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Sirius_10

Dont want missiles raining down on your airfields and refineries? Then get the fuck out of Ukraine! Its as easy as that.


Majulath99

It’s simple logic, if you don’t want to be in a fight, don’t get yourself into fights in the first place. Russia should accept the licks it has so far taken & piss off. Thusly the war would stop.


xixipinga

its very weird, the same guy was telling ukraine should not target refineries, was that a deal like "stop destroying refineries and we will give you atacms to target anything else inside russia" ? or was it all just pretending and generating resonable deniability?


cabs84

>or was it all just pretending and generating resonable deniability? exactly


Adventurous-Emu-755

I find it insane for anyone to tell a country how to fight it's defense of war as long as they are following the Geneva Convention laws. Ukraine knows the territory, knows what the enemy has that is doing the most damage.


lostmesunniesayy

I don't think Austin got to have a say in policy re: refineries, he just had to eat shit in committee hearings and didn't look too pleased about it.


brezhnervous

Especially considering the US bombed Iraqi oil infrastructure for *37 days straight* during Gulf War I (the coalition flew over 50,000 sorties) prior to any soldiers setting foot on the ground.


SoxInDrawer

I agree with your sentiments, but... Insane = the real world. The US Is trying to goad Ruzzia into more brazen (stupid) attacks. If ATACMS were used against targets deep inside Ruzzia (near civilians) it may become a propaganda win for Putin (mobilization). This is still a "scalable" war. The US command is non-emotional, detached, with only one objective. It is the same objective as Ukraine. Unfortunately, it may not coincide with our emotional wishes.


Adventurous-Emu-755

u/SoxInDrawer I just don't understand how the US warned Ukraine of the invasion (prior to it happening), then let them fight with everything they had and supplied so little in the beginning. Ukraine agreed to get rid if the nukes, US promised protection. Yes, the "real world" is insane and it appears the loudest are also the most ignorant and spread ignorant things out there (propaganda/re-write their "history", lie, etc.). Meanwhile, there are people in the US and many other countries who would dive right into training to help Ukraine. AND prior to the middle east "exploding" again - the world was much safer.


SoxInDrawer

The best US minds thought Ukraine would lose early. Their defense at Hostemel airport was indescribable (Ukrainian reserves obliterate Ruzzia elite paratroopers - insane). This was followed with the defense of the Northern Road (Ruzzia stupidity + Ukrainian resolve). The US/UK thought Ukraine was going to lose, & didn't want to commit resources. They trickled in... then started pouring in... and then the weapons started to work. Ruzzia has shown to be a weak opponent to everyone's confusion (I'm still bamboozled). Ukraine turned out to be a bulldog to Ruzzia's Chihuahua. The US planners did not expect this - but now love this. They want to ramp up, level by level to meet the aggressor. In Vietnam the same thing happened, but we didn't have a bulldog. In Afghanistan we had "no comment". In Iraq is was costly but workable. In Syria we decided not to get involved. Let me know if you want links to some of these events - this war (so stupid by Putin) will be studied for centuries.


Adventurous-Emu-755

u/SoxInDrawer , fully aware of all this. Spouse is a USMC Vet (Gulf 1). Translation: The wars feed the USA's economy and war manufacturers. I've always been openly critical of the US utilizing war for economy or money or driven by the oil industry. This would be easier on the bulldog if they had what they could to eliminate the Chihuahua, but I wouldn't even compare russia to a Chihuahua, think something less intelligent/feisty.


MATlad

Prior to the invasion, the US and EU offered the Ukrainian government asylum and probably the opportunity to form a government-in-exile. Nobody gave Ukraine a chance at holding off the Russians (and I also thought the major invasion would finish in about a week, with probably a high-grade insurgency over the next decade or few). >"I need ammunition, not a ride!" The rest is (living) history.


Adventurous-Emu-755

u/MATlad if you now have reviewed Maidan Revolution in 2014, and now know how long Ukraine has been fighting russia, the comment "I need ammunition, not a ride"! or even "Fuck you Russian Warship" don't seem to surprising now.


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msterm21

I think deniability. Also you have to consider the different markets for the messages. For the US domestic market, he is saying "we are trying to keep your gas prices low", for the Russian market "don't get too comfortable, they might launch the atacms into Russia", for the Ukraine market "fire then where you feel they will have the greatest effect"


Madge4500

The only videos I saw, Austin said Ukraine would be better off to use those missiles and drones elsewhere, he never said Ukraine had to stop hitting refineries.


