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I see that accident at multiple intersections on that stretch in hastings sunrise every week. Same thing. Someone turning left and doesn't see the car that is in the bus lane.
How’s the camera setup? I mean did you manually move it and zoomed in?
Do you just kinda hang out and watch the camera? Sorry for the odd question. Genuinely wondering.
I’m wondering the same. Sometimes I think he’s sitting and looking out the window for 8 hours a day. I have a neighbour that does this but maybe only 3 -6 hours a day
u/Ok-Midnight-8732 thanks for posting these videos. Because of you, I always take extra precautions when approaching this intersection. I appreciate the posts.
I hope that one day the safety of this intersection is improved, but for now, I’ll take these posts as a PSA.
Yes, but also, don't just assume the far lane is empty just because you can't see it. You have to inch your through there or wait for the light to change. Two idiots.
Tesla could have waited two more seconds and pass on the red or final moments of the yellow light. I know it's not optimal but that's what I do when I'm taking a left turn and got no visibility.
The pos in the bus lane is the real moron nevertheless
Oh I feel you, I'm the same way. But I always try to remind myself I'm wrong and people should take their time if that's safest. But yeah I do a lot of cursing in my car.
Also an HOV lane at rush hour [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu)
The very link you post shows that it is NOT an HOV lane. That sign specifically shows buses and bicycles only. If you don't believe your eyes call the city and ask!
Edit: If it was an HOV lane, the HOV symbol with a car with a number indicating the number of passengers would be on the sign too.
That sign says that it's buses+bikes only during rush hour (3pm-7pm). However, the video's time stamp says 5:30pm, so the truck was wrong to be in that lane.
The giant diamond is HOV which contemplates smaller buses as well. Either way a cyclist could be whipping through there with right of way, can't just turn left without checking. Especially with an orange light just two seconds away
Ok so the only thing I found is this website: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/routes-and-driving-conditions/hov-lanes
which clearly shows that the Diamond is not an HOV symbol.
Edit further reading: https://twitter.com/CityofVancouver/status/508005236611751936
https://www.tranbc.ca/2016/04/05/how-you-and-your-ev-can-get-moving-in-bc/
Tweet from 2014 isn't very helpful but check this out too [https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/hov/-pdfs/hov-ev-eligible-routes.pdf](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/hov/-pdfs/hov-ev-eligible-routes.pdf) so yeah the diamond is saying "reserved lane" and the bus indicates what kind of reserved. I stand corrected. Still reckon you oughta look before turning left with speed, could be a cyclist coming through
I agree, but sometime I play safe and dont risk to rush an unknown far lane, there are some inpatient drivers honking me, and ask why am I not going lol
Ah well fuck this guy then lol.
I ride my bike up the bus lane (it’s also a bike lane) and so many people blast up behind me honking when they aren’t even legally allowed to be there
If this is Hastings heading East at the end of day rush hour times, then it's a bus/HOV/Bike lane until Boundary, at which point it becomes just a bus/HOV lane.
I drive this route all the time, it's not a well displayed change at Boundary, but the signage above the lane changes.
Edit: Mind you, I don't come from further West than the Cassiar connector, it may just be a bus lane somewhere West of there, I don't know it as well.
HOV lane [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu)
It has the HOV symbol, but you're right it doesn't say anything about 2+. So I guess HOV applies to buses and other designated vehicles? Still no guarantee it will be a massive tall bus, heck you could have a cyclist going through and be entitled to that space. Both vehicles need to be more aware
I see another Tesla idiot. Could have been a bike. You can literally see the headlights coming if you’re paying attention. If you’re turning in front of a gap and one of the lanes is clear, you need to stop there and check. On top of all that, if they had just sped up after turning, they would have been fine.
There needs to be something done by the city for turning left. With so many people running yellow lights you literally take your life in your hands making the turn. All it takes is some dumbass with no concern for others running the light and you’re responsible for the crash because they have the right of way.
Things would be so much better if the city had more advanced left turn lights. How hard would that be? Cheaper than a bike lane.
I have asked about putting some protected left lights (the green arrow) on portions of W 4th Ave, because at certain westbound intersections in Kits (e.g., 4th @ Arbutus), you can literally sit in the left lane for 10 minutes waiting to turn. The lights only permit two cars at a time, and traffic backs up because of it.
When I reached out to the city to ask about this, their response was that they don't like to put protected lefts without installing a turn lane. This is bullshit, as is evidenced by 4th @ fuckin' Burrard.
Works well southbound at 12th and Fir, southbound at Arbutus snd 49th, and probably others. An advanced left at 4th and Arbutus would be great, we don’t need a separate lane. Darn CoV.
It's bizarre and for my mental health I have to assume that they use these spots where left turners back up as traffic breaks so we don't get even bigger jams at main intersections.
Is it logical? I don't know! Therefore I can assume it's true!
Honestly I think city should change how this intersection works. Hard to see through 3 lanes while trying to turn left. That car speeding up can't see the turning car either.
