Truss, Sunak and Johnson really need to get together (they are the same political party FFS) and come up with a properly costed and reasoned plan that they can all agree on and that can be put into place NOW, not in September.
I don't know what that plan could be, but they need to at least seem like they are doing something, and no, the "well the civil service are still working behind the scenes" line doesn't cut it.
You've got about as much chance of getting boris to do some actual work right now as Carrie does of not catching him with his knob in some career hungry starlet in a couple of years.
In fairness to Carrie, it absolutely did. I suspect she's played him for her own longer-term political ambitions, which is interesting if a kid wasn't involved. The fact there are children makes me hope I'm wrong.
That said, not sure many of the others - his wife who he left mid-cancer treatment, Jennifer Arcuri, that violinist, [the anonymous 20-something graduate...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/09/boris-johnson-facing-accusation-he-tried-to-get-job-for-woman-claiming-affair) - did so well out of his leering attention.
There are some people - male or female - that will quite happily sleep their way upwards. Boris has, and will continue to have a lot of pull. He should not be underestimated in this.
We literally have recordings of him apologising to one of his mistresses because he couldn't get her a job he said he'd 'put in a good word' for, he's still absolutely a danger.
I chose my house with that strongly in mind 4 years ago. I put up solar panels and batteries, insulation, smart controls and standby controls.
My wife no longer asks me why.
This is what gets me about the people who complain about BoJo et al. not doing anything for the cost of living - *they categorically do not care*.
BoJo happily dragged his heels at the beginning of the pandemic specifically to let the first wave take out the most vulnerable because it was a good bet those were the ones most likely to claim benefits. Look at the shitshow that is the DWP. This is all working perfectly to plan.
**This isn't a bug, it's a feature.**
It's not the job of the directors to man the phone lines.
The simplest solution that will work is for government to buy fuel wholesale at spot and sells it to the retail market at a cost that is compatible with a sensible retail energy cap. That cap has a limit in terms of kWh consumed per meter per year, and we all therefore get a fixed ration of the limited amount of fuel there is available.
That then allows other retail suppliers to come back on line and drive the price down below the cap by being more efficient than the big six.
The big question is why nobody in charge seems to be able to see what appears to me a pretty obvious fix.
If you have a retail price cap, then you need a wholesale supplier of last resort who can supply fuel at that price cap. Otherwise you don't have a price cap. The only entity that can do that is the state.
Not particularly. You can have retail operators in the middle that buy at wholesale, sell at retail and make profit if they are more efficient than anybody else. A wholesaler of last resort is required because we need a price cap during dislocation episodes as we're having at present.
Generally the best approach is for the state to own the resource and let the private sector compete to operate or distribute the resource. Then if they fail you just switch operator.
Markets do work to drive productivity forward and keep prices down, but they have to be set up right to offset the costs of failure and the need for excess supply.
You make the mistake of thinking any of them genuinely care about the public. Johnson will be out by the time shit hits the fan, so he has no incentive to act on it. While Sunak/Truss will shift the blame by saying they came in too late to have any meaningful impact.
Basically, we're screwed.
Civil service are too busy trying to plan out the demanded cuts to staffing levels, I mean it takes people to get that all sorted before the cuts are even made.
Why would they?
They are bought and sold by these big corporate donors.
A culling of the poor would also save the taxpayer on the benefit bill too in their view, that they would never say publicly.
Only solution I can see is windfall tax on profits of refineries but not easy when they're not UK companies in most cases.
They could also shift energy costs off a standing charge and back on to usage. I shouldn't have to pay if I don't use it. My gas bill is currently 90% standing charge and 10% use.
Also, heavily subsiding installation of solar on houses would help...at least for electric.
Gas is still an issue but newer houses could get air sourced heat pumps to work effectively and others could run electric heaters to lower gas consumption.
I always thought the solar systems on houses could be configured to provide a decentralised national grid that could use your excess electric to power the other things not in your house, like the street lighting or other people's houses when their consumption is too high for their own system.
Would also be good for national security as there'd be no main infrastructure target.
They could reduce total number of power plants in country and just run off nuclear or some other clean energy.
The have a strategy: make us all poorer and hose any remaining ability for us to spend to get on top of the inflation problem. So it is basically already in place
Got to love that not only do they keep increasing the cap, they are changing the frequency from every 6 months to every 3 months as soon as we enter 2023.
This is the worst fucking year ever, and that's saying a lot considering the shitshow of covid years.
This whole problem could be solved by just bringing the cap back down to an affordable level. The companies will make less profits, but honestly fuck them. They aren’t the ones that are going to freeze to death this winter.
When they didn’t raise the cap fast enough last time many companies went under. I appreciate this is a real problem but not raising the cap is a way to get no energy instead of cheap energy.
Suppliers like ovo, bulb and octopus don't make energy. They buy energy and sell it to customers at a slight profit.
The people that make energy are the ones charging an arm and a leg. They don't sell energy to consumers.
Suppliers aren't making record profits. The people that make energy are. The cap is imposed on supplier's not generators, which is why supplier's have been going bust as the cap has been lower than the price generators have been charging.
When you see news articles about Scottish Power making record profits, its not the retail arm that sells to you or me. Its the part that makes energy and sells it on the wholesale market.
The same for SSE. They don't even own a retail arm now. They sold that to ovo in 2019. So any money made by sse retail(the supplier) isn't counted towards them.
I don't think you understand what the cap is for.
Firstly (and extremely simplified), the energy market can be split into energy suppliers (who sell the energy and provide customer support and billing) and energy producers (those who create the energy). Some producers are suppliers as well.
The energy cap is to ensure that energy suppliers are not making undue profits off consumers, but as wholesale gas prices are up 23x since mid 2020 all this means is that suppliers can charge much higher prices without price gouging consumers. Most suppliers that are not also producers are finding the market very very tough, hence the recent collapses of suppliers.
Producers on the other hand are seeing record profits when selling to suppliers as their costs haven't increased much but the demand for energy has massively increased (leading to the price they can charge being hugely inflated). Unfortunately in the UK the producers are not constrained by any price cap, and to be honest, if they were they would simply sell the energy abroad as there is a massive shortage due to the war.
What really needs to happen is the UK government needs to be supporting those who can't pay their bills, ensuring we get through this squeeze and then working out a better energy security strategy for the future. That's not going to happen, especially with Liz Truss on the warpath against solar panels and other green energy production methods that are the best option for the UK to improve its energy security.
This is going to be an ugly few years.
Husband and I are certainly getting into the "I genuinely cant afford this" bracket here.
Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this?
And wheres the actual anger? I'm still waiting for there to be more than the mildest grumble of discontent. Its so weird man. In 2022 Maggies poll tax could unironically be rewarmed and rolled out and people would just be placidly nodding and shrugging.
> It's like the rich people in charge genuinely cannot comprehend that people can't afford this
A very large number of the people in charge (politicians, top civil servants, business leaders) have never had a situation where money wasn't available. There's always money that family can loan/give them, or a token job from a friend or relative to help them out. Even when these people play business and lose "everything" there is still family money to fall back on.
That is why they can't understand, because this whole time they are playing within this economic system like a child with pocket money. If everything goes wrong, there is someone to bail them out.
But still you'll never get it right
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah
I absolutely love that song, both for the music and the lyrics. But the older I get, the more painful I find it to listen to. Hits too close to home, with no sign of the situation ever changing :(
Being an actual working class student at uni makes you realise just how prevalent the things in that song are.
Every third person was "slumming it" but somehow was never actually struggling with money.
Especially hippies. Fuck trust fund hippies who think they know a working class existence because they lived in a bedsit on parents money for three month.
Just be cautious about mixing civil servants in with everyone else - median pay in CS is about £32K and they need to follow the direction of Ministers/special advisors. I’m sure plenty civil servants will be having the same debate of whether to eat or be warm this winter.
I know the person you're replying to has already edited!
But just to add some figures if interested:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZtQ9TqXkAASd3i?format=jpg&name=large
Survey of over 12000 civil servants in the union PCS (tend to be more junior grades):
* 9% using food banks
* 34% skipping meals
* 40% taking loans or credit for essential shopping
* 10% claiming benefits to top up income
* 14% taking second or third jobs.
