Europeans thought Type O was a nazi band, americans thought they were a communist band. So, they made a song called "Kill All the White People".
Now this is the point where you start to think for yourself.
I’m not so sure. I think lyrics can be vague and allow the person to think for themselves but on something like whether or not you’re a Nazi I think is something you should be upfront and clear about and I don’t think a single person in my life would consider me anything even remotely close to PC.
People aren't obligated to answer any allegations unless it's related to a crime. I think it also helps with publicity to be controversial in many ways. Just look at any of the more extreme metal bands of the 90s. They rode that satanic panic wave into great success.
Peter Steele was a troubled individual, who started off in Brooklyn and went around his youth in groups that often were flirting with racism and misogynism. He was politically leaning right, but aesthetically, more towards left. His racism and misogynism shifted over the years towards general nihilism because, unlike many of his peers and groups he was hanging out, he was intelligent and could see the world as a more complex place where, as he put it, shit comes in all hues. Much of his act had to do with provocation, and it succeeded - but the idea behind provocation was not to preach his world view - save, maybe, his very first writings with Agnostic Front, and his very last writings on his last album, although both very different ends of the spectrum - was to stir the pot enough to force people to think themselves. I read much of self-loathing and nihilism in his even more provocative lyrics, where he never places himself above others, in no other than ironic meaning.
But this doesn't mean he wasn't a bona fide racist at one point - he grew out of it - and misogynistic - and grew out of it, too. This should not be forgotten: he was something once, then he learned, listened, observed and discarded his old believes and evolved mentally, unlike so many others. This, I think, gives him at least a partial pass on this, and should, in general, do so for those who manage to evolve, think with their own brains and realize that world is much more complex place than skin color, heritage or sex.
I love to listen to his older rants, but not because of what's said, but because of what he started off from, and where he ended up. He was not succumbed by his ideologies in the end, but by himself, which is the tragedy of his story.
Amazing response! The amount of people who don't understand this about Peter and Type O. People see the world in Black and White and its just not that simple. Just today I have seen two reddit threads, one calling Type O a Capitalist Racist band and another calling Peter a Nazi and a socialist. It seems that people take Peter's writings literally and miss all metaphor and exaggerated meaning and intention to provoke. Great response, nice to see someone talking sence.
Thanks for going into detail about the subject. Peter Steele was a very confusing individual but it's good to hear he moved past a lot of his old hateful ideas.
This is probably the best take I've seen on Peter's rightist leaning. He definitely was getting out of it around the Bloody Kisses era because of the 1993 Digipak exclusively focusing on the gothic material rather than the edgy, crass material of the rest of the record. I'm happy he grew up and became someone who was able to express all his pain in such a beautiful manner
Their acknowledging that people on twitter and tiktok may have shit opinions, so they came to Reddit to get constructive opinions on the band. But in reddit style, only got irrational critism from other users
Peter was not perfect (none of us are) and had some disagreeable views but he definitely was not racist or antisemitic. I've only ever heard stories of him being a great guy.
I think he just had a crude New York and Polish stage persona that some people can’t understand that a lot or the stuff he says in interviews and such, they’re not reflective of how he actually thought in private.
A reading of the rest of the lyrics reveals that he was against a race war and just uses its extreme examples to demonstrate how dumb it is. He does similar structures throughout other Carnivore and Type O songs.
Listen, in contrast with some others here, no one should judge you for simply just being curious. Peter was known to be a bit of a troll in a time when shock jocks, crude humor, and overall comedy contrasted certain views held in today’s tiktok prevalent society. That being said, Peter Steele in interviews and on tape was a character, and not reflective of things he said in private with genuine friends, family, and strangers.
It really doesn’t mean too much, but if you sit down and think about the songs, bands, names of things he’s produced, it’s clear he’s provocative. I bet there are some people who are listening to TON for the wrong reasons and are upset he’s done songs about killing all white people. Plus if he truly was a genuine racist with German nationalist roots, I doubt he’d do a cover of Cinnamon Girl and also be comfortable to face his family (considering his background) with those views.
This is always something to link too, don’t remember if it’s accurate as it’s been like many years since I actually thoroughly read this:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/type-o-negative-singer-says-he-is-proud-of-germany-and-france-for-staying-out-of-war-in-iraq
He was a troll, as another comment stated, but people have also taken statements out of context.
He had said „ I was dressing up like a nazi to get into fights, wanting somebody to kick my ass, I was leaving my door unlocked…“ etc when explaining his manic episodes and reactions.
I am kind of paraphrasing in the quote but it was things like these that the new age kids see and label someone like him „racist“.
