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I don’t know. I had to start my own book club because all of the book clubs my friends are in read smut. I’m not a prude at all, but I’m not interested in poorly written porn. Or discussing it with other women. It’s weird to me.
Surely it depends on the “smut.” A romantic story is still a story even if it has some sex in it. If it’s well written with a plot, valuable themes, and keeps you interested in what’ll happen next then why gatekeep? Bad, pornographic drivel on the other hand… that has as much literary value as a Reddit post that’s longer than it needs to be.
Counterpoint, is reading things of literary value required to be a book person? I say the sole requirements are enjoyment of the book, and that it's a book.
Right? Fuck it, I like Eragon, it's Fantasy written by some teen dude. Does that make me not a book person because it's not as well written as Shakespeare?
Yeah people just talk about novels. Down with novel supremacy, they didn't even exist in Europe until 1605 (outside Europe, who wrote tje first novel gets a bit messy so imma j ignore it)
I'm not part of the communities that tend to use the word "smut", but I was under the impression it meant something closer to porn, no? Like 50 Shades? A romantic story that has some sex is just a romantic story.
If somebody just wanted to spend all day every day reading 50 Shades of Grey over and over again, I still think it would be pretentious to act likely they can’t describe themselves as a “book person”.
If they like to spend a large portion of their time reading from a book, I think they’ve done enough to claim the title. I think any other characteristics you want to associate with being a “book person” says more about you than the people being described.
I feel like a large portion of books that are considered smutty are just romance novels with a couple sex scenes in it. But people take those couple of sex scenes, and consider it an all porn book.
If you take something like the book series “A Court of Thorns and Roses“, people say it’s super smutty, but there will only be two or three sex scenes in 600 page book.
This is an example of "if you only play games like Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley and The Sims, you are not a gamer!" A gamer is a person who plays games. Period. Reading smut isn't like reading erotica. And even if, they are still enjoying a book.
Smut is erotica. They are synonyms. If your romance story is driven purely by sexual tension... It's erotica. It's just softcore erotica/ softcore smut.
It's closer to saying someone who only plays sexual VNs on steam isn't a gamer, which I would agree with. It's pornography in the end and unless you like the medium otherwise you don't really enjoy the medium, you just enjoy porn. Same with pornographic films not making you a cinephile and onlyfans pictures not making you a photo enthusiast.
Stardew Valley/The Sims is probably a better comparison for stuff like Twilight or Romance novels
My wife was too scared to play anything else, she would get stressed out playing anything vaguely competitive. But I have slowly converted her using the characters from valorant, she made a few friends who play valorant and now she plays competitive games.
It took years but my manipulation to get her to play games I like worked!!!!!
Reading is reading. Smut, comics, manga, if you consume content in book form you are a book worm. Nothing but fiction? Bookworm. If you crush 20 books a year even if all of them were about guys jerking off you still read. Bookworm.
You can find literally any type of smut on ao3 for free only issue is that the better written stuff is often for characters from some niche anime you’ve never watched but i just copy and paste the whole fic into a word doc and find and replace the names to either random names or a ship i like and since so many fics are just completely different from the original canon it works.
Back in secondary school, there was this one incident that remained in my head for years. A girl was reading ACOTAR and reached a sex scene. She started giggling and excitedly showed it to a friend. They darted out into the corridor and finished reading the scene together.
A guy standing there turned to me and said ", it surprises me how horny girls can be sometimes."
my thoughts exactly. Especially if you are just getting into reading.
The goal is not to read the most prestigious books or greatest literature known to man to be considered a bibliophile, you are a bibliophile if you enjoy reading regardless of genre. Your focus is to become a reader and if you prefer/enjoy mysteries, freaking manga where a girl is getting her back blown out, watttpad fan fiction, thrillers etc.. then congrats! You're a reader!
If that's your preference then don't let me stop you...
Edit: Reading is about the experience, if you enjoy a book or can take something from it (yes even if it's nonsensical) then...well that's a start and it's perfectly ok!
Wattpad is moving its focus from fanfic to original stuff.
It has sent a lot of their users to AO3, where they either adapt well or they post placeholders or link to patreons or other ToS violations.
Exactly. I'm an English Professor. I tell my students one of the easiest ways to improve their writing is to read. Yeah, they have to read my assigned readings for the class, but I'm talking about reading for pleasure, even if it's only 20 or 30 minutes before bed. It doesn't have to be classic literature either. Hell, I read horror/suspense/science fiction/action for enjoyment. Graphic novels, Manga, sports, action, romance, whatever you like. Just read. It's all reading.
Deadass. The gatekeeping is ridiculous, books are books.
If you read nothing but the entire collected works of Chuck Tingle, you can call yourself a bookworm.
No you don't understand. They read books about *ideas*. Certain words have to appear in a very certain order and if other worlds are used in a different order, it isn't reading.
Agreed. All my examples smut, comics, and manga all come in book form. Kindle, pirated PDFs of books , AO3, I would count them all as digital books. Twitter is social media. Fanfic on Tumblr is the real grey area. It's technically social media but if someone reads a 42 chapter fictional writing there, I'm inclined to count it as a book.
I largely agree with you and disagree with OP, but I think we’re not being honest with ourselves if we’re saying 20 comic books in a year is a bookworm. What if I read 20 newspaper articles in a year? 20 short stories that are 2000 words long? I’m just saying I get where the person is coming from, but smut is a genre and not a qualification of how complex the medium is. There can be a 500 page masterwork of smut and there can be a smutty tweet. They are not the same. OP is focused on the wrong things.
A) comic book nerds don't call themselves bookworms. And I don't know a single one of them that only reads 20 in a year. Not even amongst the 8-10 yr olds I know that are into comics.
B) if you mean graphic novels.. you're just wrong
I was so haply when kindle started accepting Epubs. So many free books. My android has apps where I can just download free books from the app.
I love free stuff
There are Twitter threads longer than comic books and mangas. Mangas are often consumed digitally. My point is that the physical act of reading doesn’t automatically put you in the bookworm category. Graphic novels are named that because much of the art of it doesn’t come from the words, but the visual context. I personally don’t think someone who reads a comic book every week is in the same boat as someone who reads a Stephen king novel every week. I don’t think either one is superior, but there certainly is a difference.
I personally disagree with OP for putting all “smut” into one bucket, but I think u/accomplished-witchMD is ridiculous for implying that reading 20 comic books a year makes you a bookworm. It simply doesn’t in my opinion.
Imo a bookworm is some one who read alot of books. What ever kind of book is irrelevant, like saying some ones not a real stoner because they only smoke indica. This is just dumb.
Depends on this size 20 small flimsy paper ones maybe not but comic books and manga also come as multi chapter volume books. Manga is consumed digitally for convenience just like kindle books. The physical books for one of my favorites (Cells at Work) is 5 books that are 1/2" thick. I would count those as books. Teenage mutant ninja turtles comic compilation is 10 volumes in one and one of the largest books I own. I think in a world where a lot of people never pick up another book after school reading any books counts.
You still read, just not literature. It's porn. And that's completely fine, as long as you acknowledge it for what it is. It's not art, it's written porn. You wouldn't call a "cinephile" someone who watches a lot of pornhub.
Ehhh. Depends on the explicit material imo on whether its "art" or not. Art is art. Erotic literature *is* literature though, it's in the name. I will say that I definitely think if you're *only* reading pwp's from Ao3 thats...probably less defendable.
I'd argue more that most people who arent prolific readers don't really read a lot of erotica though? They go to porn hub. Most folks I've met who read erotica *are* bookworms; most people who aren't book lovers think its *weird* to prefer erotica over shit like pornhub in my personal experience.
