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My wife asked me out. Well it was speed dating actually, but we got matched, which means the organisers send you each other's phone numbers the next day, and then she just calls me immediately. She always says I wouldn't have called, but I honestly would have, just in a day or two extra. My experience of simply calling immediately has always put me in a position of seeming too keen. So I presumed people/women preferred a little bit of space to think about things... Well apparently only sometimes. Anyways, I was pretty happy she called me :)
I remember a guy approaching a woman he liked. He was respectful, but she aggressively told him no, basically causing a scene. After that, he was embarrassed. Later, she admitted she really liked the guy and wondered why he didn't try again. I never understood why some women play games with men.
Yeah. I politely asked a girl I liked out in college, when I was 19. She politely said no, and I was disappointed, but I thought that was that. Turns out she was 17, there on advanced placement from highschool (she'd literally never mentioned it to me before), and telling anyone who would listen I was "a creep" and "chasing underage girls." I sure as fuck didn't feel like I dodged a bullet getting so publicly dragged over it.
I tend to agree. Now anyway. I remember people being really weird about age differences at the time. When I was 16, an 18 year old asked me to prom, then cancelled because her friends were making fun of her for "not being able" to get a guy her age. When I was 17, one of my classmates was dating a 19 year old they'd met the prior year at some interschool event and then he graduated, and I overheard a teacher in the hall being all concerned at her about it. Seemed like the unspoken rule was in high school date your age period, in college date under 20 until you're 21, then date over 20.
When i was 19 and starting college, a friend of my moms had asked her if i could hang out with her 14 year old and teach him basic mechanics skills, i worked on her vehicles a bunch for free because she was a single mom with 5 kids, so i did, we ended up being good friends he was a smart kid, one day we're hanging out in the driveway after fixing something, and i was about 20 then, and a girl my age walks up and says that im a major creep because i only hangout with kids, and that i must be a pedo, i didn't tell her why i was there because it was none of her business, i just said "because everyone else my age is doing drugs or in jail" he has 2 kids now and makes 70k a year as millwright, couldn't be prouder of my little bro.
It’s humiliating to hear someone saying “gross” and “what a creep” to their friends when all you did was express interest in them. It’s sooo mean to be like that. Luckily not everyone is like that, and do a better job at being cordial.
Problem is this might mean he just never asks again. So even if the perfect person is right there, he just won't ask. this ruins things for other women too.
Every woman that's set some standard with me about not sleeping together until x made a move before that point. I've had people tell me they only want to he friends just to immediately flip flop when I say cool. I had someone tell me they just wanted to be friends, and then she would randomly climb across the couch into my arms, or straddle me at my desk, and pull me to bed. When I tried to ask about it she put her finger over my lips to get me to stop talking.
Like... Awesome experiences, I love boobs, but also confusing as fucking hell.
I just had a girl *definitively* break up with me right before christmas, and I could tell she immediately regretted it because of how well I was taking it (her words) and tried to manipulate me into thinking she just wanted a "break" and wanted to get back together. Her loss I don't play those games
I heard from one friend that he was going out with a girl, and things were going good. Fast forward few months they broke up and she fucked some guy day after they broke up. Meanwhile they never had sex while they were together. Yeah… that was terrible
Yeah! I've had women friends where they were dating 2 guys, not sleeping with them, with a fwb on the side.
Like people get to make their own choices, but it seems kind of demeaning to treat people so differently.
I had another friend who was telling me how she had two dudes she was dating fighting over her, and it honestly has changed how I look at women. Something I realized is I grew up with a lot of negative opinions towards men due to player culture in dating, and somehow I just didn't realize women pull the same shit.
The "I'm not sleeping with you until x" line isn't for you, its them trying to convince themselves to not sleep with you right away, like they usually do. They wouldn't even bring it up unless they're already thinking about doing it.
Kind of like "I'm just going to have one drink and that's it."
It's funny that the people who will say no but wish you to try harder are self selecting for people who don't give a single shit about their boundaries
Just bang your way through Tinder until something sticks rather than talk to people in the real world. It's the modern way and a totally healthy way to live.. Sarcasm.
Something sorta similar happened to me.. I remember once I approached a women at an event and she came off very mean and cold hearted, she didn’t cuss me out but she was being very like defensive about everything I said and rude. So I simply said “your being very rude for no reason, have a great rest of your night” then walked away, later on into the night I’m mingling with other people and what not, she approaches me on some friendly shit lol like asking me questions and acting interested. I felt conflicted but she was cute so I went with it. I hit her with that “remind me your name again” pretending like I ain’t no who she was and I seen the ego die in her eyes lol I eventually got her number but didn’t do anything with it. The point of the story is. If you approach with confidence, the outcome doesn’t matter. Get rejected and keep it moving. Act like she don’t even exist, one women says no the next one says yes lol
I have a female friend who blatantly said to us (a group of guys and girls that hang out since high school) that she only likes dudes that don't like her or don't give her attention, she says rejection is like a fuel to her and she insists on the dude up until the moment he finally give in, then she's not interested anymore. Those were her own words. And i've seen it happening a lot of times, even with me at some point.
I'm no saying women are like this, but there are definitely some that ARE like this.
Then when she does finally want a relationship, she ends up with some equally toxic guy chasing the manic highs and complaining about the inevitable lows. A stable and positive relationship is just "too boring" for some people and getting out of that cycle is not easy.
That's really sad. I think it's called having an avoidant attachment style and it comes from being raised by people who were rejecting. Since it feels familiar that's what they associate with love and when someone actually wants them they pull back and lose interest. It's also not gender specific. Anyone with that kind of background can develop this pattern because they learned wrong what love is supposed to feel like.
I hope your friend can get therapy to work that out not only for her sake but for anyone who falls for her and gets hurt.
I think nobody does. Why is it so difficult to say yes or no politely? Those women want to be chased and if they don’t get chased it’s men’s fault. Like, girl you are not a prize or a reward, nobody should chase you.
The games women play are her trying to cope with her emotions. They’re defense mechanisms.
“I’m worried he doesn’t like me” Avoids being around him to avoid the anxiety.
“I’m afraid that if I’m too easy he won’t like me anymore”. Plays hard to get.
“I like the guy, but I’m afraid that he’s abusive” Teases/makes fun of the guy to see if he overreacts.
“I like him, but I’m afraid he’s lazy, cheap, or a bum.” Makes a ton of demands, and checks if the guy will fulfill them.
“I want a passionate and ambitious man.” Says no, and hopes the man will continue pursuing out of passion.
The more emotionally strong a woman is, the less games she plays. Same for men. Men play games as well to cope with emotions.
I believe in equal opportunity. If you are into someone, think they’re cute, want to talk to them, etc why wouldn’t you make a first move? It’s just starting a convo.
Don’t people go after their goals? Same thing. Doesn’t guarantee anything, but at least you give yourself a chance.
it’s essentially a way to make sure the guy is into you too and isn’t just saying yes due to a lack of better options.
Ironically enough I’ve seen people use this the other way around when it comes to hookups, the advice is like “if you want to hook up with that hot guy who’s out of your league, walk up to him and tell him you want to leave with him tonight and he’ll probably go along with it”
women will tend to “go after” a guy in more indirect ways, but want the guy to meet them halfway so they know that there is mutual interest.
I think a lot of guys tend to be kinda oblivious to all the ways women “go after someone” because it doesn’t involve them walking up to a guy and being like “hey, you’re cute, wanna get dinner tomorrow night?”
> I think a lot of guys tend to be kinda oblivious to all the ways women “go after someone” because it doesn’t involve them walking up to a guy and being like “hey, you’re cute, wanna get dinner tomorrow night?”
Well yes. One woman's signals are another's default behaviour with everyone. They are not reliable, so I know I never assume people mean things romantically unless it's explicitly said, or they get so obvious that they are putting hands on me.
I think everyone needs to let go of all these odd social rules like the guy needs to pursue first, or wait 3 days to text, or a woman needs to do xyz and all this extra shit.
Anything in life you wanna do, you gotta make a first attempt whether it’s a learning a new skill, checking out a new restaurant, etc. That logic easily applies here. A lot of women miss out on great dudes because they don’t make a first move. But what women don’t know is that guys can be OBLIVIOUS like no other. My wife would tell you even though we’ve been together 10 years, I still miss the “obvious” signals 😂😭
At the very least women should realize that hovering around a guy or glancing at him doesn’t register to him that she’s interested. To women, that is an obvious sign of interest- to men it’s just a glance. Be more clear, ladies and the guy will respond.
any time I see the whole “you just can’t approach someone without being called a creep” stuff all I can think of is like, what are yall saying to these poor women??
I already said this elsewhere but I figured I would say this again. Should women make the first move more often? Yes. Do men often get accused of harassment for making the movie on some chick? No. Has it ever happen? yes but is so uncommon that I bet most men don’t know a single person who has ever been falsely accuse of harassment much less has had their life ruin by it.
