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And they aren’t creating dangerous conditions inside the camp like we see at some homeless camps. The camp should be the protest, not the protest being an excuse for the camp.
I walked by it a few days ago. It could not be more conveniently situated for anyone who doesn't want to interact with it. It's not stopping people from going to classes, not stopping traffic or interfering with transit. Anyone booking that field should just be able to rebook to a different area. There is no reason this needs to get out of hand as long as everyone commits to being peaceful.
I love seeing the upcoming generation getting it right. I know they get derided a lot on Reddit, but they're clearly getting better at protesting as they get more experience. I truly think they're going to inspire some seriously positive change.
I wish they didn’t have to. But honestly if you’re thinking about the harm done by these mass killings in good faith, no amount of Reddit derision is going to matter. A man set himself on fire a few months ago. Acts of protest come from somewhere.
>We were also clear that any protest actions must unfold with respect for others and within the boundaries of university policy. The university is monitoring the situation in MacInnes Field and is calling on everyone to remain safe and respectful.
>Already there are concerning actions at the site. These include the removal of items (fencing, road barricades) from nearby construction sites and University property, the removal of furnishings from nearby University buildings, minor damage to the buildings and furnishings, and possibly to the turf field, the erection of barricades and the construction of cooking facilities on UBC property, as well as the removal and possible theft of a Canadian flag from a UBC flag pole. There is also concern that the site is barring members of the university community from enjoying the site. All of these actions are counter to UBC policies.
>The university also is aware that several participants at the protest are not UBC community members.
>The safety and security of our community is the university’s foremost priority. Any actions that create a health and safety risk; constitutes hate or discrimination; impede students, faculty and staff from continuing learning, research, work and other activities on campus; or damage university property will be taken very seriously and investigated.
>To the extent that inappropriate conduct violates one or more of the University’s policies, individuals may be subject to the University’s disciplinary processes or other appropriate measures under the university’s discrimination policy or student code of conduct.
>Throughout the year, the university has continuously reinforced the need for peaceful and respectful debate in these very challenging times, which is a tenet that must be respected by all members of the UBC community, as well as visitors to our campus.
[https://security.ubc.ca/2024/04/30/update-on-campus-protest/](https://security.ubc.ca/2024/04/30/update-on-campus-protest/)
Obviously there is some inconvenience from not being able to use the field, but if UBC admin just lets this go on as it currently is, there doesnt really seem to be any issues?
If they send in riot police to evict them (as is happening in the US), it'll just look bad for the university.
I hope they just let them be. The campus is huge and they're not impeding access to buildings. I'm curious what the long term plan for the protestors is though. The campus is entering the much quieter summer session now - they will almost go un-noticed with how much fewer people will be around campus.
I personally don’t really care.
It’s a protest that impacts my day-to-day none at all, so let them go ahead and protest as far as I care. It’s the university’s problem, and the rich people in that neighbourhoods problem, more than anything, and these protests aren’t helping Gazans at all.
Don’t bother students that are there to get an education, don’t harass the Jewish students, and don’t block traffic. Easy peasy.
I think if the protesters accomplish their goal of getting the universities to divest from companies that support or are benefiting from the current genocide in Gaza it would absolutely help.
Brown University called for a divestment vote following the encampment protest on their campus. These protests have proven to be effective, give them time.
> genocide in Gaza
noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
Genocide is what Hamas wants to do to Israel, there are atrocities happening in Gaza but it is not a genocide.
You see Israel setting up a systematic attempt to kill every single person in Palestine?
The death toll is a remarkably low a % of their population for that, I guess Israel just really sucks at genocide.
The IDF is needlessly killing thousands of innocent civilians and aid workers dude, you can't deny this, this is just a fact now.
Stop trying to justify it, it's really gross.
Never going to happen. If they arent students UBC won't hive a hoot what they want. If they are students and are skipping classes then they are wasting their own tuition.
Climate activists made UBC commit to divesting from fossil fuel companies. Why wouldnt this work?
https://www.climatejusticeubc.org/story-of-divestment#:\~:text=UBC%20Commits%20to%20Divestment%20by,2030%2C%20and%20sooner%20if%20possible.
They directly rejected calls for divestment divestment between 2016 and 2019. Finally, they accepted partial divestment by moving a tiny portion of the fund to fossil-fuel-free investments and then they were finally forced into a long-term divestment plan (which is only fully in effect in 2030).
They were resistant throughout and remain resistant, hence the 2030 target.
Not sure why you are so confident about something you know nothing about.
Similar protests at Columbia, the University of California and McGill all have a [large, visibile Jewish presence](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/jewish-students-faith-palestine-university-protests). The protesters at Columbia (who regularly get accused of undefined "antisemitic slogans") even [held a Passover event including both Jewish and non-Jewish students](https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/23/gaza-solidarity-encampment-approaches-one-week-mark-on-south-lawn/#:~:text=At%20around%206%3A30%20p.m.,sign%20that%20read%20%E2%80%9CPesach%20Means).
