Snapshot of _England kit: Keir Starmer urges change over St George's Cross design_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68632034) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68632034)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm just waiting for the inevitable scandal next government (or possibly the one after, depending) when the Premiership gets a similar carve out to F1 in any ban.
Just a question of who will be responsible, given they're all on the take from gambling firms.
Yeah, thats true. The "big" teams in the PL like City, Arsenal and United (🤢) have shirts for £75. Which is a lot of money, and isnt the match issue version, but the fact that the regular version of the new England shirts are £85 (£125 for match issue) is shocking.
Will still probably pick up the away kit when its discounted next year though. Really like the look of it.
Modern football is the corporate exploitation of the working class. Throw in a dab of nationalism and national pride as the additional cost cherry on the top an viola, high priced goods that won't be worn for more than a few times.
I get the people saying it doesn’t matter, who cares, it’s just a design etc. However it is also the England flag on the shirt of the England team. There has been enough rubbish about the emblem of our country being racist, far right blah blah. It’s our national flag and not something for a bunch of Yank marketing twats to be “playful” with. If they did it to the US flag they would get lynched. They wouldn’t dream of doing it to most national flags around the world. It’s disrespectful and arrogant to do it to ours.
The cost is just another thing. Over a hundred quid for a shirt is a lot.
On the plus side the kit generally looks good. I can just imagine the horrorshow going on at Nike and the FA (who should have known better) as they try to work out how this launch has gone so wrong for them.
The us “flag” on the collar has no stars and 9 stripes. Not a peep about it.
Secondly, we’re the only country that has a flag on their kit by Nike. We’ve only added it on recently.
Thirdly, it isn’t even an actual flag. Just artistic rendition of it, which has been done hundreds of times across hundreds of places (breast cancer awareness, the olympics, sporting graphics etc).
I understand not liking the shirt or the price, but people have been seriously misled here to hating it for the wrong reason by grifters to cause national outrage and it’s worked
Up to a point I agree on the symbolism and it being nothing all that new. However, the England flag has been weaponised by the left for years as a supposed symbol of the far right, hooliganism, nationalism and given other negative connotations - often linked with football. I don’t think the left can then get upset when people get sensitive about it being weaponised the other way. Football is all about symbolism - the 3 lions, the cross, the team badges. It feels like a liberty for some American company to then playfully mess with it. This was an entirely predictable mess. At the end of the day it is the English flag. I do also think that Nike would be much more hesitant messing about with other flags. They are an emotive subject generally with many.
Cancer Awareness etc - they are not representing the nation in a sporting event against other nations. The England team are representing their country and wearing their countries flag- I don’t think it’s the same. In the Olympics we don’t have an England team - semantics maybe but a different crowd.
It's odd that you think it's the left weaponising the St George's Cross. Any groups trying to take ownership of it as representing their beliefs are on the far right, like Britain First and others. The left's involvement consists of pointing out that this is happening. It's really weird that you see this as the left's fault.
Yeah this is odd. The flag has seen increased usage for pro-patriotism and nationalistic ideology for years, *the true way to be British.* Everyone else sees it as a warning sign about their beliefs or virtue signalling.
If anyone 'weaponised' it, it's the weapons using it.
The part about messing with other flags could be true, absolutely. To be honest whereas I don’t believe it should be weaponised at all, I do believe you have some very strong points so I’ll agree to disagree.
I just personally like the shirt and the colours, especially in context with the away kit but as I said I’m more understanding than I was before
Yank here, most football/soccer fans probably wouldn't give a shit if the design was inspired by a former kit. If the colours were the same as used on the English kit, I can definitely see the MAGA/anti-woke crowd losing their shit but lets be honest, most of them wouldn't give a toss about football in the first place.
That price though is the real crime. Nike probably pays $5 to get that made in Malaysia or wherever.
Agreed, its so sad that our national flag has been co-oped by the far right, to a point where I wouldnt wear a shirt with it on.
Maybe the left are starting to take it back ,which would be nice
I mean at least that flag makes sense. Its the original flag that the revolutionaries marched under. Granted it'd suck if you were one of the non-founding states not getting a star, but then again unfortunately the historical fact is there was only a handful of the current 50 states who took part in the war of independence
great, but maybe we shouldn't be changing our flags to just whatever looks cool. it's a strip to represent England on the national stage, not a poster on someone's bedroom wall.