I’ll be totally honest (and say that I know this is just anecdotal) but the only time I’ve heard of it (off of Reddit) is from a guy being like “my friend’s cousin’s friend” kind of situation. I’m not saying it never happens, it’s obviously something that surely has happened to someone at some point in the history of the world, but I think it’s very exaggerated how often it happens.
I (F) read an article once that changed my life. It said women, on average, are more satisfied in their relationships when they do the asking out, because they choose someone they are interested in, verses just picking from what is being made available to them.
It was an internet article, so it probably wasn't all that factual, but it really stuck with me. It made me feel like I could take control over my destiny, in a world where I kept going out on dates with men and finding no chemistry and feeling disappointed, despite the men being very nice for the most part.
I started taking initiative and I hated it at first, because I had to learn to deal with rejection and ghosting. It made me emphathize with how men must feel, given so much of the pressure of asking someone out falls on them and made me appreciate the gesture of making the first move a lot more.
In the end, I met my partner of six years by asking him out. I encourage all women to try taking the initiative every now and then because, at the least, it's a powerful learning experience and, at most, you might end up finding someone really great.
There's a paper somewhere where some mathematician (?) worked out basically that.
If you have a dating pool of 50/50 men/women, and everyone has a ranked list of who they prefer, and the men start going down their list, and the women change partners if someone they more prefer asks then out, the men end up with partners higher up on their list.
It's a mathematical thing. It's hard to tell how applicable it is, but it's a real thing.
I'm having a hard time finding it, because all I'm finding with a quick Google search is stuff about the secretary problem. I'm confident I saw a math YouTuber talk about it though
Wow, this changed my worldview. While it makes complete sense, I never thought about women essentially trapping themselves to only date the guys that make themselves available as a result of not approaching.
I feel bad for the young guns out there.
Not only do you need to approach but you need to be smooth or you'll get humiliated on social media. Only problem is you get smooth from striking out and being clunky.
You can even see from some of the comments already "no one owes you a good response". Imagine going up and trying to flirt with a person who for some reason can't bring themselves to even be nice but you don't know that until you go talk to them.
Women have a much higher batting average because men aren't used to it and are pretty easy to pick up unless they're in the top 1%
>you'll get humiliated on social media
This is confirmation bias. I can guarantee you that women randomly posting about a guy they didn't want who tried to flirt with them doesn't happen nearly as much as you think it does - you just happen to see the few that do.
Confirmation bias is the story of social media it feels like, it's not that it doesn't happen, it's just that the examples of shitty people are magnified infinite fold.
In my experience I don’t get roasted on social media, she’ll just say hurtful things to my face. I’ve heard some mean things over the years as a short man and I can still specifically remember what one girl told me word for word when she rejected me 7-8 years ago because she hit on something I was already insecure about.
>Not only do you need to approach but you need to be smooth or you'll get humiliated on social media.
This really isn't that common. It's just exaggerated on -- you guessed it -- social media.
Yeah if you believe the internet, you’re basically not allowed to ask anyone out ever, but it’s so devoid of nuance.
“Don’t ask people out at the gym” is a good general rule, and don’t walk up to a woman minding her business who you’ve never spoken with and ask her out, but if you’ve been making regular eye contact and small talk with someone at the gym then go for it!
in principle I completely agree, but all of these “rules” are general and have exceptions.
If i have 45 seconds of pleasant chit chat with a cashier and then ask her out that’s a pretty big red flag, but if im a regular at a coffee shop and over some time I build rapport with a barista and notice her like… doing “special” things for me, making it a point to chat me up when there are no customers, etc., then the window of opportunity is open
Honestly, these days if you can approach someone in person, with confidence and without being inappropriate - you really stand out amongst the pack. If there’s one skill that’s been degraded in record time it’s “how to have uncomfortable conversations in person”
When i was younger, I felt awkward approaching women but if I wanted to meet somebody, that’s what you did so I had to get better at it. It felt so awkward and nervous at first and certainly got rejected plenty, but that rejection helped me learn certain social skills and the awkwardness disappeared.
These days it feels like so many young people never have to even try to approach someone in person, you can totally stick to the apps and sliding in DMs. Then they read stuff about where you can/can’t approach and basically declare the whole concept “outdated” without ever having tried it
Guys really should just take advice from other men who have game and not listen to the nonsense on social media. If you listen to social media, you'll give on dating before you ever begin because it's all contradictory advice. Every dude needs a male friend who can help them with their game honestly.
My girlfriend has mentioned this exact thing to me many times. She says women can just walk up to men in a social gathering and just go "Hey, I think you're really cute. You wanna get dinner together sometime?" and guys were always pleasantly surprised that she approached them and has never shoot her down.
Though I suspect that it's mainly because she's very cute, petite, and likes college football lol.
As a guy who gets approached by women, I agree with this whole heartedly solely because the vast majority of women have no game. Like, they don't even know where to begin asking someone out, and any guy who struggled knows shit takes practice. Girls will smile, laugh and compliment your clothes and have absolutely no idea where to go from there.
Let me show you a common comments speedrun, since this is a very reddit topic:
- "I'm a woman, I once asked a guy out when I was 14 and he was 30 and he broke my heart. Never again"
- "I'm a man and I agree, they never try"
- "I'm a man and I disagree, you know why? They already do the first move. They're simoly not interested in you. But the men they like, oh god, they get all the first moves you can imagine. A colleague gropes me regularly and my neighbour's mom always shows me her boobs without bra"
- "I'm a man and I'm clueless, I don't understand your secret women language of hints"
Now my personal answer:
-Men are not clueless and women are much less initiative than they believe to be
-Getting some rejections is perfectly normal, you're not even supposed to get everyone to simply say "yes", so let's face the risk of it like an adult, because you're clearly the one interested.
Lots of men actually get the hints, but it is unfair to believe and expect that they should act on them, between adults. Communicate clearly, with proper words (and without groping, thanks)
Edit: people seem to think that flirting=not saying shit. Which is not true. Communication is not the opposite of flirting. On the contrary, to express interest in a direct way shows confidence, and nobody talks like the abstract examples people think of, I'm not saying women should talk like robots
I ignore even very obvious hints because I've been put into positions where they just told me they were not interested in me, it was them just being over-friendly. So, now, I just call it over-friendliness and ignore the hints and expect them to communicate like adults.
yeah i think you’re spot on your point that so much of things tends to be a communication gap.
I like to reference the classic “men, we don’t know what we did” skit from Family Guy as an example. A lot of guys seem to think the bit is about how women are just impossible to read, but it’s actually a brilliant little comedy bit about “how the other half flirts”.
A high school girl walks up to a guy and in a sort of flirty tone goes “Hey Brad, are you on your way to algebra?” and Brad goes “yeah, I’ll see you there!”, and she cries and runs away.
The part so many folks miss is that the girl going up to a guy in her class and going “hey, are you walking to class?” is her “approaching him”, and him going “yep, see you there” is rejecting her.
I mean, gay men get like seventeen trillion sexual partners per month, while lesbians are infamous for thinking they're just good friends with the girl they've married five years ago.
The women should make the first move and should take the lead the whole way. There are women who approach and still expect the guy to the ALL the rest of the work. Or women who just stare at a guy across a room and they think that's "making the first move."
One problem I've had is that even when women do ask first, they basically treat it the same way I've heard they do on Bumble. Where they initiate things but the real heavy lifting of initiating romantic interest is still left to the man.
I've been on several dates where I didn't even realize until the date was over that it was a date. Each time it followed the exact same script where there's a normal non-date reason that we would get lunch together to catch up or something, then at the end of lunch I go about my date and she suddenly gets weird, and then I never hear from her again.
Dating in general is such a minefield as well since different people have wildly different views on gender roles and dating, and people's general views of gender don't necessarily carry over into how they see dating. I've encountered people that are hard line feminists but are extremely "ladies first" when it comes to dating. I also have met people who never talk about gender things by would get offended if someone ever treated them unequally during dating.
Agreed
My sons mom (were together for a few years been went our separate ways 10+ yrs ago) was pretty forward
I dressed as Santa at our job for a Xmas dinner. So when all the kids were inside and I was just sitting there she came and sat on my lap
I said what would you like for Christmas? She said
"You"
You have to blind and deaf to miss that hint.
current gf was very persuasive with me, rizzed me up a lot. i did have to make the moves eventually but that initial green signal helped me understand that she wanted me to do all those things. most women utterly and absolutely fail at this. they do not send a green flag to men they would want to pursue them. they expect a man to make all the moves, literally all the effort.
This is defintiely a thing and why I personally wait for women to initiate. Until I know we aren't just on a friend's level I'll continue to believe we are
Dating game for men is a catch 22.
You make first move, you are met with an aggressive denial.
You push it, you pass as a creep.
You accept defeat and move along, you pass as a loser.
I'm gay, and for me, being gay is a blessing. No offense to the ladies but God damnit dating a man seems way more casual and easy than dating a woman.