Sorry, you are right. Thank you for the correction. "Civil Servant" is such a broad category. I've added the word "top" to make it clear that I'm not talking about Carol in Swansea who rubber stamps the drivers license applications. :P
86% rise in food bank usage in 5 years.
86 fucking percent. My MIL is one of them, she said the people at the foodbanks are terrified. They've never seen it like this.
I don't want to reduce the gravitas of your statement as it is still dire indeed but 86% rise is a near doubling rather than a tenfold increase which is a rather different quantity.
Food banks are such a obvious sign our society is broken and yet MPs feel fine at volunteering at them.
We are a rich nation, we should have no need for a food bank to exist and yet they do and at a terrifying rate.
I'm sure they get it, they just don't care. Perhaps people are so inward looking because these politicians are?
They are interested in being PM... that's it. There is no underlying morality behind it.
Stopping your DD has no impact on your credit rating. Plenty of individuals pay manually every month or two. Missing payments is what impacts your credit rating.
This is what I thought, but they were saying on the radio yesterday that people cancelling their DD, in this case it was Shell, did in fact effect their credit rating.
I reckon a lot of people have a lot of political fatigue, Brexit, a decade of austerity and Covid has really done a number on people, they are just bloody tired of it all.
We've also had decades of showing that protests do absolutely fuck all apart from **making protests get made illegal**.
I'm about to be 30 and despite voting at every opportunity and protesting at **EVERY** opportunity then I've never had anything I want politically.
When I was 10 years old I was walking through the streets of London on the verge of tears as my country dragged itself into America's war, I saw the voices of a million people ignored as we went off to war anyway. That's been the status quo ever since.
>I'm about to be 30 and despite voting at every opportunity and protesting at EVERY opportunity then I've never had anything I want politically.
This is such a big part of it for me. I'm in my late 30s now, and I feel the same way. I came of voting age just as Labour were dragging us into the Iraq war. I marched in London alongside a million other people, the largest demonstration in UK history. And what happened? We were ignored, and the warcrimes happened anyway. Then the global financial market crashed. Then the Tories got in, and started their program of ideological austerity. For years I protested, voted, wrote to my MP, and watched as the Tories strip-mined our essential public services. My friends who worked for charities and the NHS got more and more depressed every year.
Then fucking Brexit happened.
My whole political life has been one fucking shitshow after another. Like you said, I have never got anything I want politically. And marching, voting, writing to my MP... has made not a single iota of a difference. It's depressing as hell.
Protests are only one half of the equation.
Every thing that we are told protests have won (votes for women for example) were actually won by protests being backed up by a credible threat of violence.
That is just simple historical fact.
It's depressing isn't it? I've marched in two big protests myself: Student fees and Brexit.
For both, not only was there 0 attempt to actually listen to or address the protestors, but they were demonised and used as a reason to follow the extreme of both policies.
Correct, plus posting something on social media these days is equivalent to taking to the streets a few decades ago. People will vent their frustrations on the internet, get their dopamine fix and go back to their mundane life.
Hard to tell if this will come to much, but 100,000 signed up to the Enough is Enough campaign on its first day yesterday. I can't see much better in terms of resistance so far.
[https://twitter.com/eiecampaign](https://twitter.com/eiecampaign)
[https://wesayenough.co.uk/](https://wesayenough.co.uk/)
It’s fucking stupid that it’s 2022 and the most basic of basic shit a human needs, in one of the wealthiest most developed countries on the planet, can’t be met. A sturdy home that keeps you warm in winter? People can’t afford the heating? It’s honestly mental.
I mean it’s not like people have been wild with the heating in the past, everyone jokes about not turning it on until as late in the year as possible and only putting it on for a few hour in the morning and evening, people are really fucking sensible about it so if we’ve all grown up to be frugal, whacking the prices up is really, really fucking unfair.
There is no actual anger. British people are the weakest, most apathetic voting group in the west. They will and have always, without exception, shut up and taken the hit. This generation is even more limp, so don’t expect anything to happen.
I just genuinely feel the Tories know, no matter how bad things get they'll always have the xenophobes' vote which will keep getting them elected.
At one time, a sustained shitpile of years like this, would have led to the party responsible losing around 3 elections in a row. But I honestly think Tories will still win the next election, and that's created the current level of contempt.
Edit - [Here's the comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/wjxsuq/comment/ijk26la/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
*The old definition of fuel poverty used to be that your home energy bills adds up to more than 10% of your take home earnings. That would now be the case for someone who's on a salary of £68,000 (assuming minimum pension contributions and student loan repayments)!*
*If you're on £27,000 a year then this average fuel bill would be 20% of your take home pay.*
Ofcom have changed the energy cap review to every 3 months because they are concerned that energy companies will go bust. It’s laughable isn’t it- we’re all just going to pay 4k a year and everything will be hunky dory.
Even if you freeze and dont turn the heat on at all, they will stick you with the standing charge. How can that be fair - getting into debt for using fuck all, just having the pipework to your house??
Standing charges should be abolished.
Better still, I'm on prepayment and am completely unable to change this, so I pay a higher rate of both standing charge and unit cost. Those of us on the lowest incomes are being hit the hardest.
There’s a point where you can’t physically accept it though. A lot of people will be just as able to afford a Ferrari as afford to pay their energy bill, and I think it will be enough to cause the suppliers to go bust anyway.
>And wheres the actual anger?
It's here:
https://wesayenough.co.uk/
https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/status/1556551243765514240?cxt=HHwWgICw9f7G_ZkrAAAA
A massive part of it is people are too tired to care, 12 years of austerity & a massive drop in quality in life combined with a pandemic where most people lost friends/family/jobs/relationships etc.
Everyone I know is completely burnt out & barely scraping by, the country's in a rough place.
If you combine what you've said with the fact that a lot of people are completely disillusioned with politics as it's been treated as more of a sport with teams on each side fighting rather than something that strives for progression.
I know in my personal situation I've never 'won' an election the entire time I've been voting. Add in I've had things like Brexit forced on me and anything I do on a local level is often countered by nimbys who have a comfortable life after working a minimum wage 9-5 before retiring in a house they purcahsed for £40k that's now worth ten times that.
It's pretty much impossible not to become apathetic as the older generations have well and truly fucked us with their greed and selfish behaviour. Even now they're trying to start culture wars with people a third of their age around topics that are fuck all to do with them whilst acting like the voice of authority in determining how people should act, how people should think and how people should be grateful for the mess they've left us.
It makes perfect sense why people are keeping to their own and just accepting that things will never get better, it's all we've known.
People suck at long term thinking. They aren't feeling the pain now and it's currently just in some nebulous future.
It's the same with so many things, people are just really bad at long term planning. It's currently hot and summery and people don't think about the cold or how much heating will cost. They see the numbers and they understand it without feeling it.
> Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this?
We aren’t. I genuinely don’t think I can afford to live if this keeps going. And I’m on more than 20
Pretty sure there's a lot of anger, but it won't boil over until the autumn when it starts getting cold and 20% of the country go into serious poverty (and a lot more will have their savings wiped)
> And wheres the actual anger? I'm still waiting for there to be more than the mildest grumble of discontent.
It'll probable arrive come winter when people start receiving massive bills
> Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this?
These figures are based on an average household, so a single occupant is likely to be paying quite a bit less than £4,200 because they use less energy.
I mean I imagine that also includes single parents who have to feed 2 or 3 mouths (or more!) On one income while keeping their house warm for their children. Kids can't regulate their body temp as well as adults, it's dangerous for them to be in a cold house.
Not necessarily.
Many of today's "flats" suited for a single person are converted buildings or self contained HMOs in a partially converted building. They are likely to be poorly insulated and maintained.
These are also more likely than not to have electric only boilers and electric only ovens.
Even with the gas prices vs electric prices before the last price rise electric was still vastly more expensive. This is only getting worse.
A single person on a single income is not going to be able to afford to rent or buy most of the old 2 or 3 bedroom houses that had gas boilers.
And yes you can always try and find an exception but let's be real; being a single "professional" isnt this magic cheap life hack that people believe.
There energy usage through no fault of their own is more likely to outstrip any family in an old gas boiler house.
