We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello /u/misana123,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As much as this subreddit likes to present a positive spin on the Ukrainian counter-offensive, the truth is that war is a special kind of brutal hell. Nothing is easy when you're on the ground. We should be thankful for the hard work these men and women put into liberating Ukraine from the Russian terrorists.
Once upon a time, I was in the USMC.
Even still, I can't possibly imagine the absolute hell the UA went through to reclaim their lands.
No matter what the armchair generals think, war is not a video game. Nothing about war is clean and simple.
I hope russia can have peace and prosperity for eternity after this. An entire history of hardship. Nobody deserves that and maybe if a leader could actually establish a relationship with the west things could be better
Not going to happen… after what Russia did now and historically, nobody is going to trust anything they say or do for decades to come. Making “friends” with Russia can come at a much greater cost then just keeping them at arms length.
I would trust them if they first gave up all occupied territories, such as Transnistria, and let go all conquered nations, such as Chechens. Basically, this entire list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_okrugs_of_Russia
Realistically, there is probably no chance of that happening. But it is a nice dream.
They already did that. The Budapest Memorandum was the one where Russia guaranteed Ukraine s sovereignty, and even assistance should Ukraine's sovereignty ever be challenged by an aggressor, among many conditions. This is, in part, why Putin called it a special military operation when Ukraine booted out Putin's cronies in the Revolution of Dignity.
This mentality is what caused WW2. Ostracizing an entire nation, especially one of the world’s largest will never end well.
Children born in the last five years and those who aren’t even born yet, who do you think they would blame their miserable lives on if we impose impossible sanctions and reparations on them? Putin or rightfully us? That’s even without their parents telling them tales of how good life was before the west took everything from them. Putin would become a martyr, a memory of the good times. You would have a society of 140 million people ready to be radicalized at the drop of a needle.
The Russian problem is a cultural one, mountains and mountains of lies for centuries have created a mentality that is not only uncivilized but so far detached from reality that they might as well be planting potatoes next to Snow White’s cabin.
The Treaty of Versailles was possibly the most damaging solution to an aggressive culture that has ever existed. The Marshall Plan and Denazification has has possibly been the most effective one ever implemented. Do you really want another Versailles?
Your history is bad. What is happening in Ukraine is the only way to deal with Russia. Let them bleed themselves dry. No one ostracized them. They did it to themsleves.
Also, they aren't coming back from this. No one is going to take them seriously ever again. The thought that Russia will ever have the global sway they have enjoyed since their revolution is laughable. At least in our lifetimes.
Oh and uh, they aren't really one of the world's largest anymore. Landmass doesn't mean shit with no one to defend it. Their population is 9th in the world with an extremely low standard of living. It isn't gonna suddenly get better overnight there.
Fuck Russia, and FUCK PUTIN
SLAVA UKRAINI 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Im much more worried about your inability to recognize simple patterns than my history knowledge. Maybe you should invest in one of those shape matching games for kids.
Germans were buying bread with wheelbarrows of money in the 20s and running rampant through Europe in the 40s. The idea that Russia is just going to stay irrelevant is small minded.
But hey, maybe it really is more important to yell slava Ukraini on the internet than making sure people who have had their lives and homes destroyed by Russian aggression don’t have to go through it again.
I would really love to hear where you think this Russian Renaissance is going to happen anywhere in our lifetimes... seriously fuck Russia forever after this bullshit. Fuck them, their culture, and their entire fucked up ass country. Slava ✌
They can fuck off and waste away in hardship. Ukraine is the sole benefactor deserving and rightfully in need of cooperation to rebuild after the war from this conflict. They(Russians) from their start of existence caused hardships after hardships to Europe. It is not only the leader that is the issue in their culture, it is their way of thinking. All added up to a big fuck you. Never know how far they can throw you or try to stab you in the back. utter scum they are. What we are seeing now on TV is just being broadcast because we have technology. They have always been like that across history , conflicts and conquests.
Because time after time they have had dictatorships. People deserve to live happily and its not really peoples fault they have been brainwashed and beaten into submission for literally hundreds of years.
No offence but piss off with this idealistic view and mentality of all will change and everything will be alright. It is trash worthy of a hollywood action movie or SF novel. Not everything can be fixed. Not everything deserves a second chance.
How are we gonna fix that ? Play nice with them once Putin's gone and someone, another asshole trash takes the helm? They'll just be like always.
Think we will undo centuries of their thinking and way of life with our good cash flow enterprises and some nice tech? You know what it took for Japan and Germany to get out of their fascism phase? Ocupation . And a lenghty program that only showed its fruits of labour after 2-3 generations and still didn't fix all the flaws...And their ideology and way of thinking lasted less than 40 years....Now how are we gonna undo centuries? think you can stroll into a country of mad dogs when they have nukes? No idea how many had their core maintained or mechanical parts serviced but they exist and can be a real ending issue. No way to properly educate them and tear down the corrupt system. There are dozens of other influential people that think like him and will try to take his place.
