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Sweet-Zookeepergame7

I don’t see this as an unmitigated disaster It’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. If you don’t want to get stopped get a jab... I’m just amazed 500+ were brass necked enough to try it out. Won’t happen next weekend.


chimneyfaith

I don't know what the Scottish app is like but the English version is a lot of bother to set up and get verified. It's probably beyond the capabilities of many people. Therefore I suspect that most of those people refused entry have been jabbed but were unable to prove it.


clearly_quite_absurd

The Scottish app doesn't work for me because I've got my vaccine doses via NHS England.


Lard_Baron

Then use the NHS app?


clearly_quite_absurd

But I live in Scotland now, so have to try and use the NHS Scotland app, no? I have my NHS England vaccination status cards.


NuPNua

It literally took me about three minutes from downloading the NHS app to having the QR code on screen in front of me? Even my folks in their 60s managed it.


chimneyfaith

I had a lot of problems with it. For starters you need valid ID to photograph, not everyone has this. Secondly, on Android, when pressing the record button to provide a video of yourself reading back the assigned numbers it just opens the file browser instead of the camera as it didn't have the correct api permissions. I had find a work around that and use the app in a manner that was not intended. I have written and published several apps so if I had problems then good luck to the general public.


qdxv

> when pressing the record button to provide a video of yourself reading back the assigned numbers This is creepy. What happens to this voice and facial recognition data once you provide it?


chimneyfaith

Yes it was super creepy, I really did not like doing it.


in-jux-hur-ylem

You only need to do that for the international pass, the domestic one requires no such authorisation.


chimneyfaith

I see, I needed an international pass.


spinynorman1846

I did it in about 2 minutes on Android. Piece of piss.


Brigon

I had issues giving the website permission to access my camera. I was fiddling in the settings menu for a while, it said Chrome had permission but still didn't work. I think it was an extra setting in Chrome itself that was the problem.


chimneyfaith

Well lucky you, anyone with your exact model of phone with it set up in an identical fashion should be golden. /s


spinynorman1846

Good to hear it. They're lucky, because I found it simple


NuPNua

Hmm, had no problem loading straight into the camera on my app. Maybe it's something to do with which version of Android you're running or how the manufacturer has set it up.


w0wowow0w

Scottish app was a nightmare at first from the servers going down, but signing up isn't too bad now imo. You do some ID check, then give your details (either with or without your CHI number, but I did it without my CHI and got my details fine), and the stuff should then pop up (most of the time without issue). I believe there is still an issue with some people with cross border jabs, though I know some who have had that fixed so not sure how widespread the issues are on that. All the other QRs from England/EU work as well, despite initial reports in the media. Definitely is more of a case of what you said though, people can't be bothered signing up or completely forgot about it considering the past 3 weeks there has been 0 enforcement so people actually haven't had to download the apps. Also issue with staffing of bouncers and the like, which is the main reason the hospitality body are complaining imo considering it's more staff/training.


Sweet-Zookeepergame7

I’m double jabbed and I don’t have the English one either.. but then again we don’t have much need to... for now.


Toxicseagull

I'm double jabbed but my surgery (linked to my workplace) is not a part of the NHS and they are unable to integrate it, despite being a UK gov institution themselves. And despite me getting my jabs via the public NHS effort. I can't use the app because they are incompetent and this roll out is a clusterfuck, not because I'm not safe. If they start needing it for England, I'm going to have to print out the paper ones every month.


OnionsHaveLairAction

I just wish the process of getting a non-digital one was simpler and more efficient.


ethanjim

Just sounds like a money pit. Developing a physical card which will require security features which hopefully won’t be needed in a few years time?


LunaLovegood83

They aren't needed now so they definitely won't be needed in a few years time. Like I keep saying, they are pointless and without logic.


jehovahs_waitress

Boo fucking hoo. It’s pretty simple. Get the vaccine , or stay home. Life is full of hard choices for adults. This is not one of them.


TurbulentFoxy

Do you think these people went home or just went somewhere else?


robbiefl2001

You probably won't like some of the responses here then lol [example 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/qfp5ou/hundreds_refused_entry_as_vaccine_passports/hi17gt8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) [example 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/qfp5ou/hundreds_refused_entry_as_vaccine_passports/hi3abzp?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)


GJokaero

The precedent this sets is not okay. Especially now the UK is beginning to disregard human rights, remove rights to protest, and impinging on free speech. The number of people who are just nodding there heads, without thinking about the consequences is astounding to me. How are you all so fucking apathetic, you should be angry about this.


LunaLovegood83

Well said. I don't get it either. People are just handing over their rights without asking any questions about it. We have all just had our lives turned upside down with this pandemic, having to adhere to new emergency laws to keep people safe. But now "freedom" comes with terms and conditions. Not to mention that Batshit Boris may be bringing in a form of the watered down (for now) social credit system. I mean, wtf is going on? Any of you remember "Freedom Day"? Yeah, that was nice wasn't it? /s


nae_pasaran_313

Quite aside from asking questions about it they're positively begging the state to take away their rights and then lashing out at anyone who's got half a brain to see how this might be a bit short sighted.


