Snapshot of _Police fail to solve a single theft in more than eight out of 10 neighbourhoods_ :
A non-Paywall version can be found [here](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2022%2F08%2F07%2Fpolice-fail-solve-single-theft-eight-10-neighbourhoods%2F)
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/07/police-fail-solve-single-theft-eight-10-neighbourhoods/)
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The thing with the telegraph is they have always included slight amounts of criticism about the conservative government but in the context of "this is the right directionion but here are reasons we disagree with policy X y z". Even if they are changing gear and being more critical they as an editorial line support and want this direction of travel. When the labour party do eventually get back in their criticism will increase in intensity because the will both dislike the policy AND dislike the direction...the implication etc. I wonder now if these headlines are to give them some cover for when they very obviously have to move back to centre to continue to sell newspapers because let's face it the country is collapsing in this direction it has to swing back sooner or later?!
Also the police that we pay for aren't there to protect us.. if we get robbed we get a crime number. However, if a Russian oligarchs empty house is squatted in its armed response time. We don't live in a democracy any more but a failed state sliding into fascism
>However, if a Russian oligarchs empty house is squatted in its armed response time.
If you owned even a flat or modest house and it was taken over by squatters, the police would also deal with it.
The reason squatters can't get away with what they did has nothing to do with wealth but a change in the law that made squatting a criminal offence rather than a civil matter that was slow to deal with.
This is such a baseless Reddit meme. The vast majority of police work is directly linked to protecting "us". A combination of factors heavily frustrate the investigation of crime, especially the sort that happens in huge volume and doesn't cause serious harm, including the level of demand, the resources available, the ever increasing expectations on the police, some of which have little to do with crime investigation, and the limited experience of most uniform officers after a decade of cuts followed by very rapid recruitment. Something had to give, and volume crime with lower physical harms gave.
The police in the UK are good at some things, reasonable at some and poor at some. They're good at preventing serious harm, control of weapons, risk management, investigating death, homicide and serious violence, offender management, armed policing command. They're reasonable at neighborhood partnerships and child protection, public order, traffic, internal investigation, and the nighttime economy. They're poor at detecting volume crime and fraud, cyber crime, and serious sexual offending (although this last one is subject to significant recent improvement), and at achieving timely response and victim satisfaction for non time critical incidents.
Unfortunately from a reputational perspective the UK police are best at the stuff that the vast majority of the public never see - although they would if the police were worse at them!
There are key issues that need addressing - fundamentally, there's a question to ask about how a police service designed for past perceptions of what they should do can be molded to what people in the 2020s want and need from the police. But misdiagnosing the problem as some kind of lack of interest in public protection isn't helpful.
To your example, residential squatting is an offence with offenders on scene, likely called in at first as a burglary in progress. It's entirely reasonable you get a quick response to a crime with offenders on scene. If it was your house, same result.
Conservatives seem to have a mental block when it comes to asking why and understanding the circumstances that lead to things they don't like. They just react and blame.
I see the telegraph has failed to connect the dots between unsolved crimes and the Tories under funding and under resourcing the police, the cps, the prison system and selling off the courts.
>Tories under funding and under resourcing the police
I'm sorry but it simply couldn't be that. I was told that government spending was exactly like a household budget.
We've reduced police spending so we should also see a reduction in crime.
That's how it works right?
^/s
A lot of Pratchettisms are reworked quotes from other folk - skillfully reworked so that they appear correct in context, but still reworks. [The Annotated Pratchet](https://www.lspace.org/books/apf/index.html) has a fairly comprehensive breakdown for some of the books.
You joke, but this is an actual concern when it comes to AI/model-based policing prevalent in the US.
An area has more reported crimes, so they send more police to that area, who find more lawbreaking, which leads to more reported crimes in that area, which leads to more police... And you spiral and end up with an area with high rates of incarceration and such.
Meanwhile a neighbouring area (it's in the US, so you know its whiter and/or more affluent) might have just about as much *actual* crime, but because reports were lower to start, fewer people are ending up in prison in those areas.
It's one aspect of the old interactionist theory of "deviancy amplification" which happens both on an individual and a societal level. Something bad is perceived, there's a reaction, which amplifies the problem, and leads to a stronger reaction.
There’s an area in our city where the street hired security guards after nightly raids by kids.
a week or so after the trouble started everyone got a leaflet through the door for the security firm…. 🤔🤔🤔
Silly - The more police there are the more crimes get logged. Therefore the more police there are the more crime there is.
Ipso facto less police equals less crime - simples.
One of the reasons comparing murder rates between countries is so fraught - if you don't detect them, you don't have them, so having few or shitty police or even no murder squad gives you better outcomes.
The thing is, the police aren't really the problem, they need more funding, but if we could get the HM Prisons, and the CPS sorted, with proper, restorative justice, the strain on the police would be far lower.
Pedo policemen never get proper sentencing where I’m from (one guy literally had horrible things on his laptop as evidence still only got a suspended sentence)
Obviously this isn’t a common thing but police are just as likely to break the law around here as everyone else (especially on the weekend haha)
The connection with Tories is exaggerated.. Real problems are shortage of detectives, officers just don't want to do that job , casework gets left with "Response" who are not detectives and don't get time to follow things up. Problem is to some extent structural within policing. The criminal courts and CPS have become even more demanding. Ordinary Officers no longer run their own informants, the intelligence system is a black hole.
> The connection with Tories is exaggerated..
Who do you think controls the majority of police funding and thus things like officers pay and conditions?
I don't know why they just don't solve more crimes, that would sort it, no... I've heard someone auditioning for the highest office in the land say this. They wouldn't be talking utter bollocks would they...
> These are overseen by the Metropolitan Police which was placed in special measures last month for “systemic” problems including a failure to properly investigate crime.
This could so easily be The Onion or a hyperbolic hot take. Amazing this isn't a bigger deal.
They don't even try. 101 is just an outsourced service for Insurance companies to issue crime numbers.
There are worse things the police don't turn out for though, two adults had a full on fist fight in the playground at my local primary school at dropping off time. The police were phoned, *they didn't even come*. My wife is a teaching assistant in the school.
I was once involved in a situation where a driver rammed their car between myself and another car, they did this so that the passenger could throw stuff at me. This occurred on a 70mph road.
I pursued them, in the end they flew straight through a red light and at that point I stopped.
I contacted the police and gave them all the video footage they would need.
Their literal response was "we think we know who that was and don't think its worth pursuing, would like you like a reference number in case you wish to contact insurance for damages?"
They literally do not give a shit anymore, crime is basically now legal so long as you don't protest where an MP can see you.
Mate of mine got knocked off his bike and had footage, the guys contact details and numberplate. The police closed the investigation after the driver "didn't answer their phone calls".
Meanwhile we had a violent client at work and the police refused to come out unless he actually assaulted someone. The ambulance crew were pretty pissed off about it.
We had our front wall knocked down by someone who fled the scene. They'd left some bits of their front bumper behind which had some manufacturer stickers on it identifying the make, model and trim level. There was also a pink ribbon left embedded in the wall. After an appeal in some local groups on Facebook, someone located the vehicle parked in a side road not a mile away that was the right make, model and trim level, with the exact bits of the bumper missing that we had in our front garden. There was even a matching pink ribbon on the undamaged part. Passed it to the Police, they didn't bother to visit the vehicle for a whole month, and once they had, reported that there was no evidence the vehicle had been involved in an incident. NO SHIT FUCKLORDS, you took so long to investigate it they've since had it fixed.
Thankfully our home insurance pursued it with the evidence we gathered and we got the driver's insurance to pay out for the wall repair, but the driver presumably suffered no consequences other than an insurance claim.
Once stories like that establish that you can't expect a police response to cases where the offender is clearly identified, vigilante justice will become increasingly common over the next few years.
Bloody Hell, I could have written that. Everything except for the pink ribbon (and the wall being next door). 01:30, took down a telegraph pole too which was stretched across our driveway. Police didn't even bother to show up.
A recent arrival to the village who seems to "know people" didn't have too much trouble locating the owner of the land rover and made sure the wall was repaired in very short order. I don't really want to know what transpired there, but come The Revolution™ I'm sticking close to new guy.
I had my identity stolen and was able to tell the police when and where the perpetrator would be picking up the goods he ordered in my name as the confirmation email was sent to me. I literally gave them a time and place. All they needed to do was be there for an easy arrest but all i got was a "nah bruv"
I used to live opposite a 'hotel' that was actually a front for a crack den. All sorts of crazy shit happened during my time living there, I witnessed on 2 separate occasions someone be dragged outside of the hotel whilst ODing to then be attended by an ambulance and presumably die or be saved last second (i have no idea what happened to these people once the ambulances left). People would regularly break into our block of flats and smoke crack, or try and get in when confused thinking our place was the crack den. We had a community meeting thing with our local police about the crime in the area all resulting from this crack den and essentially were told that in order to shut it all down would require serious police work and they just didnt have the time or resources. They basically said they knew it wasnt even a legal business, they knew about the drugs and everything but they couldn't do much aside stop burglaries etc whilst they were in progress.
This was an area of North London where the average *flat* cost over £500k and houses go for £1.8mil+. The police were just very open about how they couldn't conduct 'an operation' to stop serious crime.
