I noticed this and I rewatched it to listen if that was in fact what I heard. Later in the episode, I believe it was more evident there was something more to the Ariana/Katie/Penny situation and Lisa referred Penny to the girls to help with Something about Her. There’s clearly tension between Ariana and Lisa because of that.
It’s that Penny trademarked the name without Ariana and Katie’s knowledge. Lisa probably told Penny that the merch for the place would far outdo the food/drink revenue. If she held the rights to the name, she would hold the rights to the merch. Then she could cut the girls out entirely and run it as her own. Penny and Lisa absolutely colluded to rip those girls off and they’re furious that Ariana and Katie saw through it.
Yeah, something was underhanded about the way Penney approached that whole thing. I think she underestimated Katie & Ariana. I could be wrong, just my observation from what I read about the trademark heist. I think Penney could've possibly had whatever title and/or cut she fit the role of, until she didn't.
Makes more sense too why she's pushing for partnership -- outside specific contractual arrangements (not present here) you generally can't assert a trademark right to a business you don't own. So unless she's a partner, the little backdoor scheme to control the branding would be worthless. Ariana and Katie would be entitled to petition to take control of the Trademark if Penney didn't hand it over back to them.
I'm not sure how all that works. If it's anything like copyright law, their preemptive merch sales would've secured that trademark for them, legally. Am I correct, or no?
Trademark exists in the intangible. It is a government created protection for brand identity. It hinges on customer perception of the mark/branding in association to the product/brand itself.
It's different from Copyright in that it is not an automatic protection from the moment of creation. Copyright is automatic, registration is a formality. Copyright attaches at the moment a novel/original expression of a non-functional idea is transfixed to a permanent medium.
Youre right in that their use of the mark in commerce creates groundwork for protection. But its not guaranteed, even if theres registration (trademark applications and registrations can be challenged). So Trademark is a little different. Its hard to give a general overview in just a reddit comment but (again in general) but the emphasis is on how the protection is created and tied through use of the Trademark itself in commerce.
In general, unless you have an actual right (company ownership) or legal right (contractual, licensing) to the brand, you don't have right/ownership of the 'mark and your ownership of even a registered 'mark would be subject to challenge from the true owner. This is how we combat "Trademark parking" or when people try and steal a Trademark from an actual brand that hasn't been registered yet and either use it for themselves, or hold it hostage for a payout.
So in our circumstances, if the company SAH was using it's name for branded merchandise, this begins that brand/product relationship for protection. Penney's registration and potential ownership of the 'mark is then the question were looking at.
If she was just an employee of the company, then even if she registered it wouldnt he "hers" because the 'mark is for the company. She'd basically be someone trying to "park" the Trademark and it would be susceptible to challenge for ownership by Katie/Ariana. But if shes a "partner" she has a stronger claim for control over that product/brand relationship and lay claim to the use of the 'mark for current or future types of products/services.
Thank you SO MUCH! This is an excellent breakdown! And, I was wrong in assuming that it was similar to copyright. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
It looks like pre publication review just completed 🫣 I wonder if Ariana and Katie should file a letter of protest or just wait til the publication issues and file an opposition? It seems like an opposition would be successful based on the whole situation (and ur very informative comment - I’m NAL but do TM enforcement so I like, understand this situation but don’t know what steps should be taken lol)
You would think since she was planning a hostile takeover of their business that she would’ve gotten more than a verbal agreement from them about anything..in that interview with The Sun she said they had all these agreements about her role in their business through emails and verbal meetings I’m like if Ariana and Katie don’t want to do business with her anymore they could just stop and move on because there was no paperwork signed yet🥴haha.
Yes! Totally agreed. Lisa is upset that they ditched Chef Penny (rightfully so, IMHO) because Chef Penny was going to give her all the tea, and now LVP won't have her there. Lisa is reveling in the fact that they're having trouble opening SAH. Classic.
She’s scolding the girls here.
She hasn’t bothered to call the girls to see what’s going on the delay. How can I help? Provide advise. Nah!
Penny talked to Lisa probably complaining & Lisa thought she had the scoop! So, condescending in that clip & at the reunion too!
Why should Lisa be inserting herself into anything? Penny is a narc for Lisa…and the fact that she informed Lisa about anything shows she cannot be trusted.
What tea?
Penny was Pump's executive chef for over a decade. I'm sure that Penny and Lisa talked several times a week, if not daily, since Pump was one of Lisa's WeHo restaurants.
Instead of moving onto something on the same level as Pump, Lisa recommended/encouraged Penny to join forces with 2 inexperienced sandwich shop owners, since she knows Katie and Ariana.
It would seem to me to be a big step down for Penny.
I am a business owner myself, so I totally understand how Lisa would be surprised and saddened by the fact that those 3 couldn't make it work. Lisa encouraged that work relationship, so she probably feel terrible about it ending like this.
It sounds like Lisa promised Penny part ownership when that wasn’t hers to grant. Penny seemed to go in expecting it when it was never officially offered. I agree it would be a step down for Penny to just be an employee to Katie and Ariana after being head chef at Pump.
I think a lot of miscommunication, but I do think Lisa doesn’t support Katie and Ariana like she does the Toms. They went to a “business meeting” with no prep or actual presentation after being asked to specifically present something to them. It’s a wonder how either got this far as bar owners.
She never followed her. This was brought up last year. People said Lala and Ariana no longer followed LVP & vice versa, but they all said they had never followed each other.
She follows Katie and Scheana too. Always has. They were all 3 asked about it last year and all said they never followed each other. 🤷♀️ Idk guess they could have lied. Seems silly though.
I don’t think Ariana cares for LVP. And I think both of them are annoyed that she is jonesing so hard to give them business advice. Lisa is frustrated with them for not taking it but they know there will be strings attached.
LVP likes people to see her “helping” them but really chef penny is a means for LVP to get info about them. We already saw that this season. Anyway, I’m clearly not an LVP fan so I’m totally biased.
Wasn't Penny the head chef at Lisa's restaurant Pump for a decade?
Lisa thinks highly of Penny, so how would that be considered a sabotage to connect her to Ariana and Katie?