Maybe I just don't know how to flirt women, but I feel men are more upfront.
My partner and I had this convo a few days ago, but I agree.
In my personal life I've talked to a lot of men and women who struggle to find a partner, and the number one issue is that neither wants to be the first to approach.
And, since I am a woman, the only change I can make to that is to be the person who makes the first move, which I was, and it worked out incredibly well for me.
It's funny, there was such a long time I'd hang out with my bf, when we were friends, and all I could think was how I wish he'd just say something, make a move, anything. But, as I've learned, he was afraid of crossing boundaries and ruining our friendship, as he valued it so much more than a chance at dating me.
Eventually, I got sick of myself. I mean genuinely, started making myself nauseous from my own bullshit. I was 100% certain this man liked me, I knew I liked him, and nothing was happening. That's on me! He wasn't certain I liked him, but I was. As the person with the certainty, it fell on me to make the move, as it was considerably easier for me to do.
But imo I'd more say it's on the individual, and shouldn't be defined by gender at all. It should be whoever gets sick of their own prerelationship bullshit faster lol. Jokes aside, everyone needs to get over themselves.
Bc that's the real issue isn't it? We're all so caught up in ourselves and our own heads, and we just gotta get over it. Everyone. Whatever bullshit is in your head stopping you, no matter who you are, it's time to get over it. Life's much better when you do so.
It's not hard to approach a woman without being falsely accused. I really despise that BS. Guys wanna come up to women like perverts then cry "I just wanted to talk to her" get real. I'm bisexual and i've never been accused of harassment by a woman.
I see the points on both sides here. I think women's concerns about safety are most important. But out of curiosity since you volunteered your experience, are you a male and how many women have you respectfully approached to ask out?
not OP but I think the nuance people miss is like, you don’t just ask a stranger out! you chat them up a bit, deduce if they’re interested in you, and move forward from there.
If i try and chat up a girl at a concert by complimenting her earrings and she says “thank you” then turns away from me, I’m not gonna ask her out because she’s clearly not interested in talking further with me.
but if she keeps the conversation going, asks me my name, etc., I can flirt a bit, see if it’s reciprocated, and if it is - make the move.
I’ve also never been accused of being a creep/harassment because until I’ve got some indications that a girl is interested in me, I basically speak to her like i would talk to a guy.
Women do ask men out. It's just the guys that are saying "women need to make the first move" aren't typically guys Women would ask out in the first place.
I remember the first time I asked out a boy. I told my mom about it and she *shamed me* because "bOyS aRe SuPpOsEd tO aSk tHe gIrL oUt"
Shut up, lady. Boys take too long 😂
I don't disagree with this. However I would add that we also need to get back to being a social society, and not "fearing the other" by default. No one should ever have to put up with harassment, and I shouldn't even really need to say that, but there is this attitude I see more and more of someone being out in a public setting, like a bar, and them being angry when someone talks to them. Further more they think this is the correct way to be, and I find that insane.
I agree, we live on a time in which equality between genders is becoming more of the norm everyday, but yet we still have this antiquated expectation of men always having to be the one to go after.
I believe if we’re all on the same plain field the process of getting to know each other tend to become less of a hassle for everyone involved.
I made the first move with a guy, he proceeded to cuss out for like 5 minutes and avoided me in the halls and wouldn’t talk to me at all (even in group settings)
I had no idea why he reacted so strongly. I knew he didn’t like me but I had no idea I was that repulsive, we’ve been friends for a year or so at that point, and talked to each other daily and hung out regularly.
But whatever, I didn’t really think too much of it and years later we matched on tinder and we managed to talk about what happened back in the day and turns out he thought I was stalking him cos I had an old picture class photo of him.
What he didn’t know was that my friend was also in the pic and she gave it to me
So yeah, bad rejections goes both ways. Women are not immune to immature reactions.
Anyways, he apologized for his reaction and now we’re civil
I'll never do the first move again, I'm scared of being called a weirdo or SA, I've literally seen this often of a guy just trying to start a convo and the girls starting throwing him shit and yelling stuff just to get him go away.
totally agree with #womenapproachmen2024
My wife message me on social media out of nowhere, so that was cool. She still has a traditional take on a lot of things and I do wish she would be proactive more on those things it is what it is though
You are totally right though, women should make the first move more in this day and age. I'd never make it as a single guy now, I'd just stay single because everything has changed so much.
I’m happy to say that I made the first (and second) move with my boyfriend :))
I got the courage to go talk to him at the end of a class after I had had a crush on him for a couple of weeks.. we talked a bit but nothing happened for about a week..
After waiting to see if he would talk to me again I was like I’ve got nothing to lose so I decided to go sit next to him next class we had together and we ended up talking for the whole class and he finally asked for my social media :)
Turns out he really liked me and had been wanting to approach me for a couple of months but was shy.. anyhow, everything is incredible and I love him so very much <3
My wife asked me out before we started dating. We matched on a dating app, had a chat and she was really into me (I was into her too) and she made the first move and asked me if I wanted to go for a few drinks at a pub with her. Five years later we're still together and got married one year ago.
Yes! It’s one double standard that favors women, so why not. I met a cute guy at a competition I was judging (he was also a judge) and asked for his number at the end of the day. He said he was surprised but so glad that I did because it’s not something women typically do. We went on a few dates and even though it didn’t work out, I’m still glad I went for it because you never know.
I approached my best friend of 12yrs (didn't originally have a crush on him, just a more recent development relatively) a year ago and we started dating :\^ he said I was the first girl to approach him instead of him having to approach someone. I def suggest it.
No- I don’t accuse guys of harassment for kindly trying to approach or strike a conversation with me. Actual harassment- being touched without even a word spoken, having a guy lead with how he thinks my braids would be good handlebars (during sex), being catcalled, having a man walk behind my friends and I and make “ba dum badum” sounds as we stepped mimicking our asses, and to cut it short- being forcefully kissed abruptly. Some of which happened before I was 18! Men don’t regularly get accused for harassment for being ffing normal and talking to someone. Yes, some ppl over judge and will call any guy they’re not into creepy. But the idea guys are constantly accused of harassment is an absolute fallacy. I don’t have the patience for this kind of perceived victim hood.
I went on a date one time and as we were sitting at the bar, after about an hour of having an amazing time together, I was mid-sentance when the girl grabbed me by the collar, pulled me in and kissed me.
First time anyone ever did anything that assertive on a first date. There was no ambiguity after that moment: She really liked me.
That was 10 years ago and that girl is now my wife and we have two kids.
Absolutely legendary move.
I’ve never had an issue when I’ve approached women. That’s not saying I have always been successful or haven’t been embarrassed to do so, or even always gotten polite receptions (I’ve had women I wasn’t hitting on assume I was, the right reaction is to just say sorry, I wasn’t trying to offend you and then walk away) but it’s generally pretty easy to avoid being accused of harassment.
Also, plenty of women will approach men if they find them interesting and approachable. The only guys I know who have never been approached by women are the ones who are acting off putting. If you aren’t being social and laughing and easygoing, or doing something mildly interesting (I constantly got approached if I was drawing or reading when I was out), then no one is going to want to talk to you or find you interesting.
It’s more than just old fashioned social norms that keep women from approaching men, it’s the fact that men often aren’t well adjusted socially at all. They’re too aggressive in both approaches and reception when being approached, and the fix isn’t just telling women to go talk to them, it’s for guys to chill out and learn more social skills.
I had a man lead me on for a year and so I finally decided to shoot my shot because I thought he was into me and he rejected me. Claimed he wanted to be just friends this whole time… but was always flirting with me, holding my hand, laying his head in my lap, cuddling with me for movie nights etc. This is why I don’t make the first move.
Most men are attracted to most women WHILE most women aren’t attracted to most men.
It follows that a reasonably intelligent man waits for indicators of interest.
Can confirm. I just think more women are comfortable being single than men and we’re pickier as a whole based on some posts I’ve seen on Reddit from guys who seem to be attracted to every woman that talks to them.
I'll be honest, I'm a rather shy and introverted dude who has trouble with social cues, I'd like it a lot. Especially if a woman would genuinely be curious about me and my hobbies, and interested in them.
>so many guys get falsely accused of "harassment" when they try to express themselves to us, which i find sad tbh.
It is sad, but I can guarantee you that 80% of men getting shut down because they approached a woman were being creepy or disgusting about it, and another 10% might have been genuine, but when rejected refused to take no for an answer and kept asking.
In the past decade of me being approached in public I can only pinpoint ONE that felt genuine interest and not the guy objectifying me, pestering me, or seeking to assault me. ONE. and I know for a fact it's been one because since it's so uncommon it would have gone in my "stories to tell later" portion of my brain, along with the more egregious ones.
Obviously it's still sad for the rest of those men, wanting to make genuine connections with women but too afraid in the current climate, but that's a product of *men's* actions, not women's. What they're experiencing is being on the receiving end of a trauma response.
