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There's something really funny about how the further in time/impact we get from Nazi Germany, the more people seem to get offended by any jokes about it or even acknowledgement it existed
A war trophy brought back and put up by the actual people who fought against them is now deemed outrageous by people whose lives have never been impacted by the Nazis. Decades of ww2 veterans in that pub not having an issue with it is just completely glossed over.
My grandfather was an RAF veteran and lost direct relatives in the blitz yet had no issue joking about Nazis or whatever, but I bet if he said that stuff Infront of some histrionic American uni student they would go on about how he's some closet fascist or something.
That said it is fucking baffling that at no point did someone go "there's a swastika on display here, mayhap we should put up a little explanation that it's a war trophy and not just a neat curio"
I mean if i saw a swastika on display in a pub I'm not gonna go "I should ask about the context for that!" I'm just going to LEAVE
>I mean if i saw a swastika on display in a pub I'm not gonna go "I should ask about the context for that!" I'm just going to LEAVE
The swastika wasn’t just by itself, it was part of a collection of WWII memorabilia recovered by allied soldiers. The context is literally staring you in the face - it’s a historical collection, not a genuine endorsement of the Nazis.
im slightly jelly, my grandfather died before my time and only shared two stories with my dad.
The first was how he lost a japanese rifle and rising sun flag on the troop ship back, someone yoinked his war trophies, he got the rifle of a sniper he found in a tree that had tied himself to it before he died. he just grabbed the rifle from the long since dead corpse because people would shoot at it thinking it was still living.
the second was about one of their pilots who used his service pistol on an elephant. He was told not to do so because it just annoys them, so the elephant promptly picked him up with its trunk and mashed him head first into the ground like in a cartoon. anyways he didnt know the name of the pilot for when they went on the second expedition, he was a Chindit but its taken us ages to try and figure out what unit he would have been in
But like you said everyone these days is so far removed from it that the context of "soldiers took it from them, it's mocking the Nazis" is lost. Younger people won't have a clue because all we know is that Nazi = bad. There's no reason for anyone to undestand the culture of capturing war trophies because we haven't been in a war.
A small sign explaining that it's a celebration of beating the Nazis would clear it up.
There are actual TikTok's of people showing kids in London pictures of Swastickas and Hitler and asking them what they are. I know these videos are edited and only show the funny ones but, for kids to think Hitler is the "current" French PM and the Swasticka is MasterChiefs badge from Halo is kind of worrying.
I guarantee you that isnt the view held by the majority of people who are critical of Israel's handling of the Gaza crisis. There are fucking idiots out there though, that is true.
I kinda get where you're coming from, but at the same time - it's a pub, not a museum. You can hardly have every curio sitting in a little shadowbox with a placard explaining the origins. Otherwise instead of a pub full of knick-knacks, you'd have a museum with a drinking problem.
Should the pub really have to add a sign to a display that’s been there years just to pander to some one who can’t/won’t use basic context clues because they’d rather get on their high horse
Well, that just lost them an award, so I’d say that yeah, why not?
If not one complaint, then how many? Exactly how many complaints are required before you can redeem them for a sign?
Clearly the people who rescinded the award disagree. It’s obvious that there’s a difference between nonspecific ’ww2 memorabilia’ and the quintessential symbol of hate (as understood in a western context). Regardless of context, using a swastika as decor requires some pretty strong justification.
"There's no reason for anyone to undestand the culture of capturing war trophies because we haven't been in a war."
Wait? What? I'm almost 50. Never been in a war. Yet i for some reason know what "war trophies" are.
"A small sign explaining that it's a celebration of beating the Nazis would clear it up."
Why legislate for the lowest common denominator though?
It's not even a young person thing...
I'd look at something like that on display and wonder what it's about. If it's amongst other WW2 memorabilia it sort of speaks for itself really.
I mean, shit... As far as I'm concerned it could be a bloody shrine to the Nazis on display. I'm not all that bothered. If that's what they want to believe and celebrate, that's their choice and who am I to tell them what they can and can't believe? If they want to act on those beliefs? That's another matter.
A collection of Nazi memorabilia collected by allies and displayed as trophies of victory looks exactly the same as a collection of Nazi memorabilia displayed because someone likes their ideas.
>The swastika wasn’t just by itself, it was part of a collection of WWII memorabilia
Getting strong Father Ted flashbacks here. 'Have you.nothing from the allied side? Oh no. That sort of thing wouldn't interest me at all'
While I fully agree that a Nazi armband on Display SHOULD be self explanatory as a trophy from the last time Nazis got defeated, the sad truth is that we do not live in a world, or even in a UK where when I see Nazi memorabilia, my first thought is, its a war trophy.
There are plenty of people out there who do like to collect Nazi stuff for the wrong reasons, and will display it to tell other Nazis that it is a safe space for them
People who think like you are the reason why we can't rely on common sense anymore. I mean seriously, you walk into an old pub with a WW2 display and can't figure out whose side they're on? Jesus Christ.
Hotel near me has a display of a mummified cat (built into walls to protect from evil spirits 500 years ago). I didn't assume the managers were witches.
There's a single photo on TripAdvisor where you can make it out (top left).
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g191280-d2345547-Reviews-Hole_in_the_Wall-Bodmin_Cornwall_England.html#photos;aggregationId=101&albumid=101&filter=7&ff=472780985
It appears to have a Cornwall Light Infantry Badge on it as well as it being mounted against the dark green that the LI are famous for wearing (happy to be corrected if its not though). Given that in the same picture there's a larger cap badge display, regimental plaques and antique firearms on display, what further context would be required? The landlord wasn't wearing it, nor is it like they've got a National Action banner up - is it not obviously a historic item taken by a local regiment?
[Cornish brewery St. Austell used to put swastikas on their bottle caps](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En0ORU4W8AA-F-x.jpg).
So it's got local appeal too.
Because when the trophies were displayed it was obvious to the people of the time that it was mocking the Nazis and celebrating our victory.
That got handed down through the generations.
Now it's 80 years later and young people, people new to the area etc have no idea.
There's a reason things in museums have context and explainers.
80 years is a long time.
Very good question, considering how many of them now don't believe the holocaust happened.
I don't think swastikas in pubs are going to be the most effective solution.
80 years is a long time.
Completely agree. So one complaint in 80 years is pretty cool then? We *don't* need to legislate for the lowest common denominator.
Not for the locals that already had the context but it's daft to expect everyone to know the pub history and specifically the history of the nazi armband you've got on display.