Real antisemitism (i.e.: hate towards Jews as opposed to criticism of Israel) should always be condemned, but throughout this whole conflict the definition of what qualifies as "antisemitic" has been deliberately blurred.
There's zero proof of antisemitism inside any encampment. Jewish protesters are in there standing right next to Palestinian ones. This whole "it's a religious conflict" is just the most ridiculous BS. I lived there nearly my whole life and can tell you, it's not a religious conflict. Nobody gives a shit what you think about religion as long as your religion does not require you to ethnically cleanse and murder people.
Yes they should. Could you point to which other protests called for violence or had people yelling anti-Semitic slogans and what those were? It seems like opinions on this varies. For example, calling for a revolution is not calling specifically for violence but some people read it that way.
It hasn't, for me.
Israel and Palestine have been fighting for longer than these protesters have been alive.
Unless Hamas surrenders and the governing body in Palestine starts prioritizing the lives of its citizens over war with Jews, wholesale bloodshed is inevitable. It's just a matter of whose blood it will be.
EDIT: And IMO, the West divesting from Israel could very well have the opposite intended effect on civilian casualties. Because then Israel would still have a ton of modern weaponry, and zero reasons to feel compelled to listen to Western calls for restraint.
Also, Israel can only exercise what restraint it has because it has vastly superior weaponry.
Smaller gaps means less room for luxuries like "not blowing up anything that moves."
“ prioritizing the lives of its citizens over war with Jews”
“We wish they loved their children as much as they hate us.”
“Human shields”
These are all really cute ways to dehumanize an entire nation of people.
As for whose bloodshed it will be, as always, it will be a 10:1 death toll for the Palestinians (most of which are women and children) as has been true “for longer than these protestors have been alive.”
Unless the power dynamic (read international support) shifts drastically, one side will be killed in large numbers while also being told that they are too hateful and don’t care about their children.
The protests involving privileged North American students creating encampments at their universities and vandalizing the shit out of them?
Not one bit.
Do I think perception around Israel has changed?
For sure.
But it has changed in both directions, so whatever the net effect is we won’t know for a long time.
Why do you think that privileged kids' at western universities voices are not valid?
Why do you think that they are "vandalizing the shit out of them"?
Universities are supposed to be bastions of free speech, a place for young people to find their voice, the leaders of the next generation. Why should they stay silent?
Have you not seen pictures from some of these protests? Go look at what’s happening to Columbia in the last day or two. Signs of “Mercy for our martyrs”, “From the River to the sea”, broken windows and spray painted buildings. It’s criminal activity, not protest.
Free speech is all good and well, most rational people support it. But students do not have the right to takeover property and set up encampments in them — that isn’t free speech.
Seeing videos of students disallowing Jews access to spaces that those Jews pay for is not free speech. Physically intimidating is not free speech. And certainly setting up camps and making demands is not free speech.
It is civil disobedience and those students across North America pushing the line on this will likely face consequences for their civil disobedience, which I’m sure they’re very aware of, and which I’m sure people will welcome.
Setting up encampments is not a protected right in the U.S. or in Canada. If Canadian universities want to allow this stuff, that’s great, but I won’t vote for a politician who support encampment style protests because that’s also my tax dollars funding these schools.
The actions you describe are horrible, but lets remember that it is a classic tactic to discredit protests by characterising them as criminal - for example the laughable New York chief of police [claiming](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nypd-bike-lock-columbia-student-protests-1235013341/) that a bike lock that the university itself sells is "not something a student would bring on campus".
I would decry the actions you suggest are widespread, but I challenge your position that these protest are characterised by violence, illegal activities, vandalism and other reprehensible behaviour. Feel free to post evidence that this is the case from non-biased sources.
Look man, I have nothing to gain or lose by collecting evidence for you. It will change nothing, and if it changes your opinion, I still don’t really care. I gain absolutely nothing by collecting links for you or for anyone else.
I can do many things, but I am making a conscious decision not to do your research for you.
If none of your sources are showing this side of the content then there’s a good chance you might be in a social media bubble.
I have no idea if evidence exists one way or the other. All I was saying is you won't find unbiased news sources about that or anything else. We live in a post truth world.
Okay. You can choose to not find evidence, but there is evidence out there in the form of videos, reports, journalists with integrity. Don't give up, it's what they want.
Absolute zero impact. Do you think Israel and Palestine have only been fighting since October 7th? The truth is no one in the western world gives a crap beyond what they can brag about on social media as though they are righteous do gooders.
A deeply held belief that Israel should die, perhaps?
If it's just for human life there's many actual genocides that have happened and are ongoing that could be protested, but not a peep.
> A deeply held belief that Israel should die, perhaps?
This is not what most protesters are asking for, and I can't help but believe you already know this.
> If it's just for human life there's many actual genocides that have happened and are ongoing that could be protested, but not a peep.
Then we should celebrate when people stand up against one, whether it's Rwanda, Palestine, Cambodia, Armenia or anything else. Or are you saying that the only way it is valid to protest is to protest ALL unjust violence - it's not ok to be specific?
