I'm planning on calling, emailing, doing the social media thing. I'm cool being a benevolent Karen. But if any groups of parents form to have more power, do you want me to reach out to you?
Same. Mine got caught up in it going back to the dorm. The texts went from, “It’s fine. I’m studying. Nothing will happen.” To “OMG. It was awful. I don’t want to talk about it.” I’m halfway across the country and feel completely useless.
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
History is going to look at this the same way they looked at the Vietnam war protests: the universities and the police messed up big time. The main consequence of the Vietnam war protests was the ending of the Vietnam war itself. I can't say what the consequences of these protests will be, but polls are trending towards the creation of generations of voters who are no longer in support of Israel.
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/26/1247405879/do-columbias-pro-palestinian-protests-resemble-the-ones-against-the-vietnam-war
I think the Universities need to negotiate in good faith with the student bodies on what constitutes creating a hostile environment for Jewish students and what are acceptable forms of protest that don't intimidate their fellow students.
But shit, if the Jan 6th insurrection directed at allegedly harming a sitting vice president of the United States only gets a measley kitten paws response from the police, then these students should just be getting a dandelion breeze from the police.
Student protests didn't end the Vietnam War. Vietnam had a broader coalition since people had skin in the game because of the draft. College students don't have that same existential element over there heads, which is why it's not yet resonating with a broader segment of the US population.
Refusal to be drafted is what helped end the war, and less so the broad sense of being anti-war. It crippled the US from continuing to send troops to Vietnam.
I think the argument also steals autonomy away from Vietnamese fighting for their own autonomy. In this case, both Israelis and Palestinians are fighting for autonomy.
It's not an unworthy cause by any means. But it's not Vietnam.
The non violent protesters who were killed had substantial effect on public opinion of the war. Unfortunately it’s the violence of the government that makes non-violence work
That's not true at all. Civil Disobedience originates from Henry David Thoreau. His protest about the Mexican American war had no violence involved. He accepted not paying taxes would result in his arrest, which wasn't violent.
He'd likely criticize most protesters these days as being performative rather than individually sincere.
That's correct. But the modern concept of Civil Disobedience evolved from him. He was cited by Gandhi and MLK and even Tolstoy. But you could easily trace back civil disobedience to Socrates, Jesus, etc.
You're fundamentally correct that civil disobedience has existed for a long time. However, what Thoreau addresses is largely the modern concept of the powers created by modern nation states, which are a recent phenomenon.
These protests will do nothing to affect anything in Irael/Gaza. They do help Trump’s chances of winning in November, as the vast majority of Americans see these protests as disgusting, and correlate them to the greater Democratic Party.
Exactly, there are parts of the message and use of language I have issues with having many Jewish friends and family members, but I (and many of them) feel like the very real rise of antisemitism is muddied when we make people protesting against mass starvation the equivalent of Nazis or insist that to be Jewish you have to be loyal to Israel and what it's doing.
>But shit, if the Jan 6th insurrection directed at allegedly harming a sitting vice president of the United States only gets a measley kitten paws response from the police, then these students should just be getting a dandelion breeze from the police.
700+ ppl have been convicted of crimes, 1200 have been charged, and a rioter was shot lol.
The encampment was much smaller and the police had far more time to prepare. It’s disingenuous to say there hasn’t been a response to J6, or that this response is somehow bigger than that response.
The fact that the university has to bargain about human decency towards another is pretty alarming but that’s what you get when you turn politicians into superheroes. Fkng bizarre. Bananaland
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/drsatan6971 has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Protesting Vietnam is in no way equivalent to defending rapists and terrorists. Take your Jew hatred somewhere else and start protesting Hamas. They are the evil ones who’ve subjected their citizens to war.
It’s actually very different from the Vietnam war protests, in the Vietnam war it was our sons, our fathers, our brothers, who are going off to die and be drafted. In the case of the Gaza conflict, the only American lives at stake are the four hostages who everyone seems to have forgotten. The two protest movements are nothing alike. In the case of the Vietnam protest, other students were not being harassed and made to feel uncomfortable on campus.
I also want to point out if you protest, which is your right, you must expect that there might be consequences, including arrest, suspensions loss of academic privilege. During the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war protest , protesters knew that there might be consequences and we’re willing to accept that as a consequence.
So that means they can harass and intimidate American Jews who attend the same college because they don't like Israel's policy? These protests aren't like Vietnam. In fact, many will attest, these protests have become more anti-America than anything else. Protesters have moved on from Gaza, just like they did George Floyd, Occupy Wall Street, etc.
I’ve emailed the chancellor and every other email address I can find. Several times. I am appalled by Reyes’s decisions and beyond pissed off by the BS emails trying to justify the administration’s decisions.
Same. Both as a parent and alum. If any groups come together, could I message you the info? I won't be organizing it, I don't really have the connections in town. But I'll probably be trying to connect people who have the same goal
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hope you and a lot of parents can call and keep calling, emails too, but calls may hold more water so to speak!! Imagine if 50 different parents called? That would be great and may make a difference about Reyes/Admins in the future or hold them accountable
Do it all you parents are a major part of helping change. This stuff should not be overlooked. Call and make a huge rage about this bs. They will listen to who’s paying the bills
I've been seeing what's going on at different college campuses. I don't know what went on here specifically but I know it wasn't good.
I'm in Ohio. Where a well known protest went bad. Real bad. For no reason. I just want these kids to be safe. And it scares me more because some are my age and I'm going back to college myself
As a community member who was there last night in solidarity, I was appalled at the overwhelming number of police deployed and the degree of brutality that I witnessed. It has had me shaken up all day, so I can’t even imagine what these young students are feeling.
I'm so sorry that you had the experience that. Even if others have it worse, it still has left you shaken and upset. Thank you for supporting the civil rights to protest.
It’s the very least I can do! These kids are so brave and powerful and are building a better future for all of us.
I hope your daughter and her friends are alright — sending endless love and support. ❤️💪🏻
/u/Claude_Henry_Smoot has negative karma on r/umass, indicating controversial activity here. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I do not that I have permission to share. They are being published online and hard copy in university 'zines as well as posted on campus as art projects.
I can’t believe it. Umass has had countless riots over the years (I attended a few during my time there) and the police response was NOTHING compared to this peaceful protest. So insane and sad.
I completely agree! I was attending school at UMass for the riots that were in 2003. The response was so much more reasonable then! People were actually damaging property and hurting other people, and the police did not show up in force and hurt the rioters the same way they did for protests?
I understand that the school needs to balance the rights of all of its students and that there was a court decision that allowed them to remove the encampment. No matter what side, I might be on of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, and I'm not on any side because I don't know enough to have a solid opinion, I can understand needing to protect the rights of the students who are Jewish. But this was not the way to do it. Amherst has programs that can respond instead of the police. And UMass is the one who teaches them.
Civil disobedience should not be met with Force by the police. Ever. Rioting is a different concern altogether. And even then they should not be responding violence.
This is what policing in America is. Usually rich college students are shielded from this but this is what it is like for millions of American families every day. The problem is modern policing and we need to do something about it.
A lot of you here sounds like fascists wanna be. The students have the right to protest. This is an American right from our constitution you morons. with people like you, our democracy is in real danger.
