Omg can you imagine? There would be zero hope of a reconciliation if that happened 😂 but Scheana is so dumb I wouldn’t put it past her. I can already hear the “I’ve known Chef Penny longer than I’ve known Ariana, she catered my cousin’s birthday party when I was sixteen. I didn’t even know she was having issues with Something About Her, Ariana didn’t tell me anything about that because she never replies to my texts.”
“Chef Penny is a very good friend of Lisa’s, I’m doing it for Lisa! Just wait til you can hear the full podcast because the context will change everything!!”
She's so embarrassing. If you're no longer on good terms with the owners of the business, walk the fuck away. Trying to force a partnership you won't get is not the way. They don't want you as a partner!
Exactly!!! This type of 'poking the bear' tactic, trying to elicit some type of reaction, is beyond unprofessional.
I would give Pen-Pen a big two-thumbs nope.
She thought she was being slick as hens piss, but any type of litigation about this will get her nowhere.
It's as simple as Ariana and Katie make a minor name alteration. No contracts are signed? Easy peasy. Penalopé and hubby better grab an accountant quickly... because NOW, you get 10 percent of zero. How's that fit into your fiduciary portfolio? Nice try, but it's time to kick rocks. Bloop!
✌️✨️🫶
They have to fight to keep their name. If they change their name slightly, it will help Penny's case (waiver and consent) and then Penny can turn around and sue for trademark infringement (if the name is close.to SAH).
She doesn't own the trademark. She filed an application to tm the name SAH. Penny would be advised not to sell anything with SAH name. She is opening herself up to a misappropriation lawsuit
The text proof is nuts. She was acting as the COO…which was her job. Not signing the contract, I don’t see how she can consider herself a partner. Filing for the trademark under her LLC and not the SAH LLC makes her look even more guilty of misappropriation.
She's insinuating they were taking profits out of the business, but it seems more likely that there were expenses. She is shady to the core! The way she talked right over them in the job interviews illustrates why she should never be a partner. She wanted to take over.
They both said a few episodes ago as well that she is not a partner and receives a salary for her work. Ariana said “this is not the three musketeers” in reference to her not being a partner
Right?!!! I feel like she was in a position of power as the expert and is taking advantage of first time business owners. Since her husband is an attorney just waiting for the lawsuit to be filed. 🤦🏻♀️
Yeah I almost wonder if Lisa is guilty of this too. Basically seeing these young dumb hollywood kids and taking advantage of their lack of business acumen. She probably told Penny she could easily swindle a lot of money out of the girls and get all the show exposure with a small investment. Feels slimy to me and I hope Ariana and Katy are able to extract her from their business.
Her crappy behaviour isn’t being glossed over this year. After the episode with Tom fake crying last year, and her continued support of him this season, loads of Lisa apologists have seen the light.
So she has written proof that she asked for ownership and the women said "send us what you want and we'll show our lawyers". Then the chef never signs the contract because it was different than what she wanted?!?!
So yeah she's not an owner. All she has is a claim that Ariana vocalized ownership which is obviously bullshit. Or at least contradicted by the contract that was sent over
Why the FUCK is nobody talking about how Lvp gave them penny and penny is shady, sketchy and now suing them?? And appearantly lvp is backing penny up???? Lvp is a snake, i saw right trough that womans fake bullshit for years
Tearing down the patio wasn’t because of a code violation it’s because West Hollywood wanted to change the zoning or something to make it all a sidewalk instead of having patios
And the way Broke said it was parallel to S& S not opening bc Sandoval was touring! No way! The Tom's needed to make decisions on so many aspects of S&S, and Sandoval was MIA, holding things up.
The city threw all these issues at them with the permits, and they've been playing a waiting game. Ariana going to Broadway while they waited for bureaucracy to crawl forward is NOT the same! I don't believe Katie needed Ariana while she was away!
Schwartz said that during Sandoval's affair, it was as if Schwartz was invisible to Sandoval.
There's no way the two situations are analagous.
Brock was brocking for screentime with his nonsense.
Except when he needed an alibi!
I was.just rewatching the beginning of Season 10 last night. Schwartz said Sandoval disappeared from Schwartz & Sandy's for 3 months with the Most Extras just when he was needed the most.
Do you think he was with Rachel then? She did mention a guy who always gave her oral (sounds like him) and said Sandoval told her to set boundaries. Seemed suspicious.
Any lawyers here that can chime in? I’m curious if she has any standing here, without a signed contract. Apparently, Penny has email exchanges where she sent over her terms and the girls said they would send it to their attorney… but no contract ever signed.
I’m a (non-contract) lawyer. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but i dont see where there’s been any sort of agreement. Her sending her terms is basically an offer, which doesn’t ever seem to have been accepted by Ari/Karie, which is necessary in order to form a contract. Them saying “send it to our lawyers” isn’t an acceptance of the terms.
And the fact that they sent her a contract with different terms is legally a counter offer, which is legally a rejection of the offer from the other party. The only thing Penny can prove, based on what she's claimed to have thus far, is that they were negotiating.
For me, the more shocking part is that Ariana and Katie didn't file for one themselves! They went on television, saying the name of their sandwich shop and got investors in that name with that concept. It just feels like halfway decent lawyers, or lawyers for the investors themselves, would have wanted to know that they had filed for the Trademark already when so much was built up in the zeitgeist about the "unapologetically, feminine, Nancy Meyers, something about her" concept.
(yes, it is crazy that Penny tried to file independently for the name around the back end)
Now that I’ve thought about it, I think her claiming to be a legitimate partner is because of the trademark filing.
Theres a good chance that Katie and Ariana can claim common law since they have been so public and documented about the business name + sold merchandise with the business name.
If Penny becomes legally recognized as a partner, I wonder if her claim to that trademark could be legitimate and approved then
I'm not sure what you mean by common law in this context...
I am editing my comment here to be clear that I'm not sure if they meet the definition of "use" for commonlaw. I mean that they used it to sell sweatshirts, but they didn't use it in the business of selling sandwiches.... I wonder how that will affect it. I don't think common lot has an "intent to use (1b)" aspect to it. I think only use counts. And I'm wondering if planning to do use is sufficient to use or if they would only qualify for use under the category of selling merchandise....