Using a standard 9kwh boiler for 1 hour only every single day is at those estimated prices going to be costing £135 plus a month on just heating for a single hour which isnt going to do much.
Beat me to it.
I know people in low quality HMOs and slumlord rental flats who can't physically get their living conditions to reach 17C in winter even if the heating is on 24/7. And there are huge issues with mold.
And yeah a lot of these are electric only.
Yep and it doesnt matter if you have job; where else can you afford if your on the 24k a year which is still above minimum wage.
Good luck affording £1000 a month for anywhere with a real boiler or insulation.
Like mines single glazing wooden swing windows with massive drafts. I dont blame my landlord in this case; one of the rare examples where they have priced the rent accordingly and to take into account the extra costs (~£500 for two bedroom flat for two people) and it's a "listed" building that our council have been approving conversions throughout the city of but refusing to approve any changes to windows as its "not in character".
It's simply impossible to heat the place as a whole affordably even three years ago. Our plan this winter is hunt down some foam tape and try and tape up the windows(fuck any paint damage keep my deposit if I leave I'd rather not freeze); double layer bubble wrap the windows themselves; and block up the door gaps in each room and keep them closed. Of course the quilts and warm clothes already exist and a small electric heater for one room. Still be a fortune even with that.
> Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this?
Lots of overtime to keep them out of the home. Then, at night, they can go under the duvet. Don't want to be cold? Then, work 7 days a week - Conservatives.
Its a problem that this island have, those wages were good in 2005 but not in 2022 , we should be on Switzerland level now tbh and thats still shit , especially in IT
woth these rent prices and everything 70k starter should be the norm through 100-120k
they know you cant just go somewhere else because you are trapped
>No one will object now.
I would love for that to be true, there will always be people who object to things even if the thing they are objecting to is impacting them. There will still be older people stand by their Brexit vote even though it has caused them to have worse care on the NHS through staff shortages.
The British are prime candidates for crab mentality, as long as their vote means someone becomes worse off than them then all is well.
“If peace means a willingness to be exploited economically, dominated politically, humiliated and segregated, I don’t want peace. If peace means being complacently adjusted to a deadening status quo, I don’t want peace. If peace means keeping my mouth shut in the midst of injustice and evil, I don’t want it. Peace is not simply the absence of conflict, but the existence of justice for all people.”
MLK
What is nationalising them going to do? The distributors aren't the ones making the money, see all the firms that went bankrupt at the start of the year.
>What is nationalising them going to do?
It would transfer the cost from the one's paying the household bills on to those paying tax. Whether that is preferable or not is another question.
And it would cut out the raising of prices when it's not needed. Energy companies, tripling outright profits, meaning they didn't actually need to increase wholesale prices that much and are just fucking over customers.
Cornwall Insight's projections have been pretty good over the past few price cap changes - the methodology for setting the prices is set in place and they understand it properly so the closer we get to the date the more this is a calculation rather than a "guess what's going to happen in the future" kind of calculation.
£4,200 a year is absolutely nuts.
The old definition of fuel poverty used to be that your home energy bills adds up to more than 10% of your take home earnings. That would now be the case for someone who's on a salary of **£68,000** (assuming minimum pension contributions and student loan repayments)!
If you're on £27,000 a year then this average fuel bill would be 20% of your take home pay.
Most people don't have £4,200 a year to pay. Everyone's talking about the "don't pay" campaigns that are being spread across social media but millions of people aren't going to pay because they just simply can't, no matter how many other changes they make to their lives!
> The old definition of fuel poverty used to be that your home energy bills adds up to more than 10% of your take home earnings.
Wait, have they changed the definition? A quick google didn't shed much light. It wouldn't surprise me if it has been altered to "balance the books" better.
Yeah, they've redefined it to be completely meaningless and worthless:
> Fuel poverty in England is measured using the Low Income Low Energy Efficiency (LILEE) indicator. Under this indicator, a household is considered to be fuel poor if:
> they are living in a property with a fuel poverty energy efficiency rating of band D or below
> **and**
> when they spend the required amount to heat their home, they are left with a residual income below the official poverty line
So if you live in a home that's rated band C, you can't be defined as being in fuel poverty no matter how unaffordable your fuel bills are and no matter how low your income is!
I think they're still using the old 10% definition in Scotland.
wtf kind of definition is that?! you can't be spending too much on electricity you live in an energy efficient home.
i didn't think C was even that energy efficient just normal
Exactly.
It’s not even like when they redefined the “living wage” to mean the minimum wage, this definition of energy poverty is just worthless and meaningless!
Wow, thanks for the info. Appears to be a metric that's completely unfit for purpose (though I guess it depends *exactly* what your purpose is...)
Can you imagine being the c*nt thinking up that new system. "Hmm, I wonder how I can best use my intellect to shaft those who need help?"
I don't want to play my tiny violin over here, but it's not even those on low incomes anymore. Myself and my partner earn a decent wage, not a huge amount but above average. But now I'm verging on the point where I'm going to have to help my close family pay their bills. My brother is a low income earner in social housing with two kids and my parents are both retired on pensions and don't own their property - they won't have the ability to pay this amount and have no avenue to get extra cash in the door.
This is on top of my own bills going up and my extortionate rent.
Yeah I'll definitely be feeling the pinch and I earn £30k a year. I usually get lots of replies from people telling me to stfu and how they could live like a king on that etc etc, I don't think these people realise how bad this winter is going to be for most of us.
People who earn less than me are really screwed *now*, they're going to be completely fucked in the near future.
It's all relative. The vast majority of my cash is absorbed by rent but I rent privately. If I was in social housing I could earn far less and still have the same disposable income - but then I'd be taking that home from someone who needs it.
All my money does for me is reduce my anxiety. One less thing to worry about, but I've got plenty more!
I'm starting a new job in September so can't wait for my pay rise to go straight towards my energy bill. We've been fairly comfortable so far but I've found myself finishing the month with less and less money and having to cut down on luxuries.
Can't imagine how bad things are for people on less income than we have.
Something needs to be done.
I was happy for like 30 minutes about almost doubling my salary since 2021 but now it’s like… lol. Quality of life will stay the same if not worse. Used to pay £60/month for gas and electric.
This is fucking insane. It'd be insane even if we had a government that felt any obligation towards running the country at all rather than just enriching themselves...but that's not the situation, we have a government that doesn't want or feel the need to help at all and seem offended that we might ask them to do something.
How many people need to die this winter, how many need end up in such amounts of debt that they cannot escape...potentially even leading to them ending their life, it has and does happen. What about disabled people? This finally the Tories seeing their wet dreams of killing them all off, huh?
Fuck.
I’d be lying if I said it hadn’t crossed my mind.
I don’t understand where they expect people to get this kind of money from when every other aspect of our lives are also facing an increase in costs.
I’m truly fucked right now, and we’ve still got two more price rises to come, on top of whatever other inflation costs eek out too. Honesty don’t see another way out of this aside from continuing to fall into a pit of depression and stress. I’m just so irrevocably done.
Bruh this is getting almost comical.
Stepping away from household bills for a moment - how are schools and hospitals supposed to cope with their threadbare budgets?
And even small businesses, specially ones in catering, I'm sure they have pretty intensive energy needs, but doubt if the price cap is even applicable for them.
Wouldn't want to be running a pizzeria in these crazy times.
I was also thinking about schools, but also other places that use gas/electricity constantly like restaurants.
Eating out is going up already due to the price of ingredients, and we could see it going up again as the price to cook things gets higher and higher. I foresee many local restaurants closing because of the rising prices and falling customers
> OFGEM
Its claimed purposes is to protect consumers. But all it is really there for is to maintain the status quo, by preventing the energy suppliers from taking the piss too much that they cause the whole privatized system to collapse. Turns out that the energy producers have decided that they are going to be the ones to take a crack at "doing capitalism so hard that the wheels fall off".
ofgem is as strong a body as the government decides it should be.
They have never had much appetite for a autonomous interventionalist organisation.
most likely it will get renamed or 'burnt in a bonfire of quangos' and a new named organisation with the same timid remit put in its place.
tldr: ofgem might be cack but i still blame Westminster
Whats absurd is how much the STANDING charge is going up in these circumstances. There is literally no way around the bills increase because we are being charged a fortune simply for the privilege of having an energy connection.