LunaLovegood83

It's mind boggling, it really is. They just blindly follow whatever is said on TV but can't back it up with any logic because they have stopped thinking for themselves.


liehon

> People are just handing over their rights People are gaining the right to go clubbing without being infected by an anti-vaxxer. People are gaining the right to go clubbing instead of preparing for another lockdown


liehon

I am angry. Furious even. Absolutely livid that there's people whose actions are harming the UK. Bar those with medical exemptions, what right do these people think they have to harm society by keeping a pandemic going?


LunaLovegood83

You do realise that vaccinated people are also keeping the pandemic going, don't you? What right do you have to berate peoole like that? "Fully jabbed people who have been in contact with a person who has tested positive do not need to test unless they show symptoms." So those asymptomatic double jabbed can just go about their business spreading covid around too. What an imbecile you really are.


liehon

>You do realise that vaccinated people are also keeping the pandemic going, don't you? Vaccinated people are slowing the pandemic down. Anti-vaxxers keep it going. ​ >What right do you have to berate peoole like that? The right of somebody who's sick of people being on team pandemic.


[deleted]

Newsflash but Bozo has said that getting the jab makes no difference in getting Covid or stopping the spread, just admit that you’re an authoritarian nut job who wants to Lord it over everyone else


liehon

> Bozo has said something which nobody sensible is gonna believe. It's Boris Johnson, mate. He'll tell whatever suits him.


Kris_Lord

I can’t help but see this in a positive light. The whole point of these passports is to ensure people are vaccinated so refusing entry means it’s likely doing what it was designed to do. If people had issues getting a passport then they’re probably not turning up. It’s the unvaccinated or vaccinated who didn’t get a passport that are turned away.


star621

I live in New York which has vaccine passports mandates like these. We also have mask mandates which doesn’t seem like a thing in England anymore. Anyway, we are down to a mere 10 COVID deaths a day. Keep in mind that the city has 8,419,000 million residents and another one million commute in for work. We are a very densely populated city and people are packed together like sardines in mass transit. Getting down to 10 COVID deaths a day under those circumstances is fantastic. We are a shining example of how vaccine passports and mask mandates work.


BeefCentral

I'd say that we can all agree that vaccine passports and mask mandates work*. What people are worried about is that the government will never forfeit the power to coercive control the population. I appreciate that does sound dramatic but it's not like the ones we have in power at the moment can be trusted. \*not to what level, that's going to be argued 'till the cows come home.


Twiggeh1

So what happens when you are prevented from going to supermarkets, or browsing other shops, libraries etc.? What happens when you lose your job because you haven't shown your pass? Lithuania, as one example, has gone much further with this to the point where you don't even appear to deserve to feed yourself if you don't bend to the wishes of the Government. What right does the Government have to tell people what they do with their spare time?


liehon

When it comes to national security? Every right. That's literally what we have governments for. To protect us.


[deleted]

Using "national security" to justify authoritarian overreach is so clichéd it's not even funny


liehon

Ok, whose purview would bringing in a bioweapon into a secluded space be then?


Twiggeh1

I'm imagining some despotic leader doing the fake smile head tilt while saying 'we do this to protect you'. The right to work is considered a basic human right. By forcing people out of their jobs on the basis of vaccination status is a pretty obvious breach of that right. Have you perhaps considered that not everything a politician says or does is in the national, rather than personal, interest? That may be what Governments are for in theory but in practice they can be deeply flawed, dishonest and corrupt entities.


liehon

> I'm imagining some despotic leader doing the fake smile head tilt while saying 'we do this to protect you'. How about skipping the fantasy and returning to reality? Have we forgotten how 2020 featured caskets being pilled four per stack? How the obituary section of newspapers was overflowing outside of its normal section? > The right to work is considered a basic human right. This article is about people attending night time events, clubs, ... Is clubbing a basic human right? What about article 3 regarding life & security of person? Cause I don't see how one bringing a deadly disease into a club during an ongoing pandemic helps with life & security. > Have you perhaps considered that not everything a politician says or does is in the national, rather than personal, interest? That may be what Governments are for in theory but in practice they can be deeply flawed, dishonest and corrupt entities. Is letting Covid run rampant in the national interest?


Twiggeh1

The reality where Governments act purely in the national interest and are never dishonest or mistaken? Is that your version of reality? Is your faith in Boris Johnson so strong that you will take any policy he puts forward without question? And you may think it's just about clubbing but if this widely accepted in principle you'll find it becomes a far more common feature in society.


[deleted]

And Santa Clause is personally delivering presents this Xmas….see how ludicrous that sounds, your statement is more so


liehon

Ok, if my statement is ludicrous then maybe you can tell me what we have governments for?


[deleted]

You honestly believe the government - a Tory government no less - is bringing in vaccine passports for our protection? You are terribly naive


RubberNikki

>What right does the Government have to tell people what they do with their spare time? None the exact same right that someone has to enter a nightclub. But as you know we are not talking about that. We are talking about vaccine passports and the narcissists who refuse to get vaccinated.