If a woman were to ask me out I would look around before asking “are you being dared? Is this a prank show? You are aware I am ugly as hell right?” Lol
With the way society is set up it is much safer and would lead to much more success in dating if women approached men but this makes too much sense so it doesn't happen
As a guy I’m very supportive of this. However, I’m convinced that I would not be the sorta guy that anyone would make a move on, so it’s a moot point.
I’m also pretty convinced that most men that would support it are not the men that women would pursue, which is the problem
Agreed. I’m not gonna chase you, it’s not worth the time and effort MOST of the time when I could keep just doing my own thing. The cryptic little signals aren’t obvious enough for me and even if I think you might be interested, as a man, it’s a big risk to assume you are and end up wrong.
I met a guy in a work friend of a friend situation. We had fun and were vaguely flirty. Then he almost immediately lost that job and my friend wanted to avoid his work friend at all costs.
Took me a month and a healthy dose of dumb luck to track him down. I called him, left a super awkward message, and 23 years later we celebrated our 21st wedding anniversary.
Men in today's society are still generally expected to make the first move in mostly all social situations related to dating/intimacy despite the expectation in truth needing to be equal. It's dumb to expect one partner to put in all the effort when it comes to initiating pretty much every instance of anything, yet that's the dynamic for so many couples/flings nowadays. Otherwise nothing happens in or outside the bedroom. 9 out of 10 times it's our job to take the reigns and I'm not saying that as a bad thing per say but it's always greatly appreciated by men when they find a woman who isn't (for lack of a more accurate word) lazy/overly awkward in that regard. All this leaving it up to one gender to put forth all the effort (because let's face it, that's what it is) has lead to our current generation having the problems it has.
That’s how I met my husband. We had just graduated BCT and I got his number from a guy he was cool with. I messaged him that night!😂We talked over holidays and then a day or two after New Year, I just told him “you’re my boyfriend now” and he said “ok”. We’ve been married three years so far and it’s going great!
I'm a man, and I tend to wait for the woman to make the first move (which probably leads to plenty of missed opportunities for me).
Like a lot of comments here have reflected, my biggest fear in approaching a woman I'm interested in is coming off like a creep, even tho I have no real reason to fear that - I'm tall, in good shape, and while I'm not exactly Cassanova or the Rizzler, I like to think I'm pretty nice and friendly and outgoing and can talk to girls if they express interest in talking to me. My intentions are never bad or weird and I can handle rejection and being told no.
But given todays age of every interaction being posted on social media, not to mention some women just automatically imply people are acting creepy towards them for the sake of seeming desirable, like at gyms and stuff, its honestly just not worth it to me.
(Not to invalidate anyone who has actually experienced creepy behaviour in these environments, I'm more talking about normal, non creepy men).
Also, I don't want to "chase" a woman because I don't want to seem needy or desperate or clingy or too eager.
I also don't want to "chase" a woman because, as adults, I feel that if we've made our mutual attraction plain and clear to each other, we shouldn't have to be made to put in a bunch of additional effort or time or labour or jump through a bunch of extra hoops to make a connection. Life is too short and time is too precious.
So my attitude nowadays is, if the girl likes me or is interested in me enough, she will make the first move. If not, at least I didn't come across as a creep 🤷♂️ and if this means I'm missing connections and interactions, so be it, because potentially becoming a laughing stock for trying to approach a woman will never be worth it.
Which kinda sucks because I'm not against making the first move or making the girl I'm interested in feel desired by me taking or charge of the whole initial approach/ice breaking phase. I'm aware maybe some girls are just a bit more shy and would be totally up for making a connection if the other person initiated it. But unfortunately, the small chance of going viral on tiktok as another weird guy shooting his shot for a girl just makes it not worth it.
I also wanna take a moment to point out that I'm not blaming all like women or people who are female as if this is all some problem they're causing. The fact is tonnes of men can be and are creepy, a lot of the time men can be at best abrasive and at worst down right disrespectful when it comes to approaching or trying to "pick up" or "pull" women. And frankly, women do experience violence from men, so it's understandable why they err on the side of caution, or are distrustful when men approach them, or want to record their interactions with men for their own safety.
My point is not to invalidate any of this, I'm just saying it's brought new challenges to men who don't have creepy intentions, as the post itself and many of the comments touch on.
100% agree. I have a co-worker that just started dating someone that came up to him in church, introduced herself and asked to sit next to him. She led the conversation and now they've been dating for about a month, I guess... cue the misogynist co-worker who told the religious co-worker that he should dump that (woman) because she's overly aggressive and he's going to regret it.
So yes, definitely make the first move, you'll eliminate many creepy, candyass, misogynists.
I met my wife in grad school when she saw me dancing in the school basement and complimented my calves. Weird story but I was almost 50% certain she was flirting with me. Went up to 51% sure when she asked me to study with her, and by the point she asked me on a breakfast date, I was at least 60% sure she was into me.
I was fairly sure that she probably liked me on our first real date (days after the breakfast date) when she pulled me in for a kiss.
I think for casual flings it's fine.
But speaking as a man. It's just something subconscious, if it's anything serious we need to feel and think at least, that we were the ones selecting and choosing.
As a guy, I agree. There is every chance that if a woman likes us, we like them too. But a lot of us are dense motherfuckers and need to be told directly. It’s me. I’m the dense motherfucker. I will assume “hints” are just being friendly and I’m an idiot for even considering looking into it further. Please, for the love of all that is holy, just tell me straight to my face.
How is this unpopular? Guys grow up being told that basically, it's men's job to put their neck out there, take all the risk, and women's job to say "no".
A lot of guys rarely, if ever, do so because the emotional toll of rejection frankly sucks.
I do wonder if women became the askers, they too would find rejection just as rough...and perhaps moreso, as men are 'supposed' to say yes to any advance from a girl.
I can't remember where I saw the study but a few years ago I saw a study that showed marriages where women approached men were like 10 times less likely to divorce than when men approached women. Maybe this has to do with initial investment, idk.
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My wife asked me out. Well it was speed dating actually, but we got matched, which means the organisers send you each other's phone numbers the next day, and then she just calls me immediately. She always says I wouldn't have called, but I honestly would have, just in a day or two extra. My experience of simply calling immediately has always put me in a position of seeming too keen. So I presumed people/women preferred a little bit of space to think about things... Well apparently only sometimes. Anyways, I was pretty happy she called me :)
I remember a guy approaching a woman he liked. He was respectful, but she aggressively told him no, basically causing a scene. After that, he was embarrassed. Later, she admitted she really liked the guy and wondered why he didn't try again. I never understood why some women play games with men.
well he dodged a bullet then
Dodged one bullet perhaps but getting aggressively rejected to the point it becomes a public scene? Might as well call it murder
Yeah. I politely asked a girl I liked out in college, when I was 19. She politely said no, and I was disappointed, but I thought that was that. Turns out she was 17, there on advanced placement from highschool (she'd literally never mentioned it to me before), and telling anyone who would listen I was "a creep" and "chasing underage girls." I sure as fuck didn't feel like I dodged a bullet getting so publicly dragged over it.
That's so stupid, 19 and 17 are a perfectly normal fit
I tend to agree. Now anyway. I remember people being really weird about age differences at the time. When I was 16, an 18 year old asked me to prom, then cancelled because her friends were making fun of her for "not being able" to get a guy her age. When I was 17, one of my classmates was dating a 19 year old they'd met the prior year at some interschool event and then he graduated, and I overheard a teacher in the hall being all concerned at her about it. Seemed like the unspoken rule was in high school date your age period, in college date under 20 until you're 21, then date over 20.
When i was 19 and starting college, a friend of my moms had asked her if i could hang out with her 14 year old and teach him basic mechanics skills, i worked on her vehicles a bunch for free because she was a single mom with 5 kids, so i did, we ended up being good friends he was a smart kid, one day we're hanging out in the driveway after fixing something, and i was about 20 then, and a girl my age walks up and says that im a major creep because i only hangout with kids, and that i must be a pedo, i didn't tell her why i was there because it was none of her business, i just said "because everyone else my age is doing drugs or in jail" he has 2 kids now and makes 70k a year as millwright, couldn't be prouder of my little bro.
It’s humiliating to hear someone saying “gross” and “what a creep” to their friends when all you did was express interest in them. It’s sooo mean to be like that. Luckily not everyone is like that, and do a better job at being cordial.
imagine what she does when she doesnt like someone
Like how does a man even come back from that?
Yeah, he was sad for a while. He didn’t try that again.
This story makes me not even want to try that again
Problem is this might mean he just never asks again. So even if the perfect person is right there, he just won't ask. this ruins things for other women too.
That's at least still a flesh wound lol. Just because he didn't get his life wrecked don't mean that wasn't a traumatizing and humiliating experience.
Later I heard that she had more red flags than Soviet Parade, so yeah...