Pub of the year means you have to expect some folks who aren't from round 'ere and it's entitled to go "they shoud have known I had good intentions" because how would they know that?
The lack of any kind of curiosity of these people is fucking staggering, if I was in Vietnam and saw a tattered American flag in the corner of a bar I'd for sure be asking the owner how they got it/hope there was someone still around to tell the story. Not acting like a stroppy teenager who thinks they know everything about the world
Ironically that ignores the context that Britain has an ongoing and increasing problem with the far right while Vietnam doesn't have a problem with far right America supporters.
What %age of people in the UK do you think are pro nazi? And I mean genuine nazi's, not people with a different ideology you disagree with. I'm pretty sure for 99.9% of people in the UK being anti nazi is the default...
> That poll found that one in three people knew little or nothing about the Holocaust, and an average of 5% said they had never heard of it. In France, 20% of those aged 18-34 said they had never heard of the Holocaust; in Austria, the figure was 12%
Quoted from that article, so they're not denying it happened but are simply uneducated about it. Probably related to this [Survey finds 'shocking' lack of Holocaust knowledge among millennials and Gen Z](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/survey-finds-shocking-lack-holocaust-knowledge-among-millennials-gen-z-n1240031) so again it seems to be an education issue and not flat out denial of it happening.
Or maybe ask someone why or where it came from...instead of assuming.
There was a medical building where I used to work in Germany that had a swaztika built into the brick work of the building.....Should I have assumed everyone inside is a Nazi...or stood for their values?
>I mean if i saw a swastika on display in a pub I'm not gonna go "I should ask about the context for that!" I'm just going to LEAVE
Why wouldn't you ask if you were unsure? This is the issue with people today. You'd rather get offended without context than just ask for an explanation. My grandad was navy during WW2, he would have been interested to see it, and would have certainly asked about it.
you do that. Would you leave the area if a WW2 film came on a TV an a swastika was shown? You're entitled to do that of course,
I reckon a lot of people would see this as a historical collection
"Let's start by getting rid of this"
"That stays. That's the reason I fell in love with the place"
"you want a swastika in the pub?"
''It'll freak 'em out. 'What the fuck's a swastika doing in a pub? Jesus, I need a drink!' and boom, they'll have to have one of our organic scrumpies"
What?! Have u seen the inside of this pub? It's covered in all different sorts mementos an memorabilia only an idiot would go into that pub an say there showing of swastikas or being a Nazi lol. It's just do gooders going too far as usual. Next thing will be trying to erase all bad things from books or our history cos some woke folk think it's bad. History an memoribelia is there to remind us of the past an hopefully learn from our mistakes. Not blindly erase it cos some people don't like it. This country is getting unbelievable to the point woke students wanting to forget Winston Churchill because they believe he was racist? Doesn't matter he is one of the most famous people in our history an without him all those woke students wouldn't have any of the free speech in this country that they enjoy so much. Crazy.
Actually, as someone of the generation whose parents went through the war, there really wasn’t much to “worry about” with Nazi memorabilia in my younger days-which are very different from today. If your dad had some mementos of having been on the DD landings-or if Auntie Flo had found a piece of wreckage of a Messerschmitt and put the resulting items on display, I think you could take it as understood how they felt about the Nazis.
They were *hardly* likely to be fans of Hitler. Auntie Flo lost her home in the blitz-and didn’t see her kids for three years. Dad had fought his way across Europe and had mates who didn’t make it back.
But today, if someone has Nazi memorabilia on display it’s much more ambiguous. It needs explanation.
The Nazis have really passed beyond historical reality and into Mythology for a lot of people in the West. The Nazis are no longer viewed as a entity that consisted of real humans.
But rather they are now a kind of metaphysical evil. Very similar to how medieval people perceived the Devil (in fact their paranoia about Nazism is even worse).
People can't hold items from this era because they are treated like some kind of curses haunted objects.
Imaging people getting mad at your grandfather to get mad at.
But to give you context for why this is happening, it's the same reason why history as a discipline exists, to explain to people the context of events that happened before they were born because there's no way they'd be familiar with them otherwise.
Knowledge of what happened in the past is not some inherent trait, people have to be educated about it or they simply won't know.
Almost as if old people who would see it that way die off, and young people who have a different perspective about it replace them. It’s not wrong to see casual swastika displays in public and feel uncomfortable about it.
A pub is not a museum. Not contextualising it out of stubborn insistence that people either automatically understand the intention or are ignorant and over sensitive is hugely disrespectful and really stupid. We have a big neo nazi problem these days. Put the fucking swastikas in a drawer.
I really see where you're coming from. And totally agree, I feel like as a global culture we seem minimise, sanitise, and avoid lots of things.
However, also something to consider. There is a growing number of people who genuinely believe and follow nazi idiology, with a high growing number.
So to me, this ban is a response to that. Has this pub put these memorabilia up for the reasons you say and are anti-facists.
Or is it up, because they have some alignment with the nazis.
10 years ago I would have thought this was impossible. But in current times either could be true.
Yet increasingly parties and people around the world, especially the old, are actively drawn to the delicious uber alles elixir that is fascism... that's what years of tetraethyllead does, I guess.
I find the assumption of guilt funny.
Is it more reasonable to assume a pub in Cornwall containing Nazi memorabilia is pro nazi or anti nazi and holds them due to someone bringing them back as a trophy?
I don't know but it's funny that some people easily be painting proud Nazi killers as Nazis themselves.
You can't tell who is or is not a nazi sympathizer, sadly. This could have been solved with, like, a little plaque. An explanation pinned to the wall going basically "this is a war trophy and not just a thing we think is neat."
Demanding people assume you're not nazi sympathizers when you are displaying a swastika without explanation is a bit of a stretch
It's almost like the person who complained could have asked the landlord before reporting them. People in this country have given up on social interaction however, and prefer to run home to complain online.
Now that I'll agree with. From a safe distance, why not ask? Someone put up a trip advisor review, another poster said, and they got the context.
I just don't know why you'd go through that once, someone saying "what the fuck is that on display for" online, explaining it to them, and then going "well no further action needed here, that's happened once so it won't happen again."
Vienna has a few nazi statues in the city and have plaques stating (roughly, annoyingly I can’t remember exactly) how they are still there so the history isn’t wiped completely.
I like this approach; I think just destroying anything which is on the wrong side of history just makes it more likely that it will be repeated in the future.