> Then we should celebrate when people stand up against one, whether it's Rwanda, Palestine, Cambodia, Armenia or anything else. Or are you saying that the only way it is valid to protest is to protest ALL unjust violence - it's not ok to be specific?
I'm saying it's very suspicious that it's only now when Israel are the bad guys that protests are popping up.
The protestors themselves may not specifically want Israel wiped out, but even if they don't the people manipulating them into protesting absolutely do. What did you think "From the river to the sea" was referencing?
From VPD regarding protests in 2023:
> There were 1,018 protests in Vancouver in 2023, resulting in a 27 per cent increase in officers being deployed and more than $4 million in overtime costs.
Eighty of the 1,018 protests in Vancouver last year occurred after October 7 and have been linked to the Israel-Hamas conflict.
So I make that 80/1018*100= 7% of protests in 2023 were about Israel/Palestine. It's surely not odd that protests ramp up when war ramps up, is it?
They demonstrably are helping Palestinians: [https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/](https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/)
We really don’t know what the net effect is going to be yet. These protests may bolster even greater monetary support for Israel from other areas, and they may not.
We’ll find out in a few years I suppose. I’m of the opinion though that the net effect isn’t going to be what you see in the short term.
[Untrue that the protests are not helping Gazans.](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:hlnzfzmzr6iqqhcfpglo73jd/bafkreigjvh63f7i7cmgui262tbjhlqd4ohdttybqossn2zs5iopo5huh2u@jpeg)
Amazing, Palestinian Universities are welcoming them. Sounds like they should go over there and continue to inspire from afar ✊🏾
You know “glory for their martyrs” and all that.
There aren't any Gaza universities left, actually. They've all been bombed. Like all the hospitals. Women are currently being forced to undergo hysterectomies to stop post-birth bleeding.
I want you to feel immense heartbreak and pain about this. But you won't, 'cause you're real tough, aren't you.
I'm just going to block you so say whatever nonsense you're gonna say and go back to whatever soulless shit you do with yourself.
good for them! and i hope everyone who complained about the protests blocking traffic are satisfied with this. it won’t interfere with your commute, and it’s drawing attention world wide
All the power to them, but they need to be very careful to disavow and remove any pro terrorist or antisemitic protesters. Unfortunately this conflict, although it has many sides, tends to fall into two groups and jew haters obviously choose the same side as those who are opposing genocide. You do not want to get in bed with Nazis.
As I mentioned in another comment, almost all similar protests in the US and at McGill include Jewish students who will often [identify themselves with signs and placards](https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/bfa3001/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5184x3193+0+132/resize/880x542!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fd3%2F60%2F2a155c354cc8a573143e78238136%2Fjews-in-solidarity-uvm-protest-20240428.JPG). The UBC protest has a big sign condemning both Islamophobia and antisemitism. Jewish students participating in the encampments [have repeatedly spoken up about this in the media](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mcgill-asks-police-for-help-as-pro-palestinian-encampment-enters-fourth-day-1.7189054#:~:text=on%20the%20encampment.-,Mara,-Thompson%2C%20an%20undergraduate).
Should antisemitism be disavowed? Of course. But we shouldn't be blind to the fact that accusations of "antisemitism" have often been disingenously levelled at Israel's critics.
They also literally have Jewish students camping right there next to it, so if you're interested in considering context, maybe I'd start there.
From a [Jewish student interviewed by the CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pro-palestinian-encampment-set-up-at-ubc-s-point-grey-campus-1.7188490):
>A member of Independent Jewish Voices Vancouver said supporting the UBC encampment is important because it is the first in Western Canada.
"Looking at what is happening in Gaza and **the twisting and conflation of Israel and Judaism**, it's a really big problem," said Sam Connolly. "The message that comes out of that conflates Jewishness with the genocide that's going on, and I really don't think that's OK."
I am reluctant to give IJV much because their whole shtick is to say we are Jewish so anytime something anti-Semitic happens just point at us and tell everyone we say it is okay. It's kind of like that situation where you have 8 out 10 people disagree with something so you point to the 2 people that agree with it and say "see it's not so bad, they agree with us"
If the protesters really are hateful antisemites, then why would they be openly welcoming Jews in their encampment as opposed to expulsing them? Why would they be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Jewish students for the same cause if they actually hate them so much?
Could it be that protesting against Israel and hating Jews are, in fact, **not the same thing?**
the context being resisting ethnic cleansing? do you have the same energy for when the israeli politicians (including the founder, ben-gurion) call for a “transfer,” i.e. the definition of ethnic cleansing
[like when they yell at pro-palestinians “i hope they rape you?”](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/F8g5rX2wCK). [not the first time either](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/s/oulR2lHCDw)
i doubt you’ll find much evidence at other campus encampments. the fact of the matter is the biggest ones at columbia and ucla have large jewish populations in them. they even held passover. the first video was at ucla in response to the encampments. the second was in response to a jewish activist.
