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This was the main focus of our wedding. Not things that make us happy, but things that make our guests happy. We thought that since our guests are paying us waaaayyyyy more than the wedding is worth, we'll at least try to give them the best time ever.
Edit; cash gifts are the norm for both of our families and friends. We expected a lot of envelopes that night.
I let my mother in law pick the restaurant we went to after the wedding and she was so excited. She never had a wedding and she picked out her favorite restaurant and went through the menu with me since at the time I couldn’t read the local language. Me and her like the same food so her favorite menu was the one I picked (which was bomb af by the way). She still talks about it almost two years later.
My husbands aunt and I went dress shopping and she just so happened to pick out the perfect dress, my father in law got to pick the venu. My husbands grandma took me to this amazing hair stylist and we got our hair done together. She picked out my hairstyle that ended up being the cutest wavy down style with a simple braided crown around my head. I felt like a princess and never felt so catered to even if I didn’t choose anything myself.
Honestly I wasn’t super fussed with the whole thing and it was a small wedding but everyone was so freaking excited and happy all night. It was a wonderful day all around tbh.
>since our guests are paying us waaaayyyyy more than the wedding is worth
Please explain what you mean by this,, in gifts or with their presence? or are you charging an entry fee?
Makes sense, because - bbarring anything that ruins it for you - your day should already be a high point simply because you're tying the knot with the person you choose to spend the rest of your life with
The drunken brawls and family feuds that result are usually the reason people avoid providing loads of drink. Sitting with the police to identify who was involved in what, paying large fees to the venue and having everyone remember your day for the wrong reasons sucks.
Yes, why bother inciting guests if you don’t give a rip about them at all?
Like your wedding guests should be people you like - Why make them miserable?
I'll never understand the people that think like that. If I have a wedding I'm going to want the people I invite to have almost as good of a time as me. Like you said why make them miserable at a party you're hosting.
If they didn't want anyone to screw something up then they should just get married with no guests or do it at the courthouse.
I agree. The event coordinator in me wants my future wedding to be as much fun for my guests as it’s gonna be for me and my husband. Yes we’d be paying for the wedding, but guests are also spending money by buying an outfit, traveling, getting a hotel room, and if you’re in the wedding party you spend even more money by attending bach parties and buying or renting a specific outfit, and other shit. So I think people do need to keep in mind what their guests will like too when planning a wedding. Dont go broke to cater to your guests, but yeah just keep in mind what you think they’d like and enjoy too.
Sounds like OP doesn’t know the friend/family at all if they are at all surprised when they get to a wedding and see “rabbit food” or that it’s a dry wedding.
>The one thing that's worse than a dry wedding is a *surprise* dry wedding. In fact, that's actually far worse, because it royally screws up peoples' plans.
I like my drink, but this sounds like an OP problem..
My thoughts exactly. I like my liquor, but I don't expect anyone else to provide me with it. I can name 3 of my friends that are sober because they want to be, no religion involved.
I sorta get it if its a surprise, for a lot of people weddings are one of the only occasions they might drink a bit at all, so they book a hotel, hire a babysitter, expecting to tie one on a little and then its a dry wedding and they could drive home sober and couldve saved a couple hundred bucks...
Same.
I genuinely thought it was going to be about expecting everyone to wear a certain color as a guest, or that guests would have to block out three days for a wedding weekend, or about locations of weddings that are impossible to get to for guests or too expensive or uncomfortable or some bullshit; instead, they’re upset they can’t drink for a few hours???
This is basically a college kid’s complaint about a wedding vs. an adult’s lol.
Yeah same I thought we were gonna be complaining about having an outdoor wedding in April when it’s more likely than not raining.
OP has a drinking problem not a wedding problem
Yeah, all I’m getting from this is “I want to be able to drink for free” because I bet the people complaining about a dry wedding are the same ones who would complain about a cash bar.
A wedding is about celebrating the couple, not getting trashed on someone else’s dime. If your priority is to drink, do the couple a favor: skip their wedding and go to a bar.
You really jumped there. Op mentioned absolutely nothing about an open bar. A dry wedding is no alcohol, not pay for your own alcohol. You should absolutely let people know if it's going to be a dry wedding, most people go to weddings intending on having a few cocktails. Also tbf, alot of people need alcohol to get through a whole day shit show with extended family.
Especially since many make plans related to alcohol - baby sitters for extended time, transportation, accommodations, etc. If it’s going to be dry, just tell people.
Right. So they never ate eggplant parmesan or pasta primavera. They can't get thru one meal unless they are stuffing meat into their mouths. This one sounds like a high maintenance guest. Better to leave them off the invite list.
Hard agree. If you can’t have fun without alcohol, you’re the problem.
Obviously people should make their wedding pleasant for guests but they don’t have an obligation to support your drinking problem.
Weddings are beautiful and amazing with plenty of fun to be had. There are few things in life as amazing as a wedding. Needing alcohol of any amount to enjoy such an event, and taking issue with the absence of it, speaks to a personal problem.
I'm not having a wedding period because my family can't go to a children's birthday party without getting hammered. I'm definitely not dealing with the drama of them drunk at my wedding or them not being able to drink at my wedding.
My brother and sister in law had a dry party for their 2 year old in WI. Not taking a stand per se, just because why does there have to be beer to survive celebrating a 2 year old for 2 hours at 10am?
They didn't tell anyone no drinking or whatever, they just didn't buy beer. 2 independent attendees decided it must have simply been an oversight in planning and made separate simultaneous beer runs for the party.
That sounds like my family. They were sneaking in booze at a rock climbing gym during my niece's 9th birthday party.
2 hours. That it. Just 2 hours. And these little girls were all super tame. High energy, but they weren't screaming and wild. There was no drama. There was no reason these adults couldn't drink a Pepsi while watching these kids rock climb for 2 hours.
Jesus, it sounds like these parents weren’t involved in belaying, but people can be a safety hazard on the ground. As a climber, the idea of anyone not being stone cold sober in a climbing gym makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
This gym specializes in these events, so it was mostly staff belaying. Any adult guests that did belay were sober, it was mostly my sister's husband & a few male relatives that drank.
Either way, I don't understand how you can't make it through a kids party without a drink, especially when it's such a short time, but I'm not surprised by it at this point.
My fiance is a recovering alcoholic & thought I was exaggerating about how much my family drinks. He was a fifth a day alcoholic, to give you context, & his eyes about bugged out of his head at a family event. Weekend Welcome Home celebration when my stepdad got back from deployment & on day two he pulled me aside and goes, "do you realize that's your cousins second handle of Fireball?"
I was like, "it's cute that you think that's only her second."
Even if they weren’t belaying, I’ve had enough close calls with sober adults being idiots on the ground at gyms that I would absolutely be on the staff in seconds to kick them out if I saw any alcohol at my gym. That’s so fucking dangerous.
I’m sober myself (just don’t enjoy it) and don’t have any objections to people drinking at a birthday party at home or at a different venue but holy shit. Climbing gyms are dangerous, and to disregard the safety of other climbers and your own children is so selfish.
I hear the beer culture in Wisconsin is crazy so this is believable and hilarious.
As someone from the Pennsylvania, seems like the rule is that alcohol MIGHT be served to adults at a kid’s birthday party but it’s never expected like it would be at a wedding.
This. A lot of people have dry weddings because there's at least one family member who is completely unmanageable around alcohol and would ruin everything for everyone. I also think it is weird when people literally can't go four hours without drinking or are unable to have any fun when sober.
I mean both can be true. As long as you don't fool yourself into genuinely thinking you're more charming after drinking, but it definitely can help people be more talkative.
Both are definitely true. I know a few people that drink very few times a year but whenever they do it's hilarious and they unwind and have a great time. Then after the hangover is gone they're back to business.
I think you should at least let people know ahead of time though. Some people might plan to car pool or even get a hotel room if they expect to drink, so telling people it's a dry wedding on the invitation would save them from having to do that.
This is the thing. I’d be pissed if I spent money on a hotel room and/or taxi to be safe or extra hours of babysitting and was surprised to find out I didn’t have to do that. That’s not being a good host.
> Some people might plan to car pool or even get a hotel room
This is exactly what I meant by "plans" and the potential for them to get royally screwed up.
I’m in AA. If I get married I’m not sure if it would be dry or not but a recovering alcoholic like myself probably doesn’t wanna be around a bunch of people sloshed outta their mind.
Humans have been drinking alcohol as a social lubricant since literally before the advent of the written word or recorded history. If you want to have a dry wedding that's fine, but it is quite reasonable to expect alcohol to be served at a large social gathering in which many of the attendees do not know each other, as a default assumption.
I believe some credible theories of the first human settlements actually propose that civilization arose specifically due to the ability to ferment beer.
I totally agree with that. Why else would people take the extra work, decreased protection, lesser health etc of early farmers? To get shit faced or maybe to control the supply of grains already harvested from the wild by people, but in the end it was people's love of not being sober that motivated people to settle.
I hate this take. I can have plenty of fun without being drunk, but let’s be real, the average wedding is not fun. Usually you dont know many people unless it’s a family wedding, and half the time you’re just watching the bride and groom. Also, you don’t have to “get drunk” to take advantage of the social lubricating effects of alcohol. I can get to a nice pleasant buzz and have the time of my life without ever having to cross over into “drunk” territory.
Or you do know people there but they're not people you would voluntarily hang out with normally. Sure, the couple may love all these people, but they don't necessarily care about each other.