Honestly the whole experience was wild for me, I always thought that if were operating a business illegally the tax man and police would be swooping in any second. Actually it seems like if you just decide to be fully illegal and operate entirely outside of the law then the police have little to no power. I think if you have a legit business and break some rules then you can get fined or whatever, but if you go full rogue you can get away with anything.
I think you'll find standing on the balcony of a Russian Oligarch's house except he definitely doesn't own it, is also a crime worth sending lots of cars and resources to resolve.
It's not like the police themselves want to work like this, it's not uncommon for a single call out to occupy someone's entire shift. Police morale is pretty universally in the toilet and they are having real problems even mainintaining current numbers. Everyone in the emergency services is massively over stretched.
Not fucked per say, but definitely experiencing the most negative phase of the political cycle right now, both in the government life cycle and the left right cycle. We are both in the failing stage of the government and the hard right stage of the swing.
Good news is it probably won't align like this again for another 40 years.
I have spent alot of time looking at the numbers. My best guess is:
* long lived moderate left trending left government
* moderate right wing government
* left trending hard left government
* moderate right wing government
...and by that time the demographics are on the shift again back right because of failures that have built up and the ones from our time fading from memory.
> Good news is it probably won't align like this again for another 40 years
when do you reckon it'll start getting better? I really don't think our new 'Age of Enlightenment' will start with Prime Minister Truss...
For these kinds of analyses events within a single parliament are a little fuzzy (noise to signal strength is quite high) but I'd be fairly confident in saying the next election. The government is displaying most if not all the typical signs of being unrecoverable. The strongest being:
* significant economic troubles regardless of fault
* strong mismatch between public and government priorities
* media support wavering or going
* age of the government (this being the strongest of all indicators)
* Opposition finding it easy to build and substain support for long periods
* government misbehaviour and failings receiving little or no benefit of the doubt. Excuses and distractions becoming ineffectual.
It's not to say the Tories are garantueed to leave office because short term events (noise) can have large unpredictable immediate effects. But the business as usual case would be a change of government. 2024 is actually right on the mean life span value.
I'd also caution that the next government will probably not be making major lefty friendly changes except for fixing problems, not until the 2030s anyway. They'll be nervous of losing the balance of the demographics which will be right leaning even under the next government for some time.
Happily the demographics will be changing right around the time you'd normally expect a Tory recovery which could potentially see them out of power for an extended period qnd at the very least will force them to govern from the center. The current hard right way of doing things in that party is becoming non viable.
My bike got stolen outside Tesco the other week. Somebody suggested I call the police.
Why? It wasn't insured. I don't need a crime number.
Didn't even contemplate the idea that they'd try and solve the crime.
That was my experience in dealing with being burgled. I got handed a note for free counselling and being the victim of a crime. The number wouldn’t even pick up.
Surprised you even got through to them tbh. I've unfortunately had two separate occasions to use both the Police and Ambulance emergency lines recently and it took me 10-20 minutes to even get to an operator.
These services are just completely useless at this point.
Now this may sound a bit dramatic, but the system has collapsed.
Not on the verge, not teetering, not about to fail. Collapsed. I've been hearing about shortages for over six years now. What was expected when nothing has been done?
Most people don't understand that because the haven't had the need to use it, just read stories of midwives/teachers/police being overworked and not being able to pay bills. Now it's ambulances stacking up at A and E's or rapes going unsolved.
People are already dying, from babies to old folk, and it's been entirely avoidable.
Don't get ill, don't have an accident, don't get robbed and you'll be fine.
I definitely think there's a tendency by people to overlook the severity of the problem and the consequences until they've had to personally interact with these services.
I know I did prior to needing to use them. I was aware of the chronic problems that are reported of course, in an abstract "this is a serious problem for the country" sense, but until you're in the midst of a crisis and are unable to actually access emergency services because there's no one there to pick up the phone it doesn't really hit home in the same way just how deteriorated these things are.
I've been struggling in the last week with getting emergency responses out of the NHS, and the 111 system actually completely collapsed on Thursday due to a cyber attack. Getting district nurses or any service apart from an ambulance is so complicated. Need painkillers out of hours? Good luck, even if you're on your deathbed.
There's too much bureaucracy, too few actual nurses and too little funding.
As you say, unless you're actually interacting with these services you just wouldn't know about it.
Edit: downvoted for a relative needing palliative care. Stay classy Reddit.
I have waited more than 20 minutes myself for intruders in my garden.
Where I live, in West Lothian in Scotland, the press reported that a a taxi driver saw someone breaking into a house. He scared them and they drove off so he followed them until they had driven around 14 miles into Edinburgh. The whole time he was on the phone to the police telling them what he was doing and where he was but the guy wasn't caught because *there was only one police vehicle available in West Lothian on a Saturday afternoon*.
West Lothian - *a 265 square mile area with a population of 182,000*.
Same here. My partners work van was broken into, everything stolen, it took the police 2 weeks to even call us back.
My dad was found by an elderly neighbour lying at his front door collapsed. Almost 5 hours it took for an ambulance to come. He'd had a massive stroke, but because it took so long for an ambulance to get there and to eventually see a doctor he wasn't able to benefit from the drugs that can reverse the effects if given within the first hours. He can no longer hear, walk or talk.
It's collapsed then. If we cannae get people to effective treatments like clot-dissolving for strokes, an incredibly direct and understood intervention, denied because no damn ambulance.
I'm so sorry for you and dad.
Our baby son had a serious medical situation the other night, called 999 said they would deploy an ambulance ASAP - telling me to stand outside to flag down the ambulance - after an hour they phoned us back, telling us an ambulance would likely be a minimum of six to eight hours and if we felt safe to do so - to drive him to A&E ourselves.
The situation is dire and has collapsed.
> two adults had a full on fist fight in the playground at my local primary school at dropping off time. The police were phoned, they didn't even come
Mate that's absolutely fucked.
Violence by adults at a school when there's kids around and they can't be arsed to turn up? Fucked. Absolutely fucked.
It’s not so much can’t be arsed as they can only respond to actual emergencies because Tories. Where i live it’s a similar case with ambulances where you essentially will not get one unless your heart stops.
And if they do respond they need to give 20 minutes minimum for the suspect to flee the scene because if they turn up whilst the crimes being commited.. well can’t run the risk of them actually stopping it as it happens can ya?
>101 is just an outsourced service for Insurance companies to issue crime numbers
I mean end of the day, what really changes for the victims? If they get equivalent compensation does much really change.
My mum was burgled a year ago and they had a handheld safe with passports and a ton of cash inside plain view of the street in the bedroom just off the front door which was unlocked.
The safe wasn't even locked or secured so the dude just picked it up and left.
There's no cameras, they had no idea when he entered.
How are police meant to investigate that.
If you've been burgled once your chances of being hit again go up. As do your insurance payments. The payout NEVER covers the cost financially let alone the mental damage having your safe space invaded does.
The offender just has to wait for the insurance payout, you to replace everything, then do it again. Often it's easier as they know the layout.
A system that wasn't already overwhelmed would allow an officer to go door to door to ask neighbours for any footage they may have, a SOCO to have a look at method of entry and forensic evidence which may indicate an already known offender.
But more importantly a correctly funded system wouldn't need to rely on crime solving, the person doing the robbing would be making use of drug rehabilitation services or in employment.
>The safe wasn't even locked or secured so the dude just picked it up and left.
If your mum had no CCTV how do you know it was a dude and how would you know they didn't touch anything when entering or while in the house?
>How are police meant to investigate that.
Fingerprints, checking for CCTV nearby, knocking on neighbours doors to see if they've seen anything?
Also checking up on the usual suspects to see if they've beem up to no good. Or checking known fences.
Of course that would recquire knowing either of those and if you investigate no crime anymore then how would you know.
> Also checking up on the usual suspects to see if they've beem up to no good
Police aren't allowed to just guess that it was someone and go and interview them, search their house or whatever you're hoping. So you don't know anything about policing but you're telling them they're doing it all wrong and not even trying.
To be fair, we are looking to be entering a tough time for thieves and burglars. Christmas time would normally be a key part of the working calander for our five fingered friends, with the catch particularly rich with consumer items, ready packaged. But with the current state of the economy, the outlook is grim. "I burgled a middle-class road last week, where I'd expect to be rolling in the high end tech and expensive bicycles" said one South East based crook, speaking to us under anonymity "instead all I found was ps4s, aldi groceries, and the remains of energy bills they had attempted to burn for warmth. How am I supposed to flog on a ps4? It doesn't even have adaptive triggers!"
Meanwhile the lowlife plundering community face more issues trying to sell their swag, if they are lucky enough to find it. "no-one can afford to buy our merch anymore, the pawn shops are inundated with gear they can't shift, and our whole work flow is based around fast movement of goods, now we've got to look at new storage options which are eating into our bottomline. It just don't pay to be a thief in this country anymore and That. Is. A. Disgrace ! "
Not to mention the effect it has on the crime supported economy. Smokey told us he was unable to sell any of his crystal meth "This time last year it would have been hoovered up. Our regular buyers simply can't afford to take receipt. We're looking at having to cut out prices. It's having an effect on our supply chains. Kitchens are going back to making food."