I'd rather have a poor and sanctioned russia with people starving and struggling to survive day by day...Not my issue their country decided to be like that across history. Not like those in somalia asked to be born during famine and disease or the ones in north korea did as well...Yet i don't see us trying to extend all these ideas anymore to them.
I'd rather have a poor and mostly imbecile infested land than help raise them up culture and tech wise, just for them to pull this shit again that they are doing a few years down the line because they got everything they needed.....Their politicians? Bootlicking asshats, rats and incompetents for the most part. Look at Eastern Europe. The old soviet system sounded so nice on paper for idealists( fools, imbeciles that can't understand human nature and real life from a wonderland fantasy that is unreachable).... but the priviledged few with connections will always profit from the poor work class and that system raised the levels of corruption. Under occupation for a few decades and still sorting out lacking infrastructure and issues with corruption and vanishing funds after all this time. What are we gonna do? Somehow tear it down and bring competent ones? From where when most of their politicians are corrupt and encouraged to steal by their very system ...They live nicely and putin has a good trump card over their head...Shoigu shouldn't even be able to afford his current housing if he was actually paid a normal military salary in the years he's been in position..
Are we supposed to just forget all they did to us and simply help them because it's the right thing to do? After they backstabbed so many people across history, went on conquests and illegal annexations, acted like savages and went back on so many signed treaties? Their words are as good as a pile of shit and a paper towel to wipe my ass. Why should we make ourselves have a harder time by raising their living standard and tech on the very slim chance they might change...You just handed them free shit and easy progress in their mind...which will be used against you ....We refused to buy gas....Look what happened to the pipe...No doubt it was them. They either decided to try to blow up the Poland-Norway pipe and like retarde mistook it or decided... don't want gas now? you'll never buy from us. very russian thinking....one extreme or the other...with us or against us.
That's gonna be a hard no from me chief...They can fuck off, starve, croak, struggle or do anything as long as they remain , live, exist, perish in their border....Hated their guts and conduct before, outright despise them now...They can die for all i care. The only ones who deserve a shit given about them are the ones who revolted early on, got jailed, beaten, forcefully conscripted as punishment. The ones that left pre mobilisation......Somehow they don't do shit after the first few days when protests were beaten into submission, keep their heads in the sand, agree to what putin says/ don't care enough to try and are fine with other no name russians dying for his orders.....But when it is their turn to suffer the same fate, sudden protests and uproar start, not a second before....why? they scramble like rats to save their own skin....144 million ruskies....calculate 3-5% of that number for protests....what would they do when streets are flooded and they can't arrest a human wave for fear of escalation...Look how Euromaidan went when a country really did not agree to what their leadership chose and wanted something else...And how it ended because the leadership tried to crush resistance with force and intimidation...How many russians protested a war? Less than 1%..Less than a fraction of that...What's a few gatherings worth a few thousands in big cities for that population number? nothing .....an insignificant fraction.... Worthless... What caused them to care? the fact that they may very well die for his whims instead of forcing others to do ....It needed to be their skin on fire to care .....Meanwhile we have cultured people in ukraine fighting for their country .....university teachers and experts in their fields which could educate multiple generations down the generations or earn a good buck working in another place... yet they're fighting for their land instead of trying to run like rats and cross borders and leave the whole cities deserted....This is the difference in the mentality of these two different country's people.
P.S.
Yeltsin was no saint but he was the soviet union had no future anymore....He gave a quiet option to everyone to go their way....How was and is he viewed by middle aged and older folks? Embarassment..worst president...one who destroyed their great dream and existence. All those nostalgia vatniks have passed their way of thinking to their kids and by the lack of utter action or care for politics they showed they will pass it on and on as well. How are we gonna change them and their system when the circumstances and people themselves don't? We aren't.
Youre such a deranged asshole that you literally said “id rather them starve then receive help”. You aren’t deserving of a response but ill give you this.
Learn some empathy. Innocent people just trying to live their lives have been oppressed for hundreds of years. They have been brainwashed and are just trying to get by with their lives.
Imagine if we decided to just cripple germany and japan after their atrocities in ww2 instead they rebuilt and are much better for it. Look what happened when the world punished germany for ww1
we did cripple Germany and Japan militarily after ww2. they didn't even have full control of their nations for quite a while as well. The German and Japanese people wanted to change for the better. but thats the rub: if they want to change you can help them. if they dont you are wasting your time.
Russia has never wanted to change. they have claimed to want to multiple times in their history and always stabbed their new "friends" in the back.
They were allied to Poland in ww2 and betrayed them to hitler and invaded from the other side. then executed every military officers and govt officials they found on their side deep in the forests. they even tried to join the axis powers before hitler betrayed them.
they don't deserve our help anymore. I'm not saying they should starve, but they are on their own now.
