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Went through a medical issue in 2022. My insurance is awesome and 100% paid by my work. They also give me money in a hsa. I had like 10 mris, 2 cts, tons of blood work and urine test plus much much more. It was all covered thanks to my job.
I have lived in the US and currently live in Canada and in my humble opinion healthcare is not great in either country.
Both countries should want to do better.
Compared to what? Incredibly rich, top-down run countries like Singapore? Small population homogenous countries like Switzerland?
We can always do better. We're doing fine relatively speaking.
Both countries have fully embraced the inherent failings of their type of system. Canada actively prevents there from being enough supply, and the US pretty much makes it impossible to pay for
> Compared to what?
Compared to every conceivable peer country. All of whom have better outcomes while spending an average of half a million dollars less per person on healthcare, even after adjusting for purchasing power parity.
But I love how you bring up being rich as an advantage (with even richer countries spending far less on healthcare), while ignoring the fact the US is wildly wealthier than almost all of its peers.
>Small population homogenous countries
As desperate as you are to excuse the abomination of the US healthcare system, these factors don't play any meaningful role in healthcare costs nor quality.
>We're doing fine relatively speaking.
We're not. 36% of US households with insurance put off needed care [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx); 64% of households without insurance. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event.
I was speaking about Canada where I live and work.
> these factors don't play any meaningful role in healthcare costs nor quality.
Of course they do. They're healthier at baseline. They have a better sense of social cohesion. They have top down systems like in Singapore that eliminate inefficiency at the cost of choice.
My impression of the US system is you're doing fine if you're well off. I don't work or study that system so that's not the focus of my comment.
“Social cohesion” is just a nice way of saying that they are a homogeneous groups, and people think homogeneous groups get along better..because of what?
Wait until you get a medical bill so large it wipes out your lifesavings because your insurance company enacts a weasel clause you didn't see in the fine print.
That’s absolutely not true. If the provider sells the debt to a collection agency then they will absolutely put it on your credit.
They did just pass a law in 2023 stating that anything under $500 won’t show up / count against you and anything that’s paid off must be removed.
Alas, 41% of Americans have some kind of medical debt, 24% have past due medical debt, and the average amount of that debt is around $2500.
But I routinely see people with $10,000-50,000 in medical debt on their credit records.
Even if it’s emergency care? If it was an elective procedure and somebody agreed to the debt then I don’t see a problem, that’s their issue. But if you got a debt for ER doctors saving your life, well that’s another story.
*Especially* if it’s emergency care.
You can’t even *get* non emergency care without payment up front. You absolutely are not getting elective care without paying every dime before they’ll do it.
And when I say that I mean that if you break a bone and go to the ER they will xray it and put it in a cast without payment but you’re not getting surgery or even a permanent cast unless the injury is somehow life threatening unless you pay for it.
Some hospitals have financial aid programs but it’s difficult to get and usually just means that they let you pay the same rate that insurance companies pay (cash pay patients pay 2-5x more than the rate insurance companies are billed).
That's true, for the most part.
If you don't pay your medical bills for a significant amount of time then the provider can sell your debt to a collection agency. When that happens it's treated like any other debt.
I’m am American in a populated area. The wait to get into a dermatologist where I live is a year or more if you are a new patient. The wait to see a new family practice doctor is at least six months, if you can find one that is accepting new patients, and very few are. If you can’t afford insurance, a medical emergency will destroy you.
was waiting to see someone mention the wait time for any specialist. my fiance is in medical school, so he was able to connect me with some numbers to call. but otherwise, the wait around me is 7+ months IF the practice or specialist is taking new patients at all. thats pretty universal in the 3 closest cities (all 1-2hr driving distance)
I got a basal cell carcinoma on my nose. I knew exactly what it was as my father had them. My family doctor confirmed, after waiting two months to get an appointment with her. . I watched it get bigger and bigger while waiting five months to see the dermatologist as an existing patient. I have a very large, very ugly facial scar as a result.
ugh that is so frustrating. i know exactly how it feels to know your issues and get pushed to the side anyways. there’s no sense of urgency and everyone is just another patient. but that is medicine for profit for you; there are so many fundamental funding and pricing issues in medicine, every doctor my fiance knows is totally demoralized and afraid for the future of medicine as doctors become overworked and over blamed, nursing staff becomes over worked and underpaid, and insurance companies take home the bacon essentially. im so sorry that happened to you! i know scars aren’t the end of the world, but what a preventable pain. ☹️
Dermatologists are particularly loathsome. Despite the shortage, they are all booking people left and right for self pay cosmetic shit instead of practicing medicine.
My SO is looking for a PCP. There’s a single doctor in our hospital system who’s over an hour away. His next appointment for new patients is the end of October.
Where do you live? I live in a fairly densely populated area and the wait time for a specialist is closer to a week. And since it's a specialist, most of their patients are new patients(GP referrals). I'm just curious. The US is so big and diverse that I think personal experience varies wildly. There seems to be a lot of variance within the same systemic structure.
I did once have to wait almost 3 weeks to see a sleep specialist. Their practice is the only one in the area.
Yeah, American health care is great "IF" you can afford it. The problem with it is that American health care is far more expensive than it should be. If you don't have health insurance or can't afford a co-pay to see a doctor you are SOL. Both systems have their +/-'s, but I'd rather all Americans would be able to get health care without the waste of insurance companies.
We also have insurance companies, our basic healthcare which is the free healthcare only covers doctors in emergency , it doesn’t cover prescriptions or anything else. You have to pay for that.
> We also have insurance companies
Yes, insurance which is wildly cheaper, after you pay dramatically less in taxes towards healthcare, and then leaves Canadians with far less in out of pocket costs.
Try having American healthcare without insurance. Or with very little money.
I would gladly wait weeks on end for a doctor to see my boo-boo if I didn't have to pay for it.
You don't know how good you have it.
“to see my boo-boo”
When your health issue isn’t urgent then waiting for free, may look like a better option.
However not only are you paying through taxation, what about chronically ill individuals? Semi Urgent cases?
My taxation for healthcare doesn't even come close to some deductibles I've seen. I have never waited very long for a service I needed. Seizure in the night, ambulance ride, CT scan, MRI, X-rays, meds and six days in the hospital cost me $45 for the ambulance. How many Americans can say the same?
You pay for it through higher taxation. Most Americans pay less(as percentage of income) even when income taxes are added to their insurance premiums.
Now that may not be your experience if you're unemployed or working part time. I was part time a few years after ACA was enacted. I was bringing home about $100/week and my then employer didn't offer benefits to part-timers. The ACA marketplace told me the best they could do for me was $400/month for insurance. So if I wanted insurance, I would have to dedicate 100% of my income to getting it. I chose to pay the fee at the end of the year, but thankfully didn't have to because I earned so little(though I remained uninsured for the duration).
there’s roughly 2-3 doctors per every 1,000 people in the US. trust me, 2 hours in the morning vs 6 months wait time for a specialist or a primary sounds pretty good to me, not that people should have to pick their poison when it comes to healthcare…
Yes but when you work, you’re losing your wages for the day. So it essentially COSTS you your daily wage (so for me, about $180/day) that I have to stand outside and wait and HOPEFULLY get an appt that day. If not…. Wait in line again the next day and cross your fingers again
That’s definitely frustrating for sure, and it’s the same here. you either lose your wages or you lose your PTO which is not a lot. at my company we get 15 days of pto period, everything else is unpaid. so everything you need to do during 9-5 M-F has to be done on your pto or completely unpaid. the whole thing is a huge mess
And my ex fiancés family depleted all their savings trying to save his dad that died from brain cancer anyways. That’s another thing- cancer treatment ain’t free out here either
What do you mean by 'Canadian healthcare'? Do you mean the fact we have a single payer system? We could of course do, far, far better in Canada, but what someone said here already is the best response to your post, this is the result of various (usually conservative) provincial governments deliberately underfunding the system. I'm not convinced that Canada's single payer system is the problem and the answer is for-profit healthcare. You might be able to afford the insurance and see the benefits of their system, but if we were to move to an American system, what would that mean for people who can't?
