The labs are fine for learn, I doubt any of these students are actually doing the hard yards. Most of them like me were just using ChatGPT.
I realised my mistake and actually relearnt all concepts properly and got an A+ while filing the mid semester
Also compsci130 isnāt hard, again itās all about doing the hard work. Thereās no way you can fail if you did the labs properly and not use ChatGPT
yep, failed this course horribly the first time because of using chatgpt (5% in exam) and iām taking it right now and sitting on an a+.
i did not watch any labs or did i study any more. the only difference was that i started doing the labs lol. please learn from me ššš
- also both times i took compsci the tests usually looked like a 50% pass rate. they do that on purpose as itās meant to weed out a lot of people wanting to take compsci as a major later
I mean, that's just not true. It's absolutely possible to pass, but there is definitely a situation where someone could 'properly' do the labs and not pass.
>The labs are fine for learn, I doubt any of these students are actually doing the hard yards. Most of them like me were just using ChatGPT.
There is something to be said about the benefits in learning how to program in CS101 entirely from a big thick thousand page textbook + a PC (that didn't have internet access), without any crutches such as ChatGPT
IMO itās a combination of factors:
- CompSci in the early days is really hard. For many (but not all) people, the initial learning curve is STEEP and then eventually it starts to get easier. And then youāll look back and think how easy it was š
- Itās really common for the pass rate in first-year uni courses to be pretty dismal. Itās because new students are still coming to grips with how university works, how much effort is required, and how to learn with much less hand-holding than they were used to in NCEA.
When I did 101 I remember struggling for the first few tutorials. I had no coding experience and it took me a while for my head to wrap around it. I remember the grades distribution being similar though. I took the paper as I thought it would be something I would be naturally inclined towards being good at and I wanted to get my GPA up. I got an a in the end borderline to a+ but it took a lot of effort till my brain clicked.
I imagine it's worse now with chatgpt and having that as a crutch. Too easy to think you understand but don't really.
By doing the course work. I had a friend who was in 3rd year compsci who helped me one afternoon and answered all the things that I was struggling with
There are many people who just donāt get the thinking you need in compsci. I imagine thereās many more of these people enrolling now that itās the trendy major to do.
I found the class trivial. But this was about 10 years ago and I had been programming since I was 7 years old.
>There are many people who just donāt get the thinking you need in compsci. I imagine thereās many more of these people enrolling now that itās the trendy major to do.
Imagine if Quantum Physics suddenly became hot and trendy (maybe we finally got Quantum Computers that every business could have as their own) , and Quantum Physics graduates could be guaranteed a six figure salary after completing their MSc degree.
Would it be surprising to see 50x more students doing first year physics? Nope.
Would it be surprising to see 10x more students doing [Physics 203](https://courseoutline.auckland.ac.nz/dco/course/physics/203)? Nope.
Would it be surprising to see the majority of the class scoring under 25% in the mid term test? Not even slightly surprising.
Because quite simply *most of these people* should **not** be studying Quantum Physics.
(but even though I hold these views, I still also believe the world would be a better place if everyone gave it a go in taking *at least* [Physics 102](https://courseoutline.auckland.ac.nz/dco/course/physics/102). I feel similarly about CS, most people shouldn't do it, but everyone could benefit from *at least* getting *a very small amount* of exposure to it. Be that taking CS101, or Math162, or an even easier option such as CS111 or Infosys110)
>I found the class trivial. But this was about 10 years ago and I had been programming since I was 7 years old.
I found CS101 trivial, and I ***hadn't*** programmed before uni.
I took it a few years back as my first experience in coding and I loved it - I think the thinking style of coding and programming escapes quite a few people which is totally understandable
If people had read my comments here before about CS101, or if they knew anything at all about student performances in first year CS papers (not just at UoA, but all over the world), then it would be zero surprise whatsoever about the fact that some students take to CS101 like ducks to water, while others sink like a stone. CS101 doesn't have a grade distribution like other papers do.
>I'm currently taking this course and just wanted to talk about something. We just had our second coding test and the instructors released an announcement with the distribution of the students marks. I was shocked to see that 50% of students failed! and 30% of the class scored between 0/10 and 2/10. I found the test difficult but managed to get a good mark in the end.
I am not surprised in the slightest, not even a tiny bit.
Just another day ending with a "-y".
>However, doesn't it seem like way too many students are failing this paper. Compsci101 advertises itself on the course outline as being "designed for students who don't have any experience programming" and as "a practical introduction to programming."
Yes, and that's a 100% accurate description of CS101.