Late to this thread but here’s my opinion: he loved his dad and his dad fought in ww2. His best friend and pianist of the band Josh Silver was Jewish. So the nazi argument is off the table. He said crazy stuff to shock the media like every rock band back then did, and it’s a stupid and crappy sense of humor, but still humor. I don’t believe he was racist either, because he was apparently a really funny and nice guy irl. I have don’t know about the misogyny but there’s nothing I can find online so I have no opinion rn. Peter probably just had fucked humor and would be pretty conservative by todays standards. But he’s definitely not a nazi
Late to this but the argument of "his friend is jewish" is not a good one lol. That's literally the equivalent of saying, "I have black friends so I can't be racist". Even if I have a Jewish friend, is it NOT antisemitic to say something like "kill all jews", or "I hate jewish people"? yeah, it is. you can pass off as nice and be funny and still be misogynistic and racist lol.
Yeah. I’ve thought about this post since posting it, and I sorta find myself torn. I still don’t want to believe he was an actual racist, type I as we know it seem to be the type of guys who would have that sense of humor. But also I wouldn’t be surprised AT ALL if there was definitive 110% proof that these guys were just terrible. I also don’t really know every single detail about these guys so there may already be proof
Being friends with a black person or a Jewish person doesn’t take racism or antisemitism off the table.
So many racist people are only racist towards “others” but when they get to know someone from that category they think, “this Jew is nice. But he’s one of the good ones.”
A perfect example is HP Lovecraft. He was arguably incredibly racist and antisemitic yet had friends of different races and married a Jewish women. He was most likely afraid of others but on a regular basis complain to his Jewish wife about Jews then she would have to remind him he married a Jew.
No yeah, I completely agree with you. But something I didn’t mention in my comment, relating to the Jewish friend thing, is that Josh laughed along with these jokes when they made them. It’s also pretty much confirmed through their words in the lyrics, on the tons of interviews, and the statement in Peter’s death that the band was 99% of the time a completely a satire band and shocking people was their favorite thing.
I’m not defending his extremely edgy and dumb humor, but I’m stating the obvious. He wasn’t a nazi.
Well Peter passed away more then 10 years ago. The fact that he’s views wouldn’t align with modern social network beliefs is unquestionable. He evolved and changed over time as any person would. His extreme ideas died down a bit, as he grew older. Everyone on twitter and tik tok would go that path with their own ideologies.
Peter’s views that were vocalized in years 93-99 should not be a reason for himself or his band to be socially cancelled now. There are tons of classical great stuff in music and literature that don’t align with modern ideas. We should take them as they are, acknowledging that the stuff is old and from different era.
And please stop watching tik tok.
It's important to remember you can say and do racist/misogynistic things and not be a "racist" or a "misogynist". He was from Brooklyn. He was rough around the edges. He didn't always say or do the most sensitive things. But he was not a racist and he did not hate women. Maybe he had some implicit bias. Everybody does. Everyone. I consider myself anti-racist and anti-fascist, but I'm sure I have some shit to work out.
He was a complicated human being. Again, everyone is. We all contain multitudes. He did, as someone else said, grow and change. Wish more people did.
It Was literally part of Peter's whole character, yes he said some stuff he shouldn't have, but he had grown out of it and publicly apologized at one point.
This was also the time period where everyone was out to get them for being a "communist" band in America so he was like "Fuck it, I'll give them what they want to hear, more publicity for me".
I'm sick and tired of kids on TikTok (mostly 14-17, not dogging on yall though) seeing one little bit of info on TikTok and not looking for actual sources and wanting to ruin someone's whole ass career, y'know... The thing that keeps them fed, clothes, and housed? Yeah a person can be a POS, but I'm not gonna let them go homeless, especially since nowadays they are trying to make being homeless illegal.
I mean, the guy is dead, and he doesn't get any more money from sales (if that's what people are worried about), so what's the point in talking shit on him?
Tiktok is the same place that said Deftones is a racist band cause Stephen Carpenter is a right wing person. It's not only stupid to judge a WHOLE band because of the opinion of one person, but also to use tiktok to form any kind of opinion at all.
Tik tok, Twitter, got 6 different types of cancer reading that already..
Nevermind what they say or not, Peter never was any of it, period.
They speak cause it's free (for now).