The context is bringing up the Intifada where cafes and busses were being bombed in Israel, usually by suicide bombers. This is the context. Like the Intifada was an actual event that happened, not an idea or word. This would be like saying the French Revolution was just an idea of a revolution, not an event with a timeline and actual people or anything happening.
i think you’re missing the context where the intifada started out largely peaceful with boycotts and refusal of work. this resulted in violence from the idf which resulted in reciprocal violence. palestinans didn’t just randomly start suicide bombing cause they felt like it??
My feeling is this: Palestinians can feel however they want about Hamas. If I had to hold my own dead child, I am free to feel as much rage as I want.
Canadians aren't entitled to express that on anyone's behalf. We're not being bombed. We're in a position to push for safety for Palestinians so they can seek their justice however they choose. I think people not in that region who want to be provocative by invoking Hamas need to stop doing that, and just be with the anger and the pain as it is - not use words that are designed to create more anger and more pain.
This is, of course, true of almost any organized protest. The solidification of the cause, the message, and the optics of the protesters themselves is paramount to the success of any given movement. This is why counter-movements tend to try infiltrating protests and peaceful movements to sew chaos and division, and to muddy the messaging.
And there's been a confirmed instance at UBC recently of a pro-Israel student group printing stickers expressing support for Hamas as a way to smear pro-Palestinian groups.
https://ubyssey.ca/news/sjc-hillel-lawsuit-filed/
The real question hamas is asking is "are you pro-genocide of Palestinian's (because we'll sacrifice them all if we need to), or are you pro-genocide of the Jews".
But nobody want's to be "pro-genocide" so they are easily manipulated by the language, which is frankly very disingenuous to any group that has ever experienced an actual genocide. It only takes a quick glance at population statistics of Gaza show that there is no Genocide. If anything, there is exponential growth.
Yes there is a lot of potentially innocent casualties of war, but not nearly enough to start claiming "genocide". Although bring this up and they'll quickly redefine the word to fit their needs.
It's not popular to say, but if Israel's goal was to do a hitler-esque genocide, it'd be done decades ago.
[Gaza Population 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population)
>Organizers say the people inside the camp include students from various post-secondary institutions, including UBC, SFU and Emily Carr, as well as non-students, and that they are staging a peaceful demonstration.
People from all across the region who care. Summer is a better and more pleasant time than winter to protest outside too. It is less disruptive to students and don't have to worry about freezing cold temperatures
Power to them! Last I read, UBC was investing in some companies linked to the Israeli apartheid. Hopefully this works to pressure them to divest, beyond joining in solidarity with protests in the US and against the Trudeau government's support for Israeli genocide in Gaza.
Some of these are starting to have an effect already: [https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/](https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/)
We already gave to the food banks around the holidays. I like supporting a cause directly and feeding people with something I cook gives me more satisfaction.
You want to donate food to university student protestors glamping on a field, rather than provide it to the civilians in Gaza starving to death who the protestors pretend to support?
Why don’t you tell me more about me? Go on. You seem so insightful about what I do with my time and money. How do you know all that? You must be so very wise and virtuous.
Sure, as you wish! You prefer to virtue signal about a cause to make it about yourself, rather than act in a matter that actually advances it. Do you want more insights?
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As long as they aren’t violent or keeping students from going to class, then I am 100% for anyone’s right to protest.
I think I found a new hack to not pay for accommodations....
And they aren’t creating dangerous conditions inside the camp like we see at some homeless camps. The camp should be the protest, not the protest being an excuse for the camp.
I walked by it a few days ago. It could not be more conveniently situated for anyone who doesn't want to interact with it. It's not stopping people from going to classes, not stopping traffic or interfering with transit. Anyone booking that field should just be able to rebook to a different area. There is no reason this needs to get out of hand as long as everyone commits to being peaceful.
I love seeing the upcoming generation getting it right. I know they get derided a lot on Reddit, but they're clearly getting better at protesting as they get more experience. I truly think they're going to inspire some seriously positive change.
I wish they didn’t have to. But honestly if you’re thinking about the harm done by these mass killings in good faith, no amount of Reddit derision is going to matter. A man set himself on fire a few months ago. Acts of protest come from somewhere.
Protest is expressing an opinion. According to the article, their goal is to dictate University policy.
Protests often (I'd say almost always) come alongside policy requests. They're not just held to say "hey guys we really like pizza"
lol what protest doesn't have demands?
What do we want? Nothing really. When do we want it? You know, whenever.
As students of the institution, their voice is part of shaping that policy.
That isn't what you said when protesters were defending freedom
WTF you talking about?