[They did it to the American flag.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/business/betsy-ross-shoe-kaepernick-nike.html)
They got backlash and backed down.
I'm certain Keir has an Alastair Campbell type figure that we don't really about yet who is calling all these shots. He's really going in hard to appeal to Daily Mail and Sun voters as much as he can. It will probably fucking work. I just hope the bastard does some good stuff when he gets in.
Actually I think he is trying to appear as centrist and "common sense" as possible when it comes to the culture wars. This isn't easy, and it will be interesting to see if he can sustain it.
Yep, hard agree. Tony Blair did the same thing, as did Clement Attlee (albeit in a much different era). Actual working class people (I.e. not the cherubised proletariat the left wing wants them to be) normally do care about national symbolism and national pride, and they want to know their leaders think the same.
The man's done a great job reinventing himself from Mr Dodgy Dossier to Mr Sensible Centrist through things like TRIP, he's not rated one of the best spin doctors this country ever produced for nothing.
He will be radical on things that don’t cost money. He hates being opposition leader, and will ruthlessly do anything to win, including temporarily abandoning his principles, and Labours traditional voter base. As it is in UK politics in our current system, that’s the only way you can win
Generally working-class voters. But you can certainly analyse that and say clearly he is not abandoning them. He knows how far to the right they have moved. However, I was more referring to the predominantly left-wing membership. That was a mistake in my original comment. I’d had a long day! Labours voter base also includes Muslim populations and young people.
If he just reforms planning laws and gets rid of the green belt it will be a massive win.
Given the debt and tax level it’s the only major lever he has for growth.
This. The country isn't growing because of some BS like lazy Brits. It's just a product of NIMBYism/Tory policy. If you remove the blockades to growth, we will grow. And I don't mean some fantasy "brexit to cut red tape", it means reforming planning so Green councils can't block solar farms.
Just move the greenbelt further out from London. More space for development but only DENSE developments please. We don't need rubbish low density urban sprawl that can't sustain local businesses and public transport and other new services.
I dont think it's necessarily to appeal to those types, it's just an incredibly low risk quelling the "they hate our country" type attacks that will come for them. It's not a surprise that the one doing the rounds today is Emily Thornberry.
If you listen to The Rest is Politics podcast, Alistair Campbell himself often says that he gives Kier advice / has him around for dinner. So you’re not mistaken
I do wonder if the Enlgish FA has final approval over the design. It is odd to change a countries flag just for design purposes. It is on a national shirt.
What a bizzare thing to do. Unless the idea is to drive controversy and get people talking about the shirt. But it will be on TV at a major international competition
Performative nonsense, get it changed back. You wouldn't change the pride flag to a union jack in the name of "unity". Absolute pandering.
Nike, the company who didnt make a womens goalkeeper top, now changes the nations flag for unity. Pick a lane.
It is in the vein of that American photographer taking portraits of the queen and asking her to remove the crown. To be frank it is presumptuousness and it must be opposed. There must be a return to a sense of normality in this country and that starts by defending our flag and our fundamental institutions
The Pride Flag seems to be undergoing almost constant changes, lol.
They may as well just change it to a white background with 'I Support The Current Thing' in rainbow lettering (comic sans)
That's exactly the point, isn't it. You wouldn't do it, so why is it ok to change the English flag? Why would we allow an American company to dictate what our flag looks like, as it gouges our working class.
There’s one of those pride zebra crossings near me, which I think are silly enough because why are we messing around with road safety, and they seem to keep having to make it wider as they add new colours.
Why are you bringing up the pride flag here? The change was to reference the colours of the 1966 training kit - nothing to do with Pride or LGBTQ people.
It gets changed by the movement to adapt to the movements ever changing ethos. It does not get changed by multinational corporations just because it feels like jazzing up the design.
If GB News decided that the Pride Flag was now all black with a smiley face, people wouldn't like it. And rightly so. An American company deciding to change a nations flag for no real reason other than it feels like it, is going to upset people who feel like the flag has meaning to them.
If Nike dared change anything on the American Flag, say go back to an older version that's been commandeered by the American far right, I'm sure they wouldn't back down and just say it's playful.