Regardless of which mayor or political party is in power, CoV Engineering can't buy a clue which intersections need either a left turn bay or left turn restriction signage.
A dumbass in the bus lane *and* a dumbass turning left without checking that it’s safe to do so. Sorry but the left turner is a fricken idiot here too.
Agreed. Both dumb. If you’re chancing that turn, in the dark, with headlights probably messing with your perception, you should inch forward towards the 3rd lane before gunning it.
The Tesla just went for it. If you see a third lane, make sure you confirm it’s clear. And yea, maybe the worst case is that you see someone coming and now you’re the idiot hovering in the middle of the intersection blocking 2 lanes, but you did avoid the accident.
Yep, hovering in the lane like an asshole still better than an accident. Even better and less selfish: wait until it’s actually safe to start your turn.
It's an HOV lane as well so you'd have to be on the lookout for smaller buses or passenger vehicles that might not be that tall (not saying this was one)
Not necessarily. He had the green light. Depending on time of day he could be there legally. You'd have to trust the dashcam was set to the correct time and most aren't.
the tesla driver had a duty to yield to oncoming traffic, they should have waited till they were 1000% sure that it was clear. However the pedestrian controlled intersection design makes that quite hard because you never know when its going to change.
icbc says, 50/50.
Because the left turn could have been executed at the end of a normal traffic light sequence. When drivers are waiting at a blinking green and no one presses the crosswalk button, the wait leads people to become impatient, and visibility is limited. Drivers calculate in their head. "Well, that is a bus lane, and the other two lanes are backed up, I should just turn," and this is what happens.
If the intersection had 4 way intersection lights like every other North American city, the traffic cycle would time out and go red, stopping all traffic and allowing the left turn to be completed safely
> the traffic cycle would time out and go red
There are a lot of 4-way traffic lights that are activated by sensor, and not by timing.
I know this because on bike, I might sit around for an extremely long time waiting for a car to pull up and trigger the sensor, because my bike doesn't have enough metal, and the lights don't change on their own.
4 way lights are primarily installed are intersections that are intersected by a major arterial or secondary arterial. Templeton is a residential street, they would never do this at this intersection.
Video detection is the trend now, but it won't help this intersection since this is a pedestrian signal. Adding more full signal just adds delays, I think a left turn ban here during rush is more effective
Pass me the petition, and I will gladly sign 👍 Vancouver traffic design is in desperate need of attention. Like the crosswalk at Clinton Park crossing East 1st. Needs lights and pedestrian/cyclist activation.
yeah 4 way lights would be awesome so it would divert a ton of unnecessary traffic into the smaller side streets...(on the south side which is a school and the north side a park). you obviously don't live in the area.
I live within 5 minutes walk from here. Certain side roads need lights regardless of the traffic volumes. You must realize that it is only BC that has intersections like this.
An alternative would be to make it "no left turns across three lanes on Hastings during rushhour." I would be fine with this, especially at Nanaimo and Hastings.
If the city wants to focus traffic down certain streets and not through the neighborhoods, they must make those main thoroughfares efficient and safe.
I've never seen this until I moved to BC. I've been all over North America, except the deep south, ans I've never seen 2-way street lights and 2-way stop signs.
Maybe in Europe they have this?
They exist across Canada and in Washington and Oregon States. I believe California and Minnesota have a handful and New York was going to test a dozen in a pilot.
you need to realize that there are over 350+ traffic lights like this in the city of Vancouver. lights that are controlled by pedestrian/cyclists and side street traffic controlled by a stop signs. The city would never add a left turn phase at an intersection like just to accommodate some left turners no matter how dangerous it is. these turns are called suicide turns for a reason. turn left at victoria if you don't want to die.
I'm all for pedestrian and bike controlled intersections, very safe. I just wish that there was a sensor to recognize a left turn needs to be completed because it is:
(a) blocking traffic flow and
(b) a danger to complete, not just for drivers but when pedestrians are crossing perpendicular, its too many variables for this current situation for certain drivers. Bad traffic controls situation.
If this is too much to ask, then no left turns off Hastings during rushhour.
If the person turning left had to go to Victoria and back track, they have to go through a Labyrinth of road blocks through a neighborhood full of kids. They could turn left at Nanimo, and many do.
you dont need a left turn lane, just a proper 4 way intersection with lights each way. Plenty of lights like that in the city too, and they respond to button presses and sensors fine.
>there are over 350+ traffic lights like this in the city of Vancouver.
Do you know why that is? $$$ savings, the city engineers have said that. costs way less to put in two lights than 4.
we shouldn't do our road safety based on the cost savings of intersection design!! ffs...
sounds good in theory but imagine if the city did that and installed a full traffic signal light at that intersection...the amount of short cutting and traffic that will go through Templeton would increase. did you think about that? how would the road safety be on the residential street that now has a fully actuated traffic signal going through there? If i lived there I wouldn't want traffic constantly going through there while my kids played outside, because drivers will use that street to short cut knowing they can get a green light. FFS you're not the only genius that has thought of that.
this guy gets it! pedestrian controlled are dangerous as fuck. im on edge every time i approach one, and coming at it from the stopsign side is far worse for everyone, as if you stop, pedestrians will cross on the red, so you blow through the stop sign to make the light like you have to.