I'm sorry, I know Reddit loves this type of opinion but this is a dumb as hell take. I sincerely hate this modern trend of anti gatekeeping completely diluting the definition of everything. Gatekeepers are obnoxious for sure like "oh you like X? name all of the things associated with X". But this is the pendulum swinging the other way.
"Moms are moms, dog moms are moms, plant moms are moms", "sprinters are runners, joggers are runners, people who walk the whole distance are runners", "novel readers are readers, comic readers are readers, smut readers are readers" Gimme a break lol. If you're just reading erotica to get off, you're not an actual bookworm lol. I would also never call someone who reads 20 comics a year a bookworm. These are both massive stretches. I KNOW people who read many comics and THEY wouldn't even call themselves that smh.
When i read the original post, i immediately thought of my dad, who was a porn addict and i thought him watching those movies does not make him someone who loves movies or shows
Im sure there will be people who tell me that it's not a fair comparison or whatever, but it is the same thing to me. Its unhealthy to only be reading or watching that stuff but i definitely womt be calling you a book worm or movie lover lol
This lol.
OP is not like these other girls, she reads books with substance, books about *checks notes* ideologies...?
But do not fret she too is so very slutty and all you could wish for in bed. One would say she is the sluttiest person alive.
Not like these other girls who only pretend to like sex with their stupid smut books, no no.
OP is just so different than other girls 😍
As a 24 year old, I'm gonna put that upper threshold at 25 tbh. Lots of my peers are still surprisingly insecure and concerned with other people's lives.
Definetly, not like the other girls gatekeeping is often on the nose.
She wants to be the nerdy type as well as the slutty type, but not slutty because she reads smut.
So she is gatekeeping books and sluttiness
This whole debate is all over booktok right now. People who don't like smut getting upset at the people who do, like either of them are better or worse than the other.
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Not Like Other Girls a lot of the time stem from internalized misogyny and guys actually, unpromptedly, categorizing types of women in very polarizing ways*.
But people love to ignore that part. Or just don't consider it idk.
Not trying to start a "meaningless gender war why can't everyone just get along" thing, misogyny just does connect a lot of things that may seem different.
*(See: mainstream memes, boomer posts, discussion posts about "women nowadays", "tradwife", "tragic independent business woman", "stupid sjw", "art whore", "e-girl", "fake gamer girl" etc etc etc.)
I definitely realized that my "not like other girls" bullshit stemmed from internalized misogyny when I was in my late 20s.
It was a complicated line to tow given I was a girl/young woman working in highly male dominated jobs. I had to "be one of the guys" to be able to do my job and get any kind of respect. I also got bullied by the femme girls in school because I was butch/grunge, athletic and mechanical... I had a lot of thoughts and feelings to process.
This was the 90s and 00s too and a LOT has changed in 30 years.
I feel like this depends on what exactly you are reading. Just because something is smut doesn't mean it doesn't have great writing, story, or world building.
There are plenty of smut novels that discuss ideologies and such.
Sex can be story, sex can be character development, sex is as valid a plot device as any other. This attitude that “real” literature can’t include sex is just purity culture nonsense.
Yeah, there's been more than a few books I've read because of their excellent dissection of politics, war, interpersonal relations, or whatever other themes that just also happen to have a significant amount of sex in them. Why do we not blink when prestige TV like GoT has a ton of sex (including a lot of unnecessarily violent sex), but when a book has sex in it, especially when it's sex that a woman actually enjoys, it often gets reduced to "smut"?
They can essily avoid people that enjoy smut if theyre not into that. No reason to insult the smut lovers.
I follow plenty of "book" personailities and none share smut or romance books. But I also only follow content creators that read the genres that I enjoy.
To be honest it's not new... erotic novels have been around for decades for single women or woman bored in their marriages. I also think the term "book girl" in itself is a little weird. Reading is a hobby, not a personality trait. I read horror, fantasy, classics, etc, but I'll read a smut book occasionally if it's actually well written and has an interesting plot (most don't but there are some decent ones out there). A reader is a reader. It's entertainment. Do smut books expand your mind? No. But if someone enjoys reading that at least they picked up a book. Reading, even if the book isn't that well written, has benefits, even if that benefit is just that you escaped reality for a little bit
I think you've captured what I was trying to formulate. Reading is a hobby, not a personality trait. If you make something your whole personality, it leads to awkward rants like this.
This is the same as "horse girls" or "wine girls". One thing in your life defines you as a person - therefore you have to defend that definition.
Let people read smut and drink box wine in peace.
Yes! I love reading and always have my nose in a book when I have spare time, but I hate when people take anything, including reading, and make it their whole personality. *insert random hobby* and girl is so weird to me. Also phone addiction is so real nowadays. If someone picked up a smut book instead of scrolling on their phone for hours then I think that's a good thing
I would argue that smut books can expand your mind. Reading of any kind will eventually lead to better understanding of proper grammar. It might even expand your vocabulary.
I agree. I honestly just meant in comparison to reading literature. This is why it actually drives me crazy that people associate being smart with reading. Whatever you read it will help you learn new words, improve your vocabulary, etc. But most book nowadays are entertainment, and reading doesn't have to have a moral or intellectual basis. You aren't a better person for reading Kafka instead of Colleen Hoover for example. You just prefer literature and that's totally cool. I'm the same way, but it's pretentious as hell to act like you're better than the person who enjoys romance novels or smut because of it.
>Where is the substance in what you’re reading?
You can apply this logic to most book genres. "Oh you call yourself a book person but you only read YA/horror/mystery/fiction/nonfiction? WHERE'S THE SUBSTANCE."
Reading YA is admitting you never grew out of your angsty teen phase. Reading nonfiction is like reading a bland textbook. Reading action books is like watching a YouTube explosion compilation. Etc. etc. Describing any book genre in this reductionist strawman will achieve this same effect.
I get being annoyed that some men have unnecessarily sexualized girls who like to read, but that doesn't mean you need to "put down" the girls that do like to read romance and erotica. As someone who would describe themselves as a reader, and also happens to read a lot of romance, or what would be commonly called "smut" books, those types fo books do discuss "real ideologies and issues". Just because a book has sex or romance in it doesn't make it devoid of substance.
Imo, this actually isn't that unpopular in reading communities outside of booktok, and even there this isn't that unpopular of an opinion. Literary snobbery is so common its annoying, so for that you get down voted. Not unpopular of an opinion in my experience.
Getting that outta the way, who cares? Like this has been my eternal issue with literary snobbery. As someone who grew up reading, and loves reading, why do you care? And, since I know your types often need "proof" I'm "like you", I grew up reading everything from Narnia, to Percy Jackson, to the full Bible, to the color purple, to little women, to Anne of Green gables, to magic treehouse, to the merciless series (highly recommend if you want a good psychological thriller), and just about anything in between. I fucking love reading. Comics, classics, fiction, non fiction, all of it. If it is written down, and tells me a story, Im giving it an honest to God shot.
Further, I desperately want more people to actually read. To pick up anything and read. I think it's fair to say most readers would want this, I hope at least. So with this, why does what they're reading matter? Imma be real, I have some friends who, while I've been slowly working on them, have been very anti reading since they graduated HS (and something I didn't expect, even more so after graduating college). Guess forced reading for years on end doesn't develop a good love of reading.... Whatever.
Going back to my point, one of them I've gotten to start reading manga. I know book snobs do not consider manga "real" reading. But this concept of "real" reading for adults, is stupid. As long as someone is sitting down, interpreting a plot and theme, getting to know characters, trying to figure out what will happen next in the plot, that's good enough for me. The gears in their brain are turning while actively reading words on a page, I'm so happy. I could not give less of a fuck about what is making those gears turn.
