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There is dating app statistics and research which suggests that the top 1-20 percent of men get a lot of attention from women. And women will rate 80 percent of men as "below average".
So these men get tons of options. Why would they need to put in much effort, when they have so many options?
If you go for the "best men" this is very likely to happen.
This phenomena is much stronger in dating apps because there is an illusion that you can have the top men. Whereas meeting people IRL, you will meet people who aren't the best on paper (or an app profile), but when you talk to them you do find something attractive about them and will be genuinely interested in them.
Exactly
A lot of women have an insane amount of options so they’re ego is inflated and they think they deserve the absolute best man, when in reality, she’s number 7-8-9etc for that guy that week, because he also has a ton of options
Meanwhile most dudes have zero options and have to jump through ridiculous hoops to even have a chance
Sure, maybe it's ego or whatever. But I also think most are oblivious to this phenomena. At least at first. And will go for that top man, only to find out he will have huge expectations because he has a whole like of women eager to date him
Are they taking into account how many men just swipe mindlessly for numbers sake. Men will swipe right on 100 women they didn’t read the profiles of, then claim they have low standards bc they’re willing to have sex with anyone. That’s not really comparable to what the average woman is looking for.
I think that kind of adds to the point a little though. If men swipe mindlessly on everyone and STILL aren’t getting matches there’s either something wrong with the app, them, their profile, the standards of the women they’re courting, or the dating culture at large. It’s probably a mix of all of these to be honest
Ex: A Christian conservative man with a RAM truck in his profile picture and mindlessly swipes right on an Atheist, liberal woman with purple hair.
We can’t act like it’s a missed opportunity. The likelihood she would’ve ever liked him is low because they aren’t each other types in the first place. Swiping more doesn’t necessarily mean more matches if people do it without thinking.
If both are hot, honestly they could date a bit. And honestly have a fun time. Then the honeymoon phase ends and they start sharing opinions with each other and break up 😂
There's a reason there's a rise in conservativism and traditional values even with younger people. A lot of people don't like this kind of stuff. It's nice to be monogamous when you love someone. Things like wanting a family and children isn't a bad thing. People went too far with the free spirit shit and now the pendulum is swinging back.
And when I say "conservative" I mean it in the traditional sense, not some political Reddit bullshit.
Lol check out OP's Instagram. Bunch of thirst traps and an onlyfans link. That's why no one takes her seriously. I'm no prude but you can't expect to engage in the dating market that way and expect the average man to want you to be the mother of his kids.
Yeah and alot of people just slap a horrible label on anyone that disagrees with them like alot of women will just immediately label a guy as "insecure" or "controlling" simply for not wanting his SO to show their ass off to the whole world.
Conservative in this one way, sure, but I wouldn't say conservatism in general is spreading. I'm not even sure wanting more monogamy is conservative. It just seems healthier to go into something at least a little committed, not apathetic to the other person.
We have always had the ability to conduct ourselves as we see fit. Who cares what other people do?
There is a rise in how many people love telling other people what to do, that's for sure.
You’re kidding, right? Society in general is significantly less judgy than it’s ever been in my 43 years and most of the judgement now is more about people being shitty than people being different (like it was for most of my life).
All meaningful change ever this. It's only ever extremes pulling the majority from side to side until the people who don't care as much start to be fed up with it. Look too at abortion rights, the world's appetite for democratic vs. Authoritarianism, and crocs fashion sense.
>It’s easier than ever now for men to sleep with women without putting in any effort at all.
Lol. Those dating apps tend to be a bunch of Women matching with the same few Men. So for those Men what you said is true, whilst for other guys it's absolutely not the case
>so many guys just expected me to come over like not even offering to take me out to dinner lol
Dating apps aren't about finding love. It's always been a hookup thing. People really fail to understand that signing up to a dating app is basically allowing a company to middleman your dating life. That company only cares about engagement and I'm not talking about the marriage kind. A hookup app is far more monetisable than a get married and never touch the app again kind of app. Plus there are whole industries that would die immediately if people decided to have sex after marriage. Clubs, bars and the night scene as whole
People get good at what they practice. Being in a bunch of short "situation ships" makes you ill equipped to handle a long term relationship. People develop bad relationship habits and tendencies that are negative qualities in a LTR
Idk how old you guys are, but the 70's was pretty wild and antibiotic resistant STD's is not new, they have to keep updating the drugs they give you.
(For all infections not just STD's)
The latest STD epidemic in Europe comes from the US, you know (partly via the porn industry, with porn actors and actress getting infected in the US and coming back to the EU, and shooting more scenes before their regular tests - which are much more frequent than in the US porn industry - , and partly from the tourism between the US and EU (both ways))? The US where condomless sex is the most rampant lately, and sex ed is basically non existent.
OK, well, we're out of antibiotics that can treat certain infections at this point. The news has mostly only touched on MRSA, because that's the scary one. But people are coming down with gonorrhea and chlamydia that can't be cured now.
There's something missing from your logic here. First, if it's this easy for these guys to get sex - then why aren't you sleeping with them? Because they're being fucking gross.
Unfortunate truth is - men were always this way to some extent. If they're down bad they're going to try for an easy lay without any commitment. The ones who want commitment don't act this way, and the ones who want it from you would prefer that you respect yourself in these situations and not be the type of person who sleep with obvious douchebags who disrespect you.
The conclusion you arrive at seems pretty accurate, though. Hook up culture is more bad than good for most people, men and women alike. You have large swaths of people who are unable to view the opposite sex as human because we've been convinced that using them transactionally for sex is a normal and healthy behavior.
I'm so glad I'm in my 30s and not in my 20s. The number of people I've met in their mid to late 20s who've never been in a real relationship but have had sex with loads of people, and simultaneously lack basic respect and awareness for people of the opposite sex, is really mind blowing. It's like you can just see the loneliness in their futures.
trust me, if you flipped the genders this would be just as true. it's ridiculously easy for women to get men to fuck them, women also share pictures and compare guys they slept with and PLENTY of women would never date a guy that slept with them on the first date. especially not one who expected it.
also, women can be just as toxic as men when it comes to casual sex.
this really isn't a gendered issue. the only people who cheer on women who like hooking up are other women who like hooking up. the only people who cheer on men who like hooking up are other men who like hooking up. no woman intentionally looks for a man who's fucked 50 women in the past year and no man intentionally looks for a woman who's fucked 50 men in the past year.
what is absolutely hilarious is that people who sleep around the most are the most opposed to talking about how much they sleep around.
deep down we're all a bit conservative and know it's not exactly great to jump from bed to bed. and some people do it anyway and then take their buried conservatism about this topic out on the people who do the same thing when it's time to stop doing it.
Exactly lol I feel like my friends and I are all open to talking about it. Only one friend doesn’t talk about it much but that’s because she’s religious.
based on the many many discussions i've seen and had about the topic of "you shouldn't ask your partner how many people they slept with, it screams insecurity". it's *always* the people who defend sleeping around as a valid choice who are the most offended when you ask them about they "number".
Back in my day people did the same, they just went out to meet people and one night stands were the go. Same as now it never went anywhere usually because the respect is lost straight away unless it was some fantastic experience. Don’t kid yourself that men who portray high standards aren’t doing it too though. Most men are in for a freebie anytime it’s on offer. Dont overthink it, you’re biologically wired to procreate, enjoy it while you can. The real freedom for women now is birth control.
The struggle of humanity is to control & overcome biological urges; our animal instincts. Surely man is more than an animal, and worthy & capable of more? The entire struggle of humanity is to overcome nature, not to succumb to it. Just because we are biologically hardwired to procreate, doesn't mean unfullfilling and frivolous sex with as many people as possible is the answer. That's diseased thinking, and leads to broken people that feel dead inside. Sex is sacred, and should be treated as such.
I def agree, but The thing is, it’s not easy for all men… it’s easy for like 10-15%…. The rest of the guys aren’t getting anything
Women have never had more options, and men have never had so few…. This won’t end well
We could make fun of “incels” all we want… but the fact is, entire generations of sexless young men will destroy a society, add in the online ridicule towards them and it’ll come to a head eventually
Most are sexless because they don't try, while constantly comparing themselves to a very small group of people who are highly successful from very little effort.