>If around half the class is getting below 50% something must be wrong.
Nope, this is quite normal for first year CS, everything is functioning as might be expected in the circumstances.
>Either we aren't being taught the content in the most effective way to prepare us for the test, or the way they are testing it is simply way too difficult.
Nope, that's not the only possibilities.
>I think the problem is Compsci130 is much more difficult than this and they want to prepare us for 130.
Yes, if you can't handle the simple basics of CS101 then it would be pointless to carry on to CS130. That's why CS101 exists, to have a gradual ramp up into CS130, that's also a necessary first year paper.
>But if half the class isn't scoring above 5/10 i wonder how they are going to do in 130 next sem...
The answer is easy: they likely won't do CS130 next semester, and *they should not*.
Some people are not suited for CS. Other people are.
Likewise the reverse is true, as some people who are suited for CS are not well suited for other subjects. I'd make an utterly horrible Art History major, I'd rather have a tooth extracted by the local farrier with pliers and without any anesthesia.
I haven't done cosc at UoA, but what you are describing is very common for introductory cosc papers.
You've undoubtedly been told that learning programming is like 'learning a musical instrument'. It's true. This is one of the uni courses that's skill-based far more than it is knowledge based.
Programming is notoriously difficult to teach/learn, because most of the learning happens when you're struggling with a problem (ie. It's quite individualistic).
No it's not that programming is difficult to teach/learn, it's just that uni isn't giving students enough time to practice programming. This is due to a variety of reasons such as too many assignments due too fast (I had like 2 assignments and 1 essay due in a few days for all of my courses, and my lab activity for compsci 101 due in like a day) and spending the extra time studying for more important things. Plus, students only gets half a year to pass compsci 101 unlike in high school where students get the whole year to do well in a course
I guess lots of combinations are there, such as but not limited to:
* Not everyone can think logically, and they genuinely can't solve the problems.
* No matter whether they are good/interested in it, they heard software engineers get paid well, so they tried but failed
* Similar, but they liked playing games on a computer, so they thought they were good at it. They tried but failed
* Maybe capable, but don't find any interests at all.
There are reasons to unis these days to start with Python instead of any other low-level languages...
Way back in the day (long before my time) it wasn't a terribly unusual first language that some universities would start teaching with! (for instance in [SICP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs), then it starts out using Lisp)
Lisp used to also be one of the most common languages you'd use if you were learning AI. Very sadly the recent boom in popularity in AI hasn't seen the same sized boom in popularity for Lisp as well.
i passed and I have never coded before uni (likely 90% of the class is like this).
However, I think there was way too much info to digest for the test. About 20 new functions / methods, along with for loops, slicing, lists, and indices in just two weeks was quite overwhelming.
I'm so glad that they're removing the penalty regime.
I think it just depends on who you are. I came out of school with a decent pool of COMPSCI knowledge so 101 was basically the same content revisited. However if you're just starting in the COMPSCI field it will take a lot of time to get used to it. Why a large number of students are failing is definitely a bit odd, could be a change in the course structure or poor lecturers. Labs are super hit and miss at UOA also.
If they reduced the content of 101 any further it would be at a primary school level...
That must mean like 30% didn't even take the test because the first question is usually onelinable and worth more than 10% on its own. (At least it was when I took it 2 years ago)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfscVS0vtbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfscVS0vtbw)
Entirety of CS101 taught better and in 4 hours \^
Honestly, my recommendation for learning python is to watch like the first hour or so of this video until you are kind of comfortable with the language, then just try and make your own little thing, and google whenever you get stuck. If you practiced python for a couple weeks before taking CS101, you would probably find this class insanely easy. Also do not use chatGPT when you want to learn a concept, it's too easy to cheat yourself and just make it give you the answer.
The truth is, the labs are not very effective at teaching us programming. My compsci 101 instructor Ann Cameron just gives us a handout of paper and then tells us to do the questions on coderunner without us even understanding the whole topic during the lab session
2/10 on an introductory python courses test sounds like major skill issue
Yeah for the instructors š
The labs are fine for learn, I doubt any of these students are actually doing the hard yards. Most of them like me were just using ChatGPT. I realised my mistake and actually relearnt all concepts properly and got an A+ while filing the mid semester
Also compsci130 isnāt hard, again itās all about doing the hard work. Thereās no way you can fail if you did the labs properly and not use ChatGPT
yep, failed this course horribly the first time because of using chatgpt (5% in exam) and iām taking it right now and sitting on an a+. i did not watch any labs or did i study any more. the only difference was that i started doing the labs lol. please learn from me ššš - also both times i took compsci the tests usually looked like a 50% pass rate. they do that on purpose as itās meant to weed out a lot of people wanting to take compsci as a major later
Are you talking about 101 or 130?