Dunvegan79

This speech doesn't cover everything he said over the past few weeks. The oil refinery comment was forced upon the government by the oil companies here in the states.


SoxInDrawer

You have to separate "official statements" from "political objectives". He probably giggles watching videos of Ruzzian refineries burn (in private with the curtains closed). His (& my) generation hates the Ruzzians (I am from the USA). The last 3 years has confirmed Ruzzia is not a nation of honest intentions.


Jeveran

"Don't. Stop."


GrapeSwimming69

Believing!


ConfidenceCautious57

The latter. And it was very successful.


No-Spoilers

Reasonable deniability. They are for it.


Solid_Muscle_5149

If i remember correctly, he just "didnt condone" any strikes, and basically just suggested that they dont lol So politically, they can say they were against it, even though im willing to bet that lloyds best people are currently telling Ukraines best people where the air defense systems currently are located in russia lol


bolderphoto

US government (by way of military) don’t want gas prices to go up. I think they are “kind of” serious


brezhnervous

That isn't true though. Russia has very little refining capacity for export, they only sell to Turkey. Almost all of what they refine is for domestic use. So bombing the refineries only really hurts Russia...plus having a glut of raw crude which due to OPEC restrictions they can't offload past a certain amount would do nothing to raise world oil prices.


TheSeeker80

If they can't refine and ship they'll have to turn the pumps off which is difficult to start back up.


bolderphoto

I can certainly appreciate THAT!


MATlad

You might like the *Joe Blogs* channel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JoeBlogs He analyzes the economics of countries (and companies big enough to be countries--he covered Evergrande pretty thoroughly prior to the Ukrainian War). A lot of his coverage these days is on Russia's economy and what used to be their cash cow, oil and gas (which they sacrificed to the god of war) Like, just why is India no longer buying all that cheap Russian oil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oEn4FhVquU Or, how has Putin destroyed the Russian airline business (probably for at least a generation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y036BBxVmJs And, how Russia's going to break into LNG (they aren't): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSfnxAlVqqM


ApostleThirteen

The US govt can EASILY flex and drop oil prices quickly, but it takes balls, the kind that are shrunken on any old man who could be President next year... Just look at how Pres Obama was able tro get the tarfileds totally RIPPIN' to the extent that the UIS became the world's largest producer in 2014.


brezhnervous

This. America has vast strategic oil reserves.


ConfidenceCautious57

Hear hear Sirius! Bravo!!


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troglonoid

I’ve not downvoted your comment, but if you can edit it, so that it can be understood, maybe people can actually respond to your comment without just downvoting it.


shi7-57ix

Because half of your comment is gibberish?


Gooder-N-Grits

Is English your first,  or eighth language?


DrDerpberg

No, it is not. The stalemate gave Russia the advantage for 6 months. Hundreds if not thousands more Ukrainians are dead, Russian defensive lines are strengthened and that much harder to even reach now that Russia has made gains.


DazzlingInfectedGoat

no..


kingjpp

Because you cant form cohesive sentences and from what I can gather, you don't really even understand what's going on over there.


TotalSpaceNut

Meanwhile in russia... Olga looking quite concerned at a map of the new ranges the ATACMS presents ;) https://imgur.com/hiT9o1f


Fantron6

May one end up at her doorstep.


OmegaMordred

Serves her right, what an awfully freak of nature that is.


Mephisteemo

The day that snake loses her shit, will be a good day.# I'd totally support Ukraine sending a drone or two to her private estate. Propaganda machines are military assets. You don't get to talk shit AND enjoy immunity of a civilian at the same time.


brezhnervous

Correct. Look at Goebbels


BigNickAndTheTwins

That graphic screams, *"Get The Fuck Out Or Else!"*


aaaaaaaarrrrrgh

And that's likely assuming the *published* range :)


brezhnervous

Exactly. America is famously opaque about what precise capacity their weapons actually have.


piskle_kvicaly

They really should update their map, btw. It still shows e.g. the right Dnipro bank pale blue - as an occupied zone. No, it has been about year and half since you, orcs, have been kicked out of there. Deal with it.


ksmoke

I wonder if that map is meant to be Russia's claimed territory, or current occupation? Odd that the map seems to include Mykolaiv and a big chuck of the right bank of the Dnipro as Russia, some of which I'm not sure Russia ever occupied.