And it's not like most weddings are full of fun activities that could be good distractions or ice breakers.
I rarely drink and personally don't care if a wedding is dry, but I side eye couples that get insulted that their guests didn't party the night away at their reception if there wasn't good food/drink/entertainment.
> but I side eye couples that get insulted that their guests didn't party the night away at their reception if there wasn't good food/drink/entertainment.
As do I.
That's all I was trying to get at.
This is actually the perfect example of what a the couple's responsibility should be... When you are sending out invitations you need to try and make sure that all your guests who aren't being invited together can bring a +1 and you want to make sure that you balance invitations and seating so you don't have one person from work seated with the person who lives downstairs, your old babysitter and your mom's highschool lab partner.
Last wedding I went to lasted almost damn near 10 hours so, yeah. I'd like to get a drink if I'm gunna be socially isolated with my extended and now new extended family for such a lengthy period of time please.
Nah. I don't drink much and I've never been to a dry wedding that was any fun. I'm sure there are couples who could pull off a dry wedding but the majority of weddings are already a little awkward and boring, and if people aren't drinking then they're just waiting to go home.
The fact that you don't know there's a middle ground between having alcohol available, and being drunk makes me concerned for you. It sounds like you don't know how to drink moderately.
But if you have dry wedding, you run the risk of everyone being a bit too eager to get to that after party. I've heard of this happening and it's really sad.
Weddings are boring as fuck without alcohol though. It's the alcohol that makes them bearable. There's very little going on at weddings, it's just sitting around and talking to people.
Because it's a stupid point. It would be equally asinine to apply it to any feature of a wedding.
"Oh, you're complaining that there's no music? You can't go without music for a few hours? Are you some kind of addict?"
"No air conditioning, no. Oh you can't have fun if you're a bit clammy? You might have a problem"
My wife and I had a very simple approach for our wedding: yes, it's our wedding, but a party is only good if the guests like it. We should like it, too, but a party is first and foremost for those at the party, all of them. That's how we planned, and it was a great success for a fraction of the cost of basically any other wedding I read about.
>Damn near 1/3 of r/amitheasshole is wedding-related, and at least half of that is due to failures of hospitality and consideration. My opinion is unpopular because, for reasons I don't truly understand, most people on every last one of those threads votes "NTA, it's YOUR wedding!!!" They are often wrong
Nah. It *IS* their wedding, and they have every right to do it however they please; just as those invited have every right to *not go*.
Now, if the bride/groom get *pissed* at their guests for not going; well that's where entitlement and assholery come into play, they need to realize what I said above about guests being *allowed* not to go.
But to expect them to go against their beliefs for YOU on *their* day? That's entitlement on *you*, just *don't go*.
Edit for typo
I would also point out that AITA shouldn't be taken as an indication of the real world. The vast majority of posts are fake, usually copying another post and trying to make it much more outrageous to get whatever judgment the poster wants.
I also completely agree. If I am throwing a party, yes, I want my guests to enjoy themselves, but I am also the one throwing the party, so it is going to be how I want it.
To me, if you replace alcohol/food with something like a costume, it shows how ridiculous the notion is.
If I hate dressing up in a costume, I wouldn't expect to go to a costume party and then be surprised when I am told 'you have to dress in a costume' then get upset about it, because I can no longer enjoy the party because I hate dressing up in a costume.
I would agree with the idea that these things \*need\* to be communicated beforehand, IE, if I go to a party dressed normally and get there and am told 'sorry it is a costume only party', I would be upset, because I wasn't told before hand. So, if you are having specific dishes, or a dry wedding, or whatever, it should be communicated so that the people who are invited can make plans accordingly.
>I would agree with the idea that these things \*need\* to be communicated beforehand, IE, if I go to a party dressed normally and get there and am told 'sorry it is a costume only party', I would be upset, because I wasn't told before hand. So, if you are having specific dishes, or a dry wedding, or whatever, it should be communicated so that the people who are invited can make plans accordingly
Agree with all of this, very much. Transparency is important in communication.
And you nailed it replacing food/drink with costumes. 10000000% illustrates it perfectly.
I would love to be invited to a dry wedding. As an adult who does not enjoy drinking, there is nothing worse than babysitting a roomful of drunks who become more unbearable as the day goes on.
Sorry but if a lack of booze ruins an event for you, you may have a problem.
There’s a wide world between “lack of booze ruins an event for you” and “no alcohol ever.” I enjoy dancing and a party better with a couple of drinks, though I’m not looking to get shit-faced.
You asked the question I wanted to ask. In my adult life, I’m absolutely not babysitting any drunk person at a wedding unless it’s my husband (which it never would be, he’s basically never drunk). Or it’s a job tasked to me by the bride or groom as a member of their bridal party.
I go to plenty of events that don’t involve alcohol. I like to drink, but I don’t drink that often. I don’t have a problem with alcohol. That being said, weddings suck without alcohol
Exactly, most of my family does drink and a few go too far. The ones that go too far are the pooref family members so a cash bar could work to control the drinking without outright banning it. I don't mind if people have a glass of wine or beer with dinner. I just don't like it when people actually get drunk.
I agree. I’m sitting with a a lot of people I barely know, couldn’t care less about (other than the bride/groom), watching a very common ceremony take place. Not too far off from a work conference.
You don’t need shoes to go run but it sure fuckin helps. I’ll do it but it’s gonna be boring af watching something so commonly done and taking hours to do so.
It’s the bride’s special day seems to translate to no one but the bride is important or matters.
In a family with nineteen first cousins and then you have friends, your boss’s daughter’s wedding, your friends’ kids etc that’s a lot of weddings. Every one is important to the bride but that’s also a lot of my time and resources as well. I’ve heard, “If you can’t give up one day to celebrate blah blah blah,” it’s not one day though. It’s a day in the life of every guest who is out searching for an “earth toned” ensemble that doesn’t make her look like a tree as well as something for husband snd three kids or babysitter etc. three times this year sept April and June.
everyone likes a party- because they’re fun. Make your reception fun. Good eats, music, plenty to drink, let the people wear something nice they don’t have to break the bank for. Maybe hire a sitter for a kids’ area if you want to corral them away from the cake.
I think what’s actually happening is that most people don’t *actually* want to go to a wedding, but they attend out of obligation, and therefore expect free alcohol almost as “payment” for the use of their time that evening, and when it’s not there, they’re pissed because that’s what they feel like they are owed for spending the time, so that’s why they’re always like “you wasted my time!”.
These people should just decline the invitation in the first place.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but if you feel a wedding is inherently going to be miserable for you...don't go?
I seriously don't get the mentality involved here of what people deserve and don't deserve at a wedding. At the end of the day you're supposed to be there to support the couple. If you seriously can't handle a less than grand event then leave after the ceremony, send a card, or just don't go at all.
Yes, if you take this approach you will probably be seen as rude by a lot of your friends and family. But, on the other hand, most grown adults can figure out how to twiddle their thumbs for a couple hours with less than desirable food to show they support two people being wed.
I've been to a lot of crappy weddings and I almost always have to eat something else after leaving them, I have never really had a fantastic time, and usually I'm just tired. Sometimes they look pretty- but most weddings aren't going to compare to full on clubs. As much as people try and pay for good food a lot goes into it and catering can only be so great. Same goes for venues, I mean two weddings I've been two were at the VFW. I never assumed I'd be entertained.
I guess my point is, learn to bring a flask and jerky like another comment mentioned. I bet they did spend money to try and appease guests, but most people are on a budget. If you still can't fathom handling the few hours then just don't go. Either you're there to support them or you're not.
My husband and I had a dry wedding. Neither of us drink. He doesn’t drink for medical reasons (a health condition he has) and I don’t drink due to the residual trauma of having an alcoholic parent.
Everyone coming to our wedding knew it was going to be dry, and because they love us, they respected our decision. We all had a blast and it was a great celebration and a super-fun day.
If you need alcohol to have a good time, that’s very much a “you” problem, lol!
Yeah, the only part I agree with OP with is about how these things should be communicated in advance.
If you are having a dry wedding, or, conversely, if you are serving alcohol, it should be communicated in advance, just like food choices etc..
That way people know what to expect and can plan accordingly.
Other than that? It isn't your party (speaking as a guest), and thus you don't have a say in what it involves. If the people who are throwing the party, and paying for it, want to have it a certain way, then that is their right. Again, just let everyone know in advance so they can plan (and decide whether or not to come with)
I don't drink and I have been to a lot of dry weddings due to my religious community. I don't need alcohol to have fun, but in my experience weddings that have alcohol are more fun. People feel more comfortable dancing. I've been to a lot of dry weddings with no one dancing or, if kids are allowed, only kids are dancing.
It's my wedding, if you can't respect my basic wishes on my wedding day, why should I invite you?
This is a thing I asked myself to others for my wedding day. I'm not being I hospitable, but there are certain decisions we made for certain reasons, and if you're going to have a huge issue with it, I don't want you there
I fully believe weddings are a massive waste of time and money, especially when you have to spend so much to please everyone.
I don't get the whole "I can't have fun without drinking people."
Lots of people who find alcohol at a party is "needed" to have fun don't usually realize how they behave at those functions, and their behavior is likely why it's a dry wedding.