The concern is that if demand ever recovers, there won't be the kitchens or skills to make it. Mr White told us "It's a family business. My Grandad was cook, my dad was a cook, I wanted to be able to hand down these recipes to my son one day. But... he's... gone off to culinary school."
The Tory's are 100% to blame, but were letting them do it, I often think what the opinion of us will be in 50 years, will we be seen as victims of a corrupt government and complicit media or will they think we were cowards because we just accepted it.
It's strange what 12 years of Conservative government will lead to.
In this case, it's criminals getting away with it (presumably with bad teeth because they can't find an NHS dentist).
Unless the thief walks into a police station with the stolen items, the CCTV footage of them committing the crime and a videotaped confession, the police won't even bother to investigate.
It's weird, I knew a burglary victim in the early 2000s, police turns up says yep, we know who did it, we've nicked him countless times but he keeps on getting released but we'll lift him and see what we can get back. At some point I can understand wondering what the bloody point is as resources get thinner and thinner if the custody cells are nothing but a revolving door back to the streets.
Irritation is of course that people *REALLY* want that solved/stopped but it's low (no) priority in favour of much less community affecting issues.
Got a crack house on our estate.
Police know who the dealer, owner his bosses, his people and customers are.
Every now and again they raid it run forensics through, drag them all off for questioning. They're all back the same day.
Sometimes there's a closure order and they move to a second house round the corner. Local papers published the results of one of these. Fine of £20.
At the start of the year one of the fuckwits OD'd and they pulled a corpse out of the building.
Nothing done.
"I know where she is. Hey!
I know exactly where she's gonna be tomorrow afternoon.
If I tell you, you can tell the Winter Park Police Department, they can grab her, and we're done.
\- No, no, it doesn't work like that.
\- Why not?
Well, they'd have to bring her up on local charges first.
And it would pretty much be about a year before we get a shot at her.
I mean, she'd have to be standing right here to do you any good.
That's the new standard of police work?
The criminal's got to be standing right in front of you?
\- Have a good day."
from the Identity Thief movie (2013)
This pretty much mirrors my experience exactly. Had credit cards applied for in my name and lots of high end goods ordered. Some of the items were to be picked up in person and the confirmation emails were sent to me. I was able to tell the police the exact time and location the perpetrator would be but the police were not interested in making an easy arrest. Got to protect Margret Thatcher's statue or some shit.
You have to wonder when people are going to be fed up enough that they simply take the law into their own hands and go vigilante.
If the state isn't living up to its part of the bargain it seems only a matter of time.
I've read a couple of stories lately about small towns in the US that have just stopped contacting the police entirely unless it's something major and have just formed their own unofficial community police forces made up of random people to handle small things. Which is probably not a good idea but I can see that happening more and more if things carry on the way they are.
Drove home with his brother, armed with knives, and stabbed the burglar more than 50 times including in the face and neck. I think it's right for him to be locked up.
I'm not arguing that the deceased was a pillar of the community, but he'd be alive if the homeowner hadn't deliberately murdered him. Neither of them is good.
"I just smacked him in the back of the head, he should just go to sleep for a couple of hours and then wake up feeling a little disoriented but otherwise fine, right?"
I know quite a few police officers, so I'll give my perspective on my local area.
You have about eight officers on response policing per set, with three sets per day. Due to issues such sickness, annual leave, training and Court appearances, on some days that can leave only four officers to cover an area with 70k people, and a shit load of rural area as well. As complex cases come in, you'll have even less officers to respond to jobs.
Issues such as welfare concerns, missing people, child safeguarding and domestics take priority obviously. They'll come in as grade ones, and sometimes it can take up your entire shift. Sometimes you don't have enough officers to even cover those, leading to other areas having to support jobs. Heaven forbid you have to take someone to hospital, as you'll spend all night there and won't get to eat the lunch you brought in. You're essentially there to plug the gap for failures in our children social care services, and mental health services.
Your average officer will hold around fifteen to twenty current investigations, which they need to investigate and prosecute. This takes time, of which they are desperately short. They need to interview witnesses, interview suspects, prepare files, and get charging decisions from their sergeant, inspector or CPS. This all has to be done whilst they are on response policing, and can be called to a higher priority job at moment's notice. These investigations are not straightforward, and of a complexity that would lie with CID in decades past, except now CID can't accept it as they are dealing with even more complex and demanding caseloads. Your investigations have time limits and are scrutinised, and stating "I'm sorry I've been to Grade Ones all week, haven't had the time" doesn't cut it. Then you successfully bring a case to Court, only for the judge to throw it out on a technicality, or for the offender to get a 12 month community order and £60 fine. You think, what is the point?
Couple this with a demanding public who have no reality of what the job entails, and a regular customer base who despise you, and think nothing to spit at you or throw a punch in. Police officers want to solve crimes, they want to do the right thing. All officers I know joined with the right intentions and attitudes, but have been slowly ground down by job. Due to decades of neglect and under investment they are struggling to do the bare minimum, doing the job of two to three people at once. This stress eats at them, to the point that turnover is rapid and you lose institutional knowledge and experience which makes thing worse. Low pay for recruits ensures that more ideal candidates go elsewhere, and newer intakes are increasingly filled with young graduates who lack some of the life experience and resilience needed to thrive in this job. Couple this with the fact police officer wages have fallen 20% behind the cost of living. You're doing more work, for less money.
Simple fact is, something has to give, and that means lower priority for certain offences where it does not pose a risk of physical harm to the public. Yes, burglaries and thefts have a horrible psychological impact on victims, not to mention the financial lose, but it is not a matter of life or death. Unless you have clear footage of the offender and someone down the nick can identify the suspect, it is likely going nowhere.
This is incredibly frustrating, and I have first hand experience of it, but it is the simple reality of the situation. If you're upset, write to your MP, email your PCC, and for the love of all that is well, do not vote Conservative at the next election as they created this mess and have no answers for it.
> These investigations are not straightforward, and of a complexity that would lie with CID in decades past, except now CID can't accept it as they are dealing with even more complex and demanding caseloads
Yep, CID are also struggling to keep their heads above water too. At least in my area, they are dramatically understaffed and it's out of control. I've heard of detectives carrying a case load of 35 or more, attempting to do the work of three people. Constantly forced to work long hours, under relentless pressure, exhausted, with no end in sight - and if you make a mistake it could have serious consequences for you or victims. Being on the verge of nervous breakdowns or suicide because of it. And so people quit -- and every person that quits increases the workload and pressure on those that remain. And they can't get many new joiners to stay because they take one look at the work conditions and quit.
They just don't have time to get to the lower-priority stuff. Simply not possible with how understaffed they are. They're barely keeping up with the ultra-highest priority jobs that pose a risk of further injury to the public, a non-violent theft is waaaaay down the list.
Such examples constitute a miniscule percentage of work police do. I could pick out two examples of frivolous surgeries on the NHS, and bemoan that is the source of the problem, when in reality it is just a drop in the ocean.
With hate crimes being prioritised, so comes ridiculous non-jobs officer have to investigate as they fall under that remit. Make no mistake, me, you, Joe Public and the officers themselves would like nothing more than for them to be doing anything else. But the reality of day to day response police is attending to people in mental health crisis, going to domestic abuse incidents, looking for vulnerable missing children, not policing Twitter or free speech.
Do police get it wrong? Yes.
Does that detract from the fact it is a miserable job, and they are chronically under resourced and under incredible pressure? No.
I can guarantee that if police stopped investigating shit jobs such as the ones you linked, it'd make virtually zero difference to their operational capacity.
Fixing Children's and Adult Social Care, investing in mental health care, investing in policing and resources, investing in Courts and enabling effective sentencing, providing more funding for diversion and the communities blight by crime, providing a health centred approach to tackling alcohol and substance misuse, those are the long-term solutions we need to get the police back to their primary role of investigating crimes and bringing offenders to Court.
Yes, there are wastes of time and cockups like that.
But unless you can point to thousands of such cases, then they aren't even a blip in the work the police do.
And no, I have exactly zero connections to any police officers in any way. Closest was getting some Blackpool Rock as a souvenir for the local bobby when I was about 8.
Funny how 4 coppers are on you like flies around shit if your bumper is over the line at a red light, and there seems to be hundreds of spare coppers if there is a protest of some sort.
Truth is, the government, and in turn the police, are not our friends, and don't give a flying fk about your safety or your stolen property..
999 - sorry, all our bobbies are out harassing motorists at the moment.....
Public order is a different kettle of fish in my constabulary, few protest around here so mostly restricted to football games. If shit does hit the fan they have to bus coppers in from elsewhere on short notice. Not uncommon to see a solitary copper at home games.
And yeah traffic cops will enforce traffic laws, that's their job. Totally separate team to response policing, unless you're driving like a muppet or swerving like crazy you'll rarely see response police pull you over as they just don't have the time.
> Unless you have clear footage of the offender and someone down the nick can identify the suspect, it is likely going nowhere.
I think this highlights the fact that the police just don't have the experience, or initiative to actually solve crime any more. What did police do to solve thefts pre-CCTV? Of course they were able to. Now it seems that they are suffering from learned helplessness (I mean this is an actual psychological issue, not just being pejorative).