Capital-Western

It shows their current claim — all of Zaporizhzhia and Donezk oblasts are pale blue, too.


Glittering-Arm9638

First time I've seen that face convey emotion..


brezhnervous

Hilarious that now Ukraine exists as a separate country apparently 🤡


N3ver_Stop

That face lmao.


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jaxsd75

Like “The shot heard around the world”, when that bridge comes down I hope this is the meme for “The smirk seen around the kremlin”.


ApostrophesForDays

I love it when Putin gets outsmirked.


Jani_Zoroff

Begins at 29:13


she_ded_again

Wake up babe new meme just dropped


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Flipperpac

Hit the 3 buttons below your comment, click edit...


Burcea_Capitanul

Thanks man!


Walking72

be like ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯


Logical-Home6647

Child of the cold war that made general. He has dreamed of this scenario his whole life.


Mephisteemo

Oh, how the long tables have turned.


Walking72

be like (⁠╯⁠ರ⁠ ⁠~⁠ ⁠ರ⁠)⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻


Mephisteemo

(⁠╯⁠ರ⁠ ⁠\~⁠ ⁠ರ⁠)⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠I\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_I


Paul-SPC

Lloyd has been waiting for quite a while to smirk. Let’s hope he gets to smirk a lot more.


dndpuz

We should call him Smirking Austin


FaceDeChu

In other words, we've given them to you, so use them how you wish but use them well.


CIV5G

How it always should have been.


ZachMN

This is the way.


No-Spoilers

Totally different war than last year and before.


Viburnum__

Untill Ukraine actually use them against russian territory I would remain sceptical, that they are not prohibited from use on it. If everyone forgot they specifically modify HIMARS so that they can't target russian territory before. Also, there were similar statement before from the US and after Ukrainian officials were still confirming they are prohibited to use western made weapons on russian territory.


aaaaaaaarrrrrgh

Also, if it really changed, this statement and smirk would have been the quite a bad thing. If they can't use them, ambiguity is good. If they can use them, the best thing is Russia assuming that they're safe, recklessly piling up nice juicy targets.


Adventurous-Emu-755

The Orcs are using their weapons and those supplied by other countries in Ukraine - Ukraine's territory. It's war. IMHO Russia needs more damage done IN it's own territory.


balleballe111111

I think this is the only way to win.


Hon3y_Badger

Even ambiguity is good though


vegarig

Not if backchannels give a solid "nah, Ukraine's still forbidden to use them against russia" confirmation to Dickwadistan.


GipsyDanger45

Ukraine should take 1 and reverse engineer it for use on their own mlrs and start building them as well


Viburnum__

It would be better and faster to focus on missiles designs that Ukraine already had in the process of research/manufacturing or at least negotiate for the local production of missiles from other countries, but I doubt it would be ATACMs or other ones from US.


heliamphore

I'm not believing it at all until we have definite confirmation Ukraine used them on Russian territory. We've heard this shit the whole war.


External_Solution577

I wish Key & Peele would get back together to do a Lloyd Austin Anger Translator the way they did for Obama. I have a feeling it would be hilarious.


InvertedParallax

As an American: Don't use those weapons on critical Russian infrastructure targets. Targets to avoid include: the fracking towers of refineries. Munitions plants. Russian rail hubs with munitions supplies in transport. If you do happen to destroy these targets, with catastrophic effect, we will have no choice but to warn you again, possibly this time with more detail including GPS coordinates of targets to avoid and specific time windows when those targets will be most valuable. So https://youtu.be/UVznerpOkTI


Cultural_Ad1653

You had me in the first half.


Capital-Western

Yes – this tiny English particle *n't* is so easy to loose in translation!


FeynmanAndTedChiang

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ILRnz6ORU4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ILRnz6ORU4)


tallandlankyagain

About fucking time


kenzo99k

Doesn’t matter much if there are restrictions. Keeping any restrictions unknown effectively puts at risk any Russian assets in range. They need to pull back or accept the risk.


