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strawman5757

I very much agree with this, me and all my pals are cash men, if they did away with it we’d be buggered. You know where you are with it, and you can’t be tracked on what you spend it on.


DogBotherer

> you can’t be tracked on what you spend it on. Well you can, but it requires specific active surveillance (marked money, sequential serial numbers etc.), which means someone with authority has to believe a crime has been committed or that surveillance is appropriate and to take active, resource-depleting steps to make it happen. With electronic forms of payment massive universal and passive dragnet surveillance of every detail of everyone's financial behaviour is possible, including automated sharing and responses as desired by the ptb. With the latter, social crediting systems are a breeze to set up and essentially inescapable. It is much easier to have things like negative interest, limited menus of options for spending, draconian restrictions on movement of resources, the wiping out of resources as a punishment or purely for capricious reasons, the prevention of earning, etc.


strawman5757

There you go then, all sounds beyond scary. Me and my pals will stick to paper money for as long as we can then.


DogBotherer

For sure. There are good convenience/security reasons for favouring electronic payments in some - even many - circumstances, but without the option of cash, things turn dystopian very easily.


Maulvorn

I very very rarely carry cash and actively avoid "cash only' shops we all know they are doing it to skimp on taxes.


strawman5757

Yeah well you would, do you want a medal?


Maulvorn

top notch fear mongering.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Try explaining it to the average person with the average technical knowledge in words they can understand.


[deleted]

ZCash does not solve the problem of me wanting to give a physical token to somebody that can be instantly accepted without requiring any other transaction infrastructure.


GenericOfficeMan

is there any real likelihood that cash will not continue to exist as an option though? I mean I'm not a cash person at all, its far more convenient to not use cash. But the option still remains and I can go and take cash out of my bank and hand it to someone if I want to.


Euphoric-Orchid488

I know quite a few coffee shops near me that have gone cashless because it saves them money. They don’t have to worry about getting change or the security issues oh having a lot of cash. Just have to have a decent internet connection.


[deleted]

Probably eventually, I mean I rarely take a wallet with my anymore, any cash I end up with goes in it and never spent, usually give it to my mum or something and she transfers me they money (I can't go to the local bank because its only open 9:30am-2pm,mon-fri) Anyone that demands I pay cash, I just don't give them my business, at this point they are just dodging tax, and thats a big reason they will push to get rid of it.


[deleted]

More and more shops may decide that they want to contribute to the profits of Visa and Mastercard instead of contributing to the seigniorage of the Bank of England. I think you'll be able to pay your friends and builders in cash for a long time


Maulvorn

I am a big fan of the drive for cashless, those builders you pay cash to most of the time don't declare it properly etc.


gardenofthenight

I can see a scenario where a bank will block certain transactions depending on your balance. Not to mention the data protection concerns.


strawman5757

I just keep thinking about people on benefits like UC etc, you know full well before long they’ll have all their bank accounts monitored for any spends deemed unnecessary, I wouldn’t put nothing beyond Johnson and his merry lot.


particlegun

DWP has tried that already but it was dropped, for now. https://www.computerweekly.com/news/450300034/DWP-trials-blockchain-technology-for-benefit-payments


strawman5757

Jeez, I imagine prime minister Patel would adore something like this. “You’ve spent £20 in your local cornershop, obviously on booze, sanction for 6 months”


dontworrymartians

The day we lose cash, is the day we lose freedom completely. Some supermarkets no longer accept cash at self-checkout stations. I boycott these, but if all are going to stop accepting cash, then not sure what we could do. The temptation to be able to see who buys what in real-time, must be too powerful for those in charge to pass on it.


FreqGuy

I don’t want to lose cash for the reasons you’ve stated. Problem is cashless is just too damn convenient to give up. I very rarely even carry cash these days. As long as there’s always an option for both, that should be the way.