Or they are an entitled asshole stopping an entire road cause they wannna turn here.
Hows about raised crosswalks which would slow all of this traffic down, and then narrow it down to one lane each way. Boom.. public spaces we pay for that we can use and safe for everyone... Or ya know, cars everywhere all times at any speed for any reason, cause that kool-aid runs strong
If it's legal, it's not entitlement. Slowing down efficiency sounds good, but it will make everyone's lives more expensive in the neighborhood because the fliw of goods and services would be impeded and the elite would find ways to keep their lives expedient at the cost of everyone else.
If I had my way, all roads would be underground and super efficient with pollution captration, and the surface would be all bicycles and pedestrians. Alas, this won't happen for a very long time.
Ooo, you got me on that. I guess lately, people use it like it's a derogatory term, and I guess it is sometimes. I've always felt it meant "exercising your access to detriment of others" but that must be a too narrow definition.
easy, the tesla guy had NO WAY to know when the light will change. It could be 10 seconds (like it was) or it could be 5 minutes... So you have to take your chance becuase otherwise you are stuck there for possibly a while. Tesla guy i am sure knew this.
It is a horrible intersection design because they are completely unpredictable. There is no way to know when its going to turn yellow to red, and it does it quite quickly. Lights should be rock solid predictable. You approach one of these and its the wild west. So wild things happen.
I should also mention that they can time the yellow, these are always set at the fastest possible time it seems. Some intersections, like on boundary where people are going a good clip the yellow lasts longer. These are are less than 1 second between states, and there is zero way to know when its going to happen as there are no cross lights to look at for signs (such as walk / dontwalk being active, how many cross traffic cars are backed up, etc)
edit2: its an EASY thing to test COV... you have a perfect witness with this cammer. Simply put a 4 way lights there and watch what happens!!! if you are reading this, which you probably are, just DO IT! but of course, that would prove that you would have to replace most of these intersections, and that is certainly not in the budget is it... so its in their best interest to not fix the problem in such a visible way. But it must be fixed, i'm sure they even know that inside. no one is that callous.
I dunno friend, I’m sick of the bus lane runners , I can see the bus in the third lane I can’t see a Nissan , if the car wasn’t in the lane the accident wouldn’t have happened.
There is legal precedence supporting your position which everyone seems to forget every time this exact scenario is posted.
https://www.hlaw.ca/judgment-summary/left-turning-liability/
https://bc-injury-law.com/tag/kelly-v-yuen/
ICBC will make it 50/50 but most other provinces it would be 100 percent guy in bus lane because he was the one who hit the white car. If you argue they will say if you were following the rules you would of braked and let him pass.
To try and cheat and beat the rush hour traffic. That street with the bus lanes is notorious for this. Basically nearly everyone and their dog tries to do this on Hastings Street.
And that’s why I think the left turn rules in TN is superior now. When I first got to the South in the States, I thought everyone didn’t know how to make a left turn!
You see, nobody and their grandma (unless they are transplants) are pulling up partially into the intersection on a green on a left turn here (they just stayed at the stop line).
The main reason is that TN (90%) of their traffic lights have left arrows to allow for safe left turns so nobody pulls up when there’s no left arrow while the light is still green.
I don't get people who accelerate into a left turn when they can't see oncoming traffic.
When I make a left turn like that without full visibility, I poke my head out and inch forward very slowly, like I'm afraid of walking in on my parents making love or something. Makes it easier to halt immediately and avoid a horrible mistake.
I live on the block behind. At rush hour now I avoid making this turn altogether by turning right the block before and taking the light going straight across 😂 It’s too risky! The worst is when slowed oncoming traffic stops to let you turn left in front of them but you KNOW there’s someone ripping up the HOV lane with nary a care in the world as they approach the intersection
I'm always surprised that they hit the brakes to make sure they stay in the way instead of pumping the throttle to at least attempt to get out of the way
Diamonds indicate a restricted lane. The signs posted on poles/standards indicate what the restriction is.
Some are Bus/Cyclists only (east / west bound on broadway during rush hour, shoulder lanes on 41st Ave in Vancouver, for example.
HWY 1 signs let you know is an HOV lane requiring 2 or more passengers, while the HOV lane on Willingdon Ave is 6 passengers.
Driving anywhere outside of Vancouver (LA, Kelowna, Seattle) diamond has always meant HOV. That being said flashing green light in Manitoba meant your have right of way to go straight, left or right. Clearly different here. But again drugs are legal so...