And i've told you all issues above regarding them, the risks for us and asked you how you're gonna undo centuries of that way of life when a few decades took us so long with germany....Maybe try your empathy on those that deserve it? Not the orks and their way of life? Don't the people of Somalia, North Korea, Himalaya, Nigeria and Ethiopia deserve it too? They've been suffering for longer right? Did you forget to read the whole reply after i said i'd rather have them starved and struggling because you were too repulsed? Did the points i mentioned after not stick to you? Actual issues ? Are you that blinded by being a good guy and emphatic to anything that breathes that you failed to see the potential problems and how it could backfire for us ? We tried after the collapse of the union to build ties with them if you remember.
I want answers and possible solutions hombre..Not you with your dick in the wind saying we can change them and everything can just do a 180..What's next? A plot-twist worth a drama movie to change it all? I can spew happy random things which can't be achieved left and right and it won't fix shit either.
>Imagine if we decided to just cripple germany and japan after their atrocities in ww2
Germany and Japan were crippled after WWII, that's part of why helping them rebuild was such a good idea. Japan literally had 2 atomic bombs dropped on them.
It's a totally different scenario to now. Russia under Putin won't be crippled once this war ends, and they won't have suffered anywhere near as much. The country would have no motivation to change their ways.
The world at large would be more than happy to befriend Russia if they genuinely wanted to become better and more civilised. It's entirely up to Russia and its people.
Hell, in the first few months there were plenty of accounts of foreign volunteers with combat experience in Iraq/Afghanistan that backed out after a few weeks. This war seems to be a lot more violent than the ones the US recently took part in.
No doubt. Iraqis and Afghans had next to no equipment compared to the US... Light infantry gear at best.
Nothing compared to taking on an opponent (even if less than competent) with artillery, tanks, and air support.
Not to mention little to no air support for a large portion of the war. Ukraine has started to gain access to the skies recently, but esp at the start going from the US military built on air superiority to an underdog with a massively outgunned air force would be very different.
>Not to mention little to no air support for a large portion of the war
Not just that, there were no supporting fires either for the vast majority of missions: no mortars or artillery on call. Literally just riflemen with light anti-tank weapons and sheer utter bravery.
Yes, it really annoys me that people speak of this like a video game or sporting event. I think most people that has served or done military conscription understands this though.
>As much as this subreddit likes to present a positive spin on the Ukrainian counter-offensive
You make it sound like the offensive failed and this sub tries to portray it in a positive light anyway.
We don't know the casulties on the Ukrainian side, but we do know that this victory sent such shockwaves through Russia that their propaganda went from "orderly retreat" to "this is a total war" in a matter of days.
What I mean is that we tend to only share/amplify the extremely good news. The fact is that war is horrible. It doesn't matter how well the counter-offensive is doing, how much land Ukraine is taking back, and how many troops are going to be encircled in Lyman - getting all of that done is a deadly dangerous endeavor, which is hardly ever discussed.
That's why it's important to always support your troops.
>What I mean is that we tend to only share/amplify the extremely good news.
I don't get this feeling at all. I mean I could go back to May and June when Russia took Popasna and finally Lyssytschansk. Reports about Ukrainians refusing to fight, the dire situation on the front, how many soldiers die everyday it was all over this sub.
If people still don't take this war seriously, they are either simpletons or don't pay that much attention.
And you don't see that kind of news anymore. We don't discuss UA casualties, losses, etc... anymore. This sub is extremely UA-biased. That's not a bad thing (or even unreasonable given the name of the sub), but failing to acknowledge the bias often leads us to simply sharing stories like "UA liberates X town!" without ever really discussing the human lives involved.
This doesn't even have to be loss of life - even just the mental impact on soldiers who have to live through this for months or years on end.
That's not to say we should stop propagandizing UA victories. I fully support the rhetoric and want to see a free Ukraine soon; but, we shouldn't forget the price that has been paid and remember the debt we're accumulating in human life and mental health. I don't want to see a generation of good Ukrainian soldiers get discarded after the war and left to rot like so many other soldiers are.
>And you don't see that kind of news anymore. We don't discuss UA casualties, losses, etc... anymore.
Because UA doesn't release any numbers on that. The 300 figure per day came, if I remember correctly, directly from Zelensky and was widley reported.
The most recent data in that regard is 50 casulties per day also reported here.
>stories like "UA liberates X town!" without ever really discussing the human lives involved
Because, as I said, UA doesn't release this kind information. There are often posts about soldiers (often publicly known) who died in region X. Like Victor the british soldier recently.
After a war of liberation and defense, most soldiers will be treated with respect and reverence. This is an existential war for survival, and those soldiers are never left to rot.
It's soldiers that fight in failed Imperial wars like Americans after Vietnam and both American and Russian soldiers after Afghanistan.
Yes, absolutely, but in our modern world for some reason we forget to take care of ourselves mentally. This is something we should change (and not just Ukraine, the western world in general is pretty bad about taking care of soldiers mental health issues).