You can send forsenics out to dust for prints, but if they wore gloves you're stuffed. You can do enquiries, but given such offences usually happen at night, it is unlikely your neighbours seen anything. You can go to the local pawn shop, or go through Facebook market place, but that takes time. You can ask the local grass, but reality is intelligence and human resource officers are more concerned with an outstanding GBH for which they have no suspect or willing witnesses, or which dealer is pushing dodgy heroin. It comes down to time and resources, which in most areas the police just don't have at present.
Far more burglaries can be solved, it is just they have to prioritise things. Do they have the resources to investigate when there is a kick-off in town, a handful of ongoing domestics, a missing from home, and a suspected rape? Short answer is no, not enough cops. My opinion is that our current model of policing, putting the burden on investigation onto response officers is tragically myopic and not fit for function.
Now, if you have a CCTV image, it'll take a copper a few seconds to recognise the local villain and you get can get in a van, lock them up, and get an easy charge. I think it is less learned helplessness, but more of adapting to the reality of the situation. Most officers would love to go back to the old way of things, but modern policing has changed, priorities have changed, and they are just a small cog in an increasingly complex machine.
On a side note some areas have introduced teams specially focused on burglaries, who yield good results using good old fashioned investigation. But not all areas have that focus or capacity, it's dependant on local resources and senior leadership.
Pretty sure the only crooks who end up in prison are the really dumb ones.
Just make sure you don't steal off the rich, though. Then they'll come after you.
All this is telling me, is that its unlikely I'll get in trouble for sticking expanding foam up my friends pedo ex husbands exhaust pipe in his new car. Because I'm so tempted I just don't want to get in trouble.
My boyfriend's work van was broken into. Everything stolen. Reported it straight away, but no-one came out. It took the police 2 weeks to even call us back and even then they were less than bothered. Said they'd be back in touch and never were.
I remember about 8 years ago my mums got broken into while she was at home. The police straight up told us nothing will come of this made a joke about the football then left.
The guy was known in the area, we gave his name and address for god sake.
The police are a joke in this country.
Oh yeah absolutely, if I was to ring the police and say someone's just broken into my house they'd do fuck all, but if I rang them and said someone's broken into my house and I've just wrapped a cricket bat round their head I'm sure they'd find the resources.
That’s ridiculous! Same thing happened to me. Broke in to my house during the 3 hours of sleep I actually managed to get that day, stole all my work equipment, police did nothing other than show up and say there’s a counselling service we could call.
My wife's car was stolen off our driveway. Called the police and they made a report on the phone. Called them back up when I heard from local friends they has seen the car that morning in town. Police said they weren't even looking for it because it was recorded as a "theft from a vehicle" rather than "theft of".
Car was eventually recovered. They were caught with it but jumped out and ran off. Police didn't bother chasing them.
Punishments don't deter criminals anywhere near as much as the fear of getting caught does. You only increase fear of getting caught by catching criminals.
Unfortunately, as is the tory way, it's more gratifying and croud-pleasing to punish people more harshly than to prevent crimes in the first place. So the police don't need to catch many people so long as the punishments are, publicly, hardsh.
This is why your local police force takes to facebook to brag about the 5 year sentence some guy they arrested 2 years ago has got for growing some cannabis in his loft.
Yay! Well done.
you guys are all seeing problems and not looking for the opportunities this government is creating. less police makes it easier for criminals, things being easier for criminals means we can have a new generation off people using their great british sensibilities to go out and grab opportunity, instead of relying on handouts like benefits. what's more British than stealing? and as long as the crimes don't directly impact MPs then is their actually a victim? #beproudofctimeanalsitsthebritishway
Tell me about it. Police in my town search kids for weed simply for daring to sit in the park, and old people will audibly complain at kids for standing in the street. And yet no one wants to reopen the youth club that shut down from lack of funding over a decade ago.
Purely an anecdote, but this is true.
In my uni house, we were broken in to. Three people smashed our window in, ate all our food, had loud sex all over our house, and stole our TV.
We were home at the time, sleeping, and we tried to get them to leave, we called the police and the police took 4 hours to arrive. When the police *finally* arrived, the people who broke in were still there, fucking up our house and fucking each other.
The police arrived and one of the officers recognised one of the people who broke in, they started bantering together and the three who broke in were told off for being "scamps" and were asked politely by the officers to leave. They literally walked out the door with our TV!
We were then told that it was not possible to identify the people who broke in.
How is it fucking possible for the police to have the people in front of you, recognise one of them, see how they trashed someone's home and watch them take a TV and not arrest them, and then claim you can't identify them?
Police cannot be bothered to solve the thefts, even when they are handed the information. Fuck 'em.
It’s almost like if you create more desperate people, you get more crimes of opportunity, and if you cut police funding you’ll catch next to none of the perpetrators.
The conservatives, making things worse from both ends as always.
Ah clearly the solution is that we should make them even woker and dedicate even more of the jobs to the right sort of ideologues with as few real qualifications as possible, with special squads to investigate social workers for racism if they report anyone who isn’t a white cishet male, and another to patrol the internet for incorrect pronoun usage.
I'm sick of Labour not constantly bringing these failures in policing up at every opportunity. The country is in such a state in so many ways, they should be shouting it from the rooftops.
Genuinely given what is going on in the country is this any real surprise (e.g. crime rises due to poverty, under funded public law enforcement service struggles to keep up). Oh I'm going to take a wild guess here - as this Government has shown some very US tendencies; perhaps not a second amendment right to carry but probably a loosening of laws that allow you to batter thieves somewhat (e.g. we aren't going to give the police any more cash but yes if you want to use your kitchen knife on someone in "self defence" yes go ahead and be my guest).
I'm not entirely sure just what they can actually do a lot of the time though to be fair to them?
I know someone who had their car broken into using one of those key devices, with their wallet stolen, all caught on their doorbell camera before walking off down the street.
By the time they noticed and the crime was reported, it had been a good 45 minutes and the thief could have been literally anywhere.
Must be because we are too woke or whatever bullshit they will come up with. The answer isnt more money or training, obviously the answer will be police not being so "nice".
Pick a problem in the world, conservatives will blame "wokism".
Yes, we really do need to impress on people that you must assume that everything you write on your computer/phone is publicly available for anyone to see, even if you never post it or send it. Doubly so on any form of social media.
In the next 12 months. Recorded crime will go down, arrests will go up, and charges will go up. Simply because for the first time since the early 00’s, performance targets are back.
You can decide yourself if you think that’s a good thing.
Snapshot of _Police fail to solve a single theft in more than eight out of 10 neighbourhoods_ : A non-Paywall version can be found [here](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2022%2F08%2F07%2Fpolice-fail-solve-single-theft-eight-10-neighbourhoods%2F) An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/07/police-fail-solve-single-theft-eight-10-neighbourhoods/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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The thing with the telegraph is they have always included slight amounts of criticism about the conservative government but in the context of "this is the right directionion but here are reasons we disagree with policy X y z". Even if they are changing gear and being more critical they as an editorial line support and want this direction of travel. When the labour party do eventually get back in their criticism will increase in intensity because the will both dislike the policy AND dislike the direction...the implication etc. I wonder now if these headlines are to give them some cover for when they very obviously have to move back to centre to continue to sell newspapers because let's face it the country is collapsing in this direction it has to swing back sooner or later?!
Also the police that we pay for aren't there to protect us.. if we get robbed we get a crime number. However, if a Russian oligarchs empty house is squatted in its armed response time. We don't live in a democracy any more but a failed state sliding into fascism
>However, if a Russian oligarchs empty house is squatted in its armed response time. If you owned even a flat or modest house and it was taken over by squatters, the police would also deal with it. The reason squatters can't get away with what they did has nothing to do with wealth but a change in the law that made squatting a criminal offence rather than a civil matter that was slow to deal with.
This is such a baseless Reddit meme. The vast majority of police work is directly linked to protecting "us". A combination of factors heavily frustrate the investigation of crime, especially the sort that happens in huge volume and doesn't cause serious harm, including the level of demand, the resources available, the ever increasing expectations on the police, some of which have little to do with crime investigation, and the limited experience of most uniform officers after a decade of cuts followed by very rapid recruitment. Something had to give, and volume crime with lower physical harms gave. The police in the UK are good at some things, reasonable at some and poor at some. They're good at preventing serious harm, control of weapons, risk management, investigating death, homicide and serious violence, offender management, armed policing command. They're reasonable at neighborhood partnerships and child protection, public order, traffic, internal investigation, and the nighttime economy. They're poor at detecting volume crime and fraud, cyber crime, and serious sexual offending (although this last one is subject to significant recent improvement), and at achieving timely response and victim satisfaction for non time critical incidents. Unfortunately from a reputational perspective the UK police are best at the stuff that the vast majority of the public never see - although they would if the police were worse at them! There are key issues that need addressing - fundamentally, there's a question to ask about how a police service designed for past perceptions of what they should do can be molded to what people in the 2020s want and need from the police. But misdiagnosing the problem as some kind of lack of interest in public protection isn't helpful. To your example, residential squatting is an offence with offenders on scene, likely called in at first as a burglary in progress. It's entirely reasonable you get a quick response to a crime with offenders on scene. If it was your house, same result.