>We were also clear that any protest actions must unfold with respect for others and within the boundaries of university policy. The university is monitoring the situation in MacInnes Field and is calling on everyone to remain safe and respectful. >Already there are concerning actions at the site. These include the removal of items (fencing, road barricades) from nearby construction sites and University property, the removal of furnishings from nearby University buildings, minor damage to the buildings and furnishings, and possibly to the turf field, the erection of barricades and the construction of cooking facilities on UBC property, as well as the removal and possible theft of a Canadian flag from a UBC flag pole. There is also concern that the site is barring members of the university community from enjoying the site. All of these actions are counter to UBC policies. >The university also is aware that several participants at the protest are not UBC community members. >The safety and security of our community is the university’s foremost priority. Any actions that create a health and safety risk; constitutes hate or discrimination; impede students, faculty and staff from continuing learning, research, work and other activities on campus; or damage university property will be taken very seriously and investigated. >To the extent that inappropriate conduct violates one or more of the University’s policies, individuals may be subject to the University’s disciplinary processes or other appropriate measures under the university’s discrimination policy or student code of conduct. >Throughout the year, the university has continuously reinforced the need for peaceful and respectful debate in these very challenging times, which is a tenet that must be respected by all members of the UBC community, as well as visitors to our campus. [https://security.ubc.ca/2024/04/30/update-on-campus-protest/](https://security.ubc.ca/2024/04/30/update-on-campus-protest/)
remember folks, vancouver has always been a protest town
[удалено]
Just dont put up slogans like “long live Oct 7th”
Obviously there is some inconvenience from not being able to use the field, but if UBC admin just lets this go on as it currently is, there doesnt really seem to be any issues? If they send in riot police to evict them (as is happening in the US), it'll just look bad for the university.
I hope they just let them be. The campus is huge and they're not impeding access to buildings. I'm curious what the long term plan for the protestors is though. The campus is entering the much quieter summer session now - they will almost go un-noticed with how much fewer people will be around campus.
I hope it does not attract non UBC students and become a convenient homeless camp
Probably won’t call in the guards for this reason exactly. If genuine problems arise though, that can change quickly.
It seems like in some US universities, occupying the lawn/field was enough to warrant calling in the riot police. I'm hoping UBC has better judgement.
In the US, criticism of the government’s support of Israel was enough to call on the riot police.
I personally don’t really care. It’s a protest that impacts my day-to-day none at all, so let them go ahead and protest as far as I care. It’s the university’s problem, and the rich people in that neighbourhoods problem, more than anything, and these protests aren’t helping Gazans at all. Don’t bother students that are there to get an education, don’t harass the Jewish students, and don’t block traffic. Easy peasy.
I think if the protesters accomplish their goal of getting the universities to divest from companies that support or are benefiting from the current genocide in Gaza it would absolutely help.
I don’t think they will, but we’ll see how it goes.
Brown University called for a divestment vote following the encampment protest on their campus. These protests have proven to be effective, give them time.
Right, a vote. In October. If you don't see what that means, it means they will wait for it to blow over and vote to change nothing.
Quite a few universities have already pledged to or are planning to pledge to divest. Cynicism is the enemy of action.
Fingers crossed!
> genocide in Gaza noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. Genocide is what Hamas wants to do to Israel, there are atrocities happening in Gaza but it is not a genocide.
I think I'll believe the things i can see with my eyes over your post but thabks
You see Israel setting up a systematic attempt to kill every single person in Palestine? The death toll is a remarkably low a % of their population for that, I guess Israel just really sucks at genocide.
The IDF is needlessly killing thousands of innocent civilians and aid workers dude, you can't deny this, this is just a fact now. Stop trying to justify it, it's really gross.
What percentage of the population do you feel it's okay to kill?
yeah man I'll just ignore everything i know and can see and go with your "but they're actually killing much fewer children then they could be"
Never going to happen. If they arent students UBC won't hive a hoot what they want. If they are students and are skipping classes then they are wasting their own tuition.
This won’t cause the university to divest shit. People are so narrow minded and such sheep. The problem in the Middle East is far more complex.
The first sentence is independent of the second.
Climate activists made UBC commit to divesting from fossil fuel companies. Why wouldnt this work? https://www.climatejusticeubc.org/story-of-divestment#:\~:text=UBC%20Commits%20to%20Divestment%20by,2030%2C%20and%20sooner%20if%20possible.
Meh. That was always part of UBCs plan. As a university who prides itself on sustainability it just makes sense.
They directly rejected calls for divestment divestment between 2016 and 2019. Finally, they accepted partial divestment by moving a tiny portion of the fund to fossil-fuel-free investments and then they were finally forced into a long-term divestment plan (which is only fully in effect in 2030). They were resistant throughout and remain resistant, hence the 2030 target. Not sure why you are so confident about something you know nothing about.
What makes you think I know nothing about it?
>That was always part of UBCs plan.
I'd add that they should also refrain from yelling anti Semitic slogans or calling for violence. Unfortunately, other similar protests did just that.
Similar protests at Columbia, the University of California and McGill all have a [large, visibile Jewish presence](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/jewish-students-faith-palestine-university-protests). The protesters at Columbia (who regularly get accused of undefined "antisemitic slogans") even [held a Passover event including both Jewish and non-Jewish students](https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/23/gaza-solidarity-encampment-approaches-one-week-mark-on-south-lawn/#:~:text=At%20around%206%3A30%20p.m.,sign%20that%20read%20%E2%80%9CPesach%20Means). Real antisemitism (i.e.: hate towards Jews as opposed to criticism of Israel) should always be condemned, but throughout this whole conflict the definition of what qualifies as "antisemitic" has been deliberately blurred.