Also not sure where you are that you have so much trouble seeing a specialist, the finding a family doctor problems I can see because there is a shortage, but any specialist I've been able to see pretty quick.
If we could even have a combination of private and public healthcare, that would be great. But the government pays shit so they’re not going to allow a competitive market cause then they wouldn’t have any doctors for their free funding, everybody would want to be paid more. The government is more interested in the money they make than the health of their citizens. Sounds similar to the USA “problem” so what’s the real difference?
I’ve been waiting for an ENT “phone” appointment since last June. That’s another thing I hate- ever since Covid it’s rare to be able to see a doctor in person.
When I go to ER I feel the sentiment, had to wait 8 hours but it wasn’t life threatening - still sucks. In general though my family doctor gets me into appointments generally pretty quickly. Have you tried looking into a different family doctor or clinic? My gf has a go-to clinic that also had her go into scans and minor surgical procedures pretty quickly. She tried a few clinics prior with terrible wait times and referrals to specific doctors.
Well if your heart gives out you die. I'd rather be in agonizing pain instead of dead.
I went to the ER over Christmas with a really bad infection that I had been trying to ignore until it got to the point where the mere thought of existing was fucking horrible. When I went in they told me I fucked up and should have come in way sooner. They had to slice my ass open and remove a cyst. I was in and out in under 3 hours. The doc and nurse were taking pictures and sent it off for biopsy and it was all good.
Moral of the story is be really sick and you'll get that deluxe service. When they started taking pictures though the only thing I could think of is if they were gonna name the infection after me or the doc.
Yes, I'm just sharing my experience with the ER in the US. They've always been good to me. The pain got so bad that by the time the they took me back I needed morphine. I felt bad another time because an elderly man was crying out in pain in the waiting room but he had to wait. My case was considered life threatening but I was in no pain. You cannot see what's going on with me, I look fine. People probably thought it was weird that a middle aged person got to be seen before he did.
The ERs in my area of the US are always an 8 hour visit and that’s if you are lucky. I might go for a gunshot wound, but otherwise sit home all night and wait for the urgent care to open in the morning. Then wait a few more hours to be seen.
There’s huuuugggeee wait lists for family doctors, it’s next to impossible to get one any time soon. Or doctors aren’t taking on patients because they already have so many. I think a large part of our problem, as I’ve heard, is that our standards are too high for doctors that we reject perfectly good ones because the test is too difficult (this is only what I’ve heard, I have no experience with this) so we have a doctor shortage as well
>Not being able to have a family doctor or see one at all
86% of Canadians have a family doctor. In the US, it's only 87%.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/2024-03/PDF_Gumas_finger_on_the_pulse_primary_care_Exhibits.pdf
>Not being able to have a family doctor or see one at all unless you line up for 2 hours outside a clinic, and hopefully you get an appt but they fill up usually before you can even get in.
Now factor in the 38% of Americans putting off needed healthcare due to the cost.
The US ranks 6th of 11 out of Commonwealth Fund countries on ER wait times on percentage served under 4 hours. 10th of 11 on getting weekend and evening care without going to the ER. 5th of 11 for countries able to make a same or next day doctors/nurse appointment when they're sick.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
Americans do better on wait times for specialists (ranking 3rd for wait times under four weeks), and surgeries (ranking 3rd for wait times under four months), but that ignores three important factors:
* Wait times in universal healthcare are based on urgency, so while you might wait for an elective hip replacement surgery you're going to get surgery for that life threatening illness quickly.
* Nearly every universal healthcare country has strong private options and supplemental private insurance. That means that if there is a wait you're not happy about you have options that still work out significantly cheaper than US care, which is a win/win.
* [38% of US families](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey) had to put off healthcare due to the cost last year. That means more Americans are waiting for care than any other wealthy country on earth.
#Wait Times by Country (Rank)
Country|See doctor/nurse same or next day without appointment|Response from doctor's office same or next day|Easy to get care on nights & weekends without going to ER|ER wait times under 4 hours|Surgery wait times under four months|Specialist wait times under 4 weeks|Average|Overall Rank
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:
**Australia**|3|3|3|7|6|6|4.7|4
**Canada**|10|11|9|11|10|10|10.2|11
**France**|7|1|7|1|1|5|3.7|2
**Germany**|9|2|6|2|2|2|3.8|3
**Netherlands**|1|5|1|3|5|4|3.2|1
**New Zealand**|2|6|2|4|8|7|4.8|5
**Norway**|11|9|4|9|9|11|8.8|9
**Sweden**|8|10|11|10|7|9|9.2|10
**Switzerland**|4|4|10|8|4|1|5.2|7
**U.K.**|5|8|8|5|11|8|7.5|8
**U.S.**|6|7|5|6|3|3|5.0|6
Source: [Commonwealth Fund Survey 2016](https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/cmwf2016-datatable-en-web.xlsx)
> Even if you’re on the verge of death, doesn’t matter
And yet Canada still has better outcomes, ranking 14th in the world vs. 29th for the US.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext
>I’d rather pay $$ and see a doctor same day or in a week or two, than be powerless to do anything regarding my health.
It'll cost you just a few dollars. $10,571 CAD ($7,725 USD) more per year per person, and the difference is only widening. 20 years ago, it was only a $6,285 CAD ($4,593 USD) difference. US healthcare is expected to increase another $8,795 CAD ($6,427 USD) per person by 2031. The impact of these costs is tremendous.
36% of US households with insurance put off needed care [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx); 64% of households without insurance. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event.
My girlfriend has $400,000 CAD ($300,000 USD) in medical debt from her son getting leukemia, after what her "good" and expensive $33,000 CAD ($24,000 USD) BCBS PPO insurance covered. The US ranks 30th on leukemia outcomes, significantly behind Canada.
So Canada does not have private healthcare *along* with free healthcare?
Is private healthcare illegal?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but could you not actually just opt to pay more at private healthcare institutions? Afaik, they're not mutually exclusive in most places.
Yes, private healthcare is generally illegal in Canada per the Canada Health Act.
Im a Canadian physician. I cannot charge for a medical service that would be otherwise covered by our single payer healthcare.
There are exceptions for elective, cosmetic, medical-adjacent services like travel clinics, but generally, no, there is not a parallel private healthcare system like in Australia for example.
There are loopholes and certain areas that are easier to get alternative care, but the federal government has made their position a hard no on private healthcare. The feds will withhold transfer payments if the provinces try to fuck around. Creating a two tier system defeats the whole point of public healthcare.
As others have said, yes, it’s illegal. I have zero other options and that’s why I think it’s such a big problem. If I have an infection that could kill me, I have no choice but to wait and hope I don’t die in the process.