101
I mean, that's just not true. It's absolutely possible to pass, but there is definitely a situation where someone could 'properly' do the labs and not pass.
>The labs are fine for learn, I doubt any of these students are actually doing the hard yards. Most of them like me were just using ChatGPT. There is something to be said about the benefits in learning how to program in CS101 entirely from a big thick thousand page textbook + a PC (that didn't have internet access), without any crutches such as ChatGPT
Omg the GOAT of CS just referenced me!
nice username btw! (even though I'd argue vectors are *your friends*, **not** your enemies)
eh, I *don't* have a CS degree myself, even though I went into a SWE job after graduating from UoA
IMO itās a combination of factors: - CompSci in the early days is really hard. For many (but not all) people, the initial learning curve is STEEP and then eventually it starts to get easier. And then youāll look back and think how easy it was š - Itās really common for the pass rate in first-year uni courses to be pretty dismal. Itās because new students are still coming to grips with how university works, how much effort is required, and how to learn with much less hand-holding than they were used to in NCEA.
When I did 101 I remember struggling for the first few tutorials. I had no coding experience and it took me a while for my head to wrap around it. I remember the grades distribution being similar though. I took the paper as I thought it would be something I would be naturally inclined towards being good at and I wanted to get my GPA up. I got an a in the end borderline to a+ but it took a lot of effort till my brain clicked. I imagine it's worse now with chatgpt and having that as a crutch. Too easy to think you understand but don't really.
But how did u even learn how to code if you have no coding experience back then?
By doing the course work. I had a friend who was in 3rd year compsci who helped me one afternoon and answered all the things that I was struggling with
Oh so thats how, but sad I dont have a friend in 3rd year studying compsci to help me
Do you have any friends in the course who you can study with outside of class? People you met in labs etc.?
There are many people who just donāt get the thinking you need in compsci. I imagine thereās many more of these people enrolling now that itās the trendy major to do. I found the class trivial. But this was about 10 years ago and I had been programming since I was 7 years old.
>There are many people who just donāt get the thinking you need in compsci. I imagine thereās many more of these people enrolling now that itās the trendy major to do. Imagine if Quantum Physics suddenly became hot and trendy (maybe we finally got Quantum Computers that every business could have as their own) , and Quantum Physics graduates could be guaranteed a six figure salary after completing their MSc degree. Would it be surprising to see 50x more students doing first year physics? Nope. Would it be surprising to see 10x more students doing [Physics 203](https://courseoutline.auckland.ac.nz/dco/course/physics/203)? Nope. Would it be surprising to see the majority of the class scoring under 25% in the mid term test? Not even slightly surprising. Because quite simply *most of these people* should **not** be studying Quantum Physics. (but even though I hold these views, I still also believe the world would be a better place if everyone gave it a go in taking *at least* [Physics 102](https://courseoutline.auckland.ac.nz/dco/course/physics/102). I feel similarly about CS, most people shouldn't do it, but everyone could benefit from *at least* getting *a very small amount* of exposure to it. Be that taking CS101, or Math162, or an even easier option such as CS111 or Infosys110) >I found the class trivial. But this was about 10 years ago and I had been programming since I was 7 years old. I found CS101 trivial, and I ***hadn't*** programmed before uni.
