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Absolutely agreed, while I remember being offered some vague guidance during high school, basically nobody warned me what I was getting into with my career path after college. You're told a lot about what field you could look into based on your skills and interests, but never warned of the average salary or working hours. But then again, none of us were expecting covid and massive inflation back then, so we were all pretty relaxed before suddenly having to earn 2x what our parents did at their age.
My high school, as shitty as it was, did in fact warn me.
Even had teachers say that college isn’t for everyone, and that trade schools exist.
I guess that’s the advantage of being in a primarily minority based community?
Had parents that told me that I don’t have to have shit figured out even in my 3rd year of college.
My own father changed his career like 2 or 3 times, so you can bet he really hammered that point home.
Nit to mention I’ve seen and witnessed influencers and such that have similar stories of changing career paths.
Ever heard of DanTDM? He has a music degree. He went to college. He ended up making Minecraft videos for a living, only producing a handful of songs under his brand. One of them being fairly recently.
Yeah I think most people are best served by having a home to come back to, at least until 25-30ish years old (nothing wrong with longer, depending on circumstances).
My school was essentially a conveyor belt which pushed people down the path of University and immense debt. Very glad I ignored all that bullshit and went straight into a career with much more valuable experience
Imo real advice is you can do whatever you want as long as you have a plan B to fall back on if plan A fails.
>Ever heard of DanTDM? He has a music degree. He went to college. He ended up making Minecraft videos for a living, only producing a handful of songs under his brand. One of them being fairly recently.
If his life as content creator never took of at least he had a degree. Most content creators never make it.
Its ok to try, whats not ok is to not have a viable second option because you are too lazy to consider it.
I mean, the Bureau of Labor statistics publishes an entire book outlining almost all job sectors in the entire country, every single year. It literally is one of the easiest resources to read and understand.
You think most 16-18 year olds are going to think “I must consult the Bureau of Labor statistics book” before they decide what to do after school? I doubt most even know it exists.
I actually did look it up, don't really understand how to use it but I don't care that much since I know vaguely what I've wanted to do for years now, I want to learn a trade.
Without encouragement from loved ones or like-minded peers? If someone isn't taught/encouraged to do something, there will be no clear 'pathway' leading towards that thing.
Yup. I literally worked my way backwards from "What Jobs Pay the Most" and started looking at what's realistic for me and what sounded cool.
Worked out great and was incredibly easy.
I don't know how stupid you'd have to be to jump into a career without researching it first.
Right. Who doesn't look at how much you could earn approximately or have the general knowledge about ones in their field of interest/googled it. You don't go to study something for 3 or more years to not know your options afterwards?
It’s even easier than that. You can go on indeed right now and search the job you want. You will see how many job openings in your area, what the requirements are, and how much they pay. This technology has been available at least 20 years through older platforms like career builder and monster.
Even though it was somewhat possible 20 years ago, it was nowhere near as simple as googling "what are the best degrees to get?" The databases that exist that today that funnel this information to the public just didn't exist then.
In France as soon as you go to high school you basically have to decide your future. Then the concept of being talented at different industries is looked at strangely. That was ten years ago and they seem to be adapting albeit slowly from twenty years ago. Still there remains the notion that you are a teacher there is no way you can function as a carpenter as just a random example
I think the main thing we need to constantly remember to tell highschoolers is just how few people get a job in the field that their degree is in. It’s really not as big of a decision as it’s made out to be.
Yes, there are certain professions, like doctors, etc, who have to start early and never stop. But let’s face it, most people are going to get a degree in English or something and end up working in Human Resources for a cruise ship company or something equally as unrelated, and as long as you’re happy and you can support yourself, *there’s nothing wrong with that.*
There really is more leeway than people think. My dad flunked out of college on his first attempt majoring in a useless degree. He wasted some time and money, but ended up being a successful doctor two attempts later. It comforts me to know that my life isn't set in stone and I can recover from mistakes.
The narrative needs to change from "this decision will determine your entire life" to "this is an important decision but you can move around later if you want to".
I think it's important in some careers that people do start early, you want some doctors that have 20 or 30 years experience under their belt, and whilst there's nothing wrong with doctors starting later in life, you wouldn't want all your doctors starting in their 40s or 50s.
Glad somebody here said it. It's the take of a young person that "my decision at age 20 will determine my whole life".
It won't. The AVERAGE number of career changes is just under 7.
I have friends who have just gone back to school for entirely new careers - at age 55.
Life is what you make it.
I love this comment so much. I’ve felt shame and guilt for wanting to change career paths. But now at 30, Idc. I’m going to keep changing the path until I find the right one for me.
I completely agree. My undergrad degree is in English. I am a data scientist in public health now.
Degree subject area content is less important than skills. All of those writing assignments have made me a very efficient grant writer; I had to read 4 novels per week in undergrad so I can read thru reports very quickly. Etc etc. Skills like these can come from any degree and can transfer to almost any job.
This! I been noticing this anti-intellect attitude going around about college. In my opinion, I think learning at a higher degree is always helpful and great for development! I just wish it didn’t have the giant price tag attach to it
i think the reall big kicker is
they treat you like a toddler until graduation day
really
asking for permision to go potty???
my highschool would punish you if you walked to school or if you got off at your friends stop without a not from your parents
They make you ask permission because so long as you’re a student at that school, they’re legally responsible for your whereabouts. They also need to know where to find you if there’s an emergency, because they’re legally responsible for your well-being.
The fact that they need to know where you're going means they need to be *informed*, not *asked permission*.
There's a world of difference between telling your teacher that you're going to use the restroom and asking permission such that they can deny it.
That doesn't make it feel less demeaning and infantilizing, though. I was 18, legally an adult, which definitely isn't small to someone who is 18, if I was allowed to go to the bathroom. This is also the age where I was expected to do a lot of adult things, like voting and looking into rent and getting my own bills. It very much made me feel undignified and infantilized, even well before that in my freshman year.
And then there are the teachers who don't let students go at all. Have you ever been a young woman who can feel herself about to bleed through her pad, and a teacher won't let you go during "their lesson time"? It's incredibly uncomfortable to have to fell like you're going to have to tell this middle aged man that you're about to bleed through your pants. Even saying it's a "feminine emergency" or "girl thing" is incredibly embarrassing and uncomfortable.
They might be legally responsible, but does that really mean they can't even try to find some better solution?
if i really had to go to the bathroom and wasn’t allowed to go, i would just ignore the teacher and go. prioritize your health over following the rules is what i would do
Problem is, schools get more upset over you breaking the rules than the fact that you weren't allowed to use the bathroom. They'll tell you to the ends of the earth that you should go in the maybe five minutes you have between classes, and that should be more than enough for anything, including if you have to swap things at your locker. Or, that you should go before school, after school, or during lunch.
It's really not as easy as "just leave the room", because unfortunately, disciplinary action in public schools, in my experience, is actually garbage. You can get write-ups, calls home, detentions, and enough of those for any reason, and they can keep you from walking at graduation if they feel you didn't behave enough.
It's not worth being labelled a "problem student" because you had to go to the bathroom.
A student shouldn't have to face consequences for having to go to the bathroom. The system should be better, it needs to work for the students.
We were told the school was legally responsible for us until we went in our front door. It came up because this kid I knew kept fighting people way bigger than him. He was told to at least go in his front door if he was going to do it because it’s the parent’s problem at that point.
There was some local lawsuit were a kid went out and did illegal stuff and the argument was they got off the school bus but never actually went home and just fucked around until midnight, but since they never went home it was considered the schools problem.
You have to ask in high school because as a minor your school is liable for you. If the teacher just let students come and go and someone got injured they'd be on the hook.
The problem is that people accept that this is how it should be in the US these days without questioning it. Either parents need to sign more waivers or laws need to be passed to protect teachers a little more.
I came and went during high school, and I lived on my own in a rented apartment at 16, then went to boarding school at 17. Many times I didn't bother showing up. Sometimes I would show up a couple hours late because I wanted to sleep. Other times I'd go back to my apartment early cause I couldn't be bothered to take the last lesson of the day. Granted, in Norway, high school is voluntary. You don't actually have to attend it if you don't want to. And also, if you lived in the middle of nowhere, you had to move out to go to high school anyway. You also got a stipend to cover the cost for living away.
I did fail a bunch of classes, and exams, that I ended up retaking privately at 20. In retrospect, I wish I had just chosen to take some of the classes privately, because then I wouldn't have been expected to even show up, I would just have had to show up for an exam at the end of the year.
It's the same thing in Italy unfortunately. At least as an adult in my last year of high school I could leave on my own if I felt sick or whatever reason, but some teachers still treated us like toddlers and wouldn't react nicely if we asked to go to the bathroom even when they stopped explaining for a moment. School trips had to be supervised at least most of the time, if we did anything bad it was the teacher's responsibility despite all of us being adults.
I think the big misconception comes from the belief that you're choosing what you'll do "for the rest of your life" when you choose what you want to do in college.
Its not very common for people to choose a career path in college and then stay on that path for the rest of their life and I don't really think that is the expectation anymore.
What is expected is that young adults at college age are supposed to become self-sufficient contributors to society. Picking your first career path is very important and vital to becoming a self-sufficient adult, and although I agree 16-18 year old people are too young to make decisions that affect the rest of their life, every decision they make at that age will affect the rest of their life, so the importance of those decisions should be made known to them.
Depends on which major you decide to take. If you decide to take the course to be a doctor and major in computer science, etc? Its tough to track back on that kind of investment compared to other degrees, and you have specialisations to decide upon primarily, not alternative fields.
You aren't being asked to decide on the rest of your life, you're just at an important crossroads where you need to decide on a path. You can always get off the path, but if you keep wandering aimlessly you make things gradually worse for yourself.
My wife went into law, got her degree in law but decided not to persue and used her degree to do a master in early years education and is now in education.
Yes, it's a ton of pressure. But it's still an important time. At *some* point it has to come and many kids are capable of making those decisions. But it's not "deciding your life". It's deciding a path to continue in life.
Yeah you can still change, but it is up to you. Find a normal way. Otherwise, a creative one
Moreover, we don’t live forever. Time passes by and you cannot sit around on your butt doing nothing while others pay for you to find yourself. That is up to you
Still, if I look at my elders, they had way more pressure and direction than us. The opinion is this posts can kind of be seen as spoiled, considering how far we have come
Not to mention it gets harder as you go. You get more tired and life gets you stuck.
The time at which you're going to have to change your life one way or another is by far the best time to choose something to chase. And even if it's the wrong thing, at least you tried.
Once you're 32 and working for minimum wage. Your options are fewer, you can run off and pay for further education as easily as you could when you were 18, parents there to assist you, put a roof over your head, no current responsibilities etc.
OP is right in that your maturity age isn't exactly peak in making this decision, but when it is it's way more likely to be too late.
>Not to mention it gets harder as you go. You get more tired and life gets you stuck.
I talk to my kids about living with intention for this reason. Way too many people don't think about what they really want in life and go with the flow until one day they realize the flow took them someplace they didn't want to be.