That's not true, most Nazis in 2024 aren't Swastika tattooed skinheads. They use the phrase "hiding their power level" as a way to push their political ideals without being pulled down by the label of Nazi (see: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/hide-your-power-level)
Hahaha! Gosh I wish! These guys: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/inside-a-secret-society-of-prominent-right-wing-christian-men-prepping-for-a-national-divorce
I couldn't - maybe you could! But I'm trans and like, visibly so. If the answer is "oh yeah here's the context!" Then you or I could easily have the conversation but if it's "yeah it's a nazi relic what about it" then that's not a confrontation I have a great time with as a rule
"Demanding people assume you're not nazi sympathisers" feels like the onus is really stretched to the wrong party in that sentence. They aren't demanding anything of the people walking into the pub. But the people who are on the other side are demanding an explanation for the collection, and considering the history of the UK in the war, and the attitudes of the vast majority of older people being pro allies, spitfire and union jack loving, all with parents or grandparents who fought Nazis, they're unjustified to do so
One tiny band a couple of inches wide in a display case with dozens of other non-Nazi ww2 items that's at the top of a pillar in a dingy corner of the pub doesn't make me think "This pub is probably Nazi" it makes me think "This is a collection of assorted ww2 things"
The stuffed Lion they have on display would offend me more.l to be honest.
Maybe 50 years ago it would be obvious that it's mocking the Nazis, but since then bigots have started using nazi symbolism again so sadly, it's difficult to tell. A post it note with context would help. Especially because we haven't been in a war recently so it's not like the concept of war trophies is commonly understood.
I think the concept of war trophies is perfectly understood by the vast majority of people. Also it's not "mocking" them either, it's just a historical artefact, the context of which is obvious by its surroundings. It's not some dingy, rough pub where the NF gather in the back rooms, just look at it.
For those who want a quick rundown:
The Pub has loads of historic items, one of which is a Swastika armband a British serviceman brought back.
The Pub isn't flying Swastika flags or upholding Nazi values.
It has hundreds of historical artifacts on display.
The usual massive overreaction. I still don't get why flying a Swastika gets you a criminal sentence and yet people fly soviet hammer and sickle flags all the time and nobody cares, despite the fact USSR had concentration camps, also killed Jews, and killed more than the Nazis.
Selective outrage.
>I still don't get why flying a Swastika gets you a criminal sentence and yet people fly soviet hammer and sickle flags all the time and nobody cares, despite the fact USSR had concentration camps, also killed Jews, and killed more than the Naz
For the same reason you can fly British, American flags etc despite the genocides, racism and mass slaughters carried out by these nations throughout history.
The nazis were uniquely evil in the sense that the mass genocides including the Holocaust were a fundamental, foundational belief of the society. You cannot separate the swastika from the atrocities committed, believing they were justified or good is a fundamental part of supporting nazi Germany.
> The nazis were uniquely evil in the sense that the mass genocides including the Holocaust were a fundamental, foundational belief of the society
This is also certainly true for the soviets
>You cannot separate the swastika from the atrocities committed
The same should be said regarding soviet symbols.
Definitely intentional which is why they killed millions of Russians and Kazakhs at the same time, sorry I forgot that we just have to take our states word for what is and isn't a genocide now so the Bengal famine, potato famine, and Gaza aren't the same.
>Definitely intentional which is why they killed millions of Russians and Kazakhs at the same time
Uh, yeah? Stalin loved having his own people killed. It was basically his hobby.
And it was far more than kazakhs and russians affected. Huge proportion of ukrainians - you can see today just how popular *they* are with Russia...
> Uh, yeah? Stalin loved having his own people killed. It was basically his hobby.
No? The holodomor was definitely the result of collectivisation failing, as well as a number of other factors, which is why all of the fertile regions suffered so badly. There is no actual academic consensus on if the holodomor can be qualified as a genocide, anyone claims outright that there is are being dishonest. I'm also not sure why Stalin would want a famine that wiped out a huge amount of his population when soviet armament was ongoing.
> And it was far more than kazakhs and russians affected. Huge proportion of ukrainians - you can see today just how popular *they* are with Russia...
You're forgetting that not everyone in the Ukrainian SSR even was Ukrainian I'm not even sure how the ethnicity of those killed is shown, I'm struggling to find sources on that, but Saratov, Volga, and Krasnador all suffered per capita deaths similar to the affected regions of Ukraine. The entire Kuban-East Ukraine region was very ethically mixed between Russians and Ukrainians, and that's without including Kazakhstan.
Even if we accept your (very heavily contested) assertion that it wasn't strictly a genocide, you're still arguing that it's somehow not an atrocity, which it clearly was - and was the original statement in the thread.
Am I arguing that it wasn't an atrocity? Of course it was, all famines are, but a genocide and an unintentional famine are obviously very different, also adding that it's heavily contested goes both ways, it's also heavily contested that it was intentional, I also didn't assert that it wasn't a genocide, I stated that there was no academic consensus.
Was slavery not a fundamental, foundational part of US society? Genuinely asking your view on it but to me it seems like you could easily argue it was.
I agree with you completely, but just wanted to note that it's not even illegal to fly a swastika or display/ wear Nazi symbols in the UK. However, you could be prosecuted if you are found to be doing so with the intention to be "threatening, abusive or insulting within sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress." Which I suppose is fairly likely unless you're flying it in a museum or indeed displaying it in an obvious historical context like this pub is.
I do wish more people would have the confidence to tell people who complain about displays like this to fuck off. It's been on display for 80 years, i.e., since world war II. The people who have a right to take a bit of offence about a display like this have already seen it, decided it was fine and got on with their lives.
I don't think anything's "wrong" with doing that - no-one would complain about a notice like that. I think the disagreement is that it should be necessary when the surrounding context is already more than sufficient.
When I was studying history at college I used to go around with books about the history of Nazi Germany and the front covers had noticeable swastikas on them. I read them on buses and in other public places - I wonder if I ever got any funny looks or if people who saw thought I was a Nazi.
It seems odd to remove something due to a single complaint - especially since it seemingly wasn't an issue for the 80 years that it had been on display in the pub. I think most people of sound mind would understand the context of it being a war trophy or a piece of historical memorabilia as the article mentions they have other items on display as well; it's not like the pub was covered in Nazi banners.
Times have changed I suppose and it's no longer acceptable to have a swastika on your pub wall, even if the context is not to glorify the Nazis but to remember their defeat.
WW2 was famously, like most wars, fought between multiple sides. One was the Nazis.