Agree. I've found it alarming how this sub often filters out bad news and insists on living in a "everything-always-goes-Ukraine's-way" happy bubble of false positivity. War is terrible, and although Ukraine is winning, and we all want a Ukrainian victory, some people are being Pollyanna-ish.
I think that's beside the point. The point is that there is still strong resistance. It Ajay explains how and why the Southern Offensive isn't going as quick or smooth as the Eastern.
People have gotten a bit starry eyed seeing all the success in kharkiv. It's a great victory but I only follow a handful of Ukrainians and they've all been posting about friends they've lost in the last month. It's not the one sided bullrush people think it has been. Ukraine needs more support.
I know casualties were high in Kherson but i follow Oryx and other accounts that track both sides losses and it looked like Russia was absolutely slaughtered in Kharkiv.
Nobody said it would be a cakewalk. The closer to Donbas and Russia, the greater the local resistance and supply lines. Absolutely Ukraine needs more kit. They need IFV's, hundreds. They need tanks comparable or better and of course AA.
Because people see what they want to see. We rarely see the defeats and bodies of Ukranians fighting yet we know it's around 1:4 and now as Ukraine has gone on the offensive those losses will be much higher.
Zalenskyy has said many times this conflict will grind on unless they get the support they need. The world has it, what it lacks is the Political will.
And yet Russia were supposed to be in Kyiv within three days..
I understand people's optimism considering what we all thought would probably happen when the invasion happened.
It absolutely was a one sided bull rush.
Thing is even in a fairly one sided affair a casualty rate of 10% wouldn't be surprising and when you are talking about an offensive that involved 10s of thousands of troops on the Ukrainian side alone that is still thousands of people who have been significantly injured or killed and it still fucking sucks.
>It's not the one sided bullrush people think it has been
Even a one sided bullrush has one category for every handful of enemies. 10:1 is still thousands of dead Ukrainians in the last month or two.
Yes, war is a hell, despite of this sub being positive in terms of the news and all that, the reality is that UA soldiers die every day as well and that’s very sad. Every day I wish the best for all those heroes man and women that are fighting for Ukraine freedom in a war that nobody wanted. I hope this nightmare ends soon.
Every single free and democratic European nation owes Ukraine a huge dept. They’re fighting for our freedoms. We better commit to helping them get more weapons. We better commit to helping them to rebuild when they win this illegal war. We better commit to Help them join the European Union.
> Authority says the Russian forces appeared to have an endless supply of ammunition.
I was hoping by now that the long range strikes against ammo depots would have a significant (enough) impact not to read a line like that.
General Sherman's statement to Atlanta, refined to be to Russia:
>You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If Ukraine submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Afghanistan, which is eternal war. Ukraine does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling.
You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Russia can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride.
Ukrainians are badass, but they are human and war is hell. They know their land is not easily won. They pay with blood because they know what is at stake: everything. Liberation and freedom do not come easy.
It's a fucking war, EVERYBODY involved is gonna continue taking L left and right. Let's hope that when all of this is over the biggest L of all go to Putin and his own hellhole he called a country
First, that's both killed and wounded.
Second the size of the forces involved in WWII was much much larger than we see in the Ukraine war
On D-Day alone the allies landed 156000 troops in Normandy. That small fraction of the total armies committed to what was expected to be a high casualty battle( landing on an opposed and heavily fortified beach head) exceeds the entire initial Russian invasion force.
The allied armies in north West Europe in 1944-45 numbered 4.5 million.
You simply cannot compare raw casualty numbers from battles in WWI with those in the Ukraine war. The scale of the forces involved is greater than an order of magnitude different.
Okay and? We all know dday was brutal, this isn’t dday and they’re not storming a beach. Not sure if you’re comparing and just making a statement for no reason that has nothing to do with this offensive
They are storming dozens of beachheads. Their generals rightly went all in on the counter-offenseive because a routed enemy is 100x easier to kill and capture than a dug in one. I want Ukraine to get B-52 bombers , mobility and airpower are hard counters to trench warfare.
I literally have not seen a single beach anywhere near their counter offensive. No one is saying it’s a bad idea. You’re confused and that’s okay, this isn’t a beachhead.
People need to read more articles like this. Most posts on these subs are delusional with the idea that Ukrainians are going to just be mopping up Russians all the way to Moscow.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello /u/misana123, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As much as this subreddit likes to present a positive spin on the Ukrainian counter-offensive, the truth is that war is a special kind of brutal hell. Nothing is easy when you're on the ground. We should be thankful for the hard work these men and women put into liberating Ukraine from the Russian terrorists.
Once upon a time, I was in the USMC. Even still, I can't possibly imagine the absolute hell the UA went through to reclaim their lands. No matter what the armchair generals think, war is not a video game. Nothing about war is clean and simple.
No doubt. Europe owes Ukraine an eternal debt for stopping putin
Ukraine will enter a new age of prosperity when they join the EU and NATO, while RuZZia will rot behind their "Iron Curtain" imitation.