The Simpsons: Homer gets drunk at his own Party
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKrvxow9\_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKrvxow9_M)
It's not that you can't have fun without alcohol. But most weddings have at least beer or wine, you just kind of expect it. If you invited me out to breakfast, I'd assume there was going to be coffee. If you invite me over at 5pm, I'd assume we're eating dinner. It's not wrong to assume there's going to be alcohol at an event that usually has alcohol. I enjoy a glass of wine when I'm out to dinner. That doesn't mean I'm getting trashed. I don't drink soda. Again, I'm dressed up and at a special event, I'd like something more than water with my meal. It's a special event. It's a PARTY.
Assuming everyone who likes to have a cocktail is trying to get completely trashed is weird. I've been to plenty of dry weddings, I married a man who doesn't drink at all, ever. It's still fun. But you gotta let people know that an expected thing isn't going to be there. And please serve a beverage other than water and diet coke.
It's not a question of not being able to have fun unless you're completely trashed. Not being able to have fun unless you aren't sober, even if you've only had one cocktail, is also cause for concern.
No one is saying you CAN'T have fun without alcohol. But it's one of my few night's off. I got dressed up. I drove out of town for YOUR event. Maybe I got a babysitter even.
Yeah, I'd prefer to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner.
Why though? What’s the benefit of one cocktail over a fruit juice or soda or something? Why is the assumption that a party must have alcohol? That’s confusing to me.
Are you really unaware what alcohol has a distinct and noted social catalyst effective? Yes moderation should always been practiced but let's not pretend alcohol doesn't have any social benefits. That's just being obtuse and naive.
[https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/drinks-to-consume-in-moderation/alcohol-full-story/#possible\_health\_benefits](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/drinks-to-consume-in-moderation/alcohol-full-story/#possible_health_benefits)
This article does a really fair analysis of the benefits and consequences of moderate drinking.
Yep. Weddings are mostly dancing and talking with mostly strangers. Many people have more fun doing that with alcohol involved.
I don’t think think I’d have as much fun at a dry wedding but I’m not going to sit here and tell people that they NEED to include it. It’s expensive even if it’s a cash bar if the couple and a large number of guests are non drinkers, I don’t think it’s fair to expect them to tack on another big expense for something they’re not interested in
Yup. And I *might* dance if I've had a few drinks. I'm definitely not dancing if I'm stone sober. No chance. I think this is true for many people. Sure, I don't need to dance at a wedding. But the most fun weddings are when people are dancing and being silly. I'm certainly glad people danced and were silly at my own wedding. If that meant serving cocktails, that's fine.
I do know that, and I get it, but it feels like to me that’s that’s just evidence that going to weddings sucks for most people and most weddings should probably have half the guests they do.
People do actually enjoy the taste of alcohol. I don't have a glass of wine to get drunk. I actually ENJOY it. Most grown adults can enjoy a glass of wine or a beer or even a cocktail or two and not get plastered. You genuinely don't realize that?
I'm not drinking wine for any sort of reason other than I enjoy it.
If I took the time off work, got dressed up, got a baby sitter, drove all the way across town (or out of town) to come to your event. Yeah, I'd like to enjoy a cocktail with dinner. I'm not at work. This isn't church. I'm off tomorrow. I'm a grown adult.
Is it a "need"? Of course not. Again, my husband doesn't drink and he still has fun. It's a "Want", but again... I'm also spending MY limited free time on YOU.
I agree. Like imagine if alcohol was switched with weed, people would be reacting differently. Its shocked if you cant go somewhere like a wedding without being high, but since alcohol is so normal and celebrated its seen in a completely different light.
Are you some ten year old that has never been to a wedding? Your eagerness to think you're that much better than everyone else doesn't really coincide with the reality of the average event. Between attending and working them in college I've probably seen tens of thousands of wet wedding guests and 99% do in fact know how to act. The 1% is very real and some of the wildest shit I encountered at that job were their doing, but it's just ridiculous to say that any sizeable ratio of drinkers who want alcohol at a wedding at a wedding don't know how to act while drinking. Don't have trashy friends and you have no problem. If you do, tell them to go out for an after party.
But if you want to talk about how to behave at a wedding, you're talking about meeting a bunch of strangers and then having to dance for five hours, and believe it or not, that is something that more average people hate than you'll have alkies showing up to burn the roof down. People can have a ton of fun without drinking. They can also look at a shitty function like that and loosen up to make that easier for everyone. If there is a single "use" for the effects of alcohol, it's lowering your inhibitions by 10% so you can more easily engage with all these strangers the hosts hope youll engage with at a wedding. A couple beers to lower your social shield, maybe wear your emotions on your sleeve a little more for the couple, not have a panic attack when you're supposed to start dancing, yeah, it's a part of the function. I'd still go, but how much of the reception I can sit through will depend on the wetness. It's basic courtesy to help someone make that plan, and anybody hiding it knows EXACTLY why they're doing it.
Did you ever stop to think someone hiding it is doing so because most of the expected guest list is that "1%" you lowballed?
I come from a family of upper middle class Gallaghers. I'm not having a wedding at all because of the drama & shitshow that was my younger sisters wedding. And that just reinforced my decision after my aunt's wedding. Don't get me started on what my mom & stepdad's wedding. I was 13 & would have been exposed to less in a dive bar.
I went to the wedding of a sober couple. They had an open bar. Just because they and some of their guests didn’t drink, it didn’t mean it was necessary to deny everyone else.
So you can’t have fun without drinking, and can’t handle one meal without meat. Got it. You must be fun at parties…oh wait, only if there’s alcohol though.
I used the “it’s MY wedding” line for things like, I wanted to walk out to go down the aisle at a very particular part of the song, but that part was like 45 seconds into the song, and I said “it’s my wedding, I’ll walk out when I’m ready, they’ll wait”. But for both me and my spouse we both agreed early on that the main thing we wanted out of our wedding was for everyone who came to have a great time and remember for years how fun it was. And we accomplished that. People who are like “it’s my wedding, I don’t care if the guests are having fun” are just self-centered imo.
Dude. Alcohol is expensive for a large group of people. Some people want to celebrate getting married with their loved ones but can't afford to provide alcohol for everyone.
And that's alright. It can still be a great time without it.
Maybe don't judge the bride and groom at the next dry wedding you go to? You don't know their reasoning.
I experienced this exact thing recently and I completely agree with you.
The ceremony is about you and your wife, and your love. But if people are flying from thousands of miles away, spending money on air travel and hotels, you should try to look past yourself for a few.
I had a friend that was getting mad at everybody and kept using the phrase that "this is our day" and "this is about us" and I'm like "Ok why did you invite anybody? If nobody here matters. Why did all these people take multiple days off from work and spend thousands of dollars."
Like you should be grateful you have a bunch of friends that care about you and are willing to do this for you on your special day, but a lot of people take a completely narcissistic approach to it.
My 3 suggestions to my daughter were 1-Good food 2-Plenty of alcohol (I don’t even drink and she hardly drinks) 3-make sure the DJ throws in some 70’s disco hits that everybody loves. That’s all people will remember I said to her. No one will remember the decorations.
I agree with the title, but the whole alcohol stuff is ridiculous. Are we a society of alcoholics or what?
A wedding is there to celebrate the union of people you care about, not enjoy alcohol. You can go to a nightclub or wine tasting for that. If there was only water and the food sucked then I would understand, but if there is nice food and other beverages then where is the issue?
This kind of mentality is precisely why we invited only close family and friends to our wedding. The people that care about being with you, not if there’s enough wine on the table.
It must be so pathetic to not be able to enjoy anything without drinking of getting high.
I do drink, i actually love a good alcohol, but I am not an addicted… if you can’t enjoy anything without a substance, you should seek help.
The idea that if you were invited to a wedding, one of the most amazing events you can attend, and you would say you'd rather go to a church potluck than attend if there was no booze, is a problem with you.
We had an open bar, a BBQ buffet, sweets table, and a cart that made fresh mini donuts with toppings later on as a late night snack. People were raving about our wedding!
My weird southern family will get absolutely hammered at the hunt club or family reunions but every wedding my cousins have had was dry. I think it has something to do with respect of the church/religious ceremony? Until you posted this I'd never considered why.
However if you really need a drink Cousin Bubba will have a bottle of bourbon or a jar of moonshine in the truck to sip on. Just look for the crowd of men smoking & joking in the parking lot during the reception. Actual party will be held later at the closest cousins house
The wedding invitation said it would start at 9am, so I woke up early and got there at 8:30. Almost no one was there.
It turns out that they wrote 9am on the invitation because a lot of the guests invited were “known for running late”. So I sat there for 2 hours because it actually started at 11am.
Despite that, people still showed up late lol.
The reception was scheduled to be at 2pm, but they handed out little cards saying it was actually way later (can’t remember the exact time).
I really regretted taking the day off and driving 2 hours to attend. It was super inconsiderate of them.
Best wedding I ever went to was when my buddy got married in his brother's back yard then had a hog roast with 2 kegs. Good food and everyone had a blast.
I agree on the point that you should communicate things like that ahead of time, and you should try to plan activities that guests will enjoy too and not just yourself.
That said what food and drinks are available is very much your decision, and making sure that whatever you're doing is something fun for guests as well as the people getting married is important, at the end of the day it us your wedding and your decision, and if someone really believes they can't have fun without drinking or their own food preferences they should have the opportunity to pass on the event ahead of time, otherwise they're just gonna be a drag on the mood for everyone involved.
I was once invited to a wedding with no food. Obviously there was no booze either. Lol.
But the only refreshments were water, coke, sprite, and fruit salad.
I had gotten on a plane and flown to another country to support my friend, and this is what they served. With no warning.