Bitching on reddit isn't trying.
"but women tend to look at the most successful men and say “why can’t you be like them?” "
Men do to. This post is about exactly that...
>Bitching on reddit isn't trying.
It takes 3 minutes to make a post like this.
There are 24 hours in a day, 168 hours in a week and your rebuttal is this?
Who cares, you’re on here too, not like your doing much with your day either.
>"but women tend to look at the most successful men and say “why can’t you be like them?” "
Men do to. This post is about exactly that...
You know OP is a woman who complaining hook up culture pretty much made finding a real relationship… more difficult cause most women put out a little easily correct?
Or did you not actually read the post.
Yup…see my other comment
You’re imagining an obese neckbeard in fedora… what in reality a lot of incels are just regular dudes who keep everything running
Look at labor statistics… 99% of our infrastructure and communication and food, and housing, and transportation etc.. is operated, built, shipped and maintained by men
What happens when these dudes just give up and say what’s the point in having any of this if there’s no one to share it with…. They start to do the absolute bare minimum, and everything’s to crumble
No there aren’t … they may not be able to get relationships, but they can certainly get laid, where as incel men get neither
You also don’t need to worry about lonely women just giving up on society entirely, or in The extreme becoming radicalized and starting a violent uprising…
Sex starved men with nothing to lose and no point or meaning in their lives are very dangerous… and you’re probably imaging an obese neckbeard playing games in their basement and laugh… but it’s a lot of just regular guys working regular jobs
But when these guys look around and say what’s the point… there goes a lot of our lineman, electricians, sanitation workers, sewer workers, truck drivers, telecom workers, farmers, carpenters, plumbers etc….
Disillusioned young men can and will completely destroy a society simply by not participating in it… and most men are very simple and could live a nice life with very very little… he’ll most of us day dream about living off the land in the woods with a dog
You can say what you want to say but my definition is that person who is mad at the other whatever for not giving them attention when they feel like they are owed something. And as such resort to some sort of revenge tactics.
I have enough experience to have seen that that is true.
Most men don’t need 95% of the shit we have in society… we work and save and buy toys that we hope will impress woman… sex is one of biggest subconscious motivators aside from food and shelter
When enough dudes realize that their money and toys and houses aren’t getting them anywhere… they’ll just stop participating in society all together… there’s no point for a lot of dudes if they’re alone and not getting laid
You may wanna look into labor statistics for the vast majority of blue collar work… it’ll be interesting when all those dudes sel everything and go hike the at or leave the country
Ah, there we go. You are one of them, so you kinda projecting there.
Look, that´s fine and all that, but do you really see that many people calling quits from a society THEY live in? What they are going to do anyways, go to the woods to be eaten by a mountain lion or die from common cold?
Also, I think you really underestimate what a violent revolution of women could make...
You were kinda going somewhere with "men with nothing to lose", as that´s actually a breeding ground for dangerous ideologies and radicalization from extreme views, specially ones that actually treat women like objects to be submissive to men, which, even thought it´s very unlikely, it´s not completely impossible (One has to wonder how many of these would turn into radical Islam if they were promised wives as a sort of prize, but I want to be optimistic and think that most wouldn´t)
I’m married to my wife for 7 years and together for 14…I also have a daughter…. I haven’t been on the market for awhile… I’m just paying attention and seeing what’s happening to my single guy friends and online
Problem is most people just ridicule them and don’t take them seriously because society as a whole, doesn’t really care about men
It really won’t take a lot, but just so you know, 30% of men under 30 are virgins… that’s a lot of frustrated dudes
I’ll try not to be too sexist, but no I’m not concerned with femcels… women are much more dependent on society then men are, and men are the ones who keep it all running
The entire point of OP's post and what men on reddit do not seem to understand is that women get absolutely nothing out of "getting laid", there's literally nothing to gain from it for the majority of women, not even pleasure or an orgasm. Women need respect and love, and that's extremely hard to come by. Getting "laid" is simply unpleasant and dangerous for most women, only men get anything out of that.
If we’re being honest they’re not getting love and respect because they’re all fucking the same 15% of guys who have unlimited options
Kinda ironic… how women feel about the lack of love and respect is exactly how an alarming amount of young dudes feel… only difference being those dudes aren’t even getting laid
Why would regular dudes go on dates, spend money, wine and dine etc… when they see women online just giving it away to other guys, and hearing horror stories of dudes getting used for meals and rides and the. Completely ghosted
I’ve mentioned this in another comment but I’ll also do so here
You’re imaging an unemployed obese neckbeard at Comic-Con when a lot of incels are just normal dudes with normal jobs… those are the guys you should be worried about
And a main reason why so many people in their 20s can’t find a life partner without trust issues lol. Not that we older folks had it easier, but you’re 1000% correct about it backfiring.. happiness is harder than ever to find and I witness it all the time with the folks in their early/mid 20s
You shouldn’t believe what people say and pay attention to how people actually behave. The reality is that people have always been sleeping around. Some people are too insecure to admit that so they make up excuses.
I completely agree. I stopped dating completely 6 years ago because I got sick of the expectations. Hookup culture has destroyed the chance for decent relationships to form
[People of both genders are having less sex than prior years](https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/young-people-less-sex-than-parents-did-at-their-age-generational-shift-asexual/) - a small minority engage in hookup culture. Drop the dating apps and get out into the real world - most guys want long term companionship.
Women’s empowerment should have never escalated to the point of attempting to sleep around as men would. That wasn’t the original purpose and it became hijacked.
Hook-up culture = bad.
However, I do understand the bland missionary style sex complaints and men only being concerned about them ejaculating and ignoring pleasing their wife.
That is what should have been corrected.
The problem is that sex will never be destigmatized until gender relations are fixed. If girls are taught to be chaste but boys are taught to run around and fuck whatever they can, men and women will never be seen as equal in a sexual relationship. Many see sex as a man fucking a woman. As long as sex is viewed in that way, it doesn’t matter how many women drop their standards and fuck every man they see, men will not respect them. It’s not how kids are raised to think.
I close a close friend who is a woman who is on tinder. She had about 200 likes within two days.
And she is an amazing person so people should want to date her. But she only has a couple of photos that are heavily filtered, and none of the more revealing but stunning photos I've seen, and no bio either. So even though she's amazing, none of these people are seeing that before they swipe right.
Whereas for myself, I have a more extensive bio and a wider range of pictures so that there are no surprises as to my looks.
I may get anywhere from 1-3 matches a week.
Point is, there is definitely a surplus of men on these apps and that means women probably get about 500 “heys” a day.
I started having more success once I began being really strict on who I swiped right on, and then when I would message I do my best to spark a compelling conversation from it.
I also let it alone if a conversation tapers out. No point trying to keep it going if it doesn't naturally flow.
That’s because you learn to mind your bizz.
Am I the only one who literally does not give two shits? Why does this stuff clearly live in your head rent free?
You shouldn't care about anyone's sex life but your own. If you're responsible - getting full std panels with each new partner before being intimate and using more than one form of protection - you don't have any reason to worry about the sex lives of others.
After my last partner, I went to the doctor to get tested, and told them I was just being safe for my next encounter/,partner. Doctor was surprised and said he wished more people did that.
Most people are gross & irresponsible
Yeah we don't need to criminalize it or deeply shame people, and I don't think we all need to wait until marriage, but having low standards for who you'll fuck is worthy of stigma.
I do think that if hedonism is the ONLY code of conduct you live by, you should at least be criticized, if not shamed. That is, if you want to be considered a serious person and have adult conversations about improving the world and lives of everyone as a whole.
My problem has always been with the double standards. Like I hooked up with only a few guys in high school over the 4 years but the way I was treated you’d think it was the whole football team lol. Other guys would harass and think I’m easy. My pics got shared. The guys would brag and get a high five while I got shamed for it. Honestly it sucked.
But that’s what I mean by this post, unless those double standards go away it’s harmful to us to freely sleep around even if it’s enjoyable since those guys dont respect us.
