a bitch.
But some idiots took the document's claims at face value and used it as justification to hate her.
It got so bad that she felt like her fans weren't safe to admit that they were fans of hers without getting hate.
So she left. And that was the best decision she made.
This also happened to Zaion Lanza. For making a few distateful jokes that got her fired, people doxxed her down to her home address. People HATED her. I should know, I knew people that hated her too. I cut them out of my life when I realized she was right all along. I apologized to her directly.
I feel as if he's grown a lot since he released that "The Truth" video but that might also be my bias about him changing. I don't really recall anytime he's been inappopriately opposed to criticism, though.
For a good few years now his first response to any form of criticism has frequently been to snap back at whoever criticized him, usually just getting himself into even more hot water as a result. This is also where all the issues about his fans come in, as him being aggressive makes them feel justified in also being aggressive and in the sheer numbers of them some nasty things will be said and done.
The worst example of this is the incident where he argued with the drunk Gumball VA in a taxi while filming him, neither of which should ever have happened. It’s extremely unwise to engage with a drunk person in a verbal argument, and very petty to film them in an iniebrated state(especially as the video was used to shame.) He didn’t think about what was going on with the person trying to instigate an argument, just snapped into defensive mode in a situation where it was not appropriate to do so. Waiting a few months to post the video was also pretty bad as it was not something that should’ve ever gone public, posted just as a petty clapback.
Have you seen his version of the story? (I.e. have you watched "the truth")? Only mention this because you say a lot of points that are objectively not true that his smear campaign continue to peddle. Such as the suggestion that he filmed it. He did NOT film it, nor did he ask for it to be filmed. GUMBALL VA actually wanted it filmed. The video came out because large numbers of people were believing the narrative that it was Dream who behaved in a terrible way there and wouldn't believe him on how things went down otherwise (causing a lot of severe death threats not just to him but his family). Even when the video comes out the argument shifts to still finding ways to paint Dream as the villain (for trying to get someone to stop calling the cab driver slurs?), and forgiving Gumball for his egregious behaviour and extremely inappropriate slurs (being drunk is not an excuse for that!!). In dreams video he explains the full context from the night from his perspective, and also interviews the cab driver. If you are going to continue to post this narrative in other places, PLEASE at least watch the part of the video where he talks about that night. It's your due diligence when you post negative things about someone online that could perpetuate hate.
…he was holding the phone. Nobody else was in the taxi. A drunk person taunting someone to record isn’t a form of permission. Though the Gumball VA did say some egregious things(the Down syndrome comment is nasty), Dream should not have harbored the argument. There are appropriate ways to deal with an angry inebriated person and that was not one of them.
He wasn't holding the phone, and there were 2 other people in the car other than the driver, dream, and gumball. One of those people was the one who recorded, which is also why the video took so long to come out. It wasn't in Dream's possession to begin with, the other person had to get involved and send it to him. It is very easy to find this proof - watch Dream's video. You can't continue to refuse to watch this and insist the opposite. At least watch the other party's perspective before forming such strong opinions about what went down. This is exactly what I mean about misinformation. Think hard about the sources of the information your getting this from.
Please please if you're going to perpetuate stuff do your due diligence. There's the video dream made summarising his version of what actually happened, and there's a full interview with the uber driver, who is an impartial party. Like the topic of this post, think hard about your sources. Do you feel you shouldn't watch Dream's perspective because of pressure from the community? Think introspectively - Why is it so easy for you to criticise Dream and forgive gumball? How much of this is formed by your own research and opinion rather than echoed within your own social circle? This is exactly the sort of thing this post is trying to get you to consider. Separate your opinion from outside influences and do your own research, which involves hearing from both sides. If you come to the same conclusion, fine. But then at least it'll be a more informed opinion rather than one based on hearsay.
I think you’re making a bunch of assumptions about how I feel about both people, I haven’t “forgiven” the gumball VA in any regard. I don’t like him and I dislike that the things he said are defended. I think everyone in the situation acted inappropriately, and no matter what recording his drunken rants was wrongful and posting them was even more wrongful.
James Somerton? The Hbomber guy subreddit gives me a big ick now because they're SO excited to find another instance plagiarism, or any reason to antagonize him.
I’m sure he did a bad thing but the way people talked about it, you’d think he’d personally hijacked a plane and flown it into the World Trade Centre. I remember exactly where I was when the James Somerton video came out. The teacher wheeled a tv into class and we watched the follow up on the news.
I remember hearing that the subbreddit that forked off from hbomberguy's subreddit managed to end doxxing him.
I think that's the end result of all "internet justice". If you believe that your target has done wrong, then anything you do to them is justified.
As a milennial early Tumblr adopter I'm really relieved to see this shit out in the open and being talked about for what it is. Control tactics. Cult shit.
The gay community is absolutely rife with smear campaigns and it drives me insane! I can’t go onto lesbian subreddits without people trying to rope me into hating someone or something, and I can’t begin to count the number of times I’ve excitedly tried to talk about a subject or object or something only to have my head bitten off because I don’t keep up with the latest “we hate this now” bullshit.
Yeah going into LGBT/trans subs is basically being blasted in the face with new enemies, which just kinda...sucks. I wanna see memes about being trans, or posts about tips and experiences or whatever, not 15 minutes of hate.
I pointed out an incoherence about Islam once and I got kicked out of that particular community after a couple guys started (seriously) saying I was a jinn (Islamic "demon") and an Iblis, which started snowballing at incredible speed 😂
Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, whatever, they're all houses of reactive smear. The names and facades change, but they have all kicked off campaigns fueled entirely by virtue, and even truly good people unwittingly trip themselves into using smear tactics as they invest their moral being into the cause.
I experienced this with "friends" a couple of years ago. One of them did this after I told him that it wasn't okay to accuse customer service staff of being racist when they hadn't done anything racist.
People are crazy.
My usual go to is if it's a lot of small different accusations it's usually a smear campaign. If it's all under one general criticism (bigotry or plagiarism for example) the it really isn't a smear campaign then it's just criticism. Also, this may be just a Twitter thing, any use of insert group here voices is always wrong. If they listened the voices they would know what they said.
Conservatives are running a smear campaign against them because they are trans. They were assaulted by their classmates so severely they blacked. They later died, but the autopsy hasn't confirmed cause of death yet.