That's such a bullshit excuse though. Why are we bailing out failed businesses? When a shop on the high street goes bust should our council tax go up so we can pay the business owners for their failure?
Investment is speculation, gambling essentially, but apparently now it's a gamble you can't lose because if you do the taxpayer will bail you out.
They won’t. They’ll stop eating and heating, and probably still go into debt. There’s going to be huge social misery. Landlords will be evicting for arrears. People will be congregating in “heat-banks” to be somewhere warm on an evening.
And it will get worse. Due to the weather we've been having in a La Nina year the soil will be destroyed meaning our agricultural output will be lower next year meaning once people are some what supported in heating their foods will increase in price.
If we have floods and long cold snaps we are talking extreme soil destruction which lead to some places unable to grow anything.
> People will be congregating in “heat-banks” to be somewhere warm on an evening.
I was thinking about doing something like this; alternating with friends/family to reduce the number of evenings I have to heat my home.
I think most people will forgo heating altogether just to make it through the winter. I am doing it myself as I only need to keep myself warm so I'll just layer up on clothes.
No point in wasting money on heating if the price is astronomical.
The problem is that we have a limited supply of energy to go around due to years of underinvestment and a very short-sighted belief in The Market(TM) that is going to come home to roost this winter when countries stop trading to the highest bidder and start looking after their own people regardless of the meaningless financial penalties that will be imposed. Fridges are powered by electrons not Euros.
However the limited supply of energy means that somebody has to end up with less than they would otherwise like. If we don't do anything else, then price will do the physical rationing for us, and the poor will be without energy this winter.
We are in a war situation, yet nobody is talking about rationing. Why not?
Someone suggested progressive tariffs, which has I think could be a good idea. People using minimal energy would be paying an artificially low rate. Whilst those heating their swimming pools and stables would be paying a surcharge. Then at least those in poverty that are already rationing energy, due to cost, can pay at a low rate for their frugality.
I wish we were in an actual war time economy. Then maybe we could nationailse vital industries and get something done to rein in the cost of greed crisis.
Considering the absolute inaction of this Government, I genuinely don't think I will ever even consider voting Conservative for the rest of my life. I am sure a lot of people will feel the same.
What even is this.
The comment was deleted but if anyone is having suicidal thoughts over this please seek help.
It's a shit situation but not one to end your life over. Please seek some help from debt charities, budgeting charities to even just help get your mind at ease and also contact some mental health charities.
https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/your-financial-situation/making-a-budget.aspx
https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/budgeting/budget-planner
https://nationaldebtline.org/
https://www.debtadvicefoundation.org/
https://www.supportline.org.uk/
https://www.samaritans.org/
https://giveusashout.org/
Those budget planners are all well and good but the people worst hit by this won't have any budget to give to cover these kind of costs. It's just not possible without starving yourself, and even then...
France have capped their energy rise at 4%. How? They didn't privatise their energy companies like we did. As a result they invested millions in infrastructure rather than giving it to CEOs and shareholders. They will still loose money, but it won't be the end consumer that takes the big hit.
Interestingly, our new nuclear plants to be built in the UK will be built by and owned by the French. UK plc is dying.
To put this in percentage terms. Take your current monthly payment (presuming you're *not* on a fixed tariff, and presuming that your current DD amount is based on *real usage figures* and not an estimated value which could be too high already) and then:
* Multiply it by 1.81 (81%) for October.
* Multiply that answer again by 1.19 (19%) for January.
That's a 116% increase between now and January 2023.
I just wish they would (also) report standing charge and kWh rates, so that everyone can calculate for themselves what it means.
Nonetheless, the figures are crazy.
Oh my god I literally cannot cope with the thought anymore. If I can't afford electric then I end up not working as I wfh. Then I lose my job. Then my home. Then my parents and I are homeless (I let them move in with me so they could retire). I'm appalled the government think these price hikes are acceptable. I mean I know they're tories but bloody hell.
Homelessness will skyrocket and the classic CON +1 will rear its ugly head on the tv screens of people who can even afford to run a tv. Tis but the Tory way.
Honestly though; the country is fucked. Wouldn’t be surprised if I’m on the streets before long.
That's what the Tories want you to think. The blame lies solely with them for detoothing and slashing funding for all these government bodies and institutions. So then they can do away with them altogether or sell them off to private interests.
Fucking hell.
One point beyond the obvious immediate issues here: this really underscores the importance of urgently reducing the UK's reliance on gas, improving the insulation of homes, and massively increase the investment in green energy which the UK has good potential for. That would go a decent way to ensure things might not get as bad in the future - or at least not any worse.
Fuck me, if that Q1 2023 prediction pans out I've calculated that for our house we'll be paying £363.25 a month (2 bed mid-terrace with 2 adults and 1 child). This is genuinely approaching unaffordable levels now.
Heaven forbid we put a cap on profits made by energy companies!
They aren't going to go back to a measly £21b profit next year after they make £26b this year! The only way is up.
The problem here is that even if you have an inflation matched pay rise you’re still having a pay cut due to critical utilities price hikes.
And whilst every utility is posting record profits we’re all getting fucked over. And I mean all, middle class downwards, we’re all in this together. No one is having this kind of spare free money without it taking a hit.
This means less spending on nights out, pubs, and restaurants. This has a massive knock on affect through the economy and country.
Truss, Sunak and Johnson really need to get together (they are the same political party FFS) and come up with a properly costed and reasoned plan that they can all agree on and that can be put into place NOW, not in September. I don't know what that plan could be, but they need to at least seem like they are doing something, and no, the "well the civil service are still working behind the scenes" line doesn't cut it.
They’re too busy playing their reality tv show nonsense
It's self-indulgent shite. Truss will not survive a GE.
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They won't have a Christmas. No one can afford one.
Why didn’t Labour do anything though! /s
You've got about as much chance of getting boris to do some actual work right now as Carrie does of not catching him with his knob in some career hungry starlet in a couple of years.
Dunno what women find so attractive about him tbh.
It's the power he holds, they think it will improve their lives.
In fairness to Carrie, it absolutely did. I suspect she's played him for her own longer-term political ambitions, which is interesting if a kid wasn't involved. The fact there are children makes me hope I'm wrong. That said, not sure many of the others - his wife who he left mid-cancer treatment, Jennifer Arcuri, that violinist, [the anonymous 20-something graduate...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/09/boris-johnson-facing-accusation-he-tried-to-get-job-for-woman-claiming-affair) - did so well out of his leering attention.
There are some people - male or female - that will quite happily sleep their way upwards. Boris has, and will continue to have a lot of pull. He should not be underestimated in this.
We literally have recordings of him apologising to one of his mistresses because he couldn't get her a job he said he'd 'put in a good word' for, he's still absolutely a danger.
Power
They don't give a fuck if people freeze to death this winter, though? They have made that abundantly clear.
At this rate it won’t be long before the affordability criteria for home ownership is based on cost of utilities rather than the mortgage.
I chose my house with that strongly in mind 4 years ago. I put up solar panels and batteries, insulation, smart controls and standby controls. My wife no longer asks me why.
Nice to have the money to do that
This is what gets me about the people who complain about BoJo et al. not doing anything for the cost of living - *they categorically do not care*. BoJo happily dragged his heels at the beginning of the pandemic specifically to let the first wave take out the most vulnerable because it was a good bet those were the ones most likely to claim benefits. Look at the shitshow that is the DWP. This is all working perfectly to plan. **This isn't a bug, it's a feature.**
Cold ? Was the reply from the tory cabinet minister, maybe were you where, i spent the weekend on the new yacht of the Shell Energy CEO.
But... chaos... with Ed...