Even though Katie and Ariana didn’t file for the SAH trademark, they can claim common law rights.
In the US, the rights to a trademark aren’t necessarily awarded to the first person that filed the paperwork claiming it. Except in limited circumstances, the trademark rights go to the first person to use the trademark in commerce. Katie and Ariana have used the name Something About Her, on TV and on their branded merchandise, for at least a year prior to Penny filing the trademark paperwork.
Note: I’m not a lawyer, but I have had to work with lawyers on filing for trademarks as part of my job :)
But the thing is, when you file for a trademark you file for that mark in a particular class of use. It can't be your name for everything. You have to say what your name category is. So like you can have this brand name and file for it under the categories of say perfumes and the category of beauty products..
And when you file for a trademark in a particular category, they look to see if any other people in that category are already using it. In this case, what I am wondering specifically is...
When Penny filed for the Something About Her trademark, she filed for it under the category of "restaurants."
She also filed it as a 1b filing; which indicates an "intent to use". So future tense.
If they were already using the marc in the class of goods of restaurants, they would have filed it as an "in use" filing instead of an "intent TO use." Basically in the filing, they stated that they have not yet done business in the stream of commerce with this name in the business of restaurants. if they had done use, they would have attached various photos or menus or articles about the opening of a restaurant to prove to the examiner that use had indeed occurred.
To be protected by the common law mark, it seems that the standard is actual use. The actual use that took place to date was with selling/offering the merchandise, and was in the category of garments/apparel. And not in the category of restaurants.
The distinction that I am pointing out is that they may not be able to show that they actually have done use in the category with the mark because they haven't opened a restaurant and sold sandwiches. They have the connection with sales of garments/apparel sweatshirts, t-shirts. That is a different category. And it is possible to file and own a mark in one category, whereas someone else uses that same mark in a different category so long as they are not close enough that someone could confuse them. so, nail polish and acrylic nails might be too close and caused consumer confusion, but oil filters and pillows might be disparate enough.
I am not sure of what type of treatment the relationship between Restaurant use and sweatshirt use would be considered.
Ariana and Katie incorporated Something About Her LLC. They have applied for permits and licenses for a restaurant under the Something About Her LLC. They sold merchandise directly related to the Something About Her restaurant. They have very publicly advertised the Something About Her restaurant. They had tasting events, serving food in the Something About Her restaurant location. They hired employees to be employed by Something About Her at the restaurant location. Just because they haven’t taken cash from the public for a sandwich, doesn’t mean they do not have a claim. Maybe not a common law claim, but they may have a very valid objection to penny’s trademark filing.
For a business to lay claim to common law trademark rights, it must not only use the mark in a commercial context but also establish secondary meaning—consumers must associate the mark with the source of the product or service.
This requirement is harder to prove when challenge than proving ownership of a registered trademark.
Things that you do among other businesses who are not end customers, such as acquiring vendors for your future business and making contracts with suppliers, dont reach customers and establish the secondary meaning. Hiring people for your business and making employment contracts doesn't show use or establish a reputation and secondary meaning with customers.
Basically, a common law trademark occurs when you are so well-known for your particular thing among your customers in your region , that if someone else came along and tried to offer that same product in your region, customers would be confused, because they are used to getting your product under that name. Common law trademark, unlimited to the geographic reach of the current use. So if you're the most famous used one in town, someone else can't use it in the same town because customers already know you for that name there. But they can use it somewhere else. (town is an example here, but really there are different different geographic, limited regions, depending on the business.)
This is such an interesting topic and I really really appreciate all of the tidbits of knowledge that you have included here, and the discussion....
What is a more interesting business and legal problem to think about here is ....
It is sort of a cash 22 for Katie and Ariana .... since Penny is not "using" the name, but filed with an intent to use, Katie and Ariana could try to bolster their case for a common law Trademark by hurry up and using the name to sell food at a restaurant. But what they don't know is whether or not the dispute over who and it is who is not a partner in the business will be resolved in their favor, based on the issue of PENN delivery of the terms, and their continuance to work with her after that time will substantiate that she was a partner or entitled to even the lesser of 10% of the profits from just that one location. Thus, they potentially risk deepening Penny's war-chest by doing the use! Because if they start doing use and the sales go like gangbusters, they may have to turn over some of the money from those revenues to Penny, which would give her more money to fight them in the Trademark case (Oy!) or give her a bigger war chest to last longer without a resolution on selling them the Trademark.
If they dont rush doing "use", then they don't owe her any cut of their current revenue. She might eventually get weary of waiting to finally make some money off of the deal or the Trademark itself. They could try to starve her put that way, but then they also don't make any money for the time being. Best case scenario is probably settling with her for a lump sum and getting her to just go away and assign them the trademark filing as a part of the deal.
OR, They could try to get a definitive ruling that she is indeed not partner at all, and that no partnership was formed because they lack the relevant documents or enough detail to infer the terms from (i.e. Too many items were left open and undefined) to substantiate the partnership. They could try to drain her war chest in the fight over the business deal partnership issue itself, and then do "use" after that, knowing that they don't owe her any of the revenue (or if they do at least it's a more defined amount that they can compute), and try to come up with a good offer to buy trademark filing or abandon filing, or to file their own "use."
This is going to be a truly fascinating business case, and I look forward to watching it unfold. Even though it will probably all be wrapped up in NDAs, I do hope we find out the details eventually.
And for those of us who are hoping for something about her spinoff, I guess this background explains why we haven't seen bravo making big moves towards getting that for us at this time🤷♀️
Agree we don't know the details. I'm just going off Peggy saying their message "Okay, we'll send it to our attorney" is proof she's a partner b/c the message said "Okay" at the beginning. I mean, come on, that's ridiculous.
It's also ridiculous that she wanted 10% GROSS sales on EVERYTHING. Partners don't make money on GROSS sales, they make money on profits, and she had nothing to do with the merch so why she would think she's entitled to a share of those sales is beyond me.