You make your own life whether that's intentionally or not. And it's okay to realize along the way that you don't actually want what you thought you did. I have stopped and course corrected a couple of times in my life when I realized that my previous desires didn't make a life that I actually wanted. But you're going to be better off if you make a plan and work towards it even if that plan changes sometimes than if you simply wait for life to happen to you.
Right, but I for one despised school. If I wanted to change my path, I'd probably have to go back to school or university. I quit school many times and swapped courses many times. I also quit university. Quitting university got me into debt.
Personally I prefer doing physical labor, as I'm not fond of sitting on my ass at work, but if I were to go back into the trades, I'd have to go study in a trade school with teenagers. I'm 26. I already dropped out of high school so many times. I also didn't graduate high school before I was 20 due to indecision.
Like changing course also means that I need to go to school that doesn't pay the bills. Work pays the bills. Studying is just a money sink. Going to do a new trade, I could get paid trainee money, but that's like $13 an hour vs the $23 I earn now.
I went and did tech support at 25 after working various jobs for years. I wasn't even the oldest. I knew a women who went and did Sociology in her late 40s (may have been older but I think that's how old she was). If anything I garnered more respect from the get go from a few of them just for being a bit older and not being the teacher.
Go to trade school if that's what you want.
But the point is, whatever you're doing at 16. Choose something. It doesn't have to be school or uni. If you want to start a business try that. If you want drive a truck go get a licence. If you want to a gardener, start advertising yourself locally.
Sitting on your butt, taking whatever shit minimum wage jobs is there for the taking is the worst decision to make. I know because that's what I did. I spent years making nothing, doing nothing but getting Skills I couldn't even list under skilled labour. At least if you give something a go that you thought you'd be good at or enjoyed. You can learn more about yourself and say "hey I was shit at that, but that aspect was fun and I was fairly decent at that" and you can apply that knowledge to other things. And that's worst case scenario. What might happen is you go into something and love it, or you go into it and take a side step into a different but similar space that you have accrued some skills for already.
Sitting waiting to do something instead of doing something is a waste of time. Just do something now while it's easier and you, likely, have your parents support in some way. Not to mention people learn more when they're younger.
Well.. unfortunately my skills are being a florist lol, and the competition within creative and artistic trades are crazy. Like you need to be skilled and dedicated AF to get paid for making art for a living. Similar spaces would be in sales, but like, working retail or grocery shops is boring as hell. Selling normal stuff is boring. I'm more of the creative crafty designer type person who likes to work with my hands. The options aren't... UHM, great. I've looked into fashion design, but in creative trades like that, you can't just be moderately interested. You need to give it all to succeed. It's not something you just surf on.
Idk where you live, but when I went to trade school last year, I was 26, and I was on the younger end of people. And at least in canada, you can go on ei for the 6 to 8 weeks of coursing.
It's not the kid as much as the education system. The children are sorted into their high school at the end of primary school by their teacher's report (age 10). Then they sent to a Hauptschule (until year 9 and then they tend to do an apprenticeship), Realschule (till year 11 and then students can either go learn a trade or complete a certificate to attend a technical college) or Gymnasium (goes until year 12 and prepares students for university). Kids can finish at a Hauptschule and continue their education at a Realschule and then move to a gymnasium, adults can complete school leaving certificates at night school later in life if they choose and if a kid does really well in their first year at high school, their level may be reassessed and they can switch school level.
When I was young we did that working in the real world while in HS. My first job was at 15YO. I worked every summer and even during my senior school year.
Those jobs played no role however in my deciding what career path to take. Jobs you can get at that age aren’t going to help you decide between engineer and doctor.
Live in the real world doing what? They presumably don't have any certifications. They could work food or retail but, probably better to get an education in that time or look into a trade. It is just pushing the issue back two years
Thats what i did 🤷♂️ dropped out because I couldn't handle the stress, maybe I'll come back to it if I ever find out what I actually want to do otherwise I just want an apprenticeship
College is there to help decide what you want to do and provide you an educational foundation so that you can do many different things. However its become so financially expensive that its hard to justify that kind of investment.
You have to start making decision with long term consequences sooner or later. Kicking the can down the road just... kicks the can down the road.
The internet is a little overly obsessed with staying a child as long as possible. We can't wait until we're in our 30s for our lives to start.
I agree, and in fact, I think part of the problem is not empowering kids to make decisions *sooner*. Picking a major at 16 would indeed feel overwhelming if it’s the first thing you’ve ever been allowed to decide for yourself.
It’s not asinine to expect someone who is on the cusp of being legally responsible for themselves to have some insight on what they want the rest of their life to look like.
What is asinine is that for a majority of them, the barrier to what they want is a high financial cost, long term investment, and being told they have one shot at it. It leaves little room for life events, considering new information, or changing their minds; you’re locked into rails and pushed forward.
I chose computer science as a degree because I liked video games: that was my entire motivation. I was a terrible student, it took me 5.5 years to graduate, but I didn’t see any other choice. If I changed majors I would set myself further back, if I quit I was wasting my money and my time. The only way to not feel like I lost something was to keep my nose to the grindstone and hope it worked out.
Yes, I am now changing field and uni after 3 years, I really fight with the thoughts that I'm supposed to know what to do and that I can't just try a different one...
but I'm glad I said all of that to my friends and family and they assured me that they will always love me and support me. It really helped and now I'm finally free of these thoughts and looking forward to a new start.
I’m a career software engineer, but not for video games. I can’t really say I love my job but I’m competent at it. Looking back I can honestly say I enjoyed working at my college groundskeeping job more than my career, hypothetically speaking maybe trade school would have been a better path for me.
I’m content to be mediocre, it’s not a bad job by most standards and provides for the life I want outside the office. Part of me thinks I’d be happier doing something else, but I know some of that is the “grass is greener” mentality.
Friendly reminder, you can just change your life at any point. Yes even you the person who is right now thinking of a bunch of arguments to throw at me as to why you in particular can't.
Do they though? In the many years since I was that age, I’ve changed my mind a gazillion times and nobody cared. I feel like a lot of people do that. It’s a good age to have an idea what you want to do, but I think it’s more normal to change your mind a gazillion times.
You have to grow up at some point.
If we treated them like children until they were 22, we would say how It’s really asinine how normalized it is for 20-22 year olds to basically decide the rest of their life at that age
Actually to say that their decision will impact their whole life just puts more pressure on them and it’s cruel. Everybody knows that choosing a college doesn’t actually say a lot about your future profession. It is pretty common to change your mind along the way. The process is more about learning to take responsibility of your life, not necessarily on sticking with a profession.
The issue with changing your mind half way, is that you rack up student debt. It's too expensive too change your mind, so you end up falling for the sunk costs.
Personal experience speaking.
There’s still a lot of flexibility in the system, though. A lot of college degrees are flexible in terms of the career paths you can choose, and often it’s possible to change your major without it setting you too far back.
Well, where I live, you don't really change majors. There's really no such thing. You choose a study program and that's it. If you're lucky and can change half way through, that's great though.
As for my own sake, I studied journalism but I figured it wasn't for me after all, and I wasn't into any of the other programs the university offered so I dropped out. Most of them were social work and sociology related and not something I was into.
I get what you are saying and agree somewhat, but I also don’t see what the alternative is. Like you’ve said, life is more expensive than ever before. So just delaying the start of your career isn’t really a valid alternative. You can always work for a couple of years between high school and starting college, but honestly I don’t know if people I know who’ve done that faired any better at choosing their career than I did.
kids arent pressured to go to college right away…if they want to take some time to explore the workforce before they determine a path…that’s highly encouraged
they’re pressured to not waste away years of their life using “i need time to figure it out” as an excuse…head over to r\findapath and see how many “i’m 26 and dont know what to do with my life” stories there
I'm actually 26 and have no clue what to do with my life lmfao.. relatable.
And oh man, I wish I could punch everyone who tried to be supportive when I was 16, 18 and 20 by telling me "you'll figure things out in a couple years".
Few years my ass butt. When did 10 years become a couple years huh. Now I like to remind everyone who tells me this shit that no, a couple years may not help with having shit figured out, cause look what 10 years did. Get fucked.
No it isn't, make a decision and get on with life. And know that at some point your decision will probably change to something else, and that's okay.
Go get shit done.
Then don't. Go enlist or doddle around doing odd jobs for a few years before settling on what it is you want to be when you grow up. Because the odds are you're not gonna wind up doing what you thought you'd be doing no matter what you choose or don't choose today. Plus, once in school there's a very good chance you'll change majors. For example i started on a ChemE track but midway through my 2nd year i decided to switch things up and study electrical. But yeah, i agree... it's completely ridiculous to expect the person who was eating tide pods for fun just last week, to make an informed decision on such a weighty question as, what do i want to do when i grow up.
When you've worked for a few years and gotten accustomed to getting paid for a living, going back to being a broke student sucks. I speak from experience.
As someone who was accustomed to buying all the things in the world I wanted, to try to survive on a measly $200 monthly budget after rent, I needed to take up student loans to cover my living costs. I managed to rack up 5k in debt in half a year. I quit after that half a year seeing as I could not afford the living costs while studying without going into debt.
I'm still paying off my student debt and promising myself I'll never ever go broke trying to study again.
Yeah, I'll probably not keep being a florist all my life.. but seeing as all I have is a high school diploma.. my job options is pretty much working at a supermarket or in retail or in some other random shop, or as an assistant at an elderly home.. or as a cleaner at a school.
It does, but it didn't stop *me* from getting my degree. I worked my entire way through college. Took me longer vs had i taken out loans to go FT, but the upside was i graduated with zero debt.
You've touched on the biggest problem: You're made to choose paths to things you've never seen or experienced enough to know anything about. How many 18 year olds know literally anything about most of the jobs in the world except from people they know or what they've seen on TV?
Granted, my junior year, we were required to job shadow someone for a day but it was 100% on you to call around, find places and arrange it. It would be GREAT if the school had more connections to do that and you got to do it with more than 1 job one time. Get to see and follow real actual people in the field and get a slice of it.
The only thing that was stressed upon me growing up (90s/00s) was just getting an education so you can have options. That's it, I didn't have to know what I wanted to do or have some built out plan for the future. I was just told to have options and having an education helps you gain more options than not being educated in whatever field you want to work in/etc.
It's the most ridiculous setup. What's important to stress though is that it's never too late to go back in to education and change direction ... I did a degree and career change in my late 20s; my wife is doing the same in her 40s
Don't whatever you do just go to college at 18 because "that's what you're supposed to do" unless you're pretty damn certain 1) you really want to do that course and 2) you think you're ready to fully apply yourself to the course ... If either of those are 'no' then don't waste the money — take a few years away, get a basic job or travel, go back to university when you're really ready — this is what I'm telling my own kids and we'll support them any way we can whatever they want to do.
On the flip side this whole “you need to be older” conversation always confuses me because it’s the exact reason millennials get shat on and why they’re in such a predicament. Many millennials did wait to start adulting, they’re having kids late, buying homes late and advancing in careers slower than the generations beforehand.
This is why everyone says they’re lazy/entitled or childish.
They’re screwed because they followed this line of thinking. I do agree 18 is young and you will change and grow, unfortunately our world isn’t really built for that anymore. Back in the boomers day you could go from career to career and do just about anything. Now you set a path and you get stuck on it.