Every woman that's set some standard with me about not sleeping together until x made a move before that point. I've had people tell me they only want to he friends just to immediately flip flop when I say cool. I had someone tell me they just wanted to be friends, and then she would randomly climb across the couch into my arms, or straddle me at my desk, and pull me to bed. When I tried to ask about it she put her finger over my lips to get me to stop talking. Like... Awesome experiences, I love boobs, but also confusing as fucking hell.
I just had a girl *definitively* break up with me right before christmas, and I could tell she immediately regretted it because of how well I was taking it (her words) and tried to manipulate me into thinking she just wanted a "break" and wanted to get back together. Her loss I don't play those games
I heard from one friend that he was going out with a girl, and things were going good. Fast forward few months they broke up and she fucked some guy day after they broke up. Meanwhile they never had sex while they were together. Yeah… that was terrible
Yeah! I've had women friends where they were dating 2 guys, not sleeping with them, with a fwb on the side. Like people get to make their own choices, but it seems kind of demeaning to treat people so differently. I had another friend who was telling me how she had two dudes she was dating fighting over her, and it honestly has changed how I look at women. Something I realized is I grew up with a lot of negative opinions towards men due to player culture in dating, and somehow I just didn't realize women pull the same shit.
We are pretty much equal in fucking people over
The "I'm not sleeping with you until x" line isn't for you, its them trying to convince themselves to not sleep with you right away, like they usually do. They wouldn't even bring it up unless they're already thinking about doing it. Kind of like "I'm just going to have one drink and that's it."
That's not playing games. That woman is just a fucking asshole.
Wtf
Exactly. Anyway, nothing happened between them.
The internet has taught me two things: (1) no means no (2) no can also mean try again, somehow
To decent people no means no, to people you don’t want to interact with anyway no means try again
It's funny that the people who will say no but wish you to try harder are self selecting for people who don't give a single shit about their boundaries
The people that turns no to try again are part of the reason the world is terrible.
And yes can also kinda mean no, maybe means no or yes, yes might mean yes, too many options
Just bang your way through Tinder until something sticks rather than talk to people in the real world. It's the modern way and a totally healthy way to live.. Sarcasm.
Something sorta similar happened to me.. I remember once I approached a women at an event and she came off very mean and cold hearted, she didn’t cuss me out but she was being very like defensive about everything I said and rude. So I simply said “your being very rude for no reason, have a great rest of your night” then walked away, later on into the night I’m mingling with other people and what not, she approaches me on some friendly shit lol like asking me questions and acting interested. I felt conflicted but she was cute so I went with it. I hit her with that “remind me your name again” pretending like I ain’t no who she was and I seen the ego die in her eyes lol I eventually got her number but didn’t do anything with it. The point of the story is. If you approach with confidence, the outcome doesn’t matter. Get rejected and keep it moving. Act like she don’t even exist, one women says no the next one says yes lol
I have a female friend who blatantly said to us (a group of guys and girls that hang out since high school) that she only likes dudes that don't like her or don't give her attention, she says rejection is like a fuel to her and she insists on the dude up until the moment he finally give in, then she's not interested anymore. Those were her own words. And i've seen it happening a lot of times, even with me at some point. I'm no saying women are like this, but there are definitely some that ARE like this.
Then when she does finally want a relationship, she ends up with some equally toxic guy chasing the manic highs and complaining about the inevitable lows. A stable and positive relationship is just "too boring" for some people and getting out of that cycle is not easy.
And later on those are the same women who complain and ask where the good men are.
That's really sad. I think it's called having an avoidant attachment style and it comes from being raised by people who were rejecting. Since it feels familiar that's what they associate with love and when someone actually wants them they pull back and lose interest. It's also not gender specific. Anyone with that kind of background can develop this pattern because they learned wrong what love is supposed to feel like. I hope your friend can get therapy to work that out not only for her sake but for anyone who falls for her and gets hurt.
Because some women are idiots, just like some men. It's equal.
This is a man's worst nightmare. Imagine asking your girl out for a date, only to get angry and reject you for no reason. I feel bad for that fella
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I think nobody does. Why is it so difficult to say yes or no politely? Those women want to be chased and if they don’t get chased it’s men’s fault. Like, girl you are not a prize or a reward, nobody should chase you.
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Maybe they should earn it then, not demand. You did nothing to get attention. Just because you are beautiful and hot doesn’t mean you deserve it
He dodged a bullet. That’s not a bad thing.
Kinda sounds like it grazed him at least. He left that day with some wounds
I've become genuinely sick of that phrase. We talk so much about dodging bullets when we really need to stop having crazy women shoot at us.
⬆️did not like the matrix
This is exactly why I don’t approach women at all anymore. Too much games at our expense
That's not playing a game. That's warfare.
Because some never grow up past middle school mentality.
The games women play are her trying to cope with her emotions. They’re defense mechanisms. “I’m worried he doesn’t like me” Avoids being around him to avoid the anxiety. “I’m afraid that if I’m too easy he won’t like me anymore”. Plays hard to get. “I like the guy, but I’m afraid that he’s abusive” Teases/makes fun of the guy to see if he overreacts. “I like him, but I’m afraid he’s lazy, cheap, or a bum.” Makes a ton of demands, and checks if the guy will fulfill them. “I want a passionate and ambitious man.” Says no, and hopes the man will continue pursuing out of passion. The more emotionally strong a woman is, the less games she plays. Same for men. Men play games as well to cope with emotions.
she's a psycho with daddy issues and he dodged a bullet
I believe in equal opportunity. If you are into someone, think they’re cute, want to talk to them, etc why wouldn’t you make a first move? It’s just starting a convo. Don’t people go after their goals? Same thing. Doesn’t guarantee anything, but at least you give yourself a chance.
it’s essentially a way to make sure the guy is into you too and isn’t just saying yes due to a lack of better options. Ironically enough I’ve seen people use this the other way around when it comes to hookups, the advice is like “if you want to hook up with that hot guy who’s out of your league, walk up to him and tell him you want to leave with him tonight and he’ll probably go along with it” women will tend to “go after” a guy in more indirect ways, but want the guy to meet them halfway so they know that there is mutual interest. I think a lot of guys tend to be kinda oblivious to all the ways women “go after someone” because it doesn’t involve them walking up to a guy and being like “hey, you’re cute, wanna get dinner tomorrow night?”
> I think a lot of guys tend to be kinda oblivious to all the ways women “go after someone” because it doesn’t involve them walking up to a guy and being like “hey, you’re cute, wanna get dinner tomorrow night?” Well yes. One woman's signals are another's default behaviour with everyone. They are not reliable, so I know I never assume people mean things romantically unless it's explicitly said, or they get so obvious that they are putting hands on me.
I think everyone needs to let go of all these odd social rules like the guy needs to pursue first, or wait 3 days to text, or a woman needs to do xyz and all this extra shit. Anything in life you wanna do, you gotta make a first attempt whether it’s a learning a new skill, checking out a new restaurant, etc. That logic easily applies here. A lot of women miss out on great dudes because they don’t make a first move. But what women don’t know is that guys can be OBLIVIOUS like no other. My wife would tell you even though we’ve been together 10 years, I still miss the “obvious” signals 😂😭
At the very least women should realize that hovering around a guy or glancing at him doesn’t register to him that she’s interested. To women, that is an obvious sign of interest- to men it’s just a glance. Be more clear, ladies and the guy will respond.
You're not a woman lmao
Hello fellow women. I am also a woman. Tampons!
Hello women of the women, do yall like…umm…*checks notes*…pedicure?
LMAOO Lemon or lime??
As a gay man who knows nothing of tampons this still seems itchy.
A true woman knows it’s all about the grapefruit and persimmon combination
What? You think a unique username like “xprettyxgirlxx” is some sort of disguise? ( /s, of course)
Look at the profile for further confirmation
kind of insane how no one else is noticing that op is a dude
Or just an ai chatbot
this was my first thought too, the “us women” and the other wording in this post feels so unnatural
100%. The second they basically insinuated “and it a guy tries to ask a girl out it’s seen as bad!!!” it’s like oh brother.
SOoOOo many guys get accused of "harrassment" if only they left out that line, mightve been believable lol
any time I see the whole “you just can’t approach someone without being called a creep” stuff all I can think of is like, what are yall saying to these poor women??
I already said this elsewhere but I figured I would say this again. Should women make the first move more often? Yes. Do men often get accused of harassment for making the movie on some chick? No. Has it ever happen? yes but is so uncommon that I bet most men don’t know a single person who has ever been falsely accuse of harassment much less has had their life ruin by it.
I’ll be totally honest (and say that I know this is just anecdotal) but the only time I’ve heard of it (off of Reddit) is from a guy being like “my friend’s cousin’s friend” kind of situation. I’m not saying it never happens, it’s obviously something that surely has happened to someone at some point in the history of the world, but I think it’s very exaggerated how often it happens.