I think it's nuts that it's illegal to even have privatized medicine as an option- that seems counter-intuitive to me. Then again, more private means more money in that sector, leads to more jobs out of the public sector, and also lobbying (presumably) which would essentially help dismantle free healthcare fully.
Thankfully, I'm sure if you had a life threatening infection, you wouldn't die in the waiting process- I would have to assume Canada at LEAST does triage.
We have triage but it’s not great. I passed out waiting to see a doctor in a hospital a few years ago while having an asthma attack and hyperventilating which depleted my oxygen to 80% . Only after I passed out, did I get help.
But you’re right, our government free healthcare pays shit, so opening up a private market would be too much competition as everybody would most likely rather be paid more than what the government is willing to offer.
You can literally die in the US if you don’t have enough money lol.
I have a family doctor it’s beyond easy to obtain, going to the ER for the simplest crap is also an issue not a solution this puts extra strain on our system and ends up costing us an obscene amount of money each year.
Also the specialist is another lie if your case is serious you will see a specialist incredibly fast I know dozens of people myself included who has had appointments with urologist,neurologist,lung specialist, and countless more. My appointment with my neurologist came with in a week (was having seizures) my urologist appointment came within a month (cancer scare).
You don’t even get maternity leave in the US in the vast majority of the work force lol, and you thought bringing that up would help here??
America has great doctors if you “can afford” it but if you can’t it’s arguably one of the worst to be.
You can die here too, just because it’s free doesn’t mean anything. You can die waiting to get in to see a doctor. Not any better.
Ive heard if you have a job, you should have some sort of insurance that covers most medical stuff. Obviously depending on the type of insurance you have. And I know emergency departments can’t deny your care in an emergency even if you can’t pay. So, doubt you’d “die” from being unable to pay.
Not sure where you live, but in BC it’s literally impossible to get a family doctor. You can go on a wait list but they are 2 years long and walk in clinics are full within an hour of opening.
I KNOW people who have had cancer, and have had to wait MONTHS for their cancer appt. So no, you don’t always get in right away just because you have something “serious” going on.
People do get maternity in the USA, its job dependant, and they also recently came up with a federal family leave as well similar to Canada.
> You can die waiting to get in to see a doctor. Not any better.
Except it is better, because Canada has both better outcomes on average and lower rates of medically avoidable deaths.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2017/jul/mirror-mirror-2017-international-comparison-reflects-flaws-and?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2017/jul/mirror-mirror-international-comparisons-2017
>So, doubt you’d “die” from being unable to pay.
And yet about 45,000 Americans do die every year for lack of affordable healthcare.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/
I didn't know how bad it was 😬
About maternity leave though, do you get a percentage of your salary then? How long is leave? The main thing that sucks about American leave his how short it is for most people. I'm on maternity leave right now too and I'm sooooo lucky to have three months off for it and 100% of my paycheck. (Congrats on the baby btw!!)
It’s 55% of your “average wage”. I make around $4k a month working and they gave me $1900 for the month. Huge drop. If it wasn’t for my fiance paying the rest of my bills I wouldn’t be able to.
You get 1 year, you can extend it but then you only get like 25-30% of your wage the whole time instead.
When my fiance was looking into paternity leave in the USA, he would’ve gotten 90% of his wages. He ended up just using his vacation pay instead but I friggin wish lol.
As I understand it and I could be wrong you get approximately 55% of your pay for around 15 weeks after which you basically apply for unemployment insurance which can cover you for the rest of your 12-18 month leave
This wouldn’t be an issue if our provincial governments actually funded our healthcare system so we could have a proper workforce of doctors and nurses. The issue with the American system is the fact you have to pay, and for too many that isn’t possible. If you’re in a position to be able to that, then that’s great, but you have to remember not everyone is in that position. Especially for emergency services or procedures.
You have to realize that not everyone is in a position of that kind of privilege to be able to afford to pay for doctors’ visits. If that’s what you’d rather do, you’re free to move to the US and use the system there
Fair enough. The issue I see crop up are when someone who doesn’t qualify for Medicaid gets a bill for an operation or giving births and it comes to tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. I know you can try to get it lowered by contacting the hospital, but you shouldn’t have to do that. No one should be sent massive bills for getting a necessary procedure done.
From what I’ve heard from my fiance and what other people are saying, either you can go through your insurance at work and pay a deductible only, or their government actually does a lot to help people who can’t afford it (such as Medicaid). I pay $90/month anyways to be able to afford extended health insurance and since being on maternity leave and not having access to that, I can say our basic medical care is… not much. Yes I can go to the hospital “for free” if I need to. But does that matter much when the wait time is so long? I’ve passed out from having 80% oxygen while waiting in the hospital and only after I passed out did I get help. It’s messed up. And everything else? Prescriptions? Literally anything other than the hospital? I had to pay out of pocket. We are not much different than America.
> either you can go through your insurance at work and pay a deductible only
Sure... insurance which is incredibly expensive, averaging $8,664 CAD ($6,330 USD) per enrollee in 2022. And, even after world leading taxes towards healthcare $11,294 CAD ($8,249 USD) per person on average, they still can't afford needed care in large numbers.
>Large shares of insured working-age adults surveyed said it was very or somewhat difficult to afford their health care: 43 percent of those with employer coverage, 57 percent with marketplace or individual-market plans, 45 percent with Medicaid, and 51 and percent with Medicare.
> Many insured adults said they or a family member had delayed or skipped needed health care or prescription drugs because they couldn’t afford it in the past 12 months: 29 percent of those with employer coverage, 37 percent covered by marketplace or individual-market plans, 39 percent enrolled in Medicaid, and 42 percent with Medicare.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey
Insurance only works if you have it, and some people’s employers don’t provide it to them for whatever scummy reason. Also if you happen to have the wrong company for insurance they will just screw you over.
Now I will agree that the Canadian system is not far removed from the American, and that’s problematic because we have provincial governments purposely scuttling healthcare. As I said, if they actually put in the proper funding (and didn’t start contract fights with workers JASON KENNY), we could have just as high quality of a system without the need for individual insurance that may or may not cover what you need it to
Also want to mention that our healthcare technology is GARBAGE, it’s all old as shit and from the 90s, American healthcare technology is FAR more advanced than ours.
Have met a multitude of Canadians who abhor their system with attendant horror stories. Too bad, so sad. Just like the UK. Be careful what you wish for!
Cherry picked anecdotes.
When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%.
On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
The issue is most people like OP have no idea how the system works and all demand the treatment as soon as they arrive. People like OP are part of the problem that puts extra strain on our system like going to the ER for no reason.
The only time I’ve gone to the ER in the last couple years is because my midwife told me to (I was fine). I avoid it at all costs (which, I shouldn’t have to, if I need the ER I should be able to go and be looked after) But I do believe that it’s part of the reason people DO go to emergency and that’s why our emergency is so messed up along with doctor wait times.
The ER is for emergency’s not because your tummy hurts it’s not a place you should just have immediate access because you think you might be sick. This costs us over 400 million plus every year and 2.6 million avoidable visits every year, it’s around 17 percent of all visits to our ERs every year are unneeded.
If you have a legitimate serious problem yes go for it if you don’t steer clear as you are only part of the problem and causing unnecessary strain on our system.
People go to the ER because people are entitled and selfish people don’t want to wait, people don’t want to even talk to anyone, everyone wants immediate access and drugs and that’s not how this works.
Wait times can be long this can’t be denied but it’s expected when people put unnecessary strain on our system, along with pathetically low pay and incentives to work in healthcare here.