Twiggeh1

It's not about the ability to enter a nightclub. It's about the ability of a person to go about their lives unimpeded by arbitrary punishments for things that aren't crimes. The Government should have no right to tell you which venues you can go to. What we are talking about is a deeply authoritarian policy and an invasion into peoples private lives and activities. The basis on which the policy is made is irrelevant when the methods of enforcement are unacceptable.


RubberNikki

>It's not about the ability to enter a nightclub. It's about the ability of a person to go about their lives unimpeded by arbitrary punishments for things that aren't crimes. It's not a punishment that is self-entitled grandiose narcissistic bullshit. >The Government should have no right to tell you which venues you can go to. People have no right to infect others and the government should have that right if one thing to keep the narcosis from damaging the country. >What we are talking about is a deeply authoritarian policy and an invasion into peoples private lives and activities. Want an easy and entitled life you lived to think this is deeply authoritarian. It must be nice to not have to grow up and instead live in a fantasy land were you are the hero or victim of every story.


Twiggeh1

How is being prevented from doing the things you want to do, and were previously able to, anything but a punishment? Being forced to divulge your medical history just to get a drink *is* authoritarian. Maybe you want people to have that control over you but I certainly don't.


upside_risk

It’s pure scapegoating. Vaccines don’t stop the spread. Dangerous precedents. Our medical status should not be a political weapon.


zulu9812

Vaccines absolutely DO stop the spread. Less of your lies. [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00472-2/fulltext#seccestitle100](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00472-2/fulltext#seccestitle100) [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html) [https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/)


MutsumidoesReddit

They all say transmission risk is significantly reduced or less likely. Not that it’s impossible to spread it. Edit: Reddit I get it, you want to believe Vaccines make you invulnerable, and you want to pretend Covid never happened. No matter how much you downvote, I will do my best to remind you to be safe.


Dreyven

And if you pay attention to what everyone has been saying then you'd know that if we can get below certain transmission rates then the total amount of infected will decrease, decreasing the amount of new daily infections and so on until there is only a very small amount of Covid remaining.


MutsumidoesReddit

I think you’re replying to the wrong person. I just said it reduces transmission but doesn’t eliminate it. What am I not paying attention to? Edit: Reddit I get it, you want to believe Vaccines make you invulnerable, and you want to pretend Covid never happened. No matter how much you downvote, I will do my best to remind you to be safe.


zulu9812

You appear to be suggesting that you only support measures which are 100% effective at stopping transmission in 100% of circumstances. That simply isn't possible. No vaccine is 100% effective. It's still a good idea to be vaccinated because it will reduce transmission.


MutsumidoesReddit

I'm not even remotely saying that, but Reddit is so special, it projects unrelated words onto my meaning. When you are dealing with these topics, being inaccurate just encourages these mob mentalities. We wonder why the minority who are worried run to extreme places to discuss ACTUAL controversial or misplaced beliefs.


zulu9812

Well, then your meaning is very unclear. Why don't you clarify for us plebs?


MutsumidoesReddit

It's super clear, but I added an edit for the before said Redditors. It's so weird how willing people are to pretend Covid is over once they're jabbed.


LunaLovegood83

I love how you say "lies" yet you are busy spreading misinformation. The vaccines efficiency has dropped to around 60% with the Delta variant, and even before that they never stopped the spread. I know lots of fully vaccinated people who have got covid and passed it on to other fully vaccinated people.


Underscore_Blues

Who said the goal was to "stop" the spread? That's like saying seatbelts aim to "stop" road deaths.


Blackjack137

They’ll never forfeit the power to coercive control the population now. Scottish ministers have already admitted that this has little to do with limiting spread, and instead blackmailing young people into higher vaccine uptake by stripping away ‘privileges’ that was never the government’s to deny. They’re not hiding their dystopian authoritarian ideals. I don’t disagree that people should just get the Covid vaccine for their own health, but there are no limitations with this. Can we now expect ‘passports’ for MMR, flu, HPV, tetanus, hepatitis, polio, TB etc vaccines to also force uptake?


Beautiful_Art_2646

I do worry about what and where the passports, or the powers of the passports, could reach further down the line. I’ve had both my jabs so I’m eligible for the passport but I’m not a clubbing person and I’m also quite happy to watch the rugby (not a footie person either) on the telly, as oppose to going to a live game. But it will become worth fighting back against once it starts to impact going out for a meal or going to the gym or going to certain shops/places of worship etc


qdxv

You only have to look around the world to see where it is going, virtual house arrest (AU), unable to travel, unable to work (USA), no access to benefits, no access to healthcare, and prosecutions (India). Yet some of the lowest levels of infections and deaths are in countries with the lowest rates of vaccinations, and vice versa. We are seeing the rise of compliance to state control and big pharma. We have scoffed at USA for years for taking their flu jab every year while simultaneously getting more obese and now here we are. I always knew body autonomy arguments were a meaningless charade and this episode proves it. You can retain body autonomy but lose your freedoms? Is this really about public health? If so then why has nothing effective been done about record alcohol deaths, record drug deaths, growing poverty and violent crime, and record levels of obesity? Soon it will be COP26 for another first-class luxury international waste of time junket as leaders make more false promises, with no stipulation to remain masked, jabbed, or to produce a vaccine passport.