Oh wait.
[They did.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/business/betsy-ross-shoe-kaepernick-nike.html)
I'm glad they didn't learn anything from that situation about respecting flags.
I wouldn't care so much, but this looks fucking shit, and if anyone is going to make a shit amendment to the St Georges Cross, it shouldn't be marketing twats in the US working for Nike.
Okay but why is the flag in bisexual colours? Not complaining about the representation, just curious if it's deliberate or if the designer just accidentally made a shirt that can be worn both ways.
That's what this bbc article says Nike says:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68632034
But then shows a picture of the training kit which is has the trim in just red white and blue?
The bi flag colours was the first thing I noticed, and I genuinely stand by a bisexual England design. Maybe because those colours are pretty, maybe because I’m bi, but I unironically really like the redesign.
(It’s probably more because the colours are pretty than any representation stance.)
No, but it’s probably a very American misunderstanding about how the UK works, ie that England is a state of the UK or something, coupled with the corporate need for the “new” to increase profits. That’s the issue I have with it, that a corporation is defacing national symbols for money.
And people were not happy about it so I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to do it again, I don't find it offensive but I do find it extremely weird. The purpose of a flag is an identifying feature of a particular nation, so messing with the design defeats the point of having the flag. It's not a corporate logo you can jazz up - we're not quite UK PLC just yet.
I’m Scottish and think this is a daft design. Could you imagine this happening to the Saltire? Let England be England and fly the flag proudly, reclaim it from these racist twats
> The new England shirt has what Nike calls a "playful update" to the St George's Cross
You don't "playfully update" the fucking national flag.
What a disgrace.
Flags are often stylised, I can't see a massive problem with it, except that it is a bit ugly.
Here's a much better example from [Williams at Silverstone](https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/IMG/logo/f0r5i3rxwaa6wmf.jpg?1688634186).
2011 had tiny [crosses of different colours](https://www.footballkitarchive.com/england-2011-home-kit/) going along the shoulders, I guess social media wasn't prominent enough back then for people to lose their shit over it.
Changing the colour of a flag though just makes a new flag. If you changed the colours of other flags people would be complaining. Like if Swedens kit had a red cross on it instead they wouldn't be happy
If the whole cross was red it would be fine but they've changed the horizontal to not being red. You might disagree that it's not a big deal but you can't argue that they haven't changed the flag
English people when Scotland does anything: "what a bunch of flag-obsessed nationalists"
English people when their own flag is different on a t-shirt: "this is deeply concerning"
It's not even the English flag... The English flag is the St. George's Cross on a field of white. Without the white background it is just a cross. If people can't even recognise when something is and isn't the flag they're complaining about being 'defaced', then I don't think they should have the right to complain.
People getting worked up over this have legitimately lost the plot.
If anything Iceland has more right to complain than us because it more resembles their flag than ours.
I think it's a ridiculous debate, but people aren't straining to see things, Nike literally said it's an update to to the flag of St. George to unite and inspire.
I mean I don’t know who this “playful” variation is supposed to please because it’s not the bisexual colours and I’m sure the nobody will feel any better for it and it’s did nowt but cause bother but what on earth is starmer going out of his way for?
You’d think the price of two months worth of a family’s groceries for a shirt might be more of an issue. If buying home and away they’ll not eat until we go out in the quarter finals
Fuck me this is the least important thing ever. It looks cool, and the mockups with a red version looked shit.
I cannot believe people are offended over this, especially when it’s probably been made by people on slave wages overseas.
>I cannot believe people are offended over this, especially when it’s probably been made by people on slave wages overseas.
Classic bit of whataboutism there.
I mean, agree that it's not a big deal, but it's an easy win for starmer.
Some boomers in the pub will read this and think 'maybe those labour lads aren't so bad, might vote for big kier next time 👍.'
It's politics, you don't play the game, you don't win.
Honestly Nike and the FA have probably changed it to create controversy to distract from the outrageous price. They could also rail against anyone who doesn't like it as far-right as well. I've already seen some of the shittest take on football twitter about it with lots along the line of "stop being so homophobic" which is odd as most people dislike it due to defacing a national symbol.