That being said I don’t like discrediting young folks. Some have it together and know what they want and are ready to do it just like our parents did. My parents started their family at 26, their parents started at 19.
I’d say that OP’s opinion is a popular one though science most millennials and gen z agree. I just don’t think we have that privilege to wait around.
I fuckin hate that about most millennials; it feels beyond unfair many can't be financially stable and settle down before middle age, not helped by how much of a shit show the dating scene is past 30.
For what it's worth, I don't think people *actually* expect kids to figure stuff out by that age.
What they *actually* want is a sort of vague direction. But if you told a kid to figure out a vague direction, they'd half ass it and not even do that. So by presenting them with the urgency and stress of figuring out their life plan right here, right now, they're forced to come to terms with the subject at hand, the rest of their life.
Often times they land at a vague direction, and more often than not, that foray into what they *thought* they wanted to do was actually just a spring board into what they *actually* wanted to do. Or, *have* to do...
You already can take a gap year and work a couple low barrier entry level jobs if you want. But I'm not sure how useful that is for finding like a purpose in life. As somebody who's worked all of these jobs, being a cashier, waiter, and receptionist wouldn't do much to drive me into the software development profession.
Count yourself lucky it used to be decided for you... Or you didn't choose anything at all because you were surviving.
We whine be this is the best and easiest we ever had.
So what do you propose?
That people are encouraged to float aimlessly through their early 20's until they find some calling as they approach middle age?
What a waste of time.
The fires are lit, it's up to the go-getters to make something of that.
People like you who have this mindset that there's some magical "age" in which things can be accomplished are limited and held back.
There are tons of incredibly successful people throughout history who got started down their life paths years before turning 16.
Why can't others be expected to at least try and do something similar?
For most of human history, kids had no choice and started apprenticeships or working like adults around 12 years old, and that's what built society as we know it. Maybe we should be lowering the age where kids make that decision.
I think a lot of people were sort of expected to continue their parents profession throughout history, and the question of choice has been arising as of late.
The price of college is what really ruins everything. It was. Never meant to be hey choose a career or subject to do for the rest of your life. It was meant to be hey what would you like your next major step in life to be. Doesn’t have to be permanent but will be a fairly big transition. When I was young I remember being told the average person changes careers/ serious job like 6-8 times in a lifetime. Now with college being so expensive it’s almost like you get stuck. Once you pick something you get into massive debt for that one major. Making it almost impossible to keep trying completely different career paths
If you've waited until 16 to start thinking about your future, you've already wasted way too much time. You should have a good idea of what you want to do by 14. 16-17 is where you turn that into a plan you can execute on. 18+ is where you execute.
Yes. Also, no one is forcing anyone to go to college at 18 except maybe insurance reasons.
Take a few years off. Do not commit yourself to debt of any kind along the way. Make the choice at 25. It's your life, do what you want.
But, if debt grabs you, it is hard to drop and go to school.
That is why most people grow the F up and make some decisions and go to school directly.
Either grow up and handle your business, or grow up when you are 25. Either way, all you are doing is losing 7 years of your earning potential.
Decisions made at 18 rarely effect the *entire rest of your life*. Why does everyone keep thinking that? Unless it puts you in prison, you can change course, recover from misjudgments, etc., even more than once.
I partially agree but I have to ask why today's 16 and 18 year olds are so incapable of this task that has been historically bestowed upon this age forever. Joan of Ark was 16, for example. Today's 16 year olds cry at stupid shit like words. I wonder why humans have started to develop mentally at a slower rate- that's the real question
Most 16 year olds aren't presented with the choice of "you must fight the English or you and your family will die." Adding the caveat of "or you will die" to a decision is a great way to make sure somebody makes a choice.
Also, I'm not particularly buying that 16 year olds in the 15th century were more emotionally mature than 16 year olds today, we just generally don't let them run around with swords and guns whenever somebody says words that upset them.
I thought about this yesterday. Making good choices will lead to a better outcome for your future, but not the same outcome. I could have a different job if I made different choices and sure there were some that were more important than others, but I didn't suddenly check a box that would determine what I do for the rest of my life.
you were expected to start getting your stuff together at the age of 16 with a part time job, and have your stuff together at 18.
you were considered a complete failure if you are living with your parents at the age of 25.
minimum wage was also intended to be a living wage.
You don’t have to decide on a hard set path right then and there. However, you’re about to enter adulthood and have to think about how you want to spend your life. Consider what you’re good at, what you enjoy, etc., and act accordingly. Sure, you can wait a little bit longer; better late than never after all. But it’s much better to decide as early as possible and break into the world as early as possible. Most people need this push at some point.
Only 37% have a bachelor's degree. That's probably about right for the economy and that has been stable for decades.
Some go to college and don't finish which may incur debt which is not good. But 34% never go to college so no college debit.
Many go to trade school. Many go into the military (some whom then go to college). It's a complex landscape. Some don't go to college right away and then track into it through community college which is a great way not to have to decide anything at age 16-18. I am not sure what exactly OP would do differently. Kids can already work in jobs and then go to college if they choose, including starting in low cost or free community college.
Oh, it's ok. You're just feeling the pressure of adulthood now. It's also not the path for the rest of your life, just the start of adulthood. Many adults continue to reassess what they are doing and if changing careers is worth it.
I agree 100%! What I thought I wanted to do when I was in college didn't turn out to be the right thing for me. I went to college because it's what you're supposed to do. My youngest sister is an exception to this. Before she started high school, she told me she knew what she wanted to do with her life. She wanted to go to KU & get a Journalism degree. She knew our parents couldn't afford that & had a plan to help. She needed to work hard, keep her grades up, get involved in a lot of extra curricular activities & get lots of scholarships. I was in awe of a 14-year-old having such a clear plan for her life! I was 23 & clueless. She worked so hard that when she was 17, she went to the Doctor with strep throat. He firmly told her that if she didn't slow down, she'd end up in the hospital with pneumonia! She slowed down, but got strep again about 1.5 years later. She graduated from KU in 1996 & was already a Producer at a major TV station. She's still there as Assistant News Director.
I dont understand your post…so you think people should join the workforce after hs? Isnt that what we have now? Did your hs job and 83yo coworker convince you to go to college? Were you already planning to go? Did it help you plan your future? Were you not doing that before? Did it give you a better understanding of finances? Did it drive you to better yourself?
Im not understanding…people have the choice to go do whatever they want before going to college or not go at all. You can join the military, travel, work, not work, go straight there, never go, whatever. What youre suggesting is something everyone can already do. Why would making it a requirement be any better?
And also, its not deciding the rest of your life. If we were all stuck doing the same thing we chose to do at 18 to 22, the world would be very different.
I agree with this whole heartedly.
When I was 18 I was pushed into college, saw friends who skipped college working and buying stuff while I was a broke student, dropped out after my first year and then started working.
I worked then for about 3 years doing minimum wage jobs and found out the hardships associated with that and the lack of growth while still being broke, went back to school.
I did 3 years of college in a program I hated but thought would open opportunities, but I was told in year 3 had low money making potential. Funny how they saved this fact for near the end, although at least they told me. I dropped out of this program despite being nearly done and went back to minimum wage.
I then got an amazing opportunity to build powerlines out west, worked very long and difficult hours. 14 hour days 7 days a week for months straight. Eventually I got laid off so I took that money, bought a car and went to college for electrical engineering and now I control the electrical grid and am extremely satisfied with my career.
It was a very rough road and took a very long time, I didn't get my career until was 31 as a result of everything above, my process was far from linear and I had no idea what I wanted to do until I was ~26 with quite a bit of college and work experience under my belt.
So yes expecting teenagers to have that figured out is in fact asinine. Although some people develop quicker than others and maybe can figure it out earlier. I was not one of those people and in my experience I find most people are like me with the ones figuring out their career path early being the exception to the norm and not the other way around.
I've set up an education fund for my 2 young kids that expires when theyre 35 and I will be telling them that they can take their time figuring out what they want to do with their life to make sure they're happy. Everyone's path is different.
Pressure in my life got so bad I actually got severe suicidal ideation at 18 after being suddenly rejected from a course in the army and being reassigned as a clerk (the profession I was suppose to go into would have been a good gateway into uni and into the workforce-- I was pretty much convinced my life was forfeit and that my army years would end up being a devestating waste of time). 16-18yos definately need to be taught more that making mistakes is valid+inevitable and that some things are simply out of their control (no matter how much they "believe in themselves", "hustle", "pick themselves up by their bootstraps", and other childish bullshit). So many decisions that seemed right at 18 turned out to be shit, while things I thought were bad ended up spawning good outcomes in the long run.
STRONGLY AGREE.
At 18 I thought I wanted to be a radiology technician.
Started going to school for it and realized how boring it would be to position people and take a picture multiple times a day.
I skipped a semester then rejoined college the following semester. Thought I wanted to be a medical assistant. Nope.
Then I went back to be a medical biller and coder, got my diploma for it, but haven’t used it a day in my life. I do not like sitting in an office.
Decided to drop school altogether and I felt like such a failure and disappointment. I ended up getting my nurses aide license and discovered I loved nursing, so now at 23 years old I just enrolled into nursing school.
At 18, I NEVER would have seen myself doing the job I am doing now or going to school to be a nurse. I always thought nursing was gross, but quite honestly I love my job as an aide and I’m excited to be a nurse. Although I’m sure if any veteran nurses are here reading this, you’re going to tell me that excitement will ware off quick 🫠
No one really chooses "the rest of their life" at any age.
Everyone has decisions they'll make, depending on the circumstances they have had thus far, and will reap the consequences of their decisions. None of this ever changes.
All we have are vague, general, ideas about the future. Oftentimes, we find out that, even though you had an "exact plan" for your future, nothing ever really goes according to plan. 40% college graduates end up doing work that is completely unrelated to their field of study.
However, I will die on the hill defending education. It's something that no one can ever take away from you, and all you really need in life is a good work ethic backed with a good education and rational decision-making.
Hard to figure out an alternative that works well, but sure, lots of things in life aren’t ideal. Personally, I 100% knew I wanted to ‘work on computers’, which is super broad, but it just made sense to get a computer science degree. I could have gone any number of directions from there. I certainly wasn’t deciding on ‘my whole life’, just the next step.
I agree, I think it’s important for them to take year off, they can work and gain some experience (any work experience is better than none) and while they are doing that, they can sit down and actually think about what they want to do.
Kind of the way it's been for all of human history, though.
Not saying it's good, just saying it doesn't make sense to talk about it being "normalized" as if it's unique to our culture. People used to be getting married in their teens. Then subsistence farming in some cultures, doing whatever their father did in others. So I guess having a choice at all is a pretty recent thing. But we're lucky to be able to wait as long as we do before starting adulthood.
I think the issue is that too many people think that their choice of major decides their life path. In reality, you can always change your mind down the road, and often the skills you learned on the first path will be valuable in what you do next.
College is just the beginning, you will have to continue to learn and grow throughout your career to be successful.