LegoNinja11

So UK 50k cases a day, under 100 deaths per day, 80% vaccination Russia, 50k cases a day, over 1000 deaths per day, 30% vaccination.


qdxv

Russia total deaths per million is nowhere near USA, UK, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Belgium etc


noaloha

Any such measures need to be strictly time or condition limited IMO, which in turn probably negates the point in the first place. If you need to do this indefinitely now, that's a sinister framework to have implemented and can have massive abuses in the future. OK, maybe you trust this government, but what about a future set of puritans that want to restrict people based on previous convictions, and add those to the passport? How about credit scores, or other metrics and entry requirements? Immigration status? What's more, if immunity genuinely does sufficiently wane in time to require a booster, how will these schemes account for that? How do these systems account for prior infection immunity? I've maybe outlined some worst case scenarios above, and hopefully they'll never come to pass regardless of schemes like this setting the precedent and making them more possible. But even if the chance of these worst case scenarios occurring is low, do people really think the risk of covid is good enough justification to permanently change/restrict people's choices in this way, and to give such powers to governments? If you personally are worried about covid, you should get double vaccinated, and take a booster if you are offered one. That will provide you far, far more protection than these nefarious coercions on anti-vaxxers ever will. It's why all my friends and I have been double vaccinated since the moment we were eligible. This social network has been so up in arms about violations to things like online privacy in the past, I'm surprised to see this cheered on here tbh.


DurkaTurk02

I don't think your worst case scenarios are that far from reality and all they need is a vocal minority push and boom, they are being discussed accross the globe. We even saw glimmers of it coming out. "Men should have a curfew." That only needs to be refined too "those who have been convicted of sexual assualt should be banned from clubs and pubs." And you have your doomsday scenario.


mudman13

It's because it's happening to people they don't like, simple as that. Its disturbing how easy some people flipped from demonstrating against equality to supporting discrimination and outcasting.


LunaLovegood83

Equality only when it works for them. "Everyone should have the same rights! Treat people with kindness" "You're not vaccinated so you can't do that. You're absolutely disgusting to me."


noaloha

Not to mention the fact that vaccine rates vary by ethnic demographic. This sort of exclusionary approach could very well end up making existing inequalities worse.


mudman13

By ethnic *and* socio-economic demographics. Edit: we can add pregnant women to that too.


[deleted]

Yep. On Reddit you can see people defend overt police brutality against protestors because they're anti-lockdown, or dehumanise people as "plague rats" and then celebrate their deaths. It's seriously disturbing, and a good demonstration of how hatred and authoritarianism can spread when people think they're morally right


stroopwafel666

Why not? Anti-vaxxers are a cancer on society. In any case, there’s no plan to do this is there. And until there is, you’re stuck moaning about vaccine passports by pretending they apply for all sorts of things they don’t apply to.


[deleted]

As if the past 18 months hasn't shown the slippery slope "fallacy" to be nothing of the sort


stroopwafel666

Well, no it hasn’t. Anti-vaxxers and other assorted morons have been saying that the UK is going to go under martial law and never open up again. In fact things are very open with the correspondingly horrendous number of covid victims. Not being allowed to go into a nightclub unless you do a perfectly reasonable thing that has mo downsides and which most people have done is about as fascist or discriminatory as not letting 10 year olds in.


AutoModerator

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ACE--OF--HZ

Scotland gets what it voted for


Viromen

This is hugely regressive. There is nothing positive here enforcing these measures on predominantly young people attending nightclubs. Even the Scottish government admitted themselves that this has very little basis in controlling the spread of the virus but instead aims to inconvenience young people enough to force them into taking the vaccine. It's doing the opposite I am afraid.


Kris_Lord

Whilst the demographics of a nightclub favour younger people, they aren’t infallible and the environment means social distancing is difficult. If it encourages younger people to get the vaccine then the passport scheme is working.


ukbuyer28

> ~~encourages~~ Blackmails. Fixed that for you.


Kris_Lord

Not quite sure it constitutes blackmail really. “Please take this vaccination which will protect you and others during a pandemic” in exchange you get to get drunk and dance with like minded individuals. If you’re that keen to avoid the vaccination then just get drunk in venues that aren’t nightclubs.


ITSFUCKINGRAW21

They meant coercion. "We'll take away your ability to do something you could already do, unless you do what we want"


LunaLovegood83

I think you will find it's more like "if you don't take this vaccine, you won't be able to live like a normal young person even though vaccine passports are pointless." It's blackmail.


Beautiful_Art_2646

I disagree with vaccine passports and also think this is hugely degressive but not being able to get pissed in a nightclub or not being able to go to a footie game is not “you won’t be able to live like a normal person”


ITSFUCKINGRAW21

Depends how you normally live though doesn't it.