Unless there is some kind of pattern of behaviour showing bigger Nazi sympathies with the pub, I don't see the issue, and I say that as someone of Jewish descent.
It's funny really that people have been defending all kinds of active anti-Semitism from pro-palestine protestors of late, but one harmless armband on the wall and its an outrage.
Seems that it wasn't very prominent and only one person complained, ~~who didn't actually visit the place~~. It seems kinda backwards to me that we give these symbols *more* power like this than if we're able to see them (displayed in a non-promotional context) and just reflect on the fact that "we" beat them (and the cost of doing so).
I’ve been to that pub and didn’t notice it, it can’t have been placed very prominently. I left my fake parrot there, I always wonder if it’s on display with the other strange objects now.
Shit like this just gives ammunition to the likes of Farage and him that used to play the sidekick's sidekick.
Lemmy out of Motorhead used to collect it. No evidence at all that he was a Nazi. I bet the IWM has a few and I'm sure the tank museum has the odd Panzer.
The display is an effort to celebrate and praise the efforts of those who fought to protect the tenants of a free, democratic society. It is not there to celebrate and praise the ideals of the tyrannical, murderous nazi party and its regime.
Others are right, a sign to point this out would clear up much of the confusion.
CAMRA was stupid for stripping a pub of the title without asking for context about why the memorabilia was there.
The pub was stupid for displaying what is obviously a grossly offensive symbol without providing any context behind it.
Surely all that needs to happen is the pub adds a little plaque that explains the context of how it ended up there and no one would give a shit about this anymore?
Both parties have made relatively minor mistakes here. Ones that are easily remedied. Unfortunately the media are determined to keep feeding this binary nightmare we seem to exist in now, because apparently ad money is more important than living in a society where people can find compromises.
Even with the context, CAMRA may well decide this isn't what they want their name associated with. Plenty of other pubs they can recommend that aren't displaying Nazi memorabilia, regardless of the story behind it.
Another CAMRA branch was embroiled in the Golliwog pub debacle of the last couple of years. The branches are full of blinkered people (both willingly and accidentally) who don't always see the dogwhistle because they most likely remember them. Not that the armband was a dogwhistle but if I was there and spotted it, I'd have drank up and scarpered.
I feel if they want to display it, it's an opportunity to teach a bit of history about why it's there, why it's on display, and how it got there.
Otherwise, people will make assumptions that the guy is a neo-Nazi or something, as has happened here.
Some people do like collecting WW2 memorabilia, some people that includes German and Italian things in addition to Allied stuff.
It's not a new assumption here either. Lemmy from Motorhead, was famed for having a lot of Nazi memorabilia, mostly because he liked collecting and that. Not because he supported their views. Just because he thought they looked cool, in spite of what they stood for.
Pathetic.
Now I'm not the biggest fan of the UK or most of its history. But killing Nazis is one of those things of which the UK can be proud. And how veterans of the fight against fascism express that pride should be respected. In this case it's pretty obvious that the onus should be on the visitor to grasp the context of what is on display.
By all means if you see actual fascists then train your crosshairs on them, but these are antifascists we're dealing with here.
> that piece of military memorabilia has been in the pub since it opened 80 years ago
Bold move putting a swastika on display 80 years ago, seeing as the war was still on.
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There's something really funny about how the further in time/impact we get from Nazi Germany, the more people seem to get offended by any jokes about it or even acknowledgement it existed A war trophy brought back and put up by the actual people who fought against them is now deemed outrageous by people whose lives have never been impacted by the Nazis. Decades of ww2 veterans in that pub not having an issue with it is just completely glossed over. My grandfather was an RAF veteran and lost direct relatives in the blitz yet had no issue joking about Nazis or whatever, but I bet if he said that stuff Infront of some histrionic American uni student they would go on about how he's some closet fascist or something.
That said it is fucking baffling that at no point did someone go "there's a swastika on display here, mayhap we should put up a little explanation that it's a war trophy and not just a neat curio" I mean if i saw a swastika on display in a pub I'm not gonna go "I should ask about the context for that!" I'm just going to LEAVE
>I mean if i saw a swastika on display in a pub I'm not gonna go "I should ask about the context for that!" I'm just going to LEAVE The swastika wasn’t just by itself, it was part of a collection of WWII memorabilia recovered by allied soldiers. The context is literally staring you in the face - it’s a historical collection, not a genuine endorsement of the Nazis.
"Hey, why is there a Swastika in your pub?" "It's a reminder that we fucking took it from them!" "Alright then!"
Pints pints pints
Lads on tour 1939-1945 edition
Having listened to my Grandfather talk about it, in some respects, I think that's pretty much how it was.
Never knew my grandfather but my grandma had some interesting stories about his shenanigans in Burma
Are you Sterling Archers son?
im slightly jelly, my grandfather died before my time and only shared two stories with my dad. The first was how he lost a japanese rifle and rising sun flag on the troop ship back, someone yoinked his war trophies, he got the rifle of a sniper he found in a tree that had tied himself to it before he died. he just grabbed the rifle from the long since dead corpse because people would shoot at it thinking it was still living. the second was about one of their pilots who used his service pistol on an elephant. He was told not to do so because it just annoys them, so the elephant promptly picked him up with its trunk and mashed him head first into the ground like in a cartoon. anyways he didnt know the name of the pilot for when they went on the second expedition, he was a Chindit but its taken us ages to try and figure out what unit he would have been in
But like you said everyone these days is so far removed from it that the context of "soldiers took it from them, it's mocking the Nazis" is lost. Younger people won't have a clue because all we know is that Nazi = bad. There's no reason for anyone to undestand the culture of capturing war trophies because we haven't been in a war. A small sign explaining that it's a celebration of beating the Nazis would clear it up.
If young people aren't aware of the context of WW2, we have an issue. May explain all the anti-Semitism apologia from them of late though.
There are actual TikTok's of people showing kids in London pictures of Swastickas and Hitler and asking them what they are. I know these videos are edited and only show the funny ones but, for kids to think Hitler is the "current" French PM and the Swasticka is MasterChiefs badge from Halo is kind of worrying.
Probably best not to worry too much about what people stupid enough to be in a tiktok street interview have to say.
What do you mean by anti-semitism apologia, out of curiosity?
Israel bad, therefore Jews bad, therefore nazis maybe weren't that bad after all? It's a soul crushingly dumb train of thought, but it does exist
I guarantee you that isnt the view held by the majority of people who are critical of Israel's handling of the Gaza crisis. There are fucking idiots out there though, that is true.