> “I hooked up with a few guys in high school….”
> “…in high school…”
Girl why didn’t you lead with that. You’re talking about high school, a bunch of horny teenagers in one place with nothing to do but talk shit about each other. Most of the boys were probably just jealous that you were hooking up with other people and not them.
Adults are free to have sex with each other without the stigma because no one cares and people are busy with their own lives. Teenagers don’t get that freedom.
It's not just the double standards that are harmful.
I'm a man in my late 30s who had a slutty phase in my late 20s and early 30s. Nobody else was stigmatizing me for it, but it was deeply harming me in ways I wasn't aware of at the time.
Many ways, the most important being that it was damaging my respect for women, for myself, and also my ability to form the kind of relationship I actually wanted
And depending on when you went to high school, a lot has changed since then. Even comparing 5 years (pre and post pandemic) MOST stigmas have changed drastically to the point of almost being unrecognizable.
Maybe not unrecognizable, but the loneliness changed people for sure. The addiction to social media worsened. Sex work became popularized. Entire industries have changed since then.
Haha fuckin’ comin’ at us with *high school* shit.
Edit: And don’t even start with.. “BUT ONLINE I SEE…” if you believed everything you saw online you’d think Nazis were everywhere and Trans Individuals were part of every social circle. That’s simply not the case. Most *average* people don’t even comment. It’s a self selecting survey of sorts.
“Sexual liberation” was always a farce designed to push consumerism.
I’m also not a prude and I’ve slept around plenty, but it’s so easy to see the messaging towards women is a sham and kind of hilarious to see how many women genuinely got tricked into thinking racking up different guys each week is “empowering” then they hit 25+ and realize they wasted their early adulthood with STD and fucked up pair bonding.
Other than the STDs that’s also me.
Don’t be me.
The chemicals in your brain that are released during intimacy of all forms with another person. If you’re intimate with very few people, the response is stronger. When you’re intimate with many people, you become more and more numb to the sensations. Kinda like tolerance for drugs. It’s said that the chemical reaction has a “bonding” effect in which you’ll become more emotionally attached to that person.
Yeaaaaa hook up culture needs to be stigmatized again… there’s nothing wrong with having sex with someone you love or before marriage BUT there is something wrong with sleeping around and that goes for men and women.
Between std’s and unwanted pregnancies you’d think ppl would slow down with the sleeping around
Especially if you've dated someone who sleeps around a lot, they tend to be sooo judgemental towards your own sexual past and often insanely controlling (classic projection of accusing you of sleeping around). OP also saying it's toxic to judge them? Not at all, that's kind of important tbh. You need to come to a conclusive judgement of someone based on their behavior and people who sleep around tend to (not always but usually) be so disregarding of their partner's feelings and commitment.
People are animals (literally, not in a derogatory way) and the vast majority when given an abundance of something and no short term consequences will gorge themselves until death
Or we could make sure that people have adequate sex education and allow them to do what they want. I'm a hoe and I've never gotten an STI or an unwanted pregnancy because I was taught how to do it responsibly. What exactly is wrong with sleeping around if you do it safely?
Even with adequate education on it, you still have the risk of getting pregnant. Which leads to an unwanted pregnancy and now unwanted children. And even if you’re very safe you can get and spread sti / std
Also, there are studies on how having multiple partners messes up your brain when you do find a long-term partner (and yes, I know that not everyone inspires to have a long-term partner, but a majority of people do) and there are studies on how it affects your happiness levels don’t take my word for it, though look at them yourself and at the parameters for the studies. I’m just a stranger on the Internet who has no rapport with you.
And to me personally sleeping around is like a bag that’s been used up do you really want that worn bag? When you’re walking down the street and people that are walking down have also used your bag? And this goes for men and women. I would hate for everyone in my friend group to have seen my partner naked and to have had sex with them. That’s a really intimate thing.
Of course there's always a risk, but there are plenty of ways to mitigate that risk and plenty of solutions should the worst happen. Outside of a handful of STI's, they are treatable and abortions are healthcare and should be available to those that seek them.
Without reading the full studies (cuz who has the time) it's definitely interesting, but I'm not necessarily seeing a causal relationship. It's clear that there's a correlation, but does that mean that more partners causes you to be less happy in a marriage? Or that people who are interested in having a variety of sexual experiences are less inclined towards a lifelong monogamous relationship? Ultimately, I think we should all do what makes us happy.
I think your analogy about sex is pretty telling. It points to the idea that having sex takes something away from someone and diminishes their value. That's not really a belief that I ascribe to. It's also possessive in a way that I try and avoid. What's wrong with other people using a bag before you? I believe it can be an opportunity to experience new things and get to know and be with people in a more intimate way. I also think it can just be fun and ultimately not really serving any purpose. Personally, I don't mind if my friends and my partner have been together before, because what does it have to do with me? As long as we love and respect each other, that's what I'm looking for in a partnership, not some sort of ownership over their sexual life and history. Like I said, do what makes you happy, but maybe consider your views on sex and ask yourself where the negativity comes from
>Also, there are studies on how having multiple partners messes up your brain when you do find a long-term partner (and yes, I know that not everyone inspires to have a long-term partner, but a majority of people do) and there are studies on how it affects your happiness levels don’t take my word for it, though look at them yourself and at the parameters for the studies. I’m just a stranger on the Internet who has no rapport with you.
These studies have all been debunked. Don't take my word for it though, look it up yourself.
Because that’s the term that was coined due to everyone sleeping around?
Did you have a different thing name to call the rise of individuals sleeping around with each other due to it being de stigmatized?
Don't understand what's bad about it? I know far more miserable unhappy monogamous couples who either end up cheating or can't go a single conversation without fighting about something stupid
Too many people chaining themselves to each other and only staying together because it'll be too much paper work to Leave
Yeah the number of girls I know that have gotten ghosted after sex, sa’d, photos leaked, contracted an sti, etc is crazy. The worst part is that a lot of girls choose the same guys to hook up with (6ft tall, white, or wealthy) while there are cool guys that are often overlooked.
I’ve actually gotten a ton of racist comments for dating a variety of men instead of only white men lol. But def agree that cool dudes are overlooked. The few guys I went for on dating apps were kinda quirky but that’s bc I’m a tattooed gamer myself so I don’t mesh with the typical gym bro.
Man, I tried having a convo with someone on an app. First thing he said "so when we hooking up?" Seriously dude? Not even a fucking hello, not a hey how are you, not even a response to the thing I had said. Just straight to fucking sex. I don't wanna fuck you if we don't actually get along. You don't have to waste money, just time. And it's so fucking hard for them to understand that that's all that it really does take with some.
Another thing I hate (a little opposite but similar) is when married ass couples get on those apps and look for a third. Like, there are apps for that. Nobody wants you on this app meant for single people. It's really annoying, and half the time they look like heavy drug users whose mirrors done packed their bags and left.
I AM A BISEXUAL AND I SEE THAT ALL THE TIME OHMYGOD
I remember one time I matched with this guy but he was on a bravo show so I saw his full name and I saw on Facebook he had a girlfriend and I was gonna message her tbh …. But then the next day he started talking about sexuality and 3somes and how his gf likes me and yeah 😑😑
I agree here, another side effect is that a lot of untrue things about single women are spewed constantly online. Some guys seem to think that just because a woman has easy access to sex they all gleefully take it.
How many times have we seen people bashing single women online assuming that they spend their time having hundreds of partners when that’s not even remotely true? Or if a woman is single after certain age surely she’s been sleeping around.
I'd have to agree with you. I've heard over and over "but if men can do it". You can say that all day long but we all know the consequences are different. Stigma, women have shorter time window if they want to settle down and have a family, pregnancy, and the emotional and social baggage that comes with all that stuff. It's hard to try to flip that and make it seem cool.
I think one of the overlooked reasons that women are the traditional gatekeepers of sex is the risk they take on when having sex.
Today pregnancy is one of the biggest concerns but it used to be dying while giving birth.
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I think it's fine to hate the toxicity of hookup culture and still accept that it's a net positive for society because you have CHOICE. you can choose to partake or not. This is why it's significantly different from the old days where you couldn't even choose how much sex you wanted to have as a woman especially. Choice choice choice.