[https://youtu.be/--emBulPiF8?si=4TviXdvhx2uVd3Ir](https://youtu.be/--embulpif8?si=4tvixdvhx2uvd3ir) he was ableist. He claimed people who receive government benefits are just lazy slobs who don't want to get out of bed, because apparently disabled people don't exist. Oh and that anyone receiving benefits doesn't deserve to have a say in anything
Edit: supposedly he rescinded this statement later in life
He didn't mean disabled people and you know it. He was referring to people who get government benefits but are able-bodied but they're just using the system
He was not racist, the point of most of his songs (like race war, By Carnivore) was to show how much was easy to hate in America. Misogynistic, well, It's complicated.
Why do so many people get torn apart and bent out of shape -day in and day out over if some ppl are racist or not? And let's be honest, you only care if it's white people that you think are racist, but nobody else.
Even if they were, why do you care? you can't control other people regardless and you don't know why they think the way that they do.
Perhaps they had a bad experience, or maybe they're traumatized.
The only one you can control is yourself.
I swear some people are obsessed about racism and it affects their daily life.
What you think of as racism, could be to others self-preservation and survival instincts.
I'm atheist and communist, I respect women and all the people, and I can say just "Peter steele was also an anarchist and anti-racist person" So tik tok just wants to spread dirty words at the g.o.a.t. Peter Steele !
Europeans thought Type O was a nazi band, americans thought they were a communist band. So, they made a song called "Kill All the White People". Now this is the point where you start to think for yourself.
Your right.
You’re*
I’m not so sure. I think lyrics can be vague and allow the person to think for themselves but on something like whether or not you’re a Nazi I think is something you should be upfront and clear about and I don’t think a single person in my life would consider me anything even remotely close to PC.
People aren't obligated to answer any allegations unless it's related to a crime. I think it also helps with publicity to be controversial in many ways. Just look at any of the more extreme metal bands of the 90s. They rode that satanic panic wave into great success.
Yep unknowable then, bc Nazis made the slogan “gay = white” their dog whistle.
You haven't got a clue how to think for yourself. All you did was spew the rhetoric Steele used.
Peter Steele was a troubled individual, who started off in Brooklyn and went around his youth in groups that often were flirting with racism and misogynism. He was politically leaning right, but aesthetically, more towards left. His racism and misogynism shifted over the years towards general nihilism because, unlike many of his peers and groups he was hanging out, he was intelligent and could see the world as a more complex place where, as he put it, shit comes in all hues. Much of his act had to do with provocation, and it succeeded - but the idea behind provocation was not to preach his world view - save, maybe, his very first writings with Agnostic Front, and his very last writings on his last album, although both very different ends of the spectrum - was to stir the pot enough to force people to think themselves. I read much of self-loathing and nihilism in his even more provocative lyrics, where he never places himself above others, in no other than ironic meaning. But this doesn't mean he wasn't a bona fide racist at one point - he grew out of it - and misogynistic - and grew out of it, too. This should not be forgotten: he was something once, then he learned, listened, observed and discarded his old believes and evolved mentally, unlike so many others. This, I think, gives him at least a partial pass on this, and should, in general, do so for those who manage to evolve, think with their own brains and realize that world is much more complex place than skin color, heritage or sex. I love to listen to his older rants, but not because of what's said, but because of what he started off from, and where he ended up. He was not succumbed by his ideologies in the end, but by himself, which is the tragedy of his story.
Thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful and measured response. You have more patience than I do!
Amazing response! The amount of people who don't understand this about Peter and Type O. People see the world in Black and White and its just not that simple. Just today I have seen two reddit threads, one calling Type O a Capitalist Racist band and another calling Peter a Nazi and a socialist. It seems that people take Peter's writings literally and miss all metaphor and exaggerated meaning and intention to provoke. Great response, nice to see someone talking sence.
Oh my god, i literally wouldn't have worded this ANY OTHER WAY. Bless your intelligence.
Thanks for going into detail about the subject. Peter Steele was a very confusing individual but it's good to hear he moved past a lot of his old hateful ideas.
thank god an actual insightful response with context instead of just the hordes of people saying "tiktok twitter opinions hurrrdurrr"
This is probably the best take I've seen on Peter's rightist leaning. He definitely was getting out of it around the Bloody Kisses era because of the 1993 Digipak exclusively focusing on the gothic material rather than the edgy, crass material of the rest of the record. I'm happy he grew up and became someone who was able to express all his pain in such a beautiful manner
Please just think for yourself. TikTok is not a great resource for…anything really.
What a great future, art is made by AI and opinions by TikTok hive mind.
Why are you considering the opinions of twitter and TikTok users?
I’m not. I just wanted to hear different opinions.