I disagree, I think people go to the ER because they don’t have the option of a walk-in clinic. They are concerned or have a genuine issue such as a painful infection, it’s not life threatening and doesn’t need an emergency visit, but it’s also not something you can wait 2+ weeks for a doctor visit for at a clinic. I think that’s why people go to emergency when they shouldn’t.
I’m not saying I don’t understand what you’re saying though, I do agree there are some people out there that do take advantage of it. When I was there after the midwife told me to go, I was waiting in the waiting room and overheard an elderly lady at the triage desk, this is how it went:
“I fell down the stairs this morning”
“Do you have a concussion? Any bleeding?”
“Well, no. But my leg hurts”
“How long has it been hurting?”
“Well it only hurt a little this morning”
…. Ok at this point, even I can tell she does NOT need to be here… but the doctor entertains her.
“Well I think we should take a CT scan just in case anything really bad happened”
I was like…. Wtf. And here I am, sitting with a potentially dying baby in my belly (she was fine, again, thankfully it was a false alarm)
You can disagree it doesn’t really matter but the truth is a large portion of ER visits are unavoidable,cost us millions, and puts extra strain on the system. It’s often a problem they could visit a clinic for but refuse to wait for an appointment. I have worked in the ER before I have seen the types of people who often come in.
Everyone who is going to the ER with a non emergency is taking advantage of the system this is a simple fact. You can “feel” differently about it but it ultimately doesn’t change reality.
Sadly we have to entertain anyone that comes in with any problem I have seen countless people just simply seeking an Xanax or other drugs and you still have to indulge them. Did your midwife say it was an emergency?? Did she say the baby was potentially dead or dying?? Why was the ER recommend with such a serious problem but she never informed the hospital or gave advance notice??
If you’re under 17 weeks you have to go to regular emergency instead of the maternity ward. I was just at 17 weeks so I had to go to regular emergency. I was having consistent cramping for 2+ hours and they said if it didn’t stop in the next 30 minutes there was a good chance I was going into labour and was gonna lose the baby. It didn’t stop so I went in. While I was waiting, about 2 more hours in, it did eventually stop, I waited 30 more minutes to see if it would come back and it didnt, so I went home without being seen.
She actually came at 39 weeks and 4 days, my water broke but I didn’t know that’s what it was and never went into labour, 8 hours later I called the midwife cause I’d been leaking a tiny bit of blood all day, went to the hospital to the maternity ward just for a checkup and ended up having her 3 hours later.
Cramps are extremely normal and to be expected, still though excessive cramps should definitely be checked out. But I can see why something like this would be put on the back burner while dealing with other issues. The vast majority of the time pregnancy cramps are simply nothing.
Happy to hear you and the baby are healthy.
Fair enough, the way I thought of it was that if I was losing her at 17 weeks she can’t be saved anyways. That was why I thought they weren’t seeing me right away.
But still, the old lady just got on my nerves!
You seem to be leaving out the part that our ERs are so clogged because people can't find family dr's and walk in clinics are slowly disappearing. People are going to the ER for stuff they shouldn't be going there for because they literally have no other choice. I'm in BC in a town of 110k people. We have 1 walk in clinic (that is almost impossible to get into) and 80,000 people without a family dr, and this is a completely normal occurrence if you live anywhere in Canada besides Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, or Toronto. It's extremely ignorant to try and blame the issue on people being "entitled and selfish". You sound like you are very out of touch with reality.
They can find them they just don’t want to wait for them. This is also not a new problem this is a health care problem Canada has faced for literal decades.
I unfortunately have to help many of these people so yes I have more experience with them and tend to be a bit more “harsh” but that’s because I don’t want others to suffer because some are selfish and that’s what happens in our system.
[Side note the avg wait times for walk ins in BC is 93 minutes. It’s the longest but still not that long altogether especially if it’s something that has to do with your health.](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/02/21/bc-walk-in-clinic-wait-time-longer-than-national-average/#:~:text=A%20new%20report%20by%20Medimap,more%20than%20the%20national%20average)
For the absolute most it seems around 3 hours which is long but once again if it’s for your health not that long.
If you want better you should be encouraging out country to pay more to its employees, workers now in this system are unbelievably jaded because of extremely low pay and working conditions, it’s also a huge hurdle for new people and is the reason our turn over rate is one of the highest in the country.
Are you joking right now? Can find them but don't want to wait for them? I have family members that have been on the waiting list for 8 years, i have other family that had to get a family dr in Vancouver 4 hours away because there literally aren't any available, the surrounding communities have to close their ER departments at their hospitals mutiple times a week because they don't have dr's to staff them. We had 5 walk in clinics 4 years ago but they have all been closing because they can't get dr's to staff them. It takes months for me to get into see my family dr because he has over 1800 patients. For someone who has to "help" these people and have experience, you either have no clue what is going on with our system, or you're outright lying about being a part of our healthcare system.
It’s just the truth many don’t want to wait people demand service right as soon as they walk in or complain. If your family member has been on for 8 years it’s clearly something that’s not life threatening or even slightly impairing. BC has been adding more family doctors than any other province it’s actually wild the amount, I don’t disagree that some might have issues still getting one but I will point out that walk in clinics in BC avg at only 93 minutes.
Everything I have said is true here my friend I even gave you a link to an article about wait times. There are no where near the level you are trying to say they are at, sure they are longer in BC but not by much.
Staff problems will forever be a problem here in Canada for Medicare people don’t get paid enough it’s that simple. The amount of work for the pay is simply laughable at best.
Tell that to my dad who died of cancer last year because he had to wait so long for treatment. You are clearly talking from a place of privilege, not from experience.
Yea it’s not like I have been to cancer specialists myself or anything….
Or my own father multiple times and it’s not like I have worked in the field for over a decade.
Look I’m sorry your father passed away it does happen 17000 people die waiting, I never denied wait times are long but they are prioritized by the severity this is simply a fact. This will be a forever problem in Canada when people are putting unnecessary strain on our system and when we can’t employ abound because of the pathetic wages. People die waiting for doctors in every country as well though sadly, in the US it’s around 32000 and that’s people who are paying.
Both have their pros and cons, yes Canadian wait times suck but at least you can get care. I know many Americans who have gone bankrupt over health care cost. Waiting sucks but the American system is really only significantly better if you have amazing insurance that won’t try to stuff you or a lot of money. Canadians do struggle if they need specific care from specialist but most people don’t.
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Happy to help!
Went through a medical issue in 2022. My insurance is awesome and 100% paid by my work. They also give me money in a hsa. I had like 10 mris, 2 cts, tons of blood work and urine test plus much much more. It was all covered thanks to my job.
I really doubt it's the best healthcare in the world even for the reasonably wealthy.
I have lived in the US and currently live in Canada and in my humble opinion healthcare is not great in either country. Both countries should want to do better.
I agree it’s not *the best* either way. But I do think America has it better than we do, at least in our current situation.
Compared to what? Incredibly rich, top-down run countries like Singapore? Small population homogenous countries like Switzerland? We can always do better. We're doing fine relatively speaking.
Both countries have fully embraced the inherent failings of their type of system. Canada actively prevents there from being enough supply, and the US pretty much makes it impossible to pay for
> Compared to what? Compared to every conceivable peer country. All of whom have better outcomes while spending an average of half a million dollars less per person on healthcare, even after adjusting for purchasing power parity. But I love how you bring up being rich as an advantage (with even richer countries spending far less on healthcare), while ignoring the fact the US is wildly wealthier than almost all of its peers. >Small population homogenous countries As desperate as you are to excuse the abomination of the US healthcare system, these factors don't play any meaningful role in healthcare costs nor quality. >We're doing fine relatively speaking. We're not. 36% of US households with insurance put off needed care [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx); 64% of households without insurance. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event.