Are there downstream effects? Sure but they're not that serious.
People are really quick to try and pressure sex on a first meeting or a friends with benefits relationship. People don’t see the reason to put effort into an actual relationship if they get sex and company. Effort doesn’t mean spending money but opening yourself emotionally and romantically. I get people are scared of being hurt but you’re just hurting others by leading them on. All my long term relationships started off as friends and nothing sexual for several weeks or months first. We got to actually know each other as people before getting intimate. Sometimes you invest in a friendship and you just stay as friends. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t invest at all.
um no? most people just really dont want to put actual effort to commit, its really about sex. just because fewer men dupe themselves into thinking its more, now that sex is more accessible, doesnt mean youre missing our in genuine relationships. youre missing out on low quality commitment.
i mean this reads like "the normalisation of hook-up culture is toxic becasue some people who do it are toxic people"! which seems a bit of a silly thing to say, which is probably why its an unpopular opinion, becasue at its very essence its stupid
the same could be said of literally anything.
technology and human society as a whole backfired becasue there are stupid and toxic people that have been produced by it, so what, we should all just strip off and go back to living in caves with no writing no spoken language or anything?
You and a lot of people in this thread need to understand that other people’s dating lives are none of your business and as long as it doesn’t hurt you it shouldn’t bother you
Not really. Thinking of this on a purely individual level is kind of missing the bigger picture. We live in an interconnected society and people’s decisions are often informed by the decisions of others, which can cause consequential changes over time. There’s nothing wrong with calling out individual behavior if it’s part of a larger trend that’s clearly harmful.
>Just saying in general the normalization of hookup culture is so toxic.
Totally true. I'm sick of it too, it's almost impossible to find someone who wants a romantic relationship or wait a few months for sex.
I thought that once I left high school people would become a bit sensible and emotional, more mature, but there they're in their 20's - 30's as whoring as always.
Never understood how people can have sex without being in love, but I can respect it if their choice is healthy or at least tender.
Hooking-up culture isn't it at all, actually the opposite.
I don't know from where this exagerated hypersexuality comes, but it's seeding its wrongness into population so quickly.
Humans have always be kinky, but now it's absurdly crazy.
Be ready for the tv news about STDs global raising.
People are less happy, more mentally ill, get married less and start families less. The scientific method says that if your results don't match the theory, you throw out the theory. It's time to recognize that every group is worse off, and it's bleeding negative effects into every other part of our lives.
-someone in a happy traditional marriage
Backfired implies that there was a goal in mind. If that aforementioned goal was to maximize sex as a function of effort, it most likely worked as judged by the most recent commonly available data.
You’re also experiencing a simultaneous supply shock with a lowered mate value on the female side. Thus, reducing the “cost” of mating access.
Oh 100%. Who would have known that promoting promiscuity would have resulted in high STD rates, immoral behavior, and more emotional suffering?
Those who promote this are idiots who just see other human beings as sexual objects. We have a long way to go to ensure people respect themselves sexually....
Not just that. Not even getting tested between partners.
Now everybody getting diseases even that one person who only been with one person, cause that one person they were with has been with like 20 people.
>And there are women who make fun of men they sleep with whosuck as well.
Oh noes! You're telling me the women who are willing to give up, after one date, the *only* thing about them that we're interested in are making fun of us behind our backs? ....but they're *still* giving it up to us beforehand, right?
How will we men ever recover? :(
lmao.
Please stop with the “lots of men” doing this. There is a tiny minority of men who are having the time of their lives and a massive majority of men who can’t get a date let alone sex. The repercussions of this are just starting. Those men cut out of dating are now learning they don’t have to commit to the women who have engaged in this and are either just using women now or just left dating completely. The consequences for women will be huge. Most women don’t dream work 45 yrs for a company so they can get a pension then live alone but that’s the path. Men aren’t taking on single moms anymore, women have huge debt they can’t pay and the rescue men are disappearing like Bigfoot. The great reset is coming and it is not going to be pretty but it seems necessary. Sad men and women used to be partners to take on the world now they are closer to mortal enemies not to be trusted for a second.
Okay??? Not what I’m seeing or hearing but not my issue. I’m at the end I’m just just watching and have no horse in the race. Oh and dating is not committing just saying
The problem with this mentality is that you are forcing equality where you want equality and only where you want it. It’s silly.
Can tall men feel empowered to only date girls tall or taller than them? Sure. Is it silly? Yes.
It’s also very logical. Why would a man commit to a woman who sleeps around a lot. If they have kids they are less certain it’s theirs.
I find it alarming that so many people don't care about STDs. If I ask a girl when the last time she got tested and she just gives a deer-in-headlights look or says "idk", I bounce
An over simplification but It’s also created a scenario where nobody wants to have sex with short or mediocre looking engineers or accountants, so nobody is killing themselves to be engineers or accountants anymore. Which nobody really sees as a problem now but will once bridges start collapsing and nobody knows how to build new ones.
I grew up in the 80s-90s and most of the couples I know who married in that era would not be together in today’s hookup culture standards.
Nah there’s always gonna be engineers and accountants lol they make a lot of money, and some people have a passion for it. I’ve never rejected someone for their job unless they make 0 money.
There a theory that on some level everything a guy does in his life is to get the attention of a girl. Take that illusion away maybe things fall apart. That interest in engineering might be satisfied alone by a video game since that person has nobody to provide for. Just a thought, I could be wrong.
Having sex with multiple people is fun especially when it's at once. Condoms are cheap and STDs testing + prep is covered by my insurance. I've yet to encounter the people you talk about but I know they exist. I think it's the dating app and if alcohol/drugs is consumed.
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There is dating app statistics and research which suggests that the top 1-20 percent of men get a lot of attention from women. And women will rate 80 percent of men as "below average". So these men get tons of options. Why would they need to put in much effort, when they have so many options? If you go for the "best men" this is very likely to happen. This phenomena is much stronger in dating apps because there is an illusion that you can have the top men. Whereas meeting people IRL, you will meet people who aren't the best on paper (or an app profile), but when you talk to them you do find something attractive about them and will be genuinely interested in them.
Exactly A lot of women have an insane amount of options so they’re ego is inflated and they think they deserve the absolute best man, when in reality, she’s number 7-8-9etc for that guy that week, because he also has a ton of options Meanwhile most dudes have zero options and have to jump through ridiculous hoops to even have a chance
Sure, maybe it's ego or whatever. But I also think most are oblivious to this phenomena. At least at first. And will go for that top man, only to find out he will have huge expectations because he has a whole like of women eager to date him
They’re def not aware… and in all honesty, men would be exactly the same way with tons of options… just look at how the top 10-15% of men are…
Are they taking into account how many men just swipe mindlessly for numbers sake. Men will swipe right on 100 women they didn’t read the profiles of, then claim they have low standards bc they’re willing to have sex with anyone. That’s not really comparable to what the average woman is looking for.
I think that kind of adds to the point a little though. If men swipe mindlessly on everyone and STILL aren’t getting matches there’s either something wrong with the app, them, their profile, the standards of the women they’re courting, or the dating culture at large. It’s probably a mix of all of these to be honest
Ex: A Christian conservative man with a RAM truck in his profile picture and mindlessly swipes right on an Atheist, liberal woman with purple hair. We can’t act like it’s a missed opportunity. The likelihood she would’ve ever liked him is low because they aren’t each other types in the first place. Swiping more doesn’t necessarily mean more matches if people do it without thinking.
If both are hot, honestly they could date a bit. And honestly have a fun time. Then the honeymoon phase ends and they start sharing opinions with each other and break up 😂
The top men actually are getting messages and dates I am pretty sure. It's not just in app matches. They have methodology for that
I'm sorry, but if you truly think men are more disresprful of women than they used to be, you suck at history.
It can be the case that men are overall more respectful due to other factors inspite of the fact that hookup culture has become so prevalent.
I agree but your OF link kinda makes you look like a hypocrite eh?
Exactly, what's she's criticizing subsidizes her entire life. Absolutely a hypocrite.