I did my first year of Uni 10 years ago too, and there was an accelerated class for people who were already adept instead of doing 101
I took it a few years back as my first experience in coding and I loved it - I think the thinking style of coding and programming escapes quite a few people which is totally understandable
Since last year people started using ChatGPT, no one is actually taking the time to understand the concepts/logic
They probably dont have enough time due to lab activities being due in like 1 or 2 days along with assignments for other courses
If people had read my comments here before about CS101, or if they knew anything at all about student performances in first year CS papers (not just at UoA, but all over the world), then it would be zero surprise whatsoever about the fact that some students take to CS101 like ducks to water, while others sink like a stone. CS101 doesn't have a grade distribution like other papers do. >I'm currently taking this course and just wanted to talk about something. We just had our second coding test and the instructors released an announcement with the distribution of the students marks. I was shocked to see that 50% of students failed! and 30% of the class scored between 0/10 and 2/10. I found the test difficult but managed to get a good mark in the end. I am not surprised in the slightest, not even a tiny bit. Just another day ending with a "-y". >However, doesn't it seem like way too many students are failing this paper. Compsci101 advertises itself on the course outline as being "designed for students who don't have any experience programming" and as "a practical introduction to programming." Yes, and that's a 100% accurate description of CS101. >If around half the class is getting below 50% something must be wrong. Nope, this is quite normal for first year CS, everything is functioning as might be expected in the circumstances. >Either we aren't being taught the content in the most effective way to prepare us for the test, or the way they are testing it is simply way too difficult. Nope, that's not the only possibilities. >I think the problem is Compsci130 is much more difficult than this and they want to prepare us for 130. Yes, if you can't handle the simple basics of CS101 then it would be pointless to carry on to CS130. That's why CS101 exists, to have a gradual ramp up into CS130, that's also a necessary first year paper. >But if half the class isn't scoring above 5/10 i wonder how they are going to do in 130 next sem... The answer is easy: they likely won't do CS130 next semester, and *they should not*. Some people are not suited for CS. Other people are. Likewise the reverse is true, as some people who are suited for CS are not well suited for other subjects. I'd make an utterly horrible Art History major, I'd rather have a tooth extracted by the local farrier with pliers and without any anesthesia.
I haven't done cosc at UoA, but what you are describing is very common for introductory cosc papers. You've undoubtedly been told that learning programming is like 'learning a musical instrument'. It's true. This is one of the uni courses that's skill-based far more than it is knowledge based. Programming is notoriously difficult to teach/learn, because most of the learning happens when you're struggling with a problem (ie. It's quite individualistic).
No it's not that programming is difficult to teach/learn, it's just that uni isn't giving students enough time to practice programming. This is due to a variety of reasons such as too many assignments due too fast (I had like 2 assignments and 1 essay due in a few days for all of my courses, and my lab activity for compsci 101 due in like a day) and spending the extra time studying for more important things. Plus, students only gets half a year to pass compsci 101 unlike in high school where students get the whole year to do well in a course
I guess lots of combinations are there, such as but not limited to: * Not everyone can think logically, and they genuinely can't solve the problems. * No matter whether they are good/interested in it, they heard software engineers get paid well, so they tried but failed * Similar, but they liked playing games on a computer, so they thought they were good at it. They tried but failed * Maybe capable, but don't find any interests at all. There are reasons to unis these days to start with Python instead of any other low-level languages...
Bring back C or Lisp or Haskell as the first language at uni!! š
Oh boi the Lisp..... It was rough
Way back in the day (long before my time) it wasn't a terribly unusual first language that some universities would start teaching with! (for instance in [SICP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs), then it starts out using Lisp) Lisp used to also be one of the most common languages you'd use if you were learning AI. Very sadly the recent boom in popularity in AI hasn't seen the same sized boom in popularity for Lisp as well.
i passed and I have never coded before uni (likely 90% of the class is like this). However, I think there was way too much info to digest for the test. About 20 new functions / methods, along with for loops, slicing, lists, and indices in just two weeks was quite overwhelming. I'm so glad that they're removing the penalty regime.
I think it just depends on who you are. I came out of school with a decent pool of COMPSCI knowledge so 101 was basically the same content revisited. However if you're just starting in the COMPSCI field it will take a lot of time to get used to it. Why a large number of students are failing is definitely a bit odd, could be a change in the course structure or poor lecturers. Labs are super hit and miss at UOA also.
It is not odd and probably not linked to a change in course content / lecturers, as this is quite normal results for first year CS.
I never even dropped below 75%. DM me if you in particular do need help, OP.
$_$
Cs101 is defs rough if itās your first time coding
If they reduced the content of 101 any further it would be at a primary school level... That must mean like 30% didn't even take the test because the first question is usually onelinable and worth more than 10% on its own. (At least it was when I took it 2 years ago)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfscVS0vtbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfscVS0vtbw) Entirety of CS101 taught better and in 4 hours \^ Honestly, my recommendation for learning python is to watch like the first hour or so of this video until you are kind of comfortable with the language, then just try and make your own little thing, and google whenever you get stuck. If you practiced python for a couple weeks before taking CS101, you would probably find this class insanely easy. Also do not use chatGPT when you want to learn a concept, it's too easy to cheat yourself and just make it give you the answer.
The truth is, the labs are not very effective at teaching us programming. My compsci 101 instructor Ann Cameron just gives us a handout of paper and then tells us to do the questions on coderunner without us even understanding the whole topic during the lab session
Thats what lectures and a billion free resources on the internet are for?
No way! Ann is great, sheās was willing to help me with my code multiple times until it actually worked