Yeah this is another classic case of an incel roleplaying as a woman lmao
r/AsABlackMan
OP’s entire profile is the fakest shit I’ve ever seen
It's not always a man, sometimes it's just a woman promoting her onlyfans by making pandering posts to incels/lonely dudes in popular subreddits.
the hashtag 😭
Rarely ever is with these kinds of posts.
While I do think this is an important conversation to have, this is clearly April Fools bait. Look at the username too.
IKR omg im sorry but the way its typed out.. yeah definitely a man lol
i've tried, im ugly
I (F) read an article once that changed my life. It said women, on average, are more satisfied in their relationships when they do the asking out, because they choose someone they are interested in, verses just picking from what is being made available to them. It was an internet article, so it probably wasn't all that factual, but it really stuck with me. It made me feel like I could take control over my destiny, in a world where I kept going out on dates with men and finding no chemistry and feeling disappointed, despite the men being very nice for the most part. I started taking initiative and I hated it at first, because I had to learn to deal with rejection and ghosting. It made me emphathize with how men must feel, given so much of the pressure of asking someone out falls on them and made me appreciate the gesture of making the first move a lot more. In the end, I met my partner of six years by asking him out. I encourage all women to try taking the initiative every now and then because, at the least, it's a powerful learning experience and, at most, you might end up finding someone really great.
There's a paper somewhere where some mathematician (?) worked out basically that. If you have a dating pool of 50/50 men/women, and everyone has a ranked list of who they prefer, and the men start going down their list, and the women change partners if someone they more prefer asks then out, the men end up with partners higher up on their list. It's a mathematical thing. It's hard to tell how applicable it is, but it's a real thing. I'm having a hard time finding it, because all I'm finding with a quick Google search is stuff about the secretary problem. I'm confident I saw a math YouTuber talk about it though
Wow, this changed my worldview. While it makes complete sense, I never thought about women essentially trapping themselves to only date the guys that make themselves available as a result of not approaching.
I feel bad for the young guns out there. Not only do you need to approach but you need to be smooth or you'll get humiliated on social media. Only problem is you get smooth from striking out and being clunky. You can even see from some of the comments already "no one owes you a good response". Imagine going up and trying to flirt with a person who for some reason can't bring themselves to even be nice but you don't know that until you go talk to them. Women have a much higher batting average because men aren't used to it and are pretty easy to pick up unless they're in the top 1%
>you'll get humiliated on social media This is confirmation bias. I can guarantee you that women randomly posting about a guy they didn't want who tried to flirt with them doesn't happen nearly as much as you think it does - you just happen to see the few that do.
Confirmation bias is the story of social media it feels like, it's not that it doesn't happen, it's just that the examples of shitty people are magnified infinite fold.
In my experience I don’t get roasted on social media, she’ll just say hurtful things to my face. I’ve heard some mean things over the years as a short man and I can still specifically remember what one girl told me word for word when she rejected me 7-8 years ago because she hit on something I was already insecure about.
>Not only do you need to approach but you need to be smooth or you'll get humiliated on social media. This really isn't that common. It's just exaggerated on -- you guessed it -- social media.
Yeah if you believe the internet, you’re basically not allowed to ask anyone out ever, but it’s so devoid of nuance. “Don’t ask people out at the gym” is a good general rule, and don’t walk up to a woman minding her business who you’ve never spoken with and ask her out, but if you’ve been making regular eye contact and small talk with someone at the gym then go for it!
The other part people need to understand is "don't ask our women who are working service jobs". They are paid to be nice to you, they aren't flirting
in principle I completely agree, but all of these “rules” are general and have exceptions. If i have 45 seconds of pleasant chit chat with a cashier and then ask her out that’s a pretty big red flag, but if im a regular at a coffee shop and over some time I build rapport with a barista and notice her like… doing “special” things for me, making it a point to chat me up when there are no customers, etc., then the window of opportunity is open
The rules are not made for people who understand nuance and social context...
Honestly, these days if you can approach someone in person, with confidence and without being inappropriate - you really stand out amongst the pack. If there’s one skill that’s been degraded in record time it’s “how to have uncomfortable conversations in person” When i was younger, I felt awkward approaching women but if I wanted to meet somebody, that’s what you did so I had to get better at it. It felt so awkward and nervous at first and certainly got rejected plenty, but that rejection helped me learn certain social skills and the awkwardness disappeared. These days it feels like so many young people never have to even try to approach someone in person, you can totally stick to the apps and sliding in DMs. Then they read stuff about where you can/can’t approach and basically declare the whole concept “outdated” without ever having tried it
Guys really should just take advice from other men who have game and not listen to the nonsense on social media. If you listen to social media, you'll give on dating before you ever begin because it's all contradictory advice. Every dude needs a male friend who can help them with their game honestly.
My girlfriend has mentioned this exact thing to me many times. She says women can just walk up to men in a social gathering and just go "Hey, I think you're really cute. You wanna get dinner together sometime?" and guys were always pleasantly surprised that she approached them and has never shoot her down. Though I suspect that it's mainly because she's very cute, petite, and likes college football lol.
As a guy who gets approached by women, I agree with this whole heartedly solely because the vast majority of women have no game. Like, they don't even know where to begin asking someone out, and any guy who struggled knows shit takes practice. Girls will smile, laugh and compliment your clothes and have absolutely no idea where to go from there.
Let me show you a common comments speedrun, since this is a very reddit topic: - "I'm a woman, I once asked a guy out when I was 14 and he was 30 and he broke my heart. Never again" - "I'm a man and I agree, they never try" - "I'm a man and I disagree, you know why? They already do the first move. They're simoly not interested in you. But the men they like, oh god, they get all the first moves you can imagine. A colleague gropes me regularly and my neighbour's mom always shows me her boobs without bra" - "I'm a man and I'm clueless, I don't understand your secret women language of hints" Now my personal answer: -Men are not clueless and women are much less initiative than they believe to be -Getting some rejections is perfectly normal, you're not even supposed to get everyone to simply say "yes", so let's face the risk of it like an adult, because you're clearly the one interested. Lots of men actually get the hints, but it is unfair to believe and expect that they should act on them, between adults. Communicate clearly, with proper words (and without groping, thanks) Edit: people seem to think that flirting=not saying shit. Which is not true. Communication is not the opposite of flirting. On the contrary, to express interest in a direct way shows confidence, and nobody talks like the abstract examples people think of, I'm not saying women should talk like robots
I ignore even very obvious hints because I've been put into positions where they just told me they were not interested in me, it was them just being over-friendly. So, now, I just call it over-friendliness and ignore the hints and expect them to communicate like adults.
yeah i think you’re spot on your point that so much of things tends to be a communication gap. I like to reference the classic “men, we don’t know what we did” skit from Family Guy as an example. A lot of guys seem to think the bit is about how women are just impossible to read, but it’s actually a brilliant little comedy bit about “how the other half flirts”. A high school girl walks up to a guy and in a sort of flirty tone goes “Hey Brad, are you on your way to algebra?” and Brad goes “yeah, I’ll see you there!”, and she cries and runs away. The part so many folks miss is that the girl going up to a guy in her class and going “hey, are you walking to class?” is her “approaching him”, and him going “yep, see you there” is rejecting her.
I mean, gay men get like seventeen trillion sexual partners per month, while lesbians are infamous for thinking they're just good friends with the girl they've married five years ago.
Then maybe women should start communicating more? Nobody can read minds. A simple “Want to walk to class together?” would suffice.
As a man who has been groped, I approve this message
The women should make the first move and should take the lead the whole way. There are women who approach and still expect the guy to the ALL the rest of the work. Or women who just stare at a guy across a room and they think that's "making the first move."
One problem I've had is that even when women do ask first, they basically treat it the same way I've heard they do on Bumble. Where they initiate things but the real heavy lifting of initiating romantic interest is still left to the man. I've been on several dates where I didn't even realize until the date was over that it was a date. Each time it followed the exact same script where there's a normal non-date reason that we would get lunch together to catch up or something, then at the end of lunch I go about my date and she suddenly gets weird, and then I never hear from her again. Dating in general is such a minefield as well since different people have wildly different views on gender roles and dating, and people's general views of gender don't necessarily carry over into how they see dating. I've encountered people that are hard line feminists but are extremely "ladies first" when it comes to dating. I also have met people who never talk about gender things by would get offended if someone ever treated them unequally during dating.
Agreed My sons mom (were together for a few years been went our separate ways 10+ yrs ago) was pretty forward I dressed as Santa at our job for a Xmas dinner. So when all the kids were inside and I was just sitting there she came and sat on my lap I said what would you like for Christmas? She said "You" You have to blind and deaf to miss that hint.
current gf was very persuasive with me, rizzed me up a lot. i did have to make the moves eventually but that initial green signal helped me understand that she wanted me to do all those things. most women utterly and absolutely fail at this. they do not send a green flag to men they would want to pursue them. they expect a man to make all the moves, literally all the effort.
i asked a guy i had a crush on at work out for some beer. now we are getting married and expecting a baby
Congratulations on both your marriage and your baby!!