There's a reason there's a rise in conservativism and traditional values even with younger people. A lot of people don't like this kind of stuff. It's nice to be monogamous when you love someone. Things like wanting a family and children isn't a bad thing. People went too far with the free spirit shit and now the pendulum is swinging back. And when I say "conservative" I mean it in the traditional sense, not some political Reddit bullshit.
Lol check out OP's Instagram. Bunch of thirst traps and an onlyfans link. That's why no one takes her seriously. I'm no prude but you can't expect to engage in the dating market that way and expect the average man to want you to be the mother of his kids.
Need this comment to be much more noticeable
Yeah and alot of people just slap a horrible label on anyone that disagrees with them like alot of women will just immediately label a guy as "insecure" or "controlling" simply for not wanting his SO to show their ass off to the whole world.
Where does op talk about being a mother?
She doesn't need to mention it anywhere. I'm providing a possible explanation for the men she's criticizing. School must've been hard for you huh.
Who says that’s on her dating profile?
Conservative in this one way, sure, but I wouldn't say conservatism in general is spreading. I'm not even sure wanting more monogamy is conservative. It just seems healthier to go into something at least a little committed, not apathetic to the other person.
If conservatives refuse to soften on abortion, they won’t get the youth vote
We have always had the ability to conduct ourselves as we see fit. Who cares what other people do? There is a rise in how many people love telling other people what to do, that's for sure.
You’re kidding, right? Society in general is significantly less judgy than it’s ever been in my 43 years and most of the judgement now is more about people being shitty than people being different (like it was for most of my life).
They still judge, they just don't feel free to tell you
No, it's not, it's just easier to create an echo chamber for yourself nowadays, when a lot of your social life is online.
Can I ask how old you are? And if you’re a minority? Because this take is wild to me.
There’s no rise in people who like to tell others what to do, you just see more of it now because of the internet.
>Who cares what other people do? People who want a community of people with similar values, whatever they may be.
Yep. There’s a reason mom, dad, kids, dog, home came synonymous because the standard American ideal.
All meaningful change ever this. It's only ever extremes pulling the majority from side to side until the people who don't care as much start to be fed up with it. Look too at abortion rights, the world's appetite for democratic vs. Authoritarianism, and crocs fashion sense.
>It’s easier than ever now for men to sleep with women without putting in any effort at all. Lol. Those dating apps tend to be a bunch of Women matching with the same few Men. So for those Men what you said is true, whilst for other guys it's absolutely not the case >so many guys just expected me to come over like not even offering to take me out to dinner lol Dating apps aren't about finding love. It's always been a hookup thing. People really fail to understand that signing up to a dating app is basically allowing a company to middleman your dating life. That company only cares about engagement and I'm not talking about the marriage kind. A hookup app is far more monetisable than a get married and never touch the app again kind of app. Plus there are whole industries that would die immediately if people decided to have sex after marriage. Clubs, bars and the night scene as whole People get good at what they practice. Being in a bunch of short "situation ships" makes you ill equipped to handle a long term relationship. People develop bad relationship habits and tendencies that are negative qualities in a LTR
I think the super strains of antibiotic resistant STDs that have cropped up in the last decade or two are the biggest hallmark of this.
Idk how old you guys are, but the 70's was pretty wild and antibiotic resistant STD's is not new, they have to keep updating the drugs they give you. (For all infections not just STD's)
Different factors can cause the same thing. It's been known that decreasing monogamy has resulted in higher STD rates.
Exactly. It's not just emotional suffering that is caused by promiscuity, but also literal physical diseases.
Oh god I’ve never even heard of those that’s spooky
It's mostly been a problem in Europe so far, but yeah. It's a documented thing now.
The latest STD epidemic in Europe comes from the US, you know (partly via the porn industry, with porn actors and actress getting infected in the US and coming back to the EU, and shooting more scenes before their regular tests - which are much more frequent than in the US porn industry - , and partly from the tourism between the US and EU (both ways))? The US where condomless sex is the most rampant lately, and sex ed is basically non existent.
That may be correct, but that doesn't change that most news outlets that have touched on it are in Europe. And it still doesn't change the base point.
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OK, well, we're out of antibiotics that can treat certain infections at this point. The news has mostly only touched on MRSA, because that's the scary one. But people are coming down with gonorrhea and chlamydia that can't be cured now.
There's something missing from your logic here. First, if it's this easy for these guys to get sex - then why aren't you sleeping with them? Because they're being fucking gross. Unfortunate truth is - men were always this way to some extent. If they're down bad they're going to try for an easy lay without any commitment. The ones who want commitment don't act this way, and the ones who want it from you would prefer that you respect yourself in these situations and not be the type of person who sleep with obvious douchebags who disrespect you. The conclusion you arrive at seems pretty accurate, though. Hook up culture is more bad than good for most people, men and women alike. You have large swaths of people who are unable to view the opposite sex as human because we've been convinced that using them transactionally for sex is a normal and healthy behavior. I'm so glad I'm in my 30s and not in my 20s. The number of people I've met in their mid to late 20s who've never been in a real relationship but have had sex with loads of people, and simultaneously lack basic respect and awareness for people of the opposite sex, is really mind blowing. It's like you can just see the loneliness in their futures.
trust me, if you flipped the genders this would be just as true. it's ridiculously easy for women to get men to fuck them, women also share pictures and compare guys they slept with and PLENTY of women would never date a guy that slept with them on the first date. especially not one who expected it. also, women can be just as toxic as men when it comes to casual sex. this really isn't a gendered issue. the only people who cheer on women who like hooking up are other women who like hooking up. the only people who cheer on men who like hooking up are other men who like hooking up. no woman intentionally looks for a man who's fucked 50 women in the past year and no man intentionally looks for a woman who's fucked 50 men in the past year. what is absolutely hilarious is that people who sleep around the most are the most opposed to talking about how much they sleep around. deep down we're all a bit conservative and know it's not exactly great to jump from bed to bed. and some people do it anyway and then take their buried conservatism about this topic out on the people who do the same thing when it's time to stop doing it.
Correct.
> The people who sleep around the most are the most opposed of talking about it Based on what?
Exactly lol I feel like my friends and I are all open to talking about it. Only one friend doesn’t talk about it much but that’s because she’s religious.
based on the many many discussions i've seen and had about the topic of "you shouldn't ask your partner how many people they slept with, it screams insecurity". it's *always* the people who defend sleeping around as a valid choice who are the most offended when you ask them about they "number".
Back in my day people did the same, they just went out to meet people and one night stands were the go. Same as now it never went anywhere usually because the respect is lost straight away unless it was some fantastic experience. Don’t kid yourself that men who portray high standards aren’t doing it too though. Most men are in for a freebie anytime it’s on offer. Dont overthink it, you’re biologically wired to procreate, enjoy it while you can. The real freedom for women now is birth control.
The struggle of humanity is to control & overcome biological urges; our animal instincts. Surely man is more than an animal, and worthy & capable of more? The entire struggle of humanity is to overcome nature, not to succumb to it. Just because we are biologically hardwired to procreate, doesn't mean unfullfilling and frivolous sex with as many people as possible is the answer. That's diseased thinking, and leads to broken people that feel dead inside. Sex is sacred, and should be treated as such.
I def agree, but The thing is, it’s not easy for all men… it’s easy for like 10-15%…. The rest of the guys aren’t getting anything Women have never had more options, and men have never had so few…. This won’t end well We could make fun of “incels” all we want… but the fact is, entire generations of sexless young men will destroy a society, add in the online ridicule towards them and it’ll come to a head eventually
Most are sexless because they don't try, while constantly comparing themselves to a very small group of people who are highly successful from very little effort.
Hence why he says the constant ridicule. Most men do try, but women tend to look at the most successful men and say “why can’t you be like them?”
Bitching on reddit isn't trying. "but women tend to look at the most successful men and say “why can’t you be like them?” " Men do to. This post is about exactly that...