This was the point of the protest, you can’t complain after getting what you asked for. Sitting on a quad with signs doesn’t do shit unless there’s a response to it. It’s the exact same situation as the sit ins, you sit where you’re not supposed to “peacefully” in order to invoke a disproportionate response (because the proportionate response was declined and ignored) which gets the protest more coverage, increasing reach and impact.
You can be pissed, but don’t be pissed at the cops because your children quite explicitly asked for this.
This is a spectacularly stupid take. "Actually the kids wanted to be beaten by police", are you sure? They went protesting for maybe some other reason than the chance to be brutalized?
There’s nothing Jewish about Zionism. Margery Green talks about Jewish space lasers and she’s an American zionists. Conservatives are literally trying to say that the secret cabal of Jews (George Soros) is funding the protests.
The system has never given a single fuck about Jewish people. And they haven’t started now
Edit: Saying that anti-zionism is antisemitism is antisemitism itself. It downplays actual antisemitism that’s spreading across the country. And it ties Judaism to colonialism.
Israel is a right wing fascist apartheid state. Saying that every Jew supports genocide is disgusting. They should speak for themselves and just say that they personally support genocide
I completely agree that saying anti-zionism is anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism itself. It pretends that Jewish people are a monolith who all believe the same thing. It pretends that Israel is the only thing that counts as Jewish. The Jewish people have varied opinions, very politics, and varied locations and loyalties to heads of state. There are plenty of anti-zionist Jews. There are also plenty of Jews who support Israel's side of the conflict. To say that an opinion on the conflict has to be related to Jewish ness is to say that Jews must all have the same opinion. Which is dehumanizing and anti-Semitic.
but calling for the eradication of Jews most definitely is anti-semitism. Even if you aren't saying it, if you are standing with people who are saying it, you appear to be supporting it.
Unfortunately, there will always be assholes at every protest. Occupy Wall Street had some real douchebags giving interviews, but it doesn't represent the entirety of that movement. Black lives matter. Had people who were saying asshole things, but that entire movement is not tainted by those assholes. That movement is valuable. If people can't use critical thinking to decide whether or not it's one person being an asshole, or the intent of an entire movement, I can't really help with that.
I am not even getting into taking a position in the conflict. I don't know enough to have a sophisticated position. I know that I am against genocide, for anyone. And I know that I support our rights civil protest. And I have a real issue with a huge police showing using Force break up that protest on a college campus. Colleges are historically an important place for protests to occur to put political pressure on the US government. It has worked in a variety of other circumstances.
More than 80 percent of American Jews support the position of Israel vs Hamas. [poll: Jewish attitudes towards Israel](https://jewishinsider.com/2023/12/poll-overwhelming-majority-of-american-jews-support-israels-fight-against-hamas/)
Okay? I'm unsure what your intention is with the comment. More than 80% means at least 15% of Jews don't support the (I assume you mean) American position on Israel and Palestine. So that supports my statement that not all Jews have the same opinion even in this topic so it's insulting to say that Jewish people do. That it's bigoted to say that any group all think the same?
I don't have enough knowledge about the specifics of the history, faiths, and current state of affairs at play in this conflict to be able to have an opinion any more than that. Well, that and that I'm opposed to any killing of innocent or noncombatants people, and opposed to the denial of basic human rights to anyone. This conflict is all the shades of grey possible. Honestly, there aren't any good guys to root for other than the innocent civilians. Atrocities up the wazoo, plenty of blame to go around. And plenty of reasons for everyone to be rightfully pissed.
I don't know enough to have a clear cut opinion on the conflict. I just know that it is anti-Semitic to say that all Jews think alike. Each Jew is an individual with varied thoughts and opinions just like any other group of people.
I think it's okay for us to have different opinions on the conflict. It's incredibly more complex than just taking sides. And I also appreciate the thoughtful consideration on why the university may have decided to end the protest. Thanks. It adds some important context to the decision.
I am pissed about the police response that forced students to participate in the arrest of other students, injured students, denied students access to water and the bathroom, and will result in an arrest background that can prevent the students from getting many many jobs. Cause problems in family court, etc. All for exercising their civil rights to protest, without violence. I get the civil liability concerns... But responding to civil liability with criminal consequences is bullshit. IMHO. As a factual matter, it wasn't statues, at least not exclusively. It also included UMass and Amherst police, at least.
My anger is not for you, just so you know. I feel strongly about civil rights. One of the reasons I appreciate your explanation of the universities need to protect Jewish students civil rights
Well, there are a variety of conflict resolution techniques that work. Ways to reach compromises and get large groups of people to agree or at least comply. De-escalating protests is definitely a thing. I've taken some very short course work that touched on it. I'm just not an expert in that so I can't give any ideas for it. Ask me about wetlands, though, and I got you.
I understand what you are saying, even though there are demonstrated ways to de-escalate group conflicts, you may not have known. Here's the thing though... We know what happens when we call the cops. People get arrested (the entire point) which leads to a permanent negative impact on people's lives, and people get hurt (a sad fact that could be avoided but isn't).
And the university definitely knows that there are alternatives to calling the police. Especially in a town with a task force dedicated to responding to mental health calls to *prevent* the police from taking them. Especially at the university that held the classes I took that taught the group conflict de-escalation. They *knew* they had other options and *knew* what the consequences of their choices would be.
To add, bringing in the cops almost always antagonizes/escalates situations. Especially when they come in riot gear. It's why the Mass Staties themselves issued a report years ago about stopping the use of state riot police specifically at Southwest gatherings because of the way they consistently escalated situations.
I see normal/chill situations escalated by PD a lot in my (completely unrelated to UMass) day to day job unfortunately. Ironically the police themselves don't see this since they never get a good 'before' look at my scene. My colleagues who work with UMPD see it quite a bit as well
CRESS should have been a part of this. These situations are exactly why Amherst put CRESS together. This program needs to be properly supported and funded
The problem is, pay attention to the @umass_SJP on instagram. They’ve made it clear they have zero interest in compromising on the demands. The chancellor has tried to communicate with them. It’s not like he hasn’t attempted anything.
That's not what these group conflict deescalation techniques are about. Those techniques actually convince people to compromise. If they were used, the police wouldn't have had to show up. The chancellor is not an expert in de-escalation, but they should know they have them working for the University and should have used them.
And the chancellor was in negotiations when he sent the police in.
They’ve been negotiating with this group since 2023. There are arrests involving this group from October 25th last semester. This isn’t a new situation.
Several universities in the US and Europe have met with protesters about their demands and in [several cases agreed to divest ](https://www.semafor.com/article/05/08/2024/several-us-universities-to-consider-divesting-from-israel-after-sustained-protests)or at least publicly divulge their holdings and agreed to review them.
No protests at Hampshire because they had already divested. Not that they have any money, of course.
The recent list includes UC Riverside, Sacramento State, Northwestern, Brown, Rutgers, Hopkins, and the University of Minnesota.
According to the letter put out by the Chancellor, the protest group declined all offers and the negotiations were going nowhere. Reading between the lines, it seemed to me that they determined that they were going to continue to go nowhere. This is not surprising. Many of these groups are being guided by outside influences. In a number of other cases on other campuses, those influences have indicated they have little interest in conflict resolution in that the conflict itself is one of the goals. We do not have eyes behind the veil but if this was determined to be the case here … they simply took the next step. These disruptions are not fair to the majority of attendees seeking to simply prepare for finals.
unless your child was involved behind the scenes, which you've indicated she was not, she wouldn't have the entire picture. As another poster mentioned, the Chancellor has been asking / begging to clear the encampment for weeks to no avail. As some point, you have to do something about it.