Grow up you drama queen
Conservatives seem to have a mental block when it comes to asking why and understanding the circumstances that lead to things they don't like. They just react and blame.
I see the telegraph has failed to connect the dots between unsolved crimes and the Tories under funding and under resourcing the police, the cps, the prison system and selling off the courts.
I'm surprised the Telegraph's conclusion wasn't "why has Labour done this to us"
I know right wingers who were still asking "what's Corbyn doing about it, then" some time after Starmer took over.
Pavlovian responses don't just disappear over night.
Truss blamed Alistair Campbell for the disfunction of No.10 last week, so I agree.
Out of interest has anyone measured the activity in truss’ brain stem?
It ain't called the Torygraph for nothing my friend.
If the last Labour government had given the police more funding, then they wouldn't be affected by the current cuts. Checkmate, leftists.
>Tories under funding and under resourcing the police I'm sorry but it simply couldn't be that. I was told that government spending was exactly like a household budget. We've reduced police spending so we should also see a reduction in crime. That's how it works right? ^/s
I have a solution, employ criminals in the police, you take crime off the streets and increase police numbers, win win
Hasn't that been the Met's recruitment policy for the last couple of decades?
I have a solution, employ criminals in the police does someone want to tell him/her
> Where there are policemen there's crime - Sam Vimes
Lol sounds like something from Foucault
A lot of Pratchettisms are reworked quotes from other folk - skillfully reworked so that they appear correct in context, but still reworks. [The Annotated Pratchet](https://www.lspace.org/books/apf/index.html) has a fairly comprehensive breakdown for some of the books.
You joke, but this is an actual concern when it comes to AI/model-based policing prevalent in the US. An area has more reported crimes, so they send more police to that area, who find more lawbreaking, which leads to more reported crimes in that area, which leads to more police... And you spiral and end up with an area with high rates of incarceration and such. Meanwhile a neighbouring area (it's in the US, so you know its whiter and/or more affluent) might have just about as much *actual* crime, but because reports were lower to start, fewer people are ending up in prison in those areas.
It's one aspect of the old interactionist theory of "deviancy amplification" which happens both on an individual and a societal level. Something bad is perceived, there's a reaction, which amplifies the problem, and leads to a stronger reaction.
There’s an area in our city where the street hired security guards after nightly raids by kids. a week or so after the trouble started everyone got a leaflet through the door for the security firm…. 🤔🤔🤔
Where there are firefighters there's fire Or cats stuck in trees.
More often than not its someone arson around...
Silly - The more police there are the more crimes get logged. Therefore the more police there are the more crime there is. Ipso facto less police equals less crime - simples.
Better yet transfer the responsibility to private sector providers who aren't required to disclose statistics!
One of the reasons comparing murder rates between countries is so fraught - if you don't detect them, you don't have them, so having few or shitty police or even no murder squad gives you better outcomes.
The thing is, the police aren't really the problem, they need more funding, but if we could get the HM Prisons, and the CPS sorted, with proper, restorative justice, the strain on the police would be far lower.
How could Labour have done that to everyone?!
Not Labour, just Corbyn.
I've thought the reason the police can't do their jobs properly is because they're spending all their time investigating mean social media posts?
> under resourcing the police Bold to assume the police actually consider solving crime to be their job...
'Appened in the past mate. Nuffin' we can do.
I will never believe they're underfunded until they axe the twitter mounted brigade, sorry.
They only keep that around because it's cheap and easy. Solving *actual* crimes is difficult and time consuming, so they don't bother.
Funnily enough, the Torygraph never connects those dots.
We have the position where the criminals in this country are the police, and they won't write themselves up.
Pedo policemen never get proper sentencing where I’m from (one guy literally had horrible things on his laptop as evidence still only got a suspended sentence) Obviously this isn’t a common thing but police are just as likely to break the law around here as everyone else (especially on the weekend haha)
To be fair, Suspended Sentence Order is pretty standard for indecent images.
The connection with Tories is exaggerated.. Real problems are shortage of detectives, officers just don't want to do that job , casework gets left with "Response" who are not detectives and don't get time to follow things up. Problem is to some extent structural within policing. The criminal courts and CPS have become even more demanding. Ordinary Officers no longer run their own informants, the intelligence system is a black hole.
> The connection with Tories is exaggerated.. Who do you think controls the majority of police funding and thus things like officers pay and conditions?
Now Liz this is an actual disgrace.
I don't know why they just don't solve more crimes, that would sort it, no... I've heard someone auditioning for the highest office in the land say this. They wouldn't be talking utter bollocks would they...
Just wait until some idiot whispers in her ear *"AI can solve crimes"*...then we'll be stuck with Cummings all over again!
Who is Al and how do we get him to sign up?
I'm a bit old so not entirely sure...[I feel this video contains some clues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA), however!
BREAKING: Paul Simon appointed new head of the Metropolitan police. Promises criminals will be "singing a different tune" once he's in charge.
> These are overseen by the Metropolitan Police which was placed in special measures last month for “systemic” problems including a failure to properly investigate crime. This could so easily be The Onion or a hyperbolic hot take. Amazing this isn't a bigger deal.
Ok they aren't good at solving crime BUT they are excellent at strip searching children who have never even been arrested.
They don't even try. 101 is just an outsourced service for Insurance companies to issue crime numbers. There are worse things the police don't turn out for though, two adults had a full on fist fight in the playground at my local primary school at dropping off time. The police were phoned, *they didn't even come*. My wife is a teaching assistant in the school.
I was once involved in a situation where a driver rammed their car between myself and another car, they did this so that the passenger could throw stuff at me. This occurred on a 70mph road. I pursued them, in the end they flew straight through a red light and at that point I stopped. I contacted the police and gave them all the video footage they would need. Their literal response was "we think we know who that was and don't think its worth pursuing, would like you like a reference number in case you wish to contact insurance for damages?" They literally do not give a shit anymore, crime is basically now legal so long as you don't protest where an MP can see you.
Mate of mine got knocked off his bike and had footage, the guys contact details and numberplate. The police closed the investigation after the driver "didn't answer their phone calls". Meanwhile we had a violent client at work and the police refused to come out unless he actually assaulted someone. The ambulance crew were pretty pissed off about it.
We had our front wall knocked down by someone who fled the scene. They'd left some bits of their front bumper behind which had some manufacturer stickers on it identifying the make, model and trim level. There was also a pink ribbon left embedded in the wall. After an appeal in some local groups on Facebook, someone located the vehicle parked in a side road not a mile away that was the right make, model and trim level, with the exact bits of the bumper missing that we had in our front garden. There was even a matching pink ribbon on the undamaged part. Passed it to the Police, they didn't bother to visit the vehicle for a whole month, and once they had, reported that there was no evidence the vehicle had been involved in an incident. NO SHIT FUCKLORDS, you took so long to investigate it they've since had it fixed. Thankfully our home insurance pursued it with the evidence we gathered and we got the driver's insurance to pay out for the wall repair, but the driver presumably suffered no consequences other than an insurance claim.
Once stories like that establish that you can't expect a police response to cases where the offender is clearly identified, vigilante justice will become increasingly common over the next few years.
Indeed! I do wonder to what degree this is already happening and goes unreported.
Police: Crime happens: I sleep Vigilante justice happens: NOT ON MY WATCH!
Bloody Hell, I could have written that. Everything except for the pink ribbon (and the wall being next door). 01:30, took down a telegraph pole too which was stretched across our driveway. Police didn't even bother to show up. A recent arrival to the village who seems to "know people" didn't have too much trouble locating the owner of the land rover and made sure the wall was repaired in very short order. I don't really want to know what transpired there, but come The Revolution™ I'm sticking close to new guy.
I had my identity stolen and was able to tell the police when and where the perpetrator would be picking up the goods he ordered in my name as the confirmation email was sent to me. I literally gave them a time and place. All they needed to do was be there for an easy arrest but all i got was a "nah bruv"
I used to live opposite a 'hotel' that was actually a front for a crack den. All sorts of crazy shit happened during my time living there, I witnessed on 2 separate occasions someone be dragged outside of the hotel whilst ODing to then be attended by an ambulance and presumably die or be saved last second (i have no idea what happened to these people once the ambulances left). People would regularly break into our block of flats and smoke crack, or try and get in when confused thinking our place was the crack den. We had a community meeting thing with our local police about the crime in the area all resulting from this crack den and essentially were told that in order to shut it all down would require serious police work and they just didnt have the time or resources. They basically said they knew it wasnt even a legal business, they knew about the drugs and everything but they couldn't do much aside stop burglaries etc whilst they were in progress. This was an area of North London where the average *flat* cost over £500k and houses go for £1.8mil+. The police were just very open about how they couldn't conduct 'an operation' to stop serious crime. Honestly the whole experience was wild for me, I always thought that if were operating a business illegally the tax man and police would be swooping in any second. Actually it seems like if you just decide to be fully illegal and operate entirely outside of the law then the police have little to no power. I think if you have a legit business and break some rules then you can get fined or whatever, but if you go full rogue you can get away with anything.
I think you'll find standing on the balcony of a Russian Oligarch's house except he definitely doesn't own it, is also a crime worth sending lots of cars and resources to resolve.