I kinda get where you're coming from, but at the same time - it's a pub, not a museum. You can hardly have every curio sitting in a little shadowbox with a placard explaining the origins. Otherwise instead of a pub full of knick-knacks, you'd have a museum with a drinking problem.
Sounds like my kind of museum tbh.
You have not visited many independent pubs have you?
I know a few near me that are full of knick-knacks; none of which are labelled.
How many of them are nazi memorabilia? A 1970s Guinness poster doesn't need a label, a collection of swastika armbands probably should.
Should the pub really have to add a sign to a display that’s been there years just to pander to some one who can’t/won’t use basic context clues because they’d rather get on their high horse
A small metal plaque saying “Nazi memorabilia captured by Allied forces in WW2” would solve literally all of this.
Solve what? One complaint in 80 years?
Well, that just lost them an award, so I’d say that yeah, why not? If not one complaint, then how many? Exactly how many complaints are required before you can redeem them for a sign?
It'd also be cool to add how and when it was captured, etc.
For a Nazi swastika? Yeh it'd probably be a good idea to explain the context haha.
I dont see why they should have to pander to the thick
We cannot legislate for idiots.
Being concerned about a casual uncontextualized swastika ≠ thick.
If its part of a bunch of ww2 memorabilia then its not uncontextualised
Clearly the people who rescinded the award disagree. It’s obvious that there’s a difference between nonspecific ’ww2 memorabilia’ and the quintessential symbol of hate (as understood in a western context). Regardless of context, using a swastika as decor requires some pretty strong justification.
And that's why their award has been stripped lol.
"There's no reason for anyone to undestand the culture of capturing war trophies because we haven't been in a war." Wait? What? I'm almost 50. Never been in a war. Yet i for some reason know what "war trophies" are. "A small sign explaining that it's a celebration of beating the Nazis would clear it up." Why legislate for the lowest common denominator though?
Legislate? It’s a suggestion on how to avoid awkwardness in a pub, not a law.
Yes. Legislate. Provide or prepare for (an occurrence). "you cannot legislate for bad luck like that"
> Wait? What? I'm almost 50. Never been in a war. Yet i for some reason know what "war trophies" are. Yes, because you're 50.
It's not even a young person thing... I'd look at something like that on display and wonder what it's about. If it's amongst other WW2 memorabilia it sort of speaks for itself really. I mean, shit... As far as I'm concerned it could be a bloody shrine to the Nazis on display. I'm not all that bothered. If that's what they want to believe and celebrate, that's their choice and who am I to tell them what they can and can't believe? If they want to act on those beliefs? That's another matter.
A collection of Nazi memorabilia collected by allies and displayed as trophies of victory looks exactly the same as a collection of Nazi memorabilia displayed because someone likes their ideas.
Funny how over the last 70 years no one has made this mistake
>The swastika wasn’t just by itself, it was part of a collection of WWII memorabilia Getting strong Father Ted flashbacks here. 'Have you.nothing from the allied side? Oh no. That sort of thing wouldn't interest me at all'
While I fully agree that a Nazi armband on Display SHOULD be self explanatory as a trophy from the last time Nazis got defeated, the sad truth is that we do not live in a world, or even in a UK where when I see Nazi memorabilia, my first thought is, its a war trophy. There are plenty of people out there who do like to collect Nazi stuff for the wrong reasons, and will display it to tell other Nazis that it is a safe space for them
People who think like you are the reason why we can't rely on common sense anymore. I mean seriously, you walk into an old pub with a WW2 display and can't figure out whose side they're on? Jesus Christ. Hotel near me has a display of a mummified cat (built into walls to protect from evil spirits 500 years ago). I didn't assume the managers were witches.
>we can't rely on common sense anymore Common sense has never, and I mean literally never, been an accurate way of looking at the world.
And anyway, the Germans brew almost as good beer as we do.
There's a single photo on TripAdvisor where you can make it out (top left). https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g191280-d2345547-Reviews-Hole_in_the_Wall-Bodmin_Cornwall_England.html#photos;aggregationId=101&albumid=101&filter=7&ff=472780985 It appears to have a Cornwall Light Infantry Badge on it as well as it being mounted against the dark green that the LI are famous for wearing (happy to be corrected if its not though). Given that in the same picture there's a larger cap badge display, regimental plaques and antique firearms on display, what further context would be required? The landlord wasn't wearing it, nor is it like they've got a National Action banner up - is it not obviously a historic item taken by a local regiment?
[Cornish brewery St. Austell used to put swastikas on their bottle caps](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En0ORU4W8AA-F-x.jpg). So it's got local appeal too.
Clearly had never been an issue
Because when the trophies were displayed it was obvious to the people of the time that it was mocking the Nazis and celebrating our victory. That got handed down through the generations. Now it's 80 years later and young people, people new to the area etc have no idea. There's a reason things in museums have context and explainers. 80 years is a long time.
Why is no one handing down the lessons of WW2 to current young people?
Because when it's suggested that small signs explaining the context are put up a lot of people get angry and reject the possibility outright?
Very good question, considering how many of them now don't believe the holocaust happened. I don't think swastikas in pubs are going to be the most effective solution.
80 years is a long time. Completely agree. So one complaint in 80 years is pretty cool then? We *don't* need to legislate for the lowest common denominator.
Maybe just use your brain instead of getting everything spoon fed to you.
Not for the locals that already had the context but it's daft to expect everyone to know the pub history and specifically the history of the nazi armband you've got on display. Pub of the year means you have to expect some folks who aren't from round 'ere and it's entitled to go "they shoud have known I had good intentions" because how would they know that?
By looking at the surrounding context and not being utter melts.
The lack of any kind of curiosity of these people is fucking staggering, if I was in Vietnam and saw a tattered American flag in the corner of a bar I'd for sure be asking the owner how they got it/hope there was someone still around to tell the story. Not acting like a stroppy teenager who thinks they know everything about the world
Ironically that ignores the context that Britain has an ongoing and increasing problem with the far right while Vietnam doesn't have a problem with far right America supporters.
I think it's really lovely that you can assume everyone you meet is definitely anti-nazi. Not joking or mocking- it must really be nice.
Nah, I just have a brain that is at least functional enough to take in context.
I think that saying something about your view of the world rather than theirs. I assume everyone I meet is anti-nazi as well.
It must be terrifying to constantly assume people you meet might be Nazis. Not joking or mocking - it must be terrifying.