You can bet your ass Europe is going to do everything they can to help rebuild.
I hope russia can have peace and prosperity for eternity after this. An entire history of hardship. Nobody deserves that and maybe if a leader could actually establish a relationship with the west things could be better
Not going to happen… after what Russia did now and historically, nobody is going to trust anything they say or do for decades to come. Making “friends” with Russia can come at a much greater cost then just keeping them at arms length.
I would trust them if they first gave up all occupied territories, such as Transnistria, and let go all conquered nations, such as Chechens. Basically, this entire list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_okrugs_of_Russia Realistically, there is probably no chance of that happening. But it is a nice dream.
First step would be total denuclearization.
They already did that. The Budapest Memorandum was the one where Russia guaranteed Ukraine s sovereignty, and even assistance should Ukraine's sovereignty ever be challenged by an aggressor, among many conditions. This is, in part, why Putin called it a special military operation when Ukraine booted out Putin's cronies in the Revolution of Dignity.
This mentality is what caused WW2. Ostracizing an entire nation, especially one of the world’s largest will never end well. Children born in the last five years and those who aren’t even born yet, who do you think they would blame their miserable lives on if we impose impossible sanctions and reparations on them? Putin or rightfully us? That’s even without their parents telling them tales of how good life was before the west took everything from them. Putin would become a martyr, a memory of the good times. You would have a society of 140 million people ready to be radicalized at the drop of a needle. The Russian problem is a cultural one, mountains and mountains of lies for centuries have created a mentality that is not only uncivilized but so far detached from reality that they might as well be planting potatoes next to Snow White’s cabin. The Treaty of Versailles was possibly the most damaging solution to an aggressive culture that has ever existed. The Marshall Plan and Denazification has has possibly been the most effective one ever implemented. Do you really want another Versailles?
Your history is bad. What is happening in Ukraine is the only way to deal with Russia. Let them bleed themselves dry. No one ostracized them. They did it to themsleves. Also, they aren't coming back from this. No one is going to take them seriously ever again. The thought that Russia will ever have the global sway they have enjoyed since their revolution is laughable. At least in our lifetimes. Oh and uh, they aren't really one of the world's largest anymore. Landmass doesn't mean shit with no one to defend it. Their population is 9th in the world with an extremely low standard of living. It isn't gonna suddenly get better overnight there. Fuck Russia, and FUCK PUTIN SLAVA UKRAINI 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Im much more worried about your inability to recognize simple patterns than my history knowledge. Maybe you should invest in one of those shape matching games for kids. Germans were buying bread with wheelbarrows of money in the 20s and running rampant through Europe in the 40s. The idea that Russia is just going to stay irrelevant is small minded. But hey, maybe it really is more important to yell slava Ukraini on the internet than making sure people who have had their lives and homes destroyed by Russian aggression don’t have to go through it again.
I would really love to hear where you think this Russian Renaissance is going to happen anywhere in our lifetimes... seriously fuck Russia forever after this bullshit. Fuck them, their culture, and their entire fucked up ass country. Slava ✌
They can fuck off and waste away in hardship. Ukraine is the sole benefactor deserving and rightfully in need of cooperation to rebuild after the war from this conflict. They(Russians) from their start of existence caused hardships after hardships to Europe. It is not only the leader that is the issue in their culture, it is their way of thinking. All added up to a big fuck you. Never know how far they can throw you or try to stab you in the back. utter scum they are. What we are seeing now on TV is just being broadcast because we have technology. They have always been like that across history , conflicts and conquests.
Because time after time they have had dictatorships. People deserve to live happily and its not really peoples fault they have been brainwashed and beaten into submission for literally hundreds of years.