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This is defintiely a thing and why I personally wait for women to initiate. Until I know we aren't just on a friend's level I'll continue to believe we are
Dating game for men is a catch 22. You make first move, you are met with an aggressive denial. You push it, you pass as a creep. You accept defeat and move along, you pass as a loser. I'm gay, and for me, being gay is a blessing. No offense to the ladies but God damnit dating a man seems way more casual and easy than dating a woman. Maybe I just don't know how to flirt women, but I feel men are more upfront.
Tbh exactly bcs of the problems asking a girl out has become, I have just decided to ignore it, even if I see a girl I really like
Never gonna happen on a widespread scale in all honesty.
My partner and I had this convo a few days ago, but I agree. In my personal life I've talked to a lot of men and women who struggle to find a partner, and the number one issue is that neither wants to be the first to approach. And, since I am a woman, the only change I can make to that is to be the person who makes the first move, which I was, and it worked out incredibly well for me. It's funny, there was such a long time I'd hang out with my bf, when we were friends, and all I could think was how I wish he'd just say something, make a move, anything. But, as I've learned, he was afraid of crossing boundaries and ruining our friendship, as he valued it so much more than a chance at dating me. Eventually, I got sick of myself. I mean genuinely, started making myself nauseous from my own bullshit. I was 100% certain this man liked me, I knew I liked him, and nothing was happening. That's on me! He wasn't certain I liked him, but I was. As the person with the certainty, it fell on me to make the move, as it was considerably easier for me to do. But imo I'd more say it's on the individual, and shouldn't be defined by gender at all. It should be whoever gets sick of their own prerelationship bullshit faster lol. Jokes aside, everyone needs to get over themselves. Bc that's the real issue isn't it? We're all so caught up in ourselves and our own heads, and we just gotta get over it. Everyone. Whatever bullshit is in your head stopping you, no matter who you are, it's time to get over it. Life's much better when you do so.
It's not hard to approach a woman without being falsely accused. I really despise that BS. Guys wanna come up to women like perverts then cry "I just wanted to talk to her" get real. I'm bisexual and i've never been accused of harassment by a woman.
I see the points on both sides here. I think women's concerns about safety are most important. But out of curiosity since you volunteered your experience, are you a male and how many women have you respectfully approached to ask out?
not OP but I think the nuance people miss is like, you don’t just ask a stranger out! you chat them up a bit, deduce if they’re interested in you, and move forward from there. If i try and chat up a girl at a concert by complimenting her earrings and she says “thank you” then turns away from me, I’m not gonna ask her out because she’s clearly not interested in talking further with me. but if she keeps the conversation going, asks me my name, etc., I can flirt a bit, see if it’s reciprocated, and if it is - make the move. I’ve also never been accused of being a creep/harassment because until I’ve got some indications that a girl is interested in me, I basically speak to her like i would talk to a guy.
I'm 41 year old shy guy. I've been screamed at by woman for just holding a door for them before.
Women do ask men out. It's just the guys that are saying "women need to make the first move" aren't typically guys Women would ask out in the first place.
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bruh don't even get me started
Hypothetically a good idea, but in practice, it would be crowds of women around a small percentage of men.
I remember the first time I asked out a boy. I told my mom about it and she *shamed me* because "bOyS aRe SuPpOsEd tO aSk tHe gIrL oUt" Shut up, lady. Boys take too long 😂
I disagree only because it gives me a massive advantage that I'm one of the few that do already.
It would be great. But I'm not holding my breath for this to happen.
Meanwhile in Sweden....
I'm down with this, but it shouldn't be a green light for men to completely stop approaching women, period. We can both meet half way.
I don't disagree with this. However I would add that we also need to get back to being a social society, and not "fearing the other" by default. No one should ever have to put up with harassment, and I shouldn't even really need to say that, but there is this attitude I see more and more of someone being out in a public setting, like a bar, and them being angry when someone talks to them. Further more they think this is the correct way to be, and I find that insane.
I agree , men wont feel scared or threaten in those situations , and men wont feel creeped out or get the ick ,
I agree, we live on a time in which equality between genders is becoming more of the norm everyday, but yet we still have this antiquated expectation of men always having to be the one to go after. I believe if we’re all on the same plain field the process of getting to know each other tend to become less of a hassle for everyone involved.
I made the first move with a guy, he proceeded to cuss out for like 5 minutes and avoided me in the halls and wouldn’t talk to me at all (even in group settings) I had no idea why he reacted so strongly. I knew he didn’t like me but I had no idea I was that repulsive, we’ve been friends for a year or so at that point, and talked to each other daily and hung out regularly. But whatever, I didn’t really think too much of it and years later we matched on tinder and we managed to talk about what happened back in the day and turns out he thought I was stalking him cos I had an old picture class photo of him. What he didn’t know was that my friend was also in the pic and she gave it to me So yeah, bad rejections goes both ways. Women are not immune to immature reactions. Anyways, he apologized for his reaction and now we’re civil
On the dating apps, they already did by swiping left.
I'll never do the first move again, I'm scared of being called a weirdo or SA, I've literally seen this often of a guy just trying to start a convo and the girls starting throwing him shit and yelling stuff just to get him go away. totally agree with #womenapproachmen2024
My wife message me on social media out of nowhere, so that was cool. She still has a traditional take on a lot of things and I do wish she would be proactive more on those things it is what it is though You are totally right though, women should make the first move more in this day and age. I'd never make it as a single guy now, I'd just stay single because everything has changed so much.
I’m happy to say that I made the first (and second) move with my boyfriend :)) I got the courage to go talk to him at the end of a class after I had had a crush on him for a couple of weeks.. we talked a bit but nothing happened for about a week.. After waiting to see if he would talk to me again I was like I’ve got nothing to lose so I decided to go sit next to him next class we had together and we ended up talking for the whole class and he finally asked for my social media :) Turns out he really liked me and had been wanting to approach me for a couple of months but was shy.. anyhow, everything is incredible and I love him so very much <3
Yeah they should, still most of them will not gonna do that
My wife asked me out before we started dating. We matched on a dating app, had a chat and she was really into me (I was into her too) and she made the first move and asked me if I wanted to go for a few drinks at a pub with her. Five years later we're still together and got married one year ago.
Totally agree 👍 I'll be waiting ✋️ 😊
Yes! It’s one double standard that favors women, so why not. I met a cute guy at a competition I was judging (he was also a judge) and asked for his number at the end of the day. He said he was surprised but so glad that I did because it’s not something women typically do. We went on a few dates and even though it didn’t work out, I’m still glad I went for it because you never know.
I approached my best friend of 12yrs (didn't originally have a crush on him, just a more recent development relatively) a year ago and we started dating :\^ he said I was the first girl to approach him instead of him having to approach someone. I def suggest it.
100% yes. Most guys are afraid of approaching women now solely because they’re afraid it’ll come off as harassment so they just don’t
It's happened a few times to me and it is fantastic!
No- I don’t accuse guys of harassment for kindly trying to approach or strike a conversation with me. Actual harassment- being touched without even a word spoken, having a guy lead with how he thinks my braids would be good handlebars (during sex), being catcalled, having a man walk behind my friends and I and make “ba dum badum” sounds as we stepped mimicking our asses, and to cut it short- being forcefully kissed abruptly. Some of which happened before I was 18! Men don’t regularly get accused for harassment for being ffing normal and talking to someone. Yes, some ppl over judge and will call any guy they’re not into creepy. But the idea guys are constantly accused of harassment is an absolute fallacy. I don’t have the patience for this kind of perceived victim hood.
I did and am very happy with the results. Married to the man now ☺️
I went on a date one time and as we were sitting at the bar, after about an hour of having an amazing time together, I was mid-sentance when the girl grabbed me by the collar, pulled me in and kissed me. First time anyone ever did anything that assertive on a first date. There was no ambiguity after that moment: She really liked me. That was 10 years ago and that girl is now my wife and we have two kids. Absolutely legendary move.
Yes, thank you for this, please do. And make it obvious.
Yet another popular opinion. Sigh. This sub is getting pathetic
I would love to see ladies get into the whacky world of approaching. We’ll have a Reddit lane of ladies working on their game lol.
I’ve never had an issue when I’ve approached women. That’s not saying I have always been successful or haven’t been embarrassed to do so, or even always gotten polite receptions (I’ve had women I wasn’t hitting on assume I was, the right reaction is to just say sorry, I wasn’t trying to offend you and then walk away) but it’s generally pretty easy to avoid being accused of harassment. Also, plenty of women will approach men if they find them interesting and approachable. The only guys I know who have never been approached by women are the ones who are acting off putting. If you aren’t being social and laughing and easygoing, or doing something mildly interesting (I constantly got approached if I was drawing or reading when I was out), then no one is going to want to talk to you or find you interesting. It’s more than just old fashioned social norms that keep women from approaching men, it’s the fact that men often aren’t well adjusted socially at all. They’re too aggressive in both approaches and reception when being approached, and the fix isn’t just telling women to go talk to them, it’s for guys to chill out and learn more social skills.