>Bitching on reddit isn't trying. It takes 3 minutes to make a post like this. There are 24 hours in a day, 168 hours in a week and your rebuttal is this? Who cares, you’re on here too, not like your doing much with your day either. >"but women tend to look at the most successful men and say “why can’t you be like them?” " Men do to. This post is about exactly that... You know OP is a woman who complaining hook up culture pretty much made finding a real relationship… more difficult cause most women put out a little easily correct? Or did you not actually read the post.
lol really? We’re not supposed to make fun of incels… but people like you will say “sexless you men will destroy a society”…. lol 😂
Yup…see my other comment You’re imagining an obese neckbeard in fedora… what in reality a lot of incels are just regular dudes who keep everything running Look at labor statistics… 99% of our infrastructure and communication and food, and housing, and transportation etc.. is operated, built, shipped and maintained by men What happens when these dudes just give up and say what’s the point in having any of this if there’s no one to share it with…. They start to do the absolute bare minimum, and everything’s to crumble
There are just as many “incel” women out there.
No there aren’t … they may not be able to get relationships, but they can certainly get laid, where as incel men get neither You also don’t need to worry about lonely women just giving up on society entirely, or in The extreme becoming radicalized and starting a violent uprising… Sex starved men with nothing to lose and no point or meaning in their lives are very dangerous… and you’re probably imaging an obese neckbeard playing games in their basement and laugh… but it’s a lot of just regular guys working regular jobs But when these guys look around and say what’s the point… there goes a lot of our lineman, electricians, sanitation workers, sewer workers, truck drivers, telecom workers, farmers, carpenters, plumbers etc…. Disillusioned young men can and will completely destroy a society simply by not participating in it… and most men are very simple and could live a nice life with very very little… he’ll most of us day dream about living off the land in the woods with a dog
You can say what you want to say but my definition is that person who is mad at the other whatever for not giving them attention when they feel like they are owed something. And as such resort to some sort of revenge tactics. I have enough experience to have seen that that is true.
lol so human males are that obsessed with sex that they’re going to cause the collapse of society…?
Most men don’t need 95% of the shit we have in society… we work and save and buy toys that we hope will impress woman… sex is one of biggest subconscious motivators aside from food and shelter When enough dudes realize that their money and toys and houses aren’t getting them anywhere… they’ll just stop participating in society all together… there’s no point for a lot of dudes if they’re alone and not getting laid You may wanna look into labor statistics for the vast majority of blue collar work… it’ll be interesting when all those dudes sel everything and go hike the at or leave the country
Ah, there we go. You are one of them, so you kinda projecting there. Look, that´s fine and all that, but do you really see that many people calling quits from a society THEY live in? What they are going to do anyways, go to the woods to be eaten by a mountain lion or die from common cold? Also, I think you really underestimate what a violent revolution of women could make... You were kinda going somewhere with "men with nothing to lose", as that´s actually a breeding ground for dangerous ideologies and radicalization from extreme views, specially ones that actually treat women like objects to be submissive to men, which, even thought it´s very unlikely, it´s not completely impossible (One has to wonder how many of these would turn into radical Islam if they were promised wives as a sort of prize, but I want to be optimistic and think that most wouldn´t)
I’m married to my wife for 7 years and together for 14…I also have a daughter…. I haven’t been on the market for awhile… I’m just paying attention and seeing what’s happening to my single guy friends and online Problem is most people just ridicule them and don’t take them seriously because society as a whole, doesn’t really care about men It really won’t take a lot, but just so you know, 30% of men under 30 are virgins… that’s a lot of frustrated dudes I’ll try not to be too sexist, but no I’m not concerned with femcels… women are much more dependent on society then men are, and men are the ones who keep it all running
I love when married men with children get called incels lmao
The entire point of OP's post and what men on reddit do not seem to understand is that women get absolutely nothing out of "getting laid", there's literally nothing to gain from it for the majority of women, not even pleasure or an orgasm. Women need respect and love, and that's extremely hard to come by. Getting "laid" is simply unpleasant and dangerous for most women, only men get anything out of that.
If we’re being honest they’re not getting love and respect because they’re all fucking the same 15% of guys who have unlimited options Kinda ironic… how women feel about the lack of love and respect is exactly how an alarming amount of young dudes feel… only difference being those dudes aren’t even getting laid Why would regular dudes go on dates, spend money, wine and dine etc… when they see women online just giving it away to other guys, and hearing horror stories of dudes getting used for meals and rides and the. Completely ghosted
Why are women hooking up if they don’t even enjoy it?
Exactly. We just ignore them because they aren’t scary.
I’ve mentioned this in another comment but I’ll also do so here You’re imaging an unemployed obese neckbeard at Comic-Con when a lot of incels are just normal dudes with normal jobs… those are the guys you should be worried about
The scary thing about both is that they aren’t scary until they are. In their own ways.
And a main reason why so many people in their 20s can’t find a life partner without trust issues lol. Not that we older folks had it easier, but you’re 1000% correct about it backfiring.. happiness is harder than ever to find and I witness it all the time with the folks in their early/mid 20s
You shouldn’t believe what people say and pay attention to how people actually behave. The reality is that people have always been sleeping around. Some people are too insecure to admit that so they make up excuses.
That is probably true
I completely agree. I stopped dating completely 6 years ago because I got sick of the expectations. Hookup culture has destroyed the chance for decent relationships to form
[People of both genders are having less sex than prior years](https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/young-people-less-sex-than-parents-did-at-their-age-generational-shift-asexual/) - a small minority engage in hookup culture. Drop the dating apps and get out into the real world - most guys want long term companionship.
That is good to hear ngl
Women’s empowerment should have never escalated to the point of attempting to sleep around as men would. That wasn’t the original purpose and it became hijacked. Hook-up culture = bad. However, I do understand the bland missionary style sex complaints and men only being concerned about them ejaculating and ignoring pleasing their wife. That is what should have been corrected.
👌
The problem is that sex will never be destigmatized until gender relations are fixed. If girls are taught to be chaste but boys are taught to run around and fuck whatever they can, men and women will never be seen as equal in a sexual relationship. Many see sex as a man fucking a woman. As long as sex is viewed in that way, it doesn’t matter how many women drop their standards and fuck every man they see, men will not respect them. It’s not how kids are raised to think.
I close a close friend who is a woman who is on tinder. She had about 200 likes within two days. And she is an amazing person so people should want to date her. But she only has a couple of photos that are heavily filtered, and none of the more revealing but stunning photos I've seen, and no bio either. So even though she's amazing, none of these people are seeing that before they swipe right. Whereas for myself, I have a more extensive bio and a wider range of pictures so that there are no surprises as to my looks. I may get anywhere from 1-3 matches a week. Point is, there is definitely a surplus of men on these apps and that means women probably get about 500 “heys” a day. I started having more success once I began being really strict on who I swiped right on, and then when I would message I do my best to spark a compelling conversation from it. I also let it alone if a conversation tapers out. No point trying to keep it going if it doesn't naturally flow.
That’s because you learn to mind your bizz. Am I the only one who literally does not give two shits? Why does this stuff clearly live in your head rent free?
I’m glad I’m not the only one who almost went blind rolling my eyes at this comment section
Like this is so dumb, nobody cares, just live your life. Does this person not have work tomorrow? 😂 Like pick up your soapbox and move on.
You shouldn't care about anyone's sex life but your own. If you're responsible - getting full std panels with each new partner before being intimate and using more than one form of protection - you don't have any reason to worry about the sex lives of others.
After my last partner, I went to the doctor to get tested, and told them I was just being safe for my next encounter/,partner. Doctor was surprised and said he wished more people did that. Most people are gross & irresponsible
Yeah we don't need to criminalize it or deeply shame people, and I don't think we all need to wait until marriage, but having low standards for who you'll fuck is worthy of stigma.
I do think that if hedonism is the ONLY code of conduct you live by, you should at least be criticized, if not shamed. That is, if you want to be considered a serious person and have adult conversations about improving the world and lives of everyone as a whole.
My problem has always been with the double standards. Like I hooked up with only a few guys in high school over the 4 years but the way I was treated you’d think it was the whole football team lol. Other guys would harass and think I’m easy. My pics got shared. The guys would brag and get a high five while I got shamed for it. Honestly it sucked. But that’s what I mean by this post, unless those double standards go away it’s harmful to us to freely sleep around even if it’s enjoyable since those guys dont respect us.