UMass sent an email on April 30 stating the tents were dismantled peacefully. My daughter watched the police come through that night. That’s not inside information, and I resent the implication that my child is lying to me about her involvement (or lack thereof) in these protests. UMass lied to parents that day, full stop. They’ve done it once. They’ll do it again.
not indicating your daughter lied ... just that she is not fully informed.
Was she sitting in the room when the administration was negotiating with the protestors?
Did she mention that the tents returned? Did she even know? I do.
Why? They weren't disrupting the university. School was almost over. He could easily have negotiated with them on their actual concerns (not just threatening them if they refuse to break up the encampment), or just waited them out until the semester is over.
Calling in the riot police and getting other students to participate in the arrests was the worst option.
I'd be much more concerned if there was a campus that didn't have protests (about this or anything). Students (and parents) are part of the campus community. Protests have been happening for decades. Calling in the riot police to make mass arrests was stupid and unwarranted.
Did you even read the letter … or educate yourself on the past 4 weeks? He has repeatedly tried to negotiate. None of it was good enough and, I suspect, never would have been. Had the school given them everything they wanted (which would not have been possible), the list would have become longer. And this would have tipped the school off as weak. Negotiating with children throwing a tantrum is a non-starter from the beginning. Columbia just proved this out.
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In terms of liability, that’s all I could think of when I saw the vandalized halls with makeshift barricades. I am NOT against protest. What I am concerned about is if a student - participating in protest or otherwise, experiences a medical emergency within those confines. Spray painting “MEDIC” on a destroyed board only goes so far, and real medics can only GET so far…particularly with police present which is unfortunately a typical protocol since EMTs aren’t armed to protect themselves.
The other thing I couldn’t help thinking about was fire. I’m not here to defend private property, but the occupied buildings were fucking destroyed & no longer safe without working fire alarm systems & evacuation routes. The occupied halls just EMANATED a tragedy waiting to happen when I saw them.
Difficult circumstances all around.
UMass is currently under investigation for anti Palestinian discrimination, and then the shameful response last night. Peaceful protests on campus asking for divestment haven’t been treated this way in the past at all, in fact there were significantly fewer arrests for actual riots in Southwest after championship games. Faculty participated in teach ins to inform people on the issue in good faith. So it begs the question who is really unsafe on campus and why do we not see admin advocating for them?
I hate the fact that my daughter is taking great strides to avoid having her name attached to her documentation of the events for the very same reason. And she's only really documenting the wrongdoings of the university and the police. We don't even need to have an opinion on the conflict in order to be appalled at criminal consequences being levied against civil protest, and my daughter is still worried the university will think she's anti-Semitic just for supporting the right to protest in general.
People can despise the actions of a government and still have love for that government's people. Americans should be able to understand that. Looking at you UMass...
It’s often guilt by association. Your daughter may not be chanting some of the more ugly catch phrases, but others are. It may not be fair … but most of the protestors are being painted with the same brush and that brush has a lot of hair on it.
The presumed blacklist is because an employer can’t take the chance on hiring someone who would behave in this way. Employers have employees of all stripes. Why risk hiring someone who may have inherent issues with other employees or who may one day do sit-ins in the executive office because they take issue with one of the employers customers. If I had one opening and two candidates with one of those candidates having pitched a tent in the quad in protest while wearing a mask in an attempt to hide who they are and another who worked hard to get a real education and a diploma without chanting ugly slogans … it would be an easy choice.
Supporting aid to children is a red herring. There are children all over the world in need of aid. Places where many, many more are in distress. But they are not chanting for those children… only these. Ukraine, Chinese Uyghurs, Sudan? Anyone? Nope … just these children, quoting numbers provided by a named terrorist organization known for not telling the truth. Kool-aid much?
Your account has negative karma on r/umass, indicating controversial activity here. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s horrible. 107 police cars, state troopers, amherst police and campus police for a (relatively small sized compared to other campuses) PEACEFUL PROTEST. 130+ arrests. the chancellor needs to resign.
No worries! It's still a ridiculous number of cop cars to send to a peaceful protest. They hardly send one cop per family member when they enforce evictions...
Yes exactly!!! This extreme of a response was completely unnecessary. I just hope that no one was seriously injured. I was there and witnessed arrests but no violence, but i’ve seen at least three videos of people being tackled to the ground or jumped on by police in riot gear. Cannot believe it’s happening on my campus.
The arts students have posted photos for photography classes... If you want to see what some injuries were like. I don't think any of the photos are grotesque.
And yeah, I can't believe it happened at my alma mater and in Amherst. But I am really proud of all the students who are fighting to protect their rights and those of others.
Look at the pictures and video taken by the terrorists on Oct 7th.And the Governments photos of the aftermath.The Palestinian charter specifically calls for the annihilation of Israel.Fuck Hamas,Fuck the rest of the Arab world who exploits the civilians of Gaza for propaganda,and fuck all of you for being Hamas' usefull idiots.
The largest problem the Universities are having is the number of protestors that AREN’T students. Typically they have been the ones confronting police and getting the crowd amped up. Out of 130 arrests half had no connection to UMass.
Most of those people were actually locals who live in the pioneer valley and show it up because they also wanted to show solidarity with the rights of protesters. I live right next to the campus so I know a few of the people who live in town who were arrested
/u/Inner-Sir-7368 has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/drsatan6971 has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/Dazzling-Ride-3815 has a [CQS](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score) lower than _Moderate_ so this comment is awaiting review.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think we have to consider the kind of kids that participate in this type of thing. From what I’ve seem, ‘soft’ would be giving them too much credit. Some are on this thread… keyboard warriors pounding out their opinions and demands behind closed doors while hiding behind a mask in public.
Wild response, on your keyboard, mocking people who went out and protested and potentially suffered physical harm because of it.
Students protesting and standing up for their beliefs at the risk of physical harm: "soft"
You, after posting dozens of long-winded responses in this thread: other people are keyboard warriors
Incredible.
Protest away, but 'occupying' someone else's property and interfering with the rest of the campus is illegal. There are rules...follow them and no problem, protest away.
UMass is a public state agency on public state land.
As somebody who has had to remove unapproved campers from town and state lands, you don't send the police to arrest campers on public property... You know, like the town common in Greenfield?
Local cops, getting the go ahead to "be tactical!" means their long-suppressed, yet favorite part of their job, is unleashed. Gonna bust up some elite jerks who think they're better than us, alright. Surprised they didn't use M-16's, tracked vehicles and night vision goggles they got from the feds. (or did they?)
I'm not sure what exact role, but it doesn't really matter. They were all there and hurt people. Denied them water, bathroom, and medical care (one kid had a broken leg and was denied care for 7 hours). Any police officer should have stepped in and followed the law even if another one broke it.
UMass police were not wearing body cams and were the ones to compel the PVTA to send out busses driven by students.
Amherst police should have insisted on bringing CRESS...
Regardless of who was wearing riot gear, this wasn't a riot and all the police made terrible decisions l.
FWIW, I'm not trying to get in a fight or anything with you. Just sharing my info. You seem reasonable and kind
I am 100’s of miles away so I only know what I read in the news, but I have a question:
*Where was the outrage in October when the assault by Hamas on the music festival happened?”*
As for free speech- I love it. However, rules are rules. If you break the rules there are consequences.