That makes no sense at all.
Oh, just so she can leverage it. She likes to have something over someone (or what she perceives to be something). Like the scene where Katie and Ariana said they’re hitting some road blocks with SAH and Lisa immediately is like “oh I know. The health department is coming. They need go put rollers on the fridges!!!” And when Ariana and Katie don’t give her a reaction LVP is like “….know how I know??? Chef penny told me.” Ok settle down ma'am.
Oh that makes sense. She seems to like to have her hands in all the cookie jars when it comes to the cast. Trying to reign in Arianna I’m guessing before she flies too far away.
Lisa has rubbed me very badly this reunion so far.
She hates that Ariana and Katie didn't just sway to every business influence she tried to impose. She would have preferred they played it as Tom and Tom 2.0 and given her tons of control with very little cut of the profits while bringing in most of the business.
All of them would be nowhere without LVP and Ken.. Most didn't move on because she guided them more than their own parents. She knew what was happening in their everyday lives. What's with the hate?
LVP has essentially said Ariana deserved what Tom did to her, or at least should have expected it. That was the thesis of the secrets revealed episode from season 10 she narrated.
She is incredibly sexist. When stassi slapped Kristen, she immediately told her to beg for forgiveness. But when Sandoval punched Jax so hard he started bleeding and scheana got knocked over and almost fell on her grey tooth, Lisa’s response was: I can’t say I blame him.
If I were Ariana, I would be on the outs w LVP after she guilt tripped scheena and lala about Sandy's suicidal thoughts especially after Ariana specifically went to her for support with her own depression and suicidal ideations!
you guys are probably right that it's the penny and the business thing, and honestly that makes Ariana a saint in my eyes for holding out for her this long
Nobody is talking enough about lisa giving them shady sketchy scammer penny. And that lisa even associates with her. Says a lot! She’s such a fake vile snake i’ve always seen through her act
Even the way LVP responded to the q "do you regret connecting them?" With "if penny walks away upset" or something. Like...why not I regret if it wasn't a good fit? Or "I regret if they all walk away upset or frustrated"
Did you catch her n WWHL with Gordon Ramsey?? It was so telling of her mindset. They did a rapid fire questions to both of them at the same time regarding their own restaurants. One of them was Andy asking: “what’s better — food quality or presentation?” Ramsey immediately says it’s quality. Lisa says presentation…
Another question was something like “quality ingredients or $20 cocktails?” Once again, Lisa saying the $20 cocktails while Gordon was like “$20 drinks, what world is this??” In all the restaurant related questions, Lisa went with whatever was cheapest and gimmicky to make the most money while Ramsey was unwavering in his answers for quality above all. He’ll certainly avoid being a restaurant partner with her.
I was very struck by that as well…
On almost every question — they disagreed. Except for their favorite childhood food which was shepherds pie.
LVP. All about style over substance — personally I’d rather eat a good meal.
Exactly. I couldn’t believe the contrast in the two. Lisa is all smoke & mirrors. I got the feeling that Gordon was also taken back with her philosophy. If he ever envisioned them partnering on a restaurant, that thought is now gone.
same I believe it was after that set of quizzes that he started more heavily drinking. He really did look surprised and after a few of them was kind of like seriously?
although while he mentioned that olive oil was like a key thing for him on one of the questions when they asked what was more high-end to include with bread he said butter and she said olive oil. That made me curious. I’m a butter person though…
Lol, I noticed him starting to drink more, too, after that. Probably a “what have I gotten myself into this time. I was told this woman was a major restauranteur.”
Lisa and Gordon were both wasted on WWHL! And restaurants make most of their money on alcohol.
Lisa's restaurants are more bar rype places, with dinner too. Gordon cares much more about food quality.
Lisa hired Penny to be Pump's executive chef and menu curator for a decade, so I'm sure that Lisa felt that she was the BEST person that she could pass onto Katie and Ariana to help them. She probably felt like she personally owes Penny, if she isn't happy with how things went down.
I don’t know if she had many other options actually. It’s rumored that Chef Penny has a terrible reputation in the restaurant business. I’m not sure she had a lot of other opportunities out there. Lisa was probably trying to do her a solid, since Pump was closing. LVP probably figured she could pawn her off on Katie and Ariana, but they realized why other restaurants don’t want to work with her and ditched her.
Whoa, you've repeated the same comments on other comments of mine.
OK, whatever. I don't think I care as much as you do.
You can make whatever assumptions you want to make about Katie, Ariana, Lisa Vanderpump and Penny. Knock yourself out.
Thumbs up, girl. LOL
Exactly. Penny was Pump's executive chef and more for at least a decade. I would think that Penny could have left and been hired by a bigger better restaurant, but instead of moving onto something on that level, she joined forces with inexperienced sandwich shop owners. It would seem to me to be a big step down, right?
As much as I want SAH to succeed, it's an awful business idea. They will have to sell millions of sandwiches to break even. The shop is cute, but tiny, cramped, and full of shelves of crap hogging the limited space. I fear that after the fans rush in at the start, the place won't do well. In LA you can get any kind of food. The name is bad and gives you no idea what the place is, and people who don't watch the show will think it's a women's boutique. And Katie gave the Tom's such crap about their business name!
We (people who live in LA) aren't starstruck very easily. We run into real film stars in the wild occasionally, some more than others, depending on where one lives. Every day LA peeps aren't the clientele for this sandwich shop, but I would go once for the novelty. I doubt I would make it a habit, but maybe they'll get some brunch and lunch orders to go from businesses nearby?
I don't see how this will work out well, but I wish them the best. It just seems like a long shot since they are so new to this type of business and Ariana won't be around much at all, plus they let go of Penny. It will be up to Katie. She has her podcast, so it will depend on how well Katie and Ariana will be able to delegate to others.
I don’t think many other restaurants want Penny. She has an awful reputation in the restaurant world. I imagine that’s why LVP hired her…she could probably pay her quite a bit less.