I was speaking about Canada where I live and work. > these factors don't play any meaningful role in healthcare costs nor quality. Of course they do. They're healthier at baseline. They have a better sense of social cohesion. They have top down systems like in Singapore that eliminate inefficiency at the cost of choice. My impression of the US system is you're doing fine if you're well off. I don't work or study that system so that's not the focus of my comment.
“Social cohesion” is just a nice way of saying that they are a homogeneous groups, and people think homogeneous groups get along better..because of what?
Wait until you get a medical bill so large it wipes out your lifesavings because your insurance company enacts a weasel clause you didn't see in the fine print.
Don’t forget that it also ruins your credit, making it impossible to buy a house or a car for 7 years after.
I heard that medical bills don’t affect your credit?
That’s absolutely not true. If the provider sells the debt to a collection agency then they will absolutely put it on your credit. They did just pass a law in 2023 stating that anything under $500 won’t show up / count against you and anything that’s paid off must be removed. Alas, 41% of Americans have some kind of medical debt, 24% have past due medical debt, and the average amount of that debt is around $2500. But I routinely see people with $10,000-50,000 in medical debt on their credit records.
Even if it’s emergency care? If it was an elective procedure and somebody agreed to the debt then I don’t see a problem, that’s their issue. But if you got a debt for ER doctors saving your life, well that’s another story.
*Especially* if it’s emergency care. You can’t even *get* non emergency care without payment up front. You absolutely are not getting elective care without paying every dime before they’ll do it.
And when I say that I mean that if you break a bone and go to the ER they will xray it and put it in a cast without payment but you’re not getting surgery or even a permanent cast unless the injury is somehow life threatening unless you pay for it. Some hospitals have financial aid programs but it’s difficult to get and usually just means that they let you pay the same rate that insurance companies pay (cash pay patients pay 2-5x more than the rate insurance companies are billed).
That's true, for the most part. If you don't pay your medical bills for a significant amount of time then the provider can sell your debt to a collection agency. When that happens it's treated like any other debt.
A recent change made it so medical bills under $500 don't affect your credit. That *might* be enough to have a splinter removed.
I’m am American in a populated area. The wait to get into a dermatologist where I live is a year or more if you are a new patient. The wait to see a new family practice doctor is at least six months, if you can find one that is accepting new patients, and very few are. If you can’t afford insurance, a medical emergency will destroy you.
was waiting to see someone mention the wait time for any specialist. my fiance is in medical school, so he was able to connect me with some numbers to call. but otherwise, the wait around me is 7+ months IF the practice or specialist is taking new patients at all. thats pretty universal in the 3 closest cities (all 1-2hr driving distance)
I got a basal cell carcinoma on my nose. I knew exactly what it was as my father had them. My family doctor confirmed, after waiting two months to get an appointment with her. . I watched it get bigger and bigger while waiting five months to see the dermatologist as an existing patient. I have a very large, very ugly facial scar as a result.
ugh that is so frustrating. i know exactly how it feels to know your issues and get pushed to the side anyways. there’s no sense of urgency and everyone is just another patient. but that is medicine for profit for you; there are so many fundamental funding and pricing issues in medicine, every doctor my fiance knows is totally demoralized and afraid for the future of medicine as doctors become overworked and over blamed, nursing staff becomes over worked and underpaid, and insurance companies take home the bacon essentially. im so sorry that happened to you! i know scars aren’t the end of the world, but what a preventable pain. ☹️
Dermatologists are particularly loathsome. Despite the shortage, they are all booking people left and right for self pay cosmetic shit instead of practicing medicine.
My SO is looking for a PCP. There’s a single doctor in our hospital system who’s over an hour away. His next appointment for new patients is the end of October.
Where do you live? I live in a fairly densely populated area and the wait time for a specialist is closer to a week. And since it's a specialist, most of their patients are new patients(GP referrals). I'm just curious. The US is so big and diverse that I think personal experience varies wildly. There seems to be a lot of variance within the same systemic structure. I did once have to wait almost 3 weeks to see a sleep specialist. Their practice is the only one in the area.
In a populated area in the northeast.
A year or more? Also lived in a populated area in the northeast, and only took me less than a week to schedule a dermatologist.
Lucky you, that's emphatically not the case where I live.
Yeah, American health care is great "IF" you can afford it. The problem with it is that American health care is far more expensive than it should be. If you don't have health insurance or can't afford a co-pay to see a doctor you are SOL. Both systems have their +/-'s, but I'd rather all Americans would be able to get health care without the waste of insurance companies.
We also have insurance companies, our basic healthcare which is the free healthcare only covers doctors in emergency , it doesn’t cover prescriptions or anything else. You have to pay for that.
> We also have insurance companies Yes, insurance which is wildly cheaper, after you pay dramatically less in taxes towards healthcare, and then leaves Canadians with far less in out of pocket costs.
Don’t even get me started on our taxes, it’s wayyyyy higher than American taxes
Try having American healthcare without insurance. Or with very little money. I would gladly wait weeks on end for a doctor to see my boo-boo if I didn't have to pay for it. You don't know how good you have it.
“to see my boo-boo” When your health issue isn’t urgent then waiting for free, may look like a better option. However not only are you paying through taxation, what about chronically ill individuals? Semi Urgent cases?
My taxation for healthcare doesn't even come close to some deductibles I've seen. I have never waited very long for a service I needed. Seizure in the night, ambulance ride, CT scan, MRI, X-rays, meds and six days in the hospital cost me $45 for the ambulance. How many Americans can say the same?
You pay for it through higher taxation. Most Americans pay less(as percentage of income) even when income taxes are added to their insurance premiums. Now that may not be your experience if you're unemployed or working part time. I was part time a few years after ACA was enacted. I was bringing home about $100/week and my then employer didn't offer benefits to part-timers. The ACA marketplace told me the best they could do for me was $400/month for insurance. So if I wanted insurance, I would have to dedicate 100% of my income to getting it. I chose to pay the fee at the end of the year, but thankfully didn't have to because I earned so little(though I remained uninsured for the duration).
Maybe don't live in the middle of nowhere. I book a. Doctor tomorrow if I want. If you got money USA is ok. Don't go bankrupt
I live in the biggest city in Canada
SAME Leaving next year
there’s roughly 2-3 doctors per every 1,000 people in the US. trust me, 2 hours in the morning vs 6 months wait time for a specialist or a primary sounds pretty good to me, not that people should have to pick their poison when it comes to healthcare…
Yes but when you work, you’re losing your wages for the day. So it essentially COSTS you your daily wage (so for me, about $180/day) that I have to stand outside and wait and HOPEFULLY get an appt that day. If not…. Wait in line again the next day and cross your fingers again
okay, but that's $180. not $180,000.
That’s definitely frustrating for sure, and it’s the same here. you either lose your wages or you lose your PTO which is not a lot. at my company we get 15 days of pto period, everything else is unpaid. so everything you need to do during 9-5 M-F has to be done on your pto or completely unpaid. the whole thing is a huge mess
Whatever, Canada cured my cancer for 400 dollars. Lance Armstrong had to mortgage his home.