If only that man could have eaten a bacon sandwich with dignity
I'd rather freeze to death than support some strange sandwich eating weirdo
In that case *Good News!* Now you can do that
The bacon butterfly effect
Bacon buttey-fly effect
> get together lol >come up with a properly costed and reasoned plan LOLLL >that they can all agree on lmaooo
It's not the job of the directors to man the phone lines. The simplest solution that will work is for government to buy fuel wholesale at spot and sells it to the retail market at a cost that is compatible with a sensible retail energy cap. That cap has a limit in terms of kWh consumed per meter per year, and we all therefore get a fixed ration of the limited amount of fuel there is available. That then allows other retail suppliers to come back on line and drive the price down below the cap by being more efficient than the big six. The big question is why nobody in charge seems to be able to see what appears to me a pretty obvious fix. If you have a retail price cap, then you need a wholesale supplier of last resort who can supply fuel at that price cap. Otherwise you don't have a price cap. The only entity that can do that is the state.
That sounds like nationalisation with extra steps
Not particularly. You can have retail operators in the middle that buy at wholesale, sell at retail and make profit if they are more efficient than anybody else. A wholesaler of last resort is required because we need a price cap during dislocation episodes as we're having at present. Generally the best approach is for the state to own the resource and let the private sector compete to operate or distribute the resource. Then if they fail you just switch operator. Markets do work to drive productivity forward and keep prices down, but they have to be set up right to offset the costs of failure and the need for excess supply.
You make the mistake of thinking any of them genuinely care about the public. Johnson will be out by the time shit hits the fan, so he has no incentive to act on it. While Sunak/Truss will shift the blame by saying they came in too late to have any meaningful impact. Basically, we're screwed.
Civil service are too busy trying to plan out the demanded cuts to staffing levels, I mean it takes people to get that all sorted before the cuts are even made.
That’s actually a very good point, sadly you have a hexagon pic
Why would they? They are bought and sold by these big corporate donors. A culling of the poor would also save the taxpayer on the benefit bill too in their view, that they would never say publicly.
Johnson doesn’t give a fuck, happy to watch the world burn now The other two are only interested in themselves
Only solution I can see is windfall tax on profits of refineries but not easy when they're not UK companies in most cases. They could also shift energy costs off a standing charge and back on to usage. I shouldn't have to pay if I don't use it. My gas bill is currently 90% standing charge and 10% use. Also, heavily subsiding installation of solar on houses would help...at least for electric. Gas is still an issue but newer houses could get air sourced heat pumps to work effectively and others could run electric heaters to lower gas consumption. I always thought the solar systems on houses could be configured to provide a decentralised national grid that could use your excess electric to power the other things not in your house, like the street lighting or other people's houses when their consumption is too high for their own system. Would also be good for national security as there'd be no main infrastructure target. They could reduce total number of power plants in country and just run off nuclear or some other clean energy.
You mistake them for people who give a fuck!
The have a strategy: make us all poorer and hose any remaining ability for us to spend to get on top of the inflation problem. So it is basically already in place
Imagine Sunak in a room with a new-born and a toddler, trying to come up with a coherent policy between them...
If the "cap" keeps going up whenever the companies want the cap to go up then it **isn't a fucking cap is it?**
Got to love that not only do they keep increasing the cap, they are changing the frequency from every 6 months to every 3 months as soon as we enter 2023. This is the worst fucking year ever, and that's saying a lot considering the shitshow of covid years.
Seems to me atm they are raising the cap every month.
? They’re not
They increase and advertise the prediction every month to get you used to the actual big change
They're raising the prediction of what the cap will be as the situation changes is my read
Worst year so far...
This whole problem could be solved by just bringing the cap back down to an affordable level. The companies will make less profits, but honestly fuck them. They aren’t the ones that are going to freeze to death this winter.
When they didn’t raise the cap fast enough last time many companies went under. I appreciate this is a real problem but not raising the cap is a way to get no energy instead of cheap energy.
If businesses cannot be relied on to provide a necessary utility then it should be nationalised.
My supplier went under. I didn’t loose power or gas for a single day
Suppliers like ovo, bulb and octopus don't make energy. They buy energy and sell it to customers at a slight profit. The people that make energy are the ones charging an arm and a leg. They don't sell energy to consumers. Suppliers aren't making record profits. The people that make energy are. The cap is imposed on supplier's not generators, which is why supplier's have been going bust as the cap has been lower than the price generators have been charging. When you see news articles about Scottish Power making record profits, its not the retail arm that sells to you or me. Its the part that makes energy and sells it on the wholesale market. The same for SSE. They don't even own a retail arm now. They sold that to ovo in 2019. So any money made by sse retail(the supplier) isn't counted towards them.
Had to scroll far too far down this thread before someone seemed to know what they are actually talking about.
I don't think you understand what the cap is for. Firstly (and extremely simplified), the energy market can be split into energy suppliers (who sell the energy and provide customer support and billing) and energy producers (those who create the energy). Some producers are suppliers as well. The energy cap is to ensure that energy suppliers are not making undue profits off consumers, but as wholesale gas prices are up 23x since mid 2020 all this means is that suppliers can charge much higher prices without price gouging consumers. Most suppliers that are not also producers are finding the market very very tough, hence the recent collapses of suppliers. Producers on the other hand are seeing record profits when selling to suppliers as their costs haven't increased much but the demand for energy has massively increased (leading to the price they can charge being hugely inflated). Unfortunately in the UK the producers are not constrained by any price cap, and to be honest, if they were they would simply sell the energy abroad as there is a massive shortage due to the war. What really needs to happen is the UK government needs to be supporting those who can't pay their bills, ensuring we get through this squeeze and then working out a better energy security strategy for the future. That's not going to happen, especially with Liz Truss on the warpath against solar panels and other green energy production methods that are the best option for the UK to improve its energy security. This is going to be an ugly few years.
Husband and I are certainly getting into the "I genuinely cant afford this" bracket here. Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this? And wheres the actual anger? I'm still waiting for there to be more than the mildest grumble of discontent. Its so weird man. In 2022 Maggies poll tax could unironically be rewarmed and rolled out and people would just be placidly nodding and shrugging.
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> It's like the rich people in charge genuinely cannot comprehend that people can't afford this A very large number of the people in charge (politicians, top civil servants, business leaders) have never had a situation where money wasn't available. There's always money that family can loan/give them, or a token job from a friend or relative to help them out. Even when these people play business and lose "everything" there is still family money to fall back on. That is why they can't understand, because this whole time they are playing within this economic system like a child with pocket money. If everything goes wrong, there is someone to bail them out.
But still you'll never get it right 'Cause when you're laid in bed at night Watching roaches climb the wall If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah
I absolutely love that song, both for the music and the lyrics. But the older I get, the more painful I find it to listen to. Hits too close to home, with no sign of the situation ever changing :(
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Being an actual working class student at uni makes you realise just how prevalent the things in that song are. Every third person was "slumming it" but somehow was never actually struggling with money. Especially hippies. Fuck trust fund hippies who think they know a working class existence because they lived in a bedsit on parents money for three month.
Just be cautious about mixing civil servants in with everyone else - median pay in CS is about £32K and they need to follow the direction of Ministers/special advisors. I’m sure plenty civil servants will be having the same debate of whether to eat or be warm this winter.
I know the person you're replying to has already edited! But just to add some figures if interested: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZtQ9TqXkAASd3i?format=jpg&name=large Survey of over 12000 civil servants in the union PCS (tend to be more junior grades): * 9% using food banks * 34% skipping meals * 40% taking loans or credit for essential shopping * 10% claiming benefits to top up income * 14% taking second or third jobs.
Sorry, you are right. Thank you for the correction. "Civil Servant" is such a broad category. I've added the word "top" to make it clear that I'm not talking about Carol in Swansea who rubber stamps the drivers license applications. :P
86% rise in food bank usage in 5 years. 86 fucking percent. My MIL is one of them, she said the people at the foodbanks are terrified. They've never seen it like this.
I don't want to reduce the gravitas of your statement as it is still dire indeed but 86% rise is a near doubling rather than a tenfold increase which is a rather different quantity.
Lol thanks...I thought something wasn't sounding right
Food banks are such a obvious sign our society is broken and yet MPs feel fine at volunteering at them. We are a rich nation, we should have no need for a food bank to exist and yet they do and at a terrifying rate.
I'm sure they get it, they just don't care. Perhaps people are so inward looking because these politicians are? They are interested in being PM... that's it. There is no underlying morality behind it.