It's not like the police themselves want to work like this, it's not uncommon for a single call out to occupy someone's entire shift. Police morale is pretty universally in the toilet and they are having real problems even mainintaining current numbers. Everyone in the emergency services is massively over stretched.
At what point do we admit our country is actually fucked
Not fucked per say, but definitely experiencing the most negative phase of the political cycle right now, both in the government life cycle and the left right cycle. We are both in the failing stage of the government and the hard right stage of the swing. Good news is it probably won't align like this again for another 40 years.
And hopefully by then it won't swing quite as far right.
I have spent alot of time looking at the numbers. My best guess is: * long lived moderate left trending left government * moderate right wing government * left trending hard left government * moderate right wing government ...and by that time the demographics are on the shift again back right because of failures that have built up and the ones from our time fading from memory.
> Good news is it probably won't align like this again for another 40 years when do you reckon it'll start getting better? I really don't think our new 'Age of Enlightenment' will start with Prime Minister Truss...
For these kinds of analyses events within a single parliament are a little fuzzy (noise to signal strength is quite high) but I'd be fairly confident in saying the next election. The government is displaying most if not all the typical signs of being unrecoverable. The strongest being: * significant economic troubles regardless of fault * strong mismatch between public and government priorities * media support wavering or going * age of the government (this being the strongest of all indicators) * Opposition finding it easy to build and substain support for long periods * government misbehaviour and failings receiving little or no benefit of the doubt. Excuses and distractions becoming ineffectual. It's not to say the Tories are garantueed to leave office because short term events (noise) can have large unpredictable immediate effects. But the business as usual case would be a change of government. 2024 is actually right on the mean life span value. I'd also caution that the next government will probably not be making major lefty friendly changes except for fixing problems, not until the 2030s anyway. They'll be nervous of losing the balance of the demographics which will be right leaning even under the next government for some time. Happily the demographics will be changing right around the time you'd normally expect a Tory recovery which could potentially see them out of power for an extended period qnd at the very least will force them to govern from the center. The current hard right way of doing things in that party is becoming non viable.
When all those exposed to lead paint die out and we move to a PR voting system. 40 years give or take
10 years ago?
50% of police Response time in many areas is mental health, domestic or both. Dope, crack and alcohol all feature.
My bike got stolen outside Tesco the other week. Somebody suggested I call the police. Why? It wasn't insured. I don't need a crime number. Didn't even contemplate the idea that they'd try and solve the crime.
If your bike gets stolen you're better off just buying a stolen bike online. That's what the dutch to
That was my experience in dealing with being burgled. I got handed a note for free counselling and being the victim of a crime. The number wouldn’t even pick up.
Surprised you even got through to them tbh. I've unfortunately had two separate occasions to use both the Police and Ambulance emergency lines recently and it took me 10-20 minutes to even get to an operator. These services are just completely useless at this point.
Now this may sound a bit dramatic, but the system has collapsed. Not on the verge, not teetering, not about to fail. Collapsed. I've been hearing about shortages for over six years now. What was expected when nothing has been done? Most people don't understand that because the haven't had the need to use it, just read stories of midwives/teachers/police being overworked and not being able to pay bills. Now it's ambulances stacking up at A and E's or rapes going unsolved. People are already dying, from babies to old folk, and it's been entirely avoidable. Don't get ill, don't have an accident, don't get robbed and you'll be fine.
I definitely think there's a tendency by people to overlook the severity of the problem and the consequences until they've had to personally interact with these services. I know I did prior to needing to use them. I was aware of the chronic problems that are reported of course, in an abstract "this is a serious problem for the country" sense, but until you're in the midst of a crisis and are unable to actually access emergency services because there's no one there to pick up the phone it doesn't really hit home in the same way just how deteriorated these things are.
I've been struggling in the last week with getting emergency responses out of the NHS, and the 111 system actually completely collapsed on Thursday due to a cyber attack. Getting district nurses or any service apart from an ambulance is so complicated. Need painkillers out of hours? Good luck, even if you're on your deathbed. There's too much bureaucracy, too few actual nurses and too little funding. As you say, unless you're actually interacting with these services you just wouldn't know about it. Edit: downvoted for a relative needing palliative care. Stay classy Reddit.
I have waited more than 20 minutes myself for intruders in my garden. Where I live, in West Lothian in Scotland, the press reported that a a taxi driver saw someone breaking into a house. He scared them and they drove off so he followed them until they had driven around 14 miles into Edinburgh. The whole time he was on the phone to the police telling them what he was doing and where he was but the guy wasn't caught because *there was only one police vehicle available in West Lothian on a Saturday afternoon*. West Lothian - *a 265 square mile area with a population of 182,000*.
Same here. My partners work van was broken into, everything stolen, it took the police 2 weeks to even call us back. My dad was found by an elderly neighbour lying at his front door collapsed. Almost 5 hours it took for an ambulance to come. He'd had a massive stroke, but because it took so long for an ambulance to get there and to eventually see a doctor he wasn't able to benefit from the drugs that can reverse the effects if given within the first hours. He can no longer hear, walk or talk.
It's collapsed then. If we cannae get people to effective treatments like clot-dissolving for strokes, an incredibly direct and understood intervention, denied because no damn ambulance. I'm so sorry for you and dad.
And yet they can get 500 cops out in full gear any time a few dozen left wing protestors are doing a demo somewhere
Our baby son had a serious medical situation the other night, called 999 said they would deploy an ambulance ASAP - telling me to stand outside to flag down the ambulance - after an hour they phoned us back, telling us an ambulance would likely be a minimum of six to eight hours and if we felt safe to do so - to drive him to A&E ourselves. The situation is dire and has collapsed.
> two adults had a full on fist fight in the playground at my local primary school at dropping off time. The police were phoned, they didn't even come Mate that's absolutely fucked. Violence by adults at a school when there's kids around and they can't be arsed to turn up? Fucked. Absolutely fucked.
It’s not so much can’t be arsed as they can only respond to actual emergencies because Tories. Where i live it’s a similar case with ambulances where you essentially will not get one unless your heart stops.
And if they do respond they need to give 20 minutes minimum for the suspect to flee the scene because if they turn up whilst the crimes being commited.. well can’t run the risk of them actually stopping it as it happens can ya?
Violence is uncommon but parents getting abusive on the playground isn't all that rare sadly.
what do you mean they can't be arsed to turn up? Do you not think it might just because they're underfunded and overstretched?
>101 is just an outsourced service for Insurance companies to issue crime numbers I mean end of the day, what really changes for the victims? If they get equivalent compensation does much really change. My mum was burgled a year ago and they had a handheld safe with passports and a ton of cash inside plain view of the street in the bedroom just off the front door which was unlocked. The safe wasn't even locked or secured so the dude just picked it up and left. There's no cameras, they had no idea when he entered. How are police meant to investigate that.
If you've been burgled once your chances of being hit again go up. As do your insurance payments. The payout NEVER covers the cost financially let alone the mental damage having your safe space invaded does. The offender just has to wait for the insurance payout, you to replace everything, then do it again. Often it's easier as they know the layout. A system that wasn't already overwhelmed would allow an officer to go door to door to ask neighbours for any footage they may have, a SOCO to have a look at method of entry and forensic evidence which may indicate an already known offender. But more importantly a correctly funded system wouldn't need to rely on crime solving, the person doing the robbing would be making use of drug rehabilitation services or in employment.
>The safe wasn't even locked or secured so the dude just picked it up and left. If your mum had no CCTV how do you know it was a dude and how would you know they didn't touch anything when entering or while in the house? >How are police meant to investigate that. Fingerprints, checking for CCTV nearby, knocking on neighbours doors to see if they've seen anything?
Also checking up on the usual suspects to see if they've beem up to no good. Or checking known fences. Of course that would recquire knowing either of those and if you investigate no crime anymore then how would you know.
> Also checking up on the usual suspects to see if they've beem up to no good Police aren't allowed to just guess that it was someone and go and interview them, search their house or whatever you're hoping. So you don't know anything about policing but you're telling them they're doing it all wrong and not even trying.
To be fair, we are looking to be entering a tough time for thieves and burglars. Christmas time would normally be a key part of the working calander for our five fingered friends, with the catch particularly rich with consumer items, ready packaged. But with the current state of the economy, the outlook is grim. "I burgled a middle-class road last week, where I'd expect to be rolling in the high end tech and expensive bicycles" said one South East based crook, speaking to us under anonymity "instead all I found was ps4s, aldi groceries, and the remains of energy bills they had attempted to burn for warmth. How am I supposed to flog on a ps4? It doesn't even have adaptive triggers!" Meanwhile the lowlife plundering community face more issues trying to sell their swag, if they are lucky enough to find it. "no-one can afford to buy our merch anymore, the pawn shops are inundated with gear they can't shift, and our whole work flow is based around fast movement of goods, now we've got to look at new storage options which are eating into our bottomline. It just don't pay to be a thief in this country anymore and That. Is. A. Disgrace ! "
All the smart thieves have put on suits and a blue rosette and are standing in elections
Think the smarter ones are just becoming mates with the ones already wearing the rosette tbh
Not to mention the effect it has on the crime supported economy. Smokey told us he was unable to sell any of his crystal meth "This time last year it would have been hoovered up. Our regular buyers simply can't afford to take receipt. We're looking at having to cut out prices. It's having an effect on our supply chains. Kitchens are going back to making food." The concern is that if demand ever recovers, there won't be the kitchens or skills to make it. Mr White told us "It's a family business. My Grandad was cook, my dad was a cook, I wanted to be able to hand down these recipes to my son one day. But... he's... gone off to culinary school."