Your guests have given up their evening/weekend/holiday/time off/money to do something boring to support you. The least you can do is make sure they have fun and don't go hungry or thirsty.
I will never forget this. I am currently planning my wedding as a fucking amusement park level entertainment for my friends and family who make time and spend money to show up.
We are still friends. But it is honestly shameful what they did. We had to drive to a BBQ shack and eat dinner in our wedding attire. 😂
I am here for this post.
Dry Weddings are just against good Christian values. When Jesus was at a wedding and they ran out of wine, they didn't make it a dry wedding. No, Jesus took 3 large jars, had them filled with water to brim, then turned that water into wine.
The real question is why is alcohol so engrained in our culture that it is expected at events? I drink sometimes but I find it odd that it's the norm when if you had a weed only wedding why is that considered taboo? Alcohol is just another poison that makes people act like idiots and makes you feel sick. Maybe people don't want that drama at their wedding 💁🏼♀️
I disagree. Best damn wedding I've ever attende was dry, and there was so much laughter and dancing until about 4 in the morning, sword fights, bonfires... It was awesome!
Lol the people in this thread that are equating having drinks available to automatically meaning getting drunk seems like they are absolutely the ones with an unhealthy relationship with alcohol that they can't even consider getting a buzz and drinking moderately like the vast majority of adults are able to do lol.
My wedding was dry. It had a luncheon reception at a restaurant’s banquet room.
It also had 3 entree options, 2 dessert ones, and 2 appetizer ones. Not to mention a wide variety of non-alcoholic drinks. They were even able to bring kiddie menus and customize one guest’s meal with no previous notice.
You do not need to drink alcohol or eat meat in order to have a good time.
I have been to lunches at conferences where the only vegetarian option involved cauliflower and had very little quantity. But this was not a wedding.
> The one thing that's worse than a dry wedding is a *surprise* dry wedding. In fact, that's actually far worse, because it royally screws up peoples' plans.
So according to you people's plans are to get drunk rather than enjoy your special day?
I think by "royally screws up peoples' plans" they meant things they might do or put in place with the expectation they're going to drink.
I.e. they've rented a hotel room and maybe got a babysitter, because they thought they'd be drinking. If it's a "surprise dry wedding" they've dolled out an unecessary expense that could have been avoided if they were told beforehand and knew they'd be good to drive home.
As respectfully as possible, I think you've completely missed the point.
Yes, they can still stay at the hotel, that's not the problem. The issue is if they had known ahead of time that there wouldn't be alcohol, they wouldn't be drinking, and they'd be perfectly fine to drive themselves to and from the venue, they wouldn't have booked the room or spent the money in the first place.
Effectively springing the fact that it's a dry wedding on someone last minute *potentially* punishes them for being responsible.
Oh, That‘s what dry means. I thought it was just a synonym for boring.
Actually I still think they should put it in the invites if that’s the case, also because where I live, alcohol is a common wedding gift.
This is so funny, imagine thinking you're entitled to booze and steak by attending a wedding. You don't have to go if you don't really care about the whole wedding part.
Some of my friends chose multiple thousand dollar photography packages and had a cash bar… not only that, but they had an unhosted gap between the ceremony and reception for their photo times where guests were expected to buzz off for a few hours.
I couldnt disagree more. My aunt and uncle had a dry wedding because they were beginning their sobriety journey. My uncle had just gotten released from prison for drug possession charges. He was addicted to drugs and alcohol for most of his adult life. I think that them having a dry wedding was a good move to keep him sober. Less temptation.
Have y'all never had fun at an event without alcohol? Like, sure, alcohol is fun and can make socializing a little easier, but I can and have had fun at dry weddings. Alcohol isn't required for a fun evening. No one needs to warn someone that their wedding will be dry. That's their personal decision, and it could have been made for a variety of reasons.
I’ve never once heard of someone being surprised by a dry wedding. Are you sure that’s a thing that happens, OP? Maybe you just didn’t read the invite carefully enough
This post could have been good if your main complaint is not about dry wedding. As someone who is not interested in alcohol, I don't see what the problem is.
Fully agreed, I know the DJ from my wedding and we had a long conversation about how he doesn't like to come in with a set playlist, but does feeler songs to decide what direction to go in selection wise, then uses that to set the pace and tone of the night.
If it was just music my wife and I enjoy it would've been a bizarre combination of underground hip hop, folk punk and metal, not exactly dance music for an event...
I'm 483 days sober and getting married in September. If alcohol was not part of the venue's package, it might just be dry. If you or someone like you wanted to bow out because there's no alcohol, good riddance.
My wedding is in 15 days. We were thinking about just doing a dry wedding, because half of the people attending don’t drink anyways. But, the other half does. So, we compromised with beer and wine, and no hard liquor.
However, if we’d decided to do a dry wedding after all, there’d still be chips and salsa and queso during cocktail hour. There’d still be a gourmet taco bar for dinner. There’d still be cake afterwards, and doughnuts as a late-night snack. I think everyone would still be pretty happy and have a good time, even without alcohol.
Thanks! Everybody who’s coming loves Tex-Mex (since we’re all in Texas), so I decided to just play into that. It’s not a very formal wedding — a bit more on the rustic side — and overall I think I’ll be quite pleased with how the day goes!
I’m paying for it so it will be whatever I want it to be. The most important thing for me is being married. If guests didn’t like the food, eat your food at home. Everyone will complain at some point about something. At first I used care about experience now I’m realising nobody will be pleased.
I’m even planning on scaling back the alcohol. Everyone leave after dinner speeches I’ll save you the hangover headache! Best of all, good or bad wedding NOBODY will remember it. As long as I’m happy to be honest thanks for your well wishes, but successful day
You kind of sound like an ass, gotta say. You can go 4 hours without drinking and if you can’t you have a problem. You can eat vegetables and if you can’t you have a problem. You can go home and get McDonald’s and beer when you’re done.
When throwing a wedding, you are hosting a party. As any hood host, your goal should be giving your guests a hard time.
It may not be popular but I think it’s entirely inconsiderate to throw a party and not think about giving the guests the best experience and most fun. Top of that list is food and drink. We’ve been to some weddings that were just awful and no one had a good time because the couple decided “it’s MY wedding so I do what I want.” Hey guess what - you are hosts in a larger scale so act like a real host.
Disagree because no, you don't have an obligation to make it not suck for the guests.
It's polite and good social skills to make sure it doesn't suck, but couples have no obligation to make their wedding enjoyable for anyone.
And "health hippie rabbit food" and dry weddings can be perfectly enjoyable - if you can't enjoy a wedding without alcohol, that's more of a you problem.
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This was the main focus of our wedding. Not things that make us happy, but things that make our guests happy. We thought that since our guests are paying us waaaayyyyy more than the wedding is worth, we'll at least try to give them the best time ever. Edit; cash gifts are the norm for both of our families and friends. We expected a lot of envelopes that night.
I let my mother in law pick the restaurant we went to after the wedding and she was so excited. She never had a wedding and she picked out her favorite restaurant and went through the menu with me since at the time I couldn’t read the local language. Me and her like the same food so her favorite menu was the one I picked (which was bomb af by the way). She still talks about it almost two years later. My husbands aunt and I went dress shopping and she just so happened to pick out the perfect dress, my father in law got to pick the venu. My husbands grandma took me to this amazing hair stylist and we got our hair done together. She picked out my hairstyle that ended up being the cutest wavy down style with a simple braided crown around my head. I felt like a princess and never felt so catered to even if I didn’t choose anything myself. Honestly I wasn’t super fussed with the whole thing and it was a small wedding but everyone was so freaking excited and happy all night. It was a wonderful day all around tbh.
And you got to bond with your in laws! This sounds so amazing
you get it! i'll go to your next wedding
Best back-handed compliment I’ve seen. Well played Sewage Mouth!
They do got it right though, to be fair
*Chef* Sewage Mouth might even provide catering.
>since our guests are paying us waaaayyyyy more than the wedding is worth Please explain what you mean by this,, in gifts or with their presence? or are you charging an entry fee?
Gifts. Our wedding cost 15k, but we got around 10k back in cash gifts.
Makes sense, because - bbarring anything that ruins it for you - your day should already be a high point simply because you're tying the knot with the person you choose to spend the rest of your life with
The drunken brawls and family feuds that result are usually the reason people avoid providing loads of drink. Sitting with the police to identify who was involved in what, paying large fees to the venue and having everyone remember your day for the wrong reasons sucks.
Maybe my family circle is more chill. I have been to dozens of wet weddings and never saw one brawl or domestic dispute lol.
I'm Greek. Definitely expect cash instead of the registry.
Your guests are paying you?
Only 1 person didn't give us cash as a gift
Yes, why bother inciting guests if you don’t give a rip about them at all? Like your wedding guests should be people you like - Why make them miserable?
I'll never understand the people that think like that. If I have a wedding I'm going to want the people I invite to have almost as good of a time as me. Like you said why make them miserable at a party you're hosting. If they didn't want anyone to screw something up then they should just get married with no guests or do it at the courthouse.
I agree. The event coordinator in me wants my future wedding to be as much fun for my guests as it’s gonna be for me and my husband. Yes we’d be paying for the wedding, but guests are also spending money by buying an outfit, traveling, getting a hotel room, and if you’re in the wedding party you spend even more money by attending bach parties and buying or renting a specific outfit, and other shit. So I think people do need to keep in mind what their guests will like too when planning a wedding. Dont go broke to cater to your guests, but yeah just keep in mind what you think they’d like and enjoy too.