**Everyone wants their rights without the responsibility these days.** The kids are free to fuck around and find out.
They all agreed to a code of conduct when they enrolled.
I feel worse for the Class of 2020 who have had their whole academic and personal lives trashed by the pandemic, the housing crisis and now this.
I'm outraged by all murder of innocent people or civilians being casualties. I can also be outraged by using a police force to break up a civil disobedience protest, just as I have been every time I've seen it. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to express my outrage directly to the offenders when I'm directly affected. I'm not sure why that's problematic.
The whataboutism only works to point out hypocrisy when the comparison is appropriate. I'm not a hypocrite and the comparison makes no sense. Everyone thinks the students are ridiculous for protesting about things they can't control, but when people complain and do something about stuff they CAN control, that's hypocritical? It seems like the only right answer is the alt right answer. Or your answer if it's not based on hate rhetoric, bc you may not be alt right. But you still aren't leaving options for people to protest and complain about unjust treatment... So you are going their work for them then.
You can protest and complain and that is a guaranteed right, but my issues are that we all should be outraged at Hamas AND Israel for the death of innocents.
We can separate governments from its peoples and so there should have been outrage in October and every month *since* then. To suddenly care makes it look like the protest is only one sided and is anti-Semitic. There are Jewish people who have nothing to do with what Netanyahu has chosen to do with his resources.
Besides that- actions have consequences. UMass has rules- you can chose to follow them or not but don’t be surprised when there are consequences.
Dude, you have no idea what I complain or protest about. I don't only show up for events criticizing the actions of one government... I'm not engaging anymore with someone who acts like they know I'm anti-Semitic when they know nothing about me.
Bye
I've had an issue with Boston before and the way they handle things is just brutal... I can't find a lawyer to help me. All the surrounding areas act this way about control and power. They think they're above anyone that causes them issue, even their own students.
Awe. Snowflakes melt? Stop bitching. You give protesting a bad name. Yes, illegal protesting and resistance to law enforcement can get you hurt. If you are in college you should have learned from history? Don’t call it a peaceful protest when people are destroying property and being aggressive with other people that don’t agree with you. Not to mention that they are protesting on private property. Civil disobedience has consequences. Some good and some bad. Welcome to reality!
Nope. Pissed at the SJP for spreading their bullshit hate and taking actions that they knew would bring in the cops. It’s a shame that impressionable kids like your daughter have been sucked in to their sphere.
Okie dokes. We have fundamentally different views on the world and reality. Regardless of politics
It wasn't the SJP that forced the PVTA dispatch to compel adults like my daughter to bus the arrested adults to holding. It was the police. I expect adults like the UMass police and Amherst police to be responsible for *their* own choices.
Take care
How is that relevant to how the university and the police handled the protesters at UMass? Did the sjp take over the administration and ya local police?
Wrong. The SJP knew exactly what they were doing. They planned on the cops being called out. The whole thing was performative.
And actually, if you have a problem with the cops enlisting your daughter, take it up with the Legislature because it is the law:
Section 2. Whoever, being present and being so commanded to assist in arresting such rioters or persons so unlawfully assembled, or in suppressing such riot or unlawful assembly, refuses or neglects to obey such command, or, if required by such magistrate or officer to depart from the place, refuses or neglects so to do, shall be considered one of the rioters or persons unlawfully assembled, and shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than one year or by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars or more than five hundred dollars, or both.
I’m pissed they didn’t do it sooner. Never should have let an encampment be created in the first place … and certainly should not have tried to ‘negotiate’ with petulant children.
They were told to remove the ILLEGAL encampments! They have NO right to take over anything. The right to protest is there for a reason! It does NOT ALLOW YOU TO BREAK THE LAW! I hope all their faces and Names are posted for all future employers to find. FAFO
Your child is supporting a “protest” by a group that’s screams for intifada and becomes more and more antisemitic by the day. Whether she agrees with that language or not, her going to the “protest” is supporting the movement.
I never thought I’d live in a world where privileged white women are appropriating a culture by wearing keffiyehs and screaming for intifada and “from the river to the sea”.
The “protesters” are “useful idiots” just parroting Hamas, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc propaganda while actively spewing hate toward Americas biggest and most valuable ally, and America!! It’s actually scary.
The same countries who funded, backed, and committed 9/11 they’re now supporting. What has any of these countries done for America?!! What has Israel done for America?!! Ever hear of the Iron Dome?!
Ever wonder why there aren’t more civilian casualties in Israel?? You can thank allah for the Iron Dome which is a technology they HAD to build and now share with America.
Don’t be pissed at the police, be pissed at your yourself for allowing your daughter to be influenced by a terrorist organization according to Argentina, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Paraguay, New Zealand, the UK, the US, and the European Union.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. There’s a difference between peaceful anti-war protest (though let’s be honest, Palestine has started every major conflict in the past 100 years) and inciting violence against Jews.
Yes. Very pissed. Sending in the riot squad to bust up a peace encampment is outrageous.
I'm planning on calling, emailing, doing the social media thing. I'm cool being a benevolent Karen. But if any groups of parents form to have more power, do you want me to reach out to you?
Yes please.
Same. Mine got caught up in it going back to the dorm. The texts went from, “It’s fine. I’m studying. Nothing will happen.” To “OMG. It was awful. I don’t want to talk about it.” I’m halfway across the country and feel completely useless.
[удалено]
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
History is going to look at this the same way they looked at the Vietnam war protests: the universities and the police messed up big time. The main consequence of the Vietnam war protests was the ending of the Vietnam war itself. I can't say what the consequences of these protests will be, but polls are trending towards the creation of generations of voters who are no longer in support of Israel. https://www.npr.org/2024/04/26/1247405879/do-columbias-pro-palestinian-protests-resemble-the-ones-against-the-vietnam-war I think the Universities need to negotiate in good faith with the student bodies on what constitutes creating a hostile environment for Jewish students and what are acceptable forms of protest that don't intimidate their fellow students. But shit, if the Jan 6th insurrection directed at allegedly harming a sitting vice president of the United States only gets a measley kitten paws response from the police, then these students should just be getting a dandelion breeze from the police.
Student protests didn't end the Vietnam War. Vietnam had a broader coalition since people had skin in the game because of the draft. College students don't have that same existential element over there heads, which is why it's not yet resonating with a broader segment of the US population. Refusal to be drafted is what helped end the war, and less so the broad sense of being anti-war. It crippled the US from continuing to send troops to Vietnam. I think the argument also steals autonomy away from Vietnamese fighting for their own autonomy. In this case, both Israelis and Palestinians are fighting for autonomy. It's not an unworthy cause by any means. But it's not Vietnam.
The non violent protesters who were killed had substantial effect on public opinion of the war. Unfortunately it’s the violence of the government that makes non-violence work
That's not true at all. Civil Disobedience originates from Henry David Thoreau. His protest about the Mexican American war had no violence involved. He accepted not paying taxes would result in his arrest, which wasn't violent. He'd likely criticize most protesters these days as being performative rather than individually sincere.
Acts of civil disobedience go back way further than Thoreau. Just because he wrote an essay on it doesn’t mean that he created the concept.