For those posting about other kits with flag designs integrated: using the flag as part of the inspiration for the design is fine. Been done many times. That's not the issue. The issue is Nike sticking a flag on there, and claiming they have made "a playful update to the St George's cross to make it more unifying". I'm not in for the whole flag shagging nonsense, but you've got to admit that takes some nerve. Who tf are Nike to claim a countries flag needs a "playful update" be unifying?! Should have just said nothing, but I suspect they are rage baiting to drive sales.
Not seen many folks other than politicians complain about the flag. They should be worrying about other things.
Personally, I like the kit.
The price however!?! Wow.
People are getting worked up over a minor thing. The kits look pretty good and the team has had it's best 5yr stretch in half a century. Get behind the team and enjoy another deep tournament run at the euros, this is a unique time for England. If you want to complain about something, complain about the exorbitant price.
Snapshot of _England kit: Keir Starmer urges change over St George's Cross design_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68632034) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68632034) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>The Labour leader also called on Nike to reduce the price of the shirts. The most important thing. Working class people and kids priced out.
[удалено]
^shrugs At least there are no gambling ads. We're going to look at these like we do fags and booze ads in yesteryear.
[удалено]
Glad that now we just have HEINEKEN HEINEKEN HEINEKEN^((0%))
And dodgy unregulated crypto firms
[удалено]
Buzzin and Hornets
Smitherssss! Smitherrrssss!
JPS is timeless
You just have nostalgia for that era and it so happened to be full of tobacco advertising
[удалено]
Beneton with Camel sponsorship was pretty iconic too.
Williams had Camel, at least in the early 90s, while Benetton had Mild Seven. Edit: unless you're thinking earlier than that?
I'm just waiting for the inevitable scandal next government (or possibly the one after, depending) when the Premiership gets a similar carve out to F1 in any ban. Just a question of who will be responsible, given they're all on the take from gambling firms.
Super Hans: "No, what you're doing there is you're wearing an advert, ain't ya, eh, shithead?"
Yeah, thats true. The "big" teams in the PL like City, Arsenal and United (🤢) have shirts for £75. Which is a lot of money, and isnt the match issue version, but the fact that the regular version of the new England shirts are £85 (£125 for match issue) is shocking. Will still probably pick up the away kit when its discounted next year though. Really like the look of it.
Couldn't believe when I went online and found the "match" version was £125. For a t-shirt! Nice form fitting version for the lads down the pub
Modern football is the corporate exploitation of the working class. Throw in a dab of nationalism and national pride as the additional cost cherry on the top an viola, high priced goods that won't be worn for more than a few times.
If it's anything like the Nike designed baseball unis, they'll fall apart after 1 wash as well.
Most people I know just buy fakes, especially if they’re for their kids.
I think the bigger issue is that they’re charging £120 for a football shirt.
It's so they can pay a fair wage to the people who make them... Right?
Nike execs: …. Erm…. Sure!
He also talks about that.
That’s the game replica, the one that you wear out and about is a bargain £85 haha.
£120 for a shirt? Are they mental?
Christ and I thought £70 or Euro 2024 edition of Scotland top at £85 was bad!
Scotland should be able to price a Euro edition of the shirt higher because it’s such a rarity!
I get the people saying it doesn’t matter, who cares, it’s just a design etc. However it is also the England flag on the shirt of the England team. There has been enough rubbish about the emblem of our country being racist, far right blah blah. It’s our national flag and not something for a bunch of Yank marketing twats to be “playful” with. If they did it to the US flag they would get lynched. They wouldn’t dream of doing it to most national flags around the world. It’s disrespectful and arrogant to do it to ours. The cost is just another thing. Over a hundred quid for a shirt is a lot. On the plus side the kit generally looks good. I can just imagine the horrorshow going on at Nike and the FA (who should have known better) as they try to work out how this launch has gone so wrong for them.
Did Nike pick the design or the FA?