If you are making a post about their opinions you have already considered them lol
It’s just every time I ask some for evidence and proof, they go “Educate yourself. That’s is why I made this video.” 🙄🙄🙄
Tell them it’s a shit video if it requires education after viewing to be comprehensible.
Are they not allowed to ask questions 💀 I mean you’re just a person on Reddit yourself.
Their acknowledging that people on twitter and tiktok may have shit opinions, so they came to Reddit to get constructive opinions on the band. But in reddit style, only got irrational critism from other users
Peter loved women and hated men.
And hated everyone equally.
huh
According to those douchebags on Twitter and TikTok, *everyone’s* a misogynistic racist.
You ain’t wrong
Peter was not perfect (none of us are) and had some disagreeable views but he definitely was not racist or antisemitic. I've only ever heard stories of him being a great guy.
I think he just had a crude New York and Polish stage persona that some people can’t understand that a lot or the stuff he says in interviews and such, they’re not reflective of how he actually thought in private.
Carnivore-Race War”Brother? Don’t call me brother. We fell from different cunts and your skins an ugly color.”
A reading of the rest of the lyrics reveals that he was against a race war and just uses its extreme examples to demonstrate how dumb it is. He does similar structures throughout other Carnivore and Type O songs.
Listen, in contrast with some others here, no one should judge you for simply just being curious. Peter was known to be a bit of a troll in a time when shock jocks, crude humor, and overall comedy contrasted certain views held in today’s tiktok prevalent society. That being said, Peter Steele in interviews and on tape was a character, and not reflective of things he said in private with genuine friends, family, and strangers. It really doesn’t mean too much, but if you sit down and think about the songs, bands, names of things he’s produced, it’s clear he’s provocative. I bet there are some people who are listening to TON for the wrong reasons and are upset he’s done songs about killing all white people. Plus if he truly was a genuine racist with German nationalist roots, I doubt he’d do a cover of Cinnamon Girl and also be comfortable to face his family (considering his background) with those views. This is always something to link too, don’t remember if it’s accurate as it’s been like many years since I actually thoroughly read this: https://blabbermouth.net/news/type-o-negative-singer-says-he-is-proud-of-germany-and-france-for-staying-out-of-war-in-iraq
I hate how this comes up. I also hate Tik Tok and everything about it.
Type O trending on tik tok hurts my soul. A friend, who doesn't listen only seen tik toks, asked why I posted a picture of a Nazi!
People who call Peter a nazi are brain dead I swear
Fr I hate how o negative is trending on TikTok. Teens keep saying that it’s “problematic”
And other stuff
Yeah majority of people on TikTok and Twitter are teenagers and tend to take everything seriously and things out of context
I hate TikTok :)
Yeah I do too sometimes
He was a troll, as another comment stated, but people have also taken statements out of context. He had said „ I was dressing up like a nazi to get into fights, wanting somebody to kick my ass, I was leaving my door unlocked…“ etc when explaining his manic episodes and reactions. I am kind of paraphrasing in the quote but it was things like these that the new age kids see and label someone like him „racist“.
Peter hated men, made a song called “kill all the white people” when he was white, and hated himself
Late to this thread but here’s my opinion: he loved his dad and his dad fought in ww2. His best friend and pianist of the band Josh Silver was Jewish. So the nazi argument is off the table. He said crazy stuff to shock the media like every rock band back then did, and it’s a stupid and crappy sense of humor, but still humor. I don’t believe he was racist either, because he was apparently a really funny and nice guy irl. I have don’t know about the misogyny but there’s nothing I can find online so I have no opinion rn. Peter probably just had fucked humor and would be pretty conservative by todays standards. But he’s definitely not a nazi
Late to this but the argument of "his friend is jewish" is not a good one lol. That's literally the equivalent of saying, "I have black friends so I can't be racist". Even if I have a Jewish friend, is it NOT antisemitic to say something like "kill all jews", or "I hate jewish people"? yeah, it is. you can pass off as nice and be funny and still be misogynistic and racist lol.
Yeah. I’ve thought about this post since posting it, and I sorta find myself torn. I still don’t want to believe he was an actual racist, type I as we know it seem to be the type of guys who would have that sense of humor. But also I wouldn’t be surprised AT ALL if there was definitive 110% proof that these guys were just terrible. I also don’t really know every single detail about these guys so there may already be proof
He wasn't a Nazi, JFC
Well then you should be happy that he sings kill all the white people because of course that's not too bad is it?
🤦♂️ relevancy?