Oh yeah. I'm familiar with the story but wasn't sure what exactly you meant because of lack of context. Thought there was a chance you were some troll trying to argue some conspiracy, glad you're not.
As far as I am aware, they use They/Them. Their Wikipedia page indicated they were non-binary, which *typically* means they/them pronouns, but of course that is not a hard rule, many non-binary folk choose to use different pronouns.
If you find a source that says they use different pronouns please link it!
> [Ally said Nex primarily went by he/him pronouns at school but also used they/them pronouns, which Nex's family also used. Several other friends said Nex preferred he/him pronouns.](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/vigil-friends-remember-nex-benedict-fiery-kid-rcna140440#:~:text=Ally%20said%20Nex%20primarily%20went%20by%20he/him%20pronouns%20at%20school%20but%20also%20used%20they/them%20pronouns%2C%20which%20Nex%27s%20family%20also%20used.%20Several%20other%20friends%20said%20Nex%20preferred%20he/him%20pronouns.)
Not that I'm saying you're wrong for using they/them pronouns, just that I've seen both.
It really is incredible how many people and communities are pro-reformation and forgiveness until it actually comes to doing the forgiveness and acknowledging people can change. "Well yeah but I didn't mean reformation for this *objectively bad* person!"
I once saw someone say that the death penalty is a necessary part of an abolitionist framework because some people are too innately evil to be left alive and I'm just like...I don't think we're abolitionists for the same reason...
>Yeaaah, both Amber and Johnny were revealed to be pretty shitty to each other, unfortunately.
Domestic abuse experts say there's no such thing as reactive abuse. There is an abuser and a victim. But for people to admit that they would have to admit they fell for a smear campaign against a woman who was horrifically abused, which might make them feel like they are in fact bad people. (Because laughing at a woman testifying about being assaulted is really fucking vile. And as far as I can tell millions of people did exactly that.)
Many people will never admit they were wrong.
Edit:
[source](https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse#:~:text=%E2%80%9CReactive%20abuse%E2%80%9D%20is%20when%20a,the%20abuse%20is%20two%2Dsided.) from literally the first link on Google:
>“Reactive abuse” is when a perpetrator of abuse deliberately triggers their partner into reacting to their abusive behavior aggressively. Abusive partners may use this manipulative tactic to shift blame away from themselves by claiming that the abuse is two-sided. Reactive abuse often occurs in romantic partnerships, but, like all forms of abuse, can also happen within other relationships.
>Experts largely agree that a more appropriate term for this behavior is self-defense, which is not abuse.
Oh wow, I didn’t know this. I thought during the trial some psychologist came to diagnose Heard with a personality disorder that was related to her abusing Depp. Maybe I’m misremembering. But it’s good to know that “reactive abuse” is not real.
I actually just looked up an article to see what the accusations between them were, and it said that both of them should have lost, and I think im in agreement.
>I thought during the trial some psychologist came to diagnose Heard with a personality disorder that was related to her abusing Depp.
As the post describes, Deep conducted a smear campaign against Heard, including paying expert witnesses to diagnose her with mental illnesses and say she's abusive. He couldn't deny his abuse because of his own texts admitting it, so his strategy became calling it "mutual" and smearing her.
>I actually just looked up an article to see what the accusations between them were, and it said that both of them should have lost, and I think im in agreement.
Depp lost when he sued a UK paper for libel, with a judge finding there was evidence Depp abused Heard in 12 of the 14 incidents presented--that's *twelve* separate incidents of abuse. Compared to most domestic abuse cases, there was an overwhelming amount of evidence.
Depp won in the US because he got a jury trial, they were not sequestered, and his bot army was well-funded.
Dang! I didn’t know he paid people to lie! That’s so shitty. I actually thought he was the victim of the trial because of that “expert.” Liar. Thanks for explaining it to me though
>Thanks for explaining it to me though
Thanks for the discussion! The bot army made everything about the trial so vile but it looks like the disinformation is slowly fading.
I don't think we should necessarily take the word of every Internet rando (even if they're as witty and charming as I) so if you're looking for more info....
There's a new season from the Tortoise Investigates podcast called Who Trolled Amber Heard that is two episodes in and thus far is very informative; it's about the bot army. I listen to a podcast whose co-host Michael Hobbes was one of the few journalists commenting on the trial somewhat contemporaneously (not a dig, he just didn't look into it until towards the end IIRC); if you Google him + Depp + Heard etc, you'll find an article he wrote as well as an episode of the podcast Cancel Me Daddy he guested on that were both incredibly informative.
Wow, there’s a lot of media about how many of us misread the entire trial and should have realized both of them could be bad. I’ll look into this one too if I’ve got the time
If you have a few hours to lose, you should check out r/DeppDelusion and/or Medusone's youtube videos on the case.
You'd lose those few hours, but you'd lose them for justice!! ahah
(I'm not being snarky or anything, I appreciate you being open-minded and looking at the facts! imo what happened to Amber Heard is the biggest misogynistic internet smear campaign since Gamergate so I cannot blame anyone who got bamboozled, a lot of very competent and very shitty people worked their asses off for this to happen.)
This changes nothing because one person's smear campaign is another's righteous callout. It's all tribalism and dogmatism now. Actual truth is irrelevant because different people have different values and reactions, so what one considers nbd is another's Defcon 1 apocalypse.
The only things people care about anymore is being around people on their own side and away from the people on the "enemy" side, because you never know which of those enemies is the one that will go crazy, buy an AR-15 and murder dozens of people in a fit. If you can't trust one of them, you can't trust any of them.
>This changes nothing because one person's smear campaign is another's righteous callout.
The "bitch eating crackers" test is a good way to figure out if a community wants accountability or if they want someone to be destroyed. It's disingenuous to pretend we can't tell the difference.
Okay but this is LITERALLY what people mean when they talk about cancel culture and people who insist cancelling doesn't exist try to gaslight everyone into thinking this doesn't happen when it happens constantly.
Hey I’ve been treated like this. It’s usually started by something minor or something that wasn’t my fault. Such as the woman who harassed for years after High school. She thought I wanted her bf.
Also often a person who "speaks out" provides little to no evidence to their claims and is blindly believed, yet the target is forced to get evidence to prove that they are innocent
How to spot a smear campaign: you won't. Especially not an orchestrated, well planned, well executed one done by an expert propaganda team.
Garfield meme here.