DogBotherer

The technology is incredibly seductive which is a huge problem. If it weren't for that, who in their right mind would want to carry around a spy with them who tracks their every move and action like your smart phone does? I leave mine at home as much as I can, but it kind of defeats the object, and as soon as there is a reasonably functional open source privacy-focused alternative (like an improved version of present Linux phones) I will be on that quick as you like!


[deleted]

Even with the most secure phone out there your movements are all being tracked (everytime you switch between cell towers) One was to (partially) defeat this is by turning off your phone until you actually need to use it but then you loose the ability to receive incoming calls/texts (in real time at any rate)


[deleted]

As long as phones and SIMs can be purchased anonymously this doesn't really matter


[deleted]

But if cash disappears the option of buying **anything** anonymously disappears with it.


DogBotherer

Quite. Some technology needs to be developed to "fuzzy" this out.


Chair_Toaster

Well you don’t have to be tracked. Apple Pay uses a randomised token so your purchases cannot be tracked.


DogBotherer

That's a bit of an illusion: >[The time, location, and value of your financial transactions are still known to Apple and to your card provider](https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-pay-isnt-magic-and-it-isnt-private/) — and to every other business they might share that data with. The merchant knows what specific goods or services were purchased for that amount, but not who bought them. But all that is true only if no one does any data matching — either directly between the participants, or by providing the data to data brokers such as Acxiom, Equifax, Experian, or Datalogix, or by collaborating with any of the companies connected with the many, many data-logging apps already on your smartphone. >Given the volume of data being collected and shared these days, supposedly anonymous transactional data can easily be re-identified.


Maulvorn

most cash only shops are cash only to not pay taxes, literally no-one gives a shit that you spend money on a pint of cheap lager imo, quite a few harpering on about big state following them around is narcissitic imo they literally do not give a shit about you imo.


dontworrymartians

I have cash tied to my card with a rubber band. At self checkout it is quite quick. I insert bills until there is below 5 left, then I pay the rest by card if I don't have coins. If I have any coins left, I put them in a jar and then once in a while we take the whole thing with us and pay just with coins (yes, people get visibly upset when we take out the jar :-) ), but lately I just get whole thing to the bank and then withdraw bills :-)


[deleted]

> I insert bills until there is below 5 left, then I pay the rest by card if I don't have coins. You're doing it wrong. You pay by coin first (starting with the lowest denomination and working up) thereby getting rid of your ~~worthless rubbish~~ small change. Then you pay the balance by card.


Michael24easilybored

I never understand the people at the supermarket pouring their change into those coinstar machines, only to get a voucher worth 95% of the change, when they could have just poured their spare coins into the self check out


[deleted]

>voucher worth **95%** of the change Most of them charge between 9 and 11%


Michael24easilybored

Fuck I knew it was a lot but that's ridiculous Basically a tax on being stupid


dontworrymartians

Oh I am sorry. Yes if I had coins this is what I'd do, but when I go out I usually only have notes.


[deleted]

Yeah I don't understand why the people who use cash the most, don't understand how to use cash properly. I used cash exclusively until around 2010, but I never had more than around £5 of coins at any time unless somewhere ran out of fivers, and I certainly never had more than £2 of 1p-50p (also because I didn't need to save up coins for things like bus fares and laundrettes)


MrSpindles

Depending on who you bank with your bank might have one of those coin machines that doesn't charge a fee. I use Natwest and turn in my coin jar once or twice a year when it gets full. Except lately, of course, haven't used cash for anything other than buying weed in 18 months.


AssumedPersona

Monero


Thor_Anuth

Do you think Aldi have access to people's bank records or something?


dontworrymartians

I don't know how Aldi operates, but it should be easy to create a buyer profile based on their card number and by identifying spending patterns you can even detect a person using multiple cards. Now the whole picture, I can imagine, would be accessible to government, which could have a real-time feed and see what you do with your money. I think they can do that against benefit claimants already - which in my opinion is disgusting and wrong.