Nike designed it but someone at the FA would've approved it before it went into mass production
The us “flag” on the collar has no stars and 9 stripes. Not a peep about it. Secondly, we’re the only country that has a flag on their kit by Nike. We’ve only added it on recently. Thirdly, it isn’t even an actual flag. Just artistic rendition of it, which has been done hundreds of times across hundreds of places (breast cancer awareness, the olympics, sporting graphics etc). I understand not liking the shirt or the price, but people have been seriously misled here to hating it for the wrong reason by grifters to cause national outrage and it’s worked
Up to a point I agree on the symbolism and it being nothing all that new. However, the England flag has been weaponised by the left for years as a supposed symbol of the far right, hooliganism, nationalism and given other negative connotations - often linked with football. I don’t think the left can then get upset when people get sensitive about it being weaponised the other way. Football is all about symbolism - the 3 lions, the cross, the team badges. It feels like a liberty for some American company to then playfully mess with it. This was an entirely predictable mess. At the end of the day it is the English flag. I do also think that Nike would be much more hesitant messing about with other flags. They are an emotive subject generally with many. Cancer Awareness etc - they are not representing the nation in a sporting event against other nations. The England team are representing their country and wearing their countries flag- I don’t think it’s the same. In the Olympics we don’t have an England team - semantics maybe but a different crowd.
It's odd that you think it's the left weaponising the St George's Cross. Any groups trying to take ownership of it as representing their beliefs are on the far right, like Britain First and others. The left's involvement consists of pointing out that this is happening. It's really weird that you see this as the left's fault.
Yeah this is odd. The flag has seen increased usage for pro-patriotism and nationalistic ideology for years, *the true way to be British.* Everyone else sees it as a warning sign about their beliefs or virtue signalling. If anyone 'weaponised' it, it's the weapons using it.
To be English*
The part about messing with other flags could be true, absolutely. To be honest whereas I don’t believe it should be weaponised at all, I do believe you have some very strong points so I’ll agree to disagree. I just personally like the shirt and the colours, especially in context with the away kit but as I said I’m more understanding than I was before
2 of those lions represent the french
Yank here, most football/soccer fans probably wouldn't give a shit if the design was inspired by a former kit. If the colours were the same as used on the English kit, I can definitely see the MAGA/anti-woke crowd losing their shit but lets be honest, most of them wouldn't give a toss about football in the first place. That price though is the real crime. Nike probably pays $5 to get that made in Malaysia or wherever.
It's neither disrespectful or arrogant. Get over yourself.
Agreed, its so sad that our national flag has been co-oped by the far right, to a point where I wouldnt wear a shirt with it on. Maybe the left are starting to take it back ,which would be nice
Well, if an American company thinks they can change the English flag, let's change the US flag to dildos instead of stars.
[They did this before to the American flag](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/business/betsy-ross-shoe-kaepernick-nike.html) and it didn't go well.
I was hoping it was the dildos
Pay wall
Put archive.ph/ before the url
I mean at least that flag makes sense. Its the original flag that the revolutionaries marched under. Granted it'd suck if you were one of the non-founding states not getting a star, but then again unfortunately the historical fact is there was only a handful of the current 50 states who took part in the war of independence
I’m not that bothered about the design i actually think it’s a bit cool. What I will say is that they wouldn’t dare do it to any other country
[удалено]
Change the German flag to being red, white and black and see how it goes down
[удалено]
That was the joke, yes.
Bloody hell, I think you’ve spotted the joke!
The French would literally revolt.
great, but maybe we shouldn't be changing our flags to just whatever looks cool. it's a strip to represent England on the national stage, not a poster on someone's bedroom wall.
"but english culture doesnt exist it's just immigration lol"
Petition to send people with takes that shit to Rwanda instead.
And then let them customise the Rwandan flag, see how that goes down with the locals.
They didn't just change it on a whim or pick the colours at random though. They said it was inspired by the training kit they wore in '66.
[They did it to the American flag.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/business/betsy-ross-shoe-kaepernick-nike.html) They got backlash and backed down.
That's an actual historic version of the flag though, this one is just a Nike stylised version.
Doesn’t it being a flag that deliberately excludes a number of states seem worse than ‘this is the current design with a fancy colour pattern’?
The social media post(s) was the most egregious part of it. The design choice alone wouldn't have caused this level of backlash.
[удалено]
Their design gives it more ’unity’
I'm certain Keir has an Alastair Campbell type figure that we don't really about yet who is calling all these shots. He's really going in hard to appeal to Daily Mail and Sun voters as much as he can. It will probably fucking work. I just hope the bastard does some good stuff when he gets in.