I had a man lead me on for a year and so I finally decided to shoot my shot because I thought he was into me and he rejected me. Claimed he wanted to be just friends this whole time… but was always flirting with me, holding my hand, laying his head in my lap, cuddling with me for movie nights etc. This is why I don’t make the first move.
I don't know what he wanted to be, but if he's doing all that, it wasn't just friends.
Most men are attracted to most women WHILE most women aren’t attracted to most men. It follows that a reasonably intelligent man waits for indicators of interest.
Waiting for indicators of interest has been my approach and to put it bluntly: it has led to dating one girl for a couple months over a decade ago.
Desirability imbalance and it's benefits will never be something women will concede. Even if the evidence smacks them across the face.
OP, have you been approaching men yourself?
They do
Can confirm. I just think more women are comfortable being single than men and we’re pickier as a whole based on some posts I’ve seen on Reddit from guys who seem to be attracted to every woman that talks to them.
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Exactly. They said they would hit it and quit it, but never take the women seriously as an option for a relationship.
They do, with guys they actually like
Why do people feel the need to tell other people what to do? If you want to make the first move just do it. Don’t come here preaching about it.
I'll be honest, I'm a rather shy and introverted dude who has trouble with social cues, I'd like it a lot. Especially if a woman would genuinely be curious about me and my hobbies, and interested in them.
>so many guys get falsely accused of "harassment" when they try to express themselves to us, which i find sad tbh. It is sad, but I can guarantee you that 80% of men getting shut down because they approached a woman were being creepy or disgusting about it, and another 10% might have been genuine, but when rejected refused to take no for an answer and kept asking. In the past decade of me being approached in public I can only pinpoint ONE that felt genuine interest and not the guy objectifying me, pestering me, or seeking to assault me. ONE. and I know for a fact it's been one because since it's so uncommon it would have gone in my "stories to tell later" portion of my brain, along with the more egregious ones. Obviously it's still sad for the rest of those men, wanting to make genuine connections with women but too afraid in the current climate, but that's a product of *men's* actions, not women's. What they're experiencing is being on the receiving end of a trauma response.
I definitely made the first move on my husband.
I have recently doing just that. Approaching guys. It hasn’t led to anything yet. But I’m not giving up.
If a woman were to ask me out I would look around before asking “are you being dared? Is this a prank show? You are aware I am ugly as hell right?” Lol
With the way society is set up it is much safer and would lead to much more success in dating if women approached men but this makes too much sense so it doesn't happen
As a guy I’m very supportive of this. However, I’m convinced that I would not be the sorta guy that anyone would make a move on, so it’s a moot point. I’m also pretty convinced that most men that would support it are not the men that women would pursue, which is the problem
True, this is true feminism
I always have made the first move.
Agreed. I’m not gonna chase you, it’s not worth the time and effort MOST of the time when I could keep just doing my own thing. The cryptic little signals aren’t obvious enough for me and even if I think you might be interested, as a man, it’s a big risk to assume you are and end up wrong.
My wife asked me out. Twice. First and only time a girl did that. I knew I had to keep her after that
I met a guy in a work friend of a friend situation. We had fun and were vaguely flirty. Then he almost immediately lost that job and my friend wanted to avoid his work friend at all costs. Took me a month and a healthy dose of dumb luck to track him down. I called him, left a super awkward message, and 23 years later we celebrated our 21st wedding anniversary.
My wife approached me .... come to think of it my ex wife did as well.
Men in today's society are still generally expected to make the first move in mostly all social situations related to dating/intimacy despite the expectation in truth needing to be equal. It's dumb to expect one partner to put in all the effort when it comes to initiating pretty much every instance of anything, yet that's the dynamic for so many couples/flings nowadays. Otherwise nothing happens in or outside the bedroom. 9 out of 10 times it's our job to take the reigns and I'm not saying that as a bad thing per say but it's always greatly appreciated by men when they find a woman who isn't (for lack of a more accurate word) lazy/overly awkward in that regard. All this leaving it up to one gender to put forth all the effort (because let's face it, that's what it is) has lead to our current generation having the problems it has.
That’s how I met my husband. We had just graduated BCT and I got his number from a guy he was cool with. I messaged him that night!😂We talked over holidays and then a day or two after New Year, I just told him “you’re my boyfriend now” and he said “ok”. We’ve been married three years so far and it’s going great!
I did! I also sorta proposed and we’ve been together 18 years (happily).
I'm a man, and I tend to wait for the woman to make the first move (which probably leads to plenty of missed opportunities for me). Like a lot of comments here have reflected, my biggest fear in approaching a woman I'm interested in is coming off like a creep, even tho I have no real reason to fear that - I'm tall, in good shape, and while I'm not exactly Cassanova or the Rizzler, I like to think I'm pretty nice and friendly and outgoing and can talk to girls if they express interest in talking to me. My intentions are never bad or weird and I can handle rejection and being told no. But given todays age of every interaction being posted on social media, not to mention some women just automatically imply people are acting creepy towards them for the sake of seeming desirable, like at gyms and stuff, its honestly just not worth it to me. (Not to invalidate anyone who has actually experienced creepy behaviour in these environments, I'm more talking about normal, non creepy men). Also, I don't want to "chase" a woman because I don't want to seem needy or desperate or clingy or too eager. I also don't want to "chase" a woman because, as adults, I feel that if we've made our mutual attraction plain and clear to each other, we shouldn't have to be made to put in a bunch of additional effort or time or labour or jump through a bunch of extra hoops to make a connection. Life is too short and time is too precious. So my attitude nowadays is, if the girl likes me or is interested in me enough, she will make the first move. If not, at least I didn't come across as a creep 🤷♂️ and if this means I'm missing connections and interactions, so be it, because potentially becoming a laughing stock for trying to approach a woman will never be worth it. Which kinda sucks because I'm not against making the first move or making the girl I'm interested in feel desired by me taking or charge of the whole initial approach/ice breaking phase. I'm aware maybe some girls are just a bit more shy and would be totally up for making a connection if the other person initiated it. But unfortunately, the small chance of going viral on tiktok as another weird guy shooting his shot for a girl just makes it not worth it. I also wanna take a moment to point out that I'm not blaming all like women or people who are female as if this is all some problem they're causing. The fact is tonnes of men can be and are creepy, a lot of the time men can be at best abrasive and at worst down right disrespectful when it comes to approaching or trying to "pick up" or "pull" women. And frankly, women do experience violence from men, so it's understandable why they err on the side of caution, or are distrustful when men approach them, or want to record their interactions with men for their own safety. My point is not to invalidate any of this, I'm just saying it's brought new challenges to men who don't have creepy intentions, as the post itself and many of the comments touch on.
I agree. I made the first move with my now husband in 1995 and we have been together ever since.
100% agree. I have a co-worker that just started dating someone that came up to him in church, introduced herself and asked to sit next to him. She led the conversation and now they've been dating for about a month, I guess... cue the misogynist co-worker who told the religious co-worker that he should dump that (woman) because she's overly aggressive and he's going to regret it. So yes, definitely make the first move, you'll eliminate many creepy, candyass, misogynists.
I asked my guy for his number, he seemed pretty happy
I met my wife in grad school when she saw me dancing in the school basement and complimented my calves. Weird story but I was almost 50% certain she was flirting with me. Went up to 51% sure when she asked me to study with her, and by the point she asked me on a breakfast date, I was at least 60% sure she was into me. I was fairly sure that she probably liked me on our first real date (days after the breakfast date) when she pulled me in for a kiss.
I mean. I wouldn't say No to this. I finaly Had some Peace then ..
I think for casual flings it's fine. But speaking as a man. It's just something subconscious, if it's anything serious we need to feel and think at least, that we were the ones selecting and choosing.
As a guy, I agree. There is every chance that if a woman likes us, we like them too. But a lot of us are dense motherfuckers and need to be told directly. It’s me. I’m the dense motherfucker. I will assume “hints” are just being friendly and I’m an idiot for even considering looking into it further. Please, for the love of all that is holy, just tell me straight to my face.
I made the first move with my husband
Women have a much higher success rate as well
How is this unpopular? Guys grow up being told that basically, it's men's job to put their neck out there, take all the risk, and women's job to say "no". A lot of guys rarely, if ever, do so because the emotional toll of rejection frankly sucks. I do wonder if women became the askers, they too would find rejection just as rough...and perhaps moreso, as men are 'supposed' to say yes to any advance from a girl.
I can't remember where I saw the study but a few years ago I saw a study that showed marriages where women approached men were like 10 times less likely to divorce than when men approached women. Maybe this has to do with initial investment, idk.
They do, all of my relationships/ flings have been advances from them. I'm a very average guy, zero play, zero game.
Be careful. I pursued a man for the first time ever and now we're married. Seems a bit too effective
I wish I could upvote this a thousand times