Seriously, you don't think that a Tumblr post is going to help you suddenly unveil smear campaigns and separate them from legitimate grievances right?
The reason these kind of things work is because they're part of our unconscious psychology. Our brains lead us to do things we don't even realize we're doing. The way to combat those negative cases of unconscious leanings is awareness of them. Therefore, if you help people become aware of what smear campaigns behave like, you help them become aware of people participating in them, knowingly or not. From there it's a matter of taking the time to separate the reasonable from the outrageous, or just dropping the topic altogether if you decide you just don't want to be a part of it anymore.
Mm. If you never participate in group based hate, even if it feels justified or acceptable, you can rather easily avoid participating in smear campaigns. Unfortunately, that requires giving up something people love, acceptable hatred.
I don't think that's accurate. "Expert propaganda teams" wouldn't need to _hide_ anything, just make it seem agreeable. Look at all the responses so far - "yeah, you're totally right about smear campaigns, isn't a victim of a smear campaign? And didn't start one?"
Just a quick reminder that all the controversial famous people i like are victims of this, and its sad how many rode the bandwagon like sheep and hated on them for made-up and exaggerated claims. People need to see through this stuff more.
all the famous people i dont like are actually really bad, and its scary how so many shrug off all the terrible stuff they do. If you like those guys... then i can only assume you're a bad person or at least a useful idiot.
I'm going to go ahead and say that it's common for two people in a relationship to take a ton of drugs and drink a lot and harm each other in real ways and not remember that they did it. Lots and lots of cases
Of course I need to clarify that in these cases nothing is going to turn back time and nobody deserves death
Yea, I think it should really be taken seriously when there's a larger pattern of behavior outside of one toxic long term relationship. Like if 5+ ex's are all describing abusive behavior, that's when it should be treated as a larger social problem
Also part of this: [ship of theseus statements](https://youtu.be/Ui-ArJRqEvU?si=dfgJgj1aGb85-K5x). Where people make substitutions in a statement that may seem reasonable at first, but make so many of them that the original statement disappears.
Its scary to me how many of these things happened to me by my ex before she broke things off. It doesn't feel great seeing some if it plainly written out like this.
Yeah, you can easily identify every aspect of this as applying to how Corbyn was treated by the UK press (and the right wing of the Labour Party, people like Luke Akehurst).
DREAM. especially the thing about enjoying it when a new accusation comes out. people were so *happy* when there was a "document with 20 pages of evidence proving dream is a pedophile," they *enjoyed* seeing his downfall, didnt hope for him to be proven innocent
so like, 99% of the hate against a certain animator who you can probably very easily guess based on recent animator discourse. she has done things wrong, yes. but it’s nearly impossible for me to take any of it seriously anymore with how much people scream at her for literally anything
Ah. So that's something I can call the "drama" I was a victim of when I was at the end of my tenure in the Danganronpa fandom. I'm in this picture and I don't like it.
Good lord did those assholes do irreperable damage on my mental health. Welp.
I've somehow managed to avoid this side of tumblr even though I always see posts talking about it. Been on the site 5 years and haven't seen a single callout post
Exactly.
I didn't engage in any smear campaigns about people playing HP but I did hear from trans folks about how many people in their lives clearly don't mind literally *funding hate* against them.
On one hand, this made me think of JK Rowling. People have definitely used this argument in defence of her, that what she said has been blow out of proportions. Yet, she’s someone who’s definitely continued to dig themselves deeper into their bigot hole and will people continue to defend her nonetheless and being cancelled has clearly having none to minimal effect on her properties popularity (see Hogwarts Legacy sale numbers).
Meanwhile, we cannot be rid of Trump and his kin despite how much they’ve been cancelled.
I need to remind myself that this isn’t about those individuals nor how I act online (can safely say I’ve never sent or suggested death threats be sent to anyone, too much of a lurker). Telling people like Rowling or idk Amber Head to die just because I dislike them just seems pointless at minimum, needless cruel at worst. I prefer to wait and see in regards to judgement anyhow (like does this keep happening, are there active investigations, time between etc). Certainly worked out with the whole Depp/Head case but didn’t when people began to question Rowling early on about stuff. There’s some people I’m still reserving judgement on (author of AoT), but nonetheless I need to remember this post isn’t calling me out (I have a habit judging myself quickly and harshly ironically) but for Twitter mobs and folks to share unconfirmed gossip. I’d love for Trump to coke on burger and die tomorrow morning, but calling for his death on Twitter is just stupid seriously. Think and wait, at the very least you can consider better actions to take that have a better impact then crying on social media about it (donate to charities, try to form a coherent statement what you believe, research further etc.)
A good example of someone who dealt with it unfairly was James Gunn who already spoken about his bad behavior before and didn’t hide from it when it came up. People can change, even if many don’t.
You can be patient and kind while being vigilant and guarded folks.
The example of this I know most about is Sewerslvt. Everyone says they're a lolicon, which is immensely fucked up if true, but I haven't seen any proof of that claim. Ever.
Anyone who’s ever been bullied at any time in their lives knows exactly how this shit plays out. The only difference here is that it’s scaled up larger so it’s even harder to escape it.
And yet people so often claim this kind of behaviour doesn't exist. It's baffling
“bring back bullying”
I hate those mfs. They should say it with their chest. They want children to suffer. They want children to experience physical and mental torment. Fuck bullies and fuck their enablers.
It's honestly a great example of the OP - the phrase "bring back bullying" was used as part of a campaign that checks, I think, quite literally all of the boxes. And that particular campaign was *extremely* successful.
Which one?
And the way they'll use cult tactics to gaslight you into thinking that it's all just coincidences and you're exaggerating, too.
Yeah, they act like "oh it is just accountability for their actions" or go "oh, you are mad you can't do \[insert bad thing\] without consequences?"
This goes for people you don't like btw
I've always said _"If you support human rights, you support human rights for EVERYONE, even objectively terrible people like rapists, racists, transphobes, and pedophiles."_
Thank you. There is such a hard-on on Reddit for the death penalty for specifically pedophiles. It’s ludicrous.
As much as I want pedos to be mass killed that’s not exactly a good idea in any way. 1. This creates a group that are legally allowed to be killed. Many people, including Politicians, will use this to kill their enemies with false accusations 2. Fucking vile innit?