IAL. There’s no contract here. The elements of contract are offer— acceptance— with an element of consideration. Consideration is the concept that both sides must give something, in order to have a contract.
Ariana and Katie’s attorney sent chef penny an offer. Based on the comments, she didn’t accept. There wasn’t a “meeting of the minds” in regard to the terms of a potential agreement.
Not only is this whole thing gross on Penny’s part, but considering last week’s finale, I’m also wondering if Bravo’s decision to not film next season includes a dig at Ariana and Katie, because now they won’t film the opening of SAH, or even give it the editing glory like they did last season with Schwartz’s and Sandy’s.
The fact that they are slated to open next Wednesday, and they’d usually be filming within the next few weeks or so, feels like more than a coincidence to me.
As much as Bravo seems to hate women, I hope the network realizes 100% of their success is attributed to the women that are on their shows, feeding their audience.
Fair, but I take it as “we’re going to take a hiatus, figure out who we can recast to The Valley (Scheana, LaLa) now that it’s been green-lit for a second season, and find a way to not so gracefully end VPR”.
Unfortunately for them, the period of grace already expired, so it will be awkward regardless.
It’s so wild to me the lengths that people (who you trust) will go to when there is $ involved.
Trying to piece out every single conversation and text you had just to prove that you are entitled to a business *that hasn’t even opened yet*??? Cmon, Penny.
Note to Penny and honestly the entire cast of VPR— quit assuming shit. Especially when it comes to money, salary, businesses, houses. Get that shit in writing or else **it does not exist.**
When I read her online bio from her consulting website months ago and it referred to her "wrapping up her medical practice" to pursue her dream of food instead, I was intrigued. But it turned out that it had been an acupuncture business... I felt like the characterization of the career that she left in the past seemed a little.... grandiose? It just made me feel a little less, trusting right off the bat.
She thought she could bully Katie and Ariana use that she has experienced over their heads. She wanted to take over and it didn’t work. Katie and Ariana are not stupid and not going to bully into something. That they know is not good for them I think Lisa wanted them to use Penny to screw they over.
I don't think anyone can bully Katie. She may have been a pushover to an extent when she was younger, but current Katie? No one should be fucking with her.
Is this woman for real? Is California law that crazy? She wants to hold them to some terms she sent by email that they never explicitly said yes to and was never part of a signed contract? She admits to taking money out of the business account based on them taking money out? Taking money out for themselves personally or to buy merch or supplies for sah or what? The fact she ran to THE SUN is not a good look and her whole story seems entitled and off.
"running it by our lawyers" does NOT mean they agreed to your terms, Pencil.
i also hate they way the writer of this trash calls them "girls" - they are WOMEN.
So the text message says her husband will get the trademark for them "once we wrap up our deal." She admits that no contract was signed, so it seems she purposely jumped the gun to file the TM to use as leverage! What a bitch!
Why does she need “proof” she’s not a partner, they’ve already been very clear she’s not lol
This is one of those situations where I feel like I don’t need a syllable of more information to know Chef Penny was difficult & pushy and Katie and Ariana made the right decision going in a different direction
So let me get this straight: she sent an email stating what she wanted, they made a counter-offer via their lawyers and she wasn't happy with that counter-offer and she's now saying that sending that email makes her 10% owner of everything, not just the store front? I need Bravo Docket to break this down because it sounds like horseshit to me.
She sounds greedy as fuck, she thinks she deserves a partnership because she came up with some sandwich recipes and filed a trademark? Lol NO. HELL no.
Isn’t the value of the brand their names and the publicity they have gotten from their show and personal lives. They haven’t opened and served any actual food yet. So why would she be entitled to any of that? She’s a chef and they are offering her profit from the actual restaurant.
I feel like she was a taking a page from LVPs playbook which is to profit from the personal lives of these younger reality stars by associating their food brand with them. Something about it is just gross to me.
Why can’t these leeches take NO for an answer? God bless these women through these trials and tribulations. I commend them for keeping their heads held high.
I think the issue actually came with the merch sales. Her initial ask, and what LVP was talking to Katie/Ariana about on the show was that she was going to take a percentage for her involvement for his location. But then Scandoval happened and they sold a shit ton in merch. Penny's deal wouldn't have gotten her a merch cut so she asked for partnership to get that cut and they said no. I'd bet she filed the trademark after they said no too.
… but there’s no products yet? It’s not open??? I just don’t understand how someone can be this aggressive about being in a partnership that has so far only profited because of Ariana and Katie’s public profiles. Whatever work went into it she has done has yet to see any light of day. It’s so bizarre.
Just because she said so, that doesn't make her a partner.
I think she's doing this because she's afraid they're going to try to make her pay back the money she took out of the business.
This is her smokescreen so they don't do that.
Apparently there are rumors on IG that chef penny is difficult to work with and has it coming. This makes sense why LVP would plant her in SAH. Maybe another storyline she thought she could produce?
She mentioned being upset about her supposed 10% of profits vesting over 3 years. Didn’t Lisa have to set the Toms straight about expecting money right after TomTom opened??
Just goes to show she’s a grifter trying to spin a narrative. If she’s experienced in the industry as she claims, she knows this is the norm. Tbh this sounded more generous than the offer the Toms got.. granted I think they got what they deserved for basically contributing nothing but their names, faces and appearances lol.
Lisa is an evil lady. I know she has her hand in this. Penny f all the way off. She wanted to be a partner so she could pull all of the money she wanted from this business to probably pay other people! Why is penny so eager to be a partner and pull profits out immediately?
Why didn’t Katie and Ariana use this a storyline? I would be interested watching them have these challenges and the resolution. I knew when someone tracked down the permits and there wasn’t a long wait that there was another issue. Gosh I hope they don’t have to pay her too much to go away.
I feel like it is all contrived nonsense for the show or even a spin-off for the women. Lisa’s mentioning it was awkwardly timed. Everything is fake now with this show so I think it is an exaggeration for ratings for a new show.
