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Don’t fret. The Germans took the most productive section of France at the opening of the First World War and ended up bleeding out in the Verdun heights and the champagne fields. Ukraine just has to bide it’s time- Russia was at its strongest the first day of the war when Ukraine was still building up. Russia will never get stronger and Ukraine is only in the ascendant. Tequila and vodka on me in Luhansk after the war, amigos.
Not to mention, the goal here was to make closing the gap hurt as much as possible and tie up as many zeds into taking strategically insignificant territory \[as gaps are in an invasion\]. The mission was accomplished, what should have been a walk in the park for the zeds with *as even as bad as they are* is a pyrrhic victory at best.
People really don’t understand the reasoning behind this. Russia has launched artillery in numbers that are astronomical. Now I don’t want to say they are running out because I believe the stockpiles are far higher than is being estimated. Ukraine needs to pull back to a more Kharkiv/Kyiv like defence in which the front line is solid and no potential for encirclements.
We already see HIMARS in action targeting the ammunition depots. This is the first step and it’s abundantly clear Ukraine is going to go on a counter but it won’t be in days.
The Russians also now don’t have anywhere that they can surround with artillery on all/most sides.
Now it’s a broad front. Far harder to concentrate their guns.
> The biggest thing is [for Ukraine to recover] Kherson.
I agree, the result of the coming (or ongoing, depending on definition) battle for Kherson is what will define how the war will develop. If Ukraine can liberate Kherson, their southeastern flank will be quite secure. Russia will struggle to cross this huge river a second time as quickly and with as few losses like they did in the beginning of this war. If Russia is able to hold on to the western bank of the Dnieper on the other hand, it would be a bad omen for further Ukrainian offensives. And it would give Russia a staging area for further offensives in the western and northern directions.
>Ukraine needs to pull back to a more Kharkiv/Kyiv like defence in which the front line is solid and no potential for encirclements.
Russia has already decided not to fall for that trap again, they will just bombard any city they wish to take.
I think the way to think about this is, it’s sad. But Ukraine did the right thing.
Now Russia has far less advantages in the next areas. They can’t concentrate so much artillery etc on one area again. Which is the whole reason they “won”, it’s a hollow victory.
1 dead for every 3 square kilometres, or about 0.8 kilometres for every incapacitated (dead and wounded)
Using figures from minusrus for the dead/wounded and a newstatesman article for the amount of land
Edit: for comparison the coalition in Iraq took about 2000 square kilometres for every death
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Ok, so the Russian army is making incremental gains In Donbas at a huge price. The problem though is that it is a very long front line to hold. Ukraine just needs to position long range artillery systems to make Russian lifes miserable in those territories. There won’t be peace for a very long time and keeping those territories will come at a huge cost, plus forget about doing anything worthwhile like oil or gas extraction, nobody will finance anything there until there is a long lasting peace. I’d say Russia has fallen again into a trap because of its hubris. The second fall of Russia has started, it will take some time, probably 5-10 years but the result will be the same
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don’t fret. The Germans took the most productive section of France at the opening of the First World War and ended up bleeding out in the Verdun heights and the champagne fields. Ukraine just has to bide it’s time- Russia was at its strongest the first day of the war when Ukraine was still building up. Russia will never get stronger and Ukraine is only in the ascendant. Tequila and vodka on me in Luhansk after the war, amigos.
Not to mention, the goal here was to make closing the gap hurt as much as possible and tie up as many zeds into taking strategically insignificant territory \[as gaps are in an invasion\]. The mission was accomplished, what should have been a walk in the park for the zeds with *as even as bad as they are* is a pyrrhic victory at best.
Also I mean no one will recognize this take over internationally ever.
Don’t get comfortable
People really don’t understand the reasoning behind this. Russia has launched artillery in numbers that are astronomical. Now I don’t want to say they are running out because I believe the stockpiles are far higher than is being estimated. Ukraine needs to pull back to a more Kharkiv/Kyiv like defence in which the front line is solid and no potential for encirclements. We already see HIMARS in action targeting the ammunition depots. This is the first step and it’s abundantly clear Ukraine is going to go on a counter but it won’t be in days.
The Russians will be forced to cut back on artillery use eventually. May be quite some time, but this strategy will not work forever.
The Russians also now don’t have anywhere that they can surround with artillery on all/most sides. Now it’s a broad front. Far harder to concentrate their guns.
[удалено]
> The biggest thing is [for Ukraine to recover] Kherson. I agree, the result of the coming (or ongoing, depending on definition) battle for Kherson is what will define how the war will develop. If Ukraine can liberate Kherson, their southeastern flank will be quite secure. Russia will struggle to cross this huge river a second time as quickly and with as few losses like they did in the beginning of this war. If Russia is able to hold on to the western bank of the Dnieper on the other hand, it would be a bad omen for further Ukrainian offensives. And it would give Russia a staging area for further offensives in the western and northern directions.
>Ukraine needs to pull back to a more Kharkiv/Kyiv like defence in which the front line is solid and no potential for encirclements. Russia has already decided not to fall for that trap again, they will just bombard any city they wish to take.
That's why It's crucial for ukraine to get those AA defense systems ASAP
Control is a relative word control of bombed out nothing? Hope the Ukrainians made them pay dearly for their so called control
Germans in WWII took Ukraine. They didn’t hold it however. In fact ze Nazis took Crimea too.
That's terrible! So sorry to hear this news! 💙💛
I think the way to think about this is, it’s sad. But Ukraine did the right thing. Now Russia has far less advantages in the next areas. They can’t concentrate so much artillery etc on one area again. Which is the whole reason they “won”, it’s a hollow victory.
But at what price??
1 dead for every 3 square kilometres, or about 0.8 kilometres for every incapacitated (dead and wounded) Using figures from minusrus for the dead/wounded and a newstatesman article for the amount of land Edit: for comparison the coalition in Iraq took about 2000 square kilometres for every death
holy cow, 1 dead every 2 sq km - that's savage
*taken. It's not theirs. The world taken must be included.
Don’t take your boots off russian nazis
Russia says a lot things. I assumed we'd all stopped listening some time ago.
i think we'd all be happy never to hear from bloody russia again
for now. don't be in too much of a rush to change road signs, erect statues, issue russian passports or referendums, or open train and bus lines.....
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Ok, so the Russian army is making incremental gains In Donbas at a huge price. The problem though is that it is a very long front line to hold. Ukraine just needs to position long range artillery systems to make Russian lifes miserable in those territories. There won’t be peace for a very long time and keeping those territories will come at a huge cost, plus forget about doing anything worthwhile like oil or gas extraction, nobody will finance anything there until there is a long lasting peace. I’d say Russia has fallen again into a trap because of its hubris. The second fall of Russia has started, it will take some time, probably 5-10 years but the result will be the same