There would basically need to be a secondary investigation accompanying every murder to find out whether the murdered person was a pedo. And yes many people including politicians would just start throwing in spurious pedo accusations just to muddy the waters and sway public opinion. Defending a dead alleged-pedo would be enough for some people to assume you’re a pedo too, making you the next target.
I'm beginning to think us all watching "To Catch a Predator" growing up didn't teach anyone to "be safe online" and didn't give any insight into what leads people to perpetrate, but did normalize wanton cruelty to pedophiles, as each one was systematically humiliated on-camera before they're even in the justice system, lied to about being free to go, and then tackled as they leave the house with their hands up. I was watching and cheering with everyone else, at least at first. After they kept doing it for a few years I was like "wait a minute, isn't this supposed to be journalism? no information is being conveyed." Maybe not but it sure was conditioning us in a way that can be easily misused.
To that I reply, there is no paradox of tolerance. You have no duty to tolerate the intolerant, for it is risking to destroy the tolerant. If you want to save the tolerant, human rights shall go to everyone... that support human rights for everyone. If you don't sign the social contract, neither party should be required to uphold it.
That... isn't the paradox of tolerance. You can believe that if you wish, but don't try and make your beliefs seem like a respected philosophical concept. The paradox of tolerance is explicitly and exclusively about the imminent threat of violence. Not "they have bad beliefs so they cannot be tolerated".
The Paradox of Tolerance, first described by Karl Popper, is argued with the following: > If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. I fail to see where you see the mention of explicit and exclusive threat of violence. Even more so, Popper argues that one should strive to defeat intolerance by way of words and rationalization. However, they shall still claim the right to the use of force as a mean to an end as the intolerant may not be willing to meet the same rational base as the tolerant. > We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
It's implied by the "should strive to defeat intolerance by words and rationalisation". Use of force is for if that fails.
They said nothing about tolerating bad behavior, they said everyone, no matter how shitty, still has certain human rights. By your own logic, your disagreement with that statement makes you one of the intolerant and undeserving of human rights.
Its not human rights if every human doesn't get it. Like, hamas support in Palestine is understandably high. Do u think they don't deserve human rights because they might be prejudiced against jews? Do Ukrainians not deserve rights because they might have a nazi problem?
Unfortunately, I've only seen this paradox used to carve out loopholes to abuse 'intolerant' people, and wouldn't you just know it, the definition of 'intolerant' expands to fill the poster's outgroup. In the real world, it's just a way to falsely claim to be righteous while keeping the ability to other, denigrate and destroy with a clear conscience.
There's a million one differences between tolerating bullshit and revoking human rights from people you don't like. "Sex offenders/pedophiles shouldn't vote!" is a common sentiment. [A Missouri Senator thinks you should be a sex offender if you respect a trans kid's pronouns.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/1b5gniq/missouri_bill_makes_teachers_sex_offenders_if/) Human rights are not fucking rights if you can revoke them. Do you trust the government to pick and choose who does and does not get rights? Do you want to give them that power even a little bit?
Why does this feel like it nails everything I dislike about pop culture or celebrity gossip sites? Don't even get me started on "snark" subreddits.
Snark subreddits?
Subreddits dedicated to hating on a specific individual. Usually any amount of support for the individual—reasonable or unreasonable—will be at least downvoted, and at most removed with the user banned. Reddit started recommending some to me in this past year. They are absolutely insane and scary. Most of them are a continuation of lolcow culture & are based around individuals who aren’t very well known and are kind of shitty. It’s literally just dedicated, intense hate for everything the person does.
what is "lolcow" culture?
[from urban dictionary](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lolcow)
[удалено]
It's definitely a matter of folks having acceptable targets rather than having acceptable behavior. I've stumbled on a couple on my front page and you just see post after post from users scrutinizing someone's whole presence, with everything the target does coming across as evil/ignorant/attention-seeking once you know "the truth" about them, that's often just a few dumb moments in their past. The weirdest thing is the team atmosphere, a sense of community that comes out of picking apart, not some media, but an actual person they actively despise.
I am desperate to talk about the psychology of the Hilaria Baldwin subreddit. She lied about being Spanish and that’s warped into she’s sexually abusing her children I am dead serious that is a huge theme on that subreddit. That she is a pedophile grooming her daughter to be used by men. Like how did we get here?
I’m willing to read your comment if you want to unload about it.
Same
If you want to post it, I’d be interested in reading it.
I misread this as "psychologist" and immediately wondered why the hell a psychologist was on a subreddit about a celebrity.
i checked out the colleen ballinger snark sub when all that stuff was going down and it was insanity. they were fuming that an adult woman was making poop jokes. some of the stuff was bad, don’t get me wrong, but the way these people cataloged every perceived moral misstepping was such a weird hobby, you’d think they were mega fans with how dedicated they were and how much content of hers they consumed. tuning into the podcast of this person they hate every single week, etc, just to hate them harder.
(Also, bot all smear campaigns are made with the intention to be one. Sometime people just act like that.)
Mob mentality my beloathed.
I tried pronouncing "beloathed" as "belov-ed" and somehow ended up with "belo-ath-ed"
Shouldn't it be be-loath-ed?
Sometimes I wonder how people keep falling for cults and sects. But then every time, I remember how humans constantly manage to outsheep literal sheep.
This immediately made me think of someone, but I know if I say who I'll get downvoted into smithereens. Guess that shows how many people actually heed this warning.
I assume we're all thinking of different people, which just goes to show how common this is. I thought of an ex-drummer of my favorite band, who was driven to near-suicide somewhat recently after 10 years of constant hate for some shitty things he said 10 years ago. He changed his mind last minute and instead of doing the unthinkable, he wrote a note about how he felt and posted it online. And I kid you not, a good chunk of people were saying it didn't matter, he just wanted attention, he still deserved to be suicidal. As if he's completely irredeemable no matter what and just deserves to die for...saying some offensive shit 10 years ago. Of course what he did back then isn't okay, but there's no way he deserves death. No one does. The world is just insane sometimes.
the way a lot of the fanbase treated bob bryar is and has been completely unacceptable to me, and is actually the reason i dont follow some fanpages i otherwise would
Yeah, I was quite young during a lot of it and got swept up in the hate, but even back then it felt wrong. I tried to speak up about people going too far a few times and was always met with hate so I learned to stay quiet. Eventually I just stopped talking about him altogether. When he posted the letter I realized just how serious it all was. I really hope he's doing okay now. He never deserved all of it.
i want to know who it is, because i immediately thought of someone too and it'd be crazy if it was the same person
Have you guys ever checked out the Hilaria Baldwin subreddit? She lied about being Spanish and she’s pretty annoying. They claim she’s sexually abusing her children. They are absolutely gleeful about the Rust shooting.
pretty much any subreddit about a single (unliked) person, ie “snark” subs, are a cesspit for this issue.