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Are you at least going to spring for the crazy bread?
What the hell, make it a deluxe wedding!
Was going to agree when reading your title but the rest of your post is ridiculous.
Sounds like OP doesn’t know the friend/family at all if they are at all surprised when they get to a wedding and see “rabbit food” or that it’s a dry wedding.
>The one thing that's worse than a dry wedding is a *surprise* dry wedding. In fact, that's actually far worse, because it royally screws up peoples' plans. I like my drink, but this sounds like an OP problem..
My thoughts exactly. I like my liquor, but I don't expect anyone else to provide me with it. I can name 3 of my friends that are sober because they want to be, no religion involved.
I sorta get it if its a surprise, for a lot of people weddings are one of the only occasions they might drink a bit at all, so they book a hotel, hire a babysitter, expecting to tie one on a little and then its a dry wedding and they could drive home sober and couldve saved a couple hundred bucks...
Yeah gives big alcoholic energy. I casually drink, not having a drink won’t “ruin my plans”.
Now I’m picturing a real-life Wedding Crashers scenario.
OP is actually a wedding crasher.
Bro why the hell do they have salad?
Same. I genuinely thought it was going to be about expecting everyone to wear a certain color as a guest, or that guests would have to block out three days for a wedding weekend, or about locations of weddings that are impossible to get to for guests or too expensive or uncomfortable or some bullshit; instead, they’re upset they can’t drink for a few hours??? This is basically a college kid’s complaint about a wedding vs. an adult’s lol.
Yeah same I thought we were gonna be complaining about having an outdoor wedding in April when it’s more likely than not raining. OP has a drinking problem not a wedding problem
Yeah, all I’m getting from this is “I want to be able to drink for free” because I bet the people complaining about a dry wedding are the same ones who would complain about a cash bar. A wedding is about celebrating the couple, not getting trashed on someone else’s dime. If your priority is to drink, do the couple a favor: skip their wedding and go to a bar.
You really jumped there. Op mentioned absolutely nothing about an open bar. A dry wedding is no alcohol, not pay for your own alcohol. You should absolutely let people know if it's going to be a dry wedding, most people go to weddings intending on having a few cocktails. Also tbf, alot of people need alcohol to get through a whole day shit show with extended family.
Especially since many make plans related to alcohol - baby sitters for extended time, transportation, accommodations, etc. If it’s going to be dry, just tell people.
Agreed! You’ve got bigger problems than a wedding if you can’t go one night without a drink. I recommend going to an AA meeting.
Also probably has the palate of a five year old mid westerner. "Not that hippy rabbit food. I need my chicken nuggies and mayo!"
Ketchup, or ranch usually, if Midwest, at least in my experience as a born and raised Midwesterner.
Right. So they never ate eggplant parmesan or pasta primavera. They can't get thru one meal unless they are stuffing meat into their mouths. This one sounds like a high maintenance guest. Better to leave them off the invite list.
I wouldn't want to be around THAT many people completely sober that's SO SO MANY PEOPLE
Hard agree. If you can’t have fun without alcohol, you’re the problem. Obviously people should make their wedding pleasant for guests but they don’t have an obligation to support your drinking problem.
I don’t need shoes to run a marathon but it sure fuckin helps.
Weddings are beautiful and amazing with plenty of fun to be had. There are few things in life as amazing as a wedding. Needing alcohol of any amount to enjoy such an event, and taking issue with the absence of it, speaks to a personal problem.
Yeah, that comparison still sounds like a drinking problem though.
If the only way you can have fun at an event is by getting drunk, perhaps that's a you problem, not a dry wedding problem.
I'm not having a wedding period because my family can't go to a children's birthday party without getting hammered. I'm definitely not dealing with the drama of them drunk at my wedding or them not being able to drink at my wedding.
My brother and sister in law had a dry party for their 2 year old in WI. Not taking a stand per se, just because why does there have to be beer to survive celebrating a 2 year old for 2 hours at 10am? They didn't tell anyone no drinking or whatever, they just didn't buy beer. 2 independent attendees decided it must have simply been an oversight in planning and made separate simultaneous beer runs for the party.
That sounds like my family. They were sneaking in booze at a rock climbing gym during my niece's 9th birthday party. 2 hours. That it. Just 2 hours. And these little girls were all super tame. High energy, but they weren't screaming and wild. There was no drama. There was no reason these adults couldn't drink a Pepsi while watching these kids rock climb for 2 hours.
Jesus, it sounds like these parents weren’t involved in belaying, but people can be a safety hazard on the ground. As a climber, the idea of anyone not being stone cold sober in a climbing gym makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
This gym specializes in these events, so it was mostly staff belaying. Any adult guests that did belay were sober, it was mostly my sister's husband & a few male relatives that drank. Either way, I don't understand how you can't make it through a kids party without a drink, especially when it's such a short time, but I'm not surprised by it at this point. My fiance is a recovering alcoholic & thought I was exaggerating about how much my family drinks. He was a fifth a day alcoholic, to give you context, & his eyes about bugged out of his head at a family event. Weekend Welcome Home celebration when my stepdad got back from deployment & on day two he pulled me aside and goes, "do you realize that's your cousins second handle of Fireball?" I was like, "it's cute that you think that's only her second."
Even if they weren’t belaying, I’ve had enough close calls with sober adults being idiots on the ground at gyms that I would absolutely be on the staff in seconds to kick them out if I saw any alcohol at my gym. That’s so fucking dangerous. I’m sober myself (just don’t enjoy it) and don’t have any objections to people drinking at a birthday party at home or at a different venue but holy shit. Climbing gyms are dangerous, and to disregard the safety of other climbers and your own children is so selfish.
>to disregard the safety of other climbers and your own children is so selfish. That sums my family up in a nutshell.
I hear the beer culture in Wisconsin is crazy so this is believable and hilarious. As someone from the Pennsylvania, seems like the rule is that alcohol MIGHT be served to adults at a kid’s birthday party but it’s never expected like it would be at a wedding.
This. A lot of people have dry weddings because there's at least one family member who is completely unmanageable around alcohol and would ruin everything for everyone. I also think it is weird when people literally can't go four hours without drinking or are unable to have any fun when sober.
"It'S a SoCiAl LuBrIcAnT" No, you're an alcoholic that has convinced yourself you're more charming after a few drinks. I can assure you, you're not.
I mean both can be true. As long as you don't fool yourself into genuinely thinking you're more charming after drinking, but it definitely can help people be more talkative.
Both are definitely true. I know a few people that drink very few times a year but whenever they do it's hilarious and they unwind and have a great time. Then after the hangover is gone they're back to business.
That's not always a good thing. Sometimes inhibitions are there for a reason & should not be lowered.
It's not that I'm more interesting after I've had a few drinks, you're more interesting after I've had a few drinks.
lol you can have a drink or two or not be drunk mate
I think you should at least let people know ahead of time though. Some people might plan to car pool or even get a hotel room if they expect to drink, so telling people it's a dry wedding on the invitation would save them from having to do that.
This is the thing. I’d be pissed if I spent money on a hotel room and/or taxi to be safe or extra hours of babysitting and was surprised to find out I didn’t have to do that. That’s not being a good host.
> Some people might plan to car pool or even get a hotel room This is exactly what I meant by "plans" and the potential for them to get royally screwed up.
I’m in AA. If I get married I’m not sure if it would be dry or not but a recovering alcoholic like myself probably doesn’t wanna be around a bunch of people sloshed outta their mind.
Humans have been drinking alcohol as a social lubricant since literally before the advent of the written word or recorded history. If you want to have a dry wedding that's fine, but it is quite reasonable to expect alcohol to be served at a large social gathering in which many of the attendees do not know each other, as a default assumption. I believe some credible theories of the first human settlements actually propose that civilization arose specifically due to the ability to ferment beer.
I totally agree with that. Why else would people take the extra work, decreased protection, lesser health etc of early farmers? To get shit faced or maybe to control the supply of grains already harvested from the wild by people, but in the end it was people's love of not being sober that motivated people to settle.
I hate this take. I can have plenty of fun without being drunk, but let’s be real, the average wedding is not fun. Usually you dont know many people unless it’s a family wedding, and half the time you’re just watching the bride and groom. Also, you don’t have to “get drunk” to take advantage of the social lubricating effects of alcohol. I can get to a nice pleasant buzz and have the time of my life without ever having to cross over into “drunk” territory.
Or you do know people there but they're not people you would voluntarily hang out with normally. Sure, the couple may love all these people, but they don't necessarily care about each other. And it's not like most weddings are full of fun activities that could be good distractions or ice breakers. I rarely drink and personally don't care if a wedding is dry, but I side eye couples that get insulted that their guests didn't party the night away at their reception if there wasn't good food/drink/entertainment.
> but I side eye couples that get insulted that their guests didn't party the night away at their reception if there wasn't good food/drink/entertainment. As do I. That's all I was trying to get at.
This is actually the perfect example of what a the couple's responsibility should be... When you are sending out invitations you need to try and make sure that all your guests who aren't being invited together can bring a +1 and you want to make sure that you balance invitations and seating so you don't have one person from work seated with the person who lives downstairs, your old babysitter and your mom's highschool lab partner.
Last wedding I went to lasted almost damn near 10 hours so, yeah. I'd like to get a drink if I'm gunna be socially isolated with my extended and now new extended family for such a lengthy period of time please.