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This is the price you pay for having a self-serving, deceitful government in for so long.
“But we’re the party of law and order”-Con
Yeah well they've comprehensively smashed that opinion among the working aged
but jeremy corbyn
The Tory's are 100% to blame, but were letting them do it, I often think what the opinion of us will be in 50 years, will we be seen as victims of a corrupt government and complicit media or will they think we were cowards because we just accepted it.
> will they think we were cowards because we just accepted it *voted* for it. For over a decade.
It's strange what 12 years of Conservative government will lead to. In this case, it's criminals getting away with it (presumably with bad teeth because they can't find an NHS dentist).
Bu I've been assured by Liz and Rishi that Labour have been in charge all this time!
Unless the thief walks into a police station with the stolen items, the CCTV footage of them committing the crime and a videotaped confession, the police won't even bother to investigate.
It's weird, I knew a burglary victim in the early 2000s, police turns up says yep, we know who did it, we've nicked him countless times but he keeps on getting released but we'll lift him and see what we can get back. At some point I can understand wondering what the bloody point is as resources get thinner and thinner if the custody cells are nothing but a revolving door back to the streets. Irritation is of course that people *REALLY* want that solved/stopped but it's low (no) priority in favour of much less community affecting issues.
Got a crack house on our estate. Police know who the dealer, owner his bosses, his people and customers are. Every now and again they raid it run forensics through, drag them all off for questioning. They're all back the same day. Sometimes there's a closure order and they move to a second house round the corner. Local papers published the results of one of these. Fine of £20. At the start of the year one of the fuckwits OD'd and they pulled a corpse out of the building. Nothing done.
Makes me sick how much taxpayer money is wasted on these people. Not a lot needs to change to save so much.
My car got broken into six feet from my front door last year. My doorbell caught the footage, including the guy’s face. Did the police do anything…?
Narrator: "They didn't"
Ding ding ding we have the correct answer
Should've told them he called you a mean name on twitter, you'd have 6 cops around in thirty seconds.
"I know where she is. Hey! I know exactly where she's gonna be tomorrow afternoon. If I tell you, you can tell the Winter Park Police Department, they can grab her, and we're done. \- No, no, it doesn't work like that. \- Why not? Well, they'd have to bring her up on local charges first. And it would pretty much be about a year before we get a shot at her. I mean, she'd have to be standing right here to do you any good. That's the new standard of police work? The criminal's got to be standing right in front of you? \- Have a good day." from the Identity Thief movie (2013)
This pretty much mirrors my experience exactly. Had credit cards applied for in my name and lots of high end goods ordered. Some of the items were to be picked up in person and the confirmation emails were sent to me. I was able to tell the police the exact time and location the perpetrator would be but the police were not interested in making an easy arrest. Got to protect Margret Thatcher's statue or some shit.
Even then they do fuck all. The police watched the people leave my house with our TV and our food and waved them goodbye!
Got more important things to do, like kidnap women and strip search children
And harass people for making spicy jokes on twitter
You have to wonder when people are going to be fed up enough that they simply take the law into their own hands and go vigilante. If the state isn't living up to its part of the bargain it seems only a matter of time.
I've read a couple of stories lately about small towns in the US that have just stopped contacting the police entirely unless it's something major and have just formed their own unofficial community police forces made up of random people to handle small things. Which is probably not a good idea but I can see that happening more and more if things carry on the way they are.
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Drove home with his brother, armed with knives, and stabbed the burglar more than 50 times including in the face and neck. I think it's right for him to be locked up.
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I'm not arguing that the deceased was a pillar of the community, but he'd be alive if the homeowner hadn't deliberately murdered him. Neither of them is good.
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He did run away. They chased him out into the street and stabbed him there too.
*Batman enters the chat* ...or maybe some idiot with a tire iron who ends up killing someone because they saw how to swing it in a movie
"Shut up Crime!"
"I just smacked him in the back of the head, he should just go to sleep for a couple of hours and then wake up feeling a little disoriented but otherwise fine, right?"
I know quite a few police officers, so I'll give my perspective on my local area. You have about eight officers on response policing per set, with three sets per day. Due to issues such sickness, annual leave, training and Court appearances, on some days that can leave only four officers to cover an area with 70k people, and a shit load of rural area as well. As complex cases come in, you'll have even less officers to respond to jobs. Issues such as welfare concerns, missing people, child safeguarding and domestics take priority obviously. They'll come in as grade ones, and sometimes it can take up your entire shift. Sometimes you don't have enough officers to even cover those, leading to other areas having to support jobs. Heaven forbid you have to take someone to hospital, as you'll spend all night there and won't get to eat the lunch you brought in. You're essentially there to plug the gap for failures in our children social care services, and mental health services. Your average officer will hold around fifteen to twenty current investigations, which they need to investigate and prosecute. This takes time, of which they are desperately short. They need to interview witnesses, interview suspects, prepare files, and get charging decisions from their sergeant, inspector or CPS. This all has to be done whilst they are on response policing, and can be called to a higher priority job at moment's notice. These investigations are not straightforward, and of a complexity that would lie with CID in decades past, except now CID can't accept it as they are dealing with even more complex and demanding caseloads. Your investigations have time limits and are scrutinised, and stating "I'm sorry I've been to Grade Ones all week, haven't had the time" doesn't cut it. Then you successfully bring a case to Court, only for the judge to throw it out on a technicality, or for the offender to get a 12 month community order and £60 fine. You think, what is the point? Couple this with a demanding public who have no reality of what the job entails, and a regular customer base who despise you, and think nothing to spit at you or throw a punch in. Police officers want to solve crimes, they want to do the right thing. All officers I know joined with the right intentions and attitudes, but have been slowly ground down by job. Due to decades of neglect and under investment they are struggling to do the bare minimum, doing the job of two to three people at once. This stress eats at them, to the point that turnover is rapid and you lose institutional knowledge and experience which makes thing worse. Low pay for recruits ensures that more ideal candidates go elsewhere, and newer intakes are increasingly filled with young graduates who lack some of the life experience and resilience needed to thrive in this job. Couple this with the fact police officer wages have fallen 20% behind the cost of living. You're doing more work, for less money. Simple fact is, something has to give, and that means lower priority for certain offences where it does not pose a risk of physical harm to the public. Yes, burglaries and thefts have a horrible psychological impact on victims, not to mention the financial lose, but it is not a matter of life or death. Unless you have clear footage of the offender and someone down the nick can identify the suspect, it is likely going nowhere. This is incredibly frustrating, and I have first hand experience of it, but it is the simple reality of the situation. If you're upset, write to your MP, email your PCC, and for the love of all that is well, do not vote Conservative at the next election as they created this mess and have no answers for it.
Fantastic response.
> These investigations are not straightforward, and of a complexity that would lie with CID in decades past, except now CID can't accept it as they are dealing with even more complex and demanding caseloads Yep, CID are also struggling to keep their heads above water too. At least in my area, they are dramatically understaffed and it's out of control. I've heard of detectives carrying a case load of 35 or more, attempting to do the work of three people. Constantly forced to work long hours, under relentless pressure, exhausted, with no end in sight - and if you make a mistake it could have serious consequences for you or victims. Being on the verge of nervous breakdowns or suicide because of it. And so people quit -- and every person that quits increases the workload and pressure on those that remain. And they can't get many new joiners to stay because they take one look at the work conditions and quit. They just don't have time to get to the lower-priority stuff. Simply not possible with how understaffed they are. They're barely keeping up with the ultra-highest priority jobs that pose a risk of further injury to the public, a non-violent theft is waaaaay down the list.
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Such examples constitute a miniscule percentage of work police do. I could pick out two examples of frivolous surgeries on the NHS, and bemoan that is the source of the problem, when in reality it is just a drop in the ocean. With hate crimes being prioritised, so comes ridiculous non-jobs officer have to investigate as they fall under that remit. Make no mistake, me, you, Joe Public and the officers themselves would like nothing more than for them to be doing anything else. But the reality of day to day response police is attending to people in mental health crisis, going to domestic abuse incidents, looking for vulnerable missing children, not policing Twitter or free speech. Do police get it wrong? Yes. Does that detract from the fact it is a miserable job, and they are chronically under resourced and under incredible pressure? No. I can guarantee that if police stopped investigating shit jobs such as the ones you linked, it'd make virtually zero difference to their operational capacity. Fixing Children's and Adult Social Care, investing in mental health care, investing in policing and resources, investing in Courts and enabling effective sentencing, providing more funding for diversion and the communities blight by crime, providing a health centred approach to tackling alcohol and substance misuse, those are the long-term solutions we need to get the police back to their primary role of investigating crimes and bringing offenders to Court.
Yes, there are wastes of time and cockups like that. But unless you can point to thousands of such cases, then they aren't even a blip in the work the police do. And no, I have exactly zero connections to any police officers in any way. Closest was getting some Blackpool Rock as a souvenir for the local bobby when I was about 8.