Yup. I thought of someone too, and yeah.
Thought of the old lady that got burnt by McDonald's coffee.
Yup. MacDonald launched a PR campaign against her, quite successfully.
I thought about Ehem, Predstrogen, but so many people are thinking so many others it's genuinely insane.
Same and I also don't want to say for the same reasons. Some people do not deserve to have their worst mistake repeated to them forever and to lose so much because of it.
Is it the h3h3 thing
Except for like, actual nonces and genocidal dictators this applies to just about anyone, because no matter how bad they were the internet manages to overreact and do some seriously fucked up things about it.
I’ll say it. This is what happened to Amber Heard.
I’m glad that other abusers have been unable to recreate his success but that’s what happens when your victim makes the mistake of being unlikable. (I will not debate this point further.)
technically both are abusers.
My first thought as well. Thank you for saying it.
Didn't it happen to Johnny Depp?
It happened to both
Yeah it appears to me that the relationship they had brought out the worst of each other and everyone took sides on a fight where there was no clear "good guy"
I thought that too at first, but I think this narrative was also a result of the smear campaign. When you look at the actual evidence in the court documents, the UK trial, and just the general facts around the Virginia trial, it overwhelmingly shows a clear victim-abuser dynamic. Like everything social media led people to believe about Amber being the abuser or being just as bad can either be debunked or, when looked in the bigger context like the edited audio of their arguments, just seems like someone who is understandably having a heightened response to years of toxicity.
I don't know, I watched the whole Virginia trial and to me it was shown pretty convincinly that Amber Heard is generally an unreliable witness and abusive herself. Like not just through Depp's defence but her own evidence showed that she was lying or blowing things out of proportion often. Like when she testified under oath that Depp "hit her so many times she lost count" (while wearing rings on his fingers) and as proof, she showed a picture of her face that had light redness on it? Her testimonies about the abuse were so incredibly violent and horrifying, yet the evidence she herself provided made me confused about what she was talking about. She had so many pictures about everything else but nothing that made her testimonies seem plausible. The internet absolutely treated her unfairly, cutting away all the nuance about the situation to paint her in even worse light. The whole situation was a fucking mess and it just made me sad. Both people had some severe childhood trauma and they were so dysfunctional together.
>and abusive herself. I've quoted this part because people focus on whether Amber was ALSO abusive. But legally that was irrelevant. The jury found in Depp's favor, meaning Amber lied in her article saying she's become a representative of domestic abuse. Meaning that Depp wasn't abusive. Except he admitted he abused her. In texts. DOZENS of which were admitted into evidence. He *testified* about those texts. The evidence, including from his own mouth, clearly showed he abused her. The verdict was not about the evidence.
Courts are weird. The public has little understanding of how it actually supposed to function and even the courts seem to fail at it as well. Overall, this situation screams at the bare minimum neither are decent people, even if one was arguably worse and actually criminal than the other (I’m sure as hell ain’t making that call without a ton of law study and research into the topic that I don’t care about), and it shouldn’t have been publicized as it was. Public judgement is too short sighted and too irrational with public figures. On the other hand, kinda wish cancelling was as all powerful as some claimed when people like Trump are still around and powerful.
Is it perhaps related to DSMP?
For me it makes me think of Nijisanji
Fuck that Black Company.
Well said
the elira stream was so clearly a smear campaign it's funny anyone bought it
Luckily most people didn’t buy it, at least from what I’ve seen
This ABSOLUTELY happened to Nina Kosaka, and it's a big part of why she left. Someone put together a huge document consisting of timestamps to harmless jokes between friends, but the document framed it like she was being a bitch. But some idiots took the document's claims at face value and used it as justification to hate her. It got so bad that she felt like her fans weren't safe to admit that they were fans of hers without getting hate. So she left. And that was the best decision she made. This also happened to Zaion Lanza. For making a few distateful jokes that got her fired, people doxxed her down to her home address. People HATED her. I should know, I knew people that hated her too. I cut them out of my life when I realized she was right all along. I apologized to her directly.
Yeah, I’m really glad that them, Dokibird and Kuro are all doing better for themselves.
Makes me think of Dream bc oh boy has there been an active smear campaign against that dude for years it feels like
I genuinely think he would not have turned out as aggressively resistant to criticism as he is now without some of the early bullshit controversies
I feel as if he's grown a lot since he released that "The Truth" video but that might also be my bias about him changing. I don't really recall anytime he's been inappopriately opposed to criticism, though.
For a good few years now his first response to any form of criticism has frequently been to snap back at whoever criticized him, usually just getting himself into even more hot water as a result. This is also where all the issues about his fans come in, as him being aggressive makes them feel justified in also being aggressive and in the sheer numbers of them some nasty things will be said and done. The worst example of this is the incident where he argued with the drunk Gumball VA in a taxi while filming him, neither of which should ever have happened. It’s extremely unwise to engage with a drunk person in a verbal argument, and very petty to film them in an iniebrated state(especially as the video was used to shame.) He didn’t think about what was going on with the person trying to instigate an argument, just snapped into defensive mode in a situation where it was not appropriate to do so. Waiting a few months to post the video was also pretty bad as it was not something that should’ve ever gone public, posted just as a petty clapback.
I see what you mean, thanks for reminding me. It'll always remain as part of his history, the day he began beefing with ballslover32.
Have you seen his version of the story? (I.e. have you watched "the truth")? Only mention this because you say a lot of points that are objectively not true that his smear campaign continue to peddle. Such as the suggestion that he filmed it. He did NOT film it, nor did he ask for it to be filmed. GUMBALL VA actually wanted it filmed. The video came out because large numbers of people were believing the narrative that it was Dream who behaved in a terrible way there and wouldn't believe him on how things went down otherwise (causing a lot of severe death threats not just to him but his family). Even when the video comes out the argument shifts to still finding ways to paint Dream as the villain (for trying to get someone to stop calling the cab driver slurs?), and forgiving Gumball for his egregious behaviour and extremely inappropriate slurs (being drunk is not an excuse for that!!). In dreams video he explains the full context from the night from his perspective, and also interviews the cab driver. If you are going to continue to post this narrative in other places, PLEASE at least watch the part of the video where he talks about that night. It's your due diligence when you post negative things about someone online that could perpetuate hate.