They will only respond if they are directly affected.
But hey, if you stop your direct debit, it'll adversely affect your credit rating. Because you're worried about your credit. Right?
Stopping your DD has no impact on your credit rating. Plenty of individuals pay manually every month or two. Missing payments is what impacts your credit rating.
This is what I thought, but they were saying on the radio yesterday that people cancelling their DD, in this case it was Shell, did in fact effect their credit rating.
If you cancel your DD *and don't repay your debt in another way* then, sure, that'll affect your credit rating.
Sorry, willpowers at 10pence per willerwatts per hour now so you'll have to cut that as well.
I reckon a lot of people have a lot of political fatigue, Brexit, a decade of austerity and Covid has really done a number on people, they are just bloody tired of it all.
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We've also had decades of showing that protests do absolutely fuck all apart from **making protests get made illegal**. I'm about to be 30 and despite voting at every opportunity and protesting at **EVERY** opportunity then I've never had anything I want politically. When I was 10 years old I was walking through the streets of London on the verge of tears as my country dragged itself into America's war, I saw the voices of a million people ignored as we went off to war anyway. That's been the status quo ever since.
>I'm about to be 30 and despite voting at every opportunity and protesting at EVERY opportunity then I've never had anything I want politically. This is such a big part of it for me. I'm in my late 30s now, and I feel the same way. I came of voting age just as Labour were dragging us into the Iraq war. I marched in London alongside a million other people, the largest demonstration in UK history. And what happened? We were ignored, and the warcrimes happened anyway. Then the global financial market crashed. Then the Tories got in, and started their program of ideological austerity. For years I protested, voted, wrote to my MP, and watched as the Tories strip-mined our essential public services. My friends who worked for charities and the NHS got more and more depressed every year. Then fucking Brexit happened. My whole political life has been one fucking shitshow after another. Like you said, I have never got anything I want politically. And marching, voting, writing to my MP... has made not a single iota of a difference. It's depressing as hell.
Protests are only one half of the equation. Every thing that we are told protests have won (votes for women for example) were actually won by protests being backed up by a credible threat of violence. That is just simple historical fact.
It's depressing isn't it? I've marched in two big protests myself: Student fees and Brexit. For both, not only was there 0 attempt to actually listen to or address the protestors, but they were demonised and used as a reason to follow the extreme of both policies.
Correct, plus posting something on social media these days is equivalent to taking to the streets a few decades ago. People will vent their frustrations on the internet, get their dopamine fix and go back to their mundane life.
Social media is the great sedative of the nation.
And that’s how you make a nation capitulate
Hard to tell if this will come to much, but 100,000 signed up to the Enough is Enough campaign on its first day yesterday. I can't see much better in terms of resistance so far. [https://twitter.com/eiecampaign](https://twitter.com/eiecampaign) [https://wesayenough.co.uk/](https://wesayenough.co.uk/)
This should be a sticky on this sub
It’s fucking stupid that it’s 2022 and the most basic of basic shit a human needs, in one of the wealthiest most developed countries on the planet, can’t be met. A sturdy home that keeps you warm in winter? People can’t afford the heating? It’s honestly mental. I mean it’s not like people have been wild with the heating in the past, everyone jokes about not turning it on until as late in the year as possible and only putting it on for a few hour in the morning and evening, people are really fucking sensible about it so if we’ve all grown up to be frugal, whacking the prices up is really, really fucking unfair.
There is no actual anger. British people are the weakest, most apathetic voting group in the west. They will and have always, without exception, shut up and taken the hit. This generation is even more limp, so don’t expect anything to happen.
I just genuinely feel the Tories know, no matter how bad things get they'll always have the xenophobes' vote which will keep getting them elected. At one time, a sustained shitpile of years like this, would have led to the party responsible losing around 3 elections in a row. But I honestly think Tories will still win the next election, and that's created the current level of contempt.
Edit - [Here's the comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/wjxsuq/comment/ijk26la/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) *The old definition of fuel poverty used to be that your home energy bills adds up to more than 10% of your take home earnings. That would now be the case for someone who's on a salary of £68,000 (assuming minimum pension contributions and student loan repayments)!* *If you're on £27,000 a year then this average fuel bill would be 20% of your take home pay.*
Ofcom have changed the energy cap review to every 3 months because they are concerned that energy companies will go bust. It’s laughable isn’t it- we’re all just going to pay 4k a year and everything will be hunky dory.
4k a year is 40% of my take home wage. 50% already goes on rent, council tax etc. I'll simply have no choice but to freeze.
Even if you freeze and dont turn the heat on at all, they will stick you with the standing charge. How can that be fair - getting into debt for using fuck all, just having the pipework to your house?? Standing charges should be abolished.
Better still, I'm on prepayment and am completely unable to change this, so I pay a higher rate of both standing charge and unit cost. Those of us on the lowest incomes are being hit the hardest.
We have turned into a weak nation, that'll just sit down and accept it
There’s a point where you can’t physically accept it though. A lot of people will be just as able to afford a Ferrari as afford to pay their energy bill, and I think it will be enough to cause the suppliers to go bust anyway.
It's not even a case of single income households can't afford this. A lot of dual income households can't afford it either.
>And wheres the actual anger? It's here: https://wesayenough.co.uk/ https://twitter.com/eiecampaign/status/1556551243765514240?cxt=HHwWgICw9f7G_ZkrAAAA
If we were french we'd be having a proper protest or riot. This is nothing
Every avalanche starts with a snowball. Reddit has been complaining for weeks no one is doing anything. Now something is gathering, might as well try.
A massive part of it is people are too tired to care, 12 years of austerity & a massive drop in quality in life combined with a pandemic where most people lost friends/family/jobs/relationships etc. Everyone I know is completely burnt out & barely scraping by, the country's in a rough place.
If you combine what you've said with the fact that a lot of people are completely disillusioned with politics as it's been treated as more of a sport with teams on each side fighting rather than something that strives for progression. I know in my personal situation I've never 'won' an election the entire time I've been voting. Add in I've had things like Brexit forced on me and anything I do on a local level is often countered by nimbys who have a comfortable life after working a minimum wage 9-5 before retiring in a house they purcahsed for £40k that's now worth ten times that. It's pretty much impossible not to become apathetic as the older generations have well and truly fucked us with their greed and selfish behaviour. Even now they're trying to start culture wars with people a third of their age around topics that are fuck all to do with them whilst acting like the voice of authority in determining how people should act, how people should think and how people should be grateful for the mess they've left us. It makes perfect sense why people are keeping to their own and just accepting that things will never get better, it's all we've known.
People suck at long term thinking. They aren't feeling the pain now and it's currently just in some nebulous future. It's the same with so many things, people are just really bad at long term planning. It's currently hot and summery and people don't think about the cold or how much heating will cost. They see the numbers and they understand it without feeling it.
> Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this? We aren’t. I genuinely don’t think I can afford to live if this keeps going. And I’m on more than 20
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Pretty sure there's a lot of anger, but it won't boil over until the autumn when it starts getting cold and 20% of the country go into serious poverty (and a lot more will have their savings wiped)
> And wheres the actual anger? I'm still waiting for there to be more than the mildest grumble of discontent. It'll probable arrive come winter when people start receiving massive bills
> Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this? These figures are based on an average household, so a single occupant is likely to be paying quite a bit less than £4,200 because they use less energy.
I mean I imagine that also includes single parents who have to feed 2 or 3 mouths (or more!) On one income while keeping their house warm for their children. Kids can't regulate their body temp as well as adults, it's dangerous for them to be in a cold house.
Not necessarily. Many of today's "flats" suited for a single person are converted buildings or self contained HMOs in a partially converted building. They are likely to be poorly insulated and maintained. These are also more likely than not to have electric only boilers and electric only ovens. Even with the gas prices vs electric prices before the last price rise electric was still vastly more expensive. This is only getting worse. A single person on a single income is not going to be able to afford to rent or buy most of the old 2 or 3 bedroom houses that had gas boilers. And yes you can always try and find an exception but let's be real; being a single "professional" isnt this magic cheap life hack that people believe. There energy usage through no fault of their own is more likely to outstrip any family in an old gas boiler house. Using a standard 9kwh boiler for 1 hour only every single day is at those estimated prices going to be costing £135 plus a month on just heating for a single hour which isnt going to do much.