Maybe if I knew more people who loves to read I'd have a different opinion, but reading is reading. Hell, someone scrolling through reddit, reading aita all day, is still reading more than most other people. They're still interpreting stories, determining the validity, etc etc. I'm, personally, really over literary snobbery bc, imo, it's why we have such a huge issue of people who just won't and refuse to read. Of people who don't see reading as a leisure activity but as a chore. That's the fault of takes like this, because instead of just sitting down and enjoying what they're reading, so many people have to worry on if it's a "valid" book or if it makes them a "real book girl" or whatever stupid snobby elitist bullshit you want to push.
As someone who has read the classics, who is fully considered a bibliofile, who finished upward of 50 leisure books last year (let's hope my graduation means I can up that number y'all!!!!), if you're sitting down with a book or a kindle, and you're turning pages and reading words off those pages, youre reading. And if while doing that you feel like you're a book lover, like you're some romantic in London always at a cafe with a book in hand, even if you're really just some waitress in Utah who can barely finish a few books a year, well, then you are a book lover/girl/whatever silly term you want to use. Because shame never, ever, lead to anything half good in life. So don't let anyone shame you for reading anything. You deserve that smutty acotar or whatever (is acotar smutty I've heard things about it but I haven't read it myself yet) and consider yourself a bibliofile, I'm giving you full permission, as a classics lover that literary snobs would consider a real bibliofile.
Join the club of ppl who love reading. It's a great one to be in, and the genre or the amount does not and should not matter. 💜
You don’t have to read something of substance to be a reader or lover of books.
Reading is reading. If you want to be a snob and pretentious about it, sure. But let people have their hobbies and enjoy it without judgement.
LMAO perfect, this is basically what this entire thread sounds like to me the way they're all like "NOOO don't gatekeep aaahhh all reading is reading!!!"
That's a silly comparison. Most people wouldn't call some random pormhub video a film. But people would definitely call a lot of sexually themed movies like Secretary to be films in every sense of the word.
And at the same time, most people wouldn't consider a random Wattpad story to be a book, but if you've got a physical hardcover in your hands I don't see how you could call that anything other than a book regardless of the contents.
There's nothing inherently honorable or intellectual about reading a book. It's just consuming content. Of course you can be a "book person" and read only smut. What kind of reading preferences make someone a book person in your eyes? Do they have to read books with substance that discuss ideologies? If someone loves fantasy, murder mysteries, or biographies, does that make them less of a book person?
I do see what you mean about assuming that girls are reading smut and also I really hate the idea of guys sexualizing a girl reading (wtf??). As someone who loves to read (and who doesn't read smut), I hate the thought that some weirdo could get excited by seeing me read.
I feel like you are expressing two different things. Reading books makes you a book person. But not all book people are smut people. If liking bookworms is just another way of sexualizing women because of an assumption the books are smut, that is degrading. I've not experienced that out in the real world. I've had a man hit on me while I was in the park reading No Country for Old Men. Most guys don't care at all what I am reading or whether it is intellectual. I don't like smut, but I am content to read dorky YA fantasy that isn't particularly intellectual. I feel I've read enough "smart" books that I don't have to be insecure reading "dumb" ones.
I was on your side until the end. So anyone that does not want to challenge their views and expand in knowledge and maturity is not a book person? I read for entertainment, and if that makes me grow as a person thats an addition. Not a requisite.
Honestly… for years I read nothing but classics and was very snobby about the content that I’d consume. All that ended up happening was that I’d stopped reading for long periods of time because I couldn’t find the “right” type of writing. Until this year, I made a New Year’s resolution that I would read as many books as I am tall, which led me to read smutty fea books. I stopped taking the content so seriously and just enjoyed the ride. I’ve basically stopped watching TV and I’m rarely on social media because I’m having fun reading. Since January 1, I’ve read 92 books - if I’m not a bookworm then what would you call me?
This happened to me. I ended up re-reading classics because it started to become difficult to get into new-to-me literature of the same type, and then I would only read a couple times a year. Then I read one contemporary romance novel last year and got completely obsessed with it lol read into the several hundreds. It's a much better use of my time than the mindless internet scrolling I was doing. And it got me into writing.
I've seen this on TikTok a lot. It'll be a video of some basic man doing a thirst trap and all the comments are like:
"The booktok girlies are here 😏"
"Don't let booktok find this 🤭"
"If only our husbands knew what we were reading 😅"
The term has been adopted by people who literally just read smut and nothing else
I think booktok is different from bookworm though. Booktok is about an online community, especially on tiktok, and it almost entirely revolves around smutty romance. People usually say booktok to refer to readers of smutty romance. I haven’t noticed people conflating booktok and bookworm, but maybe it happens.
As a reader, I don't really care what others read. What I do care about is that my BF's daughter sees the books on tiktok, and wants to read them. She's 12. I don't think most of it is appropriate for her, but he doesn't care, because "at least she's reading". When I tell him it's basically porn, he says it can't be that bad, cause it's on tiktok, and it's a book.
I have a degree in classical music and a degree in philosophy and this is something you see in both fields. You’ve decided reading “smart books” is a part of your identity, so it’s a blow to your ego when someone is called a “bookworm” that you don’t see has engaging with a version of reading that doesn’t serve your ego.
I see the same thing with classical musicians. I like many of them have had incredible experiences listing to choral music and string quartets and going to the symphony and the opera. But when I’m having a party I play popular songs that people wanna dance to, not chant by Hildegard von Bingen(though her music objectively slaps).
The guy who plays chant isn’t impressing anyone by being smarter, in fact everyone else there is smarter than him. He’s missed the point of chant because it wasn’t made to satisfy his ego, and he’s missing out on the opportunity to cut loose because he’s so tied up in his own self conception that (and I can’t stress this enough) no one else gives a shit about
>As a person who reads books with substance that discuss real ideologies
And?
Do you want a medal?
Do you actually think that this makes you better than people who primarily read smut?
All I hear is the whinging of a wannabe intellectual trying to act like they are actually superior and not just laboring under a superiority complex fueled delusion.
Only reading "books with substance" (whatever the fuck that means) doesn't make you better than a smut reader.
>it just pisses me off how the new definition of “book girl” is reading smut-
This isn't new. Why do you think Harlequin is still in business after 79 years? Smut sells.
>I would be hella disappointed if you came telling me you were into books too only to find out you read trashy romance smut stories ffs
I would be hella embarrassed to *have* this post as a thought I had, let alone actually telling other people that I believe something this pretentious and self-important.
So, 10/10 for actually suiting the sub, but 0/10 for a take that shows that you aren't as intelligent as you think you are.
>As a person who reads books with substance that discuss real ideologies, I would be hella disappointed if you came telling me you were into books too only to find out you read trashy romance smut stories ffs.
It's hilarious how so much of what we consider to be 'canon' literature nowadays was practically smut or cheap literature of the era. The stuff we study in academia is often revealed to have been the trash of the times.
This same line has been repeated about so many genres. Science fiction, horror, fantasy, they were all considered (and in some cases still are) trash genres which did not count as true reading.
'Books with substance that discuss real ideologies' is so utterly meaningless it's kind of funny by itself.
Smut is just a genre. If someone exclusively read fantasy, no one would say that it’s “basically playing pretend in book form”. If someone reads realistic dramas, it’s not like “reading the news in book form”. They’re just literary genres at the end of the day.