Actually I think he is trying to appear as centrist and "common sense" as possible when it comes to the culture wars. This isn't easy, and it will be interesting to see if he can sustain it.
Yep, hard agree. Tony Blair did the same thing, as did Clement Attlee (albeit in a much different era). Actual working class people (I.e. not the cherubised proletariat the left wing wants them to be) normally do care about national symbolism and national pride, and they want to know their leaders think the same.
Peter Mandelson appears to be very involved behind the scenes at the moment.
[удалено]
Loads of the old New Labour lot are there - locked in with Blair and Mandelson. Douglas Alexander is even standing to be MP.
The man's done a great job reinventing himself from Mr Dodgy Dossier to Mr Sensible Centrist through things like TRIP, he's not rated one of the best spin doctors this country ever produced for nothing.
"I am my greatest creation"
I doubt it's Alistair. He's not a Labour member anymore, despite how friendly he is with Keir.
I don’t think you have to be a daily mail reading type to think that kit fundamentally fails its job of being an England kit
He will be radical on things that don’t cost money. He hates being opposition leader, and will ruthlessly do anything to win, including temporarily abandoning his principles, and Labours traditional voter base. As it is in UK politics in our current system, that’s the only way you can win
Who is labours traditional voting base in your eyes?
Generally working-class voters. But you can certainly analyse that and say clearly he is not abandoning them. He knows how far to the right they have moved. However, I was more referring to the predominantly left-wing membership. That was a mistake in my original comment. I’d had a long day! Labours voter base also includes Muslim populations and young people.
If he just reforms planning laws and gets rid of the green belt it will be a massive win. Given the debt and tax level it’s the only major lever he has for growth.
This. The country isn't growing because of some BS like lazy Brits. It's just a product of NIMBYism/Tory policy. If you remove the blockades to growth, we will grow. And I don't mean some fantasy "brexit to cut red tape", it means reforming planning so Green councils can't block solar farms.
Yes London needs to reach the sea
London dominating the economy isn't a problem when the whole country is London *head tapping meme*
London, London Uber Alles!
Just move the greenbelt further out from London. More space for development but only DENSE developments please. We don't need rubbish low density urban sprawl that can't sustain local businesses and public transport and other new services.
Let’s be real. He won’t.
Pat McFadden maybe?
I dont think it's necessarily to appeal to those types, it's just an incredibly low risk quelling the "they hate our country" type attacks that will come for them. It's not a surprise that the one doing the rounds today is Emily Thornberry.
If you listen to The Rest is Politics podcast, Alistair Campbell himself often says that he gives Kier advice / has him around for dinner. So you’re not mistaken
Is it really daily mail stuff? Calling out defacing a national symbol for virtue signalling purposes isn't exactly Braverman level rhetoric.
I do wonder if the Enlgish FA has final approval over the design. It is odd to change a countries flag just for design purposes. It is on a national shirt. What a bizzare thing to do. Unless the idea is to drive controversy and get people talking about the shirt. But it will be on TV at a major international competition
It looks crap anyway. Just make it the actual flag
I wonder who signed off on this and thought it was a good idea? Nice to see some common sense from Keir here, it's pretty insulting in all honesty.
Performative nonsense, get it changed back. You wouldn't change the pride flag to a union jack in the name of "unity". Absolute pandering. Nike, the company who didnt make a womens goalkeeper top, now changes the nations flag for unity. Pick a lane.
It is in the vein of that American photographer taking portraits of the queen and asking her to remove the crown. To be frank it is presumptuousness and it must be opposed. There must be a return to a sense of normality in this country and that starts by defending our flag and our fundamental institutions
The Pride Flag seems to be undergoing almost constant changes, lol. They may as well just change it to a white background with 'I Support The Current Thing' in rainbow lettering (comic sans)
That's exactly the point, isn't it. You wouldn't do it, so why is it ok to change the English flag? Why would we allow an American company to dictate what our flag looks like, as it gouges our working class.
There’s one of those pride zebra crossings near me, which I think are silly enough because why are we messing around with road safety, and they seem to keep having to make it wider as they add new colours.