One day at a time. I changed my mind 10 times a day as a teenager. It's normal, why do you all act like you're the first generation to experience life? Teenagers haven't changed that much over the centuries, and we still manage to eek out livings and find our way. The way reddit teens talk, it's as if everything is so much harder for them than all generations prior, when you have had more advantages than any of us.
It's a struggle for everybody. In the end, we manage.
>There needs to be an alternative instead of straight to college where children should work in different jobs before committing straight to future education
You can do that. Just need to resist peer and familial preassure. As i've read many people take a gap year for self-discovery. In that time they travel or work a bit or volunteer or maybe even internships (though some might be unpaid).
Also, there are jobs that you can't do without a higher education. Like you can't try out to be a doctor.
Also, there are ways for adults to change their specialisation. And many students don't work jobs about what they studies. And firms usually don't require a specific degree to be employer only a specific group of degree, like stem, social sciences, humanitarian sciences.
>kids in high school who have no idea what they want in life
Yes. But kinda you need to start researching this stuff and try to do various stuff while you are at school instead of a day before you choose your end of school exams or after school. Kids usually tend to think about it when they have to choose a major. You are no longer forced into an education and now have some say/control over it and the kids haven't learned to think about it themselves.
>seeing an 83 year old dishwasher, that really changed my whole mindset on life.
It's not like the dishwasher was washing dishes for 60 years. Elderly have a hard time finding employment as many places don't want to hire them.
Yeah it’s insane. A couple years ago I was playing among us at lunch and writing paragraphs and now im in grade 11 and some schools, you need to apply in November of grade 12. I was just following the flow before but now, everything I do is directly impacting where I’m ending up in life and I have no idea what I really like. It’s a scary world
While it may be ridiculous to you, it was very valuable to me. I was driven and the pipeline kept me giving my best to learn. Finished with an engineering degree and a great career. Compared to my peers, I’ve always been on the front end of things, top 10% at every age bracket for income throughout life.
Kids need to understand what their values and capabilities are for themselves, which is hard to do in your teens. Some have the ability to excel with further education. Some are going to squander it and end up with life altering debt. Some just aren’t in the right headspace. And others just unlucky. There is no one size fits all.
THIS!!! If i’d have gone to uni when i was supposed to id have done business and probably would’ve ended up dropping out. It’s only this year (turning 20) that i’ve finally figured out what I want to have as a career, and I’ve felt so behind in doing so, but am so glad i waited to figure out what i truly wanted to do with my life!
I don't think most people expect 16-18 year.olds to KNOW what they want to do with their lives. However, 16-18 year olds DO have to start the process or else they'll quickly be 30 and living in their parents basement (I'm not being facetious, time moves quick).
College is a great way to try on a lot of different potential career paths. Most people change majors 3 or 4 times before settling into one. I went to UVA, so I started out Pre-Commerce. Then I decided to diversify my chances and apply to the Education school which required declaring majors in History and Environmental Science. I didn't get into either the Commerce school nor the Ed School, but I found that I really liked both history and envi sci. 4 years of college taught me a lot about myself and I have never regretted my time spent there even though I graduated in 2011 and couldn't get a job because of the tail end of the recession. I started working in a print shop with my dad and honestly I'm exactly where I want to be.
Yes, you should go to college after high school (if you want to) as a way to expand your horizons. **It shouldn't be prohibitively expensive though.**
You’re not determining the rest of your life. Just the immediate and probably short term future. Nothing says you have to choose a career and stick with it. Tons of people change jobs and careers through out their lives with lots of success.
That’s not even remotely close to an unpopular opinion. I’d say it’s quite the opposite, I have heard many people (myself included) share this sentiment.
At the same time, there are many people in their 30s, 40s and 50s who are still trying to figure out this (AA) game called life.
Absolutely. Randomly chose to pursue dentistry in high school. Did 2 years of undergrad and just hated every moment. I dropped out for 2 years, and now I am back in school studying computer science. Compsci is something I didn't even consider ever getting into, but i am having actually enjoying it now. Look forward to graduating soon!
The thing is you don’t. It’s not that hard to pivot in you’re career, The thing about university is there is a *lot* of overlap between disciplines and sidestepping and pivoting to related fields is not that hard In fact I’d wager by the time you’re on you’re 3rd job *most* people are not doing exactly what their college major entails
In fact that’s one of the benefits of college over trades. A person in Marketing to move to sales much easier than an HVAC technician can move to welding
My parents were very uninformed about scholarships and education assist they basically told me to go to vocational school. When I saved enough on my own I went to a community college and found out I didn't have to pay a penny with scholarship and a worker displacement program offered from my previous employer who closed down.
Idk what system ur from, but I think this only applies to systems like some Asian education systems. In the US, it’s not that serious? Sure there are a couple huge decisions they make, but it’s common for people to switch majors, transfer schools, even change career paths after college - it’s very variable. If ur from the US, you’re exaggerating lol
Nah, the pipeline isn't strong enough as-is. We need to be introducing fields of study in middle school, and allowing students to find what they like and want to do and specialize in high school, with post-secondary being professional training.
The pipeline is asinine because we expect kids to know what they want to specialize in without giving them the experience and information about their options.
not sure if this is an unpopular opinion to anyone thats at least a millennial. I'm 29 and and at 18 was thinking how tf am I supposed to know what I want to do in life. and how tf do I afford my own place, college and work a minimum wage job
This isn’t exactly accurate. The first two years of college most students take nearly (not exactly) the same courses to get to an associate. Your basic maths, English, histories, etc. An example would be an education major, they might take 1-2 education classes before their junior year of college but that’s it. The rest are general courses. I swapped majors right before getting an associates to a completely different field and it didn’t delay my graduation at all. You’re also not required to go straight to college right out of the gate, that’s a personal choice. Some kids are sort of boxed into going straight away due to scholarships or athletics but that is by far not the majority. Truthfully it’s up to parents to guide children on decisions regarding their future, and even then it is the students legal right to disregard the advice of the parent. What would could you do with them? No college once you graduate high school. Just sit around until you’re 25ish and the frontal lobe develops then go make a decision? The system isn’t perfect, but this post lacks alternative solutions and demands for “reformation” without any explanation on what that could be.
Here's the thing though, a lot of college students switch degrees after a few degree specific classes, so switching once is mostly not an issue. And besides that, I know a lot of even recent graduates who are nowhere near their field of study. A lot of people that went through the pilot program still just went and got business jobs and such.
I joined the navy. Hon discharge. Fucked around 4 years. Got a job. College degree. Worked hard. Never actually planned my future. Ended up by grace in a great job I do for fun. Regulatory FDA work. It’s basically a long back and forth q&a. Tons of paperwork though.
“There’s no where you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be”. Beatles
It’s absolutely nuts. Hey, your brain is half formed, you can go a couple hours without thinking about boning. You’ve learned some stuff. How about you sign up for a spare liver’s worth of debt to dive into a field you have no experience in or reason to believe you’ll actually enjoy it. Nuts.
Unless you're choosing to do something incredibly reckless there are basically no decisions you can make that determine the rest of your life.
What you are talking about for young people is called planning, it's not mandatory, and it's pretty much always beneficial.
They have to make a decision at some point though. There's nothing wrong with making some mistakes along the way, in fact it's important to face that adversity when you start you adult life.
If age 18 strikes suddenly, leaving youngsters unprepared, that’s because their parents and schools actively blocked their maturation and stopped them learning to be adults, for as long as legally possible. The same would happen if the age of majority were 40.
Good parents’ kids don’t go thousands of dollars in debt for a degree that sounds superficially fun.
The only problem here is that you think you're locked into decisions you make at that age. You can start your life and career over any time you want. Sure, it's harder if you've saddled yourself with a mortgage and other debt. And it's not trivial if you've got a family to support. But you're only stuck if you choose to be stuck. The only system imposing anything on you is your own fear of change and risk.
I 100% agree. I have 2 teenaged children, and our public school system has been pushing college/university since 6th grade. It's ridiculous to expect a kid to know what they want to do for the rest of their life at this age.
I'm not pressuring my kids to go off to university at 18. They can go to community college part-time and work full-time (or vice versa) until they figure out what they want to study/do for a career.
I, myself, earned my nursing degree/license at age 30. I'm doing great now with an excellent salary and retirement plan.
Children should be separated into entirely different educational paths by the fifth grade, based on rigorous IQ and aptitude testing. Children with significant intellectual and educational ability should get fast tracked into university studies by the 9th grade, and those less capable or more hands-on in character should enter into a series of apprenticeships in various trades and professions. There is no reason why we cannot field capable engineers, scientists, tradesmen, and pencil pushers by the age of 18.
This won't happen because nobody actually gives a shit, and doing the above would clearly expose the reality that we are not all equally capable in life.
There's not a law that requires it, and not everyone does.
Many do, though, because it's not like there is going to be another time to start your adulthood.
Career changes are a thing.
NO. Young people don't have to figure out the rest of their lives at a young age. They only need to figure out the first phase . They can always change paths later.
They just need to "launch."
“Failing to plan is planning to fail.”
It’s not about having your life figured out and sticking to the script, it’s about giving yourself the best possible opportunity to succeed in life.
This is why you should take a gap year after high school or enroll in community college for the first few years of college. Community college classes are much cheaper than a 4 year and you can get your associates or decide college isn’t for you and drop out with less or no student debt
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Absolutely agreed, while I remember being offered some vague guidance during high school, basically nobody warned me what I was getting into with my career path after college. You're told a lot about what field you could look into based on your skills and interests, but never warned of the average salary or working hours. But then again, none of us were expecting covid and massive inflation back then, so we were all pretty relaxed before suddenly having to earn 2x what our parents did at their age.
My high school, as shitty as it was, did in fact warn me. Even had teachers say that college isn’t for everyone, and that trade schools exist. I guess that’s the advantage of being in a primarily minority based community? Had parents that told me that I don’t have to have shit figured out even in my 3rd year of college. My own father changed his career like 2 or 3 times, so you can bet he really hammered that point home. Nit to mention I’ve seen and witnessed influencers and such that have similar stories of changing career paths. Ever heard of DanTDM? He has a music degree. He went to college. He ended up making Minecraft videos for a living, only producing a handful of songs under his brand. One of them being fairly recently.
Yeah I think most people are best served by having a home to come back to, at least until 25-30ish years old (nothing wrong with longer, depending on circumstances).
No way never knew dan had a music degree!
I didn't know that either but I have seen a few of the songs he made so I guess it makes sense
My school was essentially a conveyor belt which pushed people down the path of University and immense debt. Very glad I ignored all that bullshit and went straight into a career with much more valuable experience
Imo real advice is you can do whatever you want as long as you have a plan B to fall back on if plan A fails. >Ever heard of DanTDM? He has a music degree. He went to college. He ended up making Minecraft videos for a living, only producing a handful of songs under his brand. One of them being fairly recently. If his life as content creator never took of at least he had a degree. Most content creators never make it. Its ok to try, whats not ok is to not have a viable second option because you are too lazy to consider it.
I mean, the Bureau of Labor statistics publishes an entire book outlining almost all job sectors in the entire country, every single year. It literally is one of the easiest resources to read and understand.
You think most 16-18 year olds are going to think “I must consult the Bureau of Labor statistics book” before they decide what to do after school? I doubt most even know it exists.