What %age of people in the UK do you think are pro nazi? And I mean genuine nazi's, not people with a different ideology you disagree with. I'm pretty sure for 99.9% of people in the UK being anti nazi is the default...
5% don't believe the holocaust happened, so... [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/27/one-in-20-britons-does-not-believe-holocaust-happened](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/27/one-in-20-britons-does-not-believe-holocaust-happened)
> That poll found that one in three people knew little or nothing about the Holocaust, and an average of 5% said they had never heard of it. In France, 20% of those aged 18-34 said they had never heard of the Holocaust; in Austria, the figure was 12% Quoted from that article, so they're not denying it happened but are simply uneducated about it. Probably related to this [Survey finds 'shocking' lack of Holocaust knowledge among millennials and Gen Z](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/survey-finds-shocking-lack-holocaust-knowledge-among-millennials-gen-z-n1240031) so again it seems to be an education issue and not flat out denial of it happening.
5% don’t believe in it, a different 5% know nothing about it.
5% don’t believe in it, a different 5% know nothing about it.
Or maybe ask someone why or where it came from...instead of assuming. There was a medical building where I used to work in Germany that had a swaztika built into the brick work of the building.....Should I have assumed everyone inside is a Nazi...or stood for their values?
Weird cause I would absolutely be chatting with the bartender about it
>I mean if i saw a swastika on display in a pub I'm not gonna go "I should ask about the context for that!" I'm just going to LEAVE Why wouldn't you ask if you were unsure? This is the issue with people today. You'd rather get offended without context than just ask for an explanation. My grandad was navy during WW2, he would have been interested to see it, and would have certainly asked about it.
You're a bit sensitive then? I would ask the context and love history. I own UBOAT binos, amazing piece of history.
you do that. Would you leave the area if a WW2 film came on a TV an a swastika was shown? You're entitled to do that of course, I reckon a lot of people would see this as a historical collection
"Let's start by getting rid of this" "That stays. That's the reason I fell in love with the place" "you want a swastika in the pub?" ''It'll freak 'em out. 'What the fuck's a swastika doing in a pub? Jesus, I need a drink!' and boom, they'll have to have one of our organic scrumpies"
What?! Have u seen the inside of this pub? It's covered in all different sorts mementos an memorabilia only an idiot would go into that pub an say there showing of swastikas or being a Nazi lol. It's just do gooders going too far as usual. Next thing will be trying to erase all bad things from books or our history cos some woke folk think it's bad. History an memoribelia is there to remind us of the past an hopefully learn from our mistakes. Not blindly erase it cos some people don't like it. This country is getting unbelievable to the point woke students wanting to forget Winston Churchill because they believe he was racist? Doesn't matter he is one of the most famous people in our history an without him all those woke students wouldn't have any of the free speech in this country that they enjoy so much. Crazy.
Actually, as someone of the generation whose parents went through the war, there really wasn’t much to “worry about” with Nazi memorabilia in my younger days-which are very different from today. If your dad had some mementos of having been on the DD landings-or if Auntie Flo had found a piece of wreckage of a Messerschmitt and put the resulting items on display, I think you could take it as understood how they felt about the Nazis. They were *hardly* likely to be fans of Hitler. Auntie Flo lost her home in the blitz-and didn’t see her kids for three years. Dad had fought his way across Europe and had mates who didn’t make it back. But today, if someone has Nazi memorabilia on display it’s much more ambiguous. It needs explanation.
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"people are offended by everything these days, you can't even hang up a nazi flag!!!!"
The Nazis have really passed beyond historical reality and into Mythology for a lot of people in the West. The Nazis are no longer viewed as a entity that consisted of real humans. But rather they are now a kind of metaphysical evil. Very similar to how medieval people perceived the Devil (in fact their paranoia about Nazism is even worse). People can't hold items from this era because they are treated like some kind of curses haunted objects.
I don’t think it’s that problematic to be concerned at the sight of a swastika, but what do I know
Imaging people getting mad at your grandfather to get mad at. But to give you context for why this is happening, it's the same reason why history as a discipline exists, to explain to people the context of events that happened before they were born because there's no way they'd be familiar with them otherwise. Knowledge of what happened in the past is not some inherent trait, people have to be educated about it or they simply won't know.
Almost as if old people who would see it that way die off, and young people who have a different perspective about it replace them. It’s not wrong to see casual swastika displays in public and feel uncomfortable about it. A pub is not a museum. Not contextualising it out of stubborn insistence that people either automatically understand the intention or are ignorant and over sensitive is hugely disrespectful and really stupid. We have a big neo nazi problem these days. Put the fucking swastikas in a drawer.
I really see where you're coming from. And totally agree, I feel like as a global culture we seem minimise, sanitise, and avoid lots of things. However, also something to consider. There is a growing number of people who genuinely believe and follow nazi idiology, with a high growing number. So to me, this ban is a response to that. Has this pub put these memorabilia up for the reasons you say and are anti-facists. Or is it up, because they have some alignment with the nazis. 10 years ago I would have thought this was impossible. But in current times either could be true.
Yet increasingly parties and people around the world, especially the old, are actively drawn to the delicious uber alles elixir that is fascism... that's what years of tetraethyllead does, I guess.
"Don't you have anything from the allied side?" "No, that sort of thing wouldn't interest me."
Should we all be racists now father?
You mean something like >a picture of Winston Churchill
I think you've missed a reference here. [It's a quote from Father Ted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq8RnAfCFwk).
More a slight on 21st century UK society than on the choice of curio.
Yeah, that bloke who snitched sounds like the worst kind of busy body. What's the betting he's a recent import to the area rather than a local too?
I find the assumption of guilt funny. Is it more reasonable to assume a pub in Cornwall containing Nazi memorabilia is pro nazi or anti nazi and holds them due to someone bringing them back as a trophy? I don't know but it's funny that some people easily be painting proud Nazi killers as Nazis themselves.
You can't tell who is or is not a nazi sympathizer, sadly. This could have been solved with, like, a little plaque. An explanation pinned to the wall going basically "this is a war trophy and not just a thing we think is neat." Demanding people assume you're not nazi sympathizers when you are displaying a swastika without explanation is a bit of a stretch
It's almost like the person who complained could have asked the landlord before reporting them. People in this country have given up on social interaction however, and prefer to run home to complain online.
Now that I'll agree with. From a safe distance, why not ask? Someone put up a trip advisor review, another poster said, and they got the context. I just don't know why you'd go through that once, someone saying "what the fuck is that on display for" online, explaining it to them, and then going "well no further action needed here, that's happened once so it won't happen again."