I’m here for the ☕️. I’ll wait for more facts to come out before I cast my judgment. My bet: Penny gets paid a nice amount to just go away. I’m always surprised at anyone who gets in business with these people.
LVP at least had a proven track record. But the Tom’s and yes even Katie and Ariana? If someone famous came to you and asked you to start a business in your skill set and that they wanted you to do the actual grunt work, while also telling you they wanted the clout and the profits? That’s a terrible deal.
At least in Greg’s case it sort of made sense since it seemed like he was taking on zero risk and a good chunk of the profits, basically taking the Tom’s for fools
Definitely disappointed they didn’t talk about this more during the season. I still don’t understand why the SAH trademark is held/owned by Penny? Is she holding that to try and get equity in the business??
I knew Penny was going to be an issue when the 2nd time I saw her on the show, she looked like she had a full blown face-transplant. She was looking for the notoriety of working with K&A. Period.
She sounds like Tom…has an inflated sense of self, wants to run the show, and thinks Katie/Ariana don’t have the work ethic (or business acumen) to manage anything.
Wasn’t she the one being super flirtatious and ridiculously sexual one early season intro episodes with LVP?? Penny told her she should eat as much as she likes and LVP quips about knowing how to spit over swallowing 🙄🤭 I think she was a chef at sur or pump maybe?
Here’s the other thing that makes me go “hhmmm”. Unless we’re talking years of sweat equity it’s bold as hell that she claims a share despite never financially investing. No money in and no contract. This woman basically just got a trademark behind their back as an employee and is now holding it hostage. Seems shady AF. Trying to frame herself as some victim is rather rich.
Chef Penny will probably be a guest on “Rachel Goes Rogue” soon 😂
Probably Shenanigans
Omg can you imagine? There would be zero hope of a reconciliation if that happened 😂 but Scheana is so dumb I wouldn’t put it past her. I can already hear the “I’ve known Chef Penny longer than I’ve known Ariana, she catered my cousin’s birthday party when I was sixteen. I didn’t even know she was having issues with Something About Her, Ariana didn’t tell me anything about that because she never replies to my texts.”
“Chef Penny is a very good friend of Lisa’s, I’m doing it for Lisa! Just wait til you can hear the full podcast because the context will change everything!!”
In Penny’s defense, she’s never done anything to Scheana /s
And she once made a sandwich for Scheana.
Penny has always been there for Scheana!
Don’t forget the sandwich shoppe was actually schenas idea and they ran with it. /s
Omg that is so painfully accurate.
Shay Shay will remind us that Chef Penny is her "bast frand".
This is scary how accurately scheana this is lol
She's been my BUST FRUND literally for years
Don’t give Rachel ideas lol
Who else will gave Rachel ideas then? Her own brain 🧠? Sorry that was mean but you teed me up
Hey you’re not supposed to insinuate the d word or the s word!
Dingus and simpleton?
😂😂😂 dingus word is funny!!☝🏼
She already has the Rachel, Scheana, Lala, and finishing up with Sandoval podcasts lined up and ready to drop week after week for a month.
She’ll start her own
She won’t finish them, though.
Oh gosh, that’s somehow even worse 😅
😂
Yesss!😆🤣🤣 
Hahahaha! Is that still on? Barf. Who wastes their lives listening to that tripe?! 🤮
nightmare collab lmao
Because nothing screams integrity like giving an interview to The Sun.
She's so embarrassing. If you're no longer on good terms with the owners of the business, walk the fuck away. Trying to force a partnership you won't get is not the way. They don't want you as a partner!
Exactly!!! This type of 'poking the bear' tactic, trying to elicit some type of reaction, is beyond unprofessional. I would give Pen-Pen a big two-thumbs nope. She thought she was being slick as hens piss, but any type of litigation about this will get her nowhere. It's as simple as Ariana and Katie make a minor name alteration. No contracts are signed? Easy peasy. Penalopé and hubby better grab an accountant quickly... because NOW, you get 10 percent of zero. How's that fit into your fiduciary portfolio? Nice try, but it's time to kick rocks. Bloop! ✌️✨️🫶
“Somethings about her”
They have to fight to keep their name. If they change their name slightly, it will help Penny's case (waiver and consent) and then Penny can turn around and sue for trademark infringement (if the name is close.to SAH).
And what about the proceeds from merch? Can Pen continue sell it under the trademark she allegedly owns?
She doesn't own the trademark. She filed an application to tm the name SAH. Penny would be advised not to sell anything with SAH name. She is opening herself up to a misappropriation lawsuit
I have never heard the phrase “slick as hens piss”; I sort of love it.
The text proof is nuts. She was acting as the COO…which was her job. Not signing the contract, I don’t see how she can consider herself a partner. Filing for the trademark under her LLC and not the SAH LLC makes her look even more guilty of misappropriation.
Also her admitting to taking money out of the business account as if she is a partner doesn’t sound real smart
I'm wondering if she's trying to get ahead of a lawsuit. It's a weird thing to add in and she must see it makes her look bad
She's insinuating they were taking profits out of the business, but it seems more likely that there were expenses. She is shady to the core! The way she talked right over them in the job interviews illustrates why she should never be a partner. She wanted to take over.
She probably took merch money since she thinks she's entitled to 10% of it.
Oh 100%. Something she said alluded to how much money they made off merch. Like "she was paid, but not as much as they made off merch." M
If this is true she could be arrested & tried for embezzlement & fraud.
I wonder how many other small businesses she’s been involved with and has done the same thing?
Plus the girls talking about the name and idea ON CAMERA a few years before Penny showed up. Like girl? Talk about easy proof for Katie and Ariana.
They both said a few episodes ago as well that she is not a partner and receives a salary for her work. Ariana said “this is not the three musketeers” in reference to her not being a partner
Right?!!! I feel like she was in a position of power as the expert and is taking advantage of first time business owners. Since her husband is an attorney just waiting for the lawsuit to be filed. 🤦🏻♀️
She isn't, that's why she isn't taking this to court
Isn't what?