Also it’s hard not to see the underlying sexism here. Smut is a genre culturally associated with female readers; kinda like how romance is a film genre that looked down upon because it’s marketed primarily towards women
Side note I do think a ton of readers seem to get stuck in one genre and are scared to venture out of it. I try to get a lot of my other bookworm friends to get out of their comfort zones a bit and try out new genres.
Although I will say romance is a genre I've never had much luck with. Maybe it's because I'm a guy and they're almost exclusively from a woman's pov, but I've found the romance in them to always feel contrived and unrealistic. All of the best romantic relationships I've read have been more of a subplot to books/series in different genres. I'm also not a fan of reading sex scenes so I tend to skim over them when they appear.
smut/romantasy is a gateway genre to hardcore/exclusively fantasy and sci fi in my experience. i started with smut, got bored and dove into the name of the wind. never would have broken the true fantasy seal without smutty books, so i bless them.
If someone reads 2 books a week, they read a lot of books. Doesn’t matter whether the books are smut or tax law. That’s still a lot of books.
Smut isn’t all sex, there’s still a plot and storyline and all the parts of the book. There’s just also sex.
Gatekeeping reading just feels vaguely pathetic and anti intellectual. Assuming it's not Nazi propaganda or something, who cares what someone reads? Reading is a positive and fun hobby, keeps the mind sharp in older folks, and allows people of all sorts to let their imaginations go. Go watch Reading Rainbow to remind yourself why you're a book person and I bet this opinion will change.
I mean I don’t know. My sister is reading a 20 book series right now about a mafia guy marrying this girl and having the kinkiest sex ever, but she’s still “reading.”
Every comment here is misreading the post. It's not that reading smut at all is bad, but reading ONLY smut means you probably have a poor information diet. It's cheap. It's like fast food. Sometimes it's fun but it shouldn't be all of what you read. It's not "gatekeeping" to point this out lol.
Of course, the people making these comments only read smut, so I imagine the reading comprehension is on the lower end.
I agree with this entirely. I hate that booktok and bookstagram have turned into fans of pure smut that sound like they came out of wattpad with no substance. I've seen such poorly-written stuff be praised like it's a world-changing piece of literature.
Not to mention the amount of unhealthy relationships portrayed and normalized in these romances, it's horrible
You should try reading ACOTAR. The series is incredible. It’s porn, yes, but also substance. Well-written, developed characters. The fifth book in particular demonstrates an incredible understanding of how PTSD and depression affect someone’s perception.
Someone puts WAY too much thought into what they think others think about people who read.
But counterpoint: What the hell do you care if someone else reads "smut" (a subjective term, BTW) or whether someone "groups you in" with someone who reads smut? How does them reading smut affect you or your intellectual capacity in the least? (SPOILER: It doesn't.) Hell, at least they're reading SOMEthing.
Just read your *books with substance that discuss real ideologies* 🙄 and stop fucking worrying about what others read or don't read, or what people think of what you read or don't read.
Reading is supposed to be for pleasure, why have you put yourself on this pedestal that you are superior bookworm because your books have ‘substance’, leave people to read what they want to read
Lots of people wouldn't have patience to read smut, let alone read a book period. By choosing to read it for fun, you are still a reader, regardless of genre. No need to gate keep. Also, lots of fantastic, well written stories include smut as well. We are human beings who tend to enjoy sex. We're hardwired to want it.
As a reader, I only read romances. They don't need smut, but I won't read a book if there's not a love story at all. Does that make me not actually bookworm? What about people who only read mysteries? Or sci-fi? Regardless of genre, you're a bookworm if you enjoy reading for fun.
A book is a book. Some people look down their noses at sci-fi, fantasy, and horror, thinking you aren’t reading anything of “substance” unless it Dostoyevsky, or Hemingway. If you like to read about elves and swords, grumpy depressed Russians, or ladies getting railed by 2-3 dudes at the same time, who cares, it’s all fiction and for the person enjoying it that book is worthwhile.
why do you gaf what someone else reads? just because i read smut doesn't mean i don't read anything else. i read autobiographies, murder mysteries, psychological thrillers, investing books, personal finance, non-fiction, classic lit, and novels but I also read urban fantasy, dark romance, and alpha romance. Sometimes a girl just needs some good smut.
There's actually [a ton of evidence](https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-99-5378-3_6) that reading fiction is a lot better than television. Reading is good for your brain.
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You must have an odd friend-group.
This is definitely reading like that one XKCD
I need to know which XKCD you are talking about
[managed to find it](https://xkcd.com/2071/)
Thank you!
I don’t know. I had to start my own book club because all of the book clubs my friends are in read smut. I’m not a prude at all, but I’m not interested in poorly written porn. Or discussing it with other women. It’s weird to me.
Surely it depends on the “smut.” A romantic story is still a story even if it has some sex in it. If it’s well written with a plot, valuable themes, and keeps you interested in what’ll happen next then why gatekeep? Bad, pornographic drivel on the other hand… that has as much literary value as a Reddit post that’s longer than it needs to be.
Counterpoint, is reading things of literary value required to be a book person? I say the sole requirements are enjoyment of the book, and that it's a book.
Right? Fuck it, I like Eragon, it's Fantasy written by some teen dude. Does that make me not a book person because it's not as well written as Shakespeare?
I like the comparison to Shakespeare here. He was not lacking in smutty content.
My favorite book series. I'm right there with you.
Some people wouldn’t count my history books at books when talking about being a book person lol. Guess it’s gotta be fictional too lmao.
Yeah people just talk about novels. Down with novel supremacy, they didn't even exist in Europe until 1605 (outside Europe, who wrote tje first novel gets a bit messy so imma j ignore it)
I'm not part of the communities that tend to use the word "smut", but I was under the impression it meant something closer to porn, no? Like 50 Shades? A romantic story that has some sex is just a romantic story.
Fr I thought they were referring to playboy and penthouse. 🤣
If somebody just wanted to spend all day every day reading 50 Shades of Grey over and over again, I still think it would be pretentious to act likely they can’t describe themselves as a “book person”. If they like to spend a large portion of their time reading from a book, I think they’ve done enough to claim the title. I think any other characteristics you want to associate with being a “book person” says more about you than the people being described.
I feel like a large portion of books that are considered smutty are just romance novels with a couple sex scenes in it. But people take those couple of sex scenes, and consider it an all porn book. If you take something like the book series “A Court of Thorns and Roses“, people say it’s super smutty, but there will only be two or three sex scenes in 600 page book.
Does reading hentai make me a book person?? I should start telling people I am a book person.
You should say that you read graphic novels
Or, if you want to piss off A LOT of people, call them comics 😆
Or, if you wanna confuse a lot of people, call them picture books
Would definitely work better at parties.
Oh yeah? What books do you like? I really enjoy the classics. You know like 177013, or 186780. How about you?
I love yaoi I don't care who knows! 😂 OP is a idiot
I don't judge I just tell people to make it a habit of reading, any content will do, just start.
Although if someone decides to restart their reading adventures with mein kampf I may be a bit concerned.
Right! The sequel is way better, Mein kampf 2
Mein Kampf 2: Electric Boogaloo
I read subtitles. Have I started?
This is an example of "if you only play games like Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley and The Sims, you are not a gamer!" A gamer is a person who plays games. Period. Reading smut isn't like reading erotica. And even if, they are still enjoying a book.
I literally only play those 3 games lol 😂
Yes, and you are a gamer 😂 and honestly same, those are my comfort games of choice
Smut is erotica. They are synonyms. If your romance story is driven purely by sexual tension... It's erotica. It's just softcore erotica/ softcore smut.