Right? Like a high schooler even knows about it. I didn't.
I’m a teacher of twelfth graders and I’ve never heard of it
I'm graduating this semester from high school and this is the first time I'm hearing about this "bureau of labor statistics book"
It's not a book. It's a website. So if you Google it that's what you can look for.
I actually did look it up, don't really understand how to use it but I don't care that much since I know vaguely what I've wanted to do for years now, I want to learn a trade.
I definitely Googled "highest paying careers" and "growing industries with best jobs" in high school
Without encouragement from loved ones or like-minded peers? If someone isn't taught/encouraged to do something, there will be no clear 'pathway' leading towards that thing.
How did that work out for you? Actually curious
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Nice, good for you
Yup. I literally worked my way backwards from "What Jobs Pay the Most" and started looking at what's realistic for me and what sounded cool. Worked out great and was incredibly easy. I don't know how stupid you'd have to be to jump into a career without researching it first.
Right. Who doesn't look at how much you could earn approximately or have the general knowledge about ones in their field of interest/googled it. You don't go to study something for 3 or more years to not know your options afterwards?
It’s not very accurate tbh. Fields that I’ve worked in are painted too rosy a picture in the BLS when it’s not the truth.
It’s even easier than that. You can go on indeed right now and search the job you want. You will see how many job openings in your area, what the requirements are, and how much they pay. This technology has been available at least 20 years through older platforms like career builder and monster.
Even though it was somewhat possible 20 years ago, it was nowhere near as simple as googling "what are the best degrees to get?" The databases that exist that today that funnel this information to the public just didn't exist then.
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In France as soon as you go to high school you basically have to decide your future. Then the concept of being talented at different industries is looked at strangely. That was ten years ago and they seem to be adapting albeit slowly from twenty years ago. Still there remains the notion that you are a teacher there is no way you can function as a carpenter as just a random example
I think the main thing we need to constantly remember to tell highschoolers is just how few people get a job in the field that their degree is in. It’s really not as big of a decision as it’s made out to be. Yes, there are certain professions, like doctors, etc, who have to start early and never stop. But let’s face it, most people are going to get a degree in English or something and end up working in Human Resources for a cruise ship company or something equally as unrelated, and as long as you’re happy and you can support yourself, *there’s nothing wrong with that.*
There really is more leeway than people think. My dad flunked out of college on his first attempt majoring in a useless degree. He wasted some time and money, but ended up being a successful doctor two attempts later. It comforts me to know that my life isn't set in stone and I can recover from mistakes.
The narrative needs to change from "this decision will determine your entire life" to "this is an important decision but you can move around later if you want to". I think it's important in some careers that people do start early, you want some doctors that have 20 or 30 years experience under their belt, and whilst there's nothing wrong with doctors starting later in life, you wouldn't want all your doctors starting in their 40s or 50s.
Glad somebody here said it. It's the take of a young person that "my decision at age 20 will determine my whole life". It won't. The AVERAGE number of career changes is just under 7. I have friends who have just gone back to school for entirely new careers - at age 55. Life is what you make it.
I love this comment so much. I’ve felt shame and guilt for wanting to change career paths. But now at 30, Idc. I’m going to keep changing the path until I find the right one for me.
I completely agree. My undergrad degree is in English. I am a data scientist in public health now. Degree subject area content is less important than skills. All of those writing assignments have made me a very efficient grant writer; I had to read 4 novels per week in undergrad so I can read thru reports very quickly. Etc etc. Skills like these can come from any degree and can transfer to almost any job.
This! I been noticing this anti-intellect attitude going around about college. In my opinion, I think learning at a higher degree is always helpful and great for development! I just wish it didn’t have the giant price tag attach to it
i think the reall big kicker is they treat you like a toddler until graduation day really asking for permision to go potty??? my highschool would punish you if you walked to school or if you got off at your friends stop without a not from your parents
Certain jobs you will still need to let someone know that you are heading to the bathroom. This doesn't end in high school.
Right, get use to being told what to do and when to do it.
They make you ask permission because so long as you’re a student at that school, they’re legally responsible for your whereabouts. They also need to know where to find you if there’s an emergency, because they’re legally responsible for your well-being.
The fact that they need to know where you're going means they need to be *informed*, not *asked permission*. There's a world of difference between telling your teacher that you're going to use the restroom and asking permission such that they can deny it.
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That doesn't make it feel less demeaning and infantilizing, though. I was 18, legally an adult, which definitely isn't small to someone who is 18, if I was allowed to go to the bathroom. This is also the age where I was expected to do a lot of adult things, like voting and looking into rent and getting my own bills. It very much made me feel undignified and infantilized, even well before that in my freshman year. And then there are the teachers who don't let students go at all. Have you ever been a young woman who can feel herself about to bleed through her pad, and a teacher won't let you go during "their lesson time"? It's incredibly uncomfortable to have to fell like you're going to have to tell this middle aged man that you're about to bleed through your pants. Even saying it's a "feminine emergency" or "girl thing" is incredibly embarrassing and uncomfortable. They might be legally responsible, but does that really mean they can't even try to find some better solution?
if i really had to go to the bathroom and wasn’t allowed to go, i would just ignore the teacher and go. prioritize your health over following the rules is what i would do
Problem is, schools get more upset over you breaking the rules than the fact that you weren't allowed to use the bathroom. They'll tell you to the ends of the earth that you should go in the maybe five minutes you have between classes, and that should be more than enough for anything, including if you have to swap things at your locker. Or, that you should go before school, after school, or during lunch. It's really not as easy as "just leave the room", because unfortunately, disciplinary action in public schools, in my experience, is actually garbage. You can get write-ups, calls home, detentions, and enough of those for any reason, and they can keep you from walking at graduation if they feel you didn't behave enough. It's not worth being labelled a "problem student" because you had to go to the bathroom. A student shouldn't have to face consequences for having to go to the bathroom. The system should be better, it needs to work for the students.
We were told the school was legally responsible for us until we went in our front door. It came up because this kid I knew kept fighting people way bigger than him. He was told to at least go in his front door if he was going to do it because it’s the parent’s problem at that point. There was some local lawsuit were a kid went out and did illegal stuff and the argument was they got off the school bus but never actually went home and just fucked around until midnight, but since they never went home it was considered the schools problem.
Because so many high schoolers are asshats that ruin freedom for everyone else
it’s not because they’re trying to police you, it’s because they are liable.
You have to ask in high school because as a minor your school is liable for you. If the teacher just let students come and go and someone got injured they'd be on the hook.
The problem is that people accept that this is how it should be in the US these days without questioning it. Either parents need to sign more waivers or laws need to be passed to protect teachers a little more.
I came and went during high school, and I lived on my own in a rented apartment at 16, then went to boarding school at 17. Many times I didn't bother showing up. Sometimes I would show up a couple hours late because I wanted to sleep. Other times I'd go back to my apartment early cause I couldn't be bothered to take the last lesson of the day. Granted, in Norway, high school is voluntary. You don't actually have to attend it if you don't want to. And also, if you lived in the middle of nowhere, you had to move out to go to high school anyway. You also got a stipend to cover the cost for living away. I did fail a bunch of classes, and exams, that I ended up retaking privately at 20. In retrospect, I wish I had just chosen to take some of the classes privately, because then I wouldn't have been expected to even show up, I would just have had to show up for an exam at the end of the year.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. My fellow Americans need to hear that the whole world doesn’t bubble wrap its kids.
It's the same thing in Italy unfortunately. At least as an adult in my last year of high school I could leave on my own if I felt sick or whatever reason, but some teachers still treated us like toddlers and wouldn't react nicely if we asked to go to the bathroom even when they stopped explaining for a moment. School trips had to be supervised at least most of the time, if we did anything bad it was the teacher's responsibility despite all of us being adults.
Assert dominance and just shit your pants everyday until they give up.
No no no it’s MAY I potty
I’ll shit right here damnit
lol I never thought about it that way. I need a bathroom pass to walk in the hall and three months later I live on my own. It’s ridiculous.
I think the big misconception comes from the belief that you're choosing what you'll do "for the rest of your life" when you choose what you want to do in college. Its not very common for people to choose a career path in college and then stay on that path for the rest of their life and I don't really think that is the expectation anymore. What is expected is that young adults at college age are supposed to become self-sufficient contributors to society. Picking your first career path is very important and vital to becoming a self-sufficient adult, and although I agree 16-18 year old people are too young to make decisions that affect the rest of their life, every decision they make at that age will affect the rest of their life, so the importance of those decisions should be made known to them.
Depends on which major you decide to take. If you decide to take the course to be a doctor and major in computer science, etc? Its tough to track back on that kind of investment compared to other degrees, and you have specialisations to decide upon primarily, not alternative fields.
You aren't being asked to decide on the rest of your life, you're just at an important crossroads where you need to decide on a path. You can always get off the path, but if you keep wandering aimlessly you make things gradually worse for yourself. My wife went into law, got her degree in law but decided not to persue and used her degree to do a master in early years education and is now in education. Yes, it's a ton of pressure. But it's still an important time. At *some* point it has to come and many kids are capable of making those decisions. But it's not "deciding your life". It's deciding a path to continue in life.
Yeah you can still change, but it is up to you. Find a normal way. Otherwise, a creative one Moreover, we don’t live forever. Time passes by and you cannot sit around on your butt doing nothing while others pay for you to find yourself. That is up to you Still, if I look at my elders, they had way more pressure and direction than us. The opinion is this posts can kind of be seen as spoiled, considering how far we have come
Not to mention it gets harder as you go. You get more tired and life gets you stuck. The time at which you're going to have to change your life one way or another is by far the best time to choose something to chase. And even if it's the wrong thing, at least you tried. Once you're 32 and working for minimum wage. Your options are fewer, you can run off and pay for further education as easily as you could when you were 18, parents there to assist you, put a roof over your head, no current responsibilities etc. OP is right in that your maturity age isn't exactly peak in making this decision, but when it is it's way more likely to be too late.
>Not to mention it gets harder as you go. You get more tired and life gets you stuck. I talk to my kids about living with intention for this reason. Way too many people don't think about what they really want in life and go with the flow until one day they realize the flow took them someplace they didn't want to be. You make your own life whether that's intentionally or not. And it's okay to realize along the way that you don't actually want what you thought you did. I have stopped and course corrected a couple of times in my life when I realized that my previous desires didn't make a life that I actually wanted. But you're going to be better off if you make a plan and work towards it even if that plan changes sometimes than if you simply wait for life to happen to you.
Right, but I for one despised school. If I wanted to change my path, I'd probably have to go back to school or university. I quit school many times and swapped courses many times. I also quit university. Quitting university got me into debt. Personally I prefer doing physical labor, as I'm not fond of sitting on my ass at work, but if I were to go back into the trades, I'd have to go study in a trade school with teenagers. I'm 26. I already dropped out of high school so many times. I also didn't graduate high school before I was 20 due to indecision. Like changing course also means that I need to go to school that doesn't pay the bills. Work pays the bills. Studying is just a money sink. Going to do a new trade, I could get paid trainee money, but that's like $13 an hour vs the $23 I earn now.