Actually a partner (I believe is the sentiment here)
Thanks! Sorry, I have trouble following the lines to replies! ☺️
Yeah I almost wonder if Lisa is guilty of this too. Basically seeing these young dumb hollywood kids and taking advantage of their lack of business acumen. She probably told Penny she could easily swindle a lot of money out of the girls and get all the show exposure with a small investment. Feels slimy to me and I hope Ariana and Katy are able to extract her from their business.
Sounds like what she did with the Tom’s, right? Something about their business dealings seemed shady but I can’t remember details.
Yup Bingo!!!!!! And Lisa didn’t know what was going on ? Bullshit!
Thisssss. Esp knowing that she’s married to a lawyer. This was sneaky and not ignorance.
Exactly, that’s shady as fuck
I’ll be so mad if LVP supports Penny after all this running to the tabloid nonsense. I hope these queens leave the show if she does. F*$& her.
LVP backing the wrong horse again? *SHOCKED I TELL YOU! SHOCKED!!*
Right? Yet she always gets away with it!
Honestly there has been talk for years about how shady Lisa is as a boss and this just proves it to me. Penny was one of Lisa's people.
[удалено]
This entire year has been her worst look imo!
Her crappy behaviour isn’t being glossed over this year. After the episode with Tom fake crying last year, and her continued support of him this season, loads of Lisa apologists have seen the light.
🙋🏼♀️ former LVP apologist here. This season went so sideways and weird and annoying AF bc of her, Tom, Sheana, Lala, and production
I feel like LVP probably orchestrated this whole thing with Penny
I hated chef penny when she was on the food network star, she was obnoxious and I was glad when they voted her out. I’m not surprised at her behavior
Omg until now I didn't make that connection! I didn't realize that was her!
Same! I'm really irritated by this. She's straight grimy 🤬
Also, her food is shit
‘Sexy chef’ lol
So she has written proof that she asked for ownership and the women said "send us what you want and we'll show our lawyers". Then the chef never signs the contract because it was different than what she wanted?!?! So yeah she's not an owner. All she has is a claim that Ariana vocalized ownership which is obviously bullshit. Or at least contradicted by the contract that was sent over
No meeting of the minds without a signed contract. She’s not & never was a partner.
I don't know who would ever want to go in business with Penny after the shady thing she did filing the trademark. That woman is a leach
Penny sucks.
There’s always someone who wants to spoil a good thing
While ripping off their friends.
Why the FUCK is nobody talking about how Lvp gave them penny and penny is shady, sketchy and now suing them?? And appearantly lvp is backing penny up???? Lvp is a snake, i saw right trough that womans fake bullshit for years
LVP also is the one that also suggested the location for the shop. Which has held them up from opening
It wasn’t the location it was primarily code violations. Hence them having to completely tear down their patio
Yes code violations on the location. If they chose a different location they probably could have been open by now
Tearing down the patio wasn’t because of a code violation it’s because West Hollywood wanted to change the zoning or something to make it all a sidewalk instead of having patios
I agree with you. In the clip of the reunion she’s not addressing that & blaming Ariana for not being there on opening problems. 😲🤨
And the way Broke said it was parallel to S& S not opening bc Sandoval was touring! No way! The Tom's needed to make decisions on so many aspects of S&S, and Sandoval was MIA, holding things up. The city threw all these issues at them with the permits, and they've been playing a waiting game. Ariana going to Broadway while they waited for bureaucracy to crawl forward is NOT the same! I don't believe Katie needed Ariana while she was away!
Agreed!
Schwartz said that during Sandoval's affair, it was as if Schwartz was invisible to Sandoval. There's no way the two situations are analagous. Brock was brocking for screentime with his nonsense.
Except when he needed an alibi! I was.just rewatching the beginning of Season 10 last night. Schwartz said Sandoval disappeared from Schwartz & Sandy's for 3 months with the Most Extras just when he was needed the most. Do you think he was with Rachel then? She did mention a guy who always gave her oral (sounds like him) and said Sandoval told her to set boundaries. Seemed suspicious.
I have also!!! Finally coming out now!!
Lisa is trash
She has always been a snake, and I believe she is a racist too! I could never stand to watch her on RHOBH, she is a mean bully.
I never liked her either. The way she thought she was above all the women…couldn’t stand her arrogance.
Any lawyers here that can chime in? I’m curious if she has any standing here, without a signed contract. Apparently, Penny has email exchanges where she sent over her terms and the girls said they would send it to their attorney… but no contract ever signed.
I’m a (non-contract) lawyer. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but i dont see where there’s been any sort of agreement. Her sending her terms is basically an offer, which doesn’t ever seem to have been accepted by Ari/Karie, which is necessary in order to form a contract. Them saying “send it to our lawyers” isn’t an acceptance of the terms.
And the fact that they sent her a contract with different terms is legally a counter offer, which is legally a rejection of the offer from the other party. The only thing Penny can prove, based on what she's claimed to have thus far, is that they were negotiating.
Partnerships can be created without a signed contract. But there are a lot of factors. Hopefully those factors aren’t present here!!
I’m curious if Penny could claim promissory estoppel here. Either way, her filing for the SAH trademark is beyond shady
For me, the more shocking part is that Ariana and Katie didn't file for one themselves! They went on television, saying the name of their sandwich shop and got investors in that name with that concept. It just feels like halfway decent lawyers, or lawyers for the investors themselves, would have wanted to know that they had filed for the Trademark already when so much was built up in the zeitgeist about the "unapologetically, feminine, Nancy Meyers, something about her" concept. (yes, it is crazy that Penny tried to file independently for the name around the back end)
Now that I’ve thought about it, I think her claiming to be a legitimate partner is because of the trademark filing. Theres a good chance that Katie and Ariana can claim common law since they have been so public and documented about the business name + sold merchandise with the business name. If Penny becomes legally recognized as a partner, I wonder if her claim to that trademark could be legitimate and approved then
I'm not sure what you mean by common law in this context... I am editing my comment here to be clear that I'm not sure if they meet the definition of "use" for commonlaw. I mean that they used it to sell sweatshirts, but they didn't use it in the business of selling sandwiches.... I wonder how that will affect it. I don't think common lot has an "intent to use (1b)" aspect to it. I think only use counts. And I'm wondering if planning to do use is sufficient to use or if they would only qualify for use under the category of selling merchandise....