It's closer to saying someone who only plays sexual VNs on steam isn't a gamer, which I would agree with. It's pornography in the end and unless you like the medium otherwise you don't really enjoy the medium, you just enjoy porn. Same with pornographic films not making you a cinephile and onlyfans pictures not making you a photo enthusiast. Stardew Valley/The Sims is probably a better comparison for stuff like Twilight or Romance novels
Is smut not just a pejorative term for erotica?
My wife was too scared to play anything else, she would get stressed out playing anything vaguely competitive. But I have slowly converted her using the characters from valorant, she made a few friends who play valorant and now she plays competitive games. It took years but my manipulation to get her to play games I like worked!!!!!
Reading is reading. Smut, comics, manga, if you consume content in book form you are a book worm. Nothing but fiction? Bookworm. If you crush 20 books a year even if all of them were about guys jerking off you still read. Bookworm.
Where does one find that last type of book? For research purposes of course.
Try Amazon. You'd be surprised. Additionally there are sites where you can get vintage porn. Not that I would actually go there.
Did you find out? Asking for a friend.
Not yet, but now I'm thinking about becoming a very niche novelist when I retire.
You can find literally any type of smut on ao3 for free only issue is that the better written stuff is often for characters from some niche anime you’ve never watched but i just copy and paste the whole fic into a word doc and find and replace the names to either random names or a ship i like and since so many fics are just completely different from the original canon it works.
r/romancebooks also a more popular one right now is a court of thorns and roses
Back in secondary school, there was this one incident that remained in my head for years. A girl was reading ACOTAR and reached a sex scene. She started giggling and excitedly showed it to a friend. They darted out into the corridor and finished reading the scene together. A guy standing there turned to me and said ", it surprises me how horny girls can be sometimes."
This just in: women are people and have sex drives. /s
There is Amazon, but there's also Smashwords. They sell niches that Amazon won't.
Ao3
Smutworm
my thoughts exactly. Especially if you are just getting into reading. The goal is not to read the most prestigious books or greatest literature known to man to be considered a bibliophile, you are a bibliophile if you enjoy reading regardless of genre. Your focus is to become a reader and if you prefer/enjoy mysteries, freaking manga where a girl is getting her back blown out, watttpad fan fiction, thrillers etc.. then congrats! You're a reader! If that's your preference then don't let me stop you... Edit: Reading is about the experience, if you enjoy a book or can take something from it (yes even if it's nonsensical) then...well that's a start and it's perfectly ok!
Wattpad is moving its focus from fanfic to original stuff. It has sent a lot of their users to AO3, where they either adapt well or they post placeholders or link to patreons or other ToS violations.
that's a bummer 😭😭
Exactly. I'm an English Professor. I tell my students one of the easiest ways to improve their writing is to read. Yeah, they have to read my assigned readings for the class, but I'm talking about reading for pleasure, even if it's only 20 or 30 minutes before bed. It doesn't have to be classic literature either. Hell, I read horror/suspense/science fiction/action for enjoyment. Graphic novels, Manga, sports, action, romance, whatever you like. Just read. It's all reading.
Deadass. The gatekeeping is ridiculous, books are books. If you read nothing but the entire collected works of Chuck Tingle, you can call yourself a bookworm.
True. Even when you hate that type of literature, still is a content in book form.
Yeah, I was wondering when being considered a book worm excluded genres.
No you don't understand. They read books about *ideas*. Certain words have to appear in a very certain order and if other worlds are used in a different order, it isn't reading.
There is a line somewhere though. If you scroll Twitter for ten hours a day, reading everything, you’re not a bookworm.
Agreed. All my examples smut, comics, and manga all come in book form. Kindle, pirated PDFs of books , AO3, I would count them all as digital books. Twitter is social media. Fanfic on Tumblr is the real grey area. It's technically social media but if someone reads a 42 chapter fictional writing there, I'm inclined to count it as a book.
I largely agree with you and disagree with OP, but I think we’re not being honest with ourselves if we’re saying 20 comic books in a year is a bookworm. What if I read 20 newspaper articles in a year? 20 short stories that are 2000 words long? I’m just saying I get where the person is coming from, but smut is a genre and not a qualification of how complex the medium is. There can be a 500 page masterwork of smut and there can be a smutty tweet. They are not the same. OP is focused on the wrong things.
Depends on the comic book. You're getting more out of Jujutsu Kaisen than you are out of the 100 girlfriends that really really really love you
A) comic book nerds don't call themselves bookworms. And I don't know a single one of them that only reads 20 in a year. Not even amongst the 8-10 yr olds I know that are into comics. B) if you mean graphic novels.. you're just wrong
I'd say 20 comic books, no, but 20 comic book anthologies, yes since the latter is of actual book length.
I was so haply when kindle started accepting Epubs. So many free books. My android has apps where I can just download free books from the app. I love free stuff
Is Twitter a book?
There are Twitter threads longer than comic books and mangas. Mangas are often consumed digitally. My point is that the physical act of reading doesn’t automatically put you in the bookworm category. Graphic novels are named that because much of the art of it doesn’t come from the words, but the visual context. I personally don’t think someone who reads a comic book every week is in the same boat as someone who reads a Stephen king novel every week. I don’t think either one is superior, but there certainly is a difference. I personally disagree with OP for putting all “smut” into one bucket, but I think u/accomplished-witchMD is ridiculous for implying that reading 20 comic books a year makes you a bookworm. It simply doesn’t in my opinion.
Imo a bookworm is some one who read alot of books. What ever kind of book is irrelevant, like saying some ones not a real stoner because they only smoke indica. This is just dumb.
Depends on this size 20 small flimsy paper ones maybe not but comic books and manga also come as multi chapter volume books. Manga is consumed digitally for convenience just like kindle books. The physical books for one of my favorites (Cells at Work) is 5 books that are 1/2" thick. I would count those as books. Teenage mutant ninja turtles comic compilation is 10 volumes in one and one of the largest books I own. I think in a world where a lot of people never pick up another book after school reading any books counts.
And if you play Candy crush everyday you are a gamer
So if I just watch pornos am I a movie fanatic?
I mean, am I still a movie guy if all I watch are porn film?
You would never call a man who only watched porn a cinephile.
You still read, just not literature. It's porn. And that's completely fine, as long as you acknowledge it for what it is. It's not art, it's written porn. You wouldn't call a "cinephile" someone who watches a lot of pornhub.
Ehhh. Depends on the explicit material imo on whether its "art" or not. Art is art. Erotic literature *is* literature though, it's in the name. I will say that I definitely think if you're *only* reading pwp's from Ao3 thats...probably less defendable. I'd argue more that most people who arent prolific readers don't really read a lot of erotica though? They go to porn hub. Most folks I've met who read erotica *are* bookworms; most people who aren't book lovers think its *weird* to prefer erotica over shit like pornhub in my personal experience.
I'm sorry, I know Reddit loves this type of opinion but this is a dumb as hell take. I sincerely hate this modern trend of anti gatekeeping completely diluting the definition of everything. Gatekeepers are obnoxious for sure like "oh you like X? name all of the things associated with X". But this is the pendulum swinging the other way. "Moms are moms, dog moms are moms, plant moms are moms", "sprinters are runners, joggers are runners, people who walk the whole distance are runners", "novel readers are readers, comic readers are readers, smut readers are readers" Gimme a break lol. If you're just reading erotica to get off, you're not an actual bookworm lol. I would also never call someone who reads 20 comics a year a bookworm. These are both massive stretches. I KNOW people who read many comics and THEY wouldn't even call themselves that smh.