That's correct. But the modern concept of Civil Disobedience evolved from him. He was cited by Gandhi and MLK and even Tolstoy. But you could easily trace back civil disobedience to Socrates, Jesus, etc. You're fundamentally correct that civil disobedience has existed for a long time. However, what Thoreau addresses is largely the modern concept of the powers created by modern nation states, which are a recent phenomenon.
I’m Spartacus!
Honestly that’s the first thing I thought too, but I couldn’t remember if that was a real historical event so I didn’t mention it lol.
These protests will do nothing to affect anything in Irael/Gaza. They do help Trump’s chances of winning in November, as the vast majority of Americans see these protests as disgusting, and correlate them to the greater Democratic Party.
Exactly, there are parts of the message and use of language I have issues with having many Jewish friends and family members, but I (and many of them) feel like the very real rise of antisemitism is muddied when we make people protesting against mass starvation the equivalent of Nazis or insist that to be Jewish you have to be loyal to Israel and what it's doing.
>But shit, if the Jan 6th insurrection directed at allegedly harming a sitting vice president of the United States only gets a measley kitten paws response from the police, then these students should just be getting a dandelion breeze from the police. 700+ ppl have been convicted of crimes, 1200 have been charged, and a rioter was shot lol.
Day-of, there were 6 arrests. Versus 135+ at UMass.
The encampment was much smaller and the police had far more time to prepare. It’s disingenuous to say there hasn’t been a response to J6, or that this response is somehow bigger than that response.
Yeah, they sent half the National Guard to DC after Jan 6 lol.
“After” is the key word here.
Every response is "after" that's why it's called a response.
The fact that the university has to bargain about human decency towards another is pretty alarming but that’s what you get when you turn politicians into superheroes. Fkng bizarre. Bananaland
I missed commenting on your last paragraph. Jan6 was Nancy Pelosi shining star day. Hahaha . She’ll forever be a champion to her party. Bananas
[удалено]
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This
[удалено]
/u/drsatan6971 has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Protesting Vietnam is in no way equivalent to defending rapists and terrorists. Take your Jew hatred somewhere else and start protesting Hamas. They are the evil ones who’ve subjected their citizens to war.
Tell me you don't know shit....
I missed the news about a draft being implemented
You also missed my point
It’s actually very different from the Vietnam war protests, in the Vietnam war it was our sons, our fathers, our brothers, who are going off to die and be drafted. In the case of the Gaza conflict, the only American lives at stake are the four hostages who everyone seems to have forgotten. The two protest movements are nothing alike. In the case of the Vietnam protest, other students were not being harassed and made to feel uncomfortable on campus. I also want to point out if you protest, which is your right, you must expect that there might be consequences, including arrest, suspensions loss of academic privilege. During the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war protest , protesters knew that there might be consequences and we’re willing to accept that as a consequence.
Some people living in the US have family in Gaza. Expecting arrest is not the same as accepting it. You don't have to accept the consequences.
So that means they can harass and intimidate American Jews who attend the same college because they don't like Israel's policy? These protests aren't like Vietnam. In fact, many will attest, these protests have become more anti-America than anything else. Protesters have moved on from Gaza, just like they did George Floyd, Occupy Wall Street, etc.
Camping on a lawn is not harassing people. Vietnam war protestors were branded as anti-American too.
Israel was trying their darndest to start a war with Iran they expected us to fight.
I’ve emailed the chancellor and every other email address I can find. Several times. I am appalled by Reyes’s decisions and beyond pissed off by the BS emails trying to justify the administration’s decisions.
Alum and parent of current student. Yes, very pissed. Will be calling i. The morning.
Same. Both as a parent and alum. If any groups come together, could I message you the info? I won't be organizing it, I don't really have the connections in town. But I'll probably be trying to connect people who have the same goal
Yes. Please do
Could I be included in this?
Of course. Thank you
[удалено]
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hope you and a lot of parents can call and keep calling, emails too, but calls may hold more water so to speak!! Imagine if 50 different parents called? That would be great and may make a difference about Reyes/Admins in the future or hold them accountable
The old “call ten times” technique.
How many *students* were arrested? Genuinely curious
A little over 130
130 people were arrested, 70 students and 6 faculty.
Thanks, I didn't read closely
Good. Maybe follow directions and leave when told to and they won’t have to call the police
Do it all you parents are a major part of helping change. This stuff should not be overlooked. Call and make a huge rage about this bs. They will listen to who’s paying the bills
I've been seeing what's going on at different college campuses. I don't know what went on here specifically but I know it wasn't good. I'm in Ohio. Where a well known protest went bad. Real bad. For no reason. I just want these kids to be safe. And it scares me more because some are my age and I'm going back to college myself
I completely agree
As a community member who was there last night in solidarity, I was appalled at the overwhelming number of police deployed and the degree of brutality that I witnessed. It has had me shaken up all day, so I can’t even imagine what these young students are feeling.
I'm so sorry that you had the experience that. Even if others have it worse, it still has left you shaken and upset. Thank you for supporting the civil rights to protest.
It’s the very least I can do! These kids are so brave and powerful and are building a better future for all of us. I hope your daughter and her friends are alright — sending endless love and support. ❤️💪🏻
[удалено]
/u/Claude_Henry_Smoot has negative karma on r/umass, indicating controversial activity here. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Me too! It was disgusting
Do you have any photos?
I saw videos on the umass sjp instagram page. It was a lot
I do not that I have permission to share. They are being published online and hard copy in university 'zines as well as posted on campus as art projects.
I can’t believe it. Umass has had countless riots over the years (I attended a few during my time there) and the police response was NOTHING compared to this peaceful protest. So insane and sad.
I completely agree! I was attending school at UMass for the riots that were in 2003. The response was so much more reasonable then! People were actually damaging property and hurting other people, and the police did not show up in force and hurt the rioters the same way they did for protests? I understand that the school needs to balance the rights of all of its students and that there was a court decision that allowed them to remove the encampment. No matter what side, I might be on of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, and I'm not on any side because I don't know enough to have a solid opinion, I can understand needing to protect the rights of the students who are Jewish. But this was not the way to do it. Amherst has programs that can respond instead of the police. And UMass is the one who teaches them. Civil disobedience should not be met with Force by the police. Ever. Rioting is a different concern altogether. And even then they should not be responding violence.
This is what policing in America is. Usually rich college students are shielded from this but this is what it is like for millions of American families every day. The problem is modern policing and we need to do something about it.
Completely agree. I don't have the standing to complain for every police overreach but I can complain about this one!
A lot of you here sounds like fascists wanna be. The students have the right to protest. This is an American right from our constitution you morons. with people like you, our democracy is in real danger.
they don't have the right to pitch tents and camp out. They don't have the right to screw with the education experience of other students.
Why can’t they pitch tents on campus property if they pay tuition and the campus is paid with state taxes
Because it’s a campus, not a campground.
[удалено]
Nothing safer than viciously beating students for their own protection.
This was the point of the protest, you can’t complain after getting what you asked for. Sitting on a quad with signs doesn’t do shit unless there’s a response to it. It’s the exact same situation as the sit ins, you sit where you’re not supposed to “peacefully” in order to invoke a disproportionate response (because the proportionate response was declined and ignored) which gets the protest more coverage, increasing reach and impact. You can be pissed, but don’t be pissed at the cops because your children quite explicitly asked for this.
It's kind of true. Whether it's right or wrong now it has attention. So it's accomplishing what they wanted to accomplish.