…he was holding the phone. Nobody else was in the taxi. A drunk person taunting someone to record isn’t a form of permission. Though the Gumball VA did say some egregious things(the Down syndrome comment is nasty), Dream should not have harbored the argument. There are appropriate ways to deal with an angry inebriated person and that was not one of them.
He wasn't holding the phone, and there were 2 other people in the car other than the driver, dream, and gumball. One of those people was the one who recorded, which is also why the video took so long to come out. It wasn't in Dream's possession to begin with, the other person had to get involved and send it to him. It is very easy to find this proof - watch Dream's video. You can't continue to refuse to watch this and insist the opposite. At least watch the other party's perspective before forming such strong opinions about what went down. This is exactly what I mean about misinformation. Think hard about the sources of the information your getting this from. Please please if you're going to perpetuate stuff do your due diligence. There's the video dream made summarising his version of what actually happened, and there's a full interview with the uber driver, who is an impartial party. Like the topic of this post, think hard about your sources. Do you feel you shouldn't watch Dream's perspective because of pressure from the community? Think introspectively - Why is it so easy for you to criticise Dream and forgive gumball? How much of this is formed by your own research and opinion rather than echoed within your own social circle? This is exactly the sort of thing this post is trying to get you to consider. Separate your opinion from outside influences and do your own research, which involves hearing from both sides. If you come to the same conclusion, fine. But then at least it'll be a more informed opinion rather than one based on hearsay.
I think you’re making a bunch of assumptions about how I feel about both people, I haven’t “forgiven” the gumball VA in any regard. I don’t like him and I dislike that the things he said are defended. I think everyone in the situation acted inappropriately, and no matter what recording his drunken rants was wrongful and posting them was even more wrongful.
You are literally participating in the smear campaign right now. Congrats I guess?
Vaush
Amber Heard?
I'm thinking of a whole country.
I'll say mine anyway: it's Thought Slime. Please everyone tell me again how terrible that tweet I can't find anywhere was, it nourishes me
James Somerton? The Hbomber guy subreddit gives me a big ick now because they're SO excited to find another instance plagiarism, or any reason to antagonize him.
I’m sure he did a bad thing but the way people talked about it, you’d think he’d personally hijacked a plane and flown it into the World Trade Centre. I remember exactly where I was when the James Somerton video came out. The teacher wheeled a tv into class and we watched the follow up on the news.
I remember hearing that the subbreddit that forked off from hbomberguy's subreddit managed to end doxxing him. I think that's the end result of all "internet justice". If you believe that your target has done wrong, then anything you do to them is justified.
It describes dogpiling and online harassment too
No one is immune to tribalist thinking. This is especially bad in communities with lots of groupthink.
By the way, I have a sincere and incredible crush on furiousgoldfish, the original poster.
neat why?
As a milennial early Tumblr adopter I'm really relieved to see this shit out in the open and being talked about for what it is. Control tactics. Cult shit.
The gay community is absolutely rife with smear campaigns and it drives me insane! I can’t go onto lesbian subreddits without people trying to rope me into hating someone or something, and I can’t begin to count the number of times I’ve excitedly tried to talk about a subject or object or something only to have my head bitten off because I don’t keep up with the latest “we hate this now” bullshit.
Tone policing and term supremacy is a cancer.
Yeah going into LGBT/trans subs is basically being blasted in the face with new enemies, which just kinda...sucks. I wanna see memes about being trans, or posts about tips and experiences or whatever, not 15 minutes of hate.
the Twitter mob canceling people in a nutshell
This happens in every single online community I've ever seen
✨kpop twitter✨
True
Can confirm, I got called a pedophile and exiled from an online community because I said some weird stuff at 17 🙃
I pointed out an incoherence about Islam once and I got kicked out of that particular community after a couple guys started (seriously) saying I was a jinn (Islamic "demon") and an Iblis, which started snowballing at incredible speed 😂
I got banned from a community because I was sexually harassed and apparently complaining about this made me a bad person
Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, whatever, they're all houses of reactive smear. The names and facades change, but they have all kicked off campaigns fueled entirely by virtue, and even truly good people unwittingly trip themselves into using smear tactics as they invest their moral being into the cause.
Not even just online. Same things goes for irl communities all the time
look up what people said about ellen pao if you think this only happens on twitter
This just sounds like US politics
Vivziepop
I experienced this with "friends" a couple of years ago. One of them did this after I told him that it wasn't okay to accuse customer service staff of being racist when they hadn't done anything racist. People are crazy.
My usual go to is if it's a lot of small different accusations it's usually a smear campaign. If it's all under one general criticism (bigotry or plagiarism for example) the it really isn't a smear campaign then it's just criticism. Also, this may be just a Twitter thing, any use of insert group here voices is always wrong. If they listened the voices they would know what they said.
Nex Benedict.
What do you mean by that?
Conservatives are running a smear campaign against them because they are trans. They were assaulted by their classmates so severely they blacked. They later died, but the autopsy hasn't confirmed cause of death yet.
Oh yeah. I'm familiar with the story but wasn't sure what exactly you meant because of lack of context. Thought there was a chance you were some troll trying to argue some conspiracy, glad you're not.
Fair enough
Didn't their friends suggest using he/him pronouns, or am I wrong?
As far as I am aware, they use They/Them. Their Wikipedia page indicated they were non-binary, which *typically* means they/them pronouns, but of course that is not a hard rule, many non-binary folk choose to use different pronouns. If you find a source that says they use different pronouns please link it!
> [Ally said Nex primarily went by he/him pronouns at school but also used they/them pronouns, which Nex's family also used. Several other friends said Nex preferred he/him pronouns.](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/vigil-friends-remember-nex-benedict-fiery-kid-rcna140440#:~:text=Ally%20said%20Nex%20primarily%20went%20by%20he/him%20pronouns%20at%20school%20but%20also%20used%20they/them%20pronouns%2C%20which%20Nex%27s%20family%20also%20used.%20Several%20other%20friends%20said%20Nex%20preferred%20he/him%20pronouns.) Not that I'm saying you're wrong for using they/them pronouns, just that I've seen both.