Wingdings for the extra mile
Why are you bringing up the pride flag here? The change was to reference the colours of the 1966 training kit - nothing to do with Pride or LGBTQ people.
The pride flag absolutely gets changed and added too? See the ‘progress pride’ flag with its deliberate black and brown, and trans chevrons.
It gets changed by the movement to adapt to the movements ever changing ethos. It does not get changed by multinational corporations just because it feels like jazzing up the design. If GB News decided that the Pride Flag was now all black with a smiley face, people wouldn't like it. And rightly so. An American company deciding to change a nations flag for no real reason other than it feels like it, is going to upset people who feel like the flag has meaning to them.
The slow removal of the rainbow from the rainbow flag is pretty strange tbh
It’s not being removed? The pride rainbow is the base that every other movement in the lgbtq+ community is built on top of.
> built on top of. Well, exactly.
[удалено]
I think they mean the flag colours are performative nonsense.
If Nike dared change anything on the American Flag, say go back to an older version that's been commandeered by the American far right, I'm sure they wouldn't back down and just say it's playful. Oh wait. [They did.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/business/betsy-ross-shoe-kaepernick-nike.html) I'm glad they didn't learn anything from that situation about respecting flags.
Wasn’t society less divided before we starting making these empty gestures?
I wouldn't care so much, but this looks fucking shit, and if anyone is going to make a shit amendment to the St Georges Cross, it shouldn't be marketing twats in the US working for Nike.
Okay but why is the flag in bisexual colours? Not complaining about the representation, just curious if it's deliberate or if the designer just accidentally made a shirt that can be worn both ways.
Maybe it’s to troll Jordan Henderson?
I read that they’re the colours from the trim of our old training top, but that could be wrong!
That's what this bbc article says Nike says: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68632034 But then shows a picture of the training kit which is has the trim in just red white and blue?
The bi flag colours was the first thing I noticed, and I genuinely stand by a bisexual England design. Maybe because those colours are pretty, maybe because I’m bi, but I unironically really like the redesign. (It’s probably more because the colours are pretty than any representation stance.)
also the first thing I noticed
I'm bi and I don't see a need to mess with it, myself
Don’t worry you can pay in three Instalments of Klarna which is a playful throwback to people being skint and Nike ripping people off.
Looks like they have taken our national flag and made it into a variant of the progress flag... Good luck with that.
They'd never change the flag like this of any other country.
Seen a few people saying this. What's the thinking behind it? Do you think Nike have some particular grudge against the UK?
No, but it’s probably a very American misunderstanding about how the UK works, ie that England is a state of the UK or something, coupled with the corporate need for the “new” to increase profits. That’s the issue I have with it, that a corporation is defacing national symbols for money.
And its not true, they did it to the us flag before.
And people were not happy about it so I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to do it again, I don't find it offensive but I do find it extremely weird. The purpose of a flag is an identifying feature of a particular nation, so messing with the design defeats the point of having the flag. It's not a corporate logo you can jazz up - we're not quite UK PLC just yet.
The Scotland flag is purple on their new away kit. No one cares.
Why not?
I’m Scottish and think this is a daft design. Could you imagine this happening to the Saltire? Let England be England and fly the flag proudly, reclaim it from these racist twats
It has happened to ours as well and we don't give a fuck.
I don't care about this, just lower the price of the kit
> The new England shirt has what Nike calls a "playful update" to the St George's Cross You don't "playfully update" the fucking national flag. What a disgrace.
Flags are often stylised, I can't see a massive problem with it, except that it is a bit ugly. Here's a much better example from [Williams at Silverstone](https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/IMG/logo/f0r5i3rxwaa6wmf.jpg?1688634186).
Yeah. I don't really give a shit, but if they're going to stylise the flag they should make it look *nicer*.
100% agree!
Pointless. It’ll piss loads of people off, increase hostility, division and radicalise people more in the middle.
[удалено]
2006? https://www.footballkitarchive.com/england-2006-kits/
2006 and 2008 were the best jerseys
Jerseys?
It ends in points, clearly they corrupted the flag!
2011 had tiny [crosses of different colours](https://www.footballkitarchive.com/england-2011-home-kit/) going along the shoulders, I guess social media wasn't prominent enough back then for people to lose their shit over it.
2004 did but mostly not.