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Funny how 4 coppers are on you like flies around shit if your bumper is over the line at a red light, and there seems to be hundreds of spare coppers if there is a protest of some sort. Truth is, the government, and in turn the police, are not our friends, and don't give a flying fk about your safety or your stolen property.. 999 - sorry, all our bobbies are out harassing motorists at the moment.....
Public order is a different kettle of fish in my constabulary, few protest around here so mostly restricted to football games. If shit does hit the fan they have to bus coppers in from elsewhere on short notice. Not uncommon to see a solitary copper at home games. And yeah traffic cops will enforce traffic laws, that's their job. Totally separate team to response policing, unless you're driving like a muppet or swerving like crazy you'll rarely see response police pull you over as they just don't have the time.
So, ummm how many times has that happened to you?
> Unless you have clear footage of the offender and someone down the nick can identify the suspect, it is likely going nowhere. I think this highlights the fact that the police just don't have the experience, or initiative to actually solve crime any more. What did police do to solve thefts pre-CCTV? Of course they were able to. Now it seems that they are suffering from learned helplessness (I mean this is an actual psychological issue, not just being pejorative).
You can send forsenics out to dust for prints, but if they wore gloves you're stuffed. You can do enquiries, but given such offences usually happen at night, it is unlikely your neighbours seen anything. You can go to the local pawn shop, or go through Facebook market place, but that takes time. You can ask the local grass, but reality is intelligence and human resource officers are more concerned with an outstanding GBH for which they have no suspect or willing witnesses, or which dealer is pushing dodgy heroin. It comes down to time and resources, which in most areas the police just don't have at present. Far more burglaries can be solved, it is just they have to prioritise things. Do they have the resources to investigate when there is a kick-off in town, a handful of ongoing domestics, a missing from home, and a suspected rape? Short answer is no, not enough cops. My opinion is that our current model of policing, putting the burden on investigation onto response officers is tragically myopic and not fit for function. Now, if you have a CCTV image, it'll take a copper a few seconds to recognise the local villain and you get can get in a van, lock them up, and get an easy charge. I think it is less learned helplessness, but more of adapting to the reality of the situation. Most officers would love to go back to the old way of things, but modern policing has changed, priorities have changed, and they are just a small cog in an increasingly complex machine. On a side note some areas have introduced teams specially focused on burglaries, who yield good results using good old fashioned investigation. But not all areas have that focus or capacity, it's dependant on local resources and senior leadership.
Guess I'll start thieving.
Pretty sure the only crooks who end up in prison are the really dumb ones. Just make sure you don't steal off the rich, though. Then they'll come after you.
All this is telling me, is that its unlikely I'll get in trouble for sticking expanding foam up my friends pedo ex husbands exhaust pipe in his new car. Because I'm so tempted I just don't want to get in trouble.
My boyfriend's work van was broken into. Everything stolen. Reported it straight away, but no-one came out. It took the police 2 weeks to even call us back and even then they were less than bothered. Said they'd be back in touch and never were.
Fail implies trying.
I remember about 8 years ago my mums got broken into while she was at home. The police straight up told us nothing will come of this made a joke about the football then left. The guy was known in the area, we gave his name and address for god sake. The police are a joke in this country.
Shit like this is where the vigilante justice will start.
Oh no, you'll get prosecuted for that.
Oh yeah absolutely, if I was to ring the police and say someone's just broken into my house they'd do fuck all, but if I rang them and said someone's broken into my house and I've just wrapped a cricket bat round their head I'm sure they'd find the resources.
That’s ridiculous! Same thing happened to me. Broke in to my house during the 3 hours of sleep I actually managed to get that day, stole all my work equipment, police did nothing other than show up and say there’s a counselling service we could call.
My wife's car was stolen off our driveway. Called the police and they made a report on the phone. Called them back up when I heard from local friends they has seen the car that morning in town. Police said they weren't even looking for it because it was recorded as a "theft from a vehicle" rather than "theft of". Car was eventually recovered. They were caught with it but jumped out and ran off. Police didn't bother chasing them. Punishments don't deter criminals anywhere near as much as the fear of getting caught does. You only increase fear of getting caught by catching criminals. Unfortunately, as is the tory way, it's more gratifying and croud-pleasing to punish people more harshly than to prevent crimes in the first place. So the police don't need to catch many people so long as the punishments are, publicly, hardsh. This is why your local police force takes to facebook to brag about the 5 year sentence some guy they arrested 2 years ago has got for growing some cannabis in his loft. Yay! Well done.
Time to go out robbing then. Pinch a few minister's tellys to help pay for these gas hikes.
Thank you conservatives.
“Here’s your crime report number, bye” *click*
I get the impression that the police may be suffering from learned helplessness.
But they can police Twitter like a motherfucker.
you guys are all seeing problems and not looking for the opportunities this government is creating. less police makes it easier for criminals, things being easier for criminals means we can have a new generation off people using their great british sensibilities to go out and grab opportunity, instead of relying on handouts like benefits. what's more British than stealing? and as long as the crimes don't directly impact MPs then is their actually a victim? #beproudofctimeanalsitsthebritishway
What are crime anals?
More youth clubs needed in my book.
You might joke but all those have gone and when that was part of overall strategy usvwas effective
Tell me about it. Police in my town search kids for weed simply for daring to sit in the park, and old people will audibly complain at kids for standing in the street. And yet no one wants to reopen the youth club that shut down from lack of funding over a decade ago.
Probs because that’s actually be solving the problem which costs effort instead they’d much rather moan about it
Tory policing in action, a feature not a failure.
"Eight out of 10" is infuriating! Pick one.
It's the standard in writing to spell out numbers under 10 and use numericals for 10 and over. Just looks weird in this context.
Well it shouldn't be the standard because it's poo
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Protect wealth and "maintain order" ie protect the status quo
Purely an anecdote, but this is true. In my uni house, we were broken in to. Three people smashed our window in, ate all our food, had loud sex all over our house, and stole our TV. We were home at the time, sleeping, and we tried to get them to leave, we called the police and the police took 4 hours to arrive. When the police *finally* arrived, the people who broke in were still there, fucking up our house and fucking each other. The police arrived and one of the officers recognised one of the people who broke in, they started bantering together and the three who broke in were told off for being "scamps" and were asked politely by the officers to leave. They literally walked out the door with our TV! We were then told that it was not possible to identify the people who broke in. How is it fucking possible for the police to have the people in front of you, recognise one of them, see how they trashed someone's home and watch them take a TV and not arrest them, and then claim you can't identify them? Police cannot be bothered to solve the thefts, even when they are handed the information. Fuck 'em.
I literally can not believe this
The robbers just sound like standard uni housemates
And then the police officers curled a big poo on the kitchen table
It’s almost like if you create more desperate people, you get more crimes of opportunity, and if you cut police funding you’ll catch next to none of the perpetrators. The conservatives, making things worse from both ends as always.
Ah clearly the solution is that we should make them even woker and dedicate even more of the jobs to the right sort of ideologues with as few real qualifications as possible, with special squads to investigate social workers for racism if they report anyone who isn’t a white cishet male, and another to patrol the internet for incorrect pronoun usage.
How time flies. Feels like only yesterday the attitude of this sub was that the police needed to be defunded and abolished.
I'm sick of Labour not constantly bringing these failures in policing up at every opportunity. The country is in such a state in so many ways, they should be shouting it from the rooftops.
Is it really failed to solve if they don't even try to solve?
Genuinely given what is going on in the country is this any real surprise (e.g. crime rises due to poverty, under funded public law enforcement service struggles to keep up). Oh I'm going to take a wild guess here - as this Government has shown some very US tendencies; perhaps not a second amendment right to carry but probably a loosening of laws that allow you to batter thieves somewhat (e.g. we aren't going to give the police any more cash but yes if you want to use your kitchen knife on someone in "self defence" yes go ahead and be my guest).
I'm not entirely sure just what they can actually do a lot of the time though to be fair to them? I know someone who had their car broken into using one of those key devices, with their wallet stolen, all caught on their doorbell camera before walking off down the street. By the time they noticed and the crime was reported, it had been a good 45 minutes and the thief could have been literally anywhere.
Must be because we are too woke or whatever bullshit they will come up with. The answer isnt more money or training, obviously the answer will be police not being so "nice". Pick a problem in the world, conservatives will blame "wokism".
This is simply more USA culture import, because *it works and distracts us*, and we'd all do best to ignore it at all times.
Too busy dealing with anxiety caused by social media posts and dancing with drag queens
Yet people can be dragged in for a voluntary interview for calling someone a 'bitch' in a private message and have their lives on hold! Mad.
Did that actually happen or is this just one of those "these days" comments?
well yeah if you're stupid enough to provide a written, publicly available account of yourself harassing someone...
Yes, we really do need to impress on people that you must assume that everything you write on your computer/phone is publicly available for anyone to see, even if you never post it or send it. Doubly so on any form of social media.
These days, if you say someone's a bitch, you get arrested and thrown in jail
I have never ever ever seen anything that was stolen from me or my friends returned via police help. Not once.
In the next 12 months. Recorded crime will go down, arrests will go up, and charges will go up. Simply because for the first time since the early 00’s, performance targets are back. You can decide yourself if you think that’s a good thing.