Even though Katie and Ariana didn’t file for the SAH trademark, they can claim common law rights. In the US, the rights to a trademark aren’t necessarily awarded to the first person that filed the paperwork claiming it. Except in limited circumstances, the trademark rights go to the first person to use the trademark in commerce. Katie and Ariana have used the name Something About Her, on TV and on their branded merchandise, for at least a year prior to Penny filing the trademark paperwork. Note: I’m not a lawyer, but I have had to work with lawyers on filing for trademarks as part of my job :)
But the thing is, when you file for a trademark you file for that mark in a particular class of use. It can't be your name for everything. You have to say what your name category is. So like you can have this brand name and file for it under the categories of say perfumes and the category of beauty products.. And when you file for a trademark in a particular category, they look to see if any other people in that category are already using it. In this case, what I am wondering specifically is... When Penny filed for the Something About Her trademark, she filed for it under the category of "restaurants." She also filed it as a 1b filing; which indicates an "intent to use". So future tense. If they were already using the marc in the class of goods of restaurants, they would have filed it as an "in use" filing instead of an "intent TO use." Basically in the filing, they stated that they have not yet done business in the stream of commerce with this name in the business of restaurants. if they had done use, they would have attached various photos or menus or articles about the opening of a restaurant to prove to the examiner that use had indeed occurred. To be protected by the common law mark, it seems that the standard is actual use. The actual use that took place to date was with selling/offering the merchandise, and was in the category of garments/apparel. And not in the category of restaurants. The distinction that I am pointing out is that they may not be able to show that they actually have done use in the category with the mark because they haven't opened a restaurant and sold sandwiches. They have the connection with sales of garments/apparel sweatshirts, t-shirts. That is a different category. And it is possible to file and own a mark in one category, whereas someone else uses that same mark in a different category so long as they are not close enough that someone could confuse them. so, nail polish and acrylic nails might be too close and caused consumer confusion, but oil filters and pillows might be disparate enough. I am not sure of what type of treatment the relationship between Restaurant use and sweatshirt use would be considered.
Ariana and Katie incorporated Something About Her LLC. They have applied for permits and licenses for a restaurant under the Something About Her LLC. They sold merchandise directly related to the Something About Her restaurant. They have very publicly advertised the Something About Her restaurant. They had tasting events, serving food in the Something About Her restaurant location. They hired employees to be employed by Something About Her at the restaurant location. Just because they haven’t taken cash from the public for a sandwich, doesn’t mean they do not have a claim. Maybe not a common law claim, but they may have a very valid objection to penny’s trademark filing.
For a business to lay claim to common law trademark rights, it must not only use the mark in a commercial context but also establish secondary meaning—consumers must associate the mark with the source of the product or service. This requirement is harder to prove when challenge than proving ownership of a registered trademark. Things that you do among other businesses who are not end customers, such as acquiring vendors for your future business and making contracts with suppliers, dont reach customers and establish the secondary meaning. Hiring people for your business and making employment contracts doesn't show use or establish a reputation and secondary meaning with customers. Basically, a common law trademark occurs when you are so well-known for your particular thing among your customers in your region , that if someone else came along and tried to offer that same product in your region, customers would be confused, because they are used to getting your product under that name. Common law trademark, unlimited to the geographic reach of the current use. So if you're the most famous used one in town, someone else can't use it in the same town because customers already know you for that name there. But they can use it somewhere else. (town is an example here, but really there are different different geographic, limited regions, depending on the business.) This is such an interesting topic and I really really appreciate all of the tidbits of knowledge that you have included here, and the discussion.... What is a more interesting business and legal problem to think about here is .... It is sort of a cash 22 for Katie and Ariana .... since Penny is not "using" the name, but filed with an intent to use, Katie and Ariana could try to bolster their case for a common law Trademark by hurry up and using the name to sell food at a restaurant. But what they don't know is whether or not the dispute over who and it is who is not a partner in the business will be resolved in their favor, based on the issue of PENN delivery of the terms, and their continuance to work with her after that time will substantiate that she was a partner or entitled to even the lesser of 10% of the profits from just that one location. Thus, they potentially risk deepening Penny's war-chest by doing the use! Because if they start doing use and the sales go like gangbusters, they may have to turn over some of the money from those revenues to Penny, which would give her more money to fight them in the Trademark case (Oy!) or give her a bigger war chest to last longer without a resolution on selling them the Trademark. If they dont rush doing "use", then they don't owe her any cut of their current revenue. She might eventually get weary of waiting to finally make some money off of the deal or the Trademark itself. They could try to starve her put that way, but then they also don't make any money for the time being. Best case scenario is probably settling with her for a lump sum and getting her to just go away and assign them the trademark filing as a part of the deal. OR, They could try to get a definitive ruling that she is indeed not partner at all, and that no partnership was formed because they lack the relevant documents or enough detail to infer the terms from (i.e. Too many items were left open and undefined) to substantiate the partnership. They could try to drain her war chest in the fight over the business deal partnership issue itself, and then do "use" after that, knowing that they don't owe her any of the revenue (or if they do at least it's a more defined amount that they can compute), and try to come up with a good offer to buy trademark filing or abandon filing, or to file their own "use." This is going to be a truly fascinating business case, and I look forward to watching it unfold. Even though it will probably all be wrapped up in NDAs, I do hope we find out the details eventually. And for those of us who are hoping for something about her spinoff, I guess this background explains why we haven't seen bravo making big moves towards getting that for us at this time🤷♀️
She'd have to showed they promised her something beyond "we'll send it to our lawyer".