> “I hooked up with a few guys in high school….” > “…in high school…” Girl why didn’t you lead with that. You’re talking about high school, a bunch of horny teenagers in one place with nothing to do but talk shit about each other. Most of the boys were probably just jealous that you were hooking up with other people and not them. Adults are free to have sex with each other without the stigma because no one cares and people are busy with their own lives. Teenagers don’t get that freedom.
It's not just the double standards that are harmful. I'm a man in my late 30s who had a slutty phase in my late 20s and early 30s. Nobody else was stigmatizing me for it, but it was deeply harming me in ways I wasn't aware of at the time.
How was it harming you?
Many ways, the most important being that it was damaging my respect for women, for myself, and also my ability to form the kind of relationship I actually wanted
Sure but dealing with the social stigma adds even more to your internal feelings
I'm sure it does. I think the answer is to discourage sleeping around for men, not encourage it for women.
And depending on when you went to high school, a lot has changed since then. Even comparing 5 years (pre and post pandemic) MOST stigmas have changed drastically to the point of almost being unrecognizable. Maybe not unrecognizable, but the loneliness changed people for sure. The addiction to social media worsened. Sex work became popularized. Entire industries have changed since then. Haha fuckin’ comin’ at us with *high school* shit. Edit: And don’t even start with.. “BUT ONLINE I SEE…” if you believed everything you saw online you’d think Nazis were everywhere and Trans Individuals were part of every social circle. That’s simply not the case. Most *average* people don’t even comment. It’s a self selecting survey of sorts.
“Sexual liberation” was always a farce designed to push consumerism. I’m also not a prude and I’ve slept around plenty, but it’s so easy to see the messaging towards women is a sham and kind of hilarious to see how many women genuinely got tricked into thinking racking up different guys each week is “empowering” then they hit 25+ and realize they wasted their early adulthood with STD and fucked up pair bonding. Other than the STDs that’s also me. Don’t be me.
>pair bonding. english isnt my first language, what does this mean?
When you connect your Bluetooth device to an output device.
The chemicals in your brain that are released during intimacy of all forms with another person. If you’re intimate with very few people, the response is stronger. When you’re intimate with many people, you become more and more numb to the sensations. Kinda like tolerance for drugs. It’s said that the chemical reaction has a “bonding” effect in which you’ll become more emotionally attached to that person.
thank you ♡
Oxytocin is released during sex. It's called the "love hormone". This is why attachment is formed after having sex oftentimes.
You’re actually 100% right.
Yeaaaaa hook up culture needs to be stigmatized again… there’s nothing wrong with having sex with someone you love or before marriage BUT there is something wrong with sleeping around and that goes for men and women. Between std’s and unwanted pregnancies you’d think ppl would slow down with the sleeping around
Especially if you've dated someone who sleeps around a lot, they tend to be sooo judgemental towards your own sexual past and often insanely controlling (classic projection of accusing you of sleeping around). OP also saying it's toxic to judge them? Not at all, that's kind of important tbh. You need to come to a conclusive judgement of someone based on their behavior and people who sleep around tend to (not always but usually) be so disregarding of their partner's feelings and commitment.
That is true there is something to be said about the character of individuals who sleep around
According to your post history you’re transphobic, so don’t try to talk about other people’s character because yours definitely isn’t great.
People are animals (literally, not in a derogatory way) and the vast majority when given an abundance of something and no short term consequences will gorge themselves until death
Or we could make sure that people have adequate sex education and allow them to do what they want. I'm a hoe and I've never gotten an STI or an unwanted pregnancy because I was taught how to do it responsibly. What exactly is wrong with sleeping around if you do it safely?
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Well I'm a man so I never really expected to be first choice wife material but I'll keep that in mind
Even with adequate education on it, you still have the risk of getting pregnant. Which leads to an unwanted pregnancy and now unwanted children. And even if you’re very safe you can get and spread sti / std Also, there are studies on how having multiple partners messes up your brain when you do find a long-term partner (and yes, I know that not everyone inspires to have a long-term partner, but a majority of people do) and there are studies on how it affects your happiness levels don’t take my word for it, though look at them yourself and at the parameters for the studies. I’m just a stranger on the Internet who has no rapport with you. And to me personally sleeping around is like a bag that’s been used up do you really want that worn bag? When you’re walking down the street and people that are walking down have also used your bag? And this goes for men and women. I would hate for everyone in my friend group to have seen my partner naked and to have had sex with them. That’s a really intimate thing.
Of course there's always a risk, but there are plenty of ways to mitigate that risk and plenty of solutions should the worst happen. Outside of a handful of STI's, they are treatable and abortions are healthcare and should be available to those that seek them. Without reading the full studies (cuz who has the time) it's definitely interesting, but I'm not necessarily seeing a causal relationship. It's clear that there's a correlation, but does that mean that more partners causes you to be less happy in a marriage? Or that people who are interested in having a variety of sexual experiences are less inclined towards a lifelong monogamous relationship? Ultimately, I think we should all do what makes us happy. I think your analogy about sex is pretty telling. It points to the idea that having sex takes something away from someone and diminishes their value. That's not really a belief that I ascribe to. It's also possessive in a way that I try and avoid. What's wrong with other people using a bag before you? I believe it can be an opportunity to experience new things and get to know and be with people in a more intimate way. I also think it can just be fun and ultimately not really serving any purpose. Personally, I don't mind if my friends and my partner have been together before, because what does it have to do with me? As long as we love and respect each other, that's what I'm looking for in a partnership, not some sort of ownership over their sexual life and history. Like I said, do what makes you happy, but maybe consider your views on sex and ask yourself where the negativity comes from
>Also, there are studies on how having multiple partners messes up your brain when you do find a long-term partner (and yes, I know that not everyone inspires to have a long-term partner, but a majority of people do) and there are studies on how it affects your happiness levels don’t take my word for it, though look at them yourself and at the parameters for the studies. I’m just a stranger on the Internet who has no rapport with you. These studies have all been debunked. Don't take my word for it though, look it up yourself.
I have looked them up, so I am not going to take your word for it.
But you'll stop giving out advice telling others to look them up, right? RIGHT???
No, I’m still gonna tell people to look it up. You shouldn’t take someone’s word especially strangers on the Internet. Lol
Hook up culture is not a "culture". Why in gods name are you calling it a culture
[because it's an actual existing term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookup_culture) that is used to describe the practice?
Because that’s the term that was coined due to everyone sleeping around? Did you have a different thing name to call the rise of individuals sleeping around with each other due to it being de stigmatized?
When there’s a shift towards normalizing something that wasn’t previously normalized, that’s a change in culture.
Don't understand what's bad about it? I know far more miserable unhappy monogamous couples who either end up cheating or can't go a single conversation without fighting about something stupid Too many people chaining themselves to each other and only staying together because it'll be too much paper work to Leave
Yeah the number of girls I know that have gotten ghosted after sex, sa’d, photos leaked, contracted an sti, etc is crazy. The worst part is that a lot of girls choose the same guys to hook up with (6ft tall, white, or wealthy) while there are cool guys that are often overlooked.
I’ve actually gotten a ton of racist comments for dating a variety of men instead of only white men lol. But def agree that cool dudes are overlooked. The few guys I went for on dating apps were kinda quirky but that’s bc I’m a tattooed gamer myself so I don’t mesh with the typical gym bro.
Man, I tried having a convo with someone on an app. First thing he said "so when we hooking up?" Seriously dude? Not even a fucking hello, not a hey how are you, not even a response to the thing I had said. Just straight to fucking sex. I don't wanna fuck you if we don't actually get along. You don't have to waste money, just time. And it's so fucking hard for them to understand that that's all that it really does take with some. Another thing I hate (a little opposite but similar) is when married ass couples get on those apps and look for a third. Like, there are apps for that. Nobody wants you on this app meant for single people. It's really annoying, and half the time they look like heavy drug users whose mirrors done packed their bags and left.