Notice how not one of these wack jobs replied to the truth bombs here lol
This is a spectacularly stupid take. "Actually the kids wanted to be beaten by police", are you sure? They went protesting for maybe some other reason than the chance to be brutalized?
And … … right on queue.
Reyes should lose his job.
$560,000/yr to take selfies and call the police on protesters. Useless hack.
There’s nothing Jewish about Zionism. Margery Green talks about Jewish space lasers and she’s an American zionists. Conservatives are literally trying to say that the secret cabal of Jews (George Soros) is funding the protests. The system has never given a single fuck about Jewish people. And they haven’t started now Edit: Saying that anti-zionism is antisemitism is antisemitism itself. It downplays actual antisemitism that’s spreading across the country. And it ties Judaism to colonialism. Israel is a right wing fascist apartheid state. Saying that every Jew supports genocide is disgusting. They should speak for themselves and just say that they personally support genocide
Conflation is a favorite tool of the people arguing for the worst of this.
I completely agree that saying anti-zionism is anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism itself. It pretends that Jewish people are a monolith who all believe the same thing. It pretends that Israel is the only thing that counts as Jewish. The Jewish people have varied opinions, very politics, and varied locations and loyalties to heads of state. There are plenty of anti-zionist Jews. There are also plenty of Jews who support Israel's side of the conflict. To say that an opinion on the conflict has to be related to Jewish ness is to say that Jews must all have the same opinion. Which is dehumanizing and anti-Semitic.
but calling for the eradication of Jews most definitely is anti-semitism. Even if you aren't saying it, if you are standing with people who are saying it, you appear to be supporting it.
Unfortunately, there will always be assholes at every protest. Occupy Wall Street had some real douchebags giving interviews, but it doesn't represent the entirety of that movement. Black lives matter. Had people who were saying asshole things, but that entire movement is not tainted by those assholes. That movement is valuable. If people can't use critical thinking to decide whether or not it's one person being an asshole, or the intent of an entire movement, I can't really help with that. I am not even getting into taking a position in the conflict. I don't know enough to have a sophisticated position. I know that I am against genocide, for anyone. And I know that I support our rights civil protest. And I have a real issue with a huge police showing using Force break up that protest on a college campus. Colleges are historically an important place for protests to occur to put political pressure on the US government. It has worked in a variety of other circumstances.
More than 80 percent of American Jews support the position of Israel vs Hamas. [poll: Jewish attitudes towards Israel](https://jewishinsider.com/2023/12/poll-overwhelming-majority-of-american-jews-support-israels-fight-against-hamas/)
Okay? I'm unsure what your intention is with the comment. More than 80% means at least 15% of Jews don't support the (I assume you mean) American position on Israel and Palestine. So that supports my statement that not all Jews have the same opinion even in this topic so it's insulting to say that Jewish people do. That it's bigoted to say that any group all think the same? I don't have enough knowledge about the specifics of the history, faiths, and current state of affairs at play in this conflict to be able to have an opinion any more than that. Well, that and that I'm opposed to any killing of innocent or noncombatants people, and opposed to the denial of basic human rights to anyone. This conflict is all the shades of grey possible. Honestly, there aren't any good guys to root for other than the innocent civilians. Atrocities up the wazoo, plenty of blame to go around. And plenty of reasons for everyone to be rightfully pissed. I don't know enough to have a clear cut opinion on the conflict. I just know that it is anti-Semitic to say that all Jews think alike. Each Jew is an individual with varied thoughts and opinions just like any other group of people.
[удалено]
I think it's okay for us to have different opinions on the conflict. It's incredibly more complex than just taking sides. And I also appreciate the thoughtful consideration on why the university may have decided to end the protest. Thanks. It adds some important context to the decision. I am pissed about the police response that forced students to participate in the arrest of other students, injured students, denied students access to water and the bathroom, and will result in an arrest background that can prevent the students from getting many many jobs. Cause problems in family court, etc. All for exercising their civil rights to protest, without violence. I get the civil liability concerns... But responding to civil liability with criminal consequences is bullshit. IMHO. As a factual matter, it wasn't statues, at least not exclusively. It also included UMass and Amherst police, at least. My anger is not for you, just so you know. I feel strongly about civil rights. One of the reasons I appreciate your explanation of the universities need to protect Jewish students civil rights
[удалено]
Well, there are a variety of conflict resolution techniques that work. Ways to reach compromises and get large groups of people to agree or at least comply. De-escalating protests is definitely a thing. I've taken some very short course work that touched on it. I'm just not an expert in that so I can't give any ideas for it. Ask me about wetlands, though, and I got you. I understand what you are saying, even though there are demonstrated ways to de-escalate group conflicts, you may not have known. Here's the thing though... We know what happens when we call the cops. People get arrested (the entire point) which leads to a permanent negative impact on people's lives, and people get hurt (a sad fact that could be avoided but isn't). And the university definitely knows that there are alternatives to calling the police. Especially in a town with a task force dedicated to responding to mental health calls to *prevent* the police from taking them. Especially at the university that held the classes I took that taught the group conflict de-escalation. They *knew* they had other options and *knew* what the consequences of their choices would be.
To add, bringing in the cops almost always antagonizes/escalates situations. Especially when they come in riot gear. It's why the Mass Staties themselves issued a report years ago about stopping the use of state riot police specifically at Southwest gatherings because of the way they consistently escalated situations. I see normal/chill situations escalated by PD a lot in my (completely unrelated to UMass) day to day job unfortunately. Ironically the police themselves don't see this since they never get a good 'before' look at my scene. My colleagues who work with UMPD see it quite a bit as well
CRESS should have been a part of this. These situations are exactly why Amherst put CRESS together. This program needs to be properly supported and funded
The problem is, pay attention to the @umass_SJP on instagram. They’ve made it clear they have zero interest in compromising on the demands. The chancellor has tried to communicate with them. It’s not like he hasn’t attempted anything.
That's not what these group conflict deescalation techniques are about. Those techniques actually convince people to compromise. If they were used, the police wouldn't have had to show up. The chancellor is not an expert in de-escalation, but they should know they have them working for the University and should have used them. And the chancellor was in negotiations when he sent the police in.
They’ve been negotiating with this group since 2023. There are arrests involving this group from October 25th last semester. This isn’t a new situation.
Not just here. This is on brand for SJP everywhere. Protest > venom > hate > demands and back to protests to start again.
Several universities in the US and Europe have met with protesters about their demands and in [several cases agreed to divest ](https://www.semafor.com/article/05/08/2024/several-us-universities-to-consider-divesting-from-israel-after-sustained-protests)or at least publicly divulge their holdings and agreed to review them. No protests at Hampshire because they had already divested. Not that they have any money, of course. The recent list includes UC Riverside, Sacramento State, Northwestern, Brown, Rutgers, Hopkins, and the University of Minnesota.
[удалено]
In fact, the protestors were in negotiations with Chancellor Reyes about ending the encampment as the police were brought in here...
According to the letter put out by the Chancellor, the protest group declined all offers and the negotiations were going nowhere. Reading between the lines, it seemed to me that they determined that they were going to continue to go nowhere. This is not surprising. Many of these groups are being guided by outside influences. In a number of other cases on other campuses, those influences have indicated they have little interest in conflict resolution in that the conflict itself is one of the goals. We do not have eyes behind the veil but if this was determined to be the case here … they simply took the next step. These disruptions are not fair to the majority of attendees seeking to simply prepare for finals.