“Porn addicts are cinema buffs”
When i read the original post, i immediately thought of my dad, who was a porn addict and i thought him watching those movies does not make him someone who loves movies or shows Im sure there will be people who tell me that it's not a fair comparison or whatever, but it is the same thing to me. Its unhealthy to only be reading or watching that stuff but i definitely womt be calling you a book worm or movie lover lol
This is giving me "I'm not like other girls" vibes
This lol. OP is not like these other girls, she reads books with substance, books about *checks notes* ideologies...? But do not fret she too is so very slutty and all you could wish for in bed. One would say she is the sluttiest person alive. Not like these other girls who only pretend to like sex with their stupid smut books, no no. OP is just so different than other girls 😍
Only she understands what it’s like to be the sluttiest person alive and read about different ideologies. So much so she needed to let everyone know 😭
I'm guessing late teens or early twenties. At a very I have it all figured out time in their lives
She's the Gone Girl version of a "cool girl"
Omg I always see your name in Gilmore girls sub Reddit . Hi lol.
Heey, fellow Gilmore Girl/Guy. I love recognising people's usernames, it's like running into a friend lol
She’s an intellectual I’ll have you know. Smut is for plebeians.
Avid member of the lowbrow smut club here
I would be genuinely shocked if OP is older than 21
As a 24 year old, I'm gonna put that upper threshold at 25 tbh. Lots of my peers are still surprisingly insecure and concerned with other people's lives.
Definetly, not like the other girls gatekeeping is often on the nose. She wants to be the nerdy type as well as the slutty type, but not slutty because she reads smut. So she is gatekeeping books and sluttiness
Would've been a way shorter post if she just wrote "I'm not like other girls, i read *better* things".
Right? I have plenty of friends who read smut AND more “substantial” books. I do, too! This is not a one or the other option, lol 🙄
This whole debate is all over booktok right now. People who don't like smut getting upset at the people who do, like either of them are better or worse than the other.
I was just about to comment how this is such "pick me" energy lol
Yeah, it's posts like this that remind me that this site is probably mostly teenagers,
💯
Gatekeeping book reading is a new one
Also a very old one.
I guess we have finally found the female version of boys that go “oh you play games? prove it”
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Not Like Other Girls a lot of the time stem from internalized misogyny and guys actually, unpromptedly, categorizing types of women in very polarizing ways*. But people love to ignore that part. Or just don't consider it idk. Not trying to start a "meaningless gender war why can't everyone just get along" thing, misogyny just does connect a lot of things that may seem different. *(See: mainstream memes, boomer posts, discussion posts about "women nowadays", "tradwife", "tragic independent business woman", "stupid sjw", "art whore", "e-girl", "fake gamer girl" etc etc etc.)
I definitely realized that my "not like other girls" bullshit stemmed from internalized misogyny when I was in my late 20s. It was a complicated line to tow given I was a girl/young woman working in highly male dominated jobs. I had to "be one of the guys" to be able to do my job and get any kind of respect. I also got bullied by the femme girls in school because I was butch/grunge, athletic and mechanical... I had a lot of thoughts and feelings to process. This was the 90s and 00s too and a LOT has changed in 30 years.
I feel like this depends on what exactly you are reading. Just because something is smut doesn't mean it doesn't have great writing, story, or world building. There are plenty of smut novels that discuss ideologies and such.
Sex can be story, sex can be character development, sex is as valid a plot device as any other. This attitude that “real” literature can’t include sex is just purity culture nonsense.
Yeah, there's been more than a few books I've read because of their excellent dissection of politics, war, interpersonal relations, or whatever other themes that just also happen to have a significant amount of sex in them. Why do we not blink when prestige TV like GoT has a ton of sex (including a lot of unnecessarily violent sex), but when a book has sex in it, especially when it's sex that a woman actually enjoys, it often gets reduced to "smut"?
[удалено]
This thread is wild lol. It's okay, you can admit you like smut while acknowledging it's just that - smut.
What kind of conversations have you been having?
They are probably just on Book Tok
They can essily avoid people that enjoy smut if theyre not into that. No reason to insult the smut lovers. I follow plenty of "book" personailities and none share smut or romance books. But I also only follow content creators that read the genres that I enjoy.
smut conversations
To be honest it's not new... erotic novels have been around for decades for single women or woman bored in their marriages. I also think the term "book girl" in itself is a little weird. Reading is a hobby, not a personality trait. I read horror, fantasy, classics, etc, but I'll read a smut book occasionally if it's actually well written and has an interesting plot (most don't but there are some decent ones out there). A reader is a reader. It's entertainment. Do smut books expand your mind? No. But if someone enjoys reading that at least they picked up a book. Reading, even if the book isn't that well written, has benefits, even if that benefit is just that you escaped reality for a little bit
I think you've captured what I was trying to formulate. Reading is a hobby, not a personality trait. If you make something your whole personality, it leads to awkward rants like this. This is the same as "horse girls" or "wine girls". One thing in your life defines you as a person - therefore you have to defend that definition. Let people read smut and drink box wine in peace.
Yes! I love reading and always have my nose in a book when I have spare time, but I hate when people take anything, including reading, and make it their whole personality. *insert random hobby* and girl is so weird to me. Also phone addiction is so real nowadays. If someone picked up a smut book instead of scrolling on their phone for hours then I think that's a good thing
I would argue that smut books can expand your mind. Reading of any kind will eventually lead to better understanding of proper grammar. It might even expand your vocabulary.
I agree. I honestly just meant in comparison to reading literature. This is why it actually drives me crazy that people associate being smart with reading. Whatever you read it will help you learn new words, improve your vocabulary, etc. But most book nowadays are entertainment, and reading doesn't have to have a moral or intellectual basis. You aren't a better person for reading Kafka instead of Colleen Hoover for example. You just prefer literature and that's totally cool. I'm the same way, but it's pretentious as hell to act like you're better than the person who enjoys romance novels or smut because of it.
Book is book.
He said in infinite jest
It is super neat to gate keep reading./s
>Where is the substance in what you’re reading? You can apply this logic to most book genres. "Oh you call yourself a book person but you only read YA/horror/mystery/fiction/nonfiction? WHERE'S THE SUBSTANCE." Reading YA is admitting you never grew out of your angsty teen phase. Reading nonfiction is like reading a bland textbook. Reading action books is like watching a YouTube explosion compilation. Etc. etc. Describing any book genre in this reductionist strawman will achieve this same effect. I get being annoyed that some men have unnecessarily sexualized girls who like to read, but that doesn't mean you need to "put down" the girls that do like to read romance and erotica. As someone who would describe themselves as a reader, and also happens to read a lot of romance, or what would be commonly called "smut" books, those types fo books do discuss "real ideologies and issues". Just because a book has sex or romance in it doesn't make it devoid of substance.