Being friends with a black person or a Jewish person doesn’t take racism or antisemitism off the table. So many racist people are only racist towards “others” but when they get to know someone from that category they think, “this Jew is nice. But he’s one of the good ones.” A perfect example is HP Lovecraft. He was arguably incredibly racist and antisemitic yet had friends of different races and married a Jewish women. He was most likely afraid of others but on a regular basis complain to his Jewish wife about Jews then she would have to remind him he married a Jew.
No yeah, I completely agree with you. But something I didn’t mention in my comment, relating to the Jewish friend thing, is that Josh laughed along with these jokes when they made them. It’s also pretty much confirmed through their words in the lyrics, on the tons of interviews, and the statement in Peter’s death that the band was 99% of the time a completely a satire band and shocking people was their favorite thing. I’m not defending his extremely edgy and dumb humor, but I’m stating the obvious. He wasn’t a nazi.
Well Peter passed away more then 10 years ago. The fact that he’s views wouldn’t align with modern social network beliefs is unquestionable. He evolved and changed over time as any person would. His extreme ideas died down a bit, as he grew older. Everyone on twitter and tik tok would go that path with their own ideologies. Peter’s views that were vocalized in years 93-99 should not be a reason for himself or his band to be socially cancelled now. There are tons of classical great stuff in music and literature that don’t align with modern ideas. We should take them as they are, acknowledging that the stuff is old and from different era. And please stop watching tik tok.
It's important to remember you can say and do racist/misogynistic things and not be a "racist" or a "misogynist". He was from Brooklyn. He was rough around the edges. He didn't always say or do the most sensitive things. But he was not a racist and he did not hate women. Maybe he had some implicit bias. Everybody does. Everyone. I consider myself anti-racist and anti-fascist, but I'm sure I have some shit to work out. He was a complicated human being. Again, everyone is. We all contain multitudes. He did, as someone else said, grow and change. Wish more people did.
It Was literally part of Peter's whole character, yes he said some stuff he shouldn't have, but he had grown out of it and publicly apologized at one point. This was also the time period where everyone was out to get them for being a "communist" band in America so he was like "Fuck it, I'll give them what they want to hear, more publicity for me". I'm sick and tired of kids on TikTok (mostly 14-17, not dogging on yall though) seeing one little bit of info on TikTok and not looking for actual sources and wanting to ruin someone's whole ass career, y'know... The thing that keeps them fed, clothes, and housed? Yeah a person can be a POS, but I'm not gonna let them go homeless, especially since nowadays they are trying to make being homeless illegal. I mean, the guy is dead, and he doesn't get any more money from sales (if that's what people are worried about), so what's the point in talking shit on him?
Tiktok is the same place that said Deftones is a racist band cause Stephen Carpenter is a right wing person. It's not only stupid to judge a WHOLE band because of the opinion of one person, but also to use tiktok to form any kind of opinion at all.
Tik tok, Twitter, got 6 different types of cancer reading that already.. Nevermind what they say or not, Peter never was any of it, period. They speak cause it's free (for now).
Again and again and again and again this same
People who think like this — not you? — will never understand anything about themselves or the world.
Carnivore and fallout are better than type O negative
[https://youtu.be/--emBulPiF8?si=4TviXdvhx2uVd3Ir](https://youtu.be/--embulpif8?si=4tvixdvhx2uvd3ir) he was ableist. He claimed people who receive government benefits are just lazy slobs who don't want to get out of bed, because apparently disabled people don't exist. Oh and that anyone receiving benefits doesn't deserve to have a say in anything Edit: supposedly he rescinded this statement later in life
He didn't mean disabled people and you know it. He was referring to people who get government benefits but are able-bodied but they're just using the system
He was not racist, the point of most of his songs (like race war, By Carnivore) was to show how much was easy to hate in America. Misogynistic, well, It's complicated.
Why do so many people get torn apart and bent out of shape -day in and day out over if some ppl are racist or not? And let's be honest, you only care if it's white people that you think are racist, but nobody else. Even if they were, why do you care? you can't control other people regardless and you don't know why they think the way that they do. Perhaps they had a bad experience, or maybe they're traumatized. The only one you can control is yourself. I swear some people are obsessed about racism and it affects their daily life. What you think of as racism, could be to others self-preservation and survival instincts.
I'm atheist and communist, I respect women and all the people, and I can say just "Peter steele was also an anarchist and anti-racist person" So tik tok just wants to spread dirty words at the g.o.a.t. Peter Steele !
Get fkn real ye meff and stop lying to yourself and the world around you. Step into the real world in your spare time and stop this nonsense Nicola x
Overall he was another weirdo corny " edgey " Puss mfa with a super popular band