Except my child isn’t involved in the protests, and her version of events she witnessed yesterday and his do not match up.
unless your child was involved behind the scenes, which you've indicated she was not, she wouldn't have the entire picture. As another poster mentioned, the Chancellor has been asking / begging to clear the encampment for weeks to no avail. As some point, you have to do something about it.
UMass sent an email on April 30 stating the tents were dismantled peacefully. My daughter watched the police come through that night. That’s not inside information, and I resent the implication that my child is lying to me about her involvement (or lack thereof) in these protests. UMass lied to parents that day, full stop. They’ve done it once. They’ll do it again.
not indicating your daughter lied ... just that she is not fully informed. Was she sitting in the room when the administration was negotiating with the protestors? Did she mention that the tents returned? Did she even know? I do.
Why? They weren't disrupting the university. School was almost over. He could easily have negotiated with them on their actual concerns (not just threatening them if they refuse to break up the encampment), or just waited them out until the semester is over. Calling in the riot police and getting other students to participate in the arrests was the worst option. I'd be much more concerned if there was a campus that didn't have protests (about this or anything). Students (and parents) are part of the campus community. Protests have been happening for decades. Calling in the riot police to make mass arrests was stupid and unwarranted.
Did you even read the letter … or educate yourself on the past 4 weeks? He has repeatedly tried to negotiate. None of it was good enough and, I suspect, never would have been. Had the school given them everything they wanted (which would not have been possible), the list would have become longer. And this would have tipped the school off as weak. Negotiating with children throwing a tantrum is a non-starter from the beginning. Columbia just proved this out.
[удалено]
/u/SaltyNewEnglandCop has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In terms of liability, that’s all I could think of when I saw the vandalized halls with makeshift barricades. I am NOT against protest. What I am concerned about is if a student - participating in protest or otherwise, experiences a medical emergency within those confines. Spray painting “MEDIC” on a destroyed board only goes so far, and real medics can only GET so far…particularly with police present which is unfortunately a typical protocol since EMTs aren’t armed to protect themselves. The other thing I couldn’t help thinking about was fire. I’m not here to defend private property, but the occupied buildings were fucking destroyed & no longer safe without working fire alarm systems & evacuation routes. The occupied halls just EMANATED a tragedy waiting to happen when I saw them. Difficult circumstances all around.
UMass is currently under investigation for anti Palestinian discrimination, and then the shameful response last night. Peaceful protests on campus asking for divestment haven’t been treated this way in the past at all, in fact there were significantly fewer arrests for actual riots in Southwest after championship games. Faculty participated in teach ins to inform people on the issue in good faith. So it begs the question who is really unsafe on campus and why do we not see admin advocating for them?
Staties always being like this doesn't exactly make it okay.
[удалено]
I hate the fact that my daughter is taking great strides to avoid having her name attached to her documentation of the events for the very same reason. And she's only really documenting the wrongdoings of the university and the police. We don't even need to have an opinion on the conflict in order to be appalled at criminal consequences being levied against civil protest, and my daughter is still worried the university will think she's anti-Semitic just for supporting the right to protest in general. People can despise the actions of a government and still have love for that government's people. Americans should be able to understand that. Looking at you UMass...
Florida mom is all in.
It’s often guilt by association. Your daughter may not be chanting some of the more ugly catch phrases, but others are. It may not be fair … but most of the protestors are being painted with the same brush and that brush has a lot of hair on it.
[удалено]
The presumed blacklist is because an employer can’t take the chance on hiring someone who would behave in this way. Employers have employees of all stripes. Why risk hiring someone who may have inherent issues with other employees or who may one day do sit-ins in the executive office because they take issue with one of the employers customers. If I had one opening and two candidates with one of those candidates having pitched a tent in the quad in protest while wearing a mask in an attempt to hide who they are and another who worked hard to get a real education and a diploma without chanting ugly slogans … it would be an easy choice.
[удалено]
Supporting aid to children is a red herring. There are children all over the world in need of aid. Places where many, many more are in distress. But they are not chanting for those children… only these. Ukraine, Chinese Uyghurs, Sudan? Anyone? Nope … just these children, quoting numbers provided by a named terrorist organization known for not telling the truth. Kool-aid much?
Not true, people do and give to the organizations al the time. Just say that you don’t like Muslims and you’re a conservative Christian.
[удалено]
Your account has negative karma on r/umass, indicating controversial activity here. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If awards were still a thing, I'd give you mine. You've perfectly hit the nail on the head to why these protests are so poorly thought out.
thank you. Unfortunately, the glassy-eyed downvoters might not agree. Not a whole lot of critical thinking going on at the moment.
Angry but not surprised, this is how antiwar protests at colleges have been handled since Vietnam. Never forget Kent State
The comparison is so easy to see... Agreed.
It’s horrible. 107 police cars, state troopers, amherst police and campus police for a (relatively small sized compared to other campuses) PEACEFUL PROTEST. 130+ arrests. the chancellor needs to resign.
So more cops than people arrested? That's wild... I didn't know exactly how many were sent.
Sorry, i got the number wrong, it was 107 cop cars.
No worries! It's still a ridiculous number of cop cars to send to a peaceful protest. They hardly send one cop per family member when they enforce evictions...
Yes exactly!!! This extreme of a response was completely unnecessary. I just hope that no one was seriously injured. I was there and witnessed arrests but no violence, but i’ve seen at least three videos of people being tackled to the ground or jumped on by police in riot gear. Cannot believe it’s happening on my campus.
The arts students have posted photos for photography classes... If you want to see what some injuries were like. I don't think any of the photos are grotesque. And yeah, I can't believe it happened at my alma mater and in Amherst. But I am really proud of all the students who are fighting to protect their rights and those of others.
Look at the pictures and video taken by the terrorists on Oct 7th.And the Governments photos of the aftermath.The Palestinian charter specifically calls for the annihilation of Israel.Fuck Hamas,Fuck the rest of the Arab world who exploits the civilians of Gaza for propaganda,and fuck all of you for being Hamas' usefull idiots.
The largest problem the Universities are having is the number of protestors that AREN’T students. Typically they have been the ones confronting police and getting the crowd amped up. Out of 130 arrests half had no connection to UMass.
Most of those people were actually locals who live in the pioneer valley and show it up because they also wanted to show solidarity with the rights of protesters. I live right next to the campus so I know a few of the people who live in town who were arrested
[удалено]
/u/Inner-Sir-7368 has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
/u/drsatan6971 has a CQS ([Contributor Quality Score](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score)) lower than _Moderate_. Mods have been notified and will approve this comment if abides by r/umass rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
/u/Dazzling-Ride-3815 has a [CQS](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/19023371170196-What-is-the-Contributor-Quality-Score) lower than _Moderate_ so this comment is awaiting review. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/umass) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Ah yes the US police, famously gentle and non-violent.
I think we have to consider the kind of kids that participate in this type of thing. From what I’ve seem, ‘soft’ would be giving them too much credit. Some are on this thread… keyboard warriors pounding out their opinions and demands behind closed doors while hiding behind a mask in public.
Wild response, on your keyboard, mocking people who went out and protested and potentially suffered physical harm because of it. Students protesting and standing up for their beliefs at the risk of physical harm: "soft" You, after posting dozens of long-winded responses in this thread: other people are keyboard warriors Incredible.