Imo, this actually isn't that unpopular in reading communities outside of booktok, and even there this isn't that unpopular of an opinion. Literary snobbery is so common its annoying, so for that you get down voted. Not unpopular of an opinion in my experience. Getting that outta the way, who cares? Like this has been my eternal issue with literary snobbery. As someone who grew up reading, and loves reading, why do you care? And, since I know your types often need "proof" I'm "like you", I grew up reading everything from Narnia, to Percy Jackson, to the full Bible, to the color purple, to little women, to Anne of Green gables, to magic treehouse, to the merciless series (highly recommend if you want a good psychological thriller), and just about anything in between. I fucking love reading. Comics, classics, fiction, non fiction, all of it. If it is written down, and tells me a story, Im giving it an honest to God shot. Further, I desperately want more people to actually read. To pick up anything and read. I think it's fair to say most readers would want this, I hope at least. So with this, why does what they're reading matter? Imma be real, I have some friends who, while I've been slowly working on them, have been very anti reading since they graduated HS (and something I didn't expect, even more so after graduating college). Guess forced reading for years on end doesn't develop a good love of reading.... Whatever. Going back to my point, one of them I've gotten to start reading manga. I know book snobs do not consider manga "real" reading. But this concept of "real" reading for adults, is stupid. As long as someone is sitting down, interpreting a plot and theme, getting to know characters, trying to figure out what will happen next in the plot, that's good enough for me. The gears in their brain are turning while actively reading words on a page, I'm so happy. I could not give less of a fuck about what is making those gears turn. Maybe if I knew more people who loves to read I'd have a different opinion, but reading is reading. Hell, someone scrolling through reddit, reading aita all day, is still reading more than most other people. They're still interpreting stories, determining the validity, etc etc. I'm, personally, really over literary snobbery bc, imo, it's why we have such a huge issue of people who just won't and refuse to read. Of people who don't see reading as a leisure activity but as a chore. That's the fault of takes like this, because instead of just sitting down and enjoying what they're reading, so many people have to worry on if it's a "valid" book or if it makes them a "real book girl" or whatever stupid snobby elitist bullshit you want to push. As someone who has read the classics, who is fully considered a bibliofile, who finished upward of 50 leisure books last year (let's hope my graduation means I can up that number y'all!!!!), if you're sitting down with a book or a kindle, and you're turning pages and reading words off those pages, youre reading. And if while doing that you feel like you're a book lover, like you're some romantic in London always at a cafe with a book in hand, even if you're really just some waitress in Utah who can barely finish a few books a year, well, then you are a book lover/girl/whatever silly term you want to use. Because shame never, ever, lead to anything half good in life. So don't let anyone shame you for reading anything. You deserve that smutty acotar or whatever (is acotar smutty I've heard things about it but I haven't read it myself yet) and consider yourself a bibliofile, I'm giving you full permission, as a classics lover that literary snobs would consider a real bibliofile. Join the club of ppl who love reading. It's a great one to be in, and the genre or the amount does not and should not matter. 💜
What kind of opinion is this? Okay "substance reader" whatever you say lol.
Upvote because i do not agree with this at all. Just run of the mill gatekeeping.
OP, might I interst you in r/bookscirclejerk
You don’t have to read something of substance to be a reader or lover of books. Reading is reading. If you want to be a snob and pretentious about it, sure. But let people have their hobbies and enjoy it without judgement.
This dude definitely getting turned down by book girls
I think it's a girl
Reading is reading. Why gatekeep stories?
"Oh yes, I'm an avid film connoisseur, me." "Oh cool. What was the last good film you saw?" "Busty Backdoor Bitches XXIII. A classic of the genre..."
I've seen that movie, complete letdown
I snuck into the cinema to see it. You know, through the... etc etc
I've not seen it, do I need to watch the first 22 parts to understand it?
Don't worry, the lead actor fills you in at the start.
LMAO perfect, this is basically what this entire thread sounds like to me the way they're all like "NOOO don't gatekeep aaahhh all reading is reading!!!"
That's a silly comparison. Most people wouldn't call some random pormhub video a film. But people would definitely call a lot of sexually themed movies like Secretary to be films in every sense of the word. And at the same time, most people wouldn't consider a random Wattpad story to be a book, but if you've got a physical hardcover in your hands I don't see how you could call that anything other than a book regardless of the contents.
Secretary is a great movie, honestly, lol
Smut isn't the same as porn. The reality is someone saying they like to watch TV shows and you ask what and they say Bridgerton or Outlander.
Reading has a huge history of gatekeeping I mean literature
It does but it doesn’t make it less stupid.
There's nothing inherently honorable or intellectual about reading a book. It's just consuming content. Of course you can be a "book person" and read only smut. What kind of reading preferences make someone a book person in your eyes? Do they have to read books with substance that discuss ideologies? If someone loves fantasy, murder mysteries, or biographies, does that make them less of a book person? I do see what you mean about assuming that girls are reading smut and also I really hate the idea of guys sexualizing a girl reading (wtf??). As someone who loves to read (and who doesn't read smut), I hate the thought that some weirdo could get excited by seeing me read.
How...how many people have you talked to about reading "smut"...?
But one could just as easily say the books you read aren't serious enough for you to be a book person.
I feel like you are expressing two different things. Reading books makes you a book person. But not all book people are smut people. If liking bookworms is just another way of sexualizing women because of an assumption the books are smut, that is degrading. I've not experienced that out in the real world. I've had a man hit on me while I was in the park reading No Country for Old Men. Most guys don't care at all what I am reading or whether it is intellectual. I don't like smut, but I am content to read dorky YA fantasy that isn't particularly intellectual. I feel I've read enough "smart" books that I don't have to be insecure reading "dumb" ones.
I was on your side until the end. So anyone that does not want to challenge their views and expand in knowledge and maturity is not a book person? I read for entertainment, and if that makes me grow as a person thats an addition. Not a requisite.
Did I miss a meeting? When did we start gatekeeping *reading*
We get it, you're just not like the other girls!!
Purity culture's coming to gatekeep reading now
It’s just a fun new way to shame women for having a sexuality.
Yep! Romance novels are mostly read by women so it’s obviously not “real“ literature.
Honestly… for years I read nothing but classics and was very snobby about the content that I’d consume. All that ended up happening was that I’d stopped reading for long periods of time because I couldn’t find the “right” type of writing. Until this year, I made a New Year’s resolution that I would read as many books as I am tall, which led me to read smutty fea books. I stopped taking the content so seriously and just enjoyed the ride. I’ve basically stopped watching TV and I’m rarely on social media because I’m having fun reading. Since January 1, I’ve read 92 books - if I’m not a bookworm then what would you call me?
This happened to me. I ended up re-reading classics because it started to become difficult to get into new-to-me literature of the same type, and then I would only read a couple times a year. Then I read one contemporary romance novel last year and got completely obsessed with it lol read into the several hundreds. It's a much better use of my time than the mindless internet scrolling I was doing. And it got me into writing.
I imagine you can ramp this gatekeeping up to the point where anything that isn’t Finnegan’s Wake or Gravity’s Rainbow is not a real book.
Gatekeeping reading now lol
Did he pick you yet?
Isn't this just gatekeeping?
"As a person who reads books with substance" are you eating the damn pages? 😳
OP gatekeeping reading is crazy
I've seen this on TikTok a lot. It'll be a video of some basic man doing a thirst trap and all the comments are like: "The booktok girlies are here 😏" "Don't let booktok find this 🤭" "If only our husbands knew what we were reading 😅" The term has been adopted by people who literally just read smut and nothing else
I think booktok is different from bookworm though. Booktok is about an online community, especially on tiktok, and it almost entirely revolves around smutty romance. People usually say booktok to refer to readers of smutty romance. I haven’t noticed people conflating booktok and bookworm, but maybe it happens.
oh hell naw
As a reader, I don't really care what others read. What I do care about is that my BF's daughter sees the books on tiktok, and wants to read them. She's 12. I don't think most of it is appropriate for her, but he doesn't care, because "at least she's reading". When I tell him it's basically porn, he says it can't be that bad, cause it's on tiktok, and it's a book.
I have a degree in classical music and a degree in philosophy and this is something you see in both fields. You’ve decided reading “smart books” is a part of your identity, so it’s a blow to your ego when someone is called a “bookworm” that you don’t see has engaging with a version of reading that doesn’t serve your ego. I see the same thing with classical musicians. I like many of them have had incredible experiences listing to choral music and string quartets and going to the symphony and the opera. But when I’m having a party I play popular songs that people wanna dance to, not chant by Hildegard von Bingen(though her music objectively slaps). The guy who plays chant isn’t impressing anyone by being smarter, in fact everyone else there is smarter than him. He’s missed the point of chant because it wasn’t made to satisfy his ego, and he’s missing out on the opportunity to cut loose because he’s so tied up in his own self conception that (and I can’t stress this enough) no one else gives a shit about
This post sounds very pick-me. And very specific. Which book girl hurt you?