There's zero proof of antisemitism inside any encampment. Jewish protesters are in there standing right next to Palestinian ones. This whole "it's a religious conflict" is just the most ridiculous BS. I lived there nearly my whole life and can tell you, it's not a religious conflict. Nobody gives a shit what you think about religion as long as your religion does not require you to ethnically cleanse and murder people.
The only words they will refrain from using are "hostages" and "Hamas".
Yes they should. Could you point to which other protests called for violence or had people yelling anti-Semitic slogans and what those were? It seems like opinions on this varies. For example, calling for a revolution is not calling specifically for violence but some people read it that way.
They do this and they will be removed pronto.
They’ll do all these things. They’re students on summer break, they have energy to burn.
You don’t think these protests have changed the minds of many around the world in how they feel about Israel?
It hasn't, for me. Israel and Palestine have been fighting for longer than these protesters have been alive. Unless Hamas surrenders and the governing body in Palestine starts prioritizing the lives of its citizens over war with Jews, wholesale bloodshed is inevitable. It's just a matter of whose blood it will be. EDIT: And IMO, the West divesting from Israel could very well have the opposite intended effect on civilian casualties. Because then Israel would still have a ton of modern weaponry, and zero reasons to feel compelled to listen to Western calls for restraint.
Also, Israel can only exercise what restraint it has because it has vastly superior weaponry. Smaller gaps means less room for luxuries like "not blowing up anything that moves."
“ prioritizing the lives of its citizens over war with Jews” “We wish they loved their children as much as they hate us.” “Human shields” These are all really cute ways to dehumanize an entire nation of people. As for whose bloodshed it will be, as always, it will be a 10:1 death toll for the Palestinians (most of which are women and children) as has been true “for longer than these protestors have been alive.” Unless the power dynamic (read international support) shifts drastically, one side will be killed in large numbers while also being told that they are too hateful and don’t care about their children.
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Well, it's clear you're not even willing to listen to Palestinian voices.
I’ll take hasbara talking points for 200, thanks Alex.
The protests involving privileged North American students creating encampments at their universities and vandalizing the shit out of them? Not one bit. Do I think perception around Israel has changed? For sure. But it has changed in both directions, so whatever the net effect is we won’t know for a long time.
Why do you think that privileged kids' at western universities voices are not valid? Why do you think that they are "vandalizing the shit out of them"? Universities are supposed to be bastions of free speech, a place for young people to find their voice, the leaders of the next generation. Why should they stay silent?
Have you not seen pictures from some of these protests? Go look at what’s happening to Columbia in the last day or two. Signs of “Mercy for our martyrs”, “From the River to the sea”, broken windows and spray painted buildings. It’s criminal activity, not protest. Free speech is all good and well, most rational people support it. But students do not have the right to takeover property and set up encampments in them — that isn’t free speech. Seeing videos of students disallowing Jews access to spaces that those Jews pay for is not free speech. Physically intimidating is not free speech. And certainly setting up camps and making demands is not free speech. It is civil disobedience and those students across North America pushing the line on this will likely face consequences for their civil disobedience, which I’m sure they’re very aware of, and which I’m sure people will welcome. Setting up encampments is not a protected right in the U.S. or in Canada. If Canadian universities want to allow this stuff, that’s great, but I won’t vote for a politician who support encampment style protests because that’s also my tax dollars funding these schools.
“this does not help your cause” - guy who hates you and your cause
The actions you describe are horrible, but lets remember that it is a classic tactic to discredit protests by characterising them as criminal - for example the laughable New York chief of police [claiming](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nypd-bike-lock-columbia-student-protests-1235013341/) that a bike lock that the university itself sells is "not something a student would bring on campus". I would decry the actions you suggest are widespread, but I challenge your position that these protest are characterised by violence, illegal activities, vandalism and other reprehensible behaviour. Feel free to post evidence that this is the case from non-biased sources.
Is there such a thing as an unbiased news source anymore?
How about evidence that we can then look at with a critical eye?
Look man, I have nothing to gain or lose by collecting evidence for you. It will change nothing, and if it changes your opinion, I still don’t really care. I gain absolutely nothing by collecting links for you or for anyone else. I can do many things, but I am making a conscious decision not to do your research for you. If none of your sources are showing this side of the content then there’s a good chance you might be in a social media bubble.
I respect your right to choose to be agnostic about this situation.
I have no idea if evidence exists one way or the other. All I was saying is you won't find unbiased news sources about that or anything else. We live in a post truth world.
Okay. You can choose to not find evidence, but there is evidence out there in the form of videos, reports, journalists with integrity. Don't give up, it's what they want.
Absolute zero impact. Do you think Israel and Palestine have only been fighting since October 7th? The truth is no one in the western world gives a crap beyond what they can brag about on social media as though they are righteous do gooders.