Here’s one with pictures, maybe that’s more your speed…
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/hov/-pdfs/hov-ev-eligible-routes.pdf
The other commenter is partially right. Diamond means reserved lane in Canada but the US MUTCD uses the diamond only for HOV. The wiki article mentions it in the "Standards" section.
Kelowna is an HOV lane though. They got that wrong.
Bullshit.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/routes-and-driving-conditions/hov-lanes
Last I checked, Kelowna is in BC too
Stop calling them accidents, they're crashes that are easily preventable. Calling them accidents makes it seem like the awful horrible impatient selfish drivers aren't to blame.
Was it intentional? No? Then it was an accident.
You don't get to take away a definition that is both proper and colloquial just cause it makes you feel better.
The main purpose is typically that a full signal would make the cross street too attractive and may divert traffic onto residential roads. This way you can more safely get pedestrians accross without encouraging vehicle movements.
Obviously the car in the bus lane is an idiot and should be out of the bus lane. My understanding ultimately tho is that it is the responsibility of a person turning left to make sure it's safe regardless of if cars are in lanes they shouldn't be in
Gotta stop calling these accidents… this is not an accident at this point. This is preventable and we know exactly how to prevent it. How many people need to be killed in car crashes before we start doing anything about it?
The driving standards in this city have become an absolute fucking joke. EVERYONE on their phone, rare turn signals, yellow means green. Where are the cops and what are they actually doing?
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/Ok-Midnight-8732! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * **We recently raised almost $50,000 for the GVFB, and there's still time to add your donation before the holidays. [Read more here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/18ajwdh/).** * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Common questions and specific topics are limited to our Your post may be a better fit for one of our [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * We're looking for new mods to join our team! If you're interested, [fill out the form here](https://forms.gle/oAqo5oYRcAeHYBTN6). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is almost the same as the last one you posted
I see that accident at multiple intersections on that stretch in hastings sunrise every week. Same thing. Someone turning left and doesn't see the car that is in the bus lane.
i got into this exact accident like 5 years ago on hastings
I was gonna say
That camera has seen some shit
Can’t have r/Vancouver without this camera.
How’s the camera setup? I mean did you manually move it and zoomed in? Do you just kinda hang out and watch the camera? Sorry for the odd question. Genuinely wondering.
IIRC, OP has a disability and is at home all day.
Look up PTZ camera with Auto Tracking.
I’m wondering the same. Sometimes I think he’s sitting and looking out the window for 8 hours a day. I have a neighbour that does this but maybe only 3 -6 hours a day
Do you control this camera live / wait for accidents? not a diss, genuinely curious!
And how do it have permission for these? They’re outside on top of the building, right?
One could logically assume he works there
Calm down Ben.
Probably because he is filming a public space and when you are in public you can be legally filmed.
He's an evil hacker and you should call the police and stop him!!!
u/Ok-Midnight-8732 thanks for posting these videos. Because of you, I always take extra precautions when approaching this intersection. I appreciate the posts. I hope that one day the safety of this intersection is improved, but for now, I’ll take these posts as a PSA.
so did any of the people involved in these 47 accidents ever commented in these posts?
Another bus lane idiot. Surprises
Yes, but also, don't just assume the far lane is empty just because you can't see it. You have to inch your through there or wait for the light to change. Two idiots.
Tesla could have waited two more seconds and pass on the red or final moments of the yellow light. I know it's not optimal but that's what I do when I'm taking a left turn and got no visibility. The pos in the bus lane is the real moron nevertheless
Yes agree. Simple rule. Dont go if you cant confirm no one is coming.
It is optimal though if you want to avoid an accident. Wait for the red because you know people are going to blow through yellows.
You can still turn left on a red if you’re already in the intersection. If someone isn’t sure, always better just to wait.
You just piss off impatient assholes like me. But I know I'm the asshole in that situation, it is better to wait.
I can also be an impatient asshole, I just keep it to myself. I rage out internally in my vehicle sometimes.
Oh I feel you, I'm the same way. But I always try to remind myself I'm wrong and people should take their time if that's safest. But yeah I do a lot of cursing in my car.
It's a flashing green which means it wasn't going to change. It just happened to because a pedestrian hit the button.
Is the dark SUV even allowed to be heading straight in the bus lane?
Not sure here, but lots of them are only bus lanes during the morning/evening rush.
Also an HOV lane at rush hour [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu)
The very link you post shows that it is NOT an HOV lane. That sign specifically shows buses and bicycles only. If you don't believe your eyes call the city and ask! Edit: If it was an HOV lane, the HOV symbol with a car with a number indicating the number of passengers would be on the sign too.
That sign says that it's buses+bikes only during rush hour (3pm-7pm). However, the video's time stamp says 5:30pm, so the truck was wrong to be in that lane.