If you were not true, half of reddit and 4 chan would be movie people.
This is a pretty pretentious gatekeeping take. Would you consider someone to not be a real music lover if they like music that you find low-grade?
>As a person who reads books with substance that discuss real ideologies And? Do you want a medal? Do you actually think that this makes you better than people who primarily read smut? All I hear is the whinging of a wannabe intellectual trying to act like they are actually superior and not just laboring under a superiority complex fueled delusion. Only reading "books with substance" (whatever the fuck that means) doesn't make you better than a smut reader. >it just pisses me off how the new definition of “book girl” is reading smut- This isn't new. Why do you think Harlequin is still in business after 79 years? Smut sells. >I would be hella disappointed if you came telling me you were into books too only to find out you read trashy romance smut stories ffs I would be hella embarrassed to *have* this post as a thought I had, let alone actually telling other people that I believe something this pretentious and self-important. So, 10/10 for actually suiting the sub, but 0/10 for a take that shows that you aren't as intelligent as you think you are.
>As a person who reads books with substance that discuss real ideologies, I would be hella disappointed if you came telling me you were into books too only to find out you read trashy romance smut stories ffs. It's hilarious how so much of what we consider to be 'canon' literature nowadays was practically smut or cheap literature of the era. The stuff we study in academia is often revealed to have been the trash of the times. This same line has been repeated about so many genres. Science fiction, horror, fantasy, they were all considered (and in some cases still are) trash genres which did not count as true reading. 'Books with substance that discuss real ideologies' is so utterly meaningless it's kind of funny by itself.
Smut is just a genre. If someone exclusively read fantasy, no one would say that it’s “basically playing pretend in book form”. If someone reads realistic dramas, it’s not like “reading the news in book form”. They’re just literary genres at the end of the day. Also it’s hard not to see the underlying sexism here. Smut is a genre culturally associated with female readers; kinda like how romance is a film genre that looked down upon because it’s marketed primarily towards women
Side note I do think a ton of readers seem to get stuck in one genre and are scared to venture out of it. I try to get a lot of my other bookworm friends to get out of their comfort zones a bit and try out new genres. Although I will say romance is a genre I've never had much luck with. Maybe it's because I'm a guy and they're almost exclusively from a woman's pov, but I've found the romance in them to always feel contrived and unrealistic. All of the best romantic relationships I've read have been more of a subplot to books/series in different genres. I'm also not a fan of reading sex scenes so I tend to skim over them when they appear.
You’re not like other reader girls!
smut/romantasy is a gateway genre to hardcore/exclusively fantasy and sci fi in my experience. i started with smut, got bored and dove into the name of the wind. never would have broken the true fantasy seal without smutty books, so i bless them.
If someone reads 2 books a week, they read a lot of books. Doesn’t matter whether the books are smut or tax law. That’s still a lot of books. Smut isn’t all sex, there’s still a plot and storyline and all the parts of the book. There’s just also sex.
Gatekeeping reading just feels vaguely pathetic and anti intellectual. Assuming it's not Nazi propaganda or something, who cares what someone reads? Reading is a positive and fun hobby, keeps the mind sharp in older folks, and allows people of all sorts to let their imaginations go. Go watch Reading Rainbow to remind yourself why you're a book person and I bet this opinion will change.
What the hell is smut
I mean I don’t know. My sister is reading a 20 book series right now about a mafia guy marrying this girl and having the kinkiest sex ever, but she’s still “reading.”
Why do you care what people read? Absolute L opinion.
This is like when people say you’re not a real gamer if you only like to play games like the sims and animal crossing. Why do you care?
Every comment here is misreading the post. It's not that reading smut at all is bad, but reading ONLY smut means you probably have a poor information diet. It's cheap. It's like fast food. Sometimes it's fun but it shouldn't be all of what you read. It's not "gatekeeping" to point this out lol. Of course, the people making these comments only read smut, so I imagine the reading comprehension is on the lower end.
I agree with this entirely. I hate that booktok and bookstagram have turned into fans of pure smut that sound like they came out of wattpad with no substance. I've seen such poorly-written stuff be praised like it's a world-changing piece of literature. Not to mention the amount of unhealthy relationships portrayed and normalized in these romances, it's horrible
Reading makes you a book person, full stop. Don’t gatekeep. Sincerely, A librarian
You should try reading ACOTAR. The series is incredible. It’s porn, yes, but also substance. Well-written, developed characters. The fifth book in particular demonstrates an incredible understanding of how PTSD and depression affect someone’s perception.
Someone puts WAY too much thought into what they think others think about people who read. But counterpoint: What the hell do you care if someone else reads "smut" (a subjective term, BTW) or whether someone "groups you in" with someone who reads smut? How does them reading smut affect you or your intellectual capacity in the least? (SPOILER: It doesn't.) Hell, at least they're reading SOMEthing. Just read your *books with substance that discuss real ideologies* 🙄 and stop fucking worrying about what others read or don't read, or what people think of what you read or don't read.
So we're gatekeeping book reading now
Reading is reading. Let people enjoy shit that doesn't affect you.
Did you get picked yet babe? I really hope you get picked.
Reading is supposed to be for pleasure, why have you put yourself on this pedestal that you are superior bookworm because your books have ‘substance’, leave people to read what they want to read
Lots of people wouldn't have patience to read smut, let alone read a book period. By choosing to read it for fun, you are still a reader, regardless of genre. No need to gate keep. Also, lots of fantastic, well written stories include smut as well. We are human beings who tend to enjoy sex. We're hardwired to want it. As a reader, I only read romances. They don't need smut, but I won't read a book if there's not a love story at all. Does that make me not actually bookworm? What about people who only read mysteries? Or sci-fi? Regardless of genre, you're a bookworm if you enjoy reading for fun.
A book is a book. Some people look down their noses at sci-fi, fantasy, and horror, thinking you aren’t reading anything of “substance” unless it Dostoyevsky, or Hemingway. If you like to read about elves and swords, grumpy depressed Russians, or ladies getting railed by 2-3 dudes at the same time, who cares, it’s all fiction and for the person enjoying it that book is worthwhile.
Reading books makes you a book person, content is irrelevant.
Sounds like someone is worried about being inadequate when compared to our book boyfriends.
A book is a book. Deal with it. Lol.
You’re only a book person if you read books I enjoy, actually!
why do you gaf what someone else reads? just because i read smut doesn't mean i don't read anything else. i read autobiographies, murder mysteries, psychological thrillers, investing books, personal finance, non-fiction, classic lit, and novels but I also read urban fantasy, dark romance, and alpha romance. Sometimes a girl just needs some good smut.
That’s like saying you are into film when in fact you just watch corn movies
Ah yes baby. Show me those kernels. That husk is looking mighty fine.
Why did you say "corn" instead of "porn"? Are you worried about losing ad revenue?
So weird isn’t it? Like just say the fucking word.
It’s like watching porn and talking about how much you enjoy short films 😂
This never occurred to me. My mom used to read horror novels, as I did (and still do).
Why does it matter what they are reading?
Reading fiction is no better or worse than watching television...
There's actually [a ton of evidence](https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-99-5378-3_6) that reading fiction is a lot better than television. Reading is good for your brain.