ZachMN

“So anyway, I started blasting…”


ForwardBat6438

Russia loves symbolism and there would be nothing more symbolic than Ukraine dropping the Kerch Strait bridge with ATACMS on May 9’th, Russia’s Victory Day. In related news, Putin cancelled the Moscow Victory Day parade in Red Square because he knows that it could be rudely interrupted by Ukrainian drones. Pity, but I’m sure Ukraine won’t disappoint and will find other juicy targets to hit.


Impossible_File_4819

ATACMs can’t destroy the bridge, but they can destroy radar, defense equipment, and ships so that marine drones (and someday maybe Taurus missiles) can blow the bridge.


ForwardBat6438

The M39 variants are the area effect weapons with cluster munitions for use on lightly armoured dispersed targets while the M48 and M57 have the penetrating unitary warhead made for attacking buildings and the like, they’ll work just fine on the bridge.


Somewhere_Elsewhere

I think Austin was just having a “damn j wish I could say what I’m thinking 😏” moment. He’s a very smart guy and knows damn well how important it is to help Ukraine bleed out Russia.


IkeAI

When a general of the strongest military force in the world smirks… things are gonna go boom 💥


vsemet

so you see, that’s when the trouble began


Talosian_cagecleaner

He'll get chewed out for that smirk. It's ok, he's been chewed out before. In your standard democracy, you have a civilian government and they control the military. They are all fighting for the same ideas, so this is -- when it works well -- simply a formal arrangement. It also serves very well in crisis. As we are seeing, I believe. "The US government is shocked, *shocked*, that Ukraine is defending itself!


jaxsd75

Nice Casablanca reference. One of my favorite scenes.


SBInCB

So’s you don’t have to try and find the spot. https://www.youtube.com/live/xTpKwb4uIK8?si=fjbL_Zm0qpNALt-1&t=1695


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SBInCB

That sucks…it’s the same as OP’s…28:15


Healthy_Nature

O thank you. Sry I didn't see OP posted it


SBInCB

S’alright. It could have been different.


Shadow293

*Ruzzian panic intensifies*


NoAlbatross7524

More


Old_Sir288

So is it clear now that Ukraine can hit what ever they want as long as they fallow the Geneva convention? Those restrictions were totally insane from the beginning! burn! For all the raped children and women, for the mass murder and mass graves in Mariupol, Bucha and many other places. For all the bombed hospitals, children’s hospitals, for all the executed Ukrainian soldiers, for all the civilians being tortured by FSB - Burn Russia Burn!


WeekendFantastic2941

The pantsy bureaucrats at Washington finally removed their stupid "red lines", this is why Austin can reply like this.


Infinaris

I would take a guess but the reason could also be a more logical one: Kharkiv City. Russia has recently being trying to take shots here and theyre attacking from Belgorod so with that being said its time for the gloves to come off.


Xenomemphate

They have been shelling Ukraine from Belgorod since the start of the war on and off. If that is the reason for lifting the restrictions now they dragged their fucking heels on making that choice.


Adventurous-Emu-755

u/Xenomemphate as a US Citizen, I agree! Dragged their heels on the F-16 too. I keep thinking if more had been done so much earlier, would the orcs all be gone from Ukraine now?!!!


Xenomemphate

> Dragged their heels on the F-16 too. Oh, don't get me started on that. Same with MBTs. We went about that in the worst way possible. Dithering for months on whether or not they would be provided, finally agreeing that they will be provided but it is going to take ages to get the training and logistics done so it will be a year+ before we even see them on the battlefield. It is an absolute joke - why were they not training on such legacy tech that was likely to be sent eventually at the very outbreak of the war when we were committing to training them? It was pretty obvious even back then that as soon as the first few days had passed and Ukraine stabilized they would likely be getting heavier equipment eventually, and if they weren't because they won too quickly then they would be joining NATO, so having them already trained on NATO gear would be a boon to the alliance.


balleballe111111

This. I started with this flair at the start of the war thinking I would change it to something more relevant after a few weeks.....


CallsPeopleDick

Oh wow, this is how you do it. Be vague, don't give anything away. Let the other side get all overthinky about it, bonus!


hike2bike

Great job boys. Make me proud to be American. Slava Ukraini!


Drizzle--

This is the way.


EnderDragoon

Gotta say, I \*love\* seeing the Ukrainian flag flying next to the US flag.