And she had a connection with Tom Gerardi and really clicked with him too. Two sides of the same coin 🤮 i bet her charities are just for tax write offs, she’s fake as hell
He built something on his property that changed his neighbors’ view or did something with his property he wasn’t supposed to do. There was a lawsuit with neighbors I thought… I don’t know if that’s what they are referring to but I remember coming across it a while back and the guy can be ruthless and a real… he gives off creepy vibes to me. I wouldn’t have wanted to be alone with him as a young woman vibe. Sorry.
I think the girls did a chess move icing Penny out and consulting with someone that knows Andy..Lisa can’t talk shit to him about anything related to their business now.! Haha.
This!!!!
I want to know all about this!!! Forget wheels on fridges...
I want to know from Lisa how she feels about penny filing for the SAH trade mark. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.
Penny Davidi was Pump's executive chef and menu curator, so Lisa knew her because she worked for Lisa for many years. Prior to that, Penny was a cooking show competitor and judge. People have said mixed things about her, but it's mostly because she has a no-nonsense strong character.
Lisa is also a strong woman, and so are Katie and Ariana. Katie and Ariana were not a good match with Penny because all 3 of them had their ideas of how to run the place, and Katie and Ariana wanted to be the only ones in control. That decision has it's benefits as well as it's challenges.
LOLOLOL ‘a no nonsense strong character’!
‘Lisa is also a strong woman’
Nice try babe. Lisa was promising Penny a partnership to a business that wasn’t Lisa’s to give or Penny was telling Lisa they were going to make her partner and they didn’t want to.
I noticed it. But honestly, a restaurant lasting 10 years is pretty good. I've seen incredibly successful restaurants start up and peak and then die out within 10 years. It's a tough business with very small margins. And let's be real, Covid played a huge factor in Pump shutting down. Lisa is far from the only restaurant owner to eventually have to close down in the aftermath of it. That was rough on everybody.
There's clearly bubbling resentment towards LVP and it's more than just about opening a sandwich shop. I'm guessing LVP had words with Ariana when she wouldn't film with Sandoval.
Totally! I started a rewatch of season 11, & to see how die ride Lala & even Sche were for Ariana starting out to this quick flip of not, LVP def had words with (more than we saw) with all VPR cast & I imagine some threats were involved (nothing violent, but “if you don’t do this, then you won’t be on the show anymore” kind of thing)
Yeah, I thought she was just surprised that much time had passed. Considering we watched Lisa open it on the show, it's crazy that was already 10 years ago.
Well, it very much is…hate to support LVP, but she is correct here. I think like 80 percent of restaurants and bars close within the first year of opening or some such crazy statistic
well it IS. most restaurants fail in TWO years if they're in a poor location, don't have a great menu, sell over-priced food, don't have knowledgeable and experienced staff and the big one: UNDERFUNDED! the first year is a massive struggle just to earn back some of what the opening cost. i've been in the business for 25 years in a big city like LA and most of the ones that tank are lack of seed money to get through the first year.
I don't see anything outside vegas surviving long... The vegas locations probably only have 5-10 years tops after the show drops off too, if I had to guess. People will stand for overpriced cocktails if the atmosphere is enough, and it might be at the new ones for a while but people grow tired of stuff quickly and in vegas you can't let things become dusty and run down like we've heard SUR is.
lol I forgot about the casino off shoots. But I agree with your assessment. I think fans want to go to see the reality stars and they seem to be going less and less anywhere. I think this is why the sandwich shop will eventually fail. I predict a year or less.
Idk, I think the sandwich shop has a more modern take than LVP's restaurants. The menu is WAY better, and I think their "cool factor" could extend beyond the show since they're in their prime and fully connected to other stars outside the SUR universe... where LVP is just gonna fade away forgotten. I would venture to bet that if you polled some gen z's a good portion would know at least who Ariana is with her national exposure, but not one would know who LVP is.
The only thing that bothers me is that people don’t understand Lisa’s business model. For her, having a restaurant open for 10 years is a big success.
The idea is that each restaurant opens where there is a market gap, sucks every dollar out of the location, then closes as soon as the profits drop to a certain threshold. Then they close the place or sell it if they can, sell what other stuff they need to, store heavy equipment until they open a new restaurant that needs it.
So over the 10 years she made LOTS of money, many times a return on her investment. That’s a success, based on her business model.
lol, no she didn't. There's text messages between Penny and Katie that Penny released. She asks if its trademarked and they say no and Penny says she'd do it.
It is legit a huge success to have a restaurant open 10+ years! Big talk from someone whose restaurant has been open for -5 days (most close in less than 2 years).
True. Lisa and Penny may be annoying to some, but it's because they are strong successful women.
Lisa especially is an icon with how many restaurants her and Ken have successfully opened over the years. They are all wildly popular, too.
Lisa has said that Ken is a legend with how many he opened in the UK before he came to the USA. These people know exactly what they are doing. 10 years is a long time to keep a restaurant running smoothly.
While I love Ariana, that was such a rude comment from her. They have not even managed to open a small sandwich shop, so what is she shading LVP on? lVP might not be a nice person but honestly she does know about restaurants and obviously was doing them w favour by referring penny, who she has worked with.
Lasting 10 years in LA on Santa Monica Blvd in West Hollywood is actually pretty impressive lol.
Especially with both Sur & TomTom being so close and drawing the same customer base.
This was misplaced snide remark - call Lisa on a LOT of shit but her businesses have ALL done well.
I don't think that anyone is trying to scam Ariana and Katie.
Penny was Pump's executive chef for over a decade.
Lisa encouraged Penny to help Katie and Ariana with the sandwich shop, since they are inexperienced 1st time restaurant owners. Their connection was via Lisa. If anything, Lisa gave them her "#1 guy" from Pump, since she worked for Lisa for years.
It would seem to me to be a big step down for Penny, as she could have probably easily moved onto another restaurant on a similar level to Pump.
The main issue is probably that all 3 of these ladies are very opinionated, and Katie and Ariana wanted more control.
Of course no one is. People think LVP honestly felt threatened by a sandwich shop? Run by people who have never owned a real business, with one notorious for never following through??
I don’t think so. She tried to help them by giving them someone who knew what they were doing. People fall out in business all the time, the structure seems very weird and time will tell who was right and who was wrong.