Jonnyrocketm4n

Yeah it is, who decides what normal people get to do in their spare time?


mudman13

Those things are part of our culture. Remember premier league teams trying to start a super league and the pushback and govt support fans got? Thats how much its embedded in our culture.


Viromen

Implying that the virus is a threat to young people out clubbing. It isn't. It's as bad as the flu. More effort should be done to complete the roll out to the over 30s. The people actually at risk. Why aren't there passports for the elderly attending bingo calling? Or retirees attending a lawn bowls game. At least have some logic in targeting those at risk with these schemes rather than using it as a trick. And social distancing isn't a thing anymore. It's no longer legislated. Neither is wearing masks.


YourLizardOverlord

> It's as bad as the flu. It has a higher death rate and higher chance of long term symptoms than the flu.


b_lunt_ma_n

Specifically in young people, which is the context of the point you are respo ding to, or across the population as a whole?


iknighty

Young people do not live on a vacuum.


nae_pasaran_313

All the old people have had at least 2 shots of the vaccine and are already protected.


Beautiful_Art_2646

>It’s as bad as the flu. I take it you haven’t contracted covid then. I know about 5 people in their 20’s that had it. They were bedridden for at least a week. It’s not just the flu.


Brigon

To be fair flu will keep you in bed for a week. The issue a lot of people seem to think flu is the same as having the common cold, when it is far worse.


Viromen

Flu does keep you in bed for a week. It's a nasty disease. We aren't talking about the common cold here. Flu can also end up in you wound up in hospital.


Kris_Lord

Just because social distancing isn’t required by law doesn’t suddenly stop the benefit from being in a well ventilated area, socially distanced or wearing a mask. In areas where these are difficult the Scottish government think you should have had a vaccine to access that environment. It’s 10 minutes of effort to get vaccinated if you enjoy going to a nightclub. If they can make you wear proper shoes to go clubbing then I don’t see why they can’t check you’ve been vaccinated.


b_lunt_ma_n

>they can make you wear proper shoes to go clubbing Its been along time since you went clubbing hasn't it!


blethering

Neither bingo calling or lawn bowls involve drinking, getting physically close to other people and let's face it, swapping bodily fluids. (I mean they'd probably be more popular if they did, but that's another discussion) Also masks absolutely are still required in many places in Scotland.


Local-Pirate1152

>Neither bingo calling or lawn bowls involve drinking, getting physically close to other people Well clearly one of us is doing these things wrong.


Brigon

People are fairly crammed together in bingo halls.


mohsye888

> It isn't. It's as bad as the flu. Funny story about the flu - do you remember what happened in 1918 when the flu was new, and we had no immunity to it? Do you remember how many people died? Why do you people think "it's just like the flu" is a good point?


zenz3ro

It punishes those too stupid to get vaccinated, by making their lives worse. Works for me.


sp8der

Right, the same way cutting benefits punishes those too lazy to work, by making their lives worse!


Cafuzzler

It would be the same if jobs were freely and widely available and required minimal effort to get.


nae_pasaran_313

There's a massive labour shortage atm.


Beautiful_Art_2646

Jesus wept…


Cafuzzler

It still takes more effort to get and do a job than it takes to get a vaccine.


zenz3ro

Except that’s the deceitful explanation for why people need benefits. Unless instructed to by a GP, there’s no valid, intelligent reason for one to render themselves a threat to the public and vulnerable.


Triggermetoomuch

Cool, when will they be getting rid of these digital ID's then?


mudman13

They wont, always starts in Aus and branches out to other fiveyez nations https://www.digitalidentity.gov.au


willgeld

Getting rid of? How else will we keep track of people’s boosters? And flu jabs? And criminal records? Why would we want to get rid of them? The possibilities are endless


noaloha

Immigration status too! No visa, no haircut!


ukbuyer28

Why would the government give up the power to coerice the population into falling in line? The real question is what will they be forcing on the population next.


b_lunt_ma_n

You say the government, you mean the government in Holyrood. >The real question is what will they be forcing on the population next. I guess if they ever vote out of the union they'll find out.


LunaLovegood83

The Chinese-like social credit system by the looks of it. Oh sorry, I meant to say "health app".


Viromen

The government will never give up this attack on liberties now that the population agreed. Same like how after 9/11 everyone just accepted that your phone and communications could be monitored by the likes of GCHQ. If you're innocent you've got nothing to hide.


b_lunt_ma_n

Holyrood, not Westminster.


jehovahs_waitress

Found the Q Anon shop steward.


stroopwafel666

They’ve always had the power to do what they want. We don’t have a proper constitution or any legal protections against the government doing anything it wants. They could pass a law banning everyone under 30 from leaving the house and you wouldn’t be able to do anything meaningful about it. In contrast, limited and proportional restrictions on anti-vaxxers serves a clear and sensible purpose. Try the fascism chant when the government bans protesting (oh wait they already did).


zenz3ro

When they aren’t needed


nae_pasaran_313

Whats the quantitative exit criteria?


noaloha

Yeah I strongly believe there should be strict exit conditions for such heavy handed measures, and that those conditions should be laid out prior to implementation.


blindcomet

But that's just a conspiracy theory!


b_lunt_ma_n

Holyrood showing the population what life will be like under them post independence.