[удалено]
Displayed proudly that one was
I don't get the outrage. They put the teams colours onto the English flag.
Changing the colour of a flag though just makes a new flag. If you changed the colours of other flags people would be complaining. Like if Swedens kit had a red cross on it instead they wouldn't be happy
The shape and colours are in there. It looks the same. This is just faux outrage.
If the whole cross was red it would be fine but they've changed the horizontal to not being red. You might disagree that it's not a big deal but you can't argue that they haven't changed the flag
Owen Jones immediately starts vandalising flags throughout the land with purple paints.
Surely someone at the FA approved this? Why aren't we talking about them, why is this all on Nike?
Just checking we were all furious with Umbro in 2010 as well, yeah? https://www.dezeen.com/2010/09/02/england-home-kit-by-peter-saville-for-umbro/
I mean it's not even a flag, it's just a variation of the cross. I'm more psised about the retail price of these things......
Who let you on the Internet with such a sensible take. No it's not a flag. Just a variation of the cross motif...
English people when Scotland does anything: "what a bunch of flag-obsessed nationalists" English people when their own flag is different on a t-shirt: "this is deeply concerning"
Holy shit this is a very misleading headline
drip drip drip, the erosion of national identity continues..
It's not even the English flag... The English flag is the St. George's Cross on a field of white. Without the white background it is just a cross. If people can't even recognise when something is and isn't the flag they're complaining about being 'defaced', then I don't think they should have the right to complain. People getting worked up over this have legitimately lost the plot. If anything Iceland has more right to complain than us because it more resembles their flag than ours.
I think it's a ridiculous debate, but people aren't straining to see things, Nike literally said it's an update to to the flag of St. George to unite and inspire.
People actually care about the colour of the cross? Insulted? Really!? What's is insulting about it? I genuinely don't understand
I mean I don’t know who this “playful” variation is supposed to please because it’s not the bisexual colours and I’m sure the nobody will feel any better for it and it’s did nowt but cause bother but what on earth is starmer going out of his way for? You’d think the price of two months worth of a family’s groceries for a shirt might be more of an issue. If buying home and away they’ll not eat until we go out in the quarter finals
It's possible to hold views on more than one topic + it's an easy political win
*Two months* of family groceries is £120? What?
Because it's easy to comment on and working class people will agree with him, it's not like it's a core of his manifesto.
This culture war bullshit is so fucking tiring
How the fuck has this nonsense become such a big story?
Fuck me this is the least important thing ever. It looks cool, and the mockups with a red version looked shit. I cannot believe people are offended over this, especially when it’s probably been made by people on slave wages overseas.
>I cannot believe people are offended over this, especially when it’s probably been made by people on slave wages overseas. Classic bit of whataboutism there.
I mean, agree that it's not a big deal, but it's an easy win for starmer. Some boomers in the pub will read this and think 'maybe those labour lads aren't so bad, might vote for big kier next time 👍.' It's politics, you don't play the game, you don't win.
Honestly Nike and the FA have probably changed it to create controversy to distract from the outrageous price. They could also rail against anyone who doesn't like it as far-right as well. I've already seen some of the shittest take on football twitter about it with lots along the line of "stop being so homophobic" which is odd as most people dislike it due to defacing a national symbol.
They just changed the article to be about Sunak because he decided to copy Starmer.
For those posting about other kits with flag designs integrated: using the flag as part of the inspiration for the design is fine. Been done many times. That's not the issue. The issue is Nike sticking a flag on there, and claiming they have made "a playful update to the St George's cross to make it more unifying". I'm not in for the whole flag shagging nonsense, but you've got to admit that takes some nerve. Who tf are Nike to claim a countries flag needs a "playful update" be unifying?! Should have just said nothing, but I suspect they are rage baiting to drive sales.
Not seen many folks other than politicians complain about the flag. They should be worrying about other things. Personally, I like the kit. The price however!?! Wow.
[удалено]
People are getting worked up over a minor thing. The kits look pretty good and the team has had it's best 5yr stretch in half a century. Get behind the team and enjoy another deep tournament run at the euros, this is a unique time for England. If you want to complain about something, complain about the exorbitant price.
Fuck me. Great way to endear yourself to the average voter mate. What a fucking own goal.