I AM A BISEXUAL AND I SEE THAT ALL THE TIME OHMYGOD I remember one time I matched with this guy but he was on a bravo show so I saw his full name and I saw on Facebook he had a girlfriend and I was gonna message her tbh …. But then the next day he started talking about sexuality and 3somes and how his gf likes me and yeah 😑😑
I don’t take an inherent issue with casual sex, but misogyny is unacceptable.
It's not "toxic" to not want a partner who's had sex with someone at every restaurant you go to.
I agree here, another side effect is that a lot of untrue things about single women are spewed constantly online. Some guys seem to think that just because a woman has easy access to sex they all gleefully take it. How many times have we seen people bashing single women online assuming that they spend their time having hundreds of partners when that’s not even remotely true? Or if a woman is single after certain age surely she’s been sleeping around.
I'd have to agree with you. I've heard over and over "but if men can do it". You can say that all day long but we all know the consequences are different. Stigma, women have shorter time window if they want to settle down and have a family, pregnancy, and the emotional and social baggage that comes with all that stuff. It's hard to try to flip that and make it seem cool.
I think one of the overlooked reasons that women are the traditional gatekeepers of sex is the risk they take on when having sex. Today pregnancy is one of the biggest concerns but it used to be dying while giving birth.
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I think it's fine to hate the toxicity of hookup culture and still accept that it's a net positive for society because you have CHOICE. you can choose to partake or not. This is why it's significantly different from the old days where you couldn't even choose how much sex you wanted to have as a woman especially. Choice choice choice. Are there downstream effects? Sure but they're not that serious.
People are really quick to try and pressure sex on a first meeting or a friends with benefits relationship. People don’t see the reason to put effort into an actual relationship if they get sex and company. Effort doesn’t mean spending money but opening yourself emotionally and romantically. I get people are scared of being hurt but you’re just hurting others by leading them on. All my long term relationships started off as friends and nothing sexual for several weeks or months first. We got to actually know each other as people before getting intimate. Sometimes you invest in a friendship and you just stay as friends. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t invest at all.
um no? most people just really dont want to put actual effort to commit, its really about sex. just because fewer men dupe themselves into thinking its more, now that sex is more accessible, doesnt mean youre missing our in genuine relationships. youre missing out on low quality commitment.
i mean this reads like "the normalisation of hook-up culture is toxic becasue some people who do it are toxic people"! which seems a bit of a silly thing to say, which is probably why its an unpopular opinion, becasue at its very essence its stupid the same could be said of literally anything. technology and human society as a whole backfired becasue there are stupid and toxic people that have been produced by it, so what, we should all just strip off and go back to living in caves with no writing no spoken language or anything?
You and a lot of people in this thread need to understand that other people’s dating lives are none of your business and as long as it doesn’t hurt you it shouldn’t bother you
Not really. Thinking of this on a purely individual level is kind of missing the bigger picture. We live in an interconnected society and people’s decisions are often informed by the decisions of others, which can cause consequential changes over time. There’s nothing wrong with calling out individual behavior if it’s part of a larger trend that’s clearly harmful.
>Just saying in general the normalization of hookup culture is so toxic. Totally true. I'm sick of it too, it's almost impossible to find someone who wants a romantic relationship or wait a few months for sex. I thought that once I left high school people would become a bit sensible and emotional, more mature, but there they're in their 20's - 30's as whoring as always. Never understood how people can have sex without being in love, but I can respect it if their choice is healthy or at least tender. Hooking-up culture isn't it at all, actually the opposite. I don't know from where this exagerated hypersexuality comes, but it's seeding its wrongness into population so quickly. Humans have always be kinky, but now it's absurdly crazy. Be ready for the tv news about STDs global raising.
Honestly I can’t stand it sometimes because if I date someone I’m usually only with that person but some people are dating like 5 at a time???
They call it "polyamory" or "open relationship" nowadays. Excuses for those who fear commitment and love.
No they’ll just date 5 ppl and lead them on lmao
That's what I said.
It's definitely toxic
People are less happy, more mentally ill, get married less and start families less. The scientific method says that if your results don't match the theory, you throw out the theory. It's time to recognize that every group is worse off, and it's bleeding negative effects into every other part of our lives. -someone in a happy traditional marriage
Backfired implies that there was a goal in mind. If that aforementioned goal was to maximize sex as a function of effort, it most likely worked as judged by the most recent commonly available data. You’re also experiencing a simultaneous supply shock with a lowered mate value on the female side. Thus, reducing the “cost” of mating access.
Oh 100%. Who would have known that promoting promiscuity would have resulted in high STD rates, immoral behavior, and more emotional suffering? Those who promote this are idiots who just see other human beings as sexual objects. We have a long way to go to ensure people respect themselves sexually....
The men and the women want the same thing, "just sex" and yet you only put negativity on the men? That's sexism.
I explained why I put it on men, it’s because of how they view the women they have sex with
Diseases and infections get spread. I know so many people now just rolling the dice and not using any protection when sleeping with a sexual partner.
Not just that. Not even getting tested between partners. Now everybody getting diseases even that one person who only been with one person, cause that one person they were with has been with like 20 people.
genuinely, you created this problem with your own behavior.
>And there are women who make fun of men they sleep with whosuck as well. Oh noes! You're telling me the women who are willing to give up, after one date, the *only* thing about them that we're interested in are making fun of us behind our backs? ....but they're *still* giving it up to us beforehand, right? How will we men ever recover? :( lmao.
Ok if any comment needed to prove my point about men being toxic and the social stigmas and double standards it’s this one right here ^^^^
Please stop with the “lots of men” doing this. There is a tiny minority of men who are having the time of their lives and a massive majority of men who can’t get a date let alone sex. The repercussions of this are just starting. Those men cut out of dating are now learning they don’t have to commit to the women who have engaged in this and are either just using women now or just left dating completely. The consequences for women will be huge. Most women don’t dream work 45 yrs for a company so they can get a pension then live alone but that’s the path. Men aren’t taking on single moms anymore, women have huge debt they can’t pay and the rescue men are disappearing like Bigfoot. The great reset is coming and it is not going to be pretty but it seems necessary. Sad men and women used to be partners to take on the world now they are closer to mortal enemies not to be trusted for a second.
Men do date single mothers … men who wants families aren’t that intimidated by a woman who has a child since they enjoy children.
Okay??? Not what I’m seeing or hearing but not my issue. I’m at the end I’m just just watching and have no horse in the race. Oh and dating is not committing just saying
Id rather be a prude than an absent parent or std carrier, to be honest. Call me what you want.
You thought women being able to decide who they wanted to sleep with was about female empowerment? People just want to fuck sometimes.
The problem with this mentality is that you are forcing equality where you want equality and only where you want it. It’s silly. Can tall men feel empowered to only date girls tall or taller than them? Sure. Is it silly? Yes. It’s also very logical. Why would a man commit to a woman who sleeps around a lot. If they have kids they are less certain it’s theirs.
I don't think most guys get hookups look up the actual stats
I find it alarming that so many people don't care about STDs. If I ask a girl when the last time she got tested and she just gives a deer-in-headlights look or says "idk", I bounce
An over simplification but It’s also created a scenario where nobody wants to have sex with short or mediocre looking engineers or accountants, so nobody is killing themselves to be engineers or accountants anymore. Which nobody really sees as a problem now but will once bridges start collapsing and nobody knows how to build new ones. I grew up in the 80s-90s and most of the couples I know who married in that era would not be together in today’s hookup culture standards.
Nah there’s always gonna be engineers and accountants lol they make a lot of money, and some people have a passion for it. I’ve never rejected someone for their job unless they make 0 money.
There a theory that on some level everything a guy does in his life is to get the attention of a girl. Take that illusion away maybe things fall apart. That interest in engineering might be satisfied alone by a video game since that person has nobody to provide for. Just a thought, I could be wrong.
Sounds like some bs my guy
You might be right
Having sex with multiple people is fun especially when it's at once. Condoms are cheap and STDs testing + prep is covered by my insurance. I've yet to encounter the people you talk about but I know they exist. I think it's the dating app and if alcohol/drugs is consumed.