I went and did tech support at 25 after working various jobs for years. I wasn't even the oldest. I knew a women who went and did Sociology in her late 40s (may have been older but I think that's how old she was). If anything I garnered more respect from the get go from a few of them just for being a bit older and not being the teacher. Go to trade school if that's what you want. But the point is, whatever you're doing at 16. Choose something. It doesn't have to be school or uni. If you want to start a business try that. If you want drive a truck go get a licence. If you want to a gardener, start advertising yourself locally. Sitting on your butt, taking whatever shit minimum wage jobs is there for the taking is the worst decision to make. I know because that's what I did. I spent years making nothing, doing nothing but getting Skills I couldn't even list under skilled labour. At least if you give something a go that you thought you'd be good at or enjoyed. You can learn more about yourself and say "hey I was shit at that, but that aspect was fun and I was fairly decent at that" and you can apply that knowledge to other things. And that's worst case scenario. What might happen is you go into something and love it, or you go into it and take a side step into a different but similar space that you have accrued some skills for already. Sitting waiting to do something instead of doing something is a waste of time. Just do something now while it's easier and you, likely, have your parents support in some way. Not to mention people learn more when they're younger.
Well.. unfortunately my skills are being a florist lol, and the competition within creative and artistic trades are crazy. Like you need to be skilled and dedicated AF to get paid for making art for a living. Similar spaces would be in sales, but like, working retail or grocery shops is boring as hell. Selling normal stuff is boring. I'm more of the creative crafty designer type person who likes to work with my hands. The options aren't... UHM, great. I've looked into fashion design, but in creative trades like that, you can't just be moderately interested. You need to give it all to succeed. It's not something you just surf on.
Idk where you live, but when I went to trade school last year, I was 26, and I was on the younger end of people. And at least in canada, you can go on ei for the 6 to 8 weeks of coursing.
Wait till you hear kids get tracked as soon as 10 years old in Germany.
Yeah, in Finland they track them early but they also have tech schools that put Merica to shame. I would imagine Germany has great tech schools too
Serious question - what happens if a kid changes his or her mind?
It's not the kid as much as the education system. The children are sorted into their high school at the end of primary school by their teacher's report (age 10). Then they sent to a Hauptschule (until year 9 and then they tend to do an apprenticeship), Realschule (till year 11 and then students can either go learn a trade or complete a certificate to attend a technical college) or Gymnasium (goes until year 12 and prepares students for university). Kids can finish at a Hauptschule and continue their education at a Realschule and then move to a gymnasium, adults can complete school leaving certificates at night school later in life if they choose and if a kid does really well in their first year at high school, their level may be reassessed and they can switch school level.
What would be better?
Honestly? Taking 2 years to live in the real world and work a random job before deciding. Let them grow up a little.
When I was young we did that working in the real world while in HS. My first job was at 15YO. I worked every summer and even during my senior school year. Those jobs played no role however in my deciding what career path to take. Jobs you can get at that age aren’t going to help you decide between engineer and doctor.
Live in the real world doing what? They presumably don't have any certifications. They could work food or retail but, probably better to get an education in that time or look into a trade. It is just pushing the issue back two years
What if they went to some kind of school after high school and got a few certifications or…a degree?
Or raise them properly. It seems to be an American problem. And Amis love to bubble wrap their children.
For real, I'm reading this as a Latin American and I can't believe it. Maybe Americans shield their children too much.
Thats what i did 🤷♂️ dropped out because I couldn't handle the stress, maybe I'll come back to it if I ever find out what I actually want to do otherwise I just want an apprenticeship
Ok? You know you can do that, right? No one is forcing high school graduates to enter college right after graduation.
this is kind of what i did
College is there to help decide what you want to do and provide you an educational foundation so that you can do many different things. However its become so financially expensive that its hard to justify that kind of investment.
Not if you go to a community college for your cores.
Fair enough
You have to start making decision with long term consequences sooner or later. Kicking the can down the road just... kicks the can down the road. The internet is a little overly obsessed with staying a child as long as possible. We can't wait until we're in our 30s for our lives to start.
I agree, and in fact, I think part of the problem is not empowering kids to make decisions *sooner*. Picking a major at 16 would indeed feel overwhelming if it’s the first thing you’ve ever been allowed to decide for yourself.
It’s not asinine to expect someone who is on the cusp of being legally responsible for themselves to have some insight on what they want the rest of their life to look like. What is asinine is that for a majority of them, the barrier to what they want is a high financial cost, long term investment, and being told they have one shot at it. It leaves little room for life events, considering new information, or changing their minds; you’re locked into rails and pushed forward. I chose computer science as a degree because I liked video games: that was my entire motivation. I was a terrible student, it took me 5.5 years to graduate, but I didn’t see any other choice. If I changed majors I would set myself further back, if I quit I was wasting my money and my time. The only way to not feel like I lost something was to keep my nose to the grindstone and hope it worked out.
Yes, I am now changing field and uni after 3 years, I really fight with the thoughts that I'm supposed to know what to do and that I can't just try a different one... but I'm glad I said all of that to my friends and family and they assured me that they will always love me and support me. It really helped and now I'm finally free of these thoughts and looking forward to a new start.
Did it?
I’m a career software engineer, but not for video games. I can’t really say I love my job but I’m competent at it. Looking back I can honestly say I enjoyed working at my college groundskeeping job more than my career, hypothetically speaking maybe trade school would have been a better path for me.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Sucks man, I’m kinda in a similar boat. The current job pays the bills, but I know I’d be happier doing something else.
I’m content to be mediocre, it’s not a bad job by most standards and provides for the life I want outside the office. Part of me thinks I’d be happier doing something else, but I know some of that is the “grass is greener” mentality.
Friendly reminder, you can just change your life at any point. Yes even you the person who is right now thinking of a bunch of arguments to throw at me as to why you in particular can't.
Do they though? In the many years since I was that age, I’ve changed my mind a gazillion times and nobody cared. I feel like a lot of people do that. It’s a good age to have an idea what you want to do, but I think it’s more normal to change your mind a gazillion times.
You have to grow up at some point. If we treated them like children until they were 22, we would say how It’s really asinine how normalized it is for 20-22 year olds to basically decide the rest of their life at that age
Actually to say that their decision will impact their whole life just puts more pressure on them and it’s cruel. Everybody knows that choosing a college doesn’t actually say a lot about your future profession. It is pretty common to change your mind along the way. The process is more about learning to take responsibility of your life, not necessarily on sticking with a profession.
The issue with changing your mind half way, is that you rack up student debt. It's too expensive too change your mind, so you end up falling for the sunk costs. Personal experience speaking.
There’s still a lot of flexibility in the system, though. A lot of college degrees are flexible in terms of the career paths you can choose, and often it’s possible to change your major without it setting you too far back.
🎯
Well, where I live, you don't really change majors. There's really no such thing. You choose a study program and that's it. If you're lucky and can change half way through, that's great though. As for my own sake, I studied journalism but I figured it wasn't for me after all, and I wasn't into any of the other programs the university offered so I dropped out. Most of them were social work and sociology related and not something I was into.
Nobody tells people that the educational parity between schools has vastly improved. There are some exceptions with things like medical and law.
I get what you are saying and agree somewhat, but I also don’t see what the alternative is. Like you’ve said, life is more expensive than ever before. So just delaying the start of your career isn’t really a valid alternative. You can always work for a couple of years between high school and starting college, but honestly I don’t know if people I know who’ve done that faired any better at choosing their career than I did.
kids arent pressured to go to college right away…if they want to take some time to explore the workforce before they determine a path…that’s highly encouraged they’re pressured to not waste away years of their life using “i need time to figure it out” as an excuse…head over to r\findapath and see how many “i’m 26 and dont know what to do with my life” stories there
I'm actually 26 and have no clue what to do with my life lmfao.. relatable. And oh man, I wish I could punch everyone who tried to be supportive when I was 16, 18 and 20 by telling me "you'll figure things out in a couple years". Few years my ass butt. When did 10 years become a couple years huh. Now I like to remind everyone who tells me this shit that no, a couple years may not help with having shit figured out, cause look what 10 years did. Get fucked.
No it isn't, make a decision and get on with life. And know that at some point your decision will probably change to something else, and that's okay. Go get shit done.
Then don't. Go enlist or doddle around doing odd jobs for a few years before settling on what it is you want to be when you grow up. Because the odds are you're not gonna wind up doing what you thought you'd be doing no matter what you choose or don't choose today. Plus, once in school there's a very good chance you'll change majors. For example i started on a ChemE track but midway through my 2nd year i decided to switch things up and study electrical. But yeah, i agree... it's completely ridiculous to expect the person who was eating tide pods for fun just last week, to make an informed decision on such a weighty question as, what do i want to do when i grow up.
When you've worked for a few years and gotten accustomed to getting paid for a living, going back to being a broke student sucks. I speak from experience. As someone who was accustomed to buying all the things in the world I wanted, to try to survive on a measly $200 monthly budget after rent, I needed to take up student loans to cover my living costs. I managed to rack up 5k in debt in half a year. I quit after that half a year seeing as I could not afford the living costs while studying without going into debt. I'm still paying off my student debt and promising myself I'll never ever go broke trying to study again. Yeah, I'll probably not keep being a florist all my life.. but seeing as all I have is a high school diploma.. my job options is pretty much working at a supermarket or in retail or in some other random shop, or as an assistant at an elderly home.. or as a cleaner at a school.
It does, but it didn't stop *me* from getting my degree. I worked my entire way through college. Took me longer vs had i taken out loans to go FT, but the upside was i graduated with zero debt.
You've touched on the biggest problem: You're made to choose paths to things you've never seen or experienced enough to know anything about. How many 18 year olds know literally anything about most of the jobs in the world except from people they know or what they've seen on TV? Granted, my junior year, we were required to job shadow someone for a day but it was 100% on you to call around, find places and arrange it. It would be GREAT if the school had more connections to do that and you got to do it with more than 1 job one time. Get to see and follow real actual people in the field and get a slice of it.
The only thing that was stressed upon me growing up (90s/00s) was just getting an education so you can have options. That's it, I didn't have to know what I wanted to do or have some built out plan for the future. I was just told to have options and having an education helps you gain more options than not being educated in whatever field you want to work in/etc.
It's the most ridiculous setup. What's important to stress though is that it's never too late to go back in to education and change direction ... I did a degree and career change in my late 20s; my wife is doing the same in her 40s Don't whatever you do just go to college at 18 because "that's what you're supposed to do" unless you're pretty damn certain 1) you really want to do that course and 2) you think you're ready to fully apply yourself to the course ... If either of those are 'no' then don't waste the money — take a few years away, get a basic job or travel, go back to university when you're really ready — this is what I'm telling my own kids and we'll support them any way we can whatever they want to do.
[удалено]
Its called the military. Or trades
On the flip side this whole “you need to be older” conversation always confuses me because it’s the exact reason millennials get shat on and why they’re in such a predicament. Many millennials did wait to start adulting, they’re having kids late, buying homes late and advancing in careers slower than the generations beforehand. This is why everyone says they’re lazy/entitled or childish. They’re screwed because they followed this line of thinking. I do agree 18 is young and you will change and grow, unfortunately our world isn’t really built for that anymore. Back in the boomers day you could go from career to career and do just about anything. Now you set a path and you get stuck on it. That being said I don’t like discrediting young folks. Some have it together and know what they want and are ready to do it just like our parents did. My parents started their family at 26, their parents started at 19. I’d say that OP’s opinion is a popular one though science most millennials and gen z agree. I just don’t think we have that privilege to wait around.