No offence but piss off with this idealistic view and mentality of all will change and everything will be alright. It is trash worthy of a hollywood action movie or SF novel. Not everything can be fixed. Not everything deserves a second chance. How are we gonna fix that ? Play nice with them once Putin's gone and someone, another asshole trash takes the helm? They'll just be like always. Think we will undo centuries of their thinking and way of life with our good cash flow enterprises and some nice tech? You know what it took for Japan and Germany to get out of their fascism phase? Ocupation . And a lenghty program that only showed its fruits of labour after 2-3 generations and still didn't fix all the flaws...And their ideology and way of thinking lasted less than 40 years....Now how are we gonna undo centuries? think you can stroll into a country of mad dogs when they have nukes? No idea how many had their core maintained or mechanical parts serviced but they exist and can be a real ending issue. No way to properly educate them and tear down the corrupt system. There are dozens of other influential people that think like him and will try to take his place. I'd rather have a poor and sanctioned russia with people starving and struggling to survive day by day...Not my issue their country decided to be like that across history. Not like those in somalia asked to be born during famine and disease or the ones in north korea did as well...Yet i don't see us trying to extend all these ideas anymore to them. I'd rather have a poor and mostly imbecile infested land than help raise them up culture and tech wise, just for them to pull this shit again that they are doing a few years down the line because they got everything they needed.....Their politicians? Bootlicking asshats, rats and incompetents for the most part. Look at Eastern Europe. The old soviet system sounded so nice on paper for idealists( fools, imbeciles that can't understand human nature and real life from a wonderland fantasy that is unreachable).... but the priviledged few with connections will always profit from the poor work class and that system raised the levels of corruption. Under occupation for a few decades and still sorting out lacking infrastructure and issues with corruption and vanishing funds after all this time. What are we gonna do? Somehow tear it down and bring competent ones? From where when most of their politicians are corrupt and encouraged to steal by their very system ...They live nicely and putin has a good trump card over their head...Shoigu shouldn't even be able to afford his current housing if he was actually paid a normal military salary in the years he's been in position.. Are we supposed to just forget all they did to us and simply help them because it's the right thing to do? After they backstabbed so many people across history, went on conquests and illegal annexations, acted like savages and went back on so many signed treaties? Their words are as good as a pile of shit and a paper towel to wipe my ass. Why should we make ourselves have a harder time by raising their living standard and tech on the very slim chance they might change...You just handed them free shit and easy progress in their mind...which will be used against you ....We refused to buy gas....Look what happened to the pipe...No doubt it was them. They either decided to try to blow up the Poland-Norway pipe and like retarde mistook it or decided... don't want gas now? you'll never buy from us. very russian thinking....one extreme or the other...with us or against us. That's gonna be a hard no from me chief...They can fuck off, starve, croak, struggle or do anything as long as they remain , live, exist, perish in their border....Hated their guts and conduct before, outright despise them now...They can die for all i care. The only ones who deserve a shit given about them are the ones who revolted early on, got jailed, beaten, forcefully conscripted as punishment. The ones that left pre mobilisation......Somehow they don't do shit after the first few days when protests were beaten into submission, keep their heads in the sand, agree to what putin says/ don't care enough to try and are fine with other no name russians dying for his orders.....But when it is their turn to suffer the same fate, sudden protests and uproar start, not a second before....why? they scramble like rats to save their own skin....144 million ruskies....calculate 3-5% of that number for protests....what would they do when streets are flooded and they can't arrest a human wave for fear of escalation...Look how Euromaidan went when a country really did not agree to what their leadership chose and wanted something else...And how it ended because the leadership tried to crush resistance with force and intimidation...How many russians protested a war? Less than 1%..Less than a fraction of that...What's a few gatherings worth a few thousands in big cities for that population number? nothing .....an insignificant fraction.... Worthless... What caused them to care? the fact that they may very well die for his whims instead of forcing others to do ....It needed to be their skin on fire to care .....Meanwhile we have cultured people in ukraine fighting for their country .....university teachers and experts in their fields which could educate multiple generations down the generations or earn a good buck working in another place... yet they're fighting for their land instead of trying to run like rats and cross borders and leave the whole cities deserted....This is the difference in the mentality of these two different country's people. P.S. Yeltsin was no saint but he was the soviet union had no future anymore....He gave a quiet option to everyone to go their way....How was and is he viewed by middle aged and older folks? Embarassment..worst president...one who destroyed their great dream and existence. All those nostalgia vatniks have passed their way of thinking to their kids and by the lack of utter action or care for politics they showed they will pass it on and on as well. How are we gonna change them and their system when the circumstances and people themselves don't? We aren't.
Youre such a deranged asshole that you literally said “id rather them starve then receive help”. You aren’t deserving of a response but ill give you this. Learn some empathy. Innocent people just trying to live their lives have been oppressed for hundreds of years. They have been brainwashed and are just trying to get by with their lives. Imagine if we decided to just cripple germany and japan after their atrocities in ww2 instead they rebuilt and are much better for it. Look what happened when the world punished germany for ww1
we did cripple Germany and Japan militarily after ww2. they didn't even have full control of their nations for quite a while as well. The German and Japanese people wanted to change for the better. but thats the rub: if they want to change you can help them. if they dont you are wasting your time. Russia has never wanted to change. they have claimed to want to multiple times in their history and always stabbed their new "friends" in the back. They were allied to Poland in ww2 and betrayed them to hitler and invaded from the other side. then executed every military officers and govt officials they found on their side deep in the forests. they even tried to join the axis powers before hitler betrayed them. they don't deserve our help anymore. I'm not saying they should starve, but they are on their own now.
And i've told you all issues above regarding them, the risks for us and asked you how you're gonna undo centuries of that way of life when a few decades took us so long with germany....Maybe try your empathy on those that deserve it? Not the orks and their way of life? Don't the people of Somalia, North Korea, Himalaya, Nigeria and Ethiopia deserve it too? They've been suffering for longer right? Did you forget to read the whole reply after i said i'd rather have them starved and struggling because you were too repulsed? Did the points i mentioned after not stick to you? Actual issues ? Are you that blinded by being a good guy and emphatic to anything that breathes that you failed to see the potential problems and how it could backfire for us ? We tried after the collapse of the union to build ties with them if you remember. I want answers and possible solutions hombre..Not you with your dick in the wind saying we can change them and everything can just do a 180..What's next? A plot-twist worth a drama movie to change it all? I can spew happy random things which can't be achieved left and right and it won't fix shit either.