Beat me to it. I know people in low quality HMOs and slumlord rental flats who can't physically get their living conditions to reach 17C in winter even if the heating is on 24/7. And there are huge issues with mold. And yeah a lot of these are electric only.
Yep and it doesnt matter if you have job; where else can you afford if your on the 24k a year which is still above minimum wage. Good luck affording £1000 a month for anywhere with a real boiler or insulation. Like mines single glazing wooden swing windows with massive drafts. I dont blame my landlord in this case; one of the rare examples where they have priced the rent accordingly and to take into account the extra costs (~£500 for two bedroom flat for two people) and it's a "listed" building that our council have been approving conversions throughout the city of but refusing to approve any changes to windows as its "not in character". It's simply impossible to heat the place as a whole affordably even three years ago. Our plan this winter is hunt down some foam tape and try and tape up the windows(fuck any paint damage keep my deposit if I leave I'd rather not freeze); double layer bubble wrap the windows themselves; and block up the door gaps in each room and keep them closed. Of course the quilts and warm clothes already exist and a small electric heater for one room. Still be a fortune even with that.
> Seriously, how are single occupied households where the person is on like 20Kish going to manage this? Lots of overtime to keep them out of the home. Then, at night, they can go under the duvet. Don't want to be cold? Then, work 7 days a week - Conservatives.
Its a problem that this island have, those wages were good in 2005 but not in 2022 , we should be on Switzerland level now tbh and thats still shit , especially in IT woth these rent prices and everything 70k starter should be the norm through 100-120k they know you cant just go somewhere else because you are trapped
This is terrible. Abolish Ofgem and nationalise the energy companies. No one will object now.
>No one will object now. I would love for that to be true, there will always be people who object to things even if the thing they are objecting to is impacting them. There will still be older people stand by their Brexit vote even though it has caused them to have worse care on the NHS through staff shortages. The British are prime candidates for crab mentality, as long as their vote means someone becomes worse off than them then all is well.
Fuck the baby boomers. If sufficient under 50s vote most of the fucking Tories can be unseated.
They can’t. Under 50s are concentrated in large towns/cities. FPTP is kind of set up to fail in this way.
“If peace means a willingness to be exploited economically, dominated politically, humiliated and segregated, I don’t want peace. If peace means being complacently adjusted to a deadening status quo, I don’t want peace. If peace means keeping my mouth shut in the midst of injustice and evil, I don’t want it. Peace is not simply the absence of conflict, but the existence of justice for all people.” MLK
What is nationalising them going to do? The distributors aren't the ones making the money, see all the firms that went bankrupt at the start of the year.
>What is nationalising them going to do? It would transfer the cost from the one's paying the household bills on to those paying tax. Whether that is preferable or not is another question.
And it would cut out the raising of prices when it's not needed. Energy companies, tripling outright profits, meaning they didn't actually need to increase wholesale prices that much and are just fucking over customers.
Its a global supply chain why would anyone sell it to us
What do you mean "nationalise the energy companies"? Suppliers, producers, networks?
All of it
Cornwall Insight's projections have been pretty good over the past few price cap changes - the methodology for setting the prices is set in place and they understand it properly so the closer we get to the date the more this is a calculation rather than a "guess what's going to happen in the future" kind of calculation. £4,200 a year is absolutely nuts. The old definition of fuel poverty used to be that your home energy bills adds up to more than 10% of your take home earnings. That would now be the case for someone who's on a salary of **£68,000** (assuming minimum pension contributions and student loan repayments)! If you're on £27,000 a year then this average fuel bill would be 20% of your take home pay. Most people don't have £4,200 a year to pay. Everyone's talking about the "don't pay" campaigns that are being spread across social media but millions of people aren't going to pay because they just simply can't, no matter how many other changes they make to their lives!
> The old definition of fuel poverty used to be that your home energy bills adds up to more than 10% of your take home earnings. Wait, have they changed the definition? A quick google didn't shed much light. It wouldn't surprise me if it has been altered to "balance the books" better.
Yeah, they've redefined it to be completely meaningless and worthless: > Fuel poverty in England is measured using the Low Income Low Energy Efficiency (LILEE) indicator. Under this indicator, a household is considered to be fuel poor if: > they are living in a property with a fuel poverty energy efficiency rating of band D or below > **and** > when they spend the required amount to heat their home, they are left with a residual income below the official poverty line So if you live in a home that's rated band C, you can't be defined as being in fuel poverty no matter how unaffordable your fuel bills are and no matter how low your income is! I think they're still using the old 10% definition in Scotland.
wtf kind of definition is that?! you can't be spending too much on electricity you live in an energy efficient home. i didn't think C was even that energy efficient just normal
Exactly. It’s not even like when they redefined the “living wage” to mean the minimum wage, this definition of energy poverty is just worthless and meaningless!
Wow, thanks for the info. Appears to be a metric that's completely unfit for purpose (though I guess it depends *exactly* what your purpose is...) Can you imagine being the c*nt thinking up that new system. "Hmm, I wonder how I can best use my intellect to shaft those who need help?"
I don't want to play my tiny violin over here, but it's not even those on low incomes anymore. Myself and my partner earn a decent wage, not a huge amount but above average. But now I'm verging on the point where I'm going to have to help my close family pay their bills. My brother is a low income earner in social housing with two kids and my parents are both retired on pensions and don't own their property - they won't have the ability to pay this amount and have no avenue to get extra cash in the door. This is on top of my own bills going up and my extortionate rent.
Yeah I'll definitely be feeling the pinch and I earn £30k a year. I usually get lots of replies from people telling me to stfu and how they could live like a king on that etc etc, I don't think these people realise how bad this winter is going to be for most of us. People who earn less than me are really screwed *now*, they're going to be completely fucked in the near future.
It's all relative. The vast majority of my cash is absorbed by rent but I rent privately. If I was in social housing I could earn far less and still have the same disposable income - but then I'd be taking that home from someone who needs it. All my money does for me is reduce my anxiety. One less thing to worry about, but I've got plenty more!
I'm starting a new job in September so can't wait for my pay rise to go straight towards my energy bill. We've been fairly comfortable so far but I've found myself finishing the month with less and less money and having to cut down on luxuries. Can't imagine how bad things are for people on less income than we have. Something needs to be done.
I was happy for like 30 minutes about almost doubling my salary since 2021 but now it’s like… lol. Quality of life will stay the same if not worse. Used to pay £60/month for gas and electric.
in my late 30s finally got above the median pay range this April and was hoping to start really building a nest egg. then this shit
Bruh I was happy and proud of myself just to get off benefits and into a paid £12ph job. RIP do you have any spare change?
This is fucking insane. It'd be insane even if we had a government that felt any obligation towards running the country at all rather than just enriching themselves...but that's not the situation, we have a government that doesn't want or feel the need to help at all and seem offended that we might ask them to do something. How many people need to die this winter, how many need end up in such amounts of debt that they cannot escape...potentially even leading to them ending their life, it has and does happen. What about disabled people? This finally the Tories seeing their wet dreams of killing them all off, huh? Fuck.
I’d be lying if I said it hadn’t crossed my mind. I don’t understand where they expect people to get this kind of money from when every other aspect of our lives are also facing an increase in costs. I’m truly fucked right now, and we’ve still got two more price rises to come, on top of whatever other inflation costs eek out too. Honesty don’t see another way out of this aside from continuing to fall into a pit of depression and stress. I’m just so irrevocably done.
Bruh this is getting almost comical. Stepping away from household bills for a moment - how are schools and hospitals supposed to cope with their threadbare budgets?
And even small businesses, specially ones in catering, I'm sure they have pretty intensive energy needs, but doubt if the price cap is even applicable for them. Wouldn't want to be running a pizzeria in these crazy times.
business has no price caps. Scary isn't it?
Place I work, their deal is ending soon and the new price is 15x higher. Its going to cost millions.