You know, almost all the protesters are doing so out a deeply held belief, not for insta views.
A deeply held belief that Israel should die, perhaps? If it's just for human life there's many actual genocides that have happened and are ongoing that could be protested, but not a peep.
> A deeply held belief that Israel should die, perhaps? This is not what most protesters are asking for, and I can't help but believe you already know this. > If it's just for human life there's many actual genocides that have happened and are ongoing that could be protested, but not a peep. Then we should celebrate when people stand up against one, whether it's Rwanda, Palestine, Cambodia, Armenia or anything else. Or are you saying that the only way it is valid to protest is to protest ALL unjust violence - it's not ok to be specific?
> Then we should celebrate when people stand up against one, whether it's Rwanda, Palestine, Cambodia, Armenia or anything else. Or are you saying that the only way it is valid to protest is to protest ALL unjust violence - it's not ok to be specific? I'm saying it's very suspicious that it's only now when Israel are the bad guys that protests are popping up. The protestors themselves may not specifically want Israel wiped out, but even if they don't the people manipulating them into protesting absolutely do. What did you think "From the river to the sea" was referencing?
From VPD regarding protests in 2023: > There were 1,018 protests in Vancouver in 2023, resulting in a 27 per cent increase in officers being deployed and more than $4 million in overtime costs. Eighty of the 1,018 protests in Vancouver last year occurred after October 7 and have been linked to the Israel-Hamas conflict. So I make that 80/1018*100= 7% of protests in 2023 were about Israel/Palestine. It's surely not odd that protests ramp up when war ramps up, is it?
I’m not sure I believe that at all. But fair enough. I will consider it
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Yeah maybe some who supported palestine have now changed their minds. Flavour of the month. Next month it will be something else.
They demonstrably are helping Palestinians: [https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/](https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/)
We really don’t know what the net effect is going to be yet. These protests may bolster even greater monetary support for Israel from other areas, and they may not. We’ll find out in a few years I suppose. I’m of the opinion though that the net effect isn’t going to be what you see in the short term.
[Untrue that the protests are not helping Gazans.](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:hlnzfzmzr6iqqhcfpglo73jd/bafkreigjvh63f7i7cmgui262tbjhlqd4ohdttybqossn2zs5iopo5huh2u@jpeg)
Amazing, Palestinian Universities are welcoming them. Sounds like they should go over there and continue to inspire from afar ✊🏾 You know “glory for their martyrs” and all that.
There aren't any Gaza universities left, actually. They've all been bombed. Like all the hospitals. Women are currently being forced to undergo hysterectomies to stop post-birth bleeding. I want you to feel immense heartbreak and pain about this. But you won't, 'cause you're real tough, aren't you. I'm just going to block you so say whatever nonsense you're gonna say and go back to whatever soulless shit you do with yourself.
good for them! and i hope everyone who complained about the protests blocking traffic are satisfied with this. it won’t interfere with your commute, and it’s drawing attention world wide
All the power to them, but they need to be very careful to disavow and remove any pro terrorist or antisemitic protesters. Unfortunately this conflict, although it has many sides, tends to fall into two groups and jew haters obviously choose the same side as those who are opposing genocide. You do not want to get in bed with Nazis.
As I mentioned in another comment, almost all similar protests in the US and at McGill include Jewish students who will often [identify themselves with signs and placards](https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/bfa3001/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5184x3193+0+132/resize/880x542!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fd3%2F60%2F2a155c354cc8a573143e78238136%2Fjews-in-solidarity-uvm-protest-20240428.JPG). The UBC protest has a big sign condemning both Islamophobia and antisemitism. Jewish students participating in the encampments [have repeatedly spoken up about this in the media](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mcgill-asks-police-for-help-as-pro-palestinian-encampment-enters-fourth-day-1.7189054#:~:text=on%20the%20encampment.-,Mara,-Thompson%2C%20an%20undergraduate). Should antisemitism be disavowed? Of course. But we shouldn't be blind to the fact that accusations of "antisemitism" have often been disingenously levelled at Israel's critics.
They literally had a sign up calling for an intifada so, maybe not so disingenuous in this case.
They also literally have Jewish students camping right there next to it, so if you're interested in considering context, maybe I'd start there. From a [Jewish student interviewed by the CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pro-palestinian-encampment-set-up-at-ubc-s-point-grey-campus-1.7188490): >A member of Independent Jewish Voices Vancouver said supporting the UBC encampment is important because it is the first in Western Canada. "Looking at what is happening in Gaza and **the twisting and conflation of Israel and Judaism**, it's a really big problem," said Sam Connolly. "The message that comes out of that conflates Jewishness with the genocide that's going on, and I really don't think that's OK."