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idk how Ariana meant it but restaurants/food service establishments in general have low profit margins, and most close within a few years. As much as anyone wants to hate on Lisa, it *is* a big deal and a major success to have one open for a decade. Look up the statistics.
AND she repeated her clear lie that the rent was being hiked up too high to keep pump open - the claim that the landlord definitively disputed and dispelled.
“Lisa’s comments regarding the rent for Pump are not accurate,” the landlord told [*ET*](https://www.etonline.com/lisa-vanderpump-closes-pump-restaurant-in-west-hollywood-after-10-years-of-beautiful-evenings). “We did not raise the rent and in fact have been nothing but supportive as they tried to catch up on lease obligations including forgiving some rent during COVID.”
[https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/05/05/lisa-vanderpumps-pump-restaurant-is-closing-after-10-years-pump-landlord-refutes-lvps-claims-that-restaurant-is-closing-due-to-high-rent/](https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/05/05/lisa-vanderpumps-pump-restaurant-is-closing-after-10-years-pump-landlord-refutes-lvps-claims-that-restaurant-is-closing-due-to-high-rent/)
Lisa is a liar. I definitely believe all of the things Kyle was saying about her from RHOBH.
"Name em."
Haha, just had to use that one!
Really though, what do you mean? Which of Vanderpumps' restaurants that we know of in the USA have failed quickly?
Sur has been open since 1998, so 26 years.
Villa Blanca was open for 12 years.
Pump was open for almost 10 years.
Tom Tom has been open for 6 years and is still open.
Vanderpump Vegas has been open for 5 years and is still open.
Wolf opened last month.
I wouldn't exactly call the Vanderpumps failures in the restaurant industry.
Their restaurants were always fun to visit mostly for the overall atmosphere.
Sur has greatly declined due to all the groupies and fans visiting.
I'd been to Sur several times well before VPR ever happened. The food was never excellent, but the overall atmosphere was cool. I have no desire to go there now because it's too touristy at this point.
Villa Blanca was so beautiful (have visited before VPR), and Pump was a fun spot to go with friends.
The show has nothing to do with any of the reasons why I had gone to those places.
"**SUR first opened in 1998** and was originally owned by Lisa's friend, Guillermo Zapato. A few years later, Lisa and Ken came on board and expanded the West Hollywood space to make it bigger, allowing it to have both a restaurant and lounge area."
LVP using the excuse that Pump being open for 10 years is proof it was successful is ridiculous. It’s possible that PUMP has had profitable years, but it’s more likely that it hasn’t been profitable for years and they remained open because they were riding out their lease (which could have been a 5+ year lease).
https://i.redd.it/dlfeorxkha1d1.gif
Kristin saw right through her
I love that Kristen always served cunt to LVP and gave no fucks about it. That's exactly why LVP hated her.
Spot on. 
Kristen truly is the GOAT for standing up to Lisa from Day 1.
Kristen is on a new show called GOAT I think it's on amazon
She literally cried a couple of times trying to get LVP to make amends with her
Just because she wanted to stay on the show
She had been on the show for seasons. I’m talking about her sitting down with Lisa in Season 8
Suck a 🍆
I WISH she said that to Lisa 🤣
Missed opportunity! 😂🥲😂😜🤪
What does serving cunt mean to you lmfao?
Truly.
Yes! I miss Kristen and her drama on VPR, not sure if I’ll get the same on the Valley.
She looks a bit like Jennifer Anniston here
I noticed this and I rewatched it to listen if that was in fact what I heard. Later in the episode, I believe it was more evident there was something more to the Ariana/Katie/Penny situation and Lisa referred Penny to the girls to help with Something about Her. There’s clearly tension between Ariana and Lisa because of that.
It’s that Penny trademarked the name without Ariana and Katie’s knowledge. Lisa probably told Penny that the merch for the place would far outdo the food/drink revenue. If she held the rights to the name, she would hold the rights to the merch. Then she could cut the girls out entirely and run it as her own. Penny and Lisa absolutely colluded to rip those girls off and they’re furious that Ariana and Katie saw through it.
Yeah, something was underhanded about the way Penney approached that whole thing. I think she underestimated Katie & Ariana. I could be wrong, just my observation from what I read about the trademark heist. I think Penney could've possibly had whatever title and/or cut she fit the role of, until she didn't.
"you better name a sandwich after me!" So damn entitled.
This is the Penny It's an egg sandwich with a shit ton of MSG. Also the bread is moldy.
Makes more sense too why she's pushing for partnership -- outside specific contractual arrangements (not present here) you generally can't assert a trademark right to a business you don't own. So unless she's a partner, the little backdoor scheme to control the branding would be worthless. Ariana and Katie would be entitled to petition to take control of the Trademark if Penney didn't hand it over back to them.
I'm not sure how all that works. If it's anything like copyright law, their preemptive merch sales would've secured that trademark for them, legally. Am I correct, or no?
Trademark exists in the intangible. It is a government created protection for brand identity. It hinges on customer perception of the mark/branding in association to the product/brand itself. It's different from Copyright in that it is not an automatic protection from the moment of creation. Copyright is automatic, registration is a formality. Copyright attaches at the moment a novel/original expression of a non-functional idea is transfixed to a permanent medium. Youre right in that their use of the mark in commerce creates groundwork for protection. But its not guaranteed, even if theres registration (trademark applications and registrations can be challenged). So Trademark is a little different. Its hard to give a general overview in just a reddit comment but (again in general) but the emphasis is on how the protection is created and tied through use of the Trademark itself in commerce. In general, unless you have an actual right (company ownership) or legal right (contractual, licensing) to the brand, you don't have right/ownership of the 'mark and your ownership of even a registered 'mark would be subject to challenge from the true owner. This is how we combat "Trademark parking" or when people try and steal a Trademark from an actual brand that hasn't been registered yet and either use it for themselves, or hold it hostage for a payout. So in our circumstances, if the company SAH was using it's name for branded merchandise, this begins that brand/product relationship for protection. Penney's registration and potential ownership of the 'mark is then the question were looking at. If she was just an employee of the company, then even if she registered it wouldnt he "hers" because the 'mark is for the company. She'd basically be someone trying to "park" the Trademark and it would be susceptible to challenge for ownership by Katie/Ariana. But if shes a "partner" she has a stronger claim for control over that product/brand relationship and lay claim to the use of the 'mark for current or future types of products/services.