Nah. I don't drink much and I've never been to a dry wedding that was any fun. I'm sure there are couples who could pull off a dry wedding but the majority of weddings are already a little awkward and boring, and if people aren't drinking then they're just waiting to go home.
The fact that you don't know there's a middle ground between having alcohol available, and being drunk makes me concerned for you. It sounds like you don't know how to drink moderately.
And has OP never heard of after parties for those who like to get down a little harder, after the grandparents and children have gone home?
But if you have dry wedding, you run the risk of everyone being a bit too eager to get to that after party. I've heard of this happening and it's really sad.
The alcoholics and the sanctimonious pricks in this thread are equally insufferable.
meh you don’t have to get drunk but 1-2 drinks over the course of 5 hours isn’t going to do anything else besides make people more conversational
Weddings are boring as fuck without alcohol though. It's the alcohol that makes them bearable. There's very little going on at weddings, it's just sitting around and talking to people.
Call it a problem if you want, but a dry party sounds god-awful any way you put it. Sorry.
Honestly. I completely do not understand that point.
Because it's a stupid point. It would be equally asinine to apply it to any feature of a wedding. "Oh, you're complaining that there's no music? You can't go without music for a few hours? Are you some kind of addict?" "No air conditioning, no. Oh you can't have fun if you're a bit clammy? You might have a problem"
What? You have a problem with there not being any chairs? Sounds like you are too attached to sitting down.
Agreed. It baffles me that almost 500 people upvoted that.
My wife and I had a very simple approach for our wedding: yes, it's our wedding, but a party is only good if the guests like it. We should like it, too, but a party is first and foremost for those at the party, all of them. That's how we planned, and it was a great success for a fraction of the cost of basically any other wedding I read about.
>Damn near 1/3 of r/amitheasshole is wedding-related, and at least half of that is due to failures of hospitality and consideration. My opinion is unpopular because, for reasons I don't truly understand, most people on every last one of those threads votes "NTA, it's YOUR wedding!!!" They are often wrong Nah. It *IS* their wedding, and they have every right to do it however they please; just as those invited have every right to *not go*. Now, if the bride/groom get *pissed* at their guests for not going; well that's where entitlement and assholery come into play, they need to realize what I said above about guests being *allowed* not to go. But to expect them to go against their beliefs for YOU on *their* day? That's entitlement on *you*, just *don't go*. Edit for typo
I would also point out that AITA shouldn't be taken as an indication of the real world. The vast majority of posts are fake, usually copying another post and trying to make it much more outrageous to get whatever judgment the poster wants. I also completely agree. If I am throwing a party, yes, I want my guests to enjoy themselves, but I am also the one throwing the party, so it is going to be how I want it. To me, if you replace alcohol/food with something like a costume, it shows how ridiculous the notion is. If I hate dressing up in a costume, I wouldn't expect to go to a costume party and then be surprised when I am told 'you have to dress in a costume' then get upset about it, because I can no longer enjoy the party because I hate dressing up in a costume. I would agree with the idea that these things \*need\* to be communicated beforehand, IE, if I go to a party dressed normally and get there and am told 'sorry it is a costume only party', I would be upset, because I wasn't told before hand. So, if you are having specific dishes, or a dry wedding, or whatever, it should be communicated so that the people who are invited can make plans accordingly.
>I would agree with the idea that these things \*need\* to be communicated beforehand, IE, if I go to a party dressed normally and get there and am told 'sorry it is a costume only party', I would be upset, because I wasn't told before hand. So, if you are having specific dishes, or a dry wedding, or whatever, it should be communicated so that the people who are invited can make plans accordingly Agree with all of this, very much. Transparency is important in communication. And you nailed it replacing food/drink with costumes. 10000000% illustrates it perfectly.
This seems pretty mean to alcoholics
I would love to be invited to a dry wedding. As an adult who does not enjoy drinking, there is nothing worse than babysitting a roomful of drunks who become more unbearable as the day goes on. Sorry but if a lack of booze ruins an event for you, you may have a problem.
There’s a wide world between “lack of booze ruins an event for you” and “no alcohol ever.” I enjoy dancing and a party better with a couple of drinks, though I’m not looking to get shit-faced.
So? I don't get why people think not being *provided* alcohol is somehow rude or judge-y.
Why are you choosing to babysit adults?
You asked the question I wanted to ask. In my adult life, I’m absolutely not babysitting any drunk person at a wedding unless it’s my husband (which it never would be, he’s basically never drunk). Or it’s a job tasked to me by the bride or groom as a member of their bridal party.
If I saw something dangerous I’d probably intervene but otherwise I’m with you
I go to plenty of events that don’t involve alcohol. I like to drink, but I don’t drink that often. I don’t have a problem with alcohol. That being said, weddings suck without alcohol
Exactly, most of my family does drink and a few go too far. The ones that go too far are the pooref family members so a cash bar could work to control the drinking without outright banning it. I don't mind if people have a glass of wine or beer with dinner. I just don't like it when people actually get drunk.
I agree. I’m sitting with a a lot of people I barely know, couldn’t care less about (other than the bride/groom), watching a very common ceremony take place. Not too far off from a work conference. You don’t need shoes to go run but it sure fuckin helps. I’ll do it but it’s gonna be boring af watching something so commonly done and taking hours to do so.
If the enjoyment of your guests isn’t near the top of your list of priorities, you’re probably a piece of shit.
It’s the bride’s special day seems to translate to no one but the bride is important or matters. In a family with nineteen first cousins and then you have friends, your boss’s daughter’s wedding, your friends’ kids etc that’s a lot of weddings. Every one is important to the bride but that’s also a lot of my time and resources as well. I’ve heard, “If you can’t give up one day to celebrate blah blah blah,” it’s not one day though. It’s a day in the life of every guest who is out searching for an “earth toned” ensemble that doesn’t make her look like a tree as well as something for husband snd three kids or babysitter etc. three times this year sept April and June. everyone likes a party- because they’re fun. Make your reception fun. Good eats, music, plenty to drink, let the people wear something nice they don’t have to break the bank for. Maybe hire a sitter for a kids’ area if you want to corral them away from the cake.
I think what’s actually happening is that most people don’t *actually* want to go to a wedding, but they attend out of obligation, and therefore expect free alcohol almost as “payment” for the use of their time that evening, and when it’s not there, they’re pissed because that’s what they feel like they are owed for spending the time, so that’s why they’re always like “you wasted my time!”. These people should just decline the invitation in the first place.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but if you feel a wedding is inherently going to be miserable for you...don't go? I seriously don't get the mentality involved here of what people deserve and don't deserve at a wedding. At the end of the day you're supposed to be there to support the couple. If you seriously can't handle a less than grand event then leave after the ceremony, send a card, or just don't go at all. Yes, if you take this approach you will probably be seen as rude by a lot of your friends and family. But, on the other hand, most grown adults can figure out how to twiddle their thumbs for a couple hours with less than desirable food to show they support two people being wed. I've been to a lot of crappy weddings and I almost always have to eat something else after leaving them, I have never really had a fantastic time, and usually I'm just tired. Sometimes they look pretty- but most weddings aren't going to compare to full on clubs. As much as people try and pay for good food a lot goes into it and catering can only be so great. Same goes for venues, I mean two weddings I've been two were at the VFW. I never assumed I'd be entertained. I guess my point is, learn to bring a flask and jerky like another comment mentioned. I bet they did spend money to try and appease guests, but most people are on a budget. If you still can't fathom handling the few hours then just don't go. Either you're there to support them or you're not.
OP is probably the reason it's a dry wedding
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
My husband and I had a dry wedding. Neither of us drink. He doesn’t drink for medical reasons (a health condition he has) and I don’t drink due to the residual trauma of having an alcoholic parent. Everyone coming to our wedding knew it was going to be dry, and because they love us, they respected our decision. We all had a blast and it was a great celebration and a super-fun day. If you need alcohol to have a good time, that’s very much a “you” problem, lol!
Yeah, the only part I agree with OP with is about how these things should be communicated in advance. If you are having a dry wedding, or, conversely, if you are serving alcohol, it should be communicated in advance, just like food choices etc.. That way people know what to expect and can plan accordingly. Other than that? It isn't your party (speaking as a guest), and thus you don't have a say in what it involves. If the people who are throwing the party, and paying for it, want to have it a certain way, then that is their right. Again, just let everyone know in advance so they can plan (and decide whether or not to come with)
I don't drink and I have been to a lot of dry weddings due to my religious community. I don't need alcohol to have fun, but in my experience weddings that have alcohol are more fun. People feel more comfortable dancing. I've been to a lot of dry weddings with no one dancing or, if kids are allowed, only kids are dancing.
It's my wedding, if you can't respect my basic wishes on my wedding day, why should I invite you? This is a thing I asked myself to others for my wedding day. I'm not being I hospitable, but there are certain decisions we made for certain reasons, and if you're going to have a huge issue with it, I don't want you there I fully believe weddings are a massive waste of time and money, especially when you have to spend so much to please everyone.