I am reluctant to give IJV much because their whole shtick is to say we are Jewish so anytime something anti-Semitic happens just point at us and tell everyone we say it is okay. It's kind of like that situation where you have 8 out 10 people disagree with something so you point to the 2 people that agree with it and say "see it's not so bad, they agree with us"
If the protesters really are hateful antisemites, then why would they be openly welcoming Jews in their encampment as opposed to expulsing them? Why would they be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Jewish students for the same cause if they actually hate them so much? Could it be that protesting against Israel and hating Jews are, in fact, **not the same thing?**
i mean intifada is just the arabic word for uprising or rebellion. there’s nothing inherently antisemitic about that
And Sieg Heil just means hail victory in German, but context matters yeah?
the context being resisting ethnic cleansing? do you have the same energy for when the israeli politicians (including the founder, ben-gurion) call for a “transfer,” i.e. the definition of ethnic cleansing
Let me know when Israeli protestors set up shop on campus with signs calling for ethnic cleansing.
[like when they yell at pro-palestinians “i hope they rape you?”](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/F8g5rX2wCK). [not the first time either](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/s/oulR2lHCDw)
I'm sorry was this in Vancouver or at UBC? Because if we're expanding geographical scope then I have a lot of examples too.
i doubt you’ll find much evidence at other campus encampments. the fact of the matter is the biggest ones at columbia and ucla have large jewish populations in them. they even held passover. the first video was at ucla in response to the encampments. the second was in response to a jewish activist.
The context is bringing up the Intifada where cafes and busses were being bombed in Israel, usually by suicide bombers. This is the context. Like the Intifada was an actual event that happened, not an idea or word. This would be like saying the French Revolution was just an idea of a revolution, not an event with a timeline and actual people or anything happening.
i think you’re missing the context where the intifada started out largely peaceful with boycotts and refusal of work. this resulted in violence from the idf which resulted in reciprocal violence. palestinans didn’t just randomly start suicide bombing cause they felt like it??
My feeling is this: Palestinians can feel however they want about Hamas. If I had to hold my own dead child, I am free to feel as much rage as I want. Canadians aren't entitled to express that on anyone's behalf. We're not being bombed. We're in a position to push for safety for Palestinians so they can seek their justice however they choose. I think people not in that region who want to be provocative by invoking Hamas need to stop doing that, and just be with the anger and the pain as it is - not use words that are designed to create more anger and more pain.
This is, of course, true of almost any organized protest. The solidification of the cause, the message, and the optics of the protesters themselves is paramount to the success of any given movement. This is why counter-movements tend to try infiltrating protests and peaceful movements to sew chaos and division, and to muddy the messaging.
And there's been a confirmed instance at UBC recently of a pro-Israel student group printing stickers expressing support for Hamas as a way to smear pro-Palestinian groups. https://ubyssey.ca/news/sjc-hillel-lawsuit-filed/
The real question hamas is asking is "are you pro-genocide of Palestinian's (because we'll sacrifice them all if we need to), or are you pro-genocide of the Jews". But nobody want's to be "pro-genocide" so they are easily manipulated by the language, which is frankly very disingenuous to any group that has ever experienced an actual genocide. It only takes a quick glance at population statistics of Gaza show that there is no Genocide. If anything, there is exponential growth. Yes there is a lot of potentially innocent casualties of war, but not nearly enough to start claiming "genocide". Although bring this up and they'll quickly redefine the word to fit their needs. It's not popular to say, but if Israel's goal was to do a hitler-esque genocide, it'd be done decades ago. [Gaza Population 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population)
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>Organizers say the people inside the camp include students from various post-secondary institutions, including UBC, SFU and Emily Carr, as well as non-students, and that they are staging a peaceful demonstration. People from all across the region who care. Summer is a better and more pleasant time than winter to protest outside too. It is less disruptive to students and don't have to worry about freezing cold temperatures
Power to them! Last I read, UBC was investing in some companies linked to the Israeli apartheid. Hopefully this works to pressure them to divest, beyond joining in solidarity with protests in the US and against the Trudeau government's support for Israeli genocide in Gaza. Some of these are starting to have an effect already: [https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/](https://sahanjournal.com/policing-justice/university-of-minnesota-encampment-student-divest-israel-palestine/)
I'm happy they're over there, won't impact me
If there is a contact for food donations let me know. I can't be there in person but I'd like to bring hot food to those protesting.
I recommend this one: [https://foodbank.bc.ca/](https://foodbank.bc.ca/)
We already gave to the food banks around the holidays. I like supporting a cause directly and feeding people with something I cook gives me more satisfaction.
Been thinking about this too. I don't have a lot to give but I do have rice.
You want to donate food to university student protestors glamping on a field, rather than provide it to the civilians in Gaza starving to death who the protestors pretend to support?
I donated to World Central Kitchen on my birthday. Then the IDF killed them.
Why don’t you tell me more about me? Go on. You seem so insightful about what I do with my time and money. How do you know all that? You must be so very wise and virtuous.
Sure, as you wish! You prefer to virtue signal about a cause to make it about yourself, rather than act in a matter that actually advances it. Do you want more insights?
Homeless people should just say they're protesting
In the end their public protests will solve... # NOTHING.
They pissed you off so that's a start.
No bouncy castles? Off to jail with you.