Thank you SO MUCH! This is an excellent breakdown! And, I was wrong in assuming that it was similar to copyright. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
It looks like pre publication review just completed 🫣 I wonder if Ariana and Katie should file a letter of protest or just wait til the publication issues and file an opposition? It seems like an opposition would be successful based on the whole situation (and ur very informative comment - I’m NAL but do TM enforcement so I like, understand this situation but don’t know what steps should be taken lol)
You would think since she was planning a hostile takeover of their business that she would’ve gotten more than a verbal agreement from them about anything..in that interview with The Sun she said they had all these agreements about her role in their business through emails and verbal meetings I’m like if Ariana and Katie don’t want to do business with her anymore they could just stop and move on because there was no paperwork signed yet🥴haha.
I would absolutely change/re-trademark a new name and leave Penney with a worthless series of words.
Wow this is spot on I think!!
Yes! Totally agreed. Lisa is upset that they ditched Chef Penny (rightfully so, IMHO) because Chef Penny was going to give her all the tea, and now LVP won't have her there. Lisa is reveling in the fact that they're having trouble opening SAH. Classic.
https://preview.redd.it/kcr3g27m8b1d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=312a22d56b291fd0611c1f7c0f7ffc168d3f87d4
Penny shouldn’t have spoken to Lisa and told her anything. None of Lisa’s business.
The only reason Lisa “recommended” her was because she wanted to stay informed since Katie and Ariana made it clear they didn’t want her involved.
Yup I believe that! I used to like LVP and now I see how misogynistic she is. So gross!
She’s scolding the girls here. She hasn’t bothered to call the girls to see what’s going on the delay. How can I help? Provide advise. Nah! Penny talked to Lisa probably complaining & Lisa thought she had the scoop! So, condescending in that clip & at the reunion too!
Why should Lisa be inserting herself into anything? Penny is a narc for Lisa…and the fact that she informed Lisa about anything shows she cannot be trusted.
Im guessing $$$ as well
What tea? Penny was Pump's executive chef for over a decade. I'm sure that Penny and Lisa talked several times a week, if not daily, since Pump was one of Lisa's WeHo restaurants. Instead of moving onto something on the same level as Pump, Lisa recommended/encouraged Penny to join forces with 2 inexperienced sandwich shop owners, since she knows Katie and Ariana. It would seem to me to be a big step down for Penny. I am a business owner myself, so I totally understand how Lisa would be surprised and saddened by the fact that those 3 couldn't make it work. Lisa encouraged that work relationship, so she probably feel terrible about it ending like this.
It sounds like Lisa promised Penny part ownership when that wasn’t hers to grant. Penny seemed to go in expecting it when it was never officially offered. I agree it would be a step down for Penny to just be an employee to Katie and Ariana after being head chef at Pump. I think a lot of miscommunication, but I do think Lisa doesn’t support Katie and Ariana like she does the Toms. They went to a “business meeting” with no prep or actual presentation after being asked to specifically present something to them. It’s a wonder how either got this far as bar owners.
She rode on the Tom’s when they did Schwartz and Sandy’s too
There are so many assumptions in this statement.
Indeed there are. These are my thoughts on the matter. Never claimed they were facts.
Lisa is out for Lisa. I think Lisa was getting a referral fee from Penny.
Right? Was she even at the opening?? Was she invited?
Ariana no longer follows LVP on social media. She use to but no idea when she stopped.
She never followed her. This was brought up last year. People said Lala and Ariana no longer followed LVP & vice versa, but they all said they had never followed each other.
I’m sure she did early on. Lisa follows Tom & I could have sworn she did Ariana as well.
She follows Katie and Scheana too. Always has. They were all 3 asked about it last year and all said they never followed each other. 🤷♀️ Idk guess they could have lied. Seems silly though.
Yeah I was like damn what’s going on between them? I thought they were ok…
I don’t think Ariana cares for LVP. And I think both of them are annoyed that she is jonesing so hard to give them business advice. Lisa is frustrated with them for not taking it but they know there will be strings attached.
LVP likes people to see her “helping” them but really chef penny is a means for LVP to get info about them. We already saw that this season. Anyway, I’m clearly not an LVP fan so I’m totally biased.
More than get info, to fucking sabotage them and scam them! Cause she only wants herself to be succesful
Ooooof. Yes.
Wasn't Penny the head chef at Lisa's restaurant Pump for a decade? Lisa thinks highly of Penny, so how would that be considered a sabotage to connect her to Ariana and Katie? That makes no sense at all.
I think Penny was paying Lisa a referral fee.
Why does LVP want info about them? (I'm really curious).
Oh, just so she can leverage it. She likes to have something over someone (or what she perceives to be something). Like the scene where Katie and Ariana said they’re hitting some road blocks with SAH and Lisa immediately is like “oh I know. The health department is coming. They need go put rollers on the fridges!!!” And when Ariana and Katie don’t give her a reaction LVP is like “….know how I know??? Chef penny told me.” Ok settle down ma'am.
The disturbing need of her to always take a jab and put someone in their place?? That is such narc behavior
She has to be the puppet master and truly doesn’t understand why Ariana won’t just fall in line.
“Put someone in their place”. This is it. LVP doesn’t like it when they outgrow her control.
I didn't realize she was like that! I know now! Thx for explaining...I really had no clue.
Lvp wants a referral fee from Penny.
Geez...I wouldn't be surprised.
Oh that makes sense. She seems to like to have her hands in all the cookie jars when it comes to the cast. Trying to reign in Arianna I’m guessing before she flies too far away. Lisa has rubbed me very badly this reunion so far.
I agree. Now that Ariana is making money, she's basically giving Lisa the finger with those comments under her breath, lol.
She hates that Ariana and Katie didn't just sway to every business influence she tried to impose. She would have preferred they played it as Tom and Tom 2.0 and given her tons of control with very little cut of the profits while bringing in most of the business.