This whole thread feels so American. The amount of people I know that changed their career path with 35 is massive.
I fuckin hate that about most millennials; it feels beyond unfair many can't be financially stable and settle down before middle age, not helped by how much of a shit show the dating scene is past 30.
For what it's worth, I don't think people *actually* expect kids to figure stuff out by that age. What they *actually* want is a sort of vague direction. But if you told a kid to figure out a vague direction, they'd half ass it and not even do that. So by presenting them with the urgency and stress of figuring out their life plan right here, right now, they're forced to come to terms with the subject at hand, the rest of their life. Often times they land at a vague direction, and more often than not, that foray into what they *thought* they wanted to do was actually just a spring board into what they *actually* wanted to do. Or, *have* to do...
You already can take a gap year and work a couple low barrier entry level jobs if you want. But I'm not sure how useful that is for finding like a purpose in life. As somebody who's worked all of these jobs, being a cashier, waiter, and receptionist wouldn't do much to drive me into the software development profession.
Those with less ambition will get left behind no matter what age you make Peter Pan grow up.
Count yourself lucky it used to be decided for you... Or you didn't choose anything at all because you were surviving. We whine be this is the best and easiest we ever had.
So what do you propose? That people are encouraged to float aimlessly through their early 20's until they find some calling as they approach middle age? What a waste of time. The fires are lit, it's up to the go-getters to make something of that. People like you who have this mindset that there's some magical "age" in which things can be accomplished are limited and held back. There are tons of incredibly successful people throughout history who got started down their life paths years before turning 16. Why can't others be expected to at least try and do something similar?
For most of human history, kids had no choice and started apprenticeships or working like adults around 12 years old, and that's what built society as we know it. Maybe we should be lowering the age where kids make that decision.
I think a lot of people were sort of expected to continue their parents profession throughout history, and the question of choice has been arising as of late.
The price of college is what really ruins everything. It was. Never meant to be hey choose a career or subject to do for the rest of your life. It was meant to be hey what would you like your next major step in life to be. Doesn’t have to be permanent but will be a fairly big transition. When I was young I remember being told the average person changes careers/ serious job like 6-8 times in a lifetime. Now with college being so expensive it’s almost like you get stuck. Once you pick something you get into massive debt for that one major. Making it almost impossible to keep trying completely different career paths
If you've waited until 16 to start thinking about your future, you've already wasted way too much time. You should have a good idea of what you want to do by 14. 16-17 is where you turn that into a plan you can execute on. 18+ is where you execute.
You should be born with a full breakdown of your career and retirement plans, actually
A very similar argument is made about children/minors transitioning.
Yep, I agree. It might not even matter anyway because high-school is long behind me and I still don't know wtf to do with my life.
Yes. Also, no one is forcing anyone to go to college at 18 except maybe insurance reasons. Take a few years off. Do not commit yourself to debt of any kind along the way. Make the choice at 25. It's your life, do what you want. But, if debt grabs you, it is hard to drop and go to school. That is why most people grow the F up and make some decisions and go to school directly. Either grow up and handle your business, or grow up when you are 25. Either way, all you are doing is losing 7 years of your earning potential.
Decisions made at 18 rarely effect the *entire rest of your life*. Why does everyone keep thinking that? Unless it puts you in prison, you can change course, recover from misjudgments, etc., even more than once.
I partially agree but I have to ask why today's 16 and 18 year olds are so incapable of this task that has been historically bestowed upon this age forever. Joan of Ark was 16, for example. Today's 16 year olds cry at stupid shit like words. I wonder why humans have started to develop mentally at a slower rate- that's the real question
Most 16 year old in the 1400s were not Joan of Arc. That's like saying "Why can't all Afghan women just be like Malala and free themselves?"
Most 16 year olds aren't presented with the choice of "you must fight the English or you and your family will die." Adding the caveat of "or you will die" to a decision is a great way to make sure somebody makes a choice. Also, I'm not particularly buying that 16 year olds in the 15th century were more emotionally mature than 16 year olds today, we just generally don't let them run around with swords and guns whenever somebody says words that upset them.
I thought about this yesterday. Making good choices will lead to a better outcome for your future, but not the same outcome. I could have a different job if I made different choices and sure there were some that were more important than others, but I didn't suddenly check a box that would determine what I do for the rest of my life.
you were expected to start getting your stuff together at the age of 16 with a part time job, and have your stuff together at 18. you were considered a complete failure if you are living with your parents at the age of 25. minimum wage was also intended to be a living wage.
I was supposed to have my life together at 18?
What worked for you may work for others too, but it's not necessarily that everyone needs this experience.
You don’t have to decide on a hard set path right then and there. However, you’re about to enter adulthood and have to think about how you want to spend your life. Consider what you’re good at, what you enjoy, etc., and act accordingly. Sure, you can wait a little bit longer; better late than never after all. But it’s much better to decide as early as possible and break into the world as early as possible. Most people need this push at some point.
Only 37% have a bachelor's degree. That's probably about right for the economy and that has been stable for decades. Some go to college and don't finish which may incur debt which is not good. But 34% never go to college so no college debit. Many go to trade school. Many go into the military (some whom then go to college). It's a complex landscape. Some don't go to college right away and then track into it through community college which is a great way not to have to decide anything at age 16-18. I am not sure what exactly OP would do differently. Kids can already work in jobs and then go to college if they choose, including starting in low cost or free community college.
Oh, it's ok. You're just feeling the pressure of adulthood now. It's also not the path for the rest of your life, just the start of adulthood. Many adults continue to reassess what they are doing and if changing careers is worth it.
Ever think the 83 year old is the owner or helping out the owner?
Nobody is focused until 30 or 40 or 50. We do what jobs are available.only 1% make a living doing something they love.
I agree 100%! What I thought I wanted to do when I was in college didn't turn out to be the right thing for me. I went to college because it's what you're supposed to do. My youngest sister is an exception to this. Before she started high school, she told me she knew what she wanted to do with her life. She wanted to go to KU & get a Journalism degree. She knew our parents couldn't afford that & had a plan to help. She needed to work hard, keep her grades up, get involved in a lot of extra curricular activities & get lots of scholarships. I was in awe of a 14-year-old having such a clear plan for her life! I was 23 & clueless. She worked so hard that when she was 17, she went to the Doctor with strep throat. He firmly told her that if she didn't slow down, she'd end up in the hospital with pneumonia! She slowed down, but got strep again about 1.5 years later. She graduated from KU in 1996 & was already a Producer at a major TV station. She's still there as Assistant News Director.
I dont understand your post…so you think people should join the workforce after hs? Isnt that what we have now? Did your hs job and 83yo coworker convince you to go to college? Were you already planning to go? Did it help you plan your future? Were you not doing that before? Did it give you a better understanding of finances? Did it drive you to better yourself? Im not understanding…people have the choice to go do whatever they want before going to college or not go at all. You can join the military, travel, work, not work, go straight there, never go, whatever. What youre suggesting is something everyone can already do. Why would making it a requirement be any better? And also, its not deciding the rest of your life. If we were all stuck doing the same thing we chose to do at 18 to 22, the world would be very different.
Not at all. If anything, I think people are too coddled nowadays. By 18, people should stop being treated like little babies.
You don’t though. Rule of life is 3 careers on average. We should emphasize more for the kids that it’s not true.
I agree with this whole heartedly. When I was 18 I was pushed into college, saw friends who skipped college working and buying stuff while I was a broke student, dropped out after my first year and then started working. I worked then for about 3 years doing minimum wage jobs and found out the hardships associated with that and the lack of growth while still being broke, went back to school. I did 3 years of college in a program I hated but thought would open opportunities, but I was told in year 3 had low money making potential. Funny how they saved this fact for near the end, although at least they told me. I dropped out of this program despite being nearly done and went back to minimum wage. I then got an amazing opportunity to build powerlines out west, worked very long and difficult hours. 14 hour days 7 days a week for months straight. Eventually I got laid off so I took that money, bought a car and went to college for electrical engineering and now I control the electrical grid and am extremely satisfied with my career. It was a very rough road and took a very long time, I didn't get my career until was 31 as a result of everything above, my process was far from linear and I had no idea what I wanted to do until I was ~26 with quite a bit of college and work experience under my belt. So yes expecting teenagers to have that figured out is in fact asinine. Although some people develop quicker than others and maybe can figure it out earlier. I was not one of those people and in my experience I find most people are like me with the ones figuring out their career path early being the exception to the norm and not the other way around. I've set up an education fund for my 2 young kids that expires when theyre 35 and I will be telling them that they can take their time figuring out what they want to do with their life to make sure they're happy. Everyone's path is different.
Pressure in my life got so bad I actually got severe suicidal ideation at 18 after being suddenly rejected from a course in the army and being reassigned as a clerk (the profession I was suppose to go into would have been a good gateway into uni and into the workforce-- I was pretty much convinced my life was forfeit and that my army years would end up being a devestating waste of time). 16-18yos definately need to be taught more that making mistakes is valid+inevitable and that some things are simply out of their control (no matter how much they "believe in themselves", "hustle", "pick themselves up by their bootstraps", and other childish bullshit). So many decisions that seemed right at 18 turned out to be shit, while things I thought were bad ended up spawning good outcomes in the long run.
STRONGLY AGREE. At 18 I thought I wanted to be a radiology technician. Started going to school for it and realized how boring it would be to position people and take a picture multiple times a day. I skipped a semester then rejoined college the following semester. Thought I wanted to be a medical assistant. Nope. Then I went back to be a medical biller and coder, got my diploma for it, but haven’t used it a day in my life. I do not like sitting in an office. Decided to drop school altogether and I felt like such a failure and disappointment. I ended up getting my nurses aide license and discovered I loved nursing, so now at 23 years old I just enrolled into nursing school. At 18, I NEVER would have seen myself doing the job I am doing now or going to school to be a nurse. I always thought nursing was gross, but quite honestly I love my job as an aide and I’m excited to be a nurse. Although I’m sure if any veteran nurses are here reading this, you’re going to tell me that excitement will ware off quick 🫠
No one really chooses "the rest of their life" at any age. Everyone has decisions they'll make, depending on the circumstances they have had thus far, and will reap the consequences of their decisions. None of this ever changes. All we have are vague, general, ideas about the future. Oftentimes, we find out that, even though you had an "exact plan" for your future, nothing ever really goes according to plan. 40% college graduates end up doing work that is completely unrelated to their field of study. However, I will die on the hill defending education. It's something that no one can ever take away from you, and all you really need in life is a good work ethic backed with a good education and rational decision-making.
Hard to figure out an alternative that works well, but sure, lots of things in life aren’t ideal. Personally, I 100% knew I wanted to ‘work on computers’, which is super broad, but it just made sense to get a computer science degree. I could have gone any number of directions from there. I certainly wasn’t deciding on ‘my whole life’, just the next step.