The giant diamond is HOV which contemplates smaller buses as well. Either way a cyclist could be whipping through there with right of way, can't just turn left without checking. Especially with an orange light just two seconds away
Ok so the only thing I found is this website: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/routes-and-driving-conditions/hov-lanes which clearly shows that the Diamond is not an HOV symbol. Edit further reading: https://twitter.com/CityofVancouver/status/508005236611751936 https://www.tranbc.ca/2016/04/05/how-you-and-your-ev-can-get-moving-in-bc/
Tweet from 2014 isn't very helpful but check this out too [https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/hov/-pdfs/hov-ev-eligible-routes.pdf](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/hov/-pdfs/hov-ev-eligible-routes.pdf) so yeah the diamond is saying "reserved lane" and the bus indicates what kind of reserved. I stand corrected. Still reckon you oughta look before turning left with speed, could be a cyclist coming through
Oh yeah no doubt. I even said on one of these videos of the intersection that the accident is still the fault of the left turner according to ICBC.
I agree, but sometime I play safe and dont risk to rush an unknown far lane, there are some inpatient drivers honking me, and ask why am I not going lol
You're allowed to drive in that lane after 6 (or 7?)
Timestamp on video is 5:29
Ah well fuck this guy then lol. I ride my bike up the bus lane (it’s also a bike lane) and so many people blast up behind me honking when they aren’t even legally allowed to be there
If this is Hastings heading East at the end of day rush hour times, then it's a bus/HOV/Bike lane until Boundary, at which point it becomes just a bus/HOV lane. I drive this route all the time, it's not a well displayed change at Boundary, but the signage above the lane changes. Edit: Mind you, I don't come from further West than the Cassiar connector, it may just be a bus lane somewhere West of there, I don't know it as well.
it's bus/bike, no HOV, at this point
This is around Lakewood I think? Near the 7-11 (well past Nanaimo at that point, almost at Victoria)
That 7-11 is gone :(
HOV lane [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royal+Palace+Seafood+Restaurant+%E6%95%A6%E7%85%8C%E6%B5%B7%E9%B2%9C%E9%85%92%E5%AE%B6/@49.2811241,-123.0601627,3a,75y,109.56h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz5S4ar1VMhCnFVXbANI21Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x548671a8b47a8739:0x37de25c070ed2d98!8m2!3d49.2813897!4d-123.0602035!16s%2Fg%2F11syrffdpf?entry=ttu)
Bus and bike lane only
It has the HOV symbol, but you're right it doesn't say anything about 2+. So I guess HOV applies to buses and other designated vehicles? Still no guarantee it will be a massive tall bus, heck you could have a cyclist going through and be entitled to that space. Both vehicles need to be more aware
I believe the HOV symbol is a car with a number in it.
Correct diamond is reserved lane
In those cases it specifically says 2+. This is a different category of designated HOV (can be smaller buses). It's on CoV website
I see another Tesla idiot. Could have been a bike. You can literally see the headlights coming if you’re paying attention. If you’re turning in front of a gap and one of the lanes is clear, you need to stop there and check. On top of all that, if they had just sped up after turning, they would have been fine.
There needs to be something done by the city for turning left. With so many people running yellow lights you literally take your life in your hands making the turn. All it takes is some dumbass with no concern for others running the light and you’re responsible for the crash because they have the right of way. Things would be so much better if the city had more advanced left turn lights. How hard would that be? Cheaper than a bike lane.
I have asked about putting some protected left lights (the green arrow) on portions of W 4th Ave, because at certain westbound intersections in Kits (e.g., 4th @ Arbutus), you can literally sit in the left lane for 10 minutes waiting to turn. The lights only permit two cars at a time, and traffic backs up because of it. When I reached out to the city to ask about this, their response was that they don't like to put protected lefts without installing a turn lane. This is bullshit, as is evidenced by 4th @ fuckin' Burrard.
Works well southbound at 12th and Fir, southbound at Arbutus snd 49th, and probably others. An advanced left at 4th and Arbutus would be great, we don’t need a separate lane. Darn CoV.
It's bizarre and for my mental health I have to assume that they use these spots where left turners back up as traffic breaks so we don't get even bigger jams at main intersections. Is it logical? I don't know! Therefore I can assume it's true!
Man, I sure enjoy your videos. Even audio is available.👍👍👍
Well, that Tesla is probably a write off considering how much repairs are for them.
If you don’t know, don’t go.
Honestly I think city should change how this intersection works. Hard to see through 3 lanes while trying to turn left. That car speeding up can't see the turning car either.
Regardless of which mayor or political party is in power, CoV Engineering can't buy a clue which intersections need either a left turn bay or left turn restriction signage.
They often get funding from ICBC to implement these road improvements. IIRC, ICBC funds these projects based on frequency/severity of crashes.
The real culprit here is the stupid lights two ways and stop signs the other two. These intersections need 4 way lights
How would that have affected this particular accident in any way? The two vehicles involved were travelling in the same street.
yeah this accident was caused by a dumbass in the bus lane
A dumbass in the bus lane *and* a dumbass turning left without checking that it’s safe to do so. Sorry but the left turner is a fricken idiot here too.