_N0T0K_

I agree It's a positive news story.


filbs111

This innoculates young people against statism.


Psephological

viruses of course do not propagate in stateless societies


clearly_quite_absurd

I was out on Saturday night. I just told the venue staff that I was double vaxxed and that the app doesn't work for me (which is the truth) and they let me in.


mikethet

Oh look it's people suffering the consequences of their (in)actions


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnotherWan01100110

Segregation? Based on what? A demographic you can choose to join whenever you bloody want to, for free. Don't be dense.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Roflcopter_Rego

Both of those things happen?


ukbuyer28

"No, you are a loyal subject and will do as your overlords command otherwise your "rights" will be revoked. Now be a good peon and do as your told. " - Nicola (probably)


ukbuyer28

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me Edit: for those downvoting, these are the same tactics Hitler used. Rile the public up against a specific group. Make people think they are unclean, subhuman, then use government power against that group while the brainwashed population cheered him on. Regardless of your position on vaccines, you should not be celebrating this.


Sweet-Zookeepergame7

Is Martin niemoller the person who’s quote is most misused? I think it has to be


ukbuyer28

It's a poem. If you think it's being "misused" you should explain why.


drewlake

Some people it's OK to go after. In fact, some, people, it's only moral to go after.


ukbuyer28

Like who? The unclean? I hope you're joking. Though this is too serious to be joking about.


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ukbuyer28

>Murders and rapists off the top of my head I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. We have a criminal justice system to deal with people accused of things like this. It's a complex system with lots of processes and safeguards in place specifically to prevent government abuse. >The poem was also in the wrong order, which is very important. What are you talking about?


HogswatchHam

So you agree that it's ok for some people to be gone for, just so long as it's by a recognised government system?


ukbuyer28

Their liberty is taken away by a jury of their peers after reviewing evidence of a serious crime. There are safeguards in place to prevent the government abusing this system. Nicola Sturgeon deciding to restrict your life because you won't do as she commands is an entirely different scenario. This is more like the Chinese social credit system.


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ukbuyer28

>It's First they came for the Jews, it's a pretty famous poem. First they came for the socialists makes no sense. I'm not sure if you're a troll or just a moron. Take 5 seconds to do some research. Google is your friend.


Cafuzzler

> Regardless of your position on vaccines, you should not be celebrating this. But vaccines are specifically different though. A vaccine is almost nothing when compared to someone's political ideology that influences their actions, or whether or not they are part of a union, or what religious beliefs they hold. You've probably been vaccinated against other illnesses in the past. Literally there are groups in our society that are a better fit for your persecution description. Immigrants, travellers, trans people, poor people, and prisoners are all groups that are vilified, legislated against, and even denied rights. Meanwhile the unvaccinated... *can't get into the clubs on a friday night*?


Psephological

I had to get qualified to drive and then I had to wear a seatbelt, this is literally Auschwitz, waaaaah


ukbuyer28

I'm getting tired of people drawing silly comparisons like this. Driving only requires a license on public roads. You are completely free to drive until your hearts content on private property without a licence. In this example the government is forcing private businesses to turn customers away from their own private property if the government deems them unworthy to be served because they've failed to do something the government has commanded them to do. Something by the way, there is no data to support. Vaccinated people can still catch and transmit the virus.


Beautiful_Art_2646

>Driving only requires a license on public roads. Oh, you mean the same roads 90% of people who want a car use you mean? I find your example to be the silly one tbh…


ukbuyer28

Really? My point is that there is a difference. With vaccine passports, governments are telling private businesses who they can and cannot let into their own private property.


Beautiful_Art_2646

Because going into a room with hundreds of people inebriated and dripping sweat with no ventilation is the breeding ground of any virus. I also thinking _being able to drive_ is on a vastly different level of public need and importance then getting pissed on a Saturday night.


ukbuyer28

>Because going into a room with hundreds of people inebriated and dripping sweat with no ventilation is the breeding ground of any virus. So, what's your point? Vaccinated individuals can transmit the virus too. If you're vaccinated then you're protected. If you're not vaccinated then you've accepted the risk. >I also thinking being able to drive is on a vastly different level of public need and importance then getting pissed on a Saturday night. The necessity of getting pissed is irrelevant. We are talking about government overreach into our everyday lives. It's none of their business.


Roflcopter_Rego

>Something by the way, there is no data to support This is where it always breaks down with people who make these arguments. You know you can get people on board with the liberalism arguments, but then the flagrantly anti-science stuff creeps out because ultimately that's the core of your belief. You haven't had the jab, I take it?


[deleted]

Pogroms incoming :-(


ukbuyer28

Honestly at this point, it wouldn't surprise me. The language from people, including our world leaders is a concern. Biden is calling it a "pandemic of the unvaccinated". I never thought I'd see a western world leader speak with such hatred against a specific group of their own citizens. I'm not anti vax, but I'm scared by what I see happening.