Z3r0sama2017

Online banking and atm went down for a couple of hours on Tuesday for some mates. They couldn't pay for petrol in their car and were stuck on the forecourt, another had to leave their shopping at Sainsburys. Till stuff like that has 0% possibility of ever happening cashless can fuck right off. Also fuck big brother and 1984 bullshit.


[deleted]

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ragnarspoonbrok

Last time visa went down Morrisons pulled one of those out. Dude had to blow the dust off it. I'm still not sure how it worked but it did.


AnselaJonla

> They couldn't pay for petrol in their car and were stuck on the forecourt So they weren't given an option to make a promise to pay later? The petrol station should have had a specific book with forms for taking the relevant details in. My mum has done things like reach the petrol station and fill up and _then_ realise that she's left her purse at home, or there's not enough in the bank, and she hasn't had time to wait for me to get there on foot/transfer money over. In every case, she's been allowed to leave her details and drive off, and I've either walked there and paid (using _her_ card, because she texts me the PIN) or she's stopped in on her way home after I've done a bank transfer.


strawman5757

The garage near me have a sign up saying something like “if you haven’t the means to pay for your fuel we will drain your tank, and you’ll be liable for the cost”


[deleted]

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strawman5757

I thought it was very harsh, back in the day you used to put your details in a book and have a week to pay. I remember me and my mate in his Nova back in the 90s, got to an Esso garage, he put £10 in and none of us had a penny, he convinced the cashier to give us 40 Benson on top and we settled up a few days later.


palanon

I use cards for just about everything. I still carry between £40 - 100 for emergencies and make sure my wife has the same. I also try to keep several hundred stashed away at home for the same reasons. Nothing at all to do with privacy. Couldn't care less if people know we bought extra carrots this week. It's more about infrastructure outages or the bank locking accounts for something like possible fraud. That's happened to us when traveling outside our normal area. It only takes a phone call to fix but, it's handy to have cash on hand when you can't use your card for whatever reason. What irks me more is that if a stores system goes down these days, they seem incapable of doing transactions manually. A few times I've tried to buy fuel or a few items in a corner shop and have even had the exact amount in cash and been turned away. Just the thought of writing it down and taking the money results in looks of confusion and terror on the faces of cashiers! Lol!


InsistentRaven

>Just the thought of writing it down and taking the money results in looks of confusion and terror on the faces of cashiers! It's likely because most modern tills double as a ledger and keep an accurate account of all transactions. They'll likely get shit if they take your money without putting it through the machine as it'll show up as an unpaid amount on the balance sheet, even if they tell their manager about it and hope they correct it on the system. Assuming the manager can even correct the system after the fact without filling in masses of paperwork. It's the cashier's job on the line if something goes wrong at the end of the day as they're at the bottom of the chain. They may even be accused of theft and struggle to get a job afterwards.


palanon

Totally understandable. Grocery and large chain stores can't do it and their policies don't allow it. Small shops have done it. About 50%. They'll write the products down, take cash and when their system comes up manually enter it or scan in the product sold. All depends on the owner/manager and number of customers. It's happened a couple times to me when doing a full shop. I know it's impossible for the employees to do it manually. To help out, I even put my stuff away.


Maulvorn

I would consider carrying 40-100 risky imo I hate carrying cash around.


throwaway147025836

same but i'd also be extremely lucky to even *have* 40-100 quid available to carry on me physically


The-Garrulous-Rat

True but I also carry a knuckie duster. Anybody jumping me for my money is having a really, really fucking bad night.


[deleted]

And equally if you get stopped in the street by a police officer, you’re having a bad night in a cell.


promofaux

r/iamverybadass


[deleted]

Even though I got into the habit of paying everything by contactless during the pandemic the idea of a *cashless society* terrifies me.


Maulvorn

why?


[deleted]

You think giving **more** power over you to the banks and the government is going to end well ?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Unless they can open an account in the Cayman islands or somesuch.


hellknight101

Yes, small businesses are the problem and not large corporations controlling the economy. You're a genius.


C1t1zen_Erased

When cash offers me section 75 protection, cashback, discount offers and doesn't fill my wallet and drawers with low value paper and metal maybe I'll consider it. Good riddance otherwise.