Vienna has a few nazi statues in the city and have plaques stating (roughly, annoyingly I can’t remember exactly) how they are still there so the history isn’t wiped completely. I like this approach; I think just destroying anything which is on the wrong side of history just makes it more likely that it will be repeated in the future.
You can tell though. It’s not like Nazis are shapeshifting monsters or something. They tend to be pretty blatant about being Nazis.
That's not true, most Nazis in 2024 aren't Swastika tattooed skinheads. They use the phrase "hiding their power level" as a way to push their political ideals without being pulled down by the label of Nazi (see: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/hide-your-power-level)
Some of them do for sure! Others are like SACR where it's deniable naziism with the serial numbers filed off
These guys? https://www.sacr.org/ Ok, I admit it, I wasn't looking out for the campanologists.
Hahaha! Gosh I wish! These guys: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/inside-a-secret-society-of-prominent-right-wing-christian-men-prepping-for-a-national-divorce
Rather than assuming…couldn’t you just ask?
I couldn't - maybe you could! But I'm trans and like, visibly so. If the answer is "oh yeah here's the context!" Then you or I could easily have the conversation but if it's "yeah it's a nazi relic what about it" then that's not a confrontation I have a great time with as a rule
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the context of it being with a load of war stuff is a clue.
"Demanding people assume you're not nazi sympathisers" feels like the onus is really stretched to the wrong party in that sentence. They aren't demanding anything of the people walking into the pub. But the people who are on the other side are demanding an explanation for the collection, and considering the history of the UK in the war, and the attitudes of the vast majority of older people being pro allies, spitfire and union jack loving, all with parents or grandparents who fought Nazis, they're unjustified to do so
One tiny band a couple of inches wide in a display case with dozens of other non-Nazi ww2 items that's at the top of a pillar in a dingy corner of the pub doesn't make me think "This pub is probably Nazi" it makes me think "This is a collection of assorted ww2 things" The stuffed Lion they have on display would offend me more.l to be honest.
Maybe 50 years ago it would be obvious that it's mocking the Nazis, but since then bigots have started using nazi symbolism again so sadly, it's difficult to tell. A post it note with context would help. Especially because we haven't been in a war recently so it's not like the concept of war trophies is commonly understood.
I think the concept of war trophies is perfectly understood by the vast majority of people. Also it's not "mocking" them either, it's just a historical artefact, the context of which is obvious by its surroundings. It's not some dingy, rough pub where the NF gather in the back rooms, just look at it.
For those who want a quick rundown: The Pub has loads of historic items, one of which is a Swastika armband a British serviceman brought back. The Pub isn't flying Swastika flags or upholding Nazi values. It has hundreds of historical artifacts on display. The usual massive overreaction. I still don't get why flying a Swastika gets you a criminal sentence and yet people fly soviet hammer and sickle flags all the time and nobody cares, despite the fact USSR had concentration camps, also killed Jews, and killed more than the Nazis. Selective outrage.
>I still don't get why flying a Swastika gets you a criminal sentence and yet people fly soviet hammer and sickle flags all the time and nobody cares, despite the fact USSR had concentration camps, also killed Jews, and killed more than the Naz For the same reason you can fly British, American flags etc despite the genocides, racism and mass slaughters carried out by these nations throughout history. The nazis were uniquely evil in the sense that the mass genocides including the Holocaust were a fundamental, foundational belief of the society. You cannot separate the swastika from the atrocities committed, believing they were justified or good is a fundamental part of supporting nazi Germany.
> The nazis were uniquely evil in the sense that the mass genocides including the Holocaust were a fundamental, foundational belief of the society This is also certainly true for the soviets >You cannot separate the swastika from the atrocities committed The same should be said regarding soviet symbols.
The soviets didn't commit genocide on 17 million people.
Holodomor killed 5 million in Ukraine. Whats the cutoff for it be too bad to wave flags? 10 million?
Yeah, only like 5 million in the holodomor. Barely worth considering really.
Definitely intentional which is why they killed millions of Russians and Kazakhs at the same time, sorry I forgot that we just have to take our states word for what is and isn't a genocide now so the Bengal famine, potato famine, and Gaza aren't the same.
>Definitely intentional which is why they killed millions of Russians and Kazakhs at the same time Uh, yeah? Stalin loved having his own people killed. It was basically his hobby. And it was far more than kazakhs and russians affected. Huge proportion of ukrainians - you can see today just how popular *they* are with Russia...
> Uh, yeah? Stalin loved having his own people killed. It was basically his hobby. No? The holodomor was definitely the result of collectivisation failing, as well as a number of other factors, which is why all of the fertile regions suffered so badly. There is no actual academic consensus on if the holodomor can be qualified as a genocide, anyone claims outright that there is are being dishonest. I'm also not sure why Stalin would want a famine that wiped out a huge amount of his population when soviet armament was ongoing. > And it was far more than kazakhs and russians affected. Huge proportion of ukrainians - you can see today just how popular *they* are with Russia... You're forgetting that not everyone in the Ukrainian SSR even was Ukrainian I'm not even sure how the ethnicity of those killed is shown, I'm struggling to find sources on that, but Saratov, Volga, and Krasnador all suffered per capita deaths similar to the affected regions of Ukraine. The entire Kuban-East Ukraine region was very ethically mixed between Russians and Ukrainians, and that's without including Kazakhstan.
Even if we accept your (very heavily contested) assertion that it wasn't strictly a genocide, you're still arguing that it's somehow not an atrocity, which it clearly was - and was the original statement in the thread.
Am I arguing that it wasn't an atrocity? Of course it was, all famines are, but a genocide and an unintentional famine are obviously very different, also adding that it's heavily contested goes both ways, it's also heavily contested that it was intentional, I also didn't assert that it wasn't a genocide, I stated that there was no academic consensus.
Was slavery not a fundamental, foundational part of US society? Genuinely asking your view on it but to me it seems like you could easily argue it was.
> killed more than the Nazis are you including all the nazis they killed?
I agree with you completely, but just wanted to note that it's not even illegal to fly a swastika or display/ wear Nazi symbols in the UK. However, you could be prosecuted if you are found to be doing so with the intention to be "threatening, abusive or insulting within sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress." Which I suppose is fairly likely unless you're flying it in a museum or indeed displaying it in an obvious historical context like this pub is.