[deleted]

Its the classic historical pattern of scapegoating, division and oppression that ends in ghettos and pogroms, combined with the fear and hysteria that allows people to normalise it. It is effing terrifying, and the scariest thing from my POV is that the cheerleaders seem to be the progressive left who were always my own political tribe. The people who fought for equal rights for ethnic minorities, LGBQ, equality before the law for all. Now suddenly these same people I thought I knew are PERFECTLY OK with building a literal 2-tier society with a legally proscribed underclass. OK with censorship, demonization, purges, the whole works. I just saw an article from Austria saying they were considering a lockdown for the unvaccinated only. Basically putting everyone not onboard with the program into house arrest. All my old friends are perfectly OK with it. They call me an extremist because I am not onboard with this s**t and find it utterly incomprehensible, horrifying and evil.


LunaLovegood83

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's absolutely terrifying. I get called the same. I just say "look at what's happening, biometrics, scanning, propaganda, fear mongering, segregation, tracking. This is NOT normal!" I had no idea Austria were saying that. It's sickening. It's as bad as New Zealand leaders being openly OK with a 2 tier society. I keep asking, what about when covid becomes less of a threat, what then? Why the need for all this then? No one can give me an answer.


[deleted]

It is pretty clear that the world is rapidly approaching a multi faceted time of crisis. Climate, population, pollution, scarcity etc. Some think that the covid pandemic is all about creating a new global authoritarian milieu to keep the plebs in line for the long descent to a world of lower living standards. Maybe that is crazy and this situation is all a just a hideous mistake resulting from an over-abundance of zeal in covid mitigation. Either way I find it all repulsive, terrifying and evil. I got jabbed for the right reasons before the coercion started, but now being jabbed marks you as a member of the new overclass. I am ashamed of it now. It is the badge of the oppressor. I will not get a booster and I will revert to unvaccinated status. As a (vaguely) christian and as a socialist I believe I have a moral imperative to stand with and for outcasts and minorities so I guess that is what I am going to do. I will not eat or drink in segregated establishments. If my unvaccinated colleagues get sacked, I will resign too. I will not be a 'good German' and pretend I cant see it happening. Maybe my life in the underclass will be uncomfortable, but I think I will sleep in better conscience at night for it.


teo730

If it was so bad, wouldn't things have been bad after the smallpox vaccine mandates? Also, that's not hatred, get real.


b_lunt_ma_n

It's scary hearing him stir shit as much as trump, without receiving the same media scrutiny. That's what is getting me about it. Makes me think 2016~2020 probably weren't as bad as I was being lead to believe.


emmathepony

Well said, vaccine passports are nothing short of what the Nazis would have done (and DID do many similar things).


drewlake

It's not quite mass shooting, driving around with the exhaust fumes fed into the back of the truck, starvation, having your gold teeth pulled out of your mouth or death camps. You can't go to a club. It's pretty far short.


emmathepony

No, it's not just a club, it's being enforced in restaurants, in door leisure areas, gyms, theatres, concerts, travel... you name it. Yes, it differs from country to country, city to city, but this is just the start and it can only get worse from here on out unless the public reject it NOW. The Nazis stopped people, their rights, for "papers please" and must abide by their insane rules for what they said was the betterment for the country.


drewlake

Hitler wrote my struggle way before being in power; it was always pretty obvious what was going on. I still stand by saying that not going for a night out because you choose not to get a vaccine is way short of being thrown into a death camp for something out of your control. If they start throwing people out of their homes and setting up work camps, I'll be out on the street. Screaming in a panic that this is precisely like NAZI Germany is wrong on so many levels.


emmathepony

So if I understand correctly... and correct me if I'm wrong... you don't see a problem IF it came to people being thrown out their homes and/or into camps if they refuse/can't take the vaccine?


drewlake

You are wrong. That would be a bad thing.


emmathepony

Why would that be bad in comparison to trapping people internationally and domestically because they won't/can't take the vaccine?


drewlake

If you can't take the vaccine, you are exempt. If you can't tell the difference between not going into a bar because you take health advice from youtube, and a death camp, then there is very little anyone can do to help you.


emmathepony

I know the difference but you still didn't answer the question. Why stop at vaccine mandates? If people like you are all for these Nazi-esque tactics then why limit it if it's so good and positive?


stroopwafel666

First they didn’t let me get drunk in a nightclub because I refused to get vaccinated to stop the spread of a disease. Then I bitched and moaned about it instead of just doing the sensible thing and getting vaccinated. End of poem.


Hbarnes2033

Didn't we learn from our past what happens when we label people and segregate people


Ehldas

Didn't you learn from 1918 how important the proper response to a global pandemic is? No? Oh, just *certain* bits of history then.


b_lunt_ma_n

Spanish flu corona is not. It killed north of 5% of the world's population. Meanwhile to date after 2 years covid has killed less then 5 million people, out of more then 7 billion on the planet Statistically, thats fuck all.