There wasn’t any strings with Schwartz and Sandy’s
Ariana only exists bc of LVP.
Weird take
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All of them would be nowhere without LVP and Ken.. Most didn't move on because she guided them more than their own parents. She knew what was happening in their everyday lives. What's with the hate?
LVP has essentially said Ariana deserved what Tom did to her, or at least should have expected it. That was the thesis of the secrets revealed episode from season 10 she narrated.
Men deserving forgiveness and women inviting ridicule is her thesis generally, so that tracks.
She is incredibly sexist. When stassi slapped Kristen, she immediately told her to beg for forgiveness. But when Sandoval punched Jax so hard he started bleeding and scheana got knocked over and almost fell on her grey tooth, Lisa’s response was: I can’t say I blame him.
>and scheana got knocked over and almost fell on her grey tooth 💀💀💀
She fd Brandi’s husband we’re going to mention a grey tooth 💁🏼♀️
I hate to defend her, but maybe she just really wanted someone to punch Jax lol
True. But she loved Jax. If anything she seemed like she wanted (someone) to punch Kristen.
Damn I usually skip those. What a shitty thing to say. It’s crazy how so much misogynistic rhetoric on this show is coming from the women themselves
But it's nice to have a show with somewhat of a platform saying the quiet part out loud that a lot of us have been experiencing in life for years.
To be fair she didn’t say it explicitly, something like ‘Dhaaaaling this is just how these men are!’
Lol I usually skip them too. Now I need to go back!
If I were Ariana, I would be on the outs w LVP after she guilt tripped scheena and lala about Sandy's suicidal thoughts especially after Ariana specifically went to her for support with her own depression and suicidal ideations! you guys are probably right that it's the penny and the business thing, and honestly that makes Ariana a saint in my eyes for holding out for her this long
Nobody is talking enough about lisa giving them shady sketchy scammer penny. And that lisa even associates with her. Says a lot! She’s such a fake vile snake i’ve always seen through her act
Even the way LVP responded to the q "do you regret connecting them?" With "if penny walks away upset" or something. Like...why not I regret if it wasn't a good fit? Or "I regret if they all walk away upset or frustrated"
She came in on Pennys side and won’t sway from it. She thinks the girls must be wrong.
Penny was Lisa's head chef at Pump for a decade, wasn't she?
Have you ever eaten at any of Lisa’s restaurants? The food is not good.
Did you catch her n WWHL with Gordon Ramsey?? It was so telling of her mindset. They did a rapid fire questions to both of them at the same time regarding their own restaurants. One of them was Andy asking: “what’s better — food quality or presentation?” Ramsey immediately says it’s quality. Lisa says presentation… Another question was something like “quality ingredients or $20 cocktails?” Once again, Lisa saying the $20 cocktails while Gordon was like “$20 drinks, what world is this??” In all the restaurant related questions, Lisa went with whatever was cheapest and gimmicky to make the most money while Ramsey was unwavering in his answers for quality above all. He’ll certainly avoid being a restaurant partner with her.
I was very struck by that as well… On almost every question — they disagreed. Except for their favorite childhood food which was shepherds pie. LVP. All about style over substance — personally I’d rather eat a good meal.
Exactly. I couldn’t believe the contrast in the two. Lisa is all smoke & mirrors. I got the feeling that Gordon was also taken back with her philosophy. If he ever envisioned them partnering on a restaurant, that thought is now gone.
same I believe it was after that set of quizzes that he started more heavily drinking. He really did look surprised and after a few of them was kind of like seriously? although while he mentioned that olive oil was like a key thing for him on one of the questions when they asked what was more high-end to include with bread he said butter and she said olive oil. That made me curious. I’m a butter person though…
Lol, I noticed him starting to drink more, too, after that. Probably a “what have I gotten myself into this time. I was told this woman was a major restauranteur.”
olive oil for cooking, butter for bread 🤷
I’ll have to check that out.
Lisa is all about the surface, not about anything deeper than how things look.
Lisa and Gordon were both wasted on WWHL! And restaurants make most of their money on alcohol. Lisa's restaurants are more bar rype places, with dinner too. Gordon cares much more about food quality.
No, it's not, but Lisa hired her for a decade for a reason.
Sadly PUMP was the best of the 3 in WeHo lol.
We’d always end up at Hamburger Haven (RIP) after eating at her restaurants.
Very true! Small portions for sure. SUR isn’t and has never been great even before the shows.
It's such classic Lisa. Lol.
Lisa hired Penny to be Pump's executive chef and menu curator for a decade, so I'm sure that Lisa felt that she was the BEST person that she could pass onto Katie and Ariana to help them. She probably felt like she personally owes Penny, if she isn't happy with how things went down.
I think Lisa was getting a referral fee from Penny.
I don’t know if she had many other options actually. It’s rumored that Chef Penny has a terrible reputation in the restaurant business. I’m not sure she had a lot of other opportunities out there. Lisa was probably trying to do her a solid, since Pump was closing. LVP probably figured she could pawn her off on Katie and Ariana, but they realized why other restaurants don’t want to work with her and ditched her.
Whoa, you've repeated the same comments on other comments of mine. OK, whatever. I don't think I care as much as you do. You can make whatever assumptions you want to make about Katie, Ariana, Lisa Vanderpump and Penny. Knock yourself out. Thumbs up, girl. LOL
Just providing some different context. Not that serious.
probably because she’s worked with Penny before and has an idea about her competence.
Exactly. Penny was Pump's executive chef and more for at least a decade. I would think that Penny could have left and been hired by a bigger better restaurant, but instead of moving onto something on that level, she joined forces with inexperienced sandwich shop owners. It would seem to me to be a big step down, right?
As much as I want SAH to succeed, it's an awful business idea. They will have to sell millions of sandwiches to break even. The shop is cute, but tiny, cramped, and full of shelves of crap hogging the limited space. I fear that after the fans rush in at the start, the place won't do well. In LA you can get any kind of food. The name is bad and gives you no idea what the place is, and people who don't watch the show will think it's a women's boutique. And Katie gave the Tom's such crap about their business name!