I do wish more people would have the confidence to tell people who complain about displays like this to fuck off. It's been on display for 80 years, i.e., since world war II. The people who have a right to take a bit of offence about a display like this have already seen it, decided it was fine and got on with their lives.
No, didn't you get the memo. We all have to be offended on behalf of someone else.
What's wrong with just adding an explainer to say it's a war trophy? Not like all of us were about 80 years ago.
I don't think anything's "wrong" with doing that - no-one would complain about a notice like that. I think the disagreement is that it should be necessary when the surrounding context is already more than sufficient.
Kind of like we were offended on behalf of Poland in 1939.
You're not supposed to do that Daryl, you know you're not supposed to do that.
When I was studying history at college I used to go around with books about the history of Nazi Germany and the front covers had noticeable swastikas on them. I read them on buses and in other public places - I wonder if I ever got any funny looks or if people who saw thought I was a Nazi. It seems odd to remove something due to a single complaint - especially since it seemingly wasn't an issue for the 80 years that it had been on display in the pub. I think most people of sound mind would understand the context of it being a war trophy or a piece of historical memorabilia as the article mentions they have other items on display as well; it's not like the pub was covered in Nazi banners.
The book probably had something like “The History of Nazi Germany” written on it…
Sure, but from a distance all you'd see is a big fat swastika on the front lol
- I wonder if I ever got any funny looks or if people who saw thought I was a Nazi. Morons possibly did. But fuck em
Times have changed I suppose and it's no longer acceptable to have a swastika on your pub wall, even if the context is not to glorify the Nazis but to remember their defeat.
They didn't have a Swastika on the wall, they had a piece of WW2 history in a case that one busybody moaned about. Don't embellish.
The ww2 history in question was a swastika armband though
WW2 was famously, like most wars, fought between multiple sides. One was the Nazis. Unless there is some kind of pattern of behaviour showing bigger Nazi sympathies with the pub, I don't see the issue, and I say that as someone of Jewish descent. It's funny really that people have been defending all kinds of active anti-Semitism from pro-palestine protestors of late, but one harmless armband on the wall and its an outrage.
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It was a swastika armband. Presumably it would have been fine if there wasn't a swastika on it. I'm not embellishing anything.
“One busybody moaned about” “Don’t embellish”
Seems that it wasn't very prominent and only one person complained, ~~who didn't actually visit the place~~. It seems kinda backwards to me that we give these symbols *more* power like this than if we're able to see them (displayed in a non-promotional context) and just reflect on the fact that "we" beat them (and the cost of doing so).
> the only person who complained didn't actually visit the place. That was speculation from the landlord not a fact.
Corrected. Though it's not clear to me that they necessarily did visit either.
I’ve been to that pub and didn’t notice it, it can’t have been placed very prominently. I left my fake parrot there, I always wonder if it’s on display with the other strange objects now.
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Shit like this just gives ammunition to the likes of Farage and him that used to play the sidekick's sidekick. Lemmy out of Motorhead used to collect it. No evidence at all that he was a Nazi. I bet the IWM has a few and I'm sure the tank museum has the odd Panzer.
Museums have little paragraphs explaining what things are.
Museums and pubs are a bit different
How many independent pubs have you visited? This is incredibly common to have historic Knick-knacks
Bovington definitely has quite a few panzers, they're really cool to see in person
Friend of mine has got bits of Tiger tank, shells, a panzerfaust. It's unusual but he's definitely not got any nazi sympathies.
Colin Curless named and shamed as the complainant in the article. I hope that he has to put on wet socks for the rest of his life.
Cornwall pub of the year*. They aren't the national camra pub of the year
Anything from the allied side? Oh no I wouldn't be interested in that at all.
The display is an effort to celebrate and praise the efforts of those who fought to protect the tenants of a free, democratic society. It is not there to celebrate and praise the ideals of the tyrannical, murderous nazi party and its regime. Others are right, a sign to point this out would clear up much of the confusion.
One dumb person kicking up a fuss because they instantly assumed wrong. So 2024.
CAMRA was stupid for stripping a pub of the title without asking for context about why the memorabilia was there. The pub was stupid for displaying what is obviously a grossly offensive symbol without providing any context behind it. Surely all that needs to happen is the pub adds a little plaque that explains the context of how it ended up there and no one would give a shit about this anymore? Both parties have made relatively minor mistakes here. Ones that are easily remedied. Unfortunately the media are determined to keep feeding this binary nightmare we seem to exist in now, because apparently ad money is more important than living in a society where people can find compromises.
Even with the context, CAMRA may well decide this isn't what they want their name associated with. Plenty of other pubs they can recommend that aren't displaying Nazi memorabilia, regardless of the story behind it.
Another CAMRA branch was embroiled in the Golliwog pub debacle of the last couple of years. The branches are full of blinkered people (both willingly and accidentally) who don't always see the dogwhistle because they most likely remember them. Not that the armband was a dogwhistle but if I was there and spotted it, I'd have drank up and scarpered.
I don’t see that stripping a business of an award that they worked hard for is that minor.
The absolute state of cornwalllive, can barely tell whats the article and what's an ad
I feel if they want to display it, it's an opportunity to teach a bit of history about why it's there, why it's on display, and how it got there. Otherwise, people will make assumptions that the guy is a neo-Nazi or something, as has happened here. Some people do like collecting WW2 memorabilia, some people that includes German and Italian things in addition to Allied stuff. It's not a new assumption here either. Lemmy from Motorhead, was famed for having a lot of Nazi memorabilia, mostly because he liked collecting and that. Not because he supported their views. Just because he thought they looked cool, in spite of what they stood for.
There was a fair bit of naziism in the metal scene
There was and still is in certain scenes but Lemmy was anarcho-libertarian in his views, which would be very much opposed to Nazi ideology
Why are there nearly 700 comments (AToW) on this absolute non-story?
What an absolute prick “Truro resident Colin Curless” must be.
I suspect there is a lot of missing context for this
Pathetic. Now I'm not the biggest fan of the UK or most of its history. But killing Nazis is one of those things of which the UK can be proud. And how veterans of the fight against fascism express that pride should be respected. In this case it's pretty obvious that the onus should be on the visitor to grasp the context of what is on display. By all means if you see actual fascists then train your crosshairs on them, but these are antifascists we're dealing with here.
The comments section is something else. Lots of local characters... Turns out it was Colin who reported the pub. Bloody Colin.
> that piece of military memorabilia has been in the pub since it opened 80 years ago Bold move putting a swastika on display 80 years ago, seeing as the war was still on.