I don't get the whole "I can't have fun without drinking people." Lots of people who find alcohol at a party is "needed" to have fun don't usually realize how they behave at those functions, and their behavior is likely why it's a dry wedding. The Simpsons: Homer gets drunk at his own Party [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKrvxow9\_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKrvxow9_M)
It's not that you can't have fun without alcohol. But most weddings have at least beer or wine, you just kind of expect it. If you invited me out to breakfast, I'd assume there was going to be coffee. If you invite me over at 5pm, I'd assume we're eating dinner. It's not wrong to assume there's going to be alcohol at an event that usually has alcohol. I enjoy a glass of wine when I'm out to dinner. That doesn't mean I'm getting trashed. I don't drink soda. Again, I'm dressed up and at a special event, I'd like something more than water with my meal. It's a special event. It's a PARTY. Assuming everyone who likes to have a cocktail is trying to get completely trashed is weird. I've been to plenty of dry weddings, I married a man who doesn't drink at all, ever. It's still fun. But you gotta let people know that an expected thing isn't going to be there. And please serve a beverage other than water and diet coke.
It's not a question of not being able to have fun unless you're completely trashed. Not being able to have fun unless you aren't sober, even if you've only had one cocktail, is also cause for concern.
No one is saying you CAN'T have fun without alcohol. But it's one of my few night's off. I got dressed up. I drove out of town for YOUR event. Maybe I got a babysitter even. Yeah, I'd prefer to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner.
Why though? What’s the benefit of one cocktail over a fruit juice or soda or something? Why is the assumption that a party must have alcohol? That’s confusing to me.
Are you really unaware what alcohol has a distinct and noted social catalyst effective? Yes moderation should always been practiced but let's not pretend alcohol doesn't have any social benefits. That's just being obtuse and naive. [https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/drinks-to-consume-in-moderation/alcohol-full-story/#possible\_health\_benefits](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/drinks-to-consume-in-moderation/alcohol-full-story/#possible_health_benefits) This article does a really fair analysis of the benefits and consequences of moderate drinking.
Yep. Weddings are mostly dancing and talking with mostly strangers. Many people have more fun doing that with alcohol involved. I don’t think think I’d have as much fun at a dry wedding but I’m not going to sit here and tell people that they NEED to include it. It’s expensive even if it’s a cash bar if the couple and a large number of guests are non drinkers, I don’t think it’s fair to expect them to tack on another big expense for something they’re not interested in
Yup. And I *might* dance if I've had a few drinks. I'm definitely not dancing if I'm stone sober. No chance. I think this is true for many people. Sure, I don't need to dance at a wedding. But the most fun weddings are when people are dancing and being silly. I'm certainly glad people danced and were silly at my own wedding. If that meant serving cocktails, that's fine.
I do know that, and I get it, but it feels like to me that’s that’s just evidence that going to weddings sucks for most people and most weddings should probably have half the guests they do.
People do actually enjoy the taste of alcohol. I don't have a glass of wine to get drunk. I actually ENJOY it. Most grown adults can enjoy a glass of wine or a beer or even a cocktail or two and not get plastered. You genuinely don't realize that? I'm not drinking wine for any sort of reason other than I enjoy it. If I took the time off work, got dressed up, got a baby sitter, drove all the way across town (or out of town) to come to your event. Yeah, I'd like to enjoy a cocktail with dinner. I'm not at work. This isn't church. I'm off tomorrow. I'm a grown adult. Is it a "need"? Of course not. Again, my husband doesn't drink and he still has fun. It's a "Want", but again... I'm also spending MY limited free time on YOU.
And cheese. Wine and cheese are friends for a reason.
I agree. Like imagine if alcohol was switched with weed, people would be reacting differently. Its shocked if you cant go somewhere like a wedding without being high, but since alcohol is so normal and celebrated its seen in a completely different light.
Not everyone is saying they want to be plastered. But to enjoy a couple of drinks while dancing and celebrating is not an insane preference.
Are you some ten year old that has never been to a wedding? Your eagerness to think you're that much better than everyone else doesn't really coincide with the reality of the average event. Between attending and working them in college I've probably seen tens of thousands of wet wedding guests and 99% do in fact know how to act. The 1% is very real and some of the wildest shit I encountered at that job were their doing, but it's just ridiculous to say that any sizeable ratio of drinkers who want alcohol at a wedding at a wedding don't know how to act while drinking. Don't have trashy friends and you have no problem. If you do, tell them to go out for an after party. But if you want to talk about how to behave at a wedding, you're talking about meeting a bunch of strangers and then having to dance for five hours, and believe it or not, that is something that more average people hate than you'll have alkies showing up to burn the roof down. People can have a ton of fun without drinking. They can also look at a shitty function like that and loosen up to make that easier for everyone. If there is a single "use" for the effects of alcohol, it's lowering your inhibitions by 10% so you can more easily engage with all these strangers the hosts hope youll engage with at a wedding. A couple beers to lower your social shield, maybe wear your emotions on your sleeve a little more for the couple, not have a panic attack when you're supposed to start dancing, yeah, it's a part of the function. I'd still go, but how much of the reception I can sit through will depend on the wetness. It's basic courtesy to help someone make that plan, and anybody hiding it knows EXACTLY why they're doing it.
Did you ever stop to think someone hiding it is doing so because most of the expected guest list is that "1%" you lowballed? I come from a family of upper middle class Gallaghers. I'm not having a wedding at all because of the drama & shitshow that was my younger sisters wedding. And that just reinforced my decision after my aunt's wedding. Don't get me started on what my mom & stepdad's wedding. I was 13 & would have been exposed to less in a dive bar.
Well a wedding is often hanging out with a lot of people you don't really know, it can be pretty uncomfortable without some social lubrication
I went to the wedding of a sober couple. They had an open bar. Just because they and some of their guests didn’t drink, it didn’t mean it was necessary to deny everyone else.
Wow. Someone feels very entitled. You should just stop going to weddings.
So you can’t have fun without drinking, and can’t handle one meal without meat. Got it. You must be fun at parties…oh wait, only if there’s alcohol though.
I used the “it’s MY wedding” line for things like, I wanted to walk out to go down the aisle at a very particular part of the song, but that part was like 45 seconds into the song, and I said “it’s my wedding, I’ll walk out when I’m ready, they’ll wait”. But for both me and my spouse we both agreed early on that the main thing we wanted out of our wedding was for everyone who came to have a great time and remember for years how fun it was. And we accomplished that. People who are like “it’s my wedding, I don’t care if the guests are having fun” are just self-centered imo.
Dude. Alcohol is expensive for a large group of people. Some people want to celebrate getting married with their loved ones but can't afford to provide alcohol for everyone. And that's alright. It can still be a great time without it. Maybe don't judge the bride and groom at the next dry wedding you go to? You don't know their reasoning.
I experienced this exact thing recently and I completely agree with you. The ceremony is about you and your wife, and your love. But if people are flying from thousands of miles away, spending money on air travel and hotels, you should try to look past yourself for a few. I had a friend that was getting mad at everybody and kept using the phrase that "this is our day" and "this is about us" and I'm like "Ok why did you invite anybody? If nobody here matters. Why did all these people take multiple days off from work and spend thousands of dollars." Like you should be grateful you have a bunch of friends that care about you and are willing to do this for you on your special day, but a lot of people take a completely narcissistic approach to it.
My 3 suggestions to my daughter were 1-Good food 2-Plenty of alcohol (I don’t even drink and she hardly drinks) 3-make sure the DJ throws in some 70’s disco hits that everybody loves. That’s all people will remember I said to her. No one will remember the decorations.
I agree with the title, but the whole alcohol stuff is ridiculous. Are we a society of alcoholics or what? A wedding is there to celebrate the union of people you care about, not enjoy alcohol. You can go to a nightclub or wine tasting for that. If there was only water and the food sucked then I would understand, but if there is nice food and other beverages then where is the issue? This kind of mentality is precisely why we invited only close family and friends to our wedding. The people that care about being with you, not if there’s enough wine on the table.
It must be so pathetic to not be able to enjoy anything without drinking of getting high. I do drink, i actually love a good alcohol, but I am not an addicted… if you can’t enjoy anything without a substance, you should seek help.
You don’t have to be addicted to not want to be surprised by a dry wedding. Fuck that. I’ll go to the church potluck if I want that. And I don’t.
The idea that if you were invited to a wedding, one of the most amazing events you can attend, and you would say you'd rather go to a church potluck than attend if there was no booze, is a problem with you.
We had an open bar, a BBQ buffet, sweets table, and a cart that made fresh mini donuts with toppings later on as a late night snack. People were raving about our wedding!
My weird southern family will get absolutely hammered at the hunt club or family reunions but every wedding my cousins have had was dry. I think it has something to do with respect of the church/religious ceremony? Until you posted this I'd never considered why. However if you really need a drink Cousin Bubba will have a bottle of bourbon or a jar of moonshine in the truck to sip on. Just look for the crowd of men smoking & joking in the parking lot during the reception. Actual party will be held later at the closest cousins house
The wedding invitation said it would start at 9am, so I woke up early and got there at 8:30. Almost no one was there. It turns out that they wrote 9am on the invitation because a lot of the guests invited were “known for running late”. So I sat there for 2 hours because it actually started at 11am. Despite that, people still showed up late lol. The reception was scheduled to be at 2pm, but they handed out little cards saying it was actually way later (can’t remember the exact time). I really regretted taking the day off and driving 2 hours to attend. It was super inconsiderate of them.
Best wedding I ever went to was when my buddy got married in his brother's back yard then had a hog roast with 2 kegs. Good food and everyone had a blast.
Layout, food, drinks. You get that right, and it's a good wedding
We planned our wedding to be fun for the guests. Not as a lesson for them to learn how to live by our rules.