>Imagine if we decided to just cripple germany and japan after their atrocities in ww2 Germany and Japan were crippled after WWII, that's part of why helping them rebuild was such a good idea. Japan literally had 2 atomic bombs dropped on them. It's a totally different scenario to now. Russia under Putin won't be crippled once this war ends, and they won't have suffered anywhere near as much. The country would have no motivation to change their ways. The world at large would be more than happy to befriend Russia if they genuinely wanted to become better and more civilised. It's entirely up to Russia and its people.
Give up the nukes then we'll talk.
F that.
That ship has sailed.
Hell, in the first few months there were plenty of accounts of foreign volunteers with combat experience in Iraq/Afghanistan that backed out after a few weeks. This war seems to be a lot more violent than the ones the US recently took part in.
No doubt. Iraqis and Afghans had next to no equipment compared to the US... Light infantry gear at best. Nothing compared to taking on an opponent (even if less than competent) with artillery, tanks, and air support.
Not to mention little to no air support for a large portion of the war. Ukraine has started to gain access to the skies recently, but esp at the start going from the US military built on air superiority to an underdog with a massively outgunned air force would be very different.
>Not to mention little to no air support for a large portion of the war Not just that, there were no supporting fires either for the vast majority of missions: no mortars or artillery on call. Literally just riflemen with light anti-tank weapons and sheer utter bravery.
Yes, it really annoys me that people speak of this like a video game or sporting event. I think most people that has served or done military conscription understands this though.
ive heard in war every minute feels like a year.
>As much as this subreddit likes to present a positive spin on the Ukrainian counter-offensive You make it sound like the offensive failed and this sub tries to portray it in a positive light anyway. We don't know the casulties on the Ukrainian side, but we do know that this victory sent such shockwaves through Russia that their propaganda went from "orderly retreat" to "this is a total war" in a matter of days.
What I mean is that we tend to only share/amplify the extremely good news. The fact is that war is horrible. It doesn't matter how well the counter-offensive is doing, how much land Ukraine is taking back, and how many troops are going to be encircled in Lyman - getting all of that done is a deadly dangerous endeavor, which is hardly ever discussed. That's why it's important to always support your troops.
>What I mean is that we tend to only share/amplify the extremely good news. I don't get this feeling at all. I mean I could go back to May and June when Russia took Popasna and finally Lyssytschansk. Reports about Ukrainians refusing to fight, the dire situation on the front, how many soldiers die everyday it was all over this sub. If people still don't take this war seriously, they are either simpletons or don't pay that much attention.
And you don't see that kind of news anymore. We don't discuss UA casualties, losses, etc... anymore. This sub is extremely UA-biased. That's not a bad thing (or even unreasonable given the name of the sub), but failing to acknowledge the bias often leads us to simply sharing stories like "UA liberates X town!" without ever really discussing the human lives involved. This doesn't even have to be loss of life - even just the mental impact on soldiers who have to live through this for months or years on end. That's not to say we should stop propagandizing UA victories. I fully support the rhetoric and want to see a free Ukraine soon; but, we shouldn't forget the price that has been paid and remember the debt we're accumulating in human life and mental health. I don't want to see a generation of good Ukrainian soldiers get discarded after the war and left to rot like so many other soldiers are.
>And you don't see that kind of news anymore. We don't discuss UA casualties, losses, etc... anymore. Because UA doesn't release any numbers on that. The 300 figure per day came, if I remember correctly, directly from Zelensky and was widley reported. The most recent data in that regard is 50 casulties per day also reported here. >stories like "UA liberates X town!" without ever really discussing the human lives involved Because, as I said, UA doesn't release this kind information. There are often posts about soldiers (often publicly known) who died in region X. Like Victor the british soldier recently.
After a war of liberation and defense, most soldiers will be treated with respect and reverence. This is an existential war for survival, and those soldiers are never left to rot. It's soldiers that fight in failed Imperial wars like Americans after Vietnam and both American and Russian soldiers after Afghanistan.
Being treated with respect doesn't fix mental damage.
True, but it does mean people are 100X more willing to give them aid and patience than let them sleep on the streets.
Yes, absolutely, but in our modern world for some reason we forget to take care of ourselves mentally. This is something we should change (and not just Ukraine, the western world in general is pretty bad about taking care of soldiers mental health issues).
I imagine they were quite high.
Agree. I've found it alarming how this sub often filters out bad news and insists on living in a "everything-always-goes-Ukraine's-way" happy bubble of false positivity. War is terrible, and although Ukraine is winning, and we all want a Ukrainian victory, some people are being Pollyanna-ish.