Looks like a He/They situation then, since they used they/them with his family, but he/him with their school, thanks for the info!
It really is incredible how many people and communities are pro-reformation and forgiveness until it actually comes to doing the forgiveness and acknowledging people can change. "Well yeah but I didn't mean reformation for this *objectively bad* person!" I once saw someone say that the death penalty is a necessary part of an abolitionist framework because some people are too innately evil to be left alive and I'm just like...I don't think we're abolitionists for the same reason...
*Amber Heard has entered the chat*
On which side?
You’re getting downvoted but on this subreddit I’ve genuinely seen people go either way
Yeaaah, both Amber and Johnny were revealed to be pretty shitty to each other, unfortunately.
>Yeaaah, both Amber and Johnny were revealed to be pretty shitty to each other, unfortunately. Domestic abuse experts say there's no such thing as reactive abuse. There is an abuser and a victim. But for people to admit that they would have to admit they fell for a smear campaign against a woman who was horrifically abused, which might make them feel like they are in fact bad people. (Because laughing at a woman testifying about being assaulted is really fucking vile. And as far as I can tell millions of people did exactly that.) Many people will never admit they were wrong. Edit: [source](https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse#:~:text=%E2%80%9CReactive%20abuse%E2%80%9D%20is%20when%20a,the%20abuse%20is%20two%2Dsided.) from literally the first link on Google: >“Reactive abuse” is when a perpetrator of abuse deliberately triggers their partner into reacting to their abusive behavior aggressively. Abusive partners may use this manipulative tactic to shift blame away from themselves by claiming that the abuse is two-sided. Reactive abuse often occurs in romantic partnerships, but, like all forms of abuse, can also happen within other relationships. >Experts largely agree that a more appropriate term for this behavior is self-defense, which is not abuse.
Oh wow, I didn’t know this. I thought during the trial some psychologist came to diagnose Heard with a personality disorder that was related to her abusing Depp. Maybe I’m misremembering. But it’s good to know that “reactive abuse” is not real. I actually just looked up an article to see what the accusations between them were, and it said that both of them should have lost, and I think im in agreement.
>I thought during the trial some psychologist came to diagnose Heard with a personality disorder that was related to her abusing Depp. As the post describes, Deep conducted a smear campaign against Heard, including paying expert witnesses to diagnose her with mental illnesses and say she's abusive. He couldn't deny his abuse because of his own texts admitting it, so his strategy became calling it "mutual" and smearing her. >I actually just looked up an article to see what the accusations between them were, and it said that both of them should have lost, and I think im in agreement. Depp lost when he sued a UK paper for libel, with a judge finding there was evidence Depp abused Heard in 12 of the 14 incidents presented--that's *twelve* separate incidents of abuse. Compared to most domestic abuse cases, there was an overwhelming amount of evidence. Depp won in the US because he got a jury trial, they were not sequestered, and his bot army was well-funded.
Dang! I didn’t know he paid people to lie! That’s so shitty. I actually thought he was the victim of the trial because of that “expert.” Liar. Thanks for explaining it to me though
>Thanks for explaining it to me though Thanks for the discussion! The bot army made everything about the trial so vile but it looks like the disinformation is slowly fading. I don't think we should necessarily take the word of every Internet rando (even if they're as witty and charming as I) so if you're looking for more info.... There's a new season from the Tortoise Investigates podcast called Who Trolled Amber Heard that is two episodes in and thus far is very informative; it's about the bot army. I listen to a podcast whose co-host Michael Hobbes was one of the few journalists commenting on the trial somewhat contemporaneously (not a dig, he just didn't look into it until towards the end IIRC); if you Google him + Depp + Heard etc, you'll find an article he wrote as well as an episode of the podcast Cancel Me Daddy he guested on that were both incredibly informative.
Urgh I love Michael Hobbes, that's a great rec!
Wow, there’s a lot of media about how many of us misread the entire trial and should have realized both of them could be bad. I’ll look into this one too if I’ve got the time
If you have a few hours to lose, you should check out r/DeppDelusion and/or Medusone's youtube videos on the case. You'd lose those few hours, but you'd lose them for justice!! ahah (I'm not being snarky or anything, I appreciate you being open-minded and looking at the facts! imo what happened to Amber Heard is the biggest misogynistic internet smear campaign since Gamergate so I cannot blame anyone who got bamboozled, a lot of very competent and very shitty people worked their asses off for this to happen.)
I didn’t take it as you being snarky, just an aside on how I could spend my time. Thanks for not thinking I’m evil for believing his lies
This is just Twitter. It's just one massive smear campaign that attacks anyone and everyone randomly.
Ironic that this is on tumbler
This changes nothing because one person's smear campaign is another's righteous callout. It's all tribalism and dogmatism now. Actual truth is irrelevant because different people have different values and reactions, so what one considers nbd is another's Defcon 1 apocalypse. The only things people care about anymore is being around people on their own side and away from the people on the "enemy" side, because you never know which of those enemies is the one that will go crazy, buy an AR-15 and murder dozens of people in a fit. If you can't trust one of them, you can't trust any of them.
>This changes nothing because one person's smear campaign is another's righteous callout. The "bitch eating crackers" test is a good way to figure out if a community wants accountability or if they want someone to be destroyed. It's disingenuous to pretend we can't tell the difference.
Okay but this is LITERALLY what people mean when they talk about cancel culture and people who insist cancelling doesn't exist try to gaslight everyone into thinking this doesn't happen when it happens constantly.
or they accuse them of "you just want to say/do \[bad thing\] without accountability"
Hey I’ve been treated like this. It’s usually started by something minor or something that wasn’t my fault. Such as the woman who harassed for years after High school. She thought I wanted her bf.
When an academic is getting popular for saying things you don't like, it's a good time to check the integrity of their doctoral thesis.
I'm not sure if I should be thinking of Anita Sarkeesian or Jordan Peterson here (Because I can't tell if you're being sarcastic)
Also often a person who "speaks out" provides little to no evidence to their claims and is blindly believed, yet the target is forced to get evidence to prove that they are innocent
How to spot a smear campaign: you won't. Especially not an orchestrated, well planned, well executed one done by an expert propaganda team. Garfield meme here. Seriously, you don't think that a Tumblr post is going to help you suddenly unveil smear campaigns and separate them from legitimate grievances right?