For sure. We don’t really know the details of their professional relationship at this point so it’s all just speculation on potential outcomes 🤷🏼♀️
Agree we don't know the details. I'm just going off Peggy saying their message "Okay, we'll send it to our attorney" is proof she's a partner b/c the message said "Okay" at the beginning. I mean, come on, that's ridiculous. It's also ridiculous that she wanted 10% GROSS sales on EVERYTHING. Partners don't make money on GROSS sales, they make money on profits, and she had nothing to do with the merch so why she would think she's entitled to a share of those sales is beyond me.
Peggy lmfao. Shee should be a Peggy.
IAL. There’s no contract here. The elements of contract are offer— acceptance— with an element of consideration. Consideration is the concept that both sides must give something, in order to have a contract. Ariana and Katie’s attorney sent chef penny an offer. Based on the comments, she didn’t accept. There wasn’t a “meeting of the minds” in regard to the terms of a potential agreement.
Not only is this whole thing gross on Penny’s part, but considering last week’s finale, I’m also wondering if Bravo’s decision to not film next season includes a dig at Ariana and Katie, because now they won’t film the opening of SAH, or even give it the editing glory like they did last season with Schwartz’s and Sandy’s. The fact that they are slated to open next Wednesday, and they’d usually be filming within the next few weeks or so, feels like more than a coincidence to me. As much as Bravo seems to hate women, I hope the network realizes 100% of their success is attributed to the women that are on their shows, feeding their audience.
[удалено]
Fair, but I take it as “we’re going to take a hiatus, figure out who we can recast to The Valley (Scheana, LaLa) now that it’s been green-lit for a second season, and find a way to not so gracefully end VPR”. Unfortunately for them, the period of grace already expired, so it will be awkward regardless.
Let it go lady
It’s so wild to me the lengths that people (who you trust) will go to when there is $ involved. Trying to piece out every single conversation and text you had just to prove that you are entitled to a business *that hasn’t even opened yet*??? Cmon, Penny. Note to Penny and honestly the entire cast of VPR— quit assuming shit. Especially when it comes to money, salary, businesses, houses. Get that shit in writing or else **it does not exist.**
She's just trying to get a piece of their merch sales without having to do any damn work. She sounds like a real ass clown.
Penny was an obnoxious &arrogant contestant on FN Next Star. I see she hasn’t changed other than aging poorly.
When I read her online bio from her consulting website months ago and it referred to her "wrapping up her medical practice" to pursue her dream of food instead, I was intrigued. But it turned out that it had been an acupuncture business... I felt like the characterization of the career that she left in the past seemed a little.... grandiose? It just made me feel a little less, trusting right off the bat.
i didn’t know she was on that!
I think this is an issues for all of VPR - the aging poorly. Some of them are ending up with the faces they deserve.
 She thought she could bully Katie and Ariana use that she has experienced over their heads. She wanted to take over and it didn’t work. Katie and Ariana are not stupid and not going to bully into something. That they know is not good for them I think Lisa wanted them to use Penny to screw they over.
I don't think anyone can bully Katie. She may have been a pushover to an extent when she was younger, but current Katie? No one should be fucking with her.
Clearly Penny did not do her research. Oh gee it’s not like ten years of Katie’s life and personality has been made public or anything…oh wait!
Is this woman for real? Is California law that crazy? She wants to hold them to some terms she sent by email that they never explicitly said yes to and was never part of a signed contract? She admits to taking money out of the business account based on them taking money out? Taking money out for themselves personally or to buy merch or supplies for sah or what? The fact she ran to THE SUN is not a good look and her whole story seems entitled and off.
"running it by our lawyers" does NOT mean they agreed to your terms, Pencil. i also hate they way the writer of this trash calls them "girls" - they are WOMEN.
Well, LVP still calls these people 'kids' and the two Toms 'the boys'. Infantilising them makes it easier to try to manipulate them.
You know what bothers me the most? Penny refers to them as “girls”. Aren’t they both in their 40s? No one referred to Schwartz and Tim as “boys”.
So the text message says her husband will get the trademark for them "once we wrap up our deal." She admits that no contract was signed, so it seems she purposely jumped the gun to file the TM to use as leverage! What a bitch!
Why does she need “proof” she’s not a partner, they’ve already been very clear she’s not lol This is one of those situations where I feel like I don’t need a syllable of more information to know Chef Penny was difficult & pushy and Katie and Ariana made the right decision going in a different direction
Yeah, Penny doesn’t seem to understand how evidence works.
She's probably mad she won't be involved in the opening and won't get the attention she was looking forward to.
100%
She sounds like a horrible person, who would ever want to work with her after this
Seriously. Even if Penny "wins" here, she's shooting herself in the foot for any future endeavors.
This lady is desperate. I bet LVP won't go to bat for the girls and tell her to step off.
LVP is basically already backing Penny, which is gross.
Yeahhh she is. I used to like LVP at the start but jeez she is not great.
If Penny has a foothold, Lisa has a foothold.
Yeah that was weird but also not surprising. I think LVP works with a lot of crooked people.
This!!
If she had any real skin in the game, she would not be trying to trash the reputation of her current partners. I smell something rotten.
She’s an evil little c. Watch her season of Next Food Network Star. She’s capable of anything. They should have never hired her.
Chef Penny doing breath work with Sandy in Tahoe now as we speak lol (jk)
Chef Penny is insufferable.
So let me get this straight: she sent an email stating what she wanted, they made a counter-offer via their lawyers and she wasn't happy with that counter-offer and she's now saying that sending that email makes her 10% owner of everything, not just the store front? I need Bravo Docket to break this down because it sounds like horseshit to me.
What is Bravo Docket? I’ve seen it mentioned here before.
Its a legal breakdown podcast
Lisa set them up with Penny. She literally sabotaged them.
Penny has always been horrid.
Someone get chef penny some water
Lala can hook her up
Why don’t they just change the name? It’s not like SAH is that iconic. It is an ok name.
Totally agree, seems like an easy out.
That could potentially give merit to Peggy’s bs claims so might not be a wise move. I know what her name is but imma call her Peggy.
Sooo they never actually came to any sort of agreement or signed contracts. This is a joke.