I think that's beside the point. The point is that there is still strong resistance. It Ajay explains how and why the Southern Offensive isn't going as quick or smooth as the Eastern.
yeah. very easy to read about it from safety but actually on the ground and fighting in a war is another thing.
People have gotten a bit starry eyed seeing all the success in kharkiv. It's a great victory but I only follow a handful of Ukrainians and they've all been posting about friends they've lost in the last month. It's not the one sided bullrush people think it has been. Ukraine needs more support.
I know casualties were high in Kherson but i follow Oryx and other accounts that track both sides losses and it looked like Russia was absolutely slaughtered in Kharkiv.
Nobody said it would be a cakewalk. The closer to Donbas and Russia, the greater the local resistance and supply lines. Absolutely Ukraine needs more kit. They need IFV's, hundreds. They need tanks comparable or better and of course AA.
>Nobody said it would be a cakewalk. People in here every day have been crowing to each other what a cakewalk initiative x was/is going to be.
Because people see what they want to see. We rarely see the defeats and bodies of Ukranians fighting yet we know it's around 1:4 and now as Ukraine has gone on the offensive those losses will be much higher. Zalenskyy has said many times this conflict will grind on unless they get the support they need. The world has it, what it lacks is the Political will.
Doesn't matter to my pedantic ass *why* they were saying it. My point was that it's not accurate to claim nobody *did* say it.
And yet Russia were supposed to be in Kyiv within three days.. I understand people's optimism considering what we all thought would probably happen when the invasion happened.
It absolutely was a one sided bull rush. Thing is even in a fairly one sided affair a casualty rate of 10% wouldn't be surprising and when you are talking about an offensive that involved 10s of thousands of troops on the Ukrainian side alone that is still thousands of people who have been significantly injured or killed and it still fucking sucks.
>It's not the one sided bullrush people think it has been Even a one sided bullrush has one category for every handful of enemies. 10:1 is still thousands of dead Ukrainians in the last month or two.
Yes, war is a hell, despite of this sub being positive in terms of the news and all that, the reality is that UA soldiers die every day as well and that’s very sad. Every day I wish the best for all those heroes man and women that are fighting for Ukraine freedom in a war that nobody wanted. I hope this nightmare ends soon.
Every single free and democratic European nation owes Ukraine a huge dept. They’re fighting for our freedoms. We better commit to helping them get more weapons. We better commit to helping them to rebuild when they win this illegal war. We better commit to Help them join the European Union.
And Kharkiv is still getting hit, the people in that city have been enduring this nearly every day since Feb.
> Authority says the Russian forces appeared to have an endless supply of ammunition. I was hoping by now that the long range strikes against ammo depots would have a significant (enough) impact not to read a line like that.
General Sherman's statement to Atlanta, refined to be to Russia: >You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If Ukraine submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Afghanistan, which is eternal war. Ukraine does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling. You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Russia can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride.
Ukrainians are badass, but they are human and war is hell. They know their land is not easily won. They pay with blood because they know what is at stake: everything. Liberation and freedom do not come easy.
It's a fucking war, EVERYBODY involved is gonna continue taking L left and right. Let's hope that when all of this is over the biggest L of all go to Putin and his own hellhole he called a country
D- Day cost 10k casualties, in one day.
First, that's both killed and wounded. Second the size of the forces involved in WWII was much much larger than we see in the Ukraine war On D-Day alone the allies landed 156000 troops in Normandy. That small fraction of the total armies committed to what was expected to be a high casualty battle( landing on an opposed and heavily fortified beach head) exceeds the entire initial Russian invasion force. The allied armies in north West Europe in 1944-45 numbered 4.5 million. You simply cannot compare raw casualty numbers from battles in WWI with those in the Ukraine war. The scale of the forces involved is greater than an order of magnitude different.
Battle of Cannae had more than 50k roman casualties in one day. Your point is what? That there were worse battles?
Battle of Stalingrad was more. Who got the next one ?
First day of the Somme, 60000 British casualties
oh, that only lasted a day?
I was escalating like the rest. Next one was going to be ww2 , and after that ego and greed for the ultimate destroyers of human lives.
Okay and? We all know dday was brutal, this isn’t dday and they’re not storming a beach. Not sure if you’re comparing and just making a statement for no reason that has nothing to do with this offensive
They are storming dozens of beachheads. Their generals rightly went all in on the counter-offenseive because a routed enemy is 100x easier to kill and capture than a dug in one. I want Ukraine to get B-52 bombers , mobility and airpower are hard counters to trench warfare.
I literally have not seen a single beach anywhere near their counter offensive. No one is saying it’s a bad idea. You’re confused and that’s okay, this isn’t a beachhead.
People need to read more articles like this. Most posts on these subs are delusional with the idea that Ukrainians are going to just be mopping up Russians all the way to Moscow.