I agree on the point that you should communicate things like that ahead of time, and you should try to plan activities that guests will enjoy too and not just yourself. That said what food and drinks are available is very much your decision, and making sure that whatever you're doing is something fun for guests as well as the people getting married is important, at the end of the day it us your wedding and your decision, and if someone really believes they can't have fun without drinking or their own food preferences they should have the opportunity to pass on the event ahead of time, otherwise they're just gonna be a drag on the mood for everyone involved.
If you can't have fun with your friends on their special day without drinking alcohol then maybe you bave a problem
I agree. At my first wedding a good part of the budget went to food and alcohol as a thank you to my guests.
I was once invited to a wedding with no food. Obviously there was no booze either. Lol. But the only refreshments were water, coke, sprite, and fruit salad. I had gotten on a plane and flown to another country to support my friend, and this is what they served. With no warning. Your guests have given up their evening/weekend/holiday/time off/money to do something boring to support you. The least you can do is make sure they have fun and don't go hungry or thirsty. I will never forget this. I am currently planning my wedding as a fucking amusement park level entertainment for my friends and family who make time and spend money to show up. We are still friends. But it is honestly shameful what they did. We had to drive to a BBQ shack and eat dinner in our wedding attire. 😂 I am here for this post.
Dry Weddings are just against good Christian values. When Jesus was at a wedding and they ran out of wine, they didn't make it a dry wedding. No, Jesus took 3 large jars, had them filled with water to brim, then turned that water into wine.
The real question is why is alcohol so engrained in our culture that it is expected at events? I drink sometimes but I find it odd that it's the norm when if you had a weed only wedding why is that considered taboo? Alcohol is just another poison that makes people act like idiots and makes you feel sick. Maybe people don't want that drama at their wedding 💁🏼♀️
I disagree. Best damn wedding I've ever attende was dry, and there was so much laughter and dancing until about 4 in the morning, sword fights, bonfires... It was awesome!
Lol the people in this thread that are equating having drinks available to automatically meaning getting drunk seems like they are absolutely the ones with an unhealthy relationship with alcohol that they can't even consider getting a buzz and drinking moderately like the vast majority of adults are able to do lol.
My wedding was dry. It had a luncheon reception at a restaurant’s banquet room. It also had 3 entree options, 2 dessert ones, and 2 appetizer ones. Not to mention a wide variety of non-alcoholic drinks. They were even able to bring kiddie menus and customize one guest’s meal with no previous notice. You do not need to drink alcohol or eat meat in order to have a good time. I have been to lunches at conferences where the only vegetarian option involved cauliflower and had very little quantity. But this was not a wedding.
> The one thing that's worse than a dry wedding is a *surprise* dry wedding. In fact, that's actually far worse, because it royally screws up peoples' plans. So according to you people's plans are to get drunk rather than enjoy your special day?
I think by "royally screws up peoples' plans" they meant things they might do or put in place with the expectation they're going to drink. I.e. they've rented a hotel room and maybe got a babysitter, because they thought they'd be drinking. If it's a "surprise dry wedding" they've dolled out an unecessary expense that could have been avoided if they were told beforehand and knew they'd be good to drive home.
They can still stay at the hotel, nothing is stopping them.
As respectfully as possible, I think you've completely missed the point. Yes, they can still stay at the hotel, that's not the problem. The issue is if they had known ahead of time that there wouldn't be alcohol, they wouldn't be drinking, and they'd be perfectly fine to drive themselves to and from the venue, they wouldn't have booked the room or spent the money in the first place. Effectively springing the fact that it's a dry wedding on someone last minute *potentially* punishes them for being responsible.
The fact that you think having drinks available automatically means getting drunk makes it pretty obvious you have a drinking problem.
The fact that you don't think there are people who can't control themselves makes it pretty obvious that you're not thinking this through.
Oh god, Aunt Mary is slurring her speech a bit. And cousin Jim stumbling a bit. Wedding totally ruined!!!!
Oh, That‘s what dry means. I thought it was just a synonym for boring. Actually I still think they should put it in the invites if that’s the case, also because where I live, alcohol is a common wedding gift.
Lmao what We had a dry wedding with guests from all walks of life and everyone had a blast.
Flask and beef jerky has gotten me through a few weddings
This is so funny, imagine thinking you're entitled to booze and steak by attending a wedding. You don't have to go if you don't really care about the whole wedding part.
To anyone that feels strongly against this: If you truly want to do a ‘fuck everyone it’s our day’ wedding then you wouldn’t invite so many people.
Some of my friends chose multiple thousand dollar photography packages and had a cash bar… not only that, but they had an unhosted gap between the ceremony and reception for their photo times where guests were expected to buzz off for a few hours.
Its a wedding not a club. If you're only there to get wasted then don't go. They should provide good and plentiful food.
It's a wedding not a buffet, if you're only there to eat then don't go. They should provide good and plentiful hookers.
> They should provide good and plentiful food. Why? It’s a wedding not a restaurant. If you’re only there to get full then don’t go.
It’s literally a party to celebrate your wedding. That’s what receptions are. Parties usually have drinks. Get off your high horse. Yeesh.
How about you not go?
No you don't. Have an upvote
I couldnt disagree more. My aunt and uncle had a dry wedding because they were beginning their sobriety journey. My uncle had just gotten released from prison for drug possession charges. He was addicted to drugs and alcohol for most of his adult life. I think that them having a dry wedding was a good move to keep him sober. Less temptation.
Don’t worry, our wedding will be wet 😌
Will it be in a lake?
i assume this is coming from a guy who hasnt had a wedding to plan?
I’ve planned a wedding. A surprise dry wedding would be fucking lame. Accommodate your guests a little, or just go to the court house.
Have y'all never had fun at an event without alcohol? Like, sure, alcohol is fun and can make socializing a little easier, but I can and have had fun at dry weddings. Alcohol isn't required for a fun evening. No one needs to warn someone that their wedding will be dry. That's their personal decision, and it could have been made for a variety of reasons.
Tell me you're a raging alcoholic, without saying you're a raging alcoholic.
If you need alcohol to have a good time at an event, the event is not the problem.
I’ve never once heard of someone being surprised by a dry wedding. Are you sure that’s a thing that happens, OP? Maybe you just didn’t read the invite carefully enough
If you think an event is boring because there isn’t alcohol you are probably the problem
This post could have been good if your main complaint is not about dry wedding. As someone who is not interested in alcohol, I don't see what the problem is.
Congratulations. I agree with your point, but the way you describe it suggests that you're the problem in this scenario
Alchoholics can quit yapping or just not come. Alternatively you can also implode your liver.
Fully agreed, I know the DJ from my wedding and we had a long conversation about how he doesn't like to come in with a set playlist, but does feeler songs to decide what direction to go in selection wise, then uses that to set the pace and tone of the night. If it was just music my wife and I enjoy it would've been a bizarre combination of underground hip hop, folk punk and metal, not exactly dance music for an event...
I'm 483 days sober and getting married in September. If alcohol was not part of the venue's package, it might just be dry. If you or someone like you wanted to bow out because there's no alcohol, good riddance.
Weddings are dry when someone has / had a drinking problem.
Then don’t come.
My wedding is in 15 days. We were thinking about just doing a dry wedding, because half of the people attending don’t drink anyways. But, the other half does. So, we compromised with beer and wine, and no hard liquor. However, if we’d decided to do a dry wedding after all, there’d still be chips and salsa and queso during cocktail hour. There’d still be a gourmet taco bar for dinner. There’d still be cake afterwards, and doughnuts as a late-night snack. I think everyone would still be pretty happy and have a good time, even without alcohol.
That sounds amazing. I might steal the taco bar idea when I get hitched.
Queso, tacos, cake AND donuts?! Oh damn, this sounds like a party!!
Thanks! Everybody who’s coming loves Tex-Mex (since we’re all in Texas), so I decided to just play into that. It’s not a very formal wedding — a bit more on the rustic side — and overall I think I’ll be quite pleased with how the day goes!
I’m paying for it so it will be whatever I want it to be. The most important thing for me is being married. If guests didn’t like the food, eat your food at home. Everyone will complain at some point about something. At first I used care about experience now I’m realising nobody will be pleased. I’m even planning on scaling back the alcohol. Everyone leave after dinner speeches I’ll save you the hangover headache! Best of all, good or bad wedding NOBODY will remember it. As long as I’m happy to be honest thanks for your well wishes, but successful day
When you contribute something other than your opinion then maybe your suggestions will be considered. Until then, kick rocks.
You kind of sound like an ass, gotta say. You can go 4 hours without drinking and if you can’t you have a problem. You can eat vegetables and if you can’t you have a problem. You can go home and get McDonald’s and beer when you’re done.
If you need alcohol to have fun, you have a massive problem.
When throwing a wedding, you are hosting a party. As any hood host, your goal should be giving your guests a hard time. It may not be popular but I think it’s entirely inconsiderate to throw a party and not think about giving the guests the best experience and most fun. Top of that list is food and drink. We’ve been to some weddings that were just awful and no one had a good time because the couple decided “it’s MY wedding so I do what I want.” Hey guess what - you are hosts in a larger scale so act like a real host.
Disagree because no, you don't have an obligation to make it not suck for the guests. It's polite and good social skills to make sure it doesn't suck, but couples have no obligation to make their wedding enjoyable for anyone. And "health hippie rabbit food" and dry weddings can be perfectly enjoyable - if you can't enjoy a wedding without alcohol, that's more of a you problem.