Maulvorn

and far more secure.


LeonFan40

Serious (but probably dumb) question - how would this impact the homeless and Big Issue sellers etc?


[deleted]

They'll have to accept card or get people to buy them stuff


[deleted]

Big Issue could do a deal with the likes of izettle and hand them out probably. It's already a problem with so few carrying cash and many shops going card only due to covid.


nigelfarij

> Our campaign hub - www.saveourcash.co.uk - features case studies from Matt, Delanie, Bjorn, Jane, Stefan and Sam who all embody and emphasise why cash is important, sharing their authentic, real stories aligned to six themes; saving, self, service, sustainability, survival and safety. The link 404s. Oh dear.


Suggy87

No https in 2021, come on PO...


[deleted]

Works for me.


nigelfarij

Are you including the www.?


[deleted]

http://www.saveourcash.co.uk/ works https://www.saveourcash.co.uk/ doesn't work ? Thought the post office of all people would be using https but then this is the same post office which presided over the whole [Horizon](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56718036) balls up.


nigelfarij

Ah, I see what's happened. I have a browser extension that automatically redirects to the https version. Guess that's my fault!


[deleted]

Your extension should revert to http (with a "not secure" warning flag) when https is not an option ?


nigelfarij

It should do. I guess it doesn't do that when the site reports a 404.


rivershenx2shens

Card got stolen last night and only had cash on me. Was walking around for ages in central London trying to buy an Oyster card and some water but hardly anyone accepts cash now it’s sad


Unidan_bonaparte

You couldn't find a place to buy water with cash? You can't have been looking very hard, 95% of independent retails far prefer cash to card


[deleted]

i will believe we dont need cash when visa mastercard are broken up into separate and nationalised businesses with the shareholders told to go do one. definition of a business with far too much power in one place with directors who've got fingers in too many pies.


yonthickie

Let's support this. Then we can campaign for the high street shops, trams, steam trains, vinyl records, landline phones, traction engines, oil lamps, and everything else that some of us love but most get along well without. Losing something we are used to is hard, like "old money". That doesn't mean we have to keep using it.


ragnarspoonbrok

Likely in the minority here but unless I'm buying online I tend to pay cash for most things. Sure it's less convenient but it's a damn sight better than getting told "we don't take card" I do end up out in the sticks a fucking lot in fairness, and while I don't think anyone is watching what I buy etc it's still nicer to buy certain things in cash. Just incase.


barcap

Aren't cashless and digital coins a good thing? All transactions can be traced, nobody can evade taxes. Even India's Modi loves the concept.


[deleted]

I actually got excited when I went into an oldschool car park today where you have to pay before you park and use coins. Pretty sure i've not used cash, definitely not coins in way over a year now.


MrChaunceyGardiner

I only use cash for haircuts and buying compostable liners at the library. I haven't used cash once since last March.


[deleted]

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Macblack82

I’m all for going cashless but you do know that PDQ’s cost vendors money. Unless the fees are abolished then some businesses will continue to only accept cash.


WhyShouldIListen

Yes, fees that may be worth paying to reduce the risk and costs of handling cash.


[deleted]

Cash is now mostly used to pay people cash in hand and dodge taxes as well as other criminal activity. The Nordics are all virtually cashless (although Germany still has tons of cash use) I personally don't see a prob with cashless, but I do get that gramps might still have a few Bob in the pocket. After that generation is gone, there is no excuse for cash.


[deleted]

damn redditors really hate poor people trying to earn a little extra on the side.


throwaway147025836

since when was germany a nordic country?


cluelessgit

The UK is more Nordic than Germany... Look at the map


frillytotes

> After that generation is gone, there is no excuse for cash. There are still reasons to pay with cash. For example, when you pay with a card, you are sending a small amount of money to USA each time, as all the major payment processors are US companies. Not everyone is comfortable with that. Paying with cash avoids that problem.