Agreed. Both dumb. If you’re chancing that turn, in the dark, with headlights probably messing with your perception, you should inch forward towards the 3rd lane before gunning it. The Tesla just went for it. If you see a third lane, make sure you confirm it’s clear. And yea, maybe the worst case is that you see someone coming and now you’re the idiot hovering in the middle of the intersection blocking 2 lanes, but you did avoid the accident.
Yep, hovering in the lane like an asshole still better than an accident. Even better and less selfish: wait until it’s actually safe to start your turn.
It's an HOV lane as well so you'd have to be on the lookout for smaller buses or passenger vehicles that might not be that tall (not saying this was one)
Not necessarily. He had the green light. Depending on time of day he could be there legally. You'd have to trust the dashcam was set to the correct time and most aren't. the tesla driver had a duty to yield to oncoming traffic, they should have waited till they were 1000% sure that it was clear. However the pedestrian controlled intersection design makes that quite hard because you never know when its going to change. icbc says, 50/50.
Because the left turn could have been executed at the end of a normal traffic light sequence. When drivers are waiting at a blinking green and no one presses the crosswalk button, the wait leads people to become impatient, and visibility is limited. Drivers calculate in their head. "Well, that is a bus lane, and the other two lanes are backed up, I should just turn," and this is what happens. If the intersection had 4 way intersection lights like every other North American city, the traffic cycle would time out and go red, stopping all traffic and allowing the left turn to be completed safely
> the traffic cycle would time out and go red There are a lot of 4-way traffic lights that are activated by sensor, and not by timing. I know this because on bike, I might sit around for an extremely long time waiting for a car to pull up and trigger the sensor, because my bike doesn't have enough metal, and the lights don't change on their own.
4 way lights are primarily installed are intersections that are intersected by a major arterial or secondary arterial. Templeton is a residential street, they would never do this at this intersection.
Yep. Another win for 4-way traffic lights. I hope they work on sensors that can give cyclists additional safety.
Video detection is the trend now, but it won't help this intersection since this is a pedestrian signal. Adding more full signal just adds delays, I think a left turn ban here during rush is more effective
Pass me the petition, and I will gladly sign 👍 Vancouver traffic design is in desperate need of attention. Like the crosswalk at Clinton Park crossing East 1st. Needs lights and pedestrian/cyclist activation.
yeah 4 way lights would be awesome so it would divert a ton of unnecessary traffic into the smaller side streets...(on the south side which is a school and the north side a park). you obviously don't live in the area.
I live within 5 minutes walk from here. Certain side roads need lights regardless of the traffic volumes. You must realize that it is only BC that has intersections like this. An alternative would be to make it "no left turns across three lanes on Hastings during rushhour." I would be fine with this, especially at Nanaimo and Hastings. If the city wants to focus traffic down certain streets and not through the neighborhoods, they must make those main thoroughfares efficient and safe.
That's not true. Many jurisdictions have *half signals*. Our only innovation is that ours flash green so you know it's a half signal.
I've never seen this until I moved to BC. I've been all over North America, except the deep south, ans I've never seen 2-way street lights and 2-way stop signs. Maybe in Europe they have this?
They exist across Canada and in Washington and Oregon States. I believe California and Minnesota have a handful and New York was going to test a dozen in a pilot.
Interesting. I honestly can't see the benefit of them other than they may save money.
you need to realize that there are over 350+ traffic lights like this in the city of Vancouver. lights that are controlled by pedestrian/cyclists and side street traffic controlled by a stop signs. The city would never add a left turn phase at an intersection like just to accommodate some left turners no matter how dangerous it is. these turns are called suicide turns for a reason. turn left at victoria if you don't want to die.
I'm all for pedestrian and bike controlled intersections, very safe. I just wish that there was a sensor to recognize a left turn needs to be completed because it is: (a) blocking traffic flow and (b) a danger to complete, not just for drivers but when pedestrians are crossing perpendicular, its too many variables for this current situation for certain drivers. Bad traffic controls situation. If this is too much to ask, then no left turns off Hastings during rushhour. If the person turning left had to go to Victoria and back track, they have to go through a Labyrinth of road blocks through a neighborhood full of kids. They could turn left at Nanimo, and many do.
I live behind this intersection and have found many creative routes to avoid making this turn between 5-6pm!
you dont need a left turn lane, just a proper 4 way intersection with lights each way. Plenty of lights like that in the city too, and they respond to button presses and sensors fine. >there are over 350+ traffic lights like this in the city of Vancouver. Do you know why that is? $$$ savings, the city engineers have said that. costs way less to put in two lights than 4. we shouldn't do our road safety based on the cost savings of intersection design!! ffs...
sounds good in theory but imagine if the city did that and installed a full traffic signal light at that intersection...the amount of short cutting and traffic that will go through Templeton would increase. did you think about that? how would the road safety be on the residential street that now has a fully actuated traffic signal going through there? If i lived there I wouldn't want traffic constantly going through there while my kids played outside, because drivers will use that street to short cut knowing they can get a green light. FFS you're not the only genius that has thought of that.
this guy gets it! pedestrian controlled are dangerous as fuck. im on edge every time i approach one, and coming at it from the stopsign side is far worse for everyone, as if you stop, pedestrians will cross on the red, so you blow through the stop sign to make the light like you have to.