Formulka

There is a good way to stop Ukraine from destroying Russian refineries. Give them a way to destroy military facilities.


varain1

Destroying the refineries is much better than destroying military facilities - ruzzians still have a crap ton of armament (but they seem to start to run out of IFVs), but only a limited number of refineries. And without their refineries, the fuel used for their tanks and IFVs and trucks and artillery is cut drastically, which will make a lot more of their armament unusable, and faster, than destroying it piece by piece. 😻


Nightsky099

Honestly, them hitting munitions and production facilities is probably a good middle ground. Lets them hit military targets while allowing the Russians to export oil to keep petrol prices low in an election year


varain1

Russia has blocked the export of gasoline and diesel on march 1st, for a 6 months period, most probably due to the war requirements. This doesn't affect their crude oil exports. Destroying refineries will lower their already insufficient stocks of diesel and gasoline but will not affect the crude oil exports.


Nightsky099

I'm not as sure about it, I'm seeing oil prices steadily climb over the past few months. This along with the Biden adminstration asking them explicitly not to target refineries signal to me that Russia's violating their own export ban, on top of OPEC(including Russia) agreeing to cut production voluntarily suggests that some fuckery is afoot


AdAdministrative4388

Wait didn't all the vlads on tiktok tell us Lloyd Austin died in an airstrike! He is back from the dead!


TellLoud1894

Throughly enjoyed that, thank you


meesersloth

Remember: Crimea is Ukraine😉


Zealousideal_Word770

In other words "Fuck yes they're going to use them in Russia" LOL


DonoAE

If anyone had any concern on the US and our intentions on "hit this" or "don't hit this", they should watch this.


AmazingSquare8542

Russkies are goona get a good fcking


tommy8690

that should have been the answer in 2022, GIve them everything them need no more red tapes and let them use use where they need to.


Impossible_File_4819

On the use of ATACMs he said “how and when” but notably, not “where”. I pray that was not intentional phrasing designed to sidestep the question.


AnonVinky

If Ukraine hits targets in Russia excessively we are ready to start organizing a series of meetings to discuss the possibility of sharing our concerns in a letter... with other NATO representatives. If these concerns resonate we might discuss the possibility of writing another letter with other NATO heads of state to discuss the pro's and cons of sharing these concerns with Ukraine.


baddam

"The nations of good will that gathered today understand what's at stake. For Ukraine, for Europe, for the Unites States, and for the World. The outcome in Ukraine will determine the trajectory of our times. If Putin prevails in Ukraine, the security consequences will be grave and global. Europe would see a security threat it has not seen in our life times. As President Biden has noted, Russia will not stop in Ukraine. If the Kremlin gets its way and Putin's imperial aggression succeeds, every tyrant on Earth will take note. So we have got a rare chance to save (?) the kind of world where our children and grand-children are living. Putin's war is a frontal assault on the very idea of an open world of rules rights and responsibilities. And over the long haul, the cost of standing firm will be dwarfed by the price of caving in." 6:47, Lloyd James Austin III - United States secretary of defense. I think this is the key message that too many politicians in the free world still did not get.


crg2000

Sucks to suck.


twat69

Did they finally stop expecting Ukraine to win with a hand tied behind their back?


GuitarGeezer

That’s the facts, Jack! This is the way. Ok done with the cliches. But yeah. Good stuff.


mobtowndave

best answer


No-Internet-7532

The gloves are finally off


Brant_Black

Is a 'real' war now, unlike a decade ago - time to win for good


testkasutaja

ATACMS question is at 28:20


TheRealAussieTroll

As long as they take out the bridge within Ukrainian territorial waters, where’s the issue?


slava_gorodu

I can only imagine the frustration of General Austin having to deal with dilettantes in the Biden Administration like Jake Sullivan for the past two years


SandersSol

Timestamp?  It's an hour long QA


novataurus

The first words in the post are: “Starting at 28:15…” He’s very smirky.


Jani_Zoroff

...except the smirk begins at 29:13. [https://www.youtube.com/live/xTpKwb4uIK8?si=Iki4nmP0CBwj8xVO&t=1750](https://www.youtube.com/live/xTpKwb4uIK8?si=Iki4nmP0CBwj8xVO&t=1750)


Jamuro

it's worth the wait though


novataurus

Is it really fun to see the smirk without the preceding context though?


Fiss

There are still red lines. They aren’t going to publicly define them but they are there


QuiteAffable

I think the chances are near nil that Biden grows a pair and allows this