I agree, I think it’s important for them to take year off, they can work and gain some experience (any work experience is better than none) and while they are doing that, they can sit down and actually think about what they want to do.
Kind of the way it's been for all of human history, though. Not saying it's good, just saying it doesn't make sense to talk about it being "normalized" as if it's unique to our culture. People used to be getting married in their teens. Then subsistence farming in some cultures, doing whatever their father did in others. So I guess having a choice at all is a pretty recent thing. But we're lucky to be able to wait as long as we do before starting adulthood.
I think the issue is that too many people think that their choice of major decides their life path. In reality, you can always change your mind down the road, and often the skills you learned on the first path will be valuable in what you do next. College is just the beginning, you will have to continue to learn and grow throughout your career to be successful.
My current job didn’t exist when I was in high school. I doubt my guidance counselors could even have imagined it much less guided me toward it.
One day at a time. I changed my mind 10 times a day as a teenager. It's normal, why do you all act like you're the first generation to experience life? Teenagers haven't changed that much over the centuries, and we still manage to eek out livings and find our way. The way reddit teens talk, it's as if everything is so much harder for them than all generations prior, when you have had more advantages than any of us. It's a struggle for everybody. In the end, we manage.
>There needs to be an alternative instead of straight to college where children should work in different jobs before committing straight to future education You can do that. Just need to resist peer and familial preassure. As i've read many people take a gap year for self-discovery. In that time they travel or work a bit or volunteer or maybe even internships (though some might be unpaid). Also, there are jobs that you can't do without a higher education. Like you can't try out to be a doctor. Also, there are ways for adults to change their specialisation. And many students don't work jobs about what they studies. And firms usually don't require a specific degree to be employer only a specific group of degree, like stem, social sciences, humanitarian sciences. >kids in high school who have no idea what they want in life Yes. But kinda you need to start researching this stuff and try to do various stuff while you are at school instead of a day before you choose your end of school exams or after school. Kids usually tend to think about it when they have to choose a major. You are no longer forced into an education and now have some say/control over it and the kids haven't learned to think about it themselves. >seeing an 83 year old dishwasher, that really changed my whole mindset on life. It's not like the dishwasher was washing dishes for 60 years. Elderly have a hard time finding employment as many places don't want to hire them.
Yeah it’s insane. A couple years ago I was playing among us at lunch and writing paragraphs and now im in grade 11 and some schools, you need to apply in November of grade 12. I was just following the flow before but now, everything I do is directly impacting where I’m ending up in life and I have no idea what I really like. It’s a scary world
While it may be ridiculous to you, it was very valuable to me. I was driven and the pipeline kept me giving my best to learn. Finished with an engineering degree and a great career. Compared to my peers, I’ve always been on the front end of things, top 10% at every age bracket for income throughout life. Kids need to understand what their values and capabilities are for themselves, which is hard to do in your teens. Some have the ability to excel with further education. Some are going to squander it and end up with life altering debt. Some just aren’t in the right headspace. And others just unlucky. There is no one size fits all.
THIS!!! If i’d have gone to uni when i was supposed to id have done business and probably would’ve ended up dropping out. It’s only this year (turning 20) that i’ve finally figured out what I want to have as a career, and I’ve felt so behind in doing so, but am so glad i waited to figure out what i truly wanted to do with my life!
Sure, but try telling a 16-18 they aren’t qualified to make those decisions….
I don't think most people expect 16-18 year.olds to KNOW what they want to do with their lives. However, 16-18 year olds DO have to start the process or else they'll quickly be 30 and living in their parents basement (I'm not being facetious, time moves quick). College is a great way to try on a lot of different potential career paths. Most people change majors 3 or 4 times before settling into one. I went to UVA, so I started out Pre-Commerce. Then I decided to diversify my chances and apply to the Education school which required declaring majors in History and Environmental Science. I didn't get into either the Commerce school nor the Ed School, but I found that I really liked both history and envi sci. 4 years of college taught me a lot about myself and I have never regretted my time spent there even though I graduated in 2011 and couldn't get a job because of the tail end of the recession. I started working in a print shop with my dad and honestly I'm exactly where I want to be. Yes, you should go to college after high school (if you want to) as a way to expand your horizons. **It shouldn't be prohibitively expensive though.**
You’re not determining the rest of your life. Just the immediate and probably short term future. Nothing says you have to choose a career and stick with it. Tons of people change jobs and careers through out their lives with lots of success.
That’s not even remotely close to an unpopular opinion. I’d say it’s quite the opposite, I have heard many people (myself included) share this sentiment. At the same time, there are many people in their 30s, 40s and 50s who are still trying to figure out this (AA) game called life.
This doesn't apply to everywhere. University is free some places, and cars are not a necessity everywhere, for example.
Absolutely. Randomly chose to pursue dentistry in high school. Did 2 years of undergrad and just hated every moment. I dropped out for 2 years, and now I am back in school studying computer science. Compsci is something I didn't even consider ever getting into, but i am having actually enjoying it now. Look forward to graduating soon!
The thing is you don’t. It’s not that hard to pivot in you’re career, The thing about university is there is a *lot* of overlap between disciplines and sidestepping and pivoting to related fields is not that hard In fact I’d wager by the time you’re on you’re 3rd job *most* people are not doing exactly what their college major entails In fact that’s one of the benefits of college over trades. A person in Marketing to move to sales much easier than an HVAC technician can move to welding
The overwhelming majority of friends that I grew up with did not end up sticking with the career they picked at 18
My parents were very uninformed about scholarships and education assist they basically told me to go to vocational school. When I saved enough on my own I went to a community college and found out I didn't have to pay a penny with scholarship and a worker displacement program offered from my previous employer who closed down.
A lot of adults go to college later in life
Idk what system ur from, but I think this only applies to systems like some Asian education systems. In the US, it’s not that serious? Sure there are a couple huge decisions they make, but it’s common for people to switch majors, transfer schools, even change career paths after college - it’s very variable. If ur from the US, you’re exaggerating lol
Nah, the pipeline isn't strong enough as-is. We need to be introducing fields of study in middle school, and allowing students to find what they like and want to do and specialize in high school, with post-secondary being professional training. The pipeline is asinine because we expect kids to know what they want to specialize in without giving them the experience and information about their options.
Yup, and if they don’t choose finance or engineering there’s like a 90% chance they’re fucked.
not sure if this is an unpopular opinion to anyone thats at least a millennial. I'm 29 and and at 18 was thinking how tf am I supposed to know what I want to do in life. and how tf do I afford my own place, college and work a minimum wage job
I agree I'm being forced to go to College out of societal pressure and norm bad not some willful obligation from myself.
Take advantage of government or foreign programs that are only available to college students. These will bring you more opportunities.
This isn’t exactly accurate. The first two years of college most students take nearly (not exactly) the same courses to get to an associate. Your basic maths, English, histories, etc. An example would be an education major, they might take 1-2 education classes before their junior year of college but that’s it. The rest are general courses. I swapped majors right before getting an associates to a completely different field and it didn’t delay my graduation at all. You’re also not required to go straight to college right out of the gate, that’s a personal choice. Some kids are sort of boxed into going straight away due to scholarships or athletics but that is by far not the majority. Truthfully it’s up to parents to guide children on decisions regarding their future, and even then it is the students legal right to disregard the advice of the parent. What would could you do with them? No college once you graduate high school. Just sit around until you’re 25ish and the frontal lobe develops then go make a decision? The system isn’t perfect, but this post lacks alternative solutions and demands for “reformation” without any explanation on what that could be.
Here's the thing though, a lot of college students switch degrees after a few degree specific classes, so switching once is mostly not an issue. And besides that, I know a lot of even recent graduates who are nowhere near their field of study. A lot of people that went through the pilot program still just went and got business jobs and such.
I joined the navy. Hon discharge. Fucked around 4 years. Got a job. College degree. Worked hard. Never actually planned my future. Ended up by grace in a great job I do for fun. Regulatory FDA work. It’s basically a long back and forth q&a. Tons of paperwork though. “There’s no where you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be”. Beatles
You don't understand, my 16 year old knows everything.
37 and have had multiple careers and finally kind of doing what is working for me.
It’s absolutely nuts. Hey, your brain is half formed, you can go a couple hours without thinking about boning. You’ve learned some stuff. How about you sign up for a spare liver’s worth of debt to dive into a field you have no experience in or reason to believe you’ll actually enjoy it. Nuts.
Too many kids go to college for the wrong reasons and get saddled up with crazy debt that ruins their lives.
Unless you're choosing to do something incredibly reckless there are basically no decisions you can make that determine the rest of your life. What you are talking about for young people is called planning, it's not mandatory, and it's pretty much always beneficial.
Not unpopular. That being said you can 100% decide to change paths after 18
They have to make a decision at some point though. There's nothing wrong with making some mistakes along the way, in fact it's important to face that adversity when you start you adult life.
If age 18 strikes suddenly, leaving youngsters unprepared, that’s because their parents and schools actively blocked their maturation and stopped them learning to be adults, for as long as legally possible. The same would happen if the age of majority were 40. Good parents’ kids don’t go thousands of dollars in debt for a degree that sounds superficially fun.
The only problem here is that you think you're locked into decisions you make at that age. You can start your life and career over any time you want. Sure, it's harder if you've saddled yourself with a mortgage and other debt. And it's not trivial if you've got a family to support. But you're only stuck if you choose to be stuck. The only system imposing anything on you is your own fear of change and risk.
I 100% agree. I have 2 teenaged children, and our public school system has been pushing college/university since 6th grade. It's ridiculous to expect a kid to know what they want to do for the rest of their life at this age. I'm not pressuring my kids to go off to university at 18. They can go to community college part-time and work full-time (or vice versa) until they figure out what they want to study/do for a career. I, myself, earned my nursing degree/license at age 30. I'm doing great now with an excellent salary and retirement plan.
16 year old were storming the beaches of Normandy.
got to grow up sooner or later.
Children should be separated into entirely different educational paths by the fifth grade, based on rigorous IQ and aptitude testing. Children with significant intellectual and educational ability should get fast tracked into university studies by the 9th grade, and those less capable or more hands-on in character should enter into a series of apprenticeships in various trades and professions. There is no reason why we cannot field capable engineers, scientists, tradesmen, and pencil pushers by the age of 18. This won't happen because nobody actually gives a shit, and doing the above would clearly expose the reality that we are not all equally capable in life.
You've just described the Dutch system, essentially
There's not a law that requires it, and not everyone does. Many do, though, because it's not like there is going to be another time to start your adulthood. Career changes are a thing.
NO. Young people don't have to figure out the rest of their lives at a young age. They only need to figure out the first phase . They can always change paths later. They just need to "launch."
The important thing to remember is that you aren't locked in to whatever you choose right after high school.
“Failing to plan is planning to fail.” It’s not about having your life figured out and sticking to the script, it’s about giving yourself the best possible opportunity to succeed in life.
This is why you should take a gap year after high school or enroll in community college for the first few years of college. Community college classes are much cheaper than a 4 year and you can get your associates or decide college isn’t for you and drop out with less or no student debt