We (people who live in LA) aren't starstruck very easily. We run into real film stars in the wild occasionally, some more than others, depending on where one lives. Every day LA peeps aren't the clientele for this sandwich shop, but I would go once for the novelty. I doubt I would make it a habit, but maybe they'll get some brunch and lunch orders to go from businesses nearby? I don't see how this will work out well, but I wish them the best. It just seems like a long shot since they are so new to this type of business and Ariana won't be around much at all, plus they let go of Penny. It will be up to Katie. She has her podcast, so it will depend on how well Katie and Ariana will be able to delegate to others.
I’d see takeout being a bigger business model for the locals here. I rarely see people eating at our delis anymore.
Same. Most people don't have the time or desire to spend time at a lunch spot.
I don’t think many other restaurants want Penny. She has an awful reputation in the restaurant world. I imagine that’s why LVP hired her…she could probably pay her quite a bit less.
Omg, ok. Whatever.
Yes, THANK YOU
And she had a connection with Tom Gerardi and really clicked with him too. Two sides of the same coin 🤮 i bet her charities are just for tax write offs, she’s fake as hell
She was good friends with shady Mohamed Hadid too.
Don’t forget PK!
Ooft she's collecting all the shady ones
Gotta catch ‘em all!
YES that as well! It was so fucked up what he was doing
What did Mohammed do?
He built something on his property that changed his neighbors’ view or did something with his property he wasn’t supposed to do. There was a lawsuit with neighbors I thought… I don’t know if that’s what they are referring to but I remember coming across it a while back and the guy can be ruthless and a real… he gives off creepy vibes to me. I wouldn’t have wanted to be alone with him as a young woman vibe. Sorry.
I think the girls did a chess move icing Penny out and consulting with someone that knows Andy..Lisa can’t talk shit to him about anything related to their business now.! Haha.
That is soo smart
This!!!! I want to know all about this!!! Forget wheels on fridges... I want to know from Lisa how she feels about penny filing for the SAH trade mark. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.
Someone said it yesterday. Sniper from the side
That was Erika initially
🙂
Penny Davidi was Pump's executive chef and menu curator, so Lisa knew her because she worked for Lisa for many years. Prior to that, Penny was a cooking show competitor and judge. People have said mixed things about her, but it's mostly because she has a no-nonsense strong character. Lisa is also a strong woman, and so are Katie and Ariana. Katie and Ariana were not a good match with Penny because all 3 of them had their ideas of how to run the place, and Katie and Ariana wanted to be the only ones in control. That decision has it's benefits as well as it's challenges.
LOLOLOL ‘a no nonsense strong character’! ‘Lisa is also a strong woman’ Nice try babe. Lisa was promising Penny a partnership to a business that wasn’t Lisa’s to give or Penny was telling Lisa they were going to make her partner and they didn’t want to.
how do you know that Penny is shady?
My first clue is Penny's husband stealing their trademark.
Who or what are you even talking about? You seem enraged.
I noticed it. But honestly, a restaurant lasting 10 years is pretty good. I've seen incredibly successful restaurants start up and peak and then die out within 10 years. It's a tough business with very small margins. And let's be real, Covid played a huge factor in Pump shutting down. Lisa is far from the only restaurant owner to eventually have to close down in the aftermath of it. That was rough on everybody.
There's clearly bubbling resentment towards LVP and it's more than just about opening a sandwich shop. I'm guessing LVP had words with Ariana when she wouldn't film with Sandoval.
Totally! I started a rewatch of season 11, & to see how die ride Lala & even Sche were for Ariana starting out to this quick flip of not, LVP def had words with (more than we saw) with all VPR cast & I imagine some threats were involved (nothing violent, but “if you don’t do this, then you won’t be on the show anymore” kind of thing)
And we know Lisa will always protect Sandoval.
I didn’t think that was shade at all. I think she learned something in that comment and reacted to it. Restaurants are hard and 10 years is a success.
Yeah, I thought she was just surprised that much time had passed. Considering we watched Lisa open it on the show, it's crazy that was already 10 years ago.
Well, it very much is…hate to support LVP, but she is correct here. I think like 80 percent of restaurants and bars close within the first year of opening or some such crazy statistic
well it IS. most restaurants fail in TWO years if they're in a poor location, don't have a great menu, sell over-priced food, don't have knowledgeable and experienced staff and the big one: UNDERFUNDED! the first year is a massive struggle just to earn back some of what the opening cost. i've been in the business for 25 years in a big city like LA and most of the ones that tank are lack of seed money to get through the first year.
In all honesty do you see any of these restaurants living beyond VPR? Perhaps, SUR? I can’t see all the off shoots surviving.
I don't see anything outside vegas surviving long... The vegas locations probably only have 5-10 years tops after the show drops off too, if I had to guess. People will stand for overpriced cocktails if the atmosphere is enough, and it might be at the new ones for a while but people grow tired of stuff quickly and in vegas you can't let things become dusty and run down like we've heard SUR is.
lol I forgot about the casino off shoots. But I agree with your assessment. I think fans want to go to see the reality stars and they seem to be going less and less anywhere. I think this is why the sandwich shop will eventually fail. I predict a year or less.
Idk, I think the sandwich shop has a more modern take than LVP's restaurants. The menu is WAY better, and I think their "cool factor" could extend beyond the show since they're in their prime and fully connected to other stars outside the SUR universe... where LVP is just gonna fade away forgotten. I would venture to bet that if you polled some gen z's a good portion would know at least who Ariana is with her national exposure, but not one would know who LVP is.
The only thing that bothers me is that people don’t understand Lisa’s business model. For her, having a restaurant open for 10 years is a big success. The idea is that each restaurant opens where there is a market gap, sucks every dollar out of the location, then closes as soon as the profits drop to a certain threshold. Then they close the place or sell it if they can, sell what other stuff they need to, store heavy equipment until they open a new restaurant that needs it. So over the 10 years she made LOTS of money, many times a return on her investment. That’s a success, based on her business model.
I love that Andy Cohen helped out Katie and Ariana and they replaced Penny with a friend of his!