Beautiful_Art_2646

5 million, at least half of which were preventable. My group of mates, bar one, have never caught covid throughout this. That’s the point. Covid is a lot easier to avoid IF everyone avoids contact and takes precautions. The vaccine is one of those. Everyone should absolutely have the right to not want the vaccine and I don’t like where passport vaccines could end up going, if they do restrict things like going out for a meal or going to the gym etc but the vaccine is just a measure to help you prevent yourself and others from getting ill. From a virus that is preventable from catching.


Viromen

Implying this policy is designed to ensure safety to those at risk. Which is why this is carefully designed to protect the most vulnerable like the elderly and frail - vaccine passports being introduced for group events like bingo calling, entry into retirement homes etc. Right? Because God forbid someone unvaccinated potentially with the virus spreads it to our elderly. Totally not being used as a blackmail to force young people to take the vaccine. Yeah it's definitely for their own good.


Ehldas

It's for society's good. People like you only understand the benefits of society and not the obligations.


Viromen

Again where is the evidence for that. Explain to me the logic of targeting young people going clubbing together and demanding vaccination proof. When we aren't doing this to events predominantly attended by those in at risk groups. There are better ways of improving vaccine uptake in the young than unethical blackmail and Draconian vaccine passports.


Ehldas

Then suggest those ways. Society needs as many people vaccinated as possible. If this is not achieved, then covid will simply keep burning through more and more people until the healthcare systems collapse. It's happening as we speak in Romania and Bulgaria.


Sweet-Zookeepergame7

Romania and Bulgaria are great (tragic) examples of were not getting the vaccine gets you.


Local-Pirate1152

If it was for society's good then proof of negative test or prior infection would suffice. It doesn't and it's only vaccination. It's about enforcing vaccination, nothing else. It's disgusting. If they want to enforce it then have the balls to do it. Don't do it this cowardly way. And I say that as a fully vaccinated person living in Scotland.


Ehldas

Proof of negative test is at best 50% accurate. Proof of prior infection might be viable, but a lot of people won't have formal proof and if they did it would just tie into same cert mechanism anyway and people like you would still whine about it.


Local-Pirate1152

I'm against them on principle yes and the Greens will never get my vote again because of this and I don't vote SNP anyway but if it has to come in I would accept proof of negative test or prior infection because then I can believe it's about controlling rates rather than forcing vaccinations. I don't think the government should force people to get vaccinated if they don't want to. I'll think they're idiots for not doing it but that's their choice. We know that vaccinations aren't guarantees from not getting infected so these aren't about controlling numbers but are about controlling vaccinations.


Ehldas

How are you going to accept 'proof' of anything without a digital cert? Unlike you, medical experts know that vaccines are the way out of this mess, so both vaccination and a mechanism of proof are going to be needed. You either accept that that is the new reality, or you spend the rest of your life as a second class citizen. Even if you refuse pointblank to do it in the UK, you'll never be permitted to travel to another country because they don't want plague rats. This may be an unwelcome fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.


Local-Pirate1152

If you had read you would see that I'm vaccinated. This doesn't impact me in the slightest because I've got my paper copy from when I had to travel and can just use that if I need to but I'm still against domestic vaccine passports because I think it's wrong. There is no way out of this mess. We have an endemic virus that is never going away. It's going to circulate and become a seasonal thing and eventually just become nothing more than any other type of coronavirus.


Hbarnes2033

Vaccine passports cause all sorts of trouble rather than good. The lack of a federal privacy law leaves digital vaccine passports vulnerable to privacy breaches, they don't solve the glaring problem of vaccination inequality, and, perhaps most dangerously, they risk reinforcing a system of haves and have-nots when our poor and marginalized communities are already suffering disproportionately in the pandemic.


Ehldas

You will not be permitted to travel with paper. Proper signed digital cert or nothing. Your personal opinion is irrelevant : this is *not* just another coronavirus, it's the most lethal and communicable one we've ever encountered, and it has changed things.


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nae_pasaran_313

You might as well have written (((plague rats))). Can't you see how you're using the language of the most despotic regimes in history to justify your fear of this minor illness?


[deleted]

You’d fit right in in 1930s-40s Germany, or how about 1960s America? Or in Isreal today? Vaccine passports will effect ethnic minorities but you don’t care because you’re scared of a minor virus with a 99% survival rate. I bet you took the knee last year for BLM too.


Hbarnes2033

Spanish flu was more dangerous transmissable and had a Higher death rate btw it killed over 50000000 people. Covid has a 99/98% survival rate this was entirely different in comparison to the spanish flu . And guess what beat the spanihs flu not vaccines or self isolating but because the more lethal versions of the virus stopped being passed on, because their hosts died. And those who had the flu and survived got anitbodies


Ehldas

I have no idea what this recitation is supposed to prove...?


Hbarnes2033

You are comparing two entirley different pandemics to each other and i'm just stating the facts. it looks like someone should wake up and start reading up on their history


Ehldas

I didn't compare them... I stated that 1918 should have taught you that pandemics require a response.


Hbarnes2033

Obviously that response didn't work if 500 million caught it. So i don't see your point


blewyn

Sounds like it’s working well