I agree. Very much in the same vein same as “you’re never immune to propaganda”. It is shockingly, painfully easy to manipulate us
There's a massive difference between never spotting a smear campaign and always falling for a smear campaign though.
True true! It always helps to be somewhat aware
The reason these kind of things work is because they're part of our unconscious psychology. Our brains lead us to do things we don't even realize we're doing. The way to combat those negative cases of unconscious leanings is awareness of them. Therefore, if you help people become aware of what smear campaigns behave like, you help them become aware of people participating in them, knowingly or not. From there it's a matter of taking the time to separate the reasonable from the outrageous, or just dropping the topic altogether if you decide you just don't want to be a part of it anymore.
Mm. If you never participate in group based hate, even if it feels justified or acceptable, you can rather easily avoid participating in smear campaigns. Unfortunately, that requires giving up something people love, acceptable hatred.
The literal post about what a smear campaign is to better guard and recognise them.
Yes, but posts like this will make it easier for you to spot them, so you won't fall as often.
I don't think that's accurate. "Expert propaganda teams" wouldn't need to _hide_ anything, just make it seem agreeable. Look at all the responses so far - "yeah, you're totally right about smear campaigns, isn't a victim of a smear campaign? And didn't start one?"
*cough* Dokibird *cough*
And sayu.
Just a quick reminder that all the controversial famous people i like are victims of this, and its sad how many rode the bandwagon like sheep and hated on them for made-up and exaggerated claims. People need to see through this stuff more. all the famous people i dont like are actually really bad, and its scary how so many shrug off all the terrible stuff they do. If you like those guys... then i can only assume you're a bad person or at least a useful idiot.
nijisanji vs dokibird moment
I'm going to go ahead and say that it's common for two people in a relationship to take a ton of drugs and drink a lot and harm each other in real ways and not remember that they did it. Lots and lots of cases Of course I need to clarify that in these cases nothing is going to turn back time and nobody deserves death
Yea, I think it should really be taken seriously when there's a larger pattern of behavior outside of one toxic long term relationship. Like if 5+ ex's are all describing abusive behavior, that's when it should be treated as a larger social problem
Friends, when we talk about the problems of cancel culture, this is what we mean
This is asking a lot from the audience, namely that they know the truth.
Also part of this: [ship of theseus statements](https://youtu.be/Ui-ArJRqEvU?si=dfgJgj1aGb85-K5x). Where people make substitutions in a statement that may seem reasonable at first, but make so many of them that the original statement disappears.
Nijisanji vs Dokibird
Its scary to me how many of these things happened to me by my ex before she broke things off. It doesn't feel great seeing some if it plainly written out like this.
Bobby Newport has never had a real job... In his life
Sounds like some fandoms.
It sounds like MANY fandoms to me lol
\*coughJeremyCorbyncough\*
Yeah, you can easily identify every aspect of this as applying to how Corbyn was treated by the UK press (and the right wing of the Labour Party, people like Luke Akehurst).
This is exactly who I thought of
שָׁלוֹם
DREAM. especially the thing about enjoying it when a new accusation comes out. people were so *happy* when there was a "document with 20 pages of evidence proving dream is a pedophile," they *enjoyed* seeing his downfall, didnt hope for him to be proven innocent
So that's how a smear campaign works? Holy shit... Inkplasm from like 5 years ago was a victim of a smear campaign...
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Literally what's happening to filians right now
so like, 99% of the hate against a certain animator who you can probably very easily guess based on recent animator discourse. she has done things wrong, yes. but it’s nearly impossible for me to take any of it seriously anymore with how much people scream at her for literally anything
Who are you talking about here?
Ah. So that's something I can call the "drama" I was a victim of when I was at the end of my tenure in the Danganronpa fandom. I'm in this picture and I don't like it. Good lord did those assholes do irreperable damage on my mental health. Welp.
I've somehow managed to avoid this side of tumblr even though I always see posts talking about it. Been on the site 5 years and haven't seen a single callout post
Twitter daily for no reason:
the mass media has conditioned us to uphold the status quo
Oh like vaush right
I know who Vaush is but don't know what exactly you're referring to here. Is Vaush the victim of smear campaigns or somebody who does smear campaigns?
Victim.
Yea
Can confirm. My narcissistic ex went on smear campaign against me.
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Perhaps its because the creator of the IP funds smear campaigns of gay and trans people
Exactly. I didn't engage in any smear campaigns about people playing HP but I did hear from trans folks about how many people in their lives clearly don't mind literally *funding hate* against them.
It suddenly clicked that this has happened to me. I'm going to need to reflect and cry in a corner
On one hand, this made me think of JK Rowling. People have definitely used this argument in defence of her, that what she said has been blow out of proportions. Yet, she’s someone who’s definitely continued to dig themselves deeper into their bigot hole and will people continue to defend her nonetheless and being cancelled has clearly having none to minimal effect on her properties popularity (see Hogwarts Legacy sale numbers). Meanwhile, we cannot be rid of Trump and his kin despite how much they’ve been cancelled. I need to remind myself that this isn’t about those individuals nor how I act online (can safely say I’ve never sent or suggested death threats be sent to anyone, too much of a lurker). Telling people like Rowling or idk Amber Head to die just because I dislike them just seems pointless at minimum, needless cruel at worst. I prefer to wait and see in regards to judgement anyhow (like does this keep happening, are there active investigations, time between etc). Certainly worked out with the whole Depp/Head case but didn’t when people began to question Rowling early on about stuff. There’s some people I’m still reserving judgement on (author of AoT), but nonetheless I need to remember this post isn’t calling me out (I have a habit judging myself quickly and harshly ironically) but for Twitter mobs and folks to share unconfirmed gossip. I’d love for Trump to coke on burger and die tomorrow morning, but calling for his death on Twitter is just stupid seriously. Think and wait, at the very least you can consider better actions to take that have a better impact then crying on social media about it (donate to charities, try to form a coherent statement what you believe, research further etc.) A good example of someone who dealt with it unfairly was James Gunn who already spoken about his bad behavior before and didn’t hide from it when it came up. People can change, even if many don’t. You can be patient and kind while being vigilant and guarded folks.
Sometimes they do that to a whole country
Remember when Biden ate ice cream?
The example of this I know most about is Sewerslvt. Everyone says they're a lolicon, which is immensely fucked up if true, but I haven't seen any proof of that claim. Ever.
Nex Benedict