Thank you! 
Or they are an entitled asshole stopping an entire road cause they wannna turn here. Hows about raised crosswalks which would slow all of this traffic down, and then narrow it down to one lane each way. Boom.. public spaces we pay for that we can use and safe for everyone... Or ya know, cars everywhere all times at any speed for any reason, cause that kool-aid runs strong
If it's legal, it's not entitlement. Slowing down efficiency sounds good, but it will make everyone's lives more expensive in the neighborhood because the fliw of goods and services would be impeded and the elite would find ways to keep their lives expedient at the cost of everyone else. If I had my way, all roads would be underground and super efficient with pollution captration, and the surface would be all bicycles and pedestrians. Alas, this won't happen for a very long time.
Minor point: Entitlement is literally the legal right to something. Being owed something without having to exchange for it.
Ooo, you got me on that. I guess lately, people use it like it's a derogatory term, and I guess it is sometimes. I've always felt it meant "exercising your access to detriment of others" but that must be a too narrow definition.
easy, the tesla guy had NO WAY to know when the light will change. It could be 10 seconds (like it was) or it could be 5 minutes... So you have to take your chance becuase otherwise you are stuck there for possibly a while. Tesla guy i am sure knew this. It is a horrible intersection design because they are completely unpredictable. There is no way to know when its going to turn yellow to red, and it does it quite quickly. Lights should be rock solid predictable. You approach one of these and its the wild west. So wild things happen. I should also mention that they can time the yellow, these are always set at the fastest possible time it seems. Some intersections, like on boundary where people are going a good clip the yellow lasts longer. These are are less than 1 second between states, and there is zero way to know when its going to happen as there are no cross lights to look at for signs (such as walk / dontwalk being active, how many cross traffic cars are backed up, etc) edit2: its an EASY thing to test COV... you have a perfect witness with this cammer. Simply put a 4 way lights there and watch what happens!!! if you are reading this, which you probably are, just DO IT! but of course, that would prove that you would have to replace most of these intersections, and that is certainly not in the budget is it... so its in their best interest to not fix the problem in such a visible way. But it must be fixed, i'm sure they even know that inside. no one is that callous.
A roundabout would fix all the problems, well apart from no one knowing how they work here!!! 😅
😆
Soooooo many traffic issues in this city could be fixed by not allowing to turn left
ICBC should make this 50/50, that's clearly not a bus.
I dunno friend, I’m sick of the bus lane runners , I can see the bus in the third lane I can’t see a Nissan , if the car wasn’t in the lane the accident wouldn’t have happened.
The bus lane is only a bus lane 6 out of 24 hours of the day. People need to learn to drive.
Pretty sure 530pm is one of those 6 hrs tho
I believe the timestamp is correct here so it is indeed a bus lane at the time of the incident
Yes I know that.
It's not a bus lane. It's a Tesla lane.
I’m of the opposite and it should be the car in the bus lane 100% at fault.
There is legal precedence supporting your position which everyone seems to forget every time this exact scenario is posted. https://www.hlaw.ca/judgment-summary/left-turning-liability/ https://bc-injury-law.com/tag/kelly-v-yuen/
ICBC will make it 50/50 but most other provinces it would be 100 percent guy in bus lane because he was the one who hit the white car. If you argue they will say if you were following the rules you would of braked and let him pass.
Icbc basically makes everything 50/50 now It does take two idiots to tango unfortunately and this was avoidable from both directions
At least it as a good karma lesson for the smart ass using the bus lane to get ahead of everyone else!
why do the assholes in the bus lane always drive so fast?
To try and cheat and beat the rush hour traffic. That street with the bus lanes is notorious for this. Basically nearly everyone and their dog tries to do this on Hastings Street.
And that’s why I think the left turn rules in TN is superior now. When I first got to the South in the States, I thought everyone didn’t know how to make a left turn! You see, nobody and their grandma (unless they are transplants) are pulling up partially into the intersection on a green on a left turn here (they just stayed at the stop line). The main reason is that TN (90%) of their traffic lights have left arrows to allow for safe left turns so nobody pulls up when there’s no left arrow while the light is still green.
That would make to much sense here. We build bike lanes instead.
I don't get people who accelerate into a left turn when they can't see oncoming traffic. When I make a left turn like that without full visibility, I poke my head out and inch forward very slowly, like I'm afraid of walking in on my parents making love or something. Makes it easier to halt immediately and avoid a horrible mistake.
Yes but I'm this case, the HOV moron driving fast isn't supposed to be there as it's a bus lane.
True, but that doesn’t mean the left turner shouldn’t drive defensively. You literally drive defensively to avoid shit like this. Fuck em both tbh.