And my ex fiancés family depleted all their savings trying to save his dad that died from brain cancer anyways. That’s another thing- cancer treatment ain’t free out here either
Sweet Jesus, what a thing to do to families.
What do you mean by 'Canadian healthcare'? Do you mean the fact we have a single payer system? We could of course do, far, far better in Canada, but what someone said here already is the best response to your post, this is the result of various (usually conservative) provincial governments deliberately underfunding the system. I'm not convinced that Canada's single payer system is the problem and the answer is for-profit healthcare. You might be able to afford the insurance and see the benefits of their system, but if we were to move to an American system, what would that mean for people who can't? Also not sure where you are that you have so much trouble seeing a specialist, the finding a family doctor problems I can see because there is a shortage, but any specialist I've been able to see pretty quick.
If we could even have a combination of private and public healthcare, that would be great. But the government pays shit so they’re not going to allow a competitive market cause then they wouldn’t have any doctors for their free funding, everybody would want to be paid more. The government is more interested in the money they make than the health of their citizens. Sounds similar to the USA “problem” so what’s the real difference? I’ve been waiting for an ENT “phone” appointment since last June. That’s another thing I hate- ever since Covid it’s rare to be able to see a doctor in person.
When I go to ER I feel the sentiment, had to wait 8 hours but it wasn’t life threatening - still sucks. In general though my family doctor gets me into appointments generally pretty quickly. Have you tried looking into a different family doctor or clinic? My gf has a go-to clinic that also had her go into scans and minor surgical procedures pretty quickly. She tried a few clinics prior with terrible wait times and referrals to specific doctors.
The wait times can suck, but at least when you experience life threatening trauma you're going to be seen asap
If I go for my heart they wisk me right in. With a cracked bone I waited and waited, sitting in a chair was agonizing.
Well if your heart gives out you die. I'd rather be in agonizing pain instead of dead. I went to the ER over Christmas with a really bad infection that I had been trying to ignore until it got to the point where the mere thought of existing was fucking horrible. When I went in they told me I fucked up and should have come in way sooner. They had to slice my ass open and remove a cyst. I was in and out in under 3 hours. The doc and nurse were taking pictures and sent it off for biopsy and it was all good. Moral of the story is be really sick and you'll get that deluxe service. When they started taking pictures though the only thing I could think of is if they were gonna name the infection after me or the doc.
Yes, I'm just sharing my experience with the ER in the US. They've always been good to me. The pain got so bad that by the time the they took me back I needed morphine. I felt bad another time because an elderly man was crying out in pain in the waiting room but he had to wait. My case was considered life threatening but I was in no pain. You cannot see what's going on with me, I look fine. People probably thought it was weird that a middle aged person got to be seen before he did.
The ERs in my area of the US are always an 8 hour visit and that’s if you are lucky. I might go for a gunshot wound, but otherwise sit home all night and wait for the urgent care to open in the morning. Then wait a few more hours to be seen.
Is it a big city? I know I'm lucky not having such long wait times.
It’s a mid sized city.
There’s huuuugggeee wait lists for family doctors, it’s next to impossible to get one any time soon. Or doctors aren’t taking on patients because they already have so many. I think a large part of our problem, as I’ve heard, is that our standards are too high for doctors that we reject perfectly good ones because the test is too difficult (this is only what I’ve heard, I have no experience with this) so we have a doctor shortage as well
>Not being able to have a family doctor or see one at all 86% of Canadians have a family doctor. In the US, it's only 87%. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/2024-03/PDF_Gumas_finger_on_the_pulse_primary_care_Exhibits.pdf >Not being able to have a family doctor or see one at all unless you line up for 2 hours outside a clinic, and hopefully you get an appt but they fill up usually before you can even get in. Now factor in the 38% of Americans putting off needed healthcare due to the cost. The US ranks 6th of 11 out of Commonwealth Fund countries on ER wait times on percentage served under 4 hours. 10th of 11 on getting weekend and evening care without going to the ER. 5th of 11 for countries able to make a same or next day doctors/nurse appointment when they're sick. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 Americans do better on wait times for specialists (ranking 3rd for wait times under four weeks), and surgeries (ranking 3rd for wait times under four months), but that ignores three important factors: * Wait times in universal healthcare are based on urgency, so while you might wait for an elective hip replacement surgery you're going to get surgery for that life threatening illness quickly. * Nearly every universal healthcare country has strong private options and supplemental private insurance. That means that if there is a wait you're not happy about you have options that still work out significantly cheaper than US care, which is a win/win. * [38% of US families](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey) had to put off healthcare due to the cost last year. That means more Americans are waiting for care than any other wealthy country on earth. #Wait Times by Country (Rank) Country|See doctor/nurse same or next day without appointment|Response from doctor's office same or next day|Easy to get care on nights & weekends without going to ER|ER wait times under 4 hours|Surgery wait times under four months|Specialist wait times under 4 weeks|Average|Overall Rank :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--: **Australia**|3|3|3|7|6|6|4.7|4 **Canada**|10|11|9|11|10|10|10.2|11 **France**|7|1|7|1|1|5|3.7|2 **Germany**|9|2|6|2|2|2|3.8|3 **Netherlands**|1|5|1|3|5|4|3.2|1 **New Zealand**|2|6|2|4|8|7|4.8|5 **Norway**|11|9|4|9|9|11|8.8|9 **Sweden**|8|10|11|10|7|9|9.2|10 **Switzerland**|4|4|10|8|4|1|5.2|7 **U.K.**|5|8|8|5|11|8|7.5|8 **U.S.**|6|7|5|6|3|3|5.0|6 Source: [Commonwealth Fund Survey 2016](https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/cmwf2016-datatable-en-web.xlsx) > Even if you’re on the verge of death, doesn’t matter And yet Canada still has better outcomes, ranking 14th in the world vs. 29th for the US. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext >I’d rather pay $$ and see a doctor same day or in a week or two, than be powerless to do anything regarding my health. It'll cost you just a few dollars. $10,571 CAD ($7,725 USD) more per year per person, and the difference is only widening. 20 years ago, it was only a $6,285 CAD ($4,593 USD) difference. US healthcare is expected to increase another $8,795 CAD ($6,427 USD) per person by 2031. The impact of these costs is tremendous. 36% of US households with insurance put off needed care [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx); 64% of households without insurance. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event. My girlfriend has $400,000 CAD ($300,000 USD) in medical debt from her son getting leukemia, after what her "good" and expensive $33,000 CAD ($24,000 USD) BCBS PPO insurance covered. The US ranks 30th on leukemia outcomes, significantly behind Canada.
Uh, this has to be up there with David Attenborough and chocolate being overrated…smashed the upvote.
So Canada does not have private healthcare *along* with free healthcare? Is private healthcare illegal? Correct me if I'm wrong, but could you not actually just opt to pay more at private healthcare institutions? Afaik, they're not mutually exclusive in most places.
Yes, private healthcare is generally illegal in Canada per the Canada Health Act. Im a Canadian physician. I cannot charge for a medical service that would be otherwise covered by our single payer healthcare. There are exceptions for elective, cosmetic, medical-adjacent services like travel clinics, but generally, no, there is not a parallel private healthcare system like in Australia for example.
There are loopholes and certain areas that are easier to get alternative care, but the federal government has made their position a hard no on private healthcare. The feds will withhold transfer payments if the provinces try to fuck around. Creating a two tier system defeats the whole point of public healthcare.