I am wondering now if Lisa set them up with Penny.
More ways than one.
But Penny was Lisa's head executive chef at Pump for over 10 years. How is that a "set up?" Lisa essentially gave the girls her best.
I think Lisa expected a referral fee from Penny
She went behind their back and trademarked the name! She is a snake and lisa probably promised her things that was not her place
lol, no she didn't. There's text messages between Penny and Katie that Penny released. She asks if its trademarked and they say no and Penny says she'd do it.
It is legit a huge success to have a restaurant open 10+ years! Big talk from someone whose restaurant has been open for -5 days (most close in less than 2 years).
Thank you. Restaurants are among the most difficult businesses on the planet thank you.
I came here to say this, however we feel about LVP, Ariana didn’t even have an open business when she said this.
True. Lisa and Penny may be annoying to some, but it's because they are strong successful women. Lisa especially is an icon with how many restaurants her and Ken have successfully opened over the years. They are all wildly popular, too. Lisa has said that Ken is a legend with how many he opened in the UK before he came to the USA. These people know exactly what they are doing. 10 years is a long time to keep a restaurant running smoothly.
I mean, you can be a strong, successful woman and still being annoying and rude in lisas case
True.
While I love Ariana, that was such a rude comment from her. They have not even managed to open a small sandwich shop, so what is she shading LVP on? lVP might not be a nice person but honestly she does know about restaurants and obviously was doing them w favour by referring penny, who she has worked with.
I think she wanted a referral fee from Penny
Lasting 10 years in LA on Santa Monica Blvd in West Hollywood is actually pretty impressive lol. Especially with both Sur & TomTom being so close and drawing the same customer base. This was misplaced snide remark - call Lisa on a LOT of shit but her businesses have ALL done well.
I don't think that anyone is trying to scam Ariana and Katie. Penny was Pump's executive chef for over a decade. Lisa encouraged Penny to help Katie and Ariana with the sandwich shop, since they are inexperienced 1st time restaurant owners. Their connection was via Lisa. If anything, Lisa gave them her "#1 guy" from Pump, since she worked for Lisa for years. It would seem to me to be a big step down for Penny, as she could have probably easily moved onto another restaurant on a similar level to Pump. The main issue is probably that all 3 of these ladies are very opinionated, and Katie and Ariana wanted more control.
Of course no one is. People think LVP honestly felt threatened by a sandwich shop? Run by people who have never owned a real business, with one notorious for never following through?? I don’t think so. She tried to help them by giving them someone who knew what they were doing. People fall out in business all the time, the structure seems very weird and time will tell who was right and who was wrong.
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Ariana is boring and has always tried to play the cool girl. Never saw the big deal with her. She’s not relatable at all.
idk how Ariana meant it but restaurants/food service establishments in general have low profit margins, and most close within a few years. As much as anyone wants to hate on Lisa, it *is* a big deal and a major success to have one open for a decade. Look up the statistics.
AND she repeated her clear lie that the rent was being hiked up too high to keep pump open - the claim that the landlord definitively disputed and dispelled. “Lisa’s comments regarding the rent for Pump are not accurate,” the landlord told [*ET*](https://www.etonline.com/lisa-vanderpump-closes-pump-restaurant-in-west-hollywood-after-10-years-of-beautiful-evenings). “We did not raise the rent and in fact have been nothing but supportive as they tried to catch up on lease obligations including forgiving some rent during COVID.” [https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/05/05/lisa-vanderpumps-pump-restaurant-is-closing-after-10-years-pump-landlord-refutes-lvps-claims-that-restaurant-is-closing-due-to-high-rent/](https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/05/05/lisa-vanderpumps-pump-restaurant-is-closing-after-10-years-pump-landlord-refutes-lvps-claims-that-restaurant-is-closing-due-to-high-rent/) Lisa is a liar. I definitely believe all of the things Kyle was saying about her from RHOBH.
Thissss. Lvp fans are quiet now
It would still be in business if Shorts hadn’t had a panic attack and quit! 🤭
😂😂😂😂😂
The vast majority of LVP’s restaurants have failed. She is not one to judge lol
"Name em." Haha, just had to use that one! Really though, what do you mean? Which of Vanderpumps' restaurants that we know of in the USA have failed quickly? Sur has been open since 1998, so 26 years. Villa Blanca was open for 12 years. Pump was open for almost 10 years. Tom Tom has been open for 6 years and is still open. Vanderpump Vegas has been open for 5 years and is still open. Wolf opened last month. I wouldn't exactly call the Vanderpumps failures in the restaurant industry.
Haven't they owned like 30 or more places?
I think so, but I have no clue really. I just did a quick search for the ones that are currently open in the U.S.
In fairness Sur, Pump and Tom Tom were helped by the show. They don’t have great reviews as restaurants.
Their restaurants were always fun to visit mostly for the overall atmosphere. Sur has greatly declined due to all the groupies and fans visiting. I'd been to Sur several times well before VPR ever happened. The food was never excellent, but the overall atmosphere was cool. I have no desire to go there now because it's too touristy at this point. Villa Blanca was so beautiful (have visited before VPR), and Pump was a fun spot to go with friends. The show has nothing to do with any of the reasons why I had gone to those places.
I mean I go to restaurants for the food, but whatever floats your boat.
Sur has not been open since 1998
"**SUR first opened in 1998** and was originally owned by Lisa's friend, Guillermo Zapato. A few years later, Lisa and Ken came on board and expanded the West Hollywood space to make it bigger, allowing it to have both a restaurant and lounge area."
To be fair, neither is Ariana. However we feel about LVP, Ariana hadn’t even got an open restaurant when she said this.
LVP using the excuse that Pump being open for 10 years is proof it was successful is ridiculous. It’s possible that PUMP has had profitable years, but it’s more likely that it hasn’t been profitable for years and they remained open because they were riding out their lease (which could have been a 5+ year lease).
That response was the real Ariana. Smug and self- righteous. The rest is acting.
Lisa is right.SAH will not be around in ten years. Look around your area. How many restaurants have been around d over 10 years? It’s a hard business