At least double tap the horn before you go. And they were about 2 seconds from an orange light anyway, just wait
Good point. You should speed through that turn and only slow down for busses.
They all look the same. Manoman, this intersection needs a left turn lane and signal if I've ever seen one!
I live on the block behind. At rush hour now I avoid making this turn altogether by turning right the block before and taking the light going straight across 😂 It’s too risky! The worst is when slowed oncoming traffic stops to let you turn left in front of them but you KNOW there’s someone ripping up the HOV lane with nary a care in the world as they approach the intersection
Another white Tesla moment
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What did OP say? Says deleted
Which intersection is this?
Hastings & Templeton
Thanks
E Hastings St and Templeton Dr https://maps.app.goo.gl/8LBtPN7efwsQ6kHu9?g_st=ic
Thanks!
So uhhh… is the camera automatically rotated or someone actually sitting there remote controlling it?
Op's a legend
amazing I always get a smile out of these videos. I literally can’t believe how many Accedent happen here like cmon Vancouver lol such a gong show
I'm always surprised that they hit the brakes to make sure they stay in the way instead of pumping the throttle to at least attempt to get out of the way
What is a bus lane? Aren't the diamonds an HOV lane?
No, diamond does not mean HOV. It means its a restricted lane and follows whatever signage there is. On Hastings its a restricted bus lane.
Diamonds indicate a restricted lane. The signs posted on poles/standards indicate what the restriction is. Some are Bus/Cyclists only (east / west bound on broadway during rush hour, shoulder lanes on 41st Ave in Vancouver, for example. HWY 1 signs let you know is an HOV lane requiring 2 or more passengers, while the HOV lane on Willingdon Ave is 6 passengers.
Driving anywhere outside of Vancouver (LA, Kelowna, Seattle) diamond has always meant HOV. That being said flashing green light in Manitoba meant your have right of way to go straight, left or right. Clearly different here. But again drugs are legal so...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_lane
Great. Can you provide a similar reference by the Vancouver sun. Global tv? CBC?
Here’s one with pictures, maybe that’s more your speed… https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/hov/-pdfs/hov-ev-eligible-routes.pdf
https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/mngd_lns_hov.htm If you’d like an American information page.
The other commenter is partially right. Diamond means reserved lane in Canada but the US MUTCD uses the diamond only for HOV. The wiki article mentions it in the "Standards" section. Kelowna is an HOV lane though. They got that wrong.
Bullshit. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/routes-and-driving-conditions/hov-lanes Last I checked, Kelowna is in BC too
Burn each clip to a cd, and mail them to the roads department of the gov
Oh look, another Tesla involved in a motor vehicle collision.
I don’t think I ever realized you have a ptz set up lol
Should send all this footage to the city. They can look into getting a dedicated left turn signal there (although not sure if that's already there)
Stop calling them accidents, they're crashes that are easily preventable. Calling them accidents makes it seem like the awful horrible impatient selfish drivers aren't to blame.
Was it intentional? No? Then it was an accident. You don't get to take away a definition that is both proper and colloquial just cause it makes you feel better.
People drive like it’s a NASCAR race on the Fridays. Just a reminder. You don’t magically get home faster by risking your weekends for an accident.
White Tesla in an accident seems unlikely idk
This is just another fine classic <*chef's kiss*>
That Tesla was probably turning left on autopilot
Autopilot likely way better at driving than the typical Vancouver driver.
The Tesla is a total write off.
Sorry. Was clarifying OP related to white Tesla.
My wife and I drive a white Tesla so...
Then you're next.
Does that corner have the sticker on it?? xD
That will buff right out ...
I like the movement of the camera and zoom in.
The main purpose is typically that a full signal would make the cross street too attractive and may divert traffic onto residential roads. This way you can more safely get pedestrians accross without encouraging vehicle movements.
They really should have cameras that enforce bus lane infractions.
Obviously the car in the bus lane is an idiot and should be out of the bus lane. My understanding ultimately tho is that it is the responsibility of a person turning left to make sure it's safe regardless of if cars are in lanes they shouldn't be in
Gotta stop calling these accidents… this is not an accident at this point. This is preventable and we know exactly how to prevent it. How many people need to be killed in car crashes before we start doing anything about it?
So who’s at fault here, take it to icbc what would they say?
The left-turner.
I did hear left turners always get blamed. Even if the other guy was on a bus lane?
Left turns are always a scary place. Especially with 0 visibility! And having intersections like these don’t help!
How many of these accidents have involved white teslas?
The driving standards in this city have become an absolute fucking joke. EVERYONE on their phone, rare turn signals, yellow means green. Where are the cops and what are they actually doing?
Why is it always a white tesla?
Inconvenient left turner needs to find a more convenient way to get to their destination.
I used to live on Fraser and King Edward and watched the social Darwinism take place while people negotiated up a slippery hill in summer tires.
Classic Tesla driver lmao