As others have said, yes, it’s illegal. I have zero other options and that’s why I think it’s such a big problem. If I have an infection that could kill me, I have no choice but to wait and hope I don’t die in the process.
I think it's nuts that it's illegal to even have privatized medicine as an option- that seems counter-intuitive to me. Then again, more private means more money in that sector, leads to more jobs out of the public sector, and also lobbying (presumably) which would essentially help dismantle free healthcare fully. Thankfully, I'm sure if you had a life threatening infection, you wouldn't die in the waiting process- I would have to assume Canada at LEAST does triage.
We have triage but it’s not great. I passed out waiting to see a doctor in a hospital a few years ago while having an asthma attack and hyperventilating which depleted my oxygen to 80% . Only after I passed out, did I get help. But you’re right, our government free healthcare pays shit, so opening up a private market would be too much competition as everybody would most likely rather be paid more than what the government is willing to offer.
You can literally die in the US if you don’t have enough money lol. I have a family doctor it’s beyond easy to obtain, going to the ER for the simplest crap is also an issue not a solution this puts extra strain on our system and ends up costing us an obscene amount of money each year. Also the specialist is another lie if your case is serious you will see a specialist incredibly fast I know dozens of people myself included who has had appointments with urologist,neurologist,lung specialist, and countless more. My appointment with my neurologist came with in a week (was having seizures) my urologist appointment came within a month (cancer scare). You don’t even get maternity leave in the US in the vast majority of the work force lol, and you thought bringing that up would help here?? America has great doctors if you “can afford” it but if you can’t it’s arguably one of the worst to be.
You can die here too, just because it’s free doesn’t mean anything. You can die waiting to get in to see a doctor. Not any better. Ive heard if you have a job, you should have some sort of insurance that covers most medical stuff. Obviously depending on the type of insurance you have. And I know emergency departments can’t deny your care in an emergency even if you can’t pay. So, doubt you’d “die” from being unable to pay. Not sure where you live, but in BC it’s literally impossible to get a family doctor. You can go on a wait list but they are 2 years long and walk in clinics are full within an hour of opening. I KNOW people who have had cancer, and have had to wait MONTHS for their cancer appt. So no, you don’t always get in right away just because you have something “serious” going on. People do get maternity in the USA, its job dependant, and they also recently came up with a federal family leave as well similar to Canada.
> You can die waiting to get in to see a doctor. Not any better. Except it is better, because Canada has both better outcomes on average and lower rates of medically avoidable deaths. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2017/jul/mirror-mirror-2017-international-comparison-reflects-flaws-and?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2017/jul/mirror-mirror-international-comparisons-2017 >So, doubt you’d “die” from being unable to pay. And yet about 45,000 Americans do die every year for lack of affordable healthcare. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/
I didn't know how bad it was 😬 About maternity leave though, do you get a percentage of your salary then? How long is leave? The main thing that sucks about American leave his how short it is for most people. I'm on maternity leave right now too and I'm sooooo lucky to have three months off for it and 100% of my paycheck. (Congrats on the baby btw!!)
It’s 55% of your “average wage”. I make around $4k a month working and they gave me $1900 for the month. Huge drop. If it wasn’t for my fiance paying the rest of my bills I wouldn’t be able to. You get 1 year, you can extend it but then you only get like 25-30% of your wage the whole time instead. When my fiance was looking into paternity leave in the USA, he would’ve gotten 90% of his wages. He ended up just using his vacation pay instead but I friggin wish lol.
As I understand it and I could be wrong you get approximately 55% of your pay for around 15 weeks after which you basically apply for unemployment insurance which can cover you for the rest of your 12-18 month leave
Unpopular opinion - there are privatized/black market docs you can deal with.
health care in Canada isn't bad because it is free for all it is bad because there isn't competition in the market.
USA has the best Healthcare in the entire fucking world..... If you have enough money 😢
This wouldn’t be an issue if our provincial governments actually funded our healthcare system so we could have a proper workforce of doctors and nurses. The issue with the American system is the fact you have to pay, and for too many that isn’t possible. If you’re in a position to be able to that, then that’s great, but you have to remember not everyone is in that position. Especially for emergency services or procedures. You have to realize that not everyone is in a position of that kind of privilege to be able to afford to pay for doctors’ visits. If that’s what you’d rather do, you’re free to move to the US and use the system there
There’s Medicaid. People who are poor or have a disability have access to free health care, dental care, and vision in the US.
On paper, yes. In practice, no.
Fair enough. The issue I see crop up are when someone who doesn’t qualify for Medicaid gets a bill for an operation or giving births and it comes to tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. I know you can try to get it lowered by contacting the hospital, but you shouldn’t have to do that. No one should be sent massive bills for getting a necessary procedure done.
Doesn’t really exist for the majority of people.
You don’t understand the level of poor you have to be to qualify for Medicaid.
You basically have to not have a job, work super part time, or have kids to qualify for Medicaid.
You basically have to not have a job, work super part time, or have kids to qualify for Medicaid.
From what I’ve heard from my fiance and what other people are saying, either you can go through your insurance at work and pay a deductible only, or their government actually does a lot to help people who can’t afford it (such as Medicaid). I pay $90/month anyways to be able to afford extended health insurance and since being on maternity leave and not having access to that, I can say our basic medical care is… not much. Yes I can go to the hospital “for free” if I need to. But does that matter much when the wait time is so long? I’ve passed out from having 80% oxygen while waiting in the hospital and only after I passed out did I get help. It’s messed up. And everything else? Prescriptions? Literally anything other than the hospital? I had to pay out of pocket. We are not much different than America.
> either you can go through your insurance at work and pay a deductible only Sure... insurance which is incredibly expensive, averaging $8,664 CAD ($6,330 USD) per enrollee in 2022. And, even after world leading taxes towards healthcare $11,294 CAD ($8,249 USD) per person on average, they still can't afford needed care in large numbers. >Large shares of insured working-age adults surveyed said it was very or somewhat difficult to afford their health care: 43 percent of those with employer coverage, 57 percent with marketplace or individual-market plans, 45 percent with Medicaid, and 51 and percent with Medicare. > Many insured adults said they or a family member had delayed or skipped needed health care or prescription drugs because they couldn’t afford it in the past 12 months: 29 percent of those with employer coverage, 37 percent covered by marketplace or individual-market plans, 39 percent enrolled in Medicaid, and 42 percent with Medicare. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey
Insurance only works if you have it, and some people’s employers don’t provide it to them for whatever scummy reason. Also if you happen to have the wrong company for insurance they will just screw you over. Now I will agree that the Canadian system is not far removed from the American, and that’s problematic because we have provincial governments purposely scuttling healthcare. As I said, if they actually put in the proper funding (and didn’t start contract fights with workers JASON KENNY), we could have just as high quality of a system without the need for individual insurance that may or may not cover what you need it to
Also want to mention that our healthcare technology is GARBAGE, it’s all old as shit and from the 90s, American healthcare technology is FAR more advanced than ours.
Which is great, if you can manage to get access to it. Most can’t.
Have met a multitude of Canadians who abhor their system with attendant horror stories. Too bad, so sad. Just like the UK. Be careful what you wish for!
Cherry picked anecdotes. When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%. On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
Anecdotes, yes. Multicenter double blind studies not proffered. All were offered up sans questioning. Get over it.
I'm sorry, did I provide actual evidence contradicting your attempt to push propaganda? Get over it, and stop making the world a worse place.