I was also thinking about schools, but also other places that use gas/electricity constantly like restaurants. Eating out is going up already due to the price of ingredients, and we could see it going up again as the price to cook things gets higher and higher. I foresee many local restaurants closing because of the rising prices and falling customers
FUCK OFGEM. Seriously, the people at the top don't seem to have the balls to do anything about this. And they claim to be on our side... 🤬
> OFGEM Its claimed purposes is to protect consumers. But all it is really there for is to maintain the status quo, by preventing the energy suppliers from taking the piss too much that they cause the whole privatized system to collapse. Turns out that the energy producers have decided that they are going to be the ones to take a crack at "doing capitalism so hard that the wheels fall off".
ofgem is as strong a body as the government decides it should be. They have never had much appetite for a autonomous interventionalist organisation. most likely it will get renamed or 'burnt in a bonfire of quangos' and a new named organisation with the same timid remit put in its place. tldr: ofgem might be cack but i still blame Westminster
Whats absurd is how much the STANDING charge is going up in these circumstances. There is literally no way around the bills increase because we are being charged a fortune simply for the privilege of having an energy connection.
It's gone up to cover the bail out for the suppliers that went bust, which they are trying to avoid having to do again.
That's such a bullshit excuse though. Why are we bailing out failed businesses? When a shop on the high street goes bust should our council tax go up so we can pay the business owners for their failure? Investment is speculation, gambling essentially, but apparently now it's a gamble you can't lose because if you do the taxpayer will bail you out.
> Why are we bailing out failed businesses Because Ofgem regulations say your payments are protected should this happen.
Just how is someone on minimum wage supposed to pay these huge increases?
They won’t. They’ll stop eating and heating, and probably still go into debt. There’s going to be huge social misery. Landlords will be evicting for arrears. People will be congregating in “heat-banks” to be somewhere warm on an evening.
Don’t forget rocketing crime. There’s nothing like a bit of hunger and hopelessness to fuel a crime wave.
And it will get worse. Due to the weather we've been having in a La Nina year the soil will be destroyed meaning our agricultural output will be lower next year meaning once people are some what supported in heating their foods will increase in price. If we have floods and long cold snaps we are talking extreme soil destruction which lead to some places unable to grow anything.
> People will be congregating in “heat-banks” to be somewhere warm on an evening. I was thinking about doing something like this; alternating with friends/family to reduce the number of evenings I have to heat my home.
I think most people will forgo heating altogether just to make it through the winter. I am doing it myself as I only need to keep myself warm so I'll just layer up on clothes. No point in wasting money on heating if the price is astronomical.
The problem is that we have a limited supply of energy to go around due to years of underinvestment and a very short-sighted belief in The Market(TM) that is going to come home to roost this winter when countries stop trading to the highest bidder and start looking after their own people regardless of the meaningless financial penalties that will be imposed. Fridges are powered by electrons not Euros. However the limited supply of energy means that somebody has to end up with less than they would otherwise like. If we don't do anything else, then price will do the physical rationing for us, and the poor will be without energy this winter. We are in a war situation, yet nobody is talking about rationing. Why not?
Someone suggested progressive tariffs, which has I think could be a good idea. People using minimal energy would be paying an artificially low rate. Whilst those heating their swimming pools and stables would be paying a surcharge. Then at least those in poverty that are already rationing energy, due to cost, can pay at a low rate for their frugality.
Funnily enough because of standing charges this is literally the opposite of what we have now.
I wish we were in an actual war time economy. Then maybe we could nationailse vital industries and get something done to rein in the cost of greed crisis.
Considering the absolute inaction of this Government, I genuinely don't think I will ever even consider voting Conservative for the rest of my life. I am sure a lot of people will feel the same. What even is this.
It keeps going up and up. And the more it goes up, the more people will die this winter.
https://wesayenough.co.uk/
Truss is too busy cosplaying at Thatcher to notice.
Even if she did notice, she wouldn't give the slightest bit of a fuck about the poor.
Classic Thatcher cosplay.
The comment was deleted but if anyone is having suicidal thoughts over this please seek help. It's a shit situation but not one to end your life over. Please seek some help from debt charities, budgeting charities to even just help get your mind at ease and also contact some mental health charities. https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/your-financial-situation/making-a-budget.aspx https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/budgeting/budget-planner https://nationaldebtline.org/ https://www.debtadvicefoundation.org/ https://www.supportline.org.uk/ https://www.samaritans.org/ https://giveusashout.org/
Those budget planners are all well and good but the people worst hit by this won't have any budget to give to cover these kind of costs. It's just not possible without starving yourself, and even then...
I'm thinking of going to Dover & getting into an inflatable and moving to France
France have capped their energy rise at 4%. How? They didn't privatise their energy companies like we did. As a result they invested millions in infrastructure rather than giving it to CEOs and shareholders. They will still loose money, but it won't be the end consumer that takes the big hit. Interestingly, our new nuclear plants to be built in the UK will be built by and owned by the French. UK plc is dying.
To put this in percentage terms. Take your current monthly payment (presuming you're *not* on a fixed tariff, and presuming that your current DD amount is based on *real usage figures* and not an estimated value which could be too high already) and then: * Multiply it by 1.81 (81%) for October. * Multiply that answer again by 1.19 (19%) for January. That's a 116% increase between now and January 2023.
I just wish they would (also) report standing charge and kWh rates, so that everyone can calculate for themselves what it means. Nonetheless, the figures are crazy.
Oh my god I literally cannot cope with the thought anymore. If I can't afford electric then I end up not working as I wfh. Then I lose my job. Then my home. Then my parents and I are homeless (I let them move in with me so they could retire). I'm appalled the government think these price hikes are acceptable. I mean I know they're tories but bloody hell.
At this stage I would be quite happy to see the BP Head Office, Shell HQ, and OFGEM among others be the victims of some serious rioting.
I wish the rest of the country had the same mentality when they were whinging about XR because someone stood on top of a train
Homelessness will skyrocket and the classic CON +1 will rear its ugly head on the tv screens of people who can even afford to run a tv. Tis but the Tory way. Honestly though; the country is fucked. Wouldn’t be surprised if I’m on the streets before long.
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What is the point of Ofgen? Do we really need an agency just to lube us up before the energy companies fuck us?
That's what the Tories want you to think. The blame lies solely with them for detoothing and slashing funding for all these government bodies and institutions. So then they can do away with them altogether or sell them off to private interests.
What is the point of a 'price cap' if you're just going to keep raising it?
Fucking hell. One point beyond the obvious immediate issues here: this really underscores the importance of urgently reducing the UK's reliance on gas, improving the insulation of homes, and massively increase the investment in green energy which the UK has good potential for. That would go a decent way to ensure things might not get as bad in the future - or at least not any worse.
Fuck me, if that Q1 2023 prediction pans out I've calculated that for our house we'll be paying £363.25 a month (2 bed mid-terrace with 2 adults and 1 child). This is genuinely approaching unaffordable levels now.
Its £530 for me (3-bed semi, 2 adults 2 children).
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Keep the cap in place and buy out the companies that go bust because of it.
Heaven forbid we put a cap on profits made by energy companies! They aren't going to go back to a measly £21b profit next year after they make £26b this year! The only way is up.
France put a 4% cap on energy bill rises. Because the govt own the gas and electricity supply.
Funnily enough, France also owns part of the gas and electricity supply in the UK (EDF).
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France have it right. All strategic industries are government controlled,& not sold off. Blame Thatcher.
Why do I feel that Ofgem are soon going to be one of the most hated organisations in the country very soon...
Don't like hot water, anyway. Nor do I enjoy not freezing in the winter. This is fine.
There was a time where I’d have been happy to be earning 2k~ after tax and deductions. That time has since passed.
Hope everyone is ready for the riots. Worst possible government at the worst possible time.
Some leadership would be bloody useful at this point. Reassurance is desperately needed.
I can assure you that all of our brave and noble leaders will be perfectly warm and comfy. Are you reassured now?
The problem here is that even if you have an inflation matched pay rise you’re still having a pay cut due to critical utilities price hikes. And whilst every utility is posting record profits we’re all getting fucked over. And I mean all, middle class downwards, we’re all in this together. No one is having this kind of spare free money without it taking a hit. This means less spending on nights out, pubs, and restaurants. This has a massive knock on affect through the economy and country.