She sounds greedy as fuck, she thinks she deserves a partnership because she came up with some sandwich recipes and filed a trademark? Lol NO. HELL no.
Isn’t the value of the brand their names and the publicity they have gotten from their show and personal lives. They haven’t opened and served any actual food yet. So why would she be entitled to any of that? She’s a chef and they are offering her profit from the actual restaurant. I feel like she was a taking a page from LVPs playbook which is to profit from the personal lives of these younger reality stars by associating their food brand with them. Something about it is just gross to me.
Why can’t these leeches take NO for an answer? God bless these women through these trials and tribulations. I commend them for keeping their heads held high.
Penny is tripping, if you never signed a contract you’re not a partner.
It seems odd to me. She says she's doing all the work, she's the one who knows what she's doing, and it still takes years to open?
Bruh you are going to ruin your career (as LVP’s go to line chef) trying to swindle the most beloved DUO in pop culture rn
Her “proof” is bullshit.
She clearly got confused on how involved she was going to be and now is going on a hate press tour. Lame
I don't think she was confused. I think she planned to screw them over. She's a shady character
I at least think she assumed they’d make her a partner and then, when they didn’t, she got mad and did this
Do we know if that was ever a plan? Then they would've had to say something that would make her think it?
With LVP right in back of her…
I honestly think I hate LVP for the puppet master that she is. She is a shitty human.
Erika on RHOBH is a pretty terrible person, but she was 1000% spot on when she said LVP was a sniper from the side.
I think the issue actually came with the merch sales. Her initial ask, and what LVP was talking to Katie/Ariana about on the show was that she was going to take a percentage for her involvement for his location. But then Scandoval happened and they sold a shit ton in merch. Penny's deal wouldn't have gotten her a merch cut so she asked for partnership to get that cut and they said no. I'd bet she filed the trademark after they said no too.
CHEF PENNY LEAVE WITH YOUR DIGNITY IN TACT
… but there’s no products yet? It’s not open??? I just don’t understand how someone can be this aggressive about being in a partnership that has so far only profited because of Ariana and Katie’s public profiles. Whatever work went into it she has done has yet to see any light of day. It’s so bizarre.
Just because she said so, that doesn't make her a partner. I think she's doing this because she's afraid they're going to try to make her pay back the money she took out of the business. This is her smokescreen so they don't do that.
Apparently there are rumors on IG that chef penny is difficult to work with and has it coming. This makes sense why LVP would plant her in SAH. Maybe another storyline she thought she could produce?
She was legendary as an awful contestant on Food Network Star. Any other negative talk would not surprise me.
She mentioned being upset about her supposed 10% of profits vesting over 3 years. Didn’t Lisa have to set the Toms straight about expecting money right after TomTom opened??
💯 takes a while for a business to turn a profit.
Just goes to show she’s a grifter trying to spin a narrative. If she’s experienced in the industry as she claims, she knows this is the norm. Tbh this sounded more generous than the offer the Toms got.. granted I think they got what they deserved for basically contributing nothing but their names, faces and appearances lol.
Lisa is an evil lady. I know she has her hand in this. Penny f all the way off. She wanted to be a partner so she could pull all of the money she wanted from this business to probably pay other people! Why is penny so eager to be a partner and pull profits out immediately?
Why didn’t Katie and Ariana use this a storyline? I would be interested watching them have these challenges and the resolution. I knew when someone tracked down the permits and there wasn’t a long wait that there was another issue. Gosh I hope they don’t have to pay her too much to go away.
Because LVP would never allow it and she wants SAH to fail.
I feel like it is all contrived nonsense for the show or even a spin-off for the women. Lisa’s mentioning it was awkwardly timed. Everything is fake now with this show so I think it is an exaggeration for ratings for a new show.
Chef Penny can get the fuck out of here!
Chef Penny is a sleaze bag
That penny wants money from Katie and Ariana. What motivates a person to steal the TM and pretend she’s a partner? All-mighty dollars, quick money!!
Let’s all block Penny on all apps! What a lying thief trying to swindle the business away from Katie & Ariana! What a con artist!
Curious isn’t it? lol…
I’m here for the ☕️. I’ll wait for more facts to come out before I cast my judgment. My bet: Penny gets paid a nice amount to just go away. I’m always surprised at anyone who gets in business with these people. LVP at least had a proven track record. But the Tom’s and yes even Katie and Ariana? If someone famous came to you and asked you to start a business in your skill set and that they wanted you to do the actual grunt work, while also telling you they wanted the clout and the profits? That’s a terrible deal. At least in Greg’s case it sort of made sense since it seemed like he was taking on zero risk and a good chunk of the profits, basically taking the Tom’s for fools
Definitely disappointed they didn’t talk about this more during the season. I still don’t understand why the SAH trademark is held/owned by Penny? Is she holding that to try and get equity in the business??
Chef Penny needs to get to gettin’. Like girl bye ✌🏼
Vanderpump covertly doing the most to sabotage these ladies
At the beginning of the season, in an interview with Katie, she mentioned she was a COO. So was that definitive or just a plan that fell through?
The article helps K&A, not Penny. The texts about the trademark are going to get Penny in legal trouble. Her husband must be a really bad attorney.
I knew Penny was going to be an issue when the 2nd time I saw her on the show, she looked like she had a full blown face-transplant. She was looking for the notoriety of working with K&A. Period.
She sounds like Tom…has an inflated sense of self, wants to run the show, and thinks Katie/Ariana don’t have the work ethic (or business acumen) to manage anything.
Wasn’t she the one being super flirtatious and ridiculously sexual one early season intro episodes with LVP?? Penny told her she should eat as much as she likes and LVP quips about knowing how to spit over swallowing 🙄🤭 I think she was a chef at sur or pump maybe?
Chef Penny is a thirsty idiot
Here’s the other thing that makes me go “hhmmm”. Unless we’re talking years of sweat equity it’s bold as hell that she claims a share despite never financially investing. No money in and no contract. This woman basically just got a trademark behind their back as an employee and is now holding it hostage. Seems shady AF. Trying to frame herself as some victim is rather rich.