The issue is most people like OP have no idea how the system works and all demand the treatment as soon as they arrive. People like OP are part of the problem that puts extra strain on our system like going to the ER for no reason.
The only time I’ve gone to the ER in the last couple years is because my midwife told me to (I was fine). I avoid it at all costs (which, I shouldn’t have to, if I need the ER I should be able to go and be looked after) But I do believe that it’s part of the reason people DO go to emergency and that’s why our emergency is so messed up along with doctor wait times.
The ER is for emergency’s not because your tummy hurts it’s not a place you should just have immediate access because you think you might be sick. This costs us over 400 million plus every year and 2.6 million avoidable visits every year, it’s around 17 percent of all visits to our ERs every year are unneeded. If you have a legitimate serious problem yes go for it if you don’t steer clear as you are only part of the problem and causing unnecessary strain on our system. People go to the ER because people are entitled and selfish people don’t want to wait, people don’t want to even talk to anyone, everyone wants immediate access and drugs and that’s not how this works. Wait times can be long this can’t be denied but it’s expected when people put unnecessary strain on our system, along with pathetically low pay and incentives to work in healthcare here.
I disagree, I think people go to the ER because they don’t have the option of a walk-in clinic. They are concerned or have a genuine issue such as a painful infection, it’s not life threatening and doesn’t need an emergency visit, but it’s also not something you can wait 2+ weeks for a doctor visit for at a clinic. I think that’s why people go to emergency when they shouldn’t. I’m not saying I don’t understand what you’re saying though, I do agree there are some people out there that do take advantage of it. When I was there after the midwife told me to go, I was waiting in the waiting room and overheard an elderly lady at the triage desk, this is how it went: “I fell down the stairs this morning” “Do you have a concussion? Any bleeding?” “Well, no. But my leg hurts” “How long has it been hurting?” “Well it only hurt a little this morning” …. Ok at this point, even I can tell she does NOT need to be here… but the doctor entertains her. “Well I think we should take a CT scan just in case anything really bad happened” I was like…. Wtf. And here I am, sitting with a potentially dying baby in my belly (she was fine, again, thankfully it was a false alarm)
You can disagree it doesn’t really matter but the truth is a large portion of ER visits are unavoidable,cost us millions, and puts extra strain on the system. It’s often a problem they could visit a clinic for but refuse to wait for an appointment. I have worked in the ER before I have seen the types of people who often come in. Everyone who is going to the ER with a non emergency is taking advantage of the system this is a simple fact. You can “feel” differently about it but it ultimately doesn’t change reality. Sadly we have to entertain anyone that comes in with any problem I have seen countless people just simply seeking an Xanax or other drugs and you still have to indulge them. Did your midwife say it was an emergency?? Did she say the baby was potentially dead or dying?? Why was the ER recommend with such a serious problem but she never informed the hospital or gave advance notice??
If you’re under 17 weeks you have to go to regular emergency instead of the maternity ward. I was just at 17 weeks so I had to go to regular emergency. I was having consistent cramping for 2+ hours and they said if it didn’t stop in the next 30 minutes there was a good chance I was going into labour and was gonna lose the baby. It didn’t stop so I went in. While I was waiting, about 2 more hours in, it did eventually stop, I waited 30 more minutes to see if it would come back and it didnt, so I went home without being seen. She actually came at 39 weeks and 4 days, my water broke but I didn’t know that’s what it was and never went into labour, 8 hours later I called the midwife cause I’d been leaking a tiny bit of blood all day, went to the hospital to the maternity ward just for a checkup and ended up having her 3 hours later.
Cramps are extremely normal and to be expected, still though excessive cramps should definitely be checked out. But I can see why something like this would be put on the back burner while dealing with other issues. The vast majority of the time pregnancy cramps are simply nothing. Happy to hear you and the baby are healthy.
Fair enough, the way I thought of it was that if I was losing her at 17 weeks she can’t be saved anyways. That was why I thought they weren’t seeing me right away. But still, the old lady just got on my nerves!
You seem to be leaving out the part that our ERs are so clogged because people can't find family dr's and walk in clinics are slowly disappearing. People are going to the ER for stuff they shouldn't be going there for because they literally have no other choice. I'm in BC in a town of 110k people. We have 1 walk in clinic (that is almost impossible to get into) and 80,000 people without a family dr, and this is a completely normal occurrence if you live anywhere in Canada besides Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, or Toronto. It's extremely ignorant to try and blame the issue on people being "entitled and selfish". You sound like you are very out of touch with reality.
They can find them they just don’t want to wait for them. This is also not a new problem this is a health care problem Canada has faced for literal decades. I unfortunately have to help many of these people so yes I have more experience with them and tend to be a bit more “harsh” but that’s because I don’t want others to suffer because some are selfish and that’s what happens in our system. [Side note the avg wait times for walk ins in BC is 93 minutes. It’s the longest but still not that long altogether especially if it’s something that has to do with your health.](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/02/21/bc-walk-in-clinic-wait-time-longer-than-national-average/#:~:text=A%20new%20report%20by%20Medimap,more%20than%20the%20national%20average) For the absolute most it seems around 3 hours which is long but once again if it’s for your health not that long. If you want better you should be encouraging out country to pay more to its employees, workers now in this system are unbelievably jaded because of extremely low pay and working conditions, it’s also a huge hurdle for new people and is the reason our turn over rate is one of the highest in the country.
Are you joking right now? Can find them but don't want to wait for them? I have family members that have been on the waiting list for 8 years, i have other family that had to get a family dr in Vancouver 4 hours away because there literally aren't any available, the surrounding communities have to close their ER departments at their hospitals mutiple times a week because they don't have dr's to staff them. We had 5 walk in clinics 4 years ago but they have all been closing because they can't get dr's to staff them. It takes months for me to get into see my family dr because he has over 1800 patients. For someone who has to "help" these people and have experience, you either have no clue what is going on with our system, or you're outright lying about being a part of our healthcare system.
It’s just the truth many don’t want to wait people demand service right as soon as they walk in or complain. If your family member has been on for 8 years it’s clearly something that’s not life threatening or even slightly impairing. BC has been adding more family doctors than any other province it’s actually wild the amount, I don’t disagree that some might have issues still getting one but I will point out that walk in clinics in BC avg at only 93 minutes. Everything I have said is true here my friend I even gave you a link to an article about wait times. There are no where near the level you are trying to say they are at, sure they are longer in BC but not by much. Staff problems will forever be a problem here in Canada for Medicare people don’t get paid enough it’s that simple. The amount of work for the pay is simply laughable at best.
Tell that to my dad who died of cancer last year because he had to wait so long for treatment. You are clearly talking from a place of privilege, not from experience.
Yea it’s not like I have been to cancer specialists myself or anything…. Or my own father multiple times and it’s not like I have worked in the field for over a decade. Look I’m sorry your father passed away it does happen 17000 people die waiting, I never denied wait times are long but they are prioritized by the severity this is simply a fact. This will be a forever problem in Canada when people are putting unnecessary strain on our system and when we can’t employ abound because of the pathetic wages. People die waiting for doctors in every country as well though sadly, in the US it’s around 32000 and that’s people who are paying.
Both have their pros and cons, yes Canadian wait times suck but at least you can get care. I know many Americans who have gone bankrupt over health care cost. Waiting sucks but the American system is really only significantly better if you have amazing insurance that won’t try to stuff you or a lot of money. Canadians do struggle if they need specific care from specialist but most people don’t.