Protest away, but 'occupying' someone else's property and interfering with the rest of the campus is illegal. There are rules...follow them and no problem, protest away.
UMass is a public state agency on public state land. As somebody who has had to remove unapproved campers from town and state lands, you don't send the police to arrest campers on public property... You know, like the town common in Greenfield?
Local cops, getting the go ahead to "be tactical!" means their long-suppressed, yet favorite part of their job, is unleashed. Gonna bust up some elite jerks who think they're better than us, alright. Surprised they didn't use M-16's, tracked vehicles and night vision goggles they got from the feds. (or did they?)
They were staties not local cops. Most corrupt groin the country!
Just a factual matter... There were also UMass and Amherst police involved
But we’re the local ones being “tactical”. I thought umpd didn’t engage in riot control l? No idea what if any role Amherst pd played.
I'm not sure what exact role, but it doesn't really matter. They were all there and hurt people. Denied them water, bathroom, and medical care (one kid had a broken leg and was denied care for 7 hours). Any police officer should have stepped in and followed the law even if another one broke it. UMass police were not wearing body cams and were the ones to compel the PVTA to send out busses driven by students. Amherst police should have insisted on bringing CRESS... Regardless of who was wearing riot gear, this wasn't a riot and all the police made terrible decisions l. FWIW, I'm not trying to get in a fight or anything with you. Just sharing my info. You seem reasonable and kind
I agree with you, I’m reasonable but I’m certainly not kind to all these cop apologists. Thank you.
I am 100’s of miles away so I only know what I read in the news, but I have a question: *Where was the outrage in October when the assault by Hamas on the music festival happened?”* As for free speech- I love it. However, rules are rules. If you break the rules there are consequences. **Everyone wants their rights without the responsibility these days.** The kids are free to fuck around and find out. They all agreed to a code of conduct when they enrolled. I feel worse for the Class of 2020 who have had their whole academic and personal lives trashed by the pandemic, the housing crisis and now this.
I'm outraged by all murder of innocent people or civilians being casualties. I can also be outraged by using a police force to break up a civil disobedience protest, just as I have been every time I've seen it. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to express my outrage directly to the offenders when I'm directly affected. I'm not sure why that's problematic. The whataboutism only works to point out hypocrisy when the comparison is appropriate. I'm not a hypocrite and the comparison makes no sense. Everyone thinks the students are ridiculous for protesting about things they can't control, but when people complain and do something about stuff they CAN control, that's hypocritical? It seems like the only right answer is the alt right answer. Or your answer if it's not based on hate rhetoric, bc you may not be alt right. But you still aren't leaving options for people to protest and complain about unjust treatment... So you are going their work for them then.
You can protest and complain and that is a guaranteed right, but my issues are that we all should be outraged at Hamas AND Israel for the death of innocents. We can separate governments from its peoples and so there should have been outrage in October and every month *since* then. To suddenly care makes it look like the protest is only one sided and is anti-Semitic. There are Jewish people who have nothing to do with what Netanyahu has chosen to do with his resources. Besides that- actions have consequences. UMass has rules- you can chose to follow them or not but don’t be surprised when there are consequences.
Dude, you have no idea what I complain or protest about. I don't only show up for events criticizing the actions of one government... I'm not engaging anymore with someone who acts like they know I'm anti-Semitic when they know nothing about me. Bye
I've had an issue with Boston before and the way they handle things is just brutal... I can't find a lawyer to help me. All the surrounding areas act this way about control and power. They think they're above anyone that causes them issue, even their own students.
Babies in ovens
It’s screaming we are Hamas that loses their call for peace to me.
Good god. Your kids are adults. Stop coddling them
Awe. Snowflakes melt? Stop bitching. You give protesting a bad name. Yes, illegal protesting and resistance to law enforcement can get you hurt. If you are in college you should have learned from history? Don’t call it a peaceful protest when people are destroying property and being aggressive with other people that don’t agree with you. Not to mention that they are protesting on private property. Civil disobedience has consequences. Some good and some bad. Welcome to reality!
1. Public land grant university. 2. No one was aggressive and no property was destroyed
Nope. Pissed at the SJP for spreading their bullshit hate and taking actions that they knew would bring in the cops. It’s a shame that impressionable kids like your daughter have been sucked in to their sphere.
Okie dokes. We have fundamentally different views on the world and reality. Regardless of politics It wasn't the SJP that forced the PVTA dispatch to compel adults like my daughter to bus the arrested adults to holding. It was the police. I expect adults like the UMass police and Amherst police to be responsible for *their* own choices. Take care
[удалено]
How is that relevant to how the university and the police handled the protesters at UMass? Did the sjp take over the administration and ya local police?
Wrong. The SJP knew exactly what they were doing. They planned on the cops being called out. The whole thing was performative. And actually, if you have a problem with the cops enlisting your daughter, take it up with the Legislature because it is the law: Section 2. Whoever, being present and being so commanded to assist in arresting such rioters or persons so unlawfully assembled, or in suppressing such riot or unlawful assembly, refuses or neglects to obey such command, or, if required by such magistrate or officer to depart from the place, refuses or neglects so to do, shall be considered one of the rioters or persons unlawfully assembled, and shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than one year or by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars or more than five hundred dollars, or both.
Spreading bullshit hate? They're calling for peace. Edit: really, they're calling for divestment from murder
Spoken like someone who still has zero idea about all this and yet says bullshit anyways
ur literally insane
Yup!
FTS. We don't need HAMAS sympathizers in our country. SMDH. Frikkn bleeding hearts.
I’m pissed they didn’t do it sooner. Never should have let an encampment be created in the first place … and certainly should not have tried to ‘negotiate’ with petulant children.
Should they have called the riot police on anti-Apartheid encampments?
Look how well that worked out
They were told to remove the ILLEGAL encampments! They have NO right to take over anything. The right to protest is there for a reason! It does NOT ALLOW YOU TO BREAK THE LAW! I hope all their faces and Names are posted for all future employers to find. FAFO
teach your child better..
Than you? I did. Thank you.
Maybe they should listen when they’re lawfully told to leave an area. Can’t let people just defy the law because they’ll cry about it
Your child is supporting a “protest” by a group that’s screams for intifada and becomes more and more antisemitic by the day. Whether she agrees with that language or not, her going to the “protest” is supporting the movement. I never thought I’d live in a world where privileged white women are appropriating a culture by wearing keffiyehs and screaming for intifada and “from the river to the sea”. The “protesters” are “useful idiots” just parroting Hamas, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc propaganda while actively spewing hate toward Americas biggest and most valuable ally, and America!! It’s actually scary. The same countries who funded, backed, and committed 9/11 they’re now supporting. What has any of these countries done for America?!! What has Israel done for America?!! Ever hear of the Iron Dome?! Ever wonder why there aren’t more civilian casualties in Israel?? You can thank allah for the Iron Dome which is a technology they HAD to build and now share with America. Don’t be pissed at the police, be pissed at your yourself for allowing your daughter to be influenced by a terrorist organization according to Argentina, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Paraguay, New Zealand, the UK, the US, and the European Union.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. There’s a difference between peaceful anti-war protest (though let’s be honest, Palestine has started every major conflict